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Topic: Is our faith tested?
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bluefrog
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FOUND IN HIM....That is a good question, and I asked the same thing once. The answer didn't come easy. In this puzzle the answer is found in the word (Greek-telos) for end. If it meant in their dispensation it would have been (Greek- sunteleia).
Not convinced? Go to Matthew 10:22
And ye shall be hated of all men for My names sake; but he that endureth to the end (telos)shall be saved.
Note: What a time leap !)
Still not convinced? Go to Mark 13 and read it all, but pay attention when you get to v11, 12:
v11)But,when they shall lead you, and deliver you up, take no thought beforehand what ye shall speak, neither do ye premeditate: but whatsoever shall be given you in that hour, that speak ye; for it is not ye that speak, but the Holy Ghost.
v12Now the brother shall betray the brother to death, and the father the son; and children shall rise up against their parents, and shall cause them to be put to death.
Notes: Saints still hangin around with no where to go just yet....
This is the grabber...in v22 of Matthew, Jesus was telling them stuff but He knew that the Jews would not repent so the word "end" no longer meant "sunteleia" but "telos". Whew !
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Found in Him
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bluefrog...what makes you think that those verses are for the tribulation period? The Holy Spirit came and filled the disciples to be spokesmen- witnesses. Such as we all are who are His.
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~To Him That is able to keep you from falling and to present you before His glorious presence without fault and with great joy...to the only God our Savior be glory, majesty, power and authority, through Jesus Christ our Lord, before all ages, now and forevermore! Amen.~ Jude 24
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bluefrog
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As this kept running through my mind, I was wondering....When the Spirit finds us in a situation where we need to speak up for the Lord when asked a question do we respond of our own thinking or that of the Spirit ? Do we give the Spirit time or the ability to speak through us ?
Have we even considered such a thing? Most of us are aware of the scriptures in the book of Matthew (above)but is it possible that it is talking about now, today, next week...?
I'm going to hate myself for bringing this up, but according to Matthew 10:18-19, believers are here to speak for the Spirit. If that is so, and it is speaking of end times, and Christ has not returned (2nd Coming)yet, then how could He have come already and taken the elect? That is a problem that I guess will haunt some of us for a long time. Sorry, I didn't mean to change the subject. Now, back to testing. God Bless.
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Found in Him
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bluefrog writes...Ya know what ? This is a pretty incredible thing that the Lord is telling us here. He is saying that we will be His spokesman. One providing a voice for Him. Wow !
v20 For it is not ye that speak, but the SPIRIT of your Father Which SPEAKETH IN YOU.
Act 1:8 But ye shall receive power, after that the Holy Ghost is come upon you: and ye shall be witnesses unto me both in Jerusalem, and in all Judaea, and in Samaria, and unto the uttermost part of the earth.
Act 4:8 Then Peter, filled with the Holy Ghost, said unto them, Ye rulers of the people, and elders of Israel...
Act 5:32 And we are his witnesses of these things; and [so is] also the Holy Ghost, whom God hath given to them that obey him. When they heard [that], they were cut [to the heart], and took counsel to slay them.
Act 7:55 But he, being full of the Holy Ghost, looked up stedfastly into heaven, and saw the glory of God, and Jesus standing on the right hand of God, And said, Behold, I see the heavens opened, and the Son of man standing on the right hand of God. Then they cried out with a loud voice, and stopped their ears, and ran upon him with one accord...
His Bride has been tested and tried for over 2000 years...
Mat 10:32 Whosoever therefore shall confess me before men, him will I confess also before my Father which is in heaven But whosoever shall deny me before men, him will I also deny before my Father which is in heaven...
Rev 3:10 Because you have obeyed my command to endure, I will keep you from the hour of testing that is coming to the whole world to test those living on the earth....
