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Author
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Topic: How to lose your salvation
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WildB
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Member # 2917
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posted
1Thes.3
[8] For now we live, if ye stand fast in the Lord.
Stand fast my little sister, stand fast.
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That is all.....
Posts: 8775 | From: USA, MICHIGAN | Registered: Mar 2004
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Itty-Bitty Girl
Advanced Member
Member # 4579
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posted
quote:
Originally posted by WildB:
What eles is troubeling you?
I am not troubled. I am just going through some tests and trials that are strengthening me and making me more humble.
Posts: 1051 | Registered: Apr 2005
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WildB
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Member # 2917
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posted
quote:
Originally posted by Itty-Bitty Girl:
quote:
Originally posted by David Campbell:
Please stop trying to promote self and come to know God. He created us and we are to be His. It is not about us, it is about Him.
David
Thank you for the advice, it could not have come at a better time than this. I seriously will consider what you have shown me, I'll pray about it so maybe I can see what you see if you are right. I'll be humble about this and know that I may be wrong, and if I am, I hope to see the truth before it is too late.
Thank you again, David.
What eles is troubeling you?
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That is all.....
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Itty-Bitty Girl
Advanced Member
Member # 4579
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posted
quote:
Originally posted by David Campbell:
Please stop trying to promote self and come to know God. He created us and we are to be His. It is not about us, it is about Him.
David
Thank you for the advice, it could not have come at a better time than this. I seriously will consider what you have shown me, I'll pray about it so maybe I can see what you see if you are right. I'll be humble about this and know that I may be wrong, and if I am, I hope to see the truth before it is too late.
Thank you again, David.
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becauseHElives
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Member # 87
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posted
quote:
1Cor.4
[5] Therefore judge nothing before the time, until the Lord come, who both will bring to light the hidden things of darkness, and will make manifest the counsels of the hearts: and then shall every man have praise of God.
Amen WildB, those that endure to the end will be saved and them only, that what Yeshua said...
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Strive to enter in at the strait gate:for many, I say unto you will seek to enter in, and shall not be able. ( Luke 13:24 )
Posts: 4578 | From: Southeast Texas | Registered: Jun 2002
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WildB
Moderator
Member # 2917
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posted
1Cor.4
[5] Therefore judge nothing before the time, until the Lord come, who both will bring to light the hidden things of darkness, and will make manifest the counsels of the hearts: and then shall every man have praise of God.
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That is all.....
Posts: 8775 | From: USA, MICHIGAN | Registered: Mar 2004
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Good NewsforAll
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Member # 6156
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posted
Amen!! This is serious stuff. It is part of the Ten Commandments.
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The Pharisees tell us what not to do. Jesus tells us what to do.
Romans 10:15 As it is written, "How beautiful are the feet of those who bring good news!"
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KnowHim
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Member # 1
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posted
quote:
Originally posted by Itty-Bitty Girl:
There is no contradiction; I have understanding. I know exactly what I am talking about and I know exactly what it means to take God’s name in vain; which is to swear a vain oath.
You are WRONG and need to learn that God is God and we are not. What is stated in the below that was posted on the One Year Bible study is correct and not to respect God is to not know Him.
quote:
Originally posted by phillip tidwell:
In one of his recent lessons (Feb. 17?), Dr. Young made the statement that “Jesus is not your ‘buddy’.” He went on to explain how no one should ever be distracted from the fact that Jesus is God and must be respected as such rather than humanized in our own minds. God is God and not human regardless how tempting it may be to engage in anthropomorphism and reduce Him to something we think we can understand or that makes us feel better about whom we are.
Leviticus 16:1 reminds us of the death of Aaron’s two sons because of their disobedience recorded in Leviticus 10:1-3. Mark 7:6-9 records how Jesus was angered by hypocrisy. The anger Jesus displayed in Mark 3:21-30 is much more pronounced and even frightening. These verses may not elicit the same nice warm, comfortable feeling of the God of mercy revealed in the Bible, but can’t be disregarded. I have a tremendous fear both for and of folks who claim Christianity apart from repentance and obedience.
Trying to see how much you can get away with, just shows you really don't know God because if you did you would want to see how much you can do to honor Him and not what you think you can prove you can get away with.
Please stop trying to promote self and come to know God. He created us and we are to be His. It is not about us, it is about Him.
David
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jiggyfly
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Member # 6972
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posted
Thanks for the replies David and Michael. I agree with you David about interpreting scriptures which is why I don't believe in either of the Protestant doctrines of OSAS or NOSAS. Calvinism and Arminianism are named after men for a reason, they are both man's teachings.
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Itty-Bitty Girl
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posted
I believe to swear a vain oath unto the Lord is to take the name of the Lord in vain. It is okay to believe differently, so I will debate the issue no longer.
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Good NewsforAll
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posted
quote:
Originally posted by Itty-Bitty Girl:
To swear a vain oath is to be rude and disrespectful to God in the old testament. In the new testament Jesus says to swear not at all.
to swear a vain oath is something entirely different than cursing out in anger to someone or God. Both are in vain, but different types of acts.
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The Pharisees tell us what not to do. Jesus tells us what to do.
Romans 10:15 As it is written, "How beautiful are the feet of those who bring good news!"
