This is topic CAN GOD USE RAP MUSIC FOR HIMSELF? in forum Exposing False Teaching at Christian Message Boards.


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Posted by ludamizleeto (Member # 6029) on :
 
CHRISTIAN RAP?

hello, my name is miz and i have been called to proclaim the truth of JESUS christ through rap. i would like to invite you to check some of the work out at http://www.myspace.com/ludamiz777

message me back if anyone has anything to say on the topic.

http://www.myspace.com/ludamiz777
 

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Posted by TB125 (Member # 2450) on :
 
In the first place the design of your "home" page for your website is not very attractive and easy to view. Trying to read red letters on a black background is not a comfortable experience. It is hard to skim the various elements that are displayed to clarify your ministry and its resources. Your page seems to be disorganized, for example you have two rows of horizontal links across the top; why? That is about as far as I went with your site. Many viewers will not go any further. Sorry that I can't be more encouraging.
 

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Posted by Eduardo Grequi (Member # 3984) on :
 
Can God us rap music?

I would think He could, but general rap music I find offense in nature. I would listen to the website but my audio is not working. God can use anything He chooses. For me I love the old country gospel and Carmen and some of the newer groups.
 

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Posted by HE LIVES (Member # 4931) on :
 
I believe that if God is glorified through it, then He can and will use it.

Just make sure that it's God being glorified and not the music, or the life style.

I hope you reach many with the true gospel through rap, testimony, and just how you live your life in general. However you do it, let it glorify the Lord.
 

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Posted by NLP (Member # 5870) on :
 
First let me just say I can’t stand rap music. I’ll never forget the day my daughter (she was 10 at the time) came home and told me they were playing rap music on her school bus. I was mortified!
With that being said though I know this is the only music some kids (people) will listen to. So if it can done in manner that praises Jesus instead of praising killing a police officer etc. then I think that is great, this may be the only gospel they will ever hear. Good for you.
To answer your question….YES, because

Romans 8:28 And we know that all things work together for good to them that love God, to them who are the called according to his purpose.

If God is calling you to reach those that would be otherwise be unreachable through rap then who would I be to say otherwise, just because I personally do not like that style of music. We have remember that some of the Christian music we listen to now was what they would have considered an abomination if our (g)randparents listened to it say in 1905.

Like the others have said just make sure it is truly glorifying the Lord and if so then God Bless I pray he can use you to bring others to salvation!

 

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Posted by becauseHElives (Member # 87) on :
 
Rap music is Satanic!

"The disciple is not above His Lord. If we want the joy of Christ, we must do what Christ did. For Him, satisfaction was not the result of finding some Christian pleasure to compete with the world's pleasure. It was not a question of being entertained by church performances instead of secular performances. Christ does not compete by promising a religious equivalent of what the world offers, pleasure for pleasure. It is completely different. The pleasure of Christ is the will of God and its enactment. No dance, no concert, no sensational move can compete with winning a soul for Christ".

Communications experts tell us that the words of something comprise about 7% of the total communication content. Even more is communicated via the tone of voice and via the Body Language. Musical performers communicates an attitude as well as a spirit. It is not just what is said, but the way it is said that is important. Often it is an attitude of worldly pride, or rebellion that is communicated. Some of the dancing in church these days would be fit for broadcast on MTV. And young people love that, when they are in the flesh. Doesn't matter whethere they are Christians or not. Sex sells.

Sometimes the message of the way something is being said communicates more than the words. It is possible to say, "Glory to Jesus" with your mouth, while your whole demeanour is saying, "Aren't I awesome?!". I have seen two kinds of brilliant guitarists in the church. One is humble and not trying to attract attention to himself. The other kind is just posing. Everything is done for effect.

Some music ministry, even worship ministry today claims to have Almighty God as the chief object of worship, yet the real admiration is going to the musicians. You can go to Christian concerts where it really looks like the people are worshipping the band! But this hardly seems to be a concern today. Its being done in the name of Jesus, after all, so it must be OK, right?

In the book of Acts Paul and Barnabas spoke a word and a crippled man walked. This happened in a city called Lystra. The people thought they were gods and started to worship them. Paul did not take this in his stride. He did not smile smugly, thinking how wonderful and godlike he really was. No, he and Barnabas tore their clothes in dismay and ended up getting stoned. Acts 14:14

What would happen if a modern rock band upon seeing the adulation of the crowd began to tear their clothes, broken-hearted that perhaps some soul was attributing to them what belonged to God alone? Can you imagine that happening? Perhaps an even greater frenzy would erupt in the crowd, especially amongst the younger teenage girls. Either that, or the promoters of the concert would soon pull them into line. Give the people what they want, right?

Naturally speaking, I enjoy light rock and a lot of pop music seems pretty melodious and catchy. God however, wants our every thought to be made captive to the obedience of Christ. That can't happen in me while some other words of dubious value are buzzing round in my head repetitively. Music was made primarily to praise and worship God with. Beautiful music can give us a sense of the eternal, but only God delivers the substance. A lot of Christians prefer being entertained to worshiping God. This preference has now carried over into our church music. There's tonnes of hype, and not a lot of power.

There is contemporary Christian music worth listening to, but if it is, its because those who play it are people of prayer with a passion for God. But how many are? You can be popular and successful in wordly terms even as a Christian minister without truly being on fire for God. It seems to me there is a mixture of spiritual influences in so much of the CCM scene - God hates these mixtures. A lot of CCM is so wishy-washy because its trying to soft-pedal the name of Jesus. They cannot and do not recommend holiness of heart and life.

You hear the artists complain 'Do we have to bring up the name of Jesus in every song?' Well, what is the motivation for avoiding the mention of His name? Are we ashamed? So many are trying to demonstrate that they are "cooler than thou". If you challenge this attitude, most likely you will be told you are 'religious' as if such name-calling proved anything.

Unless you are really far from God, most CCM won't draw you any closer to God. If it doesn't draw you to God, drop it. God has allowed people to use music as a tool for drawing a crowd of young people to preach to them. However, its my view that this is not the optimum in God. I never see anything like this in the book of Acts. This method of evangelism is used because we are not producing the signs and wonders that follow those who fast and pray for revival, and believe in God's promises enough to boldly step out and expect something to happen. But hey, we can be thankful if by any means some are coming to know the Lord. I would like to say though, that if 'knowing the Lord' is going to be more than a Christian cliche, its going to mean a denial of self in order to seek out God's Word and God's Spirit, not just an emotional high by whatever means.

I personally believe that there are dangers in the modern approach of using groovy music to draw the masses. The attitude it is played in is really important. Let's have talented musicians, with a humble attitude. God can bless that. Until people learn to really pray, much of what I am saying probably won't be received anyway. I do not believe that this rock and roll strategy with its accompanying attitude has been used anywhere where there has been a real revival of purity, holiness and humility. But if God does use it for such a thing, I would be delighted to be proven wrong on this issue.

Music is an idol for many, because it can make you feel better whether God speaks through it or not. Musical talent seems to be a passport to influence. One evangelist told me that he sang and produced albums because that was the only way he could get into some churches. And he was anointed! But if you play popular music, you can get influence in the church whether you are anointed or not! Should the standard required be higher for preachers than for those who may be having far more influence into the lives of young people - the musicians? I have had some personal experience with this and I still ask the questions.

A lot of the material put out by the CCM crowd is designed to appeal to pleasure-loving, carnal Christians. In the last days, the Bible warns, "men will be lovers of pleasure .. having a form of godliness (Christianity) but denying the power thereof" (2 Timothy 3:1-5). The true power of God comes through the cross. Not the cross as worn by pop icons such as Prince and Madonna, but the principal of (painful) death to the world and the flesh in order to sacrificially devote oneself to God and His pleasure. In a world which worships music and musicians, we Christians must beware of falling into the same trap. Without practising self-denial in this area, we will not grow in discipleship with Jesus Christ, but instead, we will learn from other masters. Jesus said, "if anyone desires to come after me, let him deny himself".

John Wesley pointed out that the self-denial means to deny oneself any pleasure that does not come from God, or lead to God. I don't believe in the simple rules men have devised to categorise whether a particular style of music could be of God, but I am convinced that much of the church today has opted for man-pleasing and pleasure-loving in the service of Mammon. If entertainers have become the prophets of the church today, then we should expect the highest standards of christian morality from them. Does the fact that someone can play the guitar brilliantly or sing well mean that God wants to put him in a place of prominence in His church? I don't think the message of a true prophet of God is that God wants us to have more fun, to be more cool and things like that. The true message is still "Repent, for the Kingdom of Heaven is at hand."

