This is topic How to lose your salvation in forum Exposing False Teaching at Christian Message Boards.


To visit this topic, use this URL:
https://thechristianbbs.com/cgi-bin/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic;f=53;t=000334

---

Posted by TheBibleSender (Member # 7046) on :
 
INTRODUCTION

So...you want to lose your salvation. Well, you don’t really want to lose it--but you think you have, or could, or that someone you know certainly has lost theirs. They used to go to church every service and teach a Sunday School class, but now they cuss and drink and won’t step inside a church door. They were obviously saved before. They are obviously lost now. So, they must have lost their salvation. It’s as simple as that...or is it?

The idea of losing your salvation is simple. All you have to do is lose everything you gained when you got saved. Since you could never go to hell with anything you received when you were saved, then everything you obtained through salvation must be either reversed or destroyed. Then you can go to hell. So your next move is to find the source which can tell you how to reverse these steps.

Well, if you are going to lose your salvation (just bear with me if you want to keep yours), then you must lose it according to the rules. The rule book is, of course, the word of God. You must not rely on feelings, or common sense, or human reasoning. Feelings can be wrong. Human thinking may not be God’s way (Isaiah 55:8-9). Only God’s Word is the absolute authority.

This brings us to the fourteen easy steps for losing your salvation. Since every one of these steps represents some great blessing you received when you got saved, then all of these steps must be completed without fail in order to lose your salvation. You cannot miss any of them and become lost. You must accomplish them all. Now It’s time to tackle that first step!

I. DECLARE GOD’S GRACE AS INSUFFICIENT

This first step involves the basis of your salvation. When you accept Jesus Christ as Saviour, you are saved totally by the grace of God.

Ephesians 2:8-9 teaches:

For by grace are ye saved through

faith; and that not of yourselves:

it is the gift of God: Not of works,

lest any man should boast.

Grace is defined as God’s unmerited favor. It is God doing for you what you cannot do for yourself. Since you cannot save yourself, God offers His gift of grace as the basis of your salvation. This means you cannot save yourself by good works. Water baptism, church membership, church confirmation, loving your neighbor, and even the keeping of the ten commandments are all unable to give you or anyone else a place in heaven.

Romans 3:20 states:

Therefore by the deeds of the law

there shall no flesh be justified in his

sight: for by the law is the knowledge

of sin.

Titus 3:5 declares:

Not by works of righteousness which

we have done, but according to his mercy

he saved us, by the washing of regeneration,

and renewing of the Holy Ghost;

Now, since good works can do nothing to earn salvation (see also Gal. 2:16; Phil. 3:9), then evil works can do nothing to remove salvation. You are saved in spite of your sins; you cannot become lost because of your sins. Since you are saved by grace, you can only become lost by declaring God’s grace as insufficient for you. That is the first step.

II. FIND THE FAITH OF CHRIST TO BE FAULTY

Whereas the first step removed the basis of salvation--grace, the second step is necessary to reverse the method of salvation--faith. Contrary to popular belief, you are not saved by producing enough faith so that God will accept you. Oh yes, you must believe. But your belief is completed by the faith of Christ. Again, the Bible must be the authority.

Look once more at Ephesians 2:8:

For by grace are ye saved through

faith; and that not of yourselves:

it is the gift of God:

You are saved by grace and through faith. But that faith is not of yourself; it is the gift of God. Does this mean that we are saved apart from our own decision to believe? Not at all!

Read carefully Galatians 2:16

Knowing that a man is not justified

by the works of the law, but by the

faith of Jesus Christ, even we have

believed in Jesus Christ, that we

might be justified by the faith of Christ,

and not by the works of the law: for by

the works of the law shall no flesh be justified.

You cannot be justified by the works of the law. But you can be justified by the faith of Jesus Christ. This is not faith in Christ, but the faith of Jesus Christ. But in order to be justified by the faith of Christ, you must believe in Him. Sound confusing?

Look at Romans 3:22:

Even the righteousness of God which is

by faith of Jesus Christ unto all and upon

all them that believe: for there is no difference:

Notice the wording carefully. The righteousness of God is received on the basis of the faith of Jesus Christ. The faith of Jesus Christ is given “unto all and upon all them that believe.” (See also Philippians 3:9.)

Although you must believe to the best of your ability, the perfect faith which provides for you a perfect salvation is the faith of Christ. This means that there is no need to “pray through” or “hold on” in order to get saved. We come to God in simple belief, and He completes our faulty faith with the perfect faith of Christ. This also means that you cannot become lost by losing faith. Although your faith may waver at times, your salvation is based on the faith of Christ. Therefore, the only way to lose your salvation is to find the faith of Christ to be faulty. That completes the second step.

III. GET CHRIST TO TAKE BACK HIS RIGHTEOUSNESS

This third step has to do with one of the great products of your salvation--imputed righteousness.. This imputed righteousness (that means righteousness placed on us from an outside source) involves the most uneven swap in the universe. When you get saved, you trade the rags of your sin for the robes of Christ’s righteousness. Let’s consider this trade one part at a time.

When Christ died on the cross, He took our sins upon Himself and paid for them in full.

Galatians 3:13 reads:

Christ hath redeemed us from the curse of the

law, being made a curse for us: for it is written,

Cursed is every one that hangeth on a tree:

II Corinthians 5:21 teaches:

For he hath made him to be sin for us, who knew

no sin; that we might be made the righteousness

of God in him.

God the Father made God the Son (Jesus Christ--the One who knew no sin) to be sin for us. That is, Christ took your sins upon Himself when He died n the cross, so that you could take His righteousness upon yourself when you accept Him as Saviour. When you are saved, you are clothed in the righteousness of Christ (see 1Corinthians 1:30). When God the Father sees you, He sees you through the blood of His Son. Therefore, you will never have to stand before God in your own righteousness (Philippians 3:9). You are truly complete in Christ (Colossians 2:10).

