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Author
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Topic: Examine the Word Faith Teachers
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SoftTouch
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Member # 2316
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posted
Amen Sister Linda! Those are Definitely Words of Wisdom! (But it was still encouraging to read Hardcore's post - I was getting weary ![[Wink]](wink.gif) )
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Psalm 119:104Through thy precepts I get understanding: therefore I hate every false way. 105Thy word is a lamp unto my feet, and a light unto my path.
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hardcore
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posted
quote:
Originally posted by SoftTouch:
... to Truly See what these false teachers teach, you have to carefully listen when they ‘preach’ cause that’s when the heresy starts flying! Just watch TBN for a while… it’s sure to pop up! It always does.
AMEN and AMEN.
I bust Kenneth Copeland on something almost every time I see him, and practically all Benny Hinn or Jesse Duplantis have to do is open their mouths. And what's up with Hagee hanging with those two? Did you see the picture?
Joyce Meyer is a little tougher. She tends to have more good sprinkled in with her bad, and the way she phrases things is harder to catch sometimes. You almost have to watch for a while. A lot of times her overall message will have a good point, but the way she gets there isn't right.
Oh well. Thankfully God can use them in spite of themselves; not unlike the rest of us.
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helpforhomeschoolers
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posted
DEB: I think that most of the people who are blessed by a post are ones that never themselves post. Over the years I received many many emails of testimony and encouragement from people who for what ever reasons did not themselves post but were blessed by something someone wrote here that was exactly what they had been praying about or needed to hear at the time. Sometimes I dont even think that we are supposed to know all the people's live that we touch in this life. Paul said I sow; Apollos waters; God gives the increase. Sometimes God will let us know we have blessed someone to encourage us when we are weary, but I think those are really exceptions and the most of the time...we dont know and aren't even supposed to know. It keeps us from every thinking that it is about us.
KP Yohanna tells a story about his mother. One day he was upset with her because she was wearing this tatered old dress. He was fussing with her..told her that she brought shame to her sons because she looked like a raggamuffin and her sons provided for her that she could have bought a new dress every week if she wanted. She was a tiny little woman frail and about maybe 80 90 pounds, but she got in his face somewhat and told him that he did not know anything, but one day he would know. When she died, it so happened that he was with her in their native India. His brothers who were also scattered around the world called and the subject came up of their inheiritance.. they all had been sending her money for many many years and they knew that she lived like a pauper, so they figured there must be an inheritiance in th bank somewhere. But KP told them no... no inheritiance... he had found a scribbled piece of paper under her bed, it was a ledger...all the money that she received...she was sending away supporting missionaries preachng the Gospel. KP, now understood. She never in this life saw the fruit of her labor, but i am very sure that she had stores of treasure in heaven. I think that this is true whether our labor is the labor of saving and sending or whether it is preaching HIS truth, or whether it is speaking against apostasy or writing songs that touch someone's heart and lead them to seek Christ... what ever it is that our little joint in this body supplies.. it supplies because GOD supplied it and we may never know in this life the fruits of our labors and that is because for us our labors are about obedience and nothing more and the treasure... our reward is not here and not of things earthy or things that will pass with time, or things that will see corruption, but it is with HIM in heaven and there is where we will know the bounty of fruits of our labor in the right season. So for now, we just run the race pressing on toward the goal.
Posts: 4684 | From: Southern Black Hills of South Dakota | Registered: Jun 2002
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SoftTouch
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Member # 2316
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posted
quote:
Originally posted by hardcore:
But I can attest, due to the many e-mails that East receives on a regular basis; there are a whole lot of people who are reached that most of us are unaware of.
PRAISE GOD!!!!! That's Encouraging!!!!! ![[clap2]](graemlins/clap2.gif)
That's why I keep 'knocking my head against this brick wall' (  ) with these couple of folks here
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Psalm 119:104Through thy precepts I get understanding: therefore I hate every false way. 105Thy word is a lamp unto my feet, and a light unto my path.
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hardcore
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posted
quote:
Originally posted by helpforhomeschoolers:
quote:
After reading these preachers web sites, I really have to question WHY the other web sites are putting them down
I coud build you a website taking only information from the Mormon church's website and you would be able to make the same statement.
Such a good point; one that I have unsuccessfully tried to make before. Anyone can say anything they want, or don't want, as the case may be, on a website. Somehow people have the impression that a "ministry" website must be 100% honerable, correct, and true.
The devil doesn't run around in a red suit with horns and a pitchfork. He is far more clever than that. And false teachers certainly don't wear signs around their necks that say "Warning - Don't Listen to Me, I'm a False Teacher".
If a preacher has enough guts to stand in front of a worldwide audience and preach a false gospel, do we really think that their deception doesn't ooze all over their website as well?
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SoftTouch
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Member # 2316
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posted
quote:
Originally posted by helpforhomeschoolers:
quote:
After reading these preachers web sites, I really have to question WHY the other web sites are putting them down
I coud build you a website taking only information from the Mormon church's website and you would be able to make the same statement.
AMEN Sister Linda! To think that False Teachers would actually ‘advertise’ the fact that they teach falsely on their own websites by posting the heretical teachings there is laughable… to Truly See what these false teachers teach, you have to carefully listen when they ‘preach’ cause that’s when the heresy starts flying! Just watch TBN for a while… it’s sure to pop up! It always does.
quote:
2 Corinthians 11:13For such are false apostles, deceitful workers, transforming themselves into the apostles of Christ.
14And no marvel; for Satan himself is transformed into an angel of light.
15Therefore it is no great thing if his ministers also be transformed as the ministers of righteousness; whose end shall be according to their works.
Seems pretty clear to me… those who CLAIM to be ‘ministers of righteousness’ are nothing more then Satans ministers who are false apostles and deceitful workers. Anyone who says: (quoting various WF teachers here) ‘you are a little god man,’ ‘when I hear the words I AM, I just smile and say ‘I Am Too,’ ‘say it with me, I am a little messiah…’ falls directly in this category.
Wake Up Folks!
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Psalm 119:104Through thy precepts I get understanding: therefore I hate every false way. 105Thy word is a lamp unto my feet, and a light unto my path.
