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Author
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Topic: CAN GOD USE RAP MUSIC FOR HIMSELF?
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freddy05
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Member # 5854
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posted
One more thing... I´ve avoided saying this so far out of respect for my elders... BUT I CANT STAND HYMNS!!! The music makes me want to rip my eyes out. I really can´t understand how that is considered a joyful noise to God. I think many other 70s babies would agree with me too! I feel as passionately about how dull and boring hymns are as some others here feel about how bad rap is. I hear evangelicals complain about lituragy in Catholic and Lutheran churches often... but from my perspective hymns are the same thing! Boring ramblings that can put people to sleep.
HOWEVER! Honestly... I understand that people have different tastes, so I have NO PROBLEM if someone chooses or enjoys hymns. And even though I can´t stand them, I know God is powerful enough to use hymns!
Posts: 102 | Registered: Jun 2006
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freddy05
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posted
Becausehelives-
One thing you seem to have completely missed apparently... is that God HAS used both Rap and Rock. Note the use of the word "HAS"... past tense. God has already used it.
I remember in my younger years going to a DC Talk concert (they do BOTH Rock and Rap, even heavy metal!) and I remember seeing quite the alter call after the concert and their message. There had to have been people in the thousands dedicating or rededicating their lives to Christ.
God can´t use it huh?
Posts: 102 | Registered: Jun 2006
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helpforhomeschoolers
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Member # 15
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posted
All things are legal, but all things do not profit.
First let me say that I like all kinds of music. From heavy metal to classical, to reggae to Brian Eno and just about anything in between. There is no instrument I love to hear more than a sax and so I like Jazz, and blues and swing. I like what we used to call int he 70's soul music; I even like the beat of club music and hip hop and rap though I dont think rap is truly music. I like country music too and though I am completely opposed to the moral values of songs like Honky Tonk padonk adonk.. my feet still tap to the beat if I do not purposfully close my ears to it and it is playing around me. But I dont listen to these things.
Dale is right... this life is about the denial of self.. the denial of the desires of our flesh.
Now having said all that I go back to my orginal statement... all things are legal but all things do not profit...
This is a photo of an ice crystal frozen in the presence of Baach....
this is a picture of an ice crystal frozen in the presence of heavy metal rock & roll music....
Sound is wave phenomenon. Sound waves are readily transmitted through water. The human body is some 90 something precent water. Sound affects the human body. It can affect the human body in a positive way or a negative way. The blood chemistry of humans can be altered by sound. This is why sound therapy is used to treat a range of illnesses. Sound can raise or lower heart rate and blood pressure. Sound can effect mood physically by altering blood chemistry.
The fact that you like the music does not change this and this is a scientifically documented fact. I like the music of Metalica but that will not change the fact that the sound waves are capable of producing effects in my body that are not healthy or desirable.
So, if rebellion is the sin of witchcraft and the Bible says that it is... and if rebellion is the impetous that began rock & roll and other forms of sound that are as Dale has described from a scientific point of view and capable of causing as I have shown non desireable physical effects in the body then does it not stand to reason that GOD would care what we listen to?
Music is indeed the universal language. Music can conjure in my body the very same emotions that it can conjure in another who is of a totallly different culture... it will change heart rate and bloodpressure irrespective of our like or dislike. Words are immaterial to the discussion this is about wave action.
Did GOD not confuse language because it was (a) in his will, and (b) for the good of man who is subject to the deceptions of his own carnality and the works of the Evil one? Then I ask you who do you think is behind the corruption of sound waves and the universal language of music that was given to man for the purpose of praising GOD... is it possible that GOd is not praised by some sound waves?
We all have to make these decisions for our selves based on the leading of the Holy Spirit. And yes, GOD can use Rap music the very same way GOD is able to take every thing that Satan does and turn it to glorify HIMSELF and to bring good to HIS children, but should he have to because the Children of GOD are seeking to hang on to the things that are of the world and to bring GOd into their worldly lives instead of being reconcilled to HIS Holy one?
We do not need to imitate the world and call it Christian do we? Is this life about what we like and desire or is it about the denial of those things and the learning through HIS spirit to desire what HE desires? Is it about us or about HIM?
Posts: 4684 | From: Southern Black Hills of South Dakota | Registered: Jun 2002
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BrianGrass1234
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posted
this is from wikipedia
A rebellion is, in the most general sense, a refusal to accept authority. It may therefore be seen as encompassing a range of behaviours from civil disobedience to a violent organized attempt to destroy established authority. It is often used in reference to armed resistance against an established government, but can also refer to mass nonviolent resistance movements. Those who participate in rebellions are known as "rebels".
Posts: 203 | From: Weed, CA | Registered: Jun 2006
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Jazzee
Advanced Member
Member # 6040
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posted
actually I think it is an interesting twist.
( who define what is rebellious and when was it defined)
wish someone would comment ![[wave3]](graemlins/18.gif) ![[hyper]](graemlins/hyper.gif)
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all things are possible for she who believes in the Lord
Posts: 34 | From: Denmark | Registered: Aug 2006
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shadowmaker
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posted
quote:
Originally posted by Jazzee:
Because He lives
You never replied to my post about how to define rebellion. Did you read it?
She hasnt responded to my question about Psalms 150 either.
The scripture in Esp that you posted says have nothing to do with the UNFRUITFUL DEEDS. If someone is glorifying God thru a song, how can you say its unfruitful?
The site that is posted and you went to, goes to the MyPage main website. I dont think the things you were seeing are for his personal website. I dont like MyPage bc there is alot of filth and I dont go there. But this guys particular site I didnt find anything. And even if you did that doesnt mean that every Christian rap song or writer isnt doing Gods work. We have false preachers and teachers but we dont stop going to church.
Again, the question was can God use rap? Not about rap being noise, or anything else. Can God use it? Personally, I d rather turn the radio off and listen to the tires roar than listen to rap. But God CAN USE IT IF HE WANTS TOO!!!! I dont underestimate the power of God.
And as far as body piercing and tattoos go, what does that have to do with anything? I guess now you cant be a Christian if you have any or got one?? Getting your ear pierced is a body piercing, what difference does it make if you do anywhere else? And for the record, I have none.
Posts: 272 | Registered: Jul 2004
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Jazzee
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posted
Because He lives
You never replied to my post about how to define rebellion. Did you read it?
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all things are possible for she who believes in the Lord
Posts: 34 | From: Denmark | Registered: Aug 2006
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Itty-Bitty Girl
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posted
The more I read your posts, Dale, the more I get turned away from rap. I'm thinking about not listening to it anymore.
Posts: 1051 | Registered: Apr 2005
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Itty-Bitty Girl
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posted
quote:
Originally posted by becauseHElives:
your idea of Christian living is deplorable ,
half nude men and women, tattooed and pierced bodies, the use of crude, vulgar language, one instance I saw of the use of the “ F” word …
I did not see that on his site. However, if this is true, then that behavior that you mention is unacceptable and can by no means be justified.
I don't know, you might have a point, and you might not.
I want to glorify God in all that I do. I don't want to sin, I don't want to listen to the devil's music! Rap music is rap music. It can't ALL be evil, can it? I feel like I am losing my mind here.
Posts: 1051 | Registered: Apr 2005
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becauseHElives
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Member # 87
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posted
I took the time to better look at the web link promoting your music…
http://www.myspace.com/ludamiz777
your idea of Christian living is deplorable ,
half nude men and women, tattooed and pierced bodies, the use of crude, vulgar language, one instance I saw of the use of the “ F” word …
but it is exactly what I would expect to find on a Rap Music site… trash
"And have NO FELLOWSHIP with the unfruitful works of darkness, but rather reprove them. For it is a shame even to speak of those things which are done of them in secret." (Ephesians 5:11-12)
I have tried to reprove you but you all think you know so much….
For I am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ: for it is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth; to the Jew first, and also to the Greek. For therein is the righteousness of God revealed from faith to faith: as it is written, The just shall live by faith. For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men, who hold the truth in unrighteousness; Because that which may be known of God is manifest in them; for God hath shewed it unto them. For the invisible things of him from the creation of the world are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even his eternal power and Godhead; so that they are without excuse: Because that, WHEN THEY KNEW GOD, they glorified him not as God, neither were thankful; but became vain in their imaginations, and their foolish heart was darkened.
Professing themselves to be wise, they became fools, And changed the glory of the uncorruptible God into an image made like to corruptible man, and to birds, and fourfooted beasts, and creeping things. Wherefore God also gave them up to uncleanness through the lusts of their own hearts, to dishonour their own bodies between themselves: Who changed the truth of God into a lie, and worshipped and served the creature more than the Creator, who is blessed for ever. Amen” (Romans 1: 16-25).
