Christian Message Boards: Is contraception wrong?

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Posted by Catholicious (Member # 726) on :

Based on the whole of scripture, do you feel it is wrong to use any artificial form of contraception including sterilization to prevent the conception of a child? I feel that it is wrong, let me know what you think. Thanks.

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Posted by becauseHElives (Member # 87) on :

Right or wrong?

The LORD has convicted my wife and I both that if He is LORD of our life HE is LORD of our reproductive process also.

One of the purposes of marriage is to produce a Godly seed………

MALACHI 2:14-15
Yet ye say, Wherefore? Because the LORD hath been witness between thee and the wife of thy youth, against whom thou hast dealt treacherously: yet [is] she thy companion, and the wife of thy covenant.
And did not he make one? Yet had he the residue of the spirit. And wherefore one? That he might seek a godly seed. Therefore take heed to your spirit, and let none deal treacherously against the wife of his youth.

In the day we now live the “Church” has bought the lie and conformed to this worlds ideas , that children are a burden, or too expensive, or two are enough, or three at the most, the list is endless

But the simple truth is people do not trust that the LORD is able to provide for large families or that large families are over populating the globe or some other reason.

The LORD convicted us, I believe to chose how many children you are going to have is a sin to be repented of like any other sin.

Birth control of any kind is equal to abortion.

Before you throw to many stones at me please consider the following…….

MT 5:28 But I say unto you, That whosoever looketh on a woman to lust after her hath committed adultery with her already in his heart.

YEHSUA’S teachings took sin to its lowest common denominator

I believe if we are going to condemn abortion and I believe we need to first get the beam out of our eye first, before I judge someone else I my first judge myself and see if that sin is in my hear and deal with it.

The reasons people limit the size of their family and the reason people get abortions are generally the same.

I will not answer for your decisions only my own

Posted by TEXASGRANDMA (Member # 847) on :

I do NOT believe the birth control is wrong. I believe a couple should be resonsible and not have more children than they could afford. After we had two children, my husband did the responsible thing for a man to do and had an operation so that we could not have any more children. We wanted to the best we could for the children that we already had. I am proud of my husband for being considerate father and husband.

Posted by helpforhomeschoolers (Member # 15) on :

I have not always believed this but I now believe that abstinence is the only form of birth control that honors God's will.

Abstinence should be practiced until marriage.

If we are His from BEFORE he places us in our mother's womb, then we dont have the right to control the bringing into existence of life, other than to NOT do it in the course of sexual sin.

By the way, God is full well able to bring about children when God wants to bring about children inspite of our using of contraception. (exculding of course the removal of a woman's womb. Which thank God most doctors would not do for contraceptive reasons)

I have three beautiful girls all conceived while taking three different brands of birth control pills. You can bet your bottom dollar that I KNOW God has a purpose for each of their lives!

Posted by leeprice (Member # 1377) on :

Uhhh, no offense or anything, but isn't abstinence going to prevent a birth, just as contraception does?

Posted by leeprice (Member # 1377) on :

"But the simple truth is people do not trust that the LORD is able to provide for large families or that large families are over populating the globe or some other reason."

Don't get mad at tme, okay? But I must disagree with this statement....

I know we all love to trust that things will work out, but I used to work for an abused children's program. I'm afraid that some children are not provided for, due to people having free will and misusing it. I have seen a lot of starving children.

And I have known of lots of poor families who lived in run-down houses with sometimes no running water and sometimes no electricity, not to mention heat in the winter. (By the way, I lived that way for most of my childhood.) I would honestly feel badly about bringing a child into the world if I couldn't provide for it. (I have never had an abortion.)

Posted by bcofHIM (Member # 503) on :

quote:
Originally posted by becauseHElives:

The reasons people limit the size of their family and the reason people get abortions are generally the same.

[/QB]

I disagre with this statment! I have used contraception for many, many years. I have a 3 y/o daughter and I am now using a contraception again. (my daugther was a planned pregnacy) I DO NOT WANT ANY MORE CHILDREN!!! I am very blessed to be a mother to the one I have know. My husband and I could afford another, yet emotional I can't afford to have another. And unless God changes my heart, which He is the only one that can do it, I don't plan on ever having any more.
I don't see how you can even group abortion with preventing a pregnacy that was unwanted.
Oh, and just to really stir the pot! I don't like being put in a box or being judged by a sterotype. I am a Christian with Christian values. But this Christian is PRO CHOICE!!

Posted by becauseHElives (Member # 87) on :

What does it mean when we say “YESHUA is LORD of my life”.

What decisions do we place in HIS authority?

Do we place our decision for an occupation, profession for our life in HIS will ?

Do we place our decision for a life mate for our life in HIS will ?

Do we place our decision for how many children HE desires for us to have in HIS will ?

The “Church” is full of humanistic thinking that is opposed to the thinking of YEHWEH.

The thinking of Satan is personified in his declarations of “I will “……..

IS 14:13 For thou hast said in thine heart, I will ascend into heaven, I will exalt my throne above the stars of God: I will sit also upon the mount of the congregation, in the sides of the north:
IS 14:14 I will ascend above the heights of the clouds; I will be like the most High

Humanistic thinking in man declares…….

I am in control, I will marry whom I please, I will do with my life as I please, this is my family I will chose how many children I have , on and on the list goes…….. do not tell me what YEHWEH’S WORD say , I live by Grace.

Never forget “the heart of any issue is the issue of the heart.

JAS 4:6 But he giveth more grace. Wherefore he saith, God resisteth the proud, but giveth grace unto the humble.

1PET 5:5 Likewise, ye younger, submit yourselves unto the elder. Yea, all [of you] be subject one to another, and be clothed with humility: for God resisteth the proud, and giveth grace to the humble.

YEHWEH declares children…….

Psalms 127
Except the LORD build the house, they labour in vain that build it: except the LORD keep the city, the watchman waketh [but] in vain.
[It is] vain for you to rise up early, to sit up late, to eat the bread of sorrows: [for] so he giveth his beloved sleep.
Lo, children [are] an heritage of the LORD: [and] the fruit of the womb [is his] reward. As arrows [are] in the hand of a mighty man; so [are] children of the youth.
Happy [is] the man that hath his quiver full of them: they shall not be ashamed, but they shall speak with the enemies in the gate.
In this day of the “Church” when a man is spoken of to be blessed , very rarely does it apply to having a home full of children. How opposite to the heart of YEHWEH.

To make a mistake in our thinking is human,
When YEHWEH shows us our wrong thinking and we continue to refuse to change, this is pride.

Posted by helpforhomeschoolers (Member # 15) on :

Amen! BHL

When we walk in the will of the Lord, and determine to make Him Lord of ALL, then we can rest secure in knowing that what he calls us to do he will also provide for us to do.

If God wants to bring 10 children into this world through your womb, he will if you allow him to do so, provide the means you need for those children. If he only wants you to have 2 and you are His and surrendered to His Lordship, you will not have three no matter how you try!

God does not call us to a task and then say.. do this the best way you can!

The problem arises when we try to do things our way and think we are living our lives for Him.

God wants to be Lord of ALL of your life.

Posted by leeprice (Member # 1377) on :

I don't want to "do things my way". I am just concerned about personal responsibility. I mean, I wouldn't want to jump off of a five story building just to "prove" my faith. If I cross the street, I don't just walk across blind-folded and think "Oh, God will take control of my life." . I look both ways because I am responsible for myself and I shouldn't test God.

I worry about people who just let the chips fall where they may- look at the results. Like I said, there are so many children that are not properly cared for. [Frown]

I mean no harm; I just feel like I have a duty to use what God gave me and not to be completely passive.

Posted by Rach (Member # 1386) on :

The Lord see fit to give me a wonderful husband, a man that I love more than my own life. He also has given me a wonderful career that I love. The one thing that I lack is the patience, the time, or the desire to raise a child. I can't seem to grasp the concept that with all the technology that God has given us, that using protection is wrong. I also DO understand that in God's time, we will become parents. I see nothing wrong with doing my part to delay that portion of my life. God has a plan for us either way.

Posted by JMJaneway (Member # 1450) on :

Well, I have to voice my opinon on this issue.
First of all I want to say that I agree absitnance is the only God approved form of birth control for UNMARRIED couples. Married couples is different.
I take birth control pills and have since I was 17 but I take them for health reasons as well as to not get pregnant. My husband and I have two children a boy 12 and a girl 8. I feel blessed to have them. Right now because of the status of my husband's job I have no health insurance or the money to have a baby. Granted if I did get pregnant we would have 3 children. There is no way I could abort.No matter the financial strain. But I would like to say to those that say I am not letting God be the the God of my life.. you are putting God in a box.I seek God's will for my life and if I ever felt God didnt want me to take the pill I would be off in a heartbeat. I got prenant with my first child while on the pill. So I know that if God wants me to have a child. In HIS time despite my pill I will get pregnant. God is mightier than the pill.

Posted by Light (Member # 1464) on :

BecauseHeLives....

The LORD has convicted my wife and I both that if He is LORD of our life HE is LORD of our reproductive process also.

Yes, but God gave us free will to make choices ourselves. Did you not try to concieve your children, then that was an active choice made by you?

One of the purposes of marriage is to produce a Godly seed...

God did say, "Be fruitful and multiply." However, there are many ways that can be done. Not neccesary by having as many children as we can in our life. A childless couple could mentor children and an infertile couple can adopt.

The LORD convicted us, I believe to chose how many children you are going to have is a sin to be repented of like any other sin.

