|
Author
|
Topic: Examine the Word Faith Teachers
|
Inky
Community Member
Member # 5582
|
posted
Please forgive the grammar.
Acts 17:11 11These were more noble than those in Thessalonica, in that they received the word with all readiness of mind, and searched the scriptures daily, whether those things were so.
The only Word Faith testimony I saw was Light Torch. That doesn’t mean there isn’t others it was the only one I saw. I wanted to agree with Light Torch 100 percent on everything that was said in his/her post. I to have was once a member of Word Faith and everything Light Torch said is true. I will give my testimony of what I know of Word Faith too. But before I begin.
Recently I ran into someone online that I believe to be Word Faith who seems to have a huge following of innocents. This person wanted me to confess I did not have bipolar. Lie to world and tell them I did not have it. I knew right away this was Word Faith. I wondered if they knew exactly what Word Faith taught because that Faith is sneaky. It been around since 1963 and people still are not aware they believe they are “little gods.” So I thought I try to tell and I asked him if he was Word Faith and does he believe he is a “little god?” I asked two times point blank but each time I got no answer. I was told he did not want to argue. I understand not wanting to argue. But I believe that we have every right to know what a person believes who is sharing the “gospel” with us. Giving No answers is not good enough.
Now lets get into my testimony:
A few years ago I ended up in a Word Faith Church. At the time I did not know what that was. Nor did I know I was a member of one. It seemed pretty awesome at the time. On Wednesday they was teaching us Greek and Hebrew. At least I thought that was what we would be learning when we started going there. They actually only taught us 3 words Rhema, Logos, and Elohiym, now that I think about it. At the time I didn’t realize they was preparing us. So they can lead us up to believing we was “little gods” and to confessing what we want.
Definition:
Elohiym:0430: ~yhla
1. (Plural)
a. rulers, judges
b. divine ones
c. angels
d. gods
If I could remember the scripture they used I would post it here. But this is the Hebrew word they used to start our teachings to teach us that we were “little gods.” I do remember that in most translations of the bible the words that are actually used are "little judges." Word Faith does not believe little judges are suppose to be there but infact that the scripture should of said "little gods."
One thing to remember when “choosing “ a word a definition from a dictionary or different language is context. We would never be gods unless it was a title because we are humans not gods.
They take other examples from the bible to back this up too. These are true statements but unless you really have been taught right out what Word Faith believes they seem innocent enough. They talk about Image of God, but in the context they mean they are saying we were created like God in every aspect even as a god.
But if they just throw at you the statement in the “image of God” at you and you have no clue what they really believe then you are looking at it and saying to yourself that is the truth. But it is when they teach in secret what they really mean. They go back to Genesis 3:5- For God knows that when you eat of it your eyes will be opened, and you will be like God, knowing good and evil. They believe that at this time we were like gods and we handed over our god like authority to Satan. You think that they would notice that Satan was trying to deceive them into believing they would be like God if they took from the tree of Knowledge which is exactly what Word Faith is doing . Telling us if we get the formula right we will be like God. And why do they tell us this? Because they believe that the “end of times” would be fought in the Spirit. Is what they teach there for we need to be in the Spirit and that would make us like God. Which leads into confessing.
The first Adam lost our god like authority. They showed this through showing how God had given Adam dominion over everything. Now When The Second Adam Jesus Christ came and died for us we got our god like authority back. We were taught that we did not need to ask for God’s Will that that showed a lack of faith.
Revelation 13:1"And I stood upon the sand of the sea, and saw a beast rise up out of the sea, having seven heads and ten horns, and upon his horns ten crowns, and upon his heads the name of blasphemy."
Blasphemy Biblically Defined...
John 10:33"The Jews answered him, saying, For a good work we stone thee not; but for blasphemy; and because that thou, being a man, makest thyself God."
The scriptures they showed us to Confess what we want were all taken out of context. The main one I remember actually meant go spread the gospel it didn’t mean confess the word. But to prepare us for Confessing God’s Word they taught us that God was the Word and Jesus was made Flesh. You got to remember they use a lot of truths mixed with non-truths. So after showing us this in the bible, which is in the bible. That how they prepared us to speak God’s Word to get what we want. Our church prayer lines did not pray for people. They only had prayer lines to teach people to confess Gods Word to get what they wanted.I am not sure if I mention this already, but we were told that praying God's Will showed a lacked of faith and we were not to pray that. We were told that God didn’t want us to be poor. God didn’t want us to be sick. Etc. We never were told that trails were for teaching and so that we could mature and become better Christians. We were told if we said anything negative this could affect our positive confessions for what we want. We could not even make a joke. In everything they taught. They taught less prayer and more confessing.
For those who believe in the HOly Spirit and Gifts. Well the Gifts are shoved to the side. You can do all that for yourself now. More I think about it. The whole religion is about self and not about God if you get to the root of the believes of it.
Our Church also had a television program. They told us one day that they cut parts out of the video taping of the service because the world was not ready to hear the truth yet. On my last day at that Church we were told what we could and could not say about our Church. Actually word for word as to what our response should be if anyone asked us.
I have personally also heard Kenneth Copeland say on television on his program that we are "little gods" and I think I heard Creflo Dollar say the same thing. But I do know I heard Copeland for sure.
Posts: 16 | Registered: Mar 2006
| IP: Logged | 
|
|
hardcore
Advanced Member
Member # 4492
|
posted
quote:
Originally posted by wparr:
But you HONESTLY have to admitt, most of those that "name it and claim it" are doing that BEFORE truely seeking Yahweh's will.
THEY will it and "name it and claim it"
You're right. I've seen and heard it myself. They treat God likes He's a vending machine.
Posts: 627 | Registered: Mar 2005
| IP: Logged |
|
|
light torch
New Member
Member # 4330
|
posted
Hi All:
That is my point, we were claiming things without knowing God's will in the matter....and getting our wishes sometimes to our later horror.
God Bless
Posts: 5 | From: ny | Registered: Jan 2005
| IP: Logged |
|
|
wparr
Advanced Member
Member # 891
|
posted
But you HONESTLY have to admitt, most of those that "name it and claim it" are doing that BEFORE truely seeking Yahweh's will.
THEY will it and "name it and claim it"
Posts: 1203 | From: Eagle Nest, NM | Registered: Jan 2003
| IP: Logged |
|
|
HisGrace
unregistered
|
posted
quote:
Originally posted by light torch:
Claiming a female for your wife without knowing God's will in this matter is dangerous even covetous or asking God to be a successful lawyer when God purpose for you his to be a doctor. Or expecting God to give you a million dollars without sowing and nurturing that hope with work and prayer.
Don't you find that statment a bit rash? God doesn't operate a drive-thru. I have learned that you have to find out for certain the will of God in your life and then you can name it and claim it. Even if you claim it, that doesn't mean it will immediately fall from the sky - you have to wait for God's perfect timing, and probably will have to go through some, or many, trials first.
IP: Logged |
|
|
light torch
New Member
Member # 4330
|
posted
Greetings All:
I havent posted in ages, but I just want to say my piece in peace , I too have the Holy Spirit.
The prosperity preaching, name it and claim it and ye are gods ministry alot of times were unbalanced preaching which in my case caused me some damage.
Because I use to believe I shouldnt be going through any difficulty for too long and I was so much more important than other people.
The truth is any message or preaching that is not centered on Christ missed the mark.
My truths
Prosperity is a by product/a result of/incidental to the Christ message but it should not be the message itself.
You will be sons of God if you have God in you and you in God - you can only be led if you are filled with the spirit and has many are led by the Spirit have they become the sons of God. Notice you are not God of yourself but you become a vehicle/representative for the one God.
Name it and claim it can only work if you know God rhema word and the written logus word if not you are approaching witchcraft. Claiming a female for your wife without knowing God's will in this matter is dangerous even covetous or asking God to be a successful lawyer when God purpose for you his to be a doctor. Or expecting God to give you a million dollars without sowing and nurturing that hope with work and prayer.
Another important point is that it is Jesus Christ that gives us faith not words read in a book. Some people therefore will have faith in words they tend to exhibit a kind of coldness and a clinical approach to their belief. but they can only go so far. Jesus said the scripture points to me but they wont come to him to be free and that the letter kills but the spirit gives life. So the focus must be Jesus and not scripts.
God bless you all.
Posts: 5 | From: ny | Registered: Jan 2005
| IP: Logged |
|
|
becauseHElives
Advanced Member
Member # 87
|
posted
quote:
WhiteEagle, I personally like the idea of submssion being MY CHOICE.
Everything concerning obedience is by choice.
quote:
WhiteEagle, Should women dress as the Muslim women do?
You mentioned the Muslim dress. It is the accepted thinking of the Apostate Church that has went from one extreme to the other.
--------------------
Strive to enter in at the strait gate:for many, I say unto you will seek to enter in, and shall not be able. ( Luke 13:24 )
Posts: 4578 | From: Southeast Texas | Registered: Jun 2002
| IP: Logged |
|
|
WhiteEagle
Advanced Member
Member # 3728
|
posted
BecauseHelives:
You're article about submission is something I CAN agree with.
