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Posted by Sha'ul (Member # 8294) on :
 
What day is the real Sabbath and why?
 

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Posted by Carol Swenson (Member # 6929) on :
 
Jesus Christ is our Sabbath.

The writer of Hebrews mentions three different "rests":

(1) God’s Sabbath rest, when He ceased from His Creation activities (Gen. 2:2; Heb. 4:4); (2) Israel’s rest in Canaan (Deut. 12:9; Josh. 21:43-45; Heb. 3:11). But he saw in these “rests” illustrations of the spiritual experiences of believers today. The Sabbath rest is a picture of our rest in Christ through salvation (Heb. 4:3; see Matt. 11:28). The Canaan rest is a picture of our present rest as we claim our inheritance in Christ (Heb. 4:11-13; note the emphasis on the Word of God). The first is the rest of salvation; the second is the rest of submission.

But there is a third rest that enters into the discussion, that future rest that all believers will enjoy with God. “There remaineth, therefore, a rest to the people of God” (Heb. 4:9). This word for rest is the Greek word sabbatismos—“a keeping of a Sabbath”—and this is the only place in the New Testament where this word is used. When the saints enter heaven, it will be like sharing God’s great Sabbath rest, with all labors and battles ended (Rev. 14:13).

(Wiersbe)
 

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Posted by Betty Louise (Member # 7175) on :
 
Right on! Carol
 

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Posted by Carol Swenson (Member # 6929) on :
 
Thanks Betty!

This is from the International Standard Bible Encyclopedia


Paul and the Sabbath:

The early Christians kept the 7th day as a Sabbath, much after the fashion of other Jews. Gradually the 1st day of the week came to be recognized as the day on which the followers of Jesus would meet for worship. The resurrection of our Lord on that day made it for Christians the most joyous day of all the week. When Gentiles were admitted into the church, the question at once arose whether they should be required to keep the Law of Moses. It is the glory of Paul that he fought for and won freedom for his Gentile fellow-Christians. It is significant of the attitude of the apostles that the decrees of the Council at Jerusalem made no mention of Sabbath observance in the requirements laid upon Gentile Christians (Acts 15:28 f). Paul boldly contended that believers in Jesus, whether Jew or Gentile, were set free from the burdens of the Mosaic Law. Even circumcision counted for nothing, now that men were saved by believing in Jesus (Gal 5:6). Christian liberty as proclaimed by Paul included all days and seasons. A man could observe special days or not, just as his own judgment and conscience might dictate (Rom 14:5 f); but in all such matters one ought to be careful not to put a stumblingblock in a brother’s way (Rom 14:13 ff). That Paul contended for personal freedom in respect of the Sabbath is made quite clear in Col 2:16 f, where he groups together dietary laws, feast days, new moons and sabbaths. The early Christians brought over into their mode of observing the Lord’s Day the best elements of the Jewish Sabbath, without its onerous restrictions.)

Sunday, however, was sharply distinguished from the Sabbath. One was the day on which worship was offered in a specifically Christian form, the other was a day of ritual rest to be observed by all who were subject to the Law of Moses through circumcision (Gal 5:3; compare Acts 21:20). Uncircumcised Gentiles, however, were free from any obligation of Sabbath observance, and it is quite certain that in apostolic times no renewal of any Sabbath rules or transfer of them to Sunday was made for Gentile converts. No observance of a particular “day of rest” is contained among the “necessary things” of Acts 15:28, 29, nor is any such precept found among all the varied moral directions given in the whole epistolary literature. Quite on the contrary, the observance of a given day as a matter of Divine obligation is denounced by Paul as a forsaking of Christ (Gal 4:10), and Sabbath-keeping is condemned explicitly in Col 2:16. As a matter of individual devotion, to be sure, a man might do as he pleased (Rom 14:5, 6), but no general rule as necessary for salvation could be compatible with the liberty wherewith Christ has made us free. Evidently, then, the fact that the Christian worship was held on Sunday did not sanctify Sunday any more than (say) a regular Wednesday service among us sanctifies Wednesday, noting especially that the apostolic service was held in the evening. For it was felt that Christian enthusiasm would raise every day to the highest religious plane, the decay of that enthusiasm through the long delay of the Parousia not being contemplated.
 

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Posted by barrykind (Member # 35) on :
 
Wow ya'll sure have some great topics

Sister Carol Quoted The International Standard Bible Encyclopedia:

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[B][This is from the International Standard Bible Encyclopedia


Paul and the Sabbath:

The early Christians kept the 7th day as a Sabbath, much after the fashion of other Jews. Gradually the 1st day of the week came to be recognized as the day on which the followers of Jesus would meet for worship. The resurrection of our Lord on that day made it for Christians the most joyous day of all the week. When Gentiles were admitted into the church, the question at once arose whether they should be required to keep the Law of Moses. It is the glory of Paul that he fought for and won freedom for his Gentile fellow-Christians. It is significant of the attitude of the apostles that the decrees of the Council at Jerusalem made no mention of Sabbath observance in the requirements laid upon Gentile Christians (Acts 15:28 f). Paul boldly contended that believers in Jesus, whether Jew or Gentile, were set free from the burdens of the Mosaic Law/B]

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I can not speak for the rest of you, but the God I serve does not change...He is the same yesterday, today, forever ....

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Originally posted by Carol Swenson:
We are not obligated to follow the Mosaic Sabbath—resting, but are now free to follow the risen Christ—serving.
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The Sabbath was given to Israel, not the church.

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The Church is the Israel of Yahweh!

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Originally posted by becauseHElives:
if you do not add true repentance to the cross you have nothing.....

if you do not add take up your cross and follow Yahshua you have nothing....

obedience to Yahshua's commands are not legal requirements but evidence of a changed heart, a New Birth...

The olive tree (Romans 11:16-24)

If you have not been grafted in you are no part of Yahweh!

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Originally posted by Betty Louise:
I have been mislead in the past by SDA. I will NOT BE again.
betty

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I challenge anyone to show me one line of scripture that states that the keeping of the literal Sabbath is no longer a commandment of Yahweh. To say so is to say that the Ten Commandments is no longer for today.

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I have been mislead in the past by SDA. I will NOT BE again.
betty

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I stay clear of those that try to confuse the simplicity that is in Christ with many words of their opinion butchered from the Word not rightfully divided..

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This has absolutely NOTHING whatsoever to do with 7th Day Adventist. This was settled some 1500 or so years before anyone ever heard of SDA.

When some one shows scores and scores of scriptures that all blend together and prove a point of Doctrine by using the timeless method of the scripture interpreting scripture. Please dont let some SDA close your mind to the truth.

That is one of the MOST TRAGIC mistake any of us can make dear Brothers and Sisters, if something is TRUTH; i dont care who believes in it, im prayerfully not going to reject it becausde the "Roman Catholic Church" or Herbert Armstrong, Branch Davidians believe it...

My goodness folks if we use that as our criteria we would certainly be in a mess.

Just saying;

Judge the facts, and study the scriptures and see, let us be as the Bereans and study the matter.



bondservan
barry
 

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Posted by Betty Louise (Member # 7175) on :
 
I worship God everyday and I attend Church on Wednesday night and Sunday. I make no apology for doing so.
betty
 

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Posted by barrykind (Member # 35) on :
 
Sister Betty stated:

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I worship God everyday and I attend Church on Wednesday night and Sunday. I make no apology for doing so.

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Sabbath, saturday or sunday?

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Originally posted by Caretaker:
God bless you Barry;

The Torah is not just the Mosaic Laws from Mount Sinai, but is in fact the first Five Books of Moses.

Jesus fulfilled every aspect of the Law of Moses, and nailed those ordinances to His Cross of Calvary.

The breaking of bread is the remembrance which Christ instituted, "This is my Body".


Acts 20:7 7: And upon the first day of the week, when the disciples came together to break bread, Paul preached unto them, ready to depart on the morrow; and continued his speech until midnight.


1 John 3:4
23: And this is his commandment, That we should believe on the name of his Son Jesus Christ, and love one another, as he gave us commandment.

Col. 2:
14: Blotting out the handwriting of ordinances that was against us, which was contrary to us, and took it out of the way, nailing it to his cross;
15: And having spoiled principalities and powers, he made a shew of them openly, triumphing over them in it.
16: Let no man therefore judge you in meat, or in drink, or in respect of an holyday, or of the new moon, or of the sabbath days:
17: Which are a shadow of things to come; but the body is of Christ.

Acts 17:

1: Now when they had passed through Amphipolis and Apollonia, they came to Thessalonica, where was a synagogue of the Jews:
2: And Paul, as his manner was, went in unto them, and three sabbath days reasoned with them out of the scriptures,
3: Opening and alleging, that Christ must needs have suffered, and risen again from the dead; and that this Jesus, whom I preach unto you, is Christ.
4: And some of them believed, and consorted with Paul and Silas; and of the devout Greeks a great multitude, and of the chief women not a few.

The manner of Paul was to go unto them when they gathered and reason with them out of the scriptures. The Jews and devout Greeks gathered on the Sabbath and that was when they were available with the scriptures.

Acts 13:
1: Now there were in the church that was at Antioch certain prophets and teachers; as Barnabas, and Simeon that was called Niger, and Lucius of Cyrene, and Manaen, which had been brought up with Herod the tetrarch, and Saul.
2: As they ministered to the Lord, and fasted, the Holy Ghost said, Separate me Barnabas and Saul for the work whereunto I have called them.
3: And when they had fasted and prayed, and laid their hands on them, they sent them away.
4: So they, being sent forth by the Holy Ghost, departed unto Seleucia; and from thence they sailed to Cyprus.
5: And when they were at Salamis, they preached the word of God in the synagogues of the Jews: and they had also John to their minister.

14: But when they departed from Perga, they came to Antioch in Pisidia, and went into the synagogue on the sabbath day, and sat down.
15: And after the reading of the law and the prophets the rulers of the synagogue sent unto them, saying, Ye men and brethren, if ye have any word of exhortation for the people, say on.
16: Then Paul stood up, and beckoning with his hand said, Men of Israel, and ye that fear God, give audience.

42: And when the Jews were gone out of the synagogue, the Gentiles besought that these words might be preached to them the next sabbath.
43: Now when the congregation was broken up, many of the Jews and religious proselytes followed Paul and Barnabas: who, speaking to them, persuaded them to continue in the grace of God.
44: And the next sabbath day came almost the whole city together to hear the word of God.
45: But when the Jews saw the multitudes, they were filled with envy, and spake against those things which were spoken by Paul, contradicting and blaspheming.
46: Then Paul and Barnabas waxed bold, and said, It was necessary that the word of God should first have been spoken to you: but seeing ye put it from you, and judge yourselves unworthy of everlasting life, lo, we turn to the Gentiles.
47: For so hath the Lord commanded us, saying, I have set thee to be a light of the Gentiles, that thou shouldest be for salvation unto the ends of the earth.
48: And when the Gentiles heard this, they were glad, and glorified the word of the Lord: and as many as were ordained to eternal life believed.
49: And the word of the Lord was published throughout all the region.

To the Jew first in the synagogues, and then to the Gentiles. When did the Jews gather and hear the Word?


1. Creation was completed in six days.
2. God rested on the seventh day.
3. God blessed the seventh day.
4. God sanctified the seventh day.
5. The reason God sanctified the seventh day was because He rested on it.
6. The seventh-day account does not have the formula "and there was evening and there was morning, a seventh day" as do the six days of creation.
7. There is no mention of the word "Sabbath" in the book of Genesis.
8. There is no command for mankind to rest in the Genesis account.
9. Nothing is expressly mentioned regarding man in the seventh-day-creation rest.
10. The seventh-day "rest" of God was most likely characterized by His delight in His new creations and in open fellowship with Adam and Eve in the sin-free, perfect environment of Eden.
11. The conditions which characterized the "rest" of God would probably have continued had it not been for man's sin.
12. The seventh day of Gen 2:2,3 may have been a regular day as were the first six days of creation, or it may have been an indefinite period of time.
13. The Genesis account does not mention an end to God's seventh-day rest. It is presented as an ongoing state by the omission of "and there was evening and there was morning, a seventh day". The fact that the Genesis account is so carefully constructed indicates that this omission was not accidental.
14. When man sinned, he was excluded from God's REST and God began His WORK of redemption to restore man back to himself.

What is this new "WORK" which God started immediately after Adam and Eve sinned? We read that "The Lord God MADE garments of skin for Adam and his wife, and clothed them" (Gen 3:21). This event was the beginning of a "WORK" which would continue throughout the centuries until it's significance would become fully revealed in the death of Christ. The death of that first lamb, while not mentioned as such in the Genesis account, was the acorn of the great truth which, through the following centuries, would grow into the great, spreading oak of righteousness by faith. It pointed forward to Christ's substitutionary life and death for lost mankind. Naked Adam and Eve were clothed with robes made from the skin of the lamb - a substitute who gave his life.

Millennia later Paul would put this same truth in these words:
He made Him who knew no sin to be sin on our behalf, that we might become the righteousness of God in Him. 2 Corinthians 5:21
All of you who were baptized into Christ have clothed yourselves with Christ. Galatians 3:27
The work of redemption was the work which God started when man sinned and was driven from Eden's rest. This work would continue until man was restored to God's true rest. Jesus is our Sabbath rest, not some 24-hour period of time

Romans 14
1
Him that is weak in the faith receive ye, but not to doubtful disputations.
2
For one believeth that he may eat all things: another, who is weak, eateth herbs.
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Let not him that eateth despise him that eateth not; and let not him which eateth not judge him that eateth: for God hath received him.
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Who art thou that judgest another man's servant? to his own master he standeth or falleth. Yea, he shall be holden up: for God is able to make him stand.
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One man esteemeth one day above another: another esteemeth every day alike. Let every man be fully persuaded in his own mind.
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He that regardeth the day, regardeth it unto the Lord; and he that regardeth not the day, to the Lord he doth not regard it. He that eateth, eateth to the Lord, for he giveth God thanks; and he that eateth not, to the Lord he eateth not, and giveth God thanks.
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For none of us liveth to himself, and no man dieth to himself.
8
For whether we live, we live unto the Lord; and whether we die, we die unto the Lord: whether we live therefore, or die, we are the Lord's.


Galations 3:

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But before faith came, we were kept under the law, shut up unto the faith which should afterwards be revealed.
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Wherefore the law was our schoolmaster to bring us unto Christ, that we might be justified by faith.
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But after that faith is come, we are no longer under a schoolmaster.
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For ye are all the children of God by faith in Christ Jesus.
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For as many of you as have been baptized into Christ have put on Christ.
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There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither bond nor free, there is neither male nor female: for ye are all one in Christ Jesus.
29
And if ye be Christ's, then are ye Abraham's seed, and heirs according to the promise.


No where in the Word is Noah commanded to keep the Sabbath.

No where in the Word is Abraham commanded to keep the Sabbath.

Neither are Issac, or Jacob, or Joseph.

We are not under the Law of Moses given on Sinai, but under the Grace of Christ.

24
Wherefore the law was our schoolmaster to bring us unto Christ, that we might be justified by faith.
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But after that faith is come, we are no longer under a schoolmaster.
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For ye are all the children of God by faith in Christ Jesus.

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Its so refreshing to read a post that has been rightly divided from the Word.
 

