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Topic: Is contraception wrong?
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becauseHElives
Advanced Member
Member # 87
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posted
HEB 13:4 Marriage [is] honourable in all, and the bed undefiled: but whoremongers and adulterers God will judge.
I never said sex was only for reproduction, but that one of the reason made men and women was for reproduction.
So far no one has given one Scripture in defense of your belief of birth control.
1PET 3:15 But sanctify the Lord God in your hearts: and [be] ready always to [give] an answer to every man that asketh you a reason of the hope that is in you with meekness and fear:
The only defense I have read so far, show a lack of Faith that YEHWEH is able to provide for HIS own.
Any answer other than the Scriptures are humanistic reasoning!
It is nothing to me, I see mysef as one that YEHWEH has called to challenge the hearts of all believers,
2COR 13:5 Examine yourselves, whether ye be in the faith; prove your own selves. Know ye not your own selves, how that Jesus Christ is in you, except ye be reprobates?
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Strive to enter in at the strait gate:for many, I say unto you will seek to enter in, and shall not be able. ( Luke 13:24 )
Posts: 4578 | From: Southeast Texas | Registered: Jun 2002
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Waterdog
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Member # 24
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Excellent post, Light. Producer Tim said, "So if you really think Birthcontroll is BAD you should only have sex when you want a child.[sic]" (Tim, I realize we're on the same side, I'm just using your comment to further my point.) Even only having sex when you want a child is still going agains the principles of no birth control. If someone wants God to control their family size, then that means that it isn't up to them to decide when they want a child, so they couldn't use that as a factor to determine when to have sex. To truly trust God to control your family size, you must have sex every day of your married life, excluding those days the wife is already pregnant (since you can't get "more pregnant" when you are already carrying a child). That way, every day that you're not already pregnant, God has a chance to make you so. Any other sex schedule takes the decision out of God's hands, right? And how many quiver full people believe that they should have sex every day just in case that's the day God chooses to give them a child? None that I know of. God gave me a brain to think with. I'm not really great at math, but I know that with a mortgage 4 months behind (on a very, very modest house, not a 5 bedroom palace), a car payment 2 months behind, several other bills waiting to be paid, car insurance coming due, putting food on the table, etc. that we could not afford another child at this time. We hope to have another one or two in the future, but right now I'm thankful that God gave us the technology to delay expanding our family until we can truly take care of another child. And if, before we think we're ready, God decides we are, then I have every faith that He could make that happen, even though I am on the pill. There are a number of ways he could do that, too. He could cause me to forget to take it, He could make it so we don't have the money to refill my prescription, He could convince me that I shouldn't take them anymore, or He could just have me get pregnant while I'm taking it like I've heard happen to other women. If God wants a child to be born, He CAN make it happen, even when He wants that child to be born to a certain couple at a certain time.
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So let us go forth to Him outside the camp (Heb 13:11-14)
 
Posts: 374 | From: Austin, TX | Registered: Jun 2002
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becauseHElives
Advanced Member
Member # 87
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posted
INRI,
The Roman Catholic Church realizes the importance of birth and child training , as do the Mormons, Islamic,
Very few Roman Catholics , Mormons, or Islamic children leave their teachings.
Fact that are now being gathered, show that by birth rate only in 7 to 10 years America will be a Islamic Nation (if YEHWEH does not intervene)
I assume you are Roman Catholic, and while there may be a resemblance to Faith in YESHUA (Jesus) in the Roman Catholic Church, the truth is it is a pagan adaptation of The True Faith.
I do not wish to hurt you, I am sure you are sincere , but according to the Scriptures those involved in the Roman Catholic Church are deceived, but be assured the Protestants for the most part are in the same boat.
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Strive to enter in at the strait gate:for many, I say unto you will seek to enter in, and shall not be able. ( Luke 13:24 )
Posts: 4578 | From: Southeast Texas | Registered: Jun 2002
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INRI
unregistered
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quote:
Originally posted by becauseHElives:
The Birth Control Issue
Jesus said in John 16:13: "But when He comes, the Spirit of truth, He will guide you to all truth." Jesus also prayed for unity among believers (Jn. 17:21-22).
Until the Lambeth conference in 1930, all Christian churches condemned birth control as sinful. Today, the Roman Catholic Church is virtually alone in holding to this ancient belief, as one denomination after another has accepted artificial contraception. This should be a troubling fact for many who believe in Scripture.
Was the Holy Spirit wrong in guiding all Christians to believe that birth control was immoral for some 1900 years?
Well stated fact becauseHElives, that is a truth many churches have caved on in recent history. Why do you think that is and why is the RCC of all churches the only one that maintains their position??? ![[Eek!]](eek.gif)
Thanks!
