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Topic: Hannah
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hardcore
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posted
quote:
Originally posted by helpforhomeschoolers:
Her name is Cory and she is all substance (like Iron that sharpens Iron) and not much fluff... Hardcore... ![[Big Grin]](biggrin.gif) ![[thumbsup2]](graemlins/thumbsup2.gif)
Actually, I have no idea, but that is my personal interpretation of Hardcore's handle. ![[Razz]](tongue.gif)
You've heard of the saying "bend but don't break"? Well, I don't even bend! That's about the best short & sweet way I can some up with to explain my nickname. Of course I'm not really that bad; especially in person, one on one. But I am indeed a very opinionated hot-blooded Sicilian.
Your definition sounds much nicer!
And by the way HFHS ... your post on us not being warm and fuzzy was right on. We must be a lot alike. Good thing we're several states apart. What's the old spaghetti western saying - "there's not room enough in this town for the both of us"? Or something like that. ![[Wink]](wink.gif)
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helpforhomeschoolers
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Her name is Cory and she is all substance (like Iron that sharpens Iron) and not much fluff... Hardcore...
Actually, I have no idea, but that is my personal interpretation of Hardcore's handle.
Posts: 4684 | From: Southern Black Hills of South Dakota | Registered: Jun 2002
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HisGrace
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quote:
Originally posted by hardcore:
I'm not so great with the fellowship, and I know that I often lack the patience and grace that I should have. (I know you're thinking "you can say that again!") Pleasemaranatha won't find her warm fuzzies with me, that's for sure. I was given my nickname for a reason. ![[updown]](graemlins/updown.gif)
Yes, I have often wondered about your username, sister hardcore, especially for a Christian woman. It is the sort of name a male would use to brag about his virility - no offence guys 
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helpforhomeschoolers
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Hardcore, I too am not much on warm fuzzies; I usually have not interest whatsoever in getting them and I dont care to give them either; I am sure that you are compassionate, loving and empaththetic.
God has been working in me patience for as long as I can remember; he has used this board to work a great deal of that work; I suspect that he will still be working that in me when he takes me up home.
I believe that God gives the body some who are great with hugs and warm fuzzies and some who are not. I believe that if warm fuzzies served our place in the body then we would have and give them.
It does not and we dont and that is ok;we cant be and are not supposed to be all things to all people; you can be meek and gentle and loving without giving warm fuzzies or being what you and I both would probably consider to be sicky sweet.
When we look at Paul we see that he wrote with boldness and authority and did not mince words, and he tells us that he did this that when he came in person he could come in gentleness.
I can think of plenty of OT figures that were annointed men of God and were not warm and fuzzy.
The problem is that there is a vision of those words, kind, gentle, meek and loving that is the world's vision and there is one that is God's those things are fruit of the Spirit of God and I do not believe that Jesus ever was absent any of those fruits and yet he did things that would not be considered kind or meek or loving or gentle or warm and fuzzie.
I can also relate to the schedule we too are freelancers. ![[spiny]](graemlins/spiny.gif) I might be typing this morning and find that I have to be in Wyoming or Montana in the morning and we dont fly to get there we drive!
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hardcore
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posted
quote:
Originally posted by HisGrace:
The woman in question didn't even get into this portion of Hannah's story.
With all due respect hardcore, I notice that you never, ever quote scriptures in your posts. ![[Confused]](confused.gif)
As born-again Christians we usually are hungy to share insight and discernment on how the Bible helps and comforts us in our daily lives. ![[Cross]](graemlins/cross.gif)
I don't do it very often for a few reasons.
Mostly because I find that on boards like this, scripture tends to be thrown about either with somewhat of a cavalier attitude, or as a weapon, or out of context, or all of the above. I don't want to be guilty of that, nor do I appreciate it when someone else does it.
Also, far too many times when scripture is explained and used properly, it is ignored or argued with. I am the first to admit that I am seriously lacking in patience when it comes to this; as I'm sure you can attest! I am guilty of not pursuing fellowship or study with those that I don't seem to share much common ground with.
Time is another factor for me. As I'm sure you've noticed, I pop in and out a lot. I am a pretty busy freelancer and have a very abnormal schedule. It can change often within any given day/week. It's hard for me to keep up here a lot of times, which doesn't lend itself to much in depth study. If I had the time, the inclination, and the patience that HFHS or Caretaker have, you'd probably see more out of me.
And speaking of HFHS and Caretaker, I should also say that I think they do a beautiful job of explaining and using scripture properly. I really appreciate the reverence they show our Lord and His Word. Quite frankly, I wish I had the time to delve further into some of their insight and study. Some of the bible studies I've been in lately don't really dig too deep.
I'm not so great with the fellowship, and I know that I often lack the patience and grace that I should have. (I know you're thinking "you can say that again!") Pleasemaranatha won't find her warm fuzzies with me, that's for sure. I was given my nickname for a reason.
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Pleasemaranatha
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Proverbs 10
1The proverbs of Solomon. A wise son maketh a glad father: but a foolish son is the heaviness of his mother.
A MOTHER’S WISH
If I should go to Heaven before that you are saved
Be sure to remember, children, the prayers for you I’ve prayed
My heart is now so burdened and has been for some time
To see you children Christians and not go on so blind.
The cross has been so heavy, I’m glad I’ve bore it though
For a light that shines along the way makes everything aglow
I want to go to Heaven, for rest and joy there’ll be
I’ll be there with my Savior, and you I hope to see.
The many tears I’ve shed for you I believe are not in vain
I hope that they’ll be bottled up and fall on you like rain
I’ve counseled you along the way, I hope you will take heed
And ask God to take your hand in His, ‘tis Him I know you need.
While traveling here on earth below we meet with many trials
But Christians have a leader, to be one is worth while
“Take My yoke upon you” I can hear my Savior say
He’ll guide you over temptations, He’s with you all the way.
You’ll never regret you’ve chosen Him, if once you’re on his side
And when Jesus is your leader, we’ll walk here side by side
The light that shines before you will guide your feet along
And you can sing His praises, as you go on and on.
This came from an email.
I carry this prayer in my bible.
Dear Lord Jesus,
Thankyou that we have you to support us through many difficult times. We give you glory for always hearing and answering our prayers. Thanks for loving everyone. Help us show your love by a good example. Forgive our sins God and guide us in the right direction for Your will to be done.
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My soul waiteth for the Lord more than they that watch for the morning. Psalms 130 verse 6
Joyce
Posts: 308 | From: Missouri | Registered: Oct 2005
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HisGrace
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The woman in question didn't even get into this portion of Hannah's story.
With all due respect hardcore, I notice that you never, ever quote scriptures in your posts.
As born-again Christians we usually are hungy to share insight and discernment on how the Bible helps and comforts us in our daily lives.
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hardcore
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quote:
Originally posted by HisGrace:
I don't know about anyone else, but this story of Hannah speaks to me in a mighty way. Because she chose not to be oppressed anymore, she rose above adversity, and God rewarded her tremendous faith by giving her the gift of a son, whom she named Samuel.
In her deep appreciation she allowed he son to be dedicated to a lifetime of spiritual service for God, living his life as a Nazarite like Samson.
He went on to become a great prophet and also a judge over all of Israel. God gave him the honour of prophecying that Saul would become king, and Samuel delivered the news to Saul himself.
Not only did Hannah bare Samuel. she was blessed with other children as well!!
1 Samuel 2:21 And the LORD visited Hannah, so that she conceived, and bare three sons and two daughters. And the child Samuel grew before the LORD.
The question is, and always has been:
Is it God speaking in His words or a woman's paraphrased testimony? The difference between the two has been shown very clearly.
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HisGrace
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I don't know about anyone else, but this story of Hannah speaks to me in a mighty way. Because she chose not to be oppressed anymore, she rose above adversity, and God rewarded her tremendous faith by giving her the gift of a son, whom she named Samuel.
In her deep appreciation she allowed he son to be dedicated to a lifetime of spiritual service for God, living his life as a Nazarite like Samson.
He went on to become a great prophet and also a judge over all of Israel. God gave him the honour of prophecying that Saul would become king, and Samuel delivered the news to Saul himself.
Not only did Hannah bare Samuel. she was blessed with other children as well!!
1 Samuel 2:21 And the LORD visited Hannah, so that she conceived, and bare three sons and two daughters. And the child Samuel grew before the LORD.
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HisGrace
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quote:
From HFHS -Good points all as usual Born Again. I whole heartedly agree! My only additional point is that I see and believe the scripture supports that Hannah delt with said difficulty with strength,faith, and grace not brokeness and I see that her mind was not so much to "Stand Up" against the devil as it was to bow before God and resist the devil.
quote:
Originally posted by BORN AGAIN:
So let's remember that that other wife with the babies was evil; and an evil person in one' own tent can be exceedingly difficult to deal with.God bless, BORN AGAIN
"what am I without You?"
Yes, as Ephesians 6 says, we are not fighting against flesh and blood.
Ephesians 6:11-17 (KJV)Put on the whole armour of God, that ye may be able to stand against the wiles of the devil.
For we wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this world, against spiritual wickedness in high places.
Wherefore take unto you the whole armour of God, that ye may be able to withstand in the evil day, and having done all, to stand.
STAND THEREFORE, having your loins girt about with truth, and having on the breastplate of righteousness;
And your feet shod with the preparation of the gospel of peace;
Above all, taking the shield of faith, wherewith ye shall be able to quench all the fiery darts of the wicked.
And take the helmet of salvation, and the sword of the Spirit, which is the word of God:
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helpforhomeschoolers
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Good points all as usual Born Again. I whole heartedly agree! My only additional point is that I see and believe the scripture supports that Hannah delt with said difficulty with strength,faith, and grace not brokeness and I see that her mind was not so much to "Stand Up" against the devil as it was to bow before God and resist the devil.
My intent was not convince any one anything as this is not in my ability or calling to do, but was to show why I believe that the scripture supports this for any who might hear and to show the difference between Eisegesis and Exegesis which Drew spoke of. In spite of disagreeement, which was expected, I believe that I have done as I felt led to do and I shall now leave this thread, as I have already stayed too long and fear that I appear to be arguing, which I did not and do not desire to do.
GOD Bless and
PEACE BE with YOU!
Linda
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BORN AGAIN
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Let us please also not lose sight of the fact that Penninah's other wife, the one with the babies, was evil like Leah to whom Rachel had to say, "give me of your mandrakes and I'll help you sleep tonight with Jacob whom I love" and like Ishmael "who seen mocking the child Isaac who was a child born of promise like Samuel", both from barren women.
