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» Christian Message Boards   » Bible Studies   » Exposing False Teaching   » CAN GOD USE RAP MUSIC FOR HIMSELF? (Page 1)

 
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Author Topic: CAN GOD USE RAP MUSIC FOR HIMSELF?
becauseHElives
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I can’t judge anyone to Heaven or Hell.

I can judge actions and words as right or wrong.

quote:
You re simply very legalistic.
In the eyes of anyone that believes how a person conducts his/her life has nothing to do with their salvation, you are right, I am legalistic.

Jesus warned of a specific class of people who claimed to be His followers, who even performed great works and miracles in His name.
"But he shall say, I tell you, I know you not whence ye are; depart from me, all ye workers of iniquity" (Luke 13:27).
Who are these "workers of iniquity," whom Jesus rejects so plainly?
The Workers of inequity according to scripture that Yeshua is speaking about are the lawless one, those say that the moral law (the Ten Commandments) has been abolished.

When in actuality worker of iniquity, that Yeshua is referring to you worker of lawlessness.
I can’t judge anyone to Heaven or Hell.

I can judge actions and words as right or wrong.


quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
You re simply very legalistic.
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In the eyes of anyone that believes how a person conducts his/her life has nothing to do with their salvation, you are right, I am legalistic.

Jesus warned of a specific class of people who claimed to be His followers, who even performed great works and miracles in His name.
"But he shall say, I tell you, I know you not whence ye are; depart from me, all ye workers of iniquity" (Luke 13:27).
Who are these "workers of iniquity," whom Jesus rejects so plainly?
The Workers of inequity according to scripture that Yeshua is speaking about are the lawless one, those say that the moral law (the Ten Commandments) has been abolished.

When in actuality worker of iniquity, that Yeshua is referring to you worker of lawlessness.

The goat-tee is not something a child of Yahweh should have anything to do with. It is very easy to look up the origin of the goat-tee, and see the lack of understanding or the out right blatant rebellion of men in the church.

Yahweh one day will seperate the sheep frrom the goats. The word goat-tee is taken from the animal goat, the goat has one, man copies the nature of the goat.

I will this would be all but there is so much more but I need to go to bed

I am praying for you and I don't give up.

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Strive to enter in at the strait gate:for many, I say unto you will seek to enter in, and shall not be able. ( Luke 13:24 )

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Itty-Bitty Girl
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quote:
Originally posted by shadowmaker:
You dont know whats in someones heart.

That sounds familiar.

Dale is not judging hearts, he's helping people. All of the scripture that I saw being quoted by him has been used completely in context. And that is why I say goodbye to the rap game.

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shadowmaker
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Everytime someone disagrees with you, you attack their faith.

You re simply very legalistic. You cant back any of it with scripture so you attack their faith. But thats ok, you cant damage mine. You judge people by their appearance, their clothes, what they drive, facial hair (now thats funny, guess my goatee is gonna send me to hell now [Roll Eyes] ). God doesnt judge until you die, what gives you that right? You dont know whats in someones heart.

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becauseHElives
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If God (Yahweh) is able to do anything, that would include being able to do immoral things.

One thing that is specifically denied in the Scriptures, that is Yahweh can do no evil.

Though faith is above reason, there can never be any real discrepancy between faith and reason.

Since the same Yahweh who reveals mysteries and infuses faith has bestowed the light of reason on the human mind,

Yahweh cannot deny Himself.

Nor can truth ever contradict truth.

quote:
The original question was CAN GOD USE RAP MUSIC? If you re telling me God cant, if he so choses, than we re not worshipping the same God. The God I worship can do ALL things
Your right, we are probably not worshiping the same God.

I am worshiping a Holy God. The one and only True God and Father of all creation. God who commands that His children be separate from this world. Yahweh who writes His Laws upon the heart of those He is saving out of this world of darkness, making them abile to live acceptble inHis sight. (When you preach what Yeshua has commanded to teach and preach, you will be love or hated) There is no middle ground with Yahweh.

The church has been training adults and children to be adult children, never putting away childish things of this world.

Never teaching the message of the Cross,

Death to self, for the child of Yahweh.

Yahweh must increase, the So Called Christian decrease daily.

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Strive to enter in at the strait gate:for many, I say unto you will seek to enter in, and shall not be able. ( Luke 13:24 )

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shadowmaker
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The original question was CAN GOD USE RAP MUSIC? If you re telling me God cant, if he so choses, than we re not worshipping the same God. The God I worship can do ALL things.

Theres nothing wrong with having nice things. There s nothing wrong with having fun.

Time is running out and youre arguing that rap cant be used to spread the gospel. Like I said before, I ll use whatever avenue I need to use to spread the gospel. Rap isnt going to send me to hell, neither is a body piercing, a tattoo, a rock song, the clothes I wear, the car I drive. Jesus Christ paid for my sins and hes my Lord and Savior. Going to church isnt going to get me into heaven. If my Christian rap song is heard by 1000 people and one of those people comes to know Christ bc of it, well Praise God. [clap2]

I get so sick of all the legalist rules that people use to justify something they like or dont like. Believe it or not but being a Christian can be and is fun. Remember the blood of Jesus saves us, not the rap song.

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becauseHElives
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What a person does is different,

Than an inanimate object…

A car, a house, a watch, a ring could be, can be evil. It depends on how I use the object.

But a thing and a lifestyle or 2 different subjects.

You show me someone, anyone into “Rap Music” so called Christian are other wise and I show you a life that knows nothing at all about the crucified life, about taking up their cross and following Yeshua. I will show you an individual, that believes that their individual right are more important than the cause of Yeshua.

1Ti 2:9 In like manner also, that women adorn themselves in modest apparel, with shamefacedness and sobriety; not with broided hair, or gold, or pearls, or costly array;

1Pe 3:3 Whose adorning let it not be that outward [adorning] of plaiting the hair, and of wearing of gold, or of putting on of apparel;

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Strive to enter in at the strait gate:for many, I say unto you will seek to enter in, and shall not be able. ( Luke 13:24 )

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BrianGrass1234
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quote:
Originally posted by becauseHElives:
quote:
These verses are speaking of having worldly desires, like greed, lust, and pride.
That is exactly what “Rap Music” is and does.

