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Posted by becauseHElives (Member # 87) on
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PROOF THAT WE ARE LIVING IN THE LAST DAYS
LUKE 21: AND CHRIST SAID TO THEM: NATION WILL RISE AGAINST NATION, AND KINGDOM AGAINST KINGDOM. AND THERE WILL BE GREAT EARTHQUAKES IN VARIOUS PLACES, AND FAMINES AND PESTILENCES, AND THERE WILL BE FEARFUL SIGHTS AND GREAT SIGNS FROM HEAVEN. AND THERE WILL BE SIGNS IN THE SUN, IN THE MOON, AND IN THE STARS; AND ON THE EARTH DISTRESS OF NATIONS, WITH PERPLEXITY, THE SEA AND THE WAVES ROARING; MENS HEARTS FAILING THEM FROM FEAR AND THE EXPECTATION OF THOSE THINGS WHICH ARE COMING ON THE EARTH, FOR THE POWERS OF THE HEAVENS WILL BE SHAKEN. THEN THEY WILL SEE THE SON OF MAN COMING IN A CLOUD WITH POWER AND GREAT GLORY.
With the chaos and uncertainty growing around the world almost daily, more people than ever should be preparing for the event that will bring about the climax to human history, and the restoration of all things, in other words, a NEW Heaven, and a NEW Earth: The Second Coming of Christ. The Bible describes how God's plan for a personal relationship with man had a definite beginning (with Adam almost 6000 years ago) and will have a definite end, climaxing in the return of Jesus Christ. God does indeed declare "the end from the beginning". The Bible contains many prophetic scriptures concerning world events, the nation of Israel, and Jesus Christ. Many have been already confirmed by history, while others relate to what the Bible terms "the last days".
Prophecies of the Old Testament, the early apostles and Christ himself all speak openly of "signs" that will herald the close of this age. So clear are these descriptions that we, today, can have no doubt that we are living in those last days. Perhaps the best known passage of scripture is in Matthew 24:3-31. These "signs" will be manifest in all aspects of life: the nations, their alignment and conflicts; nature; religious confusion and hypocrisy; society and the family; technology and knowledge; and Christian revival.
SIGNS IN NATURE: The cataclysmic tsunami resulting from perhaps the largest earthquake in history, and killing over a hundred thousand at the end of 2004, " THE SEAS AND THE WAVES ROARING", we have never seen more signs than now that the last days are here. The 20th century witnessed a marked increase in earthquake activity with millions being killed. It has been estimated that the incidence of earthquakes has doubled every ten years since 1950. Witness the massive earthquake in Iran at the end of 2003 that killed tens of thousands, "AND THERE WILL BE GREAT EARTHQUAKES IN VARIOUS PLACES". Similarly we have seen hundreds of thousands die of disease and starvation, "AND FAMINES AND PESTILENCES".
Today, man lives in fear of catastrophic changes that are occurring in the world's weather patterns: more extreme temperatures, more severe cyclones, floods and droughts. In space, comets are coming out of nowhere and are making close calls to the earth, such as the 1996 Comet Hyakutake, or the 1997 Hale Bopp comet. A direct hit of even a small comet would be catastrophic. The sun has never been more unstable, with solar storms at an all time high. "AND THERE WILL BE SIGNS IN THE SUN, IN THE MOON, AND IN THE STARS". As well, there is concern over the harm that is being done to the earth through man's tampering and weather manipulation with mechanisms like HAARP, and through pollution and depletion of natural resources.
SOCIETY AND THE FAMILY: The Bible also foretells a breakdown in society and morals: '"this know also, that in the last days perilous times shall come. For men shall be lovers of their own selves, covetous, boasters, proud, blasphemers, disobedient to parents, unthankful, unholy, without natural affection, truce breakers, false accusers, incontinent, fierce, despisers of those that are good, traitors heady, high minded, lovers of pleasures more than lovers of God" (2 Timothy 3:1-4).
What better words could describe our time and generation? Crime rates continue to soar around the world, as does the incidence of domestic violence and marital breakdown This generation's desire to please "self' first has severe repercussions on social behavior and people's expectation for the future. Drugs, alcohol and other pleasures so heavily pursued by many provide only temporary escape from man's deep unhappiness and discontent. Depression is driving many to suicide (particularly amongst our youth); while mental disorders and nervous breakdowns are more prevalent today than ever before.
INCREASED KNOWLEDGE: In Daniel 12:4 we read: "But thou, Daniel, shut up the words, and seal the book, even to the time of the end: but many shall run to and fro, and knowledge shall be increased". Our generation has seen a breathtaking increase in knowledge and technology, unimaginable to those of even a hundred years ago. Advances in communication, transport medicine, materials science, electronics, and nuclear physics, to name a few, are products of this age of increased knowledge and opportunity which the Bible refers to as the "times of the end".
Despite man's preoccupation with knowledge and academic pursuits, Paul warns that many are "Ever learning, and never coming to the knowledge of the truth" (2 Timothy 3:7). Their desire for knowledge is misdirected. And: "For the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine, but according to their own desires, because they have itching ears, they will heap up for themselves teachers; and they will turn their ears away from the truth, and be turned aside to fables" (2 Timothy 4:3-4).
GREAT BUT USELESS RICHES: The most powerful economy in the world, America, is on the brink of economic collapse. It's currency is rapidly losing value, it's jobs are going to foreign dictatorships like China, from within it is being overun by illegal aliens, and all of this is being allowed to happen by leaders who have sold out, and betrayed America. The Bible says "Go now you rich men, weep and howl for your miseries which shall come upon you. Your riches are corrupted . . . Your silver and gold are cankered; and the rust of them shall be as a witness against you, and shall eat your flesh as if it were fire. You have heaped together treasure for the last days" (James 5:1-3) Pertaining to the temporary nature of wealth, and the effect of monetary inflation the Bible says: " ... and he that earns wages to put it into a bag with holes" (Haggai 1:6).
POWERLESS RELIGION: In his letter to Timothy, the apostle Paul describes the religious leaders of the last days as: "Having a form of godliness, but denying the power thereof, from such turn away" (2 Timothy 3:5). The "Christianity" most think of today is a far cry from the excitement that existed in the early Christian church. The Acts of the Apostles and the epistles (letters) of the New Testament clearly demonstrate that miracles, signs and wonders were commonplace (and to be expected) in the Church. Yet today, even those holding office in many of the mainline Christian churches deny that such things are for today. Some have even gone on record as denying that God exists!
"Now the Spirit speaks expressly, that in the latter times some shall depart from the faith, giving heed to seducing spirits, and doctrines of devils; speaking lies in hypocrisy; (1 Timothy 4:1-3). The early Christian leaders, reiterating Jesus' warnings, knew that the truth of the gospel would be distorted by men and that superstitious (they called them "devilish") practices would be introduced in place of the simple message of salvation.
Jesus also warned of many that would try to deceive the innocent: " ... take heed that no man deceive you. For many shall come in my name, saying, I am Christ; and shall deceive many" (Matthew 24:4-5). We are assured that there will be no mistaking the return of Christ, for all will be witnesses: "And then shall they see the Son of man coming in a cloud with power and great glory" (Luke 21:27).
"WARS AND RUMORS OF WARS": One of the most obvious, and indeed topical, Bible descriptions of the last days relates to international conflict. Matthew 24:6-7 reads: "And you shall hear of wars and rumors of wars: see that you be not troubled: for all these things must come to pass, but the end is not yet. For nation shall rise against nation, and kingdom against kingdom".
The 20th century experienced two world wars, and countless smaller ones, and the development of nuclear weapons. Since 1945 we have experienced well over 50 major wars or conflicts throughout the world, with a number bringing the major nations again to the brink of world war. Now the potential is there for the next major war to destroy the entire population of the earth. With the cataclysmic events of 9-11-2001, and the subsequent wars and chaos in the middle east, we can clearly see how the world is headed for the brink.