The problem as the article states is women being forced into submission by the church, society and their own fathers and or husbands.
I personally like the idea of submssion being MY CHOICE.
Their are styles of dressing inbetween the prositute and Muslim women's total body and face covering.
Why do you go to such extremes on dress from one end of the spectrum to the other?
Posts: 1392 | From: Maine | Registered: Aug 2004
| IP: Logged |
|
|
Pleasemaranatha
Advanced Member
Member # 5150
|
posted
Hardcore wrote:
To clarify; we judge their words, not the person. Big difference.
As has been stated many times; they don't need us to condemn them, they do it to themselves. We are not to tolerate teaching contrary to scripture, let alone defend it.
I can't speak for anyone else, but I certainly don't go to bed angry.
I'm really not sure if I would consider a false teacher an enemy. I've never thought of it in those terms.
If they preach contrary to God's Word, does that make them an enemy of God? If they are an enemy of God, are they my enemy?
(from me:)
I am glad you don't go to bed angry. ![[Smile]](smile.gif)
But, if they are your enemies shouldn't you bless them, do good to them, and pray for them?
Passage Matthew 5:44-45:
44But I say unto you, Love your enemies, bless them that curse you, do good to them that hate you, and pray for them which despitefully use you, and persecute you;
45That ye may be the children of your Father which is in heaven: for he maketh his sun to rise on the evil and on the good, and sendeth rain on the just and on the unjust.
--------------------
My soul waiteth for the Lord more than they that watch for the morning. Psalms 130 verse 6
Joyce
Posts: 308 | From: Missouri | Registered: Oct 2005
| IP: Logged |
|
|
HisGrace
unregistered
|
posted
quote:
Originally posted by hardcore:
Regarding women being silent in the church:
I also agree with bHl.
White Eagle - I think your reasoning, although valid from the world's point of view, is just that; a world view based on man's reasoning, not scripture.
I happen to agree with WhiteEagle. I find that people sometimes love to take a scripture out of context and run with it without doing any research.
1 Cor. 14: 34
Women should be silent during the church meetings. It is not proper for them to speak.
1 Cor. 14:1-4 also says : Follow the way of love and eagerly desire spiritual gifts, especially the gift of prophecy. For anyone who speaks in a tongues does not speak to men but to God. Indeed, no one understands him; he utters mysteries with his spirit.
But everyone who prophesies speaks to men for their strengthening, encouragement and comfort. He who speaks in a tongue edifies himself, but he who prophesies edifies the church.
Before someone comes along and tries to dissect this scripture by showing us that it says 'he', please notice that it also says 'does not speak to men',and also 'speaks to men' which means everyone. The male gender is used when speaking universally to all 'mankind'
~Women also prophesied and Paul had women helping him in strong stewardship roles. He took Priscilla, along with her husband Aquila, around to different countries preaching with him.
These are scriptures where women were mentioned as being strong and in leadship positions.
Acts 2:17
Speaking of the last days - In those days, I will pour out my Spirit upon all my servants, men and women alike, and they will prophesy.
Judges 4:4
Deborah, the wife of Lappidoth, was a prophetess, who had become a judge in Israel.
Luke 2:36 Ann, a prophetess, was also in the Temple.
(other prophetesses are also in mentioned in the Bible)
Romans 16:1
Our sister Phoebe, a deaconess in the church in Cenchrea, will be coming to see you soon.
Romans 16:2 - Paul said -
Greetings Priscilla and Aquilla. They have been co-workers in my ministry for Christ Jesus.
Philippians 4:2,3 Paul also said -
And now I want to plead with those two women, Euodia and Syntyche. Please, because you belong to the the Lord, settle your disagreement. And I ask you, my true teammates, to help these women, for they worked hard with me in telling others the Good News.
Romans 16:6 Paul once again -
Greet Mary, who worked very hard for you. (Probably Martha's sister).
IP: Logged |
|
|
hardcore
Advanced Member
Member # 4492
|
posted
quote:
Originally posted by Pleasemaranatha:
I just hope that wparr you and all pray for the people you judge as false prophets. I hope you or others that post against ministers don't go to bed angry.
It will hinder your growth. Anger is very harmful.
Love covers a multitude of sins. Pray for hinn and any you accuse. Lift them up to God in prayer. God says to pray for our enemies and LOVE them. (I guess they are your enemies.)
To clarify; we judge their words, not the person. Big difference.
As has been stated many times; they don't need us to condemn them, they do it to themselves. We are not to tolerate teaching contrary to scripture, let alone defend it.
I can't speak for anyone else, but I certainly don't go to bed angry.
I'm really not sure if I would consider a false teacher an enemy. I've never thought of it in those terms.
If they preach contrary to God's Word, does that make them an enemy of God? If they are an enemy of God, are they my enemy?
Posts: 627 | Registered: Mar 2005
| IP: Logged |
|
|
hardcore
Advanced Member
Member # 4492
|
posted
Although it is probably an unpopular stance to take, I agree with becauseHelives on everything in his post as far as I can tell.
Regarding Forgiveness:
We don't forgive false teachers for teaching contrary to scripture when they continue to do so. We mark them and avoid them as scripture states. If they repent and ask for forgiveness; that's an entirely different situation.
Regarding Grace:
I like the definition given and agree with bHl's assessment.
Regarding Submission:
Again, I agree with the article and bHl. It's not about a woman "bowing down to her husband" or "being relegated as second class citizens". It's about obedience to God's Word.
The scripture doesn't say wives submit to your husbands if you feel like it or if your husband is behaving the way you think he should behave.
It says:
"Wives, submit yourselves unto your own husbands, as unto the Lord"- Eph 5:22.
"For the husband is the head of the wife, even as Christ is the head of the church: and he is the saviour of the body" - Eph 5:23
"Therefore as the church is subject unto Christ, so [let] the wives [be] to their own husbands in every thing" - Eph 5:24
Wives who struggle with this are struggling with their own flesh - pride probably being the number one culprit. I know, because I am one of them. I am a stubborn, strong-willed, strongly opinionated, loud-mouthed Sicilian who likes to get her own way. BUT - the scripture still says what it says, and I must learn to obey - in submission first to my Lord, and second to my husband.
I happen to be very blessed with a husband who also understands his part - to love me as Christ also loved the Church (Eph 5:25). He is far more patient, kind and loving than I will ever deserve. Of course we know that what I "deserve" is a one-way ticket south (there's your Grace).
The article is right. God's way does work best.
Actually, I just found something in the article that I don't agree with. I understand the point the author is making, but don't agree. The author says:
"On the other hand, a woman will do anything for a man who loves her like Christ loves the church. Submission is easy under these conditions. I know a number of women who are married to unbelieving husbands and who have no problem submitting to their husbands, because in each case the husband loves his wife like Christ loves the church, even though he doesn’t even know Christ."
I do not think that an unbeliever is capable of loving anyone the way Christ loves the church. We can't even comprehend God's love. How can one who doesn't know Christ?
Regarding women being silent in the church:
I also agree with bHl.
White Eagle - I think your reasoning, although valid from the world's point of view, is just that; a world view based on man's reasoning, not scripture.
Posts: 627 | Registered: Mar 2005
| IP: Logged |
|
|
HisGrace
unregistered
|
posted
quote:
Originally posted by Pleasemaranatha:
I just hope that wparr you and all pray for the people you judge as false prophets. I hope you or others that post against ministers don't go to bed angry.
It will hinder your growth. Anger is very harmful.
Love covers a multitude of sins. Pray for hinn and any you accuse. Lift them up to God in prayer. God says to pray for our enemies and LOVE them. (I guess they are your enemies.)
Amen Joyce! We must always ask ourselves - Are we showing the fruit of the spirit?
Gal 5:22,23 But when the Holy Spirit controls our lives, he will produce this kind of fruit in us: love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, gentleness, and self-control. Here there is no conflict with the law
IP: Logged |
|
|
Pleasemaranatha
Advanced Member
Member # 5150
|
posted
I just hope that wparr you and all pray for the people you judge as false prophets. I hope you or others that post against ministers don't go to bed angry.
It will hinder your growth. Anger is very harmful.
Love covers a multitude of sins. Pray for hinn and any you accuse. Lift them up to God in prayer. God says to pray for our enemies and LOVE them. (I guess they are your enemies.)
--------------------
My soul waiteth for the Lord more than they that watch for the morning. Psalms 130 verse 6
Joyce
Posts: 308 | From: Missouri | Registered: Oct 2005
| IP: Logged |
|
|
wparr
Advanced Member
Member # 891
|
posted
I pray for the deceived that listen to hinn, because God's Word is CLEAR we shouldn't.