Music as a Tool for Evangelism

One man who did play contemporary style music and who did live a life of dedication to God was Keith Green. He died tragically of an airplane accident back in 1982. He did a lot to reach his generation for Christ, to stir up a passion for holiness and a zeal for missions, but it wasn't by being a carnal compromiser. He said a lot of crazy things like "the definition of a real Christian is someone who's bananas for Jesus". I recommend his music to those Christians who still need to come to the place where they are living for God.

Anything can be used for evangelism, but God wants our hearts to be pure and right, and our expression to be an expression of the nature of Jesus Christ. Those devoted to heavy metal and hard rock have a look in their eyes totally unlike that of Jesus Christ. Why would a real Christian want to look like they do? We are told to "avoid the appearance of evil, " (1 Thessalonians 5:22) not to look as evil as we can to attract sinners to the Lord. Are we now wiser than God?

I've talked with plenty of people who see rock music as a tool of evangelism. Some I've known quite closely. They still had the look of hurt and rebellion and seemed to be inwardly tormented individuals. Rock music has always been strongly hedonistic in nature, and doesn't transmit peace. How suitable is it as a medium for the "gospel of peace"? Yes, Rock Music can attract people to chuch meetings. But then again, so did the Emporer Constantine when he brought a flood of paganism into the church and gave birth to the Roman Catholic/Orthodox church power structure.

"The wisdom which is from above is first pure, then peaceable, gentle, willing to yield, full of mercy and good fruits, without partiality and without hypocrisy. Now the fruit of righteousness is sown in peace by those who make peace." (James 3:17,18). To me, even the style of rock music communicates agitation, restlessness and distraction. Its proven to be the perfect medium to promote the spirit of rebellion against God. Is Christian rock pure? Is it peaceable? Is it gentle? It is only because we the church in the west have abandoned the wisdom of God that we find it necessary to use the method of rock music as a tool of evangelism. Like the Israelites who used some of the Canaanites as servants instead of slaying them, we too have been more tolerant than God, and more pragmatic than God also. This is one reason why the church today lacks convicting power and seems to need all kinds of gimmicks to avoid boring people. We want to fascinate, rather than confront. I'm telling you, when God is there in power, its highly relevant to your personal life, and it has nothing to do with the presence or absence of gimmicks. Paul experienced God in a horrible prison cell. He didn't even have a radio.

What are we feeding on?

If we as Christians feed our souls on Christian Contemporary Music we will only be slightly better off than had we fed them on the music of people like Michael Jackson, Madonna, Prince, Fleetwood Mac and so on. There's a pleasure-seeking spirit in most of this music. People listen to it, not to hear from God, but to feel good. There's nothing wrong in itself with feeling good, but the pursuit of pleasure will not fill your soul with God. Its true that there is a pleasure, there is a joy in God's presence, and anyone who doesn't have this is missing the mark seriously. Yet the mere presence of goose bumps on one's flesh does not mean that music is anointed by the Holy Spirit. I've had goose bumps while tuning into ungodly secular pop/rock music too. There's a basic lack of discernment in the church today which we all suffer from to a certain extent. One of the consequences of this is that people think that God's anointing is on everything done in the name of Christ that makes them feel good. Actually, that's a pretty dangerous way to think.

Some make a case that all CCM and Christian Rock is fleshly and we have no business listening to it. Its true that a lot of compromise has entered this billion dollar industry in the last 20 years. To see this, I recommend the Dial the Truth Ministries site which exposes a lot of the vile garbage coming out of the lives of popular Christian entertainers today.

I am prepared to say that anyone who listens to CCM more than they pray or read the Word is in idolatry. Because most church-going young people don't find pleasure in prayer or the Word like they do in pop music, it seems like the Christian Music Entertainment business will continue to rake in far more money in America than the cause of world evangelisation amongst those people groups that have never heard the Good News. That's a reflection of our pleasure-loving hearts and our lack of sympathy with Jesus Christ. May God help us to change.

When musicians play their music, the spirit that is on them is transmitted to those who listen. This is true of preachers also. The church has exalted those with money and talent and they have imparted their spirit to the rest of us. I am not against electric guitars, drums or synthesizers, but no amount of feel-good music will benefit our souls - if those who play it publicly are not sold-out in their dedication to Jesus Christ. If we living lives of prayer and fasting then our hearts and the words which issue forth from them will touch God and draw people to God. Our music will exalt Christ and people will come to him. Its hard to exalt Christ and strive for a cool image at the same time. As John Wimber said, "Coolness is a jazz musician's euphemism for pride." In a lot of so-called Christian concerts, its pretty obvious that the artists are being worshiped. Some of them receive this worship even while telling people to give glory to Jesus.

I've never seen the genuine power of God for signs and wonders operate in a Christian rock concert type situation. Maybe you have, I don't know. Sure there is plenty of emotional energy in such settings, and it may be that many people will respond in some way to the message also. Hopefully, the musicians themselves are sold out to God because if not, like produces like, and the reality of God won't be seen. What is built on soul power and hype will not last. God is merciful and will use whatever occasion we give him to lift up the name of Jesus, but I am still hoping that there will be a return to apostolic evangelism methods in our western culture and we won't lean on the arm of the flesh to make things happen. But for that to happen, we need an army that will pray and fast and boldly preach until men shake like leaves and turn back to the living God. Do I sound like a voice in the wilderness?
 

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Posted by TEXASGRANDMA (Member # 847) on :
 
I am not into rap music. I also have problems with Christian music that does not even mention God. I heard a song the other day that could have been played on a rock station as a love song to a girl, because there was no mention of God at all in the song.
 

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Posted by shadowmaker (Member # 3696) on :
 

quote:

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Originally posted by becauseHElives:
Rap music is Satanic!

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Because you dont like it? I dont like it either. But we re losing a generation and one of the reason is we "dont like the music". ?? So we re suppose to only listen to old gospel hymns? I understand what you are saying and some people will use music to make money and be phoneys, just like false phophets. But to say one type of music is satanic is wrong. I can write a gospel song but make it satanic if thats my wish. Can you go witness to a kids who like rap music and play country music? No, so you have to use what they like. Its like a dress code. Do you tell todays youth they cant wear jeans and tshirts to church? If you do the majority wont come.

My point is the question was can God use rap music and the answer is yes. You cant have a closed mind. Can you take a rap song by snoop dog and play it in church? Well of course not. But if a rap song is prasing God, of course you can.
 

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Posted by SoftTouch (Member # 2316) on :
 
I am not opposed to Christian Music set to different styles at all. So long as the words Glorify Christ and preach HIS Gospel then the message gets out to some who may not hear it any other way. I do have a problem when people tend to worship the Band instead of the Lord they sing about, but that is an issue in each individuals hearts that he or she must deal with with the Lord.

I do agree that certain styles of Dancing are Very Inappropriate if they include sensual movements... WRONG MESSAGE and in my opinion Not Christian At All.

I have heard Christian Rap, and although I don't like Rap Music, what I've heard was outstanding! I can't remember the artists name, but my son got a CD from a friend and I listend to the whole thing to test the message... it was the Gospel Plain and Simple!

God can use Anything HE choses to use, including talking through an *** (donky)

I do not believe that Music in and of its self is either evil or good.... it's the Message in the words that is whats important. Although I Refuse to listen to screaming guitars with heavy metal sounds... that to me is an offensive sound. I also don't like any artist who Screams the words because you can't hear them... if you can't hear the words, what good can they do?

However, I don't believe that Christian Rock or Rap belong in a Worship Service (Chruch Service). I have nothing against upbeat songs of Praise (the Lord said to make a JOYFUL Noise ) but I believe the other styles are best left to listening during other times (in the car, at home, at a concert - if you like that format, which I don't).

That's my $.02
 

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Posted by becauseHElives (Member # 87) on :
 

quote:

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shadowmaker,

But we re losing a generation and one of the reason is we "dont like the music". ??

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No, you are wrong….

There is only one reason we are losing a generation, and that is because of the apostasy that is continually spreading like a cancer in the Body of Christ.

