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Author
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Topic: Body Soul Spirit
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Billy
Advanced Member
Member # 7193
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posted
quote:
MH said -
Paul said: "Be ye followers of me, even as I also am of Christ." What did he mean, "Be followers of me?" He had just 'discussed' being puffed up for one over another. Then he seems to point to 'himself' when he says to "Follow me." But what he was saying was "Do as I do, insomuch as he was saying believe what I believe." And the second half of the verse indicates even more closely what one should 'do', for he said, even as I also am of Christ. So he could have said "Be 'of' Christ."
Paul went to great lengths to prove his authority, as an apostle, to the Corinthians. However, you show up on this board and just expect us to accept that what you say comes witht he authority of God. Do you claim to be an apostle? If not, then why do you believe that you can come to this board and tell others what is wrong with them without providing them with the location within the scriptures that you have derived your 'wisdom'?
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MH said -
That is not as simple as 'self-election', to be 'of' Christ.
Are you accusing me, or anyone else on this board for that matter, of having 'elected' ourselves, apart from Christ? From what scriptural basis do you do this? It is apparent, by your words that you are full of contempt for others, rather than love. I've yet to read a post where you disagreed with someone in which you did not cast doubt upon the validity of their salvation. Have you supplanted God? Has he placed you on the judgment seat?
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MH said -
You are looking for something to 'do' when you read my posts. That is why you are looking for the scripture.
You do not know my heart. Are you so full of presumptuousness and divisiveness that you would actually rale against someone regarding the inner workings of their heart? Only God knows the heart of man. Do you believe yourself to be omniscient?
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MH said -
If you were looking for HIM, you would find the verses in scripture, for they are there.
Yet again, you accuse me of not looking for Christ? Read all of my posts, not just the ones that I have posted in response to your venom, and tell me where I have purposefully misquoted or taken the Bible out of context.
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MH said -
But will you obligate me to you?
Where have I heard this before? Oh, I remember...
Genesis 4:9
9 Then the LORD said to Cain, "Where is Abel your brother?" He said,"I do not know. Am I my brother's keeper?"
Through the grace given us, by Christ, we are obligated to Him and to humanity to expose the scriptures to all. ESPECIALLY to one another. The epistles are repleat with verses that point to the obligation that we have to care for and teach one another, as the body of Christ.
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MH said -
Who cares about body soul and spirit?
That is not how I asked the question. I said, "Who cares about the make up of the body, soul and spirit?" The Bible does not concern itself with explaining the science of these things. It speaks of them as realities, but all doctrines surrounding the exact makeup of them (or how they are constructed or bound together) boil down to mere speculation. All we know is that Christ holds all things together, and we are only spiritually alive through the Spirit of God. This is all that is important.
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MH said -
"The word of God is quick and powerful, sharper than a two edged sword, piercing to the dividing asunder of soul and spirit, and is a discerner of the thoughts and intent of the heart." This says that the word, properly understood pierces to the heart and divides into two, the soul and spirit. What is important about that? It is important enough to put a scripture in the Bible concerning it. I am sorry that you miss it. What else might you miss?
Would you now isolate obscure verses, and take them out of context, in order to come up with a doctrine that you believe to be essential for salvation? Careful, for that is the route of the Watchtower Society and the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints. If it is your goal to start a cult, you need not stray from your current path, in order to achieve it.
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MH said -
It also says that it is a discerner of the thoughts and intents - of the heart. That means that it reveals what is in the heart. For, what one believes in their heart makes the difference in what they see.
Wrong! That is not what that verse means! The word is the mirror by which we can judge the condition of our hearts. It has nothing to do with what is believed, but in Whom we believe. He will correct our misunderstandings in His due time. The thoughts and intents, not the beliefs, are what is at stake here. Our thoughts and intents are what condemns us. Read the ten commandments. Read what Jesus said regarding the ten commandments. He took them and projected them from the physical, outward acts of obedience to the thoughts and intents within the hearts of the hearers.
Surely you can see in that very verse where the writer of Hebrews is telling his readers that the word of God cuts through all the walls that we build. It cuts through the soul, which is evil in the unbeliever. It cuts through the spirit, which is dead in the unbeliever. And it goes right to the heart. The heart is where God has chosen work with men.
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MH said -
Even better stated, what one believes in their heart, makes the difference in 'who' they see.
