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Posted by helpforhomeschoolers (Member # 15) on
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Dr. Billy Graham: The Tragedy of A Compromised Ministry
By Ingrid Schlueter
***Ingrid Schlueter has been producer and co-host of the Crosstalk Radio Talk Show on the VCY America Radio Network for 18 years. She is author of numerous articles on current issues and is a regular columnist for Wisconsin Christian News. She has also authored, Parent Police: The UN Wants Your Children.****
The American media came out in force for what was hailed as the last crusade for 86-year-old Billy Graham this month. Called the most influential Protestant evangelist of modern times, Graham is said to have preached to 210 million people in 185 countries. Newsweek’s headline was, “A Prophet in Winter” as he came to New York. Associated Press called him, “An American Icon” and on and on the praise went leading up to the crusade.
But many evangelical Christians watching Graham’s New York crusade on television gave a collective gasp Saturday night (June 25) when 86-year-old Billy Graham brought former President Bill Clinton to the platform where Clinton informed the audience, “I love this man”. Graham took the opportunity to announce that he was a lifelong Democrat and then gave a veiled endorsement to Hillary Clinton in the audience. It was a sad moment in the long ministry of Dr. Billy Graham. The question that should haunt all of us who say we follow Christ is this: How could a man who has spent his life traveling the globe to bring the message of Jesus stoop so low? This was Bill Clinton, the same President who vetoed bills five times that would have banned the butchery of partial birth abortion. Does Billy Graham even grasp the magnitude of the slaughter that has taken place in this land for the last 32 years, a slaughter justified and defended by Bill Clinton and his wife and their Democratic Party? This was Bill Clinton, the man whose lust converted the Oval Office into a cheap brothel and who desecrated the Office of the President by his lies and his treachery? Yet this is the man Dr. Graham chose to bring to the platform to close out his storied ministry career.
It is not just Billy Graham’s unconditional statement of support for the party of abortion and gay rights that should be cause for weeping. It is his denial of the true Gospel that should break our hearts. It was May 31, 1997 that Graham appeared on the Hour of Power with Robert Schuller and the following exchange took place. This is an exact transcript.
SCHULLER: Tell me, what do you think is the future of Christianity?
GRAHAM: Well, Christianity and being a true believer -- you know, I think there's the Body of Christ. This comes from all the Christian groups around the world, outside the Christian groups. I think everybody that loves Christ, or knows Christ, whether they're conscious of it or not, they're members of the Body of Christ ... I think James answered that, the Apostle James in the first council in Jerusalem, when he said that God's purpose for this age is to call out a people for His name. And that's what God is doing today, He's calling people out of the world for His name, whether they come from the Muslim world, or the Buddhist world, or the Christian world, or the non-believing world, they are members of the Body of Christ, because they've been called by God. They may not even know the name of Jesus, but they know in their hearts that they need something that they don't have, and they turn to the only light that they have, and I think they are saved, and that they're going to be with us in heaven."
"SCHULLER: What, what I hear you saying, that it's possible for Jesus Christ to come into human hearts and soul and life, even if they've been born in darkness and have never had exposure to the Bible. Is that a correct interpretation of what you're saying?
GRAHAM: Yes, it is, because I believe that. I've met people in various parts of the world in tribal situations, that they have never seen a Bible or heard about a Bible, and never heard of Jesus, but they've believed in their hearts that there was a God, and they've tried to live a life that was quite apart from the surrounding community in which they lived."
These remarks by Graham illustrate how tragically far he has come from the faithful message of salvation by faith in Jesus Christ alone. If what Dr. Graham said is true, than foreign missionaries who have sacrificed their lives to share the name and message of Christ with the “lost” could have saved themselves a great deal of trouble. If God sovereignly calls people out for salvation outside of His own Son, it makes a mockery of Christ’s suffering and sacrificial, substitutionary atonement for our sins. Further, it renders absurd God’s Word itself which clearly teaches salvation through faith in Jesus Christ alone. (2 Peter 2:20-21, John 10:7-9, John 14:6)
On Sunday night following the New York Crusade, Graham appeared on Larry King where he announced that in his “early” years he preached Hell and damnation. Now, he said, he prefers to preach on love. Has Hell ceased to exist because Billy Graham prefers to talk about love? Are the words of Christ recorded in Scripture that warn repeatedly about Hell and the Lake of Fire to be downplayed because the man called “America’s Pastor” has changed his ministry philosophy? Should people stake their eternal destiny on some undocumented act of God that will allow them to enter heaven as a Muslim or a Buddhist because Billy Graham says so on the Hour of Power?
The sad fall from truth by Dr. Billy Graham is a sober warning to all of us. God’s Word instructs us to be Bereans. Like those early Christians, we are to search the Scriptures and we are to compare all that we hear with the unchanging, inspired Word of God. Following after a man, no matter how much good he has done at some point in his ministerial career, is risky business. The Apostle Paul warned repeatedly in the Epistles about those who would change and subvert the true Gospel. He said,
But though we, or an angel from heaven, preach any other gospel unto you than that which we have preached unto you, let him be accursed. As we said before, so say I now again, if any man preach any other gospel unto you than that ye have received, let him be accursed. For do I now persuade men, or God? or do I seek to please men? for if I yet pleased men, I should not be the servant of Christ. (Galatians 1:8-10) KJV
God’s Word is plain. You cannot have the accolades of a sinful world and the approval of Jesus Christ. You cannot sup in the halls of power by toning down your Gospel message and expect to be found faithful. Dr. Graham has sadly chosen a path that deviates from the narrow one laid down by Christ himself. We would do well to learn from his example.
Once to every man and nation, comes the moment to decide,
In the strife of truth with falsehood, for the good or evil side;
Some great cause, some great decision, offering each the bloom or blight,
And the choice goes by forever, ’twixt that darkness and that light.
Then to side with truth is noble, when we share her wretched crust,
Ere her cause bring fame and profit, and ’tis prosperous to be just;
Then it is the brave man chooses while the coward stands aside,
Till the multitude make virtue of the faith they had denied.
By the light of burning martyrs, Christ, Thy bleeding feet we track,
Toiling up new Calv’ries ever with the cross that turns not back;
New occasions teach new duties, time makes ancient good uncouth,
They must upward still and onward, who would keep abreast of truth.
Though the cause of evil prosper, yet the truth alone is strong;
Though her portion be the scaffold, and upon the throne be wrong;
Yet that scaffold sways the future, and behind the dim unknown,
Standeth God within the shadow, keeping watch above His own.
James Russell Lowell
Posted by TEXASGRANDMA (Member # 847) on
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Along time fan of Rev. Billy Graham, it breaks my heart that he did not use this last opportunity to reach out to lost souls with the whole truth of the Gospel. Better to be rewarded in Heaven for the truth then to be rewarded on earth for compromising the truth.
May God have mercy on this man and all of us.
betty
Posted by Eduardo Grequi (Member # 3984) on
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Billy Graham is a man of many facets. I remember meeting him at the beginning of my military career (1976) and again in the middle of my career (1992?).Just as he does, I do believe that their are true believers in each denominations of christian faiths and that man in general do have a desire to find God.I believe (in the book of Romans if I am not mistaken) that God has written in man's heart a desire to seek Him. When I first heard Dr. Graham preached the gospel, it was to the point and refreshing to hear the gospel. AND when I did hear him years later again in San Antonio, TX- His message seemed to have soften, however it was still clear and concised. The part that we as individuals will eventually do is grow old. I mean really old. At that point in our lives, we just want to have peace and quietness. That I believe is the longing for the entire human race but true peace only exist in Christ Jesus Our Lord.I remember the day my grandfather when he died. It was during the month of Feb 1972, He was shuveling snow off the drive for my Tanta Marta. He told her she was too old to being doing that. I laughed. My aunt (Tanta) was 79 years old- my grandfather (her father) was 121 years old. He was 2 years younger than the oldest alive in the world. On that particular day when he shovelled the snow and walked in the house and looked at my aunt and killed over to his right. What a way to go! Brothers and sisters none of us are in any position to judge people. WE ALL HAVE SINNED! The only thing we can do is to discern whether his walked was according to the fruits of the Holy Spirit. You just have to meet him to know- He loves Jesus and with all his heart! I remember one time how much I loved PTL! I looked forward for it each day before I went to school. I loved hearing about Jesus and loved songs about Him. It wasn't until later in the military did I realized that PTL wasn't kosher in their faith.
Posted by Gramajo320 (Member # 4667) on
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A million articles can be written and be about tearing this one down or that one down and how many believe it to be the truth just because it was written. Are you so certain that this article is the truth? If so what makes you so certain? Just because it's written doesn't always make it be the truth. There has been such a movement of tearing down ministers going on one after another. Satan must really love it!
God is the only qualified one to judge anyone person and that is because God is the only one who knows exactly what is in everyone's heart. God did not give his job of judging to any single human being on this earth to do for him!
Eduardo, I agree with your posting.
Posted by TEXASGRANDMA (Member # 847) on
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During the night, I was thinking of Rev. Billy Graham and his acceptance of President Clinton. Perhaps it is because when he prayed with President Clinton, he found a man broken and willing to fall on his knees and pray for forgivness. Recently I have read of instances where President Bush was cursing a man to his face using the "F" word in front of his 4 year old son. We only see the televsion the man that President Bush wants us to see. In private Rev. Billy Graham may have seen a proud arrogant man. I will say this. At the prayer service after Sept 11, Rev. Billy Graham was the only preacher who had the nerve to pray in Jesus name. Everyone else would only say God's name for fear of offending non-Christians. I think he dropped the ball on not going out with a stonger preaching on salvation, but remember this, Rev. Billy Graham is 86 and with a brain injury. So lets pray that God will let him live out his days in the gentle arms of Jesus love.
betty
Posted by Gramajo320 (Member # 4667) on
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Texas Grandma,
Amen to your posting and I certainly agree with you. God bless you.
Posted by andyman (Member # 4781) on
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People please- stop it. This isnt a new fact that Graham is a democrat... Unfortunately, here in Vegas, no tv station would air any part of the crusade so i missed it entirely.. But you are all sounding incredibly judgemental. I am a republican & a conservative but i believe Billy is a democrat except with a few tendancies to go conservative with abortion and same sex marriage..... But still his political views and how people bash him for that is so insignificant and stupid when he led 210 million to salvation. Or how much that multiplied by the countless ministries, by the leaders getting saved, that started under Graham.
Posted by redkermit (Member # 4059) on
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I'm not sure what being a democrat has to do with anything. You are either a Christian or not a Christian. EVERYTHING we do in our lives should reflect Jesus Christ, no matter what party we affiliate with.
We should forgive Clinton and pray for him just like anyone else. I pray that by Billy Graham's friendship with Clinton that he has been able to be a witness to him.
Posted by helpforhomeschoolers (Member # 15) on
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Do you think that we will have to give account to God for knowingly casting our votes for those who would cast theirs for things like abortion and for homosexual marriage? Is this a work - that will either burn or stand? What do you think?
Posted by redkermit (Member # 4059) on
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quote:
Originally posted by helpforhomeschoolers:
Do you think that we will have to give account to God for knowingly casting our votes for those who would cast theirs for things like abortion and for homosexual marriage?
Absolutely. My only point was that everything we do should reflect Jesus Christ. We don't know if Graham voted for Clinton. Since he is a democrat, is it safe to assume he did? Maybe he befriended Clinton and tried to be a witness to him. If Graham did vote for him, then I agree that he will be held accountable for supporting things that are anti-biblical.
But, to continue to tear down a man in the attitude of the article that was written, I don't believe is Christ-like. I in no way have ever supported Bill Clinton, but he is a man in need of Jesus, just like the rest of us. His sins are no worse than yours or mine.
And, what exactly is a "veiled endorsement of Hilary Clinton"?
quote:
How could a man who has spent his life traveling the globe to bring the message of Jesus stoop so low?
How could a man who traveled the world preaching stoop so low as to befriend a Samaritan woman at the well?
As far as I know, we do not know the nature of Graham's & Clinton's relationship.
Posted by helpforhomeschoolers (Member # 15) on
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I am not sure that during his career Graham ever let on his political affiliation. I read in his book Just as I Am, that he felt very pressured in the elction between Dole and Clinton, to come out in support of one candiate or the other, and this was praticularly tough because they were both personal friends. He says in his book that his prayer on the matter was that God's will be done, as it had been with every other president.
I could relate to this as this is my prayer also at election time. I realize that one day, God's will will be being done as the AntiChrist himself takes the helm as world leader.
Still, I feel the obligation to vote in a way that to the best of my ability I vote for those whom I feel will not blantantly vote for things that are abomination to God, as I do see voting as a "work" that we do,as is everything else we do in this life.
I do not know why after all these years, Graham has come out and said that he has been a life long democrat. I assume that this is also God's will being done.
I knew when I posted this article that it would be controversial. I did not post it to tear down Billy Graham, I pray that Billy Graham will repent of his apostate views before his death.
I posted it because I think it speaks to this scripture by Paul:
1 Corinthians 9:27 but I chastise my body, and bring it into servitude, lest by any means, having preached to others—I myself may become disapproved.
I always found this to be an intersting thing for Paul to speak of. I so admire Paul and I cannot imagine that Paul would ever have been able to come to a point that he might no longer be useful to the Gospel. Yet Paul in the back of his mind somewhere kept this thought and knew that he would have to remain true to the Gospel all his days to be approved.
I know that Graham was one who went to great lengths to no ever put himself in a position to be accused of evil in the ways that most of us think of evil....he never could have been accused of physical impropriety for example. His accounting methods and the records of his ministry were always kept with the upmost detail; his own salary and such modest...we could go on for a long time over the things that Graham did to keep his body in subjection and never be in a place to be accused of sin that the Gospel be hurt.
But the sins of the flesh are not just the obvious. We also have to keep in subjection our mind - we can not embrace doctrines of demons.
I do think that over the years there has been a steady progression with Graham to abandon the truth and I post this because I want to show that it can happen to any one of us. We can be decieved. The enemy can lead us down the wrong path. I personally believe that for the elect he can only lead so far before God steps in and interviens, but that is another discussion and is apart from my point of posting this article.
My point is that we must not take the enmy or his ability to deceive too lightly; even Paul perhaps the greatest preacher to the Gentiles of all time understood that he could stumble and fall.
We look at the Great Billy Graham and say...cant happen look at all whom he led to Christ and I yes look. Billy Graham is a man, and men do not lead people to Christ - God draws men to himself and he uses men.., Men do not get people saved...the power of HIS Holy Spirit Gets people saved when men sow the WORD of God.
In the end, it is those that endure that shall be saved. Let us all pray that we be found to endure, as Paul did.
Sometimes even Great Men do not endure.
Posted by redkermit (Member # 4059) on
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Linda,
I agree with what you have said in your most recent post, and I get the feeling you may think I was defending Graham.
I was not really defending Graham, as much as commenting about the way Clinton is talked about in the article.
It drives me crazy to see people put on a pedestal, and see people blindly follow others without making sure they are lining up with the Word of God.
In the same respect, it drives me crazy to see politicians bashed. The hatred that has arisen on both sides since the Bush/Gore election really saddens me. People no longer look at issues, but just at political party. You can have a Christian democrat, Christian republican, or Christian independent. But, you should ALWAYS be a Christian before being a democrat, republican, independent, etc.
Matt
Posted by helpforhomeschoolers (Member # 15) on
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No problem and no misunderstanding Matt, I do most always appreciate your input; you often give me things I need to think about. Iron sharpens Iron, my friend!
I thought your points we valid. Truth is we do not know how another person votes even if they tell you they are of one party or the other. We dont have to vote our party in every election in this country.
Actually your point brought me to do a little reading and it seems that Graham always felt that if he spoke his political views it would divide his audience and that he did not want.
Which I find to be very interesting in light of today his political party affilation is made publically known.
It does too bother me to see politicians bashed. We are supposed to pray for our leaders knowing that God sets all political leaders on their thrones.
Some he sets there to bring judgment on his people or on another kingdom and some to bring blessing.
I believe that we call sin sin and clinton's sins I did not excuse; and I could have never in good consceince with God voted for him; but Clinton will like the rest of us have to answer to God for his works.
God's will is done in the earth whether we like it or not and whether we know it or not and whether we resist it or not.
Anyway, thanks for your input, I did appreciate it.
Posted by rancan6776 (Member # 3943) on
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The fear of God is slowly diminishing in this country. You see it everywhere you look. Proverbs 9:10 tells us that the fear of the Lord is the beginning of wisdom. This fear is a moral reverence. Those who remain guided by this fear or respect find guidance from God. But I think alot of people have become comfortable with God. In our efforts to make lost people feel comfortable with Christianity we have neglected a healthy fear of God. We have compromised.
Im sure glad Jesus stayed the course and did not compromise.
Im sorry if this post is a little of topic.
Posted by dcmbrnite (Member # 4819) on
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I can't honestly make any sort of opinion based on this post-Frankly I do not know much regarding Billy Graham, only what I hear from time to time... and well, as the saying goes "you can't believe everything you hear." Much of what we do hear or read is based upon opinions and others understanding/interuptation. I doubt many of us can say we "Know" Dr. Graham (especially on a personal basis)- to judge him based on others perspectives of what he has said or done is just as much a sin as murdering your neigbor.
It would appear, too, there are direct quotes-all I can say to that is many of us say things that others tend to understand differently, or mis-interpret-non of us are gifted with verbal elogance, I mean, there have been many times I have said something and someone would take it in a way I wouldn't have even imagine... how brutle our perspectives can be... especially if we have mentally pre-determined or own opinions as well as others motives.
Unfortunatly too, the older we get, often times, the more mentally "unstable" we become.
"People have a lot of strange motivations and reasons for saying things about others, jealousy, ignorance, an outright desire to just oppose what's good and noble. I think some people just want the press, to make news. What has to be remembered is that if we are the children of God through faith in Jesus Christ, and true to His Word (the Bible) we may have differences of opinion, BUT we will love and support one another. It's always interesting to get to the bottom of the heart and real motivations."
I am by no means agree or disagreeing with the post-I am merely just hoping that some of you will remember... no one is perfect.
Posted by Gramajo320 (Member # 4667) on
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Dcmbrnite,
How true that is - no one is perfect, infallible, and always 100% right on all subjects. Jesus Christ and God are the only true perfect ones, the only infallible ones, and the only 100% always right ones. God knows exactly what is in everyone's heart and He alone is the only one to judge everyone's heart.
Posted by SoftTouch (Member # 2316) on
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I have a question:
Who here believes that people who are Muslims, Buddists, Hindu's, or whatever other relgion, but love 'god' and seek him, are going to go to heaven (rather they know Jesus Christ or not)?
Posted by dcmbrnite (Member # 4819) on
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quote:
Originally posted by SoftTouch:
I have a question:
Who here believes that people who are Muslims, Buddists, Hindu's, or whatever other relgion, but love 'god' and seek him, are going to go to heaven (rather they know Jesus Christ or not)?
It says in scripture somewhere that we are not to worship false Idols (that is in our commandments) Regardless of good intentions-unless we believe in the One True God and blieve that Christ died for our sins we will not go to Heaven... its so very sad infact... The path to heaven is very narrow, only few will make it..
"the path to hell is paved with good intentsions"
Posted by TEXASGRANDMA (Member # 847) on
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Jhn 20:31 But these are written, that ye might believe that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God; and that believing ye might have life through his name.
1Jo 2:22 Who is a liar but he that denieth that Jesus is the Christ? He is antichrist, that denieth the Father and the Son.
1Jo 5:1Whosoever believeth that Jesus is the Christ is born of God: and every one that loveth him that begat loveth him also that is begotten of him.
1Jo 5:5 Who is he that overcometh the world, but he that believeth that Jesus is the Son of God?
Jhn 14:6 Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me.
Posted by SoftTouch (Member # 2316) on
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quote:
Originally posted by dcmbrnite:
quote:
Originally posted by SoftTouch:
I have a question:
Who here believes that people who are Muslims, Buddists, Hindu's, or whatever other relgion, but love 'god' and seek him, are going to go to heaven (rather they know Jesus Christ or not)?
It says in scripture somewhere that we are not to worship false Idols (that is in our commandments) Regardless of good intentions-unless we believe in the One True God and blieve that Christ died for our sins we will not go to Heaven... its so very sad infact... The path to heaven is very narrow, only few will make it..
"the path to hell is paved with good intentsions"
I believe Heart and Soul that Jesus Christ is the ONLY way. Here is a paraphrased quote from an Interview I Watched. Robert Schuller is interviewing Billy Graham:
In this interview Billy Graham says: “God is calling a people out for himself. Among the Muslim, Buddist, Hindu, all people, rather they know Christ or not. I believe they are saved.” (paraphrase)
When Robert Schuller heard Billy Graham make this pronouncement, he was Thrilled. Schuller then said "There is a wideness in god's mercy."
You could have knocked me over with a feather!
Now I SAW this with my own eyes and HEARD it with my own ears.
Posted by helpforhomeschoolers (Member # 15) on
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My mom used to say that: "The road to hell is paved with good intentions." I love that it is so true!!!
The scripture says that God does judge the hearts of men; but the scripture also says that out of the fullness of a mans heart his mouth does speak.
So then we who do hear what man speaks, can know the fulness of his heart. We will know this by the word of God.
Hebrews 4:12 For the word of God is quick, and powerful, and sharper than any twoedged sword, piercing even to the dividing asunder of soul and spirit, and of the joints and marrow, and is a discerner of the thoughts and intents of the heart.
The word of God in us does discern the fulness of a man's heart when we hear the speach that comes from his mouth and we know that the speach of the man and the word of God do not align.
This is discernment.
People can claim to have dicernment all day long, but if what comes from their mouths does not line up with what is written from God's mouth, the discernemnt they have is not of God and they are deceived and anyone who knows the word of God will hear it.
Hosea 4:6 My people are destroyed for lack of knowledge: because thou hast rejected knowledge, I will also reject thee, that thou shalt be no priest to me: seeing thou hast forgotten the law of thy God, I will also forget thy children.
Proverbs 4:5 Get wisdom, get understanding: forget it not; neither decline from the words of my mouth.
Psalms 119:104 Through thy precepts I get understanding: therefore I hate every false way.
Proverbs 4:5 Get wisdom, get understanding: forget it not; neither decline from the words of my mouth.
Proverbs 4:7 Wisdom is the principal thing; therefore get wisdom: and with all thy getting get understanding.
Proverbs 16:16 How much better is it to get wisdom than gold! and to get understanding rather to be chosen than silver!
Posted by becauseHElives (Member # 87) on
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quote:
redkermit
But, you should ALWAYS be a Christian before being a democrat, republican, independent, etc.
If you are a Christian you can not be a democrat, republican, independent, etc.
What political party do you think Yeshua was?
How about the Apostle Paul was?
How about How about Peter?
John?
James?
I can tell you positively they had no political preference.
They were pilgrims and strangers in a foreign land.
They were hated and despised for what they preached.
Remember Yeshua's words only a few will be saved!
You know, I can tell you without a doubt, if Billy Graham had been preaching and living a totally uncompromising message of repentance he would have never made it to where he is now. He has served as a spiritual advisor to every U.S. President since Dwight Eisenhower.
He was advisor to J.F.Kennedy, wait just a minute, he was a Roman Catholic. (You don't smell a rat) you need to pray for spiritual understanding.
June 13, 1997-- Just in from KJVKyle: Taken from The Cutting Edge radio broadcast:
Balaam's *** Speaks Editor: I am giving you the whole address data so Billy Graham's attorney, Mr. Schoole, will not be able to claim I attacked Graham personally. The threat continues.
From timbarbaho@msn.com Tue Jun 10 08:20:14 1997
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Date: Tue, 10 Jun 97 12:03:20 UT
From: "Timothy Aho"
Message-Id:
To: "Kyle" , "Lendon Smith" ,
Subject: Billy Graham
Dear Watchmen,
Finally, solid evidence is coming forth from the Masonic Order itself concerning Billy Graham's affiliation with this occult organization. The following is an excellent article by David Bay of Cutting Edge Ministries which exposes Billy Graham -- with references to an official Masonic web site that lists "Rev. Billy Graham" among their "Famous Members." (Go to "Other Famous Masons") For primary evidence documenting Rev. Graham's status as a "33rd Degree Mason" -- the highest order of Masons which are the elite planners of the New World Order -- access the following End-Time Deception Ministries page --
http://www.geocities.com/CapitolHill/8988/deadly.htm End-Time Ministries also has an informative web page with sound files on Kenneth Copeland, another 33rd degree Mason --
One of the petitions on the Watch Unto Prayer list is "that false prophets and teachers will be exposed." Such a request reflects God's will, for many Scriptures warn the saints to beware of and to avoid deceivers. Paul often identifies such men by name, so that the church will know who they are. In II Tim. 3:10, referring to "men of corrupt minds, reprobate concerning the truth," Paul states "But they shall proceed no further; for their folly shall be manifest unto all men, as their's also was." In this period of unprecedented deception, it seems reasonable to pray, not only that wolves in sheeps' clothing will be exposed, but that their exposure will be so extensive (unto all men) they will be unable to continue their deception.
Barb Aho
Watch Unto Prayer
timbarbaho@msn.com
http://watch.pair.com/pray.html
http://www.cuttingedge.org/n1082.html
THE "LOUISIANA MASONIC FAMILY" WEB SITE REPORTS THAT THE REVEREND BILLY GRAHAM IS A FREEMASON!!
For the past three decades, we Fundamental, Born Again Christians have repeatedly shaken our heads in dismay at the many strange and apostate actions that the organization of the Reverend Billy Graham was taking. We could not understand why he was doing many of these things.
But, if Billy Graham is a Freemason, as this Louisiana Masonic Site reports him to be, our questions are answered. We report this information, and we recount these many previously unexplainable events in the past 30 years.
The New World Order is coming! Are you ready? Once you understand what this New World Order really is, and how it is being gradually implemented, you will be able to see it progressing in your daily news!!
Learn how to protect yourself, your loved ones!
Stand by for insights so startling you will never look at the news the same way again.
YOU ARE NOW ON THE CUTTING EDGE
NEWS BRIEF: The Louisiana Masonic Family Web Site has a section entitled, "Famous Masons" In the subsection entitled, "Other Famous Masons", they report that the Reverend Billy Graham is a Freemason!