You might just as well ask “can Yahweh use rebellion to spread the Gospel”?

Does anybody understand what rebellion is?

The scripture state plainly that rebellion is as the sin of witch craft….

Rock and Roll music and Rap music both are born out of pure rebellion, if anyone can’t see that they are spiritually dead.

Christianity has nothing to do with a person’s culture or preference.

Christians are of another Kingdom, and the only thing they should be identified with is Christ / Yeshua,

Take a test of your understanding of music….

http://www.av1611.org/crktstin.html
 

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Posted by Marcopolio (Member # 6027) on :
 
YES GOD CAN AND SHOULD USE RAP MUSIC.. BUT PLEASE MAKE IT GOOD!! Also, let me explain a little bit about my musical background and Christianity. You have to realize that there is good music, and there is Christian music. And for a long time, they have been mutually exclusive. Please dont take this the wrong way. I like to sing in church, and songs that sing praise to the lord are WONDERFUL. They can be MUSIC. But, where I am coming from is having had Bible school tell me all kinds of things about music that were just not true.

At church camp I was told that the beatles had subliminal backward masking in their Love potion #9 song, that said "Smoke Marijuana" repeatedly. I wanted to hear it.. they played it backward for us.. and an amazing thing happened.. lots of kids heard it.. I didnt. I listend and listened the best I could hear was some rythmic garbage that you could have said was anything. which made me question why, if the beatles were outwardly expressing their views on drugs, why would they try to be subversive about it?? This turned me into an instant skeptic on the issue of music and faith. I decided at the age of 10, that I would still listen to the beatles, and just because they did drugs didnt mean I had to.

Now on to Christian music.. A good friend of mine growing up with me in the church was a skateboarder, and was way into listeing to DEATH METAL... Now I wont pretend I share his taste in music, but the youth group leaders were all on him about listening to CHRISTIAN music instead. They even went through the trouble of finding some CHRISTIAN, DEATH METAL for him to listen to.. yes.. its out there..

I was given some CDs to listen to that were "GOOD" Christian groups.. and I have to say.. they were terrible. DC talk? more like DC **** . Now if you just want to sing praise to the lord, thats fine.. but for someone who enjoys music for the sake of listening to music there is a difference. I found the PIXIES. I loved the Pixies and I felt conflicted for a long time about liking the music I liked because it was secular. What I later came to realize, is that If I listen to music that is secular and it makes me happy, that is just fine. I get out of it what I put into it. You can listen to secular music, and it can be beautiful, and awe inspiring, and never mention God at all, but you can listen and think, yes, God is great that he could create such a wonderful world of music and sound for us to enjoy.

The reason for the rant, is to explain how put off I was for such a long time by people trying to press Christian music on me as a kid. I dont care if they do praise God, the music can still be awefull, and that is a turn off to people.

If I get in the car with someone and they are playing music that is **** .. and loving it.. My opinion of them immediately drops. I hate to be a self professed music snob, but thats how it is. So if you bring somoene a cd and tell them to listen to it and they arent a christian, if its not REALLY GOOD music, it will have the opposite effect. It will tell people that you have bad taste, and why would you want to follow somoene with bad taste?
 

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Posted by freddy05 (Member # 5854) on :
 
I am surprised that the year is 2006 and there is still a debate on this. Though I do believe that even within the fundimentalist church, there are only a relative few left who believe strongly against certain music styles.

Yet this small minority of irrational, head in the sand, refuse to move forward in history crowd, has a loud enough voice to turn masses away from the kingdom.

I believe the anti-rap, anti-rock crowd has turned more away from the cross than Christian music has brought to the cross. Just my hunch, but I think its pretty sad.
 

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Posted by Marcopolio (Member # 6027) on :
 
Amen Freddy... Kind of what I wanted to say only an much fewer words
 

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Posted by shadowmaker (Member # 3696) on :
 
I grew up listening to heavy metal, Kiss, ac/dc, ozzy, etc etc. So what you re telling me is bc I listen to a song I m going to hell? When I was drinking and paryting it wasnt bc of the music. The music had nothing to do with it. The music didnt make me do things. I listened to it bc i liked it. Like someone said, 40 yrs later and its the same arguement.

My point about losing a generation, is we have to reach these kids. Churches have turned people from Christ with all of their legalist rules. Tattoos are wrong but yet I ve seen no scripture to support this. YES I know about the Lev one and thats another discussion. So we tell the kids no tattoos. Ear rings are wrong, dressing a certain way is wrong. Their music is wrong. Alot of kids are going to hell bc some people wont change their approach on how to reach em. I bet you could led more kids who listen to rap to Christ with Christian rap music, than you can by playing Amazing Grace. So taking a test or pointing out some groups use this lyric is hogwash, plain and simple.

Some of the old hymns, they may have beautiful words that praise God to the highest. But when you sing them they sound like someone is strangling a cat. And trying to reach someone like that simply isnt going to work with everybody. Reason being is bc everyone is different.

Sorry but you can not convince me GOD cant take a rap song and use it. And I dont like rap.
 

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Posted by becauseHElives (Member # 87) on :
 

quote:

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shadowmaker
Sorry but you can not convince me GOD can’t take a rap song and use it. And I don’t like rap.

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quote:

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Originally posted by becauseHElives:

quote:

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shadowmaker
Sorry but you can not convince me GOD can’t take a rap song and use it. And I don’t like rap.

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No, you are not convinced that "The Bible" is the absolute Word of Yahweh to mankind.

You are not convinced there are moral absolutes the child of Yahweh must live by everyday.

Humanism posing as Christianity is a sickening sight leading many to the pit of Hell.

To go one step father, music does not even have a place in bringing people to Yeshua, it is the foolishness of preaching alone that`saves….

. 1 Corinthians 1:21-25

21. For after that in the wisdom of God the world by wisdom knew not God, it pleased God by the foolishness of preaching to save them that believe.
22. For the Jews require a sign, and the Greeks seek after wisdom:
23. But we preach Christ crucified, unto the Jews a stumbling block, and unto the Greeks foolishness;
24. But unto them which are called, both Jews and Greeks, Christ the power of God, and the wisdom of God.
25. Because the foolishness of God is wiser than men; and the weakness of God is stronger than men.

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Oh so now I m not a Christian and dont know the Bible. You dont know me, know nothing about me at all, and yet you judge me and say I dont know the Bible. Ok whatever.


AND no its the blood of Jesus Christ alone that saves. I never said music saved anybody.

Its you who isnt convinced. Youre telling me, that God cant take a rap song and use it? So you re saying God has limits on what he can and cant do. You re telling me that a person cant do a rap song in the name of Jesus. You automatically are against bc its a rap song. And thats hog wash. Show me the versus that says, I cant listen to rap music, country music, rock and roll. What about Psalms 150 ?

So, bc certain rock stars said something satanic, we are suppose to condemn ALL rock music. Do we condemn all preachers bc of the few who are false prophets?

The people of the church are keeping people from being saved and coming to know Jesus. All their silly man made rules and beliefs to justify things they like and dislike... You know what, I m not even going to get on my soap box.
 

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Posted by becauseHElives (Member # 87) on :
 
shadowmaker,

It's hard enough to debate with people that use the Scriptures as the only source of Truth, but to debate with someone like you that doesn't use the scripture to form all doctrine it is impossible
 

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Posted by shadowmaker (Member # 3696) on :
 

quote:

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Originally posted by becauseHElives:
shadowmaker,

It's hard enough to debate with people that use the Scriptures as the only source of Truth, but to debate with someone like you that doesn't use the scripture to form all doctrine it is impossible

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quote:

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Originally posted by becauseHElives:

"Rap Music" is a contradiction of terms; it is not even music, its noise, confusion.

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quote:

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Originally posted by becauseHElives:

Rap Music, how sad Itty-Bitty Girl, I thought you were a defender of Truth, but it seems you are just another defender of the Apostate Church siding with using the fleshly elements of the world to draw people to the church system instead of …

The message of Yeshua, the way of the cross, death to self and the ways of the flesh.

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quote:

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Originally posted by becauseHElives:
I take it your black by your reference to Rap music being part of your culture.

I have nothing against blacks, and there is some beautiful heart felt gospel music from many Black Christians.

