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Topic: Tithe
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TEXASGRANDMA
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Member # 847
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posted
Chuck
We have been going to our Church for three years. There is a rip in the carpet on the stage, but our Pastor said he would rather our money support missionaries then buy new carpet. Our Church supports many missionaries, unwed moms, and the men and women in the Navy.
Our Church here in Washington and in Texas gives everyone a copy of the finaces so that we can see where the money goes. Our Pastor is not rich and our Church is not a mansion. Our Church is a place for hurting people to come for comfort and for Christians to be fed from the Word of God.
Why I think tithes is important is because if we don't give a set amount we find ourselves giving less and less (at least most of us) In September you have school supplies and school clothes so you would be tempted to skip God that month. One month the car tags are due, you skip that month. Soon you only give occassionaly. The Pastor can't be supported with casual givers like that. The lights would soon be turned off with a Church filled with people like that too.
betty
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Luk 21:28 And when these things begin to come to pass, then look up, and lift up your heads; for your redemption draweth nigh.
http://www.indieheaven.com/artists/mm (son-in-law)http://www.myspace.com/mireles
Posts: 4985 | From: Washington State | Registered: Jan 2003
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Bandit
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posted
quote:
Originally posted by TheGreatSouthLand:
We attend a church where our minister is very big on tithing. He quotes Malachi 3:10 (Bring the whole tithe into the house....Test me and see...) My question is this. Do we as New Testement believers need to tithe. When Christ died on the cross he paid for, and abolished all the laws that the Children of Israel were living under. Tithing is one of these. Should we not now be people who GIVE because we want to give, rather than TITHE because we have to. I realise that it is God who supplies all our needs. And it is because of Him that we have food on our tables and clothes on our backs. Shouldn't we give out of love for Him for all that he has done for us. Can we expect people to tithe of they can't put enough food on the table for their families (I've been there) Telling people that they should tithe, and that if they don't they are robbing God is more of a guilt trip thing and a law rather than something that is done out of the heart, no matter how big the offering is.
Anyway. What do others think
Thanks
Sorry to hear about your predicament, GreatSouthLand. The requirement to tithe as a part of the New Covenant is one of the most common false doctrines being promoted in churches today. I am sorry this pastor has so little spiritual insight. Such a use of Malachi shows a real lack of understanding. Look, do yourself a favor, get yourself out from under such ignorant teaching. This guy may be well meaning, but life is too short and too precious to spend listening to someone so spiritually blind. You may not realize this (nor probably does he) but he is leading you back into bondage; he is corrupting the way of Christ! The reason this guy has to go all the way back to Malachi is because the New Testament doesn’t support him! So he snips a bit out of Malachi - quite out of context - and tells you how you must give! What a crock! I have heard this false teaching way too often. Please, do yourself a favor, dump this guy and his church. The real thing (real spiritual truth) is worth fighting for. Remember, by dumping him and his false teaching, you are not dumping Christ, but in reality, you are making and taking a stand for the real Jesus Christ!
Sincerely,
Bandit
P.S. Who knows what other false teachings this guy may be pushing!
Posts: 113 | From: Melbourne, Florida | Registered: Jul 2004
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HE LIVES
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posted
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Brothers and sisters we need both to support the expansion of God’s Word both monetarily and physically.
adv. christian,
There's a big difference between supporting and tithing. Supporting is from the heart through giving, and the so called tithing of today is taught to be mandatory as law.
There's no doubt that tithing is scriptural because it's found in the scriptures, but not the tithing being taught by pastors today. the tithing taught by pastors today is man made, and is not even recognizable when compared to the tithing of scripture.
We should support the word of God, and the body of Christ through the leading of the Spirit of God, and not be the traditions of man.
I will say this, if you are able to give 10% or even more to the Lord then I say praise the Lord! but don't let man tell you that your robbing God if you don't. Give generously as you are able from your heart. You shared the scriptures in 2 Corinthians chapter 9, so Read 2 Corinthians 9:7 and it will tell you how to give.
Your brother in Christ,
Chuck
Posts: 182 | From: Missouri | Registered: Aug 2005
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HE LIVES
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quote:
People want their Pastor to be there for them but they are too cheap to pay their tithes. Do you not leave a tip for the waitress at a resturant?
God gives us our money, should we not at least give Him back a tenth of it? Until I read in the Bible do NOT pay your tithes, then I will feel free to do so.
I never said that you shouldn't give 10% if that's what you want to do, I just said that the bible doesn't ask you to give 10% of your money, so If you do it's your choice. If you want to give 50% then that wonderful, or 5% is great too. You give as you are able to give to the Lord.
You act as if I don't think we should give, of course we should give, I do. Some of the people give much more than 10% and some less than 10%. I'm just saying that scripture doesn't teach the tithe that most pastors are preaching.
I don't think that there's anything wrong with helping your pastor, but how much of your tithe do you think goes to landscaping, new carpet, song books, and such? Do you think that's God's will?
I have preached the word in my area for about 4 years now and I will never charge the body of Christ for the word of God. There were a few times at first that I was given an offering after I preached the word of God, but after checking the scriptures I will never again take money for preaching the word of God. I will tell the assembly to give it to those in need in the area, and if I am ever the person in need then I know that the Lord will provide.