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becauseHElives
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Member # 87
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posted
The Birth Control Issue
Jesus said in John 16:13: "But when He comes, the Spirit of truth, He will guide you to all truth." Jesus also prayed for unity among believers (Jn. 17:21-22).
Until the Lambeth conference in 1930, all Christian churches condemned birth control as sinful. Today, the Roman Catholic Church is virtually alone in holding to this ancient belief, as one denomination after another has accepted artificial contraception. This should be a troubling fact for many who believe in Scripture.
Was the Holy Spirit wrong in guiding all Christians to believe that birth control was immoral for some 1900 years?
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Strive to enter in at the strait gate:for many, I say unto you will seek to enter in, and shall not be able. ( Luke 13:24 )
Posts: 4578 | From: Southeast Texas | Registered: Jun 2002
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becauseHElives
Advanced Member
Member # 87
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posted
Light you will find the answers to every point in the following.
No one that has disagreed has offered one Scripture in regard to their point of view.
Is your reasoning polluted with humanism?
This is lengthy , but if you love the TRUTH please read.
First off, have any that disagree ever read what a birth control pill does.
Oral Contraceptives--by Bogomir M. Kuhar, Pharm.D.
Since 1960, pharmaceutical companies have been systematically convincing Western women that oral contraceptives (OC's, commonly know as "the Pill") are the perfect birth control. But they have managed to conceal from most of the public the fact that oral contraceptives are not purely contraceptive: they do not alway prevent conception (the union of sperm and egg), they only prevent implantation of a newly fertilized egg. That is, they prevent the new human being from adhering to the wall of the womb and drawing nourishment. In this way, oral "contraceptives" are causing untold numbers of early abortions, probably far more abortions than are done surgically. …………….
Continue reading at
http://members.tripod.com/~CHERYL51/index-3.html
Here's an absolutely wonderful Bible study on birth control.
THE CASE AGAINST BIRTH CONTROL
http://www.momys.com/birth_control.htm
PREFACE: This is YOUR decision, not mine for you. I recognize that you can be a Christian and disagree with the position of this paper, so I don't want to unnecessarily make a big issue of birth control. This paper is intended to be a persuasive teaching tool that helps you make an intelligent, informed decision concerning birth control (hereafter "B.C."). Once you have made an informed decision, I do not wish to make further issue of it, because B.C. is not a major tenet of our Christian faith.
BIBLICAL BASIS:
God is Sovereign in birth. He opens & shuts the womb; He blesses with children. (The following verses are NOT an exhaustive list.)
It is GOD Who opens and shuts the womb: Genesis 20:17-18; 29:31-33; 30:1-2,6,17-18, 20, 22, 23; I Samuel 1:6, 11, 19, 20;
God helps and participates in the process of bringing forth children: Genesis 4:1, 25; 21:1-2; Ruth 4:13; I Samuel 2:20-21; Psalm 139:13, 16; Luke 1:21-25, 57-58
God multiplies children: Genesis 16:10; 17: 2,20; 22:17; 26:4, 24; 28:3; 41:52; 48:4; Exodus 32:13; Deuteronomy 1:10,11; 28:63; 30:5, Joshua 24:3; I Chronicles 27: 23; Psalm 105:24; 107:38; Isaiah 26:15; 51:2; Jeremiah 30: 19; 33:22; Ezra 36:10-11, 37; 37:26
The Bible nowhere encourages B.C., but everywhere condones fertility!
Pro-child verses: Psalm 127:3-5; 128; I Chronicles 20:4-5; Exodus 23:25-26; Proverbs 17:6
Children are a blessing that comes from obeying God: Leviticus 26:9; Deuteronomy 28:1-4; 6:3; 7:13; 13:17.
Pro-Fertility verses:
Leviticus 20:18 (abstaining during monthly periods increases chance of fertilization after period); Genesis 1:27-28 (the command to be fruitful has never been revoked); I Cor. 7:3-5 (Not compatible with "Natural Family Planning").
Anti-Infertility Verses:
Infertile manners of intercourse were condemned: Bestiality (Leviticus 20:15, 16), Homosexuality (Leviticus 20:13), Withdrawal (Genesis 38:6-10, Deuteronomy 25:5-10). In fact, all of these things incurred the death penalty.
There was no death penalty for improper manners of intercourse which were yet fertile (fornication and polygamy).
Semen is referred to as offspring even before it joins the egg: Hebrews 7:9-10; Job 10:8-11.
Childlessness is a curse: Leviticus 20:20-21; Hosea 9:10-17.
Having children is part of the whole picture of a family:
The Father is to provide for his family--I Timothy 5:8; Ephesians 6:4.
The Mother is to work at home and have children: I Timothy 2:15; Titus 2:3-5, Malachi 2:15, I Timothy 5:9,10, 14.
Children are a blessing to parents: Proverbs 10:1; 23:24-25; Mark 7: 10-13.