But as far a hinn himself
As I showed in my previous post,
and this (among others)
2 Peter 2:1-3
(1) But false prophets also arose among the people, just as there will also be false teachers among you, who will secretly introduce destructive heresies, even denying the Master who bought them, bringing swift destruction upon themselves.
(2) Many will follow their sensuality, and because of them the way of the truth will be maligned;
(3) and in their greed they will exploit you with false words; their judgment from long ago is not idle, and their destruction is not asleep.
That it is to late to pray for them. ![[BooHoo]](graemlins/boohoo.gif)
But wouldn't it be AWESOME if hinn stood up PUBLICLY, before the many cameras he owns, and REPRENTED, saying he was wrong and his teachings and works were NOT from Yahweh Elohim ![[hyper]](graemlins/hyper.gif)
What a day of rejoicing that would be ![[clap2]](graemlins/clap2.gif)
Posts: 1203 | From: Eagle Nest, NM | Registered: Jan 2003
| IP: Logged |
|
|
becauseHElives
Advanced Member
Member # 87
|
posted
First to respond to the forgiveness issue…Those that will not forgive will, will not be forgiven and with the same measure an individual forgives the same measure will be meet back. That is plain teaching from Scripture.
But if you are trying to say forgive and let the “ false teacher, heretic or antichrist” continue without exposing, marking and shunning, the scriptures teach to such thing.
Now I beseech you, brethren, mark them which cause divisions and offences contrary to the doctrine which ye have learned; and avoid them. (KJV Romans 16:17)
Brethren, be followers together of me, and mark them which walk so as ye have us for an ensample. (KJV Philippians 3:17)
quote:
Is your church under the Law or under Grace?
WhiteEagle, we live under “Grace”….
Eph 2:8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: [it is] the gift of God:
But let us define this word “Grace” that is so misused in the Church today.
Grace that which affords joy, pleasure, delight, sweetness, charm, loveliness: grace of speech good will, loving-kindness, favour of the merciful kindness by which God, exerting his holy influence upon souls, turns them to Christ, keeps, strengthens, increases them in Christian faith, knowledge, affection, and kindles them to the exercise of the Christian virtues. What is due to grace is the spiritual condition of one governed by the power of divine grace.
The above definition may be found at…
http://www.blueletterbible.org/tmp_dir/words/5/1142690986-8057.html
True “Grace” changes the heart of an individual, as Jeremiah 31:33 teaches us.
“Grace” is not just God’s unmerited favour as many would try to say. (It is that, but much more)
quote:
Should women dress as the Muslim women do?
It would be better to dress like a Muslim, than to dress like a prostitute. The Muslim dress at lest shows modesty.
quote:
Should women bow down before their men's wishes?
How a Husband Should Handle His Wife's Submission
By Stormie Omartian
Submit is a verb. Submitting is a voluntary action. That means it is something we ourselves do. It’s not something we make someone else do. Just as we can’t force another person to love us, we can’t force someone to submit to us either. Of course we can make that person do what we want. But then that’s not true submission.
Submission is a choice we make. It’s something each one of us must decide to do. And this decision happens first in the heart. If we don’t decide in our hearts that we are going to willingly submit to whomever it is we need to be submitted to, then we are not truly submitting.
This may be shocking news to you, but an overwhelming majority of wives in my survey said they want to submit to their husbands. They want their husbands to be the head of the home, and they have no desire to usurp that God-given position of leadership. They know what the Bible says on the subject, and discerning wives want to do what God wants because they understand that God’s ways work best.
However, problems often arise in this area because a wife is afraid to submit to her husband for two reasons:
Reason #1: Her husband thinks submission is only a noun, and he uses it as a weapon.
Reason #2: Her husband has himself not made the choice in his heart to be fully submitted to God.
Okay, okay! I know that God did not say a wife needs to submit to her husband only if he proves to be worthy. Submission is a matter of trusting in God more than trusting in man. But a wife will more easily make the choice to submit to her husband if she knows that he has made the choice to submit to the Lord. It will be a sign to her that it is safe to submit to him. And the goal here is to help her, not force her, into proper alignment.
Many a wife has a hard time trusting that her husband is hearing from God if he doesn’t appear to be submitted to God in the way he treats her. Wives know that after the verse “Wives, submit to your own husbands” (Ephesians 5:22), the Bible says “Husbands, love your wives, just as Christ also loved the church and gave Himself for her” (verse 25). Christ doesn’t neglect, ignore, demean or abuse the church. He doesn’t treat her rudely or disrespectfully. He never acts arrogantly or insensitively toward her. Nor does He criticize her and make her feel she is not valuable. Rather He loves her, protects her, provides for her, and cares for her. So while God gives the husband a position of leadership in relationship to his wife, He also requires the price of self-sacrifice from him.
When Wives Hold Back
The big question in many women’s minds is, “If I submit myself to my husband, will I become a doormat for him to walk on?” The answer to that question depends entirely upon whether her husband believes he should love his wife like Christ loves the church and willingly sacrifices himself for her — or thinks that submission is a noun and that it is something owed him. In other words, does he only consider his desires and opinions, to the exclusion of hers?
A wife has a hard time giving her husband the reins to her life if she doesn’t believe she can trust him to have her best interests at heart as he steers the course of their lives together. She has trouble going along with his decisions when he refuses to consider her thoughts, feelings, and insights on the subject. And if she has submitted to a male in the past and her trust was violated in some way, it is even more difficult for her to trust now.
On the other hand, a woman will do anything for a man who loves her like Christ loves the church. Submission is easy under these conditions. I know a number of women who are married to unbelieving husbands and who have no problem submitting to their husbands, because in each case the husband loves his wife like Christ loves the church, even though he doesn’t even know Christ.
Too often people confuse “submit” with “obey.” But they are not the same thing. The Bible gives commands about obeying other people only in regard to children and slaves, and in the context of the local church. “Children, obey your parents in the Lord, for this is right” (Ephesians 6:1). "Bondservants, be obedient to those who are your masters according to the flesh” (Ephesians 6:5). “Obey those who rule over you, and be submissive, for they watch out for your souls, as those who must give account” (Hebrews 13:17). Since a wife is neither her husband’s child nor his servant, and the local church isn’t part of a marriage, the word “obey” has no application to the relationship between a husband and a wife.
Submission means “to submit yourself.” In light of that, when a husband demands submission from his wife, it is no longer true submission. And his demands can become intimidating and oppressive, which breeds resentment. When a husband is more interested in his wife’s submission to him than he is in his own submission to God, then submission becomes a tool to hurt and destroy.
I have seen too many marriages between strong Christian people — high-profile Christian leaders, in fact — end in divorce because the husband demanded submission and resorted to verbal or physical abuse in order to get it. My husband has even counseled men like that, men who refused to hear that losing their family was a horrible price to pay for being “right.” How much better it would have been for the husband to submit himself to God’s hand and then pray for his wife to be able to come into proper order. This kind of situation occurs far too often.
When we submit to God, He doesn’t suppress who we are. He frees us to become who we’re made to be, within the boundaries of His protection. When a wife submits to her husband, she comes under his covering and protection, and this frees her to become all God created her to be. And trust me, you want that for your wife. Her greatest gifts will prove to be your greatest blessing.
If you feel that your wife is not submissive, pray for her to have a submissive heart, first toward God and then toward you. Then ask God to help you love her the way He does. I guarantee that you will see her submission level rise in direct proportion to the unselfish love you exhibit for her. And let her see that you are seeking God for guidance. If she knows that you are asking God to show you the way, she will follow you anywhere.
Please pray for your wife that:
She will understand what submission really is.
She will be able to submit in the way God wants her to.
You will be completely submitted to God.
She will trust God as He works in you.
You will take your position as spiritual leader.
She will trust you to be the head of the family.
Submission will not be a point of contention in your marriage.
PRAYER POWER
Lord, I submit myself to You this day. Lead me as I lead my family. Help me to make all decisions based on Your revelation and guidance. As I submit my leadership to You, enable (wife’s name) to fully trust that You are leading me. Help her to understand the kind of submission You want from her. Help me to understand the kind of submission You want from me. Enable me to be the leader You want me to be.
Where there are issues over which we disagree, help us to settle them in proper order. I pray that I will allow You, Lord, to be so in control of my life that my wife will be able to freely trust Your Holy Spirit working in me. Help me to love her the way You love me, so that I will gain her complete respect and love. Give her a submissive heart and the faith she needs to trust me to be the spiritual leader in our home. At the same time, help us to submit “to one another in the fear of God” (Ephesians 5:21). I know that only You, Lord, can make that perfect balance happen in our lives.
quote:
Should women be relegated as second class citizens?
There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither bond nor free, there is neither male nor female: for ye are all one in Christ Jesus. (KJV)
In the Kingdom of Yahweh there are no second class citizens, but in the Government of the Church Yahweh has declared Yeshua is over man, man is over the women and the Yahweh is over Yeshua.
quote:
My point? I guess I see that Paul was addressing the natural reality of the nature of men and women in those verses. They do not mean women have to be subservient in a slave-like way or only speak when ALLOWED TO SPEAK BY A MAN.