Your brother in Christ,
Chuck
Posts: 182 | From: Missouri | Registered: Aug 2005
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TEXASGRANDMA
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posted
Chuck
I am not going to argue with you abou this. I do know there are verses in the Bible that say that a Preacher is worth his hire and not to muzzle the animals from eating.
This said, I do not belive it is a sin to tithe.
If I tithed and I don't have to, God will probably thank me for supporting the Church in His name. Jesus says a cup of water giving in His Name will be rewarded.
If I don't tithe and it is a sin then I will be in trouble.
People want their Pastor to be there for them but they are too cheap to pay their tithes. Do you not leave a tip for the waitress at a resturant?
God gives us our money, should we not at least give Him back a tenth of it? Until I read in the Bible do NOT pay your tithes, then I will feel free to do so.
Rose,
most preachers are not on TV. My Pastor lives in a modest home. He pays tithes, himself. My sister was a Preacher's wife. They did without many times. I am talking about times when they were Pastors at a very poor Church and she did not even have the money for toothpaste. My mom mailed her some (she never even told us but we found our when we were at her house) I know paying your tithes to support the Church is important.
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My Church home provides a place to teach me, guide me, support me spiritually. Hubby and I gladly pay our tithes.
well I am off. Irioncally we got to go to the bank to get some cash, because hubby likes to pay his tithes in cash.
Have a blessed day.
betty
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Luk 21:28 And when these things begin to come to pass, then look up, and lift up your heads; for your redemption draweth nigh.
http://www.indieheaven.com/artists/mm (son-in-law)http://www.myspace.com/mireles
Posts: 4985 | From: Washington State | Registered: Jan 2003
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HE LIVES
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TEXASGRANDMA,
I just want to share a couple things with you, and then I'm done with the subject because I do not want to argue about this. You posted this.
quote:
Mat 23:23Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye pay tithe of mint and anise and cummin, and have omitted the weightier [matters] of the law, judgment, mercy, and faith: these ought ye to have done, and not to leave the other undone.
Notice that this is Jesus’ words and He says “these ought ye to have done.
Did you notice what Jesus said that they tithed?
Mint, anise, and cummin all spices and herbs, do you know why? Because only livestock and crops where tithed. The seeds of the earth and the livestock that lived on the seeds of the earth.
The only time that people turned the tithe into money was when they had a long trip to take to make the offering. Then they could sell their crops or livestock and take the money on their long trip, but when they got where they were going they bought food again for the offering.
The only people that tithed were farmers and shepherds, it was only people that got increase from the earth.
Stone masons didn't tith, and carpenters didn't tith. It was only farmers and shepherds and those that were growing crops.
Here's the scripture that everyone speaks of "Malachi 3:10 (Bring the whole tithe into the storehouse.... The word storehouse comes from the word garner which is like a silo that held grain, not coins.
You said how your tithe helped all of the programs at your church, I don't doubt that one bit, but don't you think that the people that give 20% help too, what about those who give even more than 30% I bet they're helping too just like the people that give 1%, or 5%. It's not your tithe that allows these things to happen, it's the giving heart of the body of Christ each one makes it happen not just the ones that give 10%.
You said before that it don't say in the bible that it's a sin to tithe, and your right. I don't think a person is sinning when they tithe anymore than a person that gives 15%, or 5%, but I think the person that tells them if they don't give 10% that they are robbing God is very much in the wrong.
Before anyone says anything about Abraham tithing his spoils of war to Melchizedek, this was a voluntary giving and only happened once, and it was not from his income it was from war. There's no record in scripture of him ever tithing again.
As I close this post I just want to say to TEXASGRANDMA that I love you and I'm not trying to argue with you, I'm just trying to show what the bible teaches about it. As far as giving goes, if you want to tithe then go for it, but don't let a man tell you that if you don't then your robbing God because that's not what the bible is teaching in Malachi 3:10 (Bring the whole tithe into the storehouse....
By this logic, if you gave 20% you wouldn't be tithing either because the tithe is the tenth part.
I love you and do not want to argue with you. I can only share with you what the bible teaches, after that you have to make your own choices.
Your brother in Christ,
Chuck
Posts: 182 | From: Missouri | Registered: Aug 2005
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Itty-Bitty Girl
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posted
quote:
Originally posted by TEXASGRANDMA:
Rose,
There is a difference in a local Pastor and a televegalist. Tithing supports a local Church.
Surely you are not suggest that we no longer have local Churches.
betty
Oh. Okay, with that said, what do you do if the televangelist is your local pastor?
Posts: 1051 | Registered: Apr 2005
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KnowHim
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quote:
Originally posted by TEXASGRANDMA:
The Widow's Two Mites
(Luke 21:1-4)
Notice that Jesus did not take the money and give it back to the widow and tell her that she was to poor to give.
Ask most Pastors and they will tell you that those who are some of the most faithful in giving are those who have the least.
When the widow gave the two mites, Jesus was still alive and they were still under the old covenant.
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We are to give to God not to Pastors that beg for money.
James 1:27 (KJV)
Pure religion and undefiled before God and the Father is this, To visit the fatherless and widows in their affliction, and to keep himself unspotted from the world.
Matthew 23:14 (KJV)
Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye devour widows’ houses, and for a pretence make long prayer: therefore ye shall receive the greater damnation.
(for ye devour widows’ houses) – this means they take their last penny and spend it on their own wants.
