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Author
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Topic: Where in the world did Rick Warren get so far off track?
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Itty-Bitty Girl
Advanced Member
Member # 4579
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posted
quote:
Originally posted by yahsway:
I agree that "abortion" is a choice but is it the choice God would have one make?
Have you ever heard of fetus in fetu?
Fetus in fetu, means “a fetus within a fetus”. Or “Christian” traditionalists may call it “an unborn child within an unborn child”.
“Fetus in fetu is a rare abnormality secondary to the abnormal embryogenesis in a diamniotic, monochorionic pregnancy. It is an unusual condition in which a vertebrate fetus is enclosed within the abdomen of a normally developing fetus.”
Source cited: http://radiology.rsnajnls.org/cgi/content/full/214/3/735
So in simple terms: Two eggs are fertilized(“God’s creation”, “not to be tampered with”, according to Good NewsForAll), which turns into two fetal twins, but under some bizarre circumstances, one fetus ends up enclosed in its fetal twin’s abdomen and literally feeds off of the normal developing fetus’ resources and grows and will eventually kill the normally developing fetus if left inside of it. <This is not some sci-fi flick either: this is real life. >
“A baby born with a fetus inside it ‘occurs in only one in every 500,000 live births,’ said Maria Angelica Belmar, head of the hospital's neonatal wing.”
Source cited: http://articles.news.aol.com/news/_a/chilean-boy-born-with-fetus-in-his/20061124150509990008
So, what choice would God have one make?
Would God have one let the parasitic fetus live and continue to grow and kill its fetal twin, which will in turn kill the parasitic twin also(no more resources for it to feed off of), so that both fetuses die? Or would God have one kill the parasitic fetus, to preserve the life of its normally developing fetal host?
You see, that is what fetuses do: feed off resources of a person, inside of a person’s body. In a pregnancy, a woman’s resources are being fed off of. I have come to the conclusion that a fetus is not a human being, it is a mass, feeding off the resources of its host, providing no benefit. In the case of “fetus in fetu”, a fetus is feeding off the resources of the other fetus, and it is the other fetus that cannot support the resources and needs of its parasitic twin.
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In some cases of a pregnancy, the fetus is endangering the life of the woman that it is inside of, because the woman becomes unable to support the fetus’ needs, like in the case of “fetus in fetu”, and both woman and fetus may die if the fetus remains inside of the woman.
Abortions kill fetuses, I have come to the conclusion that fetuses are not human beings. I believe they become human beings when they are able to survive outside of the body of their hosts.
“A woman with sickle cell anemia who sought an abortion had suffered three severe sickle cell crises during a previous pregnancy. Each time she had to be hospitalized and on two occasions she received blood transfusions. The pain had been unbearable. When she became pregnant again, she sought an abortion to avoid the significant health risks she faced if she continued the pregnancy.
Source cited: http://www.aclu.org/reproductiverights/lowincome/16449lgl20000210.html
So, what choice would God have one make?
Would God have one let the parasitic fetus live and continue to grow and kill its mother, which will in turn kill the parasitic fetus also(no more resources for it to feed off of), so that both fetus and mother die? Or would God have one kill the parasitic fetus(abortion), to preserve the life of its mother and host?
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Have you ever heard of Chimerism?
“Chimera” is the Greek word for a mythical creature that was part lion, part goat and part serpent.
Chimeras are real. A Chimera woman said: ”Myth no longer it is now realistic and I'm living proof.” Source cited: http://www.geocities.com/mylifewithchimera/Chimera.html
In 1998, doctors at the University of Edinburgh highlighted a case in which two embryos, one male and one female, fused in development to form a single child.
Source cited: http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/health/3264467.stm
So in simple terms: Two eggs are fertilized(“God’s creation”, “not to be tampered with”, according to Good NewsForAll), which turns into two non-identical embryo twins, but under some bizarre circumstances, both embryos end up fused together in the womb, and the mother ends up giving birth to one child. <This is not some sci-fi flick either: this is real life. > Around 30 cases of chimerism have been reported.
A mother had been pregnant with non-identical twins who had fused together in the womb to make one person.
So if the fertilized egg(“God’s creation”, “not to be tampered with”, according to Good NewsForAll) are truly human beings, then what about the Chimeras? A Chimera’s origin in the womb started off as two fertilized eggs. Do Chimeras have two souls?
quote:
Originally posted by yahsway:
God told Rebecca that there were 2 Nations and 2 peoples in her womb. They were not born yet, but God had a plan. These 2 "fetuses" as far as God was concerned were 2 "citizens" of 2 different Nations.
According to you and your belief, but I can’t seem to find in the bible where God says that they were “2 ‘citizens’ of 2 different Nations”.
quote:
Originally posted by yahsway:
God told Jeremiah "Before I formed you in the womb I knew you; Before you were born I sanctified you; I ordained you a prophet to the nations."
And what does that have to do with a woman’s right to choose to have an abortion?
quote:
Originally posted by yahsway:
Abortion maybe a womans right to choose, but that does not make it a right choice where Gods laws and holiness and rightousness are concerned. A Christian should be more concerned with how God views a "fetus" and abortion than how man views it.
I am a Christian, and I don’t even know how God views abortion. I have not even seen in the bible how God views abortion. I thought I knew, but I didn’t. It was more of a false knowledge, because I cannot find anywhere in the bible where it says that a woman should be denied her right to choose to have an abortion. It was my idea that God was against abortion, but that idea was more of how myself, man, views abortion, and how man put its own opinion in the bible, and how man views Christians who do not agree with the their own opinions that they themselves have inserted into the bible.
Posts: 1051 | Registered: Apr 2005
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becauseHElives
Advanced Member
Member # 87
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posted
quote:
Good NewsforAll,
Either it is a sin or it isn't. We can't sit on the fence.
