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Author
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Topic: Terri Schiavo
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WhiteEagle
Advanced Member
Member # 3728
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posted
oops! I meant to add to the above post about asking the deceased saints to pray:
The reasoning is since these "deceased saints" are alive in Christ, to ask them to pray for one, is the same as asking our brothers and sisters in Christ to pray for us, in the natural world.
In other words they REALLY practice the belief that those in Christ do not DIE, but are just in another realm.
Posts: 1392 | From: Maine | Registered: Aug 2004
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WhiteEagle
Advanced Member
Member # 3728
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posted
quote:
Originally posted by SoftTouch:
quote:
Originally posted by WhiteEagle:
Isn't it wonderful that even those on this board may make it to heaven IN SPITE of their doctrines that may be false, and they just don't know it.
Ummm? Could you clarify what you mean by this? I don't want to misunderstand what you're trying to say. Thanks!
The older I get, the more I see that no one or no church denomination has all the doctrine of God, or understands them correctly, nor can we.
The basics of the gospel is what all believers CAN agree on. Jesus Christ born of a virgin, put to death by Pilate, and arose the 3rd day. His blood is shead for the sins of the world, and belief in Jesus Christ and repentance is necessary for redemption of one's sins and eternal life.
While I am NOT a Catholic nor have I even attended any Catholic mass; I have read and spoken with Catholics about their beliefs and the reasonings behind certain practices that we Protestants "consider" to be apostasy.
1) Catholics sometimes will pray to deceased loved ones, who they believe have gone to heaven. They will ask the deceased loved one to pray for them from heaven.
The reasoning for this is found from Jesus own words; when he spoke to the Pharisees and told them, that God, is a God of the Living, and not the dead, and that they erred in thinking that Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob were dead, as they live in eternity and God is the God of the Living, as God is Life.
So Catholics believe that their loved ones are "alive" and this is why they pray to them and ask for their prayers.
I don't agree with this idea, but on the other hand, I can't find fault with it, as long as they believe Jesus is the sole advocate for them.
I think we need to use caution in judging another servant of God, and find out their rationale for what they do and believe before calling it apostasy.
Posts: 1392 | From: Maine | Registered: Aug 2004
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Forever His
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Member # 25
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posted
I cannot tell you how "deeply" this news has troubled me. I cannot fathom how this tragedy can occur in our so called "enlightened" age... Has America turned it's back on God???
Help4homeschoolers wrote:
I read that they will not even allow ice to moisten her bleeding dry lips. That is inhumane. I think someone in Florida should have the judge and the husband arrested for abuse and attempted murder.
My heart is saddened and I believe that angels who accel in strength... weep at the sight. Surely tragedy must lie at our doorsteps... and we have struck the only one who can help in the face... for... as in that you have done it to the "LEAST" of these... you have done it to me.
now at least her husband doesn't have to live in open sin... he can now get married and pretend that all is well...
I weep...
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helpforhomeschoolers
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Member # 15
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posted
GrandmaJo: Can you please share with us what you feel is an appropriate way to deal with the practices of the Roman Church that do not agree with scripture? Do we ignore them? Do we figure they do not matter? Do we pretend they do not exist? What is the appropriate way in your opinion? I see that you feel strongly that many of us do not deal with them appropriately, but what is appropriate in your understanding?
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SoftTouch
Advanced Member
Member # 2316
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posted
quote:
Originally posted by WhiteEagle:
Isn't it wonderful that even those on this board may make it to heaven IN SPITE of their doctrines that may be false, and they just don't know it.
Ummm? Could you clarify what you mean by this? I don't want to misunderstand what you're trying to say. Thanks!
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Psalm 119:104Through thy precepts I get understanding: therefore I hate every false way. 105Thy word is a lamp unto my feet, and a light unto my path.
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WhiteEagle
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Member # 3728
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posted
quote:
Originally posted by SoftTouch:
GramaJo
I don't even know why I'm trying to explain this AGAIN, but here we go... One More Time....
NO ONE is Judging PEOPLE (Catholic - Charismatic - Baptist - whatever). What is being spoken Against IS False Doctrine! Not People.
YES there WILL BE Catholics in Heaven! There Will Be people from the majority of denominations (I can't say all because I don't know what 'all' would be comprised of). Of this I have No Doubt. Regarding the Catholics, Those who see the Error of the teachings of the Vatican and trust SOLEY in the Finished Work of Jesus on the cross and His resurrection Will Be In Heaven. Would that keep me from going in? Of Course Not! I REJOICE at those who see through the False Doctrine and place their Faith Squarely and Soley in Jesus and not sacraments, Mary, or anything else!
People Are Not Being Judged... Teaching/Doctrine IS.
Isn't it wonderful that even those on this board may make it to heaven IN SPITE of their doctrines that may be false, and they just don't know it.