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Strive to enter in at the strait gate:for many, I say unto you will seek to enter in, and shall not be able. ( Luke 13:24 )
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Itty-Bitty Girl
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posted
It's a good thing that my music doesn't cause anyone to stumble. I keeps it gospel.
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BrianGrass1234
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posted
Check out Romans 14 and swap out the food references for musical tastes.
You'll see it goes both ways kinda. If you believe your taste in music is OK than it is, but do not judge you brothers. But if your music is causing your brother to stumble, than you shouln't listen to it around them.
So if you think that rap, rock, punk, dance, jazz, the blues or any other kind of music is wrong, you shouldn't listen or create it cause it would be wrong to do so for you, but don't judge others that are fine with it.
Also if you think that all kinds of music is fine, then don't judge the brother who thinks they are not. And further more don't cause that brother to stumble by bringing it around them.
So as far as ludamizleeto's music goes, he should do what he loves, just make sure that he is not a stumbling block for some, but bring his music to those who enjoy it.
Posts: 203 | From: Weed, CA | Registered: Jun 2006
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Itty-Bitty Girl
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posted
quote:
Originally posted by becauseHElives:
I do not believe that this rock and roll strategy with its accompanying attitude has been used anywhere where there has been a real revival of purity, holiness and humility. But if God does use it for such a thing, I would be delighted to be proven wrong on this issue.
"Pursue righteousness, faith, love, and peace...."
This is the message of a Christian Rock song that I really like.
It's called, "If You Just Believe", by John Elefante:
If You Just Believe, by John Elefante
quote:
Originally posted by becauseHElives:
Does the fact that someone can play the guitar brilliantly or sing well mean that God wants to put him in a place of prominence in His church? I don't think the message of a true prophet of God is that God wants us to have more fun, to be more cool and things like that.
The true message is still "Repent, for the Kingdom of Heaven is at hand."
"Walk away from sin and all impurity, seek ye His kingdom..." That is what that Christian Rock song says.
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freddy05
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posted
quote:
Originally posted by shadowmaker:
Its ok for you to not like it. It really is. But for you to tell someone that they cant use it to glorify God is just your opinion. And if you say God CANT use it, then you are underestimating the power of God.
I don´t have time for a proper response, but AMEN to that shadowmaker!
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shadowmaker
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posted
quote:
Originally posted by becauseHElives:
anything I say about rap music can be applied to rock music or jazz music
quote:
Since Rock and Roll was your culture, do you see something wrong with GOSPEL Christian rock?
quote:
"The wisdom which is from above is first pure, then peaceable, gentle, willing to yield, full of mercy and good fruits, without partiality and without hypocrisy. Now the fruit of righteousness is sown in peace by those who make peace." (James 3:17,18). To me, even the style of rock music communicates agitation, restlessness and distraction. Its proven to be the perfect medium to promote the spirit of rebellion against God. Is Christian rock pure? Is it peaceable? Is it gentle? It is only because we the church in the west have abandoned the wisdom of God that we find it necessary to use the method of rock music as a tool of evangelism. Like the Israelites who used some of the Canaanites as servants instead of slaying them, we too have been more tolerant than God, and more pragmatic than God also. This is one reason why the church today lacks convicting power and seems to need all kinds of gimmicks to avoid boring people. We want to fascinate, rather than confront. I'm telling you, when God is there in power, its highly relevant to your personal life, and it has nothing to do with the presence or absence of gimmicks. Paul experienced God in a horrible prison cell. He didn't even have a radio.
Yes I do as I said if any of you had taken the time to read what i posted...
quote:
Rock music has always been strongly hedonistic in nature, and doesn't transmit peace. How suitable is it as a medium for the "gospel of peace"? Yes, Rock Music can attract people to chuch meetings. But then again, so did the Emporer Constantine when he brought a flood of paganism into the church and gave birth to the Roman Catholic/Orthodox church power structure.
quote:
I do not believe that this rock and roll strategy with its accompanying attitude has been used anywhere where there has been a real revival of purity, holiness and humility. But if God does use it for such a thing, I would be delighted to be proven wrong on this issue.
quote:
A lot of the material put out by the CCM crowd is designed to appeal to pleasure-loving, carnal Christians. In the last days, the Bible warns, "men will be lovers of pleasure .. having a form of godliness (Christianity) but denying the power thereof" (2 Timothy 3:1-5). The true power of God comes through the cross. Not the cross as worn by pop icons such as Prince and Madonna, but the principal of (painful) death to the world and the flesh in order to sacrificially devote oneself to God and His pleasure. In a world which worships music and musicians, we Christians must beware of falling into the same trap. Without practising self-denial in this area, we will not grow in discipleship with Jesus Christ, but instead, we will learn from other masters. Jesus said, "if anyone desires to come after me, let him deny himself".
quote:
John Wesley pointed out that the self-denial means to deny oneself any pleasure that does not come from God, or lead to God.
I don't believe in the simple rules men have devised to categorise whether a particular style of music could be of God, but I am convinced that much of the church today has opted for man-pleasing and pleasure-loving in the service of Mammon.
If entertainers have become the prophets of the church today, then we should expect the highest standards of christian morality from them.
Does the fact that someone can play the guitar brilliantly or sing well mean that God wants to put him in a place of prominence in His church? I don't think the message of a true prophet of God is that God wants us to have more fun, to be more cool and things like that.
The true message is still "Repent, for the Kingdom of Heaven is at hand."
quote:
Anything can be used for evangelism, but God wants our hearts to be pure and right, and our expression to be an expression of the nature of Jesus Christ. Those devoted to heavy metal and hard rock have a look in their eyes totally unlike that of Jesus Christ. Why would a real Christian want to look like they do? We are told to "avoid the appearance of evil, " (1 Thessalonians 5:22) not to look as evil as we can to attract sinners to the Lord. Are we now wiser than God?
You keep jumping around trying to justify what you are saying and it really makes NO sense. Now they are evil bc of a "look in their eyes". ![[Roll Eyes]](rolleyes.gif) All of this is your opinion, which is fine but you re trying to use scripture to say its wrong. Its your opinion that Christian rock and roll is wrong. Its your opinion that Christian rap is wrong. If its glorifying God its not wrong.
No churches have turned people away and yes we do have to use different ways to reach people. We ve labeled this generation of kids and teenagers as Generation X. In other words, they have no hope, no meaning. We have to give them hope and meaning. And if it means writing a Christian rock or rap song to do it, then by all means do it. I d rather use that song to get em interesting in Jesus Christ and get em saved, than I had to not use it and them go to hell.
People relate, listen, make friends,trust, depend, etc etc on people who look like them. I have friend who is an outstanding Christian. He has hair half way down his back. The people of the church didnt want him driving the church van or teaching Sunday school bc of it.........at first. He can and has reached people that others cant. He looks like a guy who would drink and party but hes just the opposite. Hes made a whole lot of people re-think judging based on appearance.
You call rap noise, the Bible says make a joyful noise.
Its ok for you to not like it. It really is. But for you to tell someone that they cant use it to glorify God is just your opinion. And if you say God CANT use it, then you are underestimating the power of God.
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becauseHElives
Advanced Member
Member # 87
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posted
anything I say about rap music can be applied to rock music or jazz music
quote:
Since Rock and Roll was your culture, do you see something wrong with GOSPEL Christian rock?
quote:
"The wisdom which is from above is first pure, then peaceable, gentle, willing to yield, full of mercy and good fruits, without partiality and without hypocrisy. Now the fruit of righteousness is sown in peace by those who make peace." (James 3:17,18). To me, even the style of rock music communicates agitation, restlessness and distraction. Its proven to be the perfect medium to promote the spirit of rebellion against God. Is Christian rock pure? Is it peaceable? Is it gentle? It is only because we the church in the west have abandoned the wisdom of God that we find it necessary to use the method of rock music as a tool of evangelism. Like the Israelites who used some of the Canaanites as servants instead of slaying them, we too have been more tolerant than God, and more pragmatic than God also. This is one reason why the church today lacks convicting power and seems to need all kinds of gimmicks to avoid boring people. We want to fascinate, rather than confront. I'm telling you, when God is there in power, its highly relevant to your personal life, and it has nothing to do with the presence or absence of gimmicks. Paul experienced God in a horrible prison cell. He didn't even have a radio.