It is one thing for Hannah to be barren and Penninah to love her dearly like Jacob loved Rachel but had to deal with Leah because of Laban's treachery, so Penninah and Hannah had to deal with the wicked spirit of the wife who was having the babies.
It cannot have been easy for either Penninah OR Hannah, and on top of that Hannah was barren, which she did does not know was for the kingdom of the LORD God of Israel, the Creator of heaven and earth. "LORD, let it be according to Your Word".
helpforhomeschoolers, as for God NEEDING anyone, I agree that God can and does and did CHOOSE Himself people out from among men, even from the womb, I think Jeremiah was summonned "from the womb" and "John the Baptist in Elisabeth's womb" comes to mind.
But I think the LORD God of Israel also encourages "cooperation" on the part of independent and loose-running human beings with their own free wills.
Take Miriam (Mary), the mother of Jesus; she said, "Be it done unto me according to Your Words" (or something like that).
But the priest Zacharias the husband of Elisabeth over-questioned "what this was all about" and as a result, Zacharias was "made dumb and could not speak" until the day that John was born.
The LORD God likes cooperation from willing men and women and children. But many times He will act sovereignly when He cannot find any men or women or children or animals to suit His current purposes.
So let's remember that that other wife with the babies was evil; and an evil person in one' own tent can be exceedingly difficult to deal with.
God bless, BORN AGAIN
"what am I without You?"
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helpforhomeschoolers
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Right Drew showed us that the word in 1 Samuel is not double at all. echad aph - another face.
Thanks for clarifying that you were speaking of the "double" in that scripture in the 8th post, now and not infering that Elkanah hated Pininnah. I was just confused. I am sorry I just needed clarification, I did not mean to seem to imply that you saying Elkanah hated anyone...which is why I asked if I had missed something. Thanks for your reply.
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HisGrace
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quote:
Originally posted by helpforhomeschoolers:
'Double portion or helping' certainly gives me a more descriptive and stronger message than 'worthy portion'.
Deut.21:15-17 (KJV) If a man have two wives, one beloved, and another hated, and they have born him children, both the beloved and the hated; and if the firstborn son be hers that was hated:
Then it shall be, when he maketh his sons to inherit that which he hath, that he may not make the son of the beloved firstborn before the son of the hated, which is indeed the firstborn:
But he shall acknowledge the son of the hated for the firstborn, by giving him a double portion of all that he hath: for he is the beginning of his strength; the right of the firstborn is his.
It is obvious that this scripture isn't talking about Hannah because it is quoted from Deut. and the both of these women had children.
I did say "'Double portion or helping' certainly gives me a more descriptive and stronger message than 'worthy portion'," and gave the two examples.
Caretaker gave us a great technical presentation, showing why my Bible version was erring by using the words 'double portion', when indeed the KJV uses that sort of terminology as well.
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helpforhomeschoolers
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8 posts up from this one:
here is the post: that confused me...
quote:
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Originally posted by Caretaker:
I was primarily pointing-out what specific translation you were using, so as to have a reference point, and the specific differences in one particular passage you used.
The passage is better translated "worthy" as the context is a preferential portion of honor, rather than a double helping. It is imperative to have the most accurate contextual understanding of any passage of scripture. This can mean going into the Hebrew or Greek words and ascertaing their meaning.
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'Double portion or helping' certainly gives me a more descriptive and stronger message than 'worthy portion'.
Deut.21:15-17 (KJV) If a man have two wives, one beloved, and another hated, and they have born him children, both the beloved and the hated; and if the firstborn son be hers that was hated:
Then it shall be, when he maketh his sons to inherit that which he hath, that he may not make the son of the beloved firstborn before the son of the hated, which is indeed the firstborn:
But he shall acknowledge the son of the hated for the firstborn, by giving him a double portion of all that he hath: for he is the beginning of his strength; the right of the firstborn is his.
2 Kings 2:8,9 (KJV)And Elijah took his mantle, and wrapped it together, and smote the waters, and they were divided hither and thither, so that they two went over on dry ground.
And it came to pass, when they were gone over, that Elijah said unto Elisha, Ask what I shall do for thee, before I be taken away from thee. And Elisha said, I pray thee, let a double portion of thy spirit be upon me.
Pretty powerful stuff.
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HisGrace
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quote:
Originally posted by helpforhomeschoolers:
That's why I asked; I did not understand the point you were making with the Double portion scripture that spoke of if a man has two wives and hates one?? I was confused. You can tell this cause I asked did I miss something.
Where did I speak of even infer that "if a man has two wives and hates one." Please show me.
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helpforhomeschoolers
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That's why I asked; I did not understand the point you were making with the Double portion scripture that spoke of if a man has two wives and hates one?? I was confused. You can tell this cause I asked did I miss something.
Posts: 4684 | From: Southern Black Hills of South Dakota | Registered: Jun 2002
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HisGrace
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quote:
Originally posted by helpforhomeschoolers:
There is nothing in the text to show that Elkanah hated one of his wives. Did I miss something? Every first born son of Israel received a double portion of inheiritance. This is indeed double as in 2x it is the word:
I have never even hinted that Elkanah hated one of his wives???
1 Samuel 1:4,5 (KJV)And when the time was that Elkanah offered, he gave to Peninnah his wife, and to all her sons and her daughters, portions:
But unto Hannah he gave a worthy portion; for he loved Hannah: but the LORD had shut up her womb.
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helpforhomeschoolers
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There is nothing in the text to show that Elkanah hated one of his wives. Did I miss something? Every first born son of Israel received a double portion of inheiritance. This is indeed double as in 2x it is the word:
08147 Mynv sh@nayim shen-ah’- yim or (fem.) Mytv sh@ttayim shet-tah’- yim
dual of 08145; n m/f dual; adj; {See TWOT on 2421 @@ ‘2421a’}
AV-two 533, twelve + 06240 105, both 69, twelfth + 06240 21, second 10, twain 7, both of them 5, twice 5, double 5, misc 8; 768
1) two
1a) two (the cardinal number)
1a1) two, both, double, twice
1b) second (the ordinal number)
It is not the word that is given for Hannah's worthy portion... it is worthy because it is a thanksgiving or peace offering and it is worthy because she is worthy of the greatest thanksgiving to God for her in the eyes of her husband... He is better to her than if she had 10 sons.... better to her than to Peninnah who gave him 2 sons. It is a phrase that means 2 faced or more accurately another faced portion it is meat that is both lean and fat/ full of flavor/ marbled and tender/ it is the choice of the meat.
The words translated worthy are "echad aph" another face. ONE portion with two faces.
0639 Pa ‘aph af
from 0599; n m; {See TWOT on 133 @@ ‘133a’}
AV-anger 172, wrath 42, face 22, nostrils 13, nose 12, angry 4, longsuffering + 0750 4, before 2, countenance 1, forbearing 1, forehead 1, snout 1, worthy 1; 276
1) nostril, nose, face
2) anger
0259 dxa ‘echad ekh-awd’
a numeral from 0258; adj; {See TWOT on 61}
AV-one 687, first 36, another 35, other 30, any 18, once 13, eleven + 06240 13, every 10, certain 9, an 7, some 7, misc. 87; 952
1) one (number)
1a) one (number)
1b) each, every
1c) a certain
1d) an (indefinite article)
1e) only, once, once for all
1f) one...another, the one...the other, one after another, one by one
1g) first
1h) eleven (in combination), eleventh (ordinal)
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HisGrace
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NLT, NIV or KJV ![[Bible]](graemlins/bible.gif)
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hardcore
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posted
quote:
Originally posted by HisGrace:
quote:
Originally posted by Caretaker:
For me there is some concern with the NASB which His Grace quotes from, as it often subtlly changes the contextual meanings of portions of scripture.
I have never quoted from the NASB version.
Which version do you quote from?
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HisGrace
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quote:
Originally posted by Caretaker:
For me there is some concern with the NASB which His Grace quotes from, as it often subtlly changes the contextual meanings of portions of scripture.
I have never quoted from the NASB version.
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Caretaker
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For me there is some concern with the NASB which His Grace quotes from, as it often subtlly changes the contextual meanings of portions of scripture.
1 Timothy 2:7 KJV "Whereunto I am ordained a preacher, and an apostle, (I speak the truth in Christ, and lie not;) a teacher of the Gentiles in faith and verity." NASB "And for this I was appointed a preacher and an apostle (I am telling the truth, I am not lying) as a teacher of the Gentiles in faith and truth." NASB leaves out "in Christ."
1 Timothy 3:16 KJV "And without controversy great is the mystery of godliness: God was manifest in the flesh, justified in the Spirit, seen of angels, preached unto the Gentiles, believed on in the world, received up into glory." NASB "And by common confession great is the mystery of godliness: He who was revealed in the flesh, Was vindicated in the Spirit, Beheld by angels, Proclaimed among the nations, Believed on in the world, Taken up in glory." NASB changes 'God was manifest in the flesh' to 'He who was revealed in the flesh.' Also the added 'who' changes the sentence structure and meaning. Jesus came in the flesh and was God manifest in the flesh. This is lost in the NASB.
2 Timothy 4:22 KJV "The Lord Jesus Christ be with you. Grace be with you. Amen." NASB "The Lord be with your spirit. Grace be with you." NASB leaves out "Jesus Christ." So whom is the reference speaking of that is Lord? They don't want Jesus to get the honor and glory due Him, nor for you to serve Him as your Lord and Savior.
Hebrews 2:7 KJV "Thou made Him a little lower than the angels; thou crownedst Him with glory and honour, and didst set Him over the works of thy hands." NASB ""THOU HAST MADE HIM FOR A LITTLE WHILE LOWER THAN THE ANGELS; THOU HAST CROWNED HIM WITH GLORY AND HONOR, AND HAST APPOINTED HIM OVER THE WORKS OF THY HANDS;" NASB leaves out "and didst set Him over the works of thy hands." Why do they continually leave out the most significant parts of these verses that show Jesus to be both Lord and Savior?
1 John 5:7 KJV "For there are three that bear record in heaven, the Father, the Word, and the Holy Ghost: and these three are one." NASB "And it is the Spirit who bears witness, because the Spirit is the truth." NASB totally changes the meaning of the verse, leaving out the Father and the Word (Jesus) and has only one witness instead of three. This is leaving out the trinity.
1 John 5:13 KJV "These things have I written unto you that believe on the name of the Son of God; that ye may know that ye have eternal life, and that ye may believe on the name of the Son of God." NASB "These things I have written to you who believe in the name of the Son of God, in order that you may know that you have eternal life." NASB leaves out the last 13 words of the verse (underlined) that speak of putting our faith in Christ.