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hardcore
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posted
quote:
Originally posted by SoftTouch:
quote:
Originally posted by hardcore:
quote:
Originally posted by SoftTouch:
Excuse me HisGrace but you're wrong. I have Heard and Seen Benny Hinn and Kenneth Copeland make these claims of being 'little god men' and 'little messiahs'
I Stand by what I posted. It is the Truth and Much of the WF teaching is straight out of Gnosticism/New Ageism. That is The Truth.
SoftTouch,
Do you think that some Christians will ever choose the Word of God over the words of men?
The constant defense of the indefensible is unbelievable.
I'm beginning to lose hope. ![[Roll Eyes]](rolleyes.gif)
After two years of 'debating' with the same couple of people, it's no longer about trying to reach those couple of people, but Praying that our efforts to shed the light of Truth on the lies of the WF Movement will reach those who are just reading here ![[Prayer]](graemlins/prayer.gif)
So true. Some who are blind, might always be blind.
But I can attest, due to the many e-mails that East receives on a regular basis; there are a whole lot of people who are reached that most of us are unaware of.
As I posted last month:
"It is better to be divided by truth than united in error; it is better to speak truth that hurts and then heals than to speak a lie; it is better to be hated for telling the truth than to be loved for telling a lie; it is better to stand alone with truth than to be wrong with the multitude...The religion of today is ‘get-along-ism.’ It is time for men and women of God to stand, [even] if they have to stand alone." ~ Adrian Rogers
Keep fighting the good fight SoftTouch!
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helpforhomeschoolers
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posted
quote:
After reading these preachers web sites, I really have to question WHY the other web sites are putting them down
I coud build you a website taking only information from the Mormon church's website and you would be able to make the same statement.
Posts: 4684 | From: Southern Black Hills of South Dakota | Registered: Jun 2002
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BORN AGAIN
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Sister helpforhomeschoolers writes quote:
“Oh, BA... I think that they have defended themselves:[/b] From Paul Crouch, "Praise-a-thon" broadcast on TBN, recorded 4/2/91:[quote]"I think God's given up on a lot of that old rotten Sanhedrin religious crowd, twice dead, plucked up by the roots. I think they're damned and on their way to hell and I don't think there's any redemption for them...the heresy hunters that want to find a little mote of illegal doctrine in some Christian's eye and pluck that little mote out of their eye when they've got the whole forest in their own lives and in their own eyes. I say to hell with you!”
very inappropriate speech on the part of brother Paul Crouch; as bornagain Christians, I don’t think we should ever say to our bornagain brothers or sisters, “go to hell”. Paul Crouch continues (helpforhomeschoolers’ quote): quote:
”Oh hallelujah. Get out of God's way, quit blocking God's bridges or God's gonna shoot you
very inappropriate talk for a bornagain Christian, especially in Paul Crouch’s position. “or God is going to shoot you?” Is Paul C. taking about the God who lets His rain fall and sun to shine on the just and unjust?
Paul Crouch continues ((helpforhomeschoolers’ quote) quote:
I refuse to argue any longer with any of you out there. Don't even call me. If you want to argue doctrine, if you want to straighten out somebody over here, if you want to criticize Ken Copeland for his preaching on faith, or Dad Hagin. Get out of my life! I don't even want to talk to you or hear you. I don't want to see your ugly face! Get out of my face in Jesus' name." {bold by BORN AGAIN} (Paul Crouch, "Praise-a-thon" broadcast on TBN, recorded 4/2/91)
bornagain brother Paul should not say “I don’t want to see your ugly face”, that is too much. quote:
This quote above was taken from a website, and not one that I approve of {bold by BORN AGAIN}, but I will personally testify that I have heard several of the above statements personally at other times from Crouch and similar ones from Hinn, Copeland, and Duplantis.
I don't approve of it either.
with love, BORN AGAIN in the USA
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SoftTouch
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posted
quote:
Originally posted by hardcore:
quote:
Originally posted by SoftTouch:
Excuse me HisGrace but you're wrong. I have Heard and Seen Benny Hinn and Kenneth Copeland make these claims of being 'little god men' and 'little messiahs'
I Stand by what I posted. It is the Truth and Much of the WF teaching is straight out of Gnosticism/New Ageism. That is The Truth.
SoftTouch,
Do you think that some Christians will ever choose the Word of God over the words of men?
The constant defense of the indefensible is unbelievable.
I'm beginning to lose hope.
After two years of 'debating' with the same couple of people, it's no longer about trying to reach those couple of people, but Praying that our efforts to shed the light of Truth on the lies of the WF Movement will reach those who are just reading here
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Psalm 119:104Through thy precepts I get understanding: therefore I hate every false way. 105Thy word is a lamp unto my feet, and a light unto my path.
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hardcore
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posted
quote:
Originally posted by HisGrace:
Somebody has to defend them.
Thank you for admitting in your own words that you defend men who teach a false gospel.
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HisGrace
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posted
quote:
Originally posted by hardcore:
quote:
Originally posted by HisGrace:
That is the problem with all of this cut and paste info. - it is all second-hand material, according to the bias of the author.
Would this also apply to the article you posted from and referred to in this thread "Difference Between Apologists and Heresy Hunters"? [/QB]
You will notice that I took just one little quote from that article and left it up to the posters whether or not they chose to link to it.
Besides, all of these cut and paste articles are making statements that the quotes made by these preachers are the truth, the whole truth and nothing but the truth. Somebody has to defend them.
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hardcore
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posted
quote:
Originally posted by SoftTouch:
Excuse me HisGrace but you're wrong. I have Heard and Seen Benny Hinn and Kenneth Copeland make these claims of being 'little god men' and 'little messiahs'
I Stand by what I posted. It is the Truth and Much of the WF teaching is straight out of Gnosticism/New Ageism. That is The Truth.
SoftTouch,
Do you think that some Christians will ever choose the Word of God over the words of men?
The constant defense of the indefensible is unbelievable.
I'm beginning to lose hope.
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SoftTouch
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posted
Excuse me HisGrace but you're wrong. I have Heard and Seen Benny Hinn and Kenneth Copeland make these claims of being 'little god men' and 'little messiahs'
I Stand by what I posted. It is the Truth and Much of the WF teaching is straight out of Gnosticism/New Ageism. That is The Truth.