The style of clothing, the cut of the hair (facial and on the head), the walk the talk, the body jesters are all pride of life. (look at me I’m cool)

“Rap Music” is a copy from a desire to be like the world.

If you don’t see that you are truly blind,

Remember there is more than one gospel being preached in the world.

2Cr 11:4
For if he that cometh preacheth another Jesus, whom we have not preached, or [if] ye receive another spirit, which ye have not received, or another gospel, which ye have not accepted, ye might well bear with [him].


But Yeshua only has one Gospel ….The message of the cross, death to self

“Rap Music” lifts up man and for that matter so does most of today’s so called Christian music.

But that Music which is acceptable to Yahweh, is music that lifts up Him and Him alone

Than you agree that it is the worldly desires of man that are sinful. And the only reason why your a saying rap music is sinful is because a portion of rap music's messages (I'll admit a large portion) is professing worldly desires and the culture surrounding most of those who make this music and listen to it is centered around worldly desires.

So does that mean that just because satan has been able to highjack a style of music that then ruins it for christians and now they can't enjoy it. That doesn't make any sense.

What if steel was originally forged to make daggers for pagan sacrifices. Then would that make my truck sinful because of the steel it is made out of. Would the food I cut with my steel kitchen knife then be sinful, and would I be sinning by using the steel knife.

How about gold, it is the poster child for greed and pride. Gold is horded as wealth and jewelry is made from it so people can show off how much money they have. Does that mean my gold wedding ring is sinful and I am sinning by wearing it. Is my computer sinful because some of circuits might have gold in them.

How about a Cadillac Escalade. When ever I see one rolling down the road with big chrome rims it think its just a sign that says "I'm richer than you are". And that is the reason that many buy them. but does that make that vehicle sinful, or is the person who is sinning by purchasing the SUV to show of their wealth. (I am not saying that everyone who owns and escalade is trying to show off)

I just can't see that because these things can be construed as worldly that them in itself is then sinful. It has to be the attitude and the manor in which these items are used that would be sinful.

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Jazzee
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Dale
I really am concerned about how judgemental you are.
Jesus speaks very clearly about that we as humans and especially christians should not condemn each other. You are very quick to point out who is a real christian in here and who is not. It is really not up to you to decide. It is strictly Gods business so, less condemnation please.We all love The Lord and communicate with Him.

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all things are possible for she who believes in the Lord

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Jazzee
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I am from Denmark by the way [Smile] not Scotland

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all things are possible for she who believes in the Lord

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Jazzee
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Hi Eden

But the issue is not christian or non christian music. It is that some people think that certain styles are of the Devil EVEN though the songs are christian/ christian lyrics.

My point is that there is no such thing as a particular christian style of music except from gregorian chants. And again one can discuss how christian it was to state that the use of certain note progressions ( the use of minor 3 for instance..and many more exclusions thats why it sounds like it does) were of the devil. I mean if God created all notes and musical sounds would it not be a sin to claim some of Gods notes to be of the devil?

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all things are possible for she who believes in the Lord

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becauseHElives
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quote:
These verses are speaking of having worldly desires, like greed, lust, and pride.
That is exactly what “Rap Music” is and does.

The style of clothing, the cut of the hair (facial and on the head), the walk the talk, the body jesters are all pride of life. (look at me I’m cool)

“Rap Music” is a copy from a desire to be like the world.

If you don’t see that you are truly blind,

Remember there is more than one gospel being preached in the world.

2Cr 11:4
For if he that cometh preacheth another Jesus, whom we have not preached, or [if] ye receive another spirit, which ye have not received, or another gospel, which ye have not accepted, ye might well bear with [him].


But Yeshua only has one Gospel ….The message of the cross, death to self

“Rap Music” lifts up man and for that matter so does most of today’s so called Christian music.

But that Music which is acceptable to Yahweh, is music that lifts up Him and Him alone

--------------------
Strive to enter in at the strait gate:for many, I say unto you will seek to enter in, and shall not be able. ( Luke 13:24 )

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BrianGrass1234
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quote:
Originally posted by becauseHElives:
quote:
Brian said...

but I don't think the worldly equals sin

the Scriptures say...

Jame 4:4 Do you not know that friendship with the world is enmity with Yahweh? Whoever therefore wants to be a friend of the world makes himself an enemy of Yahweh.

1Joh 2:15-17 Do not love the world or the things in the world. If anyone loves the world, the love of the Father is not in him. 16 For all that [is] in the world--the lust of the flesh, the lust of the eyes, and the pride of life--is not of the Father but is of the world. 17 And the world is passing away, and the lust of it; but he who does the will of Yahweh abides forever.

These verses are speaking of having worldly desires, like greed, lust, and pride. And that if you are driven by these worldly desires you are being led by the world not God. This doesn't mean that the things of this world is evil, but its the sinful desires of the world that is what we need to be careful of. Look at the other verses in the Bible where it uses "wordly" and I imagine you will find that it is refering to our own desires being like those of the world and not refering to some general referance to items of the world.

Thats why we need to test what we do and what we expose ourselves to against the Word to make sure that we are not allowing ourselves to be affected in such a way that causes us to start desiring the things of the world rather than the things of heaven.

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becauseHElives
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quote:
Brian said...

but I don't think the worldly equals sin

the Scriptures say...

Jame 4:4 Do you not know that friendship with the world is enmity with Yahweh? Whoever therefore wants to be a friend of the world makes himself an enemy of Yahweh.

1Joh 2:15-17 Do not love the world or the things in the world. If anyone loves the world, the love of the Father is not in him. 16 For all that [is] in the world--the lust of the flesh, the lust of the eyes, and the pride of life--is not of the Father but is of the world. 17 And the world is passing away, and the lust of it; but he who does the will of Yahweh abides forever.

--------------------
Strive to enter in at the strait gate:for many, I say unto you will seek to enter in, and shall not be able. ( Luke 13:24 )

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Eden
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But, to reiterate, especially to becauseHElives who likes to think that we are capable of "cleaning our righteouss up", God can even use rap to save people, provided that every word of the gospel rap song is understandable and provided that the gospel message is preached, according to the Bible.