Jeremiah 17:9
9 The heart is deceitful above all things and beyond cure. Who can understand it?
Do not rely on your beliefs to determine the condition of your heart. Your beliefs are intellectual, in nature. Thus, this is mere intellectualism. This is nothing more than a conscious choice to live in the realm of philosophy with no real understanding of love. Your heart is the realm of God. It is through our thoughts, intentions and actions that we can determine the condition of our hearts. If our thoughts, intentions and actions do not line up with the Bible, we have no integrity, and He is not in us.
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MH said -
If you are offended there may be a reason that accusing me will not circumvent.
I have not accused you of anything, but have merely pointed out how you have accused others. I further pointed to SCRIPTURE to show you how your methods are unbiblical. I leave the arena of making assumptions and casting accusations to you.
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MH said -
You might want to rethink it before you correct me. For I'm not sure I 'recognize' your scorn, son?
The arrogance in this statement is so blatant that I need not say anything in defense.
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MH said -
If your heart is misguided you will not see the fruit in my words.
Please list for us the fruit of the Spirit, so that we atleast know that you know what they are. As it is, it doesn't appear as though you do. Rather, I see more of the deeds of the flesh, in your posts.
Galatians 5:19-21
19 Now the deeds of the flesh are evident, which are: immorality, impurity, sensuality, 20 idolatry, sorcery, enmities, strife, jealousy, outbursts of anger, disputes, dissensions, factions, 21 envying, drunkenness, carousing, and things like these, of which I forewarn you, just as I have forewarned you, that those who practice such things will not inherit the kingdom of God.
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MH said -
I am however obligated to HIM, to speak them (my words)
That is assuming that they are scriptural, though you don't have a very good track record of providing scriptural support for your 'words'.
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MH said -
My ear is open to you, but my obligation is to Him. If you speak by Him, I will hear. If you do not speak by Him, I will address it, but if you will only hear it wrong, how will you be edified?
Posts: 217 | From: overseas | Registered: Jun 2008
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WildB
Moderator
Member # 2917
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posted
quote:
Originally posted by Michael Harrison:
You might want to rethink it before you correct me. For I'm not sure I 'recognize' your scorn, son?
Sad~ Are you despising this Miltary Mans youth?
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That is all.....
Posts: 8775 | From: USA, MICHIGAN | Registered: Mar 2004
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WildB
Moderator
Member # 2917
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posted
quote:
Originally posted by Eden:
Dear Billy, please identify WHO you are quoting to make it easier on all of us. Thanks, Eden
Oh I think it is clear to all.
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That is all.....
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Eden
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posted
Dear Billy, please identify WHO you are quoting to make it easier on all of us. Thanks, Eden
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Eden
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posted
Satan likes to talk to the soul from the outside, by way of exciting the body, so as to bypass the spirit of man. One thing Satan does not want to do is to remind man or woman that they have a spiriit.
Now, Lucifer/Satan IS a spirit, so Lucifer/Satan can speak to the spirit of man. But Lucifer/Satan prefers to talk to the soul via the body.
with love, Eden
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Eden
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posted
Zeena wrote to Michael Harrison quote:
God had it backwards, huh?
Totally touche! If God liked to mention those 3 things in that order, God had a very good reason. love, Eden
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Michael Harrison
Advanced Member
Member # 6801
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posted
quote:
What is wrong with God's children, they all prefer a lie? From whence cometh this evil? Self refuses to die.
Do you really want me to bring up all the scripture on this, as though you don't alreasy know them? Should I insult you by telling you what you should already know?
And this is not some who knows more scripture game. It is as serious as life. For that matter, one or two scriptures are all that are needed to understand the truth the way it is supposed to be understood. And a host of scriptures will not necessarily accomplish understanding for anyone. For one can know a lot of scriptures, and understand them all wrong, however well meaning they are.
If I am not of God, I will be judged. If you are not edified, it is not because I have not said what I am supposed to.
Posts: 3273 | From: Charlotte N.C. | Registered: Sep 2007
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Michael Harrison
Advanced Member
Member # 6801
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posted
If your heart is misguided you will not see the fruit in my words. I am however obligated to HIM, to speak them My ear is open to you, but my obligation is to Him. If you speak by Him, I will hear. If you do not speak by Him, I will address it, but if you will only hear it wrong, how will you be edified? If what I tell you is not true, it is upon me. For no one will escape the error of being wrong. If I am not wrong, the hearer will not escape.