Revelation 1:11 KJV "Saying, I am Alpha and Omega, the first and the last: and What thou seest, write in a book and send it to the seven churches which are in Asia ..." NASB "saying, "Write in a book what you see, and send it to the seven churches: . . ."" NASB leaves out "I am Alpha and Omega, the first and the last." This is a reference to Christ, and who He is, as the eternal God, the only begotten of the Father, and the firstborn from the dead.
Revelation 5:14b KJV "... And the four and twenty elders fell down and worshipped Him that liveth for ever and ever." NASB "And the four living creatures kept saying, "Amen." And the elders fell down and worshiped." NASB leaves out "Him that liveth for ever and ever." Who were the elders worshipping? The lamb who was slain, the one who said in Revelation 2:8 "These things saith the first and the last, which was dead, and is alive."
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A Servant of Christ,
Drew
1 Tim. 3:
16: And without controversy great is the mystery of godliness: God was manifest in the flesh..
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HisGrace
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quote:
Originally posted by Caretaker:
I was primarily pointing-out what specific translation you were using, so as to have a reference point, and the specific differences in one particular passage you used.
The passage is better translated "worthy" as the context is a preferential portion of honor, rather than a double helping. It is imperative to have the most accurate contextual understanding of any passage of scripture. This can mean going into the Hebrew or Greek words and ascertaing their meaning.
'Double portion or helping' certainly gives me a more descriptive and stronger message than 'worthy portion'.
Deut.21:15-17 (KJV) If a man have two wives, one beloved, and another hated, and they have born him children, both the beloved and the hated; and if the firstborn son be hers that was hated:
Then it shall be, when he maketh his sons to inherit that which he hath, that he may not make the son of the beloved firstborn before the son of the hated, which is indeed the firstborn:
But he shall acknowledge the son of the hated for the firstborn, by giving him a double portion of all that he hath: for he is the beginning of his strength; the right of the firstborn is his.
2 Kings 2:8,9 (KJV)And Elijah took his mantle, and wrapped it together, and smote the waters, and they were divided hither and thither, so that they two went over on dry ground.
And it came to pass, when they were gone over, that Elijah said unto Elisha, Ask what I shall do for thee, before I be taken away from thee. And Elisha said, I pray thee, let a double portion of thy spirit be upon me.
Pretty powerful stuff. ![[hyper]](graemlins/hyper.gif)
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Caretaker
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His grace:You have totally lost Me Caretaker?? I don't how snouts and nostrils got into this conversation.
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That is the Hebrew word, "'aph" which is translated "double", as in "double" portion in the NASB which you quote, and translated "worthy" portion in the KJV which I quoted. I was showing the difference in translation, from the Strong's Concordence.
KJV
1 Samuel 1:
4: And when the time was that Elkanah offered, he gave to Peninnah his wife, and to all her sons and her daughters, portions:
5: But unto Hannah he gave a worthy portion; for he loved Hannah: but the LORD had shut up her womb.
New American Standard
1 Samuel 1:
4 When the day came that Elkanah sacrificed, he would R9 give portions to Peninnah his wife and to all her sons and her daughters; 5 but to Hannah he would give a double portion, for he loved Hannah, but R10 the LORD had closed her womb
I was primarily pointing-out what specific translation you were using, so as to have a reference point, and the specific differences in one particular passage you used.
The passage is better translated "worthy" as the context is a preferential portion of honor, rather than a double helping. It is imperative to have the most accurate contextual understanding of any passage of scripture. This can mean going into the Hebrew or Greek words and ascertaing their meaning.
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A Servant of Christ,
Drew
1 Tim. 3:
16: And without controversy great is the mystery of godliness: God was manifest in the flesh..
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HisGrace
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You have totally lost Me Caretaker?? I don't how snouts and nostrils got into this conversation.
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His Grace:
quote:From BORN AGAIN -While I think they can be DELICIOUS TO READ, Bibles which add a lot of words to what is there in the original language are NOT VERY GOOD for proving points of discussion, because amplified Bibles can add a lot of words which do not really exist in the Hebrew and Greek Bibles
I don't use the Amplified Version.
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His Grace:
1 Samuel1: 4 -5 Whenever the day came for Elkanah to sacrifice, he would give portions of the meat to his wife Peninnah and to all her sons and daughters. But to Hannah he gave a double portion because he loved her, and the LORD had closed her womb.
KJV
1 Samuel 1:
4: And when the time was that Elkanah offered, he gave to Peninnah his wife, and to all her sons and her daughters, portions:
5: But unto Hannah he gave a worthy portion; for he loved Hannah: but the LORD had shut up her womb.
New American Standard
1 Samuel 1:
4 When the day came that Elkanah sacrificed, he would R9 give portions to Peninnah his wife and to all her sons and her daughters; 5 but to Hannah he would give a double portion, for he loved Hannah, but R10 the LORD had closed her womb
NAS word "double"
Strong's Number: 639 Browse Lexicon
Original Word Word Origin
@a from (0599)
Transliterated Word TDNT Entry
'aph TWOT - 133a
Phonetic Spelling Parts of Speech
af Noun Masculine
Definition
1. nostril, nose, face
2. anger
NAS Word Usage - Total: 274
anger 205, angry 2, angry* 5, before 2, breath 1, countenance 1, double 1, face 15, faces 4, forbearance* 1, ground 1, nose 10, noses 1, nostril 1, nostrils 13, quick-tempered* 1, snout 1, wrath 8, wrath with his anger 1
KJV word "worthy"
Strong's Number: 0639 Browse Lexicon
Original Word Word Origin
@a from (0599)
Transliterated Word TDNT Entry
'aph TWOT - 133a
Phonetic Spelling Parts of Speech
af Noun Masculine
Definition
1. nostril, nose, face
2. anger
King James Word Usage - Total: 276
anger 172, wrath 42, face 22, nostrils 13, nose 12, angry 4, longsuffering + (0750) 4, before 2, countenance 1, forbearing 1, forehead 1, snout 1, worthy 1
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A Servant of Christ,
Drew
1 Tim. 3:
16: And without controversy great is the mystery of godliness: God was manifest in the flesh..
Posts: 3978 | From: Council Grove, KS USA | Registered: Jun 2002
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quote:
Originally posted by BORN AGAIN:
The LORD needed a barren Hannah. Why? Because the LORD needed Hannah to become desperate enough to be willing to give up her son, desperate till she said, "LORD, I'll give him to You for the rest of his life if You'll only give me a son!"
The LORD needed Hannah and Samuel for His people Israel.
May the LORD God of Israel bless us all, BORN AGAIN in the USA
Amen!! God needs us. Sometimes we have to really die to the old man and the flesh in order to gain complete victory through God's power. I believe this is the message we should be focusing on.
quote:
From BORN AGAIN -While I think they can be DELICIOUS TO READ, Bibles which add a lot of words to what is there in the original language are NOT VERY GOOD for proving points of discussion, because amplified Bibles can add a lot of words which do not really exist in the Hebrew and Greek Bibles
I don't use the Amplified Version.
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helpforhomeschoolers
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quote:
The LORD needed a barren Hannah. Why? Because the LORD needed Hannah to become desperate enough to be willing to give up her son, desperate till she said, "LORD, I'll give him to You for the rest of his life if You'll only give me a son!"
The LORD needed Hannah and Samuel for His people Israel.
May the LORD God of Israel bless us all, BORN AGAIN in the USA
Perhaps Born Again: I tend to see that God does not "need" but that God raises up exactly whom HE has ordained for to do and complish HIS will at exactly HIS perfect timing. Maybe we are saying the same thing, but looking from different angles though. I see that as a very real possibility.
I tend to think that her barren-ness was from the beginning only until such time as this...The exact and predetermined time for Samuel, who would be just the right person to take the the office from Eli, be the last judge of Israel, and annoint David. That Hannah and Elkanah were chosen because of who they were... Hannah a woman of great strength and fear of the Lord who did not sin even when she edured great adversity, but took her petitions to the LORD and pleaded with him, not for herself, but for her husband and her nation and in that was prsonally blessed, and Elkanah, a man of great love.. not unlike that of our Jesus, who loved this woman with more love than if she had given him 10 sons and though those in his family and surely those around him saw her as a cursed woman, he loved her enough to give her the best and a man who in a time when Israel was doing as every man saw fit in his own eyes to do, was faithful to keep the pilgrimage fests and take his sons and his family and lead them in the way that God had commanded, a man that would gladly honor his's wife's bold vow (women could not make this vow) to give their son as a nazarite. I dont see Hannah as desperate or Broken... I see a woman of great strength and courage, and woman who like David who was bold enough to eat the shewbread, Hannah was bold enough in relationship with the Lord to be angry and not sin; to go directly to God with her complaint, to commit her son to God, to bring honor to her family and the nation because of her unselfishness and her trust not just in GOD but in who she was with God... not a woman of belial, but a handmaiden of the LORD.
quote:
While I think they can be DELICIOUS TO READ, Bibles which add a lot of words to what is there in the original language are NOT VERY GOOD for proving points of discussion, because amplified Bibles can add a lot of words which do not really exist in the Hebrew and Greek Bibles.
Amen! This is well said!
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BORN AGAIN
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dear sister HisGrace, I tend to side with helpforhomeschoolers when it comes to Bibles which stray too far from the underlying Hebrew and Aramaic and Greek words.
While I think they can be DELICIOUS TO READ, Bibles which add a lot of words to what is there in the original language are NOT VERY GOOD for proving points of discussion, because amplified Bibles can add a lot of words which do not really exist in the Hebrew and Greek Bibles.
God bless, BORN AGAIN
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BORN AGAIN
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The LORD needed a barren Hannah. Why? Because the LORD needed Hannah to become desperate enough to be willing to give up her son, desperate till she said, "LORD, I'll give him to You for the rest of his life if You'll only give me a son!"
The LORD needed Hannah and Samuel for His people Israel.
May the LORD God of Israel bless us all, BORN AGAIN in the USA
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BORN AGAIN
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why not plead the tenth.
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HisGrace
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quote:
Originally posted by helpforhomeschoolers:
.
This one bothers me I think the most... where is the "An Hannah Prayed"? Was that not important? Her horn... her hill, her position is exhalted IN the Lord... her mouth has been large over the enemy and she opened it or said not one ill word to Pininnah... as she rejoices? NO BECAUSE she... stood up to the devil... decided to get tough and pray bold prayers? NO BECAUSE NOT AS, BUT BECAUSE SHE REJOICES IN HIS SALVATION!!!!!!!
HisGrace: It is obvious to me that these details are un important to you.