This also means that you cannot become lost by losing your own righteousness. Though your righteousness may fail from time to time, the righteousness of Christ can never fail. In order to lose your salvation, you must get Christ to take back His righteousness, and you must take back upon yourself the sin for which He died. And so the third step is completed.

IV. HAVE THE PARDON REMOVED FROM YOUR SIN

You receive something very special when you accept Christ. You receive a pardon for your sin greater than the pardon any criminal ever received from any governor or president. This pardon is based on none other than the shed blood of Christ.

Ephesians 1:7 declares:

In whom we have redemption through

his blood, the forgiveness of sins, according

to the riches of his grace;

When you are quickened (or, made alive) together with Christ, you are forgiven all trespasses: not just some or most, but all! This is why the forgiveness which saved is a completed act of the past and not a repeated act of the present.

Ephesians 4:32 reads:

And be ye kind one to another,

tenderhearted, forgiving one another,

even as God for Christ’s sake hath

forgiven you.

We are to be “forgiving” (present tense) others as God “hath forgiven” (past tense) us, not as He “forgives” (present tense) us. God forgave all of your sins at salvation: past, present, and future. Therefore, there is no need for a continual forgiving of sins in order to go to heaven. (NOTE: Of course, such complete forgiveness does not remove the need to repent from sins committed after salvation. But this daily cleansing of sins has no effect on salvation.)

Since you receive a full pardon at salvation, you cannot become lost by committing unpardoned sins. There can be no such thing for the saved person. Although you may sin and displease God after your salvation, God knew when He saved you what you would do and forgave you of those sins also. The only way out is to have the pardon which you received at salvation removed from your sin. And so ends step four.

V. CONVINCE THE FATHER TO FAIL IN HIS COMMITMENT

The fifth step has to do with the safekeeping of your soul. Before you are saved, you are the keeper of your own soul, and you cannot do anything but fail in its keeping. But when you get saved, you turn your soul over to the protection of another--God.

In II Timothy 1:12, Paul says:

For the which cause I also suffer these

things: for I know whom I have believed,

and am persuaded that he is able to keep

that which I have committed unto him against

that day.

In salvation, you gave up control of your own soul, and turned its safe keeping over to God the Father. God is now committed to the keeping of your soul to the end.

I Corinthians 1:8 declares:

Who shall also confirm you unto the end,

that ye may be blameless in the day of our

Lord Jesus Christ.

Also read Philippians 1:6:

Being confident of this very thing, that he

which hath begun a good work in you will

perform it until the day of Jesus C Christ:

Your confirmation unto the end and the performance of the work in you until the day of Jesus Christ is in the hand of the Lord.

Therefore, you cannot become lost by failing in your commitment to Christ. Since your salvation is based on the commitment of God, the loss of personal commitment would not affect your eternal destiny. No, the only way to lose your salvation is to somehow get God to fail in His commitment. This completes step five.

VI. BREAK THE FATHER’S SEAL OF THE SPIRIT

Step six has to do with one of the guarantees of your salvation. When you are saved, the Bible teaches that you are sealed by the Spirit of God.

Ephesians 1:13 teaches:

In whom ye also trusted, after that ye

heard the word of truth, the gospel of

your salvation: in whom also after that

ye believed, ye were sealed with that holy

Spirit of promise,

II Corinthians 1:21-22 reads:

Now he which stablisheth us with you in

Christ, and hath anointed us, is God; Who

hath also sealed us, and given the earnest

of the Spirit in our hearts.

These verses teach that you are sealed with the Holy Ghost by the Father at the time of salvation. The Holy Spirit is not your sealer; He is your seal. A seal is something that fastens securely and which must be broken in order to be opened. Your salvation is secured by the Spirit of God. And not only are you presently sealed, but you are sealed unto the day of redemption.

Ephesians 4:30 states:

And grieve not the holy Spirit of God,

whereby ye are sealed unto the day of

redemption.

The seal of the Spirit is guaranteed good unto the day of redemption, that is, the day when Christ takes us up to be with Him.

This means that you cannot become lost by breaking your promise to God. Since your security is based on the seal of the Spirit, no promise or commitment broken by you can void your salvation. The only way to lose your salvation is to break the Father’s seal of the Spirit. That is step six.

VII. CHANGE THE MEANING OF “EVERLASTING”

When you accept Christ as Saviour, you receive the gift of eternal, or everlasting, life.

Romans 6:23 explains:

For the wages of sin is death;

but the gift of God is eternal

life through Jesus Christ our Lord.

John 3:15-16 further states:

That whosoever believeth in him

should not perish, but have eternal

life. For God so loved the world,

that he gave his only begotten Son,

that whosoever believeth in him

should not perish, but have everlasting

life.

Please notice that Romans 6:23 and John 3:15 speak of “eternal life,” while John 3:16 speaks of “everlasting life.” When you are saved , you receive both. And while “everlasting” and “eternal” both mean without end, there is a difference in emphasis. “Everlasting” is a term of quantity and emphasizes length of life: everlasting as opposed to temporary. “Eternal,” on the other hand, is a term of quality and emphasizes the kind of life you receive at salvation: eternal as opposed to temporal or earthly. As Christ taught, He came that you might “have life” and that you might “have it more abundantly” (John 10:10).

Probably the greatest thing about eternal life is that it is given as a present possession.

John 5:24 reads:

Verily, verily, I say unto you, He

that heareth my word, and believeth

on him that sent me, hath everlasting

life, and shall not come into condemnation;

but is passed from death unto life.

When you hear the word and believe on Christ, you have (present tense) everlasting life. Nothing is ever said in scripture about receiving this life in the future. You have everlasting life as a present possession from the point of salvation.

This means that you cannot lose everlasting life. Think about this: if your life has ending today (you are going to perish), then it could not have been without ending (everlasting) yesterday. To lose everlasting life would be an impossibility. Therefore, since to lose everlasting life would be a contradiction of terms, there is only one way to lose your salvation. You must change the meaning of the word “everlasting.” That is the completion of step seven.