Yes I do as I said if any of you had taken the time to read what i posted...
quote:
Rock music has always been strongly hedonistic in nature, and doesn't transmit peace. How suitable is it as a medium for the "gospel of peace"? Yes, Rock Music can attract people to chuch meetings. But then again, so did the Emporer Constantine when he brought a flood of paganism into the church and gave birth to the Roman Catholic/Orthodox church power structure.
quote:
I do not believe that this rock and roll strategy with its accompanying attitude has been used anywhere where there has been a real revival of purity, holiness and humility. But if God does use it for such a thing, I would be delighted to be proven wrong on this issue.
quote:
A lot of the material put out by the CCM crowd is designed to appeal to pleasure-loving, carnal Christians. In the last days, the Bible warns, "men will be lovers of pleasure .. having a form of godliness (Christianity) but denying the power thereof" (2 Timothy 3:1-5). The true power of God comes through the cross. Not the cross as worn by pop icons such as Prince and Madonna, but the principal of (painful) death to the world and the flesh in order to sacrificially devote oneself to God and His pleasure. In a world which worships music and musicians, we Christians must beware of falling into the same trap. Without practising self-denial in this area, we will not grow in discipleship with Jesus Christ, but instead, we will learn from other masters. Jesus said, "if anyone desires to come after me, let him deny himself".
quote:
John Wesley pointed out that the self-denial means to deny oneself any pleasure that does not come from God, or lead to God.
I don't believe in the simple rules men have devised to categorise whether a particular style of music could be of God, but I am convinced that much of the church today has opted for man-pleasing and pleasure-loving in the service of Mammon.
If entertainers have become the prophets of the church today, then we should expect the highest standards of christian morality from them.
Does the fact that someone can play the guitar brilliantly or sing well mean that God wants to put him in a place of prominence in His church? I don't think the message of a true prophet of God is that God wants us to have more fun, to be more cool and things like that.
The true message is still "Repent, for the Kingdom of Heaven is at hand."
quote:
Anything can be used for evangelism, but God wants our hearts to be pure and right, and our expression to be an expression of the nature of Jesus Christ. Those devoted to heavy metal and hard rock have a look in their eyes totally unlike that of Jesus Christ. Why would a real Christian want to look like they do? We are told to "avoid the appearance of evil, " (1 Thessalonians 5:22) not to look as evil as we can to attract sinners to the Lord. Are we now wiser than God?
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Strive to enter in at the strait gate:for many, I say unto you will seek to enter in, and shall not be able. ( Luke 13:24 )
Posts: 4578 | From: Southeast Texas | Registered: Jun 2002
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Jazzee
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posted
Because he lives, you use the example of sex drugs and rock'n'roll.
We all know that all things are created by God. Especially our ability as human beings to create, be it art, literature, science or music. This is a good thing that the Lord has given us. He made us this way, so I am sure He loves creativity and since He made us all so diverse I am sure He loves diversity too. He also created sex ![[happyhappy]](graemlins/happyhappy.gif) . The fact that there is pornography and promiscuity and even worse things does NOT make sex a wrong thing. It is still an incredibly wonderful thing that God created for us to enjoy within our marriage. Music is the same. God created music, He loves all music as long as it is coming from a sincere heart. God does not have a taste for only European music from 1700 something or slow countrygospel etc. His taste is WAY more diverse than yours. Trust me. The reason why. He created ALL of us in his image. We are all a reflexion of Him. He is THAT diverse and then some....
We cannot put Him in a little square box and say "See this is God, this is how and who He is" God doesn't fit in little religious manmade boxes.
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all things are possible for she who believes in the Lord
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Jazzee
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posted
"On the basis that rebellion is against the very nature of Yahweh, ask yourself were did “rock and roll” “rap’ and some other forms of music get their beginnings.
originally posted by Because he lives".
It is my impression that the Bible is talking about rebellion against God.
Sometimes we as humans have to rebel if something is not right, meaning rebellion against evil is a good thing. It is very easy to call the battles we agree on "good fights" or "righteous wars" etc and when we don't agree in it we call it rebellion.
Rock'n'roll did not start as a teenage rebellion music by Elvis. It is an african american music. ( and I take it every attempt by the african american to seek justice was rebellion?). The first time the word Rock'n'roll was used was at a concert with Fats Domino where DJ Alan Freed commented looking at all the happy youngsters enjoying the music " look at all these people rockin' and rollin'!". Well since Because He lives doesn't like music and probably not dancing either one can call that rebellion. But before we categorize all modern music as rebellion music maybe we should think about WHO categorized it rebellion and WHEN. It was different times. Back then a black man sitting in front of the bus was rebellion.
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all things are possible for she who believes in the Lord
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shadowmaker
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posted
quote:
Originally posted by Itty-Bitty Girl:
quote:
Originally posted by becauseHElives:
Rock and Roll was my culture, but when I put away foolish things to follow Yeshua, it had to go.
I take it your black by your reference to Rap music being part of your culture.
Yeah. I'm black, and I stopped listening to the foolish, negative and evil side of rap.
But now I don't see anything wrong with GOSPEL Christian rap; it glories God.
Since Rock and Roll was your culture, do you see something wrong with GOSPEL Christian rock?
Yes she does. She hasnt said what music she listens to, but rock and rap are satanic regardless if its Christian or not. According to her. I ask about Psalms 150 and got no response.
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Itty-Bitty Girl
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posted
quote:
Originally posted by becauseHElives:
Rock and Roll was my culture, but when I put away foolish things to follow Yeshua, it had to go.
I take it your black by your reference to Rap music being part of your culture.
Yeah. I'm black, and I stopped listening to the foolish, negative and evil side of rap.
But now I don't see anything wrong with GOSPEL Christian rap; it glories God.
Since Rock and Roll was your culture, do you see something wrong with GOSPEL Christian rock?
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Itty-Bitty Girl
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posted
quote:
Originally posted by becauseHElives:
I take it your black by your reference to Rap music being part of your culture.
I have nothing against blacks, and there is some beautiful heart felt gospel music from many Black Christians.
The Brooklyn Tabernacle Choir is a wonderful example of heart felt music.
Ooooooo. I LOVE the Brooklyn tabernacle choir! I like the song called, "my help cometh from the lord". I loved it since it was sung at my auntie's funeral.
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becauseHElives
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posted
Rose, culture has no place in the gospel, mine or yours.
Rom 10:12
For there is no difference between the Jew and the Greek: for the same Lord over all is rich unto all that call upon him.
Gal 3:28
There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither bond nor free, there is neither male nor female: for ye are all one in Christ Jesus.
What’s wrong now in the body of Christ is individualism!
If you or I or anyone else is saved, we are commanded to die to what we were before Yeshua came to abide in us..
There is nothing, of value in you or I that Yahweh wants or needs.
The purpose of Yeshua’s death and resurrection is that those that would follow would be, could be, will be conformed to Yeshua’s image.
Rock and Roll was my culture, but when I put away foolish things to follow Yeshua, it had to go.
I take it your black by your reference to Rap music being part of your culture.
I have nothing against blacks, and there is some beautiful heart felt gospel music from many Black Christians.
The Brooklyn Tabernacle Choir is a wonderful example of heart felt music.
but
Rap is not music, it is noise, it is individualism at its worst.
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Strive to enter in at the strait gate:for many, I say unto you will seek to enter in, and shall not be able. ( Luke 13:24 )
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Itty-Bitty Girl
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posted
quote:
Originally posted by becauseHElives:
Rap Music, how sad Itty-Bitty Girl, I thought you were a defender of Truth, but it seems you are just another defender of the Apostate Church siding with using the fleshly elements of the world to draw people to the church system instead of …
The message of Yeshua, the way of the cross, death to self and the ways of the flesh.
How can you talk so bad about something that you appear to know nothing about? Rap is my culture. I don't listen to the fleshy things, I keeps it gospel.
I can spread the message of Yahweh through gospel rap, I am sure that He would not mind, even though you might.
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Itty-Bitty Girl
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posted
quote:
Originally posted by becauseHElives:
"Rap Music" is a contradiction of terms; it is not even music, its noise, confusion.
Ay, I find that very offensive. How can you put all rap all in one catagory? Rap is music to me. It may just be noise to you, but it more than that to me.
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becauseHElives
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Joyce Meyer's perverted gospel is closer to the Truth than "Rap Music".
Joel Osteen's smiley deceptive user friendly gospel is Christ center in comparison to "Rap Music".
Bennie Hinn is the greatest preacher of the gospel ever known, even the Apostle Paul if "Rap Music" is Christian.
"Rap Music" is a contradiction of terms; it is not even music, its noise, confusion.
Rap Music, how sad Itty-Bitty Girl, I thought you were a defender of Truth, but it seems you are just another defender of the Apostate Church siding with using the fleshly elements of the world to draw people to the church system instead of …
The message of Yeshua, the way of the cross, death to self and the ways of the flesh.
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Strive to enter in at the strait gate:for many, I say unto you will seek to enter in, and shall not be able. ( Luke 13:24 )
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Itty-Bitty Girl
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Ay... I liked that song on that site. That song was raw, mad props to ludamizleeto. That was mad nice!