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Posted by Carol Swenson (Member # 6929) on :
 
Caretaker
 

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Posted by becauseHElives (Member # 87) on :
 
Carol ask

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Without repentance and faith, there is no new birth. So are you saying that a person has to keep the Sabbath before he can be reborn, or are you saying a person has to keep the Sabbath after he is reborn?

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Yahshua? You mean "Jesus"!

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Originally posted by Sha'ul:
wildB, Jesus was never His name until the english language came about. Even in the greek it first was Iesous, then when the first KJV was printed 1611 it was printed as Iesus, then when the letter J was born it became Jesus in the english. Nothing wrong with Jesus, I was saved under that name, but His real name is Yahshua, Yeshua(however you want to spell it.) Sha'ul

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Originally posted by barrykind:

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wildB, Jesus was never His name until the english language came about. Even in the greek it first was Iesous, then when the first KJV was printed 1611 it was printed as Iesus, then when the letter J was born it became Jesus in the english.

This is very true..if wildb was really interested he could see the thread about HIS name

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wildB, Jesus was never His name until the english language came about. Even in the greek it first was Iesous, then when the first KJV was printed 1611 it was printed as Iesus, then when the letter J was born it became Jesus in the english.

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Originally posted by barrykind:
actually this part of the post was from shaul

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wildB, Jesus was never His name until the english language came about. Even in the greek it first was Iesous, then when the first KJV was printed 1611 it was printed as Iesus, then when the letter J was born it became Jesus in the english.

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but i totally concur:

the latter was mine:


But truthfully i dont think you read much of what people post, and to comment on something that is so crucial to many folks without hearing the whole of the matter is unwise sir:

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Reading what some people post is unwise sir. Especially if it is not forwarding the edification of God's Grace. So how many angels do you think can fit on the head of a needle?

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Originally posted by barrykind:
wildb states:

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Reading what some people post is unwise sir. Especially if it is not forwarding the edification of God's Grace. So how many angels do you think can fit on the head of a needle?

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Sir that is a foolish and unlearned question:

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Hebrews 12:15 Looking diligently lest any man fail of the grace of God; lest any root of bitterness springing up trouble you, and thereby many be defiled;

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"The records that remain in the New Testament show that the first day of the week soon became a day of worship. When Paul wanted to collect an offering from the church at Corinth, he asked them to gather the money on the "first day of the week" (1 Cor. 16:2). And when he wanted to meet with the believers at Troas, the gathering took place "on the first day of the week, when we were gathered together to break bread" (Acts 20:7).

In Revelation 1:10, the apostle John described himself as being "in the Spirit on the Lord's Day." Most writers have thought he was referring to Sunday, so that our use of "the Lord's Day" as a term for Sunday comes from this verse."

The Catholics must have gone back in time to the Apostle's days.
betty

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Originally posted by Caretaker:
http://www.globalchristians.org/ebooks/The%20Sabbath.htm

Sabbath-keeping is an Old Testament practice that has whole denominations (Seventh-Day Adventists, Seventh Day Baptists etc) lined up behind it. Its perhaps one of the most pervasive of the OT practices that born-again Christians feel compelled to follow. However it is something that Jesus spoke quite strongly about and which was never placed on believers in the NT.

There are four main (and somewhat separate) errors concerning the Sabbath, in order of gravity they are:

1. That you must observe the Sabbath to be saved.

2. That observance of the Sabbath is compulsory (but perhaps not essential for salvation).

3. That the Jewish Saturday Sabbath is still the Sabbath for Christians.

4. That the Sabbath is now on Sunday and Christians must observe Sunday as a day of rest.


Proponents of the Sabbath (Sabbatarians) argue that:

1. Sabbath was ordained at Creation (Genesis 2:2)
2. The Sabbath was part of the Ten Commandments (Exodus 20:8-11)
3. Observing the Sabbath in a consecrated way brings blessing. (Isaiah 58:13,14)
4. Not one jot or tittle will pass away from the Law until all is fulfilled. (Matthew 5:17)
5. There remains a Sabbath rest for the people of God. (Hebrews 4:9)
6. John the apostle was "in the Spirit on the Lord’s day" (Revelation 1:10)

At first glance this seems quite convincing so lets look at those arguments a bit more deeply. Arguments B,C and D depend on the Law still being in force in some way and their being blessing for obedience and cursing for disobedience. I hope that by now you will be able to see that is no longer the case. The Law has been fulfilled in the life and death and resurrection of Jesus Christ.

Argument A rests on God hallowing that day at Creation. While God did make the Sabbath holy He did not make it compulsory. Besides we have no idea on what day that was, if we are to believe Archbishop Usher (the biblical chronologist who said that Creation was on a Wednesday at 9:00am in the morning in 4004BC) it was a Wednesday!

Hebrews 4:9 "there remains therefore a Sabbath rest for the people of God" is in the midst of a section that shows that the true Sabbath is not the Sabbath instituted under Joshua that the Jews observed but rather was the Sabbath rest from dead works that we find in Christ and which reaches its fulfillment when we find our rest in Heaven.

(Hebrews 4:8-11 NASB) For if Joshua had given them rest, He would not have spoken of another day after that. {9} There remains therefore a Sabbath rest for the people of God. {10} For the one who has entered His rest has himself also rested from his works, as God did from His. {11} Let us therefore be diligent to enter that rest, lest anyone fall through following the same example of disobedience.

The last reference to being "in the Spirit on the Lord's Day" is very enigmatic. It may have referred to Sunday by then. It certainly does not suggest it was compulsory. Believers seemed to meet "on the first day of the week" and that may have been all there was to it. (1 Corinthians 16:2, Acts 20:7) There is no direct NT pronouncement saying "Sunday is now the Sabbath and you must keep it holy.". Most Christians were slaves and had no power to take a day off anyway!

Direct Teaching On The Sabbath.

Jesus And The Sabbath

Part of the reason for the intense hostility towards Jesus was His attitude towards the Sabbath. The Sabbath had become one of the chief spiritual control tools of the Pharisees. Hundreds of rabbinical regulations added to the Law made the Sabbath a very complex and burdensome issue for the average Jew. It had turned from being a joyous day of rest and celebration into yet another device for proving how spiritual one was.

Jesus was not tactful. In fact he just charged through the mass of rabbinical red tape like a cavalier with a sword. Culturally He would have come across as very undiplomatic, a sort of spiritual "bull in a china shop". We will see why in the next few verses where Jesus moves to combat the narrow cruel Sabbatarian legalism of the Pharisees. In an astonishing display of heartlessness they would not let the hungry disciples pick a few heads of grain to eat or approve a man being healed on the Sabbath. Their vicious cruelty reached its natural conclusion as they plot to destroy Jesus. The questions of the Sabbatarians are in blue and the main points Jesus makes are in red..

(Matthew 12:1-14 NASB) At that time Jesus went on the Sabbath through the grainfields, and His disciples became hungry and began to pick the heads of grain and eat. {2} But when the Pharisees saw it, they said to Him,"Behold, Your disciples do what is not lawful to do on a Sabbath."

{3} But He said to them, "Have you not read what David did, when he became hungry, he and his companions; {4} how he entered the house of God, and they ate the consecrated bread, which was not lawful for him to eat, nor for those with him, but for the priests alone? {5} "Or have you not read in the Law, thaton the Sabbath the priests in the temple break the Sabbath, and are innocent? {6} "But I say to you, thatsomething greater than the temple is here.

{7} "But if you had known what this means,'I DESIRE COMPASSION, AND NOT A SACRIFICE,'you would not havecondemned the innocent. {8} "For the Son of Man is Lord of the Sabbath."

{9} And departing from there, He went into their synagogue. {10} And behold, there was a man with a withered hand. And they questioned Him, saying,"Is it lawful to heal on the Sabbath?"-- in order that they might accuse Him. {11} And He said to them,"What man shall there be among you, who shall have one sheep, and if it falls into a pit on the Sabbath, will he not take hold of it, and lift it out?{12} "Of how much more value then is a man than a sheep! So then,it is lawful to do good on the Sabbath." {13} Then He said to the man, "Stretch out your hand!" And he stretched it out, and it was restored to normal, like the other. {14} But the Pharisees went out, and counseled together against Him, as to how they might destroy Him.

(Mark 2:27-28 NASB) And He was saying to them,"The Sabbath was made for man, and not man for the Sabbath. {28} "Consequently, the Son of Man is Lord even of the Sabbath."

Jesus points are:

1. Human needs over-ride religious protocol. (David and the bread)
2. That the priests in the Temple break the Sabbath with impunity.
3. That He was greater than the Temple or its priests and therefore can break the Sabbath.
4. That God desires mercy (in this case for hungry disciples) not sacrifice. Kindness has a higher priority than sacrifices, religion and Sabbath-keeping.
5. That Sabbatarian legalism just ends up condemning the innocent.
6. That the Son of Man is Lord even of the Sabbath.
7. That natural common sense, even for animals would tell people to show compassion on the Sabbath.
8. That it is permissible to do good on the Sabbath.
9. The Sabbath was made for man, not man for the Sabbath. It is there to serve our need for rest and relaxation not to be an onerous religious burden.

Jesus was not abolishing the Sabbath (that would happen on the cross) rather He was fulfilling its purpose as a day for freeing people, healing them and restoring them and as a day for showing kindness and compassion. The Sabbath was not just a day for being religious. It was a day for being loving. It w as not just a day for going to church. It was a day for feeding the hungry and healing the sick. God's Sabbath was not just a day for demonstrating your holiness and your zeal but for showing your concern for your neighbour and even your animals. It was who you were on the Sabbath not what you did on the Sabbath that was Jesus' chief concern. If you were as hard-hearted, cruel and vindictive as these Pharisees who ended up plotting murder on the Sabbath - then no matter what you "do" in terms of religious acts you are NOT keeping the Sabbath as God intended. (see Isaiah 58 which applies the same principles to fasting).

Don't Be Judgmental About The Sabbath

Paul lists Sabbath-keeping among the disputable things in Romans 14. Thus Sabbath-keeping was not an issue of first importance and certainly not essential for salvation. Good Christians could be on both sides of the issue. Many people who believe in keeping one day aside for God do so out of very real reverence for Him and not out of legalism or bondage to elemental spirits. They do so "unto the Lord" and they are not to be judged by those who see "all days alike" - and of course vice-versa. It is not an issue we are to judge one another on.

(Romans 14:1-6 NASB) Now accept the one who is weak in faith, but not for the purpose of passing judgment on his opinions. {2} …{5} One man regards one day above another, another regards every day alike. Let each man be fully convinced in his own mind. {6} He who observes the day, observes it for the Lord, and he who eats, does so for the Lord, for he gives thanks to God; and he who eats not, for the Lord he does not eat, and gives thanks to God.

We are not to let people "act as our judge" on the issue. However if we do keep a Sabbath it should be as Jesus wanted it kept - as a day of compassion not of legalism. Personally I keep Sunday as a day of rest and of visiting friends and I try to make it a "computer free day" so I live in the real world in real relationships - not virtual ones. I see Sunday as a "day of personal restoration and reflection" and do not feel under any obligation to go to two services but I will normally go to one. I make sure there is plenty of space on Sunday for "being human". I run around a lot during the week and its great to crash out and snooze on Sunday afternoon. Sunday should be a day you look forward to with joy in anticipation of refreshment - not a day of even more busyness. I think that is catching the true Creation intent of a Sabbath.

Sabbaths Are Shadows

(Colossians 2:16-17 NASB) Therefore let no one act as your judge in regard to food or drink or in respect to a festival or a new moon or a Sabbath day-- {17} things which are amere shadowof what is to come; butthe substance belongs to Christ

(Galatians 4:9-11 NASB) But now that you have come to know God, or rather to be known by God, how is it that you turn back again to theweak and worthless elemental things, to which you desire to be enslaved all over again? {10} You observe days and months and seasons and years. {11} I fear for you, that perhaps I have labored over you in vain.

The Sabbath is a mere shadow. The substance - the real rest we have, is in Christ. Its simply not worth making a big deal over a shadow! Paul goes on to call these things "weak and worthless elemental things". In other words the Sabbath is a shadowy, weak, worthless, elemental thing. It is therefore NOT to be the major issue for believers that it often is. It is certainly not something we should feel enslaved to. (Gal 4:9) It is the "things to come" and the "substance" that is important - not Sabbaths, new moons, festivals etc. Christ is far above all this and it is Him we should seek.

Therefore answering the four main errors listed at the top of this chapter.

1. There are no binding Sabbaths on Christians therefore you do not have to obey the Sabbath to be saved.
2. There are no binding Sabbaths on Christians therefore the Sabbath is not compulsory.
3. The Jewish Sabbath is still Saturday but the Christian Sabbath is in Christ - not on Saturday or Sunday.
4. Sunday is the traditional day of worship for Christians but it is not a binding Sabbath that we must observe on that particular day. Days are shadows - the substance is Christ.

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Barry how is it you not being a Jew, would compel others to be Jews?

And how is it you being a professing Christian would continue to make shipwreck the faith of others ?

I count you not as an enemy, but admonish you as a brother to stop forwarding cult doctrine.

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Originally posted by yahsway:
I pray everyone here take a look at Wildb's post and go google all those men he has on here and read about them. Some of our earliest church Fathers. Hmmm Very interesting indeed!

I knew some of it, but now I know why i do not follow the edicts of the Catholic church. my oh my.

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Originally posted by yahsway:


Again, like i have been saying, everyday is good to worship God, but it does not change the Fact that God Himself instituted a Day called the Sabbath or in the scripture called the 7th day and He said it would be forever. What part of Forever is hard to understand?

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Originally posted by Eduardo Grequi:


I believe with perfect faith that the Creator, Blessed be His Name, rewards those who keep His commandments and punishes those that transgress

-Maimonides

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Originally posted by barrykind:
Good post yahsway:

Brother wildb needs to study more on History and the Bible:


barry

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Originally posted by barrykind:
Good post yahsway:

Brother wildb needs to study more on History and the Bible:


barry

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Originally posted by barrykind:
COLOSSIANS 2: Handwriting of ordinances

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Colo 2:8 (KJV) Beware lest any man spoil you through philosophy and vain deceit, after the tradition of men, after the rudiments of the world, and not after Messiah.

This is what the remaining section of Colossians chapter 2 is all about. This theme remains constant throughout but men have tried to change it to Yahweh's commandments rather than the commandments and traditions of men.

9 For in him dwelleth all the fulness of our Mighty One (Godhead) bodily. 10 And ye are complete in him, which is the head of all principality and power:

So we need none other doctrines because we are complete in Yahushua who is the head of all. We are complete in Him. We don't need anything that men might invent.

11 In whom also ye are circumcised with the circumcision made without hands, in putting off the body of the sins of the flesh by the circumcision of Messiah

In Yahushua, we are circumcised in the heart by His blood covering our sins thereby separating us from our sins.

12 Buried with him in baptism, wherein also ye are risen with [him] through the faith of the operation of Yahweh, who hath raised him from the dead.

We buried the old man and we are now a new creation so we shouldn't be going back to any old traditions and philosophies

13 And you, being dead in your sins and the uncircumcision of your flesh, hath he quickened together with him, having forgiven you all trespasses;
14 Blotting out the handwriting of ordinances that was against us, which was contrary to us, and took it out of the way, nailing it to his tree (cross);

When we are forgiven of our sins, those old traditions, doctrines and ordinances of men which are AGAINST us are taken out of the way. They have no power over us any longer if we are in Yahushua. Do these ordinances have power over men who are without Yahushua? Yes they do! They enslave men to sin!