Beyond that, I don't think that God gives a toodleliequat in what rhythm the truth is being presented. It is the Word that the messenger brings which saves, not the messenger.

Be blessed.

Eden

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Eden
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Hi, Jazzee. You said,
______________________
However to me, music like jazz, rock etc is beautiful music not noise. I am sure if it messed with my blood chemistry real bad I could feel it.
____________________

Eden here:

Hi, Jazzee, from Scotland, was it? Nice to meet you. I do think that total immersion in Jesus Christ with our choice of Christian-only music and Christian-only books, does have a more total effect similar to immersion or baptism (and he or she came up speaking a new language and praising God).

There is a price to pay to our spirit whenever we allow the soul to have some more ascendancy over the spirit. It is done all the time, even by bornagain Christians, but there is a price to pay.

Be blessed.

Eden

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BrianGrass1234
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Maybe this is were I'm missing things, but I don't think the worldly equals sin. Like my example before, the sacrificed meat was a worldly item, yet it was not the worldly item that was sinful, but the causing of another to stumble, or personal defiance to eat it when you believe it is sinful. Those were the sinful acts, not the eating of the food itself.

Take the clothes we wear, the jobs we work, the cars we drive, the books we read, the internet I'm using right now. Much of those things are worldly, yet they are not in themselves sinful. It is how we use them and how they affect us personally or how us using them affect others that can be sinful or not. I'm saying music falls in with these.

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TB125
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quote:
So what makes music holy and what makes it worldly?
This is a very basic question in a challenging thread and topic.

In an effort to answer it, I would ask this question: is there a difference between music that makes one tap his/her toes and music that leads one to grind his/her pelvis?

I recognize that the answer may be somewhat determined by one's culture, crowd of friends, and personal pursuits, but these factors are what marks in some basic ways the difference between being "in the world" and not being "of the world", of being "worldly" or "holy".

Another helpful question in regard to this matter is this: what kind of mood, level of joy, or godly experience does the music create?

God is very particular about how people worship Him and what they bring to him as sacrifice (see Genesis 4:2-7). Animals that were to be sacrificed as an offering "to the Lord" were to be "without defect" (Leviticus 1:3), and subsequent verses of Scripture give the detailed instructions regarding how sacrifices were to be prepared and handled.

God is not pleased with a casual entrance into his presence. When He attracted Moses to His presence in a "burning bush" in order to commission him to deliver His enslaved people in Egypt, He told Moses to "Take off your sandals, for the place you are standing is holy ground" (Exodus 3:5).

So part of the answer to this question as to whether music is "holy" or "worldly" may be heard in the perception as to "where" it places you: in the presence of the Holy God or in the presence of Satan, whom Jesus referred to as "the prince of this world" (see John 12:31, 14:30, 16:11).

The value of many things in this world is best determined by the degree to which it glorifies God, by the degree to which it produces the "fruit" of the Spirit, God's Holy Spirit.

Jesus taught this standard in regard to the evaluation of "prophets" (Matthew 7:15-20). I think that it might also be applied to musicians and their music.

--------------------
Bob

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helpforhomeschoolers
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Brian, I agree with you that there are somethings that are not specific in the Bible that one man can do in faith and another cannot and for one it is sin and for the other it is not. But what of the example you just gave? Would it be ok for you to sacrifice the meat to idols yourself. Of course not!You can eat the meat sacrificed to idols by someone who is heathen, so as not to offend them, but surely you agree you could not sacrifice meat to idols youself.

I can go into a listen to worldly music in the home or car for instance of an unsaved aquaintance, so as not to offend them. We cannot expect the worldly to be GODly, but does that mean it is ok for me to desire things that are worldly? I dont think so.

You asked how do we know.. who says what is ok and what is not? Good question!

Maybe that is really what we should discuss. What makes Christian Music to be different/seperate from the world's music. What makes one music holy and another unholy? I have some thoughts on this, but I would like to hear yours. I would also like to hear yours Dale. I think that you and I would agree that there is classical music that is not holy. Though it is certaily music. I remember being in college and taking a music appreciation class that studied the Baroque period. I recall a pice of music that was fantastic from the point of being quality music, and there were no words, but to this day I can tell you that that piece of music at its core was evil. I cant now remember the name of the piece, but I remember the spirit of the music that was present and it was not holy and I was not walking with the Lord at that time I was in rebellion, but I knew that music was not Holy even at the time.

Rap and some of the Screamo and Metal that is out there I think that you could even debate whether or not it was music, but what makes musick holy or unholy?

There are several issues here I think.

I was thinking this morning.. Metalica.. Metalica in my opinion are talented musicians. They have recorded some of the most beautiful ballads your ears could hear. It is truly music. But has Metalica ever produced anything holy? I think not.

So what makes music holy and what makes it worldly?

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BrianGrass1234
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quote:
Originally posted by becauseHElives:
Hello Brian, look to the source of a thing to know its author.

Do you think tattooing of the body are something to be repented of, when the nature of Yeshua comes into the heart of a new creation?

Do you think piercing’s of the body are something to be repented of, when the nature of Yeshua comes into the heart of a new creation?

As you search the scriptures, as the Bible declares you must, if you desire eternal life, Yahweh will direct your heart.

Ignorance will be an excuse for some on judgment day, but for those who are just stubborn and un-teachable, ignorance will not be an excuse.

The heart of every issue is the issue of the heart!

Tattoos is a separate argument, but I will go with you on that one. Piercings on the other hand is fine in the Bible, God even gives Isreal (figuratively) a nose ring and earrings (Ezekial 16).

But Ludamizleeto isn't trying to become a tatoo artist. Were does the bible talk about music in any negative manor. I can't recall off the top of my head maybe you can tell me were I'm missing it.

As far as something being sinful because of its origins. The Bible does address that. Check out 1 Corinthians 8. It follows the advice given in the scripture it talked about earlier in Romans 14, but that was just refering to meat, which comes from God in the first place. However in this scripture it is food that had been sacrificed to Idols. The writer says that the food itself is not sinful, but if it causes the weaker brother to sin you should stay away from it.