VIII. UNBIRTH YOURSELF FROM THE FAMILY OF GOD

When you are saved, you are born again. This is the doctrine of regeneration.

Titus 3:5 states:

Not by works of righteousness which

we have done, but according to his

mercy he saved us, by the washing of

regeneration, and renewing of the Holy

Ghost;

Notice that you are saved by the washing of regeneration. The word “regeneration” means to be reborn. You are said to be born again because your salvation is your second birth.

Read the teaching of John 1:12-13:

But as many as received him, to

them gave he power to become the

sons of God, even to them that believe

on his name: Which were born, not of

blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor

of the will of man, but of God.

While your first birth was physical, your second birth is spiritual (“of God”). By this new birth you become one of the sons or children of God.

Since you have been born into the family of God, you cannot become lost by denying your birth. A child naturally born cannot cease to be the father’s child, no matter what is said or what separations are made. So, an individual born into the family of God cannot simply cease to be the Father’s child. In order to lose your salvation, you must somehow unbirth yourself from the family of God. That is step eight.

IX. NULLIFY YOUR ADOPTION BY THE FATHER

Another benefit of salvation is your adoption by the Father. A saved person belongs to the Father by creation (He made us), by redemption (He bought us), by regeneration (we were born to Him), and by adoption (He adopted us). Concerning adoption.

Galatians 4:5-6 teaches:

To redeem them that were under the

law, that we might receive the

adoption of sons. And because ye

are sons, God hath sent forth the

Spirit of his Son into your hearts,

crying, Abba, Father.

In salvation you receive the adoption of sons. Therefore, through adoption, you also become one of the children of God (see also Romans 8:15-16).

You cannot become lost by simply ignoring your adoption. Adoption is a legal and binding change of parents whereby you lose your old parentage ( “of your father the devil,” John 8:44) and gain a new Father. You cannot lose your salvation by turning from your heavenly Father. You must somehow nullify your adoption by the Father. And so step nine ends.

X. SEPARATE YOURSELF FROM THE LOVE OF CHRIST

At the very moment any person accepts Christ as Saviour, another wondrous blessing takes place. They are placed within the center of Christ’s love. The love of Christ, which is beyond human comprehension, becomes your strong refuge.

Read here in Ephesians 3:19:

And to know the love of Christ, which

passeth knowledge, that ye might be

filled with all the fullness of God.

To know Christ is to know a love which is unknowable. This is one of the miracles of salvation.

This love into which you are placed is not only beyond human comprehension, but it is also the greatest power in the universe.

Romans 8:35-39 states:

Who shall separate us from the

the love of Christ? shall tribulation,

or distress, or persecution, or

famine, or nakedness, or peril, or

sword? As it is written, For thy

sake we are killed all the day long;

we are accounted as sheep for the

slaughter. Nay, in all these things

we are more than conquerors through

him that loved us. For I am persuaded,

that neither death, nor life, nor angels,

nor principalities, nor powers, nor things

present, nor things to come, Nor height,

nor depth, nor any other creature, shall be

able to separate us from the love of God,

which is in Christ Jesus our Lord.

Notice that one by one those things which might separate you from the love of Christ are eliminated. And then, lastly, all other possibilities are at once denied by the phrase, “nor any other creature.” To be in the love of Christ is to be eternally safe from all the dangers which your soul might encounter.

In fact, you cannot become lost by denying Christ’s love. When you give yourself to the love of Christ, He takes you into His bosom of love. This love is so powerful as to deny any other thing to come between His love and the Christian. Yet, to lose your salvation, you must somewhere find the strength to separate yourself from this great love.

That is step ten.

XI. REMOVE YOURSELF FROM THE PREMISES OF HEAVEN

When you are saved, you are spiritually translated to heaven. That’s right--at the point of your salvation, you are translated into heaven. Now this is not the physical catching up which is promised to come later, but it is a Biblically taught translation.

Look at Colossians 1:12-13:

Giving thanks unto the Father,

which hath made us meet to be

partakers of the inheritance of

the saints in light: Who hath

delivered us from the power of

darkness, and hath translated us

into the kingdom of his dear Son:

Notice that you have been (past tense) translated into the kingdom of God. To translate means to bear across and is used in the Bible in reference to a taking up into heaven. Enoch was not found “because God had translated him” (Heb. 11:5). This translation puts you spiritually into heaven. Still skeptical?

Then read Ephesians 2:5-6:

Even when we were dead in sins,

hath quickened us together with

Christ, (by grace ye are saved;)

And hath raised us up together,

and made us sit together in

heavenly places in Christ Jesus:

When are you raised up and made to sit in heavenly places? This occurs when you are saved. And where are these heavenly places? In chapter one of Ephesians, verse twenty, Jesus Christ is sitting at the right hand of God “in the heavenly places.” The heavenly places are the abode of God. They are heaven itself. You see, the wonderful truth is that since you are “in Christ” and Christ is in heaven, then you are positionally and spiritually already in heaven. You are only waiting for your body and soul to catch up with your spirit.

Now, for the problem. You cannot become lost by failing to go to heaven. In Christ, you are spiritually already there. You cannot simply lose out on your chance to go there. To lose your salvation, you must leave the premises of heaven and remove yourself from your position in Christ. That completes step eleven.

XII. COMMIT SINS WORSE THAN INCEST AND BLASPHEMY

If salvation is to be lost, then it must be lost through disobedience to God. Most who teach an unsure salvation would agree with this. Yet, what degree of sin brings this loss of salvation? Evil thoughts? Bitterness? Murder? Failing to attend church? Failure to pray? What sin or sins cross the line of no return? Again, we must let Scripture be the measure of truth.

In Corinthians, chapter five, a man in the church had taken his father’s wife as his own. Paul states that this is “such fornication as is not so much as named among the Gentiles” (1Corinthians 5:1). One could hardly imagine a worse category of sin than this. Yet Paul’s instructions concerning the treatment of this man in

I Corinthians 5:5 are as follows:

To deliver such an one unto Satan

for the destruction of the flesh,

that the spirit may be saved in the

day of the Lord Jesus.