Show me where the Lord has told us that. I'd like to know. And what about women who cannot have children. Are they not holy enough, are they not devote Christian. If God is trully the open and closer of the womb, then why are there faithful Christians who cannot have children? Please explain that one to me.

Birth control of any kind is equal to abortion.
How can you equate preventing conception, with killing an unborn child. I really see some holes in your logic and interpretation of the Bible

The reasons people limit the size of their family and the reason people get abortions are generally the same.
Oh is it?! I use birth control, so that I can have children when I am best able to take care of them. And you are comparing me to someone who willing kills there unborn child. That is an awful strong judgement from a supposed "Christian".

Posted by Kindgo (Member # 2) on :

Amen Light [thumbsup2]

Great post! Welcome to the board, looking forward to hearing more from you... [Cool]

Posted by Cameron (Member # 1090) on :

I don't believe it's wrong. I'm not going to bother putting in my arguments because they're the same as all the other pro arguments anyway, so I'd just be wasting everyones time.

Posted by Producer Tim (Member # 1456) on :

LOL I aree with Light too.

Abortion is a prosess in which a living, WITH spirit is being killed birthcontrol works befor life even starts.

If saying birthcontroll is bad, whats the diffrence to stop sex befor you lose controll or birthcontroll (after you go trough the whole thing)? In both cases you are trying to prevent somthing. So if you really think Birthcontroll is BAD you should only have sex when you want a child.

yes the bible says be fruitfull but than again in the new testement is says its better for a man to be alone. So how do you ballance that???? God leaves YOU the freedom to have childran have a family or not to you!! he is not forcing you to it and it will not be sin if you chose not to ever have any children.

Posted by becauseHElives (Member # 87) on :

Light you will find the answers to every point in the following.

No one that has disagreed has offered one Scripture in regard to their point of view.

Is your reasoning polluted with humanism?

This is lengthy , but if you love the TRUTH please read.

First off, have any that disagree ever read what a birth control pill does.

Oral Contraceptives--by Bogomir M. Kuhar, Pharm.D.
Since 1960, pharmaceutical companies have been systematically convincing Western women that oral contraceptives (OC's, commonly know as "the Pill") are the perfect birth control. But they have managed to conceal from most of the public the fact that oral contraceptives are not purely contraceptive: they do not alway prevent conception (the union of sperm and egg), they only prevent implantation of a newly fertilized egg. That is, they prevent the new human being from adhering to the wall of the womb and drawing nourishment. In this way, oral "contraceptives" are causing untold numbers of early abortions, probably far more abortions than are done surgically. …………….

Continue reading at
http://members.tripod.com/~CHERYL51/index-3.html

Here's an absolutely wonderful Bible study on birth control.

THE CASE AGAINST BIRTH CONTROL

http://www.momys.com/birth_control.htm

PREFACE: This is YOUR decision, not mine for you. I recognize that you can be a Christian and disagree with the position of this paper, so I don't want to unnecessarily make a big issue of birth control. This paper is intended to be a persuasive teaching tool that helps you make an intelligent, informed decision concerning birth control (hereafter "B.C."). Once you have made an informed decision, I do not wish to make further issue of it, because B.C. is not a major tenet of our Christian faith.

BIBLICAL BASIS:

God is Sovereign in birth. He opens & shuts the womb; He blesses with children. (The following verses are NOT an exhaustive list.)

It is GOD Who opens and shuts the womb: Genesis 20:17-18; 29:31-33; 30:1-2,6,17-18, 20, 22, 23; I Samuel 1:6, 11, 19, 20;

God helps and participates in the process of bringing forth children: Genesis 4:1, 25; 21:1-2; Ruth 4:13; I Samuel 2:20-21; Psalm 139:13, 16; Luke 1:21-25, 57-58

God multiplies children: Genesis 16:10; 17: 2,20; 22:17; 26:4, 24; 28:3; 41:52; 48:4; Exodus 32:13; Deuteronomy 1:10,11; 28:63; 30:5, Joshua 24:3; I Chronicles 27: 23; Psalm 105:24; 107:38; Isaiah 26:15; 51:2; Jeremiah 30: 19; 33:22; Ezra 36:10-11, 37; 37:26

The Bible nowhere encourages B.C., but everywhere condones fertility!
Pro-child verses: Psalm 127:3-5; 128; I Chronicles 20:4-5; Exodus 23:25-26; Proverbs 17:6

Children are a blessing that comes from obeying God: Leviticus 26:9; Deuteronomy 28:1-4; 6:3; 7:13; 13:17.

Pro-Fertility verses:

Leviticus 20:18 (abstaining during monthly periods increases chance of fertilization after period); Genesis 1:27-28 (the command to be fruitful has never been revoked); I Cor. 7:3-5 (Not compatible with "Natural Family Planning").

Anti-Infertility Verses:

Infertile manners of intercourse were condemned: Bestiality (Leviticus 20:15, 16), Homosexuality (Leviticus 20:13), Withdrawal (Genesis 38:6-10, Deuteronomy 25:5-10). In fact, all of these things incurred the death penalty.

There was no death penalty for improper manners of intercourse which were yet fertile (fornication and polygamy).

Semen is referred to as offspring even before it joins the egg: Hebrews 7:9-10; Job 10:8-11.

Childlessness is a curse: Leviticus 20:20-21; Hosea 9:10-17.

Having children is part of the whole picture of a family:

The Father is to provide for his family--I Timothy 5:8; Ephesians 6:4.

The Mother is to work at home and have children: I Timothy 2:15; Titus 2:3-5, Malachi 2:15, I Timothy 5:9,10, 14.

Children are a blessing to parents: Proverbs 10:1; 23:24-25; Mark 7: 10-13.

Parents are to teach children: Deuteronomy 6:7; 11:19.

HISTORY:

B.C. has existed for millennia. Ancient Egyptian papyruses have been discovered with references to chemical contraceptives. The IUD was used by ancient Arabic caravan traders. Infanticide has always been widespread in pagan cultures either through sacrifices to appease spirits or through abandonment (i.e. Oedipus Rex).

God's people, Israel, did not practice B.C. They WANTED all the children they could get and considered them an unqualified blessing. The one man mentioned as practicing B.C., Onan, was struck dead for it. (Onan's judgement was not due to a simple refusal to raise up offspring for the widow. If he wanted to refuse that duty, he could have followed the teaching of Deuteronomy 25:5-10, as Ruth's nearest-of-kin did, removed his sandal, and passed on the responsibility to the next-nearest-of-kin--which, in Ruth's case was Boaz. See Ruth 4:1-12. No, the issue was that Onan practiced birth control by spilling his seed.)

Christians have also historically not practiced B.C. This is not a Roman Catholic church issue--their practice is a carry-over from a time when ALL Christians did not practice B.C. The Protestant Synod of Dort equated contraception with abortion. Martin Luther, John Calvin, John Wesley, and many other founders of Protestantism linked B.C. with murder. The Pilgrims who founded our country considered B.C. as bad as adultery and disqualified anyone from church leadership who practiced it. The change of Christians in the U.S. to using B.C. has been concurrent with many other bad trends: feminism, higher criticism, worldliness, abuse of spiritual gifts and church offices, decline of purity in the church, and a lack of evangelism and discipleship. There is more recently, however, a growing movement in the U.S. of Christians ditching B.C. Obviously, we shouldn't base our position on whether or not OTHER people practice B.C., but if the non-use of B.C. has been a universal trend for the vast majority of Christian history, we should not lightly dismiss it, but rather examine WHY.

CON'S OF B.C.:

ALL FORMS OF B.C. INCREASE ABORTION. Contrary to what some doctors say, there is no such thing as a chemical contraceptive (Pill, implant) that does not cause abortion from 2-5% of the time. Although the primary function of most of these "Pills" is to prevent ovulation, they do not prevent all ovulation (people still occasionally get pregnant), so they ALL have a secondary function of irritating the lining of the uterus so that a fertilized egg will not be able to implant, and thus will abort. There are several other pills whose primary effect is to abort fertilized eggs; the IUD also does this as its primary function. Apparently, the body also aborts some pregnancies naturally at very early stages, without provocation, and all methods of mechanical prevention of fertilization (condom, diaphragm, Rhythm, N.F.P.) actually increase the number of these natural abortions by perpetuating the monthly menstrual cycle, which can be suspended if a woman gets pregnant often.

BIBLICAL SUPPORT IS MISSING: B.C. puts a Christian in the shaky position of Onan, who was killed. I Corinthians 7:3-5 gives the only reason for skipping sex--prayer and fasting, not to avoid children. Leviticus 12:1-5 and 20:18 establish a sexual pattern that actually increases fertility rather than decreasing it!

IT'S INCONVENIENT: I have never heard a single positive comment about diaphragms and spermicidal jelly or the female condom from people who use them because of what a pain they are to put in place. Using a male condom is not as pleasant as not using them (and condoms are not highly effective at preventing fertilization anyway). And, of course, it's not fun to go without having sex for long periods of time as per the "Rhythm" or "Natural Family Planning" methods; abstaining for long periods of time can contribute to the sin of adultery. Using B.C methods causes a woman to undergo uncomfortable periods every month, but going without B.C., periods can be rare.

HEALTH PROBLEMS: If you take the pill, you are five times more likely to die of circulatory disorders. The pill can also cause permanent infertility and a host of other major and minor problems. The IUD often causes lacerations in the uterus which result in severe pain and permanent infertility. Abortion is a serious cause of breast cancer. It is also a proven fact that the longer child-bearing is delayed, the more likely a woman is to get endometriosis.