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Itty-Bitty Girl
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posted
To swear a vain oath is to be rude and disrespectful to God in the old testament. In the new testament Jesus says to swear not at all.
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Itty-Bitty Girl
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posted
There is no contradiction; I have understanding. I know exactly what I am talking about and I know exactly what it means to take God’s name in vain; which is to swear a vain oath.
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Good NewsforAll
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posted
quote:
Originally posted by Itty-Bitty Girl:
To say “Godd-----t” or “Jesus Christ” is not to take the Lord’s name in vain, to swear vainly in God’s name is to take the Lord’s name in vain.
![[Eek!]](eek.gif)
You are contradicting yourself.
Definition of vain -
1. To no avail; without success: Our labor is in vain.
2. In an irreverent or disrespectful manner: to take the Lord's name in vain
3.Not yielding the desired outcome; fruitless: a vain attempt.
4. Lacking substance or worth: vain talk.
Do you want to present worthless lack of substance in the presence of God? I don't want to stand before him with nothing other than total respect and purity. Don't want to endanger my salvation.
I wouldn't even say 'Gosh' or 'G**z' in case I might grieve the Holy Spirit.
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The Pharisees tell us what not to do. Jesus tells us what to do.
Romans 10:15 As it is written, "How beautiful are the feet of those who bring good news!"
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Itty-Bitty Girl
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posted
quote:
Originally posted by David Campbell:
Anyone that can’t see using God’s name, as a curse word is wrong can’t know Him as their savior. I can understand how non-believers can do this but someone that says they are a Christian and does this all the time is showing BIG RED flag they have never met Jesus Christ. If they had they would not belittle Him. So many people these days make up their own God and disregard what the bible says. This is called “idolatry” and one of the oldest sins in the bible.
quote:
Originally posted by David Campbell:
God's name is a HOLY name. "... Hallowed be thy name." MATTHEW 6:9b
God's name is NOT a curse word. "... a name which is above every name:" PHILIPPlANS 2:9b
To say “Godd-----t” or “Jesus Christ” is not to take the Lord’s name in vain, to swear vainly in God’s name is to take the Lord’s name in vain.
Vain oaths: It is forbidden to swear vainly, as it says "You shall not take the Name of LORD your God in vain".
There are four types of vain oaths:
1. Swearing that a well-known thing is or is not so (The Sages explain that the third commandment forbids the use of the name of God to validate any type of vain oath: An example for such an oath without validity would be taking an oath pointing at a piece of wood and swearing that this is a piece of wood.)
2. Swearing not to observe a commandment;
3. Swearing to do something that it is not possible to do.
4. Swearing to observe a commandment is not forbidden, but such an oath is not valid.
Read more about it here: http://www.tencommandmentsday.com/read.php?id=82
And here: http://www.tencommandmentsday.com/read.php?id=82
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oneinchrist
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posted
If I may, I would like to add that taking the Lord's name in vain would also include using the Name of the Lord for personal profit.
With love in Christ, Daniel
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KnowHim
Admin
Member # 1
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posted
quote:
Originally posted by Itty-Bitty Girl:
No. You’re definition of taking God’s name in vain is something new that is not in the bible at all, not in the old testament or the new. It’s just not there.
Anyone that can’t see using God’s name, as a curse word is wrong can’t know Him as their savior. I can understand how non-believers can do this but someone that says they are a Christian and does this all the time is showing BIG RED flag they have never met Jesus Christ. If they had they would not belittle Him. So many people these days make up their own God and disregard what the bible says. This is called “idolatry” and one of the oldest sins in the bible.
- - - - - -
The third commandment is often the most memorable because we often hear people using the name of God in vain. We are reminded of the third commandment especially if we work in a secular environment, or we have relatives who show forth their rebellious nature without qualms in the language they use. But in looking closely at the third commandment we will find more than we bargained for. We as Christians break the third commandment more often than any pagan who may be screaming "God D_____t" or "Jesus Christ!"
What does the third commandment say? "Thou shalt not use the name of the Lord thy God in vain; for the Lord will not hold him guiltless who uses His name in vain." What does this commandment principally teach? The third commandment forbids all profaning and abusing of anything whereby God makes Himself known. (Malachi 1:6-8; Lev. 20:3; 19:12; Matthew 5:34-37; Isa. 52:5.) It is not simply a matter of cursing or using the name God or Jesus vainly in that way. It is true that God's name is not to be used in that manner. We are not to say "God bless you" frivolously when someone sneezes, or say "Oh my God" when we are excited or ecstatic. Truly, we use His name in vain when we say those kinds of things. But the use of God's name is hardly restricted just to language. The commandment shows us how to worship God aright, as God designs the first four commandments in this way. The third commandment is rightly divided into two parts. The first part is the explicit command that we should not take His name in vain. That is obvious. The second part of the command is not so obvious. It is the practical implications of the right use of His name, namely, that we should honor and revere His name every time we use it.
Read this entire article at:
http://www.apuritansmind.com/Tracts%20and%20Writings/NameOfGodInVain.htm
God's name is a HOLY name. "... Hallowed be thy name." MATTHEW 6:9b
God's name is NOT a curse word. "... a name which is above every name:" PHILIPPlANS 2:9b
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KnowHim
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Member # 1
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posted
quote:
Originally posted by Itty-Bitty Girl:
No. You’re definition of taking God’s name in vain is something new that is not in the bible at all, not in the old testament or the new. It’s just not there.
