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Author
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Topic: Be Very Careful
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Caretaker
Advanced Member
Member # 36
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posted
Amen Sister Linda!!!!!!!!!!
The context is the restoration of those separated from God. As Brother Walt has said, Context!!
Well written and well posted Sis. God bless you.
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A Servant of Christ,
Drew
1 Tim. 3:
16: And without controversy great is the mystery of godliness: God was manifest in the flesh..
Posts: 3978 | From: Council Grove, KS USA | Registered: Jun 2002
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SoftTouch
Advanced Member
Member # 2316
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posted
Sister Linda, That was an Awsome Post (the 'long' one that is ![[Wink]](wink.gif) ![[Kiss]](graemlins/Kiss.gif) ) Thank you for expounding on those points! I'm gonna print that one out and read it over again!
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Psalm 119:104Through thy precepts I get understanding: therefore I hate every false way. 105Thy word is a lamp unto my feet, and a light unto my path.
Posts: 3465 | Registered: Nov 2003
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WildB
Moderator
Member # 2917
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posted
quote:
Originally posted by helpforhomeschoolers:
What an edifying comment WildB. Absolutely full of substance! Thank you. I thought your comments in this thread were right on target. I was surprised and impressed with what you had written. This last one is much more what I am accustomed to seeing from you. Did someone hijack your computer the other day and post in your stead? ![[Razz]](tongue.gif)
I am sorry~ forgive me.
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That is all.....
Posts: 8775 | From: USA, MICHIGAN | Registered: Mar 2004
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helpforhomeschoolers
Advanced Member
Member # 15
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posted
What an edifying comment WildB. Absolutely full of substance! Thank you. I thought your comments in this thread were right on target. I was surprised and impressed with what you had written. This last one is much more what I am accustomed to seeing from you. Did someone hijack your computer the other day and post in your stead?
Posts: 4684 | From: Southern Black Hills of South Dakota | Registered: Jun 2002
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WildB
Moderator
Member # 2917
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posted
quote:
Originally posted by helpforhomeschoolers:
The things that are missed in this thread are amazing!!!!!!
Drew has tried to show this.
Isaiah 53:5 But he was wounded for our transgressions, he was bruised for our iniquities: the chastisement of our peace was upon him; and with his stripes we are healed.
This verse is key to the very heresy that this thread was opened with. Look at what is said here in context!!!
He was wounded for OUR transgressions - Who is our in this CONTEXT?
The HEBREWS. Isaiah was written to the Hebrews; before the church. I am not saying that it does not apply to the church. Do not misunderstand. It does and Peter confirms this in the NT. But hear me out please...
He was killed for their transgressions? NO! He was wounded and HIS blood was shed in the wounding folks.
He was bruised... for OUR Iniquity. Our = The people to whom Isaiah prophesied. BRUISED for iniquity.
The chastisement (PUNISHMENT)of OUR (THE HEBREWS)peace (SHALOM _ COMPLETENESS_ WHOLENESS)was upon him.
and....
WITH his stripes we are healed.
WITH HIS STRIPES WE (THE HEBREWS) are 07495 apr rapha’ raw-faw’ or hpr raphah raw-faw’
Healed - in the PASSIVE, PERFECT Mood. This means it is done to the object of the verb (the Hebrews) and it is complete now. A done deal.
First, you have to know that before Christ was risen and the Gospel taken to the Gentiles, this could not apply to you the church because you were not called to God and relationship with HIM.
This is when ALL MEN were called to the Cross and to reconcilliation...
John 12:32 And I, if I be lifted up from the earth, will draw all men unto me.
This is the making of Christ to be sin that Isaiah is prophesying. This whole chapter 53 is the picture of that .... the making of Christ to be sin. We see that they (the Hebrews thought he was smitten of God) (but they find that this is no the case that it was their sin being laid upon his flesh that with the shedding of his blood before he ever made it to the cross, God was healing them.....making them whole, reconciling them to HIMself.
Salvation is a multifaceted thing. They had a relationship that was unique to them. Out of the whole of the people of the earth they were called to be HIS People and HE their God; there was a covenant and it was broken... They were broken in this life and out of right relationship with their GOD.
And before he gave HIS life; HE gave HIS blood and HIS body BROKEN FOR YOU... REMEMBER THOSE WORDS?
THIS IS MY BODY BROKEN FOR YOU... this is in Isaiah the breaking of HIS BODY AND BY THAT they were healed. Reconciled.
While HE still yet was alive, they were reconciled.
THEN..THEN THEN... When HE Had done that...He gave even more. HIS life.
Do you not understand that the reason we need a savior is because we only have one life and it is not enough?
The sin of Adam born in me is enough to take my life. So I give it when I die.
Then what is there to pay for my own sins for which the price is death?
Christ gave his body to be broken to pay for their iniquity, the punishment of their peace (incompleteness, transgressions - THEIR SINS.
Then HE gave his life for the sin of ADAM in all of us.
There are 2 sacrifices here. One in HIS beating and cursing and physical punishment and shedding of sinless blood and the second HIS life for to take away the sin of the WHOLE world not just the justified. The sin of Adam in even the heathen that will never be saved was paid for by the life of Jesus. This is HOW the heathen can justly die for his OWN sins.
BEHOLD THE LAMB OF GOD THAT TAKE AWAY THE SIN OF THE WORLD.
; and with his stripes we are healed.
WITH the stripes... the breaking of the BODY, WE (the people of God) are made whole to be be the people of God.
The Hebrew language does not have a different word for healing of the physical body and healing of the spiritual body.
Here you see Rapha used for physical healing:
Leviticus 13:18 The flesh also, in which, even in the skin thereof, was a boil, and is healed <07495>,
Here it is used to repair a broken altar:
1 Kings 18:30 And Elijah said unto all the people, Come near unto me. And all the people came near unto him. And he repaired <07495> the altar of the LORD that was broken down.
Here it is used to speak of reconciliation:
Isaiah 6:10 Make the heart of this people fat, and make their ears heavy, and shut their eyes; lest they see with their eyes, and hear with their ears, and understand with their heart, and convert, and be healed <07495>.
The word means to make un broken - Christ bore upon HIS body the sins of the people that they might be restored to God as HIS people.
Then HE died - that they might live eternal life.
It is SOOOOO important to understand that all these things happened before Christ was laid in the TOMB. IT was a DONE DEAL. HE WAS SUFFICIENT. Nothing more was needed of HIM; HIS sacrifice was accepted:
This is shown here:
Isaiah 53:10 ¶ Yet it pleased the LORD to bruise him; he hath put him to grief: when thou shalt make his soul an offering for sin, he shall see his seed, he shall prolong his days, and the pleasure of the LORD shall prosper in his hand.
11 He shall see of the travail of his soul, and shall be satisfied: by his knowledge shall my righteous servant justify many; for he shall bear their iniquities.
This is not soul as some esoteric thing... this is his life...a living soul. Do you see that this says that God shall see the travail of his life - the punishment he suffered.... and BY HIS (God's knowledge) (Of Christ's innocence) the RIGHTEOUS Servant JESUS shall JUSTIFY MANY. Justifiy.... not all are justified. This is speaking to the acceptance of the breaking of the BODY of Jesus for the sins of Israel to reconcile them to God... that when He then gave HIS life, they were justified, their own sins and the sins of Adam paid, that when HE rose, he would become a life giving Spirit to those who were waiting in the rest with their fathers and us who would be called and come later.
The point is that Jesus had done all he needed to do when He went INTO the tomb. He had the keys of death and hell in his hands.... he was INNOCENT. Death and HEll cannot take nor hold that which is innocent of SIN.
The devil has never HAD the keys to death and HEll. GOD ALMIGHTY IS the only one that HAS ever had those keys!!!! God alone decides when life passes from this earth. AND AND AND GOD ALMIGHTY ALONE is the ONE who can send the soul to HELL!
Matthew 10:28 And fear not them which kill the body, but are not able to kill the soul: but rather fear him which is able to destroy both soul and body in hell.
Fear Satan? NO!!!!!!!!! Fear GOD it is the beginning of Wisdom!
Jesus was not murdered. He GAVE HIS LIFE. ONLY GOD can chose the moment of death.
John 10:18 No man taketh it from me, but I lay it down of myself. I have power to lay it down, and I have power to take it again. This commandment have I received of my Father.
Ecclesiastes 8:8 There is no man that hath power over the spirit to retain the spirit; neither hath he power in the day of death: and there is no discharge in that war; neither shall wickedness deliver those that are given to it.
Death is the separation of the SPIRIT from the BODY.
Here is Jesus giving HIS life:
Luke 23:46 And when Jesus had cried with a loud voice, he said, Father, into thy hands I commend my spirit: and having said thus, he gave up the ghost.
ON THE CROSS IN FULL AUTHORITY OVER DEATH AND HELL!!!!!
Now, on this thing of healing... lets look at Peter:
To Whom does Peter speak?
1 ¶ Peter, an apostle of Jesus Christ, to the strangers scattered throughout Pontus, Galatia, Cappadocia, Asia, and Bithynia,
2 Elect according to the foreknowledge of God the Father, through sanctification of the Spirit, unto obedience and sprinkling of the blood of Jesus Christ: Grace unto you, and peace, be multiplied.
