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Author
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Topic: Some questions about the Rapture
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Watchmen of Christ
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posted
wow ...have you even took time to read the verses?
I don't you have. anyone with common sense who can read the verses I posted can see exactly what God's word said. so what part is wrong? is it Matt 24:29-31 where Jesus says in HIS words He returns after satan and the gathering of HIS is after satan, at His coming which is when at the last trump #1?
or 1 cor 15:52 where it says Christ returns at the last trump #2?
maybe it's Revelation 13:18 which says the number of the beast is 666? or that the book says 7seals viols and trumps?
which verse isn't right? tell me please.
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Watchmen of Christ
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posted
is the vision Daniel had about the last days different from the one John had in revelations?
is there different end days or the same? there are 7 trumps, 7 viols and 7 seals. When the word says the last trump I believe it. what else should we believe or rather who else? confusion is a tool of satan brother why would you try to use that tool for? we know by the word
1 antiChrist comes before True Christ
2 Christ returns at the last trump
3 there are 7 trumps thus the last is 7
4 satans number is 666 he comes in full power at the 6th trump 6th seal 6th viol before Christ
5 six comes before seven
6 when Christ returns the whole earth heavens burn
and the physical elements that make up all matter is destroyed , thus in a twinkling of an eye we are all changed into spiritual bodies at the last trump
7 read revelations Christ comes after satan
8 the saved dead are all ready with HIM and He brings them back with HIM, how could the dead rise first out of the grave? they don't they rise at death and are with Christ so He can bring them back.
9 satan comes with all signs and wonders to fool people into thinking he is Christ
10 those who believe satans lie and worship him as real Christ will perish
11 people looking for a rapture will see satan coming and mistake him for Christ unless they know satan comes before Christ
show me in the word any difference
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Watchmen of Christ
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posted
If the word of God is lies I don't want your truth
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Watchmen of Christ
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carefully read these verses
1 Cor. 15:
51: Behold, I shew you a mystery; We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed,
52: In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed.
53: For this corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal must put on immortality.
ok , this is saying we all won't die, but we will all be changed or translated into our heavenly body, we know flesh and blood can not inherit the kingdom, it also confirms we will be changed at the end of the tribulation, notice it says the last trump. How many trumps are there in rev..7 if you know that then we also know Christ returns at the LAST trump 7. satan comes in full power at the 6th seal,viol and trump Before Christ.
1 Thess. 4:
15: For this we say unto you by the word of the Lord, that we which are alive and remain unto the coming of the Lord shall not prevent them which are asleep.
16: For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:
17: Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.
this confirms what I just wrote and the passage above , we shall not all die we that remain alive can stop prevent or preceed the saved dead because they are already there. the saved dead are not in the grave, the unsaved. we know to be absent from the body is to be present with the Lord ..if your saved. we know when this verse says trump it means the last trump based on the previous verse and other verses.when true Christ returns the heavens and earth will be on fire (matt 24 mark 13, luke 21) the elements will burn up...
2 Peter 3:10
But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night; in the which the heavens shall pass away with a great noise, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat, the earth also and the works that are therein shall be burned up.
# 2 Peter 3:12
Looking for and hasting unto the coming of the day of God, wherein the heavens being on fire shall be dissolved, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat?
2 Thessalonians 2:8
And then shall that Wicked be revealed, whom the Lord shall consume with the spirit of his mouth, and shall destroy with the brightness of his coming:
these verses plainly says when Christ returns in full glory the whole world will be destroyed. If there is a "secret rapture" or the saints will be taken and God who's doing it? it can't be true Jesus because these verses say HE will destroy the elements and all physical is gone, so how does this fit into rapture theory?
Matt24:29
Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken:
30And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.
31And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other
Christ Himself says HE comes after the tribulation
any other doctrine besides this is of satan and a lie.I believe the words of Christ do you?
Matt. 25:
10: And while they went to buy, the bridegroom came; and they that were ready went in with him to the marriage: and the door was shut.
11: Afterward came also the other virgins, saying, Lord, Lord, open to us.
12: But he answered and said, Verily I say unto you, I know you not.
13: Watch therefore, for ye know neither the day nor the hour wherein the Son of man cometh.
these include rapture believers who didn't heed the prior verses and instead of believing Christ that HE comes AFTER antiChrist, people will believe antiChrist is really Christ and they will be apart of the other tares and surprised to be taken up to be burned. please listen to me and don't go with these folks!!!!!!