Roma 6:16 (NKJV) Do you not know that to whom you present yourselves slaves to obey, you are that one's slaves whom you obey, whether of sin [leading] to death, or of obedience [leading] to righteousness? 17 But Yahweh be thanked that [though] you were slaves of sin, yet you obeyed from the heart that form of doctrine to which you were delivered. 18 And having been set free from sin, you became slaves of righteousness.

Colo 1:13 (NKJV) He has delivered us from the power of darkness and conveyed [us] into the kingdom of the Son of His love,

Therefore, the power that these ordinances had over us was nailed to the tree along with our sins for when we are forgiven for our sins, we are also set free from their hold on us. Anyone who has repented and accepted Yahushua after a lifetime of sin can attest to this fact!!
But now the question is asked: "What ordinances of men?" Paul will expand on this in verses 18 and 21 but for now lets go to the next verse..

15 [And] having spoiled principalities and powers, he made a shew of them openly, triumphing over them in it.

He overcame and disarmed the spirits of darkness, the evil angels. He triumphed over Satan and all his powers. He Put them to an open shame by triumphing over them in his resurrection and ascension. Now if verse 14 was speaking of Yahweh's commandments then why in the next verse is it talking about disarming Satan? Yahweh is the author of the true commandments. Satan is the author of the Pagan commandments that Paul is speaking of here.

16 Let no man therefore judge you in meat, or in drink, or in respect of an holyday, or of the new moon, or of the sabbath [days]:
17 Which are a shadow of things to come; but the body [is] of Messiah

Notice that these things ARE a shadow of things to come. Not WERE a shadow but ARE a shadow. We will be keeping these things in Yahweh's kingdom. (See Zech. 14, Isa 66) In this scripture, the words in parentheses are added by the translator. This is because the translator did not understand or had a biased opinion about what the greek text meant. Here is how this should read:

16 Let no man therefore judge you in meat, or in drink, or in respect of an holyday, or of the new moon, or of the sabbath
17 which are a shadow of things to come; but the body of Messiah

Of all the modern translations, only a few such as the King James Version translate the word "Body" in verse 17 correctly. The NIV totally butchers this verse.

The word "body" in verse 17 does mean "body". It is Strong's #4983. Look it up and see for yourself.

In the KJV, this Greek word is translated:

"body" 144 times
"bodily" 1 time in 2cor. 10:10
"slave" one time in Rev. 18:3.
In fact, this same Greek word is translated "body" only two verses later! Now, keeping that in mind this verse should read :
Let no man therefore judge you in meat, drink, etc (which are a shadow of things to come) BUT THE BODY OF MESSIAH!

In other words, we should let only the body of the Messiah judge us! Can we as brethren in Messiah judge each other? Certainly!

1Cor 5:11 (NKJV) But now I have written to you not to keep company with anyone named a brother, who is sexually immoral, or covetous, or an idolater, or a reviler, or a drunkard, or an extortioner--not even to eat with such a person. 12 For what [have] I [to] [do] with judging those also who are outside? Do you not judge those who are inside? 13 But those who are outside Yahweh judges. Therefore "put away from yourselves the evil person."

Does a man not pass a judgment on his brother when he sees his brother in sin? Of course! But when this is the case, we must restore this man in gentleness:
Gala 6:1 (NKJV) Brethren, if a man is overtaken in any trespass, you who [are] spiritual restore such a one in a spirit of gentleness, considering yourself lest you also be tempted.

Jame 5:19 (NKJV) Brethren, if anyone among you wanders from the truth, and someone turns him back, 20 let him know that he who turns a sinner from the error of his way will save a soul from death and cover a multitude of sins

Don't let these pagans judge us in these things. This indicates that the Gentiles in Colosse were keeping Yahweh's commandments as they should. Please consult any greek new testament to verify that what I am saying is true! "Body of Messiah"

18 Let no man beguile you of your reward in a voluntary humility and worshipping of angels, intruding into those things which he hath not seen, vainly puffed up by his fleshly mind,
19 And not holding the Head, from which all the body <#4983>by joints and bands having nourishment ministered, and knit together, increaseth with the increase of Yahweh.

Verse 18 is a mirror of verse 8. This scripture further proves that Paul is not talking about taking away Yahweh's commandments in verse 16 but rather the commandments of men such as worshipping of angels...and here we are talking about the BODY of Messiah again! This is consistent with what we talked about above in verse 17 and why it should be translated "body". A variation of this word ("soma") is "somatikos" (which is Strong's #4985). This word is also translated "bodily" in verse 9 above. Therefore, verses 18 and 19 are a mirror of verses 8 and 9 above. This shows us that the context of what Paul was saying in verse 8 and 9 has not changed. Therefore, these verses are good summary: Stand fast in Yahweh's commandments and shun the commandments and doctrines of men.

20 Wherefore if ye be dead with Messiah from the rudiments of the world, why, as though living in the world, are ye subject to ordinances--

Remember back in verse 14 when we asked, "What ordinances of men?" These are among the ordinances that were blotted out:

21 (Touch not; taste not; handle not;
22 Which all are to perish with the using;) after the commandments and doctrines of men?

Again, these are the ordinances of men that were blotted out. Taken out of the way. They are all commandments and doctrines of men. Not Yahweh's commandments. To further prove this point, let us look at the Greek words that are translated "ordinances"

In verse 14 the Greek word that is translated "ordinances" is the Greek word "Dogma" which means "ordinances"

In verse 21 the Greek word that is translated "be subject to ordinances" is "Dogmatizo" which means "be subject to ordinances".

The root word (Dogma, Ordinance) remains constant. The only difference is in the phrase.

23 Which things have indeed a shew of wisdom in will worship, and humility, and neglecting of the body; not in any honour to the satisfying of the flesh.
3:1 If ye then be risen with Messiah, seek those things which are above, where Messiah sitteth on the right hand of Yahweh.
2 Set your affection on things above, not on things on the earth.
3 For ye are dead, and your life is hid with Messiah in Yahweh.

So in conclusion, Paul is saying that we should beware lest any man spoil us through these commandments, philosophies and doctrines of men. For Yahushua took them out of the way and nailed them to the tree thereby forgiving us for accepting them. Because of this we should let no man judge us for keeping Yahweh's commandments unless they are a part of the body of the Messiah. Therefore we should hold fast to the Head of that body, namely Yahushua from whom we are nourished and do not subject ourselves to pagan ordinances. For even though these have an appearance of wisdom, they are of no value. So we should set our minds on things above, not on the things of the world.

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The Jewish Sabbath is still Saturday but the Christian Sabbath is in Christ - not on Saturday or Sunday.

Sunday is the traditional day of worship for Christians but it is not a binding Sabbath that we must observe on that particular day. Days are shadows - the substance is Christ.

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Originally posted by barrykind:
Do we really love and seek Truth?

Or are we content with the traditions handed down to us by the generation befor us?

WHEN SUNDAY IS MENTIONED IN THE NEW TESTAMENT, ISN'T IT ALWAYS SOMETHING SPECIAL? COULDN'T IT BE INFERRED THAT SUNDAY WAS THE SPECIAL DAY FOR THE APOSTLES?

The first day of the week is mentioned eight times in the New Testament:

MATTHEW 28:1; MARK 16:l-2,9; LUKE 24:l; JOHN 20:1: All are accounts of the resurrection.
Matthew, Mark, Luke, and John all wrote their gospels many years after Christ's death, yet every one of them refers to Sunday as simply, “the first day of the week,” nothing more, nothing special.

JOHN 20:19: The disciples were hiding in the upper room behind closed doors in terror of the Jews.

ACTS 20:7-8: The dark part of the first day of the week is Saturday night (see New English Bible)

(MARK l:21,32; LEVITICUS 23:32). The service began on Sabbath and continued into the night. The first day of the week began at sundown. Paul spent most of Sunday, the next day, walking through swampy country from Troas to Assos where he was to catch a ship. “Breaking bread” was done “daily”

(ACTS 2:46) and was not necessarily associated with an assembly for worship. In this case it was most likely a going away supper for Paul.

1CORINTHIANS 16:1-2 “Lay by in store” does not mean, “put in the collection plate at the church.” It means to set aside at home. Some of the modern translations put it in this way. It means that the first act of business in the new week should be to separate a portion for God's service. After God's tithe and offerings are separated then we may continue with our regular business.

The weekly Sabbath is mentioned in the New Testament fifty-six times.

Matthew
12:1-8, 10-12
24:20
28:1

Mark
1:21
2:23-28
3:2-4
6:2
15:42
16:1

Luke
4:16,31
6:1-9
13:10-16
14:1-5
23:54,56

John
5:9,10,16,18
7:22,23
19:14,16,31

Acts
13:14,27,42,44
15:21
16:13
18:4


In the eight passages which mention the first day of the week there is no command to keep it; there is no record of its being appointed as a sabbath; no record of any blessing being placed upon it; no record of its being made holy; no record of any sacredness being attached to it; no promise of a blessing for its observance; no threat of punishment for its nonobservance. It is not once given any sacred title. There is no record that Christ kept Sunday or commanded it to be kept. There is no record that the apostles kept it or commanded it to be kept.

9. DID PAUL KEEP THE SABBATH AFTER HIS CONVERSION TO CHRIST?
ACTS 26:11 . . . .
Saul the persecutor always knew where to find the Christians. He persecuted them in every synagogue. And they worshiped in the synagogue on the Sabbath.

ACTS 13:14-16 . . . .
In Antioch Paul worshiped on Sabbath.

ACTS 13:44 . . . . .
The next Sabbath in Antioch Paul preached to the Gentiles, (He didn't tell them to meet him on Sunday) and almost the whole city came to hear him.

ACTS 16:13 . . . . .
In Philippi, where there were no Jews therefore no synagogue, Paul went out by the river to worship on Sabbath.

ACTS 18:4,11 . . . .
In Corinth he "reasoned in the synagogue every Sabbath" for a year and a half, or 78 Sabbaths. If Sunday were indeed the new day of worship, doesn't it seem that he could have got that point across before a year and a half?

ACTS 17:2 . . . .
In Thessalonica “Paul, as his custom was, went in (to the synagogue) to them, and for three Sabbaths reasoned with them from the scriptures.”

10. WHY DOESN'T PAUL STATE SPECIFICALLY THAT THE SEVENTH DAY IS THE SABBATH? IN FACT DOESN'T PAUL SAY THAT EVERY MAN SHOULD BE PERSUADED IN HIS OWN MIND?

A. Paul and other NT writers exhorted all to read and study the Scriptures which “will make you wise unto salvation.” The only Scriptures available at that time were the Old Testament, which are replete with references to the sacredness of the 7th day Sabbath.

B. The Jews were ready to kill Paul because he declared specifically that circumcision, was no longer necessary (GALATIANS 5:6-15). If Paul had declared that the Sabbath was changed or done away with, would not some account of the furor that would have caused be found in the account of his ministry. The Jews considered Sabbath observance at least as important as circumcision, yet great text is given to the account of the debate over circumcision and nothing is said about a change of the Sabbath.
Paul said, “I have fully preached the gospel of Christ” (ROMANS 15:19). Nothing was left out.

C. It is true that Paul said “Let every man be convinced in his own mind” (ROMANS 14:5). But isn't this the ideal we preach today. Each person must study and decide for himself the truth of the gospel of Christ. No observance, whether prayer or fasting or giving offerings, or Sabbath keeping is valid if the person does not understand the reason for what he is doing.

This statement reflects the change in Paul after the Damascus road. He no longer forced his beliefs on anyone. Even if he knew he was right he said “do not judge your brother.” How different from the Saul who dragged the Christians to Jerusalem in chains.

D. Devout Jews held to the custom of fasting twice a week. Paul was probably referring to this custom, because He mentions eating and not eating along with observing and not observing certain days. The days observed appear to be those days upon which certain men fasted. The context does not mention the 7th day Sabbath (Romans 14:1- 7). Paul appears to have kept the 7th day Sabbath, and there are passages which suggest that he also kept the festivals (1Corinthians 16:8, Acts 20:6, Acts 20:16). ( See also 1Corinthians 5:7-8 where Paul instructs the church regarding the keeping of the Passover.)

11. DIDN'T PAUL DESCRIBE SABBATH KEEPING AS TURNING AGAIN TO WEAK AND BEGGARLY ELEMENTS?

GALATIANS 4:9,10 “But how after you have known God, or rather are known by God, how is it that you turn again to the weak and beggarly elements, to which you desire again to be in bondage? You observe days and months and seasons and years.”

Bible teachers have differing interpretations of this passage. The Galatians were not Jews. These people had been pagans, and followed the cults of sun worship. Some say that they were now turning back to the things which they had left - worship of heavenly bodies.

Other teachers say that the Galatians who had come to belief in Christ, had been taken in by the circumcision party who were “zealous for the law.” They had themselves circumcised, and began keeping all of the Jewish festivals in order to be saved. Paul was adamant that we are saved by faith in Christ - not by “works of the law.” Keeping the Jewish festivals in order to be saved would be no better than observing pagan astral festivals in order to live forever. Both involved a type of salvation by works, and so would be called “weak and beggarly elements.

The apostle Paul refers to the law in two ways. Paul seems to be for the law and against it at the same time. This is most confusing to some. In Colossians 2:14, “the handwriting of requirements” is “wiped out,” while in Romans 3:31, he explains that justification by faith in Jesus Christ does not overthrow the law but “establishes” it. In Romans 7:6, he states that “now we are discharged from the law,” while a few verses later he writes that “the law is holy, and the commandment is holy and just and good” (7:12). In Romans 10:4, Paul writes that “Christ is the end of the law,” while in 8:3-4, he explains that Christ came “in the likeness of sinful flesh . . . in order that the just requirements of the law might be fulfilled in us.” Paul maintains in Romans 3:28 that “a man is justified by faith apart from works of the law,” yet in 1Corinthians 7:19, he states that “neither circumcision counts for anything nor uncircumcision, but keeping the commandments of God.” In 2Corinthians 3:7 Paul designates the law as “the dispensation of death,” while in Romans 3:2, he views it as part of the “oracles of God” entrusted to the Jews.

How can Paul view the law both as “abolished” and “established”, unnecessary and necessary? The answer is to be found in the context. When Paul speaks of the law in the context of salvation, he clearly states that law-keeping useless. “If justification were through the law, then Christ died to no purpose” (Galatians 2:21). When he speaks of the law in the context of Christian moral conduct, he maintains the value and validity of God’s law. In fact, Christ came, “in order that the just requirements of the law might be fulfilled in us” through the working of His Holy Spirit. While Paul said that the law was “abolished” as a method of earning salvation, he upheld the law as a standard of Christian conduct.

Let me just say that I do not keep the law in order to be saved. I do my best to keep God’s commandments because I believe that I have been saved, and am being saved, through the grace of Christ. This includes the 4th commandment to keep the 7th day Sabbath.

12. BUT AREN'T WE UNDER GRACE NOW? THE LAW AND THE OLD TESTAMENT HAVE BEEN ABOLISHED. Please read the study entitled GRACE AND THE LAW. http://www.aggelia.com/htdocs/grace.shtml


13. THE JERUSALEM COUNCIL DID NOT MENTION SABBATH KEEPING. AS A REQUIREMENT FOR GENTILE BELIEVERS.

“Therefore I judge that we should not trouble those from among the Gentiles who are turning to God, but that we write to them to abstain from things polluted by idols, from sexual immorality, from things strangled, and from blood. For Moses has had throughout many generations those who preach him in every city, being read in the synagogues every Sabbath.”

