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Author
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Topic: Examine the Word Faith Teachers
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Inky
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posted
lol I bet you tired of hearing from me. This is the last post I promise. I found these videos of Creflo saying we are Gods. I recognized them as soon as I saw them. OUr church used to play Dollar and Copeland videos sometimes instead of services.
Creflo Dollar is echoing the second lie from the serpent in the garden of Eden, "you shall be as gods" (Gen 3:5). It is a very old lie, and blasphemy of the highest order.
http://biblelight.net/Creflo-Dollar-3.ram Click on that link to see the video of Creflo Dollar saying we are Gods.
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For those who would appeal to Psalm 82:
Psa 82:6 I have said, Ye are gods; and all of you are children of the most High.
The word translated "gods" is:
H430. 'elohiym, el-o-heem'; plur. of H433; gods in the ordinary sense; but spec. used (in the plur. thus, esp. with the art.) of the supreme God; occasionally applied by way of deference to magistrates; and sometimes as a superlative:--angels, X exceeding, God (gods) (-dess, -ly), X (very) great, judges, X mighty.
In context, Psalm 82 is addressed to the magistrates, the judges of Israel, and that is the intended meaning of the word in verse 6. Another similar use of the word is found in Exodus 21:6.
The following are excerpts from Creflo Dollar's program Jesus' Growth into Sonship, dated December 8, 15, 2002. The first clip is from near the beginning of the program:
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http://biblelight.net/Creflo-Dollar-1.ram
Here's what I want you to get here. If Jesus came as God, then why did God have to anoint Him? If Jesus - see God's already been anointed. If Jesus came as God, then why did God have to anoint Him? Jesus came as a man, that's why it was legal to anoint him. God doesn't need anointing, He is anointing. Jesus came as a man, and at age 30 God is now getting ready to demonstrate to us, and give us an example of what a man, with the anointing, can do. -- Creflo Dollar
Ten minutes into the program, the following is said:
Jesus didn't come as God, he came as a man, and he did not come perfect. Perfect in the sense that he didn't need to be added to. -- Creflo Dollar
The Bible says Jesus Christ was God manifest in the flesh:
1 Tim 3:16 And without controversy great is the mystery of godliness: God was manifest in the flesh, justified in the Spirit, seen of angels, preached unto the Gentiles, believed on in the world, received up into glory.
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This second clip is from near the end of the program:
http://biblelight.net/Creflo-Dollar-2.ram
But Jesus didn't show up perfect, he grew into his perfection. You know Jesus, in one scripture in the Bible he went on a journey, and he was tired. You better hope God don't get tired. Isaiah 50 says, 50, 60, somewhere, says where we have a God who fainteth not, neither is weary (Isa. 40:28). But Jesus did, if he came as God and he got tired, he says he sat down by the well 'cause he was tired. Boy we're in trouble. And somebody said, well, Jesus came as God. Well how many of you know the Bible says God never sleeps, nor slumbers. And yet in the book of Mark we see Jesus asleep in the back of the boat.
Y'all please listen to me, please listen to me. This ain't no heresy. I am not some false prophet, I am just reading this thing out to you the Bible. I am just telling you all these fantasy preachers have been preaching all of this stuff for all of these years and we bought the package. And the question mark was there. And we are now - faith can never go past that question mark, and we've tolerated and put it up, put up with things that we had authority over ... -- Creflo Dollar
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What fantasy preachers is he talking about? I know of no Christian denomination that teaches that Jesus was God only - and NOT also man. He seems to imply that this false teaching is widespread and deceiving many. Who has taught this false doctrine about Jesus that deceived Creflo Dollar, or anyone else? What Christian preachers have taught anything other than Jesus was the God-man, fully God and fully man? He did not say. Not once did he explain that Jesus, while still fully God, did not always exercise His divine powers, but rather chose to experience our human frailties with us. Setting aside His divine power, but not His divinity, Jesus tired, slept, got hungry, and experienced the pain of suffering of dieing on the cross at the hands of fellow men. That IS the teaching of all Christian denominations that I know of, yet in his sermon Creflo Dollar seemed to reject this, apparently determined to deny the deity of Jesus Christ. However, currently on his web site in the section on Christian Fundamentals, he does briefly mention the Trinity, so Creflo Dollar apparently does believe in the deity of Jesus Christ, despite what he says, and the impression he gives in the above sermon.
Source:
http://www.biblelight.net/Creflo-Dollar.htm
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Inky
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quote:
5.)Originally posted by Me.
There are no scriptures supporting that Jesus went to hell. If it is not in the bible then it is not of God.
I stand corrected. I found these scriptures.
Revelation 1:18 (King James Version)
18I am he that liveth, and was dead; and, behold, I am alive for evermore, Amen; and have the keys of hell and of death.
Revelation 6:8 (King James Version)
8And I looked, and behold a pale horse: and his name that sat on him was Death, and Hell followed with him. And power was given unto them over the fourth part of the earth, to kill with sword, and with hunger, and with death, and with the beasts of the earth.
King James Version (KJV)
Acts 2:27
27Because thou wilt not leave my soul in hell, neither wilt thou suffer thine Holy One to see corruption.
Acts 2:31
31He seeing this before spake of the resurrection of Christ, that his soul was not left in hell, neither his flesh did see corruption.
I cannot find a transcript of what Kenneth Copeland said. I remember hearing him say it and think it was insane.
I did find one of Creflo Dollar telling his story of How Jesus went to hell.
http://www.letusreason.org/Wf42.htm
“Somehow, Jesus has got to get to hell in order to get the keys that they stole from Adam in the garden of Eden. Now Lucifer was in that garden illegally. Now somehow, Jesus is going to have to end up in hell, illegally. But in order to get to hell. He’s got to look like a sinner. Or they’re not going to receive Him into hell, you’ve got to be a sinner. He’s got to somehow look like that serpent on that stick in Moses’ day. He’s got to look like a serpent in order to be taken in.”
“And Jesus who had never sinned, made an exchange with His covenant partner. He says, “Let Me wear your coat of sin. It’ll make Me look like a sinner. I’ve never sinned, but if I can put your coat of sin on, when I get back I’m going to give you my coat of righteousness.” So the Bible says that He who had not sinned was made sin. And hell looked up there and they couldn’t figure out how but they snatched Him. Get Him! So now Jesus entered in legally into hell. But He was there illegally. Because once you get to hell there’s got to be some record of your sin.”
“Now He had to stay there 3 days and 3 nights because that’s what His word said. Jesus said “tear this temple down and in 3 days I’ll raise it up again”. Some of you all said what? Jesus went to hell, that’s what the whole book of Acts chapter 2 says that He suffered the pains of hell. You better hope He went to hell because if He didn’t go you and I would have to. You better hope He became every sickness, disease and depression and every piece of mess in the world because whatever He didn’t become you and I would have to become.
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SoftTouch
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Sister Inky, WELCOME to the CBBS! I'm so glad to read your first hand account of being in a WoF church. PRAISE GOD for His Mercy in giving you HIS Discernment on these issues and Thank YOu for sharing them with us here! I look forward to reading more of your posts as well!
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Psalm 119:104Through thy precepts I get understanding: therefore I hate every false way. 105Thy word is a lamp unto my feet, and a light unto my path.
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Inky
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quote:
Originally posted by redkermit:
I'm not calling Copeland a heretic, but reading some of these recent posts made me want to go to his site again & see if there was anything posted there I could read here at work. I started reading this e-book and there is much in there that doesn't sit right with me.
This is about 111 pages long. I gotten to page 11.
I put a very sentences before and after so no one says I am taking it out of context.
Kenneth Copeland states:
You cannot control your mind completely without the Word of God being alive and operating inside of you.
You must control your will in the same way. Some people say, "Lord, help my will to crumble." God doesn't want a broken will that He can dominate. He wants your will whole and in submission to His will so that the two of you can work together in unity. When God made man, He gave him a will that has power. It is actually a godlike will because man has the right to choose his own eternal destiny. Only a god has that kind of choice! Man was made in God's image and given the will to make up his own mind. You can go to hell if you want to and God will protect your right...you don't have to but you can.
Only God has that kind of choice! That is a key phrase. Why does he say that after he says we have that choice?
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Inky
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SoftTouch. Thanks for "The bible Believer and Heretics" link. I printed it up.
Copeland has made way to many statements in references to (men being the same as god) You can tell that all these references are meant that we are gods. ( I actaully heard a lot of these on television myself)
The WOF church I went to did the same thing. Maybe not the same statements he made, but they did try and prove it in the bible.
What does the bible say about False Prophets and Blasphemy?
Blasphemy Biblically Defined:
John 10:33"The Jews answered him, saying, For a good work we stone thee not; but for blasphemy; and because that thou, being a man, makest thyself God."
2 Peter 2:1-2 But there were false prophets also among the people, even as there shall be false teachers among you, who privily shall bring in damnable heresies, even denying the Lord that bought them, and bring upon themselves swift destruction.And many shall follow their pernicious ways; by reason of whom the way of truth shall be evil spoken of. Click on evil spoken and then click on of to find out the meaning of that part.
Once again I will say this. These are not Christian Teachings. That is why He is considered a False Prophet and That Word of Faith is a Cult.
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SoftTouch
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Below are just a Few Quotes of the Heresies that Copeland has taught throughout his ministry. Each quote is followed by a “Source” where the quote came from and so can be confirmed. If anyone is ‘concerned’ about how ‘old’ some quotes may be, then please show me where Copeland has ever repented of those particular teachings.
Kenneth Copeland has taught the following
That we do not have a god in us but that we are a God.
“You don’t have a God in you. You are one!” – Source: The Force of Love audiotape
That Adam was God manifest in the flesh.
"God's reason for creating Adam was His desire to reproduce Himself. I mean a reproduction of Himself, and in the Garden of Eden He did just that. He was not a little like God. He was not almost like God. He was not subordinate to God even. . . . Adam is as much like God as you could get, just the same as Jesus. . . . Adam, in the Garden of Eden, was God manifested in the flesh."
Source: Following the Faith of Abraham I, side 1
God is the greatest failure in the Universe
"I was shocked when I found out who the biggest failure in the Bible actually is....The biggest one is God....I mean, He lost His top-ranking, most anointed angel; the first man He ever created; the first woman He ever created; the whole earth and all the Fullness therein; a third of the angels, at least--that's a big loss, man. . .
Source: Praise-a-Thon program on TBN [April 1988]
God lives on a mother planet
"Heaven has a north and a south and an east and a west. Consequently, it must be a planet."
