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Topic: Harry Potter
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barrykind
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Member # 35
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posted
ENOUGH SAID!
![[thumbsup2]](graemlins/thumbsup2.gif)
![[hug]](graemlins/hug.gif)
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The HEART of the issue is truly the issue of the HEART!
John 3:3;Mark 8:34-38;James 1:27
Posts: 3529 | From: Orange, Texas | Registered: Jun 2002
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barrykind
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Member # 35
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posted
Rom 1:32 Who knowing the judgment of God, that they which commit such things are worthy of death, not only do the same, but have pleasure in them that do them.
wow unto those!
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The HEART of the issue is truly the issue of the HEART!
John 3:3;Mark 8:34-38;James 1:27
Posts: 3529 | From: Orange, Texas | Registered: Jun 2002
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barrykind
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posted
Very veryGood Brother Dale and Brother Drew...
Good wisdom, and there is a "safety" in a multitude of councelors!
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The HEART of the issue is truly the issue of the HEART!
John 3:3;Mark 8:34-38;James 1:27
Posts: 3529 | From: Orange, Texas | Registered: Jun 2002
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Caretaker
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posted
1 Peter 4:17
17 For the time is come that judgment must begin at the house of God: and if it first begin at us, what shall the end be of them that obey not the gospel of God?
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A Servant of Christ,
Drew
1 Tim. 3:
16: And without controversy great is the mystery of godliness: God was manifest in the flesh..
Posts: 3978 | From: Council Grove, KS USA | Registered: Jun 2002
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Caretaker
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posted
An excellent message from Mikey, which he posted on WOP today. I thought I would share.
Mikey's Message:
quote:
Matthew 26:41, “Watch and pray, lest you enter into temptation. The spirit indeed is willing, but the flesh is weak”
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No one on this earth is temptation proof. Even mature believers in Christ have weaknesses in their spiritual armor that make them vulnerable to satan’s attack. Temptation is an urge to do something we know is wrong and certainly troubles each one of us, saved or unsaved. It may well be some sin, or something we tend to excuse like impatience, pride, programs we shouldn’t watch or places we shouldn’t be in. Maybe it’s gossip, or a short temper. I’m quite sure you will be able to add your own temptation to the above list. I would venture to say, that nearly every day we must choose between doing what pleases the Lord and what appeals to our old nature and our own selfish desires.
We have all seen while driving, load limit signs on highways, and especially on bridges. If you have taken an elevator to get to the floor where your office is or maybe in a department store, the elevator has a load limit, just as the highways and bridges. Those individuals (engineers) who designed these structures knew that too much strain or weight, could and would, cause severe damage or even complete collapse. You could also make the argument that the same limits apply to us as individuals! As human beings, we also have limits of our own, but those limits vary from person to person. As believers in Christ, our Lord knows our limitations and will never allow any difficulties to enter our lives that exceed our strength and ability to endure. This is especially true when we are enticed by a temptation to sin. 1 Corinthians 10:13 puts it this way, “God is faithful, who will not allow you to be tempted beyond what you are able.”
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Tim my next door neighbor told me about a dog he had when he was a boy. His father would occasionally test the dog’s obedience. He would place a tempting piece of meat on the floor and give the command, No! The dog, which must have had a strong urge to go for the meat, was placed in a most difficult situation, to obey or disobey, his master’s command. Tim said, “The dog never looked at the meat.” He seemed to feel that if he did, the temptation to disobey would be too great. So, he looked steadily at my father’s face. Tim then made this spiritual application: There is a lesson for us all. Always look up to the Master’s face. Yes, that is good advice. God, of course, will not tempt us to do wrong (James 1:13). We do encounter many temptations, though, and if we keep our eyes fixed on the Lord Jesus we will be able to overcome them. When we are confronted by enticements that could easily overwhelm, us, we need to look to Christ and follow His direction. Seeing Him and hearing Him as He is revealed in the Scriptures will give you the discernment to know what is right, and the desire and strength to obey Him.
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Closing thoughts:
satan uses many methods to hinder the work of the Lord’s servants and one of those methods is to tempt us to do something we know we shouldn’t. If you are battling temptations in your life today you can resist them and have victory by:
(1) Using God’s Word as Jesus did in the wilderness (Matthew 4:1-11);
(2) Putting on the whole armor of God (Ephesians 6:11-17);
(3) Praying for the Holy Spirit’s help and guidance (John 14:26);
(4) Making a daily commitment to walk with God, and
(5) Above all, keeping your eyes fixed on Jesus Christ.
Keeping your eyes on the Master!!!!
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A Servant of Christ,
Drew
1 Tim. 3:
16: And without controversy great is the mystery of godliness: God was manifest in the flesh..
Posts: 3978 | From: Council Grove, KS USA | Registered: Jun 2002
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becauseHElives
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posted
Drew, the facts are I once tried to justify sin in my life (entertaining my lust with pornography) by using scripture out of context….
I Corinthians 6:12 All things are lawful unto me, but all things are not expedient: all things are lawful for me, but I will not be brought under the power of any.
"All things are lawful" (and other Christian slogans)
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The apostle Peter warned against those who would wrest/twist/distort the writings of Paul (II Peter 3:16). I have often made reference to this fact, and I believe that the slogan "all things are lawful" would fall under this category. Many use this passage of scripture as a proof-text of sorts to justify immoral living under the banner of Christian liberty. I use and prefer the Authorized version of the bible (KJV) however it becomes more evident in other translations that what Paul is dealing with here is a slogan of the Corinthian church. The NIV puts this passage in quotation marks, thus indicating to the reader that Paul is dealing with a common saying/slogan of this church. Even without help from the translators, we can use the context clues of the passage to clearly see that Paul was not advocating a Christian doctrine which makes allowances for immorality. He is clearly teaching within the context of this chapter that the sexually immoral will not inherit the kingdom of God. We must make the important distinction (that the scriptures do as well) between major and peripheral issues. Eating fast food may be lawful for me, but it is definitely not expedient. Drinking 2 cups of coffee each morning may be lawful for me, but definitely not expedient. What becomes obvious in this text though, is that Paul is not trying to expound on the various aspects of Christian liberty (although he does in places like Romans chapter 14) but rather he is showing a fallacy in their line of thinking. Let me further explain: Paul goes on to quote what obviously was another one of their sayings or slogans:
I Corinthians 6:13 Meats for the belly, and the belly for meats: but God shall destroy both it and them. Now the body is not for fornication, but for the Lord; and the Lord for the body
Again, the topic at hand is not dietary laws or meats offered unto idols here (Paul will deal with that in later chapters), but the immediate context is sexual immorality. Perhaps the slogan regarding foods (i.e. "meats for the belly, and the belly for meats") was quoted to show the Corinthians attitude towards sexual purity. Many commentators have made special mention of the fact that immorality was a big part of life in Corinth, and that there were many rituals involving pagan gods/idols and temple prostitutes. We can discern from this letter to the Corinthians that they were indeed fascinated with knowledge. We know from church history that the Gnostic influence was very strong in the first century. Without going into all the tenets of Gnosticism, it can briefly be summarized by a belief that knowledge is superior to obedience. It is possible that gnostic thought had influenced the Corinthians to the place where they had placed moral restraints aside. Paul warned them that "knowledge puffeth up, but charity edifieth." (8:1) He took great care in preaching to them and his concern that was to know nothing among them but "Jesus Christ and him crucified." Although this truly was a dynamic Charismatic (if I can use that term without conjuring up all types of negative images) fellowship, they had a fundamental flaw. They were more concerned with spiritual knowledge than the love of God and love for each other (refer to chapter 13). Perhaps this slogan ("meats for the belly") is quoted here to show that they (the Corinthians) regarded matters of sexual purity to be in the same category of eating habits. Jesus made it clear that his disciples were not defiled by eating with unwashed hands but rather it is what is within a man's heart that defiles him. It is possible that the Corinthians thought that sexual acts were no different than eating a steak. Paul is very quick to warn them that this is not the case. Let's look at his remarks after their slogans:
I Corinthians 6:14 And God hath both raised up the Lord, and will also raise up us by his own power. 6:15 Know ye not that your bodies are the members of Christ? shall I then take the members of Christ, and make them the members of an harlot? God forbid. 6:16 What? know ye not that he which is joined to an harlot is one body? for two, saith he, shall be one flesh. 6:17 But he that is joined unto the Lord is one spirit. 6:18 Flee fornication. Every sin that a man doeth is without the body; but he that committeth fornication sinneth against his own body. 6:19 What? know ye not that your body is the temple of the Holy Ghost which is in you, which ye have of God, and ye are not your own? 6:20 For ye are bought with a price: therefore glorify God in your body, and in your spirit, which are God's.
So clearly anyone with even limited intelligence can see that Paul was not saying that everything was permissible within the sphere of grace. He pointed out the sin of sexual immorality was not "lawful" for a Christian living under grace. He even went further to suggest that there is a particular stain left behind by this type of sin (notice verse 18). It is not exactly certain as to what the verbiage means in that verse, but suffice it to say that sexual sin carries with it a notably undesirable consequence-that much is clear. With all of the sexually transmitted diseases out there today, it certainly bears witness to the fact that those who live a lifestyle of promiscuity (regardless of what form) are destroying their own bodies- once again proving the scriptures to be absolute truth. Contrary to what many teachers say today- we as Christians do have a responsibility (and accountability) to glorify God not only in our spirits....but our bodies!
Now we will look at the other usage of the term "all things are lawful" (or as the NIV translates "Everything is permissible") in I Corinthians chapter 10. In chapter six we found that the context was sexual immorality and it's consequences. In chapter 10 we see that Paul was dealing with the issue of idolatry (and food offered to idols). He opens chapter 10 with a powerful reminder of those who wandered in the wilderness for 40 years, never making it to the promised land. He cites the reasons they never made it in: notably the sins of fornication and idolatry (along with murmuring, tempting Christ, lust, et.al). He then appeals to them on the basis of the failures of the wilderness wanderers (verse 14). Paul does not deny the fact that "every creature of God is good and nothing to be refused, if it be received with thanksgiving" (I Timothy 4:4). He also makes it clear that it his not his conscience that is at stake, but that of those who observe him (I Cor 10:29). Having said that however, he does designate instances in which it is not permissible for a Christian to eat meats sacrificed unto idols. Interestingly enough here Paul tells his readers to "flee from idolatry" (10:14) and earlier (as we previously discussed) in chapter 6 he warned them to "flee fornication" (I Cor 6:18). The idea here is rather than seeing how close to temptation we can get, we ought to be running away from this stuff as quickly as possible. When an individual makes the proclamation that meat has been offered unto an idol- the believer is not to partake for the sake of him who offered and those "weak" brethren who may be in attendance. Paul emphatically declares through the Holy Spirit that "Ye cannot drink the cup of the Lord, and the cup of devils: ye cannot be partakers of the Lord's Table, and of the table of devils" (I Cor 10:21).