Stealing, murder, disrespect for parents, bearing false witness, and taking God’s name in vain, were not mentioned either. This doesn’t mean those things are acceptable behavior for believers.
The appeal is made to Moses (meaning the first five books of the Bible) who is read in the synagogue every Sabbath. It is assumed that the Gentile believers will be in attendance every Sabbath, to hear such reading. Along with the history of God’s people, they will learn about the 10 Commandments, the prophetic festivals, the health laws, and all the other things relevant to their new relationship with the true God.

Peter admonished the Jerusalem council not to put a “yoke on the neck” of the Gentile converts “which neither our father nor we were able to bear” (Acts 15:10). What was this yoke? If the yoke refers to the 10 Commandments, then we must say that God put a yoke upon His own people which they were not able to bear. If however, the yoke refers to the man made concept of “righteousness by works of the law” then Paul is telling the council not to preach righteousness by works. This agrees completely with Paul.

14. WHAT ABOUT EPHESIANS 2:14?

“For He Himself is our peace, who has made both one (that is Jew and Gentile), and has broken down the middle wall of division between us, having abolished in His flesh the enmity, that is , the law of commandments contained in ordinances, so as to create in Himself one new man from the two, thus making peace, and that He might reconcile them both to God in one body through the cross, thereby putting to death the enmity.”

In Ephesians 2, Paul is speaking about the separation of Jew and Gentile. “You know,” Peter said, “how unlawful it is for a Jewish man to keep company with or go to one of another nation” (Acts 10:28). Now, in Christ, they were to call no man unclean. The laws dictating the separation of Jew and Gentile were abolished.

15. NO ONE IS TO JUDGE ANOTHER REGARDING A SABBATH (COLOSSIANS 2:13-17).

“And you (Gentiles), being dead in your trespasses and the uncircumcision of your flesh, He has made alive together with Him, having forgiven you all trespasses, having wiped out the handwriting of requirements that was against us, which was contrary to us. And he has taken it out of the way, having nailed it to the cross. . . . Therefore let no one judge you in food (grain offerings) or drink (offerings), or regarding a festival or a new moon, or sabbaths, which are a shadow of things to come, but the substance is of Christ.” (See also Hebrews 9:10.)

[NOTE: Food itself was not a symbol “of things to come.” The passage is not addressing dietary laws. The “food” and “drink” refer to the offering of grain and wine, called “meat offering” and “drink offering,” which were made with every animal sacrifice.]

Paul could be understood to say “let no one judge you regarding” (whether or not you keep) “a festival . . . or sabbaths.” On the other hand, he could be understood to say “let no one judge you regarding” (the way in which you keep) “a festival . . . or sabbaths.” The meaning is not absolutely clear. Since Paul himself appears to have kept the festivals, (at least Passover and Pentecost)I believe the second interpretation is the most likely. The Christians partook of bread and wine at Passover, rather than of a sacrificial lamb. They did not bring animals for sacrifice on any festival day. They may not have appeared at the Temple in Jerusalem, at the festival times, believing that Christ now ministered in heaven (the true tabernacle) not made with hands.

What is “the handwriting of requirements that was against us?” Some say that this refers to all of the ceremonial law along with the 7th day Sabbath. A more accurate translation of “handwriting of ordinances” is “the written code.” In context, this handwritten code is wiped out because we are forgiven. I personally believe that the “handwritten code” refers to all of the rules piled upon the Jews by the Pharisees who taught righteousness-by-works. Jesus said, they were “teaching for doctrine the commandments of men” (Matt. 15:9). Paul here says that it is no longer necessary to keep all those commandments of men., because we have been forgiven by faith in Jesus Christ.

The “handwriting of ordinances” was “against us.” Did God give His own people something that was “against them?” I think not! The law given by God was for their benefit. It contained a living prophecy of Messiah to come. The “traditions of men” as Christ called them, were a yoke which they were not able to bear.

16. DOESN’T THE WRITER OF HEBREWS SAY THAT THE LAW HAS BEEN CHANGED?

“For the priesthood being changed, of necessity there is also a change of the law” (HEBREWS 7:12).
In place of animal sacrifices we now have Christ - “the Lamb of God” (Hebrews 10:4, 9-10). In place of the Levitical priesthood we now have Christ our High Priest, who ministers in heaven - the true tabernacle (Hebrews 8:1-2). The new covenant has made the old covenant “obsolete” (Hebrews 8:13, 10:9). Three things are specifically said to be changed in religious practice - the sacrifice, the priesthood, and the Temple. Nowhere does the text say that the Ten Commandments were changed or abolished.
The law which was changed, was “received” on the basis of the Levitical priesthood (Hebrews 7:11). The 7th day was “hallowed” at creation, long before a Levitical priesthood existed. In fact, the Ten Commandments were spoken from Mt. Sinai before the Levites were appointed as the priesthood (Exodus 20). The law which was changed concerned those sacrifices which were carried out in association with the Sanctuary (or Temple). No priesthood is necessary in order to keep the 7th day holy.

17. OUR CHURCH HAS THE HOLY SPIRIT, AND I HAVE THE SPIRIT TO GUIDE ME. HE WOULD NOT LEAD ME WRONG.

JOHN 16:13 . . . .
“when He, the Spirit of truth, has come, He will guide you into all truth.”

JOHN 17:17 . . . .
“Thy word is truth.”

PSALM ll9:142 . . . . .
“Thy Law is truth.”

JOHN 14:26 . . . . .
(the Holy Spirit) “He shall teach you all things, and bring all things to your remembrance, whatsoever I have said unto you.”
The Holy Spirit will not teach anything that Christ did not teach, or did not say.

1 JOHN 4:l . . . .
“Believe not every spirit, but test the spirits, whether they are of God; because many false prophets are gone out into the world.”

ISAIAH 8:20
“To the law and to the testimony: if they speak not according to this word, it is because there is no light in them.”

DANIEL 7:25
The antichrist power will “think to change time and law.” The only commandment that involves time is the Sabbath commandment.

2 CORINTHIANS ll:14

“Satan himself is transformed into an angel of light.”

18. HASN'T THE CALENDAR BEEN CHANGED SO MANY TIMES THAT IT IS IMPOSSIBLE TO TELL WHICH DAY IS THE SEVENTH DAY?

Modern astronomers will tell you very quickly that no time has been lost in the last 3000 years, at the very least.

The manna fell for forty years. It fell on the six days of the week and did not fall on the Sabbath, thus reestablishing the weekly cycle (EX 16). There was no question in Christ's mind as to which day was the seventh, and no days have been lost since the time of Christ.

One calendar change which is frequently questioned was the Gregorian Calendar, accepted in l752. It skipped 11 days, from Sept 2 thru Sept 14, but it did not break the order of the days. Sept 2 was a Wed. and Sept 14 a Thursday.

19. SO LONG AS I KEEP NINE OUT OF THE TEN ISN'T THAT ENOUGH?

JAMES 2:10 “For whoever shall keep the whole law, and yet stumble in one point, he is guilty of all.”

LUKE 13:3 Speaking of sinners both great and small. “Except you repent, you shall all likewise perish.”
If we know that something is right but we resist it, then we are really resisting God, and Christ Jesus. This is the spirit of sin, selfishness, and rebellion. God cannot take this spirit into His kingdom.
If we are careless with the Sabbath, we are really saying to others that this commandment isn't important. We are acting as if God just made up something to irritate us and to be a burden. We are implying that God is arbitrary, which is just what Lucifer said in the beginning. To be careless with the Sabbath and thereby encourage others to be so, is to impugn the character of God. This makes it a very serious, in fact the worst of sins.

In Eden there were two trees. In earth's last days there are two days. We must choose whom we will serve. God has said that the Sabbath is a sign between Himself and His people.

The Sabbath commandment gives the Title of the Ruler, The Territory over which he rules, and the Name of the Ruler: The Lord your God, Creator of the heavens and the earth. These are the elements needed to create an ancient “seal.” The remnant of Revelation 7, who have the “seal of God," are also described in Revelation 12:17 as keeping the commandments of God. The 4th commandment was never excluded.

HOW TO KEEP THE SABBATH HOLY

LEVITICUS 23:32 The Sabbath begins at sunset on Friday.

MARK 16:1,2 The Sabbath is over when the first day of the week beings at sunset on Saturday.

EXODUS 20:8-11 Refrain from work. Even in harvest time and planting time, refrain from work. (EXODUS 34:21)

ISAIAH 58:13 Refrain from doing your own pleasure, that is secular entertainment, or activities which would call the mind away from spiritual things. On the Sabbath we renew our relationship with our God, and with fellow believers.

NEHEMIAH 13:15-21 Refrain from buying and selling on the Sabbath.

LUKE 4:16 Worship with others.

MATTHEW 12:9-14 Do works of mercy, relieving pain and suffering.

LUKE 4:16 Worship with others.

MATTHEW 12:9-14 Do works of mercy, relieving pain and suffering.

LUKE 4:31 Share with others a knowledge of God.

LUKE 14:l Enjoy Christian fellowship for the purpose of discussing spiritual things and for praying together.

becausehelives

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quote:

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It really starts to make me nervous when I hear the word "SPECIAL" !

You know like a gay thang...

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Originally posted by barrykind:
wildb stated:

quote:

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It really starts to make me nervous when I hear the word "SPECIAL" !

You know like a gay thang...

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Matt 23:28 Even so ye also outwardly appear righteous unto men, but within ye are full of hypocrisy and iniquity

Acts 8:23
For I perceive that thou art in the gall of bitterness, and in the bond of iniquity.

1 Cor 6:9 Know ye not that the unrighteous shall not inherit the kingdom of God? Be not deceived: neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor abusers of themselves with mankind,

Romans 1:27
And likewise also the men, leaving the natural use of the woman, burned in their lust one toward another; men with men working that which is unseemly, and receiving in themselves that recompence of their error which was meet.


check yourself brother!

bondservant
barry

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Originally posted by barrykind:
when i posted something "special" i had no reference to homosexuals nor homosexuality..

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Originally posted by Betty Louise:
yahsway

Paul was indeed talking about Jewish Christians who were trying to force Gentile Christians to become Jewish. Barry and several others are doing the same thing here. Paul would come out against them for adding to what God requires for salvation.

Rom 10:9 That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved.


Over and over people have shown that the law is our school master to show us that we are sinners and need Christ. The law does NOT save anyone.

I am still waiting for one person to tell me how they are able to keep every law in Leviticus.
betty

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Betty Louise you are point on...

The shadow puppet show is getting rather old but let us continue to pray that the shadow talkers seek a different Curtain call.

One not based on their observance/performance of the law but Faith in Christ.

For no other foundation (stage) can be built upon than that of Jesus Christ.

Let our Curtain call be recognized by the Grace of God and his mercy thru Christ and not by the Law.

In Jesus Name,

Amen



 

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Posted by Caretaker (Member # 36) on :
 
The Word declares the disciples gathered to break bread on the first day of the week.

Acts 20:7 7: And upon the first day of the week, when the disciples came together to break bread, Paul preached unto them, ready to depart on the morrow; and continued his speech until midnight.


1 John 3:4
23: And this is his commandment, That we should believe on the name of his Son Jesus Christ, and love one another, as he gave us commandment.

Col. 2:
14: Blotting out the handwriting of ordinances that was against us, which was contrary to us, and took it out of the way, nailing it to his cross;
15: And having spoiled principalities and powers, he made a shew of them openly, triumphing over them in it.
16: Let no man therefore judge you in meat, or in drink, or in respect of an holyday, or of the new moon, or of the sabbath days:
17: Which are a shadow of things to come; but the body is of Christ.

It is the Judaisers which sought to impose the ordinances of the Law of Moses upon the Gentile believers. The ordinances fulfilled in Christ Jesus our Lord and nailed to the Cross of Calvary.

Acts 17:

1: Now when they had passed through Amphipolis and Apollonia, they came to Thessalonica, where was a synagogue of the Jews:
2: And Paul, as his manner was, went in unto them, and three sabbath days reasoned with them out of the scriptures,
3: Opening and alleging, that Christ must needs have suffered, and risen again from the dead; and that this Jesus, whom I preach unto you, is Christ.
4: And some of them believed, and consorted with Paul and Silas; and of the devout Greeks a great multitude, and of the chief women not a few.

The manner of Paul was to go unto them when they gathered and reason with them out of the scriptures. The Jews and devout Greeks gathered on the Sabbath and that was when they were available with the scriptures.

Acts 13:
1: Now there were in the church that was at Antioch certain prophets and teachers; as Barnabas, and Simeon that was called Niger, and Lucius of Cyrene, and Manaen, which had been brought up with Herod the tetrarch, and Saul.
2: As they ministered to the Lord, and fasted, the Holy Ghost said, Separate me Barnabas and Saul for the work whereunto I have called them.
3: And when they had fasted and prayed, and laid their hands on them, they sent them away.
4: So they, being sent forth by the Holy Ghost, departed unto Seleucia; and from thence they sailed to Cyprus.
5: And when they were at Salamis, they preached the word of God in the synagogues of the Jews: and they had also John to their minister.

14: But when they departed from Perga, they came to Antioch in Pisidia, and went into the synagogue on the sabbath day, and sat down.
15: And after the reading of the law and the prophets the rulers of the synagogue sent unto them, saying, Ye men and brethren, if ye have any word of exhortation for the people, say on.
16: Then Paul stood up, and beckoning with his hand said, Men of Israel, and ye that fear God, give audience.

42: And when the Jews were gone out of the synagogue, the Gentiles besought that these words might be preached to them the next sabbath.
43: Now when the congregation was broken up, many of the Jews and religious proselytes followed Paul and Barnabas: who, speaking to them, persuaded them to continue in the grace of God.
44: And the next sabbath day came almost the whole city together to hear the word of God.
45: But when the Jews saw the multitudes, they were filled with envy, and spake against those things which were spoken by Paul, contradicting and blaspheming.
46: Then Paul and Barnabas waxed bold, and said, It was necessary that the word of God should first have been spoken to you: but seeing ye put it from you, and judge yourselves unworthy of everlasting life, lo, we turn to the Gentiles.
47: For so hath the Lord commanded us, saying, I have set thee to be a light of the Gentiles, that thou shouldest be for salvation unto the ends of the earth.
48: And when the Gentiles heard this, they were glad, and glorified the word of the Lord: and as many as were ordained to eternal life believed.
49: And the word of the Lord was published throughout all the region.

To the Jew first in the synagogues, and then to the Gentiles. When did the Jews gather and hear the Word?

The Jews gathered on the Sabbath.