Your point is wrong, the point is a woman in the Church may only speak when she is under the authority of a man, be it her husband, dad, a pastor or some other recognized authority over her life.
I did not say it Yahweh did!
--------------------
Strive to enter in at the strait gate:for many, I say unto you will seek to enter in, and shall not be able. ( Luke 13:24 )
Posts: 4578 | From: Southeast Texas | Registered: Jun 2002
| IP: Logged |
|
|
HisGrace
unregistered
|
posted
quote:
Originally posted by WhiteEagle:
Yes Paul did instruct the Corinthians about order and for "the women" TO KEEP SILENCE.
God created women to be more verbal and socially interactive then men. On an average, an average women ratttles off 5000 words whereas a man may only spit out 100.
Women frequently are just bubbling over with verbage, and yes we need to get a little wisdom and discipline. Men aren't as wordy as woman.
![[Big Grin]](biggrin.gif) It is a pity that Paul didn't have duct tape back then
IP: Logged |
|
|
WhiteEagle
Advanced Member
Member # 3728
|
posted
quote:
Originally posted by Pleasemaranatha:
Dear Father please forgive everyone that sins against you. Help us forgive others 70 time 7 a day. Help us have compassion for all with forgiveness. Encourage all to pray for the misguided and not hold any anger in our hearts when we lay down to sleep. Thanks and amen.
Amen! Forgiveness is not a feeling, but a decision.
Posts: 1392 | From: Maine | Registered: Aug 2004
| IP: Logged |
|
|
WhiteEagle
Advanced Member
Member # 3728
|
posted
BecauseHelives:
Should women dress as the Muslim women do?
Should women bow down before their men's wishes?
Should women be relagated as second class citizens?
Yes Paul did instruct the Corinthians about order and for "the women" TO KEEP SILENCE.
God created women to be more verbal and socially interactive then men. On an average, an average women ratttles off 5000 words whereas a man may only spit out 100.
Women frequently are just bubbling over with verbage, and yes we need to get a little wisdom and discipline. Men aren't as wordy as woman.
So there you have the conflict. Men never explain things out enough for the satisfaction of women.
God already knew this, as He created man and woman.
My point? I guess I see that Paul was addressing the natural reality of the nature of men and women in those verses. They do not mean women have to be subservient in a slave-like way or only speak when ALLOWED TO SPEAK BY A MAN.
Posts: 1392 | From: Maine | Registered: Aug 2004
| IP: Logged |
|
|
WhiteEagle
Advanced Member
Member # 3728
|
posted
quote:
Originally posted by becauseHElives:
quote:
WhiteEagle - I suggest we go to any random church supper, and I'm sure we will find the mother lode of "cackling women"
I suggest we return to Scripture!
I do not go to any Church that allows women to cackle, the Scriputures say let everything be done decent and in order.
"As in all the churches of the saints, the women should keep silence in the churches. For they are not permitted to speak, but should be subordinate, as even the law says. If there is anything they desire to know, let them ask their husbands at home. For it is shameful for a woman to speak in church. What! Did the word of God originate with you, or are you the only ones it has reached? If any one thinks that he is a prophet, or spiritual, he should acknowledge that what I am writing to you is a command of the Lord. If any one does not recognize this, he is not recognized" (1 Corinthians 14:33-38).
SIGH! Somehow it doesn't surprise me that you take these verses to the extreme literally.
Is your church under the Law or under Grace?
Any church that oppresses women into a subservient role, just for the sake of "law" is not functioning in LOVE which is the Highest Commandment.
Posts: 1392 | From: Maine | Registered: Aug 2004
| IP: Logged |
|
|
WhiteEagle
Advanced Member
Member # 3728
|
posted
quote:
Originally posted by wparr:
Benny Hinn condems himself with his PROVEN words of false prophecy
That FACT alone makes EVERYTHING else of hinn NOT OF GOD
I don't hate hinn, I hate how he deceives so many of faith and money, but I pity hinn
I don't belive God's Word shows a place for the false prophets like hinn to repent
It's NOT a pretty picture
Matthew 7:22-23
(22) "Many will say to Me on that day, 'Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in Your name, and in Your name cast out demons, and in Your name perform many miracles?'
(23) "And then I will declare to them, 'I never knew you; DEPART FROM ME, YOU WHO PRACTICE LAWLESSNESS.'
Just because they CLAIM to be carrying the "Jesus" banner does not mean anything.
False prophets ARE DAMNED
Aren't we all DAMMED, WITHOUT CHRIST?
Aren't we to pray for those who are deceived?
Pity doesn't cut it.
Posts: 1392 | From: Maine | Registered: Aug 2004
| IP: Logged |
|
|
Pleasemaranatha
Advanced Member
Member # 5150
|
posted
Dear Father please forgive everyone that sins against you. Help us forgive others 70 time 7 a day. Help us have compassion for all with forgiveness. Encourage all to pray for the misguided and not hold any anger in our hearts when we lay down to sleep. Thanks and amen.
--------------------
My soul waiteth for the Lord more than they that watch for the morning. Psalms 130 verse 6
Joyce
Posts: 308 | From: Missouri | Registered: Oct 2005
| IP: Logged |
|
|
wparr
Advanced Member
Member # 891
|
posted
Benny Hinn condems himself with his PROVEN words of false prophecy
That FACT alone makes EVERYTHING else of hinn NOT OF GOD
Jeremiah 23:1-40
(1) "Woe to the shepherds who are destroying and scattering the sheep of My pasture!" declares the LORD.
(2) Therefore thus says the LORD God of Israel concerning the shepherds who are tending My people: "You have scattered My flock and driven them away, and have not attended to them; behold, I am about to attend to you for the evil of your deeds," declares the LORD.
(3) "Then I Myself will gather the remnant of My flock out of all the countries where I have driven them and bring them back to their pasture, and they will be fruitful and multiply.
(4) "I will also raise up shepherds over them and they will tend them; and they will not be afraid any longer, nor be terrified, nor will any be missing," declares the LORD.
(5) "Behold, the days are coming," declares the LORD, "When I will raise up for David a righteous Branch; And He will reign as king and act wisely And do justice and righteousness in the land.
(6) "In His days Judah will be saved, And Israel will dwell securely; And this is His name by which He will be called, 'The LORD our righteousness.'
(7) "Therefore behold, the days are coming," declares the LORD, "when they will no longer say, 'As the LORD lives, who brought up the sons of Israel from the land of Egypt,'
(8) but, 'As the LORD lives, who brought up and led back the descendants of the household of Israel from the north land and from all the countries where I had driven them.' Then they will live on their own soil."
(9) As for the prophets: My heart is broken within me, All my bones tremble; I have become like a drunken man, Even like a man overcome with wine, Because of the LORD And because of His holy words.
(10) For the land is full of adulterers; For the land mourns because of the curse. The pastures of the wilderness have dried up. Their course also is evil And their might is not right.
(11) "For both prophet and priest are polluted; Even in My house I have found their wickedness," declares the LORD.
(12) "Therefore their way will be like slippery paths to them, They will be driven away into the gloom and fall down in it; For I will bring calamity upon them, The year of their punishment," declares the LORD.
(13) "Moreover, among the prophets of Samaria I saw an offensive thing: They prophesied by Baal and led My people Israel astray.
(14) "Also among the prophets of Jerusalem I have seen a horrible thing: The committing of adultery and walking in falsehood; And they strengthen the hands of evildoers, So that no one has turned back from his wickedness. All of them have become to Me like Sodom, And her inhabitants like Gomorrah.
(15) "Therefore thus says the LORD of hosts concerning the prophets, 'Behold, I am going to feed them wormwood And make them drink poisonous water, For from the prophets of Jerusalem Pollution has gone forth into all the land.'"
(16) Thus says the LORD of hosts, "Do not listen to the words of the prophets who are prophesying to you. They are leading you into futility; They speak a vision of their own imagination, Not from the mouth of the LORD.
(17) "They keep saying to those who despise Me, 'The LORD has said, "You will have peace"'; And as for everyone who walks in the stubbornness of his own heart, They say, 'Calamity will not come upon you.'
(18) "But who has stood in the council of the LORD, That he should see and hear His word? Who has given heed to His word and listened?
(19) "Behold, the storm of the LORD has gone forth in wrath, Even a whirling tempest; It will swirl down on the head of the wicked.
(20) "The anger of the LORD will not turn back Until He has performed and carried out the purposes of His heart; In the last days you will clearly understand it.
(21) "I did not send these prophets, But they ran. I did not speak to them, But they prophesied.
(22) "But if they had stood in My council, Then they would have announced My words to My people, And would have turned them back from their evil way And from the evil of their deeds.
(23) "Am I a God who is near," declares the LORD, "And not a God far off?
(24) "Can a man hide himself in hiding places So I do not see him?" declares the LORD. "Do I not fill the heavens and the earth?" declares the LORD.