The Brooklyn Tabernacle Choir is a wonderful example of heart felt music.

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quote:

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Originally posted by becauseHElives:

Rock and Roll was my culture, but when I put away foolish things to follow Yeshua, it had to go.

I take it your black by your reference to Rap music being part of your culture.

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quote:

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Originally posted by Itty-Bitty Girl:

quote:

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Originally posted by becauseHElives:

Rock and Roll was my culture, but when I put away foolish things to follow Yeshua, it had to go.

I take it your black by your reference to Rap music being part of your culture.

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Yeah. I'm black, and I stopped listening to the foolish, negative and evil side of rap.

But now I don't see anything wrong with GOSPEL Christian rap; it glories God.

Since Rock and Roll was your culture, do you see something wrong with GOSPEL Christian rock?

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Yes she does. She hasnt said what music she listens to, but rock and rap are satanic regardless if its Christian or not. According to her. I ask about Psalms 150 and got no response.
 

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Posted by Jazzee (Member # 6040) on :
 
"On the basis that rebellion is against the very nature of Yahweh, ask yourself were did “rock and roll” “rap’ and some other forms of music get their beginnings.
originally posted by Because he lives".


It is my impression that the Bible is talking about rebellion against God.
Sometimes we as humans have to rebel if something is not right, meaning rebellion against evil is a good thing. It is very easy to call the battles we agree on "good fights" or "righteous wars" etc and when we don't agree in it we call it rebellion.
Rock'n'roll did not start as a teenage rebellion music by Elvis. It is an african american music. ( and I take it every attempt by the african american to seek justice was rebellion?). The first time the word Rock'n'roll was used was at a concert with Fats Domino where DJ Alan Freed commented looking at all the happy youngsters enjoying the music " look at all these people rockin' and rollin'!". Well since Because He lives doesn't like music and probably not dancing either one can call that rebellion. But before we categorize all modern music as rebellion music maybe we should think about WHO categorized it rebellion and WHEN. It was different times. Back then a black man sitting in front of the bus was rebellion.
 

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Posted by Jazzee (Member # 6040) on :
 
Because he lives, you use the example of sex drugs and rock'n'roll.
We all know that all things are created by God. Especially our ability as human beings to create, be it art, literature, science or music. This is a good thing that the Lord has given us. He made us this way, so I am sure He loves creativity and since He made us all so diverse I am sure He loves diversity too. He also created sex . The fact that there is pornography and promiscuity and even worse things does NOT make sex a wrong thing. It is still an incredibly wonderful thing that God created for us to enjoy within our marriage. Music is the same. God created music, He loves all music as long as it is coming from a sincere heart. God does not have a taste for only European music from 1700 something or slow countrygospel etc. His taste is WAY more diverse than yours. Trust me. The reason why. He created ALL of us in his image. We are all a reflexion of Him. He is THAT diverse and then some....
We cannot put Him in a little square box and say "See this is God, this is how and who He is" God doesn't fit in little religious manmade boxes.
 

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Posted by becauseHElives (Member # 87) on :
 
anything I say about rap music can be applied to rock music or jazz music

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Since Rock and Roll was your culture, do you see something wrong with GOSPEL Christian rock?

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"The wisdom which is from above is first pure, then peaceable, gentle, willing to yield, full of mercy and good fruits, without partiality and without hypocrisy. Now the fruit of righteousness is sown in peace by those who make peace." (James 3:17,18). To me, even the style of rock music communicates agitation, restlessness and distraction. Its proven to be the perfect medium to promote the spirit of rebellion against God. Is Christian rock pure? Is it peaceable? Is it gentle? It is only because we the church in the west have abandoned the wisdom of God that we find it necessary to use the method of rock music as a tool of evangelism. Like the Israelites who used some of the Canaanites as servants instead of slaying them, we too have been more tolerant than God, and more pragmatic than God also. This is one reason why the church today lacks convicting power and seems to need all kinds of gimmicks to avoid boring people. We want to fascinate, rather than confront. I'm telling you, when God is there in power, its highly relevant to your personal life, and it has nothing to do with the presence or absence of gimmicks. Paul experienced God in a horrible prison cell. He didn't even have a radio.

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Rock music has always been strongly hedonistic in nature, and doesn't transmit peace. How suitable is it as a medium for the "gospel of peace"? Yes, Rock Music can attract people to chuch meetings. But then again, so did the Emporer Constantine when he brought a flood of paganism into the church and gave birth to the Roman Catholic/Orthodox church power structure.

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I do not believe that this rock and roll strategy with its accompanying attitude has been used anywhere where there has been a real revival of purity, holiness and humility. But if God does use it for such a thing, I would be delighted to be proven wrong on this issue.

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A lot of the material put out by the CCM crowd is designed to appeal to pleasure-loving, carnal Christians. In the last days, the Bible warns, "men will be lovers of pleasure .. having a form of godliness (Christianity) but denying the power thereof" (2 Timothy 3:1-5). The true power of God comes through the cross. Not the cross as worn by pop icons such as Prince and Madonna, but the principal of (painful) death to the world and the flesh in order to sacrificially devote oneself to God and His pleasure. In a world which worships music and musicians, we Christians must beware of falling into the same trap. Without practising self-denial in this area, we will not grow in discipleship with Jesus Christ, but instead, we will learn from other masters. Jesus said, "if anyone desires to come after me, let him deny himself".

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John Wesley pointed out that the self-denial means to deny oneself any pleasure that does not come from God, or lead to God.

I don't believe in the simple rules men have devised to categorise whether a particular style of music could be of God, but I am convinced that much of the church today has opted for man-pleasing and pleasure-loving in the service of Mammon.

If entertainers have become the prophets of the church today, then we should expect the highest standards of christian morality from them.

Does the fact that someone can play the guitar brilliantly or sing well mean that God wants to put him in a place of prominence in His church? I don't think the message of a true prophet of God is that God wants us to have more fun, to be more cool and things like that.

The true message is still "Repent, for the Kingdom of Heaven is at hand."

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Anything can be used for evangelism, but God wants our hearts to be pure and right, and our expression to be an expression of the nature of Jesus Christ. Those devoted to heavy metal and hard rock have a look in their eyes totally unlike that of Jesus Christ. Why would a real Christian want to look like they do? We are told to "avoid the appearance of evil, " (1 Thessalonians 5:22) not to look as evil as we can to attract sinners to the Lord. Are we now wiser than God?

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Originally posted by becauseHElives:
anything I say about rap music can be applied to rock music or jazz music

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Since Rock and Roll was your culture, do you see something wrong with GOSPEL Christian rock?

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"The wisdom which is from above is first pure, then peaceable, gentle, willing to yield, full of mercy and good fruits, without partiality and without hypocrisy. Now the fruit of righteousness is sown in peace by those who make peace." (James 3:17,18). To me, even the style of rock music communicates agitation, restlessness and distraction. Its proven to be the perfect medium to promote the spirit of rebellion against God. Is Christian rock pure? Is it peaceable? Is it gentle? It is only because we the church in the west have abandoned the wisdom of God that we find it necessary to use the method of rock music as a tool of evangelism. Like the Israelites who used some of the Canaanites as servants instead of slaying them, we too have been more tolerant than God, and more pragmatic than God also. This is one reason why the church today lacks convicting power and seems to need all kinds of gimmicks to avoid boring people. We want to fascinate, rather than confront. I'm telling you, when God is there in power, its highly relevant to your personal life, and it has nothing to do with the presence or absence of gimmicks. Paul experienced God in a horrible prison cell. He didn't even have a radio.

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Yes I do as I said if any of you had taken the time to read what i posted...

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Rock music has always been strongly hedonistic in nature, and doesn't transmit peace. How suitable is it as a medium for the "gospel of peace"? Yes, Rock Music can attract people to chuch meetings. But then again, so did the Emporer Constantine when he brought a flood of paganism into the church and gave birth to the Roman Catholic/Orthodox church power structure.

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I do not believe that this rock and roll strategy with its accompanying attitude has been used anywhere where there has been a real revival of purity, holiness and humility. But if God does use it for such a thing, I would be delighted to be proven wrong on this issue.