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~To Him That is able to keep you from falling and to present you before His glorious presence without fault and with great joy...to the only God our Savior be glory, majesty, power and authority, through Jesus Christ our Lord, before all ages, now and forevermore! Amen.~ Jude 24
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becauseHElives
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good thoughts bluefrog , trust and obey comes to my mind.....victory is ours when we trust and obey.....
When we walk with the Lord in the light of His Word,
What a glory He sheds on our way!
While we do His good will, He abides with us still,
And with all who will trust and obey.
Refrain
Trust and obey, for there’s no other way
To be happy in Jesus, but to trust and obey.
Not a shadow can rise, not a cloud in the skies,
But His smile quickly drives it away;
Not a doubt or a fear, not a sigh or a tear,
Can abide while we trust and obey.
Refrain
Not a burden we bear, not a sorrow we share,
But our toil He doth richly repay;
Not a grief or a loss, not a frown or a cross,
But is blessed if we trust and obey.
Refrain
But we never can prove the delights of His love
Until all on the altar we lay;
For the favor He shows, for the joy He bestows,
Are for them who will trust and obey.
Refrain
Then in fellowship sweet we will sit at His feet.
Or we’ll walk by His side in the way.
What He says we will do, where He sends we will go;
Never fear, only trust and obey.
Refrain
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Strive to enter in at the strait gate:for many, I say unto you will seek to enter in, and shall not be able. ( Luke 13:24 )
Posts: 4578 | From: Southeast Texas | Registered: Jun 2002
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bluefrog
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Subj: is our faith tested ?
I just ran across a faith testing scripture today that might be worth discussing:
Matthew 10:18 And ye shall be brought before governors and king for MY SAKE , for a testimony against them and the Gentiles.
v19 But when they deliver YOU up, take NO THOUGHT how or what ye shall speak: for it shall be GIVEN YOU in this same hour WHAT YE SHALL SPEAK.
Ya know what ? This is a pretty incredible thing that the Lord is telling us here. He is saying that we will be His spokesman. One providing a voice for Him. Wow !
v20 For it is not ye that speak, but the SPIRIT of your Father Which SPEAKETH IN YOU.
This a message from the Lord when and if you are one of those that this happens too, so if you are here around the end of the tribulation period with all the suffering and things going on can you pass the test ?
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bluefrog
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Eden....Subj: is our faith tested?
You made a comment that got me to thinking:
And so does God test His Brides faith in Him, Just as we test Gods faith in His Bride.
It was the "We test Gods faith in His Bride" that I guess I had never heard before.
This is the closest thing I can come up about that. Christians are encouraged to "test and approve what God's will is." By doing that, our minds are renewed to match God's thinking.
Romans 12:2 And be not conformed (patterned) to this world; but be ye transformed by the renewing of your mind, that ye may prove what is that good, and acceptable, and perfect, will of God.
Then I got to thinking about "temptations" again.
I discovered again that God can not be Tempted by evil, nor does He tempt anyone with evil. But if we are tempted by the enemy with evil it can be a good opportunity to choose right from wrong and thus strengthen our life spiritually.
James 1:2 My brethern, count it all joy when ye fall into divers temptations;
v3 Knowing this, that the trying of your faith worketh patience.
v4 But let patience have her perfect work, that ye may be perfect and entire, wanting nothing.
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Eden
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Hi, oneinchrist, I wanted to tell you that what I appreciate is that, when all is said and done after "Eden, what are you trying to prove?", you have a sweet and kind and reconciling spirit. And I like that about you.
oneinchrist, you wrote quote:
Good Morning Eden ... I guess then that your question would be answered in that verse.........yes, it is tested.
Hi, oneinchrist, yes I do think that the Biblical pattern is that God tested the faith of all who thought that they were "listening to God" or to "whom God had appeared", like Abram and Sarai.
And likewise God has "appeared to us" thru His Son Jesus, and thereafter God also "tests us" to see if we "still love Him" or "if our affections have gone elsewhere in the meantime".
But also, God YHWH and God Jesus are CONSTANTLY LISTENING AND LOOKING AT US supposedly CHRISTIANS, to see what it is that we are actually doing...
