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Is Jesus God?

I. Who created the heavens and the earth?

A. God

1. Genesis 1:1 In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth.
2. Psalms 19:1 The heavens declare the glory of God; And the firmament shows His
handiwork.
3. Psalms 33:6 By the word of the LORD the heavens were made, And all the host of
them by the breath of His mouth.

B. Jesus

1. John 1:1-3 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word
was God. 2 He was in the beginning with God. 3 All things were made through Him, and
without Him nothing was made that was made.
2. Colossians 1:13-17 He has delivered us from the power of darkness and conveyed us
into the kingdom of the Son of His love, 14 in whom we have redemption through His
blood, the forgiveness of sins. 15 He is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn over
all creation. 16 For by Him all things were created that are in heaven and that are on
earth, visible and invisible, whether thrones or dominions or principalities or powers. All
things were created through Him and for Him. 17 And He is before all things, and in Him
all things consist.
3. Hebrews 1:3-10 who being the brightness of His glory and the express image of His
person, and upholding all things by the word of His power, when He had by Himself
purged our sins, sat down at the right hand of the Majesty on high, 4 having become so
much better than the angels, as He has by inheritance obtained a more excellent name
than they. 5 For to which of the angels did He ever say: "You are My Son, Today I have
begotten You"? And again: "I will be to Him a Father, And He shall be to Me a Son"? 6 But
when He again brings the firstborn into the world, He says: "Let all the angels of God
worship Him." 7 And of the angels He says: "Who makes His angels spirits And His
ministers a flame of fire." 8 But to the Son He says: "Your throne, O God, is forever and
ever; A scepter of righteousness is the scepter of Your Kingdom. 9 You have loved
righteousness and hated lawlessness; Therefore God, Your God, has anointed You With
the oil of gladness more than Your companions." 10 And: "You, LORD, in the beginning
laid the foundation of the earth, And the heavens are the work of Your hands.

II. Who is God?

A. God

1. Deuteronomy 6:4 "Hear, O Israel: The LORD our God, the LORD is one!
2. John 17:3 "And this is eternal life, that they may know You, the only true God, and
Jesus Christ whom You have sent.
3. 1 Timothy 2:5 For there is one God and one Mediator between God and men, the Man
Christ Jesus,
4. Isaiah 43:10 "You are My witnesses," says the LORD, "And My servant whom I have
chosen, That you may know and believe Me, And understand that I am He. Before Me
there was no God formed, Nor shall there be after Me.
5. Jude 1:25 To God our Savior, Who alone is wise, Be glory and majesty, Dominion and
power, Both now and forever. Amen.

B. Jesus

1. 1 John 5:20 And we know that the Son of God has come and has given us an
understanding, that we may know Him who is true; and we are in Him who is true, in His
Son Jesus Christ. This is the true God and eternal life.
2. Hebrews 1:8 But to the Son He says: "Your throne, O God, is forever and ever; A
scepter of righteousness is the scepter of Your Kingdom.
3. Isaiah 9:6 For unto us a child is born, unto us a son is given: and the government shall
be upon his shoulder: and his name shall be called Wonderful, Counsellor, The mighty
God, The everlasting Father, The Prince of Peace.

III. Who is the Lord of lords?

A. God

1. Deuteronomy 10:17 "For the LORD your God is God of gods and Lord of lords, the great
God, mighty and awesome, who shows no partiality nor takes a bribe.
2. Psalms 136:1-4 O give thanks unto the LORD; for he is good: for his mercy endureth
for ever. 2 O give thanks unto the God of gods: for his mercy endureth for ever. 3 O give
thanks to the Lord of lords: for his mercy endureth for ever. 4 To him who alone doeth
great wonders: for his mercy endureth for ever.

B. Jesus

1. Revelation 17:14 "These will make war with the Lamb, and the Lamb will overcome
them, for He is Lord of lords and King of kings; and those who are with Him are called,
chosen, and faithful."