Abortion is a sin, a sin of the most grievous nature, but as with any sin there are degrees of how horrible the sin is.
If I lust after a woman, Yahweh says it is a sin just as serious in His eyes as if I had already committed the act of adultery, but in my wife’s eyes the thought is not nearly as bad as if I had committed the act of adultery with a stranger, even yet worse if I committed the act with someone we were acquainted with.
I pray Yahweh open your eyes to the precept of His Word that speaks to us about judging others when we are guilty of the same sin, only in a lesser degree.
Jhn 8:7 -11
So when they continued asking him, he lifted up himself, and said unto them, He that is without sin among you, let him first cast a stone at her…
….She said, No man, Lord. And Jesus said unto her, Neither do I condemn thee: go, and sin no more.
The principle is if I am going to judge another person I must be free of that sin to any degree in my own life.
And why beholdest thou the mote that is in thy brother's eye, but considerest not the beam that is in thine own eye? Or how wilt thou say to thy brother, Let me pull out the mote out of thine eye; and, behold, a beam is in thine own eye? Thou hypocrite, first cast out the beam out of thine own eye; and then shalt thou see clearly to cast out the mote out of thy brother's eye (Matthew 7:3-5).
Abortion is abortion to Yahweh, there are no degrees of how much worse it is to have an abortion in the first trimester, the last trimester a baby is in the womb or if you abort the baby with birth control, one is truly worse than the other in human understanding but not Yahweh’s.
"Birth Control" Pills cause early Abortions
By J.T. Finn (updated April 23, 2005)
Physicians across America -- and around the world -- are now confirming that the Pill, IUDs, Depo-Provera and Norplant cause early abortions.
First, a look at the Pill. Research shows that in many cases the Pill causes early abortions -- abortions the mother may not even know she's having. You may find this shocking, but the facts are clear after reading Randy Alcorn's book, titled;
"Does the Birth Control Pill Cause Abortions?"
Here's what 11 physicians and medical professionals are saying about the book Randy Alcorn published in 1998:
1. "From medical textbooks and pharmacy references, to statements from the Pill-manufacturers themselves, this book proves, beyond any doubt, the abortion-causing action of birth control pills. This book should be read by everyone interested in knowing the truth."
~ Paul L. Hayes, M.D., Board Certified Fellow of the American College of Obstetricians/Gynecologists
2. "Does the birth control pill cause abortions? Using research results from medical literature, Randy Alcorn has convincingly shown that the answer is `yes.' He has, with care and compassion, given us the truth. The question for us as Christians is how we will respond now that we know."
~ Linda Martin, M.D., Pediatrician
3. "By carefully detailing the available medical information concerning the abortifacient effects of oral contraceptives, Randy Alcorn has developed a logical and thoughtful challenge to every prolife person. The conclusions of this study are scientifically accurate. Birth control pills usually prevent pregnancy, but sometimes they cause an abortion. Questions? Objections? Randy has addressed them in a gentle but firm way. This is the manner in which the often fiery debate over prolife subjects should be carried out- unemotionally, intelligently and quietly. The evidence is before us . . . `How should we then live?'"
~ Patrick D. Walker, M.D., Professor of Pathology, University of Arkansas for Medical Sciences
4. "In this challenging book Randy Alcorn has the honesty to face a tough and uncomfortable question. This compelling evidence will make you rethink the question of birth control pills."
~ John Brose, M.D., Surgeon
5. "In this impeccably researched book, Randy Alcorn takes an unblinking look at what medical experts know about how birth control pills work. I painfully agree that birth control pills do in fact cause abortions. Our individual and collective Christian response to this heretofore varnished-over information will have profound consequences for time and eternity. This is a disturbing must-read for all who profess to be prolife."
~ Beverly A. McMillan, M.D., Ob/Gyn
6. "Randy Alcorn has done exceptional work. The facts in this book parallel much of my own research. I am delighted he would undertake such a work when others seek to avoid the subject. This book is a must for Christians, particularly those in medicine and Christian ministries."
~ Karen D. Garnett, R.N.
7. "No prolife physician can rightly prescribe BCPs [birth control pills] after reviewing this data. I have started circulating this information."
~ Randall Martin, M.D., Chairman, Department of Anesthesiology, Columbia Willamette Valley Medical Center
8. "Scientific papers suggest that escape ovulation occurs 4-15% of all cycles in patients taking birth control pills. Thus, as this booklet points out, early chemical abortions are a real and significant concern."
~ Paddy Jim Baggot, M.D., Ob/Gyn, Fellow of the American College of Medical Genetics
9. "Randy Alcorn has thoroughly studied and written on an area where little published scientific information exists. His responses to this issue, and his outstanding appendices, are must reading."
~ William M. Petty, M.D., Surgeon, Gynecologic Oncology
10. "Randy Alcorn has once again demonstrated his tenacity and integrity in pursuing the truth. He has exposed the abortifacient properties of so-called birth control agents. This booklet should be required reading for all discerning Christians who wish to fully live out their faith."
~ William L. Toffler, M.D., Professor of Family Medicine,
Oregon Health Sciences University
11. "I endorse Randy Alcorn's book with gusto. He has answered the title question with the care and compassion of a pastor, having searched out the facts with the diligence of an experienced researcher. He has provided all women in their reproductive years with an invaluable resource which will allow them to be fully informed about the birth control pill."
~ William F. Colliton, Jr., M.D., Clinical Professor of Obstetrics and Gynecology,
George Washington University Medical Center
You may go to Randy Alcorn's web site and read a summary of this 88-page book by clicking here.
http://www.epm.org/articles/bcp5400.html
You may also order the inexpensive book from his site.