Does so-and-so say that he is a Christian but he continues to listen to NON-Christian music? What lesson do you think God YHWH and God Jesus are drawing from THAT bit of information?
Or does so-and-so say that she is a Christian but she continues to read NON-Christian-related books like a good murder mystery or romance novel? What lesson do you think God YHWH and God Jesus are drawing from THAT bit of information?
God YHWY and God Jesus will conclude that "they are JUST NOT THAT MUCH INTO THEM".
Is our faith tested? Absolutely. Do husbands test their wife's faith in them? Absolutely. And do wives test their husband's faith in them? Absolutely.
And so does God test His Bride's faith in Him. Just as we test God's faith in His Bride? ![[Big Grin]](biggrin.gif)
love, Eden
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bluefrog
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God gave instructions to Moses that God would furnish food for the Jews. Specific instructions were given. They did not follow the instructions so they failed through carelessness as usual.
The men wanting to be a deacon are given tests on their life styles to see if they are qualified to be a leader. This test is given to each potential deacon thru the ages. Some pass the test, some don't.
The above message by Found In Him has some additional information on the subject.
I read these scriptures to say:
1. We may be tested in our Christian walk, and by passing the test we respectfully display our faith or trust in God.
2. If a person wishes to serve in a leadership position in the church they must pass a test designed for such a responsibility.
James 1:12 Blessed is the man that ENDURETH temptation; for when he is tried, he shall receive the crown of life, which the Lord hath promised to them that love Him.
Note: Endureth (Gr Hypomeno) verb form of the word Patience:
James 1:3 Knowing this, that the trying of your faith worketh PATIENCE.
Man may look on tragedy as the curse of God, as Jobs friends did,. Trials are however the means through which God's blessing can come.
We aren't to look for avenues to escape, but there can be one.
God desires that we mature in the situation rather than move from it.
Romans 5:3-5 v3)And not only so, but we glory in tribulations also; knowing that tribulation worketh patience;
v4) And patience, experience, and experience, hope;
v5) And hope maketh not ashamed; because the love of God is shed abroad in our hearts by the Holy Ghost which is given unto us.
1 Cor 10:13 There hath no temptation taken you but such as is common to man; but God is faithful, Who will not suffer you to be tempted above that ye are able; but will with the temptation also make a way to escape, that ye may be able to bear it.
Now, Eden, Let me ask you why you are even concerned about "not loving him"? The Lord is telling us about testing. Passing the tests is the issue here, not failing it. Can't never did do anything. Yes, the scripture says that if we endure the test we shall receive the crown of life. I don't think it is necessary to question the result if we fail is it ? It is all about HIM anyway and this is just another way to glorify Him.
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Found in Him
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I Peter 1:6-7,"In this you greatly rejoice, though now for a little while, if need be, you have been grieved by various trials, that the genuineness of your faith, being much more precious than gold that perishes, though it is tested by fire, may be found to praise, honor, and glory at the revelation of Jesus Christ "
Genesis 22:1-2 Abraham was willing to obey, but God stayed his hand to spare the boy's life.
" But He knows the way that I take; When He has tested me, I shall come forth as gold."Job 23:10
Matthew 4:1 Then Jesus was led up by the Spirit into the wilderness to be tempted by the devil. "
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~To Him That is able to keep you from falling and to present you before His glorious presence without fault and with great joy...to the only God our Savior be glory, majesty, power and authority, through Jesus Christ our Lord, before all ages, now and forevermore! Amen.~ Jude 24
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oneinchrist
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Good Morning Eden,
I like the verse that you chose from the book of James and how it relates so specifically to your initial topic. I guess then that your question would be answered in that verse.........yes, it is tested.
With love in Christ, Daniel
Posts: 1389 | From: Wind Lake, WI | Registered: May 2007
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bluefrog
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EDEN...Subj: Is our faith tested?