Posts: 1392 | From: Maine | Registered: Aug 2004
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SoftTouch
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Member # 2316
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posted
GramaJo
I don't even know why I'm trying to explain this AGAIN, but here we go... One More Time....
NO ONE is Judging PEOPLE (Catholic - Charismatic - Baptist - whatever). What is being spoken Against IS False Doctrine! Not People.
YES there WILL BE Catholics in Heaven! There Will Be people from the majority of denominations (I can't say all because I don't know what 'all' would be comprised of). Of this I have No Doubt. Regarding the Catholics, Those who see the Error of the teachings of the Vatican and trust SOLEY in the Finished Work of Jesus on the cross and His resurrection Will Be In Heaven. Would that keep me from going in? Of Course Not! I REJOICE at those who see through the False Doctrine and place their Faith Squarely and Soley in Jesus and not sacraments, Mary, or anything else!
People Are Not Being Judged... Teaching/Doctrine IS.
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Psalm 119:104Through thy precepts I get understanding: therefore I hate every false way. 105Thy word is a lamp unto my feet, and a light unto my path.
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Gramajo320
unregistered
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posted
This is for only those of you who are so totally negative toward any charismatic catholics even though they are born again believers and also against any catholic whatsoever!
Do not even attempt to say I'm trying to teach any false doctrine because that's not true either!!
To each of you who have either quoted me or addressed me personally about my postings I only have this to say to you - I have no doubts in my mind whatsoever that you will forever be ever so negative toward any catholic whether they be charismatic catholics who are born again believers although you refuse to believe that either or RCC catholics and you will always and forever jump at the chance to post any negative thoughts you can come up with no matter what! So the following is a very hypothetical question for
you: Suppose for a moment that you've died and you find yourself standing before God. In His infinite love and wisdom God tells you that there are catholics in heaven. Are you going to refuse to enter heaven because there are catholics there and there are people of all denominations all of whom had repented and accepted Jesus Christ. Are you going to say no thanks God but I don't want to be around all of them! Just something for you to think about! Personally I'm more than weary of all of your negativity and your trying to justify it in any way you can think of so I bid you all Au Revoir in this thread!
Read John 3:16 over and over again!!
In Christ's love,
Gramajo32
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hardcore
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posted
"It is rather interesting to note that as christians we judge a person by their denomination or religious belief."
As Christians, we should not be judging another person. Their doctrine, however, is up for scrutiny.
"This one brother said, If I left the church ( who is a religious educator), who will tell them about Jesus."
Anyone staying in the catholic church who doesn't believe its teachings is not only being dishonest before our Lord, but also to themselves and their fellow church-goers. How about standing up for Jesus and telling the truth? Seems that would be the better course, as opposed to becoming a hypocrite and keeping silent.
I feel for this brother and any others in the situation of feeling "stuck" in the church. It can't be easy. But standing up for the Truth is the right choice. Think how God could use this brother to lead others out of the church and into the light!
"If all true believers left the church, who would witness to them."
Leaving the church and telling others why is the best witness they can have.
"I believe if God wanted this lady, Terri to live, He would have allowed it. There is nothing that God cann't do. Life is granted by God and God chooses the date we die."
You are so right. I wonder how many Christians prayed for her to live, as opposed to praying for God's will in the situation?
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Eduardo Grequi
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Member # 3984
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posted
It is rather interesting to note that as christians we judge a person by their denomination or religious belief. I personally know many Catholics who are born again, who do not worship Mary or venerate the Pope. This one brother said, If I left the church ( who is a religious educator), who will tell them about Jesus. To date the Methodist, Baptist, Anabaptist, Menonites, Lutherns etc.. all have questionable secondary beliefs. Have you ever sat in a course of Christian Religion. The Roman Catholic Church have many secondary issues that are tradition and not scriptural as well as other christian denominations. A generation of time can be considered 20 years, the doctors call this a generation gap. How much can be tradition and how much remains primary to the belief in Christ is called Religious Dogma. When I attended the Catholic Church with my wife many catholics say they are not Christians. I asked each one why. The replies were generally this- I believe in the church first, the Pope is our Holy Father and what ever he declares is so, the pope when he speaks is the same as God himself speaking. However there are numerous catholics who do not hold to this. If all true believers left the church, who would witness to them. My belief in Christ alone is enough for salvation. Some christians belive that you need to be baptize by water to be saved. The theif on the cross wasn't therefore it is not necesary. What is pure christianity? Pure christianity is salvation through the blood of the Lord Jesus Christ alone. Pure Christianity is God reaching down to an adulterous world through His Son (John 3:16). For by grace are ye saved thru faith. When you transverse this globe you come in contact with people who adds to the plain salvation message or take a way from it and that is totally,utterly contrary to the word of God. You can read it in Latin, German, Spanish, Hebrew, Yiddish, Arabic etc.. It doesn't matter the language you speak- YOU must be born again. Baptism is an identification of what Jesus has already done to the believer once that believer did Romans 10:9-10.