Anyone that can’t see using God’s name, as a curse word is wrong can’t know Him as their savior. I can understand how non-believers can do this but someone that says they are a Christian and does this all the time is showing BIG RED flag they have never met Jesus Christ. If they had they would not belittle Him. So many people these days make up their own God and disregard what the bible says. This is called “idolatry” and one of the old sins in the bible.
- - - - - -
The third commandment is often the most memorable because we often hear people using the name of God in vain. We are reminded of the third commandment especially if we work in a secular environment, or we have relatives who show forth their rebellious nature without qualms in the language they use. But in looking closely at the third commandment we will find more than we bargained for. We as Christians break the third commandment more often than any pagan who may be screaming "God D_____t" or "Jesus Christ!"
What does the third commandment say? "Thou shalt not use the name of the Lord thy God in vain; for the Lord will not hold him guiltless who uses His name in vain." What does this commandment principally teach? The third commandment forbids all profaning and abusing of anything whereby God makes Himself known. (Malachi 1:6-8; Lev. 20:3; 19:12; Matthew 5:34-37; Isa. 52:5.) It is not simply a matter of cursing or using the name God or Jesus vainly in that way. It is true that God's name is not to be used in that manner. We are not to say "God bless you" frivolously when someone sneezes, or say "Oh my God" when we are excited or ecstatic. Truly, we use His name in vain when we say those kinds of things. But the use of God's name is hardly restricted just to language. The commandment shows us how to worship God aright, as God designs the first four commandments in this way. The third commandment is rightly divided into two parts. The first part is the explicit command that we should not take His name in vain. That is obvious. The second part of the command is not so obvious. It is the practical implications of the right use of His name, namely, that we should honor and revere His name every time we use it.
Read this entire article at:
http://www.apuritansmind.com/Tracts%20and%20Writings/NameOfGodInVain.htm
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Good NewsforAll
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posted
I haven't heard your story before lonlesol. My heart and prayers go out to you. ![[Frown]](frown.gif) You must have suffered a lot of pain to go through this bitter loss of a child's love. The feeling is unimaginable because my daughter lives right next door, and my heart is thoroughly delighted every time she pops in to say "Hello".
I pray that some day you will gain that relationship with your daughter. God is in the miracle-working business.
Every time I see my daughter coming in the door it will remind me to pray for you. ![[Prayer]](graemlins/prayer.gif)
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The Pharisees tell us what not to do. Jesus tells us what to do.
Romans 10:15 As it is written, "How beautiful are the feet of those who bring good news!"
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lonlesol
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posted
For a father to manipulate the mind of a now 16 year old kid to declare to her mother that she has made her choice and then leave with her father is purely outrageous!...
I was called a Mormon and a Jehovah Witness by some of his family members!...which I am not!...I have been screamed at, and been accused of being mentally ill by my 16 year old daughter for believing in God!...
He has brought home one of his friends, a Christian friend, to convince me to stop reading and studying the Bible...but of course, that friend told him to repent and let me continue on doing what I was doing, which was growing in God's Word...a few months later, he left me for another woman with our daughter...he says that he believes in God and Jesus, but in his own way, which in his mind should be kept personal and never shared, just like politics should...
Our daughter used to believe in Jesus, but now, I am not so sure anymore...
Matthew 18:6
But if anyone causes one of these little ones who believe in me to sin, it would be better for him to have a large millstone hung around his neck and to be drowned in the depths of the sea.
Matthew 18:14
In the same way your Father in heaven is not willing that any of these little ones should be lost.
Mark 9:42
[Causing to Sin] "And if anyone causes one of these little ones who believe in me to sin, it would be better for him to be thrown into the sea with a large millstone tied around his neck.
Luke 17:2
It would be better for him to be thrown into the sea with a millstone tied around his neck than for him to cause one of these little ones to sin.
I know that I should forgive him for this but to be honest, I find it hard...I don't see my daughter anymore, she won't talk to me...I can't help but think about it every time that I am alone in my house after I get home from work...I was so convinced that if I kept reading and studying the Bible would help him, our daughter and myself to live a life that would be more pleasant to the Lord but it backfired on me...
I apologize for bringing this up again...
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Good NewsforAll
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posted
quote:
Originally posted by lonlesol:
If so, I am afraid that I know of some people that have lost it!...
I am afraid that I have know of at least a couple of very hardened hearts. To me the Holy Spirit would have been crowded out of their lives, thus contaminating their souls.
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The Pharisees tell us what not to do. Jesus tells us what to do.
Romans 10:15 As it is written, "How beautiful are the feet of those who bring good news!"
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lonlesol
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posted
quote:
posted by Good NewsforAll:
Adam lost his salvation.
hmmm...I would not jump to that conclusion...Adam might have repented, only God knows that...I can't believe that people may completely LOOSE their salvation?...could they?... ![[Confused]](confused.gif)
If so, I am afraid that I know of some people that have lost it!...
