This is topic JESUS THE MESSIAH WOULD BE GOD HIMSELF in forum Bible Topics & Study at Christian Message Boards.


To visit this topic, use this URL:
https://thechristianbbs.com/cgi-bin/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic;f=1;t=006499

---

Posted by Found in Him (Member # 7596) on :
 
JESUS THE MESSIAH WOULD BE GOD HIMSELF

"I, even I, am the LORD, and apart from me there is no savior.” (Isaiah 43:11)

Not only this verse, but the entire Old Testament makes it very clear that God alone is the One who saves us from the judgment of sin. He alone is our Savior.


“But you, Bethlehem Ephrathah, though you are little among the thousands of Judah, Yet out of you shall come forth to Me the One to be Ruler in Israel, whose goings forth are from of old, from everlasting.” (Micah 5:2)

Here we learn Jesus is an eternal Being.


Behold, the days are coming," says the LORD, That I will raise to David a Branch of righteousness; A King shall reign and prosper, And execute judgment and righteousness in the earth. In His days Judah will be saved, And Israel will dwell safely; Now this is His name by which He will be called: THE LORD OUR RIGHTEOUSNESS” (Jeremiah 23:5-6)

And here the Jesus is given an exalted title -- “The Lord Our Righteousness” -- and He executes judgment and righteousness in the earth. These are two things only God can do. “Surely He is God who judges in the earth." (Psalm 58:11)


"The Lord said to my Lord, "Sit at My right hand, till I make Your enemies Your footstool." (Psalm 110:1)

“Sit at my right hand” is a term that speaks of equality. But God has said there is no one like Him or beside Him – “there is no other God besides Me, A just God and a Savior; there is none besides Me.” (Isaiah 45:21) So who is this sitting at His right hand? It is Jesus Christ, God the Son as we’ll discover in this next verse.


Who has ascended into heaven, or descended? Who has gathered the wind in His fists? Who has bound the waters in a garment? Who has established all the ends of the earth? What is His name, and what is His Son's name, if you know? (Proverb 30:40)

Here in the middle of the Old Testament we learn that God has a Son.


"I will return again to My place till they acknowledge their offense. Then they will seek My face. In their affliction they will earnestly seek Me." ( Hosea 5:15)

God’s place is heaven (“Heaven is His throne” the Psalm says). To return to His place He must have first left it.

"Behold, I send My messenger, and he will prepare the way before Me. And the Lord, whom you seek, will suddenly come to His temple, Even the Messenger of the covenant, In whom you delight. Behold, He is coming," Says the LORD of hosts.” (Malachi 3:1)

This verse identifies the Messenger as “the Lord” who visits “His” temple. The Old Testament is certainly clear that only God is to be worshiped.

"Listen to Me, O Jacob, and Israel, My called: I am He, I am the First, I am also the Last. Indeed My hand has laid the foundation of the earth, and My right hand has stretched out the heavens. When I call to them, They stand up together.

Come near to Me, hear this: I have not spoken in secret from the beginning; From the time that it was, I was there. And now the Lord GOD and His Spirit Have sent Me.

Thus says the LORD, your Redeemer, The Holy One of Israel: "I am the LORD your God, Who teaches you to profit, Who leads you by the way you should go.” (Isaiah 48:12,16-17)

These verses are an absolute goldmine of information! Look at what they tell us:

1) The first verse clearly identifies the speaker as God
2) He tells us that God and the Holy Spirit have sent Him (Here is the Trinity in the Old Testament)
3) He tells us that He, God, is the Redeemer and the Holy One of Israel

So from these passages we can conclude that JESUS Messiah is God, the Redeemer, and further more He is a member the Trinity.
 

---

Posted by Betty Louise (Member # 7175) on :
 
Col 2:9 For in him dwelleth all the fulness of the Godhead bodily.

Good post FoundInHim.
betty
 

---

Posted by oneinchrist (Member # 6532) on :
 
........So long as none of you go as far to say that Jesus exalted Himself to the right hand of God the Father.

With love in Christ, Daniel
 

---

Posted by Betty Louise (Member # 7175) on :
 
Jesus is part of the Godhead. For Him to exalt Himself, would be like one of your arms demanding to be superior to the rest of your body. In God there is no sin. Jesus cannot steal. God Himself said no one can come to the Father except through Jesus Christ. God and Jesus are not at war against each other they are one in spirit and in truth.
betty
 

---

Posted by oneinchrist (Member # 6532) on :
 
Betty,
My concern is that there is balance in the claim that "Jesus is God". Yes, Jesus is God in the sense of His deity(divinity, eternal Sonship), but not in the sense that He gave Himself the honor of the Melchizidek priesthood and in the sense that He gave Himself the highest exalted position that exists.....the Fathers right Hand

I would like to probe into this discussion of "authority" a little deeper. In the claim that there is no hierarchy of authority in heaven, are we also to assume that the Holy Ghost(3rd person of the trinity)is not subject to Jesus? In other words, Jesus never commands Him to do anything.
Oh, ya, another question.........When Jesus returns does He return at a time that He chooses?, or does He return at the time the Father appoints?.

With love in Christ, Daniel
 

---

Posted by Found in Him (Member # 7596) on :
 
oneinchrist...