More facts about the Pill, IUDs, Depo-Provera and Norplant:
http://www.prolife.com/BIRTHCNT.html
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Strive to enter in at the strait gate:for many, I say unto you will seek to enter in, and shall not be able. ( Luke 13:24 )
Posts: 4578 | From: Southeast Texas | Registered: Jun 2002
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Good NewsforAll
Advanced Member
Member # 6156
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posted
quote:
Originally posted by ahar:
Abortion is murder.
However, that is different from the public policy discussion around whether to ban abortion or not.
Abortion is slaughter of the innocent and therefore a sin. We are putting judgment on our land if we don't prevent this degradation from happening.
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The Pharisees tell us what not to do. Jesus tells us what to do.
Romans 10:15 As it is written, "How beautiful are the feet of those who bring good news!"
Posts: 400 | Registered: Oct 2006
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ahar
Advanced Member
Member # 5810
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posted
It ma come as a surprise to those who think of me as a spawn-of-satan-left-winger but my belief on this chimes with itty-bitty-girl.
Abortion is murder.
However, that is different from the public policy discussion around whether to ban abortion or not.
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Cheers
Andy
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becauseHElives
Advanced Member
Member # 87
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posted
quote:
WildB
American Abortion Counter
http://www.biblehelp.org/abortioncnt.htm
41,476,523 MURDERED INNOCENT UN-BORN AMERICANS x (200 millilitres of blood or 6 ½ fluid ounces)/128 US fluid ounces =
2,106,229 Gallons of INNOCENT UNBORN AMERICAN BLOOD.
Down the drain reprocessed then back into the drinking water of the people.
No longer does the blood cry up from the ground but from the very water we drink.
Lev.17
[11] For the life of the flesh is in the blood:
Gen.4
[10] And he said, What hast thou done? the voice of thy brother's blood crieth unto me from the ground.
Amen WildB, thanks for the link
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Strive to enter in at the strait gate:for many, I say unto you will seek to enter in, and shall not be able. ( Luke 13:24 )
Posts: 4578 | From: Southeast Texas | Registered: Jun 2002
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Good NewsforAll
Advanced Member
Member # 6156
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posted
Since we still are speaking about abortion -
quote:
Originally posted by Itty-Bitty Girl:
It is never okay, just as I feel that abortion is never okay, but some do commit the act, and they have the right to do so.
Either it is a sin or it isn't. We can't sit on the fence.
Pro-choicers don't give enough support and information on what happens after an abortion, in the way of deep depression, guilt and sometimes thoughts of suicide.
Women who have miscarriages have family and friends as a support, but with a woman who has an abortion, she made that choice and should be happy. It must be a very lonely and hopeless place to be in. After all, life or not , the nurturing side of this woman must realize that this 'mass', as some insist on calling it, had the potential to become a human life one day and it may haunt them the rest of their lives.
Post- Abortion Syndrome (PAS)
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The Pharisees tell us what not to do. Jesus tells us what to do.
Romans 10:15 As it is written, "How beautiful are the feet of those who bring good news!"
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Good NewsforAll
Advanced Member
Member # 6156
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posted
quote:
Originally posted by Itty-Bitty Girl:
quote:
Originally posted by Good NewsforAll:
Back to topic - web page
The Real Losers in the Obama-Warren Controversy
Rick Warren's invitation to have Barack Obama speak at his mega-church's AIDS conference has sparked a furor in the evangelical community. But pro-life critics of Obama's inclusion may end up regretting their stance
By DAVID VAN BIEMA
"The situation also enhances Warren's standing. For years, Billy Graham was lambasted for inviting theological liberals — as well as people unpopular in the Evangelical South, like Martin Luther King, Jr. — to his crusades. He invariably responded that the attendees were endorsing his cause, not the other way around. Graham knew that he would alienate some co-believers, but they were people he was happy to alienate. He was in the business of leading evangelicalism back into the American mainstream by distinguishing it from hard-core fundamentalism, one of whose most irritating characteristics was "second-degree separation," a philosophy of ostracizing other Christians simply for dealing with people considered less spiritually pure. Graham's national reputation flourished while that of his opponents suffered."
Way to go Billy!! A good way to separate the wheat from the tares.
Back to topic?
Really?
It looks to me as if you have just changed the subject. If you have changed the subject, then how is getting "back to topic" changing the subject as you have just did in your reply above promoting Billy Graham?
What does "Way to go Billy!!" have to do with the spiteful email about Barack Obama?
I think you are misunderstanding something. You changed it to abortion and I was changing it back to the subject at hand, which was the Obama-Warren Controversy and showing how this sort of thing can backfire on them, using Billy Graham as an example.
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The Pharisees tell us what not to do. Jesus tells us what to do.
Romans 10:15 As it is written, "How beautiful are the feet of those who bring good news!"
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WildB
Moderator
Member # 2917
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posted
American Abortion Counter
http://www.biblehelp.org/abortioncnt.htm
41,476,523 MURDERED INNOCENT UN-BORN AMERICANS x (200 millilitres of blood or 6 ½ fluid ounces)/128 US fluid ounces =
2,106,229 Gallons of INNOCENT UNBORN AMERICAN BLOOD.
Down the drain reprocessed then back into the drinking water of the people.
No longer does the blood cry up from the ground but from the very water we drink.
Lev.17
[11] For the life of the flesh is in the blood:
Gen.4
[10] And he said, What hast thou done? the voice of thy brother's blood crieth unto me from the ground.
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That is all.....
Posts: 8775 | From: USA, MICHIGAN | Registered: Mar 2004
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becauseHElives
Advanced Member
Member # 87
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posted
Where in the world did Rick Warren get so far off track?