(25) "I have heard what the prophets have said who prophesy falsely in My name, saying, 'I had a dream, I had a dream!'
(26) "How long? Is there anything in the hearts of the prophets who prophesy falsehood, even these prophets of the deception of their own heart,
(27) who intend to make My people forget My name by their dreams which they relate to one another, just as their fathers forgot My name because of Baal?
(28) "The prophet who has a dream may relate his dream, but let him who has My word speak My word in truth. What does straw have in common with grain?" declares the LORD.
(29) "Is not My word like fire?" declares the LORD, "and like a hammer which shatters a rock?
(30) "Therefore behold, I am against the prophets," declares the LORD, "who steal My words from each other.
(31) "Behold, I am against the prophets," declares the LORD, "who use their tongues and declare, 'The Lord declares.'
(32) "Behold, I am against those who have prophesied false dreams," declares the LORD, "and related them and led My people astray by their falsehoods and reckless boasting; yet I did not send them or command them, nor do they furnish this people the slightest benefit," declares the LORD.
(33) "Now when this people or the prophet or a priest asks you saying, 'What is the oracle of the LORD?' then you shall say to them, 'What oracle?' The LORD declares, 'I will abandon you.'
(34) "Then as for the prophet or the priest or the people who say, 'The oracle of the LORD,' I will bring punishment upon that man and his household.
(35) "Thus will each of you say to his neighbor and to his brother, 'What has the LORD answered?' or, 'What has the LORD spoken?'
(36) "For you will no longer remember the oracle of the LORD, because every man's own word will become the oracle, and you have perverted the words of the living God, the LORD of hosts, our God.
(37) "Thus you will say to that prophet, 'What has the LORD answered you?' and, 'What has the LORD spoken?'
(38) "For if you say, 'The oracle of the LORD!' surely thus says the LORD, 'Because you said this word, "The oracle of the LORD!" I have also sent to you, saying, "You shall not say, 'The oracle of the LORD!'"'
(39) "Therefore behold, I will surely forget you and cast you away from My presence, along with the city which I gave you and your fathers.
(40) "I will put an everlasting reproach on you and an everlasting humiliation which will not be forgotten."
I don't hate hinn, I hate how he deceives so many of faith and money, but I pity hinn
I don't belive God's Word shows a place for the false prophets like hinn to repent
It's NOT a pretty picture
Matthew 7:22-23
(22) "Many will say to Me on that day, 'Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in Your name, and in Your name cast out demons, and in Your name perform many miracles?'
(23) "And then I will declare to them, 'I never knew you; DEPART FROM ME, YOU WHO PRACTICE LAWLESSNESS.'
Just because they CLAIM to be carrying the "Jesus" banner does not mean anything.
False prophets ARE DAMNED
Posts: 1203 | From: Eagle Nest, NM | Registered: Jan 2003
| IP: Logged |
|
|
SoftTouch
Advanced Member
Member # 2316
|
posted
quote:
Originally posted by hardcore:
Well, like I said; that particular "weapon" isn't necessary. They condemn themselves with their own words and actions.
Amen Sis!
--------------------
Psalm 119:104Through thy precepts I get understanding: therefore I hate every false way. 105Thy word is a lamp unto my feet, and a light unto my path.
Posts: 3465 | Registered: Nov 2003
| IP: Logged |
|
|
hardcore
Advanced Member
Member # 4492
|
posted
quote:
Originally posted by HisGrace:
quote:
Originally posted by hardcore:
quote:
Originally posted by HisGrace:
The video of the cackling woman, to which I have referred, definitely has been doctored. It is obvious that it is a hoax.
No disrespect intended, but I think this is a big fat DUH.
You keep mentioning this as if anyone here actually believes it to be true. It has nothing to do with the fact that certain televangelists, who you defend, teach doctrine contrary to scripture.
Sorry, but it was introduced on the Exposing forum as a weapon against the televanagelists.
Well, like I said; that particular "weapon" isn't necessary. They condemn themselves with their own words and actions.
Posts: 627 | Registered: Mar 2005
| IP: Logged |
|
|
HisGrace
unregistered
|
posted
quote:
Originally posted by hardcore:
quote:
Originally posted by HisGrace:
The video of the cackling woman, to which I have referred, definitely has been doctored. It is obvious that it is a hoax.
No disrespect intended, but I think this is a big fat DUH.
You keep mentioning this as if anyone here actually believes it to be true. It has nothing to do with the fact that certain televangelists, who you defend, teach doctrine contrary to scripture.
Sorry, but it was introduced on the Exposing forum as a weapon against the televanagelists.
IP: Logged |
|
|
hardcore
Advanced Member
Member # 4492
|
posted
quote:
Originally posted by HisGrace:
The video of the cackling woman, to which I have referred, definitely has been doctored. It is obvious that it is a hoax.
No disrespect intended, but I think this is a big fat DUH.
You keep mentioning this as if anyone here actually believes it to be true. It has nothing to do with the fact that certain televangelists, who you defend, teach doctrine contrary to scripture.
It is unfortunate that someone somewhere thought it necessary to alter video in order to prove a certain teacher false, but a silly doctored video doesn't change the facts. Those teachers condemn themselves with their own words and actions.
Posts: 627 | Registered: Mar 2005
| IP: Logged |
|
|
HisGrace
unregistered
|
posted
quote:
Originally posted by WhiteEagle:
In context I wrote that to point out that when the Holy Spirit is convicting people, some people will leave in the middle of a service. And for various other reasons also. I wasn't trying to impinge on free will, as that wasn't the context of my post. I wasn't trying to say that they aren't allowed to leaven anytime. Only pointing out how the Holy Spirit's wooing affect us at times. It's a spiritual battle.
MY point was, since I have personally experienced this wanting to leave syndrome myself. If one is influenced by the Lies of the Enemy in one's mind (and Christians are subject to this) If someone is preaching the Word, one will have a conflict in one's spirit as the enemy struggles against us receiving the WORD.
That's what I kind of mean. When God's Word goes forth, demons are stirred up in the people who are in bondage to their lies.
I have personally seen someone turn on their heels and leave the church because of heavy conviction.
Eph. 6:12 For we wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this world, against spiritual wickedness in high places.
~Do the math folks.
From becauseHeLives " I do not go to any Church that allows women to cackle, the Scriputures say let everything be done decent and in order."
The video of the cackling woman, to which I have referred, definitely has been doctored. It is obvious that it is a hoax.
IP: Logged |
|
|
becauseHElives
Advanced Member
Member # 87
|
posted
quote:
WhiteEagle - I suggest we go to any random church supper, and I'm sure we will find the mother lode of "cackling women"
I suggest we return to Scripture!
I do not go to any Church that allows women to cackle, the Scriputures say let everything be done decent and in order.
"As in all the churches of the saints, the women should keep silence in the churches. For they are not permitted to speak, but should be subordinate, as even the law says. If there is anything they desire to know, let them ask their husbands at home. For it is shameful for a woman to speak in church. What! Did the word of God originate with you, or are you the only ones it has reached? If any one thinks that he is a prophet, or spiritual, he should acknowledge that what I am writing to you is a command of the Lord. If any one does not recognize this, he is not recognized" (1 Corinthians 14:33-38).
--------------------
Strive to enter in at the strait gate:for many, I say unto you will seek to enter in, and shall not be able. ( Luke 13:24 )
Posts: 4578 | From: Southeast Texas | Registered: Jun 2002
| IP: Logged |
|
|
WhiteEagle
Advanced Member
Member # 3728
|
posted
quote:
Originally posted by BORN AGAIN:
sister WhiteEagle, as sister Pleasemaranatha once said to me (I hope you don't mind, Plmntha), you're a HOOT.
You also write quote:
Any time I have seen people leave in the middle of a church service, it was after someone gave a general word of edification or prophecy.
I agree that some churches are totally unruly.
sister WhiteEagle, I don't know the context in which this what said, I only have so much time, but if I were to judge this by its above perimeters, I personally do not mind at all if someone, anyone, do all want to go?, in the middle of whatever is going on.
I am all for, may I sound almost WildB-like but not that far right, I am all for the attendees of a congregation not having their free will impaired.
This is a free country; freedom of expression and freedom of decision for each individual must remain paramount on earth. Led by the Spirit to what extent the soul is led, yes. But thinking it is as good an idea to leave in the middle of the sermon as at the end, we must, for who knows what is occurring in this Christian's personal life?
God Elohim of Israel bless our Internet church. BORN AGAIN in the USA by the ![[Cross]](graemlins/cross.gif)
In context I wrote that to point out that when the Holy Spirit is convicting people, some people will leave in the middle of a service. And for various other reasons also. I wasn't trying to impinge on free will, as that wasn't the context of my post. I wasn't trying to say that they aren't allowed to leaven anytime. Only pointing out how the Holy Spirit's wooing affect us at times. It's a spiritual battle.