Only his flesh was to be delivered to Satan. The spirit was still saved. This matches the description in

I Corinthians 3:15 of the man whose works will be burned:

If any man’s work shall be burned,

he shall suffer loss: but he himself

shall be saved; yet so as by fire.

You can lose every reward you could have had and yet go to heaven. Why? Because your salvation is based on the work of Christ, not on your own works. Your works, good or bad, neither gain nor lose salvation.

Another heinous sin is blasphemy. Surely if evil sins could remove salvation, this one could.

Yet, in I Timothy 1:20, Paul states:

Of whom is Hymenaeus and Alexander;

whom I have delivered unto Satan, that

They may learn not to blaspheme.

The pattern is the same as that found in I Corinthians, chapter five. Their flesh is delivered to Satan so that their spirits may be saved in the day of Christ.

You cannot lose your salvation by committing these or other terrible sins. You will be judged. You will lose heavenly rewards. But a human spirit once quickened by God must remain quickened. So, in order to lose your salvation, you must commit sins greater than these.

XIII. TAKE THE SPIRIT WITH YOU TO HELL

Although this may at first seem odd, in order to lose your salvation and go to hell, you must take the Holy Spirit with you. Let me explain.

Ephesians 1:13-14 states:

In whom ye also trusted, after

that ye heard the word of truth,

the gospel of your salvation:

in whom also after that ye believed,

ye were sealed with that holy Spirit

of promise, Which is the earnest of our

inheritance until the redemption of the

purchased possession, unto the praise

of his glory.

According to the strict order of the passage, you hear first, then you trust (or believe), and lastly, you are sealed with the holy Spirit. The sealing of the Spirit occurs at the moment of salvation because “if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his” (Romans 8:9). Therefore, to have Christ in your heart is to have the Spirit. And when you are sealed with the Spirit, the Holy Spirit becomes your earnest: the earnest of your inheritance until the redemption of the purchased possession.

What is an earnest? In buying real estate, you give earnest money to show that you are earnest or serious about buying a house. If you decide to back out of the purchase, the seller still gets to keep the earnest money. In other words, an earnest is a payment which cannot be taken back.

The Holy Spirit is the earnest of your inheritance. He is the guarantee that you will receive the rest of the purchased possession. And the Spirit, as your earnest, cannot be taken back, even if you were to become lost. Therefore, in order to lose your salvation, you must take God’s Spirit with you to hell.

XIV. TAKE THE SON WITH YOU TO HELL

The last of the steps toward the loss of salvation does not get any easier. This step is based on your relationship to Christ at the time of salvation.

Romans 8:16-17 states:

The Spirit itself beareth witness

with our spirit, that we are the

children of God: And if children,

then heirs; heirs of God, and joint-

heirs with Christ; if so be that we

suffer with him, that we may be also

glorified together.

At salvation, you become a joint-heir with Christ. To be a joint-heir means to inherit together; to share in the same inheritance with which the Father will bless the Son. This is a promise of God.

Yet, what if you lose your salvation and go to hell. As joint-heir, not only do you share in Christ’s inheritance, but He must also share in your inheritance. The only way for you to inherit hell and its horror is to take the Son of God with you to that awful place. That completes the fourteen steps toward loss of salvation.

CONCLUSION

You have read through fourteen steps which would be necessary if you were to lose your salvation. Obviously, to attempt these steps would be utterly foolish. God’s wondrous gift of salvation is eternal in every way. But, if you are still not convinced, check your reasons. Are they emotional? “It just doesn’t seem right.” Or rational? “It doesn’t make sense.” If so, then you need to surrender your emotions and thought to the truth of God’s word.

Perhaps you have been shown two or three proof texts which seem to teach possible loss of salvation. This is not the place to discuss individual proof texts, but rest assured that there is an answer to them. Check with the person who gave you this booklet. Very likely they or someone they know can give you an answer. Even so, scriptural doctrine must be taken as a whole, not as scattered proof texts. One or two scriptures we do not understand must not be used to deny one or two hundred passages which are very clear.

Maybe you have trouble accepting eternal security because you have watched the sinful lives of those who claim to have once been saved. They cuss and drink or “live like the devil” and yet expect to go to heaven. But rest assured, God’s salvation is not to be taken lightly. There are many who may have once had “religion” but they did not have Christ (1John 2:19). They never were saved. There are others who were truly saved and have backslidden. Yet, God teaches that He deals strongly with His own children (Hebrews 12:5-8). They cannot leave God without chastisement unless they are not God’s children. They key is to allow God to settle these problems. “So then every one of us shall give account of himself to God” (Romans 14:12).

But what about you? Eternal security means nothing to the person who has never been secure in the first place. The way of salvation is both plain and simple. You must first realize that you are a sinner. Sin is displeasing God: doing the wrong you ought not and failing to do what you should.

Romans 3:23 states:

For all have sinned, and come

short of the glory of God;

All men are sinners and therefore, you are a sinner. And this sin leads to death and hell.

Read Romans 6:23:

For the wages of sin is death;

but the gift of God is eternal

life through Jesus Christ our

Lord.

But notice that all men do not have to pay the wages of sin in eternal death. Some receive God’s gift of eternal life. To do that, you must repent, or turn away from your sins, and confess them to Jesus Christ.

In Acts 20:21 we read:

Testifying both to the Jews,

and also to the Greeks, repentance

toward God, and faith toward our

Lord Jesus Christ.

Now you must believe that Jesus Christ died on the cross for your sins, and that he was buried, and arose from the dead the third day. Notice the words of

Romans 10:9-10:

That if thou shalt confess with

thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and

shalt believe in thine heart that

God hath raised him from the

dead, thou shalt be saved. For

with the heart man believeth unto

righteousness; and with the mouth

confession is made unto salvation.