The Home Page of the Louisiana Masonic Family is: http://www2.linknet.net/masonic/mig1.htm
The link entitled, "Famous Masons" is on http://www2.linknet.net/masonic/famous.htm
On Page 12 of 15, alphabetically listed, the Reverend Billy Graham is listed!!
If Reverend Graham is a Freemason as this Louisiana Masonic Family Web Site reports, and we have no reason to doubt it, then we can begin to understand why and how his organization has drifted far, far away from pursuing the true goals of the Fundamental, Bible-believing Christian Churches. These goals were well supported by Reverend Graham in the late 1940's, as well they should have been, because they were based upon Biblical principle. As Reverend Graham began to drift away from these goals, we in the Fundamental community were terribly dismayed and filled with consternation!! We began to watch the activities of his organization very carefully, and saw, to our greater dismay, that he continued to drift into the camp of apostate churches and New Age organizations! Today, Reverend Graham is cooperating with the Roman Catholic Pope and the Vatican on many issues, he has been seen speaking to the World Council of Churches, and cooperating with other apostate religious leaders. We will document these activities, below.
Before we get started, however, we need to reiterate that we found this information on an official Masonic Web Site, not on an anti-Mason Web Site. We cannot conceive that the Louisiana Masonic Family Web Site would print a lie concerning their membership. We urge you to click on these Web addresses that we listed, above, to see this information for yourself. However, we have noticed that several official Masonic Web Sites that used to include Reverend Graham's name on their membership list have subsequently removed his name. Why would they do this? They undoubtedly took this action because of pressure from the Graham organization.
Therefore, we believe that this Louisiana Masonic Family Web Site might also remove his name from their membership once this news is reported. The only reason we can think of that this kind of pressure might be exerted is the Reverend Graham is not willing that others learn of his membership at this time. Perhaps he feels that Christians of his key constituencies would leave in droves should they learn that he is a Freemason.
In the next article, we shall examine the ramifications of this startling information that Reverend Billy Graham is a Freemason. But, now, we need to examine the things which the Graham organization has done over the years that caused Fundamental Christians to understand, with dismay, that he was moving toward apostasy.
Billy Graham's Rapid Change of Principles
I. Billy Graham's Rapid Changes From His Original Crusade Policies
This is taken from "Billy Graham's 23 years of Theological Change" by Rev. Charles Emert, 1971.
A. Change Regarding The Apostate World Council of Churches 1. In 1948 Billy Graham was asked, "What do you expect the WORLD COUNCIL OF CHURCHES to do this August when they visit Copenhagen?" He replied, "I believe they are going to NOMINATE THE ANTICHRIST!" [He certainly was against the WCC at that time!] 2. As Early As 1966 He boasted that he attended the WCC assembly in New Delhi in 1961, and he hoped he would attend the 4th assembly in Uppsala, Sweden in 1968 (which he did). He has attended all but two WCC assemblies ever since. This policy continues. Quite a CHANGE!
B. Change Regarding Sponsorship by Various Councils of Churches 1. In 1952 Billy Graham wrote to Dr. John R. Rice, "... we have NEVER been sponsored by the COUNCIL OF CHURCHES in any city except Shreveport and Greensboro ... both small towns where the majority of ministers are evangelical." 2. As Early As 1964 Billy Graham's Columbus, Ohio, crusade was sponsored by the modernistic Columbus area Council of Churches. This policy continues. Quite a CHANGE!
C. Change Regarding Non-Fundamentalists In Authority or Responsibility 1. In 1955 Billy Graham said to Dr. John R. Rice: "I will NEVER have anybody take a PLACE OF AUTHORITY or RESPONSIBILITY in my campaign who is not SOUND IN THE GREAT FUNDAMENTALS OF THE FAITH." 2. As Early As 1957 In the New York crusade, Billy Graham had Henry Pitt Van Dusen, President of Union Theological Seminary. take a place of responsibility and authority. U.S. News wrote that Van Dusen's school was "one of the most LIBERAL and LEFT-WING schools in America." Yet for all this, they wrote that "Dr. Van Dusen is considered by Graham as a GREAT RELIGIOUS LEADER." He [Billy Graham] has used other apostates such as Robert J. McCracken, Norman Vincent Peale, and others. This policy continues in his crusades. Quite a CHANGE!
[Cutting Edge Commentary: Norman Vincent Peale was also a Freemason, according to this Louisiana Masonic Family Web Site, given above, and by Cyberconnect's "History of Freemasonry", http://www.cyberconnect.com/max/hist.htm .Both these Web Sites are official Freemasonry sites!]
D. Change Regarding Separation From Those Who Reject Biblical Authority 1. In 1952 and 1958 Billy Graham, in time past made sound statements concerning false doctrine: a. In 1952, He wrote to Bob Jones, Sr., "We have never had a man on our committee that denied the VIRGIN BIRTH, the VICARIOUS ATONEMENT, or the BODILY RESURRECTION." b. In 1958. He stated in Eternity Magazine: "If a man blatantly denies the DEITY OF CHRIST or that Christ has come in the flesh, we are NOT TO EVEN BID HIM GODSPEED. Thus, the Scriptures teach that we are able to be SEPARATED FROM those who DENY THE DEITY OF OUR LORD JESUS CHRIST ... I am to treat him as an ANTICHRIST and an ENEMY OF THE CROSS." [Cutting Edge Commentary: We applaud this statement by Graham, as he certainly knows the Scriptural teaching regarding the definition of what qualifies as Antichrist teaching, and the commandment to separate yourself and your organization from such teaching and from anyone who teaches such heresy. Therefore, we read, with heavy heart, the next revelation.] 2. As Early As 1963 He had United Methodist Bishop, Gerald B. Kennedy, as his Los Angeles Crusade Chairman. Kennedy wrote in one of his books: "I believe that the testimony of the New Testament, taken as a whole, is AGAINST THE DOCTRINE OF THE DEITY OF JESUS ..." This policy continues. Quite a CHANGE! [Cutting Edge Commentary: If Graham was including in his Crusades a man who publicly denied the Deity of Jesus Christ, as early as 1963, how is it that all Fundamentalist Christians continued to believe in him? The answer is that too many of us knew Graham only from his TV sermons, which contained no error. We assumed his organization would be similarly true to the Bible. We did not look behind the scenes to see the heresy beginning to creep in!]
E. Change Regarding Encouraging "Converts" to go to Modernistic Churches 1. In 1950 Billy Graham's secretary, Jerry Bevan, wrote, "Certainly, Dr. Graham does NOT encourage converts to go to Catholic or MODERNISTIC CHURCHES." 2. As Early As 1957 He sent ... 373 of his New York City decision cards to the apostate Marble Collegiate Church in that city.
This trend continues in regard to apostate Protestant churches, Catholic churches, Jewish synagogues, and elsewhere. Quite a CHANGE!
[Cutting Edge Commentary: The word "apostate" refers to someone or some organization that once stood for the Truth of the Gospel, but has subsequently abandoned this Truth and is now advocating other positions that are not Biblical Truth. Almost all Mainline Protestant denominations, such as the Methodist, Episcopalian, Congregationalist, to name just a few, at one time were very Fundamental and adopted the same stands we currently adopt. However, over the passage of time, these denominations have drifted away from strictly observing the Fundamental Doctrines and have begun to either compromise their beliefs or deny their previously held beliefs]
F. Change Regarding Roman Catholicism: 1. In 1964 Billy Graham's aide, George Edstrom, wrote: "Mr. Graham has NEVER PREACHED IN A CATHOLIC CHURCH, and he does NOT AGREE WITH THEM in the joining of ONE CHURCH. If you heard this, it is nothing but false rumors." 2. As Early As 1963 [Note that this date is one year earlier than this statement, above] In 1963, Mr. Graham had spoken at the Roman Catholic Belmont (NC) Abbey College. [Cutting Edge Commentary: Denying, in 1964, that Graham had spoken any Catholic Church, when he had, in fact, spoken at Belmont Abbey College the year earlier, does not this qualify as an bold faced lie?!] 3. In 1967 He again spoke at this college at the Institute for Ecumenical Dialogue, receiving his honorary Doctor of Humane Letters (D.H.L.) from them and saying that this was "... a time when PROTESTANTS AND CATHOLICS could meet together and greet each other as BROTHERS, whereas ten years ago they could not." At the same time, he stated: "The Gospel that built this school and the gospel that brings me here tonight is still the only way to salvation." This policy of pro-Roman Catholicism continues. Quite a CHANGE!
[Cutting Edge Commentary: We find it almost inconceivable that Graham could equate the True Gospel of Salvation Through Grace ALONE, with the Roman Catholic False Gospel of Salvation through good works, through the Sacraments of the Church, through Baptism, through praying to dead saints, through praying the Rosary, through Indulgences, and through Penance. These vast differences are what caused Martin Luther to break with the Roman Catholic Church and to start the Protestant Movement. Did you know that the very word, Protestant, derived from the word, "Protest" against Rome? Have you forgotten, Mr. Graham, the 68,000,000 million Protestant martyrs at the hands of the Catholic Inquisition, from 1550-1850? When Graham is making these statements, and calling Catholics brothers, he is denying the collective martyrdom of all these valiant Christians who died at the hands of Rome.]
[The Roman Catholic Church completely fulfills two prophecies. 1) John 16:2-3, "yea, the time cometh, that whosoever killeth you will think that he doeth God service. And these things will they do unto you, because they have not known the Father, nor me." More than the Roman and Jewish persecutors during the day Jesus spoke these words, the Roman Catholic Church has fulfilled this prophecy. This is exactly what they were doing during the Inquisition, martyring Protestants and then claiming they were doing God service. And, Jesus nails the issue right on the head when He states that the people who do this do not know either the Father or Jesus. 2) Revelation 17:6, "And I saw the woman drunken with the blood of the saints, and with the blood of the martyrs of Jesus: and when I saw her, I wondered with great admiration."
This "woman" is the religious false harlot, whom Protestant Bible scholars have identified as the Roman Catholic Church for the past 200+ years.
Certainly, Rome qualifies here, as well. Reverend Graham slighted every one of these 8,000,000 Christian martyrs when he equated the True Gospel with the Roman Catholic Church. But, if Graham is secretly a Freemason, we know how and why he can make this kind of statement.
Remember this about a Freemason: he believes he is following a higher religious truth than is contained within any individual religious organization, including Christianity. Therefore, Graham can preach the Gospel with his lips while guiding his organization toward the Freemasonry ideal of the global Fraternity of Mankind, i.e., the New World Order Religion!! And, he can do this without suffering feelings of remorse and conscience!]
G. Change Regarding Communism 1. In 1949 Billy Graham said: "Communism is inspired, directed, and motivated, by the Devil himself." [Cutting Edge Commentary: Graham spoke the Truth here; the question is, did he believe it then, or was he simply following the Dialectic Process at this point? In NEWS1007 "Thesis x Antithesis = Synthesis -- The Real Flow Of History", we showed that Freemasonry created Communism so as to provide the world with the needed Antithesis to battle Thesis to produce the Synthesis, which is the New World Order. Read this article carefully. The point is, if Billy Graham were a Mason above the 30th Degree, and he probably was, given his high position of World Evangelist, then he knew that Communism was a loyal ally in the "struggle" to achieve the Synthesis, the New World Order.] 2. As Early As 1959 In Christianity Today, it was reported: "Without elaboration, the evangelist [Graham] said his thinking had undergone some CHANGES ... and he indicated that his attitude toward EASTERN EUROPE is more open." This policy continues. Quite a CHANGE! 3. In 1982 He visited the Moscow Peace Conference and said: "I saw no evidence of religious persecution in Russia."
This was in spite of his visit to the Siberian Pentecostals staying in the American Embassy. [Cutting Edge Commentary: This was the event which I saw with my own eyes, as I watched on TV, that caused me to begin to doubt Reverend Billy Graham. With my background in history and government, I knew that the Communist Russian Government strictly controlled what Graham saw in Russia, and I knew that the severe persecution of religion and the murder of many Christians, was one of the most well documented tragedies of the 20th Century. Therefore, for Graham to make this statement, I knew he had to either be terribly naive or misled, or that he had to be cooperating with the Communists. Further, I watched carefully over the next days, weeks, and months, to see if the Graham Evangelistic Organization issued a statement of clarification of Graham's ridiculous remarks, because many times, an official makes a silly remark off the cuff but his office is careful that everyone knows it was a mistake. No such clarification was ever issued. In 1982, I was a full 5 years away from understanding the first thing about the New World Order].
II. A SAMPLING OF OTHER UNSCRIPTURAL BELIEFS OR POLICIES OF BILLY GRAHAM
A. Communism, Roman Catholicism, and Mohammedanism "In 1948, he said: 'The three gravest menaces faced by Orthodox Christianity are Communism, Roman Catholicism, and Mohammedanism.' In 1973, he said that Communist Mao Tse-Tung's eight precepts are basically the same as the Ten Commandments. In 1973, he praised the Roman Catholic mass as a 'very beautiful thing', and by 1978, he said Muhammed Ali's beliefs in Islam 'are something we all could believe'." [Cutting Edge Commentary: While this change in statements make no sense on the surface, and absolutely no sense to the Christian whose beliefs on key matters are based upon Eternal Scripture, these changes make absolute sense for a Freemason! A Freemason believes that all religions are equally valid, and it embraces all the "Wisdom" of all the Ancient Mystery Religions. Further, a Mason will look upon Communism as a loyal ally in the drive to create the Synthesis system known as the New World Order!!
B. Infant Baptismal Regeneration and Billy Graham "In 1961, Dr. Graham said this of infant baptism: "I do believe that something happens at the baptism of an infant ... I believe that a miracle can happen in these children so that they are regenerated, that is, made Christian through infant baptism." [Cutting Edge Commentary: Wow, Graham made this kind of heretical statement in 1961? Why did it take us Fundamentalists so long to realize that Graham was an apostate??!! We had on blinders, didn't we?]
C. Apostate Leslie Weatherhead On Billy Graham's Platform In London "In 1966, Dr. Graham said this of infant baptism: 'I remember during our London Crusade of 1954, I preached a sermon ... Dr. Leslie Weatherhead sat on the platform that evening and to my surprise commended my sermon.' Dr. Weatherhead was a notorious blasphemer who wrote in his book, The Christian Agnostic, that the Lord Jesus Christ was born an illegitimate child, and that Mary was no virgin, but a temple prostitute." [Cutting Edge Commentary: This heretical notion that Jesus Christ was born out of wedlock is a common New Age teaching. Some New Age authors have even gone so far as to say that the father was a Roman soldier, and some even say that the soldier was of German descent! I guess the question to ask about this situation, was, why did Graham allow Dr. Weatherhead to even sit on the platform, if Weatherhead was so blatantly a heretic? A speaker allows only dignitaries with whom he agrees to sit on the platform while he is speaking. Just sitting on the platform with Graham signifies that Graham was conferring honor and acceptance on Weatherhead!]
D. Billy Graham Doesn't Think The Heathen Are Lost "In 1978, McCall's Magazine reported Dr. Graham's 'updated' understanding of the way of salvation. 'I used to think that pagans in far-off countries were lost -- were going to hell -- if they did not have the Gospel of Jesus Christ preached to them. I NO LONGER BELIEVE THAT ... I believe there are other ways of recognizing the existence of God -- through nature, for instance -- and plenty of other opportunities, therefore, of saying yes to God." [Cutting Edge Commentary: While the Apostle Paul did say, in Romans 1:18-20, that all men have a basic knowledge of God's existence implanted in their inner consciences, and they can see evidences of God's existence in nature, Paul is saying all this in connection with the concept that, because of these things, all men are without excuse before God on Judgment Day. Paul's exact words were, "... so that they are without excuse". Paul never, ever, said that the pagans do not need the Gospel to be saved, as Graham here is saying. In fact, Paul boldly states just the opposite, in Romans 10:14-15, " How then shall they call on him in whom they have not believed? and how shall they believe in him of whom they have not heard? and how shall they hear without a preacher? And how shall they preach, except they be sent? as it is written, How beautiful are the feet of them that preach the gospel of peace, and bring glad tidings of good things!" How can the pagans, Paul asks, be saved without a preacher being sent to preach the Gospel to them? Dr. Graham was clearly wrong here; why didn't we get wise then?]
E. Billy Graham -- Now Works With Everyone "Once a self-confessed 'Bible fundamentalist and separatist', today Dr. Graham freely associates and fraternizes with 'anyone under any label' -- liberal, modernist, charismatic, Catholic. We are not surprised that Dr. Graham is now a friend of the World Council of Churches and the Roman Catholic Church ... In his crusades, Dr. Graham has established a global pattern of cooperative, ecumenical evangelism, allowing liberals, modernists, evangelicals, charismatic, and Roman Catholics to work together, thus accelerating the pace of ecumenical union." [Cutting Edge Commentary: My beloved Mother was a fervent Graham supporter, and believed that I was totally off base in my complaints. However, in 1994, just months before she died, she called me one night, crying. She said, "David, you were right about Billy Graham being an apostate! I have just been watching his crusade and I was upset from the beginning by seeing Roman Catholic nuns and priests on his platform, sitting behind him. When he gave his standard invitation to come down to accept Jesus Christ as Savior, he then said, 'And if you are Roman Catholic, I want you to come down to renew your vows.' " Mom well knew that there is no salvation within Roman Catholic doctrine, and from that moment on stayed completely away from any association with Billy Graham and his organization. But, Dr. Graham has always been ecumenical, because his crusades have always encouraged the advance support work from all Protestant churches in the area in which he is going to have his crusade! And, he has sent follow-up cards to all Protestant churches after his crusade. Lately, he has been including the Roman Catholic Church in this effort. Therefore, Dr. Graham has always promoted Ecumenism.
The Ecumenical Movement seeks to unite all churches of all denominations, even though many of these churches hold different doctrines, some them of very important doctrines. Basically, these churches unite, "agreeing to disagree" on doctrinal matters, emphasizing matters on which they can agree. Therefore, churches who believe in the Deity of Jesus Christ and Salvation only through him, are uniting with churches who deny these doctrines! This is the Ecumenical Movement today! These churches are ignoring Jesus' commandments to "Come out of her [the false system], my people, that ye be not partakers of her sins, and that ye receive not of her plagues." Or, they have forgotten Paul's warning of associating with non-believers, "Be ye not unequally yoked together with unbelievers: for what fellowship hath righteousness with unrighteousness? and what communion hath light with darkness? And what concord hath Christ with Belial? or what part hath he that believeth with an infidel?" Truly, when a church who holds to the traditional doctrines of the Christian faith, joins with a church who denies some or much of this faith, that church is being "unequally yoked" with an infidel organization, an organization of "Belial", who is equated with Satan or Antichrist! -- Holman Bible Dictionary Online --
Furthermore, New Age authors make no bones about the fact that they see the Ecumenical Movement as being the main tool to bring Christian churches into the planned global New World Order Religion. Listen to the way in which Master D.K. describes the planned Ecumenical Movement, speaking through Alice Bailey, in the book, "The Externalisation of the Hierarchy". "Eventually, there will appear the Church Universal, and its definite outlines will appear towards the end of this century. This Church will be nurtured into activity by the Christ and His disciples ... when the true second coming has been accomplished. No date for the advent do I set, but the time will not be long. The Christian church, in its many branches, can serve as a St. John the Baptist, as a voice crying in the wilderness, and as a nucleus through which world illumination may be accomplished ... Its work is intended to be the holding of a broad platform. The church must show a wide tolerance, and teach no revolutionary doctrines or cling to any reactionary ideas ... The prime work of the church is to teach, and teach ceaselessly, preserving the outer appearance in order to reach the many who are accustomed to church usages ... the sacraments must be mystically interpreted ..." -- Page 510-511. Did you fully understand what the demon, Master D.K., has just revealed? Eventually, the global church of the Christ -- Antichrist -- , which he has called the Church Universal, will arise toward the "end of this century". But, first, the Christian Church must serve as a preparatory force to change the old, "reactionary" church, which has promoted "revolutionary doctrines" into a new, combined church which holds forth a "broad platform" that shows a "wide tolerance". However, while this change is going on, the Christian Churches must "preserve their outer appearance" in order to deceive those who need to still believe they are serving Jesus Christ!! Does this not fully explain the current Ecumenical Movement? It holds forth a "broad platform" and shows a "wide tolerance" while still pretending to be Christian! And, as Master D.K. so eloquently states, the ultimate aim is to produce the Church Universal of the Christ -- Antichrist.
This section, quoted above, makes me think of several Scriptures which speak directly to this terrible situation facing us today, embodied in the Ecumenical Movement. 1) Jesus warns, in Matthew 7:13-14, "Enter ye in at the strait gate: for wide is the gate, and broad is the way, that leadeth to destruction, and many there be which go in thereat: Because strait is the gate, and narrow is the way, which leadeth unto life ..." The "broad" way which Jesus stated leads to Hell is the same "broad platform" of which Master D.K. speaks, above. This "broad" road means that anyone can believe and practice anything, and still will think it will lead them to Heaven. This is precisely the belief of the Freemasons, of which Billy Graham is a part. They believe that all religions are equally valid, and that all roads lead to Heaven. The main enemy is the Fundamentalist Christian who insists upon following the "narrow way" that leads to eternal life! 2) Jesus warned that, in the Last Days, religious deception would be unparalleled. a) Matthew 24:4, "Take heed that no man deceive you." b) Matthew 24:10, "And then shall many be offended, and shall betray one another, and shall hate one another And many false prophets shall rise, and shall deceive many." Isn't this precisely the effect which the Ecumenical Movement has had upon the Christian Church? Beginning in 1910, when the National Council of Churches was founded, many "religious leaders" became offended at the simple, profound, and miraculous Truth of the Gospel, and they began to hatefully attack those leaders who held to these Truths. But, these "false prophets" persisted, and have led many away from the Gospel, deceiving them tremendously. They have paved the way for the coming Antichrist, just as John the Baptist paved the way for Jesus Christ. Master D.K. knew whereof he spoke. c) Matthew 24:24, "For there shall arise false Christs, and false prophets, and shall show great signs and wonders; insomuch that, if it were possible, they shall deceive the very elect." This deception would become more clever and more persuasive, until the only ones who are NOT deceived are those who are the Elect of God, those who are truly Born Again! We are at this point right now!
Finally, did you notice Master D.K.'s assertion that the "sacraments must be mystically interpreted"? When he is speaking of the "sacraments" he is including the whole of Scripture, as well. Thus it is that the entire Bible has been "mystically interpreted". Go into any New Age bookstore and you will discover books about Jesus' "Lost Years", or about His "Secret Teachings", or about the revelations of the "Akrashic record". These are all systematic efforts to "mystically" reinterpret Scripture, so the New Ager now has a mystical answer for every valid doctrine of Scripture. This is unparalleled deception, and its very existence is proof we are living in the Last Days.]
F. Billy Graham -- Enthusiastic Friend of Rome "Dr. Graham is an ardent admirer and supporter of the Pope with whom he has regular and warm liaison ... On another occasion, he said that he believed the Pope to be 'God's instrument for revival in our generation' ... It is now 'normal' for Roman Catholic nuns and priests to support Billy Graham Crusades by training counselors for, and being personally involved in, the crusades." [Cutting Edge Commentary: In NEWS1052, "Seminar Notes: House of Theosophy, 8/18/91", we reveal that the New World Order Plan has chosen the Roman Catholic Pope to be its head religious leader of the Church Universal of Antichrist! This leadership post places the Roman Catholic Pope as the False Prophet of Revelation 13:11-18. And naming the Pope to this position is consistent with the prophecy of Revelation 13:11 that he will have "two horns like a lamb", meaning that he will present himself to a believing world as a Christian leader. Most non-Fundamentalist people today believe the Pope is a Christian. Billy Graham certainly aids and abets this false perception, doesn't he? Therefore, Billy Graham is helping Revelation 13:11 to be literally fulfilled, isn't he? And, if Graham is aiding the False Prophet, then his activities are aiding Antichrist, as well.
G. Billy Graham's "Converts" Sent Back To Their Unbiblical Churches " 'Converts at Billy Graham Crusades are sent to 'churches of their choice' without any sort of spiritual distinction. This results in their being sent to liberal-modernist churches, as well as Roman Catholic churches; newborn babes are being fed with DOCTRINAL POISON." Another Fundamentalist author, E.L. Bynum, states in his pamphlet, "Why We Cannot Support The Billy Graham Crusade": "But as a matter of conscience, we cannot endorse the ministry of Billy Graham, nor can we cooperate in a Billy Graham Crusade. Our reasons are based upon the World of God!! We cannot remain silent when this ministry of compromise is being used to destroy the very foundations of the Christian faith. There is a reason why apostates and carnal religious leaders are so enthusiastic about their support of Billy Graham. Billy Graham is pumping warm blood into the dead ecumenical movement and helping to build the coming one world church. When the ecumenical liberals hit a snag in bringing about organic union of the denominations, they saw in Billy Graham an opportunity to break down the stubborn bars of separation, through the medium of evangelism. It is working quite well for them."
I had never thought of the fact that Billy Graham began his popular evangelistic ministry at just the time when the liberal churches were beginning to lose so many members that they were afraid of going out of existence. Graham's ministry has truly infused new lifeblood into these dying liberal churches.
At this point, we must reiterate that we do not find much fault with what Billy Graham SAYS during his sermons. He does preach the True Gospel message, and we are sure that many, many people have been truly saved during his Crusades. However, we do find much to fault him for the liberal, modernistic, and apostate people and organizations with which he constantly associates and supports. And, when his organization sends a brand new baby Christian to one of these apostate churches for follow-up training, that baby Christian will certainly be quickly turned into a good New World Order Christian, quite capable of supporting Antichrist when he arises!!
The fact that we now have been told by the Louisiana Masonic Family that Billy Graham is a Freemason, we see yet another sign that the End of the Age is upon us. Graham is a counterfeit Christian, probably the best ever. Does he not know that he is fulfilling the Biblical prophecies of unparalleled religious deception, deception so good that even the Elect would be deceived were it not for the power of the Holy Spirit revealing the Truth to the true believers? We need to really pray for Billy Graham and everyone in his organization!!
