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Author
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Topic: What part of God's FREE GIFT is NOT FREE?
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Michael Harrison
Advanced Member
Member # 6801
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posted
The difference between legalism and serving is that legalism is you thinking you are 'doing' the right thing, and serving is realizing that Jesus is doing the right thing, and you are abiding in that!
1Co 1:29 That no flesh should glory in his presence.
Posts: 3273 | From: Charlotte N.C. | Registered: Sep 2007
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Eden
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posted
Acts 10
43 To Him give all the prophets witness, that through His name whosoever believes in Him shall receive remission of sins.
That's pretty simple, isn't it? Although I do think a person must "continue to believe" and must be a believer when the person dies.
But, while the person lives and "continues to believe", God will bless that person while the person "continues to believe".
Acts 10
43 To Him give all the prophets witness, that through His name whosoever believes in Him shall receive remission of sins.
love, Eden
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becauseHElives
Advanced Member
Member # 87
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posted
as you read this remember Yahshua died , rose from the dead and sent the Holy Spirit that those who whould put their trust in Him might live in victory over the flesh...
good morning Eden....many think me legalistic, but that is so far from who I am, in the context of how legalism is viewed in your understanding...
is it legalism to love Yahweh with all my heart...
is it legalism to have no other gods before Yahweh...
is it legalism to not take the name of the Yahweh in vain; ...
is it legalism to Remember the Sabbath day to keep it holy....
is it legalism to Honor thy father and thy mother;...
is it legalism to not kill....
is it legalism to not commit adultery....
is it legalism to not steal....
is it legalism to not bear false witness against thy neighbor.....
is it legalism to not covet thy neighbor's stuff...
is it legalism to obey traffic lights or speed limits.... do I have to have some special power to obey these laws or just a respect for the person or person that created these laws....
Matthew 5: 16Let your light so shine before men that they may see your moral excellence and your praiseworthy, noble, and good deeds and recognize and honor and praise and glorify your Father Who is in heaven.
17Do not think that I have come to do away with or undo the Law or the Prophets; I have come not to do away with or undo but to complete and fulfill them.
18For truly I tell you, until the sky and earth pass away and perish, not one smallest letter nor one little hook [identifying certain Hebrew letters] will pass from the Law until all things [it foreshadows] are accomplished.
19Whoever then breaks or does away with or relaxes one of the least [important] of these commandments and teaches men so shall be called least [important] in the kingdom of heaven, but he who practices them and teaches others to do so shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven.
20For I tell you, unless your righteousness (your uprightness and your right standing with God) is more than that of the scribes and Pharisees, you will never enter the kingdom of heaven.
21You have heard that it was said to the men of old, You shall not kill, and whoever kills shall be liable to and unable to escape the punishment imposed by the court.
22But I say to you that everyone who continues to be angry with his brother or harbors malice (enmity of heart) against him shall be liable to and unable to escape the punishment imposed by the court; and whoever speaks contemptuously and insultingly to his brother shall be liable to and unable to escape the punishment imposed by the Sanhedrin, and whoever says, You cursed fool! [You empty-headed idiot!] shall be liable to and unable to escape the hell (Gehenna) of fire.
23So if when you are offering your gift at the altar you there remember that your brother has any [grievance] against you,
24Leave your gift at the altar and go. First make peace with your brother, and then come back and present your gift.
25Come to terms quickly with your accuser while you are on the way traveling with him, lest your accuser hand you over to the judge, and the judge to the guard, and you be put in prison.
26Truly I say to you, you will not be released until you have paid the last fraction of a penny.
27You have heard that it was said, You shall not commit adultery.
28But I say to you that everyone who so much as looks at a woman with evil desire for her has already committed adultery with her in his heart.
29If your right eye serves as a trap to ensnare you or is an occasion for you to stumble and sin, pluck it out and throw it away. It is better that you lose one of your members than that your whole body be cast into hell (Gehenna).
30And if your right hand serves as a trap to ensnare you or is an occasion for you to stumble and sin, cut it off and cast it from you. It is better that you lose one of your members than that your entire body should be cast into hell (Gehenna).