REV 19:11
here's the real proof, after reading the first 18 chapters of revelations, all the broken seals and tribulation, the beast and antiChrist all the torment THEN at the LAST trump, AFTER satan AFTER tribulation HERE COMES OUR BEAUTIFUL LORD to find who was true and accepted the truth and who was untrue,in bed with satan,with child spiritually,
received the mark of belief of God the seals of God or the seals of satan. here it and study it
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Betty Louise
Advanced Member
Member # 7175
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posted
Watchman you are the spreader of lies. You are the one teaching false Gospel.
betty
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Luk 21:28 And when these things begin to come to pass, then look up, and lift up your heads; for your redemption draweth nigh.
Posts: 5051 | From: Houston, Texas | Registered: May 2008
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WildB
Moderator
Member # 2917
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posted
“Is it rightly dividing the Word of truth to teach that the last trump of I Corinthians 15:52 is the seventh (or last) trumpet of Revelation 13:15, and therefore, the rapture of I Corinthians 15:51 to 53 is the rapture of the “tribulation” saints and not the rapture of the Body of Christ? Because there is also a trump in Matthew 24:31 and I Thessalonians 4:16, is that proof positive that in these two chapters we have the record of the rapture of the same “tribulation” saints mentioned in Revelation and I Corinthians 15:51 to 53?
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That is all.....
Posts: 8775 | From: USA, MICHIGAN | Registered: Mar 2004
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Watchmen of Christ
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posted
and that's your choice if you want to believe another doctrine other than what Jesus taught us. I'm posting the word and my beliefs are based on the word of God. false churches who teach false doctrine don't readily except Christ as the Lord warned us. if someone has a problem with the verses I've posted then please I would like to hear them and welcome them. if someone just doesn't like the verses cause it doesn't fit into their idea of what's going to happen then that's just tough.
satan wants people to believe he is Christ, how can he do this if the few who know the truth tell his secret. again I've posted verses and would like to address the word of God and not ideas or beliefs. I put my trust in the word of God and the words of HIS son. is something wrong with that?
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Betty Louise
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Member # 7175
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posted
watchman,
Believe what you want. But please remember that this board is made up by mostly pre-trib believers. Have respect for that are find you a board that promote post rapture believes. Not to say you are not welcome but your views will are not wanted on the rapture by most of us. You are free to believe what you want. Have respect for our right to our bliefs.
betty
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Luk 21:28 And when these things begin to come to pass, then look up, and lift up your heads; for your redemption draweth nigh.
Posts: 5051 | From: Houston, Texas | Registered: May 2008
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Caretaker
Advanced Member
Member # 36
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posted
Some people wrongly believe that a pre-tribulation rapture can’t happen because Matthew 13:30 says that at the Second Coming the “tares” will be gathered first.
In the parable of the tares Jesus said, “Allow both (wheat and tares) to grow together until the harvest; and in the time of the harvest I will say to the reapers, "First gather up the tares and bind them in bundles to burn them up; but gather the wheat into my barn.” (Matt. 13:30). He then explained that the “tares” are “sons of the evil one” (Matt. 13:38).
This parable doesn’t mean the rapture and Second Coming are the same event. Although Jesus specifically forbade the removal of the wicked, He did not forbid the removal of the righteous. (Matt. 13:29)
The harvest is the Second Coming of Christ to earth. Jesus said unbelievers will be gathered FIRST at His Second Coming. However, the apostle Paul under the inspiration of the Holy Spirit said the dead in Christ will rise first. “For the Lord Himself will descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel and with the trumpet of God, and the dead in Christ will rise first. Then we who are alive and remain will be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air, and so we shall always be with the Lord” (1 Thess. 4:16-17).
If the Rapture and Second Coming are the same event, we have a contradiction in the Bible. However, the mystery is cleared up when we understand that the Rapture of the Church precedes the Second Coming.
The Rapture will occur first, when Christ returns in the clouds to remove His church from earth and take us to heaven. Jesus said, "If I go and prepare a place for you, I will come again and receive you to Myself, that where I am (heaven), there you may be also. (John 14:3). Jesus will not touch the earth at the Rapture but will stay in the heavens. At this time, the dead in Christ will be resurrected, which is immediately followed by living Christians being caught up into heaven.