The End of the Age is so close we can hear the hoof beats of the approaching Four Horsemen of the Apocalypse [Revelation 6]. Are you spiritually ready? Is your family? Are you adequately protecting your loved ones? This is the reason for this ministry, to enable you to first understand the peril facing you, and then help you develop strategies to warn and protect your loved ones. Once you have been thoroughly trained, you can also use your knowledge as a means to open the door of discussion with an unsaved person. I have been able to use it many times, and have seen people come to Jesus Christ as a result. These perilous times are also a time when we can reach many souls for Jesus Christ, making an eternal difference. If you have accepted Jesus Christ as your personal Savior, but have been very lukewarm in your spiritual walk with Him, you need to immediately ask Him for forgiveness and for renewal. He will instantly forgive you, and fill your heart with the joy of the Holy Spirit. Then, you need to begin a daily walk of prayer and personal Bible Study.
If you have never accepted Jesus Christ as Savior, but have come to realize His reality and the approaching End of the Age, and want to accept His FREE Gift of Eternal Life, you can also do so now, in the privacy of your home.
Once you accept Him as Savior, you are spiritually Born Again, and are as assured of Heaven as if you were already there. Then, you can rest assured that the Kingdom of Antichrist will not touch you spiritually. If you would like to become Born Again, turn to our Salvation Page now.
We hope you have been blessed by this ministry, which seeks to educate and warn people, so that they can see the coming New World Order -- Kingdom of Antichrist -- in their daily news.
* This information taken from "Billy Graham's Rapid Change of Principles", by Rev. D.A. Waite, Th.D., Ph.D., Director, The Bible For Today, 900 Park Avenue, Collingswood, NJ, 08108.
You can also E-Mail us at David Bay, david@cuttingedge.org
God bless you.
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Posted by taliston (Member # 4735) on
:
I just read this thread and I thought these articles were interesting. Personally, I have never been a big Billy Graham fan. I think he used to preach a simple message, and then he got elevated and over rated.
Posted by becauseHElives (Member # 87) on
:
The Deception of Billy Graham, a Mind-Control Front
In 1992, Billy Graham broadcast all over the U.S. his radio show called Embrace America 2000. In the Louisiana area, it came over the KJAM Lafayette Station. During the show, Billy Graham told the American people we need to embrace the New World Order.
Billy Graham is also on record stating that people can have salvation through paganism (another name for witchcraft). For instance, in McCall Magazine (Jan. 1978) Graham stated, "I used to believe that pagans in far-off countries were lost--were going to hell. I no longer believe that. I believe that there are other ways of recognizing the existence of God--through nature, for instance." Pagans believe that salvation can be obtained through nature.
Update: I got a copy of the article with the transcript of the interview of Billy Graham by Robert Schuller in Christian News newspaper of 1997 p.15. Librarians are great to help one get a copies of sources like that. I also found the other quote about Pagan getting 'saved' through nature in the McCall's magazine of January 1978 (not 1987, that was a typo on your website) on pg. 156-157. The title of the McCall's article is "I can't play God anymore" and the writer is James Michael Beam. At the library, I also found a book that Billy Graham published in 1961 (Word Books Publisher. Call # 234.2G76). The title is "How To Be Born Again" and on pages 56 and 57 he alludes that you can be saved without knowing Christ or His name, just by seeing God's attributes in Nature. I photocopied all that and showed them to my church friends. That convinced them, and they reluctantly agreed that Graham's has unbiblical beliefs about salvation. And his heretical beliefs are consistent over time too, because those documents are from 1961, 1978, and 1997. Sent in by (Anonymous)
This is not a pleasant story. Billy Graham has been built up to be the most respected popular person in America, Who wants to find out they have been deceived? We will try to give you the facts, or evidence, and may God grant you wisdom as you read this. This section is not propaganda for our own personal views. Years ago, when Fritz set out on his search, he had no final outcome in mind. Fritz isn’t concerned with concealing facts one way or the other. There is no desire to stampede our readers any where. We do want to clarify many issues. We do want to help the truth seeker. But the co-authors personally have no battle to win, except that truth be brought forth.
The issues at stake are not trivial. Historically, Billy Graham’s deception is one of the ,,greatest" deceptions that has ever been perpetrated. Some might argue the greatest, making Benedict Arnold, Quisling, and the Trojan Horse pale into insignificance. Allow us to introduce you just briefly into the world of the Illuminati, All top hierarchy Satanists are required to have covers, The Illuminatus will have multiple personalities, and he or she will have one personality that is particularly shown to the outside world. They (the Programmers, handlers and the Illuminati councils) try to get the best covers that they can. They like to be clergymen, but they are also mayors of big cities, lawyers, doctors, etc. A Christian psychiatrist who has worked with numerous victims of Satanism and Multiple Personality Disorder wrote this observation after having worked with a large number of ex-multi-generational programmed Satanic multiples, "Some Satanists have invaded the church as it is the perfect cover for them. They masquerade as angels of light and gravitate towards positions of leadership in order to have more influence. Because much of what they say is sound doctrinally, they are rarely detected. Most survivors whom I have worked with had satanist parents who were in high positions in churches; many were pastors." (Dr. Fox, Loreda. The Spiritual and Clinical Dimensions of Multiple Personality Disorder. Salida, CO: Books of Sangre de Cristo, p. 196.)
Let us repeat what Dr. Loreda Fox said, "Most survivors whom I have worked with had satanist parents who were in high positions in churches; many were pastors." She didn’t say "some," she said MOST. Independently, we have discovered the very same thing. People don’t grasp that just because a preacher can sincerely preach what seems a "perfect sermon," doesn’t mean that he can’t also be part of the Satanic hierarchy. What is happening with the Illuminati’s ability to create programmed multiples is that we are getting perfect preachers who are secret hierarchy members. Some of their "perfect sermons" are full of slides, such as "the Christian people need to get involved in the voting process. Christians love to hear such things, it tickles their ears, but the truth is that the entire voting process has been captured and corrupted. Voting machines have repeatedly been exposed to have been rigged, and the controlled media and public denial have prevented Americans from giving up their myth that the common man’s votes run this nation. VoteScam - So Easy As To Be Laughable
(The subject of election corruption is dealt with in Fritz’s newsletters, etc.) In Fritz’s Be Wise As Serpents book (which exposed Billy Graham as a Luciferian in 1991), it is explained that high level Satanism is Gnosticism which requires that "the Force" of these great satanic magicians be balanced. In other words, in high level Satanism your good deeds must balance your evil deeds. People do not realize that unless someone does "good" deeds they cannot be a high level Satanist. That is why some of the greatest philanthropists are also our leading national satanists, To see Billy Graham do something commendable does not disqualify him from satanism. In fact, it is a requirement if he’s been part of the Illuminati, such as ex-insiders/witnesses say he was. In fact, it wasn’t until working on this book that an eyewitness to the mind-control abuse of at the hands of Billy Graham offered to help contribute to this section of the book. In other words, an eyewitness helped write this. This eyewitness account by the Co-author matches what the list of eyewitnesses that Fritz assembled in 1993 have said, But the eyewitness went further and exposed B.G. crusades’ skillful use of Monarch slaves to launder drug money. Several police officers have stated that today, there is for all practical purposes no police training helping police to understand Satanism. They are highly trained in many areas, but Satanism is avoided. When an SRA case involving multiplicity in Olympia, WA recently happened, the police who investigated the case found that they were treated as international experts in satanism by other policemen. They themselves knew that they knew very little. Where are the experts to teach us about how the Illuminati functions? Where are the experts who know who are in the Illuminati? There is no college open to the public that teaches Advanced Illuminati Studies 401, and gives degrees in Satanism. The expert witnesses are those who have managed to leave the Illuminati and Satanism, and stay alive long enough to talk. But the other side will argue, how can we verify the testimony of your witnesses Fritz? Remember what happened to over 100 people who had some type of knowledge about the Kennedy assassination? Jim Marrs in his book Crossfire on the Kennedy Assassination lists 103 people who were key figures in knowing about the assassination who have died, many in circumstances that indicate assassination. The story we are dealing with here is just as sensitive to the elite as Kennedy’s assassination, because it involves their preparations for the creation of a false Christ, called by Christians the AntiChrist, who will be the master handler/programmer. The LIST OF known & credible WITNESSES If the authors were to call my list of witnesses up to the witness stand--which I can’t for it would be a death sentence to many of them, the list would include:
1 Council of Foreign Relations member, who is secretly against the New World Order
1 National Security Agency person, who is against the New World Order
1 CIA high level administrator 2 Satanists, still in covens, but unhappy enough with the situation to talk 4 ex-Satanists, 3 of which are eyewitnesses, all Christians now 2 ex-New Age leaders who worked with the Conspiracy, both became Christians 1 ex-33° Mason, now a Christian Various Christians who have worked with Billy Graham, Pastors, etc. Various therapists working with SRA victims The man who ran Security at the Sacramento Crusade Alice Braemer, a woman who worked as a secretary for Jeanne Dixon
None, except for a couple of exceptions, none of these people knew anything about what the other witnesses (sources) had said. The high degree of validation and collaboration that separate testimony by witnesses who have never seen each other and live in different parts of the country is very powerful. There are several questions that pop up into people’s minds who are not familiar with who Fritz is, and are not familiar with these witnesses. The type of worries some readers could be naturally having might be: But how are we, the readers, to know how accurate these people are? Are they trustworthy? Do they have a reputation for honesty? Could they possibly be giving false information to discredit a great man of God? These kind of questions can be natural questions for people unfamiliar with how this information was obtained. But we assure you, that what we pass on from these eyewitnesses can be relied upon. None of these worries have any substance to them, because the manner in which Fritz came to find out about Billy Graham has generally been while he was researching other things related to the Illuminati. The author has not been out to build a case, the case has built itself from numerous detached witnesses who have nothing to gain by telling what they know. These witnesses have not come to Fritz to feed him bogus information. Just the paper trail on Billy Graham is very revealing in itself. Generally the information of these witnesses has been confided by these witnesses to their trusted friends. Initially, these witness have had no idea that the information they confided in their trusted close associates would go beyond their most trusted friends. These trusted friends then have had permission to let me contact them or find out their information. The reason why these people are believable is that the information they reveal could get them killed, and second, the manner and circumstances of how the information has originally unfolded has never been in any fashion or method that could be construed as an attempt to give false information.
CLARIFYING WHAT IS LOOKED FOR IN PROOF?
Too many people are considered guilty unless proven innocent--which means that a legitimate search for truth has NOT taken place. On the flip side, we must bear in mind that hidden information that has laid dormant for years may totally reverse our understanding of something. Exceptional circumstances may surprise us, If some item does not lend itself to totally irrefutable, totally unqualified claims, then knowing this, the proper investigator uses words like "almost certainly" and ,,most likely". If the investigator feels strongly that everything is totally clear, he may declare that something is correct "without qualification." This is the nature of proof. We need to understand the qualifications and reservations that often are attached to evidence or conclusions. But we certainly do want to press our investigations as far as possible to get as many "unqualified" conclusions as possible. Of course, by the time we write this, we have already done our investigating, and have one conclusion without any qualification: Billy Graham is working for the Satanic Hierarchy. We want to try to introduce the material in such a way that you will get some sense of the search, so that you will not simply accept our conclusion but will make rational spirit-led critically-thought-out decisions about Billy Graham.
So for the sake of the reader’s investigation, please, let us unshackle ourselves from our prejudices and preconceived labels. Let us suspend our judgment about Billy Graham one way or the other, until we have thoroughly studied, prayed and gained discernment about this. It might be interesting to get some of the Masons, who casually without realizing what they were saying, have talked about Billy Graham’s membership, or other aspects of his Masonic involvement. It’s doubtful that such men would be of any value on the witness stand. Their numerous Masonic oaths to lie and conceal Freemasonry under penalties of gruesome death would tend to have more influence on them than swearing on a Bible. (See Duncan’s Masonic Ritual book, p. 30 for the 1st Degree oath.)
This type of witness, because they talked accidentally and casually are very valuable witnesses to whoever accidentally hears them, but unfortunately they must be assumed to be still loyal to the Masonic Lodge and would be hostile witnesses that will not cooperate. If this were an actual court of law, depositions of Billy Graham’ s staff could be taken, so that it could be revealed to the court how many times they have lied. By showing their lies, their testimony would be impeached and Christians would realize that Billy Graham’s staff have played a major role in the deception. This article will put forth evidence that impeaches the testimony of Billy Graham’s staff. We must refer readers to the Be Wise As Serpents book and other writings of Fritz for more information. Also some other books will be named too. Because these leaders are corrupt, they have been participating in the mass deception of the world about what Billy Graham does and who he is. In fact, if this were a court of law all types of people could be subpoenaed to take depositions, and we might find out many more things than we already know.
THE MOTIVATION OF THE CO-AUTHORS
Many people, who like Billy Graham, have imputed evil motives to anyone exposing Billy Graham. As the Scripture say at one point, "Am I to become your enemy because I tell you the truth?" The story about Billy Graham and his life-long career for the Illuminati is not an easy thing for us to write. We do not enjoy speaking negative things against people. We do enjoy speaking positive things about people. And yet no man, no servant of God is above reproach. We can personally have an inner peace that what we have done was what we should have done. Something needs to be done to wake mankind up before its too late.
CLARIFYING WHAT IS ACCEPTABLE TESTIMONY
In some subjects, going to the encyclopedia or almanac will settle questions. In dealing with the Illuminati and high levels of the occult world -- unless the investigator is willing to listen to eye-witness testimony, he or she will get nowhere. There is rarely any written record of their secret activities. But how much stock can be put in eye-witnesses? Many people up to now have criticized Fritz for using eye-witnesses. But remember that if we did manage to get some paper trail or books on the subject, that book paper trail would not be acceptable in court, or even if allowed would not be as important as our eyewitnesses. In court, the written records can be introduced along with the person who recorded them. In other words, the personal witness is still important even with written documents. The testimony of our eyewitnesses expose Billy Graham’s mind-control activities. Still, we want to bear in mind that witnesses have varying degrees of credibility and knowledge. The qualifications of witness in relation to what they are testifying is important. But to simply dismiss all these witnesses because they are not paper is simply to cut ourselves off from many valuable sources of information. In accumulating evidence, the researcher will come upon two types of information. One is prearranged evidence and the other is called casual evidence. Casual evidence is evidence that has just happened to appear by accident. An actual example is when friends of mine met a total stranger who happens to be a Mason and he offhandedly talks about Billy Graham being a Freemason. Casual evidence is simply evidence that happens without the interested party having anything to do with it surfacing.
Finding casual evidence is generally "luck"’, In this case, Fritz has bumped into a great deal of casual evidence, simply because he had his eyes open and has been investigating this area for several years. Because of the situation today in this nation, there is little chance to get a proper hearing of this information. In terms of the future, indeed, the backlash from this book may silence us. The truth will still remain, even if we and the other witnesses don’t. We can draw conclusions about ducks from studying various types of ducks. I can not draw conclusions about radios from studying ducks, I can generalize about American made cars, but I can’t include in my generalization about American cars an ox-cart in India. This may sound basic, and it is, yet people try to generalize by lumping the generational Satanists in with everybody else, and it just doesn’t work. They also try to draw conclusions about the Freemasons on the basis of what the Rotary Club they belong to is like and it just doesn’t work. In terms of trying to get a proper hearing today, one of the barriers is that people use their own experiences to draw conclusions. People have nothing in their experience to allow them to draw conclusions about the Illuminati programmers/handlers who are moral degenerates and programmed multiples, who will do anything, in spite of their nice fronts.
The policies of DECEPTION by the Billy Graham Crusade staff In 1992, a Christian named Richard Bennett, a friend of Fritz’s confronted the Billy Graham Crusade staff. What he was concerned about was the Billy Graham crusade policy (that has been in place since the 50’s) of sending Catholics that come forward back to Catholic churches. Documentation shows that the deception is worse than that, new believers that have never gone to any church are sometimes referred by the Billy Graham counselors to the Catholic Church. Now, why would Richard and Fritz be concerned about the Catholic Church? Richard Bennett was a priest from Ireland who worked at the Vatican, before giving his life to Christ. He knows how the Catholic hierarchy prevents people from realizing what they have in Christ. For those who have read Fritz’s Be Wise As Serpents book chapter 2.2 you know that Fritz is very concerned when anyone gives their allegiance to a power structure that is part of the NWO and part of its Monarch trauma-based total mind control. Not everything about the Catholic church is wrong. Yet, the Billy Graham Crusade could never get the support it gets from conservative Christians if Billy Graham’s staff didn’t lie about where Crusade converts are sent. What Richard and Fritz were concerned about was that new Christians would be sent to Catholic churches, which now are teaching Zen Buddhism, New Age things, not the salvation by grace that these new Christians need.
Granted the enthusiasm of these new Christians might infuse some life into the Catholic church, but a babe in Christ is defenseless. He needs nurture, and the chance to grow. It isn’t meant for new Christians to be thrown to the wolves. Anyway, last Spring and Summer, the Billy Graham Crusade Executive committee was confronted face to face with the evidence of what the Billy Graham Crusade in Sept. ’93 was going to do. Actually, more people than Richard did confront them, but Richard is one of the most knowledgeable ministries to the Catholics in this area. What the Billy Graham Crusade Executive Committee told Richard Bennett was that he had nothing to worry about. That the crusade would never send anyone to a Catholic church, but that if new converts wanted to go there on their own, that was their own choice. Four Catholic leaders sat on the Executive Committee for the ’92 Portland Crusade -- Chancellor Mary Joe Telly, a deacon and two priests. On the Catholic radio station, (and we have it recorded,) Mary Joe Telly of the Billy Graham Executive Committee along with another Bishop Wall Schmidt told the Catholic listeners not to worry that if they came forward they would be guaranteed that they would be referred back to a Catholic church. They gave the assurance four times in that talk show. They said that the decision to send people who came forward to Catholic churches was firm because it had come right from the very top. This was 6 p.m KVDM Portland station. Our recording of this is a record of just one of thousands of lies that the Billy Graham Crusade people have told Christians over the years. In fact, from the evidence it appears the Billy Graham Crusade people say whatever they have to, regardless of the truth.
In the North Star Baptist, Nov. 1964 there was article by Japheth Perez, who as a convert in the NY 1957 Billy Graham Crusade and a brand-new Christian, was sent to a Catholic church by the Billy Graham Crusade. Ian Paisley wrote this comment about Billy Graham’s staff: "Dr. Graham did not reply. He never does reply to letters like this. He states he never defends himself. He does have a staff, however, who are paid to defend him and who are never hampered by facts or bothered by ethics or logic in carrying out their duties. One of the group, George L. Edstrom, replied. The Jesuits themselves could not give a finer example of casuistry than his. It is thoroughly dishonest and deceitful, ...However, since this technique of deceit by misdirection, this failure to face up to the issues, this disregard of fact, and this blasphemous attempt to identify Dr. Graham’s official connection with infidels and his flattery and endorsement of them with our Lord’s ministry to publicans and sinners is so typical of the Graham organization..."
In Fritz’s June ’93 Newsletter From A Christian Ministry, a letter from Graham’ s staff was reproduced with a point by point exposure of its lies. Christians are really not well aware of what the Billy Graham Crusade does. We quote a paragraph from a letter sent to Billy Graham clear back in the 1950s by a Pastor who, grieved by what Billy Graham was doing to the harvest field, said: "Some people say that if you have just one convert in an evangelistic campaign, it is worth the meeting. That is not true. The evangelist, as the pastor and teacher, is given to the Body of Christ. The real test of an evangelistic campaign is not how many people are converted but what kind of a spiritual condition does it leave in a community. Billy Graham is not only failing in the number of people he leads to the Lord Jesus Christ in this day when hearts are hungry and most people are afraid of what may happen in the world and when it is easier to get people converted than it ever has been in my lifetime, but Billy Graham is pulling the limbs off of the evangelistic trees and the orchard is being left in bad condition. As we have often said, the real test of an evangelist is not just how many converts he has but does he leave the orchard in condition so it will keep bearing fruit."
BILLY GRAHAM’S ACTIVE ROLE IN SATANIC RITUAL ABUSE
Before we get into the details, we’ll take an overview. Satanists thrive on power. Satan loves to give his followers power. Satan took Christ to the mountaintop and told Christ that he’d have a "crusade" and bring every one to follow Christ, if Christ would just bow down and worship him. Christ refused. Billy Graham accepted it. We know a great deal how the Satanists took Billy Graham, the brush salesman and made him into the famous evangelist that he has become. Additionally, we also know from victims of Satanism, that have come out of it, that Billy Graham has been a Satanist himself. How can this be? and how can we know this? One of the best witnesses is a Monarch program survivor, who has escaped from being a high-level Pentagon slave. This survivor witnessed Billy Graham working for the Illuminati. This survivor also carried messages for the Satanic hierarchy and personally knows that Billy Graham has been carrying messages from the top secret Illuminati to Presidents and heads of state. This person ’s information has been backed up by independent witnesses. A second ex-Satanist also remembers Billy Graham as a Satanist. Still another person, an ex-Illuminati person, who has MPD stood in front of Billy Graham and watched his eyes. This person said that it was very clear that Billy Graham has MPD and that he switches personalities. By happenchance or God’s will, Fritz received a report from one of the women who went to church with Billy Graham’s wife Ruth. The woman was told by Ruth in conversation that her husband Billy Graham is strange in that he always sleeps with his eyes open. It is characteristic of people who have MPD to sleep with their eyes open. People who have MPD may have a devout Christian personality and a devout Satanic personality all within a single body. This is not uncommon.
In Billy Graham’s case, he is fully aware of what he is doing for the enemy in all his personalities, although his Christian personality may not be ecstatic about it all. Billy Graham’s Decision magazine has on its front page caption is "‘Changed From the Inside Out," and displays an infinity loop on the cover. Many Monarch slaves have had lots of programming around the infinity loop. This is an important trigger to remind them how they are captured by the unending repeating rebuilding programming. There are countless little things like this, which are evidence that Billy Graham is playing a role in the satanic mind-control of the Illuminati. Dr. Schefflin, a mind-control expert, told me that he saw internal documents from the 1950s teaching Billy Graham’s people on how to have a successful revival. These documents instructed crusade counselors on things which were elements of mind-control, such as delaying people from coming forward to confess Christ until the "right" time. If you’ve ever wondered how much Billy Graham knows--if the Illuminati haven’t told him, a concerned Christian named David Hill, who was an ex-Mafia/ex-New Ager/ex-Mason did. The concerned Christian was a friend of Franklin Graham (Billy’s son) and he had lived for two years at Billy Graham’s house. He didn’t realize that Graham had been sucked into the New World Order until he had confronted Billy Graham. David Hill, who was a ex-Mason turned Christian, who had worked with many of the world’s elite, spent 18 hours in a hotel room warning Billy Graham about the New World Order. Billy Graham told David Hill at the end of their two days of talking in this eastern U.S. hotel room that he was "a captive of that [NWO] organization." In other words, after placing himself under the Illuminati’s sponsorship in the late ‘40s, Billy Graham has had the choice of continuing to do his job for them, or being destroyed. Since they created who he is, they can destroy him. And he knows it.
David Hill went on to try to expose the New World Order and lost (was murdered) his life just as he finished a manuscript exposing it. Even a well-informed Christian like David Hill, who tried to warn Billy Graham about the NWO, was unaware of the extent of the deception of the Illuminati’s mind control. David didn’t know about programmed multiples. David Hill, who was a high ranking Scottish Rite Freemason and an important Mafia figure before he came to Christ, had even been the go between for Billy Graham and Joe Banana, a Mafia kingpin. It was David Hill, who innocently believing in Billy Graham, arranged the meeting for the two men. David Hill knew that William Randolph Hearst was part of the Illuminati, He was part of the branch Illuminati -- at what could be termed the 6th degree. William Randolph Hearst was totally into paganism. That is very obvious by a tour of his mansion in California which has been turned into a museum. It was William Randolph Hearst who financed the first three years of Billy Graham’s Crusades. Stu PAK is associated with the Stewart Title Company. Stu Pak provides funds for Billy Graham and others. The head of Stu Pak is friends with Billy Graham and George Bush. The company has a lot of relatives running it. The Morris family is also tied to it, The people of Stewart Title Company are ruthless. The Van Duyn Illuminati family in California also helped Billy Graham’s ministry get started. One of the ways the Illuminati funneled money to Billy Graham was through a monthly check delivered to Jeanne Dixon’s office, which was picked up every month by Billy Graham’s staff.
After Dixon’s secretary came to Christ she tried to expose Billy Graham’s connection to Jeanne Dixon. Jeanne Dixon sells crystal balls with snakes. She is part of the Illuminati. Billy Graham wrote her a letter calling her "a woman of God." Dixon’s secretary had a copy of this letter with Billy Graham’s signature on it, after she became a Christian. In 1952, in Paris, Billy Graham and another evangelist had dinner with two prostitutes and each one took one of them home. Billy Graham had a wife and children at home, so the whole affair was totally improper for an evangelist even if Billy Graham didn’t have sex with the woman. He told his friend only that the prostitute had taken off her clothes and he’d gotten scared and come back to their hotel room. See Frady, Marshall. Billy Graham, A Parable of American Righteousness. Boston: Little, Brown & Co., p.169-170. In 1954, the man who ran security for the Sacramento Crusade saw a high-priced hooker sneak into Billy Graham’s room prior to him going out for the Crusade. Billy Graham and this high priced hooker were alone together in the room, It is this type of thing that has opened Billy Graham up to blackmail. Should Graham ever try to stray from the proper course set for him by the Illuminati, they have plenty of ammunition to blackmail him. (You may ask why would the Satanists from generational satanic families want to intimidate Billy Graham with fear? Why, isn’t he from a generational satanic family? The answer is that the whole Satanic system operates off of fear. Intimidation & fear are standard everyday parts of their makeup and actions. Sort of the counterpart to the saying there is no honor among thieves.
The Satanic hierarchy are in constant intimidation and power struggles.) When Billy Graham wanted to, he could call up Henry Kissinger and say, "Tell him to call me the minute he comes in." (Frady, p. 451) Henry Kissinger is right in the middle of what the Illuminati is doing. Another Illuminatus that Graham had a working relationship with is Henry Luce, friend of the Baruchs. Luce and Billy Graham spent several nights staying up talking late into the night. Knowing how the Illuminati work, it is very safe to assume that they have pushed Billy Graham into further degenerate acts. They have probably done everything they can to pervert Billy Graham, so there is no telling what sexual sins remain hidden. Kissinger is a member of P2 Freemasonry. If we were to assume that Billy Graham were not involved (and that is a big IF since we know that he is), then if one studies P2 Masonic recruiting tactics given in the book In God’s Name, p. 116, then the reader will grasp that anyone of Billy Graham’s stature who associates so freely with P2 Freemasons will be targeted and blackmailed and forced to join. Once they join, new members are forced to compromise other possible targets. Billy Graham is part of the people who implement the Monarch program (which was a joint Illuminati/CIA total mind control program done to people). We know that he is serviced by Monarch sexual slaves (their kitten alters). It is very easy for the network to keep these poor victims (Monarch slaves) from talking, and so the full extent of much of what has gone on may not come out in our lifetimes. Another possible clue about Billy Graham’s hidden life comes from Billy Graham himself. Do the readers remember how Jimmy Swaggert would disguise himself with sun glasses, etc. and his staff helped him carry out what he in part confessed?