1. Creation was completed in six days.
2. God rested on the seventh day.
3. God blessed the seventh day.
4. God sanctified the seventh day.
5. The reason God sanctified the seventh day was because He rested on it.
6. The seventh-day account does not have the formula "and there was evening and there was morning, a seventh day" as do the six days of creation.
7. There is no mention of the word "Sabbath" in the book of Genesis.
8. There is no command for mankind to rest in the Genesis account.
9. Nothing is expressly mentioned regarding man in the seventh-day-creation rest.
10. The seventh-day "rest" of God was most likely characterized by His delight in His new creations and in open fellowship with Adam and Eve in the sin-free, perfect environment of Eden.
11. The conditions which characterized the "rest" of God would probably have continued had it not been for man's sin.
12. The seventh day of Gen 2:2,3 may have been a regular day as were the first six days of creation, or it may have been an indefinite period of time.
13. The Genesis account does not mention an end to God's seventh-day rest. It is presented as an ongoing state by the omission of "and there was evening and there was morning, a seventh day". The fact that the Genesis account is so carefully constructed indicates that this omission was not accidental.
14. When man sinned, he was excluded from God's REST and God began His WORK of redemption to restore man back to himself.
What is this new "WORK" which God started immediately after Adam and Eve sinned? We read that "The Lord God MADE garments of skin for Adam and his wife, and clothed them" (Gen 3:21). This event was the beginning of a "WORK" which would continue throughout the centuries until it's significance would become fully revealed in the death of Christ. The death of that first lamb, while not mentioned as such in the Genesis account, was the acorn of the great truth which, through the following centuries, would grow into the great, spreading oak of righteousness by faith. It pointed forward to Christ's substitutionary life and death for lost mankind. Naked Adam and Eve were clothed with robes made from the skin of the lamb - a substitute who gave his life. Millennia later Paul would put this same truth in these words:
He made Him who knew no sin to be sin on our behalf, that we might become the righteousness of God in Him. 2 Corinthians 5:21
All of you who were baptized into Christ have clothed yourselves with Christ. Galatians 3:27
The work of redemption was the work which God started when man sinned and was driven from Eden's rest. This work would continue until man was restored to God's true rest. Jesus is our Sabbath rest, not some 24-hour period of time

Romans 14
1
Him that is weak in the faith receive ye, but not to doubtful disputations.
2
For one believeth that he may eat all things: another, who is weak, eateth herbs.
3
Let not him that eateth despise him that eateth not; and let not him which eateth not judge him that eateth: for God hath received him.
4
Who art thou that judgest another man's servant? to his own master he standeth or falleth. Yea, he shall be holden up: for God is able to make him stand.
5
One man esteemeth one day above another: another esteemeth every day alike. Let every man be fully persuaded in his own mind.
6
He that regardeth the day, regardeth it unto the Lord; and he that regardeth not the day, to the Lord he doth not regard it. He that eateth, eateth to the Lord, for he giveth God thanks; and he that eateth not, to the Lord he eateth not, and giveth God thanks.
7
For none of us liveth to himself, and no man dieth to himself.
8
For whether we live, we live unto the Lord; and whether we die, we die unto the Lord: whether we live therefore, or die, we are the Lord's.


Galations 3:

23
But before faith came, we were kept under the law, shut up unto the faith which should afterwards be revealed.
24
Wherefore the law was our schoolmaster to bring us unto Christ, that we might be justified by faith.
25
But after that faith is come, we are no longer under a schoolmaster.
26
For ye are all the children of God by faith in Christ Jesus.
27
For as many of you as have been baptized into Christ have put on Christ.
28
There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither bond nor free, there is neither male nor female: for ye are all one in Christ Jesus.
29
And if ye be Christ's, then are ye Abraham's seed, and heirs according to the promise.


No where in the Word is Noah commanded to keep the Sabbath.

No where in the Word is Abraham commanded to keep the Sabbath.

Neither are Issac, or Jacob, or Joseph.

It was not until the Children of Israel had arrived at Sinai was the Sabbath given to them as part of the 600+ Commandments of God.

We are not under the Law of Moses given on Sinai, but under the Grace of Christ.

24
Wherefore the law was our schoolmaster to bring us unto Christ, that we might be justified by faith.
25
But after that faith is come, we are no longer under a schoolmaster.
26
For ye are all the children of God by faith in Christ Jesus.
 

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Posted by barrykind (Member # 35) on :
 
Both your Brothers Drew (Caretaker); wildb (Bill); yall need to read the bood "THE TWO BABYLONS" by Alexander Hislop

This book will educate you both on the pagans who influenced the church after the second century.....................

ie

Dec. 25, is not The Messiahs Birth Day..He came out of Heaven (Word Became Flesh and dwelt amoung us)

To celebrate HIS birth on thewinter solstice is to say Yahushua had a begining....DID Yahushua not tell the pharasees..BEFORE ABRAHAM WAS I AM?


Did Yahushua not make himself equal to YaHWeH?

Yep....Study out these "TRADITIOONS" of Men/ and heathern worship practices...

Man yall have notprob. celebrating a heathern h\oliday such as "chistmass"..............why do you have a problem with YHWH's feasts?????


Man wake up and smell the coffe.
(kinda a Brother wildb (BILL) answer

Man learn what you celebrate and why it OFFENDS our Father in Heaven........

the kid gloves are off.wildb this is serious and most eternal business.....not just your pet make believe "shadow" talking stuff.


Brother pay close attention to what we say; it will be reminded us at the judgement.


barry
 

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Posted by Caretaker (Member # 36) on :
 
Ducking down a rabbit trail Brother Barry.
 

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Posted by barrykind (Member # 35) on :
 
Brother Drew states:

quote:

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The Word declares the disciples gathered to break bread on the first day of the week.

Acts 20:7 7: And upon the first day of the week, when the disciples came together to break bread, Paul preached unto them, ready to depart on the morrow; and continued his speech until midnight.

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quote:

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Originally posted by barrykind:
Brother Drew states:

quote:

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The Word declares the disciples gathered to break bread on the first day of the week.

Acts 20:7 7: And upon the first day of the week, when the disciples came together to break bread, Paul preached unto them, ready to depart on the morrow; and continued his speech until midnight.

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they broke bread everyday together brother Drew.


I have been through scriptures "beyond" any shadow of doubt and proved over and over and over again......
what day is the Sabbath; what day the apostles celebrated...THEY WITHOUT ANY FEAR OF CONTRADICTION CELEBRATED FRI EVE TO SAT EVE...They held up a colored string and a white string, and when they could not tell the difference in color at dusck dark, the Sabbath begain..............Get off trying to follow the Roman Catholic church, Constatene and the pagans , shake yourselfs free from the "traditions of men" and follow Yahushua!

The Original THREAD is which day is the Sabbath???????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????

It is without a doubt Fri eve to sat eve...no question..Always was and will be!

Are we to honor it and "REMEMBER IT" as YHWH said to, how to honor it and how to "KEEP" it well thats another thread isnt it?

what think ye?


barry

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quote:

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And for all those who might be interested, I am NOT a 7th day Adventist. There are many believers besides those who still hold the Sabbath day as Saturday, mostly all your believing Jews. Just because a Jew comes to saving grace in Messiah Yeshua, does not abrogate any of the Laws of God.

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quote:

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Originally posted by Caretaker:

quote:

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Originally posted by barrykind:
Brother Drew states:

quote:

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The Word declares the disciples gathered to break bread on the first day of the week.

Acts 20:7 7: And upon the first day of the week, when the disciples came together to break bread, Paul preached unto them, ready to depart on the morrow; and continued his speech until midnight.

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they broke bread everyday together brother Drew.


I have been through scriptures "beyond" any shadow of doubt and proved over and over and over again......
what day is the Sabbath; what day the apostles celebrated...THEY WITHOUT ANY FEAR OF CONTRADICTION CELEBRATED FRI EVE TO SAT EVE...They held up a colored string and a white string, and when they could not tell the difference in color at dusck dark, the Sabbath begain..............Get off trying to follow the Roman Catholic church, Constatene and the pagans , shake yourselfs free from the "traditions of men" and follow Yahushua!

The Original THREAD is which day is the Sabbath???????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????

It is without a doubt Fri eve to sat eve...no question..Always was and will be!

Are we to honor it and "REMEMBER IT" as YHWH said to, how to honor it and how to "KEEP" it well thats another thread isnt it?

what think ye?


barry

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Beyond a shadow of a doubt the Jewish Sabbath has not changed.

Beyond a shadow of a doubt the Law of Moses was fulfilled in Christ.

Beyond a shadow of a doubt the Sabbath was not placed upon the Gentiles by the Jerusalem Council.

Beyond a shadow of a doubt Jesus is our Sabbath, 24/7.

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Originally posted by barrykind:
nice points Brother Yahsway

barrykind

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How can men claim that this one commandment has been done away with when they will admit that the other nine are still binding?

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Drew, the Law of Mose's is nailed to the cross but Yahweh's Law is in your heart if you are a believer! Indwelling presence of Christ is The Law of Yahweh expressing the nature of Yahweh in the life of the believer that walks after the Spirit!

to me it is not about a day, it is about not calling Yahweh a liar!

if I understand the topic question...

What day is the real Sabbath and why?

there is no argument in my mind the Sabbath is Saturday not Sunday.

Yahweh himself set it aside and called it Holy.

if Yahweh called it Holy, I will call it Holy.

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Posted by barrykind (Member # 35) on :
 
Brother Drew states:

quote:

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No Dale!!!

We do not need to take the Law of Moses down from the Cross and yoke it to the believers.

When we have the indwelling presence of Christ we go so far beyond the ten commandments, and Jesus is our Sabbath rest not the Sabbath Day ONLY given to the Children of Israel.

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Absolutely proposperous my Brother!


If the Law,ten Commandments, etc was nailed to the cross and "done away with" as you propose then::

without a law there is NO penalty for sin, and if no penalty for sin then OSAS would be right.

But to do that as you propose Sir.....One would have to throw out most all of the new testement....

Why would Paul constantly warn to walk circumspect????

WHY?

If there is no law then there is no penaltyfor breaking YHWH's LAW!

Why would he say: For Yahweh is not MOCKED, whatsoever a man soweth that shall he also REA_P:


Galatians 6
1Brethren, if a man be overtaken in a fault, ye which are spiritual, restore such an one in the spirit of meekness; considering thyself, lest thou also be tempted.

2Bear ye one another's burdens, and so fulfil the law of Christ.

3For if a man think himself to be something, when he is nothing, he deceiveth himself.

4But let every man prove his own work, and then shall he have rejoicing in himself alone, and not in another.

5For every man shall bear his own burden.

6Let him that is taught in the word communicate unto him that teacheth in all good things.

7Be not deceived; God is not mocked: for whatsoever a man soweth, that shall he also reap.

8For he that soweth to his flesh shall of the flesh reap corruption; but he that soweth to the Spirit shall of the Spirit reap life everlasting.

9And let us not be weary in well doing: for in due season we shall reap, if we faint not.

10As we have therefore opportunity, let us do good unto all men, especially unto them who are of the household of faith.


NOTICE BROTHER NOTICE BROTHER NOTICE BROTHER


8For he that soweth to his flesh shall of the flesh reap corruption; but he that soweth to the Spirit shall of the Spirit reap life everlasting.


GOD YHWH WILL NOTBE MOCKED>>>YOU SIN AND NO REPENTANCE YOUR DONE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


IF IF IF IF ; the law is gone..WHY would Paul make such a stattement.......For BIBLE says :


Romans 5
1Therefore being justified by faith, we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ:

2By whom also we have access by faith into this grace wherein we stand, and rejoice in hope of the glory of God.

3And not only so, but we glory in tribulations also: knowing that tribulation worketh patience;

4And patience, experience; and experience, hope:

5And hope maketh not ashamed; because the love of God is shed abroad in our hearts by the Holy Ghost which is given unto us.

6For when we were yet without strength, in due time Christ died for the ungodly.

7For scarcely for a righteous man will one die: yet peradventure for a good man some would even dare to die.

8But God commendeth his love toward us, in that, while we were yet sinners, Christ died for us.

9Much more then, being now justified by his blood, we shall be saved from wrath through him.

10For if, when we were enemies, we were reconciled to God by the death of his Son, much more, being reconciled, we shall be saved by his life.

11And not only so, but we also joy in God through our Lord Jesus Christ, by whom we have now received the atonement.

12Wherefore, as by one man sin entered into the world, and death by sin; and so death passed upon all men, for that all have sinned:

13(For until the law sin was in the world: but sin is not imputed when there is no law.

14Nevertheless death reigned from Adam to Moses, even over them that had not sinned after the similitude of Adam's transgression, who is the figure of him that was to come.

15But not as the offence, so also is the free gift. For if through the offence of one many be dead, much more the grace of God, and the gift by grace, which is by one man, Jesus Christ, hath abounded unto many.

16And not as it was by one that sinned, so is the gift: for the judgment was by one to condemnation, but the free gift is of many offences unto justification.

17For if by one man's offence death reigned by one; much more they which receive abundance of grace and of the gift of righteousness shall reign in life by one, Jesus Christ.)

18Therefore as by the offence of one judgment came upon all men to condemnation; even so by the righteousness of one the free gift came upon all men unto justification of life.

19For as by one man's disobedience many were made sinners, so by the obedience of one shall many be made righteous.

20Moreover the law entered, that the offence might abound. But where sin abounded, grace did much more abound:

21That as sin hath reigned unto death, even so might grace reign through righteousness unto eternal life by Jesus Christ our Lord.

13(For until the law sin was in the world: but sin is not imputed when there is no law.


Speaking here of Moses and the TEN COMMANDMENTS

My Goodness man wake up!


barry
 

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Posted by Carol Swenson (Member # 6929) on :
 
You keep dancing back and forth between the Old and New Covenants. There are commands in the New Covenant we are to obey; we are not without law. But it is not the law of the Old Covenant.

If you want to adhere to the Old Covenant law, you have to keep ALL of it, not just the Ten Commandments. It cannot be divided.
 

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Posted by Betty Louise (Member # 7175) on :
 
Barry,

Heaven is going to mighty small since only people who attend your Church are going to be there.
Betty
 

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Posted by barrykind (Member # 35) on :
 
Sister Carol States:

quote:

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You keep dancing back and forth between the Old and New Covenants. There are commands in the New Covenant we are to obey; we are not without law. But it is not the law of the Old Covenant.

If you want to adhere to the Old Covenant law, you have to keep ALL of it, not just the Ten Commandments. It cannot be divided

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quote:

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Barry,

Heaven is going to mighty small since only people who attend your Church are going to be there.
Betty

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quote:

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Originally posted by barrykind:
Sister Carol States:

quote:

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You keep dancing back and forth between the Old and New Covenants. There are commands in the New Covenant we are to obey; we are not without law. But it is not the law of the Old Covenant.

If you want to adhere to the Old Covenant law, you have to keep ALL of it, not just the Ten Commandments. It cannot be divided

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So Sister your saying the "Old Covenant Law" is what? Please List:

Tell me what is the "New Covenant Law" Your under?

So i can see exactly what your saying..

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barry, barry, so contrary, how does your testimony grow?

THE OLD COVENANT

The Mosaic Covenant is a conditional covenant made between God and the nation of Israel at Mount Sinai (Exodus 19-24). It is sometimes called the Sinai Covenant but is more often referred to as the Mosaic Covenant since Moses was God’s chosen leader of Israel at that time. The pattern of the covenant is very similar to other ancient covenants of that time because it is between a sovereign king (God) and his people or subjects (Israel). At the time of the covenant, God reminded the people of their obligation to be obedient to His law (Exodus 19:5), and the people agreed to the covenant when they said, “All that the Lord has spoken we will do!” (Exodus 19:8). This covenant would serve to set the nation of Israel apart from all other nations as God’s chosen people and was as equally binding as the unconditional covenant that God made with Abraham because it is also a blood covenant. The Mosaic Covenant is a significant covenant in both God’s redemptive history and in the history of the nation of Israel through whom God would sovereignly choose to bless the world with both His written Word and the Living Word, Jesus Christ.