At the Second Coming, Jesus will return to earth and His feet will land on the Mount of Olives (Zech 14:4). At this time, He will send out the angels to first gather the tares (unbelievers) and then the wheat (those saved after the Rapture). The wheat and tares are both gathered, not resurrected. They are still in their natural bodies and this is why the angels must gather them. If the wheat (sons of the kingdom) were resurrected at this time, they wouldn’t need the angels to gather them up. These people, who were saved after the rapture, will enter into Christ’s earthly millennial kingdom and will begin repopulating the earth.
http://www.raptureready.com/featured/crockett/takenfirst.html
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A Servant of Christ,
Drew
1 Tim. 3:
16: And without controversy great is the mystery of godliness: God was manifest in the flesh..
Posts: 3978 | From: Council Grove, KS USA | Registered: Jun 2002
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Watchmen of Christ
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posted
The post-tribulation Rapture position, while well-meaning, contradicts Scripture in a number of ways and must be laid aside by born-again Christians who desire to interpret Bible prophecy accurately. The post-tribulation Rapture position
(1) contradicts Christ’s revelation to John that the 144,000 Jewish “first fruits” of God’s Tribulation harvest will be called to salvation before the earth is harmed;
(2) fails to provide for persons to be left on earth in a flesh and blood bodies to repopulate Christ’s Millennial Kingdom;
(3) rejects Christ’s unequivocal promise to keep born-again believers from “the hour of testing, which is to come upon the whole earth” (the Tribulation period);
(4) fails to harmonize with Paul’s teaching that born-again Christians are not destined for wrath (the Tribulation period);
(5) rejects Christ’s straightforward teaching on the unannounced, unexpected, any-moment nature of the Rapture;
(6) fails to harmonize with Daniel’s Seventy Weeks prophecy; and
(7) fails to harmonize with the Parable of the Ten Virgins.
really? it contradicts scripture?
Matt: 29
Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken:
30And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.
31And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other
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Watchmen of Christ
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posted
1 Cor. 15:
51: Behold, I shew you a mystery; We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed,
52: In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed.
53: For this corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal must put on immortality.
ok , this is saying we all won't die, but we will all be changed or translated into our heavenly body, we know flesh and blood can not inherit the kingdom, it also confirms we will be changed at the end of the tribulation, notice it says the last trump. How many trumps are there in rev..7 if you know that then we also know Christ returns at the LAST trump 7. satan comes in full power at the 6th seal,viol and trump Before Christ.
1 Thess. 4:
15: For this we say unto you by the word of the Lord, that we which are alive and remain unto the coming of the Lord shall not prevent them which are asleep.
16: For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:
17: Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.
this confirms what I just wrote and the passage above , we shall not all die we that remain alive can stop prevent or preceed the saved dead because they are already there. the saved dead are not in the grave, the unsaved. we know to be absent from the body is to be present with the Lord ..if your saved. we know when this verse says trump it means the last trump based on the previous verse and other verses.when true Christ returns the heavens and earth will be on fire (matt 24 mark 13, luke 21) the elements will burn up...
2 Peter 3:10
But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night; in the which the heavens shall pass away with a great noise, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat, the earth also and the works that are therein shall be burned up.
# 2 Peter 3:12
Looking for and hasting unto the coming of the day of God, wherein the heavens being on fire shall be dissolved, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat?
2 Thessalonians 2:8
And then shall that Wicked be revealed, whom the Lord shall consume with the spirit of his mouth, and shall destroy with the brightness of his coming:
these verses plainly says when Christ returns in full glory the whole world will be destroyed. If there is a "secret rapture" or the saints will be taken and God who's doing it? it can't be true Jesus because these verses say HE will destroy the elements and all physical is gone, so how does this fit into rapture theory?
Matt24:29
Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken:
30And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.
31And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other
Christ Himself says HE comes after the tribulation
any other doctrine besides this is of satan and a lie.I believe the words of Christ do you?
Matt. 25:
10: And while they went to buy, the bridegroom came; and they that were ready went in with him to the marriage: and the door was shut.
11: Afterward came also the other virgins, saying, Lord, Lord, open to us.
12: But he answered and said, Verily I say unto you, I know you not.
13: Watch therefore, for ye know neither the day nor the hour wherein the Son of man cometh.
these include rapture believers who didn't heed the prior verses and instead of believing Christ that HE comes AFTER antiChrist, people will believe antiChrist is really Christ and they will be apart of the other tares and surprised to be taken up to be burned. please listen to me and don't go with these folks!!!!!!