In Hollywood, FL (yes, FL!) Billy Graham said that he "often attends loveins and rock festivals incognito by putting on a false mustache and beard." He also said he found the experience in doing that kind of thing "refreshing." This story was in the Chicago Daily News, Dec. 29, 1969. The article’s purpose appears to have been to make Billy Graham look hip to today’s rock and roll crowds of teenagers. Billy Graham described his friendship with Alan Dulles, I make every effort not to let it appear that I favor one party over another. I count Secretary Dulles a friend, but Senator Humphrey is also a good friend of mine, [who he met] ... when we were both swimming nude at the YMCA pool in Minneapolis where he was running for mayor." A friendship with Alan Dulles? Alan Dulles, director of the CIA, was one of the biggest perpetrators of the trauma-based mind-control that this book is about. Humphrey also received orders from the Satanic hierarchy. And what is this swimming in nude? When Billy Graham had his 1954 Crusade, large sums of the money came directly from people in the Illuminati, the Whitneys, the Vanderbilts, the Rockefellers, and Chase Manhattan. Billy Graham has numerous times attended Hollywood cocktail parties. Just two examples of which are: one given by Debbie Reynolds, and another one which was a cocktail party for Hollywood stars put on by Nixon at his San Clemente, CA home on a Sunday evening. Billy Graham’s schedule is filled with activities such as playing golf with people who are in the Illuminati, or are Hollywood types. The full impact of this constant fellowshipping with darkness is hard for people to grasp, because they picture that Graham is an evangelist and so therefore he must go where the sinners are.
There is an expression, show me a man’ s friends and I’ll tell you about him. It’s one thing to spend time with evil to give it a chance to repent and come to the light, It is another to fellowship with evil and allow it to remain in darkness. Let us quote from a neutral source, a group who had been investigating the role of church and state. They were trying to determine for their study whether Billy Graham has had an impact on all the Presidents from Eisenhower to Clinton, This study was not pro or anti Graham, It was simply trying to determine what impact this religious leader is having on political leaders. Billy Graham has spent a lot of time with all the Presidents, so their question was "has Billy Graham had some type of impact?" Their conclusion printed in the Journal of Church and State concludes, .. . .could Graham speak the word of truth - especially when that word may be critical or slashing -to the man in the White House when he is on such friendly terms with him? On the basis of the evidence now available, the answer must be no." What a person does on his free time is said to be revealing. Christ did spend his time with sinners, but he called them to repentance. In all my study of Billy Graham, I haven’t seen any of the Hollywood movie stars or politicians change their lifestyles by their association with Billy Graham. A number of "conversions" have been artificially created, and given widespread publicity by the press.
Pat Boone is the type of close friend of Billy Graham that perhaps typifies Billy Graham. He is someone well-received by the public. Billy Graham has enjoyed using him in Crusades. Pat Boone continued playing in Playboy type night clubs while he was singing at Billy Graham Crusades. Pat Boone who is pro-jewish, may be jewish, because the State of Israel has given him some special positions. There is nothing wrong with having ,,jewish blood", it just explains some of his connections. The Nugen Hand Bank was a CIA operation that laundered money, and did many illegal activities. Pat Boone was part of the Nugen Hand Bank scandal. Exactly how deep he was involved with the CIA’s dirty dealing is unclear. Pat Boone’s daughter Debbie Boone made a hit out of the song ,,You Light Up My Life", the words of the song were written by a woman who worshipped Lucifer and wrote the song to Lucifer. Billy Graham has placed the emphasis in his Crusades on putting liberals, even Catholic priests, up on the platform with himself. When does Billy Graham ever spend time with solid devout Christians? Every time Billy Graham went to Moscow he tried to avoid the devout Christians of the unregistered churches who unwittingly tried unsuccessfully to meet with Graham. Instead, he would meet with the heads of the Orthodox Church, which, since all the changes in Russia, are now proven to have been KGB agents--although most of us had suspected that all along from the type of things they said and did. How naive can Christians get? Do they really think that the Illuminati is going to let a legitimately powerful anointed Christian evangelist have regular access to their people? Don’t Christians realize that if he was a real threat--someone who might really bring one of the top elite to Christ that they would be assassinating him, not wining and dining him.
--"BEWARE OF FALSE PROPHETS, WHICH COME TO YOU IN SHEEP CLOTHING, BUT INWARDLY THEY ARE RAVENING WOLVES." Mt. 7:15 --"BEHOLD, I AM SENDING YOU FORTH AS LAMBS AMONG WOLVES." Lk. 10:3
The Apostle Paul warned Christian leaders, "Take heed therefore unto yourselves, and to all the flock, over the which the Holy Spirit hath made you overseers, to feed the church of God, which he hath purchased with his own blood. For I know this, that after my departing shall grievous wolves enter in among you, not sparing the flock." Acts 20:28-29 Bill Clinton, some senators, and Billy Graham’s son Ned E. Graham invited the leaders of the Chinese house churches to a prayer breakfast in Washington D.C. Three delegates from the Three Self Patriotic Movement (TSPM) and 3 others from house churches were invited, Lin Xian-Gao, Li Tian-En, and Yuan Xiang-Chen. Rev. Ned Graham visited these chinese in person to extend the U.S. government’s invitation. Graham told the chinese Christians that the government would pick up the entire tab for the breakfast. In return the U.S. government wanted the Christians to promise not to speak to the American press or to any Americans comments that might hurt the image of the Red Chinese government. The Chinese government had promised the American government that they would guarantee safe entry and departure for these house church Christian leaders. Then after the meeting, they were invited to Billy Graham’s house. The Chinese christians declined the invitation by Graham. Chinese pastor Lin said, "If I went to the United States, I would tell the truth, not lies. To tell the truth would definitely be considered an act of damaging the image of the Chinese government which would create a pretext for the government to refuse my re-entry into China. But my commission from God is to serve Him faithfully in China only. Therefore, I choose to remain in China rather than to go abroad." Ned Graham (Billy’s son) tried to talk the Chinese into coming, I know that you surely do love your enemies, why then can you not compromise..." The pastor answered, "Yes, we can forgive our enemies for persecuting or opposing us in their ignorance, but we can never love the false prophets or their heresy."’ Ned also said, "It is a glorious and dignified thing to be invited by President Clinton. Many people seek it, but cannot obtain it. Fortunately, the chinese did not buy it. (This info and quote comes from China The Untold Story by The Voice of the Martyrs, Inc., 1995. pp. 25-31)
BUILDING AN IMAGE
There is another area of Billy Graham that we will only touch on. In one of Fritz’s ‘92 newsletter, Billy Graham is quoted stating that he thought UFOs were angels of God. On either Jan. 28 or 29th (See Smyma, Feb. ‘93, p.3), Billy Graham was interviewed on television by David Frost. Billy Graham said he believed people in heaven are sent by God to other worlds to help them in redemption of life, This is edging somewhat close to what the Mormons believe, that "Christians" (that is Mormons) will each receive their own planet to be god of. In another show, Graham said he wanted to evangelize other planets. Fritz has repeatedly tried to warn Christians of the many demonic dangers associated with the entire UFO phenomena, and the Satanic Hierarchy’s connection to UFOs. Billy Graham’s idea that UFOs are good angels is a dangerous idea. Billy Graham was given the contrived artificial image of being a great anti-Satanist. At the Chicago Crusade, 200 Satanists stood up in the crowds. Mayor Daily of Chicago then said from the stand, Billy we have 200 Satanists that want to disrupt your meeting shall I arrest them? What shall I do? And Billy said, No let’s sing a song. The crowd sang a song and the Satanists left the stadium on their own. The whole affair was clearly staged and hokey, but Christians are very naive about Satanism and Billy Graham. This further confirmed to them that Billy Graham was a great anointed man of God.
First, hard core Satanists don’t show their faces in public. Second, the Mayor of Chicago is not against the Satanists, he works with them, and there are reasons to suspect he is one. Third, Satanists, who do show themselves in public like Anton LaVey, want good publicity and would not carry out something like pretending to want to disrupt a Billy Graham crusade. Fourth, if a real threat had existed, Mayor Daily and the police wouldn’t be asking Billy Graham what to do, they would be taking care of the problem. The police don’t need to ask for permission to take care of troublemakers at the Crusade. Christians accepted this episode at its face value. Those who did clearly show the common church goer’s poor understanding of those who seek to control and destroy the church.
How Billy Graham plays a key role in reprogramming Monarch slaves. Two different talkative Satanists told sources of mine about 2 different coven meetings here in Portland in the Summer of 1993 where the covens discussed the benefits that the satanists were going to get from the Billy Graham Crusade. I know one of the benefits for the satanists was that Monarch programees who had become Christians and had deactivated the effect of their mind-control programming were to be reprogrammed with Billy Graham’ s help. When Billy Graham arrived in town, someone on his Crusade staff had managed to find and send out invitations to many of the survivors of Satanic ritual abuse (SRA) in Portland to come to a special meeting to personally meet with Billy Graham. At this special meeting with SRA victims, Billy Graham personally began saying the buzz words to reactivate these people’s programming, especially the Monarch survivors. (This comes from several witnesses.) For a number of years now, the Billy Graham Crusade has been putting messages across the bottom of television screens that has activation codes for Monarch survivors. Those Monarch survivors who have become devote Christians to escape the nightmare of the Monarch mind-control are often not aware of the danger of watching the Billy Graham Crusade on television. When people are activated, special people are in the area and they take the Monarch survivors to what are called Near Death Trauma Centers. These centers are used then to reprogram these poor people. There were five in this area, of which we located 2 and forced them to move their sites. Religious fronts (denominations, individual churches and certain ministers) are used to hide criminal activity. Billy Graham, who is a programmed multiple himself, is exceptionally adept at managing his Monarch kittens. The drug money laundered through his crusades is carefully handled by many Monarch slaves working in shifts and teams, so that the whole scheme can not be uncovered by catching one person. Billy Graham runs big operations all over the world under the disguise of evangelism. Another of the countless religious covers, that works with the Network’s/Illuminati’s drug activities involves the Mormon Bishop warehouses, which are used to store cocaine. Monarch slaves are involved with this. Different religious labels hide the same criminal Network. By the way, when giving the Patriarchal Blessing, the Mormon Patriarch if he has a Monarch slave will use hypnosis and triggers to convince the person what their future will be like. One can’t say this is happening in every case, but it is very widespread for the Patriarch who give these blessings to be part of the Trauma-based mind-control operations. Billy Graham also personally delivers messages to the Presidents for the Illuminati, such as when he arrived just prior to Bush’s decision to launch Desert Storm. Sometimes the papers even spell out that Billy Graham serves as a message boy, for instance, when he delivered a message in April, 92 from the Pope to North Korea’s dictator Kim.
REFERENCES
The following three books were very helpful to me in terms of documenting Billy Graham’s activities, All three authors were interested in documenting what Billy Graham is really all about. It may sound strange that I say that, but sadly most of the books that touch on Billy Graham like America’s Hour of Decision Including a Life Story of Billy Graham are simply part of the deception process of the enemy. However, if anyone wants to know more about Billy Graham the following three books were very helpful for me to document Billy Graham’s activities.
BILLY GRAHAM, A PARABLE OF AMERICAN RIGHTEOUSNESS by Marshall Frady. Marshall Frady was a writer for Life and Newsweek. He has done an incredible amount of research into Billy Graham’s life. He doesn’t touch on the sinister side of Billy Graham, but by giving an honest report about Billy Graham he tears off the "Hollywood-type mask" so to speak that everyone has seen and believed. Marshall Frady simply wanted to tell the whole story of Billy Graham, good, bad or otherwise. He spent many hours interviewing Billy Graham and many other people involved in Billy Graham’s life. When this book was read by a devout Christian, it totally devastated this person’s media-built image of Billy Graham-- for instance, items like Billy Graham going to dinner with a prostitute and taking her home, Billy Graham walking past his wife and not recognizing her, & Billy Graham’s New York crusade refusing to allow street people into the crusade because they were dirty. However, another Christian borrowed my copy of it, and said after looking at the book he didn’t see anything wrong with Billy Graham in the book. But then he just read portions of the book. Still, unless one has spiritual discernment the book is probably not going to "blast a person out of the water," because it is a biography not an exposé. Until recently, this was the only really good biography that was available for Christians . Many months before the Billy Graham 1993 Portland Crusade, the advertisements for the crusade and the crusade activity here in Portland began. Pilgrim Discount, which is one of the best Christian bookstores in the Portland area sells both used and new Christian books. They had a used copy of Billy Graham a Parable of American Righteousness. I watched for months to see if any Christians would buy the book. Tens of thousands of Christians got involved in the Billy Graham Crusade in the Portland area, but none had the interest to read the only biography of Billy Graham available. Finally, just shortly before the Crusade, a teenage Christian from Washington who had been warned about Billy Graham and who was trying to keep from being forced to attend, bought the book on a trip from Washington. This incident shows what Americans know--and what they want to know about Billy Graham is shallow media-hype. A Christian radio show here had the author of Billy Graham A Prophet with Honor on to promote his book, which was done just when the Crusade was days away.
A Startling Exposure- Billy Graham and the Church of Rome by Ian R. K. Paisley. This is perhaps the best book as far as actual documentation. The book is probably rare, and not available. Ian R.K. Paisley has made it one of his projects of his life to expose Catholicism. Because Billy Graham works more with Catholics than Protestants Paisley as a concerned Christian obviously found himself learning about Billy Graham. Ian R.K. Paisley knows first hand how powerful Billy Graham and his establishment backers are. They have a colossal publication strength to discredit any critic of Billy Graham in whatever manner it takes -- even if it means outright lies and slander.
Billy Graham Reformer? Politician? Preacher? Prophet? A Chronological Record Compiled from Public Sources By the Church League of America 195 1-1982. This book is from Edgar Bundy Ministries, It is a collection of articles that have appeared in the public media on Billy Graham over a period of 31 years. Billy Graham is condemned by his own words and his own actions. If people only took a look at what Billy Graham is on public record saying it would startle them. Who is Billy Graham working for? Is he trying to build the Christian churches up, or is he trying to lay the foundation for a one-world religion? While some people may on first thought think that it is a great idea to have every one belong to the same religious structure, they need to reflect on the dangers inherent in one single religious body with all-encompassing power. The groundwork for such a dictatorial global religious body is already partially constructed, and is revealed in other writings of Fritz Springmeier. How many people know that in 1955 and 1956 Billy Graham announced that he had a policy of sending people who come forward at his crusades to the church of their choice whether that church or synagogue is Catholic, Protestant or Jewish. For instance, the Protestant Church Life quotes Billy Graham in its 29 Sept 1956 issue, "Referring to the Billy Graham New York Crusade scheduled for May, 1957, Dr. Graham said: ‘We’ re coming to New York not to clean it up, but to get people to dedicate themselves to God and to send them on to their own churches--Catholic, Protestant or Jewish." There is one other book worth pointing out at this point, It was not a source book for my investigation, but I know the author, and the book came out recently, so it is likely still available. The book is The Assimilation of Evangelist Billy Graham into the Roman Catholic Church by Erwin Wilson. The address is Quebec Baptist Missions, Box 113, Compton, Quebec, Canada, JOB iLO. It’s s nice that men like Erwin Wilson are noticing Billy Graham’s love affair with the Catholic Church. He picked up on Billy Graham’s statement about the Pope, "Pope John Paul II has emerged as the greatest religious leader of the modern world and one of the greatest moral...leaders of this century." (The Saturday Evening Post, Feb, 1980.) However, several of these anti-Catholic ministries are rejecting the bigger picture. They have strongly resisted learning about mind-control and the exposure of the conspiracy in Be Wise As Serpents. Because of this, several of these Christian ministries to Catholics have lots of information about Billy Graham and his close workings with the Catholic Church, but little comprehension of how the Catholic Church fits into the bigger picture, and how the New World Order is actually coming about. There has been widespread concern about Billy Graham among Christians. Because the controlled media don’t report these concerns, people are not realizing the extent of the concerns which have been voiced. Even before the co-authors got involved in exposing the Illuminati and their control over religion and their plans for a New World Order, there has been a long history of concern by devout Christians over Billy Graham. There has been a growing dissatisfaction among conservative Christians towards Billy Graham. The introduction to Erwin Wilson’s book which is written by Dr. Bob Jones (Chancellor of Bob Jones University) provides an introduction to the concerns Christians have about the man who has been set up by the media and the money elite to be their greatest leader.
We quote only a paragraph of what Dr. Bob Jones said, "Some of us who grieved over Graham’s first downward steps toward compromise with apostasy and biblical unbelief knew that he was pursuing a direction from which there would be no turning back. While we grieved over him and prayed for him, we had to warn men against his ministry as we had warned Billy against his direction." The first area is doctrinal concerns by devout Christians, who have been deceived that Billy Graham thinks as they do. Christians usually take for granted that Billy Graham is sound doctrinally. The following paragraph of beliefs of Billy Graham were documented in 1993 by Fritz Springmeier in his June ‘1993 newsletter, with its large document packet. Main line Christians would be shocked to find out what Billy Graham really believes and is on public record as supporting. This will help show non-Christians, who read this, that Billy Graham is not really the Christian he pretends to be. This is not to preach at non-Christian readers, for some of the non-Christian readers will agree with Billy Graham’s stands. These views are written to show how a major Christian leader can have a false public image that has survived mainly because the full public record of Billy Graham’s stands are keep low key. If we are big enough to look at the deceptions of our politicians and statesmen, we must be big enough to face the deceptions of our ministers.
Some of the areas that Billy Graham deviates from Scripture are as follows. He is on public record supporting homosexuality, abortion, his disbelief in a literal hell, his support and practice of infant baptism to save children, his support for the Catholic church’s worship of Mary (yet he calls himself a Protestant). He has repeatedly praised infidels and apostates as great Christians. He actively supported the American government policy to fight the Vietnam War.
He would not challenge the idea that the Bible is mythology, when directly questioned. The deception doesn’t stop with the Protestants, Catholic supporters have been kept in the dark about his abortion views. The deception goes way beyond Protestant, Catholic beliefs. As a programmed multiple who participates in Satanic Ritual, Billy Graham has deceived everyone. The second area is concerns about his support for a One-World Church and a One-World-Government. This stems from l. Billy Graham ’s public endorsements of the World Council of Churches and the National Council of Churches, 2. Billy Graham’s consistent attendance at the World Council of Churches’ meetings, 3. that Billy Graham has done more than anyone in the world to bring about the One-World-Harlot church, and he has done more than anyone to unite all the Christian groups into one organization, 4. Billy Graham’s support of the Pope and the Catholic church which is the largest Christian religion and one of the pillars of the New Age One-World religious body being set up. 5. The support that the NCC and WCC gives him, 6. The support that the internationalists and globalists give Billy Graham. Billy Graham was first asked to do his Portland Crusade in 1993 by the WCC/NCC representative in this area who is a homosexual, a new ager, and leader of the ecumenical movement. A third area is concern over the lack of depth that conversions at Billy Graham’s crusades have, Some of the details on this are l. Only 2% of the people coming forward at a Crusade have never been Christians and are actually giving their life to Christ for the first time, and of these 80% fall away, 2. A great majority of people that come forward are sent to Catholic and extremely liberal Churches, extremely few are sent to solid Bible believing churches., In the Catholic Standard and Times, Thursday, July 16, 1992, p. 10, this Catholic paper reported that 1,900 Catholics responded to Billy Graham’s call to make decisions for Christ in the Philadelphia Crusade and were referred to about 250 parishes. 3. People that come forward are sent even to Jewish synagogues and New Age churches., 4. Converts are given the impression that Christ wants decisions for him, rather than that Christ wants disciples. 5. The people attending the crusades are almost all Christians, due to the high numbers of Christian counselors and the high number of church people which are always intentionally bussed in, (Frady exposes this, and in 1992 a writer of the Williamette Week did a major story for the magazine detailing how she had searched the entire week at the Billy Graham Crusade for an unsaved person and failed to find a single non-Christian. There were a few, but so few she didn’t find any. William ette Week, Oct. 1,1992.) 6. Most decisions at the crusades are for trivial things such as to stop smoking.
Interestingly, Christians with discernment spoke about how hurting the churches were after the Billy Graham Crusade here in Portland. They had been made wild promises of success, they were fleeced of their money, and then given a lukewarm spiritual boost. Their comments reminded me of this warning to Billy Graham clear back in the 1950s as to how he was ruining the harvest field. Part of Satan’s Planetary control is through religious leaders. Christians have been conditioned to believe that Billy Graham is a great prophet of God by the establishment media, who have told us for years that Billy Graham was the most respected man in America, The percentages that the controlled Media have reported for Billy Graham’s popularity may have been inflated.There are several studies that show how the establishment uses polls dishonestly to manipulate thinking. The establishment media is able to create ideas so firmly within the mind of the public that it becomes almost impossible to deprogram people. What people see on T.V. becomes what you believe, The T.V. image becomes real. What actually happens at a crusade is far different from the media image. In Scotland for instance, a poll was taken of church membership one month before the Billy Graham Scotland Crusade, and two months after the Crusade. Church membership had actually declined substantially. So after spending millions of the Christians’ dollars, Billy Graham had not even helped the church attendance of the Scottish churches. When Billy Graham holds his crusades, the churches in the area sponsor the crusade. In Poland, in a nation 95% catholic, the churches that sponsored his crusade in Warsaw were Catholic churches and when people went forward they were sent to Catholic churches. Yet, when the mass media report on Crusades, it is made to sound like thousands of people became new Christians.
Many of the devout Christians that have supported Billy Graham haven’t thought through what is really going on at the crusades. They have been so caught up with the media image that they are not able to critically comprehend that the crusades are really major spiritual disasters. The book for counselors at the Billy Graham Crusade here in Portland specifically stated that only Billy Graham was allowed to proselytize, that the crusade counselors were forbidden to proselytize anyone at any time during the crusade, or else they would lose their Crusade badge as a counselor. (See these instructions in The Billy Graham Christian Life & Witness Course, Minneapolis, MN: Billy Graham Evangelistic Association, p. 47, Instructions A.6.) But thousands of the Christians in Portland who became counselors for the ‘92 Crusade never gave it a second thought that only Billy Graham was allowed to proselytize, because they trusted Billy Graham. Money that could have gone to helping victims of mind-control went toward superficial decisions for Christ. Money that could have gone to doing some serious damage to the evil, has gone for Madison avenue hype and for big shows, On top of this, the large sums that are spent on the Billy Graham Crusades serve as a cover for the Networks money laundering that they do through Graham’s Crusade using a series of Monarch slaves in a complex series of money drop offs. A fourth area is concern over his methodology. A body language expert says that Billy Graham’s talks are simply canned. They are simply well-rehearsed canned-body movements and not coming from the heart. His crusade uses Madison-Avenue sales techniques instead of traditional scriptural methods to get converts. Billy Graham crusades always spend great sums of money for bill boards promoting Billy Graham and bumper stickers promoting Billy Graham, the end result is that Billy Graham’s name is usually promoted millions of times more often than Jesus Christ.
Christianity is consistently watered down and identified with the world and its ways. And a great deal of boasting is done about numbers of decisions instead of real meaningful discipleship. A fifth area is concern over Billy Graham acceptance of Communism. Although many people feel communism is dead, this area is still relevant. If you think communism is dead go live in North Korea, where Billy Graham went in 1992 full of praise for North Korea. See Christianity Today, May 18, 1992, p.55. (By the way, Billy Graham & family have sat on the board of Christianity Today, and still control it, so it wouldn’t misquote him.) l. Billy Graham has repeatedly over international mass media claimed that there was no religious persecution under the communists, 2. Billy Graham has praised Mao-Tse-Tung’s principles, 3. Graham has praised communist leaders on numerous occasions, 4. Dyed-in-the-wool communists who have been the ones giving orders to torture Christians for some reason feel comfortable spending time talking to Billy Graham. The actual heritage and name of Billy Graham There is a connection between Marxism and a group of Satanists called Frankists. One of the strongest satanic cults to take control over the Jewish population was called Sabbatianism. Jakob Frank assumed the role of leader of this group, and afterward this brand of satanism was called Frankism. (Freud’s sexually-obsessed theories came from Frankism.) Frank taught his followers to convert to another religion and hide behind that religion to practice their satanism. (One of several book on the subject of Frankism is The Contemporary Faces of Satan by Ratibor-Ray M. Jurjevich.)
Billy Graham’s family when they originally came over to this nation were of the Frank family which is related to Jakob Frank. After coming over to this nation, they changed their name to Graham which is a Scottish name. Two groups of people who are over represented in the power structure over the last 200 years are Scots and cabalistic satanic "jews." Obviously, not all Scotsmen nor jews are involved in the NWO. Several other researchers independently discovered that Billy Graham’s heritage was the jewish Frank family. However, Fritz was beginning to suspect that there must be some kind of jewish blood in Billy Graham’s heritage, because of the all the things he would stumble upon. For instance, the intimate connections Graham had with Jewish leaders and Jewish Christian ministries. And his assurances to them that they are God’s chosen people, a special group. Graham privately told them, that because they are a special chosen group they don’t need to come to Christ. (Fritz discovered all this by accident reading Jewish literature.) Further, the paper called "The C-9 Report For internal use only" states on page 11 that Billy Graham’s daughters have lived in Israel, and that Billy Graham’s son fought with the Israeli army in the Six-Day War. In the Be Wise As Serpents book, chapter 2.1, "The Jewish author Gerald S. Strober in his book American Jews Community in Crisis, p. 110 states that after a resolution in Feb. 1973 at Pittsburgh by the NCC failed to declare the NCC against converting the Jews, that Billy Graham announced the following day a statement that God had a special place for the Jews and rejected ,,coercive evangelistic efforts." Privately, Graham has assured Jewish leaders he is against converting the Jews to Christianity. Strober also informs his readers (p. 111) that many Christian organizations that are ""Jewish Missions"" take their marching orders from Billy Graham, This confirms numerous reports..." So Strober in effect is saying don’t worry Graham is with us, and he controls most of the Christian organizations that are supposedly missions to evangelize us. Messianic Jewish groups are strongly pro-Billy Graham, Some of these groups have gained in size and then strangely gone back into Judaism. That kind of thing has been happening here in Portland, not to mention other localities. Now it is clearer why Jews coming forward at Crusades have often been and are being referred by the Crusade people to Reformed Jewish synagogues.