Although I don't think it was fair to label those who thought sacrificed foods as weaker, they just had a different opinion of what God wants than the other.

So It would be wrong to play rap around you and it would be wrong for you to listen or create rap music. But it is not the music itself that is sinful, but the causing of another to stumble or doing something that you believe is against God's will that is the sinful act.

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becauseHElives
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Hello Brian, look to the source of a thing to know its author.

Do you think tattooing of the body are something to be repented of, when the nature of Yeshua comes into the heart of a new creation?

Do you think piercing’s of the body are something to be repented of, when the nature of Yeshua comes into the heart of a new creation?

As you search the scriptures, as the Bible declares you must, if you desire eternal life, Yahweh will direct your heart.

Ignorance will be an excuse for some on judgment day, but for those who are just stubborn and un-teachable, ignorance will not be an excuse.

The heart of every issue is the issue of the heart!

--------------------
Strive to enter in at the strait gate:for many, I say unto you will seek to enter in, and shall not be able. ( Luke 13:24 )

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BrianGrass1234
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So tell me whats OK.

I'm missing that part of the bible where it dictates what styles of music, what sequence of notes, what beat patterns are of satan and that I should stay away from.

Any verse that refers to not being of the world, or not being profitable, or not baring fruit quoted does not fit the bill. Who are you to determine for me whats of the world or whats of God, who are you to say what might be profitable and bring fourth good fruit in someone elses lives.

By you using God's word to justify your personal ideals, when what you are pushing is something that every person has to decide on there own, and is not spelled out in the bible, you may be holding this person back from music that God was going to use to speak to that person.

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BrianGrass1234
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quote:
Originally posted by helpforhomeschoolers:
Brian, you are speaking of being moved by lyrics. Dale (if I understand his point and I think I do)was speaking of music..as oposed to lyrics and I know that I was speaking of music not lyrics... although lyrics of course can be good or bad. We were speaking of music.

I was specifically talking about the music. Not the lyrics. Another form of music would not have had the same power there song had and the lyrics would not have had the same effect.
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Itty-Bitty Girl
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quote:
Originally posted by helpforhomeschoolers:
This is so important and I think that this goes back even to the beginnings of the Roman church. There is a tendency to think that we need to make God appealing to man.. We have to make Christianity attractive to the worldly tastes of men that they will accept it. Accept HIM. Whether it is music or a prosperity gospel or the worldly promises of name claim it WOF or whether it is churches that have to put on game nights or build gmynasiums to attract youth... this is all garbage. We do not need to entice people to believe or entice people to accept Christ or entice people to be Christians.. This is how we eneded up with all the paganism in the church, with easter egg hunts and such..

We must worship GOD.. serve GOD... love GOD for no other reason than that HE IS GOD and HE is worthy... HE alone is worthy of our worship. That does not require enticement with the worldly things... that requires repentance .... that requires the death of self.

That was real deep, Linda! Amen to that. Very well said.
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helpforhomeschoolers
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Rose: I loved this:

quote:
It can't help me, or anyone else, no spiritual benefit. People can't use the worldy methods to appeal to others.

This is so important and I think that this goes back even to the beginnings of the Roman church. There is a tendency to think that we need to make God appealing to man.. We have to make Christianity attractive to the worldly tastes of men that they will accept it. Accept HIM. Whether it is music or a prosperity gospel or the worldly promises of name claim it WOF or whether it is churches that have to put on game nights or build gmynasiums to attract youth... this is all garbage. We do not need to entice people to believe or entice people to accept Christ or entice people to be Christians.. This is how we eneded up with all the paganism in the church, with easter egg hunts and such..

We must worship GOD.. serve GOD... love GOD for no other reason than that HE IS GOD and HE is worthy... HE alone is worthy of our worship. That does not require enticement with the worldly things... that requires repentance .... that requires the death of self.

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helpforhomeschoolers
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Brian, you are speaking of being moved by lyrics. Dale (if I understand his point and I think I do)was speaking of music..as oposed to lyrics and I know that I was speaking of music not lyrics... although lyrics of course can be good or bad. We were speaking of music.

**************************************************

To the group:

I would like someone to please show me where in the Bible it teaches that men lead people to Christ, win people to Christ, or where music leads or wins people to Christ.

I believe that the Bible say that none comes to Christ lest the FAther... not men, but the FATHER, draws them; I believe that the Bible teaches that if Christ is lifted up HE will draw men... but no where that I am aware of does the Bible teach that we lead or win people to Christ.

Further, the Bible teaches that it is the WORD OF GOD that is the power unto salvation... not music. I am not aware of any of the apostles using music to preach Christ. I dont believe that anywhere in the Bible it shows that Jesus used music to preach or teach the Kingdom.

Further, Jesus said it is the WORD of GOD that man lives by... EVERY word that proceedth from the Father.

Lastly, this thinking does not either stand the test of scripture:

quote:
Its your opinion that Christian rap is wrong. If its glorifying God its not wrong.

The Bible very clearly teaches that it is not enough to honor God but that we must honor God HIS way and if you dont believe that then perhaps you might read about Cain's sacrifice.


**************************************************
Dale: Amen, I thought your last post was excellent.

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Itty-Bitty Girl
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quote:
Originally posted by becauseHElives:

I am specifically referring to mixture of this world and the things of this world.

You that approve of Rap Music and Rock Music are blind leaders of the blind; I pray you may find a place to repent before it is to late.

As any music expert will tell you, the beat, tone, cadence and arrangement of music affects human moods. Lyrics, or words, play only a minimal rôle. Even instrumental music can make you feel blue, moody and depressed, or zippy, peppy and upbeat. It can inspire you or drag you down.