I believe if God wanted this lady, Terri to live, He would have allowed it. There is nothing that God cann't do. Life is granted by God and God chooses the date we die.
Posts: 771 | From: Belvidere, IL | Registered: Oct 2004
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hardcore
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Member # 4492
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posted
"Seems simple enough to me?"
You would think.
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SoftTouch
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Member # 2316
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posted
quote:
Originally posted by hardcore:
Some people just will not face the truth Soft Touch. Maddening, isn't it?
Yeah, sometimes it can be! I don't understand why it's so difficult to see the difference between what is written in the Bible and what is being taught by the RCC (and other apostate churches). If they're preaching a Different Gospel, or a Different Jesus, then they are NOT representatives of our Lord and Savior.
Salvation through "Works" or "Sacraments" or "Mary" or anything other then the Finished Work of Jesus at his Resurrection is a Different Gospel. To say that HIS Death, Resurrection, and acceptance of the covering of HIS Blood is not sufficient unto Salvation is to preach a Different Jesus. Seems simple enough to me?
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Psalm 119:104Through thy precepts I get understanding: therefore I hate every false way. 105Thy word is a lamp unto my feet, and a light unto my path.
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hardcore
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posted
Some people just will not face the truth Soft Touch. Maddening, isn't it?
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SoftTouch
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Member # 2316
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posted
quote:
Originally posted by Gramajo320:
Yashway , there is the very distinct possibility the man just did not take the time to explain exactly and more thoroughly what he meant.
Here's what was said by the man again:
quote:
Originally posted by yahsway:
okay, it 8:45pm and I am watching fox news with Shepherd Smith. he is talking to a man who claims to be a charasmatic catholic. he just said that everyone, be you buddist,jewish, christian or whatever were all going to heaven.
He said Jesus died for the whole world and since he did all were going to heaven.
How could he possibly explain this any other way then what's said here? What he's saying is that Universal Salvation is what Jesus died for and it doesn't matter if you believe in Jesus or not... This is a Lie from the Pit of Hell! I don't know how any Born Again Believer could begin to defend it?
John 3:16 For God so loved the world he gave His only Son, so that everyone who believes in Him may not perish but may have eternal life.
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Psalm 119:104Through thy precepts I get understanding: therefore I hate every false way. 105Thy word is a lamp unto my feet, and a light unto my path.
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hardcore
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Member # 4492
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posted
My question then becomes:
Do they follow Jesus Christ alone? Or Jesus Christ plus Mary, plus the pope, plus heretical catholic teaching?
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Gramajo320
unregistered
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posted
Yashway , there is the very distinct possibility the man just did not take the time to explain exactly and more thoroughly what he meant. A lot of people have difficulty doing that. I do know charismatic born again believers and they became born again believers by repenting of their sins, accepting Jesus Christ as their Lord and Saviour, and following Jesus Christ just the same as any other born again believer has done.
John 3:16 For God so loved the world He gave His only Son, so that everyone who believes in Him may not perish but may have eternal life.
In Christ's love,
Gramajo320
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hardcore
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Member # 4492
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posted
Gramajo ...
"The charismatic catholics who have repented of their sins and accepted Jesus Christ as their Lord and Saviour and follow Jesus Christ are known as born again believers just the same as any one else of any other religion or denomination who repented of their sins and accepted Jesus Christ as their Lord and Saviour and follow Jesus Christ. Thankfully our Heavenly Father knows what is in each person's heart and He loves them!"
I wholeheartedly agree with you!
"I've certainly not stated at any time whatsoever that any one becomes a born again believer just by going to church nor do I think so! I don't know where that idea comes from!"
I didn't quite mean that, but it did seem like you were assuming that Terri (and other catholics) were saved because they grew up in the catholic church. Chalk it up to my misinterpretation and failed communication skills. Please forgive.
"As for a website where you can read about the doctrinal differences between the charismatic catholics and the RCC I shall find out for you and let you know as soon as I know."
Thanks! I can research it myself also, I just thought you might be familiar with a reputable site.
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yahsway
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Member # 3738
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posted
Amen Gramajo, I agree, but the teaching that man was teaching is false.
Posts: 1238 | From: Tennessee | Registered: Aug 2004
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Ripp
unregistered
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posted
quote:
Originally posted by Gramajo320:
Charismatic catholics who repent of their sins and accept Jesus Christ into their hearts and follow Jesus Christ are born again believers just the same as any one else who repents of their sins and accepts Jesus Christ as their Lord and Saviour and follows Jesus Christ are born again believers!
n Christ's love,
Gramajo320
Absolutely! ![[Smile]](smile.gif)
God bless. ![[Bible]](graemlins/bible.gif) ![[Cross]](graemlins/cross.gif) ![[Prayer]](graemlins/prayer.gif)
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Gramajo320
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posted
Charismatic catholics who repent of their sins and accept Jesus Christ into their hearts and follow Jesus Christ are born again believers just the same as any one else who repents of their sins and accepts Jesus Christ as their Lord and Saviour and follows Jesus Christ are born again believers!