The irony of this discussion is that many times those who are perceived as being "champions of liberty" really become enslaved to their liberty. We are warned not to use liberty as an "occasion to the flesh". While it's easy to look at the Corinthians and point our fingers in consternation- we would do well to look in the mirror. We have our own sayings in this modern era which have the appearance of piety, but in reality are a cloak for carnality and lasciviousness. For example, how many times have you heard the slogan "well, I'm just an old sinner saved by grace"? (Probably more times than you can remember). Or how about "well, nobody's perfect, we've all fallen short of the glory of God." Or how about those who misquote Paul and say "well Paul was the chief of sinners" or the favorite and oft-used "the bible says don't judge”? I could go on and on, but I think you get the picture. Going back to the reference of "all things are lawful, but all things are not expedient"- in focusing all of our effort on the first part of that verse- we really miss the spirit of what Paul was trying to tell us. He was not trying to lay out a treatise for demanding and appropriating our Christian liberty but rather showing an attitude that should prevail among Christians which seeks to glorify God in everything that is eaten, said, or done. I think we spend far too much of our time asking the question "is it ok for me to do this?" instead of asking the more important question "will my actions glorify God?"
Rom 1:32 Who knowing the judgment of God, that they which commit such things are worthy of death, not only do the same, but have pleasure in them that do them.
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Strive to enter in at the strait gate:for many, I say unto you will seek to enter in, and shall not be able. ( Luke 13:24 )
Posts: 4578 | From: Southeast Texas | Registered: Jun 2002
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MentorsRiddle
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posted
quote:
Just because a work of literature or a movie is tremendously popular with the worldly, does not mean that we should try to justify it or to spin-it from a Christian viewpoint.
There is nothing of Christ in Harry Potter, and while we can speak of certain attributes ie Good vs. Evil, we as Believers should neither justify it or promote it.
Caretaker, I agree with you on what you are saying to a certain extent.
My main thought pattern is that sometimes we over-analyze things too much, which is in our nature.
When I read stories and books that aren’t Christian oriented, I take them at face value for what they are: a story.
When I was a child, I grew up on Disney movies, Pee-Wee Herman, Care-Bears, Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles, etc.
There were even some movies I watched called, The Worst Witch, which I believe JK Rowling stole the idea from Harry Potter from, lol.
Basically, they didn’t define me on who I was. My parents were quick to let me know it was all make-believe and just for fun.
I kept those values and thought patterns throughout my life, and will someday pass them to my children.
The main premise of these stories is that ultimately, Good triumphs over evil, which is a premise echoed throughout many stories.
We are each entitled to our own opinion and viewpoints – and I do my best to respect others viewpoints, although sometimes I fail at that.
I truly understand the mentality and thought types that others have when discussing the evils of Harry Potter, Twilight, Eragon, etc.
I really do.
I just don’t agree with them.
God is in my heart, mind, body and spirit. He has never allowed me to stray too far from his Grace and Love, which is found through the salvation offered by Jesus Christ.
I don’t think God put us here to take life so seriously. Sometimes we can be entertained and enjoy little things, so long as we don’t let it destroy our relationship with God Almighty.
But, then again, I also feel that if we are in true relationship with God that nothing as simple as a Harry Potter book could ever come close to even putting a scratch on our relationship with God.
Not if we recognize the stories as a simple fictional story. It’s when we start looking for life meanings in these books that we start having problems.
Life meanings and lessons should only be found in one book: The Holy Bible.
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With you I rise,
In you I sleep,
kneeling down I kiss your feet,
Grace abounds upon me now,
I once was lost
but now I'm found.
The gift of God dwells within,
To this love I now give in.
Posts: 1337 | From: Arkansas | Registered: Sep 2003
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Caretaker
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posted
God bless each of you so very much.
I am reminded of Sgt. Joe Friday from the 1960's Dragnet television show. He would be interviewing a witness and in his deadpan voice would say, "Just the facts Maam".
Lets try to address the facts and stay away from personal attacks, and sweeping generalities/condemnations.
One of the deep and abiding concerns is how often so many modern churches practice accomodation, where they compromise with popular culture. I offer into evidence T-shirts/tamk tops/ragged jeans, rock and roll in the sanctuary, cocktail parties by the membership, etc.
The Roman Catholic Church has often done this throughout history, in much of their traditions.
We should be in the world BUT not OF the world.
Just because a work of literature or a movie is tremendously popular with the worldly, does not mean that we should try to justify it or to spin-it from a Christian viewpoint.
There is nothing of Christ in Harry Potter, and while we can speak of certain attributes ie Good vs. Evil, we as Believers should neither justify it or promote it.
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A Servant of Christ,
Drew
1 Tim. 3:
16: And without controversy great is the mystery of godliness: God was manifest in the flesh..
Posts: 3978 | From: Council Grove, KS USA | Registered: Jun 2002
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becauseHElives
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Member # 87
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posted
2Th 2:12 That they all might be damned who believed not the truth, but had pleasure in unrighteousness.
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Strive to enter in at the strait gate:for many, I say unto you will seek to enter in, and shall not be able. ( Luke 13:24 )
Posts: 4578 | From: Southeast Texas | Registered: Jun 2002
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MentorsRiddle
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posted
quote:
Then..when a R rated or x rated movie comes out agreeing with and showing adultry.. can i mark it down as just "make believe"??
I covered this in a previous post when I said:
quote:
Now, that does not mean we should watch pornographic films and say, “oh well that’s just entertainment"? NO.
Nor does that mean we can go rob a store and call it a time killer…
We must use discernment and wisdom, which comes through the Holy Spirit.
Part of wisdom and discernment is common since. Obviously watching porn cannot be considered “make believe.”
There is a huge difference between a children’s book and on screen degenerate sexual acts.
I feel the need to relate my emotion right now….
Often times when we speak in forum, we can’t see each other’s demeanor and body language. I am not trying to be argumentative or rude.
I am not mad, nor upset.
I am simply trying to debate a topic that is obviously of concern.
In my head, I am talking calmly, lol.
I am only telling you this, because I don’t want to come across as being rude or harsh when I am, in fact, calm.
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With you I rise,
In you I sleep,
kneeling down I kiss your feet,
Grace abounds upon me now,
I once was lost
but now I'm found.
The gift of God dwells within,
To this love I now give in.
Posts: 1337 | From: Arkansas | Registered: Sep 2003
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barrykind
Advanced Member
Member # 35
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posted
wildbill states:
quote:
LOL Barry Dam get over yourself. LOL>
and by the LordGod of Israel ,
ThanX U
Mr Barry ? do u per-mote yourself?
Sir your articulation of the english language is apalling.
DId you answer my question:?
Are you born again, or you saved, have you recieved the Holy Spirit?
Your nasty demeaner is atrocious sir!
i will no longer answer your attacks...
When i post its truth from my heart, what i stated to MR is what i felt and thought. i truly admire one who tells the truth, and when convicted repents, to me thats a sign of a humbled heart, where the Master stated: "I will in no wise cast out"..
Sir you could use an example of being humble, and it could come upon you quickly sir!
To answer your question: "Do i promote myself...i dont think so and if i do may the Master have mercy on me, for i am nothing...but dust...
As i stated......im done with answering your discord.
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The HEART of the issue is truly the issue of the HEART!
John 3:3;Mark 8:34-38;James 1:27
Posts: 3529 | From: Orange, Texas | Registered: Jun 2002
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barrykind
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Member # 35
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posted
PS Mentors Riddle, but i felt you may be or at one time involved in the occult....
Thankyou for your honesty and when YHWH forgives someone..i also do ![[Smile]](smile.gif)
bondservant
barry
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The HEART of the issue is truly the issue of the HEART!
John 3:3;Mark 8:34-38;James 1:27
Posts: 3529 | From: Orange, Texas | Registered: Jun 2002
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barrykind
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Member # 35
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posted
Thankyou my Heavenly Father My Precious Brother Drew and i agee 100% on something.....
If i was to use the logic of MR and my dear sister Carol...
Its fantasy, not real etc...
Then..when a R rated or x rated movie comes out agreeing with and showing adultry.. can i mark it down as just "make believe"??
Its not real there really not adulterers, there really not fornicators, its all just acting..
NO NO NO
we should be careful what we see, hear, and esp allow our chidren to see and hear...
I DONT HAVE KIDS (goat nature) i have children..
im very careful what they see and hear..HENCE is why we homeschool!
My beloved Brother Dale once said years ago before i had any children..."you can judge the spirituality of the parents by how the children behave!"
God help us thats true!
So i could certainly err of the side of caution here about things of this nature.
And i totally agree with my brother Drew, that its the precursor and entry gate to the occult.....
You may not think so and many thinks its innocent fun, but "buyer" beware....its not a game with God (YHWH) and it should not be with us!
love barry
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The HEART of the issue is truly the issue of the HEART!
John 3:3;Mark 8:34-38;James 1:27
Posts: 3529 | From: Orange, Texas | Registered: Jun 2002
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becauseHElives
Advanced Member
Member # 87
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posted
Philippians 4:8
8Finally, brethren, whatsoever things are true, whatsoever things are honest, whatsoever things are just, whatsoever things are pure, whatsoever things are lovely, whatsoever things are of good report; if there be any virtue, and if there be any praise, think on these things.
Proverbs 23
1When thou sittest to eat with a ruler, consider diligently what is before thee:
2And put a knife to thy throat, if thou be a man given to appetite.
3Be not desirous of his dainties: for they are deceitful meat.
4Labour not to be rich: cease from thine own wisdom.
5Wilt thou set thine eyes upon that which is not? for riches certainly make themselves wings; they fly away as an eagle toward heaven.
6Eat thou not the bread of him that hath an evil eye, neither desire thou his dainty meats:
7For as he thinketh in his heart, so is he: Eat and drink, saith he to thee; but his heart is not with thee.
8The morsel which thou hast eaten shalt thou vomit up, and lose thy sweet words.
9Speak not in the ears of a fool: for he will despise the wisdom of thy words.
10Remove not the old landmark; and enter not into the fields of the fatherless:
11For their redeemer is mighty; he shall plead their cause with thee.
12Apply thine heart unto instruction, and thine ears to the words of knowledge.
13Withhold not correction from the child: for if thou beatest him with the rod, he shall not die.
14Thou shalt beat him with the rod, and shalt deliver his soul from hell.
15My son, if thine heart be wise, my heart shall rejoice, even mine.
16Yea, my reins shall rejoice, when thy lips speak right things.
17Let not thine heart envy sinners: but be thou in the fear of the LORD all the day long.
18For surely there is an end; and thine expectation shall not be cut off.
19Hear thou, my son, and be wise, and guide thine heart in the way.
20Be not among winebibbers; among riotous eaters of flesh:
21For the drunkard and the glutton shall come to poverty: and drowsiness shall clothe a man with rags.
22Hearken unto thy father that begat thee, and despise not thy mother when she is old.
23Buy the truth, and sell it not; also wisdom, and instruction, and understanding.
24The father of the righteous shall greatly rejoice: and he that begetteth a wise child shall have joy of him.
25Thy father and thy mother shall be glad, and she that bare thee shall rejoice.
26My son, give me thine heart, and let thine eyes observe my ways.
27For a ***** is a deep ditch; and a strange woman is a narrow pit.
28She also lieth in wait as for a prey, and increaseth the transgressors among men.
29Who hath woe? who hath sorrow? who hath contentions? who hath babbling? who hath wounds without cause? who hath redness of eyes?
30They that tarry long at the wine; they that go to seek mixed wine.
31Look not thou upon the wine when it is red, when it giveth his colour in the cup, when it moveth itself aright.
32At the last it biteth like a serpent, and stingeth like an adder.
33Thine eyes shall behold strange women, and thine heart shall utter perverse things.
34Yea, thou shalt be as he that lieth down in the midst of the sea, or as he that lieth upon the top of a mast.
35They have stricken me, shalt thou say, and I was not sick; they have beaten me, and I felt it not: when shall I awake? I will seek it yet again.