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A lot of the material put out by the CCM crowd is designed to appeal to pleasure-loving, carnal Christians. In the last days, the Bible warns, "men will be lovers of pleasure .. having a form of godliness (Christianity) but denying the power thereof" (2 Timothy 3:1-5). The true power of God comes through the cross. Not the cross as worn by pop icons such as Prince and Madonna, but the principal of (painful) death to the world and the flesh in order to sacrificially devote oneself to God and His pleasure. In a world which worships music and musicians, we Christians must beware of falling into the same trap. Without practising self-denial in this area, we will not grow in discipleship with Jesus Christ, but instead, we will learn from other masters. Jesus said, "if anyone desires to come after me, let him deny himself".

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John Wesley pointed out that the self-denial means to deny oneself any pleasure that does not come from God, or lead to God.

I don't believe in the simple rules men have devised to categorise whether a particular style of music could be of God, but I am convinced that much of the church today has opted for man-pleasing and pleasure-loving in the service of Mammon.

If entertainers have become the prophets of the church today, then we should expect the highest standards of christian morality from them.

Does the fact that someone can play the guitar brilliantly or sing well mean that God wants to put him in a place of prominence in His church? I don't think the message of a true prophet of God is that God wants us to have more fun, to be more cool and things like that.

The true message is still "Repent, for the Kingdom of Heaven is at hand."

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Anything can be used for evangelism, but God wants our hearts to be pure and right, and our expression to be an expression of the nature of Jesus Christ. Those devoted to heavy metal and hard rock have a look in their eyes totally unlike that of Jesus Christ. Why would a real Christian want to look like they do? We are told to "avoid the appearance of evil, " (1 Thessalonians 5:22) not to look as evil as we can to attract sinners to the Lord. Are we now wiser than God?

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You keep jumping around trying to justify what you are saying and it really makes NO sense. Now they are evil bc of a "look in their eyes". All of this is your opinion, which is fine but you re trying to use scripture to say its wrong. Its your opinion that Christian rock and roll is wrong. Its your opinion that Christian rap is wrong. If its glorifying God its not wrong.

No churches have turned people away and yes we do have to use different ways to reach people. We ve labeled this generation of kids and teenagers as Generation X. In other words, they have no hope, no meaning. We have to give them hope and meaning. And if it means writing a Christian rock or rap song to do it, then by all means do it. I d rather use that song to get em interesting in Jesus Christ and get em saved, than I had to not use it and them go to hell.

People relate, listen, make friends,trust, depend, etc etc on people who look like them. I have friend who is an outstanding Christian. He has hair half way down his back. The people of the church didnt want him driving the church van or teaching Sunday school bc of it.........at first. He can and has reached people that others cant. He looks like a guy who would drink and party but hes just the opposite. Hes made a whole lot of people re-think judging based on appearance.

You call rap noise, the Bible says make a joyful noise.

Its ok for you to not like it. It really is. But for you to tell someone that they cant use it to glorify God is just your opinion. And if you say God CANT use it, then you are underestimating the power of God.
 

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Posted by freddy05 (Member # 5854) on :
 

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Originally posted by shadowmaker:
Its ok for you to not like it. It really is. But for you to tell someone that they cant use it to glorify God is just your opinion. And if you say God CANT use it, then you are underestimating the power of God.

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Originally posted by becauseHElives:

I do not believe that this rock and roll strategy with its accompanying attitude has been used anywhere where there has been a real revival of purity, holiness and humility. But if God does use it for such a thing, I would be delighted to be proven wrong on this issue.

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Originally posted by becauseHElives:

Does the fact that someone can play the guitar brilliantly or sing well mean that God wants to put him in a place of prominence in His church? I don't think the message of a true prophet of God is that God wants us to have more fun, to be more cool and things like that.

The true message is still "Repent, for the Kingdom of Heaven is at hand."

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Originally posted by becauseHElives:


your idea of Christian living is deplorable ,

half nude men and women, tattooed and pierced bodies, the use of crude, vulgar language, one instance I saw of the use of the “ F” word …

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Originally posted by Jazzee:
Because He lives

You never replied to my post about how to define rebellion. Did you read it?

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She hasnt responded to my question about Psalms 150 either.

The scripture in Esp that you posted says have nothing to do with the UNFRUITFUL DEEDS. If someone is glorifying God thru a song, how can you say its unfruitful?

The site that is posted and you went to, goes to the MyPage main website. I dont think the things you were seeing are for his personal website. I dont like MyPage bc there is alot of filth and I dont go there. But this guys particular site I didnt find anything. And even if you did that doesnt mean that every Christian rap song or writer isnt doing Gods work. We have false preachers and teachers but we dont stop going to church.

Again, the question was can God use rap? Not about rap being noise, or anything else. Can God use it? Personally, I d rather turn the radio off and listen to the tires roar than listen to rap. But God CAN USE IT IF HE WANTS TOO!!!! I dont underestimate the power of God.

And as far as body piercing and tattoos go, what does that have to do with anything? I guess now you cant be a Christian if you have any or got one?? Getting your ear pierced is a body piercing, what difference does it make if you do anywhere else? And for the record, I have none.
 

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Posted by Jazzee (Member # 6040) on :
 
actually I think it is an interesting twist.
( who define what is rebellious and when was it defined)
wish someone would comment
 

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Posted by BrianGrass1234 (Member # 5845) on :
 
this is from wikipedia

A rebellion is, in the most general sense, a refusal to accept authority. It may therefore be seen as encompassing a range of behaviours from civil disobedience to a violent organized attempt to destroy established authority. It is often used in reference to armed resistance against an established government, but can also refer to mass nonviolent resistance movements. Those who participate in rebellions are known as "rebels".
 

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Posted by helpforhomeschoolers (Member # 15) on :
 
All things are legal, but all things do not profit.

First let me say that I like all kinds of music. From heavy metal to classical, to reggae to Brian Eno and just about anything in between. There is no instrument I love to hear more than a sax and so I like Jazz, and blues and swing. I like what we used to call int he 70's soul music; I even like the beat of club music and hip hop and rap though I dont think rap is truly music. I like country music too and though I am completely opposed to the moral values of songs like Honky Tonk padonk adonk.. my feet still tap to the beat if I do not purposfully close my ears to it and it is playing around me. But I dont listen to these things.

Dale is right... this life is about the denial of self.. the denial of the desires of our flesh.

Now having said all that I go back to my orginal statement... all things are legal but all things do not profit...

This is a photo of an ice crystal frozen in the presence of Baach....



this is a picture of an ice crystal frozen in the presence of heavy metal rock & roll music....



Sound is wave phenomenon. Sound waves are readily transmitted through water. The human body is some 90 something precent water. Sound affects the human body. It can affect the human body in a positive way or a negative way. The blood chemistry of humans can be altered by sound. This is why sound therapy is used to treat a range of illnesses. Sound can raise or lower heart rate and blood pressure. Sound can effect mood physically by altering blood chemistry.

The fact that you like the music does not change this and this is a scientifically documented fact. I like the music of Metalica but that will not change the fact that the sound waves are capable of producing effects in my body that are not healthy or desirable.

So, if rebellion is the sin of witchcraft and the Bible says that it is... and if rebellion is the impetous that began rock & roll and other forms of sound that are as Dale has described from a scientific point of view and capable of causing as I have shown non desireable physical effects in the body then does it not stand to reason that GOD would care what we listen to?

Music is indeed the universal language. Music can conjure in my body the very same emotions that it can conjure in another who is of a totallly different culture... it will change heart rate and bloodpressure irrespective of our like or dislike. Words are immaterial to the discussion this is about wave action.

Did GOD not confuse language because it was (a) in his will, and (b) for the good of man who is subject to the deceptions of his own carnality and the works of the Evil one? Then I ask you who do you think is behind the corruption of sound waves and the universal language of music that was given to man for the purpose of praising GOD... is it possible that GOd is not praised by some sound waves?

We all have to make these decisions for our selves based on the leading of the Holy Spirit. And yes, GOD can use Rap music the very same way GOD is able to take every thing that Satan does and turn it to glorify HIMSELF and to bring good to HIS children, but should he have to because the Children of GOD are seeking to hang on to the things that are of the world and to bring GOd into their worldly lives instead of being reconcilled to HIS Holy one?

We do not need to imitate the world and call it Christian do we? Is this life about what we like and desire or is it about the denial of those things and the learning through HIS spirit to desire what HE desires? Is it about us or about HIM?
 