But this belief cannot simply be a head belief. No, you must now accept Jesus Christ personally as your Lord and Saviour and ask Him to come into your heart.

Romans 10:13 states:

For whosoever shall call upon the

name of the Lord shall be saved.

If you have never been saved, call on the name of the Lord right now. Confess to Him that you are a sinner. Trust in the death of Christ on the cross as the basis of your salvation. Ask Jesus Christ to save you and to come into your heart.

As a saved person, you should now glorify and praise God for His eternal gift to you. Lose your salvation? Not on your life, and not on the life of Jesus Christ!

---------------------------------------------------------------
© Copyrighted by David F. Reagan. As long as this notice is included, permission is granted to copy and distribute this material (electronically or in print form) for individual use or for small groups. All other rights (such as use in books, periodicals, on web pages, etc.) are reserved and must be obtained by permission from the author. Contact David Reagan at Antioch Baptist Church, 5709 N. Broadway, Knoxville, TN, 37918 – (865) 688-0780 – Fax (865) 689-1611 – doit55@juno.com
 

---

Posted by Michael Harrison (Member # 6801) on :
 
To lose your salvation, one only needs to be separated from Christ, for He is your salvation.

"For the wages of sin, is death."

How is one separated from Christ? Unbelief. To abide in sin is to abide in unbelief, and a certain looking forward to judgment.

Heb 10:26 "For if we sin wilfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins,"
Heb 10:27 "But a certain fearful looking for of judgment and fiery indignation, which shall devour the adversaries."

If you believe that you are sealed, yet you continue in sin, you bear no fruit of salvation. This puts you squarely under the parable of the talents, wherein one does not yield a return on the investment in which God, through Christ Jesus has, in one, so invested. You can't just take it 'for granted'. Even Paul said that you must run the race to the end. So if you would like to believe in the message that all is ok just because you believed, do try not to take others with you, for your lot will be even worse. God is looking for a return on His investment.

Moreover, He is not looking for lip service, or what is celebrated by men, or the offering of Cain.

Salvation is not a receipt which you present upon getting inside the Pearly Gates, which says "Admit One." Salvation is a robe, a wedding garmet which is Christ. Salvation doesn't depend upon your showing a date, time and place where you accepted Jesus. You must be able to demonstrate that Jesus is your salvation.

The parable of the talents bears this out. There was a date, time and place where he received the talent. He truly was saved, but he had no intrest beyond accepting the gift!

I had some people literally tell me once that they accepted Jesus as their savior to "Get it out of the way." Then they went on out to live life - however. Many have that mentality, clearly recognizing the importance of Christ, and even become members of a church. Yet they don't seek that relationship. This is most sad. So i take issue with those who say that such a one never was saved in the first place.

When Israel was brought out of Egypt, they were 'saved' out of Egypt. But you know what? Some in the wilderness were slain!
 

---

Posted by WildB (Member # 2917) on :
 
John.3

[15] That whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have eternal life.


ONCE SEALED ALWAYS SEALED.

Eph.1

[13] In whom ye also trusted, after that ye heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation: in whom also after that ye believed, ye were sealed with that holy Spirit of promise,


Eph.4

[30] And grieve not the holy Spirit of God, whereby ye are sealed unto the day of redemption.
 

---

Posted by Michael Harrison (Member # 6801) on :
 
Why am i not surprised to hear from you?

Heb 3:12 "Take heed, brethren, lest there be in any of you an evil heart of unbelief, in departing from the living God."

What good is being sealed if you 'depart'. You depart by clinging to the world, or some aspect of it. If you prefer the pleasure of sin for a season, what will be the end of it? God is merciful, and it goes a long way: but there is a cut off.

You still have a free will, and He will not crash it. He absolutely will not. The choice is still yours until you die. Yet, if you are clinging to Him, His love will be meaningful. He is able to save those who come to Him to the uttermost.
 

---

Posted by TheBibleSender (Member # 7046) on :
 
Are ye so foolish Having begun in the Spirit are ye now made perfect by the flesh Gal 3:3
 

---

Posted by WildB (Member # 2917) on :
 

quote:

---

Originally posted by Michael Harrison:
Why am i not surprised to hear from you?

Heb 3:12 "Take heed, brethren, lest there be in any of you an evil heart of unbelief, in departing from the living God."

What good is being sealed if you 'depart'. You depart by clinging to the world, or some aspect of it. If you prefer the pleasure of sin for a season, what will be the end of it? God is merciful, and it goes a long way: but there is a cut off.

You still have a free will, and He will not crash it. He absolutely will not. The choice is still yours until you die. Yet, if you are clinging to Him, His love will be meaningful. He is able to save those who come to Him to the uttermost.

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by Michael Harrison:
You said that once before. However, stated this way it is more correct. "You can sin a sin in which your eternal life is shortened."

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by WildB:
Eph.4

[30] And grieve not the holy Spirit of God, whereby ye are sealed unto the day of redemption.

---

Paul is talking to believers in Eph. 4 & 5. Eph. 5 goes on to say -
Eph. 5:3But fornication, and all uncleanness, or covetousness, let it not be once named among you, as becometh saints;

4Neither filthiness, nor foolish talking, nor jesting, which are not convenient: but rather giving of thanks.

5For this ye know, that no whoremonger, nor unclean person, nor covetous man, who is an idolater, hath any inheritance in the kingdom of Christ and of God.

6Let no man deceive you with vain words: for because of these things cometh the wrath of God upon the children of disobedience.


Christians can be led into deception by the enemy.
 

---

Posted by jiggyfly (Member # 6972) on :
 
John 1:29
The next day John saw Jesus coming toward him and said, “Look! There is the Lamb of God who takes away the sin of the world!

I am not an advocate of either OSAS or NOSAS. I find that even though they are opposed in some areas, they share some of the same error. I asked this same question in another thread and didn't get any response, so let me try again here.