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Good NewsforAll
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posted
quote:
Originally posted by Itty-Bitty Girl:
Back in the bible’s time those words were not cusswords; they were non-offensive.
They are still not cusswords, unless they are used in the improper context.
quote:
Originally posted by Good NewsforAll:
To take the Lord God's name in vain means to utter his name,but not mean it in a praying fashion. We often hear 'Oh God' but people aren't' really praying to God. Often people will say 'Jesus' but say it in a cursing and disrespectul way, not really speaking to him.
quote:
From Itty-Bitty: No. You’re definition of taking God’s name in vain is something new that is not in the bible at all, not in the old testament or the new. It’s just not there.
This certainly is nothing new. I hope you don't use these words unless you are sincerely and prayerfuly speaking to God. You are swearing if you don't.
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The Pharisees tell us what not to do. Jesus tells us what to do.
Romans 10:15 As it is written, "How beautiful are the feet of those who bring good news!"
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Itty-Bitty Girl
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posted
quote:
Originally posted by Good NewsforAll:
The way these words are used in the Bible isn't cussing.
I am not looking at the word in context; I am looking directly at the word itself. Is a** a cussword itself? Yes. Is a** a cussword used in biblical context? No. Back in the bible’s time those words were not cusswords; they were non-offensive. Man made it so that now they are cusswords. God did not make them cusswords. The words are not really bad after all, man called them bad words, but God did not.
quote:
Originally posted by Good NewsforAll:
Cussing is when you utter these words in blasphemous anger.
What about when you use the words without blasphemous anger? Is it still cussing?
quote:
Originally posted by Good NewsforAll:
To take the Lord God's name in vain means to utter his name,but not mean it in a praying fashion. We often hear 'Oh God' but people aren't' really praying to God. Often people will say 'Jesus' but say it in a cursing and disrespectul way, not really speaking to him.
No. You’re definition of taking God’s name in vain is something new that is not in the bible at all, not in the old testament or the new. It’s just not there.
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Good NewsforAll
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posted
The way these words are used in the Bible isn't cussing. Cussing is when you utter these words in blasphemous anger. The 'c' and 'a' words aren't used the same way we may use them. They mean something entirely different.
To take the Lord God's name in vain means to utter his name,but not mean it in a praying fashion. We often hear 'Oh God' but people aren't' really praying to God. Often people will say 'Jesus' but say it in a cursing and disrespectful way, not really speaking to him.
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The Pharisees tell us what not to do. Jesus tells us what to do.
Romans 10:15 As it is written, "How beautiful are the feet of those who bring good news!"
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Itty-Bitty Girl
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posted
quote:
Originally posted by Good NewsforAll:
Proof please. Not by Jesus that's for sure.
“Hell” is a cussword, so is “a**”, “damn” and even c**k; Jesus uses all four so called Bad Words.
Hell
Matthew 5:22 (King James Version)
But I say unto you, That whosoever is angry with his brother without a cause shall be in danger of the judgment: and whosoever shall say to his brother, Raca, shall be in danger of the council: but whosoever shall say, Thou fool, shall be in danger of hell fire.
A**
Matthew 21:1-2 (King James Version)
And when they drew nigh unto Jerusalem, and were come to Bethphage, unto the mount of Olives, then sent Jesus two disciples,
Saying unto them, Go into the village over against you, and straightway ye shall find an a** tied, and a colt with her: loose them, and bring them unto me.
Damn
Mark 16:15-16 (King James Version)
And he said unto them, Go ye into all the world, and preach the gospel to every creature.
He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned.
C**k
Matthew 26:34 (King James Version)
Jesus said unto him, Verily I say unto thee, That this night, before the c**k crow, thou shalt deny me thrice.
You see the words are not really bad after all, man called them bad words, but God does not. You can look at the history of any cussword and see that the word originally was non-offensive, even the N word.
quote:
Originally posted by Good NewsforAll:
Deuteronomy 5:11 Thou shalt not take the name of the LORD thy God in vain: for the LORD will not hold him guiltless that taketh his name in vain.
This is to the person who performs an oath unto the lord and then does the opposite of what they said they would (swearing an oath to tell the truth in the name of God and bearing a false witness).
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Good NewsforAll
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posted
quote:
Originally posted by Itty-Bitty Girl:
Cusswords are written in the bible.
Proof please. Not by Jesus that's for sure.
Deuteronomy 5:11 Thou shalt not take the name of the LORD thy God in vain: for the LORD will not hold him guiltless that taketh his name in vain.
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The Pharisees tell us what not to do. Jesus tells us what to do.
Romans 10:15 As it is written, "How beautiful are the feet of those who bring good news!"
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Itty-Bitty Girl
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quote:
Originally posted by TheBibleSender:
quote:
Originally posted by Michael Harrison:
And to add to what becausehelives said:
It says that no man can pluck them from His hand. That doesn't include one's self. You still have a free will and can sin against the Holy Spirit. If you have not the fear of God, you can blunder, even reject said blessing, for the desire for sin.
Come now. It does say no man that would include self. It doesn't say no man except ones self it say no man. If salvation is by grace which it is to say that you must keep yourself saved is a disgrace to the cleansing power of the blood of Christ.