MY point was, since I have personally experienced this wanting to leave syndrome myself. If one is influenced by the Lies of the Enemy in one's mind (and Christians are subject to this) If someone is preaching the Word, one will have a conflict in one's spirit as the enemy struggles against us receiving the WORD.
That's what I kind of mean. When God's Word goes forth, demons are stirred up in the people who are in bondage to their lies.
Posts: 1392 | From: Maine | Registered: Aug 2004
| IP: Logged |
|
|
BORN AGAIN
unregistered
|
posted
sister WhiteEagle, as sister Pleasemaranatha once said to me (I hope you don't mind, Plmntha), you're a HOOT.
You also write quote:
Any time I have seen people leave in the middle of a church service, it was after someone gave a general word of edification or prophecy.
I agree that some churches are totally unruly.
sister WhiteEagle, I don't know the context in which this what said, I only have so much time, but if I were to judge this by its above perimeters, I personally do not mind at all if someone, anyone, do all want to go?, in the middle of whatever is going on.
I am all for, may I sound almost WildB-like but not that far right, I am all for the attendees of a congregation not having their free will impaired.
This is a free country; freedom of expression and freedom of decision for each individual must remain paramount on earth. Led by the Spirit to what extent the soul is led, yes. But thinking it is as good an idea to leave in the middle of the sermon as at the end, we must, for who knows what is occurring in this Christian's personal life?
God Elohim of Israel bless our Internet church. BORN AGAIN in the USA by the
IP: Logged |
|
|
helpforhomeschoolers
Advanced Member
Member # 15
|
posted
I too believe that Suicide is a spirit, White Eagle. Thank God your husband could discern what had happened. I am also thankful for Desi that we were in a church that did not deny semonic activity of this sort. Praise God because she has never again been troubled with this spirit of fear; I dont know where it went, but I was glad it had to let her go!
Posts: 4684 | From: Southern Black Hills of South Dakota | Registered: Jun 2002
| IP: Logged |
|
|
WhiteEagle
Advanced Member
Member # 3728
|
posted
The stronger the Holy Spirit shows up, the more one sees manifestation of the enemy.
Some people get mad and leave, some people weep, some people are afraid. I've been attacked by the spirit of suicide during a service when the guest speaker was a missionary and she was praying over a young woman up front to free her by Christ of the spirit of suicide.
It left the young girl, and came at me. I'm weak in this area, as I've fought this spirit all my life. For me suddenly, I felt rebellious, and I even left the service, I was so angry. The evil spirit told me lies, such as
"see they care about that young girl, but they do not care if you are suicidal" "They won't help YOU." "you are too old and used up", they know you are a fake, or you would have commited suicide by now."
I went outside in the car and cried. I didn't want anyone to know. My husband was able to discern what had happened and he prayed for me afterwards.
I still felt wiped out, and confused and 2 days later, when I was alone in my house in the morning I could hear that preachers' voice speaking "Push through to God" and the Holy Spirit fell on me, and I started sobbing very hard and said "never again!"
The Holy Spirit was ministering to me, Jesus came to me when I was able to receive HIS Comfort.
It is a battle. Later my regular pastor told me, she was aware that I had "caught" that evil spirit.
I can testify that it has weakened over me, and I pray I will be an overcomer.
Posts: 1392 | From: Maine | Registered: Aug 2004
| IP: Logged |
|
|
WhiteEagle
Advanced Member
Member # 3728
|
posted
quote:
Originally posted by Pleasemaranatha:
For over 20 years we have gone to churches that have been open to the gifts of the Holy Spirit operating. It is always a blessing. They have order, miracles, healings, many being slain in the spirit, and the fullness of God all around us.
It isn't unholy.........or freaky....or scary........it is wonderful.
These aren't services that last 1 hour. They are bible believing ministers that preach. The members worship for many hours each time the doors are open for a service.
I know many of you that hesitate from attending these services just don't really understand. I pray you give them another chance.
Glory be to God for all HE has done!
The "fear" that some people have is sent from the devil. He certainly does not want someone to know about God. Others are just fearful out of prejudice, but that's still a lie from satan.
My church sounds similar to yours. When I first started attending and people were doing all these words of prophecy, slain out, and dancing around etc. I wasn't afraid, but I prayed to God that I wanted Him to show me if this was REAL from Him, and not just hype.
I sensed peace and love in the services and from the other people, but I am not someone who is outwardly expressive, even during basketball games. So it was hard for me, as I didn't want to be "made" to put on any acts.
I have since discovered what goes on in the Spirit is not any act of the flesh. So many times ,more than I can remember .the pastor has preached on what I just read the night before in the Bible, or talked about with my husband or just was thinking about regarding God.
Some people have visited and were not able to sit through the whole service as they were afraid of the Spirit of God in the service.
Like Linda writes: our services too do not follow a rigid timed schedule. The leaders are doing their best to be open to the Spirit's leading. Sometimes I sense the Holy Spirit with the first song, sometimes not until the last song. We celebrate Christ.
Posts: 1392 | From: Maine | Registered: Aug 2004
| IP: Logged |
|
|
helpforhomeschoolers
Advanced Member
Member # 15
|
posted
I am thankful for a church that allows the Holy Spirit to lead. There have been times when we are sharing testimony and praising and prophesying and praying that our pastor has had to say, well if you want to hear me preach your gonna have to come back tonight because this is what the Spirit wants to do now! And we will continue as long as the Spirit is moving in the people; he will have to say if you need to go, feel free but we will stay as long as we need to stay and people will continue on praying or testifying or whatever. This will aslo sometimes happen with our worship music time.
There is also a woman in our church who cannot come forth for the brethren to lay on hands and pray that she does not end up flat on her back on the floor. She just is not able to stand under the power of the Spirit. She had knee surgery one year and rather than come forth for prayer we had to go to her seat because she knew that she would be flat on her back. I think that this is more our own emotional response than the Spirit of God choosing to throw someone to the floor. I would imagine that a situation like yours white eagle where your who church and pastors were praying and blessing you to send you forth in missions was a powerful thing to experience. When God delivered me from depression, the power of having having that demonic opression lifted from me so very physically tangibly real after having lived under its oppression for 8 long years was so ... I dont have words... so freeing, that I was laughing like I have never laughed before or since... I see that as an emotional response of my own to the Spirit rather than the Spirit causing me to laugh...like was claimed at Brownsville. Me, I cry. I do not have the ability to hold back tears that stream from my eyes... an emotional response to a song, a story, a sermon, even sometimes just a thought about HIS majesty. Once in church, the woman who I was telling you about who ends up on the floor anytime the elders lay hands on her in prayer... once she came up to me after church and said "I saw you during worship and I want you to know, I just feel your pain and I am praying for you, and honey what ever it is.. it is gonna be ok." I had to laugh outloud! I said "(Her Name)! I am not in pain, I am in great joy!" My family laughs at me because I can hear amazing grace on the radio and be reduced to tears. Not tears of sadness! Tears of Awe! I am an emotional person. His Majesty awes me beyond my ability to control my emotion. When we moved here to SD, I traveled through the mountains of Tennesee for the first time in my life I was seeing mountains, I had lived in flat florida my whole life... I was so struck my the beauty... all I could think of was what God's eyes must be like... that he would paint the landscapes that I see. Can you imagine what heaven will be like when you look at the beauty that HE has painted here in this earth that is full of sin? That made me cry... my poor daughter sitting on the seat beside me in the truck just 11 years old... she must have thought I had lost my mind... but I was awestruck just to think about God's sense of beauty.
I have also seen what you speak of White Eagle with the demons. When 911 happened we all gathered that evening at our church for prayer and we were all just praying in the spirit and we had a pretty full house that night and all the sudden my youngest daughter sitting next to me began to sob outloud uncontrollably... her knees were shaking and she could not speak. It scared me half to death. She could not stop shaking. Immediately the pastor and two of the elders came to our pew and began to lay hands on her and pray and the more they prayed the more she sobbed. It was truly frightening and I did not know what was happening. My pastor spoke to the whole church and said everyone needs to pray and we did and he spoke to Dez and told her to pray in her spirit with him as he prayed outloud and finally Dez calmed and she stopped shaking and she was ok. My pastor and his wife took her outside for fresh air and walk and when they returned she had explained to them that she had all of the sudden out of no where while she was praying been smacked with a sense of overwhelming fear and doom and it just seemed to envelope her.
My pastor explained that this had been a demonic attack against her and that demons will often seek out to attack children. This spirit of fear had been apparently riled by our prayer. Dez must have been the most vulnerable there that day. I dont recall that there were any other children there that evening. Hal had been out of town so I naturally took Dez with me. I guess I want to bear witness that what you say is true and when the power of God is present and mving it does indeed stir up the unseen realm! I am so thankful to have a pastor and a church family that knew extactly what was happening and responded immediately for I surely did not know what was happening.
Posts: 4684 | From: Southern Black Hills of South Dakota | Registered: Jun 2002
| IP: Logged |
|
|
yahsway
Advanced Member
Member # 3738
|
posted
I can appreciate that PleaseMaranantha,
Our services start at 2pm and we are usually finished around 11 pm .