PERILOUS TIMES: The apostle Paul described these days as "Perilous" (2 Timothy 3:1). Professor Albert Einstein, one of the pioneers of modern physics and whose work contributed to the production of the atomic bomb, said after the destruction of Hiroshima and Nagasaki: "Annihilation of all life on earth has been brought within the range of technical possibilities. The ghost-like character of this development lies in its apparently compulsory trend... in the end there beckons more and more clearly general annihilation". Now, some five decades later, the destructive power of the atomic bomb has been long superseded, and Einstein's concerns are all too real. The effect of nuclear weapons is clearly foretold in scripture: "And I will show wonders in the heavens and in the earth, blood and fire, and pillars [literally 'palm trees" in the original Hebrew] of smoke. The sun shall be turned into darkness, and the moon into blood, before the great and the terrible day of the Lord comes (Joel 2:30-31). "For behold, the day cometh, that shall burn as an oven . .. " (Malachi 4:1). "... Their flesh shall consume away while they stand upon their feet, and their eyes shall consume away in their holes, and their tongue shall consume away in their mouth" (Zechariah 14:12). "But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night; in which the heavens shall pass away with a great noise, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat, the earth also and the works that are therein shall be burned up" (2 Peter 3:10). "Men's hearts failing them for fear, and for looking after those things which are coming upon the earth: for the powers of heaven shall be shaken" (Luke 21:26).
ALIGNMENT OF THE NATIONS A number of Old Testament scriptures collectively provide a comprehensive prophetic message concerning God's promises to the nation of Israel (not synonymous with modern Israel) and the alignment of the nations in the last days. In summary, they tell how the southern (Islamic) nations of the Commonwealth of Independent States (previously the U.S.S.R.), in association with Libya and Ethiopia (Ezekiel 35-38), will be in direct conflict with the United States of America, nations of the British Commonwealth and their western European allies. At the center of the conflict will be modern Israel and Jerusalem, which the Bible describes as "a burdensome stone" (Zechariah 12:3).
WATCH: The many signs heralding Jesus' return were given for our benefit and encouragement, but we must recognize them. Speaking to the "religious" people of His day, Jesus said: "0h you hypocrites, you can discern the face of the sky; but you can not discern the signs of the times" (Matthew 16:3). Jesus said: "Watch therefore: for you know not when the master of the house comes, at midnight, or at the **** -crowing in the morning: Lest coming suddenly he find you sleeping. And what I say unto you I say unto all, Watch" (Mark 13:35-37).
We are living in the most remarkable time in history. But we must realize that this is the last generation, and that our future lies not in knowledge, scientific progress, or in material possessions, but in a personal relationship with God, through His Son, Jesus Christ. The Bible says: "Repent, and be baptized every one of you . . . and you shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost'' (Acts 2:38).
Posted by Found in Him (Member # 7596) on
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oooooooooooh yea!
Gentlemen, Start your engines!
John 14
Jesus Comforts His Disciples
1"Do not let your hearts be troubled. Trust in God[a]; trust also in me. 2In my Father's house are many rooms; if it were not so, I would have told you. I am going there to prepare a place for you. 3And if I go and prepare a place for you, I will come back and take you to be with me that you also may be where I am. 4You know the way to the place where I am going."
The Coming of the Lord
13Brothers, we do not want you to be ignorant about those who fall asleep, or to grieve like the rest of men, who have no hope. 14We believe that Jesus died and rose again and so we believe that God will bring with Jesus those who have fallen asleep in him. 15According to the Lord's own word, we tell you that we who are still alive, who are left till the coming of the Lord, will certainly not precede those who have fallen asleep. 16For the Lord himself will come down from heaven, with a loud command, with the voice of the archangel and with the trumpet call of God, and the dead in Christ will rise first. 17After that, we who are still alive and are left will be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air. And so we will be with the Lord forever. 18Therefore encourage each other with these words.
Revelation 19
Hallelujah!
6Then I heard what sounded like a great multitude, like the roar of rushing waters and like loud peals of thunder, shouting:
"Hallelujah!
For our Lord God Almighty reigns.
7Let us rejoice and be glad
and give him glory!
For the wedding of the Lamb has come,
and his bride has made herself ready.
8Fine linen, bright and clean,
was given her to wear." (Fine linen stands for the righteous acts of the saints.)
9Then the angel said to me, "Write: 'Blessed are those who are invited to the wedding supper of the Lamb!' " And he added, "These are the true words of God."
1 Corinthians 15
51Listen, I tell you a mystery: We will not all sleep, but we will all be changed— 52in a flash, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trumpet. For the trumpet will sound, the dead will be raised imperishable, and we will be changed.
1 John 3
2Dear friends, now we are children of God, and what we will be has not yet been made known. But we know that when he appears,[a]we shall be like him, for we shall see him as he is. 3Everyone who has this hope in him purifies himself, just as he is pure.
Revelation 3
3Remember, therefore, what you have received and heard; obey it, and repent. But if you do not wake up, I will come like a thief, and you will not know at what time I will come to you.
Titus 2
13while we wait for the blessed hope—the glorious appearing of our great God and Savior, Jesus Christ
Matthew 24:42-44
"Therefore keep watch, because you do not know on what day your Lord will come. But understand this: If the owner of the house had known at what time of night the thief was coming, he would have kept watch and would not have let his house be broken into. So you also must be ready, because the Son of Man will come at an hour when you do not expect him."
1Thessalonians 1:10
"...and to wait for his Son from heaven, whom he raised from the dead - Jesus, who rescues us from the coming wrath."
2Thessalonians 2:3
"Don’t let anyone deceive you in any way, for that day will not come until the rebellion occurs and the man of lawlessness is revealed, the man doomed to destruction."
2Thessalonians 2:6
"And now you know what is holding him back, so that he may be revealed at the proper time. For the secret power of lawlessness is already at work; but the one who now holds it back will continue to do so till he is taken out of the way."
Posted by bluefrog (Member # 7448) on
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Ezekiel 13: 18 And say, Thus saith the Lord God;Woe to the women that sew pillows to all armholes, and make kerchiefs upon the head of every stature to hunt souls! Will ye hunt the souls of My people, and will ye save the souls alive that come unto you?
19 And will ye pollute Me among My People for handfuls of barley and for pieces of bread, to slay the souls that should not die, and to save the souls alive that should not live,by your lying to My People that hear your lies?
20 Wherefore thus saith the Lord God; Behold, I am against your pillows, wherewith ye there hunt the souls to make them fly, and I will tear them from your arms, and will let the souls go, even the souls that ye hunt to make them fly.
21 Your kerchiefs also will I tear, and deliver My People out of your hand, and they shall be no more in your hand to be hunted; and ye shall know that I am the Lord.
22 Because with lies ye have made the heart of the righteous sad, whom I have not made sad;and strengthened the hands of the wicked, that he should not return from his wicked way, by promising him life;
Posted by Found in Him (Member # 7596) on
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Is this relevant for end times? if so-- scriptures please?
Posted by bluefrog (Member # 7448) on
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Yes it is. Those are the scriptures. Where do you suppose they are to fly to ?
Posted by Found in Him (Member # 7596) on
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quote:
Originally posted by bluefrog:
Yes it is. Those are the scriptures. Where do you suppose they are to fly to ?
Fly?
who?
Matthew 24
36 “However, no one knows the day or the hour when these things will happen, not even
the angels in heaven or the Son himself.* Only the Father knows.
37 “When the Son of Man returns, it will be like it was in Noah’s day. 38 In those days
before the Flood, the people were enjoying banquets and parties and weddings right up to
the time Noah entered his boat. 39 People didn’t realize what was going to happen until the
Flood came and swept them all away. That is the way it will be when the Son of Man comes.
40 “Two men will be working together in the field; one will be taken, the other left. 41 Two
women will be grinding flour at the mill; one will be taken, the other left. 42 So be prepared,
because you don’t know what day your Lord is coming.
Taken...