Parents are to teach children: Deuteronomy 6:7; 11:19.
HISTORY:
B.C. has existed for millennia. Ancient Egyptian papyruses have been discovered with references to chemical contraceptives. The IUD was used by ancient Arabic caravan traders. Infanticide has always been widespread in pagan cultures either through sacrifices to appease spirits or through abandonment (i.e. Oedipus Rex).
God's people, Israel, did not practice B.C. They WANTED all the children they could get and considered them an unqualified blessing. The one man mentioned as practicing B.C., Onan, was struck dead for it. (Onan's judgement was not due to a simple refusal to raise up offspring for the widow. If he wanted to refuse that duty, he could have followed the teaching of Deuteronomy 25:5-10, as Ruth's nearest-of-kin did, removed his sandal, and passed on the responsibility to the next-nearest-of-kin--which, in Ruth's case was Boaz. See Ruth 4:1-12. No, the issue was that Onan practiced birth control by spilling his seed.)
Christians have also historically not practiced B.C. This is not a Roman Catholic church issue--their practice is a carry-over from a time when ALL Christians did not practice B.C. The Protestant Synod of Dort equated contraception with abortion. Martin Luther, John Calvin, John Wesley, and many other founders of Protestantism linked B.C. with murder. The Pilgrims who founded our country considered B.C. as bad as adultery and disqualified anyone from church leadership who practiced it. The change of Christians in the U.S. to using B.C. has been concurrent with many other bad trends: feminism, higher criticism, worldliness, abuse of spiritual gifts and church offices, decline of purity in the church, and a lack of evangelism and discipleship. There is more recently, however, a growing movement in the U.S. of Christians ditching B.C. Obviously, we shouldn't base our position on whether or not OTHER people practice B.C., but if the non-use of B.C. has been a universal trend for the vast majority of Christian history, we should not lightly dismiss it, but rather examine WHY.
CON'S OF B.C.:
ALL FORMS OF B.C. INCREASE ABORTION. Contrary to what some doctors say, there is no such thing as a chemical contraceptive (Pill, implant) that does not cause abortion from 2-5% of the time. Although the primary function of most of these "Pills" is to prevent ovulation, they do not prevent all ovulation (people still occasionally get pregnant), so they ALL have a secondary function of irritating the lining of the uterus so that a fertilized egg will not be able to implant, and thus will abort. There are several other pills whose primary effect is to abort fertilized eggs; the IUD also does this as its primary function. Apparently, the body also aborts some pregnancies naturally at very early stages, without provocation, and all methods of mechanical prevention of fertilization (condom, diaphragm, Rhythm, N.F.P.) actually increase the number of these natural abortions by perpetuating the monthly menstrual cycle, which can be suspended if a woman gets pregnant often.
BIBLICAL SUPPORT IS MISSING: B.C. puts a Christian in the shaky position of Onan, who was killed. I Corinthians 7:3-5 gives the only reason for skipping sex--prayer and fasting, not to avoid children. Leviticus 12:1-5 and 20:18 establish a sexual pattern that actually increases fertility rather than decreasing it!
IT'S INCONVENIENT: I have never heard a single positive comment about diaphragms and spermicidal jelly or the female condom from people who use them because of what a pain they are to put in place. Using a male condom is not as pleasant as not using them (and condoms are not highly effective at preventing fertilization anyway). And, of course, it's not fun to go without having sex for long periods of time as per the "Rhythm" or "Natural Family Planning" methods; abstaining for long periods of time can contribute to the sin of adultery. Using B.C methods causes a woman to undergo uncomfortable periods every month, but going without B.C., periods can be rare.
HEALTH PROBLEMS: If you take the pill, you are five times more likely to die of circulatory disorders. The pill can also cause permanent infertility and a host of other major and minor problems. The IUD often causes lacerations in the uterus which result in severe pain and permanent infertility. Abortion is a serious cause of breast cancer. It is also a proven fact that the longer child-bearing is delayed, the more likely a woman is to get endometriosis.
OBJECTIONS HOLD NO WATER:
OVERPOPULATION is a local problem in some cities, but it is not a world crisis. If every person in the world today were given one acre of land (therefore families living together would have far more than 1 acre of land), everyone living in the world today could just about fit within the Continental U.S. alone. (According to agricultural studies, an acre would give far more than enough land for living space and food-production for one person!) It is also a fact that humans adapt and create new methods of coping with scarce resources. Over a thousand years ago, thinkers were afraid that the earth was too overpopulated then for the human race to survive, but we have adapted fine!
MULTIPLYING LIKE RABBITS: The average number of children borne by monogamous couples not practicing birth control is only five!