1. Who Exalted Christ?
Philippians 2
9 Wherefore God also hath highly exalted him, and given him a name which is above every name:

10 That at the name of Jesus every knee should bow, of things in heaven, and things in earth, and things under the earth;

11 And that every tongue should confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father.

2. Who has all Authority until the end?
Matt 28:18
And Jesus came and spake unto them, saying, All power is given unto me in heaven and in earth.

3. Who is The Bridegroom? The Father always sent the Son for His bride when the chamber or "home" was complete.
Matt 24
36 But of that day and hour knoweth no man, no, not the angels of heaven, but my Father only. 37 But as the days of Noe were, so shall also the coming of the Son of man be.

GOD is ONE GOD.
 

---

Posted by oneinchrist (Member # 6532) on :
 
Found in Him,
I agree that God is One.

Do you agree that there is a hierarchy of authority in the persons of the Godhead? yes or no.

With love in Christ, Daniel
 

---

Posted by Found in Him (Member # 7596) on :
 
We know what the bible says about authority, power and the dominion of the kingdom. Personally I feel how God delegates this authority within The Godhead is really none of our business other than what is written. That sounds rude I know. I am a rather bold personality at times. (I do realize this)

What I do argue on this board is any statement that one member is less than the other. I feel that steals from God. Not you oneinchrist, but anyone that does it.
 

---

Posted by oneinchrist (Member # 6532) on :
 
Hi Found in Him,
My friend in the Lord, thank you for your sincere response, even though you did not answer with a yes or no. I agree that it is Gods business how He is going to delegate. Scripture does give us some insight into that ......for ex: Jesus is given authority to forgive sin.

I also do question the need for us to fully understand the hierarchy of authority in the Godhead. Why would it be important? The only thing that I can think of off hand is that I believe that it could be relevant when it comes to "who we give credit to, and for what we give them credit for......for ex: we can give thanks to God(the Father) for sacrificing His Son and we can give thanks to Jesus for doing the will of the Father. We can thank Jesus for imparting unto us the Holy Ghost and we can thank the Father for giving the promise of the Holy Ghost to Jesus after His exaltation.


With love in Christ, Daniel
 

---

Posted by Found in Him (Member # 7596) on :
 
Well, I won't answer yes or no as I believe that they are "One God"

I agree why should authority within The Godhead be of importance? He is God after all, right?


I am a Mother, Grandma, Sister, and yet I am a Daughter, a child, a friend, a tax payer (had to slide that one in there grrr),. Which one has more authority? and does it really matter? These may not be a very good example, but God is all in all~ One God. I guess that was my point.
 

---

Posted by oneinchrist (Member # 6532) on :
 
Hi Found in Him,
I see what you are saying ........you believe that if you were to concede to a hierarchy of authority in heaven that it can no longer be considered one God. In other words, you would think that there would have to be a flaw in the nature of God if the three persons did not all have the same authority. I perceive that you do understand(according to the scriptures) that Jesus was GIVEN His authority. On that note, I do believe it would be safe to assume that Jesus was not given authority to "cancel out" or "take the place of" or to "usurp" the authority of the Father.

Do you also believe that there is no God ordained hierarchy of authority for the family? between the husband and wife, children and thier parents? How this authority is supposed to be carried out-----aside.

With love in Christ, Daniel
 

---

Posted by Keeper (Member # 7675) on :
 
"HEAD" primarily means "authority" when used in the contest of human relationships. But in the Greek word for "HEAD" can also mean "Source" or "orgin" in some cases.

Submission does not indicate inferiority, but subordination. Jesus and God are equally devine, and men and women (husbands and wives) are equal beings. Both have different roles.

I was listening to Point of View a couple of days ago and the author of a couple of books called "For Her Only" and "For Him Only" was written by her following a hard study of both sexes and it is about what makes them tick. Sounds like what this is all about. Sounds like not only do we have a certain role but are wired for it as well.
 

---

Posted by Found in Him (Member # 7596) on :
 
I understand that Jesus is giving this kingdom right back to the Godhead, so that GOD might be "all in all" One God See, I just don't think our God will be happy until they bless each other over and over again. He's just like that!

Well, I believe that a husband and wife are "one" as the bible states (there is that lil word again) I believe that the husband (get this ) has a greater responsibility to the union and family before God. Christ laid down His life for His Bride (The Church). God blesses the institution of marriage calling them "one" Who is greater? Who has more authority? I think rather, who has the greater responsibility of the union and family before God.
 

---

Posted by Eden (Member # 5728) on :
 
hello, Found in Him, I read your Topic and the verses in it are all from the Old Testament (OT), and the OT refers to a time when the Son of God was still in heaven, BEFORE His incarnation. Therefore in all those verses from the OT, Jesus, as the Son of God, is represented as being eternal, etc.

But when Jesus came to earth by way of Mary, Jesus divested Himself, emptied Himself of His prerogatives as the Son of God and incarnated as the Son of man, or second man, or last Adam.

Those statements by Paul about the second man and the last Adam would make NO SENSE unless Paul was pointing out that Jesus was, not only "made in the likeness of man" but also was made like the first man Adam, as Jesus became only the second Adam to have ever lived.

And then, unlike the first man Adam, the second man Adam remained 100% faithful and loyal to God and did not actuate his own soul life, and as a result the second Adam was filled with the glory of God again, just as the first Adam was in the garden before he sinned.