How Billy Graham is a 33° Mason. This is an important issue, however, even if Billy Graham were not a 33° Mason, there are many things that he is doing that should warn Christians not to support him. There have been a number of people in casual conversation who have mentioned Billy Graham being a 33° Mason, for instance a CIA leader, a NSA person who is against the NWO, and various Masons. These accidental revelations are what can be considered casual evidence, in that it is accidently heard. Some of the people who have read Fritz’s Be Wise As Serpents book have been experiencing validation of what was written on Billy Graham by their own casual contacts with people. These types of encounters are very meaningful to the people who experience them, but their significance is hard to communicate to others. Hopefully, readers of this, who are truth seekers, will have their own casual-evidence-validation experience. One piece of casual evidence came from a Shriner Clown. It turns out the only clowns who were chosen to perform for the Billy Graham 1993 Portland Crusade were Shriner Clowns. There were non-masonic clowns available, even some Christian clowns, but the masons were the only ones Graham allowed to perform for him. Various people, who have worked in the system for the Illuminati, such as an ex-witch who is now a Christian, an ex-33° Mason now a Christian, and a CFR’s person also now a Christian, all testify that Billy Graham is a 33* Freemason. A woman and a man who are ex-satanists and now Christians also have mentioned about Billy Graham’s masonic membership. (One has to understand that there is a close working relationship between the Lodge and the Illuminati.)
To progress up the ranks in Satanism, they will require you to go through Freemasonry. Freemasonry then teaches people about the symbology of the mystery religions. The lodges bring in female Monarch slaves for some of their Egyptian sexual-magic rituals. If the reader were to get up in the morning and your mother, sister, and brother were in the kitchen and said that your mother had just drank a cup of coffee, you would be able to tell from their faces if they were telling the truth, and you would know that your mother had drank a cup of coffee. This is the way it is for us. We know these witnesses know the truth, and we know they are not making it up. But if people don’t believe that, then they need to go scrounge up their own witnesses, and risk their own hide in doing the contacting. The material we presented here is not frivolous work. As pearls of value, we hope that this research is not taken and allowed to become pearls given to swine. Because Billy Graham is such a key person for the Illuminati and the Satanic plan to bring in the Anti-Christ and the One-World-Religion, key parts of Graham’s life have been intentionally shrouded, When he joined the masonic lodge c. 1948, they intentionally kept his membership more secret than others. Why? They are secret about their membership in general, but even more so if the person is a key Illuminatus and a big key to their religious control, This is why they have kept the membership of Charles T. Russell, founder of the Watchtower Society quiet. This is why they keep the memberships of the Mormon prophets secret, It has been a consistent pattern by the Masonic Lodge to keep these key people’s membership very quiet.
It would be much easier if we had a membership certificate, but for people who don’t want to believe no amount of evidence would suffice. In terms of a paper trail we have the following: · Billy Graham’s books consistently refer to basically only Masons. · Billy Graham endorsed the Masonic DeMolay program for youth as God’s work. This endorsement by Billy Graham is in a Masonic book that is used to educate people about ""the craft"" (that means Freemasonry). That book is The Clergy and the Craft and it says that the people who are quoted in it are Masons. (See Haggard, Forrest D. Transactions Missouri Lodge of Research, Vol. No. 27, The Clergy and the Craft, p. 127. where Graham endorses the Masonic youth program. In terms of witnesses who have put what they have witnessed in writing we have the following: · Jim Shaw, ex-33° Mason -- the highest ranking Freemason to defect to Christianity, writes about Billy Graham being at his 33° initiation ceremony. Huntington House refused to print his book co-authored with Tom McKenney unless they took out Billy Graham’s name on pg. 104, and substituted a general description. (See The Deadly Deception, p. 104-105.)
Only Freemasons are allowed to attend these initiations. (See The New Age, the official organ of The Supreme Council 33°. Wash., D.C., October 1961, p. 30.) Some Christians have tried every thing in their mind to get around Jim Shaw’s testimony. And the Masonic Lodge are now claiming that he wasn’t a 33° Freemason. There is no doubt that he was a 33° Mason. What we are seeing is how important it is to the Illuminati to keep Billy Graham’s membership secret. Originally, Dr. Morey who wrote a book on Freemasonry told me over the phone that Billy Graham was a 33° Freemason and that he had held his membership file in his hand in the library of the House of the Temple, which is where the Supreme Council of the 33° has their headquarters. However, now he denies it and says that he only was told by the librarians that the file existed, but that he didn’t examine the membership file. He wrote a letter to Christian News to the editor which was printed. At least, his letter to the editor of Christian News says that the Scottish Rite have a Billy Graham file.Fritz stands by his original statements about what Dr. Morey said, even though he has gone back on his original story and is getting people to think Fritz somehow invented what he told me. There are a great many things that are suspicious about Dr. Morey. His book on Freemasonry claims that Freemasonry started out a Christian organization. His book was printed by a company that uses the Knights Templar logo as their company logo, and whose company head is most likely a Freemason. If it looks like a duck, quacks like a duck, and walks like a duck--what do you think it is?
Long before I actually knew Billy Graham was a 33° Freemason, I felt that was the "most likely" explanation for what I was learning of him. What caused me to think that way? Everything about the man, just shouted Freemason. The way he talks, who he has as friends, etc. etc. This article is not capable of going into depth about small nuances and details, but suffice it to say that the Masons know how to broadcast to other Masons that they are a Mason. It should be pointed out some of the key people for Billy Graham’s staff have been Freemasons. Let’s look at a few of the key people helping Billy Graham:
William M. Watson--DIRECTOR OF THE BILLY GRAHAM EVANGELISTIC ASSOCIATION, he is a Freemason, and he is also President of Occidental Petroleum Corporation. Chairman of Occidental was Armand Hammer. Watson is also a member of the development council of the Masonic run Baylor University. Baylor University has participated in the mind-control, (See also the expose of Baylor University in Be Wise As Serpents.) He also was a member of the advisory council to the Southwestern Baptist Theological Seminary in Ft. Worth which had at least three Freemasons on its board of trustees, and likely more.
David M. McConnell--DIRECTOR OF THE BILLY GRAHAM EVANGELISTIC ASSOCIATION, he is a Freemason, He was also U.S. ambassador to the United Nations (1968-69), business associate with Illuminatus Charles Gambrell, in Belk Stores of Charlotte, North Carolina.
Arthur Lee Malory--CO-CHAIRMAN of the BILLY GRAHAM CRUSADE Advisory Committee for the 1973 St. Louis Crusade -- 32° Freemason, deacon in the So. Bapt. Church.
Who are some of the primary ministers that had worked with 33° Freemason Billy Graham over the years?
Billy Graham has helped set up other 33° Masons in ministry. Billy Graham has placed his stamp of approval on almost every well-known apostate Christian out there. When Billy Graham had a crusade in Japan, the Japanese minister that he had up on the platform was a well-known extremely liberal Christian. A conservative Japanese was shocked. Billy Graham is also endorsing many of the books, and ministries of these apostates. Some of the three biggest ministers in the protestant world, Robert Schuller, Norman Vincent Peale, and Oral Roberts are all 33° Masonic brothers of 33° Freemason Billy Graham. (See Roberts, Oral. Miracle of Seed Faith, p.9.) Billy Graham has helped each of these brothers with their ministries. Robert Schuller taught principles of church growth to Unity School in Kansas City. A Christian, who used to be on staff there, said that Robert Schuller was fully aware that Luciferian Initiations were going on at the school and that he didn’t care.
Robert Schuller, 33° Freemason, was helped into ministry by Billy Graham. Schuller also participates in the Monarch program and is also sexually serviced by Monarch slaves. Norman Vincent Peale’s form of Christianity called positive thinking is actually only white witchcraft with different names. Peale simply is a "Christian" witch. Norman Vincent Peale, 33° Freemason, his church receive the bulk of people who came forward at the NY Crusade. Norman Vincent Peale is a 6° Illuminatus (Pilgrim Society), and a 33° Freemason. In the magazine Psychic Magazine of San Francisco Peale says of occultist Kreskin, All he’s doing is dramatizing what I’ve been preaching in my writing for years. Norman Vincent Peale controls the approx. $200 million Presbyterian Minister’s Fund. He celebrated the 25th anniversary of the United Nations. He was the keynote speaker at the birthday of the late Mormon prophet Spencer W. Kimball (a secret Mason). Peale praised Kimball as a true prophet of God, and a great man of God. Peale practices witchcraft, and palms it off on unsuspecting Christians under different terminology. The false unity movement which is so strong today, wants to unite the devout Christian with the likes of Norman Vincent Peale. Peale is a good friend of Billy Graham, and Billy Graham referred the largest number of new converts of the NY Billy Graham Crusade to Peale’s church. Oral Roberts, 33° Freemason, helped into ministry by his Masonic brother Billy Graham.
Oral Roberts has been seen by witnesses participating in SRA and Mind-control. Oral Roberts University and the charismatic movement is another important religious front. The Charismatic movement has been infiltrated by multiples since day-one. The history of the infiltration is extensive. Oral Roberts had Cherokee blood, According to some things that Oral Roberts has said, some Christians think that he received his healing powers from an old Indian who healed him through Indian shamanism when Oral was young. At times, Oral does use the same methods that spirit mediums use to heal with. According to slaves who have been deprogrammed, they were in satanic rituals with Oral Roberts. Christian ministers, who have participated in his ministry are saying that they have seen massive swindle in his healing ministry. His university is being used as a programming center. His basketball team at one time had Monarch slaves playing on it. We do not know if they still do. Under the prayer tower is one of the programming sites. Billy Graham, a handler himself, helped launch Oral Roberts University, and is a friend of Oral Roberts. From the Illuminati’s point of view Tulsa is the Guardian City of Apollo. The City of Faith is to be the center for healing from AEsculapius, a demon related to Apollo. While portraying themselves as Christians, infiltrators within the charismatic movement are carrying out satanic rituals to get demonic healing powers. Tulsa is one of, if the main center for the campaign to infiltrate Christianity via the Charismatic/Pentecostal movement with programmed multiples. G. Bromiey Oxnam, 33° Freemason, was head of the FCC churches, supportive friend of Billy Graham, G. Bromley Oxnam has a long history to him of working for the elite, interested readers can pick up his story in Be Wise As Serpents in the chapter that goes into the details about how the Christian churches were organized by the FCC and WCC for the Illuminati.
The NWO is infiltrating the churches via the Earth Stewardship Movement. An attempt was made at Rio de Janeiro to get an Earth Charter but there wasn’t enough time, their were lots of N.O.G. delegates and just in general lots of people to coordinate (4,000 attended). Another Earth Summit was promised, but instead they decided at the end of Sept/Oct of ’95 to have a State of the World Forum to be held by/sponsored by the Gorbachev Foundation at the Presidio, CA. The ex-head of the KGB, Gorbachev is now headquartered in the Presideo, a major mind-control programming site. Christian basher Ted Turner was the chairman of the conference. The cost was $5,000 per person and the invitations went out to only select people. There were 100 handpicked politicians who received invitations, along with Billy Graham and Mother Teresa. This was coordinated with the 50th anniversary of the UN which was being celebrated all over the world.
FLEECING THE SHEEP
The charismatic movement claims to have the Holy Spirit in a special way, however, some seem to be lacking in all discernment that the Holy Spirit would give. There are several books exposing the big name Charismatic ministers. One is written by an ex-charismatic Assembly of God minister. He shows a picture in his book of an Assembly of God flier promoting the "Testimony of J. Edgar Hoover." Yes, the Assembly of God promoted the ,,testimony" of J. Edgar Hoover, while he was known to be a power hungry individual who practiced homosexuality, It was this type of hype that caused this minister to grow disillusioned with the charismatic movement’s so called spirituality. Recently, the spiritual discernment of Billy Graham and many other big time ministries was exposed when these big Christian ministries were conned out of $550 million dollars. Billy Graham introduced John G. Bennett to thousands of people at a recent Billy Graham Crusade in Philadelphia in 1992. John Bennett gave his testimony at the crusade. Because Billy Graham, John Templeton, and Laurance Rockefeller were apparently supportive of John G. Bennett, big time Christian ministries "trusted" him. John told many of the big Christian ministries that if they gave him millions of dollars, for every million he received he would give them two million back. Many of the big Christian ministries gave Bennett money--in fact he collected $550 million (which he ran off with) from ministries such as Pat Robertson’s, Bill Bright’s, Chuck Colson’s, Luis Palau’s, Westminster Theological Seminary, Wheaton College, the Salvation Army and many others. The reader may have heard of this New Era Foundation scam. That’s what it was.
Bennett told these "Christian" leaders "Give New Era one million dollars and we’ll give you back two million." The donations of hard earned money by many innocent Christian believers were lost, However, the Christian believers are partially responsible because the church has refused to clean house of wolves that set in their pulpits. For instance, when Billy Graham came to the Portland area all the various denominations from the most liberal to the most conservative supported him. Only about a dozen churches did not get involved and only one church actively tried to expose Billy Graham--EVEN THOUGH THERE HAS BEEN A MASS OF DOCUMENTATION EXPOSING BILLY GRAHAM AS A WOLF FOR 30 YEARS. When the church refuses to follow God’s Word and supports these men--then they must take some of the blame when these men give their millions of hard earned dollars away to a con artist.
INADEQUATE REACTIONS
When people have been warned about Billy Graham, one of the common responses is to for people to call up the Billy Graham crusade staff, If I ask a biologist a question about biology I can expect to get a credible answer, If I ask a mother about her son I can expect to get a credible answer. But how in the world can someone call up the Billy Graham Crusade staff and expect to get a credible answer to the question Is Billy Graham a Mason?"" The person that answers the phone is likely a secretary, someone who knows Billy Graham no more than the janitor. What does that person know about the Freemasons? Because the Freemasons are a secret society, in general, there are only two basic categories of people--people involved with Freemasonry, and they certainly know what’s going on in it but they have taken blood oaths on penalty of death not to talk about it, and those who aren’t involved with Freemasonry and don’t know anything about it. There are only a few people who are not masons, who are informed about the Masons. The answer of some secretary over the phone to the question, Is Billy Graham a Freemason?" is of little value, because the secretary or other staff member has not had the opportunity to get reliable information. This is from the standpoint of getting a reliable witness, calling some secretary or staff member is simply not a credible response to all the documentation. No court would view a secretary of a large organization as an expert witness qualified to settle such a dispute.
The second catch is that such witnesses are not reasonably unbiased. It is expected that Billy Graham’s staff would front for him any questions that could expose him to bad publicity. This last comment is not speculation. There is proof that Billy Graham’s staff has consistently lied over the years to prevent negative publicity about Billy Graham. When Richard Nixon met with his political buddies to decide who to have run with him, the person he asked first in the smoke-filled room was Billy Graham, I have read the account of this is more than one place, but I will quote Marshall Frady’s description of when Billy Graham was asked who he thought should run with Nixon as Nixon’s vice-presidential running mate. Billy Graham chose 33° Masonic brother (then only 32°) Mark Hatfield. Here is Frady’s description. "His assimilation into the Nixon presidency had already been well underway, in fact, at that convention in Miami when, after Nixon’s nomination, Graham wound up sitting in Nixon’s penthouse suite among the smoggy late-night deliberations over Nixon’s vice-presidential selection: Graham himself, whatever initial uncertainty he might have felt to find himself in such a political locker-room session, soon pitched into the proceedings with his own effusive recommendation of Mark Hatfield: "He’s a great Christian leader. He’s almost a clergyman. He’s been an educator, and he’s taken a more liberal stand on most issues than you, and I think the ticket needs that kind of balance."
In 1992, Mark Hatfield, along with Prince Hall Freemason Jessie Jackson both were on television in July of last year defending Billy Graham’s actions. Mark Hatfield, according to a deprogrammed slave has been a user of Monarch sexual slaves. NY’s Union Seminary is controlled and funded by the Rockefellers. President of Union Seminary was Dr. Henry Van Dusen. Billy Graham made him a prominent person in his crusade and said he was a "classic example" of a mass evangelism conversion, If that is a good example of Graham’s conversions, we Christians should shudder. It is no coincidence that the Southern Baptists of which Billy Graham is a member, is controlled by the Freemasons. Brook Hays, Pres, of the So. Bapt. Convention was a high ranking Freemason as well as part of the CFR. None of the So. Bapt. Convention’s Presidents have opposed Freemasonry. Pres. Bill Clinton, a slave handler, is a member of the Emmanuel Baptist Church which is a Southern Baptist Church in Little Rock, Ark. The late Bill Moyers who promoted the Mystery Religions was a Southern Baptist. Moyers went to the SW Baptist Theological Seminary, the same school run by one of Billy Graham’s staff directors. John Buchanan is another Southern Baptist. John Buchanan went to a So. Bapt. Seminary, and then worked as a front man for People for the American Way started by Jewish Norman Lear, an anti-Christian. People might be shocked to learn of some of the New Age teachings and New Age teachers that have been allowed into the Southern Baptist churches. The Southern Baptist youth program is based on Masonic ideas and is very masonic in its ritual.
SUMMARY
The reader is thanked for wading through a lot of difficult material. The reader can see why Billy Graham may well be the greatest deception that has ever been successfully pulled off. But as Abraham Lincoln said, "You can fool some of the people all of the time, and all of the people some of the time, but not all of the people all of the time." Ever since the early 1950s, there have been Christians exposing Billy Graham, But the control of the Christian media and the Christian seminaries is far more extensive than most people realize. The Be Wise As Serpents book diagrams out how the Christian religious denominations are being controlled, and how the Masons and Illuminati-connected administrators and trustees have control of most of the Seminaries. Billy Graham without a doubt works directly for the Satanic hierarchy. But a rational and fair appraisal of what the man is, and what damage he has done to Christianity will probably not be given much of a chance. Nobody, no matter who they are is going to fool Christ. There will be a real evaluation done on judgment day.
- After numerous letters from the editor of Christian News questioning Graham's alleged Masonic affiliations, a staff member of Graham's ministry denied that Graham was ever a Freemason. (In a weakly worded statement, the Billy Graham Evangelistic Association "condemned" Freemasonry on the grounds that the church should meet the needs one is trying to satisfy by joining a lodge, that joining a lodge could cause a rift between husband and wife if they had not mutually agreed on the husband's lodge membership, and the requirement to take an oath violates Scripture.) But Graham's ministry also admitted that Graham attended a 33rd degree initiation rite back in 1966. Graham's defenders claim that this is how he became alerted to the dangers of Freemasonry.
But Masons are not in the habit of inviting the curious to its secret ceremonies! Can one then surmise that this was Graham's own initiation ceremony? In doing primary research for his book, The Origins and Teachings of Freemasonry (at the House of the Temple in Washington, D.C.), Dr. Robert A. Morey was told that they keep a file on all 33rd degree Masons. Morey asked if they had a file on Billy Graham. The Librarian said, "Yes. Do you want to see it?" But since he did not feel that it was proper, he said, "No, not at this time" (Robert Morey' letter to the editor, Christian News, 9/14/92).
Fritz Springmeier of Portland, Oregon has written a tract, "Billy Graham and the Bible." He gives evidence of Billy Graham being a 33rd degree Mason who has taken secret oaths in blood. In this tract, Springmeier states, "Billy Graham took part in the initiation rites of Jim Shaw as a 33rd degree Mason. This was before Shaw left the Masons in obedience to Christ" (9/14/92, Christian News). http://web.archive.org/web/20011112094705/http://www.rapidnet.com/~jbeard/bdm/exposes/graham/general.htm
DENIAL FROM BILLY GRAHAM EVANGELISTIC ASSOCIATION THAT MR. GRAHAM IS A FREEMASON!!!
Kenneth Copeland 33rd Degree Freemason Exposed
Billy Graham And Freemasonry
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Posted by whitesands777 (Member # 3424) on
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George Bush, Clinton, or Kerry...It doesn't matter..Each year the world gets closer to world government and our own government gets larger and gains more control...
"Liberating" middle eastern countries and installing "democracy" is nothing more than the streamlining of political philosophies throughout the world to further global government.
As each country yields to "democracy" and puts in place a "democratic" system it sets up the stage for the antichrist to come to power.
Take a good look at Europe which is supposed to be home of the antichrist and see their tax sytem...
Democracy today is a mixture of communism and capitalism called socialism...
In America we are currently living in a socialistic government, but it's not YET as intrusive as the EU.
Keep arguing about Bush or Clinton and IMHO you will get nowhere but angry and no matter which of the two you pick world government has gained steam...Yes, even with Bush in office and we have perhaps gained the most momentum toward the new world order with Bush in office...Patriot act, homeland security, and a national I.D. that was purposely snuck in a war spending bill as a cover. To blame Bush for the whole deal would be wrong because there are many others involved in the process behind the scenes that are rarely or never mentioned in the news.
Posted by SoftTouch (Member # 2316) on
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AMEN Whitesands! I've come to the conclusion that it doesn't matter who you vote for, therefor, I'm no longer going to vote.
This last election was a prime example... BOTH candidates were members of the Skull & Bones Secret Society.
Now I know, God puts people in power for HIS purposes. I understand this. But knowing what I now know about 'agendas' in government, I can No Longer participate. God will Still put whom HE wills into whatever positions of leadership HE chooses even if I don't vote. The New World Order will come about with our without my participation, but I choose NOT to help it along, but to Expose it whenever and where ever I can.
Posted by helpforhomeschoolers (Member # 15) on
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You know I have had discussions with Dale about this, he does not vote for the same reasons Deb. I struggle with that because I feel that God put me here in this country where the leadership is selected by citizens of this country and so God must have intended me to vote. I see it as a responsibility not to the Government, but to God to do everything in my power which is limited to my one vote, to elect the best choice between the avilable choices.
I tend to think of that quote....Who said it?
"All that is needed for evil to flourish is for good men to do nothing.?
I am just curious how you view this?
It seems to me that we have little influence on who the candidates are, but we do have a choice about which of them we choose.
God did not birth us into a dictatorship or a monarchy or a democracy or a parlimentary government, but he did birth us here in this representative republic of states.
Do you think that he did not intend us to participate in it? If so, why?
Dale if you are around and read this I am also interested on your thoughts in this regard.
Posted by HisGrace (Member # 3438) on
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Back to topic - I like to go the subjects' own sites. That way I know I am going get a firsthand version and not something edited or taken out of context.
The Billy Graham Evangelistic Association believes: (Statement of Faith)
• The Bible to be the infallible Word of God, that it is His holy and inspired Word, and that it is of supreme and final authority.
• In one God, eternally existing in three persons—Father, Son, and Holy Spirit.
• Jesus Christ was conceived by the Holy Spirit, born of the Virgin Mary. He led a sinless life, took on Himself all our sins, died and rose again, and is seated at the right hand of the Father as our mediator and advocate.
• That all men everywhere are lost and face the judgment of God, and need to come to a saving knowledge of Jesus Christ through His shed blood on the cross.
• That Christ rose from the dead and is coming soon.
• In holy Christian living, and that we must have concern for the hurts and social needs of our fellowmen.
• We must dedicate ourselves anew to the service of our Lord and to His authority over our lives.
• In using every modern means of communication available to us to spread the Gospel of Jesus Christ throughout the world.
Posted by SoftTouch (Member # 2316) on
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quote:
Originally posted by helpforhomeschoolers:
"All that is needed for evil to flourish is for good men to do nothing.?
I am just curious how you view this?
It seems to me that we have little influence on who the candidates are, but we do have a choice about which of them we choose.
God did not birth us into a dictatorship or a monarchy or a democracy or a parlimentary government, but he did birth us here in this representative republic of states.
Do you think that he did not intend us to participate in it? If so, why?
I'll do my best to try and explain why I'm coming to the conclusions I've come to.
In all the research I've been doing on the Freemasons/Illumanti, and Especially on the two DVDs I've just recently gotten, I've come to understand that America is no longer a "Republic" (as it was intended to be) since sometime in the 1930's - things changed. It was around this time that the Freemasons/Illumanti gained majority control of our government and began putting their own candidates into elections. This was during the administration of FDR. The Majority of the time (in any given election), the choice we have is between two of their people. Their people serve Satan. I see our (supposed) choice as being "the lesser of two evils" and I'm not comfortable at all with that.
Sis, you would not believe some of the things that have gone on in our government in order to bring about the New World Order (the Anti-Christ kingdom). I've got to find a way to get these DVD's reproduced (the author gives permission to do this) and send you a copy! It's just impossible for me to try to explain all the things I've found out.
Sorry I can't explain this better, but I can say that we only 'think' that we have a choice or that 'we the people' elect those in office. It's an illusion.
Posted by SoftTouch (Member # 2316) on
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quote:
Originally posted by HisGrace:
The Billy Graham Evangelistic Association believes: (Statement of Faith)
This means Absolutely Nothing. I HEARD and SAW Graham say that people will go to heaven even if they don't know Christ. That's what he's teaching! Haven't you read anything on here? Why do you constantly defend False Teachers? Plenty of people have given you EYEWITNESS TESTIMONY of the heresies of certain teachers and yet you Still Refuse to see the truth. I'll keep praying for you!
Posted by HisGrace (Member # 3438) on
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quote:
Originally posted by SoftTouch:
I HEARD and SAW Graham say that people will go to heaven even if they don't know Christ.
Absolutely ridiculous - something has been lost in the translation. I have heard him say something to the effect that Jesus loves the Muslims, Catholics, etc., but I am absolutely positive that he believes in the cross for redemption.
In fact I heard in a little clipet in one of his sites, with own words, that "All have sinned and come short of the glory of God" and that we all have to be born again and forgiven of our sins. He also said that we should honour the Ten Commandments.
Posted by TEXASGRANDMA (Member # 847) on
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If you go back and read past post of mine you will see how much I admire Rev. Billy Graham. Yet, if he is telling people that as long as they believe in God they are going to Heaven, he is making a grave mistake. The Bible says even the demons in hell believe in God. True, he may have the truth of God’s Word on his web site, but how many people is he giving a false sense of hope, that will never go to his web site?