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Psalm 119:104Through thy precepts I get understanding: therefore I hate every false way. 105Thy word is a lamp unto my feet, and a light unto my path.
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hardcore
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posted
quote:
Originally posted by HisGrace:
quote:
Originally posted by WhiteEagle:
HisGrace I agree with you. I decided to read the links provided by Softtouch and it's sort of like reading about Evolution. In that those who believe in Evolution tout their own assumptions about the truth. The articles are full of false assumptions about what the WOF is really teaching and they skew the facts and fit into it their own false assumptions BECAUSE THE WRITTER OF THAT WEB PAGE DOESN'T UNDERSTAND THE TRUTH.
That is the problem with all of this cut and paste info. - it is all second-hand material, according to the bias of the author.
Would this also apply to the article you posted from and referred to in this thread "Difference Between Apologists and Heresy Hunters"?
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HisGrace
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posted
quote:
Originally posted by WhiteEagle:
HisGrace I agree with you. I decided to read the links provided by Softtouch and it's sort of like reading about Evolution. In that those who believe in Evolution tout their own assumptions about the truth. The articles are full of false assumptions about what the WOF is really teaching and they skew the facts and fit into it their own false assumptions BECAUSE THE WRITTER OF THAT WEB PAGE DOESN'T UNDERSTAND THE TRUTH.
That is the problem with all of this cut and paste info. - it is all second-hand material, according to the bias of the author.
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WhiteEagle
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posted
HisGrace I agree with you. I decided to read the links provided by Softtouch and it's sort of like reading about Evolution. In that those who believe in Evolution tout their own assumptions about the truth. The articles are full of false assumptions about what the WOF is really teaching and they skew the facts and fit into it their own false assumptions BECAUSE THE WRITTER OF THAT WEB PAGE DOESN'T UNDERSTAND THE TRUTH.
Posts: 1392 | From: Maine | Registered: Aug 2004
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HisGrace
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posted
quote:
Originally posted by SoftTouch:
Let's just look at this ONE Issue with the WOF Movement... "Ye are little gods" "I am a Little Messiah..."
SoftTouch, I wish you would be more careful when you bring up these articles. Just the manipulation of a few words can change the whole meaning. You have admitted in the past that you don't listen to these preachers and don't read their books. You have been caught up in total hearsay.
Look at the subtle deceit in the followng. Notice how they mention the Word-Faith movement. Then they sneakily bring in paganism and mention Gen.3:5, and other scriptures. On the surface it looks like these scriptures were quoted by a WF preacher, which is untrue.
quote:
False Teaching – Exalting Man
The exaltation of man is where the Word-Faith movement sharply deviates from the Bible and historic Christianity. The great lie of Satan has always been, ‘You will be like God’ (Genesis 3:5). In the beginning, Satan’s sin was pride. In Isaiah 14:14 the Bible says that he declared the he would be like the Most High God and then he uses the same false claim on any man who will head him. After his fall, this same echo of pride has been used to tempt man throughout the ages. Pagan religions appeal to people on the level of pride. Margo Adler, a well known witch, stated this well:
The reason people are so attracted to magical and pagan religions is because they want to be god. The fundamental thing of pagan religions is that ultimately they say that you are within yourself the god or goddess.
Do you think it is true that the desire to be like God or to be a god is pagan?
Can this pagan doctrine and the Bible be in agreement?
Isaiah 43:10 tells us: "You are My witnesses," says the LORD, "And My servant whom I have chosen, That you may know and believe Me, And understand that I am He. Before Me there was no God formed, Nor shall there be after Me."Can the pagan religions and the Bible both be true?
Is there any other god other than the LORD?
Will there ever be another god other than the God who has revealed Himself in scripture?
The Bible is a very exclusionary book. God declared His word in such a way that it is impossible to accept pagan religions without rejecting scripture. Either this verse in Isaiah is a lie, or the pagans are following a lie. Both cannot be true.
All of the above is about paganism. Now see how they try to craftily interject the WF movement into the above mix.
quote:
The claim that man is god is probably the most consistent error that Word-Faith doctrine teaches. Across the board, almost all prominent Faith teachers echo the same message. Some, like Benny Hinn, began by warning people not to believe this doctrine. However, now Hinn teaches it with great fervor. Early on, Hinn once taught the following: ----
The following is a quote from a New Age Book, and again they deceitfully adding WF onto the end of the topic, once again looking as if it belongs to the WF movement.
quote:
Excerpts from the New Age book - We The People Are The Messiah
"DID I DIE FOR YOUR SINS? Of course I did not die for your sins . . . that would place you below me."
"The word "Christ' refers to your Divinity. This is the sacred substance of which you are made."
"Resurrect yourselves. You are Christ. CONSCIOUSLY BE CHRIST NOW!"
The clear intent is that you are not below Christ, you are Christ.
According to New Age doctrine, is man equal to Jesus Christ?
The above is all about NewAge. Why not tack on something about WF, making it look that they agree them, by saying -
quote:
Now look at Word-Faith teaching: ---According to Word-Faith doctrine, is man equal to Jesus Christ?
This is a subtle distortion of the truth. The WF movement never says that we are little gods or are God or Jesus. A downright lie by the press.
As the Bible says we are supposed to be in more and more like Jesus, but will never be Jesus. To say that they believe they are God or Jesus is distorted and a ridiculous assumption.
The following is from the Bible. I didn't make it up.
John 14: Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that believeth on me, the works that I do shall he do also; and greater works than these shall he do; because I go unto my Father. And whatsoever ye shall ask in my name, that will I do, that the Father may be glorified in the Son. If ye shall ask any thing in my name, I will do it. If ye love me, keep my commandments.
Vrs. 26 But the Comforter, which is the Holy Ghost, whom the Father will send in my name, he shall teach you all things, and bring all things to your remembrance, whatsoever I have said unto you.
Romans 8:29,30 For whom he did foreknow, he also did predestinate to be conformed to the image of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brethren.
Moreover whom he did predestinate, them he also called: and whom he called, them he also justified: and whom he justified, them he also glorified.
Be careful what you print Soft Touch.. I question the motives of this article . There are just too many holes in it,with the obvious spirit of heresy hunting and not from sincere apologists.