OBJECTIONS HOLD NO WATER:

OVERPOPULATION is a local problem in some cities, but it is not a world crisis. If every person in the world today were given one acre of land (therefore families living together would have far more than 1 acre of land), everyone living in the world today could just about fit within the Continental U.S. alone. (According to agricultural studies, an acre would give far more than enough land for living space and food-production for one person!) It is also a fact that humans adapt and create new methods of coping with scarce resources. Over a thousand years ago, thinkers were afraid that the earth was too overpopulated then for the human race to survive, but we have adapted fine!

MULTIPLYING LIKE RABBITS: The average number of children borne by monogamous couples not practicing birth control is only five!

COST: The scary, high figures you see quoted are based on expensive C-sections, baby formula, baby food, frivolous baby furniture, not getting a baby shower, using day care, etc, all of which is unnecessary. It doesn't take long before children are old enough to become income producers, anyway. Additionally, God provides for His children. See Psalm 23:1; 37:25-26; 84:11; Proverbs 3:33; 14:26; Malachi 3:8-10; Matthew 6:25-34; Philippians 4:6, 19; I Timothy 6:6-10.

THE MYTH THAT CHILDREN OF LARGE FAMILIES ARE LESS INTELLIGENT is sheer bunk. 76% of U.S. Presidents came from families of 5 or more children. Almost every famous Classical musician came from a family of more than 7. Comparing an upper-income only-child with the 10 children of a dysfunctional family in the "projects" is comparing apples and oranges; intelligence is based on the intelligence and discipline of the parents, not the number of children.

STEWARDSHIP: Look at the famous passage on stewardship: the Parable of the Talents in Matthew 25:14-30. Who decided how many talents each servant could steward, the servant or the Master?

TECHNOLOGY IS GOOD. Not necessarily so. The H-bomb is intelligent, highly advanced technology, but that doesn't mean we should blow up the world with it. Simply because technology (such as the Pill) is available doesn't mean we should use it! We must first evaluate the moral ramifications of its use.

WHAT IF I HAVE HEALTH PROBLEMS? There may be exceptions, but are you looking for an excuse, or are you trying to be faithful to God? Although many doctors won't admit it, many female problems would be solved rather than exacerbated by having children.

BIBLE ONLY FOR AGRARIAN COMMUNITY. No, God's principles apply to all cultures. The famous verse about having a "full quiver" of children (Psalm 127:3-5) was written by a politician in a big city and was written about a soldier. The context is not agrarian at all!

SEX ONLY FOR PROCREATION? No, this is the Argumentum ad absurdium fallacy. Notice that there is a difference between sex to avoid children, sex to create children, and uninhibited sex. We believe the Bible teaches that the last of the three is the best! Besides, no matter which of the three approaches you take, you can't help having pleasure, therefore sex by its very nature is not limited to procreation!

A SOVEREIGN GOD CAN OVERRIDE B.C. Let us apply the same logic to another context: suppose a murderer were to say, "I've bought a knife, and I'm going over to Fred's house to kill him, but if God doesn't want me to kill Fred in cold blood, He will find a way to stop me." This logical progression is exactly the same as that of someone who says they don't know whether B.C. is wrong or not, but that they will do it anyway and God will stop them if it's wrong. This is not a logical position. It is irresponsible to purposefully not decide whether what you're doing is right or wrong! Here's one more question: "Why would God want to give children to someone who doesn't want them?"

CONCLUSION. Given the Bible's pro-children stance and its anti-infertility stance, given the fact that Christians have historically not practiced birth control, given the problems caused by birth control, and given the fact that reasons for using birth control are not valid, it is a reasonable and good conclusion that Christians should not practice birth control.

BIBLIOGRAPHY:

A FULL QUIVER, Hess, Wolgemuth & Hyatt.

ALL THE WAY HOME, Pride, Crossway.

LETTING GOD PLAN YOUR FAMILY, Owens,

THE BIBLE AND BIRTH CONTROL, Provan, Zimmer.

THE WAY HOME, Pride, Crossway.

WHAT GOD WANTS HIS WOMEN TO BE LIKE, Wilson.

WOMAN'S COMPLETE GUIDE TO PERSONAL HEALTH CARE, Evans, Wolgemuth & Hyatt.

BIRTH CONTROL - A Bible study

"Kids are a nuisance," is the prevailing attitude of the world. Is this Scriptural?

GOD'S VIEW OF CHILDREN. Leviticus 26:9; Deuteronomy 6:3; 7:13; 13:17b-18, 28:1-4,11. Ruth 4:11-12.

CHILDREN ARE A BLESSING FROM GOD. Psalms 127:3-5; 128. Proverbs 14:1; 17:6. Leviticus 20:20-21.

Childlessness is sometimes a curse. Hosea 9:11-12,14,16; Matthew 19:14.

How does Jesus feel about kids?

If children are really a blessing from God, why do we try to remain "unblessed"?

WHAT'S THE MAIN PURPOSE OF A CHRISTIAN MARRIAGE? Genesis 1:28; Malachi 2:15. There is only one purpose listed here! Genesis 38:6-10; Deut. 25:5-10.

Onan disobeyed God's command to marry his brother's widow in order to produce a child for his brother. The issue was not whether or not he would give offspring, but that he spilled his seed (i.e., practiced contraception) instead of using the Biblical legal procedure for declining the practice of levirate (throwing off his sandal). This is why he was killed. Based on Malachi 2:15, Christians who purposely prevent the conception of any children appear to be in the same precarious position as Onan.

WHAT ABOUT THE "NATURAL FAMILY PLANNING" METHOD? I Corinthians 7:3-5 -- Birth control is not a good reason to abstain from sex. Also, remember what happened to Onan when he tried to use a variant of the NFP method! Leviticus 12:1-5; 20:18 -- God has His own method of "natural family planning." Abstaining from sex during monthly periods actually increases fertility. Does it sound like God wants to prevent children from being conceived? (See Ezekiel 18:5-6 on whether the Leviticus verses are "cultural.")

WHO CONTROLS CONCEPTION? The real issue is not birth control but rather our concept of God. Do you really believe God is sovereign over all things? Genesis 4:25; 16:10; 17:2,20; 20:17-18; 21:1-2; 22:17; 26:4,24; 28:3; 29:31-33; 30:1-2,6,17-18,20,22-23; 41:52; 48:4. Exodus 32:13. Deuteronomy 1:10,11; 28:63; 30:5. Joshua 24:3. Ruth 4:13. I Samuel 1:6,11,19-20; 2:20-21. I Chronicles 27:23. Psalm 100:3; 105:24; 107:38; 139:13,16. Isaiah 26:15; 44:2; 49:5a; 51:2. Jeremiah 30:19; 33:22. Ezekiel 36:10-11,37; 37:26. Luke 1:24-25,57-58. These verses say the increase of the people is generally a result of their obedience to God!

POINTS TO PONDER. I Timothy 5:14 -- Satan can gain ground as a result of women trying to prevent God's blessings. Proverbs 3:5-6, 16:25 -- According to our human logic, not using birth control may seem foolish. What do these verses say about human logic?

Q. If God is sovereign over the womb, why does birth control work? A. If people are sinning by trying to control conception, why would God want to bless them?

ANSWERING COMMON CONCERNS I WOULDN'T BE ABLE TO PROVIDE FOR A LARGE FAMILY. Psalm 23:1, 37:25-26, 84:11; Proverbs 3:33, 14:26; Malachi 3:8-10; Matthew 6:25-34; Philippians 4:6,19; I Timothy 6:6-10. If children are God's blessing to us, would He not provide what we need to properly take care of each blessing? Note, however, that God provides for the righteous. There are no promises here for the ungodly. Does your concept of provision include such "necessities" as a large home, exotic foods, college savings accounts for each child?

WE ARE SUPPOSED TO BE GOOD STEWARDS OF WHAT GOD GIVES US. Matthew 25:14-30. The servants had no control over how many talents they were entrusted with. We are supposed to be good stewards of what God gives us. If the servant who received one talent had begged his master not to entrust him with any at all, do you think the master's reaction would have been any different?

I'M TOO OLD TO HAVE ANY MORE CHILDREN. Genesis 17:17; Luke 1:7.

YOU SHOULD SPEND SOME TIME WITH MY KIDS IF YOU REALLY THINK CHILDREN ARE A BLESSING! We will study this in depth in another session. For now, suffice it to say that the Bible is full of promises that your children will be a blessing if you exercise good stewardship over the gifts God gives you. This includes disciplining your children, having a good attitude about them, refraining from such verbal abuse as name-calling, etc., and, most importantly, teaching them God's ways "...when you sit at home and when you walk along the road, when you lie down and when you get up." (Deuteronomy 6:7)

WHAT ABOUT GOD-GIVEN INFERTILITY? You need to examine the situation thoroughly: Is God trying to teach you that He is in control or perhaps that you simply need to rest in Him and wait for His timing? Having to wait a long time to conceive a child will greatly increase your appreciation of the child. Maybe you need to learn that lesson before you are entrusted with a child. Is your infertility a curse resulting from your assumption that you control conception? Infertility is sometimes caused by a past sin such as abortion or using a birth control device that destroys your reproduction ability. God will forgive a truly repentant person for such sins, but you may have to suffer the consequences of your sin. However, God is in complete control of conception and may even heal you of your infertility in this situation. Perhaps God has a different purpose for you: Adoption, or frontier missions work where children would be in danger. Many Godly women in the Bible were barren--Sarah, Rachel, Hannah, Elizabeth.

Suggested Reading: A Full Quiver by Rick and Jan Hess; Blessed Events by Debra Evans; Letting God Plan Your Family by Samuel A. Owen, Jr.; The Bible and Birth Control by Charles Provan; The Way Home: Beyond Feminism and Back to Reality by Mary Pride; "Does The Birth Control Pill Cause Abortions?" by Randy Alcorn (http://www.epm.org/~ralcorn).