The story of the widow’s mite is about the widow’s heart and not trying to say we are to give to the Pharisees! We are to give to God. We are to give everything to God and when we do we shall be His. But giving to the religious machine is not giving to God. We all will answer to God about when and where we give. And saying I gave to the Church will not cut it when you don’t even know what they do with the money. Most of the money given to Churches go to the administration of the church building and staff. I would say about 95% or more. So they don’t have much left to do with what God actually wanted them to do in the first place.
We are not suppose to go out and create mega social clubs so we have a nice place to play basketball. We are to SEEK the lost and take care of each other. I would rather give my neighbor money to help them when they are in need anytime then pay to support a social club. Who would put my neighbor through the wringer if they ask for help and when they got it, it could be to late and they would most likely not get much anyway. Plus they would get humiliated because their name would be mentioned for the next several Sunday morning because the clubs leader want all to know they gave someone something. Not much but something.
The reason that we are to give is to help other believers that need help. Not so we can build a mega churches and hire paid clergy to run the buildings. God no longer lives in a temple but in the born-again believers. That is where he wants us to invest now, not in mega buildings. I am sure that there will be many so called pastors standing before Jesus and being ask why the widows and fatherless went hungry and had no home because they fleeced the flock for their own agenda’s and forgot what God said to do.
I agree that we are to give everything we have to God (but NOT to the religious machine that calls it’s self the church) only the true born-again believers in Jesus Christ are the Church and they do not just meet in one building and separate themselves from the other members. They are more concerned about helping others both to come to know Jesus and meeting their needs then they are about begging for money every other Sunday for more, more money so they can build a basketball court.
I am so tired of all the fleecing of the flock so (so called) pastors can meet their ego’s and build their personally empires.
May we give all we have to God and help our brothers and sisters in Christ and stop wasting all that money on the religious machine.
May we give to help missionaries so they don’t have to go around begging for money so they can go into the mission field.
I suggest selling some of the buildings and sending missionaries out and take care of all their needs. Then may be they can think about what they are doing and not worry about raising the money to GO.
Posts: 3276 | From: Charlestown, IN | Registered: Jun 2002
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Adv.Christian
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Hello all; ![[wave3]](graemlins/18.gif)
There has often been much dissension amongst the body of Christ over the “legality” of tithing I believe it is a case of straining to swallow a Nat while swallowing down a Camel.
Rather you choose to call it tithing, offering, giving, supporting or any other title you decide to place upon this it is scriptural to support the church. I am fully aware of the verbiage and the differences between such things as tithing and offerings definitions (for example the statement of offerings can only come after meeting the 10% tithe requirement, or that sacrifices refere to animal sin sacrifices, etc...)
What ever the term we choose to call it; the question is shall we suprt God’s Word? Yes there are certainly ways to support God’s Word with out tithing to an established church however the established church rather we agree with them or not have served God’s purpose for far longer then you or I will ever hope to stand on this earth to reach out to the lost.
I am all too fully aware of the fact that there are those who use the cloak of being men of God in effort to make personal gain and I truly regret that this exists but unfortunately we will deal with this until Christ’s return. The question is will we support God’s Word?
At the risk of making some mad, I have heard this topic discussed to do both justify the not giving to the local church and even justifying abstinence from attending a local church of any kind. Brothers and sisters we need both to support the expansion of God’s Word both monetarily and physically.
I believe 2 Corinthians Chapter 9 applies nicely here.
As always my love to all ![[hug]](graemlins/hug.gif) and May God Bless ![[Prayer]](graemlins/prayer.gif)
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A person talking can not be listening; A person not listening can not be learning.
Posts: 299 | From: Raleigh/North Carolina | Registered: Jun 2004
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TEXASGRANDMA
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Mat 23:23Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye pay tithe of mint and anise and cummin, and have omitted the weightier [matters] of the law, judgment, mercy, and faith: these ought ye to have done, and not to leave the other undone.
Notice that this is Jesus’ words and He says “these ought ye to have done.
Luk 11:42But woe unto you, Pharisees! for ye tithe mint and rue and all manner of herbs, and pass over judgment and the love of God: these ought ye to have done, and not to leave the other undone.
Here it is repeated in the book of Luke.
1Cr 9:13Do ye not know that they which minister about holy things live [of the things] of the temple? and they which wait at the altar are partakers with the altar? 1Cr 9:14Even so hath the Lord ordained that they which preach the gospel should live of the gospel.
8 Here mortal men receive tithes, but there he receives them, of whom it is witnessed that he lives. 9 Even Levi, who receives tithes, paid tithes through Abraham, so to speak, 10 for he was still in the loins of his father when Melchizedek met him.
BILLY GRAHAM - WORLD RENOWN EVANGELIST
"The Bible teaches tithing. A tithe is one tenth of your income. That one-tenth of your income belongs to the Lord. In Addition to your tithe, you should give as the Lord has prospered you."
(Rules for Christian Living, pg 40)
DAVID JEREMIAH - AUTHOR, PASTOR, RADIO BIBLE TEACHER
'DON'T YOU DARE SEND YOUR TITHE TO THIS RADIO BROADCAST....YOUR TITHE NEEDS TO GO TO YOUR LOCAL CHURCH......ANY OFFERING OVER AND BEYOND YOUR TITHE COULD COME TO A MINSTRY LIKE THIS, BUT YOUR TITHE GOES TO YOUR LOCAL CHURCH..."