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Posted by freddy05 (Member # 5854) on :
 
Becausehelives-

One thing you seem to have completely missed apparently... is that God HAS used both Rap and Rock. Note the use of the word "HAS"... past tense. God has already used it.

I remember in my younger years going to a DC Talk concert (they do BOTH Rock and Rap, even heavy metal!) and I remember seeing quite the alter call after the concert and their message. There had to have been people in the thousands dedicating or rededicating their lives to Christ.

God can´t use it huh?
 

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Posted by freddy05 (Member # 5854) on :
 
One more thing... I´ve avoided saying this so far out of respect for my elders... BUT I CANT STAND HYMNS!!! The music makes me want to rip my eyes out. I really can´t understand how that is considered a joyful noise to God. I think many other 70s babies would agree with me too! I feel as passionately about how dull and boring hymns are as some others here feel about how bad rap is. I hear evangelicals complain about lituragy in Catholic and Lutheran churches often... but from my perspective hymns are the same thing! Boring ramblings that can put people to sleep.

HOWEVER! Honestly... I understand that people have different tastes, so I have NO PROBLEM if someone chooses or enjoys hymns. And even though I can´t stand them, I know God is powerful enough to use hymns!
 

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Posted by helpforhomeschoolers (Member # 15) on :
 
I dont think that it is disrespectful to say you dont like hymns. There are some hymns I dont like too. In addition to the music that is boring, there are some hymns that have lyrics that are not true to scripture even. There are some hymns I really love. But again I would ask is this topic really about what we like or dont? Is it just possible that some "music" is just bad for us physically and spiritually regardless of whether we like it or not? Surely everyone here knows that some music is good for us physically and spiritually why do we think that the other side of that is not possible?
 

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Posted by becauseHElives (Member # 87) on :
 
What is rebellion?

Rebellion is a refusal to accept authority. It may thus be seen as encompassing a range of behaviors from a mild flouting of social norms to a violent organized attempt to destroy established authority.

Rebellion to the Child of Yahweh is when we try to mix that which is Spiritual to that which of the world in agreement with the above definition.

Rap Music has as its author the rebellious spirit of Satan. And as I said before the same can be said of “Rock and Roll Music”.

You all may refuse to see it but Christian Rap Music is a mixture

Christ added to a form of music that is rebellious.

Yeshua came to set people free from the spirits of this world, not add the different spirits of the world to the Gospel.

Would you agree that Rock and Roll music started as the world’s music?

Would you agree that Rap music started as the world’s music?

If you don’t you are totally without Spiritual Discernment.

Once you understand that a thing, anything has its roots in this world, you can begin to understand what will not mix with the Gospel.

Understand Yahweh hate mixture.

Understand that the path to eternal life is a narrow path and few will find that path.

Rap music is not on that narrow path.
 

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Posted by Itty-Bitty Girl (Member # 4579) on :
 

quote:

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Originally posted by becauseHElives:
What is rebellion?

Rebellion is a refusal to accept authority. It may thus be seen as encompassing a range of behaviors from a mild flouting of social norms to a violent organized attempt to destroy established authority.

Rebellion to the Child of Yahweh is when we try to mix that which is Spiritual to that which of the world in agreement with the above definition.

Rap Music has as its author the rebellious spirit of Satan. And as I said before the same can be said of “Rock and Roll Music”.

You all may refuse to see it but Christian Rap Music is a mixture

Christ added to a form of music that is rebellious.

Yeshua came to set people free from the spirits of this world, not add the different spirits of the world to the Gospel.

Would you agree that Rock and Roll music started as the world’s music?

Would you agree that Rap music started as the world’s music?

If you don’t you are totally without Spiritual Discernment.

Once you understand that a thing, anything has its roots in this world, you can begin to understand what will not mix with the Gospel.

Understand Yahweh hate mixture.

Understand that the path to eternal life is a narrow path and few will find that path.

Rap music is not on that narrow path.

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Originally posted by Eden:


But I do think, Itty-Bitty Girl, that there could be such a thing as gospel rap, if done in a way that even God can bless.

Be blessed, and that's that.

Eden

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Certain notes were called satanic and avoided.

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Actually it not the notes by themselves but how they were/are arranged.

I am not defending Mozart or any of those guys either.

I forget who, but one of those so called great composers was homosexual.

Good and evil can not come out of the same vessel.
 

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Posted by Jazzee (Member # 6040) on :
 
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Rebellion is a refusal to accept authority right.
The Authority we as christians are to obey is GODS authority. There are many authorities in the world some good some bad. The authority in Saudi Arabia says you cannot be a christian. The authority in Nazi Germany said exterminate the jews.The authority in The US under Jim Crow said everything african american is BAD. ( This is the time when rock'n'roll took form and by the way IS an african american music form which people like Elvis adopted from folks like Fats Domino, Louis Jordan, Little Richard etc.since black music could not be played on the radio) Black people did not see their music as rebellious music. It was plain and simple: their music.

post scriptum: Satan is uncapable of creating something God allready created, which is music and all the notes and sounds in the world.
he( Satan) only takes what is Gods and twists it. Just like he does with sex and all other things. Satan is trying to take the honor for having created sex. Most non christians believe it. He also tries to claim most of the music in this world. Well he can't. We are taking it back back.

you say "understand Yahweh hates mixture" what DO you mean by that!! mixture in general or what
 

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Posted by freddy05 (Member # 5854) on :
 

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Originally posted by becauseHElives:

Good and evil can not come out of the same vessel.

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“Sound is wave phenomenon. Sound waves are readily transmitted through water. The human body is some 90 something precent water."

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"....Sound affects the human body. It can affect the human body in a positive way or a negative way. The blood chemistry of humans can be altered by sound. This is why sound therapy is used to treat a range of illnesses. Sound can raise or lower heart rate and blood pressure. Sound can effect mood physically by altering blood chemistry.”.......

“…music is wavelengths and I do think that God Yehovah and Lord Jesus have a taste for a "certain wavelength", and God/Jesus probably look for that sweet Holy Spirit wavelength mixed in with natural, yes, but unmistakably Holy Spirit wavelength.”

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Oops!! ...I think we may have wandered into the New Age music bin w/ some of this!<lol>
 

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Posted by EL3LN3TN (Member # 6021) on :
 

quote:

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Originally posted by helpforhomeschoolers:
[QB] This is a photo of an ice crystal frozen in the presence of Baach....



this is a picture of an ice crystal frozen in the presence of heavy metal rock & roll music....

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I don't think it's derailing this thread to request where you got this info from & where/whom did the "research"??

..and what exactly the environmental conditions "in the presence of"...a certain type of music would be??? Just wondering, really.

If it's what I'd think - ANY type of generated vibration would have some effect on crystallization if it were contacted w/ freezing water - whether it was "musically generated" or not is really beside the point.
 

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Posted by helpforhomeschoolers (Member # 15) on :
 
I have been for some time trying to find the source that I got them from. I found them a couple of years ago while helping my daughter (a music student) on a term paper about the use of music in medicine for therapy. I had thought that the pictures were gone, but recently I found them in some stuff I archived onto CD's. I am not sure I still have the information on the source. I was searching the ERIC Digest a lot for that paper, so I will try to find some time to look there. Last year, we lost the computer hard drive that the actual paper she wrote was done on, so I cant go back there.

You may think that this is nuts or new age or what ever you like and make fun of me all that you want, but my interest in this did not begin from a point of religious thinking or as some would term legalism. My interest in this began because I live in a family of musicians, and one of them is a college student and because I am interested in the functioning of the human body at the cellular level and because I like all kinds of music and am interested in the affects of music on the body and its use in medicine and as I began to look into this it occurs to me that not all sound is good for the human body and if that is so then this is by GOD's design and it must be that he has some interest in what we listen to. Do you know what language sounded like at the time of Babel? non of us does.. is it really far fetched to think that it might sound musical? Do not today the language of animals.. like dolphins for example have musical quality? Of course this is conjecture or speculation, but it is not totally out of no where, and it is a fact that you can alter human mood and emotion at a cellular and chemical level irrespective of likes or taste in music. You can alter brain wave patterns with music. So make fun all you want but I will continue to believe that what we hear can both help and harm us.
 