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Strive to enter in at the strait gate:for many, I say unto you will seek to enter in, and shall not be able. ( Luke 13:24 )
Posts: 4578 | From: Southeast Texas | Registered: Jun 2002
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MentorsRiddle
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posted
Carol,
It is true that the enemy will use every available option to corrupt us.
Because, this world is so full of evil and degenerate behavior we are bombarded each and every day by the temptations of the flesh.
But that is why the bible says, be in the world and not of it.
But how can we, being born into sin, be of this world but not of it?
The answer is simply beautiful: by the power of the Holy Spirit. When we commit our life to Christ, the Holy Spirit enters this fleshly house and cleans it, making it whole.
We are still tempted, that is true, but the Spirit allows us discernment to know when things will be bad for us.
God knows us down to faults – even the numbers of hairs on our head.
Each person’s faults and short comings are different. For that reason, you may be tempted in one area, whereas I am tempted in another.
But, because of the blessings of the Holy Spirit, we each receive discernment and can recognize when to leave things alone.
That being said, the Harry Potter books may be a temptation to some to do irrational things, while to me it does nothing but entertain me.
That’s why it’s important to have a strong relationship with God: so you don’t lose yourself in the world, but are constantly illuminated by the Light of God.
Staying focused on Him will always ensure you are lead down the correct path in life.
It's when we lose sight of Him that we get lost in the wilderness.
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With you I rise,
In you I sleep,
kneeling down I kiss your feet,
Grace abounds upon me now,
I once was lost
but now I'm found.
The gift of God dwells within,
To this love I now give in.
Posts: 1337 | From: Arkansas | Registered: Sep 2003
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Carol Swenson
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Member # 6929
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posted
I am reminded of a Christian documentary I saw where Christian books are not allowed in a high school library, but books on wicca and satanism are.
To me, Harry Potter is no different than any other fantasy. But I can understand how something as popular as those books are could in fact get children thinking in the wrong direction, and I know that Satan will use every opportunity to lead people away from the Savior.
Posts: 6787 | From: Colorado | Registered: Dec 2007
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MentorsRiddle
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posted
quote:
You appear to be an adversary to those who would bring this awareness to the parents so that they could in fact more closely monitor protect their children.
No, no & no. This is not the case. I clearly stated earlier that parents needs to be more involved:
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we must blame the parents who brought them up carelessly and with little regard to what they were filling their minds with.
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There is a reason the daily horoscope/astrology is placed next to the daily cartoons.
I think this is done because most people view horoscopes and astrology about the same as they do cartoons – simple entertainment and shouldn’t be taken serious. It’s just for entertainment. I am a rational person and certainly wouldn’t shape my day on what a horoscope or astrology report says. Nor would I look for signs based upon them.
Again, like I said, people that do (I feel) are already predisposed to teetering on sanity.
They allow the fanciful ideas of fiction to influence their minds and lives. They need help.
quote:
Has it not also been pointed out that some of those children influenced by Harry Potter, have been seeking-out books and materials on real witchcraft/wicca/the occult?
Again, this should be monitored by the parents. It is the parents responsibility to allow or not allow their children to do certain things.
quote:
You downplay the influence of the Harry Potter series, and you chide/condemn those who seek to protect the vulnerable from this gateway, encouraged by the child's peers and teachers.
I am not trying to downplay any influence a book series has over anyone.
Nor would I ever chide or condemn a person who desire to learn truth and educate their selves.
But people, by nature, tend to be one sided. They will be influenced by their preachers and fellow brethren to think a children’s book series is satanic. And most of these influences are misguided their selves and only regurgitating what they have been told by others.
This leads to a circle of untruth, which defeats the original purpose of a parent desiring to learn truth.
I applaud you for actually having read the series and not just going off what others have said. For that reason you can more aptly discuss the points.
But, you should know after reading them that they aren’t what people make them out to be. They are a simple fiction. Nothing more. Nothing less.
I applaud people for sticking by their kids side – if they don’t want their children to read these books because they think it would influence them: awesome.
But I don’t want them depriving their children of the joy of reading based off here say and ignorance.
--------------------
With you I rise,
In you I sleep,
kneeling down I kiss your feet,
Grace abounds upon me now,
I once was lost
but now I'm found.
The gift of God dwells within,
To this love I now give in.
Posts: 1337 | From: Arkansas | Registered: Sep 2003
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Caretaker
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quote:
Originally posted by MentorsRiddle:
quote:
1) I have read the entire series.
2) The concern is not necessarily with the fictional story of Harry Potter, but the FACT that it is the gateway which HAS opened the door for vulnerable children to begin exploring the real world of the occult.
Is there a reason why Ouija boards and Tarot Cards are to be found in the game section of the toy departments?
I will concede to that point, Caretaker.
Perhaps it is possible or this to occur: opening a door.
But, I believe given the appropriate amount of guidance by parents, which should always be present, that children can recognize these books as fiction.
The same way they learn that Santa Clause and the Easter Bunny are imaginary characters.
I have a funny way of thinking, I admit that.
But to me, someone trying to open a door to witchcraft based off what they have read in the Harry Potter books would be about the same as them trying to deliver Christmas presents to every kid in the world on Christmas.
You do have a point, Caretaker, on what the stores put in our children’s toy section.
But, this is because parents have allowed it to occur.
I don’t think we can blame the behavior of children on books, toys, movies or video games – we must blame the parents who brought them up carelessly and with little regard to what they were filling their minds with.
I think obsession is a disease. And some people take things to an unhealthy place.
For those that practice witchcraft because they read a Harry Potter book… Well, I say they have an unstable mind and are already pre-disposed to dangling off the cliff of sanity.
To MR;
Children are very vulnerable to peer pressure and the influences of their teachers.
You downplay the influence of the Harry Potter series, and you chide/condemn those who seek to protect the vulnerable from this gateway, encouraged by the child's peers and teachers.
There is a reason the daily horoscope/astrology is placed next to the daily cartoons.
There is a real enemy who will attack at any point of vulnerability.
Has it not also been pointed out that some of those children influenced by Harry Potter, have been seeking-out books and materials on real witchcraft/wicca/the occult?
You appear to be an adversary to those who would bring this awareness to the parents so that they could in fact more closely monitor protect their children.
--------------------
A Servant of Christ,
Drew
1 Tim. 3:
16: And without controversy great is the mystery of godliness: God was manifest in the flesh..
Posts: 3978 | From: Council Grove, KS USA | Registered: Jun 2002
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MentorsRiddle
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quote:
1) I have read the entire series.
2) The concern is not necessarily with the fictional story of Harry Potter, but the FACT that it is the gateway which HAS opened the door for vulnerable children to begin exploring the real world of the occult.
Is there a reason why Ouija boards and Tarot Cards are to be found in the game section of the toy departments?
I will concede to that point, Caretaker.
Perhaps it is possible or this to occur: opening a door.
But, I believe given the appropriate amount of guidance by parents, which should always be present, that children can recognize these books as fiction.
The same way they learn that Santa Clause and the Easter Bunny are imaginary characters.
I have a funny way of thinking, I admit that.
But to me, someone trying to open a door to witchcraft based off what they have read in the Harry Potter books would be about the same as them trying to deliver Christmas presents to every kid in the world on Christmas.
You do have a point, Caretaker, on what the stores put in our children’s toy section.
But, this is because parents have allowed it to occur.
I don’t think we can blame the behavior of children on books, toys, movies or video games – we must blame the parents who brought them up carelessly and with little regard to what they were filling their minds with.
I think obsession is a disease. And some people take things to an unhealthy place.
For those that practice witchcraft because they read a Harry Potter book… Well, I say they have an unstable mind and are already pre-disposed to dangling off the cliff of sanity.
--------------------
With you I rise,
In you I sleep,
kneeling down I kiss your feet,
Grace abounds upon me now,
I once was lost
but now I'm found.
The gift of God dwells within,
To this love I now give in.
Posts: 1337 | From: Arkansas | Registered: Sep 2003
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Caretaker
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1) I have read the entire series.
2) The concern is not necessarily with the fictional story of Harry Potter, but the FACT that it is the gateway which HAS opened the door for vulnerable children to begin exploring the real world of the occult.
Is there a reason why Ouija boards and Tarot Cards are to be found in the game section of the toy departments?
--------------------
A Servant of Christ,
Drew
1 Tim. 3:
16: And without controversy great is the mystery of godliness: God was manifest in the flesh..
Posts: 3978 | From: Council Grove, KS USA | Registered: Jun 2002
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MentorsRiddle
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quote:
No thats not even close MR...
YHWH was very clear about witches and the like:
Ex 22:
18Thou shalt not suffer a witch to live.
Mentors Riddle are you affiliated with Wicca?
white witchcraft, or the like?
I don’t think you read my previous post – if you did, I just want to make sure that you understood me.
Harry Potter is NOT true witches and wizards.
It is a fantasy. Make believe. Imagination.
They simply use the words Witch and Wizards because that is a name that people understand.
To answer your question: There was a time in my life, which I am ashamed of now, that I dabbled in the occult.
God showed me the errors of my ways and allowed me to correct.
Let me be clear, I am in no way, shape or fashion affiliated with Wicca, witchcraft, wizard or warlock sects any longer.
Now, that being said, I can promise you that Harry Potter is not true wicca, witchcraft, etc.
It doesn’t even begin to reflect or skim the surface of that type of religion.
It’s doo-doo.
Just a story made up for little kids to make them believe in a world where magic is possible.
Disney does the same thing. So does Pixar and Jim Henson studios.
Why don’t some Christians boycott them like they do Harry Potter?
The answer is because they aren’t using wisdom and discernment and are judging something based strictly on what they have been told, or how their minds perceive that thing to be.
Just because someone perceives something as being a certain way doesn’t mean it is.
Have you ever read the books?
Honestly?
--------------------
With you I rise,
In you I sleep,
kneeling down I kiss your feet,
Grace abounds upon me now,
I once was lost
but now I'm found.
The gift of God dwells within,
To this love I now give in.
Posts: 1337 | From: Arkansas | Registered: Sep 2003
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KnowHim
Admin
Member # 1
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Great posts!
Thanks
Posts: 3276 | From: Charlestown, IN | Registered: Jun 2002
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barrykind
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posted
Twelve reasons not to see Harry Potter Movies
Berit Kjos - 2001
For background information, see
Harry Potter and the Half-Blood Prince | ...the Order of the Phoenix
Overview and Application of Harry Potter | The Chamber of Secrets
Index to all our Harry Potter articles
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Notice the suggestions at the bottom of this well-distributed Harry Potter magazine:
"CAST A SPELL, MIX A POTION, TRY A TRICK!
Home
Articles
Armor
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"The premiere of Harry Potter the movie will lead to a whole new generation of youngsters discovering witchcraft and wizardry....Increasing numbers of children are spending hours alone browsing the internet in search of Satanic websites and we are concerned that nobody is monitoring this growing fascination." Peter Smith, general secretary of the British Association of Teachers and Lecturers [1]
Psychic Eye Book Shop manager cheers "the Harry Potter craze": "It's taken away a lot of the fear. People are more accepting of things like witchcraft and magic after Harry Potter came out. We find that we are a supporting environment for customers like that." Mountain View Voice, CA, 7-26-02.
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Harry Potter and the Sorcerer's Stone opened on November 16 at a record-breaking number of theaters across the country. "Christian" as well as public schools bussed their students to see the long awaited movie based on the first book in J. K. Rowling's ground-breaking series. Teachers are facilitating classroom discussions that train students to seek "common ground" and conform to an ever-changing group consensus.[2] While forbidding prayer in the name of Jesus, most schools seem to welcome spells and sorcery in the name of Harry Potter.