Back to Full Quiver page.

Caveat: Most of the information on this site comes from back issues of The MOMYS Digest, an email-only forum for mothers of many young children. It is offered in good faith and is not intended to replace medical advice, pastoral counsel, your husband's opinion, or your own good sense.

To subscribe to The MOMYS Digest, click here.

Posted by becauseHElives (Member # 87) on :

The Birth Control Issue

Jesus said in John 16:13: "But when He comes, the Spirit of truth, He will guide you to all truth." Jesus also prayed for unity among believers (Jn. 17:21-22).

Until the Lambeth conference in 1930, all Christian churches condemned birth control as sinful. Today, the Roman Catholic Church is virtually alone in holding to this ancient belief, as one denomination after another has accepted artificial contraception. This should be a troubling fact for many who believe in Scripture.

Was the Holy Spirit wrong in guiding all Christians to believe that birth control was immoral for some 1900 years?

Posted by INRI (Member # 1465) on :

quote:
Originally posted by becauseHElives:
The Birth Control Issue

Jesus said in John 16:13: "But when He comes, the Spirit of truth, He will guide you to all truth." Jesus also prayed for unity among believers (Jn. 17:21-22).

Until the Lambeth conference in 1930, all Christian churches condemned birth control as sinful. Today, the Roman Catholic Church is virtually alone in holding to this ancient belief, as one denomination after another has accepted artificial contraception. This should be a troubling fact for many who believe in Scripture.

Was the Holy Spirit wrong in guiding all Christians to believe that birth control was immoral for some 1900 years?

Well stated fact becauseHElives, that is a truth many churches have caved on in recent history. Why do you think that is and why is the RCC of all churches the only one that maintains their position??? [Eek!]

Thanks!

Posted by becauseHElives (Member # 87) on :

INRI,

The Roman Catholic Church realizes the importance of birth and child training , as do the Mormons, Islamic,

Very few Roman Catholics , Mormons, or Islamic children leave their teachings.

Fact that are now being gathered, show that by birth rate only in 7 to 10 years America will be a Islamic Nation (if YEHWEH does not intervene)

I assume you are Roman Catholic, and while there may be a resemblance to Faith in YESHUA (Jesus) in the Roman Catholic Church, the truth is it is a pagan adaptation of The True Faith.

I do not wish to hurt you, I am sure you are sincere , but according to the Scriptures those involved in the Roman Catholic Church are deceived, but be assured the Protestants for the most part are in the same boat.

Posted by Waterdog (Member # 24) on :

Excellent post, Light. Producer Tim said, "So if you really think Birthcontroll is BAD you should only have sex when you want a child.[sic]" (Tim, I realize we're on the same side, I'm just using your comment to further my point.) Even only having sex when you want a child is still going agains the principles of no birth control. If someone wants God to control their family size, then that means that it isn't up to them to decide when they want a child, so they couldn't use that as a factor to determine when to have sex. To truly trust God to control your family size, you must have sex every day of your married life, excluding those days the wife is already pregnant (since you can't get "more pregnant" when you are already carrying a child). That way, every day that you're not already pregnant, God has a chance to make you so. Any other sex schedule takes the decision out of God's hands, right? And how many quiver full people believe that they should have sex every day just in case that's the day God chooses to give them a child? None that I know of. God gave me a brain to think with. I'm not really great at math, but I know that with a mortgage 4 months behind (on a very, very modest house, not a 5 bedroom palace), a car payment 2 months behind, several other bills waiting to be paid, car insurance coming due, putting food on the table, etc. that we could not afford another child at this time. We hope to have another one or two in the future, but right now I'm thankful that God gave us the technology to delay expanding our family until we can truly take care of another child. And if, before we think we're ready, God decides we are, then I have every faith that He could make that happen, even though I am on the pill. There are a number of ways he could do that, too. He could cause me to forget to take it, He could make it so we don't have the money to refill my prescription, He could convince me that I shouldn't take them anymore, or He could just have me get pregnant while I'm taking it like I've heard happen to other women. If God wants a child to be born, He CAN make it happen, even when He wants that child to be born to a certain couple at a certain time.

Posted by becauseHElives (Member # 87) on :

HEB 13:4 Marriage [is] honourable in all, and the bed undefiled: but whoremongers and adulterers God will judge.

I never said sex was only for reproduction, but that one of the reason made men and women was for reproduction.

So far no one has given one Scripture in defense of your belief of birth control.

1PET 3:15 But sanctify the Lord God in your hearts: and [be] ready always to [give] an answer to every man that asketh you a reason of the hope that is in you with meekness and fear:

The only defense I have read so far, show a lack of Faith that YEHWEH is able to provide for HIS own.

Any answer other than the Scriptures are humanistic reasoning!

It is nothing to me, I see mysef as one that YEHWEH has called to challenge the hearts of all believers,

2COR 13:5 Examine yourselves, whether ye be in the faith; prove your own selves. Know ye not your own selves, how that Jesus Christ is in you, except ye be reprobates?

Posted by MAC (Member # 47) on :

In my view, it does create a lot of damage in the female parts, so in one hand can be of great help and the other can cause permanent damage.

Posted by helpforhomeschoolers (Member # 15) on :

You know, the Israelites wanted an earthly king, and God wanted to be their king, and their God. The persisted and God gave them Judges, and Kings.

If we stamp our feet enough and want to have it our way, eventually God will let us have it our way, but our way is never without cost.

Sometimes we get in God's way; He has one plan for us, and we have another. Will he work within our plan??? to a point.

But I have learned that I want nothing to do with my plan... I want His plan. My plan always leads up a steep rocky road filled with peril, but His plan is perfect. There may be rocks still on the road, but if I am following His map and not mine, I will encounter only the rocks that he wants me to encounter.

God gave us sex, and not just for procreation; God gave us the desire for our husbands and the desire of our husbands for us. He made us to complete one another, if we turn over our sex life to God and let him be the Lord of it also, our sex life will be the best it can be, perfect because it is directed by Him, and the children that come, will come by His perfect will and His perfect timing not ours.

Posted by Producer Tim (Member # 1456) on :

quote:
Excellent post, Light. Producer Tim said, "So if you really think Birthcontroll is BAD you should only have sex when you want a child.[sic]" (Tim, I realize we're on the same side, I'm just using your comment to further my point.) Even only having sex when you want a child is still going agains the principles of no birth control. If someone wants God to control their family size, then that means that it isn't up to them to decide when they want a child, so they couldn't use that as a factor to determine when to have sex. To truly trust God to control your family size, you must have sex every day of your married life, excluding those days the wife is already pregnant (since you can't get "more pregnant" when you are already carrying a child). That way, every day that you're not already pregnant, God has a chance to make you so. Any other sex schedule takes the decision out of God's hands, right? And how many quiver full people believe that they should have sex every day just in case that's the day God chooses to give them a child? None that I know of. God gave me a brain to think with. I'm not really great at math, but I know that with a mortgage 4 months behind (on a very, very modest house, not a 5 bedroom palace), a car payment 2 months behind, several other bills waiting to be paid, car insurance coming due, putting food on the table, etc. that we could not afford another child at this time. We hope to have another one or two in the future, but right now I'm thankful that God gave us the technology to delay expanding our family until we can truly take care of another child. And if, before we think we're ready, God decides we are, then I have every faith that He could make that happen, even though I am on the pill. There are a number of ways he could do that, too. He could cause me to forget to take it, He could make it so we don't have the money to refill my prescription, He could convince me that I shouldn't take them anymore, or He could just have me get pregnant while I'm taking it like I've heard happen to other women. If God wants a child to be born, He CAN make it happen, even when He wants that child to be born to a certain couple at a certain time.

Hey I totally agree with you. I was just trying to say that when if are like, birth controll is bad because it doesnt give God the freedom and what ever. You are doing the excact same thing with out birthcontroll. It work this way. Want it or not but the person has the choice of a child (in most cases) Right!!?? if you say not than how come so maney 13-16 year olds get pregnent? So if you are maired but you try to stop a night of sx just to avoid a child you are doing the same thing as birthcontroll. The word Birth-Controll means controll birth and thats what you are trying to do!! As I already said God gives the person the freedon. If you belive its bad, hey thats your choice and you shouldnt do it, but that doesnt mean that it automaticly becomes bad! If you dont belive its bad, after you have done some reaserch to come to this. God is not going to judge you for it.

Posted by becauseHElives (Member # 87) on :

So far no one has given one Scripture in defense of birth control.

Any answer other than the Scriptures are humanistic reasoning!

Posted by leeprice (Member # 1377) on :

I COR 7
"7I wish that all men were as I am. But each man has his own gift from God; one has this gift, another has that.
8Now to the unmarried and the widows I say: It is good for them to stay unmarried, as I am. 9But if they cannot control themselves, they should marry, for it is better to marry than to burn with passion. "

Sounds like Paul wishes everyone would stay single. Gee, where would the babies come from then?

Luke 23:29
"For the time will come when you will say, 'Blessed are the barren women, the wombs that never bore and the breasts that never nursed!' "

Sound like Jesus acknowledged that there would be times when people would not want to bring a child into the world. I wouldn't want to have a child in this day and age.

Luke 8
"43 And a woman having an issue of blood twelve years, which had spent all her living upon physicians, neither could be healed of any,
44 Came behind him, and touched the border of his garment: and immediately her issue of blood stanched."