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SoftTouch
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posted
Let's just look at this ONE Issue with the WOF Movement... "Ye are little gods" "I am a Little Messiah..." Now, lets look at this
http://www.exchangedlife.com/sschool/topical/wf/exalting_man.htm
False Teaching – Exalting Man
The exaltation of man is where the Word-Faith movement sharply deviates from the Bible and historic Christianity. The great lie of Satan has always been, ‘You will be like God’ (Genesis 3:5). In the beginning, Satan’s sin was pride. In Isaiah 14:14 the Bible says that he declared the he would be like the Most High God and then he uses the same false claim on any man who will head him. After his fall, this same echo of pride has been used to tempt man throughout the ages. Pagan religions appeal to people on the level of pride. Margo Adler, a well known witch, stated this well:
The reason people are so attracted to magical and pagan religions is because they want to be god. The fundamental thing of pagan religions is that ultimately they say that you are within yourself the god or goddess.
Do you think it is true that the desire to be like God or to be a god is pagan?
Can this pagan doctrine and the Bible be in agreement?
Isaiah 43:10 tells us:
quote:
"You are My witnesses," says the LORD, "And My servant whom I have chosen, That you may know and believe Me, And understand that I am He. Before Me there was no God formed, Nor shall there be after Me. "
Can the pagan religions and the Bible both be true?
Is there any other god other than the LORD?
Will there ever be another god other than the God who has revealed Himself in scripture?
The Bible is a very exclusionary book. God declared His word in such a way that it is impossible to accept pagan religions without rejecting scripture. Either this verse in Isaiah is a lie, or the pagans are following a lie. Both cannot be true. The claim that man is god is probably the most consistent error that Word-Faith doctrine teaches. Across the board, almost all prominent Faith teachers echo the same message. Some, like Benny Hinn, began by warning people not to believe this doctrine. However, now Hinn teaches it with great fervor. Early on, Hinn once taught the following:
One of the most dangerous things in the body of Christ today is this teaching going around that teaches men that they are God. When you say that you are God, you are putting your place right where Lucifer was standing. When someone tells you that you are God, that's just another serpent coming to say, 'taste it'. When you hear the teaching that you are God, remember what I am telling you, it's the serpent coming into your garden saying, 'has God said...? If you eat this, you'll be just like Him.' The devil hasn't changed his game.
Obviously, early in his ministry Hinn was influenced in this area by orthodox Christianity. Historic and Biblical Christianity soon gave way to sensationalism and pagan influenced doctrines. Hinn went from warning against this doctrine to defending it. Hinn stated:
He laid aside his divine form so that I could one day be clothed on high with the divine form. People have a problem with Ken Copeland and Kenneth Hagan's teaching, but it is absolute and divine truth. Hagan and Copeland say, 'You are God'.
If the doctrine, ‘you are God’ is divine truth, does Hinn, Copeland and Hagan side with the Bible as divine truth or paganism as divine truth?
It cannot be overlooked that Hinn plainly stated that this teaching is absolute divine truth. Scripture does not teach that we are or will be divine. However, this does not prevent Hinn from now teaching the very thing He once declared to be of the devil:
God came from heaven and became a man. He made men into little gods. Went back to heaven as a man. He faces the Father as a man. You say, 'Am I little god?'. You're a son of God aren't you? You're a child of God aren't you? What else are you? You say, 'I AM'. You are identifying yourself with Him. Are you a part of Him? Are you His offspring? You can't be human."
Do you agree that we have been made a god but Jesus remains a man agree with the Bible?
Read Philippians 2:5-11. Who is Lord over all, man or Jesus?
The Bible does not teach that Jesus was merely a man. Word-Faith doctrine teaches that Jesus is only a man and man is a god. As we will examine a little later, this completely contradicts scripture. Let’s break down the Word-Faith’s doctrine of man’s divinity so we can examine it against the clear teaching of scripture.
God's purpose for man
What is God’s purpose for man? As we will see, the Word-Faith movement answers this question completely different that Biblical Christianity. In Word-Faith doctrine, mankind was created divine and on equal terms with God. We only need to recognize our god-potential and believe that we are gods. It's amazing how closely the Word-Faith teaching aligns to New-Age and pagan beliefs. Here are some examples:
Excerpts from the New Age book - We The People Are The Messiah
"DID I DIE FOR YOUR SINS? Of course I did not die for your sins . . . that would place you below me."
"The word "Christ' refers to your Divinity. This is the sacred substance of which you are made."
"Resurrect yourselves. You are Christ. CONSCIOUSLY BE CHRIST NOW!"
The clear intent is that you are not below Christ, you are Christ.
According to New Age doctrine, is man equal to Jesus Christ?
Now look at Word-Faith teaching:
"God's reason for creating Adam was His desire to reproduce Himself. I mean a reproduction of Himself. In the garden of Eden, He did that. He was not a little like God. He was not almost like God. He was not subordinate to God. Adam was as much like God as you can get. Just like Jesus was God manifested in the flesh, Adam was God manifested in the flesh."
- Kenneth Copeland
According to Word-Faith doctrine, is man equal to Jesus Christ?
Word-Faith doctrine teaches that man was created as God manifest in the flesh. Is there a difference between Adam and Jesus? According to Word-Faith teaching, the answer is no. Is there a difference between you and Jesus? According to Word-Faith teaching, the answer is also no. Make a note of the key points in the above quote, when we examine scripture, the differences will be obvious. The points presented as ‘truth’ are: the purpose of man is to be a reproduction of God Himself; Adam (or mankind) is a replication of God; man is not subordinate to God; Adam was God in the flesh; Adam was identical to God. This is echoed throughout the Word-Faith movement. Here is Herbert W. Armstrong:
As God repeatedly reveals, his purpose is to reproduce himself into what may well become billions of God persons. Why did the Creator God put man on the earth? For God's ultimate supreme purpose of reproducing himself, of recreating himself.
Note the key points presented here: God has revealed His purpose for man; man’s purpose is to be a God-person; we are a recreation of God. John Avanzini states:
"Eternal purpose of God has been throughout the ages...that God is duplicating Himself throughout the earth."