The pressure to participate in the fun and frenzy is intense. So what can a Christian child do in the midst of such hype, hypocrisy and popular wizardry?
Those who know God can find answers in His Word. Consider this list of Biblical warnings and wisdom, then put on the Armor of God and pray that He lead you in His way.
1. God shows us that witchcraft, sorcery, spells, divination and magic are evil. He hates those practices because they blind us to His loving ways, then turn our hearts to a deceptive quest for self-empowerment and deadly thrills. Harry Potter's world may be fictional, but the timeless pagan practices it promotes are real and deadly. Well aware that the final result is spiritual bondage and oppression, He warns us:
"There shall not be found among you anyone who... practices witchcraft, or a soothsayer, or one who interprets omens, or a sorcerer, or one who conjures spells, or a medium, or a spiritist, or one who calls up the dead. For all who do these things are an abomination to the Lord..." Deuteronomy 18:9-12
2. The movie's foundation in fantasy, not reality, doesn't diminish its power to change beliefs and values. Imaginary (or virtual) experiences and well-written fantasies can affect the mind and memories as much, if not more, than actual experiences.[3] Designed to stir feelings and produce strong emotional responses, a well-planned myth with likeable characters can be far more memorable than the less exciting daily reality -- especially when reinforced through books, toys and games as well as movies. Small wonder Harry's fans have been counting the days until their next fantastic journey into Hogwarts' classes on sorcery, divination, potions and spells.
"But they hearkened not, nor inclined their ear, but walked in the counsels and in the imagination of their evil heart, and went backward, and not forward." Jeremiah 7:24
3. Each occult image and suggestion prompts the audience to feel more at home in this setting. Children identify with their favorite characters and learn to see wizards and witches from a popular peer perspective rather than from God's perspective. Those who sense that the occult world is evil face a choice: Resist peer pressure or rationalize their imagined participation in Harry's supernatural adventures.
The second choice may quiet the nagging doubts, but rationalizing evil and justifying sin will sear the conscience and shift the child's perception of values from God's perspective to a more "comfortable" cultural adaptation. Even Christian children can easily learn to conform truth to multicultural ideals and turn God's values upside down - just as did God's people in Old Testament days:
"But they hearkened not, nor inclined their ear, but walked in the counsels and in the imagination of their evil heart, and went backward, and not forward." Jeremiah 7:24
"Woe to those who call evil good, and good evil;
Who put darkness for light, and light for darkness....
Woe to those who are wise in their own eyes,
And prudent in their own sight!" Isaiah 5:2-21
Harry Potter Special [Magazine] interviews actors Daniel Radcliffe (Harry), Rupert Grint (Ron), Tom Felton (Draco), Harry Melling (Dudley):
If you could cast a spell on someone, what would it be?
Daniel: "If I liked them, it would be a spell where I'd give them special power, like invisibility.
Your favorite word in the Harry Potter books?
Daniel: "I like the word--it's very bad to say this--but I like the word Voldemort."
What magical power would you like to have?
Rupert: "I'd like to levitate."
Do you prefer to play a bad or good character?
Tom: "Bad. It's more fun because it is different.
What magical power would you want to have?
Tom: "Invisibility. So I could sneak around and go places I shouldn't."
Did you find it hard torturing Harry?
Harry M: "No. I found it quite fun, actually."[4]
Harry Potter Special: Inside the Magical Magazine (Primedia, Inc.), pages 24, 26.
David Rockefeller ( "search" for "Rockefeller" on this site), Vice-President, Financial Operations.
4. God tells us to "abhor what is evil" and "cling to what is good." (Romans 12:9) But when Christian children and teens love the Harry Potter myths, delight in the movie and read the books again and again, they are desensitizing their hearts and minds to its evil. Turning God's truth upside down, they are learning to "love" what is evil. The natural next step is to reject God's wise boundaries and "abhor" what He calls good.
"You love evil more than good...." Psalm 52:3
5. Immersed in Hogwarts' beliefs and values, children learn to ignore or reinterpret God's truth. They lose their natural aversion for the devious spirits represented by the creatures and symbols in this eerie world. Caught up in the exciting story, they absorb the suggested values and store the fascinating images in their minds -- making the forbidden world of the occult seem more normal than the Kingdom of God.
Beware lest anyone cheat you through philosophy and empty deceit, according to the tradition of men, according to the basic principles of the world, and not according to Christ." Colossians 2:6-9
6. This inner change is usually unconscious, for the occult lessons and impressions tend to bypass rational scrutiny. After all, who will stop, think and weigh the evidence when caught up in such a fast-moving visual adventure? Fun fantasies and strategic entertainment has a special way of altering values, compromising beliefs and changing behavior in adults as well as in children. This learning process has been named "edutainment" -- a favored way to train multicultural citizens for the envisioned 21st century community. Its power to influence beliefs and behavior is illustrated by today's marketing firms which spend billions on entertaining ads that touch emotions, ignore the facts, yet motivate people to buy the product.
"Turn away my eyes from looking at worthless things, and revive me in Your way." Psalm 119:37
7. The main product marketed through this movie is a new belief system. This pagan ideology comes complete with trading cards, computer and other wizardly games, clothes and decorations stamped with HP symbols, action figures and cuddly dolls and audio cassettes that could keep the child's minds focused on the occult all day and into night. But in God's eyes, such paraphernalia become little more than lures and doorways to deeper involvement with the occult. In contrast, He calls a person "blessed" who -
"walks not in the counsel of the ungodly,
nor stands in the path of sinners,
nor sits in the seat of the scornful [mockers];
"But his delight is in the law of the Lord, and in His law he meditates day and night. Whatever he does shall prosper." Psalm 1:1-3
It might be hard to escape the symbols that remind people of Harry. His words and phrases help fuel today's cultural transformation:
The mainstream media uses the word "muggles" to deride those who don't want children to read Harry Potter books.
"A columnist from the Chicago Daily Herald used Harry-Speak.... He said that a particular NBC Olympics commentator was the 'dementor of the sports commentators.'"
"Coeur d'Alene, Idaho is going to name this year's snowstorms after the Harry Potter characters. The first blizzard of the year will be called Albus...."[4]
8. The implied source of power behind Harry's magical feats tend to distort a child's understanding of God. In the movie as in the books, words traditionally used to refer to occult practices become so familiar that children begin to apply the same terms to God and His promised strength. Many learn to see God as a power source that can be manipulated with the right kind of prayers and rituals -- and view his miracles as just another form of magic. They base their understanding of God on their own feelings and wants, not on His revelation of Himself.
"You thought that I was altogether like you; but I will rebuke you...." Psalm 50:21
9. Blind to the true nature of God, children will blend (synthesize) Biblical truth with pagan beliefs and magical practices. In the end, you distort and destroy any remnant of true Christian faith. For our God cannot be molded to match pagan gods.
“For My people have committed two evils:
They have forsaken Me, the fountain of living waters,
And hewn themselves cisterns—broken cisterns that can hold no water." Jeremiah 2:1
10. God tells us to "train up a child in the way He should go." It starts with teaching them God's truths and training them all day long to see reality from His, not the world's perspective. To succeed, we need to shield them from contrary values until they know His Word and have memorized enough Scriptures to be able to recognize and resist deception. Once they have learned to love what God loves and see from His perspective, they will demonstrate their wisdom by choosing to say "no" to Harry Potter.
“And these words which I command you today shall be in your heart. You shall teach them diligently to your children, and shall talk of them when you sit in your house, when you walk by the way, when you lie down, and when you rise up." Deuteronomy 6:6-7
11. While some argue that Harry and his friends model friendship and integrity, they actually model how to lie and steal and get away with it. Their examples only add to the cultural relativism embraced by most children today who are honest when it doesn't cost anything, but who lie and cheat when it serves their purpose.
"And even as they did not like to retain God in their knowledge, God gave them over to a debased [depraved] mind, to do those things which are not fitting.... They are whisperers, backbiters, haters of God, violent, proud, boasters, inventors of evil things, disobedient to parents, undiscerning, untrustworthy, unloving, unforgiving, unmerciful; who, knowing the righteous judgment of God, that those who practice such things are deserving of death, not only do the same but also approve of those who practice them." Romans 1:28-32
12. God has a better way. When His children choose to follow His ways, He gives them a heart to love Him, spiritual eyes that can understand and delight in His Word, a sense of His presence and a confidence in His constant care -- no matter what happens around us. Harry Potter's deceptive thrills are worse than worthless when compared to the wonderful riches our Shepherd promises those who will ignore evil and walk with Him.
"Be anxious for nothing, but in everything by prayer and supplication, with thanksgiving, let your requests be made known to God; and the peace of God, which surpasses all understanding, will guard your hearts and minds through Christ Jesus.
Finally, brethren, whatever things are true, whatever things are noble, whatever things are just, whatever things are pure, whatever things are lovely, whatever things are of good report, if there is any virtue and if there is anything praiseworthy—meditate on these things." Philippians 4:6-8
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Endnotes:
1. Teachers warn of occult dangers in Potter movie magic
2. Schools hope Harry's wand entrances pupils
3. Harry Potter and Dungeons & Dragons: Like Peas in a Pod?
4. Harry Potter Special: Inside the Magical Magazine (Primedia, Inc., no date), pages 49-53. David Rockefeller ( if you do a "search" for "Rockefeller" on this website you would see the Rockefeller influence on education and global transformation), Vice-President, Financial Operations.
You love evil more than good...." Psalm 52:3
5. Immersed in Hogwarts' beliefs and values, children learn to ignore or reinterpret God's truth. They lose their natural aversion for the devious spirits represented by the creatures and symbols in this eerie world. Caught up in the exciting story, they absorb the suggested values and store the fascinating images in their minds -- making the forbidden world of the occult seem more normal than the Kingdom of God.
Beware lest anyone cheat you through philosophy and empty deceit, according to the tradition of men, according to the basic principles of the world, and not according to Christ." Colossians 2:6-9
6. This inner change is usually unconscious, for the occult lessons and impressions tend to bypass rational scrutiny. After all, who will stop, think and weigh the evidence when caught up in such a fast-moving visual adventure? Fun fantasies and strategic entertainment has a special way of altering values, compromising beliefs and changing behavior in adults as well as in children. This learning process has been named "edutainment" -- a favored way to train multicultural citizens for the envisioned 21st century community. Its power to influence beliefs and behavior is illustrated by today's marketing firms which spend billions on entertaining ads that touch emotions, ignore the facts, yet motivate people to buy the product.
"Turn away my eyes from looking at worthless things, and revive me in Your way." Psalm 119:37
7. The main product marketed through this movie is a new belief system. This pagan ideology comes complete with trading cards, computer and other wizardly games, clothes and decorations stamped with HP symbols, action figures and cuddly dolls and audio cassettes that could keep the child's minds focused on the occult all day and into night. But in God's eyes, such paraphernalia become little more than lures and doorways to deeper involvement with the occult. In contrast, He calls a person "blessed" who -
"walks not in the counsel of the ungodly,
nor stands in the path of sinners,
nor sits in the seat of the scornful [mockers];
"But his delight is in the law of the Lord, and in His law he meditates day and night. Whatever he does shall prosper." Psalm 1:1-3
It might be hard to escape the symbols that remind people of Harry. His words and phrases help fuel today's cultural transformation:
The mainstream media uses the word "muggles" to deride those who don't want children to read Harry Potter books.