ADRIAN ROGERS - PASTOR BELLEVUE BAPTIST CHURCH, MEMPHIS, TENNESSEE AND SPEAKER ON LOVE WORTH FINDING TV & RADIO MINISTRIES
"GOD'S TITHE IS TO BE BROUGHT TO GOD'S HOUSE ON GOD'S DAY SO THAT GOD'S WORK WILL BE DONE GOD'S WAY..MEN AND WOMEN TODAY ROB GOD BY WITHHOLDING THEIR TITHES AND OFFERINGS...."
(FREEDOM FROM FINANCIAL WORRY, PG 10 & 16, Adrian Rogers)
http://www.bethelcog.org/GA_TithingToday.html
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Luk 21:28 And when these things begin to come to pass, then look up, and lift up your heads; for your redemption draweth nigh.
http://www.indieheaven.com/artists/mm (son-in-law)http://www.myspace.com/mireles
Posts: 4985 | From: Washington State | Registered: Jan 2003
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TEXASGRANDMA
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Rose,
There is a difference in a local Pastor and a televegalist. Tithing supports a local Church.
Surely you are not suggest that we no longer have local Churches.
betty
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Luk 21:28 And when these things begin to come to pass, then look up, and lift up your heads; for your redemption draweth nigh.
http://www.indieheaven.com/artists/mm (son-in-law)http://www.myspace.com/mireles
Posts: 4985 | From: Washington State | Registered: Jan 2003
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Itty-Bitty Girl
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posted
quote:
Originally posted by TEXASGRANDMA:
The Widow's Two Mites
(Luke 21:1-4)
41 Now Jesus sat opposite the treasury and saw how the people put money into the treasury. And many who were rich put in much. 42 Then one poor widow came and threw in two *mites, which make a quadrans. 43 So He called His disciples to Himself and said to them, "Assuredly, I say to you that this poor widow has put in more than all those who have given to the treasury; 44 for they all put in out of their abundance, but she out of her poverty put in all that she had, her whole livelihood."
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Notice that Jesus did not take the money and give it back to the widow and tell her that she was to poor to give.
Ask most Pastors and they will tell you that those who are some of the most faithful in giving are those who have the least.
Luke 21:1-4 (King James Version)
"And he looked up, and saw the rich men casting their gifts into the treasury.
And he saw also a certain poor widow casting in thither two mites.
And he said, Of a truth I say unto you, that this poor widow hath cast in more than they all:
For all these have of their abundance cast in unto the offerings of God: but she of her penury hath cast in all the living that she had."
Treasury...
Treasury...
Treasury...
The subject is very interesting, I've read up on it and I have found some interesting things about it.
The term "Treasury" was first used in classical times to describe the votive buildings erected to house gifts to the gods, such as the Siphnian Treasury in Delphi.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Treasury
That would explain why the woman put in the money, she was giving out of gratitude and devotion to God. She was not obligated to do that. If she kept the money, she would not be stealing from God. Also, I do not believe that this woman was giving to get.
Also, no one touches what is in the treasury.
No televangelists use it to splurge.
This is dedicated completely to God.
Again, tithing is completely unscriptural, no matter how many try to justify it, no matter how many scriptures are twisted, broken and jammed, in an effort to make it all fit in place. It just won't fit, it won't.
Posts: 1051 | Registered: Apr 2005
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TEXASGRANDMA
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I don't see tithing as a yoke. I see tithing to God through my Church as supporting missionaries and other things my Church supports. My Church supports different ministires like one for unwed mothers and men and women in the Navy. Our Church brought a family from New Orleans and set them up in an apartment and provides free schooling for them in our Christian School. I indidividually canot pay for all that myself, but my little money combined with others in the Church does. I would rather pay my tithes and be wrong and then not pay my tithes and then be told by God, Himself that I stoled from Him. No where in the Bible does it say it is a sin to pay tithes.
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Luk 21:28 And when these things begin to come to pass, then look up, and lift up your heads; for your redemption draweth nigh.
http://www.indieheaven.com/artists/mm (son-in-law)http://www.myspace.com/mireles
Posts: 4985 | From: Washington State | Registered: Jan 2003
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HE LIVES
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It's a crying shame that churchianity has taught this practic as scriptural. The tradition of man can be overpowering to those that don't know what the scripture says about tithing.
Just as Satan twisted the scriptures in the desert as he was tempting Jesus, so has modern religion twisted the scriptures for it's own gain.
Nowhere in the bible can you find this modern practic of tithing, Nowhere.
I love to give to those in need, but the modern tithe is the yoke of man.
Your brother in Christ,
Chuck
Posts: 182 | From: Missouri | Registered: Aug 2005
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TEXASGRANDMA
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The Widow's Two Mites
(Luke 21:1-4)
41 Now Jesus sat opposite the treasury and saw how the people put money into the treasury. And many who were rich put in much. 42 Then one poor widow came and threw in two *mites, which make a quadrans. 43 So He called His disciples to Himself and said to them, "Assuredly, I say to you that this poor widow has put in more than all those who have given to the treasury; 44 for they all put in out of their abundance, but she out of her poverty put in all that she had, her whole livelihood."