I'll have to agree with you there.

quote:
Originally posted by becauseHElives:

Music can invite in demons -- as sorcerers, shamans and witchdoctors well know -- or drive them away. God's music, played on a harp by David, put demons to flight:

"Whenever an evil spirit came upon Saul, David would take his harp and play. Then relief would come to Saul; he would feel better, and the evil spirit would leave him" (1 Sam.16:23,

In a double prophecy about Tyre and Satan, God tells us through the prophet Ezekiel that Lucifer, before his fall, was originally designed by God as a living, thinking, musical instrument (Ezek.28:13). Satan knows how to make music that can conquer men's minds -- he has been doing it throughout the ages and has been doing it to great effect in the 20th century.

You know, Dale, you are starting to make more and more sense by the minute. You see, just moments ago in the living room on the computer, my sister was playing some disgusting music video on the television, it would corrupt my thoughts, I did not want to see or hear it, so I escaped by listening to this beautiful song in my headphones as I read your post. I was playing the Vickie Winans version of "We shall behold Him." It is so beautifully sung. I believe that harps are also used in the song. I like peaceful music like this. It is more of a benefit to my mind. I felt calm. My mind felt clensed. I believe that my thoughts were just clear enough to understand what you are saying.

quote:
Originally posted by becauseHElives:

And Satan's range is impressive. From violent rock music to soothing New Age music, the music of hell is upon the earth. Satan has trained up demon specialists in music who give music to their human followers. Some of the people who produce New Age music, for example, are not aware that demon spirits are secretly implanting this music in their minds. But many are aware and approve.

You that say you are saved…

What are you saved from?

How do you differ from the lost?

Not every one that says Lord, Lord will be saved.

If you still do and love the same things as the world, you are still lost in your sins!

You know, I used to like rap, now I say that I don't any more. I hate the things of the world, which is why I decided to give it up, cast it all down. I did not want to do it at first. I was so reluctant, but not anymore.

It can't help me, or anyone else, no spiritual benefit. People can't use the worldy methods to appeal to others.

I'M SAYING GOODBYE TO THE RAP GAME, final answer.

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becauseHElives
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quote:
Post scriptum: Satan is incapable of creating something God already created, which is music and all the notes and sounds in the world.
he ( Satan) only takes what is Gods and twists it. Just like he does with sex and all other things. Satan is trying to take the honor for having created sex. Most non Christians believe it. He also tries to claim most of the music in this world. Well he can't. We are taking it back back.

you say "understand Yahweh hates mixture" what DO you mean by that!! Mixture in general or what

I am specifically referring to mixture of this world and the things of this world.

You that approve of Rap Music and Rock Music are blind leaders of the blind; I pray you may find a place to repent before it is to late.

As any music expert will tell you, the beat, tone, cadence and arrangement of music affects human moods. Lyrics, or words, play only a minimal rôle. Even instrumental music can make you feel blue, moody and depressed, or zippy, peppy and upbeat. It can inspire you or drag you down.

Music can invite in demons -- as sorcerers, shamans and witchdoctors well know -- or drive them away. God's music, played on a harp by David, put demons to flight:

"Whenever an evil spirit came upon Saul, David would take his harp and play. Then relief would come to Saul; he would feel better, and the evil spirit would leave him" (1 Sam.16:23,

In a double prophecy about Tyre and Satan, God tells us through the prophet Ezekiel that Lucifer, before his fall, was originally designed by God as a living, thinking, musical instrument (Ezek.28:13). Satan knows how to make music that can conquer men's minds -- he has been doing it throughout the ages and has been doing it to great effect in the 20th century.
And Satan's range is impressive. From violent rock music to soothing New Age music, the music of hell is upon the earth. Satan has trained up demon specialists in music who give music to their human followers. Some of the people who produce New Age music, for example, are not aware that demon spirits are secretly implanting this music in their minds. But many are aware and approve.

You that say you are saved…

What are you saved from?

How do you differ from the lost?

Not every one that says Lord, Lord will be saved.

If you still do and love the same things as the world, you are still lost in your sins!

--------------------
Strive to enter in at the strait gate:for many, I say unto you will seek to enter in, and shall not be able. ( Luke 13:24 )

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EL3LN3TN
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quote:
Originally posted by Caretaker:
http://www.is-masaru-emoto-for-real.com/

For instance, the crystal below on the left was observed in a sample of distilled water that had been played Beethoven’s 5th Symphony, and the crystal on the right was observed in a sample of distilled water that had been played so-called “heavy metal” music (Emoto, Messages 17).

I  -

No, I was'nt really intending to "make fun" of anybody, and I really am not familiar with this Dr. Emoto.....

HOWEVER...from the weblink cited comes the following bytes:
"Dr. Emoto’s procedure for photographing crystals has no controlled means of ensuring that experimenter’s bias is prevented or minimized."

"While it is possible that he did, in fact, discover that water has an observable sensitivity to external stimuli such as prayer and words, Dr. Emoto’s experimental design and clinical procedures do not prove the claim. A double blind procedure in which a photographer would not know what water sample he or she was photographing would make the claim considerably more credible."

"Emoto’s procedure, while simple and direct, does not eliminate numerous possible sources of error."

"As Dr. Emoto has not published the entirety of his photographs, it is unknown if he ruled out or ignored crystals that did not support his hypothesis."

While Emoto has published his claim in one peer reviewed journal, it has neither been substantiated nor disproved by research scientists. It is worth noting that Emoto’s Journal article is not a scientific report, but a three page long 'photo essay.' "


...which does support some skepticism concerning this.

My main point being that intentionally-made "musical" frequencies and musical genres are only secondary factors in the results shown.

Any combination of "non-musical" sound frequencies could be made to produce the same result.

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Jazzee
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caretaker
I do not know if you adress me, but I have been a born again christian for 20 years.
I have no problems with seeking The Lord and His guidance. In fact I believe strongly that each person should do that individually. I am a proffessional musician and God has never told me that I could only listen to certain styles of music.
I also believe we have to be VERY careful not to judge others, especially based on things that are not clearly stated in The Bible. The Bible does not tell us what style of music to listen to. It does not tell us that it is wrong to enjoy music and art for the sake of enjoying it. As long as it is good and not evil. God gave us tastebuds so that we can enjoy our food. Something that is totally unnesseccary for eating and staying alive. He made us enjoy reproduction something that is absolutely unneccessary for reproducing. He even made it so we can make love with our spouse even when we are not reproducing, only to enjoy it and bond with our loved one. He made us not only able to hear for the sake of surviving and communicating but also to enjoy music. He gave us beautiful colors. He made the World full of beautiful things for us to enjoy. God likes when we enjoy what He has created for us.It is not sinful to enjoy. It does not mean that we do not give glory to Christ. To suggest that people with different opinions are less christians is arrogant. It would be something else if we were speaking against The fundaments on which our faith stands!