Anyway... I don't think that some gospel rap music is bad. I love some gospel rap: some is the key word. There is gospel rap is out there circulating that is not really gospel at all.
And I also believe that some rap music is of the devil. Take a look at "three 6 mafia", I used to think that they were Christians until I heard them praising lucifer in a song.
And while other rappers don't outwardly praise lucifer like the "TRIPLE SIX MAFIA", rappers inwardly praise him by teaching the listeners that money is everything. Rappers such as "Jay-z", "50 Cent", "Lloyd Banks", "Lil Wayne", "Nelly", "Paul Wall" show off money or ice or grills and other and luxuries, causing people to waste their money trying to buy such material things.
And then there are rappers who rap about selling drugs and or killng people. I remember when I loved to listen to songs by "Beanie Sigel", "Jadakiss", "Styles P", "Sheek Louch", etc. At 13-years-old, Beanie Sigel told me how to cook crack, Jadakiss told me how to hawk folks in their backs, Styles told me how to shoot folks down. I liked the lyrics where they talked about how to kill, when to kill, and other evil things, because that was the only rap that I knew.
But as I got older, I began to discover other sides of rap music, not just the grim negativity. I began to like rappers such as "Common Sense", "Kanye West", and "Talib Kweli". I love the messages of some of their songs, the lyrics are witty, the lyrics are hard and the beats be hot.
I do believe that God can use rap music for Himself, I'm sure there are plenty of rappers out there who give God the glory in their rhymes.
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freddy05
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Becausehelives:
I find the scientific study of music you present as very interesting. However, I still don´t see how that means God can´t use rap.
As far as Christian Rock being bad because rock was born out of rebellion. I just don´t make that huge jump. The motives of musicians are different, some good, some bad. Because the motives of some were bad, doesn´t make it all bad.
God is big enough to use what he wants.
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Eden
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Hi, Ludamisleeto, I listened to the link and here is my critique/advice.
I was only able to understand maybe the last one or two words of each sentence, while the first 80% of each sentence was unintelligible.
To put it another way, if you had not told me that it was a Christian rap (with the intent of saving someone), I would have NEVER been able to tell from your rap song that it was a CHRISTIAN rap song.
For example, I heard the "devil" at the end of one of your lines, but hey, many non-Christians would use that word "devil" in their songs too.
My advice for what it's worth: Pronounce all the words clearly from the first word to the last word of each rhyming sentence so that your hearers can understand the message. The way it cam through my speakers now only the last few words of each line were intelligible, which was not enough for the hearer to be able to figure out that this was a saving or Christian message.
Let him who has ears to hear, let him hear.
Be blessed.
Eden
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becauseHElives
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On the basis that rebellion is against the very nature of Yahweh, ask yourself were did “rock and roll” “rap’ and some other forms of music get their beginnings.
What do the Scriptures teach about rebellion?
Galatians 5: 19-21
Now the works of the flesh are manifest, which are [these]; Adultery, fornication, uncleanness, lasciviousness, Idolatry, witchcraft, hatred, variance, emulations, wrath, strife, seditions, heresies, Envyings, murders, drunkenness, revellings, and such like: of the which I tell you before, as I have also told [you] in time past, that they which do such things shall not inherit the kingdom of God.
1 Samuel 15:23
For rebellion [is as] the sin of witchcraft, and stubbornness [is as] iniquity and idolatry. Because thou hast rejected the word of the LORD, he hath also rejected thee from [being] king.
Matthew 24:12
"And because iniquity shall abound, the love of many shall wax cold."
because iniquity, rebellion, lawlessness….
Luke 13:27 But he shall say, I tell you, I know you not whence ye are; depart from me, all ye workers of iniquity (workers of rebellion) ( workers of lawlessness)
Lawlessness is the characteristic trait of the rebellious heart. Lawlessness does not result from a lack of law, but from rebellion to it. Jesus said that in the times before he comes back, rebellion to all law will abound. "Abound" translates a word which means to be multiplied greatly. Since he said that the love of many would wax cold "because" of this multiplied rebellion to the law, he established the fact of a causal relationship between the rebellion and the diminishing of love.
There is a law for music just as there is a law for gravity and everything else Yahweh created….
SOUND AND MUSIC
Sound is the impression produced on the ear by the vibrations of air. The pitch of the musical note is higher or lower according as these vibrations are faster or slower. When they are too slow, or not sufficiently regular and continuous to make a musical sound, we call it noise.
Experiments have long been completed which fix the number of vibrations for each musical note; by which, of course, we may easily calculate the difference between the number of vibrations between each note.
These were finally settled at Stuttgart in 1834. They were adopted by the Paris Conservatoire in 1859, but it was not till 1869 that they were adopted in England by the Society of Arts. The following is the scale of Do showing the number of vibrations in a second under each note and the differences between them:—
C
Do D
Re E
Mi F
Fa G
Sol A
La B
Si C
Do
264
(24x11) (33) 297
(27x11) (33) 330
(30x11) (22) 352
(32x11) (44) 396
(36x11) (44) 440
(40x11) (55) 495
(45x11) (33) 528
(48x11)
In the upper row of figures, those immediately under each note are the number of vibrations producing such note. The figures in brackets, between these numbers, show the difference between these vibrations. The figures in the lower line are merely the factors of the respective numbers.
On examining the above it will be at once seen that the number eleven is stamped upon music; and we may say seven also, for there are seven notes of the scale (the eighth being the repetition of the first).
The number of vibrations in a second, for each note, is a multiple of eleven, and the difference in the number of vibrations between each note is also a multiple of eleven. These differences are not always the same. We speak of tones and semitones, as though all tones were alike, and all semitones were alike; but this is not the case. The difference between the semitone Mi and Fa* is 22; while between the other semitone, Si and Do, it is 33. So with the tones: the difference between the tone Do and Re, for example, is 33; while between Fa and Sol it is 44; between Sol and La it is 44; and between La and Si it is 55.
* In using this notation it is worth recording and remembering, in passing (though it is hardly relevant to our subject), the origin of what is now called Solfeggio. It arose from a Mediaeval hymn to John the Baptist which had this peculiarity that the first six lines of the music commenced respectively on the first six successive notes of the scale, and thus the first syllable of each line was sung to a note one degree higher than the first syllable of the line that preceded it:—
Ut queant laxis
Re-sonare fibris
Mi-ra gestorum
Fa-muli tuorum
Sol-ve polluti
La-bii reatum
Sancto Iohannes
By degrees these syllables became associated and identified with their respective notes, and as each syllable ended with a vowel they were found to be peculiarly adapted for vocal use. Hence Ut was artificially replaced by "Do." Guido of Arezzo was the first to adopt them in the 11th century, and Le Maire, a French musician of the 17th century, added "Si" for the seventh note of the scale, in order to complete the series. It might have been formed from the initial letters of the two words in this line, S and I.
The ear can detect and convey these vibrations to the brain only within certain limits. Each ear has within it a minute organ, like a little harp, with about ten thousand strings. These organs were discovered by an Italian named Corti, and hence have been named "the organs of Corti." When a sound is made, the corresponding string of this little harp vibrates in sympathy, and conveys the impression to the brain. The immense number of these little strings provides for the conveyance of every conceivable sound within certain limits. In the scale, as we have seen, there is a range of 264 vibrations. There is a difference between each one, so that there are practically 264 notes in the scale, but the ear cannot detect them. The ear of a skilled violinist can detect many more than an ordinary untrained ear. The mechanical action of a pianoforte can record only twelve of these notes. The violin can be made to produce a much larger number, and is therefore more perfect as an instrument, but not equal in this respect to the human voice. The wonderful mechanism of the human voice, being created by God, far excels every instrument that man can make.
There are vibrations which the ear cannot detect, so slow as to make no audible sound, but there are contrivances by which they can be made visible to the eye. When sand is thrown upon a thin metal disc, to which a chord is attached and caused to vibrate, the sand will immediately arrange itself in a perfect geometrical pattern. The pattern will vary with the number of the vibrations. These are called "Chladni's figures." Moist plaster on glass or moist water-colour on rigid surfaces will vibrate at the sound, say, of the human voice, or of a cornet, and will assume forms of various kinds—geometrical, vegetable and floral; some resembling ferns, others resembling leaves and shells, according to the pitch of the note.
The "Pendulograph" is another contrivance for rendering these vibrations visible to the eye; and for exhibiting depths of sound which are totally inaudible to the ear. The pen is attached to one pendulum and the paper to the other, and these are made to oscillate at right angles with each other. When each pendulum is set at the same length (making the same number of vibrations in the same time), the figure made by the pen will be a perfect circle. But when these lengths (or vibrations) vary, the patterns that are described are as exquisite as they are marvelous, and almost infinite in their variety and design.