Or, Found in Him, perhaps you'd like to give me your explanation for Paul's phrases "the first man" and "the second man" and "the last Adam". I'm eagerly looking forward to your exposition.

love, Eden
"we are united by the unity of the Spirit"
 

---

Posted by Found in Him (Member # 7596) on :
 
Eden, There is no point in me discussing this with you at all because you do not believe that Jesus was 100% GOD & 100% MAN when He walked this Earth.

You believe He emptied Himself of His deity-- The word of God states that He humbled Himself and "took on" the form of a servant-- He did not "strip off His deity". Or it would NOT have been the Lord! Jesus Christ was no less than deity, a member of the Godhead in a human man body.

“For since death came through a man, the resurrection of the dead comes also through a man. For as in Adam all die, so in Christ all will be made alive. . . . The first man Adam became a living being, the last Adam, a life-giving spirit. The first man was of the dust of the earth, the second man from heaven.” (1 Corinthians 1:21–22; 15:45–47).

He IS THE RESURRECTION and the LIFE!-- That's what I see here...
 

---

Posted by Keeper (Member # 7675) on :
 
I am not FoundInHim, but here is my exposition, as you call it.

First, I would like to point out that Jesus was not made in the likeness of man, we were made in His likeness. In the flesh We were made first, but in His likeness.

Gen 1:26 And God said, Let Us make man in Our image, after Our likeness; and let them have dominion over the fish.....(King James Version)

I don't know what you mean about Jesus having no soul life.

Adam and Jesus are shown in the NT in two vital ways. First, the geneology of Christ leads back to Adam. This shows that Jesus the Son of God, as one who is also a true human being. (soul)

In Rom 5:12-21 and 1 Cor 15:20-49 Jesus is presented as a Second Adam, whose impact on the human race is in contrast to the negative impact of the First Adam.

Paul said that every man is "In Adam" or "In Christ". The fallen sinner is in relationship with the First Adam. Spiritual renewal brings one into a relationship with Christ.

I really don't want to get into the other stuff you had to say. You see, I need to be doing something else right now.
 

---

Posted by Found in Him (Member # 7596) on :
 
Thank you Keeper for what you did respond. You show more patience than me in answering Eden. I have little patience with anyone that denies the deity of The Lord Jesus Christ... The word of God declares that Jesus Christ is The same yesterday, today and forevermore. He also has said "I The Lord change not"
 

---

Posted by Eden (Member # 5728) on :
 
sister Found in Him wrote

quote:

---

Eden, There is no point in me discussing this with you (Eden) at all because you do not believe that Jesus was 100% GOD & 100% MAN when He walked this Earth.

---

quote:

---

First, I would like to point out that Jesus was not made in the likeness of man, we were made in His likeness. In the flesh We were made first, but in His likeness.

---

Say what?

Acts 14:11
And when the people saw what Paul had done, they lifted up their voices, saying in the speech of Lycaonia, "The gods are come down to us in the likeness of men."

Romans 8:3
For what the law could not do, in that it was weak through the flesh, God sending His own Son in the likeness of sinful fleshp, and for sin, condemned sin in the flesh.

Philippians 2:7
But made Himself of no reputation, and took upon Him the form of a servant, and He was made in the likeness of men.

If Jesus had been on earth in His capacity as the Son of God, what would that have proved? Because sinful people would say, "yeah, but He is the Son of God, no wonder!". But when God sent His Son as the Son of man who was IDENTICAL to the first Adam, then sinful people could say, "the second man Jesus stayed 100% loyal to the Father during his lifetime, so that proves that the first Adam could have remained faithful to the LORD too". Therefore Jesus paid a "like price"; as by one:

Romans 5:19
For as by one man's disobedience many were made sinners, so by the obedience of one shall many be made righteous.

So explain to me, dear brother Keeper who has the Spirit, what do YOU think the meaning is of Paul's phrases "the first man" and "the second man" and "the last Adam"?

thanks, Eden
"have a great week in Jesus"
 

---

Posted by oneinchrist (Member # 6532) on :
 
Hi again Found in Him,
I was reading the book of Hebrews tonight and I could not help but notice the recurrence of the word "appointed" being used in reference to Jesus.

"whom He hath appointed heir of all things"

"who was faithful to Him who appointed Him"

--the words "chosen" and "ordained" are synonyms to "appointed".


Now my question is, how can anyone not see that there is a "hierarchy of authority" evident here?

With love in Christ, Daniel
 

---

Posted by Copper25 (Member # 7464) on :
 
Revelation 19:13) And he was clothed with a vesture dipped in blood: and his name is called The Word of God.

john 1:1) In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.

Plain and simple, Christ is the word, and in John 1:1, it states that "the word was God."

Thus concluding that Jesus is God

Let's move one to another verse

Jonah 2:9) But I will sacrifice unto thee with the voice of thanksgiving; I will pay that that I have vowed. Salvation is of the LORD.

If jesus was anyone but God, salvation would not be of God considering the magnitude of cross, how he died to deliver us from bondage. And in what form did He do it in. In the form of a man.

Titus 2:

13) Looking for that blessed hope, and the glorious appearing of the great God and our Saviour Jesus Christ ;

14) Who gave himself for us, that he might redeem us from all iniquity, and purify unto himself a peculiar people, zealous of good works.