It seems to be that he is falling over backwards trying to keep from offending people of different religions. Is he really doing them a favor, if he implies that they will go to Heaven, when it is not true?
While I can appreciate that he wants to end his ministry on a peaceful note, this is the wrong way to do so. The truth is as we get closer to the Lord’s return, we as Christians will have to rock the boat. Yes smooth sailing is nice and peaceful, but this is not what Jesus promised us. We must stand up for the truth. Christians who preach and teach that the only way to Heaven are already considered radicals, in the days to come we will be consider hatters of those who do not believe like we do. We will be looked down on and consider pathetic weak minded people.
May God give us the strength to stand up for the truth and may Jesus return for HIS Church soon!
betty
Posted by HisGrace (Member # 3438) on
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I carefully read Billy Graham's interview with Larry King and I see no compromise at all. If people want to misinterpret what he said, of course that can always been done if someone is already ready to pick at straws.
GRAHAM: Because I know what's ahead. It's a paradise that we are going to go into, because to be in the presence of God itself will be a paradise. And I have total, total certainty of that from scripture. And I believe the Bible. I believe that I have received Jesus Christ into my heart. I believe that he has covered all of my sins.
That shows that this is his strong belief and that is what he preaches.
Posted by helpforhomeschoolers (Member # 15) on
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Which interview do you speak of?
Posted by Gramajo320 (Member # 4667) on
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His Grace, yes that is exactly what Billy Graham has always preached and is exactly what he has always believed. He follows Jesus Christ and his teachings and he preaches it. His statement of faith says it also. God will expose all of the non-truths about Billy Graham that are circulating about for exactly what they are non-truths.
Posted by HisGrace (Member # 3438) on
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quote:
Originally posted by helpforhomeschoolers:
Which interview do you speak of?
His last one with Larry King - it was re-broadcasted on Sunday night.
Posted by helpforhomeschoolers (Member # 15) on
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Thank you.
Posted by Carmela (Member # 4817) on
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I agree with RedKermitand Eduardo Grequi. I think that we in this forum are spending way too much time bashing others, when what we should be doing is 1)praying for them and 2) seeking God for ourselves. The more time spent bashing other preachers and looking for negative things to say about them, the less time we are spending in God's word. I don't see God's word being taught or glorified anywhere in this post. I think we need to step back and put our focus back where it belongs.
HFHS said: quote:
God’s Word instructs us to be Bereans. Like those early Christians, we are to search the Scriptures and we are to compare all that we hear with the unchanging, inspired Word of God. Following after a man, no matter how much good he has done at some point in his ministerial career, is risky business. The Apostle Paul warned repeatedly in the Epistles about those who would change and subvert the true Gospel.
I agree. However, when Billy Graham stands before the throne on his appointed day, He will be standing there alone. He will be accountable for his sins. So...what good does it do for us to sit here and bash him? It's none of our concern. Our concern is to follow God and not man. Our concern is to compare what is spoken by others with God's word and choose if we are to accept that word or not. Not to runt he messenger down since none of us are any more perfect then Billy Graham. We seem to forget that he too is only human. I bet if each of us think back through our day, we can think of several things that we have done that did not reflect Jesus. The only difference is that they are well known, we are not. However, we are still doing what we believe is right to lead people to Christ just like Billy Graham is doing.
When we vote, we don't vote for the one we think is best. We pray and ask God "who do you want me to vote for?" God doesn't make mistakes like we do.
I didn't read all of the posts yet but I think this is long enough so I will end here.
Posted by Gramajo320 (Member # 4667) on
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Carmela,
I totally agree with your posting and also with Red Kermit's and Eduardo's posting. There has been so much time spent in bashing two ministers and that is in no way glorifying to God. It most definitely takes the focus entirely off of God (something that satan really loves) when the focus should be on God and not on bashing or being so entirely negative. I know that both Joel Osteen and Billy Graham preach the gospel of Jesus Christ and they've led ever so many many people to Jesus Christ.
Posted by SoftTouch (Member # 2316) on
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quote:
Ephesians 5:11Have nothing to do with the fruitless deeds of darkness, but rather expose them.
This is NOT About Bashing ANYONE, This is About God's Word and Truth and keeping it Pure.
Now, to teach that those who do not know Christ Jesus as Lord and Savior are going to go to heaven (because they seek god) is a work of Darkness. The Bible Tells us that Jesus Is The Way, The Truth and The Life. NO ONE Comes to the Father but by Him.
HisGrace... I'll say this One More Time:
The Interview I saw was between Robert Schuller and Billy Graham. I SAW and HEARD Billy Graham say that "God is calling a people out for himself among the Muslim, Buddists, Hindu's, etc. Rather they Know Christ of not. I Believe They Are Saved." (That is a paraphrase of the VIDEO CLIP I Watched... therefore I can't give you a Link back).
Now, you can call me a liar if you wish, but I Testify that He Said This. I heard and saw it.
Posted by SoftTouch (Member # 2316) on
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We are Accountable to God and to one another. The Bible is FULL of instances where people were pointed out (By Name) as being False Teachers or False Prophets. Are we not to follow the example set for us?
Posted by Gramajo320 (Member # 4667) on
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I will agree to disagree with you but that is all. You have a right to what you believe and I certainly have the right to my beliefs and what I know to be true. I am in no way calling you or any one else a liar and I want that to be abundantly clear to you.
I've heard for myself many many times over those two ministers preach the gospel of Jesus Christ, I've seen them lead ever so many many people to Jesus Christ through preaching the gospel of Jesus Christ. They are in no way shape or form false prophets whatsoever. Maligning them is neither edifying or glorifying to God.
Posted by SoftTouch (Member # 2316) on
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Here is a paraphrased quote from an Interview I Watched (4 Times in fact to be sure I heard it right because I have it on DVD). Robert Schuller is interviewing Billy Graham:
In this interview Billy Graham says: “God is calling a people out for himself. Among the Muslim, Buddist, Hindu, all people, rather they know Christ or not. I believe they are saved.” (paraphrase)
When Robert Schuller heard Billy Graham make this pronouncement, he was Thrilled. Schuller then said "There is a wideness in god's mercy."
Now I ask you... IS THIS The Gospel of Jesus Christ? Is this Even Biblical?
Posted by Gramajo320 (Member # 4667) on
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It's time to focus on God and that's what I prefer to do now.
Posted by HisGrace (Member # 3438) on
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quote:
Originally posted by SoftTouch:
Now, you can call me a liar if you wish, but I Testify that He Said This. I heard and saw it.
Since the tone has escalated to the point of my being accused of calling you a liar, SoftTouch, it is time I drop the subject with you.
I didn't say you lied. I just believe you may have misinterpreted Billy Graham's words, and sometimes you have been given the wrong information.
Posted by wparr (Member # 891) on
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All this (Graham and Osteen) shows us:
DO NOT put our hope or focus on men and what they may or may not say
but rather
Focus SOLEY on Yahweh and Yahshua and what They say through Their Living Active Word – The BIBLE
Posted by TEXASGRANDMA (Member # 847) on
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Walt,
It is easy to put our hopes in people because they seem more real to us than God. We can see them on T.V. and in person. But we must realize that they are flesh and blood like us. We at the same time cannot hide our heads in the sand and make like this did not happen. Because, what would we say, when our family our friends tell us that we don't have to worry about going to Church or serving God, because this person said we are going to Heaven anyway. We need to know what is going on in order to be able to answer them. At the same time we need to pray for one another. It is going to get harder and harder to stand up for God.
betty
Posted by Gramajo320 (Member # 4667) on
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We are to keep our focus on God and His Holy Word and that's what we do for we are to follow Jesus Christ and His teachings and also we are to listen to the Holy Spirit and to obey what the Holy Spirit tells us that we are to do.
Posted by SoftTouch (Member # 2316) on
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HisGrace, I didn't mean to say that you HAD called me a liar, because you haven't. What I was saying is that you could if you wanted to. I'm sorry I didn't relay that better.
However, there is no way I misrepresented what was said. I wish there were a way to show that clip on here, perhaps then you could see it for yourself.
Posted by SoftTouch (Member # 2316) on
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I feel like we just keep going in this crazy circle on these issues and it never stops. I don't understand why God's Word isn't sufficient to prove these things?
God's word says there is No Other Name under heaven by which we can be saved. Jesus is the Only Way. Graham, Shuller, and even Pope John Paul II said otherwise... what's not to get?
and Gramajo, nice 'Duck' on that question I asked... So, I'll ask it again: Do you believe that what Shuller and Graham said in those quotes is the Gospel of Jesus Christ, or even Biblical at all?
Posted by SoftTouch (Member # 2316) on
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quote:
Originally posted by Gramajo320:
We are to keep our focus on God and His Holy Word and that's what we do for we are to follow Jesus Christ and His teachings and also we are to listen to the Holy Spirit and to obey what the Holy Spirit tells us that we are to do.
I agree completely. Here's something else the Holy Spirit tells us to do:
quote:
2 Timothy 4
1I charge thee therefore before God, and the Lord Jesus Christ, who shall judge the quick and the dead at his appearing and his kingdom;
2Preach the word; be instant in season, out of season; reprove, rebuke, exhort with all long suffering and doctrine.
3For the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine; but after their own lusts shall they heap to themselves teachers, having itching ears;
Posted by dcmbrnite (Member # 4819) on
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I have to honestly say... reading through this thread had me entirely exhausted.. so much so I could barely read through some of the extensively long posts...
There are so many verses thoughout the bible that can be cross referenced to all that has been said and in the tone to which we have all said them.
There are times it seems to me that opinions are defensive "truths" or what have you... "Jesus said this and scripture says that"...
Perhaps its my perspective on it but, it saddens me that instead of looking at this with an open heart ... with an open mind... many of us take what we hear or see as being "Gosple", causing conflict or upheavel... It never ceaces to amaze me how Satan will take one small thing and weave it into something very disheartening.
I was really inadamate about posting.. this or anything after reading some of the posts... Yes everyone is entitled to their opinion... no one is perfect.... But as Christians, are we not suposed to be a comfort for one another? Listen (read in this case) objectively and take care as to what we say, how we say them?
I dunno, maybe I am way off base here, after-all what you read and how your percieve/interpret it, is not necessarily the reality or intent?
right?
Posted by Gramajo320 (Member # 4667) on
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Soft Touch, we are to follow Jesus Christ and his teachings. We are not to malign others and more specifically those who preach the gospel of Jesus Christ and led ever so many many people to Jesus Christ. There is only one person who knows exactly what is in everyone's heart and that is God and only God. Now this is all I'm saying to you on this subject because having my focus on Jesus Christ and God is top priority now.
Posted by whitesands777 (Member # 3424) on
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I should've voted for the constitution party.
Posted by TEXASGRANDMA (Member # 847) on
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Gramajo320
I agree we do not know what is in a person's heart but when their own words convict them, then they have opened the door to their heart.
Sadly, instead of people being upset at what is said, people are being upset at those who talked about it. The reality is Rev. Billy Graham and Rev. Joel Osteen both have made major mistakes. What we need to do is fellow Christians is pray for them. Pretending this did not happen is not the answer. Getting mad at the messenger is not the answer. We need to be mad at the devil who tempted these two to put popularity over the truth of God's Word.
betty
Posted by Gramajo320 (Member # 4667) on
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Texas Grandma,
I most assuredly am not mad or upset at anyone whatsoever so please don't think I am. I honestly don't know why you would even say that. Having a different opinion doesn't mean that I or anyone else is "mad at the messenger" or upset. It just means there is a difference of opinion which I believe we can have if we believe that something is not the truth. I posted to what I knew to be the truth from the many many times I've heard and seen for myself the two ministers preach the gospel of Jesus Christ. Also I learned a long time ago that just because someone wrote something or said something about another person didn't and doesn't necessarily mean that it was or is the gospel truth. I was taught to think for myself, see for myself, and to find out the truth for myself. I will say again I posted only what I know to be the truth from what I've seen and heard for myself. As I've said before I look to God and I know without a doubt that God is not happy with all of the maligning of his ministers who have preached the gospel of his son Jesus Christ and who have led so many many to Jesus Christ. With all due respect to you and a few others, each of you post your opinion so please have the courtesy to allow me to do the same without accusing me of something I have not felt or have not done. I would greatly appreciate your doing so. Thank you very much. I truly think our focus needs to be on Jesus Christ and God and that's where I intend to keep focusing.
Have a blessed night.
Posted by TEXASGRANDMA (Member # 847) on
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GamaJo,
My intention was not to hurt your feelings but to remind all of us that when we get mad at those who told us the truth, or when we are mad at each other, we are angry at the wrong person.
The truth is, the enemy we are facing is not each other but the devil that seeks to weaken and destroy our testimony for God. Why did God put in the Bible about David's sin? He could have allowed that to be left out of the Bible to spare David. But, he knew that we need to be reminded that any of us can fail. We need to stay focused on God and pray for strength. Yes we need to take our focuse off man, but when we hear that someone we respect has fallen, pretending that it has not happened is not the answer. The answer is to pray for that person, that they find forgivness before it is too late. When we see our fav Pastors watering down the truth of the Gospel to bring in more numbers to the Church, then we need to pray that God will give them the strength to not compromise.
Goodnight and God bless,
betty
Posted by Carmela (Member # 4817) on
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Maybe it's me, but I am not upset with anyone for their opinions, nor did I read other replies as being angry or defensive.
However, maybe what would have been best to say in the beginning would have been, we need to pray for Billy G because I heard this statement and I feel it's false. No, I don't agree with what was said either, however I feel I can't judge the man based on something typed that was paraphrased. I'm not calling you a liar or saying you didn't paraphrase right, only that we all interpret words differently at times so I can't go on that. Plus, we only know the basic words he spoke but he may be believing a lie, or he may have a deeper underlying reason for saying what he did that wasn't spoken in the interview. Many times I have said things that were misinterpreted. I'm also sure there have been times when all of us have spoken things that were not true and God later revealed the truth to us.
I'm not going to come back to this post because I think we have beaten this subject to death.
Oh, If I were witnessing to someone or talking to a friend, I might mention that I had just heard Billy G. say something that I don't see lining up with God's word so I don't call that bashing. What is bashing in my opinion is to totally throw away an entire ministry based on a mistake someone may have made....especially since we have all made them and we always will.
I don't agree with glorifying Bill Clinton AT ALL. He has proven himself to be untrustworthy to the Christian public. He used Christianity to get into the White House, then he shunned our entire nation and made it a laughing stock to foreign countries that were probably laughing at our leadership. However, we are all human (I'm not by any means offending what he did) and I hope and pray that Bill Clinton has repented and will truly follow God some day. I pray him instead of persecute him.
Maybe the post should have originally said....lets pray for Joe O or Billy G.
Posted by Gramajo320 (Member # 4667) on
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Texas Grandma,
You will please give me the courtesy of not twisting my words nor the intent of my postings and please quit trying to read into my posting something that quite simply is not there. For you to do so is very erroneous and I'm certain that you know that so I am asking you to please stop it.
I will reiterate the following:
1. I posted only what I know to be the truth by
stating what I know to be the truth because I
observed it and heard it for myself which is
the whole truth. Each and every time I've
seen them and heard what they said they have
certainly preached the gospel of Jesus
Christ and have led ever so many many people
to Jesus Christ.
2. I have not and I am not mad or upset with
you or anyone else whatsoever so please
quit trying to make it look and sound like
I felt or feel something that I absolutely do
not feel. You most assuredly have not hurt
my feelings whatsoever so please quit saying,
thinking that you have. I know you like to
have everyone agree with you and with your
close friends. I also know that you don't
like it if someone agrees to disagree or
just disagrees with you and your friends.
Please remember that each person on this board
is an individual and each person has an
equal right to voice their own opinion so
I'm asking you to please respect their
rights and mine as much as you respect the
right of your close friends to voice their
opinion.
3. I most definitely agree with Carmela's
statement that this thread has been beaten
to death. God and Jesus Christ definitely
should be our focus and for myself they are
my focus.
Posted by redkermit (Member # 4059) on
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Soft Touch,
You may have already mentioned this, but I'm sorry, I do not want to read this entire thread again, so I'm asking.
Where did this DVD come from that has the interview you keep referring to? If you do not have a way to copy them (as you mentioned), or the resources to host them online and provide a link, can you please provide the web site you ordered them from?
One thing that came to mind, and I'm not saying this is the case here, is that video is so easy to manipulate. Editing has a way of making people say and do things they didn't mean. It can show a totally different meaning than the original context. For example, someone could say, "I was accused of saying, 'I hate gays'". It is so easy to edit out the first part, and show the person saying, "I hate gays".
Anyway, I would like to look into getting these DVD's myself. Thanks in advance!
Posted by HisGrace (Member # 3438) on
:
quote:
Originally posted by redkermit:
Soft Touch,
One thing that came to mind, and I'm not saying this is the case here, is that video is so easy to manipulate. Editing has a way of making people say and do things they didn't mean. It can show a totally different meaning than the original context. For example, someone could say, "I was accused of saying, 'I hate gays'". It is so easy to edit out the first part, and show the person saying, "I hate gays".
AMEN, AMEN AND THEN AMEN AGAIN!! That's why I don't understand why people aren't using the preachers' own websites. There is usually enough infomation on them so that we can find what their fundamental beliefs are, but I guess that's not stimulating and exciting enough.
Posted by SoftTouch (Member # 2316) on
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Redkermit,
The Video is called "The Shocker" and I bought it from The Cutting Edge Ministries. They did not produce this video, they just sell it. It is a seminar held by the Pastor (I dont' know his name) of "Hope For America Minstry." The clip that I'm referring to is listed as the Number One Shocker (out of 12).
You can order this video here:http://cuttingedge.org/detail.cfm?ID=884
Posted by SoftTouch (Member # 2316) on
:
I found a transcript of the video clip here: http://www.wayoflife.org/fbns/grahambelieves.htm
This is not a paraphrase, but word for word what this clip says:
SCHULLER: Tell me, what do you think is the future of Christianity?
GRAHAM: Well, Christianity and being a true believer--you know, I think there's the Body of Christ. This comes from all the Christian groups around the world, outside the Christian groups. I think everybody that loves Christ, or knows Christ, whether they're conscious of it or not, they're members of the Body of Christ. And I don't think that we're going to see a great sweeping revival, that will turn the whole world to Christ at any time. I think James answered that, the Apostle James in the first council in Jerusalem, when he said that God's purpose for this age is to call out a people for His name. And that's what God is doing today, He's calling people out of the world for His name, whether they come from the Muslim world, or the Buddhist world, or the Christian world or the non-believing world, they are members of the Body of Christ because they've been called by God. They may not even know the name of Jesus but they know in their hearts that they need something that they don't have, and they turn to the only light that they have, and I think that they are saved, and that they're going to be with us in heaven.
SCHULLER: What, what I hear you saying that it's possible for Jesus Christ to come into human hearts and soul and life, even if they've been born in darkness and have never had exposure to the Bible. Is that a correct interpretation of what you're saying?
GRAHAM: Yes, it is, because I believe that. I've met people in various parts of the world in tribal situations, that they have never seen a Bible or heard about a Bible, and never heard of Jesus, but they've believed in their hearts that there was a God, and they've tried to live a life that was quite apart from the surrounding community in which they lived.
SCHULLER: [R. S. trips over his tongue for a moment, his face beaming, then says] I'm so thrilled to hear you say this. There's a wideness in God's mercy.
Posted by SoftTouch (Member # 2316) on
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Acts 4:
11This is the stone which was set at nought of you builders, which is become the head of the corner.
12Neither is there salvation in any other: for there is none other name under heaven given among men, whereby we must be saved.
John 14:6Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me.
Posted by Carmela (Member # 4817) on
:
Hmmm, seems to me that buying a video filled with other people's mistakes isn't the type of video I would want to buy. I don't expect people to turn their head and ignore what has been said, but publically ridiculing people for one mistake or a couple they have made when they have been in ministry for years isn't the right way to go about it.
God has revealed to me when I have been wrong, I think He is big enough to open another's eyes when they are wrong also.
Posted by peh (Member # 4446) on
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Okay, Softouch, you posted
quote:
We are Accountable to God and to one another. The Bible is FULL of instances where people were pointed out (By Name) as being False Teachers or False Prophets. Are we not to follow the example set for us?
Please be so kind as to provide an example of the instances where people are pointed out as being false teachers/prophets in Scripture.
Or no, allow me: Deut 13:1 If there arise among you a prophet, or a dreamer of dreams, and giveth thee a sign or a wonder, 2 And the sign or the wonder come to pass, whereof he spake unto thee, saying, Let us go after other gods, which thou hast not known, and let us serve them; 3 Thou shalt not hearken unto the words of that prophet, or that dreamer of dreams: for the LORD your God proveth you, to know whether ye love the LORD your God with all your heart and with all your soul.
Does this tell you to point out their error to others? To declare them false? No, it says verse 5 "And that prophet, or that dreamer of dreams, shall be put to death". Shall we kill the ones whose teaching you find false or that the websites you quote declare to be false?
You ready? Pick up the first stone.
Or, is this possibly more fit advice for the situation? Deut 18:22 "When a prophet speaketh in the name of the LORD, if the thing follow not, nor come to pass, that is the thing which the LORD hath not spoken, but the prophet hath spoken it presumptuously: thou shalt not be afraid of him." (My emphasis)
Still don't see any "expose him", "talk a lot about him and his errors", "point him out by name".
How about 1 Kings 13:18 "He said unto him, I am a prophet also as thou art; and an angel spake unto me by the word of the LORD, saying, Bring him back with thee into thine house, that he may eat bread and drink water. But he lied unto him." and later in verse 26, the "lying" prophet says "...It is the man of God, who was disobedient unto the word of the LORD: therefore the LORD hath delivered him unto the lion, which hath torn him, and slain him, according to the word of the LORD, which he spake unto him."
Still no public declamation that I see. And apparently God thought He could take care of all the above Himself, not holding anyone else accountable except by direct command to kill the ones trying to lead the people away from Him. Now, if you are going to say someone is falsely prophecying, then probably you better be very sure God has said they are, if you are ready to kill them, huh?
Or, if you think that we ought to move into the New Testament way of doing and being right, read Acts 13:6 And when they had gone through the isle unto Paphos, they found a certain sorcerer, a false prophet, a Jew, whose name was Barjesus:".
And Paul immediately said, You are a false prophet and your name is barjesus or elymas and you are teaching wrong things and here is what you are teaching and prophecying. Of course it is all false, and I need to let everyone else know what you are teaching and preaching because they may not get it or have the Spirit inside to tell them, or lack all discernment, so I have to denounce you, it is my duty to God and the rest of Christ's followers.
Oh, no, that's not what fearless leader Paul did, is it? Nope, he "being filled with the Holy Ghost, set his eyes on him, 10 And said, O full of all subtilty and all mischief, thou child of the devil, thou enemy of all righteousness, wilt thou not cease to pervert the right ways of the Lord? 11 And now, behold, the hand of the Lord is upon thee, and thou shalt be blind, not seeing the sun for a season. And immediately there fell on him a mist and a darkness; and he went about seeking some to lead him by the hand. 12 Then the deputy, when he saw what was done, believed, being astonished at the doctrine of the Lord."
Oh, yeah, Paul spoke directly to the false prophet having been given revelation just as Peter had been about the cripple at the gate. Paul knew it was the Lord's place to bring about the punishment of the sorcerer.
Okay? Prophets can be wrong, lie, and be mistaken, as Elijah was when he said he was the only prophet left to speak for God.
But ultimately we are not the ones who decide who is and who is not a false prophet unless they are telling us to worship Buddha or some animal, now that would seem to be a pretty clear example of falseness. No guessing or quoting of words, or denouncing of doctrines needed there.
You might be very surprised to see who He thinks is and is not a false prophet or teacher.
Posted by HisGrace (Member # 3438) on
:
quote:
Originally posted by TEXASGRANDMA:
Gramajo320
Sadly, instead of people being upset at what is said, people are being upset at those who talked about it. The reality is Rev. Billy Graham and Rev. Joel Osteen both have made major mistakes
In all of the transcripts and quotes I have seen that can be directly attributed to Billy Graham's own words, I have yet to see any major mistakes.
Joel Osteen admitted he made some errors in his interview with Larry King and asked for forgiveness. He has publicly stated that Jesus is the only way to salvation. As good Christians are we not supposed to forgive him? I am sure Jesus is smiling down on him for showing such humility.
Posted by helpforhomeschoolers (Member # 15) on
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quote:
But ultimately we are not the ones who decide who is and who is not a false prophet
You are right, the word of God is. And it does. Out of the fulness of the heart the mouth speaks, and when it speaks contrary to the written word and is heard in the ears of one who holds the written word in his heart, the thoughts and intents of the speaker are discerned in the ears of the hearer.
Posted by SoftTouch (Member # 2316) on
:
quote:
Originally posted by peh:
Please be so kind as to provide an example of the instances where people are pointed out as being false teachers/prophets in Scripture.
The following is a portion of a post from October 2004 that explains the Biblical president for naming names. (I am limited in my ability on this new computer to put together my own stuff. I don't have Microsoft Word installed just yet, so I had to find one of Linda's old posts on this subject.)
quote:
Originally posted by helpforhomeschoolers:
What exactly does God have to tell us about naming names in our fight against heresy? What examples can we find in Scripture for being name-specific? I think the answers to these questions will prove beyond any doubt that the practice adopted by discernment ministries of identifying false teachers by name is not only biblically sound, but absolutely necessary.
PAUL NAMED PETER PUBLICLY. Scripture tells us that as the Apostle Paul was speaking to the church at Galatia, he felt it necessary to tell them of his public rebuke of the Apostle Peter. The whole issue revolved around Peter’s hypocritical actions toward the church at Antioch, which was a major church of Gentile Christians. Peter showed by his actions that he agreed with salvation by grace, but in his treatment of the Gentile Christians he began to pull away and favor the old ceremonial law.
Peter was guilty of unscriptural practice, a problem so serious that it required the public rebuke by Paul: “But when Peter was come to Antioch, I withstood him to the face, because he was to be blamed...But when I saw that they walked not uprightly according to the truth of the gospel, I said unto Peter before them all, If thou, being a Jew, livest after the manner of the Gentiles, and not as do the Jews, why compellest thou the Gentiles to live as do the Jews?” (Galatians 2:11-14). When the integrity and purity of the gospel is at stake, then we have no choice when it comes to the matter of exposing error and naming names.