Taken where?
Posted by Found in Him (Member # 7596) on
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cha ching
Posted by Found in Him (Member # 7596) on
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here, have a little friend for you...
![[BooHoo]](graemlins/boohoo.gif)
Posted by Found in Him (Member # 7596) on
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Alright I will stop picking. I need to get to bed. But if He comes in the night and -takes- anyone away..I'll c-ya there.
peace
i win ![[Smile]](smile.gif)
Posted by Copper25 (Member # 7464) on
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I think this meditation is well placed here, please consider it as always.
1 Thessalonians 3:8) For now we live, if ye stand fast in the Lord.
Hebrews 10:23) “Let us hold fast the profession of our faith without wavering; (for he is faithful that promised”.
Why stand fast, why hold fast, because this world is venom to the soul, toxic and harmful, when the bible speaks of the falling away in the faith how big is it! When people will have tendency to fall into perdition and destruction because they chose not to stand fast in the Lord, but rather to drift away from his love! O I say that the day of the Lord is coming! 1 Corinthians 15:52) “In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed.” and Matthew 24:27) “For as the lightning cometh out of the east, and shineth even unto the west; so shall also the coming of the Son of man be.”
Now all those in Christ shall resurrect first and Revelation 20:6) “Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years.”
This day we are to be watching for, but those temporal elements and rudiments of the world which will fade away and die, we must not get distracted by, lest the Lord come and we are not watching, Luke 12:39) “And this know, that if the goodman of the house had known what hour the thief would come, he would have watched, and not have suffered his house to be broken through.” And this is a warning from the Lord, that we all need to heed, lest he catch us sleeping and we know what happen to that servant
Luke 12:
45) But and if that servant say in his heart, My lord delayeth his coming; and shall begin to beat the menservants and maidens, and to eat and drink, and to be drunken;
46) The lord of that servant will come in a day when he looketh not for him, and at an hour when he is not aware, and will cut him in sunder, and will appoint him his portion with the unbelievers.
People tend to forget that Psalm 90:4) “For a thousand years in thy sight are but as yesterday when it is past, and as a watch in the night.” unto the Lord. “and if that servant say in his heart, My lord delayeth his coming”, o how terrible it is when people act like they have all the time in the world. Like the life of a man is much length and won’t wither away like a flower. O how terrible it is when people underestimate or fail to understand time from a heavenly perspective, not realizing 2 Peter 3:8) “that one day is with the Lord a thousand years, and a thousand years as one day.” Jesus was preaching the gospel saying that the kingdom of heaven is at hand, and that was a bit under 2000 years ago!
Mark 13:28) “Now learn a parable of the fig tree; When her branch is yet tender, and putteth forth leaves, ye know that summer is near: So ye in like manner, when ye shall see these things come to pass, know that it is nigh, even at the doors.” Now look at the year 1948 and see what event took place and unfolded.
Posted by Found in Him (Member # 7596) on
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Jesus always has and always will get the last word. Revelation 22:20
These are the last days. Mark 13:28
He is The first and the last. The beginning and the end. Revelation 22:13
His last words of the bible say:
Revelation 22
Jesus Is Coming
7"Behold, I am coming soon! Blessed is he who keeps the words of the prophecy in this book."
8I, John, am the one who heard and saw these things. And when I had heard and seen them, I fell down to worship at the feet of the angel who had been showing them to me. 9But he said to me, "Do not do it! I am a fellow servant with you and with your brothers the prophets and of all who keep the words of this book. Worship God!"
10Then he told me, "Do not seal up the words of the prophecy of this book, because the time is near. 11Let him who does wrong continue to do wrong; let him who is vile continue to be vile; let him who does right continue to do right; and let him who is holy continue to be holy."
12"Behold, I am coming soon! My reward is with me, and I will give to everyone according to what he has done. 13I am the Alpha and the Omega, the First and the Last, the Beginning and the End.
14"Blessed are those who wash their robes, that they may have the right to the tree of life and may go through the gates into the city. 15Outside are the dogs, those who practice magic arts, the sexually immoral, the murderers, the idolaters and everyone who loves and practices falsehood.
16"I, Jesus, have sent my angel to give you[a] this testimony for the churches. I am the Root and the Offspring of David, and the bright Morning Star."
17The Spirit and the bride say, "Come!" And let him who hears say, "Come!" Whoever is thirsty, let him come; and whoever wishes, let him take the free gift of the water of life.
18I warn everyone who hears the words of the prophecy of this book: If anyone adds anything to them, God will add to him the plagues described in this book. 19And if anyone takes words away from this book of prophecy, God will take away from him his share in the tree of life and in the holy city, which are described in this book.
20He who testifies to these things says, "Yes, I am coming soon."
Amen. Come, Lord Jesus.
21The grace of the Lord Jesus be with God's people. Amen.
He wins! ![[Big Grin]](biggrin.gif)
Posted by Copper25 (Member # 7464) on
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quote:
Originally posted by Found in Him:
Jesus always has and always will get the last word. Revelation 22:20
18I warn everyone who hears the words of the prophecy of this book: If anyone adds anything to them, God will add to him the plagues described in this book. 19And if anyone takes words away from this book of prophecy, God will take away from him his share in the tree of life and in the holy city, which are described in this book.
He wins!
Now think about these two verses Revelation 22:18-19) You can't add on and yet you can't take away now look at this verse where John is told to seal the seven thunders
Revelation 10:4) And when the seven thunders had uttered their voices, I was about to write: and I heard a voice from heaven saying unto me, Seal up those things which the seven thunders uttered, and write them not.
Think about it and what these verses combined are saying. If one could not add on to the book, nor take away, couldn't it be feasible that the seven thunders are in revelation! ![[Eek!]](eek.gif)
Posted by Found in Him (Member # 7596) on
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I guess I'm not clear on what you are saying.
God said, "no" to seal it up.
?
Posted by Copper25 (Member # 7464) on
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quote:
Originally posted by Found in Him:
I guess I'm not clear on what you are saying.
God said, "no" to seal it up.
?
Revelation 22
18) For I testify unto every man that heareth the words of the prophecy of this book, If any man shall add unto these things, God shall add unto him the plagues that are written in this book:
19) And if any man shall take away from the words of the book of this prophecy, God shall take away his part out of the book of life, and out of the holy city, and from the things which are written in this book.
Now think about it, the seven thunders were not written direct down when John saw them and everything in revelation must come to pass. Seeing that no one can add to revelation, nor take away from it, as I said before but I will say it in a diffrent way, is it therefore possible that the seven thunders are hidden in the Book of Revelation?
Posted by Found in Him (Member # 7596) on
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To me If they are hidden then why did God say not to write them down?
I try to keep in mind as I read the scriptures The heart of the Father. God is love and seals or reveals for His own purposes and plan. I don't want to question His words.
To me we were warned not to add-- not to take away.
wouldn't comparing these verses and guessing that there might be a hidden message be adding?
Posted by Copper25 (Member # 7464) on
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Revelation 16:
18) And there were voices, and thunders, and lightnings; and there was a great earthquake, such as was not since men were upon the earth, so mighty an earthquake, and so great.
19) And the great city was divided into three parts, and the cities of the nations fell: and great Babylon came in remembrance before God, to give unto her the cup of the wine of the fierceness of his wrath
Revelation 11:
10) And they that dwell upon the earth shall rejoice over them, and make merry, and shall send gifts one to another; because these two prophets tormented them that dwelt on the earth.
11)And after three days and an half the spirit of life from God entered into them, and they stood upon their feet; and great fear fell upon them which saw them.
12) And they heard a great voice from heaven saying unto them, Come up hither. And they ascended up to heaven in a cloud; and their enemies beheld them.
13 )And the same hour was there a great earthquake , and the tenth part of the city fell, and in the earthquake were slain of men seven thousand: and the remnant were affrighted, and gave glory to the God of heaven.