Peter speaks to those who have been alienated from the Commonwealth of Israel... Strangers... the same as Paul speaks to here in Ephesus:
Ephesians 2:12 That at that time ye were without Christ, being aliens from the commonwealth of Israel, and strangers from the covenants of promise, having no hope, and without God in the world:
This is to us to those who are predestined to become the Church. This is to you and me...
He speaks to the BORN AGAIN:
23 Being born again, not of corruptible seed, but of incorruptible, by the word of God, which liveth and abideth for ever.
He speaks to us who were not a people of God; but have become a people of God:
10 Which in time past were not a people, but are now the people of God: which had not obtained mercy, but now have obtained mercy.
He speaks of right authority in our lives....
1 Peter 2:11 Dearly beloved, I beseech you as strangers and pilgrims, abstain from fleshly lusts, which war against the soul;
12 Having your conversation honest among the Gentiles: that, whereas they speak against you as evildoers, they may by your good works, which they shall behold, glorify God in the day of visitation.
13 ¶ Submit yourselves to every ordinance of man for the Lord’s sake: whether it be to the king, as supreme;
Peter is saying ... you... you who are among the Gentiles, who are as strangers, but are a PEOPLE Of GOD....ACT LIKE IT!!!!
1Peter 2:21 For even hereunto were ye called: because Christ also suffered for us, leaving us an example, that ye should follow his steps:
(CHRIST SUFFERED FOR US ALSO -HIS Stripes - WITH which the Hebrews were reconciled are the same stripes with which we are adopted! Made no more strangers but ABRAHAM's Seed!!!!)
22 Who did no sin, neither was guile found in his mouth:
23 Who, when he was reviled, reviled not again; when he suffered, he threatened not; but committed himself to him that judgeth righteously:
(DONT MISS THIS!!! Did you see in Isaiah where it was his beatings that he suffered for the people to whom Isaiah prophesied? Now look... on the tree HE bore OUR SINS. He was punished on the way to the cross for the sins of Israel and on the cross for the sins of the gentiles, and then HE gave HIS life for the sins in all of us that came by Adam.)
24 Who his own self bare our sins in his own body on the tree, that we, being dead to sins, should live unto righteousness: by whose stripes ye were healed.
BY not with here, but BY HIS Stripes we too are healed. But what does this healing mean???? The CONTEXT below tells us.........
25 For ye were as sheep going astray; but are now returned unto the Shepherd and Bishop of your souls.
Not this passage nor the other passage in Isaiah speaks to physical healing of the physical ailments of the BODY; You just cannot go there with out wresting these scriptures out of Context and if you do that you miss what Christ has DONE!!!!
This physical body of yours and mine is meant to corrupt - it is meant to die. Why? Because it is the seed to be sown that our spiritual body that lives inside it can be redeemed!
Your physical body is going to turn to dust; this is how the sin in the flesh is purged. Just as Jesus purged our sins from HIS flesh.... Jesus was raised in the same body that he died in because HIS flesh was without sin... not so with yours. Your body will see corruption. His did not. If you die before he comes it will be because your body needs to be sown.
Does God heal yes, you bet! GOD heals, when and whom he wills as it serves HIS purpose, but there is nothing that says that we are guaranteed to have lives that are without physical ailment. This body has sin in its members; and this body is earthly and it is meant to die. People are not sick because they lack faith; people are sick because we live wrong, eat wrong, pollute our environment and our food and our bodies and because of in in the world and in our members, but you are NOT your body! YOU are a living soul that is a new creature and in you is a spiritual body to be redeemed from this body of sin and death and a Spirit that is the Spirit of God.
Yes, God wills us to proper and be in health... but according to the prospering of our souls!!! The more we walk in HIS will and HIS ways and according to HIS commands and in obedience and right authority and not ignoring the wisdom of the scriptures the more we will walk in health and prosperity.
Eternal life begins here. Amen. You live now in a heavenly Kingdom and should be living in HIS rest; but you live this life in a earthly body that is meant to corrupt and eventually to be shed like a chameleon sheds his skin.
These scriptures in Isaiah and in 1 Peter speak to the healing of our relationship with God... to the healing of our brokenness from HIS life... they are about our reconciliation to BE HIS PEOPLE and HE our GOD!
~U~talk to much. imo put it in a can. Condensed milk.
That can be watered later.
sorry for my sillyness.
--------------------
That is all.....
Posts: 8775 | From: USA, MICHIGAN | Registered: Mar 2004
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helpforhomeschoolers
Advanced Member
Member # 15
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posted
The things that are missed in this thread are amazing!!!!!!
Drew has tried to show this.
Isaiah 53:5 But he was wounded for our transgressions, he was bruised for our iniquities: the chastisement of our peace was upon him; and with his stripes we are healed.
This verse is key to the very heresy that this thread was opened with. Look at what is said here in context!!!
He was wounded for OUR transgressions - Who is our in this CONTEXT?
The HEBREWS. Isaiah was written to the Hebrews; before the church. I am not saying that it does not apply to the church. Do not misunderstand. It does and Peter confirms this in the NT. But hear me out please...
He was killed for their transgressions? NO! He was wounded and HIS blood was shed in the wounding folks.
He was bruised... for OUR Iniquity. Our = The people to whom Isaiah prophesied. BRUISED for iniquity.
The chastisement (PUNISHMENT)of OUR (THE HEBREWS)peace (SHALOM _ COMPLETENESS_ WHOLENESS)was upon him.
and....
WITH his stripes we are healed.
WITH HIS STRIPES WE (THE HEBREWS) are 07495 apr rapha’ raw-faw’ or hpr raphah raw-faw’
Healed - in the PASSIVE, PERFECT Mood. This means it is done to the object of the verb (the Hebrews) and it is complete now. A done deal.
First, you have to know that before Christ was risen and the Gospel taken to the Gentiles, this could not apply to you the church because you were not called to God and relationship with HIM.
This is when ALL MEN were called to the Cross and to reconcilliation...
John 12:32 And I, if I be lifted up from the earth, will draw all men unto me.
This is the making of Christ to be sin that Isaiah is prophesying. This whole chapter 53 is the picture of that .... the making of Christ to be sin. We see that they (the Hebrews thought he was smitten of God) (but they find that this is no the case that it was their sin being laid upon his flesh that with the shedding of his blood before he ever made it to the cross, God was healing them.....making them whole, reconciling them to HIMself.
Salvation is a multifaceted thing. They had a relationship that was unique to them. Out of the whole of the people of the earth they were called to be HIS People and HE their God; there was a covenant and it was broken... They were broken in this life and out of right relationship with their GOD.
And before he gave HIS life; HE gave HIS blood and HIS body BROKEN FOR YOU... REMEMBER THOSE WORDS?
THIS IS MY BODY BROKEN FOR YOU... this is in Isaiah the breaking of HIS BODY AND BY THAT they were healed. Reconciled.
While HE still yet was alive, they were reconciled.
THEN..THEN THEN... When HE Had done that...He gave even more. HIS life.
Do you not understand that the reason we need a savior is because we only have one life and it is not enough?
The sin of Adam born in me is enough to take my life. So I give it when I die.
Then what is there to pay for my own sins for which the price is death?
Christ gave his body to be broken to pay for their iniquity, the punishment of their peace (incompleteness, transgressions - THEIR SINS.
Then HE gave his life for the sin of ADAM in all of us.
There are 2 sacrifices here. One in HIS beating and cursing and physical punishment and shedding of sinless blood and the second HIS life for to take away the sin of the WHOLE world not just the justified. The sin of Adam in even the heathen that will never be saved was paid for by the life of Jesus. This is HOW the heathen can justly die for his OWN sins.
BEHOLD THE LAMB OF GOD THAT TAKE AWAY THE SIN OF THE WORLD.
; and with his stripes we are healed.
WITH the stripes... the breaking of the BODY, WE (the people of God) are made whole to be be the people of God.
The Hebrew language does not have a different word for healing of the physical body and healing of the spiritual body.
Here you see Rapha used for physical healing:
Leviticus 13:18 The flesh also, in which, even in the skin thereof, was a boil, and is healed <07495>,
Here it is used to repair a broken altar:
1 Kings 18:30 And Elijah said unto all the people, Come near unto me. And all the people came near unto him. And he repaired <07495> the altar of the LORD that was broken down.
Here it is used to speak of reconciliation:
Isaiah 6:10 Make the heart of this people fat, and make their ears heavy, and shut their eyes; lest they see with their eyes, and hear with their ears, and understand with their heart, and convert, and be healed <07495>.
The word means to make un broken - Christ bore upon HIS body the sins of the people that they might be restored to God as HIS people.
Then HE died - that they might live eternal life.
It is SOOOOO important to understand that all these things happened before Christ was laid in the TOMB. IT was a DONE DEAL. HE WAS SUFFICIENT. Nothing more was needed of HIM; HIS sacrifice was accepted:
This is shown here:
Isaiah 53:10 ¶ Yet it pleased the LORD to bruise him; he hath put him to grief: when thou shalt make his soul an offering for sin, he shall see his seed, he shall prolong his days, and the pleasure of the LORD shall prosper in his hand.