Now let us look at the Book of colossians 1

13) Who hath delivered us from the power of darkness, and hath translated us into the kingdom of his dear Son:

14) In whom we have redemption through his blood, even the forgiveness of sins:

15) Who is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of every creature:

16) For by him were all things created, that are in heaven, and that are in earth, visible and invisible, whether they be thrones, or dominions, or principalities, or powers: all things were created by him, and for him:

17) And he is before all things, and by him all things consist.

Marvel at the God and our Savior Jesus who created the universe, who is before all things, and in whom all things are sustained.

Christ is God. The fleshy body was a veil, a covering of His true Godliness and array of power.


Eden said
So explain to me, dear brother Keeper who has the Spirit, what do YOU think the meaning is of Paul's phrases "the first man" and "the second man" and "the last Adam"?
---------------

Matthew 1

1The book of the generation of Jesus Christ, the son of David, the son of Abraham.

2Abraham begat Isaac; and Isaac begat Jacob; and Jacob begat Judas and his brethren;

3And Judas begat Phares and Zara of Thamar; and Phares begat Esrom; and Esrom begat Aram;

4And Aram begat Aminadab; and Aminadab begat Naasson; and Naasson begat Salmon;

5And Salmon begat Booz of Rachab; and Booz begat Obed of Ruth; and Obed begat Jesse;

6And Jesse begat David the king; and David the king begat Solomon of her that had been the wife of Urias;

7And Solomon begat Roboam; and Roboam begat Abia; and Abia begat Asa;

8And Asa begat Josaphat; and Josaphat begat Joram; and Joram begat Ozias;

9And Ozias begat Joatham; and Joatham begat Achaz; and Achaz begat Ezekias;

10And Ezekias begat Manasses; and Manasses begat Amon; and Amon begat Josias;

11And Josias begat Jechonias and his brethren, about the time they were carried away to Babylon:

12And after they were brought to Babylon, Jechonias begat Salathiel; and Salathiel begat Zorobabel;

13And Zorobabel begat Abiud; and Abiud begat Eliakim; and Eliakim begat Azor;

14And Azor begat Sadoc; and Sadoc begat Achim; and Achim begat Eliud;

15And Eliud begat Eleazar; and Eleazar begat Matthan; and Matthan begat Jacob;

16 And Jacob begat Joseph the husband of Mary, of whom was born Jesus, who is called Christ.

The geneology of Christ. Christ was in the blood line of Adam, thus the scripture is fufilled

Romans 5:19
For as by one man's disobedience many were made sinners, so by the obedience of one shall many be made righteous.

and

1 corinthians 15:45) And so it is written, The first man Adam was made a living soul; the last Adam was made a quickening spirit.

Christ who is God, came in likeness of man, being part of Adam's bloodline, is the second Adam through whom we are justified.
 

---

Posted by Eden (Member # 5728) on :
 
I'm very intrigued by this conersation about "hierarchy of authority" and that oneinchrist also joined on that "hierarchy of authority" side.

I do think that the LORD YHWY and the Lord Jesus Yahshua and the Holy Spirit are ALL DIVINE and NOT HUMAN, and as such, I think They are Altogether in the Thing that They do, which is at least DIVINE.

They are WAY more than we are as sinful descendants of Adam and Eve.

So the Father had a Son and like His Father, this Son is ETERNAL AND DIVINE, the SAME IN SUBSTANCE AND BEING AND LOOKALIKENESS AS HIS FATHER YHWY.

And the Holy Spirit is also clearly DIVINE. The Father DOES NOT MERGE INTO THE SON, nor does the SON MERGE INTO THE FATHER. They FOREVER stay Separate Persons of the Godhead and they DO NOTMERGE IN AND OUT OF EACH OTHER.

The Eternal Godhead, for me, consists of Three Lovely Divine Persons, to wit, the Divine LORD YHWH, the Divine Only Begotten Son Jesus Yahshua, and the Divine Holy Spirit.

What was the Nicean declaration again?

love, Eden who was never in Chilmad
 

---

Posted by Copper25 (Member # 7464) on :
 
The Hierarchy of the Father on top, this is why I said on the other post which I meant to post on this one

1 Corinthians 15

27) For he hath put all things under his feet. But when he saith all things are put under him, it is manifest that he is excepted, which did put all things under him.

28) And when all things shall be subdued unto him, then shall the Son also himself be subject unto him that put all things under him, that God may be all in all.

NOW LOOK AT THIS CLOSLY and tell me what you see
 

---

Posted by Eden (Member # 5728) on :
 
1 Corinthians 15

27. For he has put all things under his feet. But when he says all things are put under him, it is manifest that he is excepted, which did put all things under him.

28) And when all things shall be subdued unto him, then shall the Son also himself be subject to him that put all things under him, that God may be all in all.

Will this hierarchy in the Godhead be permanent? And why not? Jesus is a Son of God, and as such is Pure God, just like a son of a human is Pure Human. So I have no problem with there being God the Father YHWH and God the Son and the Holy Spirit, all Three are now in the Godhead. What do I care, if there are One or Three? They are ALL GREAT!!!

So, Copper25, to be clear, what do YOU think that verse means, please?