The Mosaic Covenant was centered around God's giving His divine law to Moses on Mount Sinai. In understanding the different covenants in the Bible and their relationship with one another, it is important to understand that the Mosaic Covenant differs significantly from the Abrahamic Covenant and later biblical covenants because it is conditional in that the blessings that God promises are directly related to Israel’s obedience to the Mosaic Law. If Israel is obedient, then God will bless them, but if they disobey, then God will punish them. The blessings and curses that are associated with this conditional covenant are found in detail in Deuteronomy 28. The other covenants found in the Bible are unilateral covenants of promise, in which God binds Himself to do what He promised, regardless of what the recipients of the promises might do. On the other hand the Mosaic Covenant is a bilateral agreement, which specifies the obligations of both parties to the covenant.

The Mosaic Covenant is especially significant because in it God promises to make Israel “a kingdom of priests and a holy nation” (Exodus 19:6). Israel was to be God’s light to the dark world around them. They were to be a separate and called-out nation so that everyone around them would know that they worshiped Yahweh, the covenant-keeping God. It is significant because it is here that Israel received the Mosaic Law that was to be a schoolmaster pointing the way towards the coming of Christ (Galatians 3:24-25). The Mosaic Law would reveal to people their sinfulness and their need for a Savior, and it is the Mosaic Law that Christ Himself said that He did not come to abolish but to fulfill. This is an important point because some people get confused by thinking that keeping the Law saved people in the Old Testament, but the Bible is clear that salvation has always been by faith alone, and the promise of salvation by faith that God had made to Abraham as part of the Abrahamic Covenant still remained in effect (Galatians 3:16-18).

Also, the sacrificial system of the Mosaic Covenant did not really take away sins (Hebrews 10:1-4); it simply foreshadowed the bearing of sin by Christ, the perfect high priest Who was also the perfect sacrifice (Hebrews 9:11-28). Therefore, the Mosaic Covenant itself, with all its detailed laws, could not save people. It is not that there was any problem with the Law itself, for the Law is perfect and was given by a holy God, but the Law had no power to give people new life, and the people were not able to obey the Law perfectly (Galatians 3:21).

The Mosaic Covenant is also referred to as the Old Covenant (2 Corinthians 3:14; Hebrews 8:6, 13) and was replaced by the New Covenant in Christ (Luke 22:20; 1 Corinthians 11:25; 2 Corinthians 3:6; Hebrews 8:8; 8:13; 9:15; 12:24). The New Covenant in Christ is far better than the old Mosaic Covenant that it replaces because it fulfills the promises made in Jeremiah 31:31-34, as quoted in Hebrews 8.

THE NEW COVENANT

The new covenant is spoken about first in the book of Jeremiah. The old covenant that God had established with His people required obedience to the Old Testament Mosaic law. Because the wages of sin is death (Romans 6:23), the law required that people perform rituals and sacrifices in order to please God and remain in His grace. The prophet Jeremiah predicted that there would be a time when God would make a new covenant with the nation of Israel.

"'The day will come,' says the Lord, 'when I will make a new covenant with the people of Israel and Judah. . . . But this is the new covenant I will make with the people of Israel on that day,' says the Lord. 'I will put my law in their minds, and I will write them on their hearts. I will be their God, and they will be my people'" (Jeremiah 31:31, 33). Jesus Christ came to fulfill the law of Moses (Matthew 5:17) and create a new covenant between God and His people. The old covenant was written in stone, but the new covenant is written on our hearts, made possible only by faith in Christ, who shed His own blood to atone for the sins of the world. Luke 22:20 says, "After supper, [Jesus] took another cup of wine and said, 'This wine is the token of God's new covenant to save you – an agreement sealed with the blood I will pour out for you.'"

Now that we are under the new covenant, we are not under the penalty of the law. We are now given the opportunity to receive salvation as a free gift (Ephesians 2:8-9). Through the life-giving Holy Spirit who lives in all believers (Romans 8:9-11), we can now share in the inheritance of Christ and enjoy a permanent, unbroken relationship with God. Hebrews 9:15 declares, “For this reason Christ is the mediator of a new covenant, that those who are called may receive the promised eternal inheritance—now that He has died as a ransom to set them free from the sins committed under the first covenant.”

http://www.gotquestions.org/new-covenant.html


Someone made a list of all the New Covenant commandments which I find to be a very handy reference tool.

NEW TESTAMENT COMMANDMENTS
http://thechristianbbs.com/ubb/ultimatebb.php?ubb=get_topic;f=8;t=000888
 

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Posted by Carol Swenson (Member # 6929) on :
 
PART TWO

How do I make Jesus Lord of my life?

The key is understanding that Jesus is already Lord of your life. We do not make Jesus Lord. Jesus is Lord. What we are supposed to do is submit to His lordship. Another word for our response to Jesus’ Lordship is “submission.” To submit is to yield to the will and control of another, and, with reference to Christians, it is yielding to the will and control of Jesus Christ. This means that when Scripture commands believers to love one another (John 15:17), that is what is to be done. It means that when Scripture says we are not to commit adultery or steal (Exodus 20:14-15), these things are not to be done. It should be understood that submission, or obedience to the commands of God, is related to Christian growth and maturity, and is not related to becoming a Christian. A person becomes a Christian by faith alone in Christ apart from works (Ephesians 2:8-9).

We should realize that complete obedience cannot be accomplished simply by willing it to be done or in the strength of one’s inner being. It will not happen simply because we “decide” to do it. This is because even believers are prone to sinful conduct and thoughts apart from the work and power of the Holy Spirit. In order to be obedient, we must rely on the power provided by the indwelling Holy Spirit (John 14:16-17). This in itself is an act of obedience, for we are commanded in Ephesians 5:18 to be filled with the Spirit. This doesn’t mean that a believer gets more of the Spirit, but rather that the Spirit gets more of the believer—which is the whole idea of submission. Being filled with the Spirit is yielding to the Spirit’s control. Practically speaking, this happens as a believer responds positively to the leading of the Holy Spirit. By this is not meant feeling that one is being lead into full-time Christian ministry and obeying that feeling, although this may be included. Rather, it refers to the day-to-day decisions we make, such as responding kindly to someone who has mistreated us (Romans 12:17); being truthful in our communication with others (Ephesians 4:25); being honest in our business dealings (Ephesians 4:28); spending time in prayer and studying God’s Word as we are commanded (2 Timothy 2:15). These are a just a few examples of daily decisions that demonstrate submissiveness to Christ.

It is also important to note that even when we fail to obey, God has made a provision for that so that we can remain in fellowship with Him. First John 1:9 says, “If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just and will forgive us our sins and purify us from all unrighteousness.” Even this is part of submission and obedience—to confess our sins to God so that we can remain in fellowship with Him. It is important to note that when tough decisions arise, the first thing we should do is pray, asking the Lord to help us to make the right decision and/or be obedient to what we already know is right from the Word.

To sum up the idea of the Lordship of Christ, it does not consist of one act of obedience but rather is measured by the sum of our obedience, and it cannot be accomplished in our own strength or power, but by the power available to us by the indwelling Holy Spirit. We are strongest when we are relying on Him (2 Corinthians 12:10).

http://www.gotquestions.org/Jesus-Lord.html
 

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Posted by barrykind (Member # 35) on :
 
Is the Sabbath Commanded for Christians Today?

An examination of the gospels clearly shows Jesus Christ kept the seventh-day Sabbath. The Bible tells us He is our example (1 John 2:6). Knowledgeable people are aware that time has not been lost and that the seventh-day of the week today is the same seventh-day of the week Jesus kept. Since the Sabbath was given to man at Creation, Christ kept the very same seventh-day given at the time man was created. The book of Luke tells us, “And he came to Nazareth, where he had been brought up: and, as his custom was, he went into the synagogue on the sabbath day, and stood up for to read” (Luke 4:16). The account tells us that Jesus attended worship services on the Sabbath and participated in the reading. There are other examples in the gospels. See Luke 6:6. “And it came to pass also on another sabbath, that he entered into the synagogue and taught . . . .” Also, Luke 13:10. “And he was teaching in one of the synagogues on the sabbath.”

Jesus was carefully scrutinized by the religious leaders who were looking to find fault in what He did. He was accused of healing the sick on the Sabbath (Luke 6:6-11; 13:11-17, John 9:16), an act which the religious leaders thought was wrong. He was accused of Sabbath-breaking because His disciples ate a small amount of grain while walking through a field on the Sabbath day. In these cases Jesus showed how these accusations were unfounded and that as the “Lord of the Sabbath” (Mark 2:28) He knew how to properly observe the Sabbath. Jesus told these Jews what their real problem really was. “. . . Well hath Esaias prophesied of you hypocrites, as it is written, This people honoureth me with their lips, but their heart is far from me. Howbeit in vain do they worship me, teaching for doctrines the commandments of men. For laying aside the commandment of God, ye hold the tradition of men, as the washing of pots and cups: and many other such like things ye do. And he said unto them, Full well ye reject the commandment of God, that ye may keep your own tradition” (Mark 7:6-9).

The religious leaders in Jesus’ day added so many restrictions and rules that they made the Sabbath day a burden rather than the joy God intended it to be. Jesus Christ set the perfect example. He demonstrated that the Sabbath was a day of physical rest and spiritual rejuvenation, a day to good to others should the opportunity arise. Jesus came to magnify the Law of God and to make it honorable (Isa. 42:21). He said, “Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to [fill full]. For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled” (Matt. 5:17-18).

New Testament Examples of Sabbath-Keeping
Christ was not the only servant of God who kept the Sabbath. The Apostle Paul is a case in point. Church historians admit that not even the pagan elements which crept into the Christian church could erase the Law of God from the writings of the Apostle Paul. It is clear from Paul’s writings that he upheld the commandments and the Law of God. Various churches in Asia Minor, where Paul did most of his work, continued keeping the Sabbath as late as the fourth century. A number of texts in the book of Acts clearly demonstrate that Paul kept the Sabbath. Here is what we read in Acts, chapter thirteen: “But when they departed from Perga, they came to Antioch in Pisidia, and went into the synagogue on the sabbath day, and sat down” (v. 14). Paul was the apostle who supposedly repudiated the Law of God in favor of “Christian freedom and self-expression,” so what was he doing in the synagogue on the Sabbath day? To have attended the synagogue on the Sabbath while repudiating Sabbath-keeping would have generated endless confusion among the Christian brethren, as well as setting the wrong example. The fact is: The very act of attending the synagogue on the Sabbath is proof Paul kept the Sabbath. He did not keep Sunday-the first day of the week-as a day of worship. We find in Acts, chapter thirteen, that Paul preached in the synagogue on the Sabbath, and his sermon was so powerful that the Gentiles asked Paul to preach to them on the next Sabbath! And on that following Sabbath almost all of the city came to hear Paul preach! (v.44). Clearly, Paul kept the Sabbath and the Gentile converts kept the Sabbath too.

Notice Acts 17:2 for even more proof. “And Paul, as his manner was, went in unto them, and three sabbath days reasoned with them out of the scriptures,” (Acts 17:2). It was Paul’s custom to attend the synagogue on the Sabbath. We find the same thing in Acts, chapter eighteen. “After these things Paul departed from Athens, and came to Corinth. . . . And he reasoned in the synagogue every sabbath, and persuaded the Jews and the Greeks . . . and many of the Corinthians hearing believed, and were baptized” (Acts 18:1,4, 8). Here we see Gentile converts attending the synagogue on the Sabbath day, and as a result of Paul’s preaching were converted. What this points out is that New Testament Christians kept the Sabbath.

Paul emphasized in his letters that he had set the right example. “Be ye followers of me, even as I also am of Christ” (1 Cor. 11:1). “Brethren, be followers together of me, and mark them which walk so as ye have us for an ensample” (Ph’p. 3:17). “Those things, which ye have both learned, and received, and heard, and seen in me, do: and the God of peace shall be with you” (Ph’p. 4:9). “For ye, brethren, became followers of the churches of God which in Judaea are in Christ Jesus: for ye also have suffered like things of your own countrymen, even as they have of the Jews” (1 Thess. 2:14).

Some who oppose the Sabbath do so on the grounds that there is no New Testament command to keep the Sabbath. Is this a true statement? Take a look at Hebrews, chapter four. An examination of this chapter reveals that Paul is making a comparison between the rest that Israel received when the people entered the promised land and the rest Christians will receive when they enter the Kingdom of God. The word “rest,” in verses one through eight, is from the Greek word katapausis, which means “a place of resting down.” But when we come to verse nine, we have a change in Greek words. “Rest” in verse nine is from the Greek word sabbatismos, which means “keeping of a sabbath.” The verse should be translated, “There remaineth therefore a keeping of the sabbath to the people of God” (Heb. 4:9). There is a lesson in types and antitypes here. Man has been given a weekly cycle of seven days-six days of labor, followed by a Sabbath day of rest. The Sabbath is a type of the Millennium. Since the Kingdom of God will be established during the Millennium-the 1000 year period-as a time of rest from sin and evil, the weekly cycle is a type of man’s 6000 years of sin and rebellion against God. This is why Paul states, “There remaineth therefore a keeping of the Sabbath to the people of God” (Heb. 4:9). The Authorized Version is incorrect in translating this word as “rest.” The fact is: God’s Sabbath day should be kept today; it is a type of the purpose God is working out here below in His plan of salvation.

Sabbath Created by Christ
The Apostle John made it plain that Jesus Christ was the God of the Old Testament. Notice what John writes, “In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. The same was in the beginning with God. All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made. . . . “And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth” (John 1:1-3, 14). Of Christ, Paul wrote, “For by him were all things created, that are in heaven, and that are in earth, visible and invisible, whether they be thrones, or dominions, or principalities, or powers: all things were created by him, and for him” (Col. 1:16). Scripture clearly states that Jesus Christ was the Creator of this earth (Eph. 3:9, Heb. 1:10; 2:10) and the God of the Old Testament. As Jesus Christ of the New Testament, He was manifested in the flesh. “Moreover, brethren, I would not that ye should be ignorant, how that all our fathers were under the cloud, and all passed through the sea; And were all baptized unto Moses in the cloud and in the sea; And did all eat the same spiritual meat; And did all drink the same spiritual drink: for they drank of that spiritual Rock that followed them: and that Rock was Christ” (1 Cor. 10:1-4).

Christ created the Sabbath during the Creation week. “And on the seventh day God ended his work which he had made; and he rested on the seventh day from all his work which he had made. And God blessed the seventh day, and sanctified it: because that in it he had rested from all his work which God created and made” (Gen. 2:2-3). The Sabbath was created for the benefit of man. Jesus stated, “. . . The sabbath was made for man, and not man for the sabbath: Therefore the Son of man is Lord also of the sabbath” (Mark 2:27-28). The Sabbath that Jesus created was the seventh-day Sabbath-Saturday, the seventh day of the week. It is the only day that God has ever sanctified or set apart as a day of worship!