John 3:16 For God so loved the world he gave His only Son, so that everyone who believes in Him may not perish but may have eternal life.
In Christ's love,
Gramajo320
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Ripp
unregistered
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posted
quote:
Originally posted by yahsway:
okay, it 8:45pm and I am watching fox news with Shepherd Smith. he is talking to a man who claims to be a charasmatic catholic. he just said that everyone, be you buddist,jewish, christian or whatever were all going to heaven.
He said Jesus died for the whole world and since he did all were going to heaven. does anyone else hear what this man is saying? He says it does not matter what religon you practice cause Jesus paid it all and He loves you and your going to heaven.
Noe correct me if im wrong, but I thought scripture said only those who are born again and who profess Jesus as the truth not buddah!
You are correct. Universal salvation has been gaining ground as a false teaching. It's disturbing but it's going to continue to grow as well as all the other false teachings. It's a time of confusion for a lot of people. I imagine a lot of people just tune out because there is so much noise. ![[Frown]](frown.gif)
God bless.
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yahsway
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Member # 3738
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posted
okay, it 8:45pm and I am watching fox news with Shepherd Smith. he is talking to a man who claims to be a charasmatic catholic. he just said that everyone, be you buddist,jewish, christian or whatever were all going to heaven.
He said Jesus died for the whole world and since he did all were going to heaven. does anyone else hear what this man is saying? He says it does not matter what religon you practice cause Jesus paid it all and He loves you and your going to heaven.
Noe correct me if im wrong, but I thought scripture said only those who are born again and who profess Jesus as the truth not buddah!
Posts: 1238 | From: Tennessee | Registered: Aug 2004
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Ripp
unregistered
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posted
Ahh, found it. ![[Wink]](wink.gif)
Mohler wary of Protestant elevation of Mary in Time article
quote:
The article describes a recent trend within Protestant scholarship and church life of elevating Mary as a model of Christian devotion who is deserving of more attention.
Mohler acknowledges that evangelicals must look to Scripture as they consider Mary. But he cautions against singling her out as a mediator between God and man or an elevated model of Christian devotion.
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Protestants’ renewed interest in Mary is further evidenced by cover stories in both Christianity Today and Christian Century, the Time article says.
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The Time article relates stories of several Protestant churches that have devoted sermons and Bible studies to Mary, such as Westminster Presbyterian Church in Xenia, Ohio, where Pastor Brian Maguire teaches classes on Mary and plans to bring Mary into his Good Friday sermon.
Yikes, scary stuff. ![[Eek!]](eek.gif)
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Gramajo320
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posted
Hardcore,
The charismatic catholics who have repented of their sins and accepted Jesus Christ as their Lord and Saviour and follow Jesus Christ are known as born again believers just the same as any one else of any other religion or denomination who repented of their sins and accepted Jesus Christ as their Lord and Saviour and follow Jesus Christ. Thankfully our Heavenly Father knows what is in each person's heart and He loves them!
I've certainly not stated at any time whatsoever that any one becomes a born again believer just by going to church nor do I think so! I don't know where that idea comes from!
As for a website where you can read about the doctrinal differences between the charismatic catholics and the RCC I shall find out for you and let you know as soon as I know.
In Christ's love,
Gramajo320
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Ripp
unregistered
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posted
Watching the praying last night gave me indegestion. Mother this, Mary that. Aye karumba! What about Jesus!! Oh well, God and Jesus were talked about on many occasions so I guess we can take the bad with the good eh?
You guys are right though, the mother Mary doctrine is disturbing. That doctrine is starting to infiltrate the mainline Christian churches here in America as well. I posted an article about it on my site a month or so ago. I'd grab it if I knew how far back it was hehe.
Oh well, at least God is being mentioned with the Popes' passing. Maybe many will come to realize the need for a Savior out of all of this. Only time will tell.
God bless.
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TEXASGRANDMA
Advanced Member
Member # 847
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posted
When it is all said and done, it is going to be more important what your relationship is with Christ than what Church you sit in on Sunday morning.
Can a Catholic go to hell? you bet. Just like a Baptist, or Church of Christ, or an Assembly of God person who does not have a personal relationship with Jesus as their Savior and Lord.
Whose job is it to decide who is and who ain't?
Why Jesus of course. He sure doesn't need me to tell who is right and who ain't.
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I am sure glad my English teacher from 8th grade ain't here to see this. She made me write I will not say ain't all the time. The last time was 500 times. As you can see, it worked real well. ![[roll on floor]](graemlins/6.gif)
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Luk 21:28 And when these things begin to come to pass, then look up, and lift up your heads; for your redemption draweth nigh.
http://www.indieheaven.com/artists/mm (son-in-law)http://www.myspace.com/mireles
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hardcore
Advanced Member
Member # 4492
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posted
Gramajo ...