How would you fit these scriptures into your doctrine of OSAS or NOSAS?

Romans 5:18
Therefore as by the offence of one judgment came upon all men to condemnation; even so by the righteousness of one the free gift came upon all men unto justification of life.

1Corinthians 15:21
For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ shall all be made alive.

Colossians 1:18-20
18 And he is the head of the body, the church: who is the beginning, the firstborn from the dead; that in all things he might have the preeminence. 19 For it pleased the Father that in him should all fulness dwell; 20 and, having made peace through the blood of his cross, by him to reconcile all things unto himself; by him, I say, whether they be things in earth, or things in heaven.
 

---

Posted by oneinchrist (Member # 6532) on :
 
Hi Biblesender,
Its nice to meet you. Welcome to BBS. I read your post and you speak about the basis of salvation. I was concerned about something I did not see in your post.......the message of repentance. What is your position on "repentance?"

With love in Christ, Daniel
 

---

Posted by becauseHElives (Member # 87) on :
 
You can never lose your Salvation but you can neglect it to the point you turn your back on Yahweh and just completely go back into sin and never return to your first love, you forget that repentance is not a one time deal but a life line to the Throne of Yahweh because of the Blood Yeshua gave to purchase you and it (the Blood) is on the MERCY SEAT in Yahweh's Presence day and night just waiting to cleanse all who will continually ask!

You can not neglect the Precious Blood of Yeshua and be Eternally Saved!!!!!!

Hebrews 2:3

How shall we escape, if we neglect so great salvation; {2} which at the first began to be spoken by the Lord, and was confirmed unto us by them that heard him;

(2) If the neglect and disobedience of the word spoken by angels was not left unpunished, much less will it be tolerated if we neglect the gospel which the Lord of angels preached, and was confirmed by the voice of the apostles, and with so many signs and wonders from heaven, and especially with great and mighty working of the Holy Spirit.
 

---

Posted by Michael Harrison (Member # 6801) on :
 
And to add to what becausehelives said:

John.10
[28] And I give unto them eternal life; and they shall never perish, neither shall any man pluck them out of my hand.
[29] My Father, which gave them me, is greater than all; and no man is able to pluck them out of my Father's hand.

It says that no man can pluck them from His hand. That doesn't include one's self. You still have a free will and can sin against the Holy Spirit. If you have not the fear of God, you can blunder, even reject said blessing, for the desire for sin.
 

---

Posted by oneinchrist (Member # 6532) on :
 
Hi again Biblesender,
Sorry, I did'nt notice at first....maybe just because I was speed reading a little....you did speak about the need to repent. Please disregard my question.

With love in Christ, Daniel
 

---

Posted by jiggyfly (Member # 6972) on :
 
John 1:29
The next day John saw Jesus coming toward him and said, “Look! There is the Lamb of God who takes away the sin of the world!

I am not an advocate of either OSAS or NOSAS. I find that even though they are opposed in some areas, they share some of the same error. I asked this same question in another thread and didn't get any response, so let me try again here.

How would you fit these scriptures into your doctrine of OSAS or NOSAS?

Romans 5:18
Therefore as by the offence of one judgment came upon all men to condemnation; even so by the righteousness of one the free gift came upon all men unto justification of life.

1Corinthians 15:21
For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ shall all be made alive.

Colossians 1:18-20
18 And he is the head of the body, the church: who is the beginning, the firstborn from the dead; that in all things he might have the preeminence. 19 For it pleased the Father that in him should all fulness dwell; 20 and, having made peace through the blood of his cross, by him to reconcile all things unto himself; by him, I say, whether they be things in earth, or things in heaven.

My post seems to be overlooked again so I have reposted it and hope that some will respond.
 

---

Posted by becauseHElives (Member # 87) on :
 
jiggyfly , please clarify your question?
 

---

Posted by Michael Harrison (Member # 6801) on :
 
OnQuote! "How would you fit these scriptures into your doctrine of OSAS or NOSAS?

Romans 5:18
Therefore as by the offence of one judgment came upon all men to condemnation; even so by the righteousness of one the free gift came upon all men unto justification of life." Quoteover!

That it came upon all men is limited to 'all men who would'. There is no salvation without submission to His will, surrender of their life, and of their person.


OnQuote! "1Corinthians 15:21
For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ shall all be made alive." Quoteover!

The key here is the expression "In Christ." But you say, isn't it a matter of, you are saved, or you are not saved, just like that? Well! Is there a 'degree' of being in Christ. Yes! I suppose there is. I more than suppose. There is a degree. Yet, you are saved, or you are not,(yet not sealed until passing the final mark).

Here is where the problem comes in. It is so hard to define it, that I will just refer to it as a caution; and I base it on the parable of the talents where the man had been given, what for illustration purposes, is equal to life, as represented by the talent. (I call it a caution to indicate not to take for granted anything concerning your salvation.) This man lost his! It says so right there. In the end it was taken from him and given to someone else. So the important thing is not to take it for granted. No one can say explicitly, perhaps, that you will lose your salvation, but the warnings are in the word, along with all of those encouraging promises. You have to see both.


Onquote! "Colossians 1:18-20
18 And he is the head of the body, the church: who is the beginning, the firstborn from the dead; that in all things he might have the preeminence. 19 For it pleased the Father that in him should all fulness dwell; 20 and, having made peace through the blood of his cross, by him to reconcile all things unto himself; by him, I say, whether they be things in earth, or things in heaven. " Quoteover!

Are you reconciled. One should know. Then, not to take it for granted, they should still search it out. Are they satisfied that they are reconciled to His satisfaction. Is there a defining point, something that you understand, i.e. recognize, which makes one to know that they are in His graces. Here is a clue borrowed from another scripture, a little out of context perhaps, but not really. If your heart condemns you not, then you know that you have what you ask of Him. In this case, we are talking about the person of Salvation. Jesus Christ.
 

---

Posted by jiggyfly (Member # 6972) on :
 

quote:

---

Originally posted by becauseHElives:
jiggyfly , please clarify your question?