COST: The scary, high figures you see quoted are based on expensive C-sections, baby formula, baby food, frivolous baby furniture, not getting a baby shower, using day care, etc, all of which is unnecessary. It doesn't take long before children are old enough to become income producers, anyway. Additionally, God provides for His children. See Psalm 23:1; 37:25-26; 84:11; Proverbs 3:33; 14:26; Malachi 3:8-10; Matthew 6:25-34; Philippians 4:6, 19; I Timothy 6:6-10.
THE MYTH THAT CHILDREN OF LARGE FAMILIES ARE LESS INTELLIGENT is sheer bunk. 76% of U.S. Presidents came from families of 5 or more children. Almost every famous Classical musician came from a family of more than 7. Comparing an upper-income only-child with the 10 children of a dysfunctional family in the "projects" is comparing apples and oranges; intelligence is based on the intelligence and discipline of the parents, not the number of children.
STEWARDSHIP: Look at the famous passage on stewardship: the Parable of the Talents in Matthew 25:14-30. Who decided how many talents each servant could steward, the servant or the Master?
TECHNOLOGY IS GOOD. Not necessarily so. The H-bomb is intelligent, highly advanced technology, but that doesn't mean we should blow up the world with it. Simply because technology (such as the Pill) is available doesn't mean we should use it! We must first evaluate the moral ramifications of its use.
WHAT IF I HAVE HEALTH PROBLEMS? There may be exceptions, but are you looking for an excuse, or are you trying to be faithful to God? Although many doctors won't admit it, many female problems would be solved rather than exacerbated by having children.
BIBLE ONLY FOR AGRARIAN COMMUNITY. No, God's principles apply to all cultures. The famous verse about having a "full quiver" of children (Psalm 127:3-5) was written by a politician in a big city and was written about a soldier. The context is not agrarian at all!
SEX ONLY FOR PROCREATION? No, this is the Argumentum ad absurdium fallacy. Notice that there is a difference between sex to avoid children, sex to create children, and uninhibited sex. We believe the Bible teaches that the last of the three is the best! Besides, no matter which of the three approaches you take, you can't help having pleasure, therefore sex by its very nature is not limited to procreation!
A SOVEREIGN GOD CAN OVERRIDE B.C. Let us apply the same logic to another context: suppose a murderer were to say, "I've bought a knife, and I'm going over to Fred's house to kill him, but if God doesn't want me to kill Fred in cold blood, He will find a way to stop me." This logical progression is exactly the same as that of someone who says they don't know whether B.C. is wrong or not, but that they will do it anyway and God will stop them if it's wrong. This is not a logical position. It is irresponsible to purposefully not decide whether what you're doing is right or wrong! Here's one more question: "Why would God want to give children to someone who doesn't want them?"
CONCLUSION. Given the Bible's pro-children stance and its anti-infertility stance, given the fact that Christians have historically not practiced birth control, given the problems caused by birth control, and given the fact that reasons for using birth control are not valid, it is a reasonable and good conclusion that Christians should not practice birth control.
BIBLIOGRAPHY:
A FULL QUIVER, Hess, Wolgemuth & Hyatt.
ALL THE WAY HOME, Pride, Crossway.
LETTING GOD PLAN YOUR FAMILY, Owens,
THE BIBLE AND BIRTH CONTROL, Provan, Zimmer.
THE WAY HOME, Pride, Crossway.
WHAT GOD WANTS HIS WOMEN TO BE LIKE, Wilson.
WOMAN'S COMPLETE GUIDE TO PERSONAL HEALTH CARE, Evans, Wolgemuth & Hyatt.
BIRTH CONTROL - A Bible study
"Kids are a nuisance," is the prevailing attitude of the world. Is this Scriptural?
GOD'S VIEW OF CHILDREN. Leviticus 26:9; Deuteronomy 6:3; 7:13; 13:17b-18, 28:1-4,11. Ruth 4:11-12.
CHILDREN ARE A BLESSING FROM GOD. Psalms 127:3-5; 128. Proverbs 14:1; 17:6. Leviticus 20:20-21.
Childlessness is sometimes a curse. Hosea 9:11-12,14,16; Matthew 19:14.
How does Jesus feel about kids?
If children are really a blessing from God, why do we try to remain "unblessed"?
WHAT'S THE MAIN PURPOSE OF A CHRISTIAN MARRIAGE? Genesis 1:28; Malachi 2:15. There is only one purpose listed here! Genesis 38:6-10; Deut. 25:5-10.
Onan disobeyed God's command to marry his brother's widow in order to produce a child for his brother. The issue was not whether or not he would give offspring, but that he spilled his seed (i.e., practiced contraception) instead of using the Biblical legal procedure for declining the practice of levirate (throwing off his sandal). This is why he was killed. Based on Malachi 2:15, Christians who purposely prevent the conception of any children appear to be in the same precarious position as Onan.