REV 19:11
here's the real proof, after reading the first 18 chapters of revelations, all the broken seals and tribulation, the beast and antiChrist all the torment THEN at the LAST trump, AFTER satan AFTER tribulation HERE COMES OUR BEAUTIFUL LORD to find who was true and accepted the truth and who was untrue,in bed with satan,with child spiritually,
received the mark of belief of God the seals of God or the seals of satan. here it and study it
don't be fooled by antiChrist and false doctrine.
I'm quoting the verses, if you have other verses I encourage you to post them.
now I must address the man comments? really your making fun of GOD? HIS words? that's verses I'm quoting, the actual words of GOD speaking and your making fun of them? which side are you on?
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Caretaker
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Member # 36
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posted
The Bride is with the BrideGroom in Glory prior to His and the Saint's return.
John 14:
1: Let not your heart be troubled: ye believe in God, believe also in me.
2: In my Father's house are many mansions: if it were not so, I would have told you. I go to prepare a place for you.
3: And if I go and prepare a place for you, I will come again, and receive you unto myself; that where I am, there ye may be also.
1 Cor. 15:
51: Behold, I shew you a mystery; We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed,
52: In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed.
53: For this corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal must put on immortality.
1 Thess. 4:
15: For this we say unto you by the word of the Lord, that we which are alive and remain unto the coming of the Lord shall not prevent them which are asleep.
16: For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:
17: Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.
Matt. 25:
10: And while they went to buy, the bridegroom came; and they that were ready went in with him to the marriage: and the door was shut.
11: Afterward came also the other virgins, saying, Lord, Lord, open to us.
12: But he answered and said, Verily I say unto you, I know you not.
13: Watch therefore, for ye know neither the day nor the hour wherein the Son of man cometh.
Rev. 19:
1: And after these things I heard a great voice of much people in heaven, saying, Alleluia; Salvation, and glory, and honour, and power, unto the Lord our God:
2: For true and righteous are his judgments: for he hath judged the great ***** , which did corrupt the earth with her fornication, and hath avenged the blood of his servants at her hand.
3: And again they said, Alleluia. And her smoke rose up for ever and ever.
4: And the four and twenty elders and the four beasts fell down and worshipped God that sat on the throne, saying, Amen; Alleluia.
5: And a voice came out of the throne, saying, Praise our God, all ye his servants, and ye that fear him, both small and great.
6: And I heard as it were the voice of a great multitude, and as the voice of many waters, and as the voice of mighty thunderings, saying, Alleluia: for the Lord God omnipotent reigneth.
7: Let us be glad and rejoice, and give honour to him: for the marriage of the Lamb is come, and his wife hath made herself ready.
8: And to her was granted that she should be arrayed in fine linen, clean and white: for the fine linen is the righteousness of saints.
9: And he saith unto me, Write, Blessed are they which are called unto the marriage supper of the Lamb. And he saith unto me, These are the true sayings of God.
11: And I saw heaven opened, and behold a white horse; and he that sat upon him was called Faithful and True, and in righteousness he doth judge and make war.
12: His eyes were as a flame of fire, and on his head were many crowns; and he had a name written, that no man knew, but he himself.
13: And he was clothed with a vesture dipped in blood: and his name is called The Word of God.
14: And the armies which were in heaven followed him upon white horses, clothed in fine linen, white and clean.
It is Israel who shall be protected and supernaturally preserved. It was NOT the Church who brought forth the manchild, but Nation Israel:
Rev. 12:
1: And there appeared a great wonder in heaven; a woman clothed with the sun, and the moon under her feet, and upon her head a crown of twelve stars:
2: And she being with child cried, travailing in birth, and pained to be delivered.
3: And there appeared another wonder in heaven; and behold a great red dragon, having seven heads and ten horns, and seven crowns upon his heads.
4: And his tail drew the third part of the stars of heaven, and did cast them to the earth: and the dragon stood before the woman which was ready to be delivered, for to devour her child as soon as it was born.
5: And she brought forth a man child, who was to rule all nations with a rod of iron: and her child was caught up unto God, and to his throne.
6: And the woman fled into the wilderness, where she hath a place prepared of God, that they should feed her there a thousand two hundred and threescore days.