31It has also been said, Whoever divorces his wife must give her a certificate of divorce.
32But I tell you, Whoever dismisses and repudiates and divorces his wife, except on the grounds of unfaithfulness (sexual immorality), causes her to commit adultery, and whoever marries a woman who has been divorced commits adultery.
33Again, you have heard that it was said to the men of old, You shall not swear falsely, but you shall perform your oaths to the Lord [as a religious duty].
34But I tell you, Do not bind yourselves by an oath at all: either by heaven, for it is the throne of God;
35Or by the earth, for it is the footstool of His feet; or by Jerusalem, for it is the city of the Great King.
36And do not swear by your head, for you are not able to make a single hair white or black.
37Let your Yes be simply Yes, and your No be simply No; anything more than that comes from the evil one.
38You have heard that it was said, An eye for an eye, and a tooth for a tooth.
39But I say to you, Do not resist the evil man [who injures you]; but if anyone strikes you on the right jaw or cheek, turn to him the other one too.
40And if anyone wants to sue you and take your undershirt (tunic), let him have your coat also.
41And if anyone forces you to go one mile, go with him two [miles].
42Give to him who keeps on begging from you, and do not turn away from him who would borrow at interest] from you.
43You have heard that it was said, You shall love your neighbor and hate your enemy;
44But I tell you, Love your enemies and pray for those who persecute you,
45To show that you are the children of your Father Who is in heaven; for He makes His sun rise on the wicked and on the good, and makes the rain fall upon the upright and the wrongdoers [alike].
46For if you love those who love you, what reward can you have? Do not even the tax collectors do that?
47And if you greet only your brethren, what more than others are you doing? Do not even the Gentiles (the heathen) do that?
48You, therefore, must be perfect [growing into complete maturity of godliness in mind and character, having reached the proper height of virtue and integrity], as your heavenly Father is perfect.
Me again Eden, I not stupid I know I am not to the desired goal, but I am pressing forward as the Apostle Paul said and my expectation everyday is to be more like my Savior tomorrow than I am today ....
by the way I love Watchman Nee, I have read every book he wrote, even went to one of his Churches that was started here in America by Witness Lee...Watchman Nee was/is a great brother with great understanding of the scriptures and he did not teach the doing away with the Law!
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Strive to enter in at the strait gate:for many, I say unto you will seek to enter in, and shall not be able. ( Luke 13:24 )
Posts: 4578 | From: Southeast Texas | Registered: Jun 2002
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Eden
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becauseHElives had written to Eden quote:
Eden ![[wave3]](graemlins/18.gif)
thank you, becauseHElives, despite your legalistic side, I like your forthrightness, and I am thankful that you are saved in Jesus, for what a blessing it is to be chosen from among sinners who are all equal sinners? This I think you understand, andI bless you in Jesus for that.
becauseHElives, you tend to be a bit legalistic for me, and you probably have heard that from other Christians on this bbs, but you also have a real love for the Lord and a dedication to be a good person before the Lord. I get that.
But you probably come across to me, and to a few other Christians on this board, as legalistic (I'll use italic for now instead of the more bold "legalistic"), but there is a side of you which I know is devoted to our Lord Jesus and you love our Lord Jesus.
I think "your" legalism arises from you thinking that YOU can keep Yahshua's teachings. But do you hear what YOU are saying? YOU want to keep YAHSHUA'S TEACHINGS? Are you now Yahshua that you should be able to DO HIS TEACHINGS?
I, instead, following more the Christian teachings of Watchman Nee, et al., think that I need to "cease from my own works, and let God do the thinking for me", so that it is not ME who TRIES to keep the teachings of Yahshua, but it is God or Yashua Who, in me, looks at my stuff going on in my life and HE guides me "what I should do next", to me it is more like that, becauseHElives, is that not different?
love, Eden
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becauseHElives
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Member # 87
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posted
Eden ![[thumbsup2]](graemlins/thumbsup2.gif)
oneinchrist
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Strive to enter in at the strait gate:for many, I say unto you will seek to enter in, and shall not be able. ( Luke 13:24 )
Posts: 4578 | From: Southeast Texas | Registered: Jun 2002
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oneinchrist
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Member # 6532
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posted
Good morning Eden,
I am in kind of a hurry so I will try to answer quickly. In the explanation that I gave about what Paul means by the "free gift", (free gift = Jesus) I was hoping to convey the message that there is no taking back of the free gift.......because.....God already sacrificed His Son.