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Notice that Jesus did not take the money and give it back to the widow and tell her that she was to poor to give.
Ask most Pastors and they will tell you that those who are some of the most faithful in giving are those who have the least.
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Luk 21:28 And when these things begin to come to pass, then look up, and lift up your heads; for your redemption draweth nigh.
http://www.indieheaven.com/artists/mm (son-in-law)http://www.myspace.com/mireles
Posts: 4985 | From: Washington State | Registered: Jan 2003
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TEXASGRANDMA
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We are on a fixed income and we tithe. When I made minimum wage as a mom with two kids, I tithed. I found that when I tithed God helped my money go further. To me tithing is a priviledge. God can do His work without me, but he allows me to be a part of it and I feel blessed because of this. We had a chance to move to a bigger apartment last month, much closer to my son ( he lives 2 hrs away). I really wanted to move, but I realized that with the rent being 125 more a month, we would not be able to live there and tithed. So we did not move. I am still praying for God to work away for us to move closer to my son, but not at the expense of our tithing.
betty
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Luk 21:28 And when these things begin to come to pass, then look up, and lift up your heads; for your redemption draweth nigh.
http://www.indieheaven.com/artists/mm (son-in-law)http://www.myspace.com/mireles
Posts: 4985 | From: Washington State | Registered: Jan 2003
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KnowHim
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Tithing and Clergy Salaries
by Frank Viola
Unlike so many, we do not peddle the word of God for profit.
-Paul of Tarsus
Will a man rob God? Yet you rob me. But you ask, `How do we rob you? ' In tithes and offerings. You are under curse—the whole nation of you—because you are robbing me. Bring the whole tithe into the storehouse, that there may be food in my house. Test me in this, says the Lord Almighty, and see if I will not throw open the floodgates of heaven and pour out so much blessing that you will not have room enough for it.'
This passage from Malachi Chapter 3 seems to be many a pastor's favorite Bible text. Especially when church giving is at low tide. If you have spent any time in the modern church, you have heard this passage thundered from the pulpit on numerous occasions. I have had it pushed down my throat so many times I have lost count.
Consider some of the rhetoric that goes with it:
"God has commanded you to faithfully give your tithes. If you do not tithe, you are robbing God Almighty, and you put yourself under a curse."
"Let's repeat the 'Tither 's Creed' together shall we? `The tithe is the Lord's. In truth we learned it. In faith we believe it. In joy we give it. The tithe!'"
"Your tithes and offerings are necessary if God's work will go on!" ("God's work," of course, means salarying the pastoral staff and footing the monthly electric bill to keep the building afloat.)
What is the result of this sort of pressure? God's people are guilted into giving one-tenth of their incomes every week. When they do, they feel they have made God happy. And they can expect Him to bless them financially. When they fail, they feel they are being disobedient, and a financial curse looms over them.
But let us take a few steps backward and ask the penetrating question: "Does the Bible teach us to tithe? And ... are we spiritually obligated to fund the pastor and his staff? "
The answer to these two questions is shocking. (If you are a pastor, it is arresting. So you may want to take out your heart medicine now!)
Is Tithing Biblical?
Tithing does appear in the Bible. So yes, tithing is Biblical. But it is not Christian. The tithe belongs to ancient Israel. It was essentially their income tax. Never do you find first-century Christians tithing in the NT.
Most Christians do not have the foggiest idea about what the Bible teaches regarding the tithe. So let us look at it. The word "tithe" simply means the tenth part.' The Lord instituted three kinds of tithes for Israel as part of their taxation system. They are:
A tithe of the produce of the land to support the Levites who had no inheritance in Canaan.'
A tithe of the produce of the land to sponsor religious festivals in Jerusalem. If the produce was too burdensome for a family to carry to Jerusalem, they could convert it into money.'
A tithe of the produce of the land collected every third year for the local Levites, orphans, strangers, and widows.'
This was the Biblical tithe. Notice that God commanded Israel to give 23.3% of their income every year, as opposed to 10%.6 These tithes consisted of the produce of the land—which is, the seed of the land, the fruit of the land, and the herd or the flock. It was the product of the land, not money.
A clear parallel can be seen between Israel's tithing system and the modern taxation system present in America. Israel was obligated to support their national workers (priests), their holidays (festivals), and their poor (strangers, widows, and orphans) by their annual tithes. Most modern tax systems serve the same purpose.
With the death of Jesus, all ceremonial, governmental, and religious codes that belonged to the Jews were nailed to His cross and buried . . . never to come out again to condemn us. For this reason, we never see Christians tithing in the NT. No more than we see them sacrificing goats and bulls to cover their sins!
Paul writes, "And when you were dead in your transgressions and the uncircumcision of your flesh, He made you alive together with Him, having forgiven us all our transgressions, having canceled out the certificate of debt consisting of decrees against us and which was hostile to us; and He has taken it out of the way, having nailed it to the cross . . . Therefore let no one act as your judge in regard to food or drink or in respect to a festival or a new moon or a Sabbath day—things which are a mere shadow of what is to come; but the substance belongs to Christ."'