Christ Revealed the Sabbath to Israel
While the Sabbath was revealed to man at Creation, it was generally ignored. In the pre-Flood world only a few men were obedient to God. Enoch and Noah were examples of these, and were exceptions. After the Flood we find Abraham obeyed God. Of him God said, “. . . Abraham obeyed my voice, and kept my charge, my commandments, my statutes, and my laws” (Gen. 26:5). During their slavery in Egypt the children of Israel had lost all knowledge of the Sabbath. When Christ, as the God of the Old Testament, delivered them from Egypt He gave the following instruction to Moses:

Then said the Lord unto Moses, Behold, I will rain bread from heaven for you; and the people shall go out and gather a certain rate every day, that I may prove them, whether they will walk in my law, or no. And it shall come to pass, that on the sixth day they shall prepare that which they bring in; and it shall be twice as much as they gather daily. . . . And it came to pass, that on the sixth day they gathered twice as much bread, two omers for one man: and all the rulers of the congregation came and told Moses. And he said unto them, This is that which the Lord hath said, To morrow is the rest of the holy sabbath unto the Lord: bake that which ye will bake to day, and seethe that ye will seethe; and that which remaineth over lay up for you to be kept until the morning. . . . Six days ye shall gather it; but on the seventh day, which is the sabbath, in it there shall be none. . . . See, for that the Lord hath given you the sabbath, therefore he giveth you on the sixth day the bread of two days; abide ye every man in his place, let no man go out of his place on the seventh day. So the people rested on the seventh day (Ex. 16:4-5, 22-23, 26, 29-30).

This instruction also includes the need to recognize Friday as the preparation day for the Sabbath.

In Exodus, chapter twenty, the command to observe the Sabbath day is included in the Ten Commandments. It is the fourth commandment.

Remember the sabbath day, to keep it holy. Six days shalt thou labour, and do all thy work: But the seventh day is the sabbath of the Lord thy God: in it thou shalt not do any work, thou, nor thy son, nor thy daughter, thy manservant, nor thy maidservant, nor thy cattle, nor thy stranger that is within thy gates: For in six days the Lord made heaven and earth, the sea, and all that in them is, and rested the seventh day: wherefore the Lord blessed the sabbath day, and hallowed it (Ex. 20:8-11).

This command emphasizes the need to remember the Sabbath as a day of rest. It had been previously revealed to them by the miracle of the manna as we see recorded in Exodus, chapter sixteen.

There are many commands in the Old Testament regarding the weekly Sabbath. Let us note a few of them.

Six days thou shalt do thy work, and on the seventh day thou shalt rest: that thine ox and thine *** may rest, and the son of thy handmaid, and the stranger, may be refreshed (Ex. 23:12).

Six days thou shalt work, but on the seventh day thou shalt rest: in earing time and in harvest thou shalt rest (Ex. 34:21).

Six days shall work be done, but on the seventh day there shall be to you an holy day, a sabbath of rest to the Lord: whosoever doeth work therein shall be put to death (Ex. 35:2).

Ye shall fear every man his mother, and his father, and keep my sabbaths: I am the Lord your God. . . . Ye shall keep my sabbaths, and reverence my sanctuary: I am the Lord (Lev. 19:3, 30).

Six days shall work be done: but the seventh day is the sabbath of rest, an holy convocation; ye shall do no work therein: it is the sabbath of the Lord in all your dwellings (Lev. 23:3).

Ye shall keep my sabbaths, and reverence my sanctuary: I am the Lord (Lev. 26:2).

Keep the sabbath day to sanctify it, as the Lord thy God hath commanded thee. Six days thou shalt labour, and do all thy work: But the seventh day is the sabbath of the Lord thy God: in it thou shalt not do any work, thou, nor thy son, nor thy daughter, nor thy manservant, nor thy maidservant, nor thine ox, nor thine *** , nor any of thy cattle, nor thy stranger that is within thy gates; that thy manservant and thy maidservant may rest as well as thou (Deut. 5:12-14).

The following instructions regarding violations of the Sabbath day are plainly spelled out in the Scriptures.

And if the people of the land bring ware or any victuals on the sabbath day to sell, that we would not buy it of them on the sabbath, or on the holy day: and that we would leave the seventh year, and the exaction of every debt (Neh. 10:31).

In those days saw I in Judah some treading wine presses on the sabbath, and bringing in sheaves, and lading asses; as also wine, grapes, and figs, and all manner of burdens, which they brought into Jerusalem on the sabbath day: and I testified against them in the day wherein they sold victuals. There dwelt men of Tyre also therein, which brought fish, and all manner of ware, and sold on the sabbath unto the children of Judah, and in Jerusalem. Then I contended with the nobles of Judah, and said unto them, What evil thing is this that ye do, and profane the sabbath day? Did not your fathers thus, and did not our God bring all this evil upon us, and upon this city? yet ye bring more wrath upon Israel by profaning the sabbath. And it came to pass, that when the gates of Jerusalem began to be dark before the sabbath, I commanded that the gates should be shut, and charged that they should not be opened till after the sabbath: and some of my servants set I at the gates, that there should no burden be brought in on the sabbath day (Neh. 13:15-19).

Thus saith the Lord; Take heed to yourselves, and bear no burden on the sabbath day, nor bring it in by the gates of Jerusalem; Neither carry forth a burden out of your houses on the sabbath day, neither do ye any work, but hallow ye the sabbath day, as I commanded your fathers (Jer. 17:2-22).

The Law of God-Its Importance
The Sabbath is one of the Ten Commandments. As such it is an important part of the Law of God. What do the Scriptures say about the Law of God?

The works of his hands are verity and judgment; all his commandments are sure. They stand fast for ever and ever, and are done in truth and uprightness. . . . The fear of the Lord is the beginning of wisdom: a good understanding have all they that do his commandments (Ps. 111:7-8, 10).

Thy word is true from the beginning: and every one of thy righteous judgments endureth for ever (Ps. 119:160).

Wherefore the law is holy, and the commandment holy, and just, and good. . . . For we know that the law is spiritual: but I am carnal, sold under sin (Rom. 7:12, 14).

The law of the Lord is perfect, converting the soul: the testimony of the Lord is sure, making wise the simple. The statutes of the Lord are right, rejoicing the heart: the commandment of the Lord is pure, enlightening the eyes. The fear of the Lord is clean, enduring for ever: the judgments of the Lord are true and righteous altogether. More to be desired are they than gold, yea, than much fine gold: sweeter also than honey and the honeycomb. Moreover by them is thy servant warned: and in keeping of them there is great reward (Ps. 19:7-11).

Jesus Christ was the God who gave this law. “Jesus Christ the same yesterday, and to day, and for ever” (Heb. 13:8). He does not change and His law does not change. What does He say about His nature and what is the instruction for those who refuse to obey the Law of God? “And I will come near to you to judgment; and I will be a swift witness against the sorcerers, and against the adulterers, and against false swearers, and against those that oppress the hireling in his wages, the widow, and the fatherless, and that turn aside the stranger from his right, and fear not me, saith the Lord of hosts. For I am the Lord, I change not; therefore ye sons of Jacob are not consumed” (Mal. 3:5-6). While He does not consume the sons of Jacob, there is much evil among them that must eventually be repented of.

How Important Is the Sabbath?
There are a number of texts in the Bible that show the importance of Sabbath-keeping. Notice the following:

Blessed is the man that doeth this, and the son of man that layeth hold on it; that keepeth the sabbath from polluting it, and keepeth his hand from doing any evil. Neither let the son of the stranger, that hath joined himself to the Lord, speak, saying, The Lord hath utterly separated me from his people: neither let the eunuch say, Behold, I am a dry tree. For thus saith the Lord unto the eunuchs that keep my sabbaths, and choose the things that please me, and take hold of my covenant; Even unto them will I give in mine house and within my walls a place and a name better than of sons and of daughters: I will give them an everlasting name, that shall not be cut off. Also the sons of the stranger, that join themselves to the Lord, to serve him, and to love the name of the Lord, to be his servants, every one that keepeth the sabbath from polluting it, and taketh hold of my covenant; Even them will I bring to my holy mountain, and make them joyful in my house of prayer: their burnt offerings and their sacrifices shall be accepted upon mine altar; for mine house shall be called an house of prayer for all people (Isa. 56:2-7).

If thou turn away thy foot from the sabbath, from doing thy pleasure on my holy day; and call the sabbath a delight, the holy of the Lord, honourable; and shalt honour him, not doing thine own ways, nor finding thine own pleasure, nor speaking thine own words: Then shalt thou delight thyself in the Lord; and I will cause thee to ride upon the high places of the earth, and feed thee with the heritage of Jacob thy father: for the mouth of the Lord hath spoken it (Isa. 58:13-14).

And it shall come to pass, that from one new moon to another, and from one sabbath to another, shall all flesh come to worship before me, saith the Lord. And they shall go forth, and look upon the carcases of the men that have transgressed against me: for their worm shall not die, neither shall their fire be quenched; and they shall be an abhorring unto all flesh (Isa. 66:23-24).

The Sabbath-an Identifying Sign
The true people of God are identified by the seventh-day Sabbath. Notice what the Bible says.

Speak thou also unto the children of Israel, saying, Verily my sabbaths ye shall keep: for it is a sign between me and you throughout your generations; that ye may know that I am the Lord that doth sanctify you. Ye shall keep the sabbath therefore; for it is holy unto you: every one that defileth it shall surely be put to death: for whosoever doeth any work therein, that soul shall be cut off from among his people. Six days may work be done; but in the seventh is the sabbath of rest, holy to the Lord: whosoever doeth any work in the sabbath day, he shall surely be put to death. Wherefore the children of Israel shall keep the sabbath, to observe the sabbath throughout their generations, for a perpetual covenant. It is a sign between me and the children of Israel for ever: for in six days the Lord made heaven and earth, and on the seventh day he rested, and was refreshed (Ex. 31:13-17).

What we see in the above text is that the Sabbath was not only given as an identifying sign but as a perpetual covenant for all generations. The reason the Jewish people have not been lost from sight is due to their fidelity in observing the seventh-day Sabbath. The idea, however, that the Sabbath was given to the Jews, while Sunday is the “Lord’s Day” for the Gentiles is absolutely false. The only day ever given as a day of worship in both the Old and New Testaments is the seventh-day Sabbath. Christians, whether Israelites or Gentiles, are commanded to keep the seventh-day Sabbath. This is readily seen by what took place in the New Testament church, as recorded in the book of Acts.

One of the main reasons the ten tribes of Israel were driven from their land and lost from sight in history was because of Sabbath-breaking. The Bible tells us:

Wherefore I caused them to go forth out of the land of Egypt, and brought them into the wilderness. And I gave them my statutes, and shewed them my judgments, which if a man do, he shall even live in them. Moreover also I gave them my sabbaths, to be a sign between me and them, that they might know that I am the Lord that sanctify them. . . . I am the Lord your God; walk in my statutes, and keep my judgments, and do them; And hallow my sabbaths; and they shall be a sign between me and you, that ye may know that I am the Lord your God. Notwithstanding the children rebelled against me: they walked not in my statutes, neither kept my judgments to do them, which if a man do, he shall even live in them; they polluted my sabbaths: then I said, I would pour out my fury upon them, to accomplish my anger against them in the wilderness. . . . I lifted up mine hand unto them also in the wilderness, that I would scatter them among the heathen, and disperse them through the countries (Ezek. 20:10-12, 19-21, 23).

Sabbath-breaking was one of the national sins of ancient Israel, just like it is in our land today. Jesus Christ, the God of the Old Testament, is the same yesterday, today, and forever. His law does not change. We will be judged as a nation and as a people for refusing to take seriously the Bible command to keep the Sabbath.

Is the “Lord’s Day” Sunday?
Catholic scholars do not hesitate to tell us that it was church authority and not the Bible that established Sunday as a day of worship. Sunday, as we know, is the first day of the week, not the seventh. Cardinal Gibbons, in 1893, stated that the Church changed the day of worship from Saturday, the seventh-day of the week, to Sunday, the first-day of the week. When he was asked if Christ had changed the day of worship to Sunday, the Cardinal replied “no.” The Catholic view was clearly stated by T. Enright, a Catholic priest, who said that Protestants have no right to observe Sunday since it was the Catholic Church alone who changed the day of rest from Saturday to Sunday. He added that everyone knows Sunday is the first-day of the week, while Saturday is the seventh-day, the day that was consecrated as a day of rest. Furthermore, he said Sunday is not the Sabbath of the Bible, and when Protestants observe Sunday they acknowledge the power of the Catholic Church.

Even leading Protestant clergyman do not hesitate to admit that Sunday, as a day of worship, is not authorized by the Bible. Dr. Edward T. Hiscox, a Baptist, said there was a Biblical command to keep the Sabbath, not Sunday, and that the day of worship was transferred from the seventh-day of the week to the first. When he was asked where there was a record that showed this transfer, he said it was not in the New Testament. Dr. R.W. Dale, a British theologian and Congregationalist, said that while the Sabbath was founded on a specific, divine command, we can plead no such command for the obligation to observe Sunday.

An examination of the New Testament demonstrates that every reference to the first day of the week shows it to be a work day. For example, Matthew 28:1, Mark 16:2, Luke 24:1, and John 20:1 all show Sunday morning to be the time when the women came to the tomb of Jesus in order to prepare him for burial. Sunday morning was a time of work, not a time of worship. John 20:19 shows us that the disciples were hiding for fear of the Jews; they were not gathered for worship. In Acts 20:7-8 the disciples gathered to break bread and Paul continued his speech until midnight. An examination of the text reveals that the meeting was on Saturday night. This was on the first day of the week since Biblical days end at sundown. Paul had been there for a Sabbath meeting and continued preaching until Saturday at midnight thus making the meeting extend into the first day of the week. Notice what happened the next morning. Paul began walking from Troas to Assos, a distance of nineteen and one-half miles (vv. 11, 13-14). This first day of the week was a workday, not a day for worship. In 1 Corinthians 16:1-3 each saint is admonished to “lay by him in store” on the first day of the week. Notice the word “day” is not found in the original Greek. The text merely states, “Upon the first of the week.” The call was for a collection for the needy saints in Jerusalem (v. 3). Paul and his company wished to take this offering to Jerusalem. Acts 11:29-30 illustrates what was often done in times of need. The saints needed food, not money from a Sunday collection plate. To lay in store meant the saints were to store up their contributions in their own homes until Paul could gather the goods to take with him. Why on the first of the week? Because Paul intended to arrive in Corinth early in the week and to leave before the following weekend. Paul did not want to delay his journey to Jerusalem once he arrived in Corinth. This text, along with those above, clearly show that Sunday, the first day of the week, was a workday.

What is the Lord’s Day if it is not Sunday? Notice what we read in the gospel of Mark. “And he said unto them, The sabbath was made for man, and not man for the sabbath: Therefore the Son of man is Lord also of the sabbath” (Mark 2:27-28).

It is not without reason that Sabbath-keepers observe the weekly Sabbath from Friday night at sundown until Saturday night at sundown. This is the day for observing the only time period ever commanded in the Bible as a day of worship
 

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Posted by Carol Swenson (Member # 6929) on :
 

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Since the Sabbath was given to man at Creation, Christ kept the very same seventh-day given at the time man was created.

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They do not know whether they are saved by grace plus works, or by grace unto good works. Ephesians 2:8 to 10. The great majority of Christians frustrate the grace of God and prevent the "grace" gospel.

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Repentance..is that works
Obeying HIS commanments...is that works
love YHWH
love thy neighbor

James
14What doth it profit, my brethren, though a man say he hath faith, and have not works? can faith save him?

15If a brother or sister be naked, and destitute of daily food,

16And one of you say unto them, Depart in peace, be ye warmed and filled; notwithstanding ye give them not those things which are needful to the body; what doth it profit?

17Even so faith, if it hath not works, is dead, being alone.

18Yea, a man may say, Thou hast faith, and I have works: shew me thy faith without thy works, and I will shew thee my faith by my works.