Say you are driving down the road and out in front of your car runs a deer. You swerve to miss the deer and cuss. Before you can ask for forgivness you hit a tree and die. Do you honestly believe that you will go to hell? God bless. ![[Smile]](smile.gif)
Is it a sin to cuss? If so, where in the bible does it say this? Cusswords are written in the bible.
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oneinchrist
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posted
If one is in the will of God, they will sense a leading by the Holy Spirit in their life....this sense that God is directing your life will cause your heart to know with more confidence that you are in Christ. Personally, I believe we all want that assurance so I do not know why anyone would want to turn away. We really need to examine scripture and context of scripture to see what it means to "depart from the faith" or to "fall away" or go into "apostacy". What mans role(God's expectation of us)is in salvation is important because if our end is not met then there really is no covenant established at all (while we may think there is). I believe that I can say with all conviction by the Word of God that if we have not truely repented and placed a genuine trust in the Lord Jesus that we will not be saved. God will not cast anyone away who humbles himself before His mighty and loving hand. I will put my 2cents worth opinion in .....if a man can fall away it would not be because God is not capable to keep him, it would have to do with man's breaking of the covenant....remember that faith must be a continuing faith....which means we continue with our eyes fixed on Christ, the author and finisher of our faith. The truth of the matter is that if a man does not obey the gospel that most likely he does not have a genuine trust in the Lord. Who then is He obeying? Who is His Lord? Even though a man is not saved by obedience (works of the flesh), a lack of response in obedience(which begins in the heart and manifests in the flesh) to the clear teachings and commands of Christ may reveal a lack of true genuine faith. This does not mean that man never sins though. But a man must understand repentance. Repentance at its core means "to turn away from sin" and "turn to God". We turn from sin and a position of rebellion and turn to God and His will all "in light of the gospel message". If that does not happen I truely believe that things are not agreeable with God.
With love in Christ, Daniel
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Good NewsforAll
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posted
There's nothing in that scripture saying that such people are 'sealed.'
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The Pharisees tell us what not to do. Jesus tells us what to do.
Romans 10:15 As it is written, "How beautiful are the feet of those who bring good news!"
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becauseHElives
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posted
quote:
What if, when you turn your back on God, your heart becomes so hardened that you don't asked to be cleansed??
The Apostle Paul spoke of just such people you refer to!
They knew Yahweh but they resisted His love to bring them back to repentance.
Do not resist the Holy Spirit…
Romans 1: 21-32
Because that, when they knew God, they glorified him not as God, neither were thankful; but became vain in their imaginations, and their foolish heart was darkened.
Professing themselves to be wise, they became fools,
And changed the glory of the uncorruptible God into an image made like to corruptible man, and to birds, and fourfooted beasts, and creeping things.
Wherefore God also gave them up to uncleanness through the lusts of their own hearts, to dishonour their own bodies between themselves:
Who changed the truth of God into a lie, and worshipped and served the creature more than the Creator, who is blessed for ever. Amen.
For this cause God gave them up unto vile affections: for even their women did change the natural use into that which is against nature:
And likewise also the men, leaving the natural use of the woman, burned in their lust one toward another; men with men working that which is unseemly, and receiving in themselves that recompence of their error which was meet.
And even as they did not like to retain God in their knowledge, God gave them over to a reprobate mind, to do those things which are not convenient;
Being filled with all unrighteousness, fornication, wickedness, covetousness, maliciousness; full of envy, murder, debate, deceit, malignity; whisperers,
Backbiters, haters of God, despiteful, proud, boasters, inventors of evil things, disobedient to parents,
Without understanding, covenant breakers, without natural affection, implacable, unmerciful:
Who knowing the judgment of God, that they which commit such things are worthy of death, not only do the same, but have pleasure in them that do them.
Turning your back on Yahweh does not happen over night, it take much neglect of personal relationship with the Lord to get to a reprobate stage!
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Strive to enter in at the strait gate:for many, I say unto you will seek to enter in, and shall not be able. ( Luke 13:24 )
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TheBibleSender
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posted
quote:
Originally posted by Michael Harrison:
And to add to what becausehelives said:
It says that no man can pluck them from His hand. That doesn't include one's self. You still have a free will and can sin against the Holy Spirit. If you have not the fear of God, you can blunder, even reject said blessing, for the desire for sin.
Come now. It does say no man that would include self. It doesn't say no man except ones self it say no man. If salvation is by grace which it is to say that you must keep yourself saved is a disgrace to the cleansing power of the blood of Christ.
Say you are driving down the road and out in front of your car runs a deer. You swerve to miss the deer and cuss. Before you can ask for forgivness you hit a tree and die. Do you honestly believe that you will go to hell? God bless.
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We need used bibles. PM me for more info
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Good NewsforAll
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posted
quote:
Originally posted by becauseHElives:
You can never lose your Salvation but you can neglect it to the point you turn your back on Yahweh and just completely go back into sin and never return to your first love, you forget that repentance is not a one time deal but a life line to the Throne of Yahweh because of the Blood Yeshua gave to purchase you and it (the Blood) is on the MERCY SEAT in Yahweh's Presence day and night just waiting to cleanse all who will continually ask!
What if, when you turn your back on God, your heart beomes so hardened that you don't asked to be cleansed??