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Posted by Caretaker (Member # 36) on :
 
http://www.is-masaru-emoto-for-real.com/

For instance, the crystal below on the left was observed in a sample of distilled water that had been played Beethoven’s 5th Symphony, and the crystal on the right was observed in a sample of distilled water that had been played so-called “heavy metal” music (Emoto, Messages 17).

I
 

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Posted by BrianGrass1234 (Member # 5845) on :
 
The arguments for rap music, or any other kind of music being evil are all make no sense.

Music, art, dance, poetry, movies, books, speakers, any source of information or expression isn't in itself evil. Its how you respond to it individually that defines the right and wrong.

Its like beer. A little is fine and too much is not. God doesn't like drunkeness because the alcohol is now controlling us. And it may take a lot more beer to get me drunk than you and if your going to have some you need to know you limits and how it affects you. Its the same with everything. You need to know how certain things affect you and when they are affecting you in a negative mannor.

Thats why God says to test all things against his Word and you need to sort it out for yourself and yourself alone. You have no business telling someone their style of music is wrong, when It may be that type of music that may lead them to christ, or allow them to get to know others that they could lead to christ and the music is the catalyst.

It really bugged me to read Itty-Bitty Girl talk about not listening to rap because of some immoral activities individuals associated with the music. Its about how the music affects you and you need to sort that out on your own. But for her to be discuraged could cause her to not have the joy that music caused her, or could make her miss oppertunities to share christ that a common enjoyment in that type of music could bring.
 

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Posted by BrianGrass1234 (Member # 5845) on :
 
Those who oppose wrap or rock or whatever kind of music need to go check out a punk band named Dogwood. I'd give you the link but there site is down. Anyway I can be listening to the All hands on Deck song and it makes me cry. No other music can touch me like that. If someone would have told those guys when they were kids that punk is evil. Then God wouldn't have been able to touch me through that song like he does every time. And its because of the way the truth is being spoken to me and how it reminds me of God's word when I hear it.
 

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Posted by Jazzee (Member # 6040) on :
 
Brian Grass I feel the same..especially about little bitty girl. Who knows if God actually had some plans for her using the music she likes to win others for Christ?

.. as I said before, if your reason for not listening to rock is that it derives from worldliness, then you actually can't listen to any music at all. Even the so called "christian styles" derived from worldly music at some point.
Music is music. And even if there is such a thing as a physical effect like homescholer suggested...which there can be.. maybe we all need various "soundtreatments" at different times, since we all react differently to music.
Please do not condemn or judge others based on such a little thing as different taste!

btw I too am a proffessional musician
 

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Posted by Jazzee (Member # 6040) on :
 
caretaker
I do not know if you adress me, but I have been a born again christian for 20 years.
I have no problems with seeking The Lord and His guidance. In fact I believe strongly that each person should do that individually. I am a proffessional musician and God has never told me that I could only listen to certain styles of music.
I also believe we have to be VERY careful not to judge others, especially based on things that are not clearly stated in The Bible. The Bible does not tell us what style of music to listen to. It does not tell us that it is wrong to enjoy music and art for the sake of enjoying it. As long as it is good and not evil. God gave us tastebuds so that we can enjoy our food. Something that is totally unnesseccary for eating and staying alive. He made us enjoy reproduction something that is absolutely unneccessary for reproducing. He even made it so we can make love with our spouse even when we are not reproducing, only to enjoy it and bond with our loved one. He made us not only able to hear for the sake of surviving and communicating but also to enjoy music. He gave us beautiful colors. He made the World full of beautiful things for us to enjoy. God likes when we enjoy what He has created for us.It is not sinful to enjoy. It does not mean that we do not give glory to Christ. To suggest that people with different opinions are less christians is arrogant. It would be something else if we were speaking against The fundaments on which our faith stands!

God calls us in different ares. Some things may not be good for you for some reasons. It does not mean they are not good for me. God may tell you not to eat certain foods for some reason. That does not mean I can't.

the word rock'n'roll was first used about the music when DJ Alan Freed, at a Fats Domino concert, looked at the crowd and said: "look at all these people rockin and rollin". Before the style was called jump blues or New Orleans rhytm and blues. BTW my husband ( who is an african american tells me that he has never heard the word rock'n'roll used as a slang for sexual intercourse. Maybe it has, but he has never heard it ( he is 40 btw)
 

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Posted by EL3LN3TN (Member # 6021) on :
 

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Originally posted by Caretaker:
http://www.is-masaru-emoto-for-real.com/

For instance, the crystal below on the left was observed in a sample of distilled water that had been played Beethoven’s 5th Symphony, and the crystal on the right was observed in a sample of distilled water that had been played so-called “heavy metal” music (Emoto, Messages 17).

I

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Post scriptum: Satan is incapable of creating something God already created, which is music and all the notes and sounds in the world.
he ( Satan) only takes what is Gods and twists it. Just like he does with sex and all other things. Satan is trying to take the honor for having created sex. Most non Christians believe it. He also tries to claim most of the music in this world. Well he can't. We are taking it back back.

you say "understand Yahweh hates mixture" what DO you mean by that!! Mixture in general or what

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Originally posted by becauseHElives:

I am specifically referring to mixture of this world and the things of this world.

You that approve of Rap Music and Rock Music are blind leaders of the blind; I pray you may find a place to repent before it is to late.

As any music expert will tell you, the beat, tone, cadence and arrangement of music affects human moods. Lyrics, or words, play only a minimal rôle. Even instrumental music can make you feel blue, moody and depressed, or zippy, peppy and upbeat. It can inspire you or drag you down.

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Originally posted by becauseHElives:

Music can invite in demons -- as sorcerers, shamans and witchdoctors well know -- or drive them away. God's music, played on a harp by David, put demons to flight:

"Whenever an evil spirit came upon Saul, David would take his harp and play. Then relief would come to Saul; he would feel better, and the evil spirit would leave him" (1 Sam.16:23,

In a double prophecy about Tyre and Satan, God tells us through the prophet Ezekiel that Lucifer, before his fall, was originally designed by God as a living, thinking, musical instrument (Ezek.28:13). Satan knows how to make music that can conquer men's minds -- he has been doing it throughout the ages and has been doing it to great effect in the 20th century.

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Originally posted by becauseHElives:

And Satan's range is impressive. From violent rock music to soothing New Age music, the music of hell is upon the earth. Satan has trained up demon specialists in music who give music to their human followers. Some of the people who produce New Age music, for example, are not aware that demon spirits are secretly implanting this music in their minds. But many are aware and approve.

You that say you are saved…

What are you saved from?

How do you differ from the lost?

Not every one that says Lord, Lord will be saved.

If you still do and love the same things as the world, you are still lost in your sins!

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Its your opinion that Christian rap is wrong. If its glorifying God its not wrong.

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It can't help me, or anyone else, no spiritual benefit. People can't use the worldy methods to appeal to others.

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Originally posted by helpforhomeschoolers:
This is so important and I think that this goes back even to the beginnings of the Roman church. There is a tendency to think that we need to make God appealing to man.. We have to make Christianity attractive to the worldly tastes of men that they will accept it. Accept HIM. Whether it is music or a prosperity gospel or the worldly promises of name claim it WOF or whether it is churches that have to put on game nights or build gmynasiums to attract youth... this is all garbage. We do not need to entice people to believe or entice people to accept Christ or entice people to be Christians.. This is how we eneded up with all the paganism in the church, with easter egg hunts and such..

We must worship GOD.. serve GOD... love GOD for no other reason than that HE IS GOD and HE is worthy... HE alone is worthy of our worship. That does not require enticement with the worldly things... that requires repentance .... that requires the death of self.

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Originally posted by helpforhomeschoolers:
Brian, you are speaking of being moved by lyrics. Dale (if I understand his point and I think I do)was speaking of music..as oposed to lyrics and I know that I was speaking of music not lyrics... although lyrics of course can be good or bad. We were speaking of music.

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Originally posted by becauseHElives:
Hello Brian, look to the source of a thing to know its author.

Do you think tattooing of the body are something to be repented of, when the nature of Yeshua comes into the heart of a new creation?

Do you think piercing’s of the body are something to be repented of, when the nature of Yeshua comes into the heart of a new creation?

As you search the scriptures, as the Bible declares you must, if you desire eternal life, Yahweh will direct your heart.