IV. Who is the Savior?

A. God

1. Isaiah 43:11 I, even I, am the LORD, And besides Me there is no savior.
2. 1 Timothy 2:3 For this is good and acceptable in the sight of God our Savior,
3. Jude 1:25 To God our Savior, Who alone is wise, Be glory and majesty, Dominion and
power, Both now and forever. Amen.

B. Jesus

1. Titus 2:13 looking for the blessed hope and glorious appearing of our great God and
Savior Jesus Christ,
2. 2 Peter 1:11 for so an entrance will be supplied to you abundantly into the everlasting
kingdom of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ.
3. 1 John 4:14 And we have seen and testify that the Father has sent the Son as Savior
of the world.

V. Who is I AM?

A. God

1. Exodus 3:14 And God said to Moses, "I AM WHO I AM." And He said, "Thus you shall
say to the children of Israel, 'I AM has sent me to you.'"

B. Jesus

1. John 8:58 Jesus said to them, "Most assuredly, I say to you, before Abraham was, I
AM."

VI. Who is the Holy One?

A. God

1. Isaiah 48:17 Thus says the LORD, your Redeemer, The Holy One of Israel: "I am the
LORD your God, Who teaches you to profit, Who leads you by the way you should go.
2. Psalms 89:18 For the LORD is our defence; and the Holy One of Israel is our king.
3. Isaiah 43:15 I am the LORD, your Holy One, the creator of Israel, your King.
4. Isaiah 10:20 And it shall come to pass in that day, that the remnant of Israel, and
such as are escaped of the house of Jacob, shall no more again stay upon him that
smote them; but shall stay upon the LORD, the Holy One of Israel, in truth.
5. Isaiah 17:7 At that day shall a man look to his Maker, and his eyes shall have respect
to the Holy One of Israel.
6. Isaiah 29:19 The meek also shall increase their joy in the LORD, and the poor among
men shall rejoice in the Holy One of Israel.

B. Jesus

1. Mark 1:24 Saying, Let us alone; what have we to do with thee, thou Jesus of
Nazareth? art thou come to destroy us? I know thee who thou art, the Holy One of God.
2. Acts 2:27 Because thou wilt not leave my soul in hell, neither wilt thou suffer thine
Holy One to see corruption.
3. Acts 3:14-15 "But you denied the Holy One and the Just, and asked for a murderer to
be granted to you, 15 "and killed the Prince of life, whom God raised from the dead, of
which we are witnesses.

VII. Who is the Shepherd?

A. God

1. Psalms 23:1 A Psalm of David. The LORD is my shepherd; I shall not want.
2. Ezekiel 34:11-12 For thus saith the Lord GOD; Behold, I, even I, will both search my
sheep, and seek them out. 12 As a shepherd seeketh out his flock in the day that he is
among his sheep that are scattered; so will I seek out my sheep, and will deliver them
out of all places where they have been scattered in the cloudy and dark day.

B. Jesus

1. Matthew 25:31-32 When the Son of man shall come in his glory, and all the holy
angels with him, then shall he sit upon the throne of his glory: 32 And before him shall be
gathered all nations: and he shall separate them one from another, as a shepherd
divideth his sheep from the goats:
2. John 10:11,14 I am the good shepherd: the good shepherd giveth his life for the
sheep. 14 I am the good shepherd, and know my sheep, and am known of mine.

VII. Who raised Jesus from the dead?

A. God

1. Romans 10:9 that if you confess with your mouth the Lord Jesus and believe in your
heart that God has raised Him from the dead, you will be saved.

B. Jesus

1. John 2:19 Jesus answered and said to them, "Destroy this temple, and in three days I
will raise it up."

VIII. Who shed His blood for the church?

A. God

1. Acts 20:28 "Therefore take heed to yourselves and to all the flock, among which the
Holy Spirit has made you overseers, to shepherd the church of God which He purchased
with His own blood.