I am not negative about catholics, I am negative about their doctrine. There is a difference.
You are right. It is important to focus on Jesus Christ - not Mary, and not the pope.
I also agree that our Lord is the only one who knows individual hearts. I have never implied nor stated otherwise. I commented on catholic doctrine, not any individual. Both of Caretaker's most recent posts give excellent examples of serious doctrinal issues within catholicism. Surely you can see this and are not suggesting that this doctrine is acceptable. It is not.
I fully admit that I am not familiar with the differences between charismatic catholics and other catholics. Regardless, I don't think you can flatly state or assume that charismatic catholics are born again believers any more than you could make that statement about any denomination. Salvation is unto each individual and has nothing to do with which church they attend.
Can you explain the difference between the charismatic catholics and the traditional RCC? Or point me to a website that does? You have peaked my curiosity.
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Gramajo320
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posted
Hardcore,
There is a world of difference between the charismatic catholics and the RCC catholics a fact that people who are so negative about catholics refuse to recognize. Charismatic catholics are born again believer just the same as you, I, or anyone else is! Anyway our Heavenly Father is the ONLY ONE who knows the hearts of every single person living on this earth, a fact that everyone should always remember!
Now it's important to just focus on Jesus Christ!
In Christ's love,
Gramajo320
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Caretaker
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Member # 36
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posted
Amen Sister Hardcore!
The Believer is justified solely and totally through faith in Christ alone.
The Roman Catholic Church teaches that one cannot be justified solely by faith alone in Christ. The Roman Catholic Church teaches that one receives justification through the sacraments of the Roman Catholic Church, and that they are necessary for salvation.
Canons of the Council of Trent:
CANON 9: "If any one saith, that by faith alone the impious is justified; in such wise as to mean, that nothing else is required to co-operate in order to the obtaining the grace of Justification, and that it is not in any way necessary, that he be prepared and disposed by the movement of his own will; let him be anathema."
"Therefore by the deeds of the law there shall no flesh be justified in his sight: for by the law is the knowledge of sin" (Rom. 3:20).
B. "Being justified freely by his grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus" (Rom. 3:24).
C. "Therefore we conclude that a man is justified by faith without the deeds of the law" (Rom. 3:28).
D. "For what saith the scripture? Abraham believed God, and it was counted unto him for righteousness" (Rom. 4:3).
E. "Therefore being justified by faith, we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ" (Rom. 5:1).
F. "For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God" (Eph. 2:8).
G. "Not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to his mercy he saved us, by the washing of regeneration, and renewing of the Holy Ghost" (Titus 3:5).
2. CANON 12: "If any one shall say that justifying faith is nothing else than confidence in the divine mercy pardoning sins for Christ's sake, or that it is that confidence alone by which we are justified ... let him be accursed"
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"But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name" John 1:12).
A. "Therefore we conclude that a man is justified by faith without the deeds of the law" (Rom. 3:28).
B. "For what saith the scripture? Abraham believed God, and it was counted unto him for righteousness" (Rom. 4:3).
C. "Wherefore he is able also to save them to the uttermost that come unto God by him, seeing he ever liveth to make intercession for them. For such an high priest became us, who is holy, harmless, undefiled, separate from sinners, and made higher than the heavens; 27Who needeth not daily, as those high priests, to offer up sacrifice, first for his own sins, and then for the people’s: for this he did once, when he offered up himself" (Heb. 7:25-27).
D. For the which cause I also suffer these things: nevertheless I am not ashamed: for I know whom I have believed, and am persuaded that he is able to keep that which I have committed unto him against that day" (2 Tim. 1:12).
3. Canon 14: "If any one saith, that man is truly absolved from his sins and justified, because that he assuredly believed himself absolved and justified; or, that no one is truly justified but he who believes himself justified; and that, by this faith alone, absolution and justification are effected; let him be anathema."
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"For what saith the scripture? Abraham believed God, and it was counted unto him for righteousness" (Rom. 4:3).
A. "Therefore being justified by faith, we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ" (Rom. 5:1).
4. Canon 23: "lf any one saith, that a man once justified can sin no more, nor lose grace, and that therefore he that falls and sins was never truly justified; or, on the other hand, that he is able, during his whole life, to avoid all sins, even those that are venial,- except by a special privilege from God, as the Church holds in regard of the Blessed Virgin; let him be anathema."
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"He that believeth on the Son hath everlasting life: and he that believeth not the Son shall not see life; but the wrath of God abideth on him" (John 3:36).
A. "And this is the will of him that sent me, that every one which seeth the Son, and believeth on him, may have everlasting life: and I will raise him up at the last day" (John 6:40).