11 He shall see of the travail of his soul, and shall be satisfied: by his knowledge shall my righteous servant justify many; for he shall bear their iniquities.
This is not soul as some esoteric thing... this is his life...a living soul. Do you see that this says that God shall see the travail of his life - the punishment he suffered.... and BY HIS (God's knowledge) (Of Christ's innocence) the RIGHTEOUS Servant JESUS shall JUSTIFY MANY. Justifiy.... not all are justified. This is speaking to the acceptance of the breaking of the BODY of Jesus for the sins of Israel to reconcile them to God... that when He then gave HIS life, they were justified, their own sins and the sins of Adam paid, that when HE rose, he would become a life giving Spirit to those who were waiting in the rest with their fathers and us who would be called and come later.
The point is that Jesus had done all he needed to do when He went INTO the tomb. He had the keys of death and hell in his hands.... he was INNOCENT. Death and HEll cannot take nor hold that which is innocent of SIN.
The devil has never HAD the keys to death and HEll. GOD ALMIGHTY IS the only one that HAS ever had those keys!!!! God alone decides when life passes from this earth. AND AND AND GOD ALMIGHTY ALONE is the ONE who can send the soul to HELL!
Matthew 10:28 And fear not them which kill the body, but are not able to kill the soul: but rather fear him which is able to destroy both soul and body in hell.
Fear Satan? NO!!!!!!!!! Fear GOD it is the beginning of Wisdom!
Jesus was not murdered. He GAVE HIS LIFE. ONLY GOD can chose the moment of death.
John 10:18 No man taketh it from me, but I lay it down of myself. I have power to lay it down, and I have power to take it again. This commandment have I received of my Father.
Ecclesiastes 8:8 There is no man that hath power over the spirit to retain the spirit; neither hath he power in the day of death: and there is no discharge in that war; neither shall wickedness deliver those that are given to it.
Death is the separation of the SPIRIT from the BODY.
Here is Jesus giving HIS life:
Luke 23:46 And when Jesus had cried with a loud voice, he said, Father, into thy hands I commend my spirit: and having said thus, he gave up the ghost.
ON THE CROSS IN FULL AUTHORITY OVER DEATH AND HELL!!!!!
Now, on this thing of healing... lets look at Peter:
To Whom does Peter speak?
1 ¶ Peter, an apostle of Jesus Christ, to the strangers scattered throughout Pontus, Galatia, Cappadocia, Asia, and Bithynia,
2 Elect according to the foreknowledge of God the Father, through sanctification of the Spirit, unto obedience and sprinkling of the blood of Jesus Christ: Grace unto you, and peace, be multiplied.
Peter speaks to those who have been alienated from the Commonwealth of Israel... Strangers... the same as Paul speaks to here in Ephesus:
Ephesians 2:12 That at that time ye were without Christ, being aliens from the commonwealth of Israel, and strangers from the covenants of promise, having no hope, and without God in the world:
This is to us to those who are predestined to become the Church. This is to you and me...
He speaks to the BORN AGAIN:
23 Being born again, not of corruptible seed, but of incorruptible, by the word of God, which liveth and abideth for ever.
He speaks to us who were not a people of God; but have become a people of God:
10 Which in time past were not a people, but are now the people of God: which had not obtained mercy, but now have obtained mercy.
He speaks of right authority in our lives....
1 Peter 2:11 Dearly beloved, I beseech you as strangers and pilgrims, abstain from fleshly lusts, which war against the soul;
12 Having your conversation honest among the Gentiles: that, whereas they speak against you as evildoers, they may by your good works, which they shall behold, glorify God in the day of visitation.
13 ¶ Submit yourselves to every ordinance of man for the Lord’s sake: whether it be to the king, as supreme;
Peter is saying ... you... you who are among the Gentiles, who are as strangers, but are a PEOPLE Of GOD....ACT LIKE IT!!!!
1Peter 2:21 For even hereunto were ye called: because Christ also suffered for us, leaving us an example, that ye should follow his steps:
(CHRIST SUFFERED FOR US ALSO -HIS Stripes - WITH which the Hebrews were reconciled are the same stripes with which we are adopted! Made no more strangers but ABRAHAM's Seed!!!!)
22 Who did no sin, neither was guile found in his mouth:
23 Who, when he was reviled, reviled not again; when he suffered, he threatened not; but committed himself to him that judgeth righteously:
(DONT MISS THIS!!! Did you see in Isaiah where it was his beatings that he suffered for the people to whom Isaiah prophesied? Now look... on the tree HE bore OUR SINS. He was punished on the way to the cross for the sins of Israel and on the cross for the sins of the gentiles, and then HE gave HIS life for the sins in all of us that came by Adam.)
24 Who his own self bare our sins in his own body on the tree, that we, being dead to sins, should live unto righteousness: by whose stripes ye were healed.
BY not with here, but BY HIS Stripes we too are healed. But what does this healing mean???? The CONTEXT below tells us.........
25 For ye were as sheep going astray; but are now returned unto the Shepherd and Bishop of your souls.
Not this passage nor the other passage in Isaiah speaks to physical healing of the physical ailments of the BODY; You just cannot go there with out wresting these scriptures out of Context and if you do that you miss what Christ has DONE!!!!
This physical body of yours and mine is meant to corrupt - it is meant to die. Why? Because it is the seed to be sown that our spiritual body that lives inside it can be redeemed!
Your physical body is going to turn to dust; this is how the sin in the flesh is purged. Just as Jesus purged our sins from HIS flesh.... Jesus was raised in the same body that he died in because HIS flesh was without sin... not so with yours. Your body will see corruption. His did not. If you die before he comes it will be because your body needs to be sown.
Does God heal yes, you bet! GOD heals, when and whom he wills as it serves HIS purpose, but there is nothing that says that we are guaranteed to have lives that are without physical ailment. This body has sin in its members; and this body is earthly and it is meant to die. People are not sick because they lack faith; people are sick because we live wrong, eat wrong, pollute our environment and our food and our bodies and because of in in the world and in our members, but you are NOT your body! YOU are a living soul that is a new creature and in you is a spiritual body to be redeemed from this body of sin and death and a Spirit that is the Spirit of God.
Yes, God wills us to proper and be in health... but according to the prospering of our souls!!! The more we walk in HIS will and HIS ways and according to HIS commands and in obedience and right authority and not ignoring the wisdom of the scriptures the more we will walk in health and prosperity.
Eternal life begins here. Amen. You live now in a heavenly Kingdom and should be living in HIS rest; but you live this life in a earthly body that is meant to corrupt and eventually to be shed like a chameleon sheds his skin.
These scriptures in Isaiah and in 1 Peter speak to the healing of our relationship with God... to the healing of our brokenness from HIS life... they are about our reconciliation to BE HIS PEOPLE and HE our GOD!
Posts: 4684 | From: Southern Black Hills of South Dakota | Registered: Jun 2002
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WildB
Moderator
Member # 2917
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posted
quote:
Originally posted by ^AngelofLight^:
quote:
Originally posted by WildB:
quote:
Originally posted by ^AngelofLight^:
quote:
Originally posted by wparr:
But you are pointing OWN finger, so you are just as guilty of hypocritical righteousness as the people you are accusing.
Pointing "own" finger, was that the beginning to some ancient chinese proverb leftover from last nights fortune cookie?
I used no quotes of the bible to steer anyone into my own version of what it means. I lack the sheer superb and divine presumptuousness for the task.
I believe nobody. To me you may as well all be false prophets clamouring amongst yourselves and vying fruitlessly for a secure position in heaven. I have no platform, no organisation, no need to instill the fear of god in exchange for a buck. What I need to know of god will not be heard from the mouths of men.It will be heard in the darkness of my own nights.
~
The light of the body is the eye: if therefore thine eye be single, thy whole body shall be full of light.
But if thine eye be evil, thy whole body shall be full of darkness. If therefore the light that is in thee be darkness, how great is that darkness!
How surprising.....a biblical quote. No real input of your capabilities of interpreting even a Dick and Jane book. You latch on to the word darkness, and find a few paragraphs that will suddenly *presto* prove that I am evil? Hardly worth an exclamation point. Word spinning to little meaning or effect or bearing on the discussion. What a cushion from any logical discussion, inapplicable heavy words from the book.
Thine eye is just fine. Thine eye is undeluded and open to clarity. You would no doubt find some reason to call the resurrected mary herself evil, if she kept her identity from you. Lash her with a few ill placed biblical quotes.
Your understanding does not extend so far, it is mere delusion.
Delusional~OK~Marry herself has not been resurrected~yet.
The 1st reserrection happened at Christ's death.
When captivity was led captive. Marry was still alive. She did not have part of this reserection.
So please do tell the baseball fans to which reserection you use?
"[51] And, behold, the veil of the temple was rent in twain from the top to the bottom; and the earth did quake, and the rocks rent;
[52] And the graves were opened; and many bodies of the saints which slept arose,"
Now stop your sillyness~
--------------------
That is all.....
Posts: 8775 | From: USA, MICHIGAN | Registered: Mar 2004
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Caretaker
Advanced Member
Member # 36
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posted
God's Word stands and he who rejects it will fall for anything.