What on earth are you talking about? 'Victory and rejoicing' is the message I have been shouting throughout this whole thread, but instead I keep being sidetracked with 'details.' If we start analysing and dissecting every little word we can miss out on what God is trying to teach us through the core message.
quote:
BORN AGAIN here: tell me ladies, is your husband better than ten sons?
I am afraid I am going to have to plead the Fifth on this one BORN AGAIN. Then again I can't imagine raising 10 sons. Yikes!! ![[youpi]](graemlins/youpi.gif)
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BORN AGAIN
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The last time I read about sister Hannah and sister Penninah, I wept for sister Hannah: ![[crying]](graemlins/crying.gif)
1 Samuel 1:2
And he {Elkanah} had two wives; the name of the one {wife} was Hannah, and the name of the other {wife was} Peninnah; and Peninnah had children, but Hannah had no children.
BORN AGAIN here: Hannah is in a rough spot. The wife who is ridiculing Hannah is having babies. Hannah wants to have a baby badly, but is having trouble having a baby...
1 Samuel 1:5
But to Hannah he {her husband Elkanah} gave a worthy portion; for he {Elkanah} loved Hannah; but the LORD had shut up her womb.
BORN AGAIN here: The LORD God of Israel, the Creator of heaven and earth, had plans for Hannah's barrenness.
1 Samuel 1:8
Then said her husband Elkanah to her, "Hannah, why are you weeping? And why are you not eating? And why is your heart grieved? Am I not better to you than ten sons?"
BORN AGAIN here: tell me ladies, is your husband better than ten sons? ![[happyhappy]](graemlins/happyhappy.gif)
May the LORD God of Israel bless all who participate on this CBBS, I am BORN AGAIN by the of Lord God Jeshua-Jesus of Nazareth, but born in Bethlehem of Judah ("...just fishin'...")
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helpforhomeschoolers
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quote:
Samual 1:9-17 Once when they had finished eating and drinking in Shiloh, HANNAH STOOD UP.(She finally decided to stand up and be bold and really cry out to God in desperation.)
Now Eli the priest was sitting on a chair by the doorpost of the LORD's temple.
1 Samuel 1:9 So Hannah rose up after they had eaten in Shiloh, and after they had drunk. Now Eli the priest sat upon a seat by a post of the temple of the LORD.
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quote:
In bitterness of soul Hannah wept much and prayed to the LORD. And she made a vow, saying, "O LORD Almighty, if you will only look upon your servant's misery and remember me, and not forget your servant but give her a son, then I will give him to the LORD for all the days of his life, and no razor will ever be used on his head."
1 Samuel 1:10 And she was in bitterness of soul, and prayed unto the LORD, and wept sore.
1 Samuel 1:11 And she vowed a vow, and said, O LORD of hosts, if thou wilt indeed look on the affliction of thine handmaid, and remember me, and not forget thine handmaid, but wilt give unto thine handmaid a man child, then I will give him unto the LORD all the days of his life, and there shall no razor come upon his head.
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quote:
As she kept on praying to the LORD, Eli observed her mouth. Hannah was praying in her heart, and her lips were moving but her voice was not heard. Eli thought she was drunk and said to her, "How long will you keep on getting drunk? Get rid of your wine."
1 Samuel 1:12 And it came to pass, as she continued praying before the LORD, that Eli marked her mouth.
1 Samuel 1:13 Now Hannah, she spake in her heart; only her lips moved, but her voice was not heard: therefore Eli thought she had been drunken.
1 Samuel 1:14 And Eli said unto her, How long wilt thou be drunken? put away thy wine from thee.
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quote:
"Not so, my lord," Hannah replied, "I am a woman who is deeply troubled. I have not been drinking wine or beer; I was pouring out my soul to the LORD. Do not take your servant for a wicked woman; I have been praying here out of my GREAT ANQUISH AND GRIEF. {Her spirit had finally been broken.}
1 Samuel 1:15 And Hannah answered and said, No, my lord, I am a woman of a sorrowful spirit: I have drunk neither wine nor strong drink, but have poured out my soul before the LORD.
1 Samuel 1:16 Count not thine handmaid for a daughter of Belial: for out of the abundance of my complaint and grief have I spoken hitherto.
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quote:
Eli answered, "Go in peace, and may the God of Israel grant you what you have asked of him."
1 Samuel 1:17 Then Eli answered and said, Go in peace: and the God of Israel grant thee thy petition that thou hast asked of him.
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quote:
She said, "May your servant find favor in your eyes." Then she went her way and ate something, AND HER FACE WAS NO LONGER DOWNCAST. ( She finally had a breakthrough and gained victory over the enemy.)
1 Samuel 1:18 And she said, Let thine handmaid find grace in thy sight. So the woman went her way, and did eat, and her countenance was no more sad.
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![[type]](graemlins/type.gif) Does that help. I was having trouble seeing in this little window and your text sometimes runs two of my verses, so it makes it confusing with the numbers. I am sorry. I dont think it changes either of our differingpoints but it does make it more clear and easy on the eyes. I can delete the one above so as not to confuse anyone else if you are in agreement.
These were my questions and comments below:
Perhaps you can help me. Can you show me the hebrew words in your Bible for this phrase that does not exisit in my verse 6 here: "YEAR AFTER YEAR IT WAS THE SAME - Peninnah would taunt Hannah as they went to the Tabernacle. Hannah would finally be reduced to tears and would not even eat."
Can you show me the Hebrew word in your Bible that under lies this word here in your Bible translated Chair because I assure you that this word is not the Hebrew word for Chair... it is the hebrew word for throne - a seat of dignity or power, a seat of authority and God intended us to know this! It is important to the text.
Show me too please the underlying Hebrew text for this line that also is not stated in the scriptures: "(She finally decided to stand up and be bold and really cry out to God in desperation.)"
Show me please the underlying Hebrew word for "Oh, Lord Almighty"? The word is tsaba' The LORD OF HOSTS... Do you think that God's choice to call himself in this scripture the Lord of Hosts and not the Lord God Almighty el Shadday was something to take in such a cavalier manner that you could substitute any of God's names you wished? In this text HE has called himself the LORD OF HOSTS.
Could you show me from your Bible the word for "troubled Spirit" there is one word in Hebrew for troubled and another that means hard hearted, stiff necked obstinate they are not the same. Hannah was not dealing with brokenness... she was dealing with anger and not sinning!!!!
Maybe you could give me the underlying Hebrew word for anguish?
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quote:
Yours:
1 Samuel 2:1,2 My heart rejoices in the Lord. Oh, how the Lord has blessed me! No I have an answer for my enemies, as I delight IN YOUR DELIVERANCE. No one is holy like the Lord! There is no one besides you,. there is no Rock like our God.
Mine:
1 Samuel 2:1 ¶ And Hannah prayed, and said, My heart rejoiceth in the LORD, mine horn is exalted in the LORD: my mouth is enlarged over mine enemies; because I rejoice in thy salvation.
This one bothers me I think the most... where is the "An Hannah Prayed"? Was that not important? Her horn... her hill, her position is exhalted IN the Lord... her mouth has been large over the enemy and she opened it or said not one ill word to Pininnah... as she rejoices? NO BECAUSE she... stood up to the devil... decided to get tough and pray bold prayers? NO BECAUSE NOT AS, BUT BECAUSE SHE REJOICES IN HIS SALVATION!!!!!!!
HisGrace: It is obvious to me that these details are un important to you. I do not understand that, but that is your business.
Obviously these details are very important to me. Our language is so different that Hebrew or Greek and I beleive that God chose Hebrew and Greek for the original text for HIS purpose because they reflected what he wanted understood. I believe when God brought the Bible to us in English, HE provided for us to have that underlying meaning. Men like Tyndale who gave their lives to bring us the scriptures in English translated directly from the Hebrew and Greek texts and eventually we got the KJV, I am so thankful to be able to click on any word and see what God meant when he said Eli sat on a seat. I find understanding in knowing that it was not just a chair, but a seat of honor and authority. I believe that God wanted me to know that; it tells me something about Hannah's actions.
So I am into the details. I find the majesty of God in the details. I could care less that some TV preacher thinks that when it says Hannah arose from the table after dinner that it means she Stood Up to the Devil. I am more interested in the details that are already there by the hand of God. I understand that arose is the word and our english idom Stood Up are two different things and have two different meanings and God did not use our English idiom Stood Up.
I think that is important that the "year after year" is attached to Elkanah's actions and not Pinannah's as your text attaches it. God attached it to Elkanah's actions for a reason.
So it seems that our difference is a difference in what is important to us. For what ever reasons I dont know we differ in this. I am into details you are not. That makes us different. Does that make one of us right and one of us wrong? God knows.
Here is what I know:
Matthew 4:4 But he answered and said, It is written, Man shall not live by bread alone, but by every word that proceedeth out of the mouth of God.
1 Corinthians 4:6 And these things, brethren, I have in a figure transferred to myself and to Apollos for your sakes; that ye might learn in us not to think of men above that which is written, that no one of you be puffed up for one against another.
John 14:23 Jesus answered and said unto him, If a man love me, he will keep my words: and my Father will love him, and we will come unto him, and make our abode with him.
Luke 21:33 Heaven and earth shall pass away: but my words shall not pass away.
I also know that one little tiny 4 word phrase out of Eve's mouth was enough to tell the devil that she did not know what God had said...
Genesis 3:3 But of the fruit of the tree which is in the midst of the garden, God hath said, Ye shall not eat of it, neither shall ye touch it, lest ye die.
One little four word phrase was enough of a foothold for the enemy to know that he could walk all over Eve and send the whole world into sin.
Details!
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When I quote scripture I go into biblegateway.com and take the scripture that is most profound and most clearly describes what is being said. Sometimes the KJV is very evasive for my simple mind.
quote:
Originally posted by helpforhomeschoolers:
Yours:
Samuel 1:6 But Peninnah made fun of Hannah because the Lord had closed her womb. YEAR AFTER YEAR IT WAS THE SAME - Peninnah would taunt Hannah as they went to the Tabernacle. Hannah would finally be reduced to tears and would not even eat.
Mine:
1 Samuel 1:6 And her adversary also provoked her sore, for to make her fret, because the LORD had shut up her womb.
This went on for year after year because in your bible it says right after in verse 7
7And as he did so year by year, when she went up to the house of the LORD, so she provoked her; therefore she wept, and did not eat.
~You may say that her adversary was the devil, but he worked through Pinennah.
quote:
yours:
1Samuel 1:Samual 1:9-17 Once when they had finished eating and drinking in Shiloh, HANNAH STOOD UP.(She finally decided to stand up and be bold and really cry out to God in desperation.)
Now Eli the priest was sitting on a chair by the doorpost of the LORD's temple.