God calls us in different ares. Some things may not be good for you for some reasons. It does not mean they are not good for me. God may tell you not to eat certain foods for some reason. That does not mean I can't.

the word rock'n'roll was first used about the music when DJ Alan Freed, at a Fats Domino concert, looked at the crowd and said: "look at all these people rockin and rollin". Before the style was called jump blues or New Orleans rhytm and blues. BTW my husband ( who is an african american tells me that he has never heard the word rock'n'roll used as a slang for sexual intercourse. Maybe it has, but he has never heard it ( he is 40 btw)

--------------------
all things are possible for she who believes in the Lord

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Jazzee
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Brian Grass I feel the same..especially about little bitty girl. Who knows if God actually had some plans for her using the music she likes to win others for Christ?

.. as I said before, if your reason for not listening to rock is that it derives from worldliness, then you actually can't listen to any music at all. Even the so called "christian styles" derived from worldly music at some point.
Music is music. And even if there is such a thing as a physical effect like homescholer suggested...which there can be.. maybe we all need various "soundtreatments" at different times, since we all react differently to music.
Please do not condemn or judge others based on such a little thing as different taste! [Frown]

btw I too am a proffessional musician

--------------------
all things are possible for she who believes in the Lord

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BrianGrass1234
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Those who oppose wrap or rock or whatever kind of music need to go check out a punk band named Dogwood. I'd give you the link but there site is down. Anyway I can be listening to the All hands on Deck song and it makes me cry. No other music can touch me like that. If someone would have told those guys when they were kids that punk is evil. Then God wouldn't have been able to touch me through that song like he does every time. And its because of the way the truth is being spoken to me and how it reminds me of God's word when I hear it.
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BrianGrass1234
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The arguments for rap music, or any other kind of music being evil are all make no sense.

Music, art, dance, poetry, movies, books, speakers, any source of information or expression isn't in itself evil. Its how you respond to it individually that defines the right and wrong.

Its like beer. A little is fine and too much is not. God doesn't like drunkeness because the alcohol is now controlling us. And it may take a lot more beer to get me drunk than you and if your going to have some you need to know you limits and how it affects you. Its the same with everything. You need to know how certain things affect you and when they are affecting you in a negative mannor.

Thats why God says to test all things against his Word and you need to sort it out for yourself and yourself alone. You have no business telling someone their style of music is wrong, when It may be that type of music that may lead them to christ, or allow them to get to know others that they could lead to christ and the music is the catalyst.

It really bugged me to read Itty-Bitty Girl talk about not listening to rap because of some immoral activities individuals associated with the music. Its about how the music affects you and you need to sort that out on your own. But for her to be discuraged could cause her to not have the joy that music caused her, or could make her miss oppertunities to share christ that a common enjoyment in that type of music could bring.

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Caretaker
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http://www.is-masaru-emoto-for-real.com/

For instance, the crystal below on the left was observed in a sample of distilled water that had been played Beethoven’s 5th Symphony, and the crystal on the right was observed in a sample of distilled water that had been played so-called “heavy metal” music (Emoto, Messages 17).

I  -

--------------------
A Servant of Christ,
Drew

1 Tim. 3:
16: And without controversy great is the mystery of godliness: God was manifest in the flesh..

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helpforhomeschoolers
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I have been for some time trying to find the source that I got them from. I found them a couple of years ago while helping my daughter (a music student) on a term paper about the use of music in medicine for therapy. I had thought that the pictures were gone, but recently I found them in some stuff I archived onto CD's. I am not sure I still have the information on the source. I was searching the ERIC Digest a lot for that paper, so I will try to find some time to look there. Last year, we lost the computer hard drive that the actual paper she wrote was done on, so I cant go back there.

You may think that this is nuts or new age or what ever you like and make fun of me all that you want, but my interest in this did not begin from a point of religious thinking or as some would term legalism. My interest in this began because I live in a family of musicians, and one of them is a college student and because I am interested in the functioning of the human body at the cellular level and because I like all kinds of music and am interested in the affects of music on the body and its use in medicine and as I began to look into this it occurs to me that not all sound is good for the human body and if that is so then this is by GOD's design and it must be that he has some interest in what we listen to. Do you know what language sounded like at the time of Babel? non of us does.. is it really far fetched to think that it might sound musical? Do not today the language of animals.. like dolphins for example have musical quality? Of course this is conjecture or speculation, but it is not totally out of no where, and it is a fact that you can alter human mood and emotion at a cellular and chemical level irrespective of likes or taste in music. You can alter brain wave patterns with music. So make fun all you want but I will continue to believe that what we hear can both help and harm us.

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quote:
Originally posted by helpforhomeschoolers:
[QB] This is a photo of an ice crystal frozen in the presence of Baach....

 -

this is a picture of an ice crystal frozen in the presence of heavy metal rock & roll music....

 -

I don't think it's derailing this thread to request where you got this info from & where/whom did the "research"?? [Eek!]

..and what exactly the environmental conditions "in the presence of"...a certain type of music would be??? Just wondering, really. [Roll Eyes]

If it's what I'd think - ANY type of generated vibration would have some effect on crystallization if it were contacted w/ freezing water - whether it was "musically generated" or not is really beside the point.

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quote:
“Sound is wave phenomenon. Sound waves are readily transmitted through water. The human body is some 90 something precent water."
At best 50-65 percent water

quote:
"....Sound affects the human body. It can affect the human body in a positive way or a negative way. The blood chemistry of humans can be altered by sound. This is why sound therapy is used to treat a range of illnesses. Sound can raise or lower heart rate and blood pressure. Sound can effect mood physically by altering blood chemistry.”.......