Even the organs of Corti are limited in their perception, notwithstanding the many thousands of minute vibrating chords. When these organs are perfect or well formed there is what is called "an ear for music." But in many cases there is "no ear for music." This means that these organs are defective, not fully developed, or malformed, in the case of such persons; and that the sounds are not accurately conveyed to the brain.
There is a solemn and important truth therefore in the words, "He that planted the ear"! (Psa 94:9). What wondrous planting!
Not every one has this peculiar (musical) "ear." And no one has by nature that ear which can distinguish the things of God. The spiritual ear is the direct gift and planting of God. Hence it is written, "He that hath an ear," i.e., only he that hath that divinely-planted, God-given ear can hear the things of the Spirit of God. "An ear to hear" those spiritual things is a far greater reality, and an infinitely greater gift, than an ear for music! Oh wondrous ear! It is the Lord that gives "the hearing ear" (Prov 20:12). He wakeneth the ear to hear (Isa 50:4); It is the Lord that openeth the ear (Isa 50:5). The natural ear does not hear spiritual sounds; it cannot discern them (Isa 64:4 and 1 Cor 2:9). Thus nature and grace illustrate each other, and reveal the great fact that there is a secret ear, more delicate than any "organs of Corti," that can detect sounds invisible as well as inaudible to the senses, and which enables those who possess it to say:—
"Sweeter sounds than music knows
Charm me in Emanuel's name;
All her hopes my spirit owes
To His birth, and cross, and shame."
http://philologos.org/__eb-nis/chap01.htm#15
Rap Music Is Not Music
Describing the (disenchanting) chanting of “Rap Music” as singing or as music is indeed (in either case) a capital misnomer. Real Music is the careful arrangement of organized sounds in the form of notes that then result in a smooth blend of rhythm, tone, and pitch that when united, is quite pleasing to the ear. Rap is not music. The unpleasant-sounding horror is chaotic dissonance and certainly not elegant consonance. Rap is veritable noise pollution that is tastelessly amplified from a cumbersome boom box.
Rock and rebellion
From its beginnings, rock and roll has been associated with youth, rebellion, and anti-establishment. The blend of black influences, suggestive lyrics, and wild response by the younger set made rock and roll appalling and threatening to the older generation. The ability to shock the elders in turn became part of the appeal of the music to young generations. Attempts to control the influence of rock often turned comical; after several previous television appearances became controversial, Elvis Presley was famously shown from the waist up (to avoid offending viewers with his suggestive hip swivels) on the Ed Sullivan Show in 1956. Hollywood was quick to capitalize on the trend, turning out a series of rock-and-roll themed exploitation films designed to thrill teenagers and horrify adults.
As the original generations of rock and roll fans matured, the music became an accepted and deeply interwoven thread in popular culture. Beginning in the early 1970s, rock songs and acts began to be used in a few television commercials; within a decade this practice became widespread. Starting in the 1980s rock music was often featured in film and television program soundtracks.
While mainstream rock music was no longer able to shock or offend, new forms of music, particularly punk rock in the late-1970s and rap and hip-hop in the late-1980s, emerged to fill this role; people who as youths delighted in the effect rock and roll had on their parents found themselves railing in a similar fashion against their children's music.
Sex, Drugs, and Rock and Roll
The rock lifestyle has always been popularly known as being associated with sex and drugs. Many of rock and roll's early stars (as well as their jazz and blues counterparts) were known as hard-drinking, hard-living characters; during the 1960s a decadent rock lifestyle became more publicly known, aided by the growth of the underground rock press which documented such excesses, often in exploitative fashion. Musicians had always attracted attention from the opposite sex; Groupies, girls who followed, spent time with and often did sexual favors for band members, appeared in the 1960's. While some groups (notably most of the Beatles) eschewed such attention in favor of long-term relationships, other groups and artists did little to discourage it, and many tales (both true and exaggerated) of sexual escapades became part of rock music legacy during the heyday of the rock era.
Drugs were often a huge part of the rock music lifestyle. In the 1960s psychedelic music arose; some musicians encouraged and intended listeners of psychedelic music to be under the influence of LSD or other hallucinogenic drugs as enhancements to the listening experience. Jerry Garcia of the rock band Grateful Dead said "For some people, taking LSD and going to Grateful Dead show functions like a rite of passage.... we don't have a product to sell; but we do have a mechanism that works."
The popularity and promotion of experimentation with drugs by musicians may have influenced use of drugs and the perception of acceptability of drug use among the youth of the period. When the Beatles, once marketed as clean-cut youths, started publicly acknowledging using Cannabis, many fans followed. Journalist Al Aronowitz wrote "...whatever the Beatles did was acceptable, especially for young people. Pretty soon everybody was smoking it, and it seemed to be all right." The relationship of rock music to the hippie and counterculture movements, which espoused use of marijuana and other drugs, is complex and intertwined, and it is not always clear in which direction influence flowed. What is clear is that by the end of the 1960s drugs and rock music were part of a common youth scene and that both some rock musicians and some rock fans were experimenting with many types of drugs.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Social_effects_of_rock_and_roll#Sex.2C_Drugs.2C_and_Rock_and_Roll
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Strive to enter in at the strait gate:for many, I say unto you will seek to enter in, and shall not be able. ( Luke 13:24 )
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shadowmaker
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quote:
Originally posted by becauseHElives:
shadowmaker,
It's hard enough to debate with people that use the Scriptures as the only source of Truth, but to debate with someone like you that doesn't use the scripture to form all doctrine it is impossible
No you re being closed minded plain and simple. You give absolute no scripture to say the I cant listen to rap music. NONE. People like me? Why bc I refuse to accept the answer "its wrong bc its in the Bible". And yet its never shown. You dog gone right you cant debate with me, bc I wont accept the answer "bc the Bible says so." I refuse to accept legalist rules.
The question was can God use it? And you just say "its satanic and cant be used. God cant use it." ENd of discussion. You re basing your opinion on a select few rappers or rock stars and sterotyping it all together. Again, for the record, I dont like rap music. But God can use it.
And I did provide scripture, I ask you about Psalms 150.
[1] Praise ye the LORD. Praise God in his sanctuary: praise him in the firmament of his power.
[2] Praise him for his mighty acts: praise him according to his excellent greatness.
[3] Praise him with the sound of the trumpet: praise him with the psaltery and harp.
[4] Praise him with the timbrel and dance: praise him with stringed instruments and organs.
[5] Praise him upon the loud cymbals: praise him upon the high sounding cymbals.
[6] Let every thing that hath breath praise the LORD. Praise ye the LORD.
And why is it, just bc I disagree with you, I dont know the Bible?
Most kids, especially teenagers wont come to church bc its boring, they have to dress up, cant wear jeans, etc etc and alot of the music is simply outdated. There are some old hymns that I absolutely cant stand to hear or sing. If you cant sing something and enjoy it, how can you praise God? Yeah they ll be some songs you like and dislike but if all the music isnt to your liking and you dont enjoy it, then you re not praising God.
If a Christian teenager is trying to get some of their friends to come to church and they listen to rap music, what better tool to use than Christian rap? No the music isnt going to save them. But it can do something, it can get them to church. Maybe they come just that one time but its a chance for someone to witness to them. Its a chance for them to hear the gospel. It s a chance to plant that seed.
And yes I do realize the devil does use music to deceive and get people on the wrong path. So why cant God use it to get them on the right path?
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becauseHElives
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posted
shadowmaker,
It's hard enough to debate with people that use the Scriptures as the only source of Truth, but to debate with someone like you that doesn't use the scripture to form all doctrine it is impossible
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Strive to enter in at the strait gate:for many, I say unto you will seek to enter in, and shall not be able. ( Luke 13:24 )
Posts: 4578 | From: Southeast Texas | Registered: Jun 2002
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shadowmaker
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posted
quote:
Originally posted by becauseHElives:
quote:
shadowmaker
Sorry but you can not convince me GOD can’t take a rap song and use it. And I don’t like rap.
No, you are not convinced that "The Bible" is the absolute Word of Yahweh to mankind.
You are not convinced there are moral absolutes the child of Yahweh must live by everyday.
Humanism posing as Christianity is a sickening sight leading many to the pit of Hell.
To go one step father, music does not even have a place in bringing people to Yeshua, it is the foolishness of preaching alone that`saves….
. 1 Corinthians 1:21-25
21. For after that in the wisdom of God the world by wisdom knew not God, it pleased God by the foolishness of preaching to save them that believe.