Posts: 3273 | From: Charlotte N.C. | Registered: Sep 2007
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Michael Harrison
Advanced Member
Member # 6801
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posted
Paul said: "Be ye followers of me, even as I also am of Christ." What did he mean, "Be followers of me?" He had just 'discussed' being puffed up for one over another. Then he seems to point to 'himself' when he says to "Follow me." But what he was saying was "Do as I do, insomuch as he was saying believe what I believe." And the second half of the verse indicates even more closely what one should 'do', for he said, even as I also am of Christ. So he could have said "Be 'of' Christ."
That is not as simple as 'self-election', to be 'of' Christ.
You are looking for something to 'do' when you read my posts. That is why you are looking for the scripture. If you were looking for HIM, you would find the verses in scripture, for they are there. But will you obligate me to you?
Who cares about body soul and spirit? "The word of God is quick and powerful, sharper than a two edged sword, piercing to the dividing asunder of soul and spirit, and is a discerner of the thoughts and intent of the heart." This says that the word, properly understood pierces to the heart and divides into two, the soul and spirit. What is important about that? It is important enough to put a scripture in the Bible concerning it. I am sorry that you miss it. What else might you miss?
It also says that it is a discerner of the thoughts and intents - of the heart. That means that it reveals what is in the heart. For, what one believes in their heart makes the difference in what they see. Even better stated, what one believes in their heart, makes the difference in 'who' they see. I address one's 'considering' what is in the heart. If you are offended there may be a reason that accusing me will not circumvent. You might want to rethink it before you correct me. For I'm not sure I 'recognize' your scorn, son?
Posts: 3273 | From: Charlotte N.C. | Registered: Sep 2007
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Billy
Advanced Member
Member # 7193
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posted
quote:
Do you not profess yourselves to be wise? If the spirit is in the soul, in the body, does not the body contain the soul, and spirit? If you go from the inside to the outside, is it not reversed if you go from the outside to the inside? What profit is in this immaturity? Turn from it that your soul may benefit. You think you have a little knowledge and you overlook the truth!
This is not beneficial to the body, either. You accuse people of thinking themselves wise and mature. Then you attempt to pick them apart and call them immature. By doing so you imply that you think yourself wise and mature. Whether you do this on purpose or not is not important. Your heart is revealed through your actions. Thus, I have a few verses for you that I hope you will meditate on before continuing to post destructive words.
Proverbs 12:15
The way of a fool is right in his own eyes, But a wise man is he who listens to counsel.
Proverbs 26:5
Answer a fool as his folly {deserves,} That he not be wise in his own eyes.
Proverbs 26:12
Do you see a man wise in his own eyes? There is more hope for a fool than for him.
Proverbs 28:11
The rich man is wise in his own eyes, But the poor who has understanding sees through him.
Now, please show us that you can be of benefit to this board and the body of Christ, as a whole, by treating others with love and grace. Condemnation is for the Lord. Build relationships with others and prove yourself to be a genuine follower of our Lord, Jesus Christ, before you attempt to correct them. A kind word goes a long way. If God is love, and you have God in you, you will address others with love. I will not doubt your salvation, because I don't know you. However, I'm sure I speak for many on this board when I say, let us see the fruit of the Spirit in your words.
In Christ,
Billy.
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Test yourselves to be sure that you are in the faith.
- The Apostle Paul
Posts: 217 | From: overseas | Registered: Jun 2008
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Billy
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Member # 7193
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posted
quote:
What is wrong with God's children, they all prefer a lie? From whence cometh this evil? Self refuses to die.
This statement is not beneficial to the body. Nor are any of the many statements that I have read from you in which you pronounce condemnation on people for not believing many of the beliefs that you espouse without scriptural evidence. Who cares what the make up of the body, soul and spirit are? All that matters is whether we are in His Spirit.
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Test yourselves to be sure that you are in the faith.
- The Apostle Paul
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Zeena
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Member # 7223
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posted
quote:
Originally posted by Michael Harrison:
This is kindergarden, no? It depends on whether one is looking from the outside in, or the inside out. God looks from the inside out? No? Do you not profess yourselves to be wise? If the spirit is in the soul, in the body, does not the body contain the soul, and spirit? If you go from the inside to the outside, is it not reversed if you go from the outside to the inside? What profit is in this immaturity? Turn from it that your soul may benefit. You think you have a little knowledge and you overlook the truth!
God had it backwards, huh?
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Know ye not your own selves, how that Jesus Christ is in you, except ye be reprobates?