“…music is wavelengths and I do think that God Yehovah and Lord Jesus have a taste for a "certain wavelength", and God/Jesus probably look for that sweet Holy Spirit wavelength mixed in with natural, yes, but unmistakably Holy Spirit wavelength.”

Oops!! ...I think we may have wandered into the New Age music bin w/ some of this!<lol> [cool_shades]
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Caretaker
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Romans 8:29
For whom he did foreknow, he also did predestinate to be conformed to the image of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brethren.

Romans 12:2
And be not conformed to this world: but be ye transformed by the renewing of your mind, that ye may prove what is that good, and acceptable, and perfect, will of God.


God bless you;

I come from the time of Rock's emergence from R&B and C&W, with: Muddy Waters, Howlin' Wolf, Chuck Berry, Bo Diddley, Buddy Holley, Jerry Lee Lewis, Elvis, Bill Haley and the Comets, The Righteous Brothers, Jan and Dean, the Beach Boys, the Beatles, the Stones, Bob Dylan, Pete Segar, Arlo Guthrie, Led Zepplen, ZZ Top, 3 Dog Night, etc.

At one time I "rocked around the clock", but found that I could "get no satisfaction" at "alice's restaurant", and that "unchained melody" had shackles.


The term "Rock and Roll", was originally black slang for sexual intercourse, and the music elicits strongly heated emotions.


Sanctification is a process. When one truly comes to Christ, then He indwells our hearts and begins to reshape our lives to conform to His image. The more we yeild to the Lordship of Jesus, the more He can mold and make us after His Will and express purpose.

When we lose ourselves in the sensual melodies and overwhelming emotional rhythm of the music, the less our hearts are focused on Christ and we are neither praying without ceasing, nor are our hearts glorifying Him. We take away from Him to focus on secular satisfaction. We fall far short of the Glory of God.

I will have been kickin-with-Christ for 30 years next April, and His refining is still going-on. Just allow Him to move in your heart and life, and yeild to His guidance. Seek to be in the world but not of the world.

May God so bless your walk with Him, and may He lead you upon the pathways of His perfect will and eternal love for His precious children.

--------------------
A Servant of Christ,
Drew

1 Tim. 3:
16: And without controversy great is the mystery of godliness: God was manifest in the flesh..

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Jazzee
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Hi Eden

No I don't believe there is such a thing as a Holy wavelenght because The Bible does not mention that.
God looks to the heart. You or I do not nesseccarily know what is in the heart of the christian Rap/rock/jazz/etc artist who is praising God and I don't believe it is right to be judging things that only God can judge.
Our tastes differ. This is how we are as human beings.
The Bible talks about making a joyful noise. What a joyful noise is, is probably different for you than it is for me.
I believe God listenes to EVERYTHING that is going on and to EVERYONE including Justin Timberlake. I believe God listens for different reasons than us. He may listen to what is going on in the heart of Justin Timberlake since He loves him just as much as He loves you and me.
But anyway...the talk is about different styles in christian music, so bringing Justin Timberlake in there is a whole other subject.

--------------------
all things are possible for she who believes in the Lord

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hi, Jazzee, music is wavelengths and I do think that God Yehovah and Lord Jesus have a taste for a "certain wavelength", and God/Jesus probably look for that sweet Holy Spirit wavelength mixed in with natural, yes, but unmistakably Holy Spirit wavelength.

So I don't think that God just likes "any kind of music beat or rhythm"; I know I love to sing about my Savior in a sweet tone, so anything overly repititive like the rap wavelength, God/Jesus probably are also into variety of melody, and I'll bet God/Jesus like musical scales. I think God likes kind and gentle music that praises Him, don't you?

I don't think that God/Jesus are listening to Justin Timberlake, for example, in heaven, do you?

Be blessed.

Eden

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Jazzee
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and WHO is to descide what the right arranging of notes are? Do you think God says "Oh I like when you play C, A and G major but I absolutely hate if you play minor E, especially if followed by C major 7!! ).
Can't you see how silly that sounds. Taste is something we humans have. God is different.You say we are to abandon everything that has to do with culture. How on Earth will you do that?. Everything is cultural..including the music YOU have descided is pleasing to GOD and you. Let God Himself descide what music He wants to listen to. God does not neccessarily share your limited taste. God looks to the hearts, not the musical arrangement!
Can you find a music form that has not derived from an eartly culture I will eat my words again.

--------------------
all things are possible for she who believes in the Lord

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freddy05
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quote:
Originally posted by becauseHElives:

Good and evil can not come out of the same vessel.

Really??? Through God, all things are possible, no?

Remember David? Affairs, murder... sounds pretty evil... But God used him for good as well.

Peter... denied Christ straight up 3 times. Quite evil. But then again, did God use Peter?

Radio, TV, Internet... lots of evil... but has God used them? You bet! Some areas of the world that are off limits to missionaries are being reached 24/7 by radio and TV broad casts!

How about Mel Gibson? Sounds like he´s said some pretty weird things recently... and his beliefs seem a bit out there as well. But has God been able to use him? (hint: remember that movie The Passion? Think God used that at all??)

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Jazzee
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--------------------
Rebellion is a refusal to accept authority right.
The Authority we as christians are to obey is GODS authority. There are many authorities in the world some good some bad. The authority in Saudi Arabia says you cannot be a christian. The authority in Nazi Germany said exterminate the jews.The authority in The US under Jim Crow said everything african american is BAD. ( This is the time when rock'n'roll took form and by the way IS an african american music form which people like Elvis adopted from folks like Fats Domino, Louis Jordan, Little Richard etc.since black music could not be played on the radio) Black people did not see their music as rebellious music. It was plain and simple: their music.

post scriptum: Satan is uncapable of creating something God allready created, which is music and all the notes and sounds in the world.
he( Satan) only takes what is Gods and twists it. Just like he does with sex and all other things. Satan is trying to take the honor for having created sex. Most non christians believe it. He also tries to claim most of the music in this world. Well he can't. We are taking it back [hyper] back. [hyper] [dance]

you say "understand Yahweh hates mixture" what DO you mean by that!! mixture in general or what [Confused] [Confused]

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all things are possible for she who believes in the Lord

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becauseHElives
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quote:
Certain notes were called satanic and avoided.
Actually it not the notes by themselves but how they were/are arranged.