Mine: 9 ¶ So Hannah rose up after they had eaten in Shiloh, and after they had drunk. Now Eli the priest sat upon a seat by a post of the temple of the LORD.
In bitterness of soul Hannah wept much and prayed to the LORD. And she made a vow, saying, "O LORD Almighty, if you will only look upon your servant's misery and remember me, and not forget your servant but give her a son, then I will give him to the LORD for all the days of his life, and no razor will ever be used on his head."
The interpretation I used said Stood up and yours said rose up. Not much difference I would say. I personally like 'stood up' because it has a more strong and mighty meaning in my opinion. You have added extra verses to yours as well.
quote:
Mine: 10 And she was in bitterness of soul, and prayed unto the LORD, and wept sore.
11 And she vowed a vow, and said, O LORD of hosts, if thou wilt indeed look on the affliction of thine handmaid, and remember me, and not forget thine handmaid, but wilt give unto thine handmaid a man child, then I will give him unto the LORD all the days of his life, and there shall no razor come upon his head.
Yours: As she kept on praying to the LORD, Eli observed her mouth. Hannah was praying in her heart, and her lips were moving but her voice was not heard. Eli thought she was drunk and said to her, "How long will you keep on getting drunk? Get rid of your wine."
Something went wrong here HFHS, yours were verse 10 and 11, but my were verses 12 and 13.
Verses 10 and 11, in 'mine'10 In bitterness of soul Hannah wept much and prayed to the LORD. 11 And she made a vow, saying, "O LORD Almighty, if you will only look upon your servant's misery and remember me, and not forget your servant but give her a son, then I will give him to the LORD for all the days of his life, and no razor will ever be used on his head."
~The two versions look a lot alike to me??
quote:
Mine: 12 And it came to pass, as she continued praying before the LORD, that Eli marked her mouth. 13 Now Hannah, she spake in her heart; only her lips moved, but her voice was not heard: therefore Eli thought she had been drunken. 14 And Eli said unto her, How long wilt thou be drunken? put away thy wine from thee
Yours: "Not so, my lord," Hannah replied, "I am a woman who is deeply troubled. I have not been drinking wine or beer; I was pouring out my soul to the LORD. Do not take your servant for a wicked woman; I have been praying here out of my GREAT ANQUISH AND GRIEF. {Her spirit had finally been broken.}
Woops again - you have included verse 15 in my quote.
quote:
Mine: 15 And Hannah answered and said, No, my lord, I am a woman of a sorrowful spirit: I have drunk neither wine nor strong drink, but have poured out my soul before the LORD.
16 Count not thine handmaid for a daughter of Belial: for out of the abundance of my complaint and grief have I spoken hitherto.
Yours: Eli answered, "Go in peace, and may the God ofIsrael grant you what you have asked of him."
You forgot verses 15 and 16 in mine
and didn't put my verse 17 in yours.
15 "Not so, my lord," Hannah replied, "I am a woman who is deeply troubled. I have not been drinking wine or beer; I was pouring out my soul to the LORD. 16 Do not take your servant for a wicked woman; I have been praying here out of my great anguish and grief."
17 Eli answered, "Go in peace, and may the God of Israel grant you what you have asked of him."
This is getting too complicated, I have to stop.
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helpforhomeschoolers
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I am inteligent enough to see that we read different Bibles:
Yours:
Samuel 1:6 But Peninnah made fun of Hannah because the Lord had closed her womb. YEAR AFTER YEAR IT WAS THE SAME - Peninnah would taunt Hannah as they went to the Tabernacle. Hannah would finally be reduced to tears and would not even eat.
Mine:
1 Samuel 1:6 And her adversary also provoked her sore, for to make her fret, because the LORD had shut up her womb.
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yours:
1Samuel 1:Samual 1:9-17 Once when they had finished eating and drinking in Shiloh, HANNAH STOOD UP.(She finally decided to stand up and be bold and really cry out to God in desperation.)
Now Eli the priest was sitting on a chair by the doorpost of the LORD's temple.
Mine: 9 ¶ So Hannah rose up after they had eaten in Shiloh, and after they had drunk. Now Eli the priest sat upon a seat by a post of the temple of the LORD.
In bitterness of soul Hannah wept much and prayed to the LORD. And she made a vow, saying, "O LORD Almighty, if you will only look upon your servant's misery and remember me, and not forget your servant but give her a son, then I will give him to the LORD for all the days of his life, and no razor will ever be used on his head."
Mine: 10 And she was in bitterness of soul, and prayed unto the LORD, and wept sore.
11 And she vowed a vow, and said, O LORD of hosts, if thou wilt indeed look on the affliction of thine handmaid, and remember me, and not forget thine handmaid, but wilt give unto thine handmaid a man child, then I will give him unto the LORD all the days of his life, and there shall no razor come upon his head.
Yours: As she kept on praying to the LORD, Eli observed her mouth. Hannah was praying in her heart, and her lips were moving but her voice was not heard. Eli thought she was drunk and said to her, "How long will you keep on getting drunk? Get rid of your wine."
Mine: 12 And it came to pass, as she continued praying before the LORD, that Eli marked her mouth. 13 Now Hannah, she spake in her heart; only her lips moved, but her voice was not heard: therefore Eli thought she had been drunken. 14 And Eli said unto her, How long wilt thou be drunken? put away thy wine from thee
Yours: "Not so, my lord," Hannah replied, "I am a woman who is deeply troubled. I have not been drinking wine or beer; I was pouring out my soul to the LORD. Do not take your servant for a wicked woman; I have been praying here out of my GREAT ANQUISH AND GRIEF. {Her spirit had finally been broken.}
Mine: 15 And Hannah answered and said, No, my lord, I am a woman of a sorrowful spirit: I have drunk neither wine nor strong drink, but have poured out my soul before the LORD.
16 Count not thine handmaid for a daughter of Belial: for out of the abundance of my complaint and grief have I spoken hitherto.
Yours: Eli answered, "Go in peace, and may the God ofIsrael grant you what you have asked of him."
Mine: 17 Then Eli answered and said, Go in peace: and the God of Israel grant thee thy petition that thou hast asked of him.
She said, "May your servant find favor in your eyes." Then she went her way and ate something, AND HER FACE WAS NO LONGER DOWNCAST. ( She finally had a breakthrough and gained victory over the enemy.)
This is my verse 18:
18 And she said, Let thine handmaid find grace in thy sight. So the woman went her way, and did eat, and her countenance was no more sad.
Perhaps you can help me. Can you show me the hebrew words in your Bible for this phrase that does not exisit in my verse 6 here: "YEAR AFTER YEAR IT WAS THE SAME - Peninnah would taunt Hannah as they went to the Tabernacle. Hannah would finally be reduced to tears and would not even eat."
Can you show me the Hebrew word in your Bible that under lies this word here in your Bible translated Chair because I assure you that this word is not the Hebrew word for Chair... it is the hebrew word for throne - a seat of dignity or power, a seat of authority and God intended us to know this! It is important to the text.
Show me too please the underlying Hebrew text for this line that also is not stated in the scriptures: "(She finally decided to stand up and be bold and really cry out to God in desperation.)"
Show me please the underlying Hebrew word for "Oh, Lord Almighty"? The word is tsaba' The LORD OF HOSTS... Do you think that God's choice to call himself in this scripture the Lord of Hosts and not the Lord God Almighty el Shadday was something to take in such a cavalier manner that you could substitute any of God's names you wished? In this text HE has called himself the LORD OF HOSTS.
Could you show me from your Bible the word for "troubled Spirit" there is one word in Hebrew for troubled and another that means hard hearted, stiff necked obstinate they are not the same. Hannah was not dealing with brokenness... she was dealing with anger and not sinning!!!!
Maybe you could give me the underlying Hebrew word for anguish?
**********************************************
Yours:
1 Samuel 2:1,2 My heart rejoices in the Lord. Oh, how the Lord has blessed me! No I have an answer for my enemies, as I delight IN YOUR DELIVERANCE. No one is holy like the Lord! There is no one besides you,. there is no Rock like our God.
Mine:
1 ¶ And Hannah prayed, and said, My heart rejoiceth in the LORD, mine horn is exalted in the LORD: my mouth is enlarged over mine enemies; because I rejoice in thy salvation.
This one bothers me I think the most... where is the "An Hannah Prayed"? Was that not important? Her horn... her hill, her position is exhalted IN the Lord... her mouth has been large over the enemy and she opened it or said not one ill word to Pininnah... as she rejoices? NO BECAUSE she... stood up to the devil... decided to get tough and pray bold prayers? NO BECAUSE NOT AS, BUT BECAUSE SHE REJOICES IN HIS SALVATION!!!!!!!
HisGrace: It is obvious to me that these details are un important to you. I do not understand that, but that is your business.
Obviously these details are very important to me. Our language is so different that Hebrew or Greek and I beleive that God chose Hebrew and Greek for the original text for HIS purpose because they reflected what he wanted understood. I believe when God brought the Bible to us in English, HE provided for us to have that underlying meaning. Men like Tyndale who gave their lives to bring us the scriptures in English translated directly from the Hebrew and Greek texts and eventually we got the KJV, I am so thankful to be able to click on any word and see what God meant when he said Eli sat on a seat. I find understanding in knowing that it was not just a chair, but a seat of honor and authority. I believe that God wanted me to know that; it tells me something about Hannah's actions.
So I am into the details. I find the majesty of God in the details. I could care less that some TV preacher thinks that when it says Hannah arose from the table after dinner that it means she Stood Up to the Devil. I am more interested in the details that are already there by the hand of God. I understand that arose is the word and our english idom Stood Up are two different things and have two different meanings and God did not use our English idiom Stood Up.
I think that is important that the "year after year" is attached to Elkanah's actions and not Pinannah's as your text attaches it. God attached it to Elkanah's actions for a reason.
So it seems that our difference is a difference in what is important to us. For what ever reasons I dont know we differ in this. I am into details you are not. That makes us different. Does that make one of us right and one of us wrong? God knows.
Here is what I know:
Matthew 4:4 But he answered and said, It is written, Man shall not live by bread alone, but by every word that proceedeth out of the mouth of God.
1 Corinthians 4:6 And these things, brethren, I have in a figure transferred to myself and to Apollos for your sakes; that ye might learn in us not to think of men above that which is written, that no one of you be puffed up for one against another.
John 14:23 Jesus answered and said unto him, If a man love me, he will keep my words: and my Father will love him, and we will come unto him, and make our abode with him.
Luke 21:33 Heaven and earth shall pass away: but my words shall not pass away.
I also know that one little tiny 4 word phrase out of Eve's mouth was enough to tell the devil that she did not know what God had said...