1 Corinthians 15

27. For he has put all things under his feet. But when he says all things are put under him, it is manifest that he is excepted, which did put all things under him.

28) And when all things shall be subdued unto him, then shall the Son also himself be subject to him that put all things under him, that God may be all in all.

For me, in any case, Those Three are FAR GREATER THAN I AM, and that's all that matters to me. Although I go much beyond that now that I have been saved for a while and have learned more about Them...

love, Eden who was never in Chilmad either
 

---

Posted by Found in Him (Member # 7596) on :
 

quote:

---

Originally posted by oneinchrist:
Hi again Found in Him,
I was reading the book of Hebrews tonight and I could not help but notice the recurrence of the word "appointed" being used in reference to Jesus.

"whom He hath appointed heir of all things"

"who was faithful to Him who appointed Him"

--the words "chosen" and "ordained" are synonyms to "appointed".


Now my question is, how can anyone not see that there is a "hierarchy of authority" evident here?

With love in Christ, Daniel

---

Hi Oneinchrist...

you will find throughout the bible where God The Father sent Him for He was sent... The OT and NT states that He was sent, ordained, appointed and chosen.

"Listen to Me, O Jacob, and Israel, My called: I am He, I am the First, I am also the Last. Indeed My hand has laid the foundation of the earth, and My right hand has stretched out the heavens. When I call to them, They stand up together.

Come near to Me, hear this: I have not spoken in secret from the beginning; From the time that it was, I was there. And now the Lord GOD and His Spirit Have sent Me.

Thus says the LORD, your Redeemer, The Holy One of Israel: "I am the LORD your God, Who teaches you to profit, Who leads you by the way you should go.” (Isaiah 48:12,16-17)

He was Faithful, in total humility, submission and obedience To The Father while on Earth in an Earth suit...yet He was God.

If you are looking for a "hierarchy of authority" within the Godhead... you are asking the wrong Gal ... "Hear O Israel, The LORD our GOD is One LORD"
 

---

Posted by Eden (Member # 5728) on :
 
hi, oneinchrist, you wrote[quote]"whom He hasappointed heir of all things"

"who was faithful to Him who appointed Him"

--the words "chosen" and "ordained" are synonyms to "appointed".

Now my question is, how can anyone not see that there is a "hierarchy of authority" evident here?

I think that while Jesus was on earth in Isreal, Jesus did properly think and speak in terms of a hierarchy of authority.

But I think that now that Jesus is back in heaven, that the Son Jesus and the Father YHWY are having a wonderful united relationship together, and it is probably hard to tell that One is the Son and One is the Father, They love Each Other so much...but that there will always remain a Father YHWH and a Son Jesus Yashua and the Holy Spirit, NEVER MERGING INTO AND OUT OF EACH OTHER, but ALWAYS SEPARATE, that I personally believe.

thanks, Eden
 

---

Posted by Found in Him (Member # 7596) on :
 

quote:

---

Originally posted by Copper25:
The Hierarchy of the Father on top, this is why I said on the other post which I meant to post on this one

1 Corinthians 15

27) For he hath put all things under his feet. But when he saith all things are put under him, it is manifest that he is excepted, which did put all things under him.

28) And when all things shall be subdued unto him, then shall the Son also himself be subject unto him that put all things under him, that God may be all in all.

NOW LOOK AT THIS CLOSLY and tell me what you see

---

What do we see Copper?

Who is God? Is God The Father separate from The Son and The Spirit? Which one is more God?

"For there are three that bear record in heaven, the Father, the Word, and the Holy Ghost: and these three are one." (1 John 5:7).

"Hear, 0 Israel: The LORD our God is one LORD." (Deuteronomy 6:4). Our Lord Jesus Christ confirmed this in Mark 12:29.
 

---

Posted by Found in Him (Member # 7596) on :
 
The Father commands that all honor The Son as they honor The Father... The Son calls God His God.. The Father calls The Son His God... The Father gives The Son All authority and power in Heaven and in Earth... The Son hands the kingdom back to "GOD" at the end of the age.... The Father declares that there is No End to The Son's throne or reign... Jesus says "thine is the Kingdom" The Father exalts The Son and gives Him The name above all names... And The Spirit Joyfully has spoken all of The above to us.

They are ONE GOD. God The Father, God The Son, God The Holy Spirit. No one can separate them or assign them their rank, especially when they seem to esteem one another like this. It is Beautiful.

"Hear O Israel, The LORD our GOD is ONE GOD"
 

---

Posted by Copper25 (Member # 7464) on :
 
First off why would I ever say a thing like that, or imply it, I guess I should not do that type of tell me what you see thing, if you drawn such conclusion that I implied such a thing

Who is God? Is God The Father separate from The Son and The Spirit? Which one is more God?

Now the truth is that...

We have a triune God who exist in the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit

1 Corinthians 15

27)For he hath put all things under his feet. But when he saith all things are put under him, it is manifest that he is excepted, which did put all things under him.

28) And when all things shall be subdued unto him, then shall the Son also himself be subject unto him that put all things under him, that God may be all in all.


look, look

when all things shall be subdued unto him

that is unto Christ

then shall the Son also himself be subject unto him that put all things under him

that is the Father

I never said that either one was more God!

nor that God The Father separate from The Son and The Spirit!