Morris Cerello declares God’s eternal purpose according to Word-Faith doctrine:
Did you know that from the beginning of time the whole purpose of God was to reproduce Himself? Who are you? Come on! Who are you? Come on, say it, sons of God! All that is at work within us is that manifestation of all that God is, all God has and when we stand up here, you're not looking at Morris Cerello, you are looking at God! You're looking at Jesus!
Does the Bible agree with these teachers when they claim God’s purpose for man is to reproduce God?
Does the Bible agree that there are billions of “God-persons” identical to Himself?
Do these teachers proclaim the doctrine handed down from the apostles, the Bible and the early church, or do they echo the New Age movement?
(Article continued at above link)
PLEASE READ THE WHOLE ARTICLE AT THE LINK ABOVE. This Article Lays It Out Biblically why this teaching is Hersey and what the Bible Says is the TRUTH "I" am Not going to 'debate this' here on this board. IF you Want the Truth, then PLEASE Read This Article.
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Psalm 119:104Through thy precepts I get understanding: therefore I hate every false way. 105Thy word is a lamp unto my feet, and a light unto my path.
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Debtfree
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posted
You need to read two books on the Word of Faith:
E.W. Kenyon And His Message of Faith The True Story, and Another Side of the Coin. You can find them by typing in the name of each book in any search engine.
The Word of Faith isn't perfect, but it isn't a cult either. WoF believers believe in the same statement of faith that the Assemblies of God endorses.
Instead of attacking the message research it from both side of the story.
Debtfree
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Make the Word of God: First Place Final Authority In Life.
www.b2bablessing.org
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SoftTouch
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Amen, HisGrace ![[thumbsup2]](graemlins/thumbsup2.gif)
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Psalm 119:104Through thy precepts I get understanding: therefore I hate every false way. 105Thy word is a lamp unto my feet, and a light unto my path.
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HisGrace
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quote:
Originally posted by SoftTouch:
Amen Walt and Linda.
Linda, I think you've hit an important nail on the head. Those who would label us 'hersey hunters' don't understand that we expose the hersey/error because of Love... Love for God and Love for the Lost and decieved.
As long as you keep in mind that you should always glorify His name and display the fruits of the spirit.
Psalm 86:12
I will praise thee, O Lord my God, with all my heart: and I will glorify thy name for evermore.
Gal.5:22-26 But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, gentleness, goodness, faith,
Meekness, temperance: against such there is no law. And they that are Christ's have crucified the flesh with the affections and lusts.
If we live in the Spirit, let us also walk in the Spirit. Let us not be desirous of vain glory, provoking one another, envying one another.
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SoftTouch
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Amen Walt and Linda.
Linda, I think you've hit an important nail on the head. Those who would label us 'hersey hunters' don't understand that we expose the hersey/error because of Love... Love for God and Love for the Lost and decieved.
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Psalm 119:104Through thy precepts I get understanding: therefore I hate every false way. 105Thy word is a lamp unto my feet, and a light unto my path.
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helpforhomeschoolers
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Me too Walt. I think of that sometimes when I am labeled a legalistic person or a heresy hunter. I know that if this is error on my part, then God surely knows that it is error made out of love for his children and not out of guille or anything that amounts to ill will against any. I would rather fall into the hands of the All MIGHTY God even if it is the hand of HIS judgment, than to fall into the hands of Satan's deceptions.
Posts: 4684 | From: Southern Black Hills of South Dakota | Registered: Jun 2002
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wparr
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I'd rather be labled a "heresy hunter" that to be a ka sara sara (accepting whatever doctrine blows around) carnal "christian" justifying pleasing the flesh.
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WildB
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ANOINTED OIL, MIRACLE OVERFLOW GENERATION ANOINTING
With Oral, Evelyn and Richard Roberts
This amazing offer was made to potential Faith Covenant Partners in Outpouring, Special Edition 2001 and has been repeated since then.
"God put it in my heart to call Oral Roberts and his son Richard to ask them if they would join Sarah and me to form a 'next-generation' prayer circle of faith, believing God for Him to place a 'miracle-overflow Next Generation anointing' on some oil."
"During a particularly powerful prayer time, we fervently laid our hands on some SPECIAL anointing oil...and together, we released our faith for God to impart a MIRACLE-OVERFLOW Next Generation Anointing upon that oil. Now we want to pass it along to YOU, your children, and your grandchildren...as we invite you to become Faith Covenant Partners with us and this ministry of 'Covering the Earth with the Word.'"
"We've taken this oil and blended and prepared it for you to carry with you in a beautiful, gold- colored metal locket..allowing you to bring a MIRACLE-OVERFLOW Next Generation Anointing to everyone you touch...whenever and wherever the need arises." "When you become PARTNERS with a ministry, you ACTIVATE A POWERFUL SPIRITUAL PRINCIPLE in your life: the same power of God that is available to that ministry...becomes available to YOU!...You can literally walk in the same anointing they walk in!"
Hold on just a minute! What was that again?
A "MIRACLE-OVERFLOW Next Generation Anointing" upon some oil? Where is that found in the Bible? In what manner can Oral Roberts, Richard Roberts, Marilyn Hickey and Sarah Bowling claim to have some extra special, extraordinary ability to place an "anointing" on some oil that will cause an effect on three generations (the person, their children and their grandchildren)? Where is that found in the Bible?
Now read closely, because it was easy to miss. The oil is not entirely as advertised. Oral, Evelyn, Richard, Marilyn and Sarah anointed SOME oil, but the oil that is being offered to the Faith Covenant Partners is not the pure oil from the anointing, but has been "BLENDED and prepared".
In other words, the small amount of oil that was anointed by them (not very much, perhaps a gallon, maybe more, has been mixed with a much larger amount of NON-ANOINTED oil in order to provide enough for the anticipated numbers that would enlist as Faith Covenant partners and receive their Miracle Oil kit. How much Miracle Oil is in the kit? Possibly an ounce or ounce and a half. Now, assuming that they carried two gallons of Special anointing oil into the meeting where they anointed it with their special blessing, how many ounces were there in the container? Answer: 256 ounces. Enough pure oil for 256 one ounce bottles or 170 one and one-half ounce bottles for new Faith Covenant Partners. But, remember, the oil was BLENDED. In other words, as the oil was BLENDED, it was also diluted. So, when it reached those Faith Covenant partners, it was not the FULL-STRENGTH product that was originally produced. ON DOCTRINE does not know by how much the oil was blended or diluted. It is not possible to know. It is also not possible to know how much oil was initially anointed by the group since it is not stated. However, it does not seem realistic that they went to a parking lot to bless 50 gallon drums of oil. (LOL as wildb wipes coffe off screen....)