Genesis 3:3 But of the fruit of the tree which is in the midst of the garden, God hath said, Ye shall not eat of it, neither shall ye touch it, lest ye die.
One little four word phrase was enough of a foothold for the enemy to know that he could walk all over Eve and send the whole world into sin.
Details!
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Originally posted by helpforhomeschoolers:
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I really don't understand where you are coming from HFHS?
I am sorry. I hope you will forgive my lack in ability to explain better where I am coming from. I have nothing more to offer on this subject I am afraid.
You are a very intelligent woman and articulate very well.
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Originally posted by helpforhomeschoolers:
It is quite another to say that the scripture says that Hannah collapsed into tears and couldn't even eat anymore.
Samuel 1:6 But Peninnah made fun of Hannah because the Lord had closed her womb. YEAR AFTER YEAR IT WAS THE SAME - Peninnah would taunt Hannah as they went to the Tabernacle. Hannah would finally be reduced to tears and would not even eat.
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Another apparent twist by HisGrace " This went on year after year until Hannah said "Enough is enough." On one of their visits to Shiloh, she poured out her soul to God and decided not to be a victim anymore."
Samual 1:9-17 Once when they had finished eating and drinking in Shiloh, HANNAH STOOD UP.(She finally decided to stand up and be bold and really cry out to God in desperation.)
Now Eli the priest was sitting on a chair by the doorpost of the LORD's temple. In bitterness of soul Hannah wept much and prayed to the LORD. And she made a vow, saying, "O LORD Almighty, if you will only look upon your servant's misery and remember me, and not forget your servant but give her a son, then I will give him to the LORD for all the days of his life, and no razor will ever be used on his head."
As she kept on praying to the LORD, Eli observed her mouth. Hannah was praying in her heart, and her lips were moving but her voice was not heard. Eli thought she was drunk and said to her, "How long will you keep on getting drunk? Get rid of your wine."
"Not so, my lord," Hannah replied, "I am a woman who is deeply troubled. I have not been drinking wine or beer; I was pouring out my soul to the LORD. Do not take your servant for a wicked woman; I have been praying here out of my GREAT ANQUISH AND GRIEF. {Her spirit had finally been broken.}
Eli answered, "Go in peace, and may the God of Israel grant you what you have asked of him."
She said, "May your servant find favor in your eyes." Then she went her way and ate something, AND HER FACE WAS NO LONGER DOWNCAST. ( She finally had a breakthrough and gained victory over the enemy.)
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or to say that this scripture teaches this:We have to really get tough with the devil in defeating his craftiness.
1 Samuel 2:1,2 My heart rejoices in the Lord. Oh, how the Lord has blessed me! No I have an answer for my enemies, as I delight IN YOUR DELIVERANCE. No one is holy like the Lord! There is no one besides you,. there is no Rock like our God.
~Who knows what kind of agony and distress Hannah went through because of the stigma in that day attached to not being able to bare a child. Notice it says 'enemies.'
It is obvious that in Hannah's anguish, she was fighting the same enemy, through Peninnah, and maybe many others, as in Eph. 6:12 For we are not fighting against people made of flesh and blood, but against the evil rulers and authorities of the unseen world, against those mighty powers of darkness who rule this world, and against wicked spirits in the heavenly realms.
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I really don't understand where you are coming from HFHS?
I am sorry. I hope you will forgive my lack in ability to explain better where I am coming from. I have nothing more to offer on this subject I am afraid.
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I really don't understand where you are coming from HFHS? This scripture isn't just a history lesson; look what this story did for this woman with the three sons.
God told her in no uncertain terms that she had to stop praying nice gentle motherly prayers, probably something to the affect, "Oh yes they are basically good boys gone wrong." She had to face up to the fact that the devil had taken control of their lives and they were deeply into sin.
She learnt this lesson from reading about Hannah, and I can clearly see how it helped her prayers turn around the lives of her sons.
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Yes, I agree that is the beauty of the word; it is alive with the Spirit of God. One person can read the same scripture at 5 different times in his life and have it inspire him in 5 different ways.
It is one thing to say that I read the story of Hannah and was moved by God through my reading to pray more ferverently for my children and to do other things that I have not been doing to help them repent and return to walking with God.
This is a testimony of God working in your life!
It is quite another to say that the scripture says that Hannah collapsed into tears and couldn't even eat anymore.
This went on year after year until Hannah said "Enough is enough." On one of their visits to Shiloh, she poured out her soul to God and decided not to be a victim anymore.
or to say that this scripture teaches this:We have to really get tough with the devil in defeating his craftiness.
This is a twisting or manipulation of scripture to fit your message. It is not God's message in this scripture.
Main Entry: eis·ege·sis
Pronunciation: "I-s&-'jE-s&s, 'I-s&-"
Function: noun
Inflected Form(s): plural eis·ege·ses /-"sEz/
Etymology: Greek eis into (akin to Greek en in) + English exegesis -- more at IN
: the interpretation of a text (as of the Bible) by reading into it one's own ideas
I am sorry that you dont understand that. Perhaps one day. Perhaps not. That will be between you and God.
I mean you no offense. I felt led to speak what I have spoken on this subject. Maybe God desired for someone else to hear it. Maybe God just wanted my obedience. I dont know. I only know that I try to do what I feel he leads me to do when I feel he leads.
I felt led to give an exegesis of this scripture.
Main Entry: ex·e·ge·sis
Pronunciation: "ek-s&-'jE-s&s, 'ek-s&-"
Function: noun
Inflected Form(s): plural ex·e·ge·ses /-'jE-(")sEz/
Etymology: New Latin, from Greek exEgEsis, from exEgeisthai to explain, interpret, from ex- + hEgeisthai to lead -- more at SEEK
: EXPOSITION, EXPLANATION; especially : an explanation or critical interpretation of a text
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Five people can read one scripture and that scripture can inspire the five each in a different way.
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Originally posted by helpforhomeschoolers:
6 And her adversary also provoked her sore, for to make her fret, because the LORD had shut up her womb.
Notice here that this does not say Pininnah; it says her adversary (the one who troubles us opposes us) tired to hurt her? No... tried to make her mad... tried to anger her.
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HisGrace Responds:I don't know what version you used, because I looked up a number of versions of this scripture and 1 said rival, rival meaning being in competition with, or equal in quality or ability (Pininnah) Three other versions said Pininnah and two including the KJV said 'she' provoked her.
1 Samuel 1:7 (King James Version)
And as he did so year by year, when she went up to the house of the LORD, so she provoked her; therefore she wept, and did not eat.
I was using the KJV. It is generally the only version I use for study.
The statement that you quoted above was refering to verse six as you have also included in your quoting me.
1 Samuel 1:6 And her adversary also provoked her sore, for to make her fret, because the LORD had shut up her womb.
The point that I was making that it appears I did not make well as you did not seem to get it is this: GOD saw it fit in this verse to not insert the name Pininnah in this verse. GOD used the word :06869 hru tsarah tsaw-raw’ ;
This word is very interesting. This is the feminine form of it. The root is tsar which literally means to burn; raw means to roar. In speach, the word is used figuratively to express trouble or adversity. Used here transitively it is used to to mean a female rival, who is of course Pininnah, but the choice of the word tsar-raw rather than simply using Pininnah her gives us a glimpse of Biblical Spiritual truth and that is that we do not war with flesh and blood but with powers and principalities and spiritual wickedness and in this world the enemy of God's people is always the ADVERSARY- Satan. We are told that every jot and title in scripture is there with purpose. GOD is found in the details. This is a small detail with huge wisdom to be had if you pay attention to the details.
further we are told that her advisary "provoked her sore" The grammar of the word translated provoked tells us that this is an intentional and completed act ment to bring about anger
Then we see "to make her fret" "fret here is a form of that word "raw" which meant to roar... this one raw am means to thunder and the grammar attached to the word tells us that this provoking was meant to cause Hannah to utterly thunder with anger.
This is not a woman being made to feel sad or broken. This is a woman being provoked to fury and that is important if we are to see how Hannah responds and what the condition of her heart was.
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Hannah's adversay is not Pinannah, it is the devil who uses Pinannah. And the devil is trying to provoke her to anger.
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Now you are saying that it was Pininnah. Isn't that the way the devil always works. Hannah saw Pininnah in front of her, not someone in red tights and a pitchfork.
Yes, exactly and that is the point. It was Pinannah who spoke, but GOD used a word that would cause us to look deeper than Pininnah. The whole of the OT and the illustrations of the events in the lives of the Hebrew people are things shoen us in the flesh, but designed to teach us spiritual precept. The very lives of these people was a witness to the heathen around them of the Glory and Majesty and soverignity of GOD and when he gives it to us in scripture the same is true. GOD chose deliberately to use the word for adversary or adversity in this text for a purpose, else he would have just said again Pininnah as in the other passages.
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You folks are missing the whole point of what I was trying to say.
I think that I did get your point and that is exactly what led me to offer this exegesis of the story of Hannah.
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What does it matter who is a descendant of whom, how many pilgrimages they made or what wonderful bounties they had? I am talking about a hurting, barren woman who year after year had to listen to the taunts of her 'rival', until her spirit became very broken.
Respectfully HisGrace, it mattered enough TO GOD to place these details in the scripture. I know exactly what you are talking about. But what you are talking about is not what God is talking about in this scripture and that is the point. We should not manipulate the scripture to make our points; this is called as Drew has pointed out Eisegesis. We should read the scripture seeking to get GOD's point.
This details that you ask what does it matter about GOD put there because they show us HIS point.
First Samuel and this story in particular is full of contrasts and comparisons. We are told that Elkanah is from Ramah wich is at this time in the land given to Ephraim. Ramah is just outside of Jerusalem in Ephraim and from this place Samuel - the last judge is born and dedicated in Jerusalem. This is a contrast with the birth place of the GREAT Judge who is coming and who will be born in Bethlehem which is just out side of Jerusalem in Judah.
Further, God chose tells us that Elkanah is a Levite. But even more he is a Levite of the family of Kohath.
Kohath was the 2nd son of Levi. The Kohathites were the ones who formed the first of the three divisions of the Levites.
They were during the Wilderness wanderings those who were in charge of the most holy portion of the vessels of the tabernacle, including the ark.
In this text, he is contrasted with Eli as a father.
Eli is also a decendant of Kolhath. But Eli is a decendant of the 4th son of Aaron and has the office of High Priest.
Eli is the preist that is deposed by Solomon later and the priesthood is taken from his family and given to the Zaodak line. It is this line that remains faithful to David at the time of the division of the kingdom.