Source: Spirit, Soul and Body I 1985 audiotape #01-0601, side 1
"You don't think earth was first, do you? Huh? Well, you don't think that God made man in His image, and then made earth in some other image? There is not anything under this whole sun that's new. Are you hearing what I'm saying? This is all a copy. It's a copy of home. It's a copy of the Mother Planet. Where God lives, He made a little one just like His and put us on it."
Source: Following the Faith of Abraham I, 1989 audiotape #01-3001, side 1
The death of Jesus on the Cross did not pay the price for sins
"It wasn't the physical death on the cross that paid the price for sin..anybody could do that"
Source: What Satan saw on the day of Pentecost
“Every prophet that walked the face of the earth under the Abrahamic covenant could have paid the price if it were a physical death only” “When he said ‘It is finished’ on that cross, he was not speaking of the plan of redemption. The plan of redemption had just begun, there were still three days and three nights to be gone through.” “[Jesus] accepted the sin nature of Satan in His own Spirit, and at the moment that He did so, He cried ‘My God, my God, why have you forsaken me?’.” “He [Jesus] was down in that pit and there he suffered the punishment for three horrible days and nights for Adam’s treason... There is a new birth takes place in the very depths of the earth, when the command of God says ‘That’s enough, loose him and let him go’.”
Source: What Happened from the Cross to the Throne
Jesus was raped by homosexual Roman soldiers everyway possible
"Let me tell you something folks. Anybody in here that's ever been sexually abused, listen to me right now. Listen to me very carefully. The bible's very careful about the way it says these things. But down there in that dungeon, Romans, ungodly men, ungodly men, put him (Jesus) to every kind of abuse that you can think of. There is no sin that Jesus didn't bare. There is no thing, there is no such thing as a sexual abuse on somebody that Jesus doesn't know firsthand what it's all about. He's been where you are, I don't care what you've been through, Jesus has been through it. And everything's done to him that we we couldn't even speak of."
Source: The Resurrection Truth
God and Adam are the same size
”God spoke Adam into existence in authority with words. These words struck Adam's body in the face. His body and God were exactly the same size."
Source: Holy Bible, Kenneth Copeland Reference Edition 1991, 45, emphasis in original
God has no right to the earth at all, he needs an invitation
"God had no avenue of lasting faith or moving in the earth. He had to have covenant with somebody. . . . He had to be invited in, in other words, or He couldn't come. God is on the outside looking in. In order to have any say so in the earth, He's gonna have to be in agreement with a man here."
Source: God's Covenants With Man II 1985, audiotape #01-4404, side 1
Adam looks the same as Jesus and God
"[Adam] was the copy, looked just like [God]. If you stood Adam upside God, they look exactly alike. If you stood Jesus and Adam side by side, they would look and sound exactly alike."
Source: Authority of the Believer IV 1987, audiotape #01-0304, side 1
Other Teachings
"Adam was made in the image of God. He was as much female as he was male. He was exactly like God. Then God separated him and removed the female part. Woman means 'man with the womb.' Eve had as much authority as Adam did as long as they stayed together."
Source: Sensitivity of Heart KCP Publications, 1984, 23
"He [Jesus] is suffering all that there is to suffer. There is no suffering left apart from Him. His emaciated, poured out, little, wormy spirit is down in the bottom of that thing [hell]. And the Devil thinks he's got Him destroyed."
Source: Believer's Voice of Victory" program [21 April 1991]. This message was originally delivered at the Full Gospel Motorcycle Rally Association 1990 Rally at Eagle Mountain Lake, Texas
"That Word of the living God went down into that pit of destruction and charged the spirit of Jesus with resurrection power! Suddenly His twisted, death-wracked spirit began to fill out and come back to life. He began to look like something the devil had never seen before."
Source: The Price of it All," Believer's Voice of Victory 19, 9 [September 1991]:4
"He [Jesus] was literally being reborn before the devil's very eyes. He began to flex His spiritual muscles. . . .Jesus was born again--the firstborn from the dead the Word calls Him--and He whipped the devil in his own backyard. He took everything he had away from him. He took his keys and his authority away from him." Source: (Ibid., 4-6.)
"As a believer, you have a right to make commands in the name of Jesus. Each time you stand on the Word, you are commanding God to a certain extent because it is His Word."
Source: Our Covenant with God [Fort Worth, TX: KCP Publications, 1987], 32
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Psalm 119:104Through thy precepts I get understanding: therefore I hate every false way. 105Thy word is a lamp unto my feet, and a light unto my path.
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Inky
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quote:
Walter Martin a great authority on Cults defines a Cult as :
By the term cult I mean nothing derogatory to any group so classified. A cult, as I define it, is any religious group which differs significantly in one or more respects as to belief or practice from those religious groups which are regarded as the normative expressions of religion in our total culture.
Does WOF qualify as a cult?
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Inky
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Whiteeagle thanks for clarifying context. Now that we got a context establish we can show the differences between WOF and Christians beliefs.
John 1:14 The Word became flesh and made his dwelling among us.
1.) In side the WOF Church I went to, they start us out on John 1:14 The reason they did that is so they can get our thoughts in the direction of thinking of speaking the Word for what we wanted. And to get us thinking we are little gods. They intentionally went back and taught this just for us to get us caught up with them. I repeatedly heard them say to the congregation it doesn’t hurt to go over something you have already learned. I am guessing they do it every time they get new members. It is a brainwashing technique. They took many scriptures where it said Jesus Christ and replaced them with the word "Word". Yes this scripture in the bible is true. That how they get you.
2.) According to Christian believes: It is believed that Jesus was saying he is the Son of God in this scripture:
John 8:28
Then said Jesus unto them, when ye have lifted up the Son of man, then shall ye know that I am he, and that I do nothing of myself; but as my Father hath taught me, I speak these things.
John Gill's Exposition of the Bible
Then shall ye know that I am [he]?
The Son of God, and true Messiah, as the centurion, and those that were with him, did, when they observed the earthquake; and the things that were done at his death; and after the death, resurrection, and ascension of Christ, and the pouring forth of his Spirit, many of the Jews had not only a notional, but a true and spiritual knowledge of Jesus, as the Messiah; and upon the destruction of their temple, city, and nation, and their disappointment by false Christ’s, they doubtless many of them must, and did know, that the true Messiah was come, and that Jesus of Nazareth was he:
3.) Genesis 3:5
For God doth know that in the day ye eat thereof, then your eyes shall be opened, and ye shall be as gods, knowing good and evil.
My first question about this scripture when taught to me in WOF was Did Satan say that? Or did God say that? The Serpent wanted Eve to believe she would be a god. Knowing between evil and good doesn't make you a god. Satan knows the difference too. So, I ask myself is Satan a God? Satan is liar. Being that Satan is a liar we cannot trust anything Satan says.
5.)There are no scriptures supporting that Jesus went to hell. If it is not in the bible then it is not of God.
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SoftTouch
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quote:
Originally posted by redkermit:
quote:
Originally posted by WhiteEagle:
Sometimes it seems that many people who call Copeland a heretic are people who just memorize the Words, but have not yet applied them.
I'm not calling Copeland a heretic, but reading some of these recent posts made me want to go to his site again & see if there was anything posted there I could read here at work. I started reading this e-book and there is much in there that doesn't sit right with me.
Quite often he refers to faith as a "force" like it's some kind of mystical thing from Star Wars. He also basically says that we can call on God for anything and ask in His name, and God will do it. Nowhere does he mention anything about whether it's God's will or not.
He implies that if you are in poverty or ill that you are not in the full knowledge of the Word of God.
He refers to "success formulas" in the Bible, as in we just need to follow some simple steps to get what we want from God.
PRAISE GOD! I am So Glad you decided to do this and share your concerns here. And thank you for putting a link to that e-book as well!
We're Honestly not making this stuff up folks.
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Psalm 119:104Through thy precepts I get understanding: therefore I hate every false way. 105Thy word is a lamp unto my feet, and a light unto my path.
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redkermit
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quote:
Originally posted by WhiteEagle:
Sometimes it seems that many people who call Copeland a heretic are people who just memorize the Words, but have not yet applied them.
I'm not calling Copeland a heretic, but reading some of these recent posts made me want to go to his site again & see if there was anything posted there I could read here at work. I started reading this e-book and there is much in there that doesn't sit right with me.
Quite often he refers to faith as a "force" like it's some kind of mystical thing from Star Wars. He also basically says that we can call on God for anything and ask in His name, and God will do it. Nowhere does he mention anything about whether it's God's will or not.
He implies that if you are in poverty or ill that you are not in the full knowledge of the Word of God.
He refers to "success formulas" in the Bible, as in we just need to follow some simple steps to get what we want from God.
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I would rather be a doorkeeper in the house of my God than dwell in the tents of the wicked. (Ps. 84:10b)
1 John 2:6
Whoever claims to live in him must walk as Jesus did.
Listen Online:
www.wmuz.com
www.997flr.org
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WhiteEagle
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quote:
Originally posted by Inky:
John 4:1-3
Beloved, believe not every spirit, but try the spirits whether they are of God: because many false prophets are gone out into the worldHereby know ye the Spirit of God: Every spirit that confesseth that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is of God:
1.Word Faith says, John 1:14 The Word became flesh and made his dwelling among us.They say Word.
2. Word Faith says, That Jesus never claimed he was the Son of God.
3.Word Faith says,That we are the same as Jesus. That we are "little gods"
4. Word Faith says, Or I should say Kenneth Copeland says that God told him that he could of just as well took Jesus place on the Cross as Jesus that there was no difference between him and Jesus.
5. Word Faith says, When Jesus died on the Cross that wasn't what saved us. That it wasn't his blood , but it was the fact that he went to hell for 3 days and became sin.
Now not all Churches who believe in the Spiritual Gifts support Word Faith.
Your #3 The "little gods" thing.
In Genesis Eve spoke with the serpent and he told her if you eat from the tree of knowledge of good and evil, you will not surely die, but become as gods knowing good and evil.
She and Adam ate the fruit, and broke fellowship with the ONE True God, so they could become as gods. They sinned. They fell out of the direct presence of the Holy One.
Man exchanged the REAL to the counterfit. Man did become a little god unto himself.
Your #4 I too do not like these words of Copelands as they stand. But are they out of context?
If Copeland is attempting to present Christ as fully man, that statement accomplishes that goal.
Jesus Christ was fully a human being in the form of a man, but He is also fully God and fully submitted to God when he walked on earth as a man. None of us could have accomplished that, so I would disagree with Copeland's statement as it stands out of context presented here.