22. For the Jews require a sign, and the Greeks seek after wisdom:
23. But we preach Christ crucified, unto the Jews a stumbling block, and unto the Greeks foolishness;
24. But unto them which are called, both Jews and Greeks, Christ the power of God, and the wisdom of God.
25. Because the foolishness of God is wiser than men; and the weakness of God is stronger than men.
Oh so now I m not a Christian and dont know the Bible. You dont know me, know nothing about me at all, and yet you judge me and say I dont know the Bible. Ok whatever.
![[roll on floor]](graemlins/6.gif)
AND no its the blood of Jesus Christ alone that saves. I never said music saved anybody.
Its you who isnt convinced. Youre telling me, that God cant take a rap song and use it? So you re saying God has limits on what he can and cant do. You re telling me that a person cant do a rap song in the name of Jesus. You automatically are against bc its a rap song. And thats hog wash. Show me the versus that says, I cant listen to rap music, country music, rock and roll. What about Psalms 150 ?
So, bc certain rock stars said something satanic, we are suppose to condemn ALL rock music. Do we condemn all preachers bc of the few who are false prophets?
The people of the church are keeping people from being saved and coming to know Jesus. All their silly man made rules and beliefs to justify things they like and dislike... You know what, I m not even going to get on my soap box.
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Marcopolio
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Im just going to throw around something here.. but how could RAP be bad? I mean after all, its just another kind of music. If I were to tell you that the accordian was the instrument of the devil.. How rediculous would that sound? I think that it is important to realize that there are several different generes of music that could be called RAP by people who dont know better.. There is GANGSTA RAP which is what you more than likely think most rap is if your so opposed to it.. Then there is Hip-hop. Which can be as varied as rock music for content. Some hip-hop is just about hanging out with your friends etc.. some is about getting high and drinking, but you dont have to look hard to find those themes in COUNTRY MUSIC.. so think before you judge it..
I would be suspect of people thinking that rap was some how evil as being racists. IT also means that you have only had the shallowest experience with Rap/Hip-hop and are jumping to conclusions about its content.
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KnowHim
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It’s not about the music, it is about knowing and serving Jesus Christ. If you know Him you will love Him and do what he asks you to do. As long as you know Him and not just know about Him you will listen to His voice and you will know what you should do.
It does not matter if other people like it or not. If the Lord Jesus is leading you to do it, DO IT. If not find out what He has created you for and do it.
Just remember that what ever you do should be to the glory of God and not to the glory of man.
“He must increase, but I must decrease.” - John 3:30
The man who uttered these words was John the Baptist. Jesus said that John was the greatest prophet – greater than Moses, greater than Elijah – even though John did no miracles. So what made John the Baptist the greatest prophet? It was his insight into the person of Jesus Christ as the fulfillment of God's eternal purpose: and this is why he said, “He must increase, but I must decrease”. – Chip Brogden
It we don’t apply this to our walk with the Lord Jesus we have not truly come to know Him yet.
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becauseHElives
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quote:
shadowmaker
Sorry but you can not convince me GOD can’t take a rap song and use it. And I don’t like rap.
No, you are not convinced that "The Bible" is the absolute Word of Yahweh to mankind.
You are not convinced there are moral absolutes the child of Yahweh must live by everyday.
Humanism posing as Christianity is a sickening sight leading many to the pit of Hell.
To go one step father, music does not even have a place in bringing people to Yeshua, it is the foolishness of preaching alone that`saves….
. 1 Corinthians 1:21-25
21. For after that in the wisdom of God the world by wisdom knew not God, it pleased God by the foolishness of preaching to save them that believe.
22. For the Jews require a sign, and the Greeks seek after wisdom:
23. But we preach Christ crucified, unto the Jews a stumbling block, and unto the Greeks foolishness;
24. But unto them which are called, both Jews and Greeks, Christ the power of God, and the wisdom of God.
25. Because the foolishness of God is wiser than men; and the weakness of God is stronger than men.
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Strive to enter in at the strait gate:for many, I say unto you will seek to enter in, and shall not be able. ( Luke 13:24 )
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shadowmaker
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I grew up listening to heavy metal, Kiss, ac/dc, ozzy, etc etc. So what you re telling me is bc I listen to a song I m going to hell? When I was drinking and paryting it wasnt bc of the music. The music had nothing to do with it. The music didnt make me do things. I listened to it bc i liked it. Like someone said, 40 yrs later and its the same arguement.
My point about losing a generation, is we have to reach these kids. Churches have turned people from Christ with all of their legalist rules. Tattoos are wrong but yet I ve seen no scripture to support this. YES I know about the Lev one and thats another discussion. So we tell the kids no tattoos. Ear rings are wrong, dressing a certain way is wrong. Their music is wrong. Alot of kids are going to hell bc some people wont change their approach on how to reach em. I bet you could led more kids who listen to rap to Christ with Christian rap music, than you can by playing Amazing Grace. So taking a test or pointing out some groups use this lyric is hogwash, plain and simple.
Some of the old hymns, they may have beautiful words that praise God to the highest. But when you sing them they sound like someone is strangling a cat. And trying to reach someone like that simply isnt going to work with everybody. Reason being is bc everyone is different.
Sorry but you can not convince me GOD cant take a rap song and use it. And I dont like rap.
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Marcopolio
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Amen Freddy... Kind of what I wanted to say only an much fewer words ![[Smile]](smile.gif)
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freddy05
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I am surprised that the year is 2006 and there is still a debate on this. Though I do believe that even within the fundimentalist church, there are only a relative few left who believe strongly against certain music styles.
Yet this small minority of irrational, head in the sand, refuse to move forward in history crowd, has a loud enough voice to turn masses away from the kingdom.
I believe the anti-rap, anti-rock crowd has turned more away from the cross than Christian music has brought to the cross. Just my hunch, but I think its pretty sad.
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Marcopolio
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YES GOD CAN AND SHOULD USE RAP MUSIC.. BUT PLEASE MAKE IT GOOD!! Also, let me explain a little bit about my musical background and Christianity. You have to realize that there is good music, and there is Christian music. And for a long time, they have been mutually exclusive. Please dont take this the wrong way. I like to sing in church, and songs that sing praise to the lord are WONDERFUL. They can be MUSIC. But, where I am coming from is having had Bible school tell me all kinds of things about music that were just not true.
At church camp I was told that the beatles had subliminal backward masking in their Love potion #9 song, that said "Smoke Marijuana" repeatedly. I wanted to hear it.. they played it backward for us.. and an amazing thing happened.. lots of kids heard it.. I didnt. I listend and listened the best I could hear was some rythmic garbage that you could have said was anything. which made me question why, if the beatles were outwardly expressing their views on drugs, why would they try to be subversive about it?? This turned me into an instant skeptic on the issue of music and faith. I decided at the age of 10, that I would still listen to the beatles, and just because they did drugs didnt mean I had to.
Now on to Christian music.. A good friend of mine growing up with me in the church was a skateboarder, and was way into listeing to DEATH METAL... Now I wont pretend I share his taste in music, but the youth group leaders were all on him about listening to CHRISTIAN music instead. They even went through the trouble of finding some CHRISTIAN, DEATH METAL for him to listen to.. yes.. its out there..
I was given some CDs to listen to that were "GOOD" Christian groups.. and I have to say.. they were terrible. DC talk? more like DC **** . Now if you just want to sing praise to the lord, thats fine.. but for someone who enjoys music for the sake of listening to music there is a difference. I found the PIXIES. I loved the Pixies and I felt conflicted for a long time about liking the music I liked because it was secular. What I later came to realize, is that If I listen to music that is secular and it makes me happy, that is just fine. I get out of it what I put into it. You can listen to secular music, and it can be beautiful, and awe inspiring, and never mention God at all, but you can listen and think, yes, God is great that he could create such a wonderful world of music and sound for us to enjoy.
The reason for the rant, is to explain how put off I was for such a long time by people trying to press Christian music on me as a kid. I dont care if they do praise God, the music can still be awefull, and that is a turn off to people.
If I get in the car with someone and they are playing music that is **** .. and loving it.. My opinion of them immediately drops. I hate to be a self professed music snob, but thats how it is. So if you bring somoene a cd and tell them to listen to it and they arent a christian, if its not REALLY GOOD music, it will have the opposite effect. It will tell people that you have bad taste, and why would you want to follow somoene with bad taste?
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becauseHElives
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Member # 87
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quote:
shadowmaker,
But we re losing a generation and one of the reason is we "dont like the music". ??
No, you are wrong….
There is only one reason we are losing a generation, and that is because of the apostasy that is continually spreading like a cancer in the Body of Christ.
You might just as well ask “can Yahweh use rebellion to spread the Gospel”?
Does anybody understand what rebellion is?
The scripture state plainly that rebellion is as the sin of witch craft….