You know, Jesus didn't turn around and tell that poor woman that she should go have ten babies and that would heal her problem; no, He simply healed her Himself. This reminds me of when I first went to the doctor for endometriosis, and the stupid doctor told me that he didn't want to do a hysterectomy because I had no children. I told him that I had had miscarriage and that my body wouldn't work anyway. After much struggle, I was able to tell him how bad my symptoms were, and he has considered doing a thermal ablation. Thank God that Jesus didn't treat women like breeding mares.

Believe me, telling a sick woman to get pregnant is about as smart as telling a diabetic to eat more sugar. [Roll Eyes]

Luke 11
"27 And it came to pass, as he spake these things, a certain woman of the company lifted up her voice, and said unto him, Blessed is the womb that bare thee, and the paps which thou hast sucked.
28 But he said, Yea rather, blessed are they that hear the word of God, and keep it."

Hmmm, I guess working for God is more important than having a bunch of babies.

Matthew 19
"11 But he said unto them, All men cannot receive this saying, save they to whom it is given.
12 For there are some eunuchs, which were so born from their mother's womb: and there are some eunuchs, which were made eunuchs of men: and there be eunuchs, which have made themselves eunuchs for the kingdom of heaven's sake. He that is able to receive it, let him receive it."

It sounds like not everyone is made for marriage and children. I don't recall Jesus having any kids.

I am not writing this post to be hateful ; I just feel attacked when people condemn those of us who cannot or will not have children. I do not condemn people who want ten or twelve kids. Let them have them. It will make up for those of us who don't have kids.

Posted by leeprice (Member # 1377) on :

Genesis 2
"18 And Jehovah God saith, `Not good for the man to be alone, I do make to him an helper -- as his counterpart.'
19 And Jehovah God formeth from the ground every beast of the field, and every fowl of the heavens, and bringeth in unto the man, to see what he doth call it; and whatever the man calleth a living creature, that [is] its name."

Not good for the man to be ALONE. Honey, marriage is a cure for loneliness. That's every bit as legitimate as producing children. [Wink]

Posted by Kindgo (Member # 2) on :

I believe this is another form of legalism!

Read Galations 1. And remember that Paul told us that we are to work out our OWN salvation with fear and trembling before the Lord. Just because some women have been called to have many children doesent mean that we all have.

In Gen 3:16 the origional Hebrew says "He said to the woman, I will greatly increase your sorrow and your conception; .....". This, of course, is when God is handing down judgement for Adam and Eve's sin.

The rate at which women concieve today is apparently NOT what God intended in the beginning according to this scripture.

Our rate of possible monthly conception is PART OF THE CURSE!!!

WE were not origionally intended to have too many children. And we all know that too many children are a burden, no matter how much we may love them. Look at how many children are sold into slavery in this day and age in third world countries because they cant control how many children they have. They are birthing out more children then they can feed, clothe and house. This is for real folks, just do a bit of research on children in Africa alone.

Hey you all Please dont let others legalism and taking verses out of context guilt trip you in to having more children than is sensible for you to have!

Posted by art (Member # 6) on :

There are many things that we do that do not have a specific bible verse for or against.This is one of them.
We also go to a doctor when we are sick or injured.Are we to trust in the great physician only and not use doctors?Will calling for the elders of James 5 cure all? I don't think so.
Somehow, this topic leans toward legalism .

Posted by CEPHAS (Member # 1463) on :

quote:
Originally posted by becauseHElives:
So far no one has given one Scripture in defense of birth control.

Any answer other than the Scriptures are humanistic reasoning!

Ah yes, humanism, how satan uses it in the attempt to corrupt the perfect Word of GOD. [Eek!]

Posted by becauseHElives (Member # 87) on :

CEPHAS,

My point exactly,

Luke 6:37
37 Judge not, and ye shall not be judged: condemn not, and ye shall not be condemned: forgive,
and ye shall be forgiven:

With what measure we meet out to others, the same measure the LORD will use to meet back to us.

I am not legalistic, all come short of the LORDS expectations, and we strive for perfection, but will never attain perfection till we put off this body of flesh, but are our mind set of this world or the mind of the LORD.

The “Church” in the day we live judges the world for abortion, but the “Church” in the day we live, is guilty of the same sin in a lesser measure.

If you chose to judge those who have abortions, you should make sure you are not guilty of the same sin.

Posted by becauseHElives (Member # 87) on :

Kindgo,

GEN 1:27 So God created man in his [own] image, in the image of God created he him; male and female created he them.
GEN 1:28 And God blessed them, and God said unto them, Be fruitful, and multiply, and replenish the earth, ………..

The first command given to man & women after YEHWEH created them was to be fruitful and multiply.

The curse placed on man & woman in………

GEN 3:16 Unto the woman he said, I will greatly multiply thy sorrow and thy conception; in sorrow thou shalt bring forth children; and thy desire [shall be] to thy husband, and he shall rule over thee.

I will greatly multiply 1)to become many, become numerous, multiply

thy sorrow 1) pain, labour, hardship, sorrow, toil

and thy conception; 1) physical conception, pregnancy, conception

in sorrow thou shalt bring forth children; 1) pain, hurt, toil, sorrow, labour, hardship

and thy desire [shall be] to thy husband, 1) desire, longing, craving
and he shall rule over thee. 1) to rule, have dominion, reign

Agreed YEHWEH multiplied 2 things (sorrow and conception)
This does not change anything, this curse placed on man and women is still in affect today. This is evident in that the earth is still waiting for redemption (ROM 8:22 For we know that the whole creation groaneth and travaileth in pain together until now.
, we still toil for our bread, and thorns and thistles still exist.

16-19 The woman, for her sin, is condemned to a state of sorrow, and of subjection; proper punishments of that sin, in which she had sought to gratify the desire of her eye, and of the flesh, and her pride. Sin brought sorrow into the world; that made the world a vale of tears. No wonder our sorrows are multiplied, when our sins are so. He shall rule over thee, is but God's command, Wives, be subject to your own husbands. If man had not sinned, he would always have ruled with wisdom and love; if the woman had not sinned, she would always have obeyed with humility and meekness. Adam laid the blame on his wife; but though it was her fault to persuade him to eat the forbidden fruit, it was his fault to hearken to her. Thus men's frivolous pleas will, in the day of God's judgment, be turned against them. God put marks of displeasure on Adam.

1. His habitation is cursed. God gave the earth to the children of men, to be a comfortable dwelling; but it is now cursed for man's sin. Yet Adam is not himself cursed, as the serpent was, but only the ground for his sake.

2. His employments and enjoyments are embittered to him. Labour is our duty, which we must faithfully perform; it is part of man's sentence, which idleness daringly defies. Uneasiness and weariness with labour are our just punishment, which we must patiently submit to, since they are less than our iniquity deserves. Man's food shall become unpleasant to him. Yet man is not sentenced to eat dust as the serpent, only to eat the herb of the field.

3. His life also is but short; considering how full of trouble his days are, it is in favor to him that they are few. Yet death being dreadful to nature, even when life is unpleasant, that concludes the punishment.

Sin brought death into the world: if Adam had not sinned, he had not died.

He gave way to temptation, but the Saviour withstood it.

And how admirably the satisfaction of our Lord YESHUA, by his death and sufferings, answered the sentence passed on our first parents!

Did travailing pains come with sin? We read of the travail of Christ's soul, #Isa 53:11|; and the pains of death he was held by, are so called, #Ac 2:24|.

Did subjection came in with sin? Christ was made under the law, #Ga 4:4|.

Did the curse come in with sin? Christ was made a curse for us, he died a cursed death, #Ga 3:13|.

Did thorns come in with sin? He was crowned with thorns for us.

Did sweat come in with sin? He sweat for us, as it had been great drops of blood.

Did sorrow come in with sin? He was a man of sorrows; his soul was, in his agony, exceeding sorrowful.

Did death come in with sin? He became obedient unto death.

Thus is the plaster as wide as the wound. Blessed be God for his Son our Lord YESHUA our Saviour..

We say we trust YEHWEH, do we really or do we trust in our abilities our strengths.

Remember the children of Israel and the promise land.

Ten men were sent out to spy out the land.

8 said there were giants in the land, no way can we go in.

2 said we are well able, YEHWEH is with us.

Without Faith it is impossible to please YEHWEH.

Kindgo says children are a burden

YEHWEH says children are a blessing, blessed is the man whose quiver is full.

As for me and my house , we will serve the LORD

Posted by JMJaneway (Member # 1450) on :

You know breast feeding has for thousands of years been used as a form of birth control...although not a very effective one. But they still used it. The Women of Bible days were breast feeding thier children for several years. Today if you breast fed a child till they were 3 you would get stares and ugly comments but this was the norm and a lot of times in hopes to NOT concieve for a while.
I do think God expects us to listen for His guidance. I have had 2 very difficult pregnancies and am in no hurry for a third so until the time is right(and God will let me know) I am protecting my health and staying on the pill.

Posted by helpforhomeschoolers (Member # 15) on :

How many of those third world countries are Christian? We are talking about Christian women, people who have agreed to His LORDSHIP over their lives.

In most third world countries like Africa where disease and famine and drought, and wild population growth are occuring are not under the Lordship of Jesus Christ, they are opressed by the evil one and under a curse! You look at the nations where paganism, hinduism, voodoo, and the like are the ruling religion and you see children being a burden on the society, the economy and the natural resources... but that is because Jesus is not Lord there. The conception of children has not been given over to His Lordship, in these countries children are being concieved outside of covenant marriage and raised in paganism. This is not the perfect will of a perfect God, these are examples of spiritual strongholds in an unseen realm!