Your # 5 I'm not sure if that is really what the WOF teaches. I think Copeland is just describing what the Atonement gave Jesus the Legal Right to do in Hell. The Atonement washed away our sins, and Jesus Sacrifice on the Cross is the Victory over death and hell, and Copeland is highlighting that Jesus did fullfill that Victory on the CRoss by storming Hell and releasing the captives and taking the keys of hell and death.
Sometimes it seems that many people who call Copeland a heretic are people who just memorize the Words, but have not yet applied them.
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WhiteEagle
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quote:
Originally posted by Inky:
John 4:1-3
Beloved, believe not every spirit, but try the spirits whether they are of God: because many false prophets are gone out into the worldHereby know ye the Spirit of God: Every spirit that confesseth that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is of God:
1.Word Faith says, John 1:14 The Word became flesh and made his dwelling among us.They say Word.
2. Word Faith says, That Jesus never claimed he was the Son of God.
3.Word Faith says,That we are the same as Jesus. That we are "little gods"
4. Word Faith says, Or I should say Kenneth Copeland says that God told him that he could of just as well took Jesus place on the Cross as Jesus that there was no difference between him and Jesus.
5. Word Faith says, When Jesus died on the Cross that wasn't what saved us. That it wasn't his blood , but it was the fact that he went to hell for 3 days and became sin.
Now not all Churches who believe in the Spiritual Gifts support Word Faith.
your #1:
John 1:1-2 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. He was with God in the beginning. The Bible says Word
John 1:3-5 Through Him all things were made; without Him nothing was made that is made. In Him is life, and that life is the light of men. The light shines in the darkness, but the darkness understood it not.
Your #2 "Jesus never claimed he was the Son of God per WOF.
As surprising as that statement sounds it is Truth and Bibically correct. Jesus NEVER Proclaimed He was the Son of God. He never answered Pilate to confirm it, He never allowed the demons to speak it, He never literally stated to anyone "I'm God's Son." If you read the gospels carefully, you will notice that other people testified to Jesus and said to Him you are the Son of God. Jesus then received them. People saw. People bore witness of His glory. People proclaimed Him as God's Son by the Holy Spirit.
Know Why? He doesn't need to because He is the REAL DEAL. Others testified of His Glory. This is the way we test the spirits.
If a spirit says to you "I'm Jesus", you will know it is a liar, or if a spirit says to you "I'm the Holy Spirit, you will know it is a liar.
When the Holy Spirit speaks to us as John 14 outlines, He never speaks of Himself, but will bring to mind Christ and the Words of Christ.
Jesus never has to say who He is. We either recognize Him by the testimony of our spirit when we accept Him or we are in darkness and do not see him.
During Jesus ministry, He informed Peter that the Spirit of God had told Peter he was the The Son of God, and not by men.
The Lord uses people to testify of Jesus.
John 1:6-9 There came a man who was sent from God: his name was John. He came as a witness to testify concerning that light, so that through him all men might believe. He himself was NOT the light; he came only as a witness to the light. The true light that gives light to every man was coming into the world.
John 1:14 The Word became flesh and made his dwelling among us. We have seen his glory, the glory of the One and Only, who came from the Father, full of grace and truth.
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SoftTouch
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Here's an article I found and posted a while back that speaks to these issues.
http://www.cnview.com/on_line_resources/the_bible_believer_and_heretics.htm
What The Bible Says About A Godly Attitude Toward Heresy
In these days of theological confusion and ecclesiastical compromise, what is the Biblical position for the Bible believer to assume toward heretics and false religious teachers? Are we to patronize them, associate with them, accept their sponsorship, increase their numbers, send them converts, add to their prestige, follow their leadership, identify our churches with them, obliterate important Biblical distinctions with them??? The Bible's answer is clear.
1. Try them...I John 4:1, "Beloved, believe not every spirit, but trv the spirits, whether they be of God; because many false prophets are gone out into the world."
2. Mark them...Romans 16:17, "Now I beseech you, brethren, mark them which cause divisions and offences contrary to the doctrine which ye have learned; and avoid them."
3. Rebuke them...Titus 1.13, "This witness is true. Wherefore rebuke them sharply, that they may be sound in the faith."
4. Have no fellowship. ..Ephesians 5:11, "And have no fellowship with the unfruitful works of darkness, but rather reprove them.
5. Withdraw thyself...II Thessalonians 3:6, "Now we command you, brethren, in the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, that ye withdraw yourselves from every brother that walketh disorderly, and not after the tradition which ye received of us." (See also I Timothy 6:3-5).
6. Turn away from them...11 Timothy 3:5, "...Having a form of godliness, but denying the power thereof: from such turn away."
7. Receive them not...II John 10-11, "If there come any unto you, and bring not this doctrine, receive him not into your house, neither bid him God speed; For he that biddeth him God speed is partaker of his evil deeds. " To our day false teachings are fostered by misplaced hospitality.
8. Have no company with him. . 11 Thessalonians 3:14, "And if any man obey not our word by this epistle, note that man, and have no company with him, that he may be ashamed. "
9. Reject them...Titus 3:10, "A man that is an heretic after the first and second admonition, reject."
10. Be ye separate...II Corinthians 6:17, "Wherefore come out from among them, and be ye separate, saith the Lord, and touch not the unclean thing; and I will receive you."
The above adapted from an article by: G. Archer Weniger, D.D.
Contend For The Faith...The Bible teaching is plain. God's people and God's churches are forbidden to make common cause with modernism. Heresy is to be exposed. The ecumenical movement is controlled by heretics. Ecumenical evangelism ignores the Scriptural teaching on sound doctrine, in order "to reach lost souls." What a farce! We should be interested in lost souls, but compromise is not God's way. Jude was interested in "the common salvation", but he also contended for "the faith."
Jude 3, 4, "Beloved, when I gave all diligence to write unto you of the common salvation, it was needful for me to write unto you, and exhort you that ye should earnestly contend for the faith which was once delivered unto the saints. For there are certain men crept in unawares, who were before of old ordained to this condemnation, ungodly men, turning the grace of our God into lasciviousness, and denying the only Lord God, and our Lord Jesus Christ."
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Psalm 119:104Through thy precepts I get understanding: therefore I hate every false way. 105Thy word is a lamp unto my feet, and a light unto my path.
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Inky
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John 4:1-3
Beloved, believe not every spirit, but try the spirits whether they are of God: because many false prophets are gone out into the worldHereby know ye the Spirit of God: Every spirit that confesseth that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is of God:
1.Word Faith says, John 1:14 The Word became flesh and made his dwelling among us.They say Word.
2. Word Faith says, That Jesus never claimed he was the Son of God.
3.Word Faith says,That we are the same as Jesus. That we are "little gods"
4. Word Faith says, Or I should say Kenneth Copeland says that God told him that he could of just as well took Jesus place on the Cross as Jesus that there was no difference between him and Jesus.
5. Word Faith says, When Jesus died on the Cross that wasn't what saved us. That it wasn't his blood , but it was the fact that he went to hell for 3 days and became sin.
Now not all Churches who believe in the Spiritual Gifts support Word Faith.
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Inky
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Thanks to everyone who has welcomed me.
I have been following this thread. I am sort of lost. I am not sure what Mat 16:19 has to do with testing a False Prophet. If that is all we had to do why are there so many cults? Islam to name one.
I decided to look the scripture up in a few commentaries.
quote:
John Wesley's Commentary
Under the term of binding and loosing are contained all those acts of discipline which Peter and his brethren performed as apostles: and undoubtedly what they thus performed on earth, God confirmed in heaven.
quote:
John Gill's Exposition of the Bible
But Christ gave a greater power of binding and loosing, to his disciples, than these men had, and which they used to better purpose. The sense of the words is this, that Peter, and so the rest of the apostles, should be empowered with authority from him, and so directed by his Holy Spirit, that whatever they bound, that is, declared to be forbidden, and unlawful, should be so: and that whatever they loosed, that is, declared to be lawful, and free of use, should be so; and accordingly they bound some things which before were loosed, and loosed some things which before were bound; for instance, they bound, that is, prohibited, or declared unlawful, the use of circumcision, which before, and until the death of Christ, was enjoined the natural seed of Abraham; but that, and all ceremonies, being abolished by the death of Christ, they declared it to be nothing, and of no avail, yea, hurtful and pernicious; that whoever was circumcised, Christ profited him nothing, and that he was a debtor to do the whole law: they affirmed, that the believing Gentiles were not to be troubled with it; that it was a yoke not fit to be put upon their necks, which they, and their fathers, were not able to bear, (Galatians 5:1,3,6) (Acts 15:10,19) .
I like scriptures please so I can look it up on the following two questions.
1.) What does the bible say we are suppose to do to determine if someone is a False Prophet? ( I usually listen to what they say. Take notes. And check my bible to see if what they say is true. I do this with everyone who shares the gospel with me.)
2.) After we determine they are a False Prophet what does the bible say we should do then?
( I warn others of their wrong teachings. I also pray for their hearts to change. I also pray for people's eyes and hears to open to their teachings. I cannot imagine allowing anyone to be decieve by Islam why would I feel any different about WOF if I know in my heart they are wrong.)
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WhiteEagle
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I think what hardcore, caretaker, and Linda are misunderstanding about binding and loosing and the Christians authority over demons are:
I have authority over demons for myself that are affecting me, or when I am praying for another person and we are in agreement to bind Satan or demononic activity.
I do not have authority to bind demons that another person is in agreement with their deception. Free will. The person being prayed for needs to renounce the demonic influence also, or the prayers of a Christian will have no authority.
Jesus cast out demons from people who came to him for help. He didn't cast demons out of people who were gladly accepting the demonic influence, like Judas Iscariot.
I once sliently prayed for the demons to be silent before entering a house I sensed from visiting there previously that the woman was demon lead, as her speech was vile and insulting.
That woman was silent during my visit with her husband. She didn't berate me like she usually did and she ony said she felt confused. But she acted like normal person instead of a person diagnosed with mental illness.
I couldn't free her of those demons, she wouldn't have accepted that. But I did have authority over them when it came to attacking me.
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hardcore
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quote:
Originally posted by HisGrace:
quote:
Originally posted by hardcore:
quote:
Originally posted by wparr:
Matthew 16:19
"I will give you the keys of the kingdom of heaven; and whatever you bind on earth shall have been bound in heaven, and whatever you loose on earth shall have been loosed in heaven."
You have to look at the TENSE of the word
shall have been bound
Another interesting example of how differing bible versions can change a meaning ever so slightly.