As far as repentance and believing are concerned..........in my post I was not paying careful attention to try and show a chronological sequence of events..........I was just focusing overall more on the essential responses of man. It does seem to make sense to me though, that, if a man chooses to believe in Jesus, that he will respond to the call to repentance.
With love in Christ, Daniel
Posts: 1389 | From: Wind Lake, WI | Registered: May 2007
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Eden
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oneinchrist also wrote quote:
The gospels also show us there is a call to repentance that cannot be ignored if we believe in Jesus and desire to be forgiven.
I think you have that partially upside down. We do not first believe in Jesus and THEN we have a call to repentance. Believe me, sinners have to REPENT first and THEN they can believe in Jesus.
Basically we only need to repent OF ONE THING, and that is of operating our own life in our own soul power.
As we go on with God and Jesus, we will try to take up the reins of our life again instead of "letting God and Jesus guide our life", and that thing that we REPENT of doing over and over, of "taking up the reins of our own life again".
For when we let God and Jesus through the Holy Spirit guide our lives (i.e., "we have ceased from our own works"), God does not and cannot sin, so when we let God, there is no sin.
But the moment we take the reins of our own life up again, we sin quickly because the soul is not designed for operating our life.
So we only need to repent of one thing, both BEFORE we believe in Jesus, and then AFTER we believe in Jesus: namely, to get out of the way and Let God.
love, Eden
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Eden
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hi, oneinchrist, you wrote to Eden quote:
A sincere heart is what God is looking for........no one can fake it with God for he tests the hearts of men.
Yes, I think that is right. The other day I saw a verse of "God who looks at the heart", which spoke to me:
Luke 16:15
And He said to them, You are they who justify yourselves before men; but God knows your hearts: for that which is highly esteemed among men is abomination in the sight of God.
Basically the verse says, Look, God does not care what I say or do, God looks at the heart and God can tell if my heart is sincere or not in what the heart believes about Jesus and God.
It's not rocket sience; eiher the heart believes sincerely or it does not; God knows the difference, and that settles the matter to God.
But presumably God checks back now and then to see what the heart is currently believing...or actually, God will know right away when a heart that was sincere,is no longer sincere? And then what?
love, Eden
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Eden
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oneinchrist wrote to Eden quote:
The "free gift" becomes ours if we have responded in repentance towards God and faith towards the Lord Jesus.
So we receive this "free gift" (which is Jesus)...when we respond in repentance and faith toward Jesus. Do we receive this "free gift", say, right after the first repentance and first faith in Jesus, right then we receive this "free gift"?
And will God who is Love maybe take this "free gift" BACK again, if we who have received the "free gift", uhh, do what exactly to make God so mad that He takes His "free gift back" (what we humans call derogatorily "an Indian giver"?
Would God take a "free gift" back????
love, Eden
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oneinchrist
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Member # 6532
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Hi Eden,
The "free gift" is Jesus who was sent as a sacrifice for our sin. The word "free" in this context is an emphasis on the "unconditional love" that God showed the whole world despite our state of sin.
The "free gift" becomes ours if we have responded in repentance towards God and faith towards the Lord Jesus. A sincere heart is what God is looking for........no one can fake it with God for he tests the hearts of men.
The Seed and the Sower parable shows us that the enemy will attempt to draw us back into the world and take away what was sown in our hearts. This is certainly a test of our sincerety towards God and loyalty towards Jesus. If we were to fail, it would not be because God is not able to keep or sustain us, it would be because we were enticed by what the world has to offer and chosen of our own accord to put the Lord on the backburner.
Eden, please do not get the impression that I propose that a man somehow earns grace. No man on earth can say he deserved to have a savior die for his sins..........but we still cant get past the truth that.......
the gospels clearly show us that there is a call to discipleship that cannot be ignored if we believe in Jesus and desire to be sanctified. The gospels also show us there is a call to repentance that cannot be ignored if we believe in Jesus and desire to be forgiven.