19Thou believest that there is one God; thou doest well: the devils also believe, and tremble.

20But wilt thou know, O vain man, that faith without works is dead?

21Was not Abraham our father justified by works, when he had offered Isaac his son upon the altar?

22Seest thou how faith wrought with his works, and by works was faith made perfect?

23And the scripture was fulfilled which saith, Abraham believed God, and it was imputed unto him for righteousness: and he was called the Friend of God.

24Ye see then how that by works a man is justified, and not by faith only.

25Likewise also was not Rahab the harlot justified by works, when she had received the messengers, and had sent them out another way?

26For as the body without the spirit is dead, so faith without works is dead also.

works did not gain the "favour" of Yahweh..no your saved by grace...But what then??


26For as the body without the spirit is dead, so faith without works is dead also.
 

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Posted by WildB (Member # 2917) on :
 
Barry your out of your league.

REPENTANCE AND GRACE
by Cornelius R. Stam

When the sinner is convicted by the Holy Spirit of the seriousness of sin and of judgment to come, and cries to the Lord to save him, he has, of course, repented, or changed his mind, as the Greek word signifies. Many of God's servants, however, considering only the fact that sinners need such a change of mind, conclude that the way to produce the greatest results in their ministry is to stress repentance.

Such should take note of the response to the three great calls to repentance by which the dispensation of the Law was brought to a close: John the Baptist called Israel to repentance but was beheaded as a result (Matt.3:1-12; 14:3-10). The Lord Jesus took up the cry where John had left off (4:17), but was crucified for it. After the resurrection He sent His disciples to preach "repentance and remission of sin...in His name" (Luke 24:47) but Jerusalem refused to repent and it was not long before blood again flowed, as Stephen was stoned to death and a great persecution followed (Acts 8:3).

The guilt of Israel's impenitence increased too, as the call to repentance was intensified, for while John's murder was permitted by the people, Christ's was demanded by them, and Stephen's was actually committed by them. Thus the so-called "Great Commission" was bogged down at the very start, for if Jerusalem and the covenant people refused to repent, what hope was there that the "nations" (Luke 24:47) would do so?

"But where sin abounded, GRACE did much more abound: That as sin hath reigned unto death, even so might GRACE reign through righteousness unto eternal life by Jesus Christ our Lord" (Rom.5:20,21).

After calls to repentance had failed, the ascended Lord stooped down to save Saul, the chief of sinners, on the road to Damascus, in anything but a repentant mood. Not by threatening or dealing with him in judgment, but by speaking to him in the tenderest tones He showed him the glory of His grace. This "trophy of grace" was then sent forth to proclaim "the gospel of grace", and the merits of his crucified, glorified Lord.

This is why repentance was emphasized, indeed was the theme of God's message, from John until Paul, while grace, proclaimed through the cross and received by faith, gradually displaced it as the theme of God's message for "this present evil age" (Acts 20:24).
 

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Posted by Carol Swenson (Member # 6929) on :
 

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After calls to repentance had failed, the ascended Lord stooped down to save Saul, the chief of sinners, on the road to Damascus, in anything but a repentant mood. Not by threatening or dealing with him in judgment, but by speaking to him in the tenderest tones He showed him the glory of His grace.

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After calls to repentance had failed, the ascended Lord stooped down to save Saul, the chief of sinners, on the road to Damascus, in anything but a repentant mood. Not by threatening or dealing with him in judgment, but by speaking to him in the tenderest tones He showed him the glory of His grace. This "trophy of grace" was then sent forth to proclaim "the gospel of grace", and the merits of his crucified, glorified Lord.

This is why repentance was emphasized, indeed was the theme of God's message, from John until Paul, while grace, proclaimed through the cross and received by faith, gradually displaced it as the theme of God's message for "this present evil age" (Acts 20:24).

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Originally posted by barrykind:
wildbill Quoting C. Stam states:

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After calls to repentance had failed, the ascended Lord stooped down to save Saul, the chief of sinners, on the road to Damascus, in anything but a repentant mood. Not by threatening or dealing with him in judgment, but by speaking to him in the tenderest tones He showed him the glory of His grace. This "trophy of grace" was then sent forth to proclaim "the gospel of grace", and the merits of his crucified, glorified Lord.

This is why repentance was emphasized, indeed was the theme of God's message, from John until Paul, while grace, proclaimed through the cross and received by faith, gradually displaced it as the theme of God's message for "this present evil age" (Acts 20:24).

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Your agreeing with this man that thier is no longer a call to repent??

My goodness man have you LOST your "spiritual mind??? Tell me in not understanding something here huh?

2 Peter 3:9
The Lord is not slack concerning his promise, as some men count slackness; but is longsuffering to us-ward, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance.


2 Cor 7: 10For godly sorrow worketh repentance to salvation not to be repented of: but the sorrow of the world worketh death.


Romans 2:4
Or despisest thou the riches of his goodness and forbearance and longsuffering; not knowing that the goodness of God leadeth thee to repentance?

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Romans, Chapter 10
001: Brethren, my heart's desire and prayer to God for Israel is, that they might be saved.
002: For I bear them record that they have a zeal of God, but not according to knowledge.
003: For they being ignorant of God's righteousness, and going about to establish their own righteousness, have not submitted themselves unto the righteousness of God.

004: For Christ is the end of the law for righteousness to every one that believeth.
005: For Moses describeth the righteousness which is of the law, That the man which doeth those things shall live by them.
006: But the righteousness which is of faith speaketh on this wise, Say not in thine heart, Who shall ascend into heaven? (that is, to bring Christ down from above:)
007: Or, Who shall descend into the deep? (that is, to bring up Christ again from the dead.)
008: But what saith it? The word is nigh thee, even in thy mouth, and in thy heart: that is, the word of faith, which we preach;

009: That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved.

010: For with the heart man believeth unto righteousness; and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation.
011: For the scripture saith, Whosoever believeth on him shall not be ashamed.
 

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Posted by barrykind (Member # 35) on :
 
Brother Bill:

that article by Stam; (Which C.R. Stam does have a lot of good insight in some of the things i have read that he wrote:)

Is he stating that in the Pauline Dispensation folks dont have to repent, because YHWH decided to blind Paul, and now "repentance" does not have to be engauged to be saved???

Is that what Stam is saying and do you agree with that teaching????
 

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Posted by Carol Swenson (Member # 6929) on :
 
Not the Pauline Dispensation, but the Dispensation of Grace

When studying any Bible passage, it is always very important to understand the context of the passage. If we do not understand the context of a passage, we will often misunderstand the passage itself. One aspect of the context which is often overlooked is the dispensation. God has provided His Word in the Bible in several different dispensations. Every Bible passage is written in the context of one dispensation or another. Therefore, proper understanding of the different dispensations is needed in order to understand the context of each Bible passage. After becoming aware of this need, many Bible students will then ask about how they can determine which dispensation any particular Bible passage is under, so that they can more fully comprehend the context of the passage. These questions are the focus of several of the articles on this web site, which cover this subject in detail, including The Basics of Understanding the Bible, Israel's Kingdom Gospel and Our Grace Gospel, and The Seven Churches of Revelation. In addition to these articles, it may be helpful to have a concise list of key guidelines for dispensational study of the Bible. Therefore, some general guidelines for determining the dispensation of almost any Bible passage have been listed below along with a diagram which illustrates the timeline of the dispensations. The discussion following each of the guidelines has been kept brief intentionally, in order to provide a concise listing. For further detail, please refer to the articles listed above.




1. The grace dispensation began in about 37 AD when God called Paul and saved him in Acts 9.

From the time God gave Moses the law in Exodus to the calling of Paul in Acts 9, the context of the scriptures had been the dispensation of the law. The book of Acts chronicles the transition from one dispensation to another. With the calling of Paul, God began a new dispensation, the dispensation of grace, which still continues today. Paul wrote in 1 Timothy 1:15-16, "... Christ Jesus came into the world to save sinners; of whom I am chief. Howbeit for this cause I obtained mercy, that in me first Jesus Christ might shew forth all longsuffering, for a pattern to them which should hereafter believe on him to life everlasting." Thus we see that Paul was the "first" in this dispensation of grace and a "pattern" for us who have believed the gospel of grace since then.

2. The dispensation of the law was put on hold when Jerusalem and the temple were destroyed in 70 AD.

The destruction of the temple made it totally impossible for Jews to keep the law of Moses. Therefore the transition from law to the grace dispensation was completed in 70 AD. As shown in the diagram, the dispensation of the law will resume when the seven-year tribulation begins, after the rapture of the church. The dispensation of the law will have its fulfillment in the 1000 year kingdom dispensation.


3. During the transition period from 37-70 AD God revealed a multitude of mysteries to Paul to give to the church of the grace dispensation which was and still is mainly Gentile. God did not reveal the multitude of mysteries to Paul all at once, but gradually over many years.

In 2 Corinthians 12:7, Paul wrote, "And lest I should be exalted above measure through the abundance of the revelations, there was given to me a thorn in the flesh ...." Just a few verses earlier, Paul had written in 2 Corinthians 12:1, "It is not expedient for me doubtless to glory. I will come to visions and revelations of the Lord." In these two verses, Paul lets us know that he has already received from the Lord many revelations of many mysteries (or as some would prefer to say it: "many revelations of many aspects of the mystery"). He is also letting us know that he will receive many revelations of many mysteries in the future. These words in 2 Corinthians were written in about 57 AD, while Paul was in Macedonia on his third journey. This was while the events recorded in Acts 20:4-5 were taking place. Therefore we see that Jesus Christ was revealing mysteries to Paul throughout the 37-70 AD transition period from Paul's calling some 20 years earlier in Acts 9 and continuing for the next few years.

Naturally, as Paul was given more and more knowledge of God and His will for this grace dispensation, the corresponding doctrines were in turn revealed in Paul's letters. Also some of the deeper mysteries are not revealed until the latter part of Paul's ministry, not showing up until the books of Ephesians, Philippians, and Colossians around 61-63 AD. But the earlier letters of Paul are still teaching and instructions for the grace dispensation as well.


4. The ministry of the twelve apostles of the circumcision was limited to the people of Israel.

The only exception was Peter's trip to the house of Cornelius. The proselytes were Gentiles who had converted to the Jews' religion including circumcision and keeping the law of Moses. They were treated no differently from the Jews, as was the case with Nicolas in Acts 6:5. The Samaritans were basically Israelites whose bloodlines had been blended with some Gentiles. The Hellenists (referred to in the KJV as "Grecians") were Jews that had taken on the Greek culture and language. Still, the proselytes, Samaritans, and Hellenists were all under the dispensation of the law. So those at the house of Cornelius are the only non-proselyte Gentiles to which any of the twelve ever ministered their gospel of the kingdom. Even in that case, the gospel of the kingdom was edited for Gentile consumption, since no requirement of circumcision or keeping the law of Moses was included. Many years later, Peter wrote two letters to Jews who had been scattered out of Israel during the transition period. But these were not the Jews that had received the grace teaching of Paul. These were Jews who had been saved under the kingdom gospel under the teaching of the twelve.


5. Paul's grace ministry was to the Gentiles and the Jews living among them, outside of the land of Israel.

The Jews in Israel would not be receptive to Paul's teaching, and God knew this. In Acts 22, Paul recounts to the Jews in Jerusalem, his experience when he was in Jerusalem many years earlier in Acts 9. Acts 22:17-21 says, "And it came to pass, that, when I was come again to Jerusalem, even while I prayed in the temple, I was in a trance; And saw him (Jesus) saying unto me, Make haste, and get thee quickly out of Jerusalem: for they will not receive thy testimony concerning me. And I said, Lord, they know that I imprisoned and beat in every synagogue them that believed on thee: And when the blood of thy martyr Stephen was shed, I also was standing by, and consenting unto his death, and kept the raiment of them that slew him. And he said unto me, Depart: for I will send thee far hence unto the Gentiles." Even after nearly 20 years, the Jews in the land of Israel still would not accept Paul's message which included the Gentiles in this way. The next verse says, "And they gave him audience unto this word, and then lifted up their voices, and said, Away with such a fellow from the earth: for it is not fit that he should live ..." (Acts 22:22).


6. Along with the great wealth of knowledge found in the book of Genesis, we also find the history of the dispensations which came before the law of Moses.

These dispensations are (as shown in the diagram above) innocence (Genesis 1-3), conscience (Genesis 3-8), human government (Genesis 9-11), and promise (Genesis 12-50).

7. Exodus-Malachi, Matthew-John, and Hebrews-Revelation are written to the nation of Israel for the dispensation of the law which will have its fulfillment in the kingdom.

Galatians 2:7-9 says, "... when they (the other apostles) saw that the gospel of the uncircumcision was committed unto me (Paul), as the gospel of the circumcision was unto Peter; (For he that wrought effectually in Peter to the apostleship of the circumcision, the same was mighty in me toward the Gentiles:) And when James, Cephas, and John, who seemed to be pillars, perceived the grace that was given unto me, they gave to me and Barnabas the right hands of fellowship; that we should go unto the heathen (Gentiles), and they unto the circumcision (Israel)."


8. Romans-Philemon are Paul’s thirteen letters to the Gentiles for this present dispensation of grace.

Paul wrote in Romans 11:13, "For I speak to you Gentiles, inasmuch as I am the apostle of the Gentiles, I magnify mine office ...." Paul is our apostle. Thus he says in 2 Timothy 1:13 "Hold fast the form of sound words, which thou hast heard of me, in faith and love which is in Christ Jesus." Also he says in Philippians 3:17, "Brethren, be followers together of me, and mark them which walk so as ye have us for an ensample."


9. Acts is the book of transition between the law and grace dispensations.

Therefore, special care must be taken when studying the book of Acts to recognize the dispensational context of each passage. In general, if Peter is speaking to Jews, it is for the kingdom dispensation, but if Paul is speaking to Gentiles, it is for the grace dispensation.

Certainly this is not an exhaustive list of all points of consideration, but these are the essential points that can help a student positively determine the dispensation of almost any Bible passage.

http://www.matthewmcgee.org/dispguid.html

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Saul of Tarsus had persecuted Christians and had them murdered, but then became a servant of Jesus Christ himself, the great apostle Paul (Acts 9: 12). What caused this change in Saul's life? Saul repented (Acts 9: 3-18, repentance is necessarily inferred, Acts 2: 38). The Philippian jailer who was a pagan had charge of Paul and Silas in prison. Later he is found washing their stripes and feeding them in his house (Acts 16: 33, 34). Repentance drastically changed his thinking regarding himself, Paul, and Silas (Acts 16: 30 ff.).

Repentance will also result in consequential changes today in a person's life. Repentance will cause the person who has a foul mouth to use pure speech; the thief to cease his sealing, and the drunkard to forsake the bottle (Eph. 4: 28; Eph. 4: 28; Prov. 23: 29 ff.). Repentance also involves restitution, as is seen in the case of Zacchaeus (Lk. 19: 8-10). Money that is stolen will not be retained but returned, when repentance is present. The adulterer will return the wife of another man or will cease his adultery with a women to whom he has no scriptural right (Matt. 19: 9). There will be no "if I have sinned" or "I sinned but…," when repentance is truly experienced. Repentance pervades every fiber of our being and soul and can truly transform us into a mindset that receives and loves the word of God and will obey it at all costs (I Jn. 5: 3, 2: 3 ff.).
 

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Posted by barrykind (Member # 35) on :
 
im not sure your point sister?
 

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