Matthew 16:19
wparr's version:
"I will give you the keys of the kingdom of heaven; and whatever you bind on earth shall have been bound in heaven, and whatever you loose on earth shall have been loosed in heaven."
HisGrace's version:
I will give you the keys of the kingdom of heaven; whatever you bind on earth will be bound in heaven, and whateveryou loose on earth will be loosed in heaven."
KJV:
And I will give unto thee the keys of the kingdom of heaven: and whatsoever thou shalt bind on earth shall be bound in heaven: and whatsoever thou shalt loose on earth shall be loosed in heaven.
shall: a -- used to express what is inevitable or seems likely to happen in the future <we shall have to be ready> <we shall see> b -- used to express simple futurity <when shall we expect you>
(KJV)shall be bound in heaven; (NIV)will be bound on earth; ??shall have been bound on earth. 
And your point is hardcore? I think you are grasping at straws.
Grasping at straws for what?
wparr made a comment on tense, and I simply posted three versions for comparison.
That's it. It wasn't meant to be a mind blowing profound statement.
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HisGrace
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quote:
Originally posted by Caretaker:
Originally posted by HisGrace:
A true test to see if something is of the Holy Spirit is to reveal Jesus and his blood. It makes the devil and his imps scurry pretty quickly, because it reminds Satan that he was defeated at the cross, and that his time on this earth is running really short.
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
Chapter and verse please:
Satan is stepping up his fight because he knows his days are numbered.
Godlessness in the Last Days -
2 Timothy 3:1-5 But mark this: There will be terrible times in the last days. People will be lovers of themselves, lovers of money, boastful, proud, abusive, disobedient to their parents, ungrateful, unholy, without love, unforgiving,
slanderous, without self-control, brutal, not lovers of the good, treacherous, rash, conceited, lovers of pleasure rather than lovers of God, having a form of godliness but denying its power. Have nothing to do with them.
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HisGrace
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quote:
Originally posted by hardcore:
quote:
Originally posted by wparr:
Matthew 16:19
"I will give you the keys of the kingdom of heaven; and whatever you bind on earth shall have been bound in heaven, and whatever you loose on earth shall have been loosed in heaven."
You have to look at the TENSE of the word
shall have been bound
Another interesting example of how differing bible versions can change a meaning ever so slightly.
Matthew 16:19
wparr's version:
"I will give you the keys of the kingdom of heaven; and whatever you bind on earth shall have been bound in heaven, and whatever you loose on earth shall have been loosed in heaven."
HisGrace's version:
I will give you the keys of the kingdom of heaven; whatever you bind on earth will be bound in heaven, and whateveryou loose on earth will be loosed in heaven."
KJV:
And I will give unto thee the keys of the kingdom of heaven: and whatsoever thou shalt bind on earth shall be bound in heaven: and whatsoever thou shalt loose on earth shall be loosed in heaven.
shall: a -- used to express what is inevitable or seems likely to happen in the future <we shall have to be ready> <we shall see> b -- used to express simple futurity <when shall we expect you>
(KJV)shall be bound in heaven; (NIV)will be bound on earth; ??shall have been bound on earth.
And your point is hardcore? I think you are grasping at straws.
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HisGrace
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quote:
from hardcore:
Well if you BOUND the devil
WHY IS HE STILL PROWLING AROUND DEVOURING?????
You MUST have failed (along with everyone else who THOUGHT they could bind him)
Is it because YOU LACK FAITH??????????????????
Or is it rather WE CAN'T DO IT (and AREN'T commanded to do it)
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Are you AVOIDING this question because you can't come up with a workable BIBLICAL answer??????
bind him)
Is it because YOU LACK FAITH??????????????????
Or is it rather WE CAN'T DO IT (and AREN'T commanded to do it)
Are you AVOIDING this question because you can't come up with a workable BIBLICAL answer??????
I have pumping out scripture until I am blue in the face. It is up to you whether or not you choose to ignore them.
quote:
Originally posted by helpforhomeschoolers:
The really sad thing is that every time a Christian trys to bind Satan, he steps out of the place of his authority in the Spirit and into the flesh, where he can then be devoured. If you are walking in the spirit, satan is of no consequince to you as you are not of the world though you are in it.
Our victory is found in remaining in the Spirit where Satan has no authority over us. Satan is bound when you do not step out of the spirit and into the flesh. If you are minding (giving attention or mind to)the things of this world or the things of your flesh, then you are not binding but loosing the devil.
The blood did not give us authority over Satan, it took us from his authority and put us not in the flesh, but in the Spirit (where God is in authority.
Well I am not that perfect that the devil doesn't come along and tempt me with being resentment or angry. At those times sometimes there is a real battle with the devil. Funny, even Paul wasn't perfect - he had a thorn in the flesh. I didn't know there were any perfect Christians.
Matthew 16:19 AND I WILL GIVE UNTO THEE the keys of the kingdom of heaven: and whatsoever thou shalt bind on earth shall be bound in heaven: and whatsoever thou shalt loose on earth shall be loosed in heaven.
What do you think 'bind' means? It is obvious that it means something very evil. Evil means the devil.
quote:
From HFHS - The whole mindset of WOF... bless me, bless me bless me, heal me, heal me, fill me fill me, give me a rehema word, give me a better Job, more money, a nicer car, more money, more time, more more more... like Hardcore said, as if God were a vending machine, is a walk of minding the flesh and the things of the flesh and this world.
This is a gross exaggeration. Believe me, God has never been a vending machine to me. Blessings only come when I walk in his perfect will and be learn patience, and even then I am are still waiting for answers after many years.
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hardcore
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quote:
Originally posted by HisGrace:
quote:
Originally posted by hardcore:
HisGrace,
I'm curious.
Do you ever admit that you're wrong?
Or better yet, do you ever think that you're wrong?
I have never haughtily made any attacks on anyone with such strong words as telling them that they are manipulating or twisting the scriptures, or accused them of having a cavalier attitude, such has been said of me.
I even had the grace enough to say of HFHS quote:
I agree 100% - HFHS has given us a tremendous amount of food for thought. ![[thumbsup2]](graemlins/thumbsup2.gif)
Sorry. I missed this. I said to WhiteEagle below that I didn't think you'd respond.
I guess you did respond, but you didn't answer any of my questions.
If there are some ("some" being those who have a proven track record in sound biblical doctrine) who accuse you of having a cavalier attitude and manipulating or twisting doctrine, would it not ever occur to you that maybe they're right?
That was the point I was trying to make with my questions to you. These statements have been made about you many times. Do you think that there might be a reason? You have been proven wrong, with scripture, time and time again, and yet you are more stubborn than ever. You continue to do nothing but argue, deny, and defend men who are undeniably false teachers.
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Caretaker
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Amen and Amen!!
--------------------
A Servant of Christ,
Drew
1 Tim. 3:
16: And without controversy great is the mystery of godliness: God was manifest in the flesh..
Posts: 3978 | From: Council Grove, KS USA | Registered: Jun 2002
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helpforhomeschoolers
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posted
The really sad thing is that every time a Christian trys to bind Satan, he steps out of the place of his authority in the Spirit and into the flesh, where he can then be devoured. If you are walking in the spirit, satan is of no consequince to you as you are not of the world though you are in it.
Our victory is found in remaining in the Spirit where Satan has no authority over us. Satan is bound when you do not step out of the spirit and into the flesh. If you are minding (giving attention or mind to)the things of this world or the things of your flesh, then you are not binding but loosing the devil.
The blood did not give us authority over Satan, it took us from his authority and put us not in the flesh, but in the Spirit (where God is in authority.
The whole mindset of WOF... bless me, bless me bless me, heal me, heal me, fill me fill me, give me a rehema word, give me a better Job, more money, a nicer car, more money, more time, more more more... like Hardcore said, as if God were a vending machine, is a walk of minding the flesh and the things of the flesh and this world.
Hello Church! You are already blessed with ALL spiritual blessings in heavenly places! You are already healed by HIS stripes; You are already seated with HIM in the heavenlies far above all dominions, powers principalities and might. Walk by faith and not by sight in your spirit and you will not be asking for things earthly, not be minding what it looks like your flesh is lacking of the things of this world; walk not in the flesh and do not give mind to the things of your flesh or of this world and you will be lack Paul....full of PEACE JOY and POWER in the Holy Ghost having nothing and yet possessing all things; all will be well with your soul whether you are in abundance or abased, whether your flesh is sick or well.
The way of the worldly church is to believe it being increased in goods, has everything and to find that it has nothing, is wretched naked, and lukewarm.
The way of Christ's church and Paul's church was to know that having nothing in this world; it possessed all things, having peace, power and joy in the Holy Ghost in this life in the flesh and all spiritual blessings in the heavenlies.
To live is Christ to die Gain!
Jesus preached: Matthew 6:25 Therefore I say unto you, Take no thought for your life, what ye shall eat, or what ye shall drink; nor yet for your body, what ye shall put on. Is not the life more than meat, and the body than raiment?
Matthew 6:31 Therefore take no thought, saying, What shall we eat? or, What shall we drink? or, Wherewithal shall we be clothed?
Matthew 10:19 But when they deliver you up, take no thought how or what ye shall speak: for it shall be given you in that same hour what ye shall speak.
Mark 13:11 But when they shall lead you, and deliver you up, take no thought beforehand what ye shall speak, neither do ye premeditate: but whatsoever shall be given you in that hour, that speak ye: for it is not ye that speak, but the Holy Ghost.
Luke 12:22 And he said unto his disciples, Therefore I say unto you, Take no thought for your life, what ye shall eat; neither for the body, what ye shall put on.
Paul taught: Philippians 4:6 Be careful for nothing; but in every thing by prayer and supplication with thanksgiving let your requests be made known unto God.
Be careful for nothing - care about nothing, but care about everything by prayer and supplication with thankgiving let God know your petition.
There is not any binding the devil here; there is no ordering him to get out of your life; there is no speaking to the devil period here; there is no pleading the blood here; there is no praying with power here... the word is with (thanksgiving) there is no demanding what is yours here (it is entreating, asking, petitioning)there is no reciting positive affirmations here; there is no getting tough or bold with God and reminding HIM of HIS words; there is no name it and claim it and keep claiming it till it comes here... this is what Jesus taught us prayer looked like:
9 ¶ After this manner therefore pray ye:
Our Father which art in heaven, Hallowed be thy name.
10 Thy kingdom come. Thy will be done in earth, as it is in heaven.
11 Give us this day our daily bread.
12 And forgive us our debts, as we forgive our debtors.
13 And lead us not into temptation, but deliver us from evil: For thine is the kingdom, and the power, and the glory, for ever. Amen.