B. "And I give unto them eternal life; and they shall never perish, neither shall any man pluck them out of my hand" (John 10:28).
C. "That as sin hath reigned unto death, even so might grace reign through righteousness unto eternal life by Jesus Christ our Lord" (Rom. 5:21).
D. "They went out from us, but they were not of us; for if they had been of us, they would no doubt have continued with us: but they went out, that they might be made manifest that they were not all of us" (1 John 2:19).
E. "These things have I written unto you that believe on the name of the Son of God; that ye may know that ye have eternal life, and that ye may believe on the name of the Son of God" (1 John 5:13).
•
Canon 24: "If any one saith, that the justice received is not preserved and also increased before God through good works; but that the said works are merely the fruits and signs of Justification obtained, but not a cause of the increase thereof; let him be anathema."
. "O foolish Galatians, who hath bewitched you, that ye should not obey the truth, before whose eyes Jesus Christ hath been evidently set forth, crucified among you? 2This only would I learn of you, Received ye the Spirit by the works of the law, or by the hearing of faith? 3Are ye so foolish? having begun in the Spirit, are ye now made perfect by the flesh?" (Gal. 3:1-3).
A. "Stand fast therefore in the liberty wherewith Christ hath made us free, and be not entangled again with the yoke of bondage. 2Behold, I Paul say unto you, that if ye be circumcised, Christ shall profit you nothing. 3For I testify again to every man that is circumcised, that he is a debtor to do the whole law" (Gal. 5:1-3).
•
Canon 30: "If any one saith, that, after the grace of Justification has been received, to every penitent sinner the guilt is remitted, and the debt of eternal punishment is blotted out in such wise, that there remains not any debt of temporal punishment to be discharged either in this world, or in the next in Purgatory, before the entrance to the kingdom of heaven can be opened (to him); let him be anathema."
. "Therefore being justified by faith, we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ" (Rom. 5:1).
A. "And you, being dead in your sins and the uncircumcision of your flesh, hath he quickened together with him, having forgiven you all trespasses; 14Blotting out the handwriting of ordinances that was against us, which was contrary to us, and took it out of the way, nailing it to his cross" (Col. 2:13-14).
• Canon 33: "If any one saith, that, by the Catholic doctrine touching Justification, by this holy Synod inset forth in this present decree, the glory of God, or the merits of our Lord Jesus Christ are in any way derogated from, and not rather that the truth of our faith, and the glory in fine of God and of Jesus Christ are rendered (more) illustrious; let him be anathema.
. This council declares that if anyone disagrees with it, they are damned.
Catholic Cathechism:
1129 The Church affirms that for believers the sacraments of the New Covenant are necessary for salvation .51 "Sacramental grace" is the grace of the Holy Spirit, given by Christ and proper to each sacrament. The Spirit heals and transforms those who receive him by conforming them to the Son of God. The fruit of the sacramental life is that the Spirit of adoption makes the faithful partakers in the divine nature52 by uniting them in a living union with the only Son, the Savior.
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A Servant of Christ,
Drew
1 Tim. 3:
16: And without controversy great is the mystery of godliness: God was manifest in the flesh..
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hardcore
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Caretaker - Amen!
Thank you for posting that article. It was concise and to the point.
I know it's not a popular stance, but we either stand against false teaching or we don't. Catholicism has escaped under the radar for far too long because of the fear of offending.
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hardcore
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I'm not saying, nor did I, that there aren't saved catholics. Millions upon millions as you say? Maybe. Maybe not. I pray that you are right.
However, just because someone is catholic (including Terri), does not necessarily mean they are a born again believer. That seemed to be, and still does seem to be, what you are implying. Catholicism does NOT equal salvation.
I can't speak for others, but I don't believe I'm being negative about catholics. I would never judge an individual's heart, but catholic doctrine is another issue, and I would judge an individual's doctrine - against scripture!
Catholicism is guilty of serious doctrinal error, idol worship, changing scripture, ignoring scripture and false teaching to name a few. Is it not reasonable to assume then, that there might be many within the church who are being led into a false sense of security regarding their salvation?
I personally know believers who came out of the catholic church and will testify to the fact that they were not saved until they left. I also know many un-saved catholics.
I'm sorry gramajo. I'm not trying to be negative, just honest. Defending a corrupt religious institution doesn't benefit anyone, especially the lost, whether they be in the catholic church or not.
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Caretaker
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http://www.justforcatholics.org/a21.htm
Are Catholics Christian?
Question Are Catholics Christians? If not, why? This is not a negative question. I desire to honestly know if Catholics are considered to be part of the Christian faith.
Answer This is a most important question anybody can ask. Am I a Christian? Or am I a Christian in name only? Do I have a living relationship with Christ?