Now the truth is that...

We have a triune God who exist in the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit

This shows Hierarchy, but let me make this very clear, "I never said that either one was more God nor that God The Father separate from The Son and The Spirit."
 

---

Posted by Found in Him (Member # 7596) on :
 
Then "GOD" (The Father, Son and Holy Spirit) Shall be all in all. Right now we are all subject to Christ as God The Father has Him ABOVE ALL.

1 Corinthians 15
24 Then the end will come, when after he has done away with every ruler and every authority and power, the Messiah hands over the kingdom to God the Father. 25 For he must rule until God puts all the Messiah’s enemies under his feet. 26 The last enemy to be done away with is death, 27 for “God has put everything under his feet.” Now when he says, “Everything has been put under him,” this clearly excludes the one who put everything under him. 28 But when everything has been put under him, then the Son himself will also become subject to the one who put everything under him, so that God may be all in all.

Not because the Son was not subject to his Father before, but because his body, that is to say, the Church which is here in distress, and not yet wholly partaker of his glory, is not yet fully perfect: and also because the bodies of the saints which are in the graves, will not be glorified until the resurrection. But Christ as he is God, has us subject to him as his Father has, but as he is Priest, he is subject to his Father together with us.

The Son himself . subject-not as the creatures are, but as a Son voluntarily subordinate to, though co-equal with, the Father. In the mediatorial kingdom, the Son had been, in a manner, distinct from the Father. Now, His kingdom shall merge in the Father's, with whom He is one; not that there is thus any derogation from His honor; for the Father Himself wills "that all should honor the Son, as they honor the Father" (Joh 5:22, 23; Heb 1:6).

Verse 28
And when all things have been subjected unto him, then shall the Son also himself be subjected to him that did subject all things unto him, that God may be all, in all.


Coffman Commentaries
It is a gross error to see this passage as reducing in any manner the status of Jesus Christ and his "equality with God" (Philippians 2:6), the thing in view here being the end of Christ's mediatorial office. At the time of his kingdom being united with godhead in heaven, the need of those special devices which were necessary in human redemption shall have disappeared. This verse marks the end of the digression which Paul began back in 1 Cor. 15:20. He at once resumed his argument to show the absurdity of unbelief in the resurrection of the dead.
 

---

Posted by Copper25 (Member # 7464) on :
 
Found in Him said

"The Son himself . subject-not as the creatures are, but as a Son voluntarily subordinate to, though co-equal with, the Father. In the mediatorial kingdom, the Son had been, in a manner, distinct from the Father. Now, His kingdom shall merge in the Father's, with whom He is one; not that there is thus any derogation from His honor; for the Father Himself wills "that all should honor the Son, as they honor the Father" (Joh 5:22, 23; Heb 1:6)."

Yes this is true.

aand I say this

COLOSSIANS 1

14In whom we have redemption through his blood, even the forgiveness of sins:

15Who is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of every creature:

16) For by him were all things created, that are in heaven, and that are in earth, visible and invisible, whether they be thrones, or dominions, or principalities, or powers: all things were created by him, and for him:

17) And he is before all things, and by him all things consist.

18) And he is the head of the body, the church: who is the beginning, the firstborn from the dead; that in all things he might have the preeminence.

19) For it pleased the Father that in him should all fulness dwell ;

20) And, having made peace through the blood of his cross, by him to reconcile all things unto himself; by him, I say, whether they be things in earth, or things in heaven.

BTW, did I every say that the status, the glory of Christ would be diminished?
 

---

Posted by KnowHim (Member # 1) on :
 

quote:

---

Originally posted by oneinchrist:
Found in Him,
I agree that God is One.

Do you agree that there is a hierarchy of authority in the persons of the Godhead? yes or no.

With love in Christ, Daniel

---

quote:

---

Each disciple is a pupil of The Lord and should seek His approval and not necessarily the approval or agreement of others on their opinion or how they interpret scripture.

There is not always going to be agreement among the Brethren on doctrine, I accept that. I seek the approval of The Lord, not others.

---

quote:

---

We all believe as we are persuaded. If another does not agree, why does it need a special note of respect or further discussion? They simply just don't agree, right?

---

quote:

---

If I feel that my views are "indisputable" or "approved of God"-- isn't that honestly between the Lord and I?

---

And that is also a convenient way to test the truth of what we have learned, by saying, Oh, it's between me and the Lord". I don't think the Lord works that way, I think He tests our views by making us rub "iron against iron", not "iron against gold".

love, Eden
 

---

Posted by oneinchrist (Member # 6532) on :
 
Hi Found in Him,
The reason that I am asking you the question that I am is because much of your posting on these subjects has not been from the stand-point of "we are pupils, lets learn together.......but more rather that you are teaching us what is absolute........that is why I will say that I agree or disagree and give an explanation.

Personally, I do not feel that you should be offended by whether or not someone says that they agree or disagree---especially, if they are courteous and go on to explain why they agree or disagree. I realize these specific issues are not vital in the sense of a make or brake between being saved and not being saved, but nevertheless they still are issues that do come up at times for discussion.