We see here these two men. Both of the same family- a family chosen by God to minister to the people. Eli, who has the position of High Priest a resposnibility that is both civil and religious, and yet he cannot even rule his own house as witnessed by his sons who are not a blessing to him and an honor to him as children should be, but are a disgrace.
He is contrast with Elkanah, who even though this is a time when men do as they see fit in their own eyes as opposed to the eyes of God this man goes every year to keep the feasts as God has ordained and he takes with him his two sons and when he is given Samuel he dedicates Samuel to the Lord as a Nazarite. Samuel would be eventually the Last Judge in Israel and the one to annoint David, from whom would come the Great Judge - Jesus.
Surely you can see the value of what God has made great detailed effort to show us in the text of first Samuel here.
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Finally, the scriptures say. 'She stood up' and refused to be a victim anymore and faught back with bold prayers and eventually was able to conceive and bare a child.
The scripture says that she stood up and went to pray. It does not say she fought any one or anything. It says she poured out her heart to God. What was in her heart? Anger-bitterness. For herself - because she was picked on? I dont think so. There is nothing in the text to show that Hannah felt hurt or broken. There is much to show that she sees herself as the handmaiden of GOD, worthy of a child... not just a child but a man child and she asks God to give her one vowing to give him back to God. This anger and bitterness and grief that Hannah feels is not for herself. Hannah desires only to have what is hers as a Godly woman to give to her husband and he God. It is her calling as a godly daughter of Israel to bring forth children and Hannah knows this... so she prays remember me Jehovah God.
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The woman who identified with this story on TV had two teenage sons who were into drugs and her oldest one was dealing and transporting drugs from Manhatten to Rhode Island. She and her preacher husband also had a 10-yr old. who was being influence by his older brothers.
She said she was saying nice 'mother' prayers, but that didn't work, so after reading the story about Hannah she stood up to the devil and started saying very bold prayers and taking aggresive measures to turn her sons around.
Finally they did a complete turnaround and her oldest son, with the help of the next son, now have a powerful ministry helping the youth in NYC.
This is a beautiful story of God's redemptive power. Raise up a Child in the way he should go! But no matter how wonderful the story - the message that Hannah had enough, decided not to be a victim and fought the devil are not in first Samuel, and when you chose to view Hannah in this light you miss what GOD did say about Hannah. If you had told me that this woman saw Eli in the story in first Samuel contrast with Elkanah and decided to take agressive measures to turn her sons around, I would have said praise God. That would not be twisting the scripture to fit your experience. You speak as though God hears those that pray boldly more than those who pray humbly and meekly. God hears our prayers period and when they are in line with HIS will he answers them and this is to us blessing. Sometimes we can cry out to God and he does not seem to answer and we think I have not asked boldly enough and I just need to keep asking till I get my answer and the answer comes as quail so much quail that it kills you because you were not happy with the manna God was supplying!!!!!!!
God gives us the desires of our heart and we ought take care what those desires are and that they are in line with God's desires. This woman's desires for the redemption and restoration of her children certainly were in line with God's desires. But the message that we need to stand up and fight the devil is not the message here in the story of Hannah. We are to resist the devil and he will flee. Which is exactly what Hannah did. Hannah did not smite back at Pininnah; Hannah did not take upon her self the belief that she was worthless or cursed. All these are things that Pininnah's pervoking were designed to cause, but Hannah went to God and prayed. Hannah said remember me God. This is consistant with scripture:
Philippians 4:6 Be careful for nothing; but in every thing by prayer and supplication with thanksgiving let your requests be made known unto God.
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Hannah does not go to the priest and ask for anything. Hannah goes to God
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I didn't say that Hannah went to Eli, notice that I said. "He observed her praying."
Eli a priest in Shiloh observed her praying and blessed her by saying in I Samuel 1,17 "Go in peace, and may the God of Israel grant you what you have asked of him."
No I did not think that you did say it. The Eisegesis of the text that blessed your socks off did not even note this point, it did not see this point.
Hannah, if she had believed herself to be cursed, which is what was believed of woman who were barren, then Hannah if she were broken hearted and feeling cursed, would have gone to the Priest Eli. She did not do that. This is significant because it tells us about Hannah's heart and her understanding and her relationship with GOD.
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However, later please note -
Verse 25 says " When they had slaughtered the bull, they brought the boy to Eli"
Yes, this was the thing that she had promised she would do. She brought him to the priest to be raised for the service in the tabernacle.
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Originally posted by BORN AGAIN:
were you able to get the socks back on? it is cold in Canada. ![[mad2]](graemlins/mad2.gif)
Actually the weather has been like a yo-yo here -it was raining earlier in the week. Right now it is -15c, which I guess is around 5f, and is going to balmy -9 this afternoon, which is quite bearable for us as long as it isn't too windy.
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I do not watch much TV because the Lord has me busy in His vineyard and after a good day's wages in His vineyard, I come home and what is TV that I should look at that, instead of reading about HIm Word for Word in the Bible?
(sometimes I do watch a little TV, Is my name now Samuel? No, it isn't, but ideally it should be. ![[Prayer]](graemlins/prayer.gif) )BORN AGAIN
We get a couple of religious/Christian TV channels up here, but I don't get TBN, many would be happy to know. Yes, you can't beat focusing on The Word to get proper insight and discernment.
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dear sister HisGrace, you write quote:
Sometimes I think the devil tries to keep us from Christian TV, because he knows that there is much rich Biblical truth to be gleaned from many of these programmes.
On the other hand, the Lord has me busy in His vineyard and I come home a good day's pay in His vineyard; what good is TV then, when I can read about Him Word for Word? quote:
There is a great Canadian Christian programme, with some terrific guests, which airs in the morning and then is re-broadcasted twice at night. I was having a hard time sleeping last night, and switched it on in the middle of the night and it blessed the socks off of me.
were you able to get the socks back on? it is cold in Canada.
I do not watch much TV because the Lord has me busy in His vineyard and after a good day's wages in His vineyard, I come home and what is TV that I should look at that, instead of reading about HIm Word for Word in the Bible?
(sometimes I do watch a little TV, Is my name now Samuel? No, it isn't, but ideally it should be. )
BORN AGAIN
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Originally posted by helpforhomeschoolers:
6 And her adversary also provoked her sore, for to make her fret, because the LORD had shut up her womb.
Notice here that this does not say Pininnah; it says her adversary (the one who troubles us opposes us) tired to hurt her? No... tried to make her mad... tried to anger her.
I don't know what version you used, because I looked up a number of versions of this scripture and 1 said rival, rival meaning being in competition with, or equal in quality or ability (Pininnah) Three other versions said Pininnah and two including the KJV said 'she' provoked her.
1 Samuel 1:7 (King James Version)
And as he did so year by year, when she went up to the house of the LORD, so she provoked her; therefore she wept, and did not eat.
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Hannah's adversay is not Pinannah, it is the devil who uses Pinannah. And the devil is trying to provoke her to anger.
Now you are saying that it was Pininnah. Isn't that the way the devil always works. Hannah saw Pininnah in front of her, not someone in red tights and a pitchfork.
You folks are missing the whole point of what I was trying to say. What does it matter who is a descendant of whom, how many pilgrimages they made or what wonderful bounties they had? I am talking about a hurting, barren woman who year after year had to listen to the taunts of her 'rival', until her spirit became very broken.
Finally, the scriptures say. 'She stood up' and refused to be a victim anymore and faught back with bold prayers and eventually was able to conceive and bare a child.
The woman who identified with this story on TV had two teenage sons who were into drugs and her oldest one was dealing and transporting drugs from Manhatten to Rhode Island. She and her preacher husband also had a 10-yr old. who was being influence by his older brothers.
She said she was saying nice 'mother' prayers, but that didn't work, so after reading the story about Hannah she stood up to the devil and started saying very bold prayers and taking aggresive measures to turn her sons around.
Finally they did a complete turnaround and her oldest son, with the help of the next son, now have a powerful ministry helping the youth in NYC.
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Hannah does not go to the priest and ask for anything. Hannah goes to God
I didn't say that Hannah went to Eli, notice that I said. "He observed her praying."
Eli a priest in Shiloh observed her praying and blessed her by saying in I Samuel 1,17 "Go in peace, and may the God of Israel grant you what you have asked of him."
However, later please note -
Verse 25 says " When they had slaughtered the bull, they brought the boy to Eli"
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Amen Linda!!!
A tremendous teaching from the Word. What a glorious contrast as Samuel ministered faithfully before the Lord, and the two sons of Eli abused and stole the portions from the faithful, before the Lord. Not only did the Lord answer Hannah's prayer, but then she was blessed in her faithfulness and dedication with other sons and daughters.
1 Samuel 2:
12 Now the sons of Eli were sons of Belial; they knew not the LORD. 13 And the priests' custom with the people was, that, when any man offered sacrifice, the priest's servant came, while the flesh was in seething, with a fleshhook of three teeth in his hand; 14 And he struck it into the pan, or kettle, or caldron, or pot; all that the fleshhook brought up the priest took for himself. So they did in Shiloh unto all the Israelites that came thither. 15 Also before they burnt the fat, the priest's servant came, and said to the man that sacrificed, Give flesh to roast for the priest; for he will not have sodden flesh of thee, but raw. 16 And if any man said unto him, Let them not fail to burn the fat presently, and then take as much as thy soul desireth; then he would answer him, Nay; but thou shalt give it me now: and if not, I will take it by force. 17 Wherefore the sin of the young men was very great before the LORD: for men abhorred the offering of the LORD.
18 But Samuel ministered before the LORD, being a child, girded with a linen ephod. 19 Moreover his mother made him a little coat, and brought it to him from year to year, when she came up with her husband to offer the yearly sacrifice. 20 And Eli blessed Elkanah and his wife, and said, The LORD give thee seed of this woman for the loan which is lent to the LORD. And they went unto their own home. 21 And the LORD visited Hannah, so that she conceived, and bare three sons and two daughters. And the child Samuel grew before the LORD.
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A Servant of Christ,
Drew
1 Tim. 3:
16: And without controversy great is the mystery of godliness: God was manifest in the flesh..
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helpforhomeschoolers
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Respectfully, his grace it does not line up in a number of ways and it is a perfect example of the difference of Eisegesis and Exegegesis.
Nice thought but this scripture doesnt support it.
I saw this a the other day and began to post on it and I had to work and did not get back. I am glad that Drew addressed it; Let me show you how it does not test out:
This part particularly the bolded part:
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This went on year after year until Hannah said "Enough is enough." On one of their visits to Shiloh, she poured out her soul to God and decided not to be a victim anymore.
Eli a priest in Shiloh observed her praying and blessed her by saying in I Samuel 1,17 "Go in peace, and may the God of Israel grant you what you have asked of him."