"A columnist from the Chicago Daily Herald used Harry-Speak.... He said that a particular NBC Olympics commentator was the 'dementor of the sports commentators.'"
"Coeur d'Alene, Idaho is going to name this year's snowstorms after the Harry Potter characters. The first blizzard of the year will be called Albus...."[4]
8. The implied source of power behind Harry's magical feats tend to distort a child's understanding of God. In the movie as in the books, words traditionally used to refer to occult practices become so familiar that children begin to apply the same terms to God and His promised strength. Many learn to see God as a power source that can be manipulated with the right kind of prayers and rituals -- and view his miracles as just another form of magic. They base their understanding of God on their own feelings and wants, not on His revelation of Himself.
"You thought that I was altogether like you; but I will rebuke you...." Psalm 50:21
9. Blind to the true nature of God, children will blend (synthesize) Biblical truth with pagan beliefs and magical practices. In the end, you distort and destroy any remnant of true Christian faith. For our God cannot be molded to match pagan gods.
“For My people have committed two evils:
They have forsaken Me, the fountain of living waters,
And hewn themselves cisterns—broken cisterns that can hold no water." Jeremiah 2:1
10. God tells us to "train up a child in the way He should go." It starts with teaching them God's truths and training them all day long to see reality from His, not the world's perspective. To succeed, we need to shield them from contrary values until they know His Word and have memorized enough Scriptures to be able to recognize and resist deception. Once they have learned to love what God loves and see from His perspective, they will demonstrate their wisdom by choosing to say "no" to Harry Potter.
“And these words which I command you today shall be in your heart. You shall teach them diligently to your children, and shall talk of them when you sit in your house, when you walk by the way, when you lie down, and when you rise up." Deuteronomy 6:6-7
11. While some argue that Harry and his friends model friendship and integrity, they actually model how to lie and steal and get away with it. Their examples only add to the cultural relativism embraced by most children today who are honest when it doesn't cost anything, but who lie and cheat when it serves their purpose.
"And even as they did not like to retain God in their knowledge, God gave them over to a debased [depraved] mind, to do those things which are not fitting.... They are whisperers, backbiters, haters of God, violent, proud, boasters, inventors of evil things, disobedient to parents, undiscerning, untrustworthy, unloving, unforgiving, unmerciful; who, knowing the righteous judgment of God, that those who practice such things are deserving of death, not only do the same but also approve of those who practice them." Romans 1:28-32
12. God has a better way. When His children choose to follow His ways, He gives them a heart to love Him, spiritual eyes that can understand and delight in His Word, a sense of His presence and a confidence in His constant care -- no matter what happens around us. Harry Potter's deceptive thrills are worse than worthless when compared to the wonderful riches our Shepherd promises those who will ignore evil and walk with Him.
"Be anxious for nothing, but in everything by prayer and supplication, with thanksgiving, let your requests be made known to God; and the peace of God, which surpasses all understanding, will guard your hearts and minds through Christ Jesus.
Finally, brethren, whatever things are true, whatever things are noble, whatever things are just, whatever things are pure, whatever things are lovely, whatever things are of good report, if there is any virtue and if there is anything praiseworthy—meditate on these things." Philippians 4:6-8
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Endnotes:
1. Teachers warn of occult dangers in Potter movie magic
2. Schools hope Harry's wand entrances pupils
3. Harry Potter and Dungeons & Dragons: Like Peas in a Pod?
4. Harry Potter Special: Inside the Magical Magazine (Primedia, Inc., no date), pages 49-53. David Rockefeller ( if you do a "search" for "Rockefeller" on this website you would see the Rockefeller influence on education and global transformation), Vice-President, Financial Operations.
--------------------
The HEART of the issue is truly the issue of the HEART!
John 3:3;Mark 8:34-38;James 1:27
Posts: 3529 | From: Orange, Texas | Registered: Jun 2002
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barrykind
Advanced Member
Member # 35
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posted
Harry Potter Lures Kids to Witchcraft
with Praise from Christian Leaders
By Berit Kjos
For background information, see
Twelve reasons not to see Harry Potter movies | Bewitched by Harry Potter
Harry Potter and Dungeons & Dragons | Halloween 2000 starring Harry Potter
Harry Potter and Dungeons & Dragons- Like Peas in a Pod? | Comments by visitors
Note: We are not trying to ban Harry Potter books. Our aim is to answer questions from concerned parents and help them understand the books from a Biblical perspective.
Home - Articles
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
"I was eager to get to Hogwarts first because I like what they learned there and I want to be a witch." Gioia Bishop, age 10.[1]
"I like the third book because here [Harry] meets his godfather and Professor Lupin, a really cool guy [This really "cool guy" is a werewolf as well as wizard, and Harry's godfather is a "shape shifter" who turns himself into a scary black dog]...." Harry Libarle, age 7.[2]
"The Pagan Federation has appointed a youth officer to deal with a flood of inquiries following the success of the Harry Potter books which describe magic and wizardry." Potter fans turning to witchcraft
"Dressing up as wizards and witches, concocting fantasy potions and telling stories were just a few of the games Rowling played as a child with Ian Potter..." Harry Potter and the source of inspiration
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Might Harry Potter seem as real as life to his young fans around the world? Do children accept Harry's lessons in practical witchcraft as an open door to an occult reality? Many Christian leaders have denied any such danger, but author J.K. Rowling admits that this happens. In an interview with Newsweek's Malcolm Jones, she said,
"I get letters from children addressed to Professor Dumbledore [headmaster at Hogwarts School of Witchcraft and Wizardry, the books’ setting], and it’s not a joke, begging to be let into Hogwarts, and some of them are really sad. Because they want it to be true so badly they’ve convinced themselves it’s true." (The Return of Harry Potter)
While children everywhere crave supernatural thrills, Great Britain, the birthplace of Harry Potter, has been a wonderland of options for exploring practical witchcraft. And plenty of youth have caught Harry's vision. They want to learn his wizardly ways.
Two British reports on this phenomenon show us the obvious: popular forms of occult entertainment "have fueled a rapidly growing interest in witchcraft among children." Naturally, the island's Pagan Federation is pleased. Though it refuses to admit new members under age 18, "it deals with an average of 100 inquiries a month from youngsters who want to become witches, and claims it has occasionally been 'swamped' with calls." [TV shows fuel children's interest in witchcraft]
"It is quite probably linked to things like Harry Potter, Sabrina The Teenage Witch and Buffy The Vampire Slayer," explains the Federation's media officer, Andy Norfolk. "Every time an article on witchcraft or paganism appears, we had a huge surge in calls, mostly from young girls."[Potter fans turning to witchcraft]
This trend worries John Buckeridge, editor of Youthwork, a British Christian magazine. Unlike U.S. church-leaders who back Harry Potter, he spots danger ahead. "The growing number of books and TV shows like Harry Potter and Sabrina the Teenage Witch encourage an interest in magic as harmless fun," he warms. "However for some young people it could fuel a fascination that leads to dangerous dabbling with occult powers. So what starts out as spooks and spells can lead to psychological and spiritual damage."[3]
But Mr. Norfolk disagrees. His reasoning makes witchcraft sound both safe and responsible. "Our youth officer will explain things like the principle ethic of witchcraft," he assures skeptics, "that you should not cause harm to anyone - and that it's not just an easy way to get a new boyfriend!"[4]
A more "noble" religion
It's not surprising that the timeless craving for power and magic has soared with the spread of pagan television shows and Harry Potter books. But today's pagan revival began years earlier.
Almost a decade ago, a Wiccan student wrote a promotional article for The Talon, her high school newspaper, about witchcraft. What happened shows both America's Cultural Shift and the growing preference for paganism. The student, Leah Mowry, based her conclusions on interviews with several other student witches at Los Altos High School in California.[5] In her article, she boasted that her religion
was more tolerant than traditional beliefs
taught people to take better care of the environment
helped people to empower themselves
and only used "good" magic.
Soon afterwards, a Christian student, also an editor for The Talon, asked if he could write about Young Life, a Christian group active on their campus.
"No," was the response, "because witchcraft is underexposed in our society and Christianity is overexposed." In other words, witches could give public testimonies about the benefits of their religion, but Christians were no longer allowed to express their faith and testimonies.[6]
Christianity simply doesn't fit, and Mr. Norfolk of the Pagan Federation thinks he knows why. The Christian Church has failed to provide "the right degree of spirituality for young people," he explains. In contrast, paganism involves "direct communication with the divine."
From the Biblical perspective, he is tragically wrong. But that matters little to the masses that want spiritual power without Biblical accountability. With help from television, books, movies and other media, Christianity's reputation has been badly smeared. Blamed for hatred, conflict, wars and environmental abuse, it has inspired countless "Christian" leaders to re-imagine their faith and embrace a more "tolerant" view toward the world's fast-growing fascination with pagan practices.
Strange council from Christian leaders
Typical of our times, a recent report in Christianity Today seems to base its approval of Harry Potter, not on the Bible, but on popular consensus among admired Christian leaders.
"As far as I can tell," writes author Ted Olsen, "while no major Christian leader has come out to condemn J.K. Rowling's series, many have given it the thumbs-up. If our readers know of any major Christian leader who has actually told Christians not to read the books, I'd be happy to know about it; but in my research, even those Christians known for criticizing all that is popular culture have been pretty positive about Potter."
To prove his point, Mr. Olsen quotes seven Christian leaders and publications:
1. Chuck Colson, in his Breakpoint (11-2-1999) radio broadcast, commended Harry and his friends for their "courage, loyalty, and a willingness to sacrifice for one another—even at the risk of their lives." Colson dismissed the pagan practices as
"purely mechanical, as opposed to occultic. That is, Harry and his friends cast spells, read crystal balls, and turn themselves into animals—but they don't make contact with a supernatural world…. [It's not] the kind of real-life witchcraft the Bible condemns."
2. World Magazine (5-29-1999) praised Harry Potter and the Sorcerer's Stone as
"a delight—with a surprising bit of depth." Author Roy Maynard assured World readers that "Rowling…keeps it safe, inoffensive, and non-occult. This is the realm of Gandalf and the Wizard of Id, not witchcraft. There is a fairy-tale order to it all in which, as Chesterton and Tolkien pointed out, magic must have rules, and good does not—cannot—mix with bad."
3. World's second article toned down the enthusiasm. "A reader drawn in would find that the real world of witchcraft is not Harry Potter's world. Neither attractive nor harmless, it is powerful and evil." (October 30, 1999)
4. The British Christianity magazine praised the series. In a issue, Mark Greene, Director of the London Institute for Contemporary Christianity, wrote a note of regret for not giving it to his god-daughter earlier:
"I wish I'd been the one to introduce her to Harry—fine lad you know, courageous, resourceful, humble, fun, good mind. Comes from good stock, you know. She could do worse, far worse. And, as far as literary companions go, frankly, not much better."
5. A Christian Century (12-1-99) editorial, "Wizards and Muggles," states,
"Rowling is not the first fantasy writer to be attacked by conservative Christians. Even the explicitly Christian writer Madeleine L'Engle has taken heat for the 'magic' elements in A Wrinkle in Time. Such critics are right in thinking that fantasy writing is powerful and needs to be taken seriously. But we strongly doubt that it fosters an attachment to evil powers. Harry's world, in any case, is a moral one."