With love in Christ, Daniel
 

---

Posted by Found in Him (Member # 7596) on :
 
You know what Eden? I'm not having a real good day here... and you've just happen to add to it. I have had an hour and 15 minutes sleep in the last 48 hours. My car was left parked outside last night and 3 of the 5 windows are destroyed. I thought that someone was attempting to break into my bedroom window... I have spoken to cops, cleaned up glass. cleaned blood off of myself from the glass. I'm sitting here shaking... came to hopefully find encouragement and read your words.

I just wanted to take a moment and say thanks Eden. I hope that you have a wonderful day in The Lord.

Love,
Jeannie
 

---

Posted by Found in Him (Member # 7596) on :
 
And thanks Daniel as well. I will do better today in self examination. I hope that you too have a wonderful day in The Lord.

Peace.
 

---

Posted by Carol Swenson (Member # 6929) on :
 
Found in Him,

I'm sorry to hear you've had these troubles. I hope you're okay? Here is something that might give you encouragement.

The lesson of the mustard seed is taught in Mark 4:30-32. It is immediately followed by a practical lesson.


Mark 4:35 - 41 (NLT)

35 As evening came, Jesus said to his disciples, “Let’s cross to the other side of the lake.” 36 So they took Jesus in the boat and started out, leaving the crowds behind (although other boats followed). 37 But soon a fierce storm came up. High waves were breaking into the boat, and it began to fill with water. 38 Jesus was sleeping at the back of the boat with his head on a cushion. The disciples woke him up, shouting, “Teacher, don’t you care that we’re going to drown?” 39 When Jesus woke up, he rebuked the wind and said to the water, “Silence! Be still!” Suddenly the wind stopped, and there was a great calm. 40 Then he asked them, “Why are you afraid? Do you still have no faith?” 41 The disciples were absolutely terrified. “Who is this man?” they asked each other. “Even the wind and waves obey him!”

He had been teaching His disciples the Word and now He would give them a practical test to see how much they had really learned. After all, the hearing of God’s Word is intended to produce faith (Rom. 10:17); and faith must always be tested. It is not enough for us merely to learn a lesson or be able to repeat a teaching. We must also be able to practice that lesson by faith, and that is one reason why God permits trials to come to our lives.

Did Jesus know that the storm was coming? Of course He did! The storm was a part of that day’s curriculum. It would help the disciples understand a lesson that they did not even know they needed to learn: Jesus can be trusted in the storms of life. (Wiersbe)

"This is the victory that overcometh the world, even our faith" (I John 5:4).
 

---

Posted by Found in Him (Member # 7596) on :
 
Thanks Carol,

He is The same God, through good times and bad isn't He?

Now if I could just stop shaking! I'm not sure what's going on with me...Maybe nerves?? I really don't care about the car or any damages to property, that's all replaceable or fixable. I'm safe- That's what I'm thankful for.


I'm gonna try to lay down now.

Thanks Carol for your words of encouragement.



 

---

Posted by oneinchrist (Member # 6532) on :
 
Hi Found in Him,
I am sorry to hear about what happened to you. I pray that the Lord helps calm your nerves.

With love in Christ, Daniel
 

---

Posted by Betty Louise (Member # 7175) on :
 
There must be something in the air. My cat knocked a glass of tea on my laptop and blew it out. My husband and I are at odds and everything we attempted today has had issues.
It is 8:20p.m. and were have been so upset that we have not had lunch yet.
Praying for a peace, calm, happy day tomorrow for all that comes to this board.
betty
 

---

Posted by Found in Him (Member # 7596) on :
 
I am truly sorry about the lap-top and your other troubles as well Betty. I hear you on the frustrations of the day... this too was a tough one for me.

Sometimes we just need that encouragement and peace. I pray too that those who come here to this board will find words of hope, encouragement and love.

Please Bless my Sister Lord with a very special touch of Your peace, joy and glorious presence.. in Jesus name I pray.



 

---

Posted by Carol Swenson (Member # 6929) on :
 
Hi Betty,

That goes for me too
 

---

Posted by Betty Louise (Member # 7175) on :
 
FoundInHim and Carol,

Thank you both. We had such a bad day that we skipped lunch. At 10:30 tonight we drove to Denny's and ate breakfast for supper. I am praying for both of you. I love you both.
betty
 

---

Posted by Keeper (Member # 7675) on :
 
Awright Ladies. Nuf Pitty Party.

When each of you get up Saturday Morning, the rest of us insist that you wake up with a Happy Face and all will change for the best. OK?


(if by some chance it turns out not so good, blame it on Eden) But don't worry, it's gonna be just great!
 

---

Posted by Found in Him (Member # 7596) on :
 
Ok, but if by some chance it's not a good day. We will blame Eden because you said we could.
 

---

Posted by Carol Swenson (Member # 6929) on :
 
Eden,

How come my day off turned cold and cloudy?
 

---

Posted by Found in Him (Member # 7596) on :
 
And I have clouds as well???

I'm not so sure this guy can be trusted, you Carol??
 

---

Posted by Carol Swenson (Member # 6929) on :
 
Don't know. He's kinda slow on the sunshine. He'll probably make some excuse about April showers...blah!
 

---

Posted by Found in Him (Member # 7596) on :
 
Well, as Christians, maybe we should give him the benefit of the doubt? You know, like a grace period?
 

---

Posted by Carol Swenson (Member # 6929) on :
 
Okay. He's got until noon.
 