Posts: 4684 | From: Southern Black Hills of South Dakota | Registered: Jun 2002
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hardcore
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posted
quote:
Originally posted by wparr:
Matthew 16:19
"I will give you the keys of the kingdom of heaven; and whatever you bind on earth shall have been bound in heaven, and whatever you loose on earth shall have been loosed in heaven."
You have to look at the TENSE of the word
shall have been bound
Another interesting example of how differing bible versions can change a meaning ever so slightly.
Matthew 16:19
wparr's version:
"I will give you the keys of the kingdom of heaven; and whatever you bind on earth shall have been bound in heaven, and whatever you loose on earth shall have been loosed in heaven."
HisGrace's version:
I will give you the keys of the kingdom of heaven; whatever you bind on earth will be bound in heaven, and whateveryou loose on earth will be loosed in heaven."
KJV:
And I will give unto thee the keys of the kingdom of heaven: and whatsoever thou shalt bind on earth shall be bound in heaven: and whatsoever thou shalt loose on earth shall be loosed in heaven.
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Caretaker
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posted
Amen Hardcore, Walt, Linda, Inky,(welcome and that was an excellent article from the AOG, thank you for the link)!!!!!!
Many of us were WOF at one time, until we truly studied God's Word, and His Holy Spirit removed the indoctrinated blinders from our eyes. We could eventually see the money-changing carpet-baggers leading the unknowing astray.
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A Servant of Christ,
Drew
1 Tim. 3:
16: And without controversy great is the mystery of godliness: God was manifest in the flesh..
Posts: 3978 | From: Council Grove, KS USA | Registered: Jun 2002
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hardcore
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posted
quote:
Originally posted by WhiteEagle:
quote:
Originally posted by hardcore:
HisGrace,
I'm curious.
Do you ever admit that you're wrong?
Or better yet, do you ever think that you're wrong?
Do you ever even contemplate for a minute that there's even the slightest chance that you might be wrong?
Caretaker and HFHS are two of the most honest, biblically sound, doctrinally solid Christians I've ever come across. And quite frankly, none of us has any business arguing with either of them unless we've seriously done our homework. You and I aren't even in their league.
Has it ever occured to you that they might have a point - or two or three? Has it ever occured to you that they just might be right?
I realize that you have to admit to yourself that you might be wrong in order to make the jump to this next one, but here goes:
Do you have any idea how many people you might be misleading with your altered version of scripture? Do you care enough to take a step back and reconsider? If not for yourself, then for others?
The teachers that you defend are wrong and they are dangerous, particularly to those who are new in their faith. It is inexcusable for you to defend them, and yet you continually do so.
Seriously HisGrace, please prayerfully reconsider your stance on this topic. Truly (honestly and heartfelt) search for the truth instead of searching for the next out-of-context scripture in an attempt to back-up your argument.
Yada, Yada Yada.
Read my post to Caretaker. ![[BooHoo]](graemlins/boohoo.gif)
I'm sure HisGrace can answer for herself, not that I expect her to do so.
And I'm sorry that you don't understand what a serious issue this is. It is precisely this cavalier attitude by too many in the church that has allowed false teaching to flourish.
I wish that you and HisGrace could hear the many, many, many testimonies from the victims of these types of ministries, as well as the pastors who help them pick up the pieces of their shattered faith.
Just last night I saw a shameful display of deception by Rod Parsley on DayStar. I simply do not understand a Christian's defense of this behavior. And the fact that thousands of professed Christians actually follow and financially support these teachers is beyond comprehension. Of course, scripture tells us this would happen, which is the only acceptable explanation.
You can Yada Yada Yada all day long and mock with violin playing icons, but that only further serves our point.
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wparr
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quote:
Originally posted by HisGrace:
Do you not have the power of the Holy Spirit within you? - hmmmmm.
YUP I DO
THAT'S is how I can DISCERN false teachers (like Copeland and his TBN WOF lackeys)
THAT'S how I can DISCERN false prophets (like Hinn and those other workers of evil on TBN)
THAT'S how I can DISCERN out the doctrines of men and of deceiving spirits.
THAT'S how I can UNDERSTAND IN CONTEXT The Word of God
You didn't address my question to you
quote:
Well if you BOUND the devil
WHY IS HE STILL PROWLING AROUND DEVOURING?????
You MUST have failed (along with everyone else who THOUGHT they could bind him)
Is it because YOU LACK FAITH??????????????????
Or is it rather WE CAN'T DO IT (and AREN'T commanded to do it)
Are you AVOIDING this question because you can't come up with a workable BIBLICAL answer??????
Posts: 1203 | From: Eagle Nest, NM | Registered: Jan 2003
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HisGrace
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quote:
Originally posted by wparr:
Peter IS NOT doing the binding
The binding and loosing TAKES PLACE IN HEAVEN (and NOT by man)
We are to WALK IN OBEDIENCE to what Christ HAS ALREADY DONE
This "I BIND YOU SATAN" is a load of pig poop
Here is the LOOSENING that took place in Heaven.
Do you not have the power of the Holy Spirit within you? - hmmmmm.
Eph.3:18-May be able to comprehend with all saints what is the breadth, and length, and depth, and height;
And to know the love of Christ, which passeth knowledge, that ye might be filled with all the fulness of God.
Now unto him that is able to do exceeding abundantly above all that we ask or think, according to the power that worketh in us,Unto him be glory in the church by Christ Jesus throughout all ages, world without end. Amen.
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wparr
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Matthew 16:19
"I will give you the keys of the kingdom of heaven; and whatever you bind on earth shall have been bound in heaven, and whatever you loose on earth shall have been loosed in heaven."
You have to look at the TENSE of the word
shall have been bound
means IT WAS ALREADY DONE.
Peter IS NOT doing the binding
The binding and loosing TAKES PLACE IN HEAVEN (and NOT by man)
We are to WALK IN OBEDIENCE to what Christ HAS ALREADY DONE
James 4:7-8
(7) Submit therefore to God. Resist the devil and he will flee from you.
(8) Draw near to God and He will draw near to you. Cleanse your hands, you sinners; and purify your hearts, you double-minded.
We are to SUBMIT THEREFORE to God (as opposed to men, our flesh, and deceiving spirits)
We are to RESIST the devil (NOT bind him), THEN he will flee
We are to DRAW NEAR to God
We are to CLEANSE our hands (rid ourselves of sinful doings)
We are to PURIFY our hearts (get rid of the man / world doctrines - teachings - thinking)
This "I BIND YOU SATAN" is a load of pig poop
1 Peter 5:8-9
(8) Be of sober spirit, be on the alert. Your adversary, the devil, prowls around like a roaring lion, seeking someone to devour.
(9) But RESIST him, firm in your faith, knowing that the same experiences of suffering are being accomplished by your brethren who are in the world.
Well if you BOUND the devil
WHY IS HE STILL PROWLING AROUND DEVOURING?????
You MUST have failed (along with everyone else who THOUGHT they could bind him)
Is it because YOU LACK FAITH??????????????????
Or is it rather WE CAN'T DO IT (and AREN'T commanded to do it)
1 John 3:8
the one who practices sin is of the devil; for the devil has sinned from the beginning. The Son of God appeared for this purpose, to destroy the works of the devil.
Here is the LOOSENING that took place in Heaven.
That word DESTROY:
to loose one bound, i.e. to unbind, release from bonds, set free.
so we can RESIST the devil, because Y'shua LOOSED - UNBOUNED satan's works enslaving us.
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HisGrace
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quote:
Originally posted by Caretaker:
HisGrace:
"A true test to see if something is of the Holy Spirit is to reveal Jesus and his blood. It makes the devil and his imps scurry pretty quickly,"
Chapter and verse please!!!!!!!
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
Hebrews 2:14,15 Since the children have flesh and blood, he too shared in their humanity so that by his death he might destroy him who holds the power of death-that is, the devil- and free those who all their lives were held in slavery by their fear of death.
~The following is just before Jesus' walk to the cross, and he predicts how the devil is going to be defeated. I hardly think that Satan gets a very warm and fuzzy feeling whenever he is reminded of this thought -
Matthew 16:17-19 Jesus replied, "Blessed are you, Simon son of Jonah, for this was not revealed to you by man, but by my Father in heaven. And I tell you that you are Peter, and on this rock I will build my church, and the gates of Hades will not overcome it.
I will give you the keys of the kingdom of heaven; whatever you bind on earth will be bound in heaven, and whateveryou loose on earth will be loosed in heaven." Then he warned his disciples not to tell anyone that he was the Christ.
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Caretaker
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How many times have these prophets of prosperity bound Satan?
1?
100?
1000's?
Is he bound for 1 sec?
1 minute?
1 hour?
Why does he not stay bound if they have this "authority"?
Is he slippery and keeps slipping out of the binds?
Or could it be that White Eagle and those who she and HisGrace are so adamently supporting, are usurping authority which they have not, and wresting scriptures and deceiving?
Mark 3:
23: And he called them unto him, and said unto them in parables, How can Satan cast out Satan?
24: And if a kingdom be divided against itself, that kingdom cannot stand.
25: And if a house be divided against itself, that house cannot stand.
26: And if Satan rise up against himself, and be divided, he cannot stand, but hath an end.
27: No man can enter into a strong man's house, and spoil his goods, except he will first bind the strong man; and then he will spoil his house.
28: Verily I say unto you, All sins shall be forgiven unto the sons of men, and blasphemies wherewith soever they shall blaspheme:
29: But he that shall blaspheme against the Holy Ghost hath never forgiveness, but is in danger of eternal damnation:
http://www.letusreason.org/Pent13.htm
We cannot Christianize the world but we can make individual people Christians. Not by binding the demons to set them free but by preaching the Gospel and making disciples.
Looking at Mk.3:27 If one is being instructed by Jesus to bind Satan first so that the Gospel will not be obstructed then he himself did not follow his own explanation and neither did his apostles. We cannot stop other people from committing their sins by binding the demons. While prayer does move the hand of God to do miraculous things we do not have the authority to do what only God himself can do. Essentially each person has to make a choice on their own. If someone does not want to be delivered we cannot force deliverance over a person or a city. Spiritual warfare is a personal resistance for each of us against our own sinful desires which the enemy will use to his advantage. He will try to annul our effectiveness and tempt us to walk contrary to the word of God.