Tithing belonged exclusively to Israel under the Law. When it comes to financial stewardship, we see the first-century saints giving cheerfully according to their ability—not dutifully out of a command.' Giving in the early church was voluntary.' And those who benefited from it were the poor, orphans, widows, sick, prisoners, and strangers.10
I can hear someone making the following objection right now: "But what about Abraham? He lived before the Law. And we see him tithing to the high priest Melchizedek." Does this not overturn your argument that the tithe is part of the Mosaic Law? "
No it does not. First, Abraham's tithe was completely voluntary. It was not compulsory. God did not command it as He did with the tithe for Israel.
Second, Abraham tithed out of the spoils that he acquired after a particular battle he fought. He did not tithe out of his own regular income or property. Abraham's act of tithing would be akin to you winning the lottery, a mega jackpot, or receiving a work-bonus, then tithing it.
Third, and most important, this is the only time that Abraham tithed out of his 175 years of life on this earth. We have no evidence that he ever did such a thing again. Consequently, if you wish to use Abraham as a "proof text" to argue that Christians must tithe, then you are only obligated to tithe one time!'2
This brings us back to that oft-quoted text in Malachi 3. What was God saying there? First, this passage was directed to ancient Israel when they were under the Mosaic Law. God's people were holding back their tithes and offerings. Consider what would happen if a large portion of Americans refused to pay their income taxes. American law views this as robbery.13 Those found guilty would be punished for stealing from the government.
In the same way, when Israel held back her taxes (tithes), she was stealing from God—the One who instituted the tithing system. The Lord then commanded His people to bring their tithes into the storehouse. The storehouse was located in the chambers of the temple. The chambers were set apart to hold the tithes (which was produce, not money) for the support of the Levites, the poor, the strangers, and the widows.14
Notice the context of Malachi-3:8-10: In verse 5, the Lord says that He will judge those who oppress the widow, the fatherless, and the stranger. He says, "So I will come near to you for judgment. I will be a quick to testify against sorcerers, adulterers and perjurers, against those who defraud laborers of their wages, who oppress the widows and the fatherless, and deprive aliens of justice, but do not fear me."
The widows, fatherless, and strangers were the rightful recipients of the tithe. Because Israel was withholding her tithes, she was guilty of oppressing these three groups. Herein is the heart of God in Malachi 3:8-10: Oppression to the poor.
How many times have you heard preachers point this out when they harangued you with Malachi 3? Out of the scores of sermons I have heard on tithing, I never once heard a whisper about what the passage was actually talking about. That is, tithes were for the purpose of supporting the widows, the fatherless, the strangers, and the Levites (who owned nothing). This is what the Lord's word in Malachi 3 has in view.
The Origin of the Tithe and the Clergy Salary
Cyprian (200-258) is the first Christian writer to mention the practice of financially supporting the clergy. He argued that just as the Levites were supported by the tithe, so the Christian clergy.
should be supported by the tithe.15 But this is misguided thinking. Today, the Levitical system has been abolished. We are all priests now. So if a priest demands a tithe, then all Christians should tithe to one another!
Cyprian's plea was exceedingly rare for his time. It was neither picked up nor echoed by the Christian populace until much later.16 Other than Cyprian, no Christian writer before Constantine ever used Old Testament references to advocate tithing." It was not until the fourth century, 300 years after Christ, that some Christian leaders began to advocate tithing as a Christian practice to support the clergy.18 But it did not become widespread among Christians until the eighth century! 19 According to one scholar, "For the first seven hundred years they [tithes] are hardly ever mentioned. "20
Charting the history of Christian tithing is a fascinating exercise. Tithing evolved from the State to the church. Giving a tenth of one's produce was the customary rent-charge for lands that were leased in Western Europe. As the church increased its ownership of land across Europe, the 10% rent-charge was given to the church. This gave the 10% rent-charge a new meaning. It came to be identified with the Levitical tithe!21 Consequently, the Christian tithe as an institution was based on a fusion of Old Testament practice and pagan institution.22
By the eighth century, the tithe became required by law in many areas of Western Europe.23 By the end of the tenth century, the distinction of the tithe as a rent-charge and a moral requirement supported by the Old Testament had faded.24 The tithe became mandatory throughout Christian Europe.25
To put it another way, before the eighth century the tithe was practiced as a voluntary offering.26 But by the end of the tenth century, it had devolved into a legal requirement to fund the State church—demanded by the clergy and enforced by the secular authorities!27
Thankfully, most modern churches have done away with the tithe as a legal requirement.28 But the practice of tithing is as much alive today as it was when it was legally binding. Sure, you may not be physically punished if you fail to tithe. But if you are not a tither in most modern churches, you will be barred from a slew of ministry positions. And you will be forever guilted from the pulpit!29
As far as clergy salaries go, ministers were unsalaried for the first three centuries. But when Constantine appeared, he instituted the practice of paying a fixed salary to the clergy from church
funds and municipal and imperial treasuries.30 Thus was born the clergy salary, a harmful practice that has no root in the NT.31
The Root of All Evil
If a believer wishes to tithe out of personal decision or conviction, that is fine. Tithing becomes a problem when it is rep-resented as God's command, binding upon every believer.
Mandatory tithing equals oppression to the poor.32 Not a few poor Christians have been thrown headlong into further poverty because they have been told that if they do not tithe, they are robbing God.33 When tithing is taught as God's command, Christians who can barely make ends meet are guilted into deeper poverty. In this way, tithing evacuates the gospel from being "good news to the poor."34 Rather than good news, it becomes a heavy burden. Instead of liberty, it becomes oppression. We are so apt to forget that the original tithe that God established for Israel was to benefit the poor, not hurt them!