You said: And thus their "temptation" and being "tried" would have to do with....what?
The frog says: It's not taking our love away from Jesus and putting it on other things. It is more like praising God by showing your faith in Him. See the above scriptures again.
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Eden
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okay, thanks for those scriptures, bluefrog.
Let's look at one of those scriptures:
James 1:12 Blessed is the man who endures temptation; for when he is tried (tested), he shall receive the crown of life, which the Lord has promised to them who love Him.
The ones who LOVE Him will receive the crown. And thus their "temptation" and being "tried" would have to do with ... what? Something that would result in me "not loving Him", right?
Let's look up James 1:12 in the Concordance:
Mar 14:38 Watch ye 1127 and 2532 pray 4336 , lest 3363 ye enter 1525 into 1519 temptation 3986. The spirit 4151 truly 3303 [is] ready 4289, but 1161 the flesh 4561 [is] weak 772.
Luk 4:13 And 2532 when the devil 1228 had ended 4931 all 3956 the temptation 3986, he departed 868 from 575 him 846 for 891 a season 2540.
James 1:12 Blessed 3107 [is] the man 435 that 3739 endureth 5278 temptation 3986: for 3754 when he is tried 1384 1096 , he shall receive 2983 the crown 4735 of life 2222, which 3739 the Lord 2962 hath promised 1861 to them that love 25 him 846.
Strong’s Concordance
temptation 3986
3986 peirasmos; a putting to proof (by experiment (of good), experience (of evil), solicitation, discipline or provocation); by implication, adversity:--temptation, X try.
tried 1384 1096[/b]
1381. dokimazo, from 1384; to test (literally or figuratively); by implication, to approve:--allow, discern, examine, X like, (ap-)prove, try.
1382. dokime, from 1384; test (abstractly or concretely); by implication, trustiness:--experience(-riment), proof, trial.
1384. dokimos, from 1380; properly, acceptable (current after assayal), i.e. approved:--approved, tried.
In any case, it appears that all these “experiences” have to do with taking our love AWAY from Jesus and PUTTING our love on other things, because the ones who end up with the crown of life are those who LOVE Him. So the trials of life would be those that cause us to “no longer love Him”.
Just as Lucifer-Satan's temptations were to take Jesus's love away from His Father and put His love in alliance with Lucifer-Satan:
Luke 4:13 And 2532 when the devil 1228 had ended 4931 all 3956 the temptation 3986, he departed 868 from 575 him 846 for 891 a season 2540.
Love, Eden
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bluefrog
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EDEN...Subject: Is our faith tested?
Try this on for size:
Ex 16:4 Then said the Lord to Moses, Behold, I will rain bread from heaven for you; and the People shall go out and gather a certain rate every day, that I may prove them, whether they will walk in My law, or no.
Note: As you know they messed up again.
V20) Notwithstanding they hearkened not unto Moses; but some of them left of it until the morning, and it bred worms, and stank; and Moses was wroth with them. (Opps! Failed that test)
James 1:12 Blessed is the man that endureth temptation; for when he is tried (tested), he shall receive the crown of life, which the Lord hath promised to them that love Him.
Note: tests are tried for purification, to demonstrate that a certain quality exists in you. They are not used to cause you to fail.
If a feller desires an appointment in leadership he must be tested:
1 Timothy 3:10 And let these also be proved (tested) ; then let them use the office as a deacon, being found blameless.
Me thinks that according to the scriptures testing is for the good of the Christian.
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oneinchrist
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Hi again Eden,
I was in a hurry this morning, but I came back to review your post again . Yes, I would certainly agree with you in your proposed example of testing that you provided.......about the temptation to "take over the reigns of our own life". The reason that I agree with that example of testing is because I believe that in the overall scheme of things the testing of our faith reveals where we are really putting our trust.....whether it is in the Lord, His word, His spirit, and His will or whether it is in the world and its agenda. Now Eden, please understand that I mean this in a general sense..........for we know that we Christians still deal with sin in our lives, but that does not mean that half of our heart is devoted to God and the other half is devoted to the world.