If one were to look at the scripture without any preconceived ideas, what is found is that prayer is address to God only. In Gal. 5:19-22, much of what is blamed on demons is really man's fallen nature, expressing itself through his flesh. Although demons can entice and exaggerate our flesh indulgences we can honestly blame ourselves for most of the activity we see today.
While we see in scripture Satan is the prince of this world, John 12:31 God of this world 2 Cor. 4:4 and the prince of power of the Eph. 2:2.
We can in no way draw a conclusion of cultural demonization in which whole cities, ethnic groups, and religions are involved, and that we as Christians come to set people free by binding the strong man and his hold. While it is true that religions have a spiritual deception, there are many invented by mans imagination and that one does not have to be religious to be blind to the Gospel.
*In Pagan theology when one would win the battle over another god they received his goods and territory. To pull down the head demon over an area and they will win that property for the Lord. Gnostics believed in strongholds located over cities in the sky. This is similar to the underlying philosophy of the Spiritual Warfare movement that we take it back with force reclaiming the cities for God. In Zoroatrianism, a Persian Gnostic religion there was the concept of two major Gods …”A good god rules the spiritual world and a bad god rules the physical realm….the problem of evil is solved by blaming everything that goes wrong on the bad god (the devil); the good god is seen no more than a counter balance. One is left with the impression that the two gods each possess equal power both in quality and quantity. Everything that is wrong in the world is the fault of the bad god. And its up to the initiate or believer to make sure the good god wins” (The Agony of deceit, moody press pp.133)
In the religion of the Vikings Odin the head God did good and whenever something went wrong it was the evil one Loki. Today people think God always does good and gives them abundance and its the devil who takes away and makes them suffer or hinders prayers. The bible teaches that God does destroy as well, and will take away things if he sees fit to do so, its not always an either or situation.
Paul was confronted with a whole city given over to idolatry in Acts17, how does he deal with this situation? He did not go into warfare prayer against their main gods Zeus or Apollo nor bind their idolatry. As he went into the synagogues and market place each day it ended on Mars hill where he challenged all the philosophies of their day. He promoted scripture and reasoned to them with the teaching of Christ, specifically the resurrection something he knew they would have a hard time with. He challenged them to make a decision.
--------------------
A Servant of Christ,
Drew
1 Tim. 3:
16: And without controversy great is the mystery of godliness: God was manifest in the flesh..
Posts: 3978 | From: Council Grove, KS USA | Registered: Jun 2002
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Caretaker
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http://www.letusreason.org/Pent13.htm
Jude 8- 10 - The author describes people in the church who despise authority and speak evil of those who god has given positions of dominion in. not only do they rebel against the government ( which at the time was a one world government ) but they speak evil of dignitaries Greek- Doxai - glorious ones. Most have interpreted this as the angels, which certainly fits the context. Peter in 2 Pet. Seems to make the same point as Jude follows his structured outline being of a later date. “ and especially those who walk according to the flesh in the lust of uncleanness and despise authority. They are presumptuous, self willed. They are not afraid to speak evil of dignitaries. Whereas angels, who are greater in power and might, do not bring a railing accusation against them before the Lord. Here we have both authors mentioning those who had no respect for those who are in a higher position even though they are fallen and will be judged.
We see even Michael the arch-angel did not condemn Satan, but said, “The Lord rebuke you.” Michael who is even greater than we are did not use insulting words or exert his authority. Satan is still a dignitary of the highest order so there was no disrespect of his office and position even though he is an enemy. He deferred the issue to God, he trusted the Lord to step in between them on this issue. If an angel of this order is careful with how he treats the enemy how much more should we be.
Vs. 8 and I0 describe people who speak evil of fallen angels because of having little understanding of who they are speaking to.
To sum up all this, we simply do not have the kind of authority or power to put demons in chains or chase them away from the cities. Those who claim to be doing this are not doing too good a job anyway. If they bind him how long does this last since his work continues? By now every demon and his cousin should have been incarcerated. Who’s the joker that keeps letting him loose? The Bible tells us the world will come increasingly evil, that perilous times will come (they have already arrived) we are not going to turn it around. This will culminate by the seals being broken and judgment poured out on a rebellious mankind. We can’t bind Satan, for he will be bound for one thousand years in the millennium by a specific angel. This does not exclude us from doing good and being light and salt in a society that is putrefying.
Yet today, we do have the authority and the strength to resist the devil's temptations and lies by submitting to God, standing in Christ, and putting on His armor. (Ephesians 6:12; James 4:7)
By being in the world and not influenced from it we are obedient to Jesus, the evil one cannot touch us. In John 17:15, Jesus prays we would be kept from the evil one. We are able to resist his temptations, because greater is He who is in us than he who is in the world. By walking in the light, we have discernment of his schemes and the evil one cannot overcome us and take us captive, that light is in the word.
--------------------
A Servant of Christ,
Drew
1 Tim. 3:
16: And without controversy great is the mystery of godliness: God was manifest in the flesh..
Posts: 3978 | From: Council Grove, KS USA | Registered: Jun 2002
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WhiteEagle
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posted
quote:
Originally posted by hardcore:
HisGrace,
I'm curious.
Do you ever admit that you're wrong?
Or better yet, do you ever think that you're wrong?
Do you ever even contemplate for a minute that there's even the slightest chance that you might be wrong?
Caretaker and HFHS are two of the most honest, biblically sound, doctrinally solid Christians I've ever come across. And quite frankly, none of us has any business arguing with either of them unless we've seriously done our homework. You and I aren't even in their league.
Has it ever occured to you that they might have a point - or two or three? Has it ever occured to you that they just might be right?
I realize that you have to admit to yourself that you might be wrong in order to make the jump to this next one, but here goes:
Do you have any idea how many people you might be misleading with your altered version of scripture? Do you care enough to take a step back and reconsider? If not for yourself, then for others?
The teachers that you defend are wrong and they are dangerous, particularly to those who are new in their faith. It is inexcusable for you to defend them, and yet you continually do so.
Seriously HisGrace, please prayerfully reconsider your stance on this topic. Truly (honestly and heartfelt) search for the truth instead of searching for the next out-of-context scripture in an attempt to back-up your argument.
Yada, Yada Yada.
Read my post to Caretaker.
Posts: 1392 | From: Maine | Registered: Aug 2004
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WhiteEagle
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posted
quote:
Originally posted by Caretaker:
Originally posted by HisGrace:
A true test to see if something is of the Holy Spirit is to reveal Jesus and his blood. It makes the devil and his imps scurry pretty quickly, because it reminds Satan that he was defeated at the cross, and that his time on this earth is running really short.
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
Chapter and verse please:
HisGrace:
"A true test to see if something is of the Holy Spirit is to reveal Jesus and his blood. It makes the devil and his imps scurry pretty quickly,"
---------------------------------------
Chapter and verse please!!!!!!!
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
Read the book of 1 John.
Test the spirits...1 John 4:1-3
I John 5:4-8 For everyone born of God overcomes the world. This is the victory that has overcome the world, even our faith. Who is it that overcomes the world? Only he who believes that Jesus is the Son of God. This is the one who came by water and blood-Jesus Christ He did not come by water only, but by water and blood. And it is the Spirit who testifies because the Spirit is truth. for their are three that testify; the Spirit, the water and the blood, and the three are in agreement.
Binding and loosing:
Matthew 16:16-19
"Simon Peter answered, "You are the Christ, the Son of the Living God". Jesus replied,"Blessed are you, Simon son of Jonah, for this was not revealed to you by man, but by My Father in heaven. And I tell you, that you are Peter, and on this rock I will build my church, and the gates of hell will not overcome it. I will give you the keys of the kingdom of heaven: whatever you bind on earth will be bound in heaven, and whatever you loose on earth will be loosed in heaven.
Matthew 18:18 " I tell you the truth, whatever you bind on earth will be bound in heaven and whatever you loose on earth will be loosed in heaven."
Matthew 12:28-30
"But, if I drive out demons by the Spirit of God, then the kingdom of God has come upon you. Or, again, how can anyone enter a strong man's house and carry off his possessions unless he first binds the strongman? The he can rob his house."
Jesus is referring to Satan as the strong man.
Jesus gave Peter the "Keys". Jesus teaches about binding and loosing.
Luke 9:49-50
"Master", said John, "we saw a man driving out demons in your name and we tried to stop him, because he is NOT one of us." Do not stop him said Jesus for whoever is not against you is for you."
Luke 10:17-20
The 72 returned with joy and said, "Lord even the demons SUBMIT to us in YOUR NAME. Jesus relpied, "I Saw Satan fall like lightning from heaven. I have given you authority to trample on snakes and scorpions and to overcome ALL the power of the enemy: nothing will harm you."
However don't rejoice because of that, but rejoice that your names are written in heaven."
Posts: 1392 | From: Maine | Registered: Aug 2004
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Inky
Community Member
Member # 5582
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posted
I was out reading a response to the AOG on a Word Faith website. Apparently they do not like one of AOG position papers against Postive Confession. So I went out to look at it. I had seen the document a few years ago. But I can see that they have really improved up on it too. This is a very good address against Positive Confession itself. They got scripture to back up their position too.
Even if you do not believe in Spiritaul Gifts or Agree with AOG on everything I think you will find this Paper interesting.
http://ag.org/top/Beliefs/Position_Papers/pp_4183_confession.cfm
Posts: 16 | Registered: Mar 2006
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HisGrace
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posted
quote:
Originally posted by hardcore:
HisGrace,
I'm curious.
Do you ever admit that you're wrong?
Or better yet, do you ever think that you're wrong?
I have never haughtily made any attacks on anyone with such strong words as telling them that they are manipulating or twisting the scriptures, or accused them of having a cavalier attitude, such has been said of me.
I even had the grace enough to say of HFHS quote:
I agree 100% - HFHS has given us a tremendous amount of food for thought.
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hardcore
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posted
HisGrace,
I'm curious.
Do you ever admit that you're wrong?
Or better yet, do you ever think that you're wrong?
Do you ever even contemplate for a minute that there's even the slightest chance that you might be wrong?
Caretaker and HFHS are two of the most honest, biblically sound, doctrinally solid Christians I've ever come across. And quite frankly, none of us has any business arguing with either of them unless we've seriously done our homework. You and I aren't even in their league.
Has it ever occured to you that they might have a point - or two or three? Has it ever occured to you that they just might be right?
I realize that you have to admit to yourself that you might be wrong in order to make the jump to this next one, but here goes:
Do you have any idea how many people you might be misleading with your altered version of scripture? Do you care enough to take a step back and reconsider? If not for yourself, then for others?