Could it be that the same earthquake of great magnitude also is the same earthquake that occurs after the two prophets are taken up to heaven. If so thus it concludes that this is the same earthquake from two different points of view.
and even furthermore, Revelation 8:8) And the second angel sounded, and as it were a great mountain burning with fire was cast into the sea: and the third part of the sea became blood
Think about it, when an asteroid hits the earth, wouldn't it result in an huge brake the scale sort of earth quake, thus concluding that the great mountain burning with fire causes the earthquake right after the two prophets prophesy "a thousand two hundred and threescore days" as spoken of in Revelation 11:3! Think about it. This would therefore conclude that revelations has multiple view points for the same set of events and consider that it is written by God's Holy Spirit and the word tends to have a much deeper meaning then at first glance!
Posted by Found in Him (Member # 7596) on
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If is a very large small word here.
When God reveals a thing will there be an if?
Posted by bluefrog (Member # 7448) on
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FOUND IN HIM....Ref. the scriptures I posted out of Ezekiel 13...The only reason I posted them was because of the false prophets and the troubles that come at the end. Some of the issues in those scriptures relate to the end times, but I thought that the last part about God tearing the righteous out of the hands of the deceivers was interesting. He spoke of hail storms, whitewashing the facts, etc. That's all.
Posted by Found in Him (Member # 7596) on
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quote:
Originally posted by bluefrog:
FOUND IN HIM....Ref. the scriptures I posted out of Ezekiel 13...The only reason I posted them was because of the false prophets and the troubles that come at the end. Some of the issues in those scriptures relate to the end times, but I thought that the last part about God tearing the righteous out of the hands of the deceivers was interesting. He spoke of hail storms, whitewashing the facts, etc. That's all.
And here I thought you were a mid-tribber from that!
Read into that one wrong! oops, sorry!
Some strongly do not believe in the rapture and I really do like to pick on em. It anit nice but it's fun!
![[angel3]](graemlins/angel3.gif)
did I say that?
Posted by Copper25 (Member # 7464) on
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The fig tree, Israel, 1948, at the door... In a corrupt generation it is sad that so many stay in he dark and walk in it and choose to flee for the Light, the Life, and the Truth. Let's face it, be ready to stand 2 Corinthians 6:7) "By the word of truth, by the power of God, by the armour of righteousness on the right hand and on the left"
Isaiah 43:2) "When thou passest through the waters, I will be with thee; and through the rivers, they shall not overflow thee: when thou walkest through the fire, thou shalt not be burned; neither shall the flame kindle upon thee."
Posted by bluefrog (Member # 7448) on
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As for me...I'm gonna enjoy my righteousness.
Posted by Betty Louise (Member # 7175) on
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My daughter's Church does not believe in the rapture, but that is okay I love her anyway. Me, I pray every day for the rapture.
betty
Posted by oneinchrist (Member # 6532) on
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I also believe in the rapture, but I am just not convinced that the "great tribulation" comes after it. Jesus speaks of a time of "great tribulation" that precedes His coming in Matthew 24. Personally, I believe the great tribulation began long ago.......and when Jesus returns I am afraid that there will be no more time for repentance.
With love in Christ, Daniel
Posted by Found in Him (Member # 7596) on
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quote:
Originally posted by oneinchrist:
I also believe in the rapture, but I am just not convinced that the "great tribulation" comes after it. Jesus speaks of a time of "great tribulation" that precedes His coming in Matthew 24. Personally, I believe the great tribulation began long ago.......and when Jesus returns I am afraid that there will be no more time for repentance.
With love in Christ, Daniel
The Jewish nation will be brought to repentance in the tribulation period. God has not and will not forget them.
Zechariah 13
Ezekiel 20
Ezekiel 22
Jeremiah 30
Daniel 12
The Apostle Peter tells the Jewish nation that it will not see Jesus again until its people:
“Repent therefore and return, that your sins may be wiped away, in order that times of refreshing may come from the presence of the Lord; and that He may send Jesus, the Christ appointed for you, whom heaven must receive until the period of restoration of all things about which God spoke by the mouth of His holy prophets from ancient time” Acts 3:19- 21
I am studying this right now...
This scripture is interesting.1) Paul says to repent and return,2) That The Father may send Jesus,3) whom heaven must keep 4) until the restoration of all things-- which has been prophesied.
They must and will return to God. It is written.
Zechariah 12:10 (King James Version)
10And I will pour upon the house of David, and upon the inhabitants of Jerusalem, the spirit of grace and of supplications: and they shall look upon me whom they have pierced, and they shall mourn for him, as one mourneth for his only son, and shall be in bitterness for him, as one that is in bitterness for his firstborn.
If you study the scriptures I would like your input on these too. I would also like more scriptures on this. I find the Lord's love for the Jewish people INCREDIBLE! The bible says He is "jealous" over them-- I find that irresistible!
That's our Lord!
Posted by oneinchrist (Member # 6532) on
:
It is my understanding that some people think, based upon some of Paul words, that all jews will repent and be saved...........but I think that Revelation shows us that there are only a certain number of numbers that will be saved.
With love in Christ, Daniel
Posted by Found in Him (Member # 7596) on
:
quote:
Originally posted by oneinchrist:
It is my understanding that some people think, based upon some of Paul words, that all jews will repent and be saved...........but I think that Revelation shows us that there are only a certain number of numbers that will be saved.
With love in Christ, Daniel
God is not willing that any should perish-- the problem then lies with mans will right?
Posted by Found in Him (Member # 7596) on
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a "blindness" is upon the jewish people.
God will take that away.
Romans 11
The Remnant of Israel
1I ask then: Did God reject his people? By no means! I am an Israelite myself, a descendant of Abraham, from the tribe of Benjamin. 2God did not reject his people, whom he foreknew. Don't you know what the Scripture says in the passage about Elijah—how he appealed to God against Israel: 3"Lord, they have killed your prophets and torn down your altars; I am the only one left, and they are trying to kill me"[a]? 4And what was God's answer to him? "I have reserved for myself seven thousand who have not bowed the knee to Baal."[b] 5So too, at the present time there is a remnant chosen by grace. 6And if by grace, then it is no longer by works; if it were, grace would no longer be grace.[c]
7What then? What Israel sought so earnestly it did not obtain, but the elect did. The others were hardened, 8as it is written:
"God gave them a spirit of stupor,
eyes so that they could not see
and ears so that they could not hear,
to this very day."[d] 9And David says:
"May their table become a snare and a trap,
a stumbling block and a retribution for them.
10May their eyes be darkened so they cannot see,
and their backs be bent forever."[e]
Ingrafted Branches
11Again I ask: Did they stumble so as to fall beyond recovery? Not at all! Rather, because of their transgression, salvation has come to the Gentiles to make Israel envious. 12But if their transgression means riches for the world, and their loss means riches for the Gentiles, how much greater riches will their fullness bring!
13I am talking to you Gentiles. Inasmuch as I am the apostle to the Gentiles, I make much of my ministry 14in the hope that I may somehow arouse my own people to envy and save some of them. 15For if their rejection is the reconciliation of the world, what will their acceptance be but life from the dead? 16If the part of the dough offered as firstfruits is holy, then the whole batch is holy; if the root is holy, so are the branches.
17If some of the branches have been broken off, and you, though a wild olive shoot, have been grafted in among the others and now share in the nourishing sap from the olive root, 18do not boast over those branches. If you do, consider this: You do not support the root, but the root supports you. 19You will say then, "Branches were broken off so that I could be grafted in." 20Granted. But they were broken off because of unbelief, and you stand by faith. Do not be arrogant, but be afraid. 21For if God did not spare the natural branches, he will not spare you either.
22Consider therefore the kindness and sternness of God: sternness to those who fell, but kindness to you, provided that you continue in his kindness. Otherwise, you also will be cut off. 23And if they do not persist in unbelief, they will be grafted in, for God is able to graft them in again. 24After all, if you were cut out of an olive tree that is wild by nature, and contrary to nature were grafted into a cultivated olive tree, how much more readily will these, the natural branches, be grafted into their own olive tree!