7: And there was war in heaven: Michael and his angels fought against the dragon; and the dragon fought and his angels,
8: And prevailed not; neither was their place found any more in heaven.
9: And the great dragon was cast out, that old serpent, called the Devil, and satan, which deceiveth the whole world: he was cast out into the earth, and his angels were cast out with him.
10: And I heard a loud voice saying in heaven, Now is come salvation, and strength, and the kingdom of our God, and the power of his Christ: for the accuser of our brethren is cast down, which accused them before our God day and night.
11: And they overcame him by the blood of the Lamb, and by the word of their testimony; and they loved not their lives unto the death.
12: Therefore rejoice, ye heavens, and ye that dwell in them. Woe to the inhabiters of the earth and of the sea! for the devil is come down unto you, having great wrath, because he knoweth that he hath but a short time.
13: And when the dragon saw that he was cast unto the earth, he persecuted the woman which brought forth the man child.
14: And to the woman were given two wings of a great eagle, that she might fly into the wilderness, into her place, where she is nourished for a time, and times, and half a time, from the face of the serpent.
15: And the serpent cast out of his mouth water as a flood after the woman, that he might cause her to be carried away of the flood.
16: And the earth helped the woman, and the earth opened her mouth, and swallowed up the flood which the dragon cast out of his mouth.
17: And the dragon was wroth with the woman, and went to make war with the remnant of her seed, which keep the commandments of God, and have the testimony of Jesus Christ.
quote:
http://revelationalive.net/materials/papers/post-trib-rapture/
The post-tribulation Rapture position, while well-meaning, contradicts Scripture in a number of ways and must be laid aside by born-again Christians who desire to interpret Bible prophecy accurately. The post-tribulation Rapture position
(1) contradicts Christ’s revelation to John that the 144,000 Jewish “first fruits” of God’s Tribulation harvest will be called to salvation before the earth is harmed;
(2) fails to provide for persons to be left on earth in a flesh and blood bodies to repopulate Christ’s Millennial Kingdom;
(3) rejects Christ’s unequivocal promise to keep born-again believers from “the hour of testing, which is to come upon the whole earth” (the Tribulation period);
(4) fails to harmonize with Paul’s teaching that born-again Christians are not destined for wrath (the Tribulation period);
(5) rejects Christ’s straightforward teaching on the unannounced, unexpected, any-moment nature of the Rapture;
(6) fails to harmonize with Daniel’s Seventy Weeks prophecy; and
(7) fails to harmonize with the Parable of the Ten Virgins.
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A Servant of Christ,
Drew
1 Tim. 3:
16: And without controversy great is the mystery of godliness: God was manifest in the flesh..
Posts: 3978 | From: Council Grove, KS USA | Registered: Jun 2002
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Carol Swenson
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Member # 6929
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posted
Since you are a man I guess we don't need to listen to anymore of you.
Posts: 6787 | From: Colorado | Registered: Dec 2007
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Watchmen of Christ
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posted
see brother, some use a little smart comment but where's the verses? no verses no base in the word
all some people do is believe what some preacher has taught them. cursed is the man that puts his trust in man wonder how quickly they will run to false Christ and worship him?
It is better to trust in the LORD than to put confidence in man. Psalm 118:8
Thus saith the LORD; Cursed be the man that trusteth in man, and maketh flesh his arm, and whose heart departeth from the LORD.Jeremiah 17:5
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Betty Louise
Advanced Member
Member # 7175
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posted
WildB,
Pass out some bread, there be a plenty of spam on this board. Kind hate to admit it but I kinda like spam sandwiches. Just not spam for Gospel.
betty
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Luk 21:28 And when these things begin to come to pass, then look up, and lift up your heads; for your redemption draweth nigh.
Posts: 5051 | From: Houston, Texas | Registered: May 2008
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Watchmen of Christ
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Brother I perceive you to be on the path to enlightenment by our Lord.
If you study Matt24, Luke21 and Mark 13 Christ says He comes after satan does which destroys the rapture theory.
I thes 4:18 is also taken out of context...go to I thess 4:13 to pick up the subject ..which is where do the saved dead go. Saved people are resurrected at death and do not go into the grave as the unsaved. I 4:16...here's a secret the dead in Christ rise first why because they are dead and already risen. then we which are alive at His coming meet them in the clouds (a cloud of people or a cloud of witnesses) in the air body or spirit body.
let's rely on the word some more
1 Corinthians 15:52
King James Version (KJV)
52In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed.
how many trumps are there? 7
how many white horse riders in revelations?2
Rev 6 and rev 19
why are we changed.. the brightness of HIS coming
in full glory.