Lordship does not equal Legalism and it never will. Let us compare apples to apples.

Posted by mikerica (Member # 1499) on :

Light

Calm down. People have the right to say and think what they want. I know that you wouldn't like for somebody to call you a "suppose christian" just because they don't agree with you. It's a question of opinion not who's right and who's wrong. God ultimately has the final word and if the person really wants help then they should fast and pray about it.

[youpi]

Posted by Producer Tim (Member # 1456) on :

quote:

So far no one has given one Scripture in defense of birth control.

Any answer other than the Scriptures are humanistic reasoning!

Everything that has been said against birth control was humanistic reasoning just the same!

We live on Humanistic reasoning. We are not Gods so we can only "reason" like humans . So if somebody says they can "reason/think" like God, look in the merrier!

The bible does not have ANYTHING that strictly or directly says birth control anything about birth control, for it or not, its just not written. If it had been the issue of heaven or hell, WRONG or RIGHT, CLEAN or DIRTY, it would have been in there!

About the reasoning, only God can open the scripture. And God opens different things to different people. So if you know something that you feel like God has showed you that will be great for everyone to know, shure that’s cool, but don’t automatically think you are right and everyone ells is wrong. And one more thing, what you think the bible says is what you think. The facts are with God and the person, not the public!

Posted by leeprice (Member # 1377) on :

Oh, yes, those awful curses...

Well, I thank God for allowing Jesus to remove the defeat of death.

I thank God for allowing humans to develop vaccines and medications to ease the curse of disease and suffering.

I thank God for allowing humans to invent tractors and plows, not to mention air-conditioned offices, so that men may not have to sweat as much in a field and die from the hot sun.

I thank God for allowing humans to develop medical care for pregnant women and babies so that neither should have to die at birth.

And most of all, I thank my God for having mercy on us to ease our curses which we had deserved, but He took pity on us nevertheless.

Thank you LORD!

Posted by leeprice (Member # 1377) on :

I thank Jesus for being loving rather than legalistic! [Kiss]

Posted by Apollo (Member # 1408) on :

Brothers and Sister's in Christ, Blessing thru our Lord and Saviour Jesus.

It is written 'Do not tempt your Lord God'.

What does this equation represent? 1+1=2

Why do you feel that a process which God has made, should be put back into God's hands to undo?

Simply speaking, if you have sex on the right day, at the right time, and providing that there is not any fertility issues-there is a big chance that YOU WILL GET CONCEPTION.

Thus, is why God never commanded us to have sex everyday, nor did he say, it was wrong to pull out before ejaculation (a process which he allowed).

If God wanted us to have conception each time we had sex, we would have made us like most of the animals. Where they start ejaculating before entry, and also where the female only accepts sexual relations during her most fertile cycle.

The issue which is not okay is having SEX and asking 'God not to get you pregnant' on a consistence bases; sure, trust in Lord. Moreover, also trust in the laws that he has put into place that allows such a great blessing as to bring forth another one of his creations to enter into the world thru your bodies.

Don’t request that God undo the natural processes-which he has already placed available to you. Essentially requesting that 1+1=0, we are so wealthy in the fact that God's grace so greatly covers us, that even in a time of crisis he is with us-thru his son Jesus the Christ that hears our prayers, use those times of Grace for situations that are beyond your realm of responsibility.

A large part of pregancy is within our realm of God provided responsibility.

Blessings, Brother's and Sister's in Christ

Apollo

Posted by my savior leads me (Member # 1439) on :

The Lord gave us a mind more sophisticated than any other mammal. now he expects us to use it. i believe that the marriage bed is sacred and that God does not have issues with birth control. he does have issues with abortion(i thought i had better clarify that as some people use abortion as a form of birth control.) these are issues that a couple needs to pray about together and discuss them together. now if the individuals are not married that is a whole other issue.

Posted by phaze (Member # 1688) on :

God works in mysterious ways. If he thinks a couple should have a child, who are we to prevent that?

Posted by honeybeez (Member # 1781) on :

Some heavy discussion going on here. Hmmm?

I am for birth control. It was given to us to use with common sense. But on the other hand, I will NOT judge another woman who decides to have several children with her husband. This decision, either way, is a trianglar decision. Between God, her husband, and herself.

Just some points I saw along the way...

Semen is referred to as offspring even before it joins the egg:
Hmm? Then why doesn't it live by itself? It believe it's referred to as 'SEED' in the word.

Very few Roman Catholics , Mormons, or Islamic children leave their teachings.

Very few leave because MANY will be disowned if they do. Just like my Grandmother was. (Catholic) I had a friend who was mormon. He was disowned...seriously shunned. People leaving the Islamic faith are infidels. I know of an Indian man who was jailed and later put to death because he proclaimed Christ and denounced Allah.

So if you really think Birthcontroll is BAD you should only have sex when you want a child.

1 Corinthians 7:5
2 Nevertheless, to avoid fornication, let every man have his own wife, and let every woman have her own husband.
3 Let the husband render unto the wife due benevolence: and likewise also the wife unto the husband.
4 The wife hath not power of her own body, but the husband: and likewise also the husband hath not power of his own body, but the wife.
5 Defraud ye not one the other, except it be with consent for a time, that ye may give yourselves to fasting and prayer; and come together again, that Satan tempt
you not for your incontinency.

Sex is a bonding of hearts and spirits between husband and wife. Oh yes, I know. Been married 18 years and it just keeps getting better. Wandering from this intimacy can tear relationships apart and allow the enemy a foothold.

Posted by TEXASGRANDMA (Member # 847) on :

We beat this subject to death two months ago. I am sad to see it brought out again.

Posted by honeybeez (Member # 1781) on :

Oh? I didn't know there was a shelf life on postings. My apologies for these unwelcome thoughts.

Posted by helpforhomeschoolers (Member # 15) on :

There is no shelf life on postings, honeybeez!

Welcome to the board!

Grandma just expressed her opiion on the dealing with this subject; I am sure it was not meant to offend you.

You are always welcome to bring something new to any thread you choose.

Posted by honeybeez (Member # 1781) on :

Whew! Thought I was being rebuked for a moment. Thanx for the understanding and the welcome. You are the first!
[Smile]

Posted by TEXASGRANDMA (Member # 847) on :

I am sorry honeybeez. I was really nervous when I posted yesterday and it was like I can't believe we argue so much on the Christian BBS. I am sorry if I hurted your feelings. I do think that most people are set in their oponions on this subject and short of Jesus calling us on the phone to tell us we are wrong, we ain't going to change our minds.

Posted by Eliana (Member # 1471) on :

Personally, I have grappled with this issue. In my younger years I was fine with myself and other women taking Birth control pills. I thought it was better than having unwanted children. I personally used birth control because I was not ready to have a child although I was married. I went from that to thinking certain kinds of contraception was wrong.

I worked as a Counselor at a Christian Pregnancy Center that looked down on Birth control because they suggested that Birth Control Pills acted as an abortifacient. I did extensive research on the subject and found this was a far stretch.

So I am well versed in the various arguement for and against birth control and contraception of any kind. I am also well versed in exactly what oral contraception of various kinds do inside the body.

I am of the opinion that birth control pills are acceptable. I think it's a lot worse to have unwanted children and end up mistreating them or resenting them altogether. I think it is much more responsible to use contraception in order to prevent unwanted pregnancy. I also think it is more responsible to have children that you can support.

Now I do have an issue with what types of birth control is used. RU486 (the abortion pill) is unacceptable because a woman has already conceived thus she is carrying a life, nor do I like the idea of women having invasive abortions as a method of birth control since that is taking a life as well. I also think sterilization is wrong because the Bible does give clear instruction reguarding it including the command to be fruitful and to multiply.

I have not made up my mind on the issue of coitus interruptus. Onan (Gen. 38:8-10)used coitus interruptus as a means of birth control to avoid fathering a child for his deceased brother. God killed Onan for this sin. So I am not sure if this is saying that act is a sin or that in that case it was a sin since in that custom and time a widow was supposed to be married to her brother in law and he was to produce a child with her to help carry on his brother's line..

Does anyone have any opinion on Onan's story ?

Posted by honeybeez (Member # 1781) on :

TEXASGRANDMA,

hugz2U sis. No prob. This is a strong issue that obviously conjures strong feelings. [Smile]

God bless.

beez

Posted by Aingeal (Member # 1953) on :

I've taken birth control for years (hormonal birth control). And the hormones you get from it really messes you up. It causes problems not just for yoru labido but moods etc...equally in a very hard time at home. And I KNOW I'm not the only one, cause I've talked to SEVERAL others and they have done the same thing.
God said thing sin Leviticus about woman being unclean and for how many days. You'll see if you read it he's basically telling you when she is fertle.
However, if I hadn't been on birth control we would have many children instead of the one we have, resulting in somethign very irresponsible. I know a girl who is a year older than me and has 3 kids, another who has 5. They both are on assisted living.
However I'm not saying I'm against birth control in the least. I do agree, being fruitful and replenishing the earth doesn't mean be a baby factory. There are many ways to do so. The Lord also said in Ephisians that no only a wife to obey her husband and love him, but he love and respect her in return. Which indicates obvious to make a choice together when and when not to have children. And God never said anything AGAINST birth control anyway. It isn't like abortion since you are not killing a living thing...since you don't give your body to send an egg down to be fertilized (hense become a living thing) in the first place. It's delaying it a while. Sometimes this works well, a husband and wife can make reasonable decisions when it's right or not to expand their family...a plan (my husband and I have one child, we'd like 3 more possible, therefore we have planned to wait at least 2 years before the next). I have seen where homonal birth control and non hormonal birth control has totally messed up a couples plans to have children..sad, but true. But there are many MANY children who do not have homes, in which most people opt for adoption. I think it's all in God's hands anyway, so what does it matter?..I mean really...
Besides, it's proven having children very close in age and being pregnant again and again right after eachother IS DANGEROUS to the body. You're body needs to heal.