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That is all.....
Posts: 8775 | From: USA, MICHIGAN | Registered: Mar 2004
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helpforhomeschoolers
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BA says: quote:
Then there are the Heresy Hunters, who say things about bornagain "Christians who are far away" and "who cannot defend themselves because they don't even know they are being discussed" and "who are too big a group to be able to reach personally anymore--for who has time to answser everything personally anymore when one is in charge of say, a TBN with a budget of what, $500 million?
Oh, BA... I think that they have defended themselves:
"I think God's given up on a lot of that old rotten Sanhedrin religious crowd, twice dead, plucked up by the roots. I think they're damned and on their way to hell and I don't think there's any redemption for them...the heresy hunters that want to find a little mote of illegal doctrine in some Christian's eye and pluck that little mote out of their eye when they've got the whole forest in their own lives and in their own eyes. I say to hell with you! Oh hallelujah. Get out of God's way, quit blocking God's bridges or God's gonna shoot you if I don't! I refuse to argue any longer with any of you out there. Don't even call me. If you want to argue doctrine, if you want to straighten out somebody over here, if you want to criticize Ken Copeland for his preaching on faith, or Dad Hagin. Get out of my life! I don't even want to talk to you or hear you. I don't want to see your ugly face! Get out of my face in Jesus' name." (Paul Crouch, "Praise-a-thon" broadcast on TBN, recorded 4/2/91)
This quote above was taken from a website, and not one that I approve of, but I will personally testify that I have heard several of the above statements personally at other times from Crouch and similar ones from Hinn, Copeland, and Duplantis.
Jim: You little song made me laugh, and it made me feel old too. (though I do have to tell you that in the south where I came from the Baptists do dance!!!)(They do here in SD too!) When I was young, I lived with an aunt for a time who went to an Assemblies of God Church; this was in the south and back in the 60's; You can imagine the kinds of things people said because they danced and raised their hands and praised the Lord out loud. I imagine now that that church probably rocked the block with noise that came from it and was the talk of the town because of it!
I was saved in a Salvation Army church that was not much different.
Your little song made me to think, how wonderful it would be if today the only thing in our churches that one could question was that we danced and whooped and hollered and made a joyful noise unto the LORD!
Sadly, that is not the case and it is not dancing or even rolling on the floor that the Lord finds fault in the church:
quote:
Nevertheless I have somewhat against thee, because thou hast left thy first love.
Ephesus a doctrinally sound church, who is the beginning were passionate about Jesus and renowned for their evangelism ceased to do what they first did and are told to repent.
quote:
But I have a few things against thee, because thou hast there them that hold the doctrine of Balaam, who taught Balac to cast a stumblingblock before the children of Israel, to eat things sacrificed unto idols, and to commit fornication. So hast thou also them that hold the doctrine of the Nicolaitans, which thing I hate.
Pergamous - doctrinal issues
quote:
Notwithstanding I have a few things against thee, because thou sufferest that woman Jezebel, which calleth herself a prophetess, to teach and to seduce my servants to commit fornication, and to eat things sacrificed unto idols.
Thyatira - Doctrinal issues
quote:
These things saith he that hath the seven Spirits of God, and the seven stars; I know thy works, that thou hast a name that thou livest, and art dead.
Sardis - Nominal Christians - Christians in NAME only.
quote:
I know thy works, that thou art neither cold nor hot: I would thou wert cold or hot. So then because thou art lukewarm, and neither cold nor hot, I will spue thee out of my mouth.
Laodicea - a church wrapped up in herself, oblivious to the things that break God's heart - she is not cold, but neither is she passiuonately HOT - She thinks she has everything and she has nothing....
quote:
Because thou sayest, I am rich, and increased with goods, and have need of nothing; and knowest not that thou art wretched, and miserable, and poor, and blind, and naked:
It is also interesting to me what is not criticised here, but is praised:
quote:
how thou canst not bear them which are evil: and thou hast tried them which say they are apostles, and are not, and hast found them liars:
quote:
6 But this thou hast, that thou hatest the deeds of the Nicolaitans, which I also hate.
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BORN AGAIN
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Generally speaking, the Word of Faith movement had its place (and it's still going in its place) of causing Christians worldwide to rethink their quiet, unresponsive, just-sit-there Christianity and the Word of Faith movement stirred Christians up into excited Christians.
The Word of Faith movement had its place and still has a place, in God's time and purposes.
I sometimes think that humans are so polluted that God actually gets little out of co-laboring with polluted humans, but God always gets something of His plan accomplished with the help of polluted humans, even with Christians who have access to the Counsel of the Holy Spirit.
Yet God knows that each Christian's ability to listen to the Counsellor varies with each polluted human Christian.
What I'm saying is that the LORD God of Israel did get something out of the Word of Faith movement, namely the WOF got people excited about God again.
People began to "watch what their own tongues were saying", and that is a good thing, Amen?
Were they speaking in faith or were they speaking words which were not of faith? And so on.
While I was not too fond of the way the author presented the subject of Apologetics and Heresy Hunters, I agree with the idea of Apologetics but not with the idea of Heresy Hunters.
We are all called to defend the faith of the Bible and seek out truth and error as it occurs in the particular place that I am at, like for instance on this CBBS, I am reading what people are writing and answering them. That is Apologetics.
Then there are the Heresy Hunters, who say things about bornagain "Christians who are far away" and "who cannot defend themselves because they don't even know they are being discussed" and "who are too big a group to be able to reach personally anymore--for who has time to answser everything personally anymore when one is in charge of say, a TBN with a budget of what, $500 million?
That is Heresy Hunting, talking about bornagain Christians who are far away and do not know they are being discussed. That is Heresy Hunting.
On the other hand, heresy hunting could be good if all it is doing is warning against this or that part of a bornagain Christian's teaching.