---

quote:

---

“Look! There is the Lamb of God who takes away the sin of the world!

---

quote:

---

Romans 5:18
Therefore as by the offence of one judgment came upon all men to condemnation; even so by the righteousness of one the free gift came upon all men unto justification of life.

---

quote:

---

1Corinthians 15:21
For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ shall all be made alive.

---

quote:

---

Colossians 1:18-20
18 And he is the head of the body, the church: who is the beginning, the firstborn from the dead; that in all things he might have the preeminence. 19 For it pleased the Father that in him should all fullness dwell; 20 and, having made peace through the blood of his cross, by him to reconcile all things unto himself; by him, I say, whether they be things in earth, or things in heaven.

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by becauseHElives:
You can never lose your Salvation but you can neglect it to the point you turn your back on Yahweh and just completely go back into sin and never return to your first love, you forget that repentance is not a one time deal but a life line to the Throne of Yahweh because of the Blood Yeshua gave to purchase you and it (the Blood) is on the MERCY SEAT in Yahweh's Presence day and night just waiting to cleanse all who will continually ask!

---

What if, when you turn your back on God, your heart beomes so hardened that you don't asked to be cleansed??

Genesis 1:26 And God said, Let us make man in our image, after our likeness: and let them have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over the cattle, and over all the earth, and over every creeping thing that creepeth upon the earth.

Genesis 5:2 Male and female created he them; and blessed them, and called their name Adam, in the day when they were created.

Romans 5:12 When Adam sinned, sin entered the world. Adam’s sin brought death, so death spread to everyone, for everyone sinned.

Adam lost his salvation.
 

---

Posted by TheBibleSender (Member # 7046) on :
 

quote:

---

Originally posted by Michael Harrison:
And to add to what becausehelives said:

It says that no man can pluck them from His hand. That doesn't include one's self. You still have a free will and can sin against the Holy Spirit. If you have not the fear of God, you can blunder, even reject said blessing, for the desire for sin.

---

Come now. It does say no man that would include self. It doesn't say no man except ones self it say no man. If salvation is by grace which it is to say that you must keep yourself saved is a disgrace to the cleansing power of the blood of Christ.

Say you are driving down the road and out in front of your car runs a deer. You swerve to miss the deer and cuss. Before you can ask for forgivness you hit a tree and die. Do you honestly believe that you will go to hell? God bless.
 

---

Posted by becauseHElives (Member # 87) on :
 

quote:

---

What if, when you turn your back on God, your heart becomes so hardened that you don't asked to be cleansed??

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by TheBibleSender:

quote:

---

Originally posted by Michael Harrison:
And to add to what becausehelives said:

It says that no man can pluck them from His hand. That doesn't include one's self. You still have a free will and can sin against the Holy Spirit. If you have not the fear of God, you can blunder, even reject said blessing, for the desire for sin.

---

Come now. It does say no man that would include self. It doesn't say no man except ones self it say no man. If salvation is by grace which it is to say that you must keep yourself saved is a disgrace to the cleansing power of the blood of Christ.

Say you are driving down the road and out in front of your car runs a deer. You swerve to miss the deer and cuss. Before you can ask for forgivness you hit a tree and die. Do you honestly believe that you will go to hell? God bless.

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by Itty-Bitty Girl:
Cusswords are written in the bible.

---

Proof please. Not by Jesus that's for sure.

Deuteronomy 5:11 Thou shalt not take the name of the LORD thy God in vain: for the LORD will not hold him guiltless that taketh his name in vain.
 

---

Posted by Itty-Bitty Girl (Member # 4579) on :
 

quote:

---

Originally posted by Good NewsforAll:
Proof please. Not by Jesus that's for sure.

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by Good NewsforAll:
Deuteronomy 5:11 Thou shalt not take the name of the LORD thy God in vain: for the LORD will not hold him guiltless that taketh his name in vain.

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by Good NewsforAll:
The way these words are used in the Bible isn't cussing.

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by Good NewsforAll:
Cussing is when you utter these words in blasphemous anger.

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by Good NewsforAll:
To take the Lord God's name in vain means to utter his name,but not mean it in a praying fashion. We often hear 'Oh God' but people aren't' really praying to God. Often people will say 'Jesus' but say it in a cursing and disrespectul way, not really speaking to him.

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by Itty-Bitty Girl:
Back in the bible’s time those words were not cusswords; they were non-offensive.

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by Good NewsforAll:
To take the Lord God's name in vain means to utter his name,but not mean it in a praying fashion. We often hear 'Oh God' but people aren't' really praying to God. Often people will say 'Jesus' but say it in a cursing and disrespectul way, not really speaking to him.

---

quote:

---

From Itty-Bitty: No. You’re definition of taking God’s name in vain is something new that is not in the bible at all, not in the old testament or the new. It’s just not there.

---

quote:

---

posted by Good NewsforAll:

Adam lost his salvation.

---

hmmm...I would not jump to that conclusion...Adam might have repented, only God knows that...I can't believe that people may completely LOOSE their salvation?...could they?...

If so, I am afraid that I know of some people that have lost it!...
 

---

Posted by Good NewsforAll (Member # 6156) on :
 

quote:

---

Originally posted by lonlesol:
If so, I am afraid that I know of some people that have lost it!...

---

I am afraid that I have know of at least a couple of very hardened hearts. To me the Holy Spirit would have been crowded out of their lives, thus contaminating their souls.
 

---

Posted by lonlesol (Member # 4511) on :
 
For a father to manipulate the mind of a now 16 year old kid to declare to her mother that she has made her choice and then leave with her father is purely outrageous!...

I was called a Mormon and a Jehovah Witness by some of his family members!...which I am not!...I have been screamed at, and been accused of being mentally ill by my 16 year old daughter for believing in God!...