Rick Warren like so many others are taking a humanistic approach to the Gospel, which in turn produces an antichrist apostate church doctrine.
Rick Warren is a world leader in bringing about the end time ecumenical movement tying together the Apostate Churches so they will be ready to except and follow the beast.
So is Billy Graham...
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Strive to enter in at the strait gate:for many, I say unto you will seek to enter in, and shall not be able. ( Luke 13:24 )
Posts: 4578 | From: Southeast Texas | Registered: Jun 2002
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becauseHElives
Advanced Member
Member # 87
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posted
very well put yahsweh,
quote:
Itty-Bitty Girl, According to you and your opinion, but I can’t seem to find that in the bible.
Abortion in any shape,form or fashion in the eyes of Yahweh God is shedding innocent blood and is very displeasing to Yahweh.
Isaiah 59
1 Behold, Yahweh's hand is not shortened, that it can't save; neither his ear heavy, that it can't hear:
2 but your iniquities have separated between you and your God, and your sins have hidden his face from you, so that he will not hear.
3 For your hands are defiled with blood, and your fingers with iniquity; your lips have spoken lies, your tongue mutters wickedness.
4 None sues in righteousness, and none pleads in truth: they trust in vanity, and speak lies; they conceive mischief, and bring forth iniquity.
5 They hatch adders' eggs, and weave the spider's web: he who eats of their eggs dies; and that which is crushed breaks out into a viper.
6 Their webs shall not become garments, neither shall they cover themselves with their works: their works are works of iniquity, and the act of violence is in their hands.
7 Their feet run to evil, and they make haste to shed innocent blood: their thoughts are thoughts of iniquity; desolation and destruction are in their paths.
8 The way of peace they don't know; and there is no justice in their goings: they have made them crooked paths; whoever goes therein does not know peace.
9 Therefore is justice far from us, neither does righteousness overtake us: we look for light, but, behold, darkness; for brightness, but we walk in obscurity.
10 We grope for the wall like the blind; yes, we grope as those who have no eyes: we stumble at noonday as in the twilight; among those who are lusty we are as dead men.
11 We roar all like bears, and moan sore like doves: we look for justice, but there is none; for salvation, but it is far off from us.
12 For our transgressions are multiplied before you, and our sins testify against us; for our transgressions are with us, and as for our iniquities, we know them:
13 transgressing and denying Yahweh, and turning away from following our God, speaking oppression and revolt, conceiving and uttering from the heart words of falsehood.
14 Justice is turned away backward, and righteousness stands afar off; for truth is fallen in the street, and uprightness can't enter.
15 Yes, truth is lacking; and he who departs from evil makes himself a prey. Yahweh saw it, and it displeased him that there was no justice.
16 He saw that there was no man, and wondered that there was no intercessor: therefore his own arm brought salvation to him; and his righteousness, it upheld him.
17 He put on righteousness as a breastplate, and a helmet of salvation on his head; and he put on garments of vengeance for clothing, and was clad with zeal as a mantle.
18 According to their deeds, accordingly he will repay, wrath to his adversaries, recompense to his enemies; to the islands he will repay recompense.
19 So shall they fear the name of Yahweh from the west, and his glory from the rising of the sun; for he will come as a rushing stream, which the breath of Yahweh drives.
20 "A Redeemer will come to Zion, and to those who turn from disobedience in Jacob," says Yahweh.
21 "As for me, this is my covenant with them," says Yahweh. "My Spirit who is on you, and my words which I have put in your mouth, shall not depart out of your mouth, nor out of the mouth of your seed, nor out of the mouth of your seed's seed," says Yahweh, "from henceforth and forever."
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Strive to enter in at the strait gate:for many, I say unto you will seek to enter in, and shall not be able. ( Luke 13:24 )
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yahsway
Advanced Member
Member # 3738
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posted
I agree that "abortion" is a choice but is it the choice God would have one make?
God told Rebecca that there were 2 Nations and 2 peoples in her womb. They were not born yet, but God had a plan. These 2 "fetuses" as far as God was concerned were 2 "citizens" of 2 different Nations.
God told Jeremiah "Before I formed you in the womb I knew you; Before you were born I sanctified you; I ordained you a prophet to the nations."
Abortion maybe a womans right to choose, but that does not make it a right choice where Gods laws and holiness and rightousness are concerned. A Christian should be more concerned with how God views a "fetus" and abortion than how man views it.
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Itty-Bitty Girl
Advanced Member
Member # 4579
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posted
quote:
Originally posted by Good NewsforAll:
Back to topic - web page
The Real Losers in the Obama-Warren Controversy
Rick Warren's invitation to have Barack Obama speak at his mega-church's AIDS conference has sparked a furor in the evangelical community. But pro-life critics of Obama's inclusion may end up regretting their stance
By DAVID VAN BIEMA
"The situation also enhances Warren's standing. For years, Billy Graham was lambasted for inviting theological liberals — as well as people unpopular in the Evangelical South, like Martin Luther King, Jr. — to his crusades. He invariably responded that the attendees were endorsing his cause, not the other way around. Graham knew that he would alienate some co-believers, but they were people he was happy to alienate. He was in the business of leading evangelicalism back into the American mainstream by distinguishing it from hard-core fundamentalism, one of whose most irritating characteristics was "second-degree separation," a philosophy of ostracizing other Christians simply for dealing with people considered less spiritually pure. Graham's national reputation flourished while that of his opponents suffered."
Way to go Billy!! A good way to separate the wheat from the tares.
Back to topic?
Really?
It looks to me as if you have just changed the subject. If you have changed the subject, then how is getting "back to topic" changing the subject as you have just did in your reply above promoting Billy Graham?
What does "Way to go Billy!!" have to do with the spiteful email about Barack Obama?