Well then, who has the right to call himself Christian? Like the Jews of old, people still fool themselves in thinking that they are right with God because of some ritual (like circumcision or baptism) or because of their heritage ("I was born into a Christian family and attend a Christian church").
According to the Bible, a true Christian is chosen by God before the foundation of the world, redeemed and forgiven by the blood of Christ, illuminated by the Spirit, knows and obeys the truth of the Gospel. A Christian is someone who trusts in Christ for his salvation, and gives all praise to God for His grace. (Please read Ephesians 1:3-13).
Does a Roman Catholic fit this description? Superficially he does. He believes in Christ and speaks about the grace of God. But if he follows the official teaching of the Roman Catholic Church, regretfully I must say that he does not really believe in Christ nor does he know the grace of God. Please allow me to explain.
The Gospel teaches that "a man is justified by faith without the deeds of the law" (Romans 3:28). God regards a person just and righteous who trusts wholeheartedly in Jesus, and who does not attempt to win God's favour by his imperfect obedience of the Law. Sadly, Roman theology has rejected God's way of salvation. To faith, Rome adds a set of deeds (many of which are human inventions) and curses anyone who dares to completely trust in Christ alone for salvation. 'If anyone says that the faith that justifies is nothing else but trust in the divine mercy, which pardons sins because of Christ, or that it is that trust alone by which we are justified, let him be anathema.' (Council of Trent, session 6, cannon 12).
We firmly believe that our sins are pardoned because of the sacrifice of Christ alone. Rome would have us perform acts of penance and suffer in purgatory to expiate our sins. The Bible proclaims Christ, the Priest who offered himself once for all. Rome would have us apply to her priests who daily offer their sacrifices on the altar. The Bible proclaims Christ as the only Mediator, Rome would have us apply to other mediators, like Mary, the saints and the church.
Again, we assert that we are "justified freely by His grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus" (Romans 3:24). The Bible clearly defines what grace is: "to him who works, the wages are not counted as grace but as debt" (Romans 4:4) Grace is unmerited favour, as opposed to the merit of works. Rome outwardly teaches that we are justified by grace. However the "grace" of Catholicism is a very strange species. The Catholic Church states that "we can then merit for ourselves...the graces needed...for the attainment of eternal life" (Catechism of the Catholic Church, 2010). To merit grace is a contradiction in terms. Rome would not allow you to receive the gift of salvation with a grateful heart, but would have you work like a slave to merit it.
We are forced to conclude that the message of Rome is a different gospel. It is a false gospel. I say this with much sadness and concern for the multitudes of Catholics who blindly follow this false system. I must warn every Catholic that Christ is of no avail to you unless you relinquish any confidence in yourself and your works, and in every other creature. Faith must be in Christ - alone!
Having said that, I gladly add the following caveat. There may be some nominal Catholics who, either out of ignorance or willful rejection of Catholic doctrine, truly trust in Christ alone for their salvation. They are Christians and really belong to God.
The book of Revelation describes a deceptive and false religious system named Babylon. It is not my intention here to discuss the exact nature of this Babylon - the principle remains the same. Some Christians are trapped inside this deceptive system and God gives them a specific command: "Come out of her, my people, that ye be not partakers of her sins, and that ye receive not of her plagues" (Revelation 18:4). Thank God that even in Babylon, God has His people. If you are a Christian entrapped in the false religious system of Rome, hear God's calling and come out of her. You will experience liberty and life like never before.
Copyright Dr Joe Mizzi, 2004. Permission given by author to copy this article without changes. < BACK TO Q&A
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A Servant of Christ,
Drew
1 Tim. 3:
16: And without controversy great is the mystery of godliness: God was manifest in the flesh..
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Gramajo320
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Hardcore,
There most assuredly are millions upon millions of born again believers who are catholics. I firmly believe that Terri was a born again believer!
I don't understand why some people choose to be so negative about catholics!
In Christ's love,
Gramajo320
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hardcore
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I hope that she was a believer as well.
I guess I'm having a hard time understanding what you're (Gramajo320) basing your opinion on - the opinion that she was a believer. You said yourself you had no confirmation, so we can't assume one way or the other.
Being raised catholic, going to catholic schools and attending catholic services, do not qualify one for heaven; not by a long shot. I'm certainly not saying that there aren't saved catholics, but unfortunately, there are a lot of them that aren't.
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Gramajo320
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The news report did not specify if it was the RCC or a charismatic catholic church. We all pray that she was a born again believer and I believe she was.
In Christ's love,
Gramajo320
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Caretaker
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It is very sad but so indicative of the evil which is infiltrating across our land. I hope that Terri had a personal relationship with our Lord Jesus Christ, and not just trusting in having the priest bestow Him upon her at baptism, and receiving justification solely through the sacraments of the RCC. It is receiving Christ into our hearts of our own volition which is salvation.
It is so very sad and I weep for her family who were denied access: to care for her with love, to be with her when she took her last breath, to gather as she is laid to rest, to even place flowers on her grave. This situation is anathema.