Genesis 1:26 And God said, Let us make man in our image, after our likeness: and let them have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over the cattle, and over all the earth, and over every creeping thing that creepeth upon the earth.
Genesis 5:2 Male and female created he them; and blessed them, and called their name Adam, in the day when they were created.
Romans 5:12 When Adam sinned, sin entered the world. Adam’s sin brought death, so death spread to everyone, for everyone sinned.
Adam lost his salvation.
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The Pharisees tell us what not to do. Jesus tells us what to do.
Romans 10:15 As it is written, "How beautiful are the feet of those who bring good news!"
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oneinchrist
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posted
Hi Jiggyfly,
I believe that the most reliable way to arrive at credible conclusions is to compare scripture with scripture. Instead of having the dissension that we have in confessing christians by virtue of the fact that some like to cling to men's interpretations of scripture and camp around "favorite" scriptures we can obtain unity in the faith by discussing "seemingly" opposing scriptures and reasoning together based on scriptural truth how it is that the "seemingly" opposing scriptures indeed co-exist in harmony with no contradiction to God's word or God's character. We need to be skeptical of someone who takes just one or two verses to support a particular interpretation.
With love in Christ, Daniel
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Michael Harrison
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posted
I know almost nothing about Calvinism; but what i do know makes it interesting to hear, that Calvinism follows OSAS, and holds that only a preselected sect are reconciled (With the emphasis here on OSAS). What i do know about Calvanism, (which some accuse me of, rightly or wrongly i do not know) is not consistent with such doctrine. Perhaps this tells me that I am not Calvanist.
No matter!
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becauseHElives
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posted
Hello jiggyfly,
I believe the problem you speak of arises anytime we try to separate the whole of Yahweh’s word.
Yahweh is sovereign, but because Yahweh is sovereign that does not absolve mankind of responsibility.
2 Peter 1:20-21 (Amplified Bible)
[Yet] first [you must] understand this, that no prophecy of Scripture is [a matter] of any personal or private or special interpretation (loosening, solving).
For no prophecy ever originated because some man willed it [to do so--it never came by human impulse], but men spoke from God who were borne along (moved and impelled) by the Holy Spirit.
The apostle Peter warned that there are teachings in the inspired writings of Paul "which they that are unlearned and unstable wrest [distort], as they do also the other scriptures, unto their own destruction" (2 Peter 3:16, )
This verse tells us that mishandling the Word of God can be very dangerous. Indeed, mishandling the Word of God is a "path" to destruction.
Contrary to the practices of some false teachers in Corinth, the apostle Paul assured his readers that he faithfully handled the Word of God (2 Corinthians 4:2). Paul admonished young Timothy to follow his example: "Study to show thyself approved unto God, a workman that needeth not to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth" (2 Timothy 2:15,
Only by the Holy Spirit leading and guiding will a man or woman find Truth and only the Truth will set you free.
I because of Truth, find the Calvinist and Armenians’ to be in grave error.
There is no formula for knowing Yahweh!
Just as there is know other than intimate relationship for a husband and wife to know each other, neither is there any other way for the Born Again Believer to know Yahweh than intimacy.
All the knowledge of Yahweh in the world will not do any individual any benefit on that appointed day they stand before Yahweh.
People have not changed in all the recorded period of history. People want religion, people want someone else to tell them what Yahweh requires of them.
Yeshua said few would be saved, Yeshua understood how few would choose the straight and narrow. Yeshua understood how many would choose the riches of this world over Eternal Life.
Moses had a choice! All the riches of Egypt, in the house of Pharaoh or to suffer affliction with the people of God,
Hebrews 11:24-29
By faith Moses, when he was come to years, refused to be called the son of Pharaoh's daughter; Choosing rather to suffer affliction with the people of God, than to enjoy the pleasures of sin for a season; Esteeming the reproach of Christ greater riches than the treasures in Egypt: for he had respect unto the recompense of the reward. By faith he forsook Egypt, not fearing the wrath of the king: for he endured, as seeing him who is invisible. Through faith he kept the Passover, and the sprinkling of blood, lest he that destroyed the firstborn should touch them. By faith they passed through the Red sea as by dry land: which the Egyptians assaying to do were drowned.
Salvation is a choice we make!
Not a one time choice and I am home free but the True child of Yahweh chooses every day.
Luke 9: 23-24
Then he said to them all: "If anyone would come after me, he must deny himself and take up his cross daily and follow me. For whoever wants to save his life will lose it, but whoever loses his life for me will save it. What good is it for a man to gain the whole world, and yet lose or forfeit his very self? If anyone is ashamed of me and my words, the Son of Man will be ashamed of him when he comes in his glory and in the glory of the Father and of the holy angels."
Is that just in my copy of Scripture or is it in yours also…..
“take up his cross daily”
Is your love affair with Yahweh just a today I love you but tomorrow I will do my own thing.
If people would quite listening to other people and start listening to the voice of Yahweh the Church would again become the Light it is intended to be instead of just another form of religion.
Instead of superimposing a meaning on the scriptural text, the interpreter should seek to discover the author's intended meaning (the only true meaning).
One must recognize that what a passage means is fixed by the author and is not subject to alteration by readers.