Posted by Goldman01 (Member # 1955) on :

No one has mentioned other forms of "birth control" that I've seen. The oral contraceptive is not the ONLY form of birth control out there. What about spermicides, condoms, sponges, etc? What about (and I don't want to be gross, but) withdrawal? There are different types of birth control methods that MANY people use today!

I personally am in favor of birth control! I have not "aborted" ANY pregnancy! I have one beautiful child and PLAN to have one more!

I'm especially in favor of birth control when it comes to a non-Christian who doesn't want children and would probably abuse that child. What about cases like those? There are too many wicked people out there having children left and right "raising" them to be just as wicked as they are!

It's a judgment call! It's between you and God! What's right for one person may be wrong for another!

Posted by FloridaFormula5 (Member # 1945) on :

What must be remembered about contraception is what the very word denotes: the contradiction of conception. Putting it that way exposes it as a practice that is highly dismissive of God's power to give life. It is a measure taken by those who, though free of devious intentions, have lost sight of the holiness of the sexual act.

To introduce a barrier or foreign chemical into the sexual act remakes sex in our image, after our preferences. It does not result in the unity between husband and wife as God intends. True marital union is celebrated only when open to the transmission of life. But let's not just take my word for it; observe what our society has done to manipulate humanity's sexual powers.

For one, we now accept babies conceived apart from sex. Genetic engineering has removed the necessity for mother and father to even know one another. Talk about family breakdown! Our desire for sexual freedom has created the absurdities of institutions such as sperm banks, giving rise to children who may have tens, hundreds, or potentially even thousands of siblings without any knowledge of who those brothers and sisters are. Fathers, for their part, impregnate multiple women without any thought for the children they have generated or for the women with whom they have shared their seed. This is a gross distortion of what God intended, and it is shameful in His sight.

But the effects don't stop there. Just as we have approved of babies apart from sex, we have also become conditioned to accept sex without the possibility of babies! Some people can pretend that this option to shut down our reproductive powers liberates us, but it is common knowledge that contraceptives have become the chosen disguise for those who practice the very immorality we Christians reject when we marry. Right now, in fact, all across our nation, men (and to a lesser extent, women) are engaging in sexual behavior that is condemened in Scripture. Indeed, their acts are sinful regardless of their use or disuse of contraceptives, but many who would otherwise reconsider promiscuous sex find in various contraceptives a way to indulge in sin without shouldering its reproductive consequences. No matter what our stance on birth control issues, certainly all of us who acknowledge Christ as Lord can agree that these awful sexual practices account for much of why Jesus came to save us. After all, sexual sin more than any other kind enslaves the one who commits it and defiles his very flesh (cf. 1 Corinthians 6:9-20).

If contraceptive measures of different kinds are the chosen tools for those who do shameful deeds in darkness, why then do we give these things a place in our marriages? If we claim to offer ourselves totally to our spouses only to then withhold from them the willingness to become a parent, we are liars. And yet this is the very dilemma facing the Christian couple that practices birth control.

A wife says to her husband, "I give to you all of myself: my body, my soul, my mind. But there is one thing you cannot have: my potential to become the mother of your child." Similarly, the husband says to his wife, "I give you all of myself: body, soul, mind. But I will not give to you my willingness to become the father of your child." By choosing to reduce their sacred sexual union to a mere excercise in pleasure, the couple effectively says to God, "We are open to receiving your gift of pleasure that comes from sexual union. But we are not interested in your gift of life. You can keep that part." This, my brethren, is a sad state of affairs.

There is no way our moral and righteous God could look down approvingly on such grave distortions of His creation. Much to the contrary, He condemns them. But He does so because He loves us and wants us to live in the truth! Paul writes, "love rejoices in the truth" (1 Corinthians 13:6). When we choose the world's way, each of our relationships suffers: the one with God, the one with our spouse, and those with our neighbors. Let us pray a repentant prayer, come back to our senses, reject what is false, and return all control once again to God.

Posted by cynthia2003 (Member # 2470) on :

I think that birth controll is okay, as long as it isn't abortion. I am against abortion. I think stuff like condoms, the pill, and surgeries like vasectomy and having tubes tied are okay. I think abstaining untill marriage is good, but what do you do after marriage? Not all of us want kids.
I don't want kids. I have reasons. I really don't have much of a maternal instinct at all. The idea of having kids (mostly the giving birth part) terrifies me ( I don't know why, by giving birth just seems so scary!). Daycare and babysitters costs a lot of money. The reason I put this is because I'd go to work even if I had kids (I would return as soon as I recovered from birth). And 5 years of daycare and sitters (up untill they get old enough for school) would cost a lot of money. (I do think that kids are worth more than money, but still...you know that is a lot of money)Staying at home would not be an option to me, because I don't want to do that, I (I DO NOT feel that "the womans place is in the home") And one of the biggest reasons is that I would rather adopt. There are so many kids that need a family, I feel it would be better to adopt (especially older kids since not as many people adopt them). And don't want a lot of kids. If I do adopt after I get married which is several years in the future because I'm 18 and don't want to marry before I am 21) I would only adopt 1 or 2. And that is even if I do adopt (that is the only way I will have kids is adopting one), like I said before, I don't have much of a maternal instinct. So it depends on how I feel a few years from now.

Posted by LivingTwiceDyingOnce (Member # 2616) on :

God told Adam and Eve, Noah and his wife, and Noah's children to populate the earth. However, we have done this, and now people are even starting to talk about overpopulating the earth... [1zhelp]

(I don't believe that we'd overpopulate the earth by mass; I think it's meant by depletion of resources, but I think we'll all be gone before that happens anyway: the point is that people are talking about it as a serious concern, even though it's mainly used by pro-choicers... coincidence? [Roll Eyes]

I think not!)

In any case, I think that the reason we need birth control in the first place, is because we can't control ourselves. However, I also believe that our world lifestyle doesn't allow us to have as many kids as they used to have in the OT up to the early 1900s, because we have changed so much in the past century. Because of this, I do believe that birth control is okay, so long as it is NOT the morning-after pill or any other form of abortion. (Yes, I believe that life begins AT conception, and that the morning-after pill IS abortion!)

I think we should have the freedom to be with our husband/wife without having to worry "Are we going to have another child that we can't afford?"

~Kelly

Posted by helpforhomeschoolers (Member # 15) on :

Hi Kelly:

Are you aware that many birth control pills work by not allowing the fertilized egg to become implanted in the uterine wall?

This is a good article on the subject because it has an extensive list of references to support its claims:

Does the Pill Cause Abortion?

Posted by LivingTwiceDyingOnce (Member # 2616) on :

I'm not quite sure I understand what you're getting at... could you please explain yourself further?

~Kelly

Posted by helpforhomeschoolers (Member # 15) on :

You said you believe that the morning after pill is abortion. I would guess that is because the morning after pill is used after conception has occured. So I asked if you knew that most birth control pills use hormones that create changes in the uterine wall that do not allow the fertilized egg to implant itself in the uterus and therefore grow.

This means that conception has occured but the fertilized ovum is not permitted to become implanted and grow; thus if you believe that human life begins at the moment of conception, the birth control pill causes abortion because a fertilized ovum that cannot implant itself in the uterine wall is passed from the body and that fertilized ovum is a human life.

Posted by LivingTwiceDyingOnce (Member # 2616) on :

No, I was not aware of that. I guess I take it for granted when people tell me that those type of things don't even allow fertilization, but I guess that must only be true for some. Thank you for enlightening me, now I can be more aware of what I'm talking about when this subject comes up.

In that case, I rephrase my prior comment to simply, "Anything that kills the fetus after it is conceived, I do not agree with. This includes abortion, the morning-after pill, and any other pills that only prevent the child from living, and not preventing conception itself."

Getting sleepy... [zzzzzz]

Goodnight everyone!

~Kelly

Posted by becauseHElives (Member # 87) on :

Each individual will answer this question according to the measure of faith they are walking in.

But the spiritual part of it is narrowed down to how we judge others over abortion.

Jesus narrows everything down. He does not make it easier.

Jesus said about murder, that the act of murder is equal to just hating the person.

Jesus said about adultery, that the act adultery is equal to lusting in your heart.

If we are going to make a judgement on the persons that are having abortions or aproving of abortion, then we must be free of every aspect of abortion.

Ask yourself the question why do people say they need to limit the amount of children they are to have in their family by birth control?

The answers are the same as those that have abortions.

Until the Church is willing to trust Yahweh, in this area of life, it needs to remain silent in judgment of the world.

Yahweh wants to be Lord of the womb also.

He has said He will not put upon us more than we can bear. This means the number of children He places in your care.

Is birth control wrong?

It is no more wrong than abortion.

This is one of the things Jesus was refering to when He said "judge not lest you be guilty of the same sin".

Posted by LivingTwiceDyingOnce (Member # 2616) on :

I don't think that's a very fair judgment. Abortion is far worse than birth control (and that's even if you consider birth control to be wrong), because it's preventing life from beginning, instead of killing something. The baby doesn't even have a life to look forward to when you cut it off, because it completely prevents the fertilization in the first place.