I am not defending Mozart or any of those guys either.

I forget who, but one of those so called great composers was homosexual.

Good and evil can not come out of the same vessel.

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Strive to enter in at the strait gate:for many, I say unto you will seek to enter in, and shall not be able. ( Luke 13:24 )

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Jazzee
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Sound is wave phenomenon. Sound waves are readily transmitted through water. The human body is some 90 something precent water. Sound affects the human body. It can affect the human body in a positive way or a negative way. The blood chemistry of humans can be altered by sound. This is why sound therapy is used to treat a range of illnesses. Sound can raise or lower heart rate and blood pressure. Sound can effect mood physically by altering blood chemistry.

I believe this to be true in some ways. However I do not believe that this should be some sort of holy excuse for categorizing music we don't like or understand, as ungodly. This to me is not the spirit of humbleness, but the spirit of selfrighteousness. Also I cannot just accept the ice crystal pictures as being the truth. We all know these things can easily be manipulated by whomever with an agenda.I can't even see the last picture is an ice crystal and I don't remember ever having seen icecrystals looking like that nomatter what sound they have been exposed to. But I do see your point though. However to me, music like jazz, rock etc is beautiful music not noice. I am sure if it messed with my blood chemistry real bad I could feel it.

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all things are possible for she who believes in the Lord

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Itty-Bitty Girl
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quote:
Originally posted by Eden:


But I do think, Itty-Bitty Girl, that there could be such a thing as gospel rap, if done in a way that even God can bless.

Be blessed, and that's that.

Eden

No Eden, rap is rap. Gospel rap just as much as rap as gangsta rap is rap, it is all one genre. It is all one category, rappers rap, so it is rap. I just want to leave it at that.
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Jazzee
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well then did you know that also classical was considered rebellious back then?
At some point in history only gregorian music was considered pleasant to God. Certain notes were called satanic and avoided.The church called it "musica diabolica" Thats why gregorian music sounds the way it does, it kinda lack some notes like for instance the minor third that was considered demonic like the minor 7th + perfect 4. Therefore listening to christian music that derives from classical music like Mozart ( who was a man who liked partying and women by the way) Beethoven and the various is ALSO part the rebellious spirit of Satan and part christian.
Basically all music has elements of worldly music in it.

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all things are possible for she who believes in the Lord

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Eden
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Itty-Bitty Girl, Actually I think rap could be used IF--each word can easily be understood by hearers of all ages.

IOW, I think the gospel or good news can be said in rap rhyme as easily as Brooklyn Tabernacle Choir.

But in no way did ludamizleeto (the Topic starter) meet that standard that the words must be intelligible; because nothing can come from rap sentences whose only intelligible words are the two end words of each sentence.

But I do think, Itty-Bitty Girl, that there could be such a thing as gospel rap, if done in a way that even God can bless.

Be blessed, and that's that.

Eden

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Itty-Bitty Girl
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quote:
Originally posted by becauseHElives:
What is rebellion?

Rebellion is a refusal to accept authority. It may thus be seen as encompassing a range of behaviors from a mild flouting of social norms to a violent organized attempt to destroy established authority.

Rebellion to the Child of Yahweh is when we try to mix that which is Spiritual to that which of the world in agreement with the above definition.

Rap Music has as its author the rebellious spirit of Satan. And as I said before the same can be said of “Rock and Roll Music”.

You all may refuse to see it but Christian Rap Music is a mixture

Christ added to a form of music that is rebellious.

Yeshua came to set people free from the spirits of this world, not add the different spirits of the world to the Gospel.

Would you agree that Rock and Roll music started as the world’s music?

Would you agree that Rap music started as the world’s music?

If you don’t you are totally without Spiritual Discernment.

Once you understand that a thing, anything has its roots in this world, you can begin to understand what will not mix with the Gospel.

Understand Yahweh hate mixture.

Understand that the path to eternal life is a narrow path and few will find that path.

Rap music is not on that narrow path.

You know, Dale, you are beginning to make more sense.

Dale, you have been very convincing, you may have a point. I've listened to plenty of rebellion in rap, lots of rebellion.

Rap is rap, you can call it gangsta rap, gospel rap, etc, but it is still rap. Rap is rap. Rap is still being used.

I think that now I will have to leave that stuff alone, saying goodbye to the rap game forever.

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becauseHElives
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What is rebellion?

Rebellion is a refusal to accept authority. It may thus be seen as encompassing a range of behaviors from a mild flouting of social norms to a violent organized attempt to destroy established authority.

Rebellion to the Child of Yahweh is when we try to mix that which is Spiritual to that which of the world in agreement with the above definition.

Rap Music has as its author the rebellious spirit of Satan. And as I said before the same can be said of “Rock and Roll Music”.

You all may refuse to see it but Christian Rap Music is a mixture

Christ added to a form of music that is rebellious.

Yeshua came to set people free from the spirits of this world, not add the different spirits of the world to the Gospel.

Would you agree that Rock and Roll music started as the world’s music?

Would you agree that Rap music started as the world’s music?

If you don’t you are totally without Spiritual Discernment.

Once you understand that a thing, anything has its roots in this world, you can begin to understand what will not mix with the Gospel.

Understand Yahweh hate mixture.

Understand that the path to eternal life is a narrow path and few will find that path.

Rap music is not on that narrow path.

--------------------
Strive to enter in at the strait gate:for many, I say unto you will seek to enter in, and shall not be able. ( Luke 13:24 )

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helpforhomeschoolers
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I dont think that it is disrespectful to say you dont like hymns. There are some hymns I dont like too. In addition to the music that is boring, there are some hymns that have lyrics that are not true to scripture even. There are some hymns I really love. But again I would ask is this topic really about what we like or dont? Is it just possible that some "music" is just bad for us physically and spiritually regardless of whether we like it or not? Surely everyone here knows that some music is good for us physically and spiritually why do we think that the other side of that is not possible?
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