Meaning is determined by the author (Yahweh); it is discovered by the readers (seeker of Truth).
quote:
“Look! There is the Lamb of God who takes away the sin of the world!
This needs no interpretation… Yeshua is the lamb of Yahweh, His Blood is sufficient to remove all the sins ever committed on this earth by all its inhabitance!
quote:
Romans 5:18
Therefore as by the offence of one judgment came upon all men to condemnation; even so by the righteousness of one the free gift came upon all men unto justification of life.
Again I see nothing that needs interpreting…
I did nothing to be lost , I can do nothing to be Saved except receive the free gift of Yeshua, repent of my sin nature I was born with, except the sin free nature of Yeshua and walk therein everyday there after.
quote:
1Corinthians 15:21
For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ shall all be made alive.
In Yeshua shall all be made alive…
In Yeshua according to the whole of scripture if you abide in Him you have Eternal Life.
You must daily abide in the source and supply of your life, in Christ I live, I move, I have my being…
Outside of Yeshua there is only death because of what Adam has done.
quote:
Colossians 1:18-20
18 And he is the head of the body, the church: who is the beginning, the firstborn from the dead; that in all things he might have the preeminence. 19 For it pleased the Father that in him should all fullness dwell; 20 and, having made peace through the blood of his cross, by him to reconcile all things unto himself; by him, I say, whether they be things in earth, or things in heaven.
This scripture just plainly states that Yeshua is all in all, for everyone and everything, in Heaven and in earth.
I hope I made myself clear if not, ask and I will try again.
Love dale
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Strive to enter in at the strait gate:for many, I say unto you will seek to enter in, and shall not be able. ( Luke 13:24 )
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jiggyfly
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posted
quote:
Originally posted by becauseHElives:
jiggyfly , please clarify your question?
Protestant Christianity is divided into two distinct groups Calvinism and Arminianism or OSAS and NOSAS. Calvinism or OSAS holds that only a preselected sect are reconciled while Arminianism or NOSAS holds that reconciliation is offered to all mankind but not all of mankind will be reconciled.
Most Christians are faced with having to decide between the two and are taught that because they appear to be opposites that the truth has to rest in one or the other. While the truth is that they cannot both be right, it is very possible that they both are wrong. The two differ on who can be recipients of God's reconciliation through His Son Jesus Christ but the two agree that not everyone will be reconciled. So my question is how each explains the scriptures( the ones I posted) and fits them in with their doctrine.
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Michael Harrison
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posted
OnQuote! "How would you fit these scriptures into your doctrine of OSAS or NOSAS?
Romans 5:18
Therefore as by the offence of one judgment came upon all men to condemnation; even so by the righteousness of one the free gift came upon all men unto justification of life." Quoteover!
![[Cross]](graemlins/cross.gif) That it came upon all men is limited to 'all men who would'. There is no salvation without submission to His will, surrender of their life, and of their person.
OnQuote! "1Corinthians 15:21
For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ shall all be made alive." Quoteover!
The key here is the expression "In Christ." But you say, isn't it a matter of, you are saved, or you are not saved, just like that? Well! Is there a 'degree' of being in Christ. Yes! I suppose there is. I more than suppose. There is a degree. Yet, you are saved, or you are not,(yet not sealed until passing the final mark).
Here is where the problem comes in. It is so hard to define it, that I will just refer to it as a caution; and I base it on the parable of the talents where the man had been given, what for illustration purposes, is equal to life, as represented by the talent. (I call it a caution to indicate not to take for granted anything concerning your salvation.) This man lost his! It says so right there. In the end it was taken from him and given to someone else. So the important thing is not to take it for granted. No one can say explicitly, perhaps, that you will lose your salvation, but the warnings are in the word, along with all of those encouraging promises. You have to see both.
Onquote! "Colossians 1:18-20
18 And he is the head of the body, the church: who is the beginning, the firstborn from the dead; that in all things he might have the preeminence. 19 For it pleased the Father that in him should all fulness dwell; 20 and, having made peace through the blood of his cross, by him to reconcile all things unto himself; by him, I say, whether they be things in earth, or things in heaven. " Quoteover!
Are you reconciled. One should know. Then, not to take it for granted, they should still search it out. Are they satisfied that they are reconciled to His satisfaction. Is there a defining point, something that you understand, i.e. recognize, which makes one to know that they are in His graces. Here is a clue borrowed from another scripture, a little out of context perhaps, but not really. If your heart condemns you not, then you know that you have what you ask of Him. In this case, we are talking about the person of Salvation. Jesus Christ.
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becauseHElives
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posted
jiggyfly , please clarify your question?
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Strive to enter in at the strait gate:for many, I say unto you will seek to enter in, and shall not be able. ( Luke 13:24 )
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jiggyfly
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posted
John 1:29
The next day John saw Jesus coming toward him and said, “Look! There is the Lamb of God who takes away the sin of the world!
I am not an advocate of either OSAS or NOSAS. I find that even though they are opposed in some areas, they share some of the same error. I asked this same question in another thread and didn't get any response, so let me try again here.
How would you fit these scriptures into your doctrine of OSAS or NOSAS?
Romans 5:18
Therefore as by the offence of one judgment came upon all men to condemnation; even so by the righteousness of one the free gift came upon all men unto justification of life.