The bottom line is .........if we are sincere in our repentance towards God and in our faith towards Jesus we do not have to worry that God will go back on His word. Let each man examine his own heart.
With love in Christ, Daniel
Posts: 1389 | From: Wind Lake, WI | Registered: May 2007
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becauseHElives
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Member # 87
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Eden , Yahweh doesn't ever take back His free gift but many foolish individuals throw His free gift back in His Face!
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Strive to enter in at the strait gate:for many, I say unto you will seek to enter in, and shall not be able. ( Luke 13:24 )
Posts: 4578 | From: Southeast Texas | Registered: Jun 2002
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Eden
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Romans 5:15
But not as the offence, so also is the free gift. For if through the offence of one many be dead, much more the grace of God, and the gift by grace, which is by one man, Jesus Christ, has abounded unto many.
Romans 5:16
And not as it was by one that sinned, so is the gift: for the judgment was by one to condemnation, but the free gift is of many offences unto justification.
Romans 5:18
Therefore as by the offence of one judgment came upon all men to condemnation; even so by the righteousness of one the free gift came upon all men unto justification of life.
The Bible further says that God made men in the likeness of God:
Genesis 5:1
This is the book of the generations of Adam. In the day that God created man, in the likeness of God made He him.
Now, among mere men it is already rare that a person gives another person A GIFT and then that GIFT IS TAKEN BACK by the person who gave it. It is almost UNHEARD OF among mortal men.
So man was made in the likeness of God. Would God WHO IS LOVE TAKE HIS FREE GIFT BACK AGAIN once He has given it??? ![[Confused]](confused.gif)
The God I know is a God of LOVE. Would God take His gift back again?
Romans 5:15
But not as the offence, so also is the free gift. For if through the offence of one many be dead, much more the grace of God, and the gift by grace, which is by one man, Jesus Christ, has abounded to many.
Does that sound like a FREE GIFT that will be TAKEN BACK?
But suddenly this starts to sound like OSAS and non-OSAS again, because, when WHEN DOES GOD GIVE THE GIFT to men?
Is it, as the OSAS people maintain, the free gift is given WHEN WE FIRST SINCERELY BELIEVE and then the free gift is kept for life no matter what happens in that person's life after FIRST SINCERELY BELIEVING that Jesus died in our place.
Or is the FREE GIFT given as the NON-OSAS people who think that the FREE GIFT IS GIVEN ONLY IF WE DIE BELIEVING that Jesus died in our place.
That is, it IS a FREE GIFT, but this FREE GIFT is not given until we DIE STILL BELIEVING.
On the other hand, if the FREE GIFT is NOT GIVEN until I DIE, then how can God GIVE ME THE HOLY SPIRIT RIGHT NOW?
Because the Bible does say that we NOW receive the earnest (down payment, a portion of) the Holy Spirit in the moment that we sincerely believe in Jesus.
So how can the FREE GIFT be given at the END of one's life, if the HOLY SPIRIT, which practically IS THE FREE GIFT, is already given upon FIRST BELIEVING?
But, will GOD TAKE BACK HIS FREE GIFT? It is only a TAKE BACK if God gives me His free gift NOW upon believing.
Perhaps I should ask once again what the FREE GIFT actually consists of? ![[Big Grin]](biggrin.gif)
Romans 5:15
But not as the offence, so also is the free gift. For if through the offence of one many be dead, much more the grace of God and the gift by grace, which is by one man, Jesus Christ, has abounded to many.
Romans 5:16
And not as it was by one who sinned, is the gift: for the judgment was by one to condemnation, but the free gift is of many offences unto justification.
Romans 5:18
Therefore as by the offence of one judgment came upon all men to condemnation; even so by the righteousness of one the free gift came upon all men unto justification of life.
When did this free gift come upon all men? Since the free gift abound unto justification, I am justified right upon believing. And I stay justified as long as I believe in Jesus. But if I stop believing in Jesus, do I no longer have access to the Holy Spirit?
with love, Eden
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