WHAT ABOUT THE "NATURAL FAMILY PLANNING" METHOD? I Corinthians 7:3-5 -- Birth control is not a good reason to abstain from sex. Also, remember what happened to Onan when he tried to use a variant of the NFP method! Leviticus 12:1-5; 20:18 -- God has His own method of "natural family planning." Abstaining from sex during monthly periods actually increases fertility. Does it sound like God wants to prevent children from being conceived? (See Ezekiel 18:5-6 on whether the Leviticus verses are "cultural.")
WHO CONTROLS CONCEPTION? The real issue is not birth control but rather our concept of God. Do you really believe God is sovereign over all things? Genesis 4:25; 16:10; 17:2,20; 20:17-18; 21:1-2; 22:17; 26:4,24; 28:3; 29:31-33; 30:1-2,6,17-18,20,22-23; 41:52; 48:4. Exodus 32:13. Deuteronomy 1:10,11; 28:63; 30:5. Joshua 24:3. Ruth 4:13. I Samuel 1:6,11,19-20; 2:20-21. I Chronicles 27:23. Psalm 100:3; 105:24; 107:38; 139:13,16. Isaiah 26:15; 44:2; 49:5a; 51:2. Jeremiah 30:19; 33:22. Ezekiel 36:10-11,37; 37:26. Luke 1:24-25,57-58. These verses say the increase of the people is generally a result of their obedience to God!
POINTS TO PONDER. I Timothy 5:14 -- Satan can gain ground as a result of women trying to prevent God's blessings. Proverbs 3:5-6, 16:25 -- According to our human logic, not using birth control may seem foolish. What do these verses say about human logic?
Q. If God is sovereign over the womb, why does birth control work? A. If people are sinning by trying to control conception, why would God want to bless them?
ANSWERING COMMON CONCERNS I WOULDN'T BE ABLE TO PROVIDE FOR A LARGE FAMILY. Psalm 23:1, 37:25-26, 84:11; Proverbs 3:33, 14:26; Malachi 3:8-10; Matthew 6:25-34; Philippians 4:6,19; I Timothy 6:6-10. If children are God's blessing to us, would He not provide what we need to properly take care of each blessing? Note, however, that God provides for the righteous. There are no promises here for the ungodly. Does your concept of provision include such "necessities" as a large home, exotic foods, college savings accounts for each child?
WE ARE SUPPOSED TO BE GOOD STEWARDS OF WHAT GOD GIVES US. Matthew 25:14-30. The servants had no control over how many talents they were entrusted with. We are supposed to be good stewards of what God gives us. If the servant who received one talent had begged his master not to entrust him with any at all, do you think the master's reaction would have been any different?
I'M TOO OLD TO HAVE ANY MORE CHILDREN. Genesis 17:17; Luke 1:7.
YOU SHOULD SPEND SOME TIME WITH MY KIDS IF YOU REALLY THINK CHILDREN ARE A BLESSING! We will study this in depth in another session. For now, suffice it to say that the Bible is full of promises that your children will be a blessing if you exercise good stewardship over the gifts God gives you. This includes disciplining your children, having a good attitude about them, refraining from such verbal abuse as name-calling, etc., and, most importantly, teaching them God's ways "...when you sit at home and when you walk along the road, when you lie down and when you get up." (Deuteronomy 6:7)
WHAT ABOUT GOD-GIVEN INFERTILITY? You need to examine the situation thoroughly: Is God trying to teach you that He is in control or perhaps that you simply need to rest in Him and wait for His timing? Having to wait a long time to conceive a child will greatly increase your appreciation of the child. Maybe you need to learn that lesson before you are entrusted with a child. Is your infertility a curse resulting from your assumption that you control conception? Infertility is sometimes caused by a past sin such as abortion or using a birth control device that destroys your reproduction ability. God will forgive a truly repentant person for such sins, but you may have to suffer the consequences of your sin. However, God is in complete control of conception and may even heal you of your infertility in this situation. Perhaps God has a different purpose for you: Adoption, or frontier missions work where children would be in danger. Many Godly women in the Bible were barren--Sarah, Rachel, Hannah, Elizabeth.
Suggested Reading: A Full Quiver by Rick and Jan Hess; Blessed Events by Debra Evans; Letting God Plan Your Family by Samuel A. Owen, Jr.; The Bible and Birth Control by Charles Provan; The Way Home: Beyond Feminism and Back to Reality by Mary Pride; "Does The Birth Control Pill Cause Abortions?" by Randy Alcorn (http://www.epm.org/~ralcorn).
Back to Full Quiver page.
Caveat: Most of the information on this site comes from back issues of The MOMYS Digest, an email-only forum for mothers of many young children. It is offered in good faith and is not intended to replace medical advice, pastoral counsel, your husband's opinion, or your own good sense.
To subscribe to The MOMYS Digest, click here.