Now you know that I am all for deciding to not be a victim. I have spoken of that many times; but this text does not support these statements made about Hanna. Further, if you believe them you miss what is said about Hannah... let me show you:
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1 ¶ Now there was a certain man of Ramathaimzophim, of mount Ephraim, and his name was Elkanah, the son of Jeroham, the son of Elihu, the son of Tohu, the son of Zuph, an Ephrathite:
2 And he had two wives; the name of the one was Hannah, and the name of the other Peninnah: and Peninnah had children, but Hannah had no children.
We should not miss here that Elkanah is a decendat of the 2nd son of Levi. This is near the end of time of the judges. In fact, Samuel will be the last judge.
This is important because at this time we see a Hebrew people that do not live according to the word. The scripture says that every man did as was right in his own eyes.
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3 And this man went up out of his city yearly to worship and to sacrifice unto the LORD of hosts in Shiloh. And the two sons of Eli, Hophni and Phinehas, the priests of the LORD, were there.
This is one of the pilgrimages; Elkanah is faithful - we know that because he does make the trek as he ought to one of the festivals and he is contrasted here with the sons of Eli, who we know are anything but priestly from the scripture.
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4 And when the time was that Elkanah offered, he gave to Peninnah his wife, and to all her sons and her daughters, portions:
This is a peace offering that is being made. After a peace offering is made, the rest is eaten - this offereing is an offering of thanksgiving for the bounties that God has given and that is important to note here as we look at the next verse:
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5 But unto Hannah he gave a worthy portion; for he loved Hannah: but the LORD had shut up her womb.
When Elkahah divies up the bounties of which he has just given a portion first to God in thanksgiving, he then divides it among his family and to Hannah he gives a worthy portion. The word worthy portion is really the Hebrew word for another and the Hebrew word for face. Two faced portion... this means that he gives her the best portion of the animal... the portion that has both fat and lean. It is the choice portion the one she is worthy of... the most tasty.. like the filet minon. Fat gives tenderness and flavor to the meat and Hannah's portion has 2 faces both lean and fat. It is choice.
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6 And her adversary also provoked her sore, for to make her fret, because the LORD had shut up her womb.
Notice here that this does not say Pininnah; it says her adversary (the one who troubles us opposes us) tired to hurt her? No... tried to make her mad... tried to anger her. Hannah's adversay is not Pinannah, it is the devil who uses Pinannah. And the devil is trying to provoke her to anger. Because it is in anger that the devil gets GOD to be against us.
It is important to know that barreness was among the Hebrews considered to be a curse from God. But Hannah was a GOdly woman and not cursed!
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7 And as he did so year by year, when she went up to the house of the LORD, so she provoked her; therefore she wept, and did not eat.
We are told that every year Elkanah does the same thing. Every year this woman that appears to be cursed of God with her barreness gets the choice of the offering of thanksgiving from her husband. He loves her no matter that she is barren and he shows not just her that but all who witness the portion that he gives to Hannah.
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8 Then said Elkanah her husband to her, Hannah, why weepest thou? and why eatest thou not? and why is thy heart grieved? am not I better to thee than ten sons?
Still Hannah weeps. A lot of people interject here that hannah is so grieved she cannot eat; but that is not what the scripture says; the scripture says that she does not eat. Not that Elkahah asks two questions not one. Elkanah does not just ask why is she so upset with the words of this woman, but also why she does not eat. Then he asks her a question... am I not better to you than if you had been the mother of 10 sons? Elkanah is showing the fact that he does not care what any thinks he loves Hannah and he does not treat her as if she were accursed; he treats her as if she had blessed him not just with two sons as Pininnah has, but he blesses her and claims for all to see his love and his thanksgiving (for this is a peace offering)for her is as great as if she had bore him 10 sons.
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9 ¶ So Hannah rose up after they had eaten in Shiloh, and after they had drunk. Now Eli the priest sat upon a seat by a post of the temple of the LORD.
Eli is the High Priest and he sits on the seat of authority by the post in the temple- this is a picture of the one that is intercessor for the Hebrew people with God.
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10 And she was in bitterness of soul, and prayed unto the LORD, and wept sore.
11 And she vowed a vow, and said, O LORD of hosts, if thou wilt indeed look on the affliction of thine handmaid, and remember me, and not forget thine handmaid, but wilt give unto thine handmaid a man child, then I will give him unto the LORD all the days of his life, and there shall no razor come upon his head.
12 And it came to pass, as she continued praying before the LORD, that Eli marked her mouth.
Now this is where we shall see that your tv preacher's statements about Hannah do not ring true... do not stand against the scriptural truth and worse cause you to miss this about Hannah.
Hannah does not go to the priest and ask for anything. Hannah goes to God. This tells us that Hannah knows that she is not cursed. Hannah knows that she is not in need of some forgiveness of sin. Hannah is grieved in her soul and she weeps to GOD.
Hannah makes a vow to God. Hannah makes a Nazerite Vow of her son to God. This shows that Hannah does not pray for her self... for her misery as being without child. This is not about Hannah's need to be a mother. She proves that by vowing to give the Son to God as a Nazarite - this is a life long vow for the child... but there is more. It is a vow that she cannot herself make by Jewish custom it must be made by the husband. So not only does Hannah not pray for her own reasons of needing to be a mother, and not only did she know that it was not a high Priest that she needed, but she also demonstrates here her rightness with her husband. She knows that her husband would honor her vow and make it his own. Additionally, Hannah is praying for something that the people need despirately right now and that is children committed to the LORD GOD by their parents for these are evil times in Israel and every man is doing as they see fit in their own eyes.
There is nothing in this text to show that Hannah every felt victimized; in fact, there is much to show that she did not feel victimized. Her grief was most likely for her husband who loved her beyond measure and who was dishonored every time someone spoke of her barreness and also witnessed his abundant love for her anyway.
Hannah says look on my affliction - my barreness and remember me. Remember that I am a godly woman not an accursed woman - remember ME.... says Hannah.
This is further substantiated in the verse after the next verse:
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13 Now Hannah, she spake in her heart; only her lips moved, but her voice was not heard: therefore Eli thought she had been drunken.
14 And Eli said unto her, How long wilt thou be drunken? put away thy wine from thee.
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15 And Hannah answered and said, No, my lord, I am a woman of a sorrowful spirit: I have drunk neither wine nor strong drink, but have poured out my soul before the LORD.
Hannah says I am a woman of hard spirit.
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16 Count not thine handmaid for a daughter of Belial: for out of the abundance of my complaint and grief have I spoken hitherto.
Hannah says dont you look at me like I am a daughter worthlessness; I was speaking out of my meditation and great grief.
Hannah has thought long and hard about this situation and she knows who she is and she knows that she is not barren because God has cursed her and she does not ask for a child for herself.
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17 Then Eli answered and said, Go in peace: and the God of Israel grant thee thy petition that thou hast asked of him.18 And she said, Let thine handmaid find grace in thy sight.
Eli who is the High priest and intercesser between God and the Hebrews, makes intercession for Hannah.
So the woman went her way, and did eat, and her countenance was no more sad.
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19 ¶ And they rose up in the morning early, and worshipped before the LORD, and returned, and came to their house to Ramah: and Elkanah knew Hannah his wife; and the LORD remembered her.
The Lord remembered Hannah. Remembered that she is a Goldy woman and blessed her with child which is a sign that she is blessed of God to their culture and not just her, but that her husband also is blessed of God.
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20 Wherefore it came to pass, when the time was come about after Hannah had conceived, that she bare a son, and called his name Samuel, saying, Because I have asked him of the LORD.
21 And the man Elkanah, and all his house, went up to offer unto the LORD the yearly sacrifice, and his vow.
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22 But Hannah went not up; for she said unto her husband, I will not go up until the child be weaned, and then I will bring him, that he may appear before the LORD, and there abide for ever.
23 And Elkanah her husband said unto her, Do what seemeth thee good; tarry until thou have weaned him; only the LORD establish his word.
Note here: Elkannah gives his approval of the Nazarite Vow that Hannah made.
So the woman abode, and gave her son **** until she weaned him. 24 And when she had weaned him, she took him up with her, with three bullocks, and one ephah of flour, and a bottle of wine, and brought him unto the house of the LORD in Shiloh: and the child was young.
25 And they slew a bullock, and brought the child to Eli.
26 And she said, Oh my lord, as thy soul liveth, my lord, I am the woman that stood by thee here, praying unto the LORD.
27 For this child I prayed; and the LORD hath given me my petition which I asked of him:
28 Therefore also I have lent him to the LORD; as long as he liveth he shall be lent to the LORD. And he worshipped the LORD there.
1 ¶ And Hannah prayed, and said, My heart rejoiceth in the LORD, mine horn is exalted in the LORD: my mouth is enlarged over mine enemies; because I rejoice in thy salvation.
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~Notice in the story that even though the Lord closed Hannah's womb, that didn't mean that her prayers were never answered.
Just because God closes doors in our life, that doesn't mean that what we desire is not going to happen. We have to really get tough with the devil in defeating his craftiness, even through a broken spirit sometimes, so that we are purified enough to realize that our answers only come through God's power and He alone should receive the glory.
This is a nice warm fuzzy story that the tv preacher paints; it feels good and people like to hear stories like this... but it is not the story of Hannah.
Hannah didnt need to be purified as evidenced that she did not go to the High Priest for this.
Hannah did not have a broken spirit. Hannah had a hard spirit; she did not want to be a cause of shame to her husband who loved her.
Hannah was not praying for her desire to have a child she was not praying cause she was all beaten up and hurt because Pinannah ridiculed her; she was not praying because she longed to be a mother.
I see that Hannah was a woman of great courage and forsight; she was a woman of honor; she was a woman in relationship with God. She cared about how she appeared to the community. She cared about her contribution to their community.
This story is not about defeating the devil's craftiness. It is not about just keep praying till you get what you want. It is not about standing up and saying enough is enough I am not going to be a victim. It is not about being purified through trial... thought that is certainly something that can happen and does happen. That is not what this story is about.
This story is about love - agape love that loves the one loved more than self. It is about relationship with God. It is about committment; it is about faithfulness;
It was the adversary that said that Hannah's womb had been shut... but the truth was that God had ordained Samuel to be the last judge and the one who would annoint David. God's timing to was perfect and he chose a Godly and unselfish woman committed to her husband and her people to be his mother.
Posts: 4684 | From: Southern Black Hills of South Dakota | Registered: Jun 2002
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HisGrace
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Thanks Joyce - that's really sweet! May God richly bless you with renewed health and strength ![[hug]](graemlins/hug.gif)
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