--------------------
A Servant of Christ,
Drew
1 Tim. 3:
16: And without controversy great is the mystery of godliness: God was manifest in the flesh..
Posts: 3978 | From: Council Grove, KS USA | Registered: Jun 2002
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^AngelofLight^
Community Member
Member # 5152
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posted
quote:
Originally posted by Caretaker:
2 Timothy 4:1-8
1 I charge thee therefore before God, and the Lord Jesus Christ, who shall judge the quick and the dead at his appearing and his kingdom;
2 Preach the word; be instant in season, out of season; reprove, rebuke, exhort with all longsuffering and doctrine.
3 For the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine; but after their own lusts shall they heap to themselves teachers, having itching ears;
4 And they shall turn away their ears from the truth, and shall be turned unto fables.
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
AOL:
Bravo. Keep the quotes coming. Surely my username is a fabulous indication that I am evil incarnate, Satan herself. Man's interpretation of the word of god, condemnation for those who doubt his divine message is uncorrupted and delivered without ill motive and prejudice, by man. Mangle and contort the words as you must, to suit your unholy purposes. Spirituality is lost on you
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
If one is without Jesus, God manifest in the flesh, our soul's Redeeemer, Justifier, Sanctifier, then one's righteousness is as filty rags in the eyes of God and that one stands condemned for having rejected Christ.
Your "spirituality" is not worth a hill of beans, and is a pathway of destruction. There is NOT one truth of God contrary to His Word, and there is NOT one pathway to God except through Christ Jesus our Lord and the redemption found ONLY in HIM.
and there is NOT one pathway to God except through Christ Jesus our Lord and the redemption found ONLY in HIM.
ONLY IN HIM.
There you go confusing yourselves with christ again. Your word is not his word, and they only fool the weak and confused. Say what you will of my spirituality, since you know nothing of it. You will not lead me to god.......god, will lead me to god.
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If it be your will.
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Caretaker
Advanced Member
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posted
2 Timothy 4:1-8
1 I charge thee therefore before God, and the Lord Jesus Christ, who shall judge the quick and the dead at his appearing and his kingdom;
2 Preach the word; be instant in season, out of season; reprove, rebuke, exhort with all longsuffering and doctrine.
3 For the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine; but after their own lusts shall they heap to themselves teachers, having itching ears;
4 And they shall turn away their ears from the truth, and shall be turned unto fables.
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
AOL:
Bravo. Keep the quotes coming. Surely my username is a fabulous indication that I am evil incarnate, Satan herself. Man's interpretation of the word of god, condemnation for those who doubt his divine message is uncorrupted and delivered without ill motive and prejudice, by man. Mangle and contort the words as you must, to suit your unholy purposes. Spirituality is lost on you
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
If one is without Jesus, God manifest in the flesh, our soul's Redeeemer, Justifier, Sanctifier, then one's righteousness is as filty rags in the eyes of God and that one stands condemned for having rejected Christ.
Your "spirituality" is not worth a hill of beans, and is a pathway of destruction. There is NOT one truth of God contrary to His Word, and there is NOT one pathway to God except through Christ Jesus our Lord and the redemption found ONLY in HIM.
--------------------
A Servant of Christ,
Drew
1 Tim. 3:
16: And without controversy great is the mystery of godliness: God was manifest in the flesh..
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^AngelofLight^
Community Member
Member # 5152
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posted
quote:
Originally posted by SoftTouch:
2 Corinthians 11:14And no marvel; for Satan himself is transformed into an angel of light.
Bravo. Keep the quotes coming. Surely my username is a fabulous indication that I am evil incarnate, Satan herself. Man's interpretation of the word of god, condemnation for those who doubt his divine message is uncorrupted and delivered without ill motive and prejudice, by man. Mangle and contort the words as you must, to suit your unholy purposes. Spirituality is lost on you.
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If it be your will.
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Caretaker
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posted
If one does not follow the Word of God and the God of the Word, then they are under the direction and control of the god of this world and open to demonic influences.
Jesus Christ is the ONLY pathway to God, and those who reject Him are condemned already.
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A Servant of Christ,
Drew
1 Tim. 3:
16: And without controversy great is the mystery of godliness: God was manifest in the flesh..
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SoftTouch
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posted
2 Corinthians 11:14And no marvel; for Satan himself is transformed into an angel of light.
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Psalm 119:104Through thy precepts I get understanding: therefore I hate every false way. 105Thy word is a lamp unto my feet, and a light unto my path.
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^AngelofLight^
Community Member
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posted
quote:
Originally posted by WildB:
quote:
Originally posted by ^AngelofLight^:
quote:
Originally posted by wparr:
But you are pointing OWN finger, so you are just as guilty of hypocritical righteousness as the people you are accusing.
Pointing "own" finger, was that the beginning to some ancient chinese proverb leftover from last nights fortune cookie?
I used no quotes of the bible to steer anyone into my own version of what it means. I lack the sheer superb and divine presumptuousness for the task.
I believe nobody. To me you may as well all be false prophets clamouring amongst yourselves and vying fruitlessly for a secure position in heaven. I have no platform, no organisation, no need to instill the fear of god in exchange for a buck. What I need to know of god will not be heard from the mouths of men.It will be heard in the darkness of my own nights.
~
The light of the body is the eye: if therefore thine eye be single, thy whole body shall be full of light.
But if thine eye be evil, thy whole body shall be full of darkness. If therefore the light that is in thee be darkness, how great is that darkness!
How surprising.....a biblical quote. No real input of your capabilities of interpreting even a Dick and Jane book. You latch on to the word darkness, and find a few paragraphs that will suddenly *presto* prove that I am evil? Hardly worth an exclamation point. Word spinning to little meaning or effect or bearing on the discussion. What a cushion from any logical discussion, inapplicable heavy words from the book.
Thine eye is just fine. Thine eye is undeluded and open to clarity. You would no doubt find some reason to call the resurrected mary herself evil, if she kept her identity from you. Lash her with a few ill placed biblical quotes.
Your understanding does not extend so far, it is mere delusion.
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If it be your will.
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wparr
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posted
So iiiifffff "healed by His stripes" means physical.
Then how did healing take place before His death?
huuuuummmmmmm?????
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WhiteEagle
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posted
wildb:
Again, if you are unable to believe God's Word, I would call that silly.
Let it be according to your faith
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WildB
Moderator
Member # 2917
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posted
quote:
Originally posted by WhiteEagle:
quote:
Originally posted by WildB:
Well I guess there is nothing left for you to do then to drink some poison as you handel a deadly snake.
Mark.16
[18] They shall take up serpents; and if they drink any deadly thing, it shall not hurt them; they shall lay hands on the sick, and they shall recover.
Stop your sillyness. [/QB]
I just spent 10 days in a Central America country. Many I went with were ill for several days after returning home to America. They got sick from contaminated food or water. I ate the same foods as they did and drank the same water.
I never go sick.
I've never had to deal with a deadly snake yet, but I trust God for that too.
It's very silly not to trust in God. [/QB][/QUOTE]
~
What part of DEADLY don't you get? Someone getting sick from contaminated food or water from the same area you were at does not quite make you blessed because you didnt.
Now ingest something that has a LD50 rateing and I will be impressed with your sillyness.
What does LD50 mean?
LD stands for "Lethal Dose". LD50 is the amount of a material, given all at once, which causes the death of 50% (one half) of a group of test animals. The LD50 is one way to measure the short-term poisoning potential (acute toxicity) of a material.
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That is all.....
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WhiteEagle
Advanced Member
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posted
quote:
Originally posted by WildB:
[/qb]
Well I guess there is nothing left for you to do then to drink some poison as you handel a deadly snake.
Mark.16
[18] They shall take up serpents; and if they drink any deadly thing, it shall not hurt them; they shall lay hands on the sick, and they shall recover.
Stop your sillyness. [/QB][/QUOTE]
I just spent 10 days in a Central America country. Many I went with were ill for several days after returning home to America. They got sick from contaminated food or water. I ate the same foods as they did and drank the same water.
I never go sick.
I've never had to deal with a deadly snake yet, but I trust God for that too.
It's very silly not to trust in God.
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WildB
Moderator
Member # 2917
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posted
quote:
Originally posted by ^AngelofLight^:
quote:
Originally posted by wparr:
But you are pointing OWN finger, so you are just as guilty of hypocritical righteousness as the people you are accusing.
Pointing "own" finger, was that the beginning to some ancient chinese proverb leftover from last nights fortune cookie?
I used no quotes of the bible to steer anyone into my own version of what it means. I lack the sheer superb and divine presumptuousness for the task.
I believe nobody. To me you may as well all be false prophets clamouring amongst yourselves and vying fruitlessly for a secure position in heaven. I have no platform, no organisation, no need to instill the fear of god in exchange for a buck. What I need to know of god will not be heard from the mouths of men.It will be heard in the darkness of my own nights.
~
The light of the body is the eye: if therefore thine eye be single, thy whole body shall be full of light.
But if thine eye be evil, thy whole body shall be full of darkness. If therefore the light that is in thee be darkness, how great is that darkness!
--------------------
That is all.....