With love in Christ, Daniel
Posts: 1389 | From: Wind Lake, WI | Registered: May 2007
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bluefrog
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One in Christ....Well put.
Found in Him.....You too.
Eden...You keep using the illustration where Christ climbs into your body and you step out.
Please consider some figures of speech here.
You weren't actually crucified physically with Christ. You aren't dead physically with Christ in your body. The scripture goes on to say, "the life which I now live" doesn't mean you were physically dead but spiritually. Christ is not your driver. Do you really think that Christ tells you when and how to turn a corner or when to hit the brakes?
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Found in Him
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Amen Daniel! Looks like the testing and trials produced some patience and integrity in you! God is the potter, we are the clay. He will mold men of honor fit for the kingdom! Men conformed to the image of His Son!
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~To Him That is able to keep you from falling and to present you before His glorious presence without fault and with great joy...to the only God our Savior be glory, majesty, power and authority, through Jesus Christ our Lord, before all ages, now and forevermore! Amen.~ Jude 24
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oneinchrist
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Good Morning Eden,
My reply to you would be similar to my reply to Michael. The Holy Spirit is our "helper", not our "do-it-all-er". It leaves room for us to respond in faith/put on courage in challenging/adverse circumstances........now if that isnt testing.....then I dont know what is.
Ive seen it in scripture and I've experienced it personally. Michael, you, or anyone else cannot convince me that there is not testing. In fact, the times in my life where I really felt God was no where around are times that I believe that God was really putting me to the test for what I say that I believe in.
With love in Christ, Daniel
Posts: 1389 | From: Wind Lake, WI | Registered: May 2007
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becauseHElives
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Peter speaks of our faith being tested by fire and of its preciousness. (1 Peter 1:7 NKJV)
Then a little later he says to those to whom he wrote, "Beloved, do not think it strange concerning the fiery trial which is to try you." (1 Peter 4:12 NKJV)
James goes so far as to say, "My brethren, count it all joy when you fall into various trials, knowing that the testing of your faith produces patience. But let patience have its perfect work, that you may be perfect and complete, lacking nothing." (James 1:2-4 NKJV)
"Blessed is the man who remains steadfast under trial, for when he has stood the test he will receive the crown of life, which God has promised to those who love him." (James 1:12 ESV) Remember love equals obedience.
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Strive to enter in at the strait gate:for many, I say unto you will seek to enter in, and shall not be able. ( Luke 13:24 )
Posts: 4578 | From: Southeast Texas | Registered: Jun 2002
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Eden
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In another Topic, oneinchrist said something to Michael Harrison talking about whether our faith is tested: quote:
Michael, I believe that our faith is tested.......and the Word of God is the measuring rod.
If you do not believe that our faith is tested, that is where you and I stand in strong contrast.
oneinchrist, let's say that I have faith that Jesus has come to dwell IN me, and that I recognize that Jesus is far smarter than me.
If I then say, Okay Jesus, YOU take over the reins of my vessel and YOU LIVE YOUR life in me, instead of me. Isn't that the meaning of the following verse?
Galatians 2
20 I am crucified with Christ: nevertheless I live; yet not I, but Christ lives in me: and the life which I now live in the flesh I live by the faith of the Son of God, who loved me, and gave Himself for me.
Now, let's say that Jesus sits in the driver's seat and I have faith that He is a Better Driver than me, then where would my faith be tested?
Maybe when He took a sharp corner that I was not expecting and MY faith in MY driving ability comes back up, as in, "I could have done that better than He did", and THAT would have constituted a "test of my faith", when I try to take over the reins of my life again, instead of...letting Jesus drive while i admire His Driving Skills from the passenger seat! But there'd be TIMES.....!!! ![[happyhappy]](graemlins/happyhappy.gif)
love, Eden
have faith in the ![[Bible]](graemlins/bible.gif)
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