Conversely, modern tithing is good news to the rich. To a high-earner, 10% is but a paltry sum. Tithing, therefore, appeases the consciences of the rich, while it has no significant impact on their lifestyles. Not a few wealthy Christians are deluded into thinking they are "obeying God" because they throw a measly 10% of their income into the offering plate.
But God has a very different view of giving. Recall the parable of the widow's mite: "Jesus saw the rich putting their gifts into the temple treasury. He also saw a poor widow put in two very small copper coins. `I tell you the truth, ' He said, `this poor widow has put in more than all the others. All these people gave their gifts out of their wealth; but she out of her poverty put in all she had to live on.”
Sadly, tithing is often viewed as a litmus test for discipleship. If you are a good Christian, you will tithe (so it is thought). But this is a bogus application. Tithing is no sign of Christian devotion. If it were, all first-century Christians would be condemned as being undevoted!
The lingering root behind the sustained push for tithing in the modern church is the clergy salary. Not a few pastors feel that they must preach tithing to remind their congregation of its obligation to support them and their programs. And they will use the promise of financial blessing or the fear of a financial curse to ensure that the tithes keep rolling in.
In this way, modern tithing is the equivalent of a Christian lottery. Pay the tithe, and God will give you more money in return. Refuse to tithe, and God will punish you. Such thoughts rip at the heart of the good news of the gospel.
The same can be said about the clergy salary. It too has no NT merit. In fact, the clergy salary runs against the grain of the entire New Covenant.36 Elders (shepherds) in the first century were never salaried.37 They were men with an earthly vocation.38 They gave to the flock rather than took from it.39
Salarying pastors makes them paid professionals. It elevates them above the rest of God's people. It creates a clerical caste that turns the living Body of Christ into a business. Since the pastor and his staff are "paid" to do ministry—they are the paid professionals. The rest of the church lapses into a state of passive dependence.
If every Christian got in touch with the call that lies upon them to be functioning priests in the Lord's house (and they were permitted to exercise that call), the question would immediately arise: "What on earth are we paying our pastor for!? "
But in the presence of a passive priesthood, such questions never arise.40 On the contrary, when the church functions as she should, a professional clergy becomes unnecessary. Suddenly, the thought that says, "that is the job of the pastor" looks heretical. Put simply, a professional clergy fosters the pacifying illusion that the Word of God is classified (and dangerous) material that only card-carrying experts can handle.41
But that is not all. Paying a pastor forces him to be a man-pleaser. It makes him the slave of men. His meal-ticket is attached to how well his congregation likes him. Thus he is not free to speak freely without the fear that he may lose some heavy tithers. Herein lies the scourge of the pastor system.
A further peril of the paid pastor system is that it produces men who are void of any skill—something we inherited from the pagan Greeks.42 For this reason, it takes a man of tremendous courage to step out of the pastorate.
Unfortunately, most of God's people are deeply naive about the overwhelming power of the pastor system. It is a faceless system that does not tire of chewing up and spitting out its young.43 Again, God never intended the professional pastorate to exist. There is no Scriptural mandate or justification for such a thing. In fact, it is impossible to construct a Biblical defense for it.44
Most frequently, ushers are called upon to handle the reception of the money during the church service. Typically, they do so by passing a "collection plate" to the congregation. The practice of passing the collection plate is another post-apostolic invention. It began in 1662. Although alms dishes and alms chests were present before then.45
The usher originated from Queen Elizabeth I's (1533-1603) reorganization of the liturgy of the church of England. Ushers had the job of seeing where the people sat, collecting the offering, and keeping records of who took communion. The predecessor of the usher is the church "porter." The porter was a minor order (lesser clergy) tracing back to the third century.46 Porters had the duty of superintending lock up and opening of church doors, keeping order in the building, and the general direction of the deacons.47 Porters were replaced by "churchwardens" in England before and during the Reformation period.48 Out of the churchwarden grew the usher.
Conclusion
In conclusion, tithing, while Biblical, is not Christian. Jesus Christ did not affirm it. The first-century Christians did not observe it. And for 300 years, God's people did not practice it. Tithing did not become a widely accepted practice among Christians until the eighth century!
Giving in the NT was according to one's ability. Christians gave to help other believers as well as to support apostolic workers, enabling them to travel and plant churches.49 One of the most outstanding testimonies of the early church has to do with how liberal the Christians were to the poor and needy.50 This is what provoked outsiders, including the philosopher Galen, to watch the awesome, winsome power of the early church and say: "Behold how they love one another. "51
Tithing is only mentioned four times in the NT. But none of these instances applies to Christians.52 Again, tithing belongs to the Old Testament era where a taxation system was needed to support the poor and where a special priesthood was set apart to minister to the Lord. With the coming of Jesus Christ, there has been a "change of law"—the old has been "set aside" and rendered obsolete by the new.53
We are all priests now—free to function in God's house. The Law, the old priesthood, and the tithe have all been crucified. There is now no temple curtain, no temple tax, and no special priesthood that stands between God and man. You, dear Christian, have been set free from the bondage of tithing and from the obligation to support an unbiblical clergy system.