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^AngelofLight^
Community Member
Member # 5152
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posted
quote:
Originally posted by wparr:
But you are pointing OWN finger, so you are just as guilty of hypocritical righteousness as the people you are accusing.
Pointing "own" finger, was that the beginning to some ancient chinese proverb leftover from last nights fortune cookie?
I used no quotes of the bible to steer anyone into my own version of what it means. I lack the sheer superb and divine presumptuousness for the task.
I believe nobody. To me you may as well all be false prophets clamouring amongst yourselves and vying fruitlessly for a secure position in heaven. I have no platform, no organisation, no need to instill the fear of god in exchange for a buck. What I need to know of god will not be heard from the mouths of men.It will be heard in the darkness of my own nights.
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If it be your will.
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WildB
Moderator
Member # 2917
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posted
quote:
Originally posted by WhiteEagle:
2 Corinthians 3:16-18
"But whenever a person turns to the Lord the veil is removed. Now the Lord is the Spirit; and where the Spirit of the Lord is there is freedom. WE all with unveiled faces are reflecting the glory of the Lord and are being transformed into the same image from glory to glory, this is from the Lord who is the Spirit."
quote:
from wildB:
And to what "veil" do you speak?
My reading , studing, and understanding of the Faith in Heberws is that some got sawn asunder!
No physical help.
Also~
Why are you shouting?
Do ~U~ think you scare me?
And as to the "veil" why do you think it was worn?
I wrote in caps to have those words stand out.
The "veil" spoken of by Paul in Corinthians is a spiritual veil of blindness. It also represents the Veil that was rent in the Holy of Holies when Jesus died on the cross, and this opened the veil to believers to be able to enter in and have communion directly with God through Jesus the mediator.
When you change the meaning of scripture and say that healing doesn't mean actual healing. You have a veil over your understanding.
If you read Hebrews chapter 11, it outlines the Old Testament saints who put their faith in action.
We have the promise of healing through Christ's atonement and forgiveness of sins both.
We are also told that as Christians we will be subject to persecution by the world. Yes saints were executed and tortured and still are to this day.
But notice it's not God who tortures them. It's the world and the ruler of this world.
Having an illness is not considered persecution by the world. No one is making one sick because they are a Christian, so to act like one is suffering for Christ when they are sick is wrong thinking.
Well I guess there is nothing left for you to do then to drink some poison as you handel a deadly snake.
Mark.16
[18] They shall take up serpents; and if they drink any deadly thing, it shall not hurt them; they shall lay hands on the sick, and they shall recover.
Stop your sillyness.
--------------------
That is all.....
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WhiteEagle
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posted
quote:
Originally posted by wparr:
CONTEXT CONTEXT CONTEXT
NOT what you WANT to read into a verse.
Let it be unto you according to your faith.
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wparr
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posted
CONTEXT CONTEXT CONTEXT
NOT what you WANT to read into a verse.
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WhiteEagle
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posted
quote:
Originally posted by WildB:
Jas.5
1. [14] Is any sick among you? let him call for the elders of the church; and let them pray over him, anointing him with oil in the name of the Lord:
now watch this~
[15] And the prayer of faith shall SAVE the sick, and the Lord shall raise him up; and if he have committed sins, they shall be forgiven him.
Where is the real healing being made? In the Body?
OR
The SOUL.............
Let me remind all ~U~ faith healers....
Heb.9
1. [27] And as it is appointed unto men once to die, but after this the judgment:
~U~ can't heal yourself out of that now can you.
Don't be so close-minded. You see only one part of the whole picture here.
The prayer of faith shall save the sick and the Lord shall raise him up means literally healed of their affliction. Forgiveness goes hand in hand with healing as the person being healed will need to repent and then he is forgiven also.
You need to realize the fullness of being redeemed from our sins encompasses. Sins cause stress, stress causes diseases. When we repent of our sins, God can forgive us, and then the physcial impacts of those sins can be redeemed also.
The impact of sin is not on an island, it affects every area of our lives, spiritual, mental, emotional and physical.
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WhiteEagle
Advanced Member
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posted
quote:
Originally posted by wparr:
I agree Jesus heals physically
BUT THOSE VERSE DO NOT DO NOT DO NOT SUPPORT THAT
CONTEXT CONTEXT CONTEXT
I pray that one day the POWER of those verses will sink in for you.
Healing means healing. It's not a hidden concept in the Bible.
Forgiveness is a separate issue. Both were bought by the Lamb when He died on the cross and then conquered sin and death.
If Jesus only came to redeem us for forgiveness of sins, then why was His ministry about healing and then forgiving sins?
If Jesus came only to forgive sins and leave us the way He found us, doesn't that negate being tranformed by the renewing of our minds?
Jesus is never recorded as needing to heal Peter physically. Jesus is recorded casting out 7 demons from Mary Magdalene.
Who was the first person that actually SAW Jesus after he Resurrected?
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WhiteEagle
Advanced Member
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posted
2 Corinthians 3:16-18
"But whenever a person turns to the Lord the veil is removed. Now the Lord is the Spirit; and where the Spirit of the Lord is there is freedom. WE all with unveiled faces are reflecting the glory of the Lord and are being transformed into the same image from glory to glory, this is from the Lord who is the Spirit."
quote:
from wildB:
And to what "veil" do you speak?
My reading , studing, and understanding of the Faith in Heberws is that some got sawn asunder!
No physical help.
Also~
Why are you shouting?
Do ~U~ think you scare me?
And as to the "veil" why do you think it was worn?
I wrote in caps to have those words stand out.
The "veil" spoken of by Paul in Corinthians is a spiritual veil of blindness. It also represents the Veil that was rent in the Holy of Holies when Jesus died on the cross, and this opened the veil to believers to be able to enter in and have communion directly with God through Jesus the mediator.
When you change the meaning of scripture and say that healing doesn't mean actual healing. You have a veil over your understanding.
If you read Hebrews chapter 11, it outlines the Old Testament saints who put their faith in action.
We have the promise of healing through Christ's atonement and forgiveness of sins both.
We are also told that as Christians we will be subject to persecution by the world. Yes saints were executed and tortured and still are to this day.
But notice it's not God who tortures them. It's the world and the ruler of this world.
Having an illness is not considered persecution by the world. No one is making one sick because they are a Christian, so to act like one is suffering for Christ when they are sick is wrong thinking.
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wparr
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posted
But you are pointing OWN finger, so you are just as guilty of hypocritical righteousness as the people you are accusing.
Posts: 1203 | From: Eagle Nest, NM | Registered: Jan 2003
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^AngelofLight^
Community Member
Member # 5152
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posted
Everyone claims that others are false, and that their own are truly the righteous. You all sound like a bunch of biblical politicians to me..spin..spin...spin...the words of the bible, who will it point the finger toward next? Who is really headed for damnation? I don't believe any of you know the true word of god, only the words as you interpret them. I listen to no man. I close my ears to all your noise, so that I may hear the voice that guides me. The one I was born recognizing and have not since forgotten in some quest for hypocritical righteousness.
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If it be your will.
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WildB
Moderator
Member # 2917
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posted
Jas.5
1. [14] Is any sick among you? let him call for the elders of the church; and let them pray over him, anointing him with oil in the name of the Lord:
now watch this~
[15] And the prayer of faith shall SAVE the sick, and the Lord shall raise him up; and if he have committed sins, they shall be forgiven him.
Where is the real healing being made? In the Body?
OR
The SOUL.............
Let me remind all ~U~ faith healers....
Heb.9
1. [27] And as it is appointed unto men once to die, but after this the judgment:
~U~ can't heal yourself out of that now can you.
--------------------
That is all.....
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wparr
Advanced Member
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posted
I agree Jesus heals physically
BUT THOSE VERSE DO NOT DO NOT DO NOT SUPPORT THAT
CONTEXT CONTEXT CONTEXT
Posts: 1203 | From: Eagle Nest, NM | Registered: Jan 2003
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WildB
Moderator
Member # 2917
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posted
quote:
Originally posted by WhiteEagle:
quote:
Originally posted by WildB:
My husband says you need to get saved and have a real born again experience and then you will know the Resurrection Power.
We walk by "faith" not feelings. I sugjest you and your husband read prayerfully.
http://www.hti.umich.edu/cgi/k/kjv/kjv-idx?type=DIV2&byte=5305860
now stop your sillyness. [/QUOTE]
2 Corinthians 3:16-18
"But whenever a person turns to the Lord the veil is removed. Now the Lord is the Spirit; and where the Spirit of the Lord is there is freedom. WE all with unveiled faces are reflecting the glory of the Lord and are being transformed into the same image from glory to glory, this is from the Lord who is the Spirit."
"Faith is the substance of things hoped for; EVIDENCE of things unseen."
BY FAITH IN HEBREWS 11TH CHAPTER SHOWS FAITH IN ACTION. [/QB][/QUOTE]
And to what "veil" do you speak?
My reading , studing, and understanding of the Faith in Heberws is that some got sawn asunder!
No physical help.
Also~
Why are you shouting?
Do ~U~ think you scare me?
And as to the "veil" why do you think it was worn?
--------------------
That is all.....
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WhiteEagle
Advanced Member
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posted
quote:
Originally posted by wparr:
We are healed from our sin and seperation from God, so by Jesus' death we are made alive to God.