All Israel Will Be Saved
25I do not want you to be ignorant of this mystery, brothers, so that you may not be conceited: Israel has experienced a hardening in part until the full number of the Gentiles has come in. 26And so all Israel will be saved, as it is written:
"The deliverer will come from Zion;
he will turn godlessness away from Jacob.
27And this is[f] my covenant with them
when I take away their sins."[g]
28As far as the gospel is concerned, they are enemies on your account; but as far as election is concerned, they are loved on account of the patriarchs, 29for God's gifts and his call are irrevocable. 30Just as you who were at one time disobedient to God have now received mercy as a result of their disobedience, 31so they too have now become disobedient in order that they too may now[h] receive mercy as a result of God's mercy to you. 32For God has bound all men over to disobedience so that he may have mercy on them all.
He will not forget them. We will all share in His mercy.
Posted by Copper25 (Member # 7464) on
:
quote:
Originally posted by oneinchrist:
It is my understanding that some people think, based upon some of Paul words, that all jews will repent and be saved...........but I think that Revelation shows us that there are only a certain number of numbers that will be saved.
With love in Christ, Daniel
Revelation 7:4) And I heard the number of them which were sealed: and there were sealed an hundred and forty and four thousand of all the tribes of the children of Israel.
Think about it, an 144,000 seal, but that is not the whole number. Why because look after the two prophets,
Revelation 11:13)And the same hour was there a great earthquake, and the tenth part of the city fell, and in the earthquake were slain of men seven thousand: and the remnant were affrighted, and gave glory to the God of heaven.
Now think about it, the seals on the 144,000 were right before the chaos. Meaning that those that were "affrighted, and gave glory to the God of heaven" were not part of the original 144,000 of the tribes that were first initially sealed, thus concluding that the real number is more then 144,000.
Posted by bluefrog (Member # 7448) on
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ONEINCHRIST...Subj: Proof that we are living in the last days.
I agree with you. I have found nothing to prove otherwise. This is my lifetime puzzle. Gotta make my travel plans don't ya know.
Posted by Copper25 (Member # 7464) on
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Think about it, look at these verses carefully
Revelation 14:1)And I looked, and, lo, a Lamb stood on the mount Sion, and with him an hundred forty and four thousand, having his Father's name written in their foreheads.
Revelation 14:4)These are they which were not defiled with women; for they are virgins. These are they which follow the Lamb whithersoever he goeth. These were redeemed from among men, being the firstfruits unto God and to the Lamb.
So unless all of those Israelites who are saved are only men, then how can there possibly be only 144,000?
Posted by bluefrog (Member # 7448) on
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COPPER 25...Sorry, I can't figure where you are goin with this or what the point is.
Yes, there were more than 144,000...
Rev 7:9 After this I beheld, and, lo a great multitude, which no man could number, of all nations, and kindreds, and people and tongure, stood before the throne, and before the Lamb, clothed with white robes, and palms in their hands.
In Rev 14 1-4 we are in heaven and they are all believers and the word of God in their heads. When it talks about their being virgins it is a figure of speech saying they are not polluted or will be polluted under the great religious system under antichrist in the coming days.
I've gotta go.
Posted by Copper25 (Member # 7464) on
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quote:
Originally posted by Copper25:
Think about it, look at these verses carefully
Revelation 14:1)And I looked, and, lo, a Lamb stood on the mount Sion, and with him an hundred forty and four thousand, having his Father's name written in their foreheads.
Revelation 14:4)These are they which were not defiled with women; for they are virgins. These are they which follow the Lamb whithersoever he goeth. These were redeemed from among men, being the firstfruits unto God and to the Lamb.
So unless all of those Israelites who are saved are only men, then how can there possibly be only 144,000?
Revelation 14:1)And I looked, and, lo, a Lamb stood on the mount Sion, and with him an hundred forty and four thousand, having his Father's name written in their foreheads.
Revelation 14:4)These are they which were not defiled with women; for they are virgins. These are they which follow the Lamb whithersoever he goeth. These were redeemed from among men, being the firstfruits unto God and to the Lamb.
So 144,000 all men
Now look back to this verses
Revelation 7
3)Saying, Hurt not the earth, neither the sea, nor the trees, till we have sealed the servants of our God in their foreheads.
4)And I heard the number of them which were sealed: and there were sealed an hundred and forty and four thousand of all the tribes of the children of Israel.
144,000 thousand, now are these two passages where there are 144,000 a coincidence? Could the elect reserved during the entire tribulation period only contain all men 144,000, and not a soul is gained in Israel the whole 7 years?
Revelation 7:3) Saying, Hurt not the earth, neither the sea, nor the trees, till we have sealed the servants of our God in their foreheads.
Think about it, servants, the word servants implicates that they are reserved for God's use. These are they that are used as instruments in spreading the gospel, being as prophets and evangelist. These are they that God has chosen to recruit and gain more people, they are his servants. Once again, there ministry is going to be lead by the leading of God to do his will, they will not just be sitting around inactive, nay, but I tell you that they will be spreading the truth and proclaiming the Lord and his salvation.
Posted by oneinchrist (Member # 6532) on
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Hi Found in Him,
Yes, I agree with you. I believe that everyone is given the same opportunity to be saved. The Holy Ghost is no respecter of persons. The unsaved are not unsaved because God is not willing to save them, no, rather it would be because they are unwilling to repent and believe on the Lord Jesus.
With love in Christ, Daniel
Posted by Eden (Member # 5728) on
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Hi, oneinchrist, you wrote quote:
Hi Found in Him,
Yes, I agree with you. I believe that everyone is given the same opportunity to be saved. The Holy Ghost is no respecter of persons. The unsaved are not unsaved because God is not willing to save them, no, rather it would be because they are unwilling to repent and believe on the Lord Jesus.
So what about the people who lived in India in 1000 B.C. or the people who lived in China in 1500 B.C., will they have "the same opportuntiy to be saved", and if so, how?
love, Eden
Posted by Copper25 (Member # 7464) on
:
quote:
Originally posted by Eden:
So what about the people who lived in India in 1000 B.C. or the people who lived in China in 1500 B.C., will they have "the same opportuntiy to be saved", and if so, how?
love, Eden [/QB]
Think about what you are saying and see if it makes sense, under the old covenant everyone still had the same opportunity to submit themselves to God just like all have the opportunity to submit to Christ. Is God a favor of persons? I think not. Even in the prophecies Isaiah was lead by the Spirit to call all the earth to seek the Lord God and live.
Isaiah 45:22) Look unto me, and be ye saved, all the ends of the earth: for I am God, and there is none else.
This was the calling for the whole earth, whether a person knows it or not, God has spoken through the prophets and the announcement was made during the period of the Old covenant and even before that, strangers roamed with Israel after they left Egypt and many joined there after, once again God is not a favor of persons, Look at your biblical history carefully.
Posted by Found in Him (Member # 7596) on
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quote:
Originally posted by Eden:
So what about the people who lived in India in 1000 B.C. or the people who lived in China in 1500 B.C., will they have "the same opportuntiy to be saved", and if so, how?
love, Eden[/QUOTE]
Why was Jesus in the heart of the earth for three days? It would have only taken him 2 seconds to obtain the keys of death and hell from satan. Did He visit Abraham's bossism and preach?
Did not God say that NONE would be justified by their works? All fleshly righteousness is a filthy rag.
ALL and I repeat ALL from the time of Adam until the last gentile is grafted into God's kingdom MUST kneel at the cross and accept God's Son Jesus to be worthy of heaven.
Moses and Elijah were the only ones I find from the old testament that were "taken" directly into God's heaven. why?
ALL must accept Jesus.
NO ONE is getting in any other way.