But I trust that ye shall know that we are not reprobates.
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WildB
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posted
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That is all.....
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Michael Harrison
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Member # 6801
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posted
What is wrong with God's children, they all prefer a lie? From whence cometh this evil? Self refuses to die.
(You are already crossed)
Posts: 3273 | From: Charlotte N.C. | Registered: Sep 2007
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Michael Harrison
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Member # 6801
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posted
quote:
When we Christians heard the Word of God we realized that we had made a mess by trying to operate our body from the soul level without the input from the spirit of man, and those of us who realized that, repented from trying to operate our body from the soul level (which we had learned from Adam and Eve).
This is explained above. The heart is key. If it is not right, then the rest is not in order.
quote:
And we stop our soul operation of our body and now the soul (we Christians) wait quietly and listen to our spirit of man, which alone has the instruments to hear from the Spirit of God.
The Spirit of God is in the spirit of man:
Rom 8:9 "But ye are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if so be that the Spirit of God dwell in you. Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his."
Posts: 3273 | From: Charlotte N.C. | Registered: Sep 2007
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Michael Harrison
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posted
This is kindergarden, no? It depends on whether one is looking from the outside in, or the inside out. God looks from the inside out? No? Do you not profess yourselves to be wise? If the spirit is in the soul, in the body, does not the body contain the soul, and spirit? If you go from the inside to the outside, is it not reversed if you go from the outside to the inside? What profit is in this immaturity? Turn from it that your soul may benefit. You think you have a little knowledge and you overlook the truth!
Posts: 3273 | From: Charlotte N.C. | Registered: Sep 2007
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Zeena
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posted
quote:
Eden wrote:
Not: body, soul, spirit, but spirit, soul, body.
1 Thessalonians 5:23
And the very God of peace sanctify you wholly; and I pray God your whole spirit and soul and body be preserved blameless unto the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ.
AMEN!
Romans 3:4
God forbid: yea, let God be true, but every man a liar; as it is written, That thou mightest be justified in thy sayings, and mightest overcome when thou art judged.
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Know ye not your own selves, how that Jesus Christ is in you, except ye be reprobates?
But I trust that ye shall know that we are not reprobates.
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Eden
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posted
Not: body, soul, spirit, but spirit, soul, body.
1 Thessalonians 5
23 And the very God of peace sanctify you wholly; and I pray God your whole spirit and soul and body be preserved blameless unto the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ.
Adam and Eve were souls, which means they lived at the soul level.
When Adam and Eve sinned in Eden, they basically decided to operate their bodies from the soul level and ignore their spirit.
But only their spirit of man has the instruments to hear from the Spirit of God. So Adam and Eve no longer heard from the Spirit of God since Adam and Even now operated their body from the soul level, without input from their spirit, which now was, idle, as "smoking flax ready to go out".
When we Christians heard the Word of God we realized that we had made a mess by trying to operate our body from the soul level without the input from the spirit of man, and those of us who realized that, repented from trying to operate our body from the soul level (which we had learned from Adam and Eve).
And we stop our soul operation of our body and now the soul (we Christians) wait quietly and listen to our spirit of man, which alone has the instruments to hear from the Spirit of God.
Now the soul (we, our personality, who we are) listens to "what the spirit says" and "let him/her hear who has an ear to what the Spirit says", and then our spirit of man conveys what the spirit heard to the soul, and then the soul executes the command/granddesign/words of the spirit in the body, and all is going well.
spirit, soul, body, that is the order of God that will makes anyone's life a blessing.
The message is this: repent from operating the body from the soul level by acknowledging that the spirit knows best. Once the soul acknowledges that, the soul will shut up and stop trying.
with love to all, Eden
"cross me"
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Michael Harrison
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posted
Imagine that you go to the local mart and you purchase a set of three containers for the kitchen. Imagine that they are neatly packaged so that they fit into each other. Therefore one, the smaller one, fits inside another, and the two fit into the larger one. So you have a container, and inside is another container, and inside that one is another.
Now, the size of these containers varies little. Each successive one which is smaller is just enough so to be able to fit into the next size up. So you get the picture of three separate containers, as one (at least when you take it home from the store).
What I want you to do is to take this principle and apply it to your outline. Imagine yourself lying on the floor. Picture someone drawing around your body, an outline of you. Then, when it is finished, you stand up. Now, let some one draw another outline inside the first. It should closely resemble the outer silhouette in size and shape. Now, just like the containers, draw the third one inside the first two, only smaller.