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Strive to enter in at the strait gate:for many, I say unto you will seek to enter in, and shall not be able. ( Luke 13:24 )
Posts: 4578 | From: Southeast Texas | Registered: Jun 2002
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Producer Tim
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Member # 1456
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posted
LOL I aree with Light too.
Abortion is a prosess in which a living, WITH spirit is being killed birthcontrol works befor life even starts.
If saying birthcontroll is bad, whats the diffrence to stop sex befor you lose controll or birthcontroll (after you go trough the whole thing)? In both cases you are trying to prevent somthing. So if you really think Birthcontroll is BAD you should only have sex when you want a child.
yes the bible says be fruitfull but than again in the new testement is says its better for a man to be alone. So how do you ballance that???? God leaves YOU the freedom to have childran have a family or not to you!! he is not forcing you to it and it will not be sin if you chose not to ever have any children.
Posts: 7 | From: Alaska | Registered: May 2003
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Cameron
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Member # 1090
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I don't believe it's wrong. I'm not going to bother putting in my arguments because they're the same as all the other pro arguments anyway, so I'd just be wasting everyones time.
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Why do we care what people think of us when we know what God thinks of us?
Posts: 332 | From: Queensland, Australia | Registered: Feb 2003
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Kindgo
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Amen Light ![[thumbsup2]](graemlins/thumbsup2.gif)
Great post! Welcome to the board, looking forward to hearing more from you... ![[Cool]](cool.gif)
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God bless,
Kindgo
Inside the will of God there is no failure. Outside the will of God there is no success.
Posts: 4320 | From: Sunny Florida | Registered: Jun 2002
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Light
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Member # 1464
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BecauseHeLives....
The LORD has convicted my wife and I both that if He is LORD of our life HE is LORD of our reproductive process also.
Yes, but God gave us free will to make choices ourselves. Did you not try to concieve your children, then that was an active choice made by you?
One of the purposes of marriage is to produce a Godly seed...
God did say, "Be fruitful and multiply." However, there are many ways that can be done. Not neccesary by having as many children as we can in our life. A childless couple could mentor children and an infertile couple can adopt.
The LORD convicted us, I believe to chose how many children you are going to have is a sin to be repented of like any other sin.
Show me where the Lord has told us that. I'd like to know. And what about women who cannot have children. Are they not holy enough, are they not devote Christian. If God is trully the open and closer of the womb, then why are there faithful Christians who cannot have children? Please explain that one to me.
Birth control of any kind is equal to abortion.
How can you equate preventing conception, with killing an unborn child. I really see some holes in your logic and interpretation of the Bible
The reasons people limit the size of their family and the reason people get abortions are generally the same.
Oh is it?! I use birth control, so that I can have children when I am best able to take care of them. And you are comparing me to someone who willing kills there unborn child. That is an awful strong judgement from a supposed "Christian".
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JMJaneway
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Well, I have to voice my opinon on this issue.
First of all I want to say that I agree absitnance is the only God approved form of birth control for UNMARRIED couples. Married couples is different.
I take birth control pills and have since I was 17 but I take them for health reasons as well as to not get pregnant. My husband and I have two children a boy 12 and a girl 8. I feel blessed to have them. Right now because of the status of my husband's job I have no health insurance or the money to have a baby. Granted if I did get pregnant we would have 3 children. There is no way I could abort.No matter the financial strain. But I would like to say to those that say I am not letting God be the the God of my life.. you are putting God in a box.I seek God's will for my life and if I ever felt God didnt want me to take the pill I would be off in a heartbeat. I got prenant with my first child while on the pill. So I know that if God wants me to have a child. In HIS time despite my pill I will get pregnant. God is mightier than the pill.
Posts: 9 | From: Houston | Registered: May 2003
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Rach
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The Lord see fit to give me a wonderful husband, a man that I love more than my own life. He also has given me a wonderful career that I love. The one thing that I lack is the patience, the time, or the desire to raise a child. I can't seem to grasp the concept that with all the technology that God has given us, that using protection is wrong. I also DO understand that in God's time, we will become parents. I see nothing wrong with doing my part to delay that portion of my life. God has a plan for us either way.
Posts: 41 | From: NC | Registered: Apr 2003
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leeprice
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posted
I don't want to "do things my way". I am just concerned about personal responsibility. I mean, I wouldn't want to jump off of a five story building just to "prove" my faith. If I cross the street, I don't just walk across blind-folded and think "Oh, God will take control of my life." . I look both ways because I am responsible for myself and I shouldn't test God.
I worry about people who just let the chips fall where they may- look at the results. Like I said, there are so many children that are not properly cared for. ![[Frown]](frown.gif)
I mean no harm; I just feel like I have a duty to use what God gave me and not to be completely passive.