We have food, fellowship, worship, dancing and preaching, testimonies, prayer and yes even prophecies in tongues. All done in order, not freaky at all.
I was just telling of my experiences in the past at some assemblies that were out or order, not to impy that they all are. Shalom
Posts: 1238 | From: Tennessee | Registered: Aug 2004
| IP: Logged |
|
|
Pleasemaranatha
Advanced Member
Member # 5150
|
posted
For over 20 years we have gone to churches that have been open to the gifts of the Holy Spirit operating. It is always a blessing. They have order, miracles, healings, many being slain in the spirit, and the fullness of God all around us.
It isn't unholy.........or freaky....or scary........it is wonderful.
These aren't services that last 1 hour. They are bible believing ministers that preach. The members worship for many hours each time the doors are open for a service.
I know many of you that hesitate from attending these services just don't really understand. I pray you give them another chance.
Glory be to God for all HE has done!
--------------------
My soul waiteth for the Lord more than they that watch for the morning. Psalms 130 verse 6
Joyce
Posts: 308 | From: Missouri | Registered: Oct 2005
| IP: Logged |
|
|
HisGrace
unregistered
|
posted
quote:
Originally posted by WhiteEagle:
I have experienced what is called "slain in the spirit". I fought it the first time, due to all the talk about group hypnosis etc.
I believe you. God is the same yesterday, to-day and forever.
IP: Logged |
|
|
WhiteEagle
Advanced Member
Member # 3728
|
posted
I have experienced what is called "slain in the spirit". I fought it the first time, due to all the talk about group hypnosis etc.
I am a very skeptical person. I also don't like to feel I'm being "controlled". either by manipulation or direct commands. (I say that, to say, even so I got "slain". I'm not sure I like or agree with that term. It is a manmade term.
I went up for a prayer blessing from my pastors the Sunday before I left to go on a mission trip.
So there was no mass hypnosis thing going on. It was just me receving prayers of blessing and protection. I just suddenly felt my knees give out and I went down, luckily with someone in the front row easing me down. I was on the floor before I knew it, and just before I fell, I did sense "something"
heavy on me. I can't really explain it well.
It was an impact, yet so subtle as not to really "feel" it with ones usual senses.
No one pushed me, as I certainly would have not allowed myself to be pushed over.
I have been in other churches where the people DO push on one. So there is the real and the fake like anything else.
I wish I could testify of a Damascus epiphany.
But it was more like being overshadowed and mostly silence in my mind and peace.
I do know God is working on me, as I see changes, and others have seen and told me of these changes over the past 2 years.
Posts: 1392 | From: Maine | Registered: Aug 2004
| IP: Logged |
|
|
yahsway
Advanced Member
Member # 3738
|
posted
HisGrace, I dont know anything about the media, Im referring to churches i personally visit from time to time. Not to mentione the Assembly of God where I used to attend. They were very out of order, but not as much as a Church of God I attended. They were down right scary.
But the worst was when i was at the Brownsville revival several years back. Totally out of order.
Posts: 1238 | From: Tennessee | Registered: Aug 2004
| IP: Logged |
|
|
HisGrace
unregistered
|
posted
I went to a Pentecostal meeting once and they spoke in tongues, and it was very sacred and orderly. The media uses any excuse to sensationalize any story - that's their job.
IP: Logged |
|
|
WhiteEagle
Advanced Member
Member # 3728
|
posted
quote:
Originally posted by yahsway:
WhiteEagle, I can appreciate everything you say about the Holy Spirit and the manifestations.
But what concerns me in a lot of todays churchs who are opened to such, is that if everyone is talking in tongues at the same time, or running around, ect... that those who are unbelievers or uniformed as Paul states might say that "you are out of your mind" and possibly leave the service.
Paul goes on to say "Let all things be done for edification. If anyone speaks in a tongue, let there be 2 or at the most 3, and each in turn (not at the same time) and let one interpret.
But if there is no interpreter, let him keep silent in church, and let him speak to himself and to God. And then he says, "For you can all prophesy one by one, that all may learn and all may be encouraged.
Therefore brethren, desire earnstly to prophesy, and do not forbid to speak with tongues.
Let all things be done decently and in order.
I think a lot of todays assemblies have moved away from this instruction and so there comes some confusion.
Any time I have seen people leave in the middle of a church service, it was after someone gave a general word of edification or prophecy.
I agree that some churches are totally unruly.
Posts: 1392 | From: Maine | Registered: Aug 2004
| IP: Logged |
|
|
yahsway
Advanced Member
Member # 3738
|
posted
WhiteEagle, I can appreciate everything you say about the Holy Spirit and the manifestations.
But what concerns me in a lot of todays churchs who are opened to such, is that if everyone is talking in tongues at the same time, or running around, ect... that those who are unbelievers or uniformed as Paul states might say that "you are out of your mind" and possibly leave the service.
Paul goes on to say "Let all things be done for edification. If anyone speaks in a tongue, let there be 2 or at the most 3, and each in turn (not at the same time) and let one interpret.
But if there is no interpreter, let him keep silent in church, and let him speak to himself and to God. And then he says, "For you can all prophesy one by one, that all may learn and all may be encouraged.
Therefore brethren, desire earnstly to prophesy, and do not forbid to speak with tongues.
Let all things be done decently and in order.
I think a lot of todays assemblies have moved away from this instruction and so there comes some confusion.
Posts: 1238 | From: Tennessee | Registered: Aug 2004
| IP: Logged |
|
|
WhiteEagle
Advanced Member
Member # 3728
|
posted
quote:
Originally posted by HisGrace:
quote:
Originally posted by WhiteEagle:
It came to me while talking to my husband this morning, that the reason I was so scared and trembling so violently, after this girl spoke, was that She was filled with the Holy Spirit and the devils in me at that time were what was making me shake with fear. Jesus showed up that day in this humble, poor, ugly girl, that I had
never given the time of day to.
The BAPTISTS IN IGNORANCE had kicked out and shut up the Holy Spirit in this young christian girl and called her a devil.
Actually it was many of us in the church who had the unseen and hidden devils.
Food for thought. I'll add some other examples later.
That is a very interesting example and a very sobering thought, WhiteEagle. We have to be so careful not to grieve the Holy Spirit.
They were acting like the legalistic Pharisess who had a veil over their eyes and probably, in their ignorance, were frightened by the manifestation of the Holy Spirit.
Matthew 9:34 But the Pharisees said, He casteth out devils through the prince of the devils.
I agree it's very sobering and humbling. It could border on blaspheming the Holy Spirit. I'll stick with you, in that it certainly "grieved" the Holy Spirit.
I think many times people on both sides of WOF could be guilty of false discernments.
Holy Laughter. Manifestion of the Holy Spirit? or of demons? Depends on the fruit, doesn't it?
Some things are evident. When people are trembling or running out the door when the Holy Spirit shows up corporately in a church service, we see the demons are manifesting. Some people will say,as I have said in the past, "I leaving this service, these people are crazy". Feeling righteous and godly to do so. Yet God does not give the spirit of fear. So if one leaves out of fear, then who is the author?
Posts: 1392 | From: Maine | Registered: Aug 2004
| IP: Logged |
|
|
WhiteEagle
Advanced Member
Member # 3728
|
posted
quote:
Originally posted by BORN AGAIN:
sister WhiteEagle writes quote:
One thing that is not mentioned, that occurred to me like a ton of bricks; is that whenever Jesus Christ showed up, such as preaching in the Temple, or walking the roads of Galilee and Judea and crossing the Sea of Galilee by boat is that the demons always manifested themselves.
There came a day in a certain city in the USA that I was walking on the sidewalk and it was like the Spirit of God came on my that day as I walked.
Within minutes I was approached my a homeless man who asked if I was Jesus and I said no, but I am a disciple and know Him."
And sister WhiteEagle, as I walked on in this certain street in that same hour, there was a guy with a video camera and a computer screen, and he took a video computer picture of my head that day when the Spirit came on me. Maybe I'll show it one day on this CBBS.
And then, sister WhiteEagle, I walked past a restaurant in whose window was sitting a homeless-type man, who turned to me looking at him through the plate-glass window and I could hear him say, "I know who you are, I know who you are", although I had never met him. But I knew that he was speaking about Jesus who had come on me.
God bless, BORN AGAIN
"keep so busy praising my Jesus, ain't got time to die."
People who never met my husband before will often say to him "you're a Christian,aren't you."
Just as your testimony above evidences the Holy Spirit resides in you, so it does in all of the Redeemed.
I once had confronted a disrepectful co-worker: 1 on 1 in a calm manner, and we did have privacy as the others in the room left us.
I asked her outright "What do you have against me?" What can I do?"
Her response was to deny any responsibility for her actions and she started crying. I calmly asked her why didn't she like me and treat me with normal respect as one should to anyone they work with?