Every bornagain Christian only understands in part and sees in part, so it is not surprising, given also our polluted history under Lucifer-Satan, that bornagain Christians teach some things which are a bit far-fetched and could use a little "realignment".
Fine, name me one Christian other than yourself who is the perfect preacher, who knows the Bible word for word from memory and has found all the lines upon lines in the Bible and makes no mistakes anymore in interpretation.
Or was the Bible now as easy to understand and remember as Little Red Riding Hood and the Big Bad Wolf? There are so many words in the Bible, and each time I read them anew, the words and their context almost spring into more life than they already had the first time I read them.
Come now, the Word of Faith movement did a great job for its time, and it is still bringing more people into the kingdom of the Living God of Israel.
Talk to us on this CBBS, condemn or praise us, present your own Topics to us which you have yourselves understood from the Bible, that we may see what you know yourselves about the Bible.
I love Apologetics though, because that means "contending for the faith in the here and now where I am planted." Here, with bornagain Christians who can defend themselves, and not far away with bornagain Christians who cannot defend themselves.
God bless, BORN AGAIN in the USA by the ![[Cross]](graemlins/cross.gif)
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HisGrace
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Just a cautionary note
Disclaimer: Worldview Weekend, Christian Worldview Network and its columnists do not necessarily endorse or agree with every opinion expressed in every article posted on this site. We do however, encourage a healthy and friendly debate on the issues of our day. Whether you agree or disagree, we encourage you to post your feedback by using the feedback button.
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Caretaker
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HisGrace:
There are 'Exposing' threads popping up all over the place. You may try to argue with man, but just make certain you are not grieving the Holy Spirit folks.
Ephesians 4:30 And grieve not the holy Spirit of God, whereby ye are sealed unto the day of redemption.
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I notice that His Grace has also started a thread in this section, so you yourself are "popping-up" threads in the exposed section.
Do you not see that God is grieved at those who wrest scriptures to support their pet interpretation for which it was never intended?
It is sad the multitudes who are being deceived by the putrid pablum of prosperity/positive confession proponents, and those who staunchly defend the falsely "annointed" with blinders on and their fingers stuck squarely in the ears of their heart.
2 Tim. 3:
6: For of this sort are they which creep into houses, and lead captive silly women laden with sins, led away with divers lusts,
7: Ever learning, and never able to come to the knowledge of the truth.
8: Now as Jannes and Jambres withstood Moses, so do these also resist the truth: men of corrupt minds, reprobate concerning the faith.
9: But they shall proceed no further: for their folly shall be manifest unto all men, as theirs also was.
10: But thou hast fully known my doctrine, manner of life, purpose, faith, longsuffering, charity, patience,
11: Persecutions, afflictions, which came unto me at Antioch, at Iconium, at Lystra; what persecutions I endured: but out of them all the Lord delivered me.
12: Yea, and all that will live godly in Christ Jesus shall suffer persecution.
13: But evil men and seducers shall wax worse and worse, deceiving, and being deceived.
14: But continue thou in the things which thou hast learned and hast been assured of, knowing of whom thou hast learned them;
15: And that from a child thou hast known the holy scriptures, which are able to make thee wise unto salvation through faith which is in Christ Jesus.
16: All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:
17: That the man of God may be perfect, throughly furnished unto all good works.
http://www.worldviewweekend.com/secure/cwnetwork/article.php?&ArticleID=505+
Joel Osteen’s New Age Life Now?
Commentary Opinion By Brannon Howse
In part two of our examination of Joel Osteen’s teachings and beliefs
we expose what I believe are unbiblical, New Age doctrines.
“Whatever you conceive you can achieve.”
With this favorite karma-changing promise, New Agers believe you need only use the “unlimited” power and consciousness of your mind to bring about all your dreams, desires and wishes.
Cloaked in a “Christian” package, Joel Osteen’s Your Best Life Now, bears an uncomfortable and dangerous similarity to this most popular of New Age claims. Sample a few of the Osteen versions:
• “You will produce what you’re continually seeing in your mind. If you foster an image of defeat and failure, then you’re going to live that kind of life. But if you develop an image of victory, success, health, abundance, joy, peace, and happiness, nothing on earth will be able to hold those things from you.” (page 5)
• “You must conceive it in your heart and mind before you can receive it.” (page 6)
• “You must look through your ‘eyes of faith’ and start seeing yourself as happy, healthy and whole.” (page 15)
• “What you will receive is directly connected to how you believe.” (page 22)
• “We receive what we believe.” (page 72)
• “Learn how to conceive. Keep the image of what you want to become in front of you. You’re going to become what you believe.” (page 81)
Osteen now travels the country, packing out stadiums with his happy-talk. But I’d like to see Osteen pay a visit to China, preach his “your best life now” drivel, and see how Christians there respond. Let Osteen look into the eyes of Pastor Lei who has been repeatedly arrested and beaten for preaching the Word of God in his church—a church not licensed by the Chinese government. How would the American’s best life work out for Pastor Lei and his congregation? Perhaps their jail time for the Gospel would give them time to assess Rev. Osteen’s claims.
Have these and countless other persecuted Christians been beaten, jailed and murdered because they “received what they believed,” or did these terrible things happen to them because they did not “develop an image of victory, success, health, abundance, joy, peace, and happiness”?
Were eleven of Jesus’ disciples martyred because, “they received what they believed”? Were the disciples living under a “curse of poverty and defeat” as Osteen says of so many? Here’s a role-call of questions I’d like to ask Mr. Osteen. Why is it, Joel, that:
• Paul and Matthew were beheaded?
• Barnabas was burned to death?
• Mark was dragged to death?
• James, the less, was clubbed to death?
• Peter, Philip, and Andrew were crucified?
• Thomas was speared to death?
• Luke was hung by the neck till dead?
• Stephen was stoned?
How would these disciples take to the best-life message?
Yes, I know. Joel’s promises sound so much better to American ears than all those warnings of Jesus about being hated by most people for His sake. But it remains that in large measure, Joel’s offering can be described as nothing less than blasphemy. On page 36, he claims, “God has a big dream for your life.” On page 56: “God sees you as a champion. He believes in you even more than you believe in yourself!” And on page 110: “God has confidence in you.”