READ THE VERSE IN CONTEXT
IF you do you CAN NOT come to the conclusion that he means PHYSICAL healing, but rather SPIRITUAL.
NO WPARR, WE ARE FORGIVEN OUR SINS AND ALLOWED ACCESS TO GOD THROUGH CHRIST. OUR SINS CAN'T BE HEALED. OUR SINS ARE CARRIED AS FAR AWAY AS THE EAST IS FROM THE WEST. WE ARE FORGIVEN OUR SINS.
HEALING COMES FROM BEING FORGIVEN OUR SINS.
JESUS DID PHYSICAL HEALINGS. PETER, PAUL, AND OTHER DID PHYSICAL HEALINGS. THE TWO GO HAND IN HAND.
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WhiteEagle
Advanced Member
Member # 3728
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posted
quote:
Originally posted by WildB:
My husband says you need to get saved and have a real born again experience and then you will know the Resurrection Power. [/QUOTE]
We walk by "faith" not feelings. I sugjest you and your husband read prayerfully.
http://www.hti.umich.edu/cgi/k/kjv/kjv-idx?type=DIV2&byte=5305860
now stop your sillyness. [/QB][/QUOTE]
2 Corinthians 3:16-18
"But whenever a person turns to the Lord the veil is removed. Now the Lord is the Spirit; and where the Spirit of the Lord is there is freedom. WE all with unveiled faces are reflecting the glory of the Lord and are being transformed into the same image from glory to glory, this is from the Lord who is the Spirit."
"Faith is the substance of things hoped for; EVIDENCE of things unseen."
BY FAITH IN HEBREWS 11TH CHAPTER SHOWS FAITH IN ACTION.
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wparr
Advanced Member
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posted
We are healed from our sin and seperation from God, so by Jesus' death we are made alive to God.
READ THE VERSE IN CONTEXT
IF you do you CAN NOT come to the conclusion that he means PHYSICAL healing, but rather SPIRITUAL.
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WhiteEagle
Advanced Member
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posted
quote:
Originally posted by SoftTouch:
AMEN Brother Wparr!! AMEN!
People who constantly claim that illness is caused by a lack of faith, or that a Christian should Never be sick, have No Idea the HARM they do to others!!!
Where does the Bible say that we will NEVER be Sick? It Doesn't. Why did the prophets suffer from depression? Were they lacking in faith? I don't think so. Even Jesus had his moment in the garden... was HE lacking in faith? NO! Why did Paul tell Timothy to take a little wine for his stomach problem? Obviously Paul did not see Timothy's stomach problem as a lack of faith or some kind of sin, or he would have said so.
While some illnesses may be caused by Un-Godly behavior, Clearly not all are. To claim that a Christian should Never be sick is to put those who are sick under condemnation and judgement...
Those of you who teach that Christians should never be sick or have any illness... Stop This False Teaching! You are HURTING People!!!!
Who is this terrible person saying such things!!!!
Who said that a Christian should NEVER GET SICK?
Who?
I think you are also taking things out of context and adding thoughts of your own that are not really what has been said.
Jesus healed all who came to HIm in faith. That's in the Bible. Jesus couldn't heal in his own home town, because they had no faith. That's in the Bible too.
Sin is the cause of all diseases and illnesses that mankinds suffers. ALL!
It may not be that person's personal sin that is making them sick, but it's the general SINful world and it's condition as to why we all can be sick or ill.
Some people suffer from generational curses and are sick due to sins commited ere long before they were every born.
Some people can't seem to get over an illness due to sins such as unforgiveness, or other unknown things that only God and they with prayer can find out.
Jesus forgave the sins of any He healed. That's in the Bible.
Of course Christians will get sick or can get sick though not fault of their own as we all live in a fallen world. We can be healed, of many things if we ask in faith.
Many times Christians are not healed because they do lack real faith in that area. Or they easily just decide that God must want them to suffer and bear their burden.
The Bible says that God's will is not for us to be sick. Of course we all will eventually die in the flesh and that will have some kind of medical cause.
If it's a Christians' time to go home, then God will not be healing them.
Maybe God wants that person to learn somethings while they are sick, but it's not God's will that we remain sick for all time. Satan loves it when Christians are sick and likes to make them think it's God's will.
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WhiteEagle
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posted
quote:
by wparr:
CONTEXT CONTEXT CONTEXT
Peter is talking about HOW we live as Christians
He is talking about SUBMISSION
He is talking about LIVING TO RIGHTEOUSNESS
NOWHERE in here is mentioned PHYSICAL healing
NOWHERE
That is taking the verse OUT OF CONTEXT - as soooo sooo many love to do.
This is ONE SENTENCE - read it as such
Dear wparr,
Now how is righteousness and submission the same thing as "by who stripes we are healed?"
Peter does state we are to live righteously and be in submission to God, but that is NOT healing, so what part of of "by His strips we are healed" isn't about literal healing?
Righteousness means healing? Submission=healing as definitions?
I thought that healing meant to be cured or freed from some physical or emotional or mental disease or malady.
Healing isn't a word of fuzzy definitions.
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WildB
Moderator
Member # 2917
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posted
[/QUOTE]My husband says you need to get saved and have a real born again experience and then you will know the Resurrection Power. [/QB][/QUOTE]
We walk by "faith" not feelings. I sugjest you and your husband read prayerfully.
http://www.hti.umich.edu/cgi/k/kjv/kjv-idx?type=DIV2&byte=5305860
now stop your sillyness.
--------------------
That is all.....
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Caretaker
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posted
Peter’s writing in 1 Peter 2, is a direct reference to Isaiah 53. The use of “healing”, is spiritual healing/restoration within its proper context. The Word of Faith proponents wrest it as it were to the deception of themselves and those who follow them.
Isaiah 53:
1: Who hath believed our report? and to whom is the arm of the LORD revealed?
2: For he shall grow up before him as a tender plant, and as a root out of a dry ground: he hath no form nor comeliness; and when we shall see him, there is no beauty that we should desire him.
3: He is despised and rejected of men; a man of sorrows, and acquainted with grief: and we hid as it were our faces from him; he was despised, and we esteemed him not.
4: Surely he hath borne our griefs, and carried our sorrows: yet we did esteem him stricken, smitten of God, and afflicted.
5: But he was wounded for our transgressions, he was bruised for our iniquities: the chastisement of our peace was upon him; and with his stripes we are healed.
6: All we like sheep have gone astray; we have turned every one to his own way; and the LORD hath laid on him the iniquity of us all.
7: He was oppressed, and he was afflicted, yet he opened not his mouth: he is brought as a lamb to the slaughter, and as a sheep before her shearers is dumb, so he openeth not his mouth.
8: He was taken from prison and from judgment: and who shall declare his generation? for he was cut off out of the land of the living: for the transgression of my people was he stricken.
9: And he made his grave with the wicked, and with the rich in his death; because he had done no violence, neither was any deceit in his mouth.
10: Yet it pleased the LORD to bruise him; he hath put him to grief: when thou shalt make his soul an offering for sin, he shall see his seed, he shall prolong his days, and the pleasure of the LORD shall prosper in his hand.
11: He shall see of the travail of his soul, and shall be satisfied: by his knowledge shall my righteous servant justify many; for he shall bear their iniquities.
12: Therefore will I divide him a portion with the great, and he shall divide the spoil with the strong; because he hath poured out his soul unto death: and he was numbered with the transgressors; and he bare the sin of many, and made intercession for the transgressors.
1 Peter 2:
21: For even hereunto were ye called: because Christ also suffered for us, leaving us an example, that ye should follow his steps:
22: Who did no sin, neither was guile found in his mouth:
23: Who, when he was reviled, reviled not again; when he suffered, he threatened not; but committed himself to him that judgeth righteously:
24: Who his own self bare our sins in his own body on the tree, that we, being dead to sins, should live unto righteousness: by whose stripes ye were healed.
25: For ye were as sheep going astray; but are now returned unto the Shepherd and Bishop of your souls.
5: But he was wounded for our transgressions, he was bruised for our iniquities: the chastisement of our peace was upon him; and with his stripes we are healed.
24: Who his own self bare our sins in his own body on the tree, that we, being dead to sins, should live unto righteousness: by whose stripes ye were healed.
5. wounded--a bodily wound; not mere mental sorrow; literally, "pierced"; minutely appropriate to Messiah, whose hands, feet, and side were pierced (Psalms 22:16). The Margin, wrongly, from a Hebrew root, translates, "tormented."
for . . . for--(Romans 4:25, 2 Corinthians 5:21, Hebrews 9:28, 1 Peter 2:24, 3:18)--the cause for which He suffered not His own, but our sins.
bruised--crushing inward and outward suffering
chastisement--literally, the correction inflicted by a parent on children for their good (Hebrews 12:5-8,10,11). Not punishment strictly; for this can have place only where there is guilt, which He had not; but He took on Himself the chastisement whereby the peace (reconciliation with our Father; Romans 5:1, Ephesians 2:14,15,17) of the children of God was to be effected (Hebrews 2:14).
upon him--as a burden; parallel to "hath borne" and "carried."
stripes--minutely prophetical of His being scourged (Matthew 27:26, 1 Peter 2:24).
healed--spiritually (Psalms 41:4, Jeremiah 8:22).