What is the purpose? Look at the smaller silhouette. Think of that as your spirit. Look at the middle silhouette and see that as your soul. Of course the third and larger silhouette is your body, and it contains both your soul, and your spirit.
Notice that all three are in the shape of you. Now, your spirit (the smaller one) is dirty and dead without Christ. And what happens is that we, in the absence of Christ, try to fill it with something. That is where the lusts of life aim for. They try to fill the void which is our spirit.
Ok, the next silhouette is our soul. To be fair, though the spirit is the small container, and fits into the soul, the two overlap. In fact, you will notice that the body is not hollow in the center, but it contains the soul and spirit, so that they exist inside of each other in overlapping fashion. But to keep it simple, let’s look at them as just hollow containers. Anyway, the soul is the middle container, and inside the soul is the spirit. And these two are inside the outer layer, the body.
Now we know that the body is dead because of sin. It will die and leave our soul and spirit. We will get a new body, but for now, it so happens that it will die. In the mean time, if we know Christ, something happens inside these three containers. God will fill it! Here’s how it is. But first, we have to understand something that is hard to describe. That is that our soul and our spirit are joined. There is a doorway, or gate to our spirit. It is where our spirit and soul intersect. And through this door of our heart, the spirit tries to be filled. We lust to be filled. That is why the heart is covetous. And the way into the spirit is through the heart.
The heart is key. The way our spirit is filled so that we are satisfied of God is that we believe in our heart that Jesus is our Lord. Jesus is ’the’ key. When we believe, something happens to our spirit. Jesus is able to fill our spirit with His Spirit, and that only after our heart believes. Remember that the heart is the door to our soul and spirit and Jesus is the key. Without Him, the spirit remains dead.
If we look at the drawing again now, we should see a heart drawn in. We must imagine that it is the intersection of our soul and our spirit. Imagine that before, the heart was dark, or black, and our spirit also. But when we have believed on Jesus, the heart is lighter. The spirit, our spirit, if it could be seen, would contain the Spirit of God, and the soul, which was dark by nature of the spirit being dark, now should be more transparent so that the light of God’s spirit, which fills our spirit, shines through. All of this is hid in our body however.
The point is that God’s Spirit fills our spirit and illuminates our soul as if it were a lampshade over a lamp. The bulb, or the light of it fills our spirit. And depending on the condition of our heart, if there is any dirt on the heart, it will appear as a spot in the lampshade, blocking the light in our spirit. Otherwise, this parallels the notion of a city set upon a hill is not hid; or the notion that no one lights a lamp and hides it under a bushel, Jesus being the lamp, and our soul the delight that colors the light.
The condition of the heart affects the illumination. If the heart is holy, then the soul will be transparent. If it is dark, then the light that is in the spirit will be dimmed, and will not shine through (For his Spirit is light, and would only be dimmed by our unbelieving heart). If the heart is holy, God’s love and His light will shine through the believer. This is why the word is given to us for instruction or reproof. It is to expose the condition of our heart so that we can deal with any darkness. Unfortunately, men love the darkness and have a hard time coming into the light. That means that they have a hard time having a change of heart. And a change of heart is needed before the light will shine through. Therefore the soul suffers under the 'old man' manifesting dark desires.
It's like this. Jesus illuminates the soul. He is like the light bulb. But if we regard sin in our heart, it is like someone sprayed black paint on the light bulb. It stops light from getting through, right? So it is the condition of the heart that determines the condition of the soul. Or it is the position of the heart that determines the condition of our soul. In other words, the soul is not corrupt if the heart is pure. That is because Jesus is the key. And if the key is in place, and God turns the key, we are unlocked. By being unlocked, the old man who we were has no dominion over us because we are new creatures in Christ.
So things like, bitterness, strife, self exaultation, superiority, spite, resentment, and a host more, are things that we are not subject to if we are under the Cross. That means, if we are dead, and risen with Him. For the soul does not manifest these if the heart is renewed.
Do you see what I am saying? We can confess Christ, and we can profess Christ, and still be subject to these things. But if the Cross has done its proper work, by His grace we are beyond that. We live beyond that with no requirement to obey any such temptation. When Christ is our heart, He is our life, there is no bitterness, there is no strife and God is "Working un us both to will and to do of His good pleasure." That means He is 'in' us working to will and do His good pleasure.
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