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7"Ask and it will be given to you; seek and you will find; knock and the door will be opened to you. 8For everyone who asks receives; he who seeks finds; and to him who knocks, the door will be opened.
Matthew 7
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helpforhomeschoolers
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Member # 15
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posted
Amen! BHL
When we walk in the will of the Lord, and determine to make Him Lord of ALL, then we can rest secure in knowing that what he calls us to do he will also provide for us to do.
If God wants to bring 10 children into this world through your womb, he will if you allow him to do so, provide the means you need for those children. If he only wants you to have 2 and you are His and surrendered to His Lordship, you will not have three no matter how you try!
God does not call us to a task and then say.. do this the best way you can!
The problem arises when we try to do things our way and think we are living our lives for Him.
God wants to be Lord of ALL of your life.
Posts: 4684 | From: Southern Black Hills of South Dakota | Registered: Jun 2002
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becauseHElives
Advanced Member
Member # 87
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posted
What does it mean when we say “YESHUA is LORD of my life”.
What decisions do we place in HIS authority?
Do we place our decision for an occupation, profession for our life in HIS will ?
Do we place our decision for a life mate for our life in HIS will ?
Do we place our decision for how many children HE desires for us to have in HIS will ?
The “Church” is full of humanistic thinking that is opposed to the thinking of YEHWEH.
The thinking of Satan is personified in his declarations of “I will “……..
IS 14:13 For thou hast said in thine heart, I will ascend into heaven, I will exalt my throne above the stars of God: I will sit also upon the mount of the congregation, in the sides of the north:
IS 14:14 I will ascend above the heights of the clouds; I will be like the most High
Humanistic thinking in man declares…….
I am in control, I will marry whom I please, I will do with my life as I please, this is my family I will chose how many children I have , on and on the list goes…….. do not tell me what YEHWEH’S WORD say , I live by Grace.
Never forget “the heart of any issue is the issue of the heart.
JAS 4:6 But he giveth more grace. Wherefore he saith, God resisteth the proud, but giveth grace unto the humble.
1PET 5:5 Likewise, ye younger, submit yourselves unto the elder. Yea, all [of you] be subject one to another, and be clothed with humility: for God resisteth the proud, and giveth grace to the humble.
YEHWEH declares children…….
Psalms 127
Except the LORD build the house, they labour in vain that build it: except the LORD keep the city, the watchman waketh [but] in vain.
[It is] vain for you to rise up early, to sit up late, to eat the bread of sorrows: [for] so he giveth his beloved sleep.
Lo, children [are] an heritage of the LORD: [and] the fruit of the womb [is his] reward. As arrows [are] in the hand of a mighty man; so [are] children of the youth.
Happy [is] the man that hath his quiver full of them: they shall not be ashamed, but they shall speak with the enemies in the gate.
In this day of the “Church” when a man is spoken of to be blessed , very rarely does it apply to having a home full of children. How opposite to the heart of YEHWEH.
To make a mistake in our thinking is human,
When YEHWEH shows us our wrong thinking and we continue to refuse to change, this is pride.
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Strive to enter in at the strait gate:for many, I say unto you will seek to enter in, and shall not be able. ( Luke 13:24 )
Posts: 4578 | From: Southeast Texas | Registered: Jun 2002
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bcofHIM
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Member # 503
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posted
quote:
Originally posted by becauseHElives:
The reasons people limit the size of their family and the reason people get abortions are generally the same.
[/QB]
I disagre with this statment! I have used contraception for many, many years. I have a 3 y/o daughter and I am now using a contraception again. (my daugther was a planned pregnacy) I DO NOT WANT ANY MORE CHILDREN!!! I am very blessed to be a mother to the one I have know. My husband and I could afford another, yet emotional I can't afford to have another. And unless God changes my heart, which He is the only one that can do it, I don't plan on ever having any more.
I don't see how you can even group abortion with preventing a pregnacy that was unwanted.
Oh, and just to really stir the pot! I don't like being put in a box or being judged by a sterotype. I am a Christian with Christian values. But this Christian is PRO CHOICE!!
Posts: 36 | From: DFW, TX | Registered: Oct 2002
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leeprice
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Member # 1377
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posted
"But the simple truth is people do not trust that the LORD is able to provide for large families or that large families are over populating the globe or some other reason."
Don't get mad at tme, okay? But I must disagree with this statement....
I know we all love to trust that things will work out, but I used to work for an abused children's program. I'm afraid that some children are not provided for, due to people having free will and misusing it. I have seen a lot of starving children.
And I have known of lots of poor families who lived in run-down houses with sometimes no running water and sometimes no electricity, not to mention heat in the winter. (By the way, I lived that way for most of my childhood.) I would honestly feel badly about bringing a child into the world if I couldn't provide for it. (I have never had an abortion.)