Posted by Found in Him (Member # 7596) on
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*bosom
thanks
Posted by WildB (Member # 2917) on
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quote:
Originally posted by Eden:
Hi, oneinchrist, you wrote quote:
Hi Found in Him,
Yes, I agree with you. I believe that everyone is given the same opportunity to be saved. The Holy Ghost is no respecter of persons. The unsaved are not unsaved because God is not willing to save them, no, rather it would be because they are unwilling to repent and believe on the Lord Jesus.
So what about the people who lived in India in 1000 B.C. or the people who lived in China in 1500 B.C., will they have "the same opportuntiy to be saved", and if so, how?
love, Eden
Rom.2
[13] (For not the hearers of the law are just before God, but the doers of the law shall be justified.
[14] For when the Gentiles, which have not the law, do by nature the things contained in the law, these, having not the law, are a law unto themselves:
[15] Which shew the work of the law written in their hearts, their conscience also bearing witness, and their thoughts the mean while accusing or else excusing one another;)
Posted by Found in Him (Member # 7596) on
:
quote:
Originally posted by Found in Him:
quote:
Originally posted by Eden:
So what about the people who lived in India in 1000 B.C. or the people who lived in China in 1500 B.C., will they have "the same opportuntiy to be saved", and if so, how?
love, Eden
Why was Jesus in the heart of the earth for three days? It would have only taken him 2 seconds to obtain the keys of death and hell from satan. Did He visit Abraham's bossism and preach?
Did not God say that NONE would be justified by their works? All fleshly righteousness is a filthy rag.
ALL and I repeat ALL from the time of Adam until the last gentile is grafted into God's kingdom MUST kneel at the cross and accept God's Son Jesus to be worthy of heaven.
Moses and Elijah were the only ones I find from the old testament that were "taken" directly into God's heaven. why?
ALL must accept Jesus.
NO ONE is getting in any other way. [/QUOTE]
Also Enoch disappeared as well--sorry, forgot him.
Posted by oneinchrist (Member # 6532) on
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Hi Eden,
I believe that Copper 25 answered the question you asked me...........showing that even in the time BC "justification" was still through faith........faith in God. Found in Him's post also may answer the question......what about those who may have never heard the word? ....yes, Jesus even preached to the spirits in prison before He rose up to God in heaven. Now we really see that God is undoubtedly no respecter of persons. Praise Him!
With love in Christ, Daniel
Posted by Found in Him (Member # 7596) on
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Sorry Daniel, I did not mean to jump ahead of you and answer. My tail-feathers get in a bunch when any question arises about Jesus being preached to all souls throughout all time.
The Father has so beautifully displayed His love for all of mankind throughout all ages -Through- His Son.
All things have been given to Jesus by The Father and my feathers greatly get messed up when Jesus is not unmistakeably glorified as the centerpiece of salvation for all men for all time.
I'm just an old Jesus bird I guess.
![[Roll Eyes]](rolleyes.gif)
Posted by Eden (Member # 5728) on
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Hi, Copper25, you wrote to Eden quote:
Isaiah 45:22) Look unto me, and be ye saved, all the ends of the earth: for I am God, and there is none else.
This was the calling for the whole earth, whether a person knows it or not, God has spoken through the prophets and the announcement was made during the period of the Old covenant and even before that, strangers roamed with Israel after they left Egypt and many joined there after ...
But you do realize that in 1000 B.C. and in 1500 B.C., the people in India and the people in China HAD NO IDEA THAT ISRAEL, and the Old Covenant, EVEN EXISTED.
Even the Bible says,
Romans 10:14
How then shall they call on Him in whom they have not believed? And how shall they believe in him of whom they have not heard? And how shall they hear without a preacher?
Romans 10:18
But I say, Have they not heard? Yes verily, their sound went into all the earth, and their words unto the ends of the world.
Even when Paul wrote Romans in the 1st century A.D., no apostles had preached the gospel in China, or in Papua New Guinea, and there are millions of people who have died historically who have never even heard of Israel's existence in the Middle East.
Or, are all these people supposed to get saved just from looking at the environment:
Romans 1:20
For the invisible things of him from the creation of the world are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even his eternal power and Godhead; so that they are without excuse.
But I personally don't know of anyone who came to Jesus just from looking at the environment, do you know anyone?
So it seems to me that Jesus at some point will have to give all the dead who have NEVER even heard of Israel an "equal opportunity to get saved", or not?
love, Eden
Posted by Copper25 (Member # 7464) on
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quote:
Originally posted by Eden:
Hi, Copper25, you wrote to Eden [QUOTE]Isaiah 45:22) Look unto me, and be ye saved, all the ends of the earth: for I am God, and there is none else.
So it seems to me that Jesus at some point will have to give all the dead who have NEVER even heard of Israel an "equal opportunity to get saved", or not?
love, Eden
Wait so you are saying that if someone died and they did not turn from there iniquity, that they should be given another chance after they are dead? Once again, is God a favor of persons? I think not. Is God a God of justice, I think so
Acts 17:29) Forasmuch then as we are the offspring of God, we ought not to think that the Godhead is like unto gold, or silver, or stone, graven by art and man's device.
Acts 17:30)"And the times of this ignorance God winked at"
But in history look what happen to the heathen that dwelt in evil and that got prophesized against and destroyed by the hand of God
also remember
Romans 1
21) Because that, when they knew God, they glorified him not as God, neither were thankful; but became vain in their imaginations, and their foolish heart was darkened.
22) Professing themselves to be wise, they became fools,
23) And changed the glory of the uncorruptible God into an image made like to corruptible man, and to birds, and fourfooted beasts, and creeping things.
24) Wherefore God also gave them up to uncleanness through the lusts of their own hearts, to dishonour their own bodies between themselves:
25) Who changed the truth of God into a lie, and worshipped and served the creature more than the Creator
Humans from the beginning were still held accountable for their actions
Hosea 4:6) "My people are destroyed for lack of knowledge: because thou hast rejected knowledge, I will also reject thee, that thou shalt be no priest to me: seeing thou hast forgotten the law of thy God, I will also forget thy children."
Now consider this, God's own people, his children of Israel were many destroyed when they submitted to the Golden calf near mount Sinai, many were destroyed by the plague when they tempted God in the wilderness, when he sent the multitude of quails, then how many died of the fiery flying serpents, now consider this, those were of his chosen nation, the people of whom the promise was derived to keep.
Also look at this verse
Genesis 18:20) And the LORD said, Because the cry of Sodom and Gomorrah is great, and because their sin is very grievous
God is a God of justice and as we know only a remnant will enter the kingdom of all people from the beginning of time. Most are going to end up in destruction and damnation as our Lord Jesus has spoken
Matthew 7:13) Enter ye in at the strait gate: for wide is the gate, and broad is the way, that leadeth to destruction, and many there be which go in thereat
So justice will be done and as far as ignorance goes odds don't look good for such because even those of his own people got destroyed. How much more the rest of the people in history?
Posted by Found in Him (Member # 7596) on
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Ephesians 4:8-10 (KJV) "Wherefore he saith, When he ascended up on high, he led captivity captive, and gave gifts unto men.(9) (Now that he ascended, what is it but that he also descended first into the lower parts of the earth? (10) He that descended is the same also that ascended up far above all heavens, that he might fill all things.)"
1 Peter 3:19 (KJV) "By which also he went and preached unto the spirits in prison;"
1 Peter 4:5-6 (KJV)
"Who shall give account to him that is ready to judge the quick and the dead. For this cause was the gospel preached also to them that are dead, that they might be judged according to men in the flesh, but live according to God in the spirit."
God doesn't leave anybody out-- I think He is real proud of His Son.
Jesus Christ, the Righteous One. 2He is the atoning sacrifice for our sins, and not only for ours but also for[a] the sins of the whole world.
6Jesus answered, "I am the way and the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me.
Posted by Eden (Member # 5728) on
:
Hi, Copper25, you wrote to Eden quote:
But in history look what happen to the heathen that dwelt in evil...
Do you suppose that they were greater sinners than us?