Psalm 41:
1: Blessed is he that considereth the poor: the LORD will deliver him in time of trouble.
2: The LORD will preserve him, and keep him alive; and he shall be blessed upon the earth: and thou wilt not deliver him unto the will of his enemies.
3: The LORD will strengthen him upon the bed of languishing: thou wilt make all his bed in his sickness.
4: I said, LORD, be merciful unto me: heal my soul; for I have sinned against thee.
Jeremiah 8:
18: When I would comfort myself against sorrow, my heart is faint in me.
19: Behold the voice of the cry of the daughter of my people because of them that dwell in a far country: Is not the LORD in Zion? is not her king in her? Why have they provoked me to anger with their graven images, and with strange vanities?
20: The harvest is past, the summer is ended, and we are not saved.
21: For the hurt of the daughter of my people am I hurt; I am black; astonishment hath taken hold on me.
22: Is there no balm in Gilead; is there no physician there? why then is not the health of the daughter of my people recovered?
Hebrew “healed”
Strong's Number: 07495 Browse Lexicon
Original Word Word Origin
apr a primitive root
Transliterated Word TDNT Entry
Rapha' TWOT - 2196
Phonetic Spelling Parts of Speech
raw-faw'
Verb
Definition
1. to heal, make healthful
a. (Qal) to heal
1. of God
2. healer, physician (of men)
3. of hurts of nations involving restored favour (fig)
4. of individual distresses (fig)
b. (Niphal) to be healed
1. literal (of persons)
2. of water, pottery
3. of national hurts (fig)
4. of personal distress (fig)
c. (Piel) to heal
1. literal
2. of national defects or hurts (fig)
d. (Hithpael) in order to get healed (infinitive)
1 Peter 2 Read This Chapter
2:24Who his own self bare our sins in his own body on the tree, that we, being dead to sins, should live unto righteousness: by whose stripes ye were healed.
Greek “heal”:
Strong's Number: 2390 Browse Lexicon
Original Word Word Origin
ijavomai middle voice of apparently a primary verb
Transliterated Word TDNT Entry
Iaomai 3:194,344
Phonetic Spelling Parts of Speech
ee-ah'-om-ahee
Verb
Definition
1. to cure, heal
2. to make whole
a. to free from errors and sins, to bring about (one's) salvation
Isaiah 19:
22: And the LORD shall smite Egypt: he shall smite and heal it: and they shall return even to the LORD, and he shall be intreated of them, and shall heal them.
23: In that day shall there be a highway out of Egypt to Assyria, and the Assyrian shall come into Egypt, and the Egyptian into Assyria, and the Egyptians shall serve with the Assyrians.
24: In that day shall Israel be the third with Egypt and with Assyria, even a blessing in the midst of the land:
25: Whom the LORD of hosts shall bless, saying, Blessed be Egypt my people, and Assyria the work of my hands, and Israel mine inheritance.
Isaiah 57:
12: I will declare thy righteousness, and thy works; for they shall not profit thee.
13: When thou criest, let thy companies deliver thee; but the wind shall carry them all away; vanity shall take them: but he that putteth his trust in me shall possess the land, and shall inherit my holy mountain;
14: And shall say, Cast ye up, cast ye up, prepare the way, take up the stumblingblock out of the way of my people.
15: For thus saith the high and lofty One that inhabiteth eternity, whose name is Holy; I dwell in the high and holy place, with him also that is of a contrite and humble spirit, to revive the spirit of the humble, and to revive the heart of the contrite ones.
16: For I will not contend for ever, neither will I be always wroth: for the spirit should fail before me, and the souls which I have made.
17: For the iniquity of his covetousness was I wroth, and smote him: I hid me, and was wroth, and he went on frowardly in the way of his heart.
18: I have seen his ways, and will heal him: I will lead him also, and restore comforts unto him and to his mourners.
19: I create the fruit of the lips; Peace, peace to him that is far off, and to him that is near, saith the LORD; and I will heal him.
20: But the wicked are like the troubled sea, when it cannot rest, whose waters cast up mire and dirt.
21: There is no peace, saith my God, to the wicked.
1 Peter 2:
24. his own self--there being none other but Himself who could have done it. His voluntary undertaking of the work of redemption is implied. The Greek puts in antithetical juxtaposition, OUR, and His OWN SELF, to mark the idea of His substitution for us. His "well-doing" in His sufferings is set forth here as an example to servants and to us all (1 Peter 2:20).
bare--to sacrifice: carried and offered up: a sacrificial term. Isaiah 53:11,12, "He bare the sin of many": where the idea of bearing on Himself is the prominent one; here the offering in sacrifice is combined with that idea. So the same Greek means in 1 Peter 2:5.
our sins--In offering or presenting in sacrifice (as the Greek for "bare" implies) His body, Christ offered in it the guilt of our sins upon the cross, as upon the altar of God, that it might be expiated in Him, and so taken away from us. Compare Isaiah 53:10, "Thou shalt make His soul an offering for sin." Peter thus means by "bare" what the Syriac takes two words to express, to bear and to offer: (1) He hath borne our sins laid upon Him [namely, their guilt, curse, and punishment]; (2) He hath so borne them that He offered them along with Himself on the altar. He refers to the animals upon which sins were first laid, and which were then offered thus laden [VITRINGA]. Sin or guilt among the Semitic nations is considered as a burden lying heavily upon the sinner [GESENIUS].
on the tree--the cross, the proper place for One on whom the curse was laid: this curse stuck to Him until it was legally (through His death as the guilt-bearer) destroyed in His body: thus the handwriting of the bond against us is cancelled by His death.
that we being dead to sins--the effect of His death to "sin" in the aggregate, and to all particular "sins," namely, that we should be as entirely delivered from them, as a slave that is dead is delivered from service to his master. This is our spiritful standing through faith by virtue of Christ's death: our actual mortification of particular sins is in proportion to the degree of our effectually being made conformable to His death. "That we should die to the sins whose collected guilt Christ carried away in His death, and so LIVE TO THE RIGHTEOUSNESS (compare Isaiah 53:11. 'My righteous servant shall justify many'), the gracious relation to God which He has brought in" [STEIGER].
by whose stripes--Greek, "stripe."
ye were healed--a paradox, yet true. "Ye servants (compare 'buffeted,' 'the tree,' 1 Peter 2:20,24) often bear the strife; but it is not more than your Lord Himself bore; learn from Him patience in wrongful sufferings.
25. (Isaiah 53:6.)
For--Assigning their natural need of healing (1 Peter 2:24).
now--Now that the atonement for all has been made, the foundation is laid for individual conversion: so "ye are returned," or "have become converted to," &c.
Shepherd and Bishop--The designation of the pastors and elders of the Church belongs in its fullest sense to the great Head of the Church, "the good Shepherd." As the "bishop" oversees (as the Greek term means), so "the eyes of the Lord are over the righteous" (1 Peter 3:12). He gives us His spirit and feeds and guides us by His word. "Shepherd," Hebrew, "Parnas," is often applied to kings, and enters into the composition of names, as "Pharnabazus."
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A Servant of Christ,
Drew
1 Tim. 3:
16: And without controversy great is the mystery of godliness: God was manifest in the flesh..
Posts: 3978 | From: Council Grove, KS USA | Registered: Jun 2002
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SoftTouch
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posted
AMEN Brother Wparr!! AMEN!
People who constantly claim that illness is caused by a lack of faith, or that a Christian should Never be sick, have No Idea the HARM they do to others!!!
Where does the Bible say that we will NEVER be Sick? It Doesn't. Why did the prophets suffer from depression? Were they lacking in faith? I don't think so. Even Jesus had his moment in the garden... was HE lacking in faith? NO! Why did Paul tell Timothy to take a little wine for his stomach problem? Obviously Paul did not see Timothy's stomach problem as a lack of faith or some kind of sin, or he would have said so.
While some illnesses may be caused by Un-Godly behavior, Clearly not all are. To claim that a Christian should Never be sick is to put those who are sick under condemnation and judgement...
Those of you who teach that Christians should never be sick or have any illness... Stop This False Teaching! You are HURTING People!!!!
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Psalm 119:104Through thy precepts I get understanding: therefore I hate every false way. 105Thy word is a lamp unto my feet, and a light unto my path.
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wparr
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posted
1 Peter 2:1-25
(1) Therefore, putting aside all malice and all deceit and hypocrisy and envy and all slander,
(2) like newborn babies, long for the pure milk of the word, so that by it you may grow in respect to salvation,
(3) if you have tasted the kindness of the Lord.
(4) And coming to Him as to a living stone which has been rejected by men, but is choice and precious in the sight of God,
(5) you also, as living stones, are being built up as a spiritual house for a holy priesthood, to offer up spiritual sacrifices acceptable to God through Jesus Christ.
(6) For this is contained in Scripture: "BEHOLD, I LAY IN ZION A CHOICE STONE, A PRECIOUS CORNER stone, AND HE WHO BELIEVES IN HIM WILL NOT BE DISAPPOINTED."