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7"Ask and it will be given to you; seek and you will find; knock and the door will be opened to you. 8For everyone who asks receives; he who seeks finds; and to him who knocks, the door will be opened.
Matthew 7
Posts: 55 | From: USA | Registered: Apr 2003
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leeprice
Advanced Member
Member # 1377
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posted
Uhhh, no offense or anything, but isn't abstinence going to prevent a birth, just as contraception does?
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7"Ask and it will be given to you; seek and you will find; knock and the door will be opened to you. 8For everyone who asks receives; he who seeks finds; and to him who knocks, the door will be opened.
Matthew 7
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helpforhomeschoolers
Advanced Member
Member # 15
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posted
I have not always believed this but I now believe that abstinence is the only form of birth control that honors God's will.
Abstinence should be practiced until marriage.
If we are His from BEFORE he places us in our mother's womb, then we dont have the right to control the bringing into existence of life, other than to NOT do it in the course of sexual sin.
By the way, God is full well able to bring about children when God wants to bring about children inspite of our using of contraception. (exculding of course the removal of a woman's womb. Which thank God most doctors would not do for contraceptive reasons)
I have three beautiful girls all conceived while taking three different brands of birth control pills. You can bet your bottom dollar that I KNOW God has a purpose for each of their lives!
Posts: 4684 | From: Southern Black Hills of South Dakota | Registered: Jun 2002
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TEXASGRANDMA
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Member # 847
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posted
I do NOT believe the birth control is wrong. I believe a couple should be resonsible and not have more children than they could afford. After we had two children, my husband did the responsible thing for a man to do and had an operation so that we could not have any more children. We wanted to the best we could for the children that we already had. I am proud of my husband for being considerate father and husband.
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Luk 21:28 And when these things begin to come to pass, then look up, and lift up your heads; for your redemption draweth nigh.
http://www.indieheaven.com/artists/mm (son-in-law)http://www.myspace.com/mireles
Posts: 4985 | From: Washington State | Registered: Jan 2003
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becauseHElives
Advanced Member
Member # 87
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posted
Right or wrong?
The LORD has convicted my wife and I both that if He is LORD of our life HE is LORD of our reproductive process also.
One of the purposes of marriage is to produce a Godly seed………
MALACHI 2:14-15
Yet ye say, Wherefore? Because the LORD hath been witness between thee and the wife of thy youth, against whom thou hast dealt treacherously: yet [is] she thy companion, and the wife of thy covenant.
And did not he make one? Yet had he the residue of the spirit. And wherefore one? That he might seek a godly seed. Therefore take heed to your spirit, and let none deal treacherously against the wife of his youth.
In the day we now live the “Church” has bought the lie and conformed to this worlds ideas , that children are a burden, or too expensive, or two are enough, or three at the most, the list is endless
But the simple truth is people do not trust that the LORD is able to provide for large families or that large families are over populating the globe or some other reason.
The LORD convicted us, I believe to chose how many children you are going to have is a sin to be repented of like any other sin.
Birth control of any kind is equal to abortion.
Before you throw to many stones at me please consider the following…….
MT 5:28 But I say unto you, That whosoever looketh on a woman to lust after her hath committed adultery with her already in his heart.
YEHSUA’S teachings took sin to its lowest common denominator
I believe if we are going to condemn abortion and I believe we need to first get the beam out of our eye first, before I judge someone else I my first judge myself and see if that sin is in my hear and deal with it.
The reasons people limit the size of their family and the reason people get abortions are generally the same.
I will not answer for your decisions only my own
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Strive to enter in at the strait gate:for many, I say unto you will seek to enter in, and shall not be able. ( Luke 13:24 )
Posts: 4578 | From: Southeast Texas | Registered: Jun 2002
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Catholicious
Advanced Member
Member # 726
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posted
Based on the whole of scripture, do you feel it is wrong to use any artificial form of contraception including sterilization to prevent the conception of a child? I feel that it is wrong, let me know what you think. Thanks.
![[Cross]](graemlins/cross.gif) ![[Bible]](graemlins/bible.gif) ![[Prayer]](graemlins/prayer.gif)
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Acts 20:29-30 (NAB)
29 I know that after my departure savage wolves will come among you, and they will not spare the flock.
30 And from your own group, men will come forward perverting the truth to draw the disciples away after them.
1 Peter 3:15-16 (RSV)
15 but in your hearts reverence Christ as Lord. Always be prepared to make a defense to any one who calls you to account for the hope that is in you, yet do it with gentleness and reverence;
16 and keep your conscience clear, so that, when you are abused, those who revile your good behavior in Christ may be put to shame.
Matthew 5:11 (KJV)
5 Blessed are ye, when men shall revile you, and persecute you, and shall say all manner of evil against you falsely, for my sake.
Peace and God Bless!
Catholicious
Posts: 188 | From: Midwest USA | Registered: Dec 2002
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