Luke 13
4 Or those eighteen, upon whom the tower in Siloam fell, and slew them, do you think that they were sinners above all men that dwelled in Jerusalem?
5 I tell you, No: but, except you repent, you shall all likewise perish.
But we are saved by the blood of Jesus because we were able to read the Word of God and we were preached to and we ended up believing for salvation.
Romans 5:12
Wherefore, as by one man sin entered into the world, and death by sin; and so death passed upon all men, for that all have sinned:
Romans 3:23
For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God;
In order for God not to be a respector of persons, don't all people who have ever lived have to have the same opportunity to save themselves?
The heathen are NOT more sinful than we were when we had our conversation among them, before our salvation, so if someone in the jungle in Amazonia in 700 B.C. never even heard of Israel and they died, shouldn't there be some provision for THEM to accept the offer of reconciliation thru Jesus?
love, Eden
Posted by Copper25 (Member # 7464) on
:
quote:
Originally posted by Eden:
Hi, Copper25, you wrote to Eden quote:
But in history look what happen to the heathen that dwelt in evil...
Do you suppose that they were greater sinners than us?
Luke 13
4 Or those eighteen, upon whom the tower in Siloam fell, and slew them, do you think that they were sinners above all men that dwelled in Jerusalem?
love, Eden
did I ever say that my brother? I simply laid down verses that I was led to lay down, when Christ said many, How many is many considering that Psalm 12:6) "The words of the LORD are pure words: as silver tried in a furnace of earth, purified seven times."
The fact is that God owes the human race nothing, absolutly nothing
Isaiah 45:9) Woe unto him that striveth with his Maker! Let the potsherd strive with the potsherds of the earth. Shall the clay say to him that fashioneth it, What makest thou? or thy work, He hath no hands?
Romans 9:21) "Hath not the potter power over the clay, of the same lump to make one vessel unto honour, and another unto dishonour?"
Romans 9:22-23)"What if God, willing to shew his wrath, and to make his power known, endured with much longsuffering the vessels of wrath fitted to destruction: And that he might make known the riches of his glory on the vessels of mercy, which he had afore prepared unto glory,"
Again, does not God do as he pleases. Look at pharoah of Moses' day. God raised him for such a purpose that he might show his power and wonders
Romans 9:17) "For the scripture saith unto Pharaoh, Even for this same purpose have I raised thee up, that I might shew my power in thee, and that my name might be declared throughout all the earth."
I say again, who and I mean who does God owe, He is the creator of us all
Ezekiel 18:4) "Behold, all souls are mine ; as the soul of the father, so also the soul of the son is mine: the soul that sinneth, it shall die."
So who does God owe a second chance to seeing that He owes none of us in the entire human race from the beginning of time anything?
Therefore as our Lord say before
Matthew 7:13) Enter ye in at the strait gate: for wide is the gate, and broad is the way, that leadeth to destruction, and many there be which go in thereat
because every soul is his and seeing that it is wrriten "many there be which go in thereat", who is man to say that he deserveth a second chance for I say onto you that all have sinned and the wages of sin is death.
Posted by becauseHElives (Member # 87) on
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Eden, I have ask myself those same question?
what I know, is only what I have learned from the scriptures that has been revealed to me by the Spirit...
I know Yahweh is love...
I know Yahweh is merciful....
I know Yahweh is long suffering....
I know Yahweh doesn't want any to perish....
I know Yahweh is a righteous Judge....
I know Yahweh examines and knows the heart of every man, woman, boy and girl....
I know none will be Judge unfairly on That Day...
I know none will have any excuse when they receive their just rewards....
Posted by WildB (Member # 2917) on
:
quote:
Originally posted by Found in Him:
quote:
Originally posted by Eden:
So what about the people who lived in India in 1000 B.C. or the people who lived in China in 1500 B.C., will they have "the same opportuntiy to be saved", and if so, how?
love, Eden
Moses and Elijah were the only ones I find from the old testament that were "taken" directly into God's heaven. why?
[/QUOTE]
Not Biblical.
The Book of Deuteronomy
Chapter 34
5 So Moses the servant of the LORD died there in the land of Moab, according to the word of the LORD.
6 And he buried him in a valley in the land of Moab, over against Bethpeor: but no man knoweth of his sepulchre unto this day.
Posted by Found in Him (Member # 7596) on
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Personally I believe Moses the was taken. The grave is no where to be found. Biblical? You decide. Jude speaks of a debate over the body of Moses.
I believe Moses and Elijah to be the two witnesses in the book of Revelation.
I promise you that I WILL keep my mouth shut over what I "believe" going forward!
that's biblical.
And that is all.
Posted by WildB (Member # 2917) on
:
quote:
Originally posted by Found in Him:
Personally I believe Moses the was taken. The grave is no where to be found. Biblical? You decide. Jude speaks of a debate over the body of Moses.
Not Biblical.
Jude speaks of a Angelic debate.
Jude.1
[9] Yet Michael the archangel, when contending with the devil he disputed about the body of Moses,
Posted by Found in Him (Member # 7596) on
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Over the body of Moses.
Just wanted to clarify that.
Posted by bluefrog (Member # 7448) on
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I have a thousand year layover marked on my calander.
Posted by Found in Him (Member # 7596) on
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You are exactly right bluefrog, it's not something to really debate over. I also pray to be on the first flight outta here via the rapture-- Thanks!
Posted by bluefrog (Member # 7448) on
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Speakin of Moses, did you know he started out as a basket case ? And speaking of Moses have you read the 10 commandments for Christians compared to the one the Catholics use?
Posted by Betty Louise (Member # 7175) on
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Are the Catholic Ten Commandments different?
betty
Posted by bluefrog (Member # 7448) on
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Yes, I will try to do it this way...I will do Ours in CAPS and Theirs in Upper and Lower Case.
1.THOU SHALT HAVE NO OTHER GODS BEFORE ME.
I am the Lord thy God. Thou shalt not have strange gods before Me.
2.YOU SHALL NOT MAKE FOR YOURSELF AN IDOL.
Thou shalt not take the name of the Lord thy God in vain. (note: You shall not make for yourself an idol, is left out completely)
3.YOU SHALL NOT TAKE THE NAME OF THE LORD YOUR GOD IN VAIN.
Remember that thou keep holy the Sabbath day.
4.REMEMBER THE SABBATH DAY TO KEEP IT HOLY.
Honor thy father and thy mother.
5.HONOR YOUR FATHER AND YOUR MOTHER.
Thou shalt not kill.
6.YOU SHALL NOT MURDER.
Thou shalt not commit adultery.
7.YOU SHALL NOT COMMIT ADULTERY.
Thou shalt not steal.
8.YOU SHALL NOT STEAL.
Thou shalt not bear false witness against thy neighbor.
9.YOU SHALL NOT GIVE FALSE TESTIMONY AGAINST YOUR NEIGHBOR.
Thou shalt not covet thy neighbor's wife.
10.YOU SHALL NOT COVET.
Thou shalt not covet thy neighbor's goods.
Also, I might mention that the Catholics changed the Sabath from Saturday to Sunday. Jesus never changed it. Protestants kept it..the Day of the Sun, from pagan religion.
Posted by Found in Him (Member # 7596) on
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Great! ![[mad2]](graemlins/mad2.gif)
-- Did Pope do that?
Posted by bluefrog (Member # 7448) on
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Yes, but don't ask me which one.
Posted by Eden (Member # 5728) on
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That's interesting, bluefrog. I never knew that. I see that No. 2 and Nos. 9 and 10 are involved in this shuffle, with 9 and 10 basically saying the same thing. velly intelesting.
love, Eden
Posted by bluefrog (Member # 7448) on
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When I talk to folks about the Sabbath being changed to Sunday it usually falls on deaf ears.
Did Jesus change it? I have a letter proving that the pope changed it and they are humored that we still use their sabbath.
The Seventh Day Churches sure are serious about it. There are Seventh Day Adventists, Baptists, Christians that I know of.