Rock and Roll music and Rap music both are born out of pure rebellion, if anyone can’t see that they are spiritually dead.
Christianity has nothing to do with a person’s culture or preference.
Christians are of another Kingdom, and the only thing they should be identified with is Christ / Yeshua,
Take a test of your understanding of music….
http://www.av1611.org/crktstin.html
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Strive to enter in at the strait gate:for many, I say unto you will seek to enter in, and shall not be able. ( Luke 13:24 )
Posts: 4578 | From: Southeast Texas | Registered: Jun 2002
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SoftTouch
Advanced Member
Member # 2316
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posted
I am not opposed to Christian Music set to different styles at all. So long as the words Glorify Christ and preach HIS Gospel then the message gets out to some who may not hear it any other way. I do have a problem when people tend to worship the Band instead of the Lord they sing about, but that is an issue in each individuals hearts that he or she must deal with with the Lord.
I do agree that certain styles of Dancing are Very Inappropriate if they include sensual movements... WRONG MESSAGE and in my opinion Not Christian At All.
I have heard Christian Rap, and although I don't like Rap Music, what I've heard was outstanding! I can't remember the artists name, but my son got a CD from a friend and I listend to the whole thing to test the message... it was the Gospel Plain and Simple!
God can use Anything HE choses to use, including talking through an *** (donky) ![[Wink]](wink.gif)
I do not believe that Music in and of its self is either evil or good.... it's the Message in the words that is whats important. Although I Refuse to listen to screaming guitars with heavy metal sounds... that to me is an offensive sound. I also don't like any artist who Screams the words because you can't hear them... if you can't hear the words, what good can they do?
However, I don't believe that Christian Rock or Rap belong in a Worship Service (Chruch Service). I have nothing against upbeat songs of Praise (the Lord said to make a JOYFUL Noise ) but I believe the other styles are best left to listening during other times (in the car, at home, at a concert - if you like that format, which I don't).
That's my $.02
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Psalm 119:104Through thy precepts I get understanding: therefore I hate every false way. 105Thy word is a lamp unto my feet, and a light unto my path.
Posts: 3465 | Registered: Nov 2003
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shadowmaker
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Member # 3696
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posted
quote:
Originally posted by becauseHElives:
Rap music is Satanic!
Because you dont like it? I dont like it either. But we re losing a generation and one of the reason is we "dont like the music". ?? So we re suppose to only listen to old gospel hymns? I understand what you are saying and some people will use music to make money and be phoneys, just like false phophets. But to say one type of music is satanic is wrong. I can write a gospel song but make it satanic if thats my wish. Can you go witness to a kids who like rap music and play country music? No, so you have to use what they like. Its like a dress code. Do you tell todays youth they cant wear jeans and tshirts to church? If you do the majority wont come.
My point is the question was can God use rap music and the answer is yes. You cant have a closed mind. Can you take a rap song by snoop dog and play it in church? Well of course not. But if a rap song is prasing God, of course you can.
Posts: 272 | Registered: Jul 2004
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TEXASGRANDMA
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Member # 847
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posted
I am not into rap music. I also have problems with Christian music that does not even mention God. I heard a song the other day that could have been played on a rock station as a love song to a girl, because there was no mention of God at all in the song.
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Luk 21:28 And when these things begin to come to pass, then look up, and lift up your heads; for your redemption draweth nigh.
http://www.indieheaven.com/artists/mm (son-in-law)http://www.myspace.com/mireles
Posts: 4985 | From: Washington State | Registered: Jan 2003
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becauseHElives
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Member # 87
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posted
Rap music is Satanic!
"The disciple is not above His Lord. If we want the joy of Christ, we must do what Christ did. For Him, satisfaction was not the result of finding some Christian pleasure to compete with the world's pleasure. It was not a question of being entertained by church performances instead of secular performances. Christ does not compete by promising a religious equivalent of what the world offers, pleasure for pleasure. It is completely different. The pleasure of Christ is the will of God and its enactment. No dance, no concert, no sensational move can compete with winning a soul for Christ".
Communications experts tell us that the words of something comprise about 7% of the total communication content. Even more is communicated via the tone of voice and via the Body Language. Musical performers communicates an attitude as well as a spirit. It is not just what is said, but the way it is said that is important. Often it is an attitude of worldly pride, or rebellion that is communicated. Some of the dancing in church these days would be fit for broadcast on MTV. And young people love that, when they are in the flesh. Doesn't matter whethere they are Christians or not. Sex sells.
Sometimes the message of the way something is being said communicates more than the words. It is possible to say, "Glory to Jesus" with your mouth, while your whole demeanour is saying, "Aren't I awesome?!". I have seen two kinds of brilliant guitarists in the church. One is humble and not trying to attract attention to himself. The other kind is just posing. Everything is done for effect.
Some music ministry, even worship ministry today claims to have Almighty God as the chief object of worship, yet the real admiration is going to the musicians. You can go to Christian concerts where it really looks like the people are worshipping the band! But this hardly seems to be a concern today. Its being done in the name of Jesus, after all, so it must be OK, right?
In the book of Acts Paul and Barnabas spoke a word and a crippled man walked. This happened in a city called Lystra. The people thought they were gods and started to worship them. Paul did not take this in his stride. He did not smile smugly, thinking how wonderful and godlike he really was. No, he and Barnabas tore their clothes in dismay and ended up getting stoned. Acts 14:14
What would happen if a modern rock band upon seeing the adulation of the crowd began to tear their clothes, broken-hearted that perhaps some soul was attributing to them what belonged to God alone? Can you imagine that happening? Perhaps an even greater frenzy would erupt in the crowd, especially amongst the younger teenage girls. Either that, or the promoters of the concert would soon pull them into line. Give the people what they want, right?
Naturally speaking, I enjoy light rock and a lot of pop music seems pretty melodious and catchy. God however, wants our every thought to be made captive to the obedience of Christ. That can't happen in me while some other words of dubious value are buzzing round in my head repetitively. Music was made primarily to praise and worship God with. Beautiful music can give us a sense of the eternal, but only God delivers the substance. A lot of Christians prefer being entertained to worshiping God. This preference has now carried over into our church music. There's tonnes of hype, and not a lot of power.
There is contemporary Christian music worth listening to, but if it is, its because those who play it are people of prayer with a passion for God. But how many are? You can be popular and successful in wordly terms even as a Christian minister without truly being on fire for God. It seems to me there is a mixture of spiritual influences in so much of the CCM scene - God hates these mixtures. A lot of CCM is so wishy-washy because its trying to soft-pedal the name of Jesus. They cannot and do not recommend holiness of heart and life.
You hear the artists complain 'Do we have to bring up the name of Jesus in every song?' Well, what is the motivation for avoiding the mention of His name? Are we ashamed? So many are trying to demonstrate that they are "cooler than thou". If you challenge this attitude, most likely you will be told you are 'religious' as if such name-calling proved anything.
Unless you are really far from God, most CCM won't draw you any closer to God. If it doesn't draw you to God, drop it. God has allowed people to use music as a tool for drawing a crowd of young people to preach to them. However, its my view that this is not the optimum in God. I never see anything like this in the book of Acts. This method of evangelism is used because we are not producing the signs and wonders that follow those who fast and pray for revival, and believe in God's promises enough to boldly step out and expect something to happen. But hey, we can be thankful if by any means some are coming to know the Lord. I would like to say though, that if 'knowing the Lord' is going to be more than a Christian cliche, its going to mean a denial of self in order to seek out God's Word and God's Spirit, not just an emotional high by whatever means.
I personally believe that there are dangers in the modern approach of using groovy music to draw the masses. The attitude it is played in is really important. Let's have talented musicians, with a humble attitude. God can bless that. Until people learn to really pray, much of what I am saying probably won't be received anyway. I do not believe that this rock and roll strategy with its accompanying attitude has been used anywhere where there has been a real revival of purity, holiness and humility. But if God does use it for such a thing, I would be delighted to be proven wrong on this issue.
Music is an idol for many, because it can make you feel better whether God speaks through it or not. Musical talent seems to be a passport to influence. One evangelist told me that he sang and produced albums because that was the only way he could get into some churches. And he was anointed! But if you play popular music, you can get influence in the church whether you are anointed or not! Should the standard required be higher for preachers than for those who may be having far more influence into the lives of young people - the musicians? I have had some personal experience with this and I still ask the questions.
A lot of the material put out by the CCM crowd is designed to appeal to pleasure-loving, carnal Christians. In the last days, the Bible warns, "men will be lovers of pleasure .. having a form of godliness (Christianity) but denying the power thereof" (2 Timothy 3:1-5). The true power of God comes through the cross. Not the cross as worn by pop icons such as Prince and Madonna, but the principal of (painful) death to the world and the flesh in order to sacrificially devote oneself to God and His pleasure. In a world which worships music and musicians, we Christians must beware of falling into the same trap. Without practising self-denial in this area, we will not grow in discipleship with Jesus Christ, but instead, we will learn from other masters. Jesus said, "if anyone desires to come after me, let him deny himself".