This article has been excerpted from Frank Viola's book Pagan Christianity: The Origins of Our Modern Church Practices. The original chapter contains 53 footnotes supporting the statements in the article. You may order the book at: http://www.ptmin.org/pagan.htm
Posts: 3276 | From: Charlestown, IN | Registered: Jun 2002
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KnowHim
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This is a good questions. I believe we should give everything we have back to God.
One more time (BACK TO GOD) not to Preachers that take that scripture out of context so they can force people to give to their Church. You don't have to give to a certain Church. But give to God whom will not keep your money for Himself but help others with it.
The below is a very good study on this subject:
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"Will a man ROB God?" How many untold tens of thousands of men will give account one day for teaching this verse in Malachi 3:8 totally out of context for their own sordid gain. I couldn’t count the times I have heard self-appointed ministers of the gospel berate their congregations and listeners for "robbing God" in tithes and offerings. This verse in Malachi certainly means what it says. Someone was defrauding God of tithes and offerings, but wait until you find out who it is that God blames for this act.
On any given Sunday morning there will be numerous men-of-the-cloth who will be bellowing out over the air waves that people are being "cursed with a curse" because they have failed to pay God ten percent of their paychecks. And should such a gullible listener decide to repent and give God ten percent of his salary, just how would he do that? Just keep reading. These men of the cloth who often have unquenchable worldly desires of the flesh, will be sure to give you an address where you can send them (or, ah, rather God) your tithe. And do they have a right to quote these Scriptures in this manner? No they do not, and furthermore they themselves know better.
continue reading this by going to the below link:
http://www.bible-truths.com/tithing.html
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Posts: 3276 | From: Charlestown, IN | Registered: Jun 2002
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HE LIVES
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I agree.
Posts: 182 | From: Missouri | Registered: Aug 2005
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ahar
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I think HFHS has hit the nail on the head.
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Cheers
Andy
Posts: 290 | From: UK | Registered: Jun 2006
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helpforhomeschoolers
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posted
Jesus did not abolish the OT Laws, he fulfilled them. There is a huge difference.
Mt 5:17 Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil.
However, the tithe is not scriptural for the NT church because the tithe was for the Levite Presithood, which no longer exists. It was changed. We are the preisthood.
Heb 7:12 For the priesthood being changed, there is made of necessity a change also of the law.
1Pe 2:9 But ye are a chosen generation, a royal priesthood, an holy nation, a peculiar people; that ye should shew forth the praises of him who hath called you out of darkness into his marvellous light:
The church should be taking care of the church... not as in building but as in body. There should not be lack in the body because we should be one.. sharing each others burdens those who have providing for those who lack as the Apostolic church did.
Acts 2:42 ¶ And they continued stedfastly in the apostles’ doctrine and fellowship, and in breaking of bread, and in prayers.
43 And fear came upon every soul: and many wonders and signs were done by the apostles.
44 And all that believed were together, and had all things common;
45 And sold their possessions and goods, and parted them to all men, as every man had need.
46 And they, continuing daily with one accord in the temple, and breaking bread from house to house, did eat their meat with gladness and singleness of heart,
47 Praising God, and having favour with all the people. And the Lord added to the church daily such as should be saved.
The reason pastors preach tithing is that it is needed to run church buildings and provide pastor's salaries, but this is not the way of the apostolic church.
Yes, we should give and give cheerfully. We should give abundantly, and we should take care of each other for we are ONE body.
Ga 6:2 Bear ye one another’s burdens, and so fulfil the law of Christ.
1Jo 3:17 But whoso hath this world’s good, and seeth his brother have need, and shutteth up his bowels of compassion from him, how dwelleth the love of God in him?
2Co 9:7 Every man according as he purposeth in his heart, so let him give; not grudgingly, or of necessity: for God loveth a cheerful giver.
Ac 20:35 I have shewed you all things, how that so labouring ye ought to support the weak, and to remember the words of the Lord Jesus, how he said, It is more blessed to give than to receive.
So, we might give 50 or 60 or 90 percent. What ever we have of this world's wealth is not ours anyway.. it is given to us to use as we have need and to bless others.
But the reason there is not any "tithe" for the NT church is not that the Law is abolished, but that the priesthood is changed and there is no Levite priesthood to give tithe to. We have a new preisthood, of whom Christ is the HIGH Priest after the order of Melchizedek, and we are the body of that High Priest.
Posts: 4684 | From: Southern Black Hills of South Dakota | Registered: Jun 2002
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TheGreatSouthLand
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We attend a church where our minister is very big on tithing. He quotes Malachi 3:10 (Bring the whole tithe into the house....Test me and see...) My question is this. Do we as New Testement believers need to tithe. When Christ died on the cross he paid for, and abolished all the laws that the Children of Israel were living under. Tithing is one of these. Should we not now be people who GIVE because we want to give, rather than TITHE because we have to. I realise that it is God who supplies all our needs. And it is because of Him that we have food on our tables and clothes on our backs. Shouldn't we give out of love for Him for all that he has done for us. Can we expect people to tithe of they can't put enough food on the table for their families (I've been there) Telling people that they should tithe, and that if they don't they are robbing God is more of a guilt trip thing and a law rather than something that is done out of the heart, no matter how big the offering is.
Anyway. What do others think
Thanks
Posts: 10 | From: Australia | Registered: Sep 2006
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