Posted by The Beauty of Holiness777 (Member # 7380) on
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Good post BecauseHelives!
Posted by Found in Him (Member # 7596) on
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Bluefrog...
When I talk to folks about the Sabbath being changed to Sunday it usually falls on deaf ears.
Did Jesus change it? I have a letter proving that the pope changed it and they are humored that we still use their sabbath.
The Seventh Day Churches sure are serious about it. There are Seventh Day Adventists, Baptists, Christians that I know of.[/QUOTE]
Can you explain this about the Sabbath? What's in the letter? I seen where you wrote about the 10 commandments being changed-- The Pope must think he has authority to do such things?
Posted by Eden (Member # 5728) on
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Well, it may in fact be that the early Christians themselves moved their memorial day to Sunday which was the first day of the week, seeing as how the Sabbath was celebrated by the (unsaved) Judaic community.
And the first day of the week, or Sunday, was also the day that our Lord rose from the dead, so that the Christians naturally commemorated Sunday or the first day of the week as their day of coming together for the "new creatures in Christ Jesus":
2 Corinthians 5:17
Therefore if any man be in Christ, he is a new creature: old things are passed away; behold, all things are become new.
Galatians 6:15
For in Christ Jesus neither circumcision avails anything, nor uncircumcision, but a new creature.
Mark 16:9
Now when Jesus was risen early the first day of the week, he appeared first to Mary Magdalene, out of whom he had cast seven devils.
Acts 20:7
And upon the first day of the week when the disciples came together to break bread, Paul preached unto them, ready to depart on the next day; and he continued his speech until midnight.
So I think we need to be less hasty to blame the Catholic church for Christians celebrating on the first day of the week, or Sunday.
love, Eden
Posted by bluefrog (Member # 7448) on
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The Pope believes that he is the replacement for Jesus while He is gone. (yes, gone) and thusly, can do whatever he dang well pleases, and does.
I will hunt down the letter about the Sabbath and post it for ya.
Also interesting is what is inscribed on the popes hat, and relates to numbers 666. I showed you where the scriptures say never call another Father. Why do they do this ?
Posted by bluefrog (Member # 7448) on
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EDEN...scriptures that speak about thing or people becoming new have nothing to do with the Sabbath, and you don't just change the Sabbath day because of some historical changes on your own do you? The 4th Commandment says to remember the sabbath and keep it holy. We have no authority, regardless of what the reason is, to change it.
I did find one note on the subject:
"A Doctrinal Catechism," (Catholic) page 174, has the following question and answer:
Question: Have you any other way of proving that the Church has power to institute festivals of precept?"
Answer: Had she not such power..she could not have substituted the observance of Sunday, the first day of the week, for Saturday, the seventh day, a change for which there is no Scriptural authority."
Posted by Copper25 (Member # 7464) on
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Constantine, look up the king/ruler of an empire Constantine. He was responsible for changing the worship day to Sunday to align with the sun god because many in his empire had those false practices.
Posted by bluefrog (Member # 7448) on
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OK, I found the letter about the Sabbath.
Letter of inquiry:
Thomaston, Ga
May 22, 1954
Pope Pius XII, Rome, Italy
Dear Sir;
Is the accusation true, that Protestants accuse you of? They say you changed the Seventh Day Sabbath to the, so-called Christian Sunday: Identical with the First Day of the week. If so, when did you make the change, and by what authority?
Yours very truly,
J.L. Day
The Reply:
THE CATHOLIC EXTENSION MAGAZINE
180 Wabash Avel, Chicago, Illinois
(Under the Blessing of Pope Pius XII)
Dear Sir;
Regarding the change from the observance of the Jewish Sabbath to the Christian Sunday, I wish to draw your attention to the facts:
(1) That Protestants, who accept the Bible as the only rule of faith and religion, should by all means go back to the observance of the Sabbath. The fact that they do not, but on the contrary observe Sunday, stultifies them in the eyes of every thinking man.
(2)We Catholics do not accept the Bible as the only rule of faith. Besides the Bible we have the living Church, as a rule to guide us. We say, this Church instituted by Christ, to teach and guide men through life, has the right to change the Ceremonial laws of the Old Testament and hence, we accept her change of the Sabbath to Sunday. We frankly say, "yes", the Church made this change, made this law, as she made many other laws, for instance, the Friday Abstinence, the unmarried priesthood, the laws concerning mixed marriages, the regulation of Catholic marriages, and a thousand other laws.
(3) We also say that of all Protestants, the
Seventh-day adventists are the only group that reason correctly and are consistent with their teachings. It is always somewhat laughable to see the Protestant Churches, in pulpit and legislature, demand the observance of Sundays of which there is nothing in the Bible.
With best wishes
Peter R. Tramer, Editor
That's it for the letter.
In Vol 2, page 316 of The History of the Christian Councils it says:
The Council of Laodicea, AD 364, passed a law (Canon XXIX) which decreed: "Christians shall not Judaize and be idle on Saturday but shall work on that day; but the Lord's day they shall especially honor, and as being Christians, shall, if possible do no work on that day. If, however, they are found Judaizing, they shall be shut out from Christ"
So, it appears that the Christians were still worshiping on Saturday over 300 years after Christs ascension to heaven. The point was they hated the Jews and it was very hard to see the change made so they started killing the Christians and took away the right to any written word or gatherings. It's all recorded.
Since God gave the commandments the only changes were made by man without authority.
Posted by Found in Him (Member # 7596) on
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eeeeeeewwww! Do you know that reading his words makes me want to go take a bath? I'm serious!
quote:
(2)We Catholics do not accept the Bible as the only rule of faith. Besides the Bible we have the living Church, as a rule to guide us.
Really? Won't they be surprised to hear that faith comes from hearing-- hearing from the word of God? -- um, pretty sure that if they don't have the faith part-- whooz church guides them? ewe!
quote:
We say, this Church instituted by Christ, to teach and guide men through life, has the right to change the Ceremonial laws of the Old Testament and hence, we accept her change of the Sabbath to Sunday.
Change the laws of the old testament? Really? Did they go to the mountain top and get those changes from God? I would not want to be the men that have decided such things and lead others astray by such actions!
I won't comment my thoughts on the unmarried priesthood...ewe, ewe, ewe!
It makes me feel dirty reading his words!
I'm gonna read up on this stuff. I know my son told me one time that the Pope's "throne" has an up-side down cross on it???
What a mess!
Posted by Found in Him (Member # 7596) on
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quote:
If, however, they are found Judaizing, they shall be shut out from Christ"
Really?
Scary! Scary to even think such a thing, let alone say it.
Posted by Eden (Member # 5728) on
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FoundinHim wrote quote:
eeeeeeewwww! Do you know that reading his words makes me want to go take a bath?
With all due respect, you should really take a bath more frequently than just when you are motivated by these words, don't you think?
But maybe that is PROOF THAT WE ARE LIVING IN THE LAST DAYS!!
"Oh beautiful, for spacious skies..."
love, Eden
Posted by Found in Him (Member # 7596) on
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Strike two Eden! I'm still gonna like you!
Posted by bluefrog (Member # 7448) on
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A pastor who was doing missionary work told me that he was in Africa where they know nothing about deodorant and he had a group of about 2100 in a closed in building and it was hot. He said it was pretty rank. But when he said "Everybody raise your hands and praise the lord" he almost died.
Posted by Eden (Member # 5728) on
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bluefrog wrote quote:
A pastor who was doing missionary work told me that he was in Africa where they know nothing about deodorant...
And probably no soap and no toothpaste and no washed clothes either! Those were the good o' days, I tell you...
love, Eden
Posted by Found in Him (Member # 7596) on
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shhhhhhhh, now, quit tellin everybody my personal hygiene habits! ![[Razz]](tongue.gif)
Posted by bluefrog (Member # 7448) on
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Hey Dog, I thought that was you. ![[pound]](graemlins/pound.gif)
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