The teachers that you defend are wrong and they are dangerous, particularly to those who are new in their faith. It is inexcusable for you to defend them, and yet you continually do so.
Seriously HisGrace, please prayerfully reconsider your stance on this topic. Truly (honestly and heartfelt) search for the truth instead of searching for the next out-of-context scripture in an attempt to back-up your argument.
Posts: 627 | Registered: Mar 2005
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HisGrace
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posted
quote:
Originally posted by Caretaker:
When you post error from the teachings of the WOF heresy, then whether you meant por or con, it is contrary to the Word of God.
This statement is error:
"A true test to see if something is of the Holy Spirit is to reveal Jesus and his blood. It makes the devil and his imps scurry pretty quickly,"
Pleading the blood to drive-out demons, to spiritually "bind Satan or demons", to "beat-up" on Satan with the blood, to attack Satan, is a great deal of error and false teaching from the WOF.
I never used the word "plead" when talking about the blood. All we have to do is quote scriptures to remind Satan of the cross.
James 2:17-20 Even so faith if it hath not works, is dead, being alone. Yea, a man may say, Thou hast faith and I have works: shew me thy faith without thy works, and I will shew thee my faith by my works.
Thou believest that there is one God; thou doest well: the devils also believe, and tremble. But wilt thou know, O vain man, that faith without works is dead?
~ Why does the devil tremble? Because he knows the power of faith in the cross.
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helpforhomeschoolers
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posted
Amen Drew. Amen also Inky thanks for the testimony.
Posts: 4684 | From: Southern Black Hills of South Dakota | Registered: Jun 2002
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Caretaker
Advanced Member
Member # 36
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posted
When you post error from the teachings of the WOF heresy, then whether you meant por or con, it is contrary to the Word of God.
This statement is error:
"A true test to see if something is of the Holy Spirit is to reveal Jesus and his blood. It makes the devil and his imps scurry pretty quickly,"
Pleading the blood to drive-out demons, to spiritually "bind Satan or demons", to "beat-up" on Satan with the blood, to attack Satan, is a great deal of error and false teaching from the WOF.
http://www.letusreason.org/Pent13.htm
Jude 8- 10 - The author describes people in the church who despise authority and speak evil of those who god has given positions of dominion in. not only do they rebel against the government ( which at the time was a one world government ) but they speak evil of dignitaries Greek- Doxai - glorious ones. Most have interpreted this as the angels, which certainly fits the context. Peter in 2 Pet. Seems to make the same point as Jude follows his structured outline being of a later date. “ and especially those who walk according to the flesh in the lust of uncleanness and despise authority. They are presumptuous, self willed. They are not afraid to speak evil of dignitaries. Whereas angels, who are greater in power and might, do not bring a railing accusation against them before the Lord. Here we have both authors mentioning those who had no respect for those who are in a higher position even though they are fallen and will be judged.
We see even Michael the arch-angel did not condemn Satan, but said, “The Lord rebuke you.” Michael who is even greater than we are did not use insulting words or exert his authority. Satan is still a dignitary of the highest order so there was no disrespect of his office and position even though he is an enemy. He deferred the issue to God, he trusted the Lord to step in between them on this issue. If an angel of this order is careful with how he treats the enemy how much more should we be.
Vs. 8 and I0 describe people who speak evil of fallen angels because of having little understanding of who they are speaking to.
To sum up all this, we simply do not have the kind of authority or power to put demons in chains or chase them away from the cities. Those who claim to be doing this are not doing too good a job anyway. If they bind him how long does this last since his work continues? By now every demon and his cousin should have been incarcerated. Who’s the joker that keeps letting him loose? The Bible tells us the world will come increasingly evil, that perilous times will come (they have already arrived) we are not going to turn it around. This will culminate by the seals being broken and judgment poured out on a rebellious mankind. We can’t bind Satan, for he will be bound for one thousand years in the millennium by a specific angel. This does not exclude us from doing good and being light and salt in a society that is putrefying.
Yet today, we do have the authority and the strength to resist the devil's temptations and lies by submitting to God, standing in Christ, and putting on His armor. (Ephesians 6:12; James 4:7)
By being in the world and not influenced from it we are obedient to Jesus, the evil one cannot touch us. In John 17:15, Jesus prays we would be kept from the evil one. We are able to resist his temptations, because greater is He who is in us than he who is in the world. By walking in the light, we have discernment of his schemes and the evil one cannot overcome us and take us captive, that light is in the word.
--------------------
A Servant of Christ,
Drew
1 Tim. 3:
16: And without controversy great is the mystery of godliness: God was manifest in the flesh..
Posts: 3978 | From: Council Grove, KS USA | Registered: Jun 2002
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wparr
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posted
And HOW do "reveal" the blood???
Posts: 1203 | From: Eagle Nest, NM | Registered: Jan 2003
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Caretaker
Advanced Member
Member # 36
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posted
Originally posted by HisGrace:
A true test to see if something is of the Holy Spirit is to reveal Jesus and his blood. It makes the devil and his imps scurry pretty quickly, because it reminds Satan that he was defeated at the cross, and that his time on this earth is running really short.
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
Chapter and verse please:
HisGrace:
"A true test to see if something is of the Holy Spirit is to reveal Jesus and his blood. It makes the devil and his imps scurry pretty quickly,"
---------------------------------------
Chapter and verse please!!!!!!!
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
--------------------
A Servant of Christ,
Drew
1 Tim. 3:
16: And without controversy great is the mystery of godliness: God was manifest in the flesh..
Posts: 3978 | From: Council Grove, KS USA | Registered: Jun 2002
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HisGrace
unregistered
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posted
quote:
Originally posted by Caretaker:
Originally posted by HisGrace:
A true test to see if something is of the Holy Spirit is to reveal Jesus and his blood. It makes the devil and his imps scurry pretty quickly, because it reminds Satan that he was defeated at the cross, and that his time on this earth is running really short.
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
Chapter and verse please:
I was not adding any further comments pro or con about anyone. My words only fall on deaf ears. I was simply leaving it in God's hands and everyone's conscience.
You don't have to justify anything to me. What does The Truth say?
Isaiah 55:11 So shall my word be that goeth forth out of my mouth: it shall not return unto me void, but it shall accomplish that which I please, and it shall prosper in the thing whereto I sent it.
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Caretaker
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posted
Originally posted by HisGrace:
A true test to see if something is of the Holy Spirit is to reveal Jesus and his blood. It makes the devil and his imps scurry pretty quickly, because it reminds Satan that he was defeated at the cross, and that his time on this earth is running really short.
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
Chapter and verse please:
HisGrace:
"A true test to see if something is of the Holy Spirit is to reveal Jesus and his blood. It makes the devil and his imps scurry pretty quickly,"
Chapter and verse please!!!!!!!
Galatians 1:6-9
6 I marvel that ye are so soon removed from him that called you into the grace of Christ unto another gospel:
7 Which is not another; but there be some that trouble you, and would pervert the gospel of Christ.
8 But though we, or an angel from heaven, preach any other gospel unto you than that which we have preached unto you, let him be accursed.
9 As we said before, so say I now again, If any man preach any other gospel unto you than that ye have received, let him be accursed.
2 Cor. 11:
13 For such are false apostles, deceitful workers, transforming themselves into the apostles of Christ.
14 And no marvel; for Satan himself is transformed into an angel of light.
15 Therefore it is no great thing if his ministers also be transformed as the ministers of righteousness; whose end shall be according to their works.
HisGrace you have consistantly defended any televangelist who says the name of Jesus, REGARDLESS of their doctrine and teachings. You consistantly defend liars, false prophets, and deceivers of the un-grounded in the Word.
2 Tim 3:
1: This know also, that in the last days perilous times shall come.
2: For men shall be lovers of their own selves, covetous, boasters, proud, blasphemers, disobedient to parents, unthankful, unholy,
3: Without natural affection, trucebreakers, false accusers, incontinent, fierce, despisers of those that are good,
4: Traitors, heady, highminded, lovers of pleasures more than lovers of God;
5: Having a form of godliness, but denying the power thereof: from such turn away.
6: For of this sort are they which creep into houses, and lead captive silly women laden with sins, led away with divers lusts,
7: Ever learning, and never able to come to the knowledge of the truth.
8: Now as Jannes and Jambres withstood Moses, so do these also resist the truth: men of corrupt minds, reprobate concerning the faith.
9: But they shall proceed no further: for their folly shall be manifest unto all men, as theirs also was.
10: But thou hast fully known my doctrine, manner of life, purpose, faith, longsuffering, charity, patience,
11: Persecutions, afflictions, which came unto me at Antioch, at Iconium, at Lystra; what persecutions I endured: but out of them all the Lord delivered me.
12: Yea, and all that will live godly in Christ Jesus shall suffer persecution.
13: But evil men and seducers shall wax worse and worse, deceiving, and being deceived.
14: But continue thou in the things which thou hast learned and hast been assured of, knowing of whom thou hast learned them;
15: And that from a child thou hast known the holy scriptures, which are able to make thee wise unto salvation through faith which is in Christ Jesus.
16: All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:
17: That the man of God may be perfect, throughly furnished unto all good works.
--------------------
A Servant of Christ,
Drew
1 Tim. 3:
16: And without controversy great is the mystery of godliness: God was manifest in the flesh..
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HisGrace
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posted
A true test to see if something is of the Holy Spirit is to reveal Jesus and his blood. It makes the devil and his imps scurry pretty quickly, because it reminds Satan that he was defeated at the cross, and that his time on this earth is running really short.