Posts: 1051 | Registered: Apr 2005
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Itty-Bitty Girl
Advanced Member
Member # 4579
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posted
quote:
Originally posted by Good NewsforAll:
Amen - IT IS MURDER.
According to you and your opinion, but I can’t seem to find that in the bible.
quote:
Originally posted by Good NewsforAll:
If we give the woman the right to choose what she does with her own body, is it also ok for her to commit suicide?
It is never okay, just as I feel that abortion is never okay, but some do commit the act, and they have the right to do so. I don’t see anyone passing legislation against suicide. Is suicide against the law? If so, then what is the penalty for breaking that law? I am not calling suicide okay, but I am trying to make the point that passing legislation against the act is unreasonable.
quote:
Originally posted by Good NewsforAll:
Anyway, it is not her body she is getting rid of. It is the body of a defenceless living unborn child.
The fetus is in the woman’s body. The woman’s body; the woman’s choice. I have no doubt that the fetus is alive, but it is a fetus nonetheless. Fetuses are not even born. Fetuses don’t have natural-born rights to me, because in order to have natural-born rights, you have to be natural-born first, you have to be born, and fetuses are NOT even born but the woman who carries the fetus is natural-born.
quote:
Originally posted by Good NewsforAll:
Don't mess with God. I have known of people who survived a botch-upped abortion, and they are so thankful to be alive.
“People” is the key word. People survive abortions, fetuses don’t. Abortions kill fetuses, murder kills people.
quote:
Originally posted by Good NewsforAll:
However, once the egg is fertilized it has become God's creation from the moment of conception, not to be tampered with.
Psalm 51: For I was born a sinner; yes, from the moment my mother conceived me.
Conception does not mean rights as an American citizen, and conception is not birth. Being born means rights as an American citizen, and the woman is born. Fetuses are not citizens; being BORN on American soil or being naturalized into this country is what makes a person a citizen of this country, not being conceived, but being BORN.
So with that, I feel that it was an evil thing to do in that article, to just demonize this Christian Democrat, senator Barack Obama, just for his stance on women's rights.
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Just an Idea.
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becauseHElives
Advanced Member
Member # 87
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posted
quote:
Good NewsforAll
Not just convenient for our circumstance, but what about the welfare of bringing a child into this world? Frequently it is not a blessing to add another child to an already volatile situation.
I want argue with you, ...
If Yahweh calls something a Blessing then I will agree with Him.
Yahweh said Blessed is the man who's quiver is full...
Yashua/Jesus said suffer the little children come to me...
You dissagree, that fine with me.
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Strive to enter in at the strait gate:for many, I say unto you will seek to enter in, and shall not be able. ( Luke 13:24 )
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Good NewsforAll
Advanced Member
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posted
The question is, what were Onan's motives? They weren't merely to use birth control, but it was done with a convetous, selfish heart?
John McGill's Exposition -Genesis 38:10
"And the thing which he did displeased the Lord…"
Being done out of envy to his brother, and through want of affection to the memory of his name; and it may be out of covetousness to get his estate into his own hands, and especially as it frustrated the end of such an usage of marrying a brother's wife; which appears to be according to the will of God, since it afterwards became a known law of his; and it was the more displeasing, as it was not only a check upon the multiplication of Abraham's seed as promised, but since the Messiah was to come from Judah. This was doing all to hinder it that lay in his power."
quote:
Originally posted by becauseHElives:
Good NewsforAll, You make a good argument for humanism, but you have no scriptural precepts to base your ideas.
What is the basis for Faith in Yahweh / God?
Do I trust God / Yahweh only when it is convenient for my circumstances?
Not just convenient for our circumstance, but what about the welfare of bringing a child into this world? Frequently it is not a blessing to add another child to an already volatile situation.
Prayer and careful intercession should be taken before bringing children into this world. We just aren't buying a cute little puppy, or think it is God's will to accumulate a whole litter. If that is God's choice for your life, that is great, but people shouldn't have children just for the sake of having children.
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The Pharisees tell us what not to do. Jesus tells us what to do.
Romans 10:15 As it is written, "How beautiful are the feet of those who bring good news!"
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WildB
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posted
"You should always complete a thought when quoting scripture…"
Says who?
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That is all.....
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becauseHElives
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posted
Good NewsforAll, You make a good argument for humanism, but you have no scriptural precepts to base your ideas.
What is the basis for Faith in Yahweh / God?
Do I trust God / Yahweh only when it is convenient for my circumstances?
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Strive to enter in at the strait gate:for many, I say unto you will seek to enter in, and shall not be able. ( Luke 13:24 )
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becauseHElives
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quote:
WildB
8Then Judah said to Onan, ‘Go in to your brother’s wife and perform the duty of a brother-in-law to her; raise up offspring for your brother.’ 9But since Onan knew that the offspring would not be his, he spilled his semen on the ground whenever he went in to his brother’s wife, so that he would not give offspring to his brother.
You should always complete a thought when quoting scripture…
Verse 10 of that passage says…. What he did was displeasing in the sight of the LORD, and he put him to death also.
Gen 38:8-10
8Then Judah said to Onan, ‘Go in to your brother’s wife and perform the duty of a brother-in-law to her; raise up offspring for your brother.’ 9But since Onan knew that the offspring would not be his, he spilled his semen on the ground whenever he went in to his brother’s wife, so that he would not give offspring to his brother. 10What he did was displeasing in the sight of the LORD, and he put him to death also.
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Strive to enter in at the strait gate:for many, I say unto you will seek to enter in, and shall not be able. ( Luke 13:24 )
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Good NewsforAll
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posted
Women should use wisdom when using birth control, and follow their own personal conscience. The pill isn't the only method of birth control.