6. Focus on the Family gave a mixed review. According to Ted Olsen, the advice offered by Focus's critic, Lindy Beam was simply, "Apart from the benefit of wise adult guidance in reading these books, it is best to leave Harry Potter on the shelf." ["Exploring Harry Potter's World," December, 1999]
7. Wheaton College professor Alan Jacobs concludes that Harry Potter stories promote "a kind of spiritual warfare…. A struggle between good and evil…. There is in books like this the possibility for serious moral reflection…[and] the question of what to do with magic powers is explored in an appropriate and morally serious way." (September/October, Mars Hill Audio Journal)[7]
Is it really? Take a look at the other side of this issue.
Biblical answers to occult seductions.
The mass media's promotion of contrary values have prompted even Christians to replace or distort the pursuit of God with the pursuit of pleasure. So God's standards would hardly win a popularity contest today. Popular versions of Christianity has wisely rejected some of the stiff legalism of the past, but it has also tossed out God's much-needed guidelines and warnings. The result is license to do almost anything that feels good. Christians who refuse to compromise are often demeaned as old-fashioned kill-joys who bring reproof and embarrassment to those who fear offending the world with the whole truth of the gospel. That's why Jesus warned us long ago,
"If the world hates you, keep in mind that it hated me first. If you belonged to the world, it would love you as its own. As it is, you do not belong to the world, but I have chosen you out of the world. That is why the world hates you.... Remember the words I spoke to you: ... If they persecuted me, they will persecute you also.... for they do not know the One who sent me." John 15:18-21
God gave us His Word that we might know Him. The Bible reveals His heart, will and ways. It alone can show us what is truth or error in those seven public responses to the Harry Potter phenomenon.
1. Chuck Colson praised Harry and his friends for their "courage, loyalty, and a willingness to sacrifice... for one another—even at the risk of their lives." Those qualities can be found in almost any culture. But, according to the Bible, a brave person is no more free to pursue paganism than a coward. Harry's occult skills -- witchcraft, sorcery, casting spells, spiritism, interpreting omens and "calling up the dead" fit into a category God tells us not even to discuss. "For all who do these things are an abomination to the Lord...." Eph. 5:10-12, Deut. 18:9-12
Colson's dismissal of the dangers of delighting in such evils as "purely mechanical," makes no sense from a Biblical perspective. He says that "Harry and his friends cast spells, read crystal balls, and turn themselves into animals—but they don't make contact with a supernatural world…." Where then does their power come from? Natural rather than supernatural forces?
Of course not. Rowling doesn't acknowledge the source, but anyone who has researched witchcraft and talked with contemporary pagans will see the alarming parallels between contemporary occultism and Rowling's seductive message to children. (If you find this hard to believe, please read chapters 4 and 8 of A Twist of Faith)
2. World Magazine (5-29-1999) made the same error. Calling Harry Potter's world "a delight... safe, inoffensive, and non-occult," is misleading assurance. True, "magic must have rules," but the primary rule of the occult is that Satan doesn't offer free and easy favors for long. He may indulge seekers in a free ride for a while, but as soon as his victims have been captivated by his lures -- all of which are counterfeits of what God offers those who follow Him -- he begins to demand his payoff. Suddenly the bright side of evil turns dark indeed. Attempts to resist or turn back usually lead to spiritual terrors and oppression.[8]
As World indicated, "good does not—cannot—mix with bad" but not because "good" motives are always "good," even in a pagan context. God's good is corrupted when adapted to a pagan setting. In fact, God doesn't want what He considers good to be linked to the occult. He sends us out to pagans to share His love, but we cannot delight in what He calls evil. God shows us His reason in a most politically incorrect message:
"What fellowship can light have with darkness? What harmony is there between Christ and Belial? What does a believer have in common with an unbeliever?.... For we are the temple of the living God.... 'Therefore come out from them and be separate," says the Lord.'" 2 Cor. 6:14-17
3. World's second article maintained that "the real world of witchcraft is not Harry Potter's world. Neither attractive nor harmless, it is powerful and evil."
Actually, today's pagan movement is attractive to anyone disillusioned by unfriendly churches. It entices seekers by showing the "light" side of occultism. Contemporary witches -- both men and women -- that I have met are sincere, often compassionate, usually well educated and frustrated with today's rampant materialism. Few look evil. Instead, they demonstrate God's warning in 2 Cor. 11:14-15,
"For Satan himself transforms himself into an angel of light. Therefore it is no great thing if his ministers also transform themselves into ministers of righteousness...."
The younger generation of pagans show another side. Many dabble in black magic and the other "dark arts" that are so seductively taught at Hogwart's School of Witchcraft and Wizardry.[9] Apart from the fantasy setting and dramatic demonstrations of magic, there is little difference between Harry's skills and the real world of the occult.
4. Mark Greene's endorsement in the British Christianity raises some serious questions. What does he mean by "Harry -- fine lad you know.... Comes from a good stock...." Is he referring to Harry's parents -- a witch and a wizard? Is he speaking as director of London Institute for Contemporary Christianity, or is this simply his personal opinion?
One thing is certain. This attitude is driving the current transformation of the Church. It's time for serious Christians to "count the cost" and be ready to stand uncompromisingly strong in the Truth God has given us.
5. The Christian Century denies that Harry Potter "fosters an attachment to evil powers." It calls Harry's world "a moral one." It's wrong on both points. Just review the testimony from the Pagan Federation, which reaps the fruit from the soaring interest in Witchraft.
Second, Harry and his friends may show loyalty to each other and courage in the face of danger. But they also lie and steal. Would you call that a moral world? Kenneth McCormick adds this insight:
"stealing, lies, hate, revenge, and even murder are presented in a complete absence of moral conflict. Lying exists, of course, in the plots of many children's books, but there is normally an at least tacit recognition that lying is a moral problem of some sort."
6. Focus on the Family critic, Lindy Beam came closest to the truth. The last part of her counsel is right: "Apart from the benefit of wise adult guidance in reading these books, it is best to leave Harry Potter on the shelf."
As for the first half of her counsel, it might be good to remember God's definition of wisdom: "The fear of the LORD is the beginning of wisdom, and knowledge of the Holy One is understanding."
The fear of the Lord involves a sober awareness of what He loves, of what He despises, and of the consequences of disobedience and rebellion against Him. It leads to a sincere desire to please Him, heartfelt gratefulness for His mercy, and unending delight in His loving presence. So when we choose to "fear the Lord" we will heed Romans 12:9, "Abhor what is evil. Cling to what is good."
Among the obvious evils are the practices listed in Deuternomy 18:9-12: witchcraft, sorcery, spellcasting, divination, calling up the dead, etc. In other words, children who delight in Harry's occult world of spells and magic will naturally learn to enjoy evil and crave more. But they cannot "cling to what is good" while they love evil. The two are incompatible. (Click here to compare Deut. 28 with passages from Harry Potter and the Goblet of Fire)
In other words, "wise adult guidance" would most likely choose to "leave Harry Potter on the shelf."
7. Wheaton College professor Alan Jacobs suggests that the Harry Potter books offer "the possibility for serious moral reflection…[and] the question of what to do with magic powers is explored in an appropriate and morally serious way." His words make no sense from a Biblical perspective.
Since white magic, like black magic, is "an abomination" to God -- and since white magic is far more deceptive and seductive -- neither is good. Books written from an occult perspective cannot explore magic powers in "an appropriate and morally serious way" -- without redefining the word moral and rejecting the Bible. A context or setting that approves occultism will turn God's values upside down. Praising the practices God condemns, Professor Jacobs illustrates the timeless message of Isaiah 5:20:
"Woe to those who call evil good, and good evil;
Who put darkness for light, and light for darkness;
Woe to those who are wise in their own eyes,
And prudent in their own sight!"
Tempting options and wide-open doors
Ted Olsen ended his defense of Harry with a quote by J. K Rowling:
"I have met thousands of children now, and not even one time has a child come up to me and said, 'Ms. Rowling, I'm so glad I've read these books because now I want to be a witch."
The fact is -- whether Ms Rowling heard it from a fan or not -- many children are pursuing the real-life versions of witchcraft because they have learned to love Harry's world. Ten-year-old Gioia Bishop said it well, "I was eager to get to Hogwarts first because I like what they learned there and I want to be a witch."[10]
It's no wonder a talented story-teller such as J.K. Rowling can so effectively inspire children. She grew up loving the occult. The article, Harry Potter and the source of inspiration, describes her childhood fascination and those who inspired the main characters in her books. For example, her early view of Harry was shaped by her playmate Ian Potter "whose childhood antics have startling similarities to those of the fictional schoolboy wizard." Together, they began to role-play the practices that made her books so exciting.
"We used to dress up and play witches all the time," explained Ian's sister Vikki. "My brother would dress up as a wizard. Joanne was always reading to us.... we would make secret potions for her. She would always send us off to get twigs for the potions."
Apparently, Ms Rowling knew how to find the books that nurtured her fascination even as a child. Now she, in turn, spreads her love for the occult to children around the world. Without a firm foundation in Biblical truth, they have little resistance to her seductive call. And since most older children have been thoroughly immersed in the multicultural world view in their public schools, they are likely to prefer paganism to Christianity.
From the world's perspective, why shouldn't they? Why not follow the crowd and seek a new consensus in the name of peace and unity?
After all, "paganism is recognized as a valid religion," says Mr. Norfolk of the Pagan Federation. He sees no reason why parents should be alarmed by their children's sudden interest in magic.
Nor did a spokesman from the Roman Catholic Church. "I haven't heard anything within the Catholic religion that suggests this is anything to be concerned about," he said, following the pattern of unbiblical tolerance touted by his Protestant and Anglican counterparts. Apparently, the division between church leaders who support Harry and those who don't runs through many nations and denominations. [11]
Our local library held a Harry Potter party on August 2. About a hundred children showed up to decorate Wizard hats and paint the lightening mark of Harry Potter fans on their foreheads. They provided a captive audience for adult fans of Harry's world view. Parents had to wait outside.
Preparing children for spiritual battle
Remember, this is spiritual warfare. God's enemy fights as hard as ever to win the hearts and loyalties of our children -- and he has added all kinds of high-tech tools to his armory.
To resist his strategies, they first need to understand the Biblical world view. That's why God told His people long ago to base all conversation -- day and night -- on His unchanging truth:
"These words which I command you today shall be in your heart. You shall teach them diligently to your children, and shall talk of them when you sit... walk... lie down, and when you rise up." Deut. 6:6-7
Everything we say must reflect the reality of God, His love and sovereignty, His promises and His warnings. To prove that our God is far greater than the pantheon of alternatives, our lives must demonstrate faith in the midst of difficulties and His triumph in the midst of turmoil. This is possible, not by our own strength, but by His power and grace. Then, seeing His greatness, children learn to trust His promises.
Likewise, The Armor of God (Ephesians 6:10-18) begins and ends with the power of His Word. First, we "put on the belt of Truth," which holds all the other pieces -- His righteousness, peace, faith, and salvation -- in place. The last part, "the Sword of the Spirit, which is the Word of God," is simply His truth and promises memorized, remembered and affirmed as we face each day's challenge.
This two-edged sword is our main weapon in every battle. It exposes lies and uncovers deceptions while it strengthens our faith and lifts our hearts. The world can't understand it, and many so-called Christians despise it. But to those who love God, it brings the hope, strength, joy and perseverance needed to walk with Him in peace no matter what happens.