B. Jesus

1. 1 Peter 1:19 but with the precious blood of Christ, as of a lamb without blemish and
without spot.
2. Hebrews 13:12 Therefore Jesus also, that He might sanctify the people with His own
blood, suffered outside the gate.
3. Colossians 1:14 in whom we have redemption through His blood, the forgiveness of
sins.

IX. Who is to be worshipped?

A. God

1. Exodus 34:14 '(for you shall worship no other god, for the LORD, whose name is
Jealous, is a jealous God),
2. Deuteronomy 30:16-17 "in that I command you today to love the LORD your God, to
walk in His ways, and to keep His commandments, His statutes, and His judgments, that
you may live and multiply; and the LORD your God will bless you in the land which you go
to possess. 17 "But if your heart turns away so that you do not hear, and are drawn
away, and worship other gods and serve them,
3. 2 Chronicles 7:19 "But if you turn away and forsake My statutes and My
commandments which I have set before you, and go and serve other gods, and worship
them,
4. Matthew 4:9-10 And he said to Him, "All these things I will give You if You will fall
down and worship me." 10 Then Jesus said to him, "Away with you, Satan! For it is
written, 'You shall worship the LORD your God, and Him only you shall serve.'"

B. Jesus

1. Matthew 2:2 saying, "Where is He who has been born King of the Jews? For we have
seen His star in the East and have come to worship Him."
2. Hebrews 1:6 But when He again brings the firstborn into the world, He says: "Let all
the angels of God worship Him."
3. John 9:35-38 Jesus heard that they had cast him out; and when He had found him, He
said to him, "Do you believe in the Son of God?" 36 He answered and said, "Who is He,
Lord, that I may believe in Him?" 37 And Jesus said to him, "You have both seen Him and
it is He who is talking with you." 38 Then he said, "Lord, I believe!" And he worshipped
Him.

C. Who is not to be worshipped?

1. Acts 10:25-26 As Peter was coming in, Cornelius met him and fell down at his feet and
worshiped him. 26 But Peter lifted him up, saying, "Stand up; I myself am also a man."
2. Revelation 19:10 And I fell at his feet to worship him. But he said to me, "See that you
do not do that! I am your fellow servant, and of your brethren who have the testimony
of Jesus. Worship God! For the testimony of Jesus is the spirit of prophecy."
3. Revelation 22:8-9 Now I, John, saw and heard these things. And when I heard and
saw, I fell down to worship before the feet of the angel who showed me these things. 9
Then he said to me, "See that you do not do that. For I am your fellow servant, and of
your brethren the prophets, and of those who keep the words of this book. Worship
God."

X. Who is the First and the Last?

A. God

1. Isaiah 44:6 Thus saith the LORD the King of Israel, and his redeemer the LORD of
hosts; I am the first, and I am the last; and beside me there is no God.
2. Revelation 21:6-7 And he said unto me, It is done. I am Alpha and Omega, the
beginning and the end. I will give unto him that is athirst of the fountain of the water of
life freely. 7 He that overcometh shall inherit all things; and I will be his God, and he shall
be my son.

B. Jesus

1. Revelation 1:10-18 I was in the Spirit on the Lord's day, and heard behind me a great
voice, as of a trumpet, 11 Saying, I am Alpha and Omega, the first and the last: and,
What thou seest, write in a book, and send it unto the seven churches which are in Asia;
unto Ephesus, and unto Smyrna, and unto Pergamos, and unto Thyatira, and unto Sardis,
and unto Philadelphia, and unto Laodicea. 12 And I turned to see the voice that spake
with me. And being turned, I saw seven golden candlesticks; 13 And in the midst of the
seven candlesticks one like unto the Son of man, clothed with a garment down to the
foot, and girt about the paps with a golden girdle. 14 His head and his hairs were white
like wool, as white as snow; and his eyes were as a flame of fire; 15 And his feet like
unto fine brass, as if they burned in a furnace; and his voice as the sound of many
waters. 16 And he had in his right hand seven stars: and out of his mouth went a sharp
twoedged sword: and his countenance was as the sun shineth in his strength. 17 And
when I saw him, I fell at his feet as dead. And he laid his right hand upon me, saying
unto me, Fear not; I am the first and the last: 18 I am he that liveth, and was dead;
and, behold, I am alive for evermore, Amen; and have the keys of hell and of death.
2. Revelation 2:8 And unto the angel of the church in Smyrna write; These things saith
the first and the last, which was dead, and is alive;