Proverbs 2:6 For the LORD gives wisdom; From His mouth come knowledge and understanding;
What about the woman who may develop a serious heart problem and risk her life by getting pregnant? She wouldn't be there for her husband and possibly other children from their union.
What if a family is financially strapped and barely have enough food on the table, and add to the possible financial strain in the future? Chidren are our responsibility, and we shouldn't depend on society to provide for them.
Third World countries should practice birth control more often. With so much famine, it is cruel to bring a child into the world to add another emaciated statistic to the list.
However, care should be taken that any type of birth control doesn't abort an egg that has been fertilized. Once fertilized, it becomes life.
The Bible says "Go ye into the world and multiply." Jesus and Paul didn't fulfill this commission, so therefore this command must be generic, and not for each and every one of us. Many good Christians can't bear children.
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The Pharisees tell us what not to do. Jesus tells us what to do.
Romans 10:15 As it is written, "How beautiful are the feet of those who bring good news!"
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WildB
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posted
Gen.38
[8] And Judah said unto Onan, Go in unto thy brother's wife, and marry her, and raise up seed to thy brother.
[9] And Onan knew that the seed should not be his; and it came to pass, when he went in unto his brother's wife, that he spilled it on the ground, lest that he should give seed to his brother.
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That is all.....
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becauseHElives
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quote:
Good NewsforAll
Birth control is different, especially when you hear of poor women who have gone through bearing 10 or 11 children. If God wants there to be life, no birth control will work.
(bold added by becauseHElives)
poor women who have gone through bearing 10 or 11 children (listen to your self, that the exact mind set I am reffering too!) you call a curse, what Yahweh calls a Blessing!
You need to a little research before you comment...
Birth (Mind) Control
by Mrs. Akua Furlow
The term "birth control" is easily identified in historical writings as a term that was first coined by Margaret Sanger. When Sanger spoke of birth control, she was addressing the need to take control of and thus "limit the births" of the "unfit", the "dysgenic", the "human weeds". Sanger believed that certain racial groups and the poor were inferior. The term has since evolved to be synonymous to contraceptives. The actual definition of contraception means "the prevention of that union between sperm and ovum (conception) which may result from sexual activity" [1], or conception. However, this term too has taken on a subverted meaning. Most people believe that birth control pills are contraceptives. Actually, birth control pills are abortifacients. Abortifacients are devices or drugs that causes an abortion [2]. Intrauterine devices (or IUD) are devices of various shapes placed inside the uterus, altering the lining of the uterus in such a way as to prevent the (fertilized) developing human egg to implant in the uterine lining and growing to maturity.
The truth about conception has also been perverted to dismiss pregnancy. Pro-abortion, pro-"contraception" peddlers have re-defined pregnancy as the implantation of the fertilized egg. Using this definition , if birth control pills or an IUD prevents implantation of the (fertilized) developing egg, then it can be stated that birth control pills and IUD's prevent pregnancy.
In the pamphlet "A Guide To The Methods Of Contraception", "a service of" Ortho Pharmaceutical Corporation, the following language is used to describe the action of birth control pills:
"Most pills are a combination of two hormones (progestogen and estrogen) and are called combination oral contraceptives. There are some pills which contain only one hormone (a progestogen). These are called progestogen-only pills.... In the pill that contains both hormones (combination pills), the estrogen prevents pregnancy by stopping the development of the egg in the ovary. The progestogen changes the mucus in the cervix and helps prevent the sperm from reaching the egg. Also, the lining of the uterus does not become fully developed so that even if an egg does ripen and is fertilized, there is little likelihood it would become implanted.... Another type of pill (often called progestogen-only pill) contains only progestogen. The progestogen prevents the development of the egg in some women". The pamphlet boasts that the pills are "97-99% effective in preventing pregnancy."
These verbal gymnastics have been used to seduce women around the globe to take a chemical that will alter the uterine, creating such an unreceptive environment that the tiny human life won't have a place to lay its' head.
Despite the fact the at the moment of conception the human egg had its' complete DNA requirements that serves as a map to determine all the characteristic of this individual, and that by the time most women even know that they are pregnant this same individual has heart pulsation and brain function, the pro-choice proponent choose not to acknowledge the personhood of this, the smallest member of the human family. They also choose not to tell women the truth about the abortifacient nature of pills and IUD'S. Norplant, Depo-Provera, and RU 486 all function similarly as abortifacients. They would rather keep these devices of deception "user friendly". What many have accepted as birth control is really mind control!!
CONTROL TO EXERCISE AUTHORITY OVER; DIRECT; COMMAND. THE ACT OF FACT OF CONTROLLING; POWER TO DIRECT OR REGULATE. THE CONDITION OF BEING DIRECTED OR RESTRAINED. WEBSTER'S NEW WORLD DICTIONARY (1982)
Wake up thou that sleepeth!!!! Ephesians 5:14 NKJV.
My people perish because of a lack of knowledge,.... but some have rejected knowledge, I also will reject you... Hosea 4:6 NKJV
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Strive to enter in at the strait gate:for many, I say unto you will seek to enter in, and shall not be able. ( Luke 13:24 )
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Good NewsforAll
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posted
Back to topic - web page
The Real Losers in the Obama-Warren Controversy
Rick Warren's invitation to have Barack Obama speak at his mega-church's AIDS conference has sparked a furor in the evangelical community. But pro-life critics of Obama's inclusion may end up regretting their stance
By DAVID VAN BIEMA
"The situation also enhances Warren's standing. For years, Billy Graham was lambasted for inviting theological liberals — as well as people unpopular in the Evangelical South, like Martin Luther King, Jr. — to his crusades. He invariably responded that the attendees were endorsing his cause, not the other way around. Graham knew that he would alienate some co-believers, but they were people he was happy to alienate. He was in the business of leading evangelicalism back into the American mainstream by distinguishing it from hard-core fundamentalism, one of whose most irritating characteristics was "second-degree separation," a philosophy of ostracizing other Christians simply for dealing with people considered less spiritually pure. Graham's national reputation flourished while that of his opponents suffered."