Ignorance will be an excuse for some on judgment day, but for those who are just stubborn and un-teachable, ignorance will not be an excuse.

The heart of every issue is the issue of the heart!

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So what makes music holy and what makes it worldly?

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Brian said...

but I don't think the worldly equals sin

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Originally posted by becauseHElives:

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Brian said...

but I don't think the worldly equals sin

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the Scriptures say...

Jame 4:4 Do you not know that friendship with the world is enmity with Yahweh? Whoever therefore wants to be a friend of the world makes himself an enemy of Yahweh.

1Joh 2:15-17 Do not love the world or the things in the world. If anyone loves the world, the love of the Father is not in him. 16 For all that [is] in the world--the lust of the flesh, the lust of the eyes, and the pride of life--is not of the Father but is of the world. 17 And the world is passing away, and the lust of it; but he who does the will of Yahweh abides forever.

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These verses are speaking of having worldly desires, like greed, lust, and pride.

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That is exactly what “Rap Music” is and does.

The style of clothing, the cut of the hair (facial and on the head), the walk the talk, the body jesters are all pride of life. (look at me I’m cool)

“Rap Music” is a copy from a desire to be like the world.

If you don’t see that you are truly blind,

Remember there is more than one gospel being preached in the world.

2Cr 11:4
For if he that cometh preacheth another Jesus, whom we have not preached, or [if] ye receive another spirit, which ye have not received, or another gospel, which ye have not accepted, ye might well bear with [him].


But Yeshua only has one Gospel ….The message of the cross, death to self

“Rap Music” lifts up man and for that matter so does most of today’s so called Christian music.

But that Music which is acceptable to Yahweh, is music that lifts up Him and Him alone
 

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Posted by Jazzee (Member # 6040) on :
 
Hi Eden

But the issue is not christian or non christian music. It is that some people think that certain styles are of the Devil EVEN though the songs are christian/ christian lyrics.

My point is that there is no such thing as a particular christian style of music except from gregorian chants. And again one can discuss how christian it was to state that the use of certain note progressions ( the use of minor 3 for instance..and many more exclusions thats why it sounds like it does) were of the devil. I mean if God created all notes and musical sounds would it not be a sin to claim some of Gods notes to be of the devil?
 

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Posted by Jazzee (Member # 6040) on :
 
I am from Denmark by the way not Scotland
 

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Posted by Jazzee (Member # 6040) on :
 
Dale
I really am concerned about how judgemental you are.
Jesus speaks very clearly about that we as humans and especially christians should not condemn each other. You are very quick to point out who is a real christian in here and who is not. It is really not up to you to decide. It is strictly Gods business so, less condemnation please.We all love The Lord and communicate with Him.
 

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Posted by BrianGrass1234 (Member # 5845) on :
 

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Originally posted by becauseHElives:

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These verses are speaking of having worldly desires, like greed, lust, and pride.

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That is exactly what “Rap Music” is and does.

The style of clothing, the cut of the hair (facial and on the head), the walk the talk, the body jesters are all pride of life. (look at me I’m cool)

“Rap Music” is a copy from a desire to be like the world.

If you don’t see that you are truly blind,

Remember there is more than one gospel being preached in the world.

2Cr 11:4
For if he that cometh preacheth another Jesus, whom we have not preached, or [if] ye receive another spirit, which ye have not received, or another gospel, which ye have not accepted, ye might well bear with [him].


But Yeshua only has one Gospel ….The message of the cross, death to self

“Rap Music” lifts up man and for that matter so does most of today’s so called Christian music.

But that Music which is acceptable to Yahweh, is music that lifts up Him and Him alone

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Than you agree that it is the worldly desires of man that are sinful. And the only reason why your a saying rap music is sinful is because a portion of rap music's messages (I'll admit a large portion) is professing worldly desires and the culture surrounding most of those who make this music and listen to it is centered around worldly desires.

So does that mean that just because satan has been able to highjack a style of music that then ruins it for christians and now they can't enjoy it. That doesn't make any sense.

What if steel was originally forged to make daggers for pagan sacrifices. Then would that make my truck sinful because of the steel it is made out of. Would the food I cut with my steel kitchen knife then be sinful, and would I be sinning by using the steel knife.

How about gold, it is the poster child for greed and pride. Gold is horded as wealth and jewelry is made from it so people can show off how much money they have. Does that mean my gold wedding ring is sinful and I am sinning by wearing it. Is my computer sinful because some of circuits might have gold in them.

How about a Cadillac Escalade. When ever I see one rolling down the road with big chrome rims it think its just a sign that says "I'm richer than you are". And that is the reason that many buy them. but does that make that vehicle sinful, or is the person who is sinning by purchasing the SUV to show of their wealth. (I am not saying that everyone who owns and escalade is trying to show off)

I just can't see that because these things can be construed as worldly that them in itself is then sinful. It has to be the attitude and the manor in which these items are used that would be sinful.
 

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Posted by becauseHElives (Member # 87) on :
 
What a person does is different,

Than an inanimate object…

A car, a house, a watch, a ring could be, can be evil. It depends on how I use the object.

But a thing and a lifestyle or 2 different subjects.

You show me someone, anyone into “Rap Music” so called Christian are other wise and I show you a life that knows nothing at all about the crucified life, about taking up their cross and following Yeshua. I will show you an individual, that believes that their individual right are more important than the cause of Yeshua.

1Ti 2:9 In like manner also, that women adorn themselves in modest apparel, with shamefacedness and sobriety; not with broided hair, or gold, or pearls, or costly array;

1Pe 3:3 Whose adorning let it not be that outward [adorning] of plaiting the hair, and of wearing of gold, or of putting on of apparel;
 

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Posted by shadowmaker (Member # 3696) on :
 
The original question was CAN GOD USE RAP MUSIC? If you re telling me God cant, if he so choses, than we re not worshipping the same God. The God I worship can do ALL things.

Theres nothing wrong with having nice things. There s nothing wrong with having fun.

Time is running out and youre arguing that rap cant be used to spread the gospel. Like I said before, I ll use whatever avenue I need to use to spread the gospel. Rap isnt going to send me to hell, neither is a body piercing, a tattoo, a rock song, the clothes I wear, the car I drive. Jesus Christ paid for my sins and hes my Lord and Savior. Going to church isnt going to get me into heaven. If my Christian rap song is heard by 1000 people and one of those people comes to know Christ bc of it, well Praise God.

I get so sick of all the legalist rules that people use to justify something they like or dont like. Believe it or not but being a Christian can be and is fun. Remember the blood of Jesus saves us, not the rap song.
 

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Posted by becauseHElives (Member # 87) on :
 
If God (Yahweh) is able to do anything, that would include being able to do immoral things.

One thing that is specifically denied in the Scriptures, that is Yahweh can do no evil.

Though faith is above reason, there can never be any real discrepancy between faith and reason.

Since the same Yahweh who reveals mysteries and infuses faith has bestowed the light of reason on the human mind,

Yahweh cannot deny Himself.

Nor can truth ever contradict truth.

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The original question was CAN GOD USE RAP MUSIC? If you re telling me God cant, if he so choses, than we re not worshipping the same God. The God I worship can do ALL things

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Your right, we are probably not worshiping the same God.

I am worshiping a Holy God. The one and only True God and Father of all creation. God who commands that His children be separate from this world. Yahweh who writes His Laws upon the heart of those He is saving out of this world of darkness, making them abile to live acceptble inHis sight. (When you preach what Yeshua has commanded to teach and preach, you will be love or hated) There is no middle ground with Yahweh.

The church has been training adults and children to be adult children, never putting away childish things of this world.

Never teaching the message of the Cross,

Death to self, for the child of Yahweh.

Yahweh must increase, the So Called Christian decrease daily.
 

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Posted by shadowmaker (Member # 3696) on :
 
Everytime someone disagrees with you, you attack their faith.

You re simply very legalistic. You cant back any of it with scripture so you attack their faith. But thats ok, you cant damage mine. You judge people by their appearance, their clothes, what they drive, facial hair (now thats funny, guess my goatee is gonna send me to hell now ). God doesnt judge until you die, what gives you that right? You dont know whats in someones heart.
 

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Posted by Itty-Bitty Girl (Member # 4579) on :
 

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Originally posted by shadowmaker:
You dont know whats in someones heart.

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You re simply very legalistic.

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