She said."Get out! Go away! from me!"
So I did, feeling completely bewildered.
I blamed myself for her response. I used to try to reason it out, that perhaps I came on too strong or perhaps I yelled at her. But I know I did not. I sat across from her eye to eye with a desk between us. I knew if I didn't confront her now in a calm way, that it would become worse.
Did she have demons that wanted to strike out at the Christ in me? Her response was totally off the wall in context to the situation.
In her heart she didn't like me,(fine) I don't expect everyone to like me) She felt since she didn't like me, she had the right to treat me with disrepect openly. (NOT FINE)(NOT PROFESSIONAL)
People can attack the Christ in us, and often we feel it's our fault. It's not. (I'm not saying we are never at fault) But many times when things happen against us that don't make sense in context to a situation, one needs to pray for wisdom.
Posts: 1392 | From: Maine | Registered: Aug 2004
| IP: Logged |
|
|
BORN AGAIN
unregistered
|
posted
sister WhiteEagle writes quote:
One thing that is not mentioned, that occurred to me like a ton of bricks; is that whenever Jesus Christ showed up, such as preaching in the Temple, or walking the roads of Galilee and Judea and crossing the Sea of Galilee by boat is that the demons always manifested themselves.
There came a day in a certain city in the USA that I was walking on the sidewalk and it was like the Spirit of God came on my that day as I walked.
Within minutes I was approached my a homeless man who asked if I was Jesus and I said no, but I am a disciple and know Him."
And sister WhiteEagle, as I walked on in this certain street in that same hour, there was a guy with a video camera and a computer screen, and he took a video computer picture of my head that day when the Spirit came on me. Maybe I'll show it one day on this CBBS.
And then, sister WhiteEagle, I walked past a restaurant in whose window was sitting a homeless-type man, who turned to me looking at him through the plate-glass window and I could hear him say, "I know who you are, I know who you are", although I had never met him. But I knew that he was speaking about Jesus who had come on me.
God bless, BORN AGAIN
"keep so busy praising my Jesus, ain't got time to die."
IP: Logged |
|
|
HisGrace
unregistered
|
posted
quote:
Originally posted by WhiteEagle:
It came to me while talking to my husband this morning, that the reason I was so scared and trembling so violently, after this girl spoke, was that She was filled with the Holy Spirit and the devils in me at that time were what was making me shake with fear. Jesus showed up that day in this humble, poor, ugly girl, that I had
never given the time of day to.
The BAPTISTS IN IGNORANCE had kicked out and shut up the Holy Spirit in this young christian girl and called her a devil.
Actually it was many of us in the church who had the unseen and hidden devils.
Food for thought. I'll add some other examples later.
That is a very interesting example and a very sobering thought, WhiteEagle. We have to be so careful not to grieve the Holy Spirit.
They were acting like the legalistic Pharisess who had a veil over their eyes and probably, in their ignorance, were frightened by the manifestation of the Holy Spirit.
Matthew 9:34 But the Pharisees said, He casteth out devils through the prince of the devils.
IP: Logged |
|
|
WhiteEagle
Advanced Member
Member # 3728
|
posted
quote:
Originally posted by SoftTouch:
quote:
Originally posted by becauseHElives:
The “falling away” or apostasy of 2 Thessalonians, chapter 2, seems well underway in our time.
Can Antichrist, the ultimate deceiver, be far behind in galloping onto the stage of end-time history?
I know I hear hoof beats...
Good Word my Brother, Amen!
I am hearing the Ram's Horn Trumpet and the Call to Battle, myself. Gathering the Army on the hill with the Rising of the Son.... ![[Wink]](wink.gif)
Posts: 1392 | From: Maine | Registered: Aug 2004
| IP: Logged |
|
|
WhiteEagle
Advanced Member
Member # 3728
|
posted
HisGrace:
I was discussing this topic with my husband; ie the manifestation of "the cackling woman" and other such antics that have people here upset with the WOF movement.
One thing that is not mentioned, that occurred to me like a ton of bricks; is that whenever Jesus Christ showed up, such as preaching in the Temple, or walking the roads of Galilee and Judea
and crossing the Sea of Galilee by boat is that the demons always manifested themselves.
All the gospels have examples of this, but Mark seems to highlight this truth about Christ more than the others.
Mark 1:23-26 And there was in their synagogue a man with unclean spirit; and he cried out, saying "Let us alone, what have we to do with thee, thou Jesus of Narareth? art thou come to destroy us? I know thee who thou art, the Holy One of God!" And Jesus rebuked him, saying : "hold thy peace and come out of him!"
And when the unclean spirit had torn him and cried out with a loud voice, he came out of him.
Mark 1:34 "And he healed many that were sick with divers diseases, and cast out many devils and suffered not the devils to speak, because they knew him."
The scribes believed that Jesus was from the prince of devils because he cast out devils.Mark 3:22-30. Here we are given the warning about blaspheming the Holy Spirit.
Mark 5:2 "And when he(Jesus) was come out of the ship, immediately there met him out of the tombs a man with an unclean spirit.
Mark 5:6-7 "But when he saw Jesus afar off, he ran and worshipped him. And cried with a loud voice and said, "what have I to do with with thee Jesus, thou Son of the Most High God? I adjure thee by God that thou torment me not.
In Matthew 8:29 (this same story has this addition) And behold they cried out(the legion)saying "What have we to do with thee Jesus, thou Son of God? art thou come hither to torment us before the time.
In James 2:19 "Thou believeth that there is one God; thou doeth well: the devils also believe, and tremble."
In spirit filled churches we "see" these manifestations of people who have devils very often. Even in Christians or people who have gone to church all their lives.
Jesus is the Light of the World. His presence uncovers all. Churches that are filled with Holy Spirit filled worshipping Christians will always uncover the devils.
That is why one will see weird manifestations in services, and the mistake is to call it a manifestion of the Holy Spirit.
One example that is a personal one for me.
When I was 16 and attending a Baptist church, the pastor was doing a Bible study on demons.
The sermon was scary enough to me, and many others I talked to later all felt scared. The service became even scarier when another girl who I knew, but was not friends with, suddenly stood up with her hands over her head and she broke the silence of the altar call by saying:"listen my children, listen to the truth."
I turned around to look behind myself as the voice seemed to eminate from the back of the church. When I saw it was 9the girl I knew who speaks with a lisp0 speaking so cystal clear and she was sitting across from me, not behind me, I really got scared. (I thought she from the devil and trying to disrupt the service) The pastor's face was white as a sheet and he and the elders evidently thought the same thing that I was thinking, that this was a manifestation of Satan in our "godly" service. The pastor ordered the girl removed and to not allow her to speak any further.
I went home with friends who drove me to the service and I was shaking uncontrollably all the way home. I couldn't stop shaking, it was like having the chills with a high fever shakes. I slept with one of my sisters with the Bible under my pillow that night I was so traumatized by this and didn't hardly sleep all night, as I felt every noise I heard was a demon coming to get me.
Now the pastor did plead the Blood frequently during this service. So how could a devil be able to speak during this service? Pleading the Blood didn't make me feel any better either at that time period.
So was this girl of the devil or of God?
It came to me while talking to my husband this morning, that the reason I was so scared and trembling so violently, after this girl spoke, was that She was filled with the Holy Spirit and the devils in me at that time were what was making me shake with fear. Jesus showed up that day in this humble, poor, ugly girl, that I had
never given the time of day to.
The BAPTISTS IN IGNORANCE had kicked out and shut up the Holy Spirit in this young christian girl and called her a devil.
Actually it was many of us in the church who had the unseen and hidden devils.
Food for thought. I'll add some other examples later.
Posts: 1392 | From: Maine | Registered: Aug 2004
| IP: Logged |
|
|
HisGrace
unregistered
|
posted
quote:
Originally posted by WhiteEagle:
Grace;I suggest we go to any random church supper, and I'm sure we will find the mother lode of "cackling women".
2 entries found for cackle.
cack·le ( P ) Pronunciation Key (kkl)
v. cack·led, cack·ling, cack·les v. intr.
To make the shrill cry characteristic of a hen after laying an egg.
To laugh or talk in a shrill manner.
v. tr.
To utter in cackles: cackled a sarcastic reply.
n.
The act or sound of cackling. Shrill laughter.
Foolish chatter.
The profound history of cackle - ![[thumbsup2]](graemlins/thumbsup2.gif) [Middle English cakelen, probably from Middle Low German kkeln, of imitative origin.]
-------------------------------------------------
Cackle 2
: the sound made by a hen after laying an egg 2: noisy talk [syn: yak, yack, yakety-yak, chatter] 3: a loud laugh suggestive of a hen's cackle v 1: talk or utter in a cackling manner; "The women cackled when they saw the movie star step out of the limousine" 2: squawk shrilly and loudly, characteristic of hens 3: emit a loud, unpleasant kind of laughing
IP: Logged |
|
|
|
Printer-friendly view of this topic