1Corinthians 15:21
For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ shall all be made alive.
Colossians 1:18-20
18 And he is the head of the body, the church: who is the beginning, the firstborn from the dead; that in all things he might have the preeminence. 19 For it pleased the Father that in him should all fulness dwell; 20 and, having made peace through the blood of his cross, by him to reconcile all things unto himself; by him, I say, whether they be things in earth, or things in heaven.
My post seems to be overlooked again so I have reposted it and hope that some will respond.
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oneinchrist
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posted
Hi again Biblesender,
Sorry, I did'nt notice at first....maybe just because I was speed reading a little....you did speak about the need to repent. Please disregard my question.
With love in Christ, Daniel
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Michael Harrison
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posted
And to add to what becausehelives said:
John.10
[28] And I give unto them eternal life; and they shall never perish, neither shall any man pluck them out of my hand.
[29] My Father, which gave them me, is greater than all; and no man is able to pluck them out of my Father's hand.
It says that no man can pluck them from His hand. That doesn't include one's self. You still have a free will and can sin against the Holy Spirit. If you have not the fear of God, you can blunder, even reject said blessing, for the desire for sin.
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becauseHElives
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posted
You can never lose your Salvation but you can neglect it to the point you turn your back on Yahweh and just completely go back into sin and never return to your first love, you forget that repentance is not a one time deal but a life line to the Throne of Yahweh because of the Blood Yeshua gave to purchase you and it (the Blood) is on the MERCY SEAT in Yahweh's Presence day and night just waiting to cleanse all who will continually ask!
You can not neglect the Precious Blood of Yeshua and be Eternally Saved!!!!!!
Hebrews 2:3
How shall we escape, if we neglect so great salvation; {2} which at the first began to be spoken by the Lord, and was confirmed unto us by them that heard him;
(2) If the neglect and disobedience of the word spoken by angels was not left unpunished, much less will it be tolerated if we neglect the gospel which the Lord of angels preached, and was confirmed by the voice of the apostles, and with so many signs and wonders from heaven, and especially with great and mighty working of the Holy Spirit.
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Strive to enter in at the strait gate:for many, I say unto you will seek to enter in, and shall not be able. ( Luke 13:24 )
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oneinchrist
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posted
Hi Biblesender,
Its nice to meet you. Welcome to BBS. I read your post and you speak about the basis of salvation. I was concerned about something I did not see in your post.......the message of repentance. What is your position on "repentance?"
With love in Christ, Daniel
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jiggyfly
Advanced Member
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posted
John 1:29
The next day John saw Jesus coming toward him and said, “Look! There is the Lamb of God who takes away the sin of the world!
I am not an advocate of either OSAS or NOSAS. I find that even though they are opposed in some areas, they share some of the same error. I asked this same question in another thread and didn't get any response, so let me try again here.
How would you fit these scriptures into your doctrine of OSAS or NOSAS?
Romans 5:18
Therefore as by the offence of one judgment came upon all men to condemnation; even so by the righteousness of one the free gift came upon all men unto justification of life.
1Corinthians 15:21
For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ shall all be made alive.
Colossians 1:18-20
18 And he is the head of the body, the church: who is the beginning, the firstborn from the dead; that in all things he might have the preeminence. 19 For it pleased the Father that in him should all fulness dwell; 20 and, having made peace through the blood of his cross, by him to reconcile all things unto himself; by him, I say, whether they be things in earth, or things in heaven.
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Good NewsforAll
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posted
quote:
Originally posted by WildB:
Eph.4
[30] And grieve not the holy Spirit of God, whereby ye are sealed unto the day of redemption.
Paul is talking to believers in Eph. 4 & 5. Eph. 5 goes on to say -
Eph. 5:3But fornication, and all uncleanness, or covetousness, let it not be once named among you, as becometh saints;
4Neither filthiness, nor foolish talking, nor jesting, which are not convenient: but rather giving of thanks.
5For this ye know, that no whoremonger, nor unclean person, nor covetous man, who is an idolater, hath any inheritance in the kingdom of Christ and of God.
6Let no man deceive you with vain words: for because of these things cometh the wrath of God upon the children of disobedience.
Christians can be led into deception by the enemy.
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The Pharisees tell us what not to do. Jesus tells us what to do.
Romans 10:15 As it is written, "How beautiful are the feet of those who bring good news!"
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WildB
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posted
Eph.4
[30] And grieve not the holy Spirit of God, whereby ye are sealed unto the day of redemption.
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That is all.....
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Good NewsforAll
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posted
Where in the Bible does it say "Once sealed always sealed."?
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The Pharisees tell us what not to do. Jesus tells us what to do.
Romans 10:15 As it is written, "How beautiful are the feet of those who bring good news!"
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WildB
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posted
quote:
Originally posted by Michael Harrison:
You said that once before. However, stated this way it is more correct. "You can sin a sin in which your eternal life is shortened."
And I will say it again and again and again...
ONCE SEALED ALWAYS SEALED
Stated your way says their is no eternal life...
It is clear to all that the Bible teaches different.
John.3
[15] That whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have eternal life.
Stop your sillyness.
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That is all.....
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