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A Servant of Christ,
Drew
1 Tim. 3:
16: And without controversy great is the mystery of godliness: God was manifest in the flesh..
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Gramajo320
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Hardcore,
In answer to your question I do not know of any confirmation one way or the other.
It was reported in a news report that Terri was raised as a catholic and attended catholic schools
and she attended the catholic church. There are many born again catholic believers and I do believe that the Lord had His own perfect plan for Terri and that she is now with the Lord.
In Christ's love,
Gramajo320
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hardcore
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Gramajo320,
In an earlier post on this thread, you said:
"We can all be very thankful that Terri is now with the Lord and is in peace and rest."
Do we know this for sure? I have been wondering for a while if she was a believer, but could never find confirmation one way or another.
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Gramajo320
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Ripp,
Amen! He could have relinquished control over Terri and it's sad that he did not do so for he has not acted in her best interests at all.
We continue to pray for her family.
In Christ's love,
Gramajo320
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Ripp
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Any rights related to Terry he had by law should have been revoked the second he became an adulterer. JMHO of course.
God bless.
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Gramajo320
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Yes it is definitely difficult to believe that Michael Schiavo should have control over Terri Schiavo's body and the the arrangements after her autopsy especially in view of his living with another woman and has been for several years. They have two children. I just read a news story on favorminded's site and according to the report the judge ruled that Michael has to reveal where Terri's ashes are to be buried but the judge did not rule when Michael has to reveal where the location is so it seems Michael will not do so until after the burial. Michael seems as though he wants total control and will continue to do so which is really sad.
We continue to pray for Terri's family.
In Christ's love,
Gramajo320
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TEXASGRANDMA
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It is hard to believe he has control over her body when he is living with another woman and has two children by this woman.
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Luk 21:28 And when these things begin to come to pass, then look up, and lift up your heads; for your redemption draweth nigh.
http://www.indieheaven.com/artists/mm (son-in-law)http://www.myspace.com/mireles
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Cricket
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So sad. I just read in my local paper that Michael is not allowing Terri's immediate family access to her funeral. I guess she is being cremated and her ashes scattered. Regardless of the legal battle these are still her parents and siblings. They should be allowed access.
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What would life be if we had no courage to attempt anything?
---Vincent Van Gogh
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Gramajo320
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Yes I agree, Cricket. Everyone should have their wishes put in writing and it should be very specific.
As for Michael he has lived with his girl friend for several years and they have two children. That's why Terri's parents asked him to please let them take Terri to their home and care for her for the rest of her life rather than Terri being in hospice. However he refused.
We can all be very thankful that Terri is now with the Lord and is in peace and rest.
We all prayed for her and her family and our prayers continue to be for her family in this time of their loss.
In Christ's love,
Gramajo320
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Cricket
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This whole case is sickening. No one ever thinks they will be in the predicament that Terri was in. Unfortunately, we have all learned a lesson at Terri's expense. Please put in writing what your wishes are if you are ever in this position. Do you want to be fed through a tube? Do you want to be kept on a ventillator? Also, who do you want in charge of you if this ever happens.
What would it have hurt for Michael to let Terri's parents take charge? Nothing - except he wouldn't have access to the money. Also, he isn't "free" - he is tied down to Terri. I believe he is openly living with another woman if the accounts are true.
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What would life be if we had no courage to attempt anything?
---Vincent Van Gogh
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yahsway
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Thanks GrmaJo, I too will continue to pray for all the family and also pray for Michael, but some of you will need to pray for me cause this does make me soooooo angry. Shalom
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Gramajo320
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Yashway,
Yes this is quite true. If you go to favorminded.com and click on the yahoo news story about Terri a page will come up that has two links for you to click on and you can read the news stories for yourself.
Yes it's very true that if Michael continues to persist in having Terri's ashes buried at an undisclosed location then her family cannot pay their respects. Michael is showing a very controlling and heartless nature - as to why no one really knows other than our Heavenly Father and Michael.
We continue to pray for Terri's family.
In Christ's love,
Gramajo320
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yahsway
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If thats true about an undisclosed location of Terris remains so that not even her parents could go pay respects, then all I can say is this man is heartless.
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Gramajo320
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Michael has already planned that Terri's ashes will be buried at an undisclosed location in PA and her parents will not be told of that location because Michael is doesn't want any media to show up.
Where is his heart, love, compassion, empathy for anyone else other than himself. It's indeed a sickning situation.
Terri's family are planning to have services held without Terri's being there.
We pray for Terri's family and others.
In Christ's love,
Gramajo320
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Gramajo320
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Michael Schiavo will have to repent of all his sins, ask for mercy and forgiveness, accept Jesus Christ into his heart and then follow Jesus Christ the same as all non-believers who become born again believers.
In Christ's love,
Gramajo320
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