---

Posted by WildB (Member # 2917) on :
 

quote:

---

Originally posted by Found in Him:
You know what Eden? I'm not having a real good day here... and you've just happen to add to it. I have had an hour and 15 minutes sleep in the last 48 hours. My car was left parked outside last night and 3 of the 5 windows are destroyed. I thought that someone was attempting to break into my bedroom window... I have spoken to cops, cleaned up glass. cleaned blood off of myself from the glass. I'm sitting here shaking... came to hopefully find encouragement and read your words.

I just wanted to take a moment and say thanks Eden. I hope that you have a wonderful day in The Lord.

Love,
Jeannie

---

Matt.12

[29] Or else how can one enter into a strong man's house, and spoil his goods, except he first bind the strong man? and then he will spoil his house.

Let not your fear bind you.


Luke.22

[36] Then said he unto them, But now, he that hath a purse, let him take it, and likewise his scrip: and he that hath no sword, let him sell his garment, and buy one.

Get yourself a hand gun then go to the range and learn how to use it properly.
 

---

Posted by Found in Him (Member # 7596) on :
 
Well, it's 12:47 my time, so that time is expired for me. I will settle for 2:00 my time. But that's as far as I will stretch it today. These clouds have got to go!
 

---

Posted by Carol Swenson (Member # 6929) on :
 
I'll bet Eden has lots of sunshine. (Good thing too when you compare fig leaves to wool).


 

---

Posted by Carol Swenson (Member # 6929) on :
 
Do you think we're off topic?
 

---

Posted by Found in Him (Member # 7596) on :
 

Well if we are a little off, it wouldn't be the first time. Eden just brings this out in one I guess. Oops, it's only 1:23. He still has over 30 min left. My bad.
 

---

Posted by Carol Swenson (Member # 6929) on :
 


Just enough time to get ready!
 

---

Posted by Found in Him (Member # 7596) on :
 
That's Great LoL! I'm wondering how Betty's day is though... Betty, Do you have sunshine today?
 

---

Posted by Betty Louise (Member # 7175) on :
 
FoundInHim,

I hope today is a better day for you. Son got my lap top back together and it is working. Only the keyboard is messed up so I have to type slow and carefully, but I feel much better.
May God shine His blessing on both you and Carol.
betty
 

---

Posted by Carol Swenson (Member # 6929) on :
 
And on you too! A lot!
 

---

Posted by Found in Him (Member # 7596) on :
 
I'm glad you are having a better day Betty!
 

---

Posted by Found in Him (Member # 7596) on :
 
Sun is shemesh in hebrew. (Just in case it can't be found).


 

---

Posted by Found in Him (Member # 7596) on :
 
It's 2:02. Sorry Eden, I still have clouds! It's (again) officially... your fault!

I still love you though
 

---

Posted by Keeper (Member # 7675) on :
 
Well ! I have sunshine and it is too hot. I took some animals for shots today and it there was too much noise. My tiller gave me a hard time starting. My wife is being hard to get along with. No one responded to my post yesterday about government attacks on Christians.
Too much junk mail. More bad news about government attacks on us. Eden !
 

---

Posted by Carol Swenson (Member # 6929) on :
 
Your sunshine is WONDERFUL! Thank you so much!
 

---

Posted by Carol Swenson (Member # 6929) on :
 
Keeper

Maybe a nap would help???
 

---

Posted by Keeper (Member # 7675) on :
 
OH WELL, If Eden isn't here to pick on, this isn't any fun is it ? Even if he is to blame for everything. hehe
 

---

Posted by Copper25 (Member # 7464) on :
 
We started out here *
and then the thread went way out there ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------> *
 

---

Posted by Found in Him (Member # 7596) on :
 
Yes isn't that great....Guess who's fault that is??
 

---

Posted by Keeper (Member # 7675) on :
 
It is easier for a rich man to get a camel through the eye of a needle,
than it is for Eden to keep the same subject on a thread.

It's Eden's fault.
 

---

Posted by Found in Him (Member # 7596) on :
 
All Things are possible?????
 

---

Posted by Carol Swenson (Member # 6929) on :
 
The HOPE video


http://www.christiananswers.net/hope/home.html
 

---

Posted by Found in Him (Member # 7596) on :
 
It never hurts to. hehehe
 

---

Posted by Carol Swenson (Member # 6929) on :
 


I should have told you...this one is not a joke.

The HOPE is a really nice video that tells the story of God's plan, and it explains our Lord Jesus Christ is God.

I have the DVD at home. I'm excited to find it online.
 

---

Posted by Found in Him (Member # 7596) on :
 
Ok thanks Eden
 

---

Posted by Found in Him (Member # 7596) on :
 
Just kidding, I will check it out
 

---

Posted by Keeper (Member # 7675) on :
 
Carol, I will check it out also.

I'm on dial-up, will it take me into my retirement years before I can watch it?
 

---

Posted by Carol Swenson (Member # 6929) on :
 
It's about an hour long I think. It plays on Media Player, Real Player, or Quicktime. Real Player has a 28K version.
 

---

Posted by Keeper (Member # 7675) on :
 
Thanks, yes, I tried it to see the set up but didn't want to wait for my dial-up to dry-up.
It is slower than my wife serving me coffee.
(yeah, I wish)
 

---