"For though we walk in the flesh, we do not war according to the flesh. For the weapons of our warfare are not carnal but mighty in God for pulling down strongholds, casting down arguments and every high thing that exalts itself against the knowledge of God, bringing every thought into captivity to the obedience of Christ...." 2 Corinthians 10:3-5
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Footnotes
Malcolm Jones, "The Return of Harry Potter!", Newsweek (Online), July 1, 2000, page 4. Apparently, this article which was originally posted at is no longer available at the Newsweek website . I have a printed (not digitized) copy of the article which I had downloaded before its removal.
[1] "What Readers Think About Goblet?" San Francisco Chronicle, 7-26.
[2] "Harry's Biggest Fans," San Francisco Chronicle, 7-26
[3] Potter fans turning to witchcraft, Associated Newspapers Ltd., 04 August 2000,
http://www.thisislondon.co.uk/dynamic/news/story.html?in_review_id=306029&in_review_text_id=250010
[4] TV shows fuel children's interest in witchcraft
[5]Leah Mowery, "Mystical Misconceptions Haunt Students," The Talon, 7 June 1991.
[6] Based on the above Wiccan article and on personal interviews with the Christian student
[7] Ted Olsen Christianity Today
[8] See A Twist of Faith)
See Under the Spell of Mother Earth
[9] Potter fans turning to witchcraft
[10] "What Readers Think About Goblet?" San Francisco Chronicle, 7-26.
[11] Potter fans turning to witchcraft
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The HEART of the issue is truly the issue of the HEART!
John 3:3;Mark 8:34-38;James 1:27
Posts: 3529 | From: Orange, Texas | Registered: Jun 2002
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barrykind
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Im sorry Betty you dont see whats wrong with it.
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The HEART of the issue is truly the issue of the HEART!
John 3:3;Mark 8:34-38;James 1:27
Posts: 3529 | From: Orange, Texas | Registered: Jun 2002
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Betty Louise
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Mentors,
Are you going to watch the new movie? We will go as a family most likely.
betty
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Luk 21:28 And when these things begin to come to pass, then look up, and lift up your heads; for your redemption draweth nigh.
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barrykind
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Harry Potter: 'Making Evil Look Innocent'
Issue Date: November/December 2001
What are kids saying about Harry Potter? Here are some samples:
"I want to go to wizard school and learn magic. I'd like to learn to use a wand to cast spells." Dylan, age 10.
"If I could go to wizard school, I might be able to do spells and potions and fly a broomstick." Mara, age 12.
"It would be great to be a wizard because you could control situations and things like teachers." Jeffrey, age 11.
"I'd like to go to wizard school and learn magic and put spells on people. I'd make up an ugly spell and then it's pay-back time." Catherine, age 9.
"I feel like I'm inside Harry's world. If I went to wizard school I'd study everything: spells, counterspells, and defense against the dark arts." Carolyn, age 10.
"I liked it when the bad guys killed the unicorn and Voldemort drank its blood." Julie, age 13.
"The books are very clever. I couldn't put them down. When I was scared I made myself believe that it was supposed to be funny so I wasn't so scared." Nuray age 11.
These are the comments of young readers of the Harry Potter wizard books quoted on a new video by Jeremiah Films. On the video, called Harry Potter: Witchcraft Repackaged, Making Evil Look Innocent, author Robert S. McGee explains: "Children as young as kindergarten are being introduced to human sacrifice, the sucking of blood from dead animals, and possession by spirit beings."
Courts have banned the teaching of Christianity in public schools but Wicca, which is recognized by the U.S. courts as a religion and given tax-exempt status by the IRS, is taught freely. As well, Harry Potter has become the method of introduction of sorcery to the very young.
Harry Potter materials have become much more than a hand full of children's fantasy books. Warner Brothers, Coca Cola, Minutemaid, and Mattel have used the Potter materials to launch games, puzzles, toys, backpacks, and every possible merchandizing product.
Scholastic, Inc., a major supplier of public school teaching aids has added the Potter literature to its line of curriculum materials. When the name "Harry Potter" is keyed into the Scholastic.com web site search engine, it returns 268 matches. "Jesus" returned only 23.
And now, a major movie is about to break on the scene called "Harry Potter and the Sorcerer's Stone." Millions of dollars are being spent on pre-release hype.
Once introduced to the world of wizards, spells, and dark arts, readers of Harry Potter can advance their knowledge and skills in witchcraft and paganism by visiting the hundreds of web sites available on the internet.
Or, they can purchase more books on the subject from the well stocked occult sections in local book super stores. Or, they can find over a thousand volumes on witchcraft available at Amazon.com.
Harry Potter books have taken the world of children's fantasy literature by storm. Over 200 million have been sold in 40 languages. One study shows that over half of the children in the western world have read at least one of the Potter books. Many reported rereading each book several times.
But is it just fantasy literature like Snow White and Cinderella? In the Harry Potter video, cult expert Caryl Matrisciana points out that in the older stories, evil never prevails.
There are no absolutes in his world. What is right depends on the situation.
Witchcraft now has a complete package. Starting in kindergarten with Harry Potter and TV witch shows, children are led on to the horror movies and hundreds of Wicca and pagan web sites. When they thirst for more power, high school and college Wicca covens are available. In the adult world, corporations are hiring New Age practitioners to provide seminars in sensitivity training, stress relief, and self improvement for employees.
Former Satanist William Schnoebelen points out in his book, Wicca, Satan's Little White Lie, that, "I finally learned in the most graphic fashion imaginable that the difference between witchcraft or Wicca and Satanism is actually non-existent."
Before he was saved he found himself cruising the streets looking for a lone female to assault, not for sex, but to drink her blood.1
The bottom line is a hunger for power. Harry Potter and the rest of witchcraft promises that power. But in the end they discover that Satan is really in charge of the power and only uses it like cheese in a mouse trap.
Harry Potter provides a basic initiation into witchcraft for a whole new generation. Imagine what the world will be like when they grow up.
1. See also Schnoebelen, Lucifer Dethroned, chapter 18.
©1984-2010 Chick Publications, Inc. All rights reserved. Some portions of www.chick.com are copyrighted by others and reproduced by permission,. as indicated by copyright notices on individual pages.
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The HEART of the issue is truly the issue of the HEART!
John 3:3;Mark 8:34-38;James 1:27
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barrykind
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Harry Potter is Evil!
"... the sin of witchcraft..." -1st Samuel 15:23
"Ye that love the LORD, hate evil..." -Psalm 97:10
"That they all might be damned who believed not the truth, but had pleasure in unrighteousness" -2nd Thessalonians 2:12
Read what the witches have to say for themselves at http://www.witchcraft.org/books/KateWest.htm (below is a short paragraph from the above website link).
"Harry Potter, Sabrina The Teenage Witch, Buffy the Vampire Slayer, Charmed. It seems we cant get enough of all things magical or 'witchy' at the moment. The result of all this interest is that Wicca has become the fastest growing religion in the UK. Wicca is a nature-based spiritual path that celebrates the feminine, follows the changing seasons of the year and is rich with magic and enchantment. But is it all spells and hocus pocus?
Kate West's grounded introduction to the Craft separates the Hollywood myth from the everyday reality, with all the practical advice you need to follow the Wiccan way. There are many coffee-table pretenders around, but Kate West is the real thing. Her Witchcraft is about passion, not fashion! She explores the myths that surround Witchcraft, its festivals, beliefs, practices and folklore. She explains the responsibilities of becoming a Witch and provides plenty of magical and herbal spells you can work with - from charms to help you attract your ideal partner to healing potions for natural beauty to affirmations that will help you find empowerment. Witchcraft can help you to become personally fulfilled as it teaches you take control of yourself and your life. Whether you want to join a group or a work alone, this is a great guide to Wicca."
Christianity Today Magazine likes Harry Potters (actually recommends parents read witchcraft books to children!)
But God Says...
"And have no fellowship with the unfruitful works of darkness, but rather reprove them." -Ephesians 5:11
Maybe someone needs to hand a USA Today newspaper to the people over at Christianity Today...
Witches have good reason to be excited about Harry Potter. The book series is giving the "craft" a huge boost. No wonder that when interviewed by USA Today, a warlock endorsed Harry Potter and bubbled with excitement at the series’ wide acceptance by the mainstream.
He’s a charmer, that Harry Potter. The adolescent hero of J. K. Rowling’s series rides a broom, owns an invisibility cloak and magic wand, and has cast a spell over young readers the world over. He has modern-day witches enchanted too. "For once, the witches aren’t ugly old hags," said Michael Darnell, 39, a computer programmer from Winnipeg, Canada, who has been a practicing witch for over twenty-five years. "For once they’re the protagonists rather than the villains."
This is not "good" entertainment, my goodness are we that "cold"!
the love of many will wax cold.
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The HEART of the issue is truly the issue of the HEART!
John 3:3;Mark 8:34-38;James 1:27
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barrykind
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Mentors Riddle states:
quote:
Advanced Member
Member # 2108
posted September 27, 2010 03:52 PM
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Betty,
Thank you for your comment.
I think a lot of times, and I’m not just speaking about Christians, people are afraid of things they don’t understand – and so label them as heretical and demonic.
This is a similar tone that has echoed though out history.
When I was younger, I also danced to this same tune and attacked anything I didn’t understand – but with age comes maturity and understanding. We learn as we grow not to think by our emotions alone, but also by logic and wisdom.
Let us be honest: Are the Harry Potter books Christian themed? The answer is a resounding no.
But, the same argument can be used for all things: Is our work Christian oriented? Is our cars manufactured by Christian people? Do the television shows we watch have Christian themes?
For most of these questions, I would imagine, the answer is again, no.
That is where wisdom comes into play.
We must learn to filter out the things that are not Christian and accept them for what they are: either entertainment, time killers or unfortunate necessities of living (work, haha).
Now, that does not mean we should watch pornographic films and say, “oh well that’s just entertainment"? NO.
Nor does that mean we can go rob a store and call it a time killer…
We must use discernment and wisdom, which comes through the Holy Spirit.
Wisdom says that I can give something any name I want, but that doesn’t change what it is. Likewise, if I call someone a witch and they aren’t really a witch – then that does not make them a witch. This type of mentality was used in the Salem Witch Hunts, and I think we all know how many hundreds were murdered during this little event… If we don’t learn from our past we are doomed to repeat it. It sounds to me like some people really haven’t learned from history – if you catch my drift.
In Harry Potter they are called witches and wizards. But, just because they are called that doesn’t mean that is what they are – it is simply a name given to a type of fantasy character so the masses can understand what type of character it is. Because let’s face it – the masses are dumb. A person is smart, but the majority is not.
Witches and wizards conjure up the idea of magic and make believe to most who think of them.
However, there are certain religious sects and ways of thinking that immediately think of satanic things when these words are used.
So, it’s all very opinionated.
If we take the world of Harry Potter and use words that would more accurately describe their characters, I would use terms like magician – because that’s more accurate.
But what sounds more appealing to a child – Hogwarts’ School for Magicians or Hogwarts’ School for Witchcraft and Wizardry?
I hope my point has been made in this regard.
But we must judge not upon an appearance but a righteous judgment, which can only be attained through wisdom.
No thats not even close MR...
YHWH was very clear about witches and the like:
Ex 22:
18Thou shalt not suffer a witch to live.
Mentors Riddle are you affiliated with Wicca?
white witchcraft, or the like?
1 Thess 5:
19Quench not the Spirit.
20Despise not prophesyings.
21Prove all things; hold fast that which is good.
22Abstain from all appearance of evil.