(7) This precious value, then, is for you who believe; but for those who disbelieve, "THE STONE WHICH THE BUILDERS REJECTED, THIS BECAME THE VERY CORNER stone,"
(8) and, "A STONE OF STUMBLING AND A ROCK OF OFFENSE"; for they stumble because they are disobedient to the word, and to this doom they were also appointed.
(9) But you are A CHOSEN RACE, A royal PRIESTHOOD, A HOLY NATION, A PEOPLE FOR God's OWN POSSESSION, so that you may proclaim the excellencies of Him who has called you out of darkness into His marvelous light;
(10) for you once were NOT A PEOPLE, but now you are THE PEOPLE OF GOD; you had NOT RECEIVED MERCY, but now you have RECEIVED MERCY.
(11) Beloved, I urge you as aliens and strangers to abstain from fleshly lusts which wage war against the soul.
(12) Keep your behavior excellent among the Gentiles, so that in the thing in which they slander you as evildoers, they may because of your good deeds, as they observe them, glorify God in the day of visitation.
(13) Submit yourselves for the Lord's sake to every human institution, whether to a king as the one in authority,
(14) or to governors as sent by him for the punishment of evildoers and the praise of those who do right.
(15) For such is the will of God that by doing right you may silence the ignorance of foolish men.
(16) Act as free men, and do not use your freedom as a covering for evil, but use it as bondslaves of God.
(17) Honor all people, love the brotherhood, fear God, honor the king.
(18) Servants, be submissive to your masters with all respect, not only to those who are good and gentle, but also to those who are unreasonable.
(19) For this finds favor, if for the sake of conscience toward God a person bears up under sorrows when suffering unjustly.
(20) For what credit is there if, when you sin and are harshly treated, you endure it with patience? But if when you do what is right and suffer for it you patiently endure it, this finds favor with God.
(21) For you have been called for this purpose, since Christ also suffered for you, leaving you an example for you to follow in His steps,
(22) WHO COMMITTED NO SIN, NOR WAS ANY DECEIT FOUND IN HIS MOUTH;
(23) and while being reviled, He did not revile in return; while suffering, He uttered no threats, but kept entrusting Himself to Him who judges righteously;
(24) and He Himself bore our sins in His body on the cross, so that we might die to sin and live to righteousness; for by His wounds you were healed.
(25) For you were continually straying like sheep, but now you have returned to the Shepherd and Guardian of your souls.
CONTEXT CONTEXT CONTEXT
Peter is talking about HOW we live as Christians
He is talking about SUBMISSION
He is talking about LIVING TO RIGHTEOUSNESS
NOWHERE in here is mentioned PHYSICAL healing
NOWHERE
That is taking the verse OUT OF CONTEXT - as soooo sooo many love to do.
This is ONE SENTENCE - read it as such
For you have been called for this purpose, since Christ also suffered for you, leaving you an example for you to follow in His steps,
WHO COMMITTED NO SIN, NOR WAS ANY DECEIT FOUND IN HIS MOUTH; and while being reviled, He did not revile in return; while suffering, He uttered no threats, but kept entrusting Himself to Him who judges righteously; and He Himself bore our sins in His body on the cross, so that we might die to sin and live to righteousness; for by His wounds you were healed.
YOU CAN NOT TAKE THAT IN CONTEXT AS PHYSICAL HEALING HERE
WRONG WRONG WRONG (and yes I DO beleive Jesus heals - but NOT with this verse)
What is the sentence following this?
For you were continually straying like sheep, but now you have returned to the Shepherd and Guardian of your souls.
CONTEXT CONTEXT CONTEXT
STOP TWISTING GOD'S WORD TO MAKE IT MEAN WHAT YOU WANT IT TO MEAN!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Posts: 1203 | From: Eagle Nest, NM | Registered: Jan 2003
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WhiteEagle
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posted
quote:
Originally posted by WildB:
Isa.53
1. [5] But he was wounded for our transgressions, he was bruised for our iniquities: the chastisement of our peace was upon him; and with his stripes we are healed.
is interpeted by Pete~
1Pet.2
1. [24] Who his own self bare our sins in his own body on the tree, that we, being dead to sins, should live unto righteousness: by whose stripes ye were healed.
The miss use of ISA 53.5 by Benny H and Joyce M to permote their healing programs is a false teaching that should not be followed.
My husband says you need to get saved and have a real born again experience and then you will know the Resurrection Power.
Posts: 1392 | From: Maine | Registered: Aug 2004
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WhiteEagle
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posted
quote:
Originally posted by WildB:
Isa.53
1. [5] But he was wounded for our transgressions, he was bruised for our iniquities: the chastisement of our peace was upon him; and with his stripes we are healed.
is interpeted by Pete~
1Pet.2
1. [24] Who his own self bare our sins in his own body on the tree, that we, being dead to sins, should live unto righteousness: by whose stripes ye were healed.
The miss use of ISA 53.5 by Benny H and Joyce M to permote their healing programs is a false teaching that should not be followed.
Peter seems to interpret Isaiah 53:5 the same way as Benny Hinn and Joyce Meyer. People were healed in Peter's shadow. That's how strong Jesus anointing was on him. People were mentally physically healed by Peter in Christ's power.
If you are saying the healing by Christ is a false teaching I suggest you reread the books of Matthew, Mark, Luke, and John and Acts.
Posts: 1392 | From: Maine | Registered: Aug 2004
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WildB
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Member # 2917
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posted
Isa.53
1. [5] But he was wounded for our transgressions, he was bruised for our iniquities: the chastisement of our peace was upon him; and with his stripes we are healed.
is interpeted by Pete~
1Pet.2
1. [24] Who his own self bare our sins in his own body on the tree, that we, being dead to sins, should live unto righteousness: by whose stripes ye were healed.
The miss use of ISA 53.5 by Benny H and Joyce M to permote their healing programs is a false teaching that should not be followed.
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That is all.....
Posts: 8775 | From: USA, MICHIGAN | Registered: Mar 2004
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helpforhomeschoolers
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posted
Isa 5:20 Woe unto them that call evil good, and good evil; that put darkness for light, and light for darkness; that put bitter for sweet, and sweet for bitter!
Ro 3:4 God forbid: yea, let God be true, but every man a liar; as it is written, That thou mightest be justified in thy sayings, and mightest overcome when thou art judged.
1Co 4:6 And these things, brethren, I have in a figure transferred to myself and to Apollos for your sakes; that ye might learn in us not to think of men above that which is written, that no one of you be puffed up for one against another.
Be careful indeed!
If on judgmment day I have to give account for error against a man in regard to this subject, then I only pray that God will have mercy on me for having a heart t hat feared HIM and believed his word and a flesh that was human. I think it better to have right heart in the spirit toward God and wrong action in the flesh against man than to have a heart in the flesh toward God and right actions toward man that were out of the flesh.
I dont know if that makes sense. I know people that are "good" and kind and sweet toward men at the same time that they mock god with their actions, mouths, lives, lifestyles etc... i would rather I think if I have to be in error be found to have errored in my thinking about men than my thinking about God or HIS word.
Posts: 4684 | From: Southern Black Hills of South Dakota | Registered: Jun 2002
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wparr
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HisGrace
I PROVED with his own voice that Benny Hinn is a false prophet - multiple times.
WHAT ARE YOU GOING TO DO?????
Follow God and His Truth
Or let your flesh be satisfied by deceiving spirits
BE VERY CAREFUL
Praying you do right by God.
Posts: 1203 | From: Eagle Nest, NM | Registered: Jan 2003
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SoftTouch
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Amen Sister Betty!
As I said before, the quotes I use in posts on these false teachers all have "Sources" attached to them and they can be Easily Verified (if one so desires to look into it). They are not lies.
Yes, we are to be careful and we are also to be Faithful to Gods word and to HIS Calling on our lives. The Bible tells us to Mark those who teach doctrines that Jesus and the Apostles did not teach and to have nothing to do with them. It also says to Expose (Reprove).
The Bible has So Much to say about False Teachers and those who would prophecy for 'gain.' These Scripture have been quoted so many times that I am amazed that they don't seem to have sunk in yet...
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Psalm 119:104Through thy precepts I get understanding: therefore I hate every false way. 105Thy word is a lamp unto my feet, and a light unto my path.
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TEXASGRANDMA
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yet, you come back time and time again, to complain about people who are doing God's work. Many Bible verses have been put here showing how Christians are to mark false Preachers and avoid them.
betty
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Luk 21:28 And when these things begin to come to pass, then look up, and lift up your heads; for your redemption draweth nigh.
http://www.indieheaven.com/artists/mm (son-in-law)http://www.myspace.com/mireles
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HisGrace
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I was poo-hooed for putting this message on another thread, but I will give one more warning. Obviously my words are falling on deaf ears, and I feel led to spend another season away from the 'Exposing False Teaching Forum.'
I have proven on different occasions that lies have been printed about some of these preachers.
Be careful not to buy into these lies. Is the devil deceiving you?
This material is being printed in massive numbers on this Board. Are people really using careful discretion when they press these buttons willy-nilly? This could be a very dangerous practise.
Proverbs 19:5
A false witness will not go unpunished, and he who pours out lies will not go free. ![[Cross]](graemlins/cross.gif)
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