He has brought home one of his friends, a Christian friend, to convince me to stop reading and studying the Bible...but of course, that friend told him to repent and let me continue on doing what I was doing, which was growing in God's Word...a few months later, he left me for another woman with our daughter...he says that he believes in God and Jesus, but in his own way, which in his mind should be kept personal and never shared, just like politics should...

Our daughter used to believe in Jesus, but now, I am not so sure anymore...

Matthew 18:6
But if anyone causes one of these little ones who believe in me to sin, it would be better for him to have a large millstone hung around his neck and to be drowned in the depths of the sea.

Matthew 18:14
In the same way your Father in heaven is not willing that any of these little ones should be lost.

Mark 9:42
[Causing to Sin] "And if anyone causes one of these little ones who believe in me to sin, it would be better for him to be thrown into the sea with a large millstone tied around his neck.

Luke 17:2
It would be better for him to be thrown into the sea with a millstone tied around his neck than for him to cause one of these little ones to sin.


I know that I should forgive him for this but to be honest, I find it hard...I don't see my daughter anymore, she won't talk to me...I can't help but think about it every time that I am alone in my house after I get home from work...I was so convinced that if I kept reading and studying the Bible would help him, our daughter and myself to live a life that would be more pleasant to the Lord but it backfired on me...
I apologize for bringing this up again...
 

---

Posted by Good NewsforAll (Member # 6156) on :
 
I haven't heard your story before lonlesol. My heart and prayers go out to you. You must have suffered a lot of pain to go through this bitter loss of a child's love. The feeling is unimaginable because my daughter lives right next door, and my heart is thoroughly delighted every time she pops in to say "Hello".

I pray that some day you will gain that relationship with your daughter. God is in the miracle-working business.

Every time I see my daughter coming in the door it will remind me to pray for you.
 

---

Posted by David Campbell (Member # 1) on :
 

quote:

---

Originally posted by Itty-Bitty Girl:
No. You’re definition of taking God’s name in vain is something new that is not in the bible at all, not in the old testament or the new. It’s just not there.

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by Itty-Bitty Girl:
No. You’re definition of taking God’s name in vain is something new that is not in the bible at all, not in the old testament or the new. It’s just not there.

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by David Campbell:
Anyone that can’t see using God’s name, as a curse word is wrong can’t know Him as their savior. I can understand how non-believers can do this but someone that says they are a Christian and does this all the time is showing BIG RED flag they have never met Jesus Christ. If they had they would not belittle Him. So many people these days make up their own God and disregard what the bible says. This is called “idolatry” and one of the oldest sins in the bible.

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by David Campbell:
God's name is a HOLY name. "... Hallowed be thy name." MATTHEW 6:9b

God's name is NOT a curse word. "... a name which is above every name:" PHILIPPlANS 2:9b

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by Itty-Bitty Girl:
To say “Godd-----t” or “Jesus Christ” is not to take the Lord’s name in vain, to swear vainly in God’s name is to take the Lord’s name in vain.

---

You are contradicting yourself.

Definition of vain -
1. To no avail; without success: Our labor is in vain.
2. In an irreverent or disrespectful manner: to take the Lord's name in vain
3.Not yielding the desired outcome; fruitless: a vain attempt.
4. Lacking substance or worth: vain talk.

Do you want to present worthless lack of substance in the presence of God? I don't want to stand before him with nothing other than total respect and purity. Don't want to endanger my salvation.

I wouldn't even say 'Gosh' or 'G**z' in case I might grieve the Holy Spirit.
 

---

Posted by Itty-Bitty Girl (Member # 4579) on :
 
There is no contradiction; I have understanding. I know exactly what I am talking about and I know exactly what it means to take God’s name in vain; which is to swear a vain oath.
 

---

Posted by Itty-Bitty Girl (Member # 4579) on :
 
To swear a vain oath is to be rude and disrespectful to God in the old testament. In the new testament Jesus says to swear not at all.
 

---

Posted by Good NewsforAll (Member # 6156) on :
 

quote:

---

Originally posted by Itty-Bitty Girl:
To swear a vain oath is to be rude and disrespectful to God in the old testament. In the new testament Jesus says to swear not at all.

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by Itty-Bitty Girl:
There is no contradiction; I have understanding. I know exactly what I am talking about and I know exactly what it means to take God’s name in vain; which is to swear a vain oath.

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by phillip tidwell:
In one of his recent lessons (Feb. 17?), Dr. Young made the statement that “Jesus is not your ‘buddy’.” He went on to explain how no one should ever be distracted from the fact that Jesus is God and must be respected as such rather than humanized in our own minds. God is God and not human regardless how tempting it may be to engage in anthropomorphism and reduce Him to something we think we can understand or that makes us feel better about whom we are.

Leviticus 16:1 reminds us of the death of Aaron’s two sons because of their disobedience recorded in Leviticus 10:1-3. Mark 7:6-9 records how Jesus was angered by hypocrisy. The anger Jesus displayed in Mark 3:21-30 is much more pronounced and even frightening. These verses may not elicit the same nice warm, comfortable feeling of the God of mercy revealed in the Bible, but can’t be disregarded. I have a tremendous fear both for and of folks who claim Christianity apart from repentance and obedience.

---

quote:

---

1Cor.4
[5] Therefore judge nothing before the time, until the Lord come, who both will bring to light the hidden things of darkness, and will make manifest the counsels of the hearts: and then shall every man have praise of God.

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by David Campbell:

Please stop trying to promote self and come to know God. He created us and we are to be His. It is not about us, it is about Him.

David

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by Itty-Bitty Girl:

quote:

---

Originally posted by David Campbell:

Please stop trying to promote self and come to know God. He created us and we are to be His. It is not about us, it is about Him.

David

---

Thank you for the advice, it could not have come at a better time than this. I seriously will consider what you have shown me, I'll pray about it so maybe I can see what you see if you are right. I'll be humble about this and know that I may be wrong, and if I am, I hope to see the truth before it is too late.

Thank you again, David.

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by WildB:
What eles is troubeling you?

---