1 John 1:7 But if we walk in the light, as he is in the light, we have fellowship one with another, and the blood of Jesus Christ his Son cleanseth us from all sin. ![[Cross]](graemlins/cross.gif)
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Inky
Community Member
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posted
Thanks for that information. Especially Joyce Meyer. I needed to see that. I went and looked at a commentary on the scriptures you shared. If these scriptures didn't say it I not sure which ones would.:
2 Tim. 4:3-4
For the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine; but after their own lusts shall they heap to themselves teachers, having itching ears; And they shall turn away their ears from the truth, and shall be turned unto fables.
quote:
John Gill's Exposition of the Bible
For the time will come… This is a reason of the solemn charge above given: the time referred to was future, when the apostle wrote, but quickly came on; and the characters of it have appeared more or less in all ages since; and in none more than in ours:
when they will not endure sound doctrine;
the Gospel which contains the wholesome words of Christ, and is sound itself, having no corruption in it, and salutary in its effects to the souls of men; and yet such is the depravity of some men, both in principles and practice, that they cannot receive it, nor bear to hear it, turn their backs on it, express their indignation at it, and treat it not only with neglect, but with ridicule and contempt:
but after their own lusts shall they heap to themselves teachers;
not being content with the ministry of one man only, or of a few, though of their own sort; but must follow many, and have heaps of them; which seems to express not only the number of false teachers which they accumulate to themselves, but the confused and indiscreet choice they make of them; and that after their own lusts; choosing to hear such as either indulge them in their sinful lusts and pleasures; or are agreeable to their private corrupt sentiments, in opposition to the generally received doctrine of faith. It is a blessing to have pastors and teachers after God's heart, and who preach according to the word of God; these feed men with knowledge and understanding, ( Jeremiah 3:15 ) but it is a curse upon a people, when they are left to choose teachers after their hearts' lusts:
having itching ears;
always desirous of new things, as the Athenians of old; or loving to have their ears scratched and tickled with smooth things; that are pleasing and agreeable to natural men, and carnal minds; as the purity of human nature, the power of man's free will, the excellency of his righteousness, and the merit of his works, and the like; see ( Isaiah 30:9,10 ) . Now, this being the case, should not discourage, but rather animate the ministers of the Gospel to preach it; for should they desist, in all likelihood the Gospel would soon be gone.
That really gives one something to think about.
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Caretaker
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posted
Hinn is a fraud, a liar, a deceiver, and an absolute false prophet, a money-grubbing snakeoil salesman in the House of the Lord.
Open your eyes, your ears, and your heart to the truth of God's eternal Word, and it is certainly not to be found in the false apostles of the Word of Faith Movement, and their teaching which tickles the ears and stirs the imaginations.
2 Tim. 4:
3: For the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine; but after their own lusts shall they heap to themselves teachers, having itching ears;
4: And they shall turn away their ears from the truth, and shall be turned unto fables.
"Here's the way you activate a miracle. You're not responsible to perform a miracle, only to begin a miracle. And you do that with a seed...You don't believe that God delivers through the power of sowing a seed? Then you'll get a strong arument from me...I hear those phones begining to ring. I'm believing God with you for the greatest breakthrough miracle of your life. I sense the anointing of the Holy Spirit...As we agree together for the greatest miracle, go to your phone. Go to your phone. I sense in my spirit that many of your needs can only be represented by a $1,000 seed."
(Rod Parsley,, Daystar Fall, "Share-A-Thon," September 16, 2004)
"I want the privilege of praying over your seed. I want to pray over your seed and it would be ridiculous for me to pray that God to give it back to you. Because if all He was going to do was give it back to you, you ought to keep it and then you would just have it. That's ridiculous! You got a $100 or a $1,000 and you're gonna give a $1,000 and I tell you God is going to give $1,000 back. Well, you just broke even! You could have kept that $1,000 and not gone through the trouble! Come on church folk! But God is going to give you some more on top of that. And as you sow it [a person shouts, 'Increase!'] I dare you to say it again, [The audience shouts, 'Increase!']. Oh My God! Woo, we're about to get ours in here. I don't know what you're getting out there. Well, we're about, somebody shout, 'Increase!'"
(T. D. Jakes, "Bible Answer Man Show," Hank Hanegraaff, Audio-Clip, July 30, 2004)
"There is no hope of anyone going to heaven unless they believe this truth I am presenting. You cannot go to heaven unless you believe with all your heart that Jesus took your place in hell."
(Joyce Meyer, The Most Important Decision You Will Ever Make Booklet, pg. 37, 1991 edition)
"Our words are containers of power. The power of life and death is in the tongue."
(Joyce Meyer, "What Does Your Future Hold?" TBN, May 24, 2004)
"We can kill the plan of God for our lives with a negative confession."
(Joyce Meyer, "Mind, Mouth, Moods, and Attitudes," tape 2 of 4 the "Mouth")
"I want to say it again, be sure you're not killing God's good plan for your life by letting negative words come out of our mouth all of the time. I believe that wrong words affect our health. I would go so far as to say that there are people here today that you may be sick in your body simply because of speaking wrong words, negative words."
(Joyce Meyer, "Mind, Mouth, Moods, and Attitudes," tape 2 of 4 the "Mouth")
Unknown Man: "Why should we do anything to encourage people to become lovers of themselves if Paul in fact warned Timothy that would be the state of Godlessness in the last days?"
Robert Schuller: "I hope you don't preach this. I hope you don't. You would do a lot of damage to a lot of beautiful people. And so, if you preach that text, oh, Man! They'll switch you off! They'll turn on the rock music and Madonna. So please, that stuff, there are Bible passages, just because it's in the Bible doesn't mean you should preach it! But are we so corrupt and are we totally unable to do any good and inclined towards all evil? The answer in the Catechism says, 'Yes, unless we are born again by the Spirit of God.' I don't think that I'll accept that answer. I know people that are not Christians, they're not born again, but they're very kind people. I have to say they do alot of good."
Unknown Man: "Well, Paul says, 'There is no one who does good. No, not one."
Robert Schuller: "Well, I'm not going to say that because I think that leads ultimately to holier than thou-ism self righteousness. And that comes out of the personality of the preacher and it does untold damage."
(Robert Schuller. Audio-Clip from, "Resources on Televangelism," White Horse Inn, Michael Horton)
"To be born again means that we must be changed from a negative to a positive self-image -- from inferiority to self-esteem, from fear to love, from doubt to trust."
(Robert Schuller, "Self-Esteem: the New Reformation," page 68)
"Classical theology has erred in its insistence that theology be 'God-centered,' not 'man-centered'."
(Robert Schuller, "Self-Esteem: the New Reformation," page 64)
"If the gospel of Jesus Christ can be proclaimed as a theology of self-esteem, imagine the health this could generate in society!"
(Robert Schuller, "Self-Esteem: the New Reformation," page 47)
"And what is hell?...A person is in hell when he has lost his self-esteem."(Robert Schuller, "Self-Esteem: the New Reformation," page 14-15)
"Self-esteem then, or 'pride in being a human being,' is the single greatest need facing the human race today."
(Robert Schuller, "Self-Esteem: the New Reformation," page 19)
"God has spoken to you and right now I want you to obey that God is speaking to send in a sacrificial seed. He's telling you an instruction of the Lord, an illogical instruction. Well, Paula you don't understand. I'm telling you, I need to be obedient to the Lord. Cause God even spoke to people, their vacation money, savings, CD's, and investments and you looked at it and said, 'But God, this is it.' And God spoke to you and He told you to sow that into the kingdom of God. And when you obey, that which God has promised to you shall come to pass."
(Paula White, "This Is Your Day," Benny Hinn Show," July 23, 2004)
"And there are people right now that God spoke to and that's why God says, 'When you vow a vow to the Lord and if you take that for yourself it is very dangerous.' There are people pastor Benny, I feel the anointing right now [Benny Hinn: I do too] and they don't even understand spiritually what they have done. Because they have touched something holy. What they vowed to the Lord, they said, 'Yes, Benny Hinn, I will support you crusades. Yes, I will send you over.' And you said to the nations, 'Here I come,' you said to the nations, 'I will go.' Because they vowed a vow and then at a time they said, 'Well,' and took it to themselves and don't even understand spiritually the consequences. But, even now God is giving revelation to say, 'Why sit there till you die?' And God's going to give you a second chance. And there's someone that needs to say, I feel the Holy Spirit saying, 'You need to be obedient to the first instruction of the Lord.' The Lord spoke to you to support this ministry. The Lord spoke to you to support the kingdom of God, to send that seed in. And you even held back yourself and didn't even understand what the spiritual ramifications that happened."
(Paula White, "This Is Your Day," Benny Hinn Show," July 23, 2004)
"I promise when you give this Passover Offering, God is going to do a miracle...God says, 'Go to the phone.'...God is speaking to somebody right now to give $2,000 right now!...You must go to the phone. Five $200 gifts. Go to the phone! What I'd like for you to do is, I'd like for you to put immediately something on the credit card, right now....Go to your phone. Five $200 offerings. Two $200 gifts. A $400 gift. A $600 gift. The Lord is speaking! This cannot be a light blessing."
(Steve Munsey, "This Is Your Day," Benny Hinn Show, March 16, 2005)
"Hezekiah turns his face, if I can do this. He turns his face, the Bible says, 'To the wall.' He starts weeping and prays this prayer and he says these words, 'Lord, I pray now that you will remember what I did for you.' All of the sudden, God says, 'What did he do for me?' And it dawned on Him [God] he restored the Passover Offering..." (See Isaiah 38-39)
(Steve Munsey, "This Is Your Day," Benny Hinn Show, March 16, 2005)
Note: It dawned on God? This is blasphemy! Nothing dawns on the All Knowing King of the Universe! "Great is our Lord, and of great power: his understanding is infinite," Psalm 147:5.
"He [God] said, 'Tell the people to give five $200 offerings. And He said, 'Give three $200 offerings, two $200 offerings."
(Steve Munsey, "This Is Your Day," Benny Hinn Show, March 16, 2005)
"If they stand before Me [God] empty handed, there will be no angel that will protect them! No angel to lead them to their miracle. Their sickness will stay in their body and I [God] will not be able to fight their enemies nor give them longevity of life..."
(Steve Munsey, "This Is Your Day," Benny Hinn Show, March 16, 2005)
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A Servant of Christ,
Drew
1 Tim. 3:
16: And without controversy great is the mystery of godliness: God was manifest in the flesh..
Posts: 3978 | From: Council Grove, KS USA | Registered: Jun 2002
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SoftTouch
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Wow... this is Sadder then words can express ![[Frown]](frown.gif)
Sometimes I wonder if Jesus Himself came down and grabbed some folks by the shoulders - spoke the Truth Directly to them face to face - if their eyes and ears would be open then?
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Psalm 119:104Through thy precepts I get understanding: therefore I hate every false way. 105Thy word is a lamp unto my feet, and a light unto my path.
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HisGrace
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Strange, but any of the WOF speakers I have listened to lift up Jesus and the saving power of His blood on that cruel cross.
Colossians 1:20
and through him to reconcile to himself all things, whether things on earth or things in heaven, by making peace through his blood, shed on the cross
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SoftTouch
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Welcome to the Board Inky ![[Smile]](smile.gif) And PRAISE GOD for Your Testimony! And for pulling you out of that church and opening your eyes to the deception there!
Thank You for sharing that!
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Psalm 119:104Through thy precepts I get understanding: therefore I hate every false way. 105Thy word is a lamp unto my feet, and a light unto my path.
Posts: 3465 | Registered: Nov 2003
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