John Wesley pointed out that the self-denial means to deny oneself any pleasure that does not come from God, or lead to God. I don't believe in the simple rules men have devised to categorise whether a particular style of music could be of God, but I am convinced that much of the church today has opted for man-pleasing and pleasure-loving in the service of Mammon. If entertainers have become the prophets of the church today, then we should expect the highest standards of christian morality from them. Does the fact that someone can play the guitar brilliantly or sing well mean that God wants to put him in a place of prominence in His church? I don't think the message of a true prophet of God is that God wants us to have more fun, to be more cool and things like that. The true message is still "Repent, for the Kingdom of Heaven is at hand."
Music as a Tool for Evangelism
One man who did play contemporary style music and who did live a life of dedication to God was Keith Green. He died tragically of an airplane accident back in 1982. He did a lot to reach his generation for Christ, to stir up a passion for holiness and a zeal for missions, but it wasn't by being a carnal compromiser. He said a lot of crazy things like "the definition of a real Christian is someone who's bananas for Jesus". I recommend his music to those Christians who still need to come to the place where they are living for God.
Anything can be used for evangelism, but God wants our hearts to be pure and right, and our expression to be an expression of the nature of Jesus Christ. Those devoted to heavy metal and hard rock have a look in their eyes totally unlike that of Jesus Christ. Why would a real Christian want to look like they do? We are told to "avoid the appearance of evil, " (1 Thessalonians 5:22) not to look as evil as we can to attract sinners to the Lord. Are we now wiser than God?
I've talked with plenty of people who see rock music as a tool of evangelism. Some I've known quite closely. They still had the look of hurt and rebellion and seemed to be inwardly tormented individuals. Rock music has always been strongly hedonistic in nature, and doesn't transmit peace. How suitable is it as a medium for the "gospel of peace"? Yes, Rock Music can attract people to chuch meetings. But then again, so did the Emporer Constantine when he brought a flood of paganism into the church and gave birth to the Roman Catholic/Orthodox church power structure.
"The wisdom which is from above is first pure, then peaceable, gentle, willing to yield, full of mercy and good fruits, without partiality and without hypocrisy. Now the fruit of righteousness is sown in peace by those who make peace." (James 3:17,18). To me, even the style of rock music communicates agitation, restlessness and distraction. Its proven to be the perfect medium to promote the spirit of rebellion against God. Is Christian rock pure? Is it peaceable? Is it gentle? It is only because we the church in the west have abandoned the wisdom of God that we find it necessary to use the method of rock music as a tool of evangelism. Like the Israelites who used some of the Canaanites as servants instead of slaying them, we too have been more tolerant than God, and more pragmatic than God also. This is one reason why the church today lacks convicting power and seems to need all kinds of gimmicks to avoid boring people. We want to fascinate, rather than confront. I'm telling you, when God is there in power, its highly relevant to your personal life, and it has nothing to do with the presence or absence of gimmicks. Paul experienced God in a horrible prison cell. He didn't even have a radio.
What are we feeding on?
If we as Christians feed our souls on Christian Contemporary Music we will only be slightly better off than had we fed them on the music of people like Michael Jackson, Madonna, Prince, Fleetwood Mac and so on. There's a pleasure-seeking spirit in most of this music. People listen to it, not to hear from God, but to feel good. There's nothing wrong in itself with feeling good, but the pursuit of pleasure will not fill your soul with God. Its true that there is a pleasure, there is a joy in God's presence, and anyone who doesn't have this is missing the mark seriously. Yet the mere presence of goose bumps on one's flesh does not mean that music is anointed by the Holy Spirit. I've had goose bumps while tuning into ungodly secular pop/rock music too. There's a basic lack of discernment in the church today which we all suffer from to a certain extent. One of the consequences of this is that people think that God's anointing is on everything done in the name of Christ that makes them feel good. Actually, that's a pretty dangerous way to think.
Some make a case that all CCM and Christian Rock is fleshly and we have no business listening to it. Its true that a lot of compromise has entered this billion dollar industry in the last 20 years. To see this, I recommend the Dial the Truth Ministries site which exposes a lot of the vile garbage coming out of the lives of popular Christian entertainers today.
I am prepared to say that anyone who listens to CCM more than they pray or read the Word is in idolatry. Because most church-going young people don't find pleasure in prayer or the Word like they do in pop music, it seems like the Christian Music Entertainment business will continue to rake in far more money in America than the cause of world evangelisation amongst those people groups that have never heard the Good News. That's a reflection of our pleasure-loving hearts and our lack of sympathy with Jesus Christ. May God help us to change.
When musicians play their music, the spirit that is on them is transmitted to those who listen. This is true of preachers also. The church has exalted those with money and talent and they have imparted their spirit to the rest of us. I am not against electric guitars, drums or synthesizers, but no amount of feel-good music will benefit our souls - if those who play it publicly are not sold-out in their dedication to Jesus Christ. If we living lives of prayer and fasting then our hearts and the words which issue forth from them will touch God and draw people to God. Our music will exalt Christ and people will come to him. Its hard to exalt Christ and strive for a cool image at the same time. As John Wimber said, "Coolness is a jazz musician's euphemism for pride." In a lot of so-called Christian concerts, its pretty obvious that the artists are being worshiped. Some of them receive this worship even while telling people to give glory to Jesus.
I've never seen the genuine power of God for signs and wonders operate in a Christian rock concert type situation. Maybe you have, I don't know. Sure there is plenty of emotional energy in such settings, and it may be that many people will respond in some way to the message also. Hopefully, the musicians themselves are sold out to God because if not, like produces like, and the reality of God won't be seen. What is built on soul power and hype will not last. God is merciful and will use whatever occasion we give him to lift up the name of Jesus, but I am still hoping that there will be a return to apostolic evangelism methods in our western culture and we won't lean on the arm of the flesh to make things happen. But for that to happen, we need an army that will pray and fast and boldly preach until men shake like leaves and turn back to the living God. Do I sound like a voice in the wilderness?
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Strive to enter in at the strait gate:for many, I say unto you will seek to enter in, and shall not be able. ( Luke 13:24 )
Posts: 4578 | From: Southeast Texas | Registered: Jun 2002
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NLP
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Member # 5870
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posted
First let me just say I can’t stand rap music. I’ll never forget the day my daughter (she was 10 at the time) came home and told me they were playing rap music on her school bus. I was mortified!
With that being said though I know this is the only music some kids (people) will listen to. So if it can done in manner that praises Jesus instead of praising killing a police officer etc. then I think that is great, this may be the only gospel they will ever hear. Good for you.
To answer your question….YES, because
Romans 8:28 And we know that all things work together for good to them that love God, to them who are the called according to his purpose.
If God is calling you to reach those that would be otherwise be unreachable through rap then who would I be to say otherwise, just because I personally do not like that style of music. We have remember that some of the Christian music we listen to now was what they would have considered an abomination if our (g)randparents listened to it say in 1905.
Like the others have said just make sure it is truly glorifying the Lord and if so then God Bless I pray he can use you to bring others to salvation!
![[Prayer]](graemlins/prayer.gif)
Posts: 45 | From: New York | Registered: Jun 2006
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HE LIVES
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Member # 4931
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posted
I believe that if God is glorified through it, then He can and will use it.
Just make sure that it's God being glorified and not the music, or the life style.
I hope you reach many with the true gospel through rap, testimony, and just how you live your life in general. However you do it, let it glorify the Lord.
Posts: 182 | From: Missouri | Registered: Aug 2005
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Eduardo Grequi
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Member # 3984
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posted
Can God us rap music?
I would think ![[spiny]](graemlins/spiny.gif) He could, but general rap music I find offense in nature. I would listen to the website but my audio is not working. God can use anything He chooses. For me I love the old country gospel and Carmen and some of the newer groups.
Posts: 771 | From: Belvidere, IL | Registered: Oct 2004
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TB125
Advanced Member
Member # 2450
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posted
In the first place the design of your "home" page for your website is not very attractive and easy to view. Trying to read red letters on a black background is not a comfortable experience. It is hard to skim the various elements that are displayed to clarify your ministry and its resources. Your page seems to be disorganized, for example you have two rows of horizontal links across the top; why? That is about as far as I went with your site. Many viewers will not go any further. Sorry that I can't be more encouraging.
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Bob
Posts: 449 | From: Rockford Illinois | Registered: Nov 2003
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