Here's confirmation by Paul of Christ's coming after satan comes disguised as Christ and probably one of the most important in showing false Christ comes before True Christ
2 Thessalonians 2
1Now we beseech you, brethren, by the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, and by our gathering together unto him,
(see the story of the tares and wheat,the tares are taken or gathered up first then the wheat is gathered up the children of satan are the tares and the children of God is the wheat)
2That ye be not soon shaken in mind, or be troubled, neither by spirit, nor by word, nor by letter as from us, as that the day of Christ is at hand.
3Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition;
(This verse clearly says the day Christ returns is after the antiChrist fools many into thinking He is Christ thus taking the mark by belief and falling away. where's the once saved always saved in that?)
4Who opposeth and exalteth himself above all that is called God, or that is worshipped; so that he as God sitteth in the temple of God, shewing himself that he is God.
(remember matt 24 luke 21 and mark 13?)
5Remember ye not, that, when I was yet with you, I told you these things?
6And now ye know what withholdeth that he might be revealed in his time.
7For the mystery of iniquity doth already work: only he who now letteth will let, until he be taken out of the way.
(some will try to say this is the Holy Spirit, NO that would mean God isn't omnipresent, think about how silly it is to say God the Holy Spirit isn't everywhere. impossible, He who now lets is michael the arch angel rev 12:7-9 )
8And then shall that Wicked be revealed, whom the Lord shall consume with the spirit of his mouth, and shall destroy with the brightness of his coming:
(See II Peter 3:10 the elements burn up on HIS return , Matt 24 luke 21, mark 13 heaven and earth on fire why? cause Jesus will return in the full glory of GOD, thus in the twinkling of an eye we will all be changed into a spirit body or breath of life body an AIR body as a cloud of witnesses and all physical elements are gone! the dead rise first why? cause they're already dead and resurrected to Christ)
9Even him, whose coming is after the working of Satan with all power and signs and lying wonders,
(true Christ comes after anti Christ)
10And with all decievableness of unrighteousness in them that perish; because they received not the love of the truth, that they might be saved.
(those that reject the oil of truth have an empty lamp)
11And for this cause God shall send them strong delusion, that they should believe a lie:
(the antiChrist disguised as Christ)
12That they all might be damned who believed not the truth, but had pleasure in unrighteousness.
(the belief can change daily, people preach once saved always but that's a lie of satan and here's one of many many examples of when we sin we die spiritually , as eve was told "you won't die" if you sin.)
I hope this gives you something to study for yourself and see for yourself
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thefixer
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How sad.
Posts: 71 | From: Yuma, Arizona | Registered: Aug 2011
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Betty Louise
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I believe completely in a pre-trib rapture. This said, I will not debate the subject. At this time I am a caregiver to two family members and I have enough drama everyday to live with, without arguing with anyone on the computer. I say live every day like the rapture is happening tomorrow. Because none of us have a guarantee that we will still be alive tomorrow.
God bless you.
betty
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Luk 21:28 And when these things begin to come to pass, then look up, and lift up your heads; for your redemption draweth nigh.
Posts: 5051 | From: Houston, Texas | Registered: May 2008
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thefixer
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I would love to not have to experience the time of tribulation and be called Home before it occurs. However I can't get past the scripture that clearly shows that the "Church" will have to go through at least part of it. In Daniel 8:24 it implies that Satan "will destroy the mighty men and the HOLY PEOPLE'. In Revelation 20:4-10 verse seems to me to indicate that the believers will experience the reign of the Beast. Lastly, (for now) doesn't scripture say somewhere that there will be Testifiers for Jesus at the reconstructed Temple in Jerusalem?
Like I said, I would like to not have to go through what is coming. But I SERVE JESUS and I live by His will for my life. If His plan is for me to endure the tribulation then I will, knowing that, like Stephen, He will comfort my soul. Jesus asks that we pick up our cross and follow him. Does that imply an easy life? He says to expect to be hated, persecuted, and possibly killed because you follow Him. Jesus never said that a person's life in His service on this planet would be easy.
Posts: 71 | From: Yuma, Arizona | Registered: Aug 2011
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