Way to go Billy!! A good way to separate the wheat from the tares.
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The Pharisees tell us what not to do. Jesus tells us what to do.
Romans 10:15 As it is written, "How beautiful are the feet of those who bring good news!"
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Good NewsforAll
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quote:
Originally posted by David:
Yes abortion is murder!
It always will be and it does not matter what people what to do to act like it is not.
IT IS!
Amen - IT IS MURDER. If we give the woman the right to choose what she does with her own body, is it also ok for her to commit suicide? If a gravely sick family member has the right to choose what they want to do their body, should be assist them in euthenasia?
Anyway, it is not her body she is getting rid of. It is the body of a defenceless living unborn child. Pro-abortionists don't seem to have any answers as to when it passes from what they call a 'mass' into a living being. How can you tell at what precise time it happens? Yesterday it was a mass and to-day it is a living soul??
Don't mess with God. I have known of people who survived a botch-upped abortion, and they are so thankful to be alive.
Birth control is different, especially when you hear of poor women who have gone through bearing 10 or 11 children. If God wants there to be life, no birth control will work.
However, once the egg is fertilized it has become God's creation from the moment of conception, not to be tampered with.
Psalm 51: For I was born a sinner; yes, from the moment my mother conceived me.
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The Pharisees tell us what not to do. Jesus tells us what to do.
Romans 10:15 As it is written, "How beautiful are the feet of those who bring good news!"
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becauseHElives
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Abortion, oh my, what a subject!
Let he that is without sin cast the first stone.
Yahweh showed me sometime back that the fruit of the womb is so precious to Him
Today the many Christian’s think it is murder to kill by abortion, but think nothing about taking birth control…
But both are murder in Yahweh’s eyes.
Remember the scripture with what measure you meet out to others; it shall be measured back unto you.
Remember, Yeshua’s words when He said ….
Ye have heard that it was said by them of old time, Thou shalt not commit adultery:
But I say unto you, That whosoever looketh on a woman to lust after her hath committed adultery with her already in his heart.
Ye have heard that it was said by them of old time, Thou shalt not kill; and whosoever shall kill shall be in danger of the judgment:
But I say unto you, That whosoever is angry with his brother without a cause shall be in danger of the judgment: and whosoever shall say to his brother, Raca, shall be in danger of the council: but whosoever shall say, Thou fool, shall be in danger of hell fire.
In America today the fruit of the womb is viewed as a curse, any family with more than two children is thought to be crazy.
But Yahweh says the man who's quiver is full is Blessed!
Most people will not be honest with themselves, the reason people chose to have one or two children are for the same reasons people have abortions, convenience and cost.
Don’t get me wrong, I am totally against abortion in any shape, form or fashion.
But unless you are willing to remove the tree from your own eye, don’t try to remove the speck from your brother’s eye.
The heart of every issue, is the heart of the issue!
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Strive to enter in at the strait gate:for many, I say unto you will seek to enter in, and shall not be able. ( Luke 13:24 )
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KnowHim
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Yes abortion is murder!
It always will be and it does not matter what people what to do to act like it is not.
IT IS!
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WildB
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I like what my GunnyB said,
"You're either for allowing the innocent to live...
...or for KILLING them for convenience and discarding like so much trash IMO. Sick, and sad, really..."
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That is all.....
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Kindgo
Advanced Member
Member # 2
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posted
Originally posted by WildB:
Killing a child at any
stage of life is a violation of God's clear command, "Thou Shall Do No
Murder".
I agree with WildB abortion is murder.
No if ands or buts.
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God bless,
Kindgo
Inside the will of God there is no failure. Outside the will of God there is no success.
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Itty-Bitty Girl
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posted
I find that article offensive, because I love Senator Barack Obama and I just hate the way this article is portraying him, I hate the tasteless demonization of this Christian Democrat that this article disagrees with. I believe that it is good that the man chose to speak about the AIDS crisis to this church. And I do not like the hatred that I see in that hateful article.
I see this article as a right-wing bitter effort to demonize Democrats.
quote:
Originally posted by WildB:
In the strongest possible terms, we oppose Rick Warren's decision to ignore
Senator Obama's clear pro-death stance and invite him to Saddleback Church
anyway.
Pro-choice does not mean “pro-death” to me.
I believe that women should not have abortions, but I acknowledge the fact that I am not the only person on earth, and there are other people on earth who do not share the same beliefs as I do. Just as I have the right to choose not to have an abortion, others should have the right to choose to have one. I am a pro-choice Christian Democrat. I believe that American women are citizens of America and should have unlimited rights, and if America is really the “land of the free”, then a women’s right to an abortion should not even be a debatable issue. I believe that women should have the natural-born “right to choose” what to do with their own bodies.
In supporting a woman’s right to choose, I am in no way at all justifying the act of abortion, but I am just supporting a woman's right of choice to either do the act or not. Just as I believe it is unreasonable to pass legislation making it unlawful for a woman not to have an abortion, I believe it is unreasonable to pass legislation making it unlawful for a woman to have one, because it limits a woman’s rights. Woman’s rights becoming a debatable issue is proof to me that America is growing into a fascist nation. Freedoms that Americans have are already in the act of being limited if they are not already limited.
quote:
Originally posted by WildB:
Killing a child at any
stage of life is a violation of God's clear command, "Thou Shall Do No
Murder".