Secondly, God says nothing about birth control... He doesn't even say anything about coitus interruptus, and what other way would they have been able to perform birth control in Genesis other than that? Frankly, if there was anything about that, then I would give it to you, and I would probably change my position as well... because, if you think about it, God wouldn't be telling people about stuff that they had no idea what he was talking about, anyway (unless it's like stuff in Revelation and other parts where it's clearly to one person, and you know what I'm talking about, about that).

So I still maintain that just so long as it's only preventing fertilization and not killing the child (regardless of how old it is), then it's fine.

~Kelly

Posted by pookeysan (Member # 2642) on :

When it comes to birth control and wether to use it or not.The first thing i would ask myself is, is Jesus the Lord of my life.Do i trust him even with my reproductive cycle.The Bible clearly states that God forms life in the womb.Who are we to thwart his purpose.I think it comes down to a lack of faith , and that God knows what is best for us.And just maybe we might lack faith in God period!There are alot of grey areas in the bible but then there are verses that are very clear.If we refuse to heed them ,then maybe the faith we think we have is a false faith.By praticing birth control its like telling God we are in control, we have no faith in him to do and provide for us what we need to raise those children.Either you have faith in God or you dont.Simple.

Posted by pookeysan (Member # 2642) on :

I hope ive hadnt offended anyone by what i said but i will repeat it again.When we think we know better than God it shows a lack of faith.You can sugar coat it, call it anything you want.Makeup any excuse,you cant afford it,its not the time, your afraid.It all comes down to a lack of trust in God.I know this doesnt sound pleasant,but none the less true.I look forward to many more exchanges of ideas and opinions.God Bless

Posted by LivingTwiceDyingOnce (Member # 2616) on :

One thing we DON'T want to do is tell people that they don't have faith, simply because people act on their wishes of not wanting children, and this is for a few reasons: (1) Saying this is like saying that we can just not try on anything, because God has control, and His will will be done anyway. This is retarded. If we are looking for God's will, and there is nothing stated that says what we want to do is against His will, or He hasn't been sending us obvious signs not to do it, then you do it, and if it's His will, then it'll happen; otherwise, it won't. It's that simple. (2) Nothing that we do is going to hinder God's sovreign will, so it's not like we can't take some form of contraception and not get pregnany anyway, because it happens. (3) There is nothing in the Bible that says anything about contraception, whatsoever (Other than the fact that He told us to be fruitful and multiply, but we've done that... so I don't think it's a sin to not just be popping out babies every year), and there WAS a form of it, that was coitus interruptus. Now, like I've said before, if He had said something about it, then I would probably not be taking this stand, because I think one type of birth control would generally be applicable to all the others, because, obviously, they hadn't been invented yet, and so the same general rule would apply to now. But the fact is that He didn't, and so there's no reason to believe that a non-existant rule would apply to us today, and not to them.

Now, obviously, just like I'm asking you not to tell us what to believe, I'm not telling you what to believe. I'm merely stating my opinion (which, if you haven't noticed yet, I'm not hesitant to give [Razz]

), but I hope you at least take it into consideration for the reason that you have no scripture to base your stand on, and so it's rediculous to have such a harsh opinion that is so ambiguous in the first place.

~Kelly

Posted by Salti (Member # 650) on :

Several of you have stated that if God wants a person to have a child, it don't matter if they are on birth control or not and you have used that to justify being *for* it. Then it shouldnt be difficult to grasp the idea that if He DOESN'T want you to have a child, He can prevent it. It is common for Christians nowadays to desire to do what they want and expect God to interfere if they are wrong.. but He does not hinder our will.. His perfect will cannot be done if we refuse to allow Him to be the Lord of our life, but rather ask that He simply step in when we mess up.

I have to go with BHL on this one..personally, for me, it would be out of my own will to make a decision to have or not have children, not in seeking the Lord's will (and so would "planning" pregnancy as well. But for those who have prayed over the decision and feel the Lord is leading them to use such, thats between them and He.

Posted by LivingTwiceDyingOnce (Member # 2616) on :

Salti,

I agree that some people use the argument of "Well, if God wants me to have a baby, then He'll make me have one, regardless." And though you may not have been specifically talking to me, this is not what I did. In fact, I thought I made it quite clear that [b]if you make an effort to see what God's plan for you is, and there is nothing wrong with what you want to do, [i]then[i], and only then, is it a good idea to try it out, and then if God doesn't want it then He'll stop it.[b] Never did I just say "Well, if God doesn't want me to do this blatantly bad thing, then He can stop me." That's as rediculous as saying "Well, if God didn't want me to do it, then He wouldn't have allowed me to."

The main theme of my last post, though, was that God said nothing of contraception, whatsoever, and so it's not a big faith deal if you want to use it. I mean, it may be that way in some cases, but the point was that just because someone uses it doesn't mean that they are saying "Well, I don't trust God with my family life. I'm gonna stop His will from taking place." Again, another example, that's like saying "I want to get married, but I'm just gonna sit here in my house and not do anything, and not meet anyone, and not take care of myself so that I'm halfway decent looking." It's not that we can just sit around and wait for God to do anything, but we can't go the other way and say "Well, I'd better do it myself, cause God's never gonna do anything."

~Kelly

Posted by Changed (Member # 2696) on :

OK, I'll bite ;-)

Understand as I write this that I am NOT judging ANYONE's choice. That is not nor ever has been my place or priviledge - that is solely our Father's place. I'm only sharing my personal aspect.

For years my husband and I practiced some form of birth control (never abortion). I did not trust the Lord - I figured I knew MY life and MY plans better then He did (Ha!) and that I knew better then God when I was ready for a child.

Without getting into details, I am now I am reaping what I sow (this being just one of many of my rebellions against God) in several painful ways. The Lord has taught me that HIS plans are perfect, it's just up to us to listen and obey :-)

My take on it now is that if I totally trust the Lord in all I do then it's no problem to totally trust Him when it comes to how many (or if any) children He blesses us with. It's just one lesson the Lord has brought to me and one I sorely regret not learning earlier.

As I said - each finds his/her answers in the Lord in his/her own way. That's just my view :-)

Posted by Salti (Member # 650) on :

Kelly, I was simply responding to the posts. Please understand that we all share our views here and I was simply doing that. You were correct in your statement concerning marriage/dating.. that we must not move too far one direction or the other on the issue of God's plans for us.. which was the point I was trying to make. It is easy for some to say "If God wants this, it'll just happen" We have a responsibility to seek God's will.

Now, as to whether or not God's will might include birth control is perhaps a better way to look at this than the way many did.. stating simply that they shoudl make their own choice and let God intervene if He don't like it.

As I stated, I believe the Lord desires for me to trust Him with the outcome and not to plan for or against children. I know people who have planned for children in ways they believed the Lord was leading for them. That would be between them and the Lord..just as would be the case for birth control in my opionion.. However, a careful study on different types would show you what is actually happening and you could discern whether they are methods the Lord would approve of.

The main issue here is that we all need to be praying, seeking the Lord and letting Him be Lord of all areas of our lives. Not tempting Him and forcing Him to pick up the pieces when we disobey. If something is against scripture, we can be sure it is against His will. But, if something is permissable, or is unspoken of in scripture, we must understand that that does NOT mean it is His will for us. This applies to all areas of our lives..If we want God's perfect will in our lives, we must seek it out.. not simply choose any path that is not obviously wrong and assume it must therefore be right.

Posted by LivingTwiceDyingOnce (Member # 2616) on :

I hope you didn't think I was being rude, or for that matter, at all more emotional, about my response to you than to others. I realize that you're just posting your thoughts. The only thing I was trying to drive home is that there are so many people who look down on people who use birth control, and I'm not saying that you were one of them, it just seemed that that's the direction you were leaning to in your first post.

Anyway, gotta get going to church. Until the next post....

~Kelly

Posted by becauseHElives (Member # 87) on :

LivingTwiceDyingOnce

I did not set the principle up, the principle is directly from the Holy Scriptures.

to hate is the same as to kill
to lust is the same as the actual act of adultry

it is easy to look at anothers sin and say mine are not as bad, but that is not what Yahweh says.

He says if I am going to judge someone , then I must be free of that sins affect in my own heart.

Birth control is the same as abortion, I have no ax to grind, I am not telling you that you have to have X number of children.

But what I am saying is that if the Church collectively or we as individuals of the Church, chose to speak out against the horrors of abotion and I do mean horrors, for I could send you picture that would make a normal person vomit, abotion is horroible, but if I want to be free from condemnation in my own heart before Yahweh and speak out against abortion, the smallest portion of my desire to control the birth process must be totally committed to Yahweh's will.

There are matters we are called to judge, but only after we have judge ourself and gotten victory in that area of our life.

With the measure we judge, we shall be judged.

Posted by ps139 (Member # 2652) on :

I think that anything that has the intent to prevent human life is wrong. I know that due to financial pressures it is not practical for many to have 5, 6, 7 children. But there is something called Natural Family Planning which if followed, works. It is based on the woman's menstrual cycles and eliminates the need or desire for contraception.

Posted by LivingTwiceDyingOnce (Member # 2616) on :

The people saying that any contraception at all is wrong are only speaking from personal preference. The fact is, God never mentions anything of contraception in the Bible. The closest thing He does come to say is "Thou shalt not murder." But this assumes that you're actually murdering someone. Like--it actually has to be alive? By totally preventing from getting pregnant in the first place, you're not even letting it start!

Anyway, I'm done with this thread. Not out of spite, but I could sit here and type the same thing, over and over, until I'm blue in the face, but there are still people who will not agree just because they've been brought up that way, and they'll just argue and argue and argue. My friends and I have beaten this subject to freakin death in my government class, and I don't plan on doing anymore here.

Good luck, everyone!

~Kelly