23And the very God of peace sanctify you wholly; and I pray God your whole spirit and soul and body be preserved blameless unto the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ.
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The HEART of the issue is truly the issue of the HEART!
John 3:3;Mark 8:34-38;James 1:27
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MentorsRiddle
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Betty,
Thank you for your comment.
I think a lot of times, and I’m not just speaking about Christians, people are afraid of things they don’t understand – and so label them as heretical and demonic.
This is a similar tone that has echoed though out history.
When I was younger, I also danced to this same tune and attacked anything I didn’t understand – but with age comes maturity and understanding. We learn as we grow not to think by our emotions alone, but also by logic and wisdom.
Let us be honest: Are the Harry Potter books Christian themed? The answer is a resounding no.
But, the same argument can be used for all things: Is our work Christian oriented? Is our cars manufactured by Christian people? Do the television shows we watch have Christian themes?
For most of these questions, I would imagine, the answer is again, no.
That is where wisdom comes into play.
We must learn to filter out the things that are not Christian and accept them for what they are: either entertainment, time killers or unfortunate necessities of living (work, haha).
Now, that does not mean we should watch pornographic films and say, “oh well that’s just entertainment"? NO.
Nor does that mean we can go rob a store and call it a time killer…
We must use discernment and wisdom, which comes through the Holy Spirit.
Wisdom says that I can give something any name I want, but that doesn’t change what it is. Likewise, if I call someone a witch and they aren’t really a witch – then that does not make them a witch. This type of mentality was used in the Salem Witch Hunts, and I think we all know how many hundreds were murdered during this little event… If we don’t learn from our past we are doomed to repeat it. It sounds to me like some people really haven’t learned from history – if you catch my drift.
In Harry Potter they are called witches and wizards. But, just because they are called that doesn’t mean that is what they are – it is simply a name given to a type of fantasy character so the masses can understand what type of character it is. Because let’s face it – the masses are dumb. A person is smart, but the majority is not.
Witches and wizards conjure up the idea of magic and make believe to most who think of them.
However, there are certain religious sects and ways of thinking that immediately think of satanic things when these words are used.
So, it’s all very opinionated.
If we take the world of Harry Potter and use words that would more accurately describe their characters, I would use terms like magician – because that’s more accurate.
But what sounds more appealing to a child – Hogwarts’ School for Magicians or Hogwarts’ School for Witchcraft and Wizardry?
I hope my point has been made in this regard.
But we must judge not upon an appearance but a righteous judgment, which can only be attained through wisdom.
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With you I rise,
In you I sleep,
kneeling down I kiss your feet,
Grace abounds upon me now,
I once was lost
but now I'm found.
The gift of God dwells within,
To this love I now give in.
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Betty Louise
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posted
Mentors,
At first I was upset at my daughter (she is and adult) for reading the books and then I read one. Found it interesting and read them all and watch the movies. I grew up watching Bewitched and I did not want to be a witch because of it.
There are real witches. Witchcraft was big in the first town we lived in Washington State. They probably laugh at the concept of Harry Potter.
betty
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Luk 21:28 And when these things begin to come to pass, then look up, and lift up your heads; for your redemption draweth nigh.
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MentorsRiddle
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Member # 2108
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posted
quote:
Back to Harry Potter.
The Lord Of The Rings, The Chronicles Of Narnia, Harry Potter...Cinderella, Mickey Mouse, Superman.
These are all fairy tales and, in my humble opinion, it is wiser to simply say they are fairy tales - they aren't real - than to suggest that a fairy tale has some kind of supernatural power to influence us. There is real evil in the world to worry about. We should be teaching our children:
Carol, I was about to post the same exact thing as you just posted….
I think there are more important things to occupy our mind as opposed to debating the satanic influences (or lack of) regarding the Harry Potter book series.
I myself have read each and every one of them, and loved reading them.
Now, as some of you may know, I have a bit of a background in dabbling with occult things.
I can assure you that Harry Potter is NOTHING like true witch craft or wizardry.
As a matter of fact, people in the occult societys laugh at Christians who claim so. Because they usually speak out of ignorance - as they have judged an entire work on here-say and half-truths.
I even read once that Harry brought a girl back to life by chanting over her and rubbing his blood on her fore head... What a joke. Never happened.
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With you I rise,
In you I sleep,
kneeling down I kiss your feet,
Grace abounds upon me now,
I once was lost
but now I'm found.
The gift of God dwells within,
To this love I now give in.
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Carol Swenson
Admin
Member # 6929
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posted
Back to Harry Potter.
The Lord Of The Rings, The Chronicles Of Narnia, Harry Potter...Cinderella, Mickey Mouse, Superman.
These are all fairy tales and, in my humble opinion, it is wiser to simply say they are fairy tales - they aren't real - than to suggest that a fairy tale has some kind of supernatural power to influence us. There is real evil in the world to worry about. We should be teaching our children:
You are from God, little children, and have overcome them; because greater is He who is in you than he who is in the world. (1 John 4:4 NASB)
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barrykind
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Member # 35
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posted
i dont know how we got on Sabbath but you had brought up law..adn we went from thier i suppose
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The HEART of the issue is truly the issue of the HEART!
John 3:3;Mark 8:34-38;James 1:27
Posts: 3529 | From: Orange, Texas | Registered: Jun 2002
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Carol Swenson
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Member # 6929
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posted
quote:
Originally posted by barrykind:
why then would Paul, Peter James, John etc all the apostles keep the Sabbath after Yahushua rose?
They met on the Sabbath for worship, i know about breaking bread on the first day of the week, they broke bread everyday together, and i know about the collection on the first day of the week, Paul said for them to do that so he would not be bothered with it when he came..Sabbath and preach.
The Bible no where says that Paul or ANY Christian kept the Sabbath according to the commandment after the resurrection.
What we do have are frequent examples of Paul preaching to non-Christian Jews in THEIR synagogue on THEIR Sabbath day, that they are lost without Jesus! Should this surprise us? Do Sabbatarian Pastors "keep Sunday" if they preach in a Christian church on the first day of the week?
By the way, it isn't my list. It's the KJV list of all the commandments in the New Testament. Why are you fighting this? I thought you wanted to obey the Lord.
And why are we talking about the Sabbath again? This thread is about Harry Potter.
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barrykind
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posted
Yes i have read threw the bible a number of times Sister;
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The HEART of the issue is truly the issue of the HEART!
John 3:3;Mark 8:34-38;James 1:27
Posts: 3529 | From: Orange, Texas | Registered: Jun 2002
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barrykind
Advanced Member
Member # 35
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posted
why then would Paul, Peter James, John etc all the apostles keep the Sabbath after Yahushua rose?
They met on the Sabbath for worship, i know about breaking bread on the first day of the week, they broke bread everyday together, and i know about the collection on the first day of the week, Paul said for them to do that so he would not be bothered with it when he came..Sabbath and preach.
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The HEART of the issue is truly the issue of the HEART!
John 3:3;Mark 8:34-38;James 1:27
Posts: 3529 | From: Orange, Texas | Registered: Jun 2002
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Carol Swenson
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posted
quote:
Originally posted by barrykind:
So back to the point of the "LAW" you simply saying the Ten Commandments (inclusive) all the "law" of Moses is nailed to the cross, and were suppose to do good?
According to the link with the list you provided.
Is that what im understanding?
barry, are you this naive? Don't you read the New Testament? Nine of the Ten Commandments are repeated in the New Testament. There is no commandment to observe the Sabbath day because Christ is our Sabbath.
We are indwelt by the Holy Spirit of Christ. Is there any hour of any day that is not Holy?
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barrykind
Advanced Member
Member # 35
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posted
John 14:15
If ye love me, keep my commandments.
John 14:21
He that hath my commandments, and keepeth them, he it is that loveth me: and he that loveth me shall be loved of my Father, and I will love him, and will manifest myself to him.
John 14:31
But that the world may know that I love the Father; and as the Father gave me commandment, even so I do. Arise, let us go hence.
John 15:10
If ye keep my commandments, ye shall abide in my love; even as I have kept my Father's commandments, and abide in his love.
What commandments is Yahushua talking about here Carol:
The list you gave? Or what?
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The HEART of the issue is truly the issue of the HEART!
John 3:3;Mark 8:34-38;James 1:27
Posts: 3529 | From: Orange, Texas | Registered: Jun 2002
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WildB
Moderator
Member # 2917
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posted
quote:
Originally posted by barrykind:
So back to the point of the "LAW" you simply saying the Ten Commandments (inclusive) all the "law" of Moses is nailed to the cross, and were suppose to do good?
According to the link with the list you provided.
Is that what im understanding?
Yea to the point. Where u drafted? or did U stand forward? ![[rapture]](graemlins/rapture.gif)
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That is all.....
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barrykind
Advanced Member
Member # 35
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posted
So back to the point of the "LAW" you simply saying the Ten Commandments (inclusive) all the "law" of Moses is nailed to the cross, and were suppose to do good?
According to the link with the list you provided.
Is that what im understanding?
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The HEART of the issue is truly the issue of the HEART!
John 3:3;Mark 8:34-38;James 1:27
Posts: 3529 | From: Orange, Texas | Registered: Jun 2002
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barrykind
Advanced Member
Member # 35
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posted
Sister Carol posted:
quote:
What business is it of mine to judge those outside the church? Are you not to judge those inside? (1 Corinthians 5:12 NIV)
Exactly im talking about Sister Betty Posting positive about Harry Potter, and preachers endorcing (sp), this filth, witchcraft..
I dont give two hoots if the world runs after Harry...im talking about saved folks...
Yes we are to judge within, for the world is alrady condemned..
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The HEART of the issue is truly the issue of the HEART!
John 3:3;Mark 8:34-38;James 1:27
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Carol Swenson
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posted
What business is it of mine to judge those outside the church? Are you not to judge those inside? (1 Corinthians 5:12 NIV)
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barrykind
Advanced Member
Member # 35
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posted
So in your list:
quote:
6. All appearance of evil (1 Thes. 5:22)
Would that link to this thread...that we should not Support Harry Potter Books?
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The HEART of the issue is truly the issue of the HEART!
John 3:3;Mark 8:34-38;James 1:27
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barrykind
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Member # 35
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posted
i dont think you can answer my question...
you stated Carol:
quote:
For the Law was given through Moses; grace and truth were realized through Jesus Christ.
John 1:17
What "LAW" do you have to obey?
What were you talking about in the below quote Sister?
quote:
He is silly. He knows what the Law is. It's what he's always talking about.
We have many commandments in the New Testament to obey. We are not without law, but it is not the Old Testament law.
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The HEART of the issue is truly the issue of the HEART!
John 3:3;Mark 8:34-38;James 1:27
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barrykind
Advanced Member
Member # 35
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posted
Carols amended post
quote:
He is silly. He knows what the Law is. It's what he's always talking about.
We have many commandments in the New Testament to obey. We are not without law, but it is not the Old Testament law.
i would appreciate your explination of this.
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The HEART of the issue is truly the issue of the HEART!
John 3:3;Mark 8:34-38;James 1:27
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Carol Swenson
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posted
For the Law was given through Moses ; grace and truth were realized through Jesus Christ.
John 1:17
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barrykind
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Member # 35
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posted
Carol its the only way i can try to see what your talking about..
To you is the Law...The Ten Comandments; 613 Commandments with statuetes and Judgements.
What comandments are you saying you have to obey..?
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The HEART of the issue is truly the issue of the HEART!
John 3:3;Mark 8:34-38;James 1:27
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