Osteen does not provide a single Bible verse to back up these statements…because there are none. Nowhere in the Bible do we read that God believes or has confidence in us. He loves us, but does not believe in us. On the contrary, He knows all too well how unbelievably fickle and untrustworthy we humans actually are. It’s not like Joel describes on page 57: “Believe it or not, that is how God sees you, too. He regards you as a strong, courageous, successful, overcoming person.”
Furthermore, God does not define our success in materialistic terms as Joel does. God is interested in our obedience above all. On page 63, Joel writes:
As long as you are pressing forward, you can hold your head up high, knowing that you are a “work in progress,” and God is in the process of changing you. He’s looking at your last two good moves.
Joel, where in the Bible do you read that God is not looking at our last two bad moves but our last two good moves? Isaiah 64:6 says that even our righteous deeds are like filthy rags or wickedness to God because He is so holy. Even if God did look at our last two good moves, He would still see filthy rags.
Or how about this Osteen gospel gem from page 95:
“Be the best you can be, then you can feel good about yourself.”
Where in the Bible do we find this teaching? What if your best is getting drunk just once a week instead of twice a week? Should you still feel good about yourself?
But wait. I’ve saved Joel’s most outrageous statement for last (drum roll please). On page 144, Joel elevates us to the heavenlies by pointing out that “You may even need to forgive God.”
Whoa! And exactly what would we be forgiving God for? As I recall, forgiveness is for sins—or at least mistakes. But which of those has God made? Not a one according to any Bible I’ve ever read.
Oswald Chambers offers a perspective on the kind of thing the Osteens of the world do to Christians: “Satan’s great aim is to deflect us from the center. He will allow us to be devoted to the death to any cause, any enterprise, to anything but the Lord Jesus.”[1] Hebrews 13:9 instructs us to not be carried away by all sorts of strange teachings (deflected from the center) but sadly, that is exactly what is happening for many at the hand of Joel Osteen.
Instead of pursuing our best life now, we should pursue the things of the Lord so we can have our best life later. I fear that for many who follow Joel’s false teaching, this life is the best they will get. The false gospel proclaimed by Joel Osteen and accepted as truth by millions may allow many to achieve what they can conceive of the things in this world, but true to Jesus’ promise, they may lose their souls in the pursuit.
[1] George Grant, The Family Under Siege, (Bethany House Publishers, Mlps, MN. 1994) p. 44.
Distributed by www.ChristianWorldviewNetwork.com
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A Servant of Christ,
Drew
1 Tim. 3:
16: And without controversy great is the mystery of godliness: God was manifest in the flesh..
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HisGrace
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There are 'Exposing' threads popping up all over the place. You may try to argue with man, but just make certain you are not grieving the Holy Spirit folks.
Ephesians 4:30 And grieve not the Holy Spirit of God, whereby ye are sealed unto the day of redemption.
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SoftTouch
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What’s wrong with the Word Faith Teachers and their Doctrines? The following links will examine some of the popular Word Faith teachers, their stated beliefs, and hold them up to the light of God’s Holy Scripture… see for yourself:
Kenneth Copeland: http://www.ondoctrine.com/10copela.htm
Benny Hinn: http://www.ondoctrine.com/10hinn.htm
Paul Crouch: http://www.ondoctrine.com/10tbn.htm
Jesse Duplantis: http://www.ondoctrine.com/10duplan.htm
Marilyn Hickey: http://www.ondoctrine.com/10hickey.htm
Teachings and Movement:
The "Giving and Receiving" Doctrine (Seed Faith): http://www.ondoctrine.com/10giving.htm
The Toronto Blessing: http://www.ondoctrine.com/10toront.htm
Vineyard Fellowship (John Wimber): http://www.ondoctrine.com/10wimber.htm
Trinity Broadcasting Network: http://www.ondoctrine.com/10tbn.htm
A Little Information About “On Doctrine” http://www.ondoctrine.com/00about.htm
ONDOCTRINE.COM is the privately owned website of Gary A. Hand and is not affiliated with, managed by or controlled by any organization or group.
ONDOCTRINE.COM is not operated by or funded by any organization, corporation or entity of any type other than the individual owner.
ONDOCTRINE.COM does not solicit or accept funding of any type, either from grants or donations.
ONDOCTRINE.COM adheres to the Statement of Belief which is expressed on the BELIEF PAGE ( http://www.ondoctrine.com/00belief.htm ) which is a statement of personal conviction on the part of the owner.
So, who is Gary A. Hand?
Nobody in particular and of no special importance.
So, why do you think you know so much?
I have limited abilities, limited intellect and do not pretend to be an expert or final authority regarding the articles that I write, but I do take responsibility for what is stated. In the event that I misstate the facts or assume that which is untrue, I am willing to be corrected by a genuine presentation of the facts and will admit to the errors that I make.
So, what are your credentials and qualifications?
My qualifications to judge the doctrinal stance of any belief system are the same as those for any other Christian - the application of the Scripture as the word of God. I do not presume any higher authority. As for my credentials, I graduated from high school, obtained my A.A degree from Los Angeles Valley Junior College and my B.A. in history and political science from San Fernando Valley State College (since known as California State University at Northridge). I have no seminary degree. I spent 34 years with a national department store retailer, 26 years in management positions. I am a layman and am not a deacon or elder.
So, since you are not a church leader or a pastor, why do you think you have the credentials to criticize or judge those who are?
In relation to the questions that I may have in regards to the credentials and beliefs of others as spiritual leaders, I can only respond that the credentials of leaders are revealed in the doctrines that they teach and the character of a life as it relates to the standards of leadership stated in 1 Timothy 3:1-13. Those standards are inviolate in relation to leadership, to which there can be no recourse in the event of failure, except to step away from that position of leadership. A leader cannot be held to a standard of perfection in every aspect of life, just as any Christian cannot be perfect in this life, but those standards are absolute if a person is to retain a leadership position. The character and qualification of a leader are seen in the doctrines that are taught, by submission to the authority of the Scripture in relation to stated qualifications, and in the response to the mandate of the Scripture when failure to meet those qualifications is realized. Scripture is the judge of all.
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Psalm 119:104Through thy precepts I get understanding: therefore I hate every false way. 105Thy word is a lamp unto my feet, and a light unto my path.
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