PAUL NAMED DEMAS. Paul (while in prison) writes to evangelist Timothy and asks him to come quickly to Rome and give him help and company. In his letter, Paul instructs Timothy of the necessity to “...reprove, rebuke, exhort with all longsuffering and doctrine. For the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine; but after their own lusts shall they heap to themselves teachers, having itching ears; And they shall turn away their ears from the truth, and shall be turned unto fables.” (2 Timothy 4:2-4).
Paul then names Demas as one who had left him for the comforts of the world. Love of this present world is often the cause of apostasy from the truths and ways of Jesus Christ. “For Demas hath forsaken me, having loved this present world...” (2 Timothy 4:10). Those who forsake the cause of Christ for worldly living and pleasures should be named and exposed.
PAUL NAMED ALEXANDER THE COPPERSMITH. After Paul names Demas as a deserter from the faith, he names Alexander as a man who had done him great evil. “Alexander the coppersmith did me much evil: the Lord reward him according to his works: Of whom be thou ware also; for he hath greatly withstood our words.” (2 Timothy 4:14-15).
Evidence suggests that Alexander (Acts 19:33) may have been a Christian who had apostatized to Judaism. Paul tells us in 2 Corinthians 11:26 that he was in as much danger from false brethren as from his open enemies. In any event, it is clear that this is not a personality problem, but a doctrinal problem. Alexander had withstood the words and doctrine of Paul and was an enemy to the truth.
Godly pastors face the same problem today. No sooner do they stand for and proclaim the truth than their members go home and hear the words of the Lord disputed by radio and TV evangelists and preachers. There are many “Alexanders” in the Christian church today who should be named and exposed.
PAUL NAMED HYMENAEUS AND ALEXANDER. Paul advises Timothy to “...war a good warfare; Holding faith, and a good conscience; which some having put away concerning faith have made shipwreck: Of whom is Hymenaeus and Alexander; whom I have delivered unto Satan, that they may learn not to blaspheme.” (1 Timothy 1:18-20). Here Paul names Hymenaeus as well as Alexander as two who had abandoned the Christian faith.
Paul had a strong conviction about consistent spiritual warfare, even in times of opposition and discouragement. Because these two men had left the faith, they had made shipwreck of it, and Paul exposed them and called their names. It is worth noting in this passage that Paul is not talking about the faith of salvation but faith as a system of doctrine.
PAUL NAMED HYMENAEUS AND PHILETUS. After telling Timothy to “study” that he might be able to rightly divide the word of truth, Paul names Hymenaeus and Philetus as two men who had introduced false doctrines and heresy into the church. “But shun profane and vain babblings: for they will increase unto more ungodliness. And their word will eat as doth a canker: of whom is Hymenaeus and Philetus; Who concerning the truth have erred, saying that the resurrection is past already; and overthrow the faith of some.” (2 Timothy 2:16-18).
Paul explains that erroneous teachings, when left unchallenged, spread like gangrene. If they are not dealt with and exposed, they infect the faith of many. In this passage, Paul is talking about the resurrection of the dead which is a cardinal doctrine of Christianity. He names these corrupt teachers and sets a brand upon them to warn all people against harkening to their words.
JOHN NAMED DIOTREPHES. “I wrote unto the church: but Diotrephes, who loveth to have the preeminence among them, receiveth us not.” (3 John 1:9). John calls Diotrephes by name as a minister who was filled with pride and an unchristian spirit. He then relates how this man had prated against him “with malicious words” (verse 10). He further said, “Beloved, follow not that which is evil, but that which is good. He that doeth good is of God, but he that doeth evil hath not seen God.” (verse 11). According to John, it is not wrong to name those whose characters and practices are contrary to the Word of God.
MOSES NAMED BALAAM. “And when the *** saw the angel of the LORD, she thrust herself unto the wall, and crushed Balaam's foot against the wall: and he smote her again.” (Numbers 22:25). Balaam, son of Beor the soothsayer, lived at Pethor on the bank of the Euphrates River. His teachings were an abomination unto God, and Numbers 22:32 records that the angel of the Lord told Balaam, “...thy way is perverse before Me.” Balaam was summoned by Moabite king Balak to curse the Israelites before they entered Canaan.
When speaking about backsliders, Balaam is also named by Jude. “Woe unto them! for they have gone in the way of Cain, and ran greedily after the error of Balaam for reward, and perished in the gainsaying of Core.” (Jude 1:11). Balaam’s sin was one of greed or covetousness, as he was paid well by Balak. He was a prophet who was in the work for money, just like some of the TV false prophets today who beg for money from the masses and live like kings!
Peter names Balaam when he speaks of false teachers who “...have forsaken the right way, and are gone astray, following the way of Balaam….” (2 Peter 2:15). In naming Balaam, the Bible condemns the greed of all who are well paid to tempt God's people into compromise.
NATHAN IDENTIFIED KING DAVID. It is a popular opinion today that some people are in such elevated positions of power or authority that they should not be named or exposed. Men in high places, pastors of large churches, and those with great radio or TV audiences are supposedly above criticism. But Scripture indicates otherwise.
David was just such a man in a very high place. Because of his position as king, I am sure David felt that he could not be rebuked by a lowly prophet. Nevertheless, that is exactly what happened when he was confronted by Nathan! Using the parable of the “one little ewe lamb,” Nathan confronted David with his double sin, the murder of Uriah the Hittite and his adultery with Bathsheba, Uriah's wife: “...Nathan said to David, Thou art the man.” (2 Samuel 12:7).
JEHU NAMED KING JEHOSHAPHAT. In many ways Jehoshaphat was a good king, but he was not above reproach. He caused his son to marry wicked King Ahab’s daughter. (2 Chronicles 18:1 and 21:1-6) He also made an alliance with Ahab and went to the battle of Ramoth-gilead with him (2 Chronicles 18). When Jehoshaphat returned safely home to Jerusalem, he was confronted by Jehu, the son of Hanani the Prophet, who “...said to king Jehoshaphat, Shouldest thou help the ungodly, and love them that hate the LORD? therefore is wrath upon thee from before the LORD.” (2 Chronicles 19:1-2).
Jehu had no fear of naming and reproving another king. He understood it as a great mercy for the king to be made aware of his faults in a timely fashion, that he might repent before it was too late. The very same question asked by Jehu could be asked of those today who insist on giving allegiance and support to the ungodly doctrines of the Word of Faith Movement: “Shouldest thou help the ungodly, and love them that hate the LORD?”
Yes, it is right to expose error and to name those “...who privily shall bring in damnable heresies...” (2 Peter 2:1). The whole Bible abounds in examples. It is right to “...earnestly contend for the faith which was once delivered unto the saints” (Jude 3). It was once delivered, and it has never been rescinded, repealed, or deleted! Ministers of the Gospel have been charged with a sacred trust to present the Word of God with courage, honesty, and a good conscience. Faithful messengers will warn the sheep of these heretics and identify them by name. It is not enough to broadly hint of their identity, for the young lambs will not understand and will be destroyed by the wolves!
Posted by SoftTouch (Member # 2316) on
:
quote:
Originally posted by Carmela:
Hmmm, seems to me that buying a video filled with other people's mistakes isn't the type of video I would want to buy. I don't expect people to turn their head and ignore what has been said, but publically ridiculing people for one mistake or a couple they have made when they have been in ministry for years isn't the right way to go about it.
I think you have the wrong impression of that DVD I'm talking about. It's not about exposing Ministers... that's only One of the 12 Shockers... it deals with a wide variety of issues that are just mind blowing... including Government issues.
Secondly, this really isn't about one mistake. This is about a preacher who is world famous telling people that there are other ways of Salvation. There is a whole lot more information in this thread other then just the portion of that DVD that I'm talking about.
Posted by peh (Member # 4446) on
:
And another thing:
You posted: quote:
In this interview Billy Graham says: "God is calling a people out for himself. Among the Muslim, Buddist, Hindu, all people, rather they know Christ or not. I believe they are saved." (paraphrase)
Note: in the word for word Mr. Graham said "I think there's the Body of Christ. This comes from all the Christian groups around the world, outside the Christian groups. I think everybody that loves Christ, or knows Christ, whether they're conscious of it or not, they're members of the Body of Christ. And I don't think that we're going to see a great sweeping revival, that will turn the whole world to Christ at any time. I think James answered that, the Apostle James in the first council in Jerusalem, when he said that God's purpose for this age is to call out a people for His name."
So are you a false teacher because you posted originally that he said, "rather they know Christ or not. I believe they are saved" and he did not say that?
I clearly see in your paraphrase and in the word for word you posted that Mr. Graham said "God is calling a people out for Himself." Out. Out of what? Muslim, Buddist, Hindu, from where would they be coming out?
You highlighted the word for word as "I think there's the Body of Christ. This comes from all the Christian groups around the world, outside the Christian groups. I think everybody that loves Christ, or knows Christ, whether they're conscious of it or not, they're members of the Body of Christ", but missed the phrase just before it which states "I think everybody that loves Christ, or knows Christ, whether they're conscious of it or not, they're members of the Body of Christ"...how could you miss that? How can you disagree with it? Is not the only way to be saved through belief in and love for Christ?
Did you not "come out" of something to "come into" Christ? I know I did.
And let me tell you a true experience of my own: I was praying for my landlord one day, knowing he was a drunkard and a Catholic. And I had this idea that I needed to pray for him to stop drinking and stop being a Catholic. Do you see my error? He needed prayer all right but it was that he might be given "the spirit of wisdom and revelation in the knowledge of him", just as Paul says in Ephesians 1:17.
I realized my error while still in prayer because the Spirit spoke to me, saying, "He is a 'son of peace'." "Son of peace?", I spluttered, (because in those days, I still thought I knew something) "Why Lord, whatever do you mean?
Over the course of a few days, I came to understand what He’d meant. That man was a son of peace, having the mark of God on himself without his being aware of it as yet. I am convinced that if not by now, then surely he will come to understand what he did not at that time, and will turn to the One who can save him from all things through faith in His Name.
Since God knows all things, He surely knows who is a "son of peace" and who is not, by whatever other name they are presently called.
Posted by SoftTouch (Member # 2316) on
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quote:
Originally posted by peh:
And another thing:
You posted: quote:
In this interview Billy Graham says: "God is calling a people out for himself. Among the Muslim, Buddist, Hindu, all people, rather they know Christ or not. I believe they are saved." (paraphrase)
Note: in the word for word Mr. Graham said "I think there's the Body of Christ. This comes from all the Christian groups around the world, outside the Christian groups. I think everybody that loves Christ, or knows Christ, whether they're conscious of it or not, they're members of the Body of Christ. And I don't think that we're going to see a great sweeping revival, that will turn the whole world to Christ at any time. I think James answered that, the Apostle James in the first council in Jerusalem, when he said that God's purpose for this age is to call out a people for His name."
So are you a false teacher because you posted originally that he said, "rather they know Christ or not. I believe they are saved" and he did not say that?
Good Grief... "And another thing..." ??? Peh, Either I'm reading your words wrong, or you're trying to sound condesending on purpose? There is a definite tone to the last couple of posts you've posted to me. Did you even read my reply to your last question?
Am I a False Teacher because I couldn't remember word for word what I'd seen on a DVD? I did post the entire Transcript once I found it on the internet. Let's look at those words again...
quote:
GRAHAM: Well, Christianity and being a true believer--you know, I think there's the Body of Christ. This comes from all the Christian groups around the world, outside the Christian groups. I think everybody that loves Christ, or knows Christ, whether they're conscious of it or not, they're members of the Body of Christ. And I don't think that we're going to see a great sweeping revival, that will turn the whole world to Christ at any time. I think James answered that, the Apostle James in the first council in Jerusalem, when he said that God's purpose for this age is to call out a people for His name. And that's what God is doing today, He's calling people out of the world for His name, whether they come from the Muslim world, or the Buddhist world, or the Christian world or the non-believing world, they are members of the Body of Christ because they've been called by God. They may not even know the name of Jesus but they know in their hearts that they need something that they don't have, and they turn to the only light that they have, and I think that they are saved, and that they're going to be with us in heaven.
Ok, I got the words "think" and "Believe" wrong, and I had the wording wrong about "Rather they know Christ or not" - but isn't that the same as "They may not even know the name of Jesus?" isn't this what he's saying? That these people who Don't Know Jesus are Saved? That's not what the Bible Says.
Posted by helpforhomeschoolers (Member # 15) on
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Paul took to task Peter & James for false teaching at the Jerusalem counsel; probably every one of has taught something falsely. Peter & James did what a Holy SPirit led person walking in the spirit does when confronted with his error. They corrected themselves or repented of what they taught and acknowledged the truth.
Had they not done this, would Paul have continued to embrace them? Did Paul ever embrace their error?
Posted by SoftTouch (Member # 2316) on
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What is the Danger in this teaching?
quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
BILLY GRAHAM: God's purpose for this age is to call out a people for His name. And that's what God is doing today, He's calling people out of the world for His name, whether they come from the Muslim world, or the Buddhist world, or the Christian world or the non-believing world, they are members of the Body of Christ because they've been called by God. They may not even know the name of Jesus but they know in their hearts that they need something that they don't have, and they turn to the only light that they have, and I think that they are saved, and that they're going to be with us in heaven.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I found an Excellent Article here: http://www.diakrisis.org/challenge_to_cm_.htm
Here are a couple of Exepts. One from the beginning of the article, the other from the end. The middle section of this article goes on to explain how this New Doctrine of those who do not know Jesus Christ being saved has come about. This is a lot of what I've been saying about how the New Age teachings have infiltrated the church and are changing the Biblical Doctrines into Doctrines of Devils. I hope you'll read that whole article:
quote:
PROLOGUE
Is it necessary for people to know about Jesus Christ, the Messiah, the Son of God born in Bethlehem, in order for them to be saved and receive eternal life? Will a pagan who does not believe in Christ but who lives a religious and moral life -- devoted to his or her “God” and practising charitable works - be excluded from heaven? Is it right to refer to unbelievers as being “lost”? Is it only Christians who have the indwelling Holy Spirit or Christ living in them? These are some of the questions being asked today by many evangelicals in church leadership and on the mission field.
Prior to the last few decades such questions were easily answered with a resounding “Yes!” in each case, in the full knowledge of scriptural support. But as relativism, sentiment and psychobabble have become the dominant influences in the life of the Church, many are no longer willing to be guided by the plain teaching of the Bible concerning eternal salvation and eternal condemnation, but instead they have substituted either what they “feel” to be correct or whatever harmonizes with the prevailing trends of the day.
We are now in the process of a massive shift in the religious life of this planet. At the heart of this process is the Hegelian notion that all religions essentially worship the same God and are merely different pathways to ultimate truth and perfection. This notion challenges the uniqueness and exclusiveness of the Christian message concerning the Lord Jesus Christ and the need for the Gospel to be preached to all nations. It is part of a dark, universal process by which the very fabric of the body of truth we call Christianity is being torn apart.
In this brief paper we shall look, first, at the main influences which have led to the systematic global breakdown of the exclusive nature of the Christian Gospel. Second, we shall examine the way that popular teachings in the Church today about the indwelling Christ or Holy Spirit in unbelievers correspond closely with those of the occult and New Age spirituality which have so besotted the world. Third, we shall address the question of whether it is possible for a person who hasn’t heard about Christ to be saved.
quote:
EPILOGUE
Popular ideas about a universal Christ or Holy Spirit unconditionally indwelling people will intensify during the coming years and will be increasingly professed even by leading evangelicals. Most church members today are highly confused about all this, with different ideas coming at them from all quarters - especially from well-known personalities on the lecture circuit: deceptive chameleons who say out of one side of their mouths that no one can be saved apart from Christ, but who say out of the other that unbelievers can have Christ indwelling them anyway.
The obvious solution is to seek out pastors and teachers who will ensure that “we should no longer be children, tossed to and fro and carried about with every wind of doctrine, by the trickery of men, in the cunning craftiness of deceitful plotting...” (Eph.4:14-15). Neither should we allow our beliefs to be coloured by fashion or sentiment but only by what is plainly revealed in the whole of Scripture. The right to become the children of God is granted only “to those who believe in [Christ’s] name” (Jn.1:12). It can only be in Satan’s interests to teach otherwise, as the fallen angel, in his closing days, attempts to prevent souls from being saved by the proclamation and reception of the Christian Gospel.
New Age spirituality authors and teachers make a great deal out of the fact that they see the worldwide Ecumenical Movement as being the main tool to bring Christian churches into the planned global New World Order Religion. Listen to the way in which Djwal Khul, the discarnate “Ascended Master” of the occultists and New Age spirituality people, prophesies the planned Ecumenical Movement, speaking through the influential theosophist Alice Bailey, in her 1934 book, “The Externalization of the Hierarchy”:
“Eventually, there will appear the Church Universal, and its definite outlines will appear towards the end of [the 20th] century. This Church will be nurtured into activity by the Christ and His disciples...when the true second coming has been accomplished. No date for the advent do I set, but the time will not be long. The Christian church, in its many branches, can serve as a St. John the Baptist, as a voice crying in the wilderness, and as a nucleus through which world illumination may be accomplished... Its work is intended to be the holding of a broad platform...”.[36]
The “Second Coming” of the “Christ” of the New Spirituality people is what true Christians will recognise as the revealing of the Antichrist. The preparation for that time is surely taking place in what we see today through the “fascism of enforced oneness” in ecumenism, interfaithism and other developments in the religious and national life of this planet. The present castration of the witness of the Gospel through the notion that one does not need to believe in Christ in order to be saved is also a major component in this diverse time of active eschatological preparation.
Anyone in spiritual leadership (e.g. pastors, teachers, elders, directors of Christian organisations) who is not preparing people to mount a defence against the all-out assault on the unique nature of faith in Christ, as effected through the Illuminati-inspired Interfaith or Ecumenical Movements and other promoters of the New Spirituality has abdicated responsibility and is already contributing to the Great Apostasy now in progress. What many fail to realise is that the pretended realisation of peace on this planet toward which these movements are working will merely serve as a harbinger of divine wrath. As the Apostle Paul states:
“For it is when they say, ‘Peace and safety!’ that sudden destruction comes upon them, as labor pains upon a pregnant woman. And they shall not escape. But you, brethren, are not in darkness, so that this Day should overtake you as a thief. You are all sons of light and sons of the day. We are not of the night nor of darkness. Therefore let us not sleep, as others do, but let us watch and be sober” (1 Thess.5:3-6).
Posted by peh (Member # 4446) on
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Know what, softouch, I haven't cared for your tone on a few of your replies, but up until now, I've kept it to myself.
quote:
"Good Grief... "And another thing..." ??? Peh, Either I'm reading your words wrong, or you're trying to sound condesending on purpose? There is a definite tone to the last couple of posts you've posted to me. Did you even read my reply to your last question?"
Condescending? I don't know. I think tired is a better word. And don't bother telling me I need not read your posts again. Now that was a condescending thing to say.
You mentioned someone else's "duck"ing of one of your questions, but I haven't noticed that you answer anyone's direct inquiries yourself.
In fact, many of the things you say about others, including the people you post website articles about, are reflective of your own words and tone and therefore apparently of you.
Let me see if I can broach this subject with you again, you said "The Interview I saw was between Robert Schuller and Billy Graham. I SAW and HEARD Billy Graham say that "God is calling a people out for himself among the Muslim, Buddists, Hindu's, etc. Rather they Know Christ of not. I Believe They Are Saved." (That is a paraphrase of the VIDEO CLIP I Watched... therefore I can't give you a Link back). "
Then in another place you said, "Now, you can call me a liar if you wish, but I Testify that He Said This. I heard and saw it."
In fact, in a later post, you reported that what he actually said was "I think everybody that loves Christ, or knows Christ, whether they're conscious of it or not, they're members of the Body of Christ."
So he didn't say what you had reported you SAW and HEARD him say, and even Testified that you Heard Him Say.
Therefore I ask you, you who print such slanderous material from dubious sources and accuse people who are in the public eye in Christianity of such besmirching sayings, and doings, how is it that what you report can be false and there is no mention of your error? Not so much as an apology? Making light of the error? Or is it that it is only a "little" mistake when you misquote, misrepresent and then don't even bother to retract the error but a dangerous and downright heinous crime when someone else says something you believe to be in error?
Before I give you a chance to reply, I also want to speak about how bringing things out in the open, and by golly, calling it like you see it, protecting Truth and God, how all that works out in the long run.
Back in the late 50's, hear me now, whether you were there or not, the generation of which I am part had a few heroes. We saluted the flag, honored the President of the US, honored our military men, and believed that men were usually trustworthy and honorable. We were not so naive as to believe everyone was any of that, but overall, there was a sense that if we held up our end of the deal, others would as well.
Then the 60's came along, and there were those among us who greatly wished to make all us naive dummies see that there was no honor anywhere. That all adults, especially those in the military and in government, were horrible and the "system" at fault for all manner of ills.
And we all are living witnesses of how well the exposure that started there has worked out. There are families that were separated by ideology back then that have never been re-united. Prayer in school was lost. Abortion was approved.
An unarmed student at Kent State who was my age at the time was shot down by a National Guardsman armed with a military rifle. That for me, and I assume for many others, was the playing of taps for any faith left in America the Beautiful.
President Kennedy was "discovered" to have been a womanizing associate of hoodlums and the "news" gleefully shared with all of us, whether we would hear it or not.
So why am I posting about this? Because the loss of heroes started the 60's. The media had a new "victim" as many times a day as they wished. No one was off limits, and aren't we so much better for having received all that news?
I can hear someone already preparing a reply that says something to the effect of, "yeah, but that has nothing to do with the "false teaching" subject." Doesn't it?
Anyone wish they'd never seen Billy Graham's name on this forum? As for Joel Osteen, who's he?(rhetorical question only). Benny Hinn, Kenneth Copeland? A little bit better known but hardly objects of veneration. If they were to be found false teachers it would not much effect the overall view of Christianity. But now you've brought in Billy Graham's name into your circle of "false teachers".
Do you really believe you are doing any of us or God a service? What about those who were saved at a Billy Graham crusade? Can they at all trust their salvation as genuine when they got prayed for and said the sinners prayer under a, gasp, "false teacher"?
Anyone else as tired as I am of the frenzy to get the news out? To expose and strip of honor? Anyone?
I'll say this one more time, it is not necessary to chip away at someone's reputation. If the teaching is false, show us how it is. No names need be mentioned unless it is asked for. Show us what the truth is, if you know it. And let the Spirit be the one who leads into all truth.
Posted by Gramajo320 (Member # 4667) on
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Peh,
A big amen to your posting and I certainly agree with what you've posted and I truly thank you for doing so. The postings are true. God bless and have a very blessed evening and night!
Posted by SoftTouch (Member # 2316) on
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Peh, perhaps you missed this. I will overlook your Personal Attack as it really doesn't matter.
quote:
Originally posted by SoftTouch: ... Did you even read my reply to your last question?
Am I a False Teacher because I couldn't remember word for word what I'd seen on a DVD? I did post the entire Transcript once I found it on the internet. Let's look at those words again...
quote:
GRAHAM: Well, Christianity and being a true believer--you know, I think there's the Body of Christ. This comes from all the Christian groups around the world, outside the Christian groups. I think everybody that loves Christ, or knows Christ, whether they're conscious of it or not, they're members of the Body of Christ. And I don't think that we're going to see a great sweeping revival, that will turn the whole world to Christ at any time. I think James answered that, the Apostle James in the first council in Jerusalem, when he said that God's purpose for this age is to call out a people for His name. And that's what God is doing today, He's calling people out of the world for His name, whether they come from the Muslim world, or the Buddhist world, or the Christian world or the non-believing world, they are members of the Body of Christ because they've been called by God. They may not even know the name of Jesus but they know in their hearts that they need something that they don't have, and they turn to the only light that they have, and I think that they are saved, and that they're going to be with us in heaven.
Ok, I got the words "think" and "Believe" wrong, and I had the wording wrong about "Rather they know Christ or not" - but isn't that the same as "They may not even know the name of Jesus?" isn't this what he's saying? That these people who Don't Know Jesus are Saved? That's not what the Bible Says.
Did I NOT Admit my Error in wording? Did I not correct what I meant (which is still the same thing, no matter how it's worded).
I Did Answer your question about the Biblical President of Naming Names. Did you miss that? If there were other questions asked of me that I didn't answer, feel free to point them out and I'll be happy to answer them as best I can.
If you want to know WHY I expose such things, read my new Thread on "Seeing The Apostacy..." in this section (especially the beginning paragraphs), and also Read Ephesians 5:11
Posted by Gramajo320 (Member # 4667) on
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The negative articles that are being found on the internet are having a profound impact in an extremely wrong way. One should think of how others view them especially guests who view this board and some who might have thought of joining but have now decided not to do so.
Posted by Gramajo320 (Member # 4667) on
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Peh, I want to thank you very much for your posting and to say I really appreciate it. God bless you!
Posted by Caretaker (Member # 36) on
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In 1956 Graham said, “THEN WE’LL SEND THEM TO THEIR OWN CHURCHES--ROMAN CATHOLIC, PROTESTANT OR JEWISH” (New York Evening Journal, Sept. 18, 1956). The next year he told the same thing to the San Francisco News (Nov. 11, 1957). The Graham Association has turned the names of tens of thousands of people over to Roman Catholic and modernistic Protestant churches. The vice-chairman for the Graham 1984 Vancouver, British Columbia crusade stated: “If Catholics step forward there will be no attempt to convert them and their names will be given to the Catholic church nearest their homes” (David Cline, Vancouver Sun, Oct. 5, 1984). The names of 2,100 Catholics who came forward during 1989 London crusades were referred to Catholic churches.
Posted by Gramajo320 (Member # 4667) on
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The following is a prayer that is in a book titled Knowing Christ. This prayer is on page 16 of this book. I received this a little while back.
Dear Father,
I know that I am a sinner and need your
forgiveness. I believe that Christ died
in my place, paying the penalty for my
sin. I now invite Jesus Christ to come
into my heart and life as my personal
and Savior. I am willing by your help
to follow and obey Christ as the Lord of
my life.
This prayer and countless scriptures are in a book
written by Billy Graham. Billy Graham has not ever been a false prophet and he never will be.