Where is it? Why can’t I find that in the bible? According to this person abortion is “murder,” yet I cannot find anywhere in the bible where abortion is considered murder, so it looks to me like this person has inserted their own judgment into God’s word, corrupting it, just as the “Christian” traditionalists who stole the land from the Native-Americans and lied about founding this country did in the 1600’s, just as “Christian” traditionalists who condoned chattel slavery did in the 1800’s, just as the “Christian” traditionalists who instituted the Black Codes did in the 1860’s, just as the “Christian” traditionalists who fought against a woman’s right to vote did in the 1900’s, just as the “Christian” traditionalists who instituted the Jim Crow laws did in the 1890’s, just as the “Christian” traditionalists who fought against the Civil Rights movement did in the 1960’s.
It is a shame to me that this same “Christian” traditionalist mentality has not faded away with time, the same mentality that seeks to suffocate and infringe upon the rights and freedoms of others while the “Christian” traditionalists’ own freedoms remain untouched and unchallenged.
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Just an idea.
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teclar
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posted
Totally agree with you, from Australia. Satan is a murderer as clearly stated by Jesus, and this bill is nothing more than carrying out Satan's plan to steal, kill and destroy. Furthermore, it is obvious that our adversary does not want Christians to have Godly offspring and so, we here in Australia, certainly disagree with this bill, and may the Lord open the pastor's eyes to see this as a major sin, otherwise, where does this pastor stand, really?
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WildB
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posted
Two articles below.
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Rick Warren/Barack Obama AIDS Partnership Must End,
Say Pro-Life Groups
MILWAUKEE, Wisconsin, Nov. 27 /Christian Newswire/ -- As those who have
worked to defend preborn children from the horrors of abortion in America
and who have stood uncompromisingly against the legalized slaughter of an
estimated 50 million Americans in the womb since 1973, we join with one
voice in expressing our indignation and opposition to Rick Warren's
welcoming of Senator Barack Obama to his church on December 1, 2006. Rick
Warren is bringing Senator Obama to his church to speak for his Global
Summit on AIDS and the church and to take an AIDS test in front of the
cameras at a noon press conference.
Senator Obama comes to Rick Warren's church believing that abortion should
be kept, "safe and legal". When Barack Obama campaigned for the U.S. Senate
in 2004, his wife wrote a fundraising letter for him that revealed his
support of partial-birth abortion. She said Obama's position is that the
"partial-birth abortion ban . . . is clearly unconstitutional and must be
overturned." Support of partial-birth abortion goes a lot farther than the
politicians who want abortion to be "safe and legal." Senator Obama actually
supports the barbaric practice of allowing abortionists to kill babies by
allowing them to be partially, born, their skulls punctured and their brains
sucked out. Further, he repeatedly opposed an anti-infanticide bill in the
state of Illinois that only passed after he left. Killing a child at any
stage of life is a violation of God's clear command, "Thou Shall Do No
Murder". In addition,Obama's solution to the growing AIDS crisis has been
and continues to be the !
widespread distribution of condoms, not chaste behavior as directed by the
Bible.
In the strongest possible terms, we oppose Rick Warren's decision to ignore
Senator Obama's clear pro-death stance and invite him to Saddleback Church
anyway. If Senator Obama cannot defend the most helpless citizens in our
country, he has nothing to say to the AIDS crisis. You cannot fight one evil
while justifying another. The evangelical church can provide no genuine help
for those who suffer from AIDS if those involved do not first have their
ethic of life firmly rooted in the Word of God. Accordingly, we call on
Pastor Rick Warren to rescind his invitation to Senator Obama immediately.
The millions of silent victims who have died because of the policies of
leaders like Senator Obama demand a response from those who believe that
life is a gift from God. The name of the seminar at which Senator Obama will
be appearing is entitled, " We Must Work Together." No, Mr. Warren, Mr.
Obama, we will never work with those can support the murder of babies in the
womb.
Phyllis Schlafly, President and Founder, Eagle Forum
Judie Brown, President, American Life League
Tim Wildmon, President American Family Association and American Family Radio
Joe Scheidler, President, Pro-Life Action League
Cheryl Sullenger, Operation Rescue
Matt Trewhella, Missionaries to the Preborn
Brannon Howse, President, Worldview Weekend, Christian Worldview Network
Janet Folger, President, Faith2Action
Peter LaBarbera, President, Americans for Truth
Greg Cunningham, President, Center for Bioethical Reform, Lake Forest,
California
Peggy Hamill, Director, Pro-Life Wisconsin
Cal Zastrow, Christian Action for the Preborn
Dr. Vic Eliason, President, VCY America Radio Network
Ingrid Schlueter, Host, Crosstalk Radio Talk Show
Kevin McCullough, Host, Musclehead Revolution, WMCA Radio
Chris Rosebrough, Capo Valley Church, San Juan Capistrano, California
Rev. Ken Silva, Apprising Ministries
Linda Harvey, President, Mission America
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Christian Newswire
To: National Desk
Contact: Kevin McCullough, WMCA Radio, New York City, 201-835-7803;
or
Ingrid Schlueter, VCY America Radio Network, Milwaukee, 414-881-5852
VCY America Radio Network
Forward this press release to another reporter or news producer
Christian Communication Network | 2020 Pennsylvania Avenue, NW | Washington
| DC | 20006
--------------------------------
Second article, go to
World Net Daily,
http://worldnetdaily.com/news/article.asp?ARTICLE_ID=53121
"Rick Warren called 'enabler and defender' of evil--
Megapastor's appearance in Syrian propaganda triggers criticism"
--------------------------------
This e-mail is from Mission America, and is intended for news and
educational purposes only.Not everything we send out is necessarily endorsed
by our organization.
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That is all.....
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