Posted by TEXASGRANDMA (Member # 847) on
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Sending people that come up to be saved back to the Catholic Church or to the Jewish Synagogue is just wrong. The reason they came up in the first place was that they were not getting the message of the plan of salvation.
His comment of not going to attempt to convert other religions is just plain wrong. When people of other faiths came to Jesus, he did not tell them sorry; you need to go back to your home Church.
I have talked to far too many Catholics who think that they are going to Heaven because they were baptized as a baby. I talked to a young girl of 13, who bragged about using the Lord's name in vain every day. She said that she was a good Catholic. I talked to great link with a sweet young lady who told me that as long as she went to mass on Saturday and prayed to Mary that she was saved. These people need the truth.
When a Bible believing Preacher has these people come up for salvation, then they should attempt to convert them. What is the crusade for, if not to convert people?
I am at a lost for words to describe how frustrating it is for me to see people condone this type of behavior by a Preacher.
betty
Posted by SoftTouch (Member # 2316) on
:
quote:
Originally posted by TEXASGRANDMA:
Sending people that come up to be saved back to the Catholic Church or to the Jewish Synagogue is just wrong. The reason they came up in the first place was that they were not getting the message of the plan of salvation.
His comment of not going to attempt to convert other religions is just plain wrong. When people of other faiths came to Jesus, he did not tell them sorry; you need to go back to your home Church.
I have talked to far too many Catholics who think that they are going to Heaven because they were baptized as a baby. I talked to a young girl of 13, who bragged about using the Lord's name in vain every day. She said that she was a good Catholic. I talked to great link with a sweet young lady who told me that as long as she went to mass on Saturday and prayed to Mary that she was saved. These people need the truth.
When a Bible believing Preacher has these people come up for salvation, then they should attempt to convert them. What is the crusade for, if not to convert people?
I am at a lost for words to describe how frustrating it is for me to see people condone this type of behavior by a Preacher.
betty
AMEN Sister Betty! AMEN!
Posted by SoftTouch (Member # 2316) on
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And Peh, I hope you won't miss my reply to your last post to me... it's close to the bottom of page two.
Posted by Gramajo320 (Member # 4667) on
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Unless one knows absolutely everything about each and every church and has been attending those churches and also all of Billy Graham's crusades to learn for themselves then one should be careful about judging. A lot of information that is put out on the internet is full of false information and misinformation; therefore one must have a lot of discernment before judging others. Just because it is written and put out on the internet please remember that doesn't automatically make it become the gospel truth and it shouldn't be taken as such. One needs to think carefully about what is written and use discernment as to its creditability before trying to convince others that it's the gospel truth. Unfortunately very few want to take the time to make certain that what they are told and what they read has the creditablity to be held true.
Truth is based on facts not suppositions.
Posted by TEXASGRANDMA (Member # 847) on
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Lets see I have been to many Billy Graham Crusades and I have attended Lakewood Church. I guess I qualify. I forgot, my daughter's Preacher who was a friend of John Osteeen said from the publit 5 years ago that John had compromised his belifs in order for his Church to grow to big numbers. He said he had caution him personaly about this behavior and asked his Church to pray for John to get things right with God.
betty
Posted by Gramajo320 (Member # 4667) on
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There are many times that hearing something from someone else such as your daughter's preacher doesn't mean it's true either. If you hear it correctly first hand from the individual, John Osteen, in question for yourself then that is a different situation entirely. In many cases that's a good thing to remember. Also discernment certainly helps more.
Posted by SoftTouch (Member # 2316) on
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quote:
Originally posted by Gramajo320:
...discernment certainly helps...
On this point we agree.
Posted by helpforhomeschoolers (Member # 15) on
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Hi Peh: You know I can relate to what you testify about the loss of heros and school prayer and the other events that you listed over the years. I personally think it is of no value that we drag Kennedy through the mud for his impropriety or even Nixon for that matter. People make mistakes and some really great men have made mistakes. These men did not hold themselves up to the world as preachers of the Gospel.
Deb is not the one who posted this article; I am. I posted it because I do believe that Graham has compromised the faith and the word and I did not always believe this. I said in another post that I have loved Billy Graham and I have; for me as a child he was a great man, I have many tapes of his crusades and books about him and at least one that I can think of that he wrote. It gives me no pleasure to hear these things said in this article. But I believe they needed to be said and this is why - I have copied this from an earlier post and it is my heart.
I knew when I posted this article that it would be controversial. I did not post it to tear down Billy Graham, I pray that Billy Graham will repent of his apostate views before his death.
I posted it because I think it speaks to this scripture by Paul:
1 Corinthians 9:27 but I chastise my body, and bring it into servitude, lest by any means, having preached to others—I myself may become disapproved.
I always found this to be an intersting thing for Paul to speak of. I so admire Paul and I cannot imagine that Paul would ever have been able to come to a point that he might no longer be useful to the Gospel. Yet Paul in the back of his mind somewhere kept this thought and knew that he would have to remain true to the Gospel all his days to be approved.
I know that Graham was one who went to great lengths to no ever put himself in a position to be accused of evil in the ways that most of us think of evil....he never could have been accused of physical impropriety for example. His accounting methods and the records of his ministry were always kept with the upmost detail; his own salary and such modest...we could go on for a long time over the things that Graham did to keep his body in subjection and never be in a place to be accused of sin that the Gospel be hurt.
But the sins of the flesh are not just the obvious. We also have to keep in subjection our mind - we can not embrace doctrines of demons.
I do think that over the years there has been a steady progression with Graham to abandon the truth and I post this because I want to show that it can happen to any one of us. We can be decieved. The enemy can lead us down the wrong path. I personally believe that for the elect he can only lead so far before God steps in and interviens, but that is another discussion and is apart from my point of posting this article.
My point is that we must not take the enmy or his ability to deceive too lightly; even Paul perhaps the greatest preacher to the Gentiles of all time understood that he could stumble and fall.
We look at the Great Billy Graham and say...cant happen look at all whom he led to Christ and I yes look. Billy Graham is a man, and men do not lead people to Christ - God draws men to himself and he uses men.., Men do not get people saved...the power of HIS Holy Spirit Gets people saved when men sow the WORD of God.
In the end, it is those that endure that shall be saved. Let us all pray that we be found to endure, as Paul did.
Sometimes even Great Men do not endure.
The truth is not one person that was ever saved at a Billy Graham crusade was saved or drawn by Graham. God draws and God saves.
I dont care how great you are or how much good works that you do for the Lord, if you hold yourself up to the world as a preacher or teacher or evangelist, then you have to be accountible to the Gospel and if you error in preaching the whole Gospel, then you should expect and encourage admonishment, Paul did.
For a man in this position to even give the idea that he might be preaching that you can be saved in anyway without belief in Jesus Christ - The Jesus Christ of the Bible, then this is wrong.
You may not agree that he has done this, but he has done this for more than a few of us, and so it is done.
Even if you disagree with that, there are other issues. The issue of catholicism is another. There are many heros that gave their lives through horrible persecutions to bring to the light the false Gospel of Cathoicism. How can I in good conscience take a newborn babe in Christ and deliver him to Catholicism? I can't. But this was done as a practice. Did Paul deliver newborn gentile Christians to the Judaizers for learning to be disciples? I think not. He spoke against the error of the Judaizers.
Christianity is embracing catholicism. This is a sad day. We should be on our knees to have those precious souls who are lost in Catholicism delivered and we instead embrace their apostasy.
This great man who gave his life to evangelising and once himself thought for sure that the WCC would elect the antichrist, in the end embraced catholicism and the WCC and their joint movement toward eccumenism.
Eccumenism is the religion of the antichrist in the making. You cannot join with God that which God abhors!
Anyway... I will get off the soap box; I just wanted to point out that I am the one who posted this article and I take responsibilty for the posting of it. It was posted with intent that I have stated, and I find it very sad that it is made to be something it is not.
This post was never about bashing Billy Graham, this post was about the fact that Paul himself knew that he himself could after having preached his whole life become a detriment to the very Gospel that he loved if he did not take care that this not happen.
We need to keep focused who does the drawing and the saving and it is not men; all men can stumble; and many many men can and will be decieved and some of them great ones; we cannot esteem any man above what is written.
Posted by hardcore (Member # 4492) on
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Well stated HFHS. And thank you for having the courage to speak the truth, knowing full well the consequences. Paul is indeed a good role model, huh?
Posted by Elisheba (Member # 4801) on
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It's been many years since I listened to Billy Graham preach. My grandfather anxiously awaited the Billy Graham Crusades on TV and I watched with him when I was a child.
I fell away from Christianity (drastically) over the years so a lot of the discussions here are unfamiliar to me, but I'm slowly catching up.
Rev. Graham is elderly now. He always seemed to me to be a man who looked for the best in people and tried to be non-judgmental. Also his age could account for the behavior that has people worried that he's saying the wrong things according to the Bible.
Sometimes I think we tend to place people like him on pedestals and are then horrified when they don't behave as we believe they should.
~Elisheba~
Posted by HisGrace (Member # 3438) on
:
I think we should give Billy Graham a break. After all he is 86 yrs old and may not express himself as accurately as he should.
I have always found him to be the least compromising preacher I have ever heard, and his planted seed is now showing in his son Franklin.
We are now seeing a more frail Billy Graham , with multiple medical problems, and many interpret his more mellow and loving nature as compromising. I see the gentler side of Jesus in him.
Posted by hardcore (Member # 4492) on
:
quote:
Originally posted by HisGrace:
I think we should give Billy Graham a break. After all he is 86 yrs old and may not express himself as accurately as he should.
I have always found him to be the least compromising preacher I have ever heard, and his planted seed is now showing in his son Franklin.
We are now seeing a more frail Billy Graham , with multiple medical problems, and many interpret his more mellow and loving nature as compromising. I see the gentler side of Jesus in him.
No, HisGrace. It is not "his more mellow and loving nature" that we see as compromising. He started down the ecumenical path waaaay before he was old and frail. The evidence has been presented quite clearly. You simply refuse to acknowledge it.
I don't think that any of us have tried to refute or ignore the good he has done, but history shows us another side to him as well.
As much as I appreciate your gentle and forgiving spirit, I think if a grizzly bear was in the process of mauling you to death, you'd still be trying to convince us how sweet and loving the bear really is.
Posted by HisGrace (Member # 3438) on
:
quote:
Originally posted by HisGrace:
I have always found him to be the least compromising preacher I have ever heard
When he preaches he always reminds me of my Wesleyan Methodist roots, when the fire and brimstone preachers used to come to town for revivals. ![[Smile]](smile.gif)
Posted by SoftTouch (Member # 2316) on
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quote:
[I]Rev. 2: 12And to the angel of the church in Pergamos write; These things saith he which hath the sharp sword with two edges;
13I know thy works, and where thou dwellest, even where Satan's seat is: and thou holdest fast my name, and hast not denied my faith, even in those days wherein Antipas was my faithful martyr, who was slain among you, where Satan dwelleth.
14But I have a few things against thee, because thou hast there them that hold the doctrine of Balaam, who taught Balac to cast a stumblingblock before the children of Israel, to eat things sacrificed unto idols, and to commit fornication.
15So hast thou also them that hold the doctrine of the Nicolaitanes, which thing I hate.
16Repent; or else I will come unto thee quickly, and will fight against them with the sword of my mouth.
17He that hath an ear, let him hear what the Spirit saith unto the churches; To him that overcometh will I give to eat of the hidden manna, and will give him a white stone, and in the stone a new name written, which no man knoweth saving he that receiveth it.
Rev 2:18And unto the angel of the church in Thyatira write; These things saith the Son of God, who hath his eyes like unto a flame of fire, and his feet are like fine brass;
19I know thy works, and charity, and service, and faith, and thy patience, and thy works; and the last to be more than the first.
20Notwithstanding I have a few things against thee, because thou sufferest that woman Jezebel, which calleth herself a prophetess, to teach and to seduce my servants to commit fornication, and to eat things sacrificed unto idols.
21And I gave her space to repent of her fornication; and she repented not.
22Behold, I will cast her into a bed, and them that commit adultery with her into great tribulation, except they repent of their deeds.
23And I will kill her children with death; and all the churches shall know that I am he which searcheth the reins and hearts: and I will give unto every one of you according to your works.
24But unto you I say, and unto the rest in Thyatira, as many as have not this doctrine, and which have not known the depths of Satan, as they speak; I will put upon you none other burden.
25But that which ye have already hold fast till I come.
26And he that overcometh, and keepeth my works unto the end, to him will I give power over the nations:
27And he shall rule them with a rod of iron; as the vessels of a potter shall they be broken to shivers: even as I received of my Father.
28And I will give him the morning star.
29He that hath an ear, let him hear what the Spirit saith unto the churches.
Rev. 3: 14And unto the angel of the church of the Laodiceans write; These things saith the Amen, the faithful and true witness, the beginning of the creation of God;
15I know thy works, that thou art neither cold nor hot: I would thou wert cold or hot.
16So then because thou art lukewarm, and neither cold nor hot, I will spue thee out of my mouth.
17Because thou sayest, I am rich, and increased with goods, and have need of nothing; and knowest not that thou art wretched, and miserable, and poor, and blind, and naked:
18I counsel thee to buy of me gold tried in the fire, that thou mayest be rich; and white raiment, that thou mayest be clothed, and that the shame of thy nakedness do not appear; and anoint thine eyes with eyesalve, that thou mayest see.
19As many as I love, I rebuke and chasten: be zealous therefore, and repent.
20Behold, I stand at the door, and knock: if any man hear my voice, and open the door, I will come in to him, and will sup with him, and he with me.
21To him that overcometh will I grant to sit with me in my throne, even as I also overcame, and am set down with my Father in his throne.
22He that hath an ear, let him hear what the Spirit saith unto the churches.
Posted by Elisheba (Member # 4801) on
:
Originally posted by HisGrace:
I think we should give Billy Graham a break. After all he is 86 yrs old and may not express himself as accurately as he should.
I have always found him to be the least compromising preacher I have ever heard, and his planted seed is now showing in his son Franklin.
We are now seeing a more frail Billy Graham , with multiple medical problems, and many interpret his more mellow and loving nature as compromising. I see the gentler side of Jesus in him.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
No, HisGrace. It is not "his more mellow and loving nature" that we see as compromising. He started down the ecumenical path waaaay before he was old and frail. The evidence has been presented quite clearly. You simply refuse to acknowledge it.
I don't think that any of us have tried to refute or ignore the good he has done, but history shows us another side to him as well.
As much as I appreciate your gentle and forgiving spirit, I think if a grizzly bear was in the process of mauling you to death, you'd still be trying to convince us how sweet and loving the bear really is.
-------------------------------------
![[cool_shades]](graemlins/cool_shades.gif)
Hello Hardcore,
You really live up to your name,
First let me say I have so much to learn there's no way I'll get it all before I leave this earth.
I had to wonder what good things could come of the changes several of you describe in Rev. Graham. My mother would be a good example. She had a couple of tragedies in her life that turned her away from church and God - she's a liberal Democrat who has nothing good to say about our current administration. When she heard that Rev. Graham had good things to say about the Clintons, she started listening and broadened her outlook a little bit. Now she's going to church with me.
I'm not saying that Bill Clinton behaved in any way that was Christ-like. However, I don't believe anyone is immune from temptation and sin, perhaps just different ones from what he fell prey to. Also, anything I would do is not likely to make the international news since I'm not a public figure.
When President Kennedy was in office, we're now finding out that he indulged in some of the same behaviors. The difference was the era in which he lived. The press more or less 'protected' politicians - since Watergate that has drastically changed and the press digs and prods until they find something negative to report. I recall an interview Oprah Winfrey did with the late John Kennedy, Jr. She asked what his father would have done in this day and time, in a situation such as the Clinton scandal.
John Kennedy replied that his father more than likely would not have run for public office if he were alive today.
As I said, I haven't listened to Rev. Graham preach for a long time, so I only know the reports of what he said. However, his coming across as a bit more reasonable and non-judgmental was of benefit to some people, including my mother. He made them see that not all Christians are narrow minded, judgmental bigots. Unfortunately, that's the reputation we sometimes acquire among non-believers.
I didn't know he was 86. I knew he had to be getting up there.
I hope I'm able to climb a tree while HisGrace is telling the grizzly bear how nice it's coat is...
~Elisheba~
Posted by SoftTouch (Member # 2316) on
:
Hi Elisheba and Welcome to the Board,
I definitely understand wanting to see the best in people we've known all our lives and have even looked up to as an example. But you did say that you wern't familiar with what was going on. Did you read the first post in this thread, or some of the others explaining what the issues are?
Graham is on record as saying that he believes that people who seek God, but don't know the name or person of Jesus Christ are saved (this is a paraphrase of what was said, but you can find the quote of the transcript somewhere on page two of this thread I believe). This is in direct opposition to what the Bible says.
As far as Clinton is concerned, how Graham could possibly stand by a man who has been a sexual predator most of his public life (and who has Never Once asked Forgiveness - but did make a point to hold a Bible high for the Press)... a man whom is surrounded my Mysterious deaths of many people close to him (who came out against him). How Graham could speak so highly of this man and even say that Clinton would make a fine Evangelist should he ever decide to go into the profession... Mind Blowing.
Then there are the issues of the people who come forward at Graham's crusades. Instead of "Making Disciples" (As the Bible Clearly says to do), he sends many to Roman Catholic Churches (which are totally UnScriptural).
Every thing is laid out in this thread. I know it's long, but if you want to understand the accusations, it might help to read through the whole thread.
The point is that he has Left the Narrow Road and has led many to the Broad Way that leads to death. This should be a major concern for all who Love God's Word and His Ways.
Those who Know their Bibles have already "tried the Spirit."
quote:
1 John 4:1"Beloved, believe not every spirit, but try the spirits, whether they be of God; because many false prophets are gone out into the world."
Then we are told to "Mark Them."
[quote][i]Romans 16:17 "Now I beseech you, brethern, Mark them which cause divisions and ofences Contrary to the doctrine which ye have learned; and avoid them."
One thing you will Never find in the Bible is a call to Defend anyone who teaches Contrary to God's Word.
There is another thread in this section called" What The Bible Says About A Godly Attitude Twards Heresy" that explains how we are to Biblically deal with those who teach falsely.
Posted by hardcore (Member # 4492) on
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quote:
Elisheba:
Hello Hardcore,
You really live up to your name,
Ha! Yes, I most surely do. Nobody will ever accuse me of being passive, gentle, and patient when it comes to discussion - all areas that I most assuredly could use some work in.
quote:
First let me say I have so much to learn there's no way I'll get it all before I leave this earth.
I couldn't agree more. I'm afraid sometimes I give the opposite impression.
quote:
I had to wonder what good things could come of the changes several of you describe in Rev. Graham. My mother would be a good example. She had a couple of tragedies in her life that turned her away from church and God - she's a liberal Democrat who has nothing good to say about our current administration. When she heard that Rev. Graham had good things to say about the Clintons, she started listening and broadened her outlook a little bit. Now she's going to church with me.
What good news. The thought of our Lord using Bill Clinton for his purpose makes me giggle!
quote:
I'm not saying that Bill Clinton behaved in any way that was Christ-like. However, I don't believe anyone is immune from temptation and sin, perhaps just different ones from what he fell prey to. Also, anything I would do is not likely to make the international news since I'm not a public figure.
When President Kennedy was in office, we're now finding out that he indulged in some of the same behaviors. The difference was the era in which he lived. The press more or less 'protected' politicians - since Watergate that has drastically changed and the press digs and prods until they find something negative to report. I recall an interview Oprah Winfrey did with the late John Kennedy, Jr. She asked what his father would have done in this day and time, in a situation such as the Clinton scandal.
John Kennedy replied that his father more than likely would not have run for public office if he were alive today.
You are right. None of us are immune to temptation and sin. Clinton is a sinner just like the rest of us, unfortunately he doesn't seem to have realized it yet. What I found more tragic than his actual shenanigans was the fact that so many Americans excused his behavior and just didn't care. If Bush appears to be drawing a breath incorrectly, he's practically crucified for it. Side note - I'm not a Bush fan either, but the hypocrisy is laughable.
quote:
As I said, I haven't listened to Rev. Graham preach for a long time, so I only know the reports of what he said. However, his coming across as a bit more reasonable and non-judgmental was of benefit to some people, including my mother. He made them see that not all Christians are narrow minded, judgmental bigots. Unfortunately, that's the reputation we sometimes acquire among non-believers.
You make a good point. And I hope that I've made it clear (in other posts) that I don't discard the good he has done despite his fall from solid doctrine and not discipling supposed converts correctly. I am of the firm belief that God can use any of us in spite of our stupid selves!
quote:
I didn't know he was 86. I knew he had to be getting up there.
I saw a picture of him on the front page of the newspaper and was shocked at how old he looked. He doesn't look nearly as good as my 94 (95 in two months) year old grandmother. Hopefully, he'll get some well deserved rest in the coming days.
quote:
I hope I'm able to climb a tree while HisGrace is telling the grizzly bear how nice it's coat is...
Knowing me, I'd try to punch him square in the nose and be the first one eaten! ![[Eek!]](eek.gif)
Posted by HisGrace (Member # 3438) on
:
quote:
Originally posted by Elisheba:
As much as I appreciate your gentle and forgiving spirit, I think if a grizzly bear was in the process of mauling you to death, you'd still be trying to convince us how sweet and loving the bear really is.
From a person who ended up standing on a chair because my kids had a fake wind-up mouse running around on the floor, I can't imagine that one in my wildest dreams. 
Posted by Elisheba (Member # 4801) on
:
Every thing is laid out in this thread. I know it's long, but if you want to understand the accusations, it might help to read through the whole thread.
The point is that he has Left the Narrow Road and has led many to the Broad Way that leads to death. This should be a major concern for all who Love God's Word and His Ways.
-------------------------------
Hi,
Actually, I did read the whole thread. I meant I probably won't learn everything about Christianity as applied to myself, although I intend to try.
As for Clinton not asking for forgiveness; we don't know that. I read that his wife slapped him and I hope she did. But if he went into his closet and prayed, there's no way we would ever know that, or should know. It's between him and God.
I just felt that this thread was getting very judgmental toward Rev. Graham so I thought I'd pipe in. One of the things that turned me off Christianity years ago was judgmental people. Billy Graham could have suffered small strokes, or even had dementia coming on 20 years ago, that would cause him to act 'differently'.
Or perhaps not. If not, some people would describe him as getting more mellow, others might say he's strayed from the 'straight and narrow.'
Either way, God is in charge of it.
~Elisheba~
p.s. I promise I'll learn how to use the 'quote' functions. ![[type]](graemlins/type.gif)
Posted by SoftTouch (Member # 2316) on
:
quote:
Originally posted by Elisheba:
p.s. I promise I'll learn how to use the 'quote' functions.
LOL Don't worry about that, it just takes time ![[Wink]](wink.gif)
Just like learning God's Word!
I hope you won't let this turn you away from Jesus! He DOES Love you and All People. It's just that HIS Word (The Bible) has very Specific instructions on how we're supposed to handle the majority of issues in life (especially when it comes to His (God's) teaching and sticking to what's in the Bible). The whole reason people have to speak out against certain teachers is because they leave what's in the Bible and start teaching things that God never taught us (or what the Bible calls "Doctrines of Devils"). All he instructed us is in The Bible and we're told not to add to it or take away from it.
I hope you'll read the article on a "What The Bible Says About A Godly Attitude Toward Heresy."
The real danger of False Teachers is to the New Christian who doesn't know what the Bible says. How are you supposed to know what is and isn't in there if you haven't had the time to read or study it? A New Christian needs to rely on Teachers until they become familiar with God's Word and how to check things out for themselves. This leaves the New Christian very vunarable to False Teaching/Teachers and it's up to those Christians who have been at this a while to help with issues of Discernment. The Bible WARNS the Believer that False Christs, False Prophets, and False Teachers WILL be among us (even in our Churches) and that they would increase and their teachings would become more Anti-Christ as we near the End of The Age (and Jesus' Second Coming). (Matt 24)
Whenever I post things about teachers, I always try to make sure there is a 'source' quoted so the reader can check the info out for themselves. I also 'try' to show how what's being taught is Unscriptural (although I'm not always ablt too but there are many here who are Much Better at this!). I do rely on "Discernment Ministries" to see what False Teachings are out there, but I make sure that what they claim is backed up by Scripture and other sources. (This is actually helping me to learn How to Search things out!).
At any rate, we as Disciples of Jesus Christ are Not to Bear False Witness (lie about) against anyone. I would NOT post such things if I were not 100% what was being said was true.
I hope you'll check every thing out yourself. It's gonna take Time. Daily Study and Prayer, but I think Our Lord and Savior is Definitely Worth It!
Posted by Elisheba (Member # 4801) on
:
Thank you, SoftTouch.
I know I'll learn - as you said, it takes time.
I mentioned posting my testimony and I will get to it; it's a difficult one to share without everyone thinking I'm a nut.
I was a practicing witch for several years. I am almost 50 now, and was baptised in a cold Kentucky creek when I was 13 by a Methodist minister.
So many things didn't make sense to me, and I gradually developed a 'build your own' religion that is of the occult.
I suppose basically I'm a prodigal. I'm doing lots of reading and Beth Moore studies. I've found a church I love very much with a supportive church family.
When I see remarks that look harsh and judgmental, I suppose it brings back the feelings of irritation from years ago.
For me, it's a fine line to walk - sharing my experience and relationship with Jesus and not sounding like I'm condemning others if they don't share the beliefs.
I only shredded my ACLU card after I investigated the "NAMBLA" (Man/Boy Love Act). I know I've got a loooooonnnng way to go.... but I'll get there.
![[wiggle7]](graemlins/wiggle7.gif)
Posted by SoftTouch (Member # 2316) on
:
quote:
Originally posted by Elisheba:
I know I've got a loooooonnnng way to go.... but I'll get there.
LOL I know what you mean! I feel the same way! No matter how much I 'think' I may know, it seems like I've still got So Much more to learn and Grow! I guess it will always be like this as long as we're still in the Flesh
This place has been a tremendous help to me Especially Helpforhomeschoolers and Caretaker. There are many others here as well who are solidly grounded in God's Word, but I consider these two Brethern to be like Elders for me. When I can't figure something out, I usually go running to one of them LOL I've known them both about two years now and have never known either to post anything that was contrary to God's Word.
I can't wait to read your testimony once you get it done! PRAISE GOD!!!! The Lord pulled out of the New Age lies. I was headed down a very deadly road myself.
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