XI. Who is the Husband?

A. God

1. Jeremiah 3:14 Turn, O backsliding children, saith the LORD; for I am married unto you:
and I will take you one of a city, and two of a family, and I will bring you to Zion:
2. Jeremiah 3:20 Surely as a wife treacherously departeth from her husband, so have ye
dealt treacherously with me, O house of Israel, saith the LORD.
3. Jeremiah 31:32 Not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the
day that I took them by the hand to bring them out of the land of Egypt; which my
covenant they brake, although I was an husband unto them, saith the LORD:
4. Isaiah 54:5 For thy Maker is thine husband; the LORD of hosts is his name; and thy
Redeemer the Holy One of Israel; The God of the whole earth shall he be called.

B. Jesus

1. Romans 7:4 Wherefore, my brethren, ye also are become dead to the law by the body
of Christ; that ye should be married to another, even to him who is raised from the dead,
that we should bring forth fruit unto God.
2. 2 Corinthians 11:2 For I am jealous over you with godly jealousy: for I have espoused
you to one husband, that I may present you as a chaste virgin to Christ.
3. Ephesians 5:22-33
4. Revelation 21:9 And there came unto me one of the seven angels which had the
seven vials full of the seven last plagues, and talked with me, saying, Come hither, I will
show thee the bride, the Lamb's wife.

XII. Who is the Rock?

A. God

1. Deuteronomy 32:3-4 Because I will publish the name of the LORD: ascribe ye
greatness unto our God. 4 He is the Rock, his work is perfect: for all his ways are
judgment: a God of truth and without iniquity, just and right is he.
2. 1 Samuel 2:2 There is none holy as the LORD: for there is none beside thee: neither is
there any rock like our God.
3. 2 Samuel 22:2 And he said, The LORD is my rock, and my fortress, and my deliverer;
4. 2 Samuel 22:32 For who is God, save the LORD? and who is a rock, save our God?
5. Psalms 28:1 A Psalm of David. Unto thee will I cry, O LORD my rock; be not silent to
me: lest, if thou be silent to me, I become like them that go down into the pit.
6. Psalms 42:9 I will say unto God my rock, Why hast thou forgotten me? why go I
mourning because of the oppression of the enemy?
7. Psalms 62:1-2 To the chief Musician, to Jeduthun, A Psalm of David. Truly my soul
waiteth upon God: from him cometh my salvation. 2 He only is my rock and my salvation;
he is my defence; I shall not be greatly moved.
8. Psalms 62:6-7 He only is my rock and my salvation: he is my defence; I shall not be
moved. 7 In God is my salvation and my glory: the rock of my strength, and my refuge, is
in God.

B. Jesus

1. Matthew 16:18 And I say also unto thee, That thou art Peter, and upon this rock I will
build my church; and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it.
2. Romans 9:33 As it is written, Behold, I lay in Sion a stumblingstone and rock of
offence: and whosoever believeth on him shall not be ashamed.
3. 1 Corinthians 10:4 And did all drink the same spiritual drink: for they drank of that
spiritual Rock that followed them: and that Rock was Christ.

XIII. Who is the King of Israel?

A. God

1. Isaiah 44:6 Thus saith the LORD the King of Israel, and his redeemer the LORD of
hosts; I am the first, and I am the last; and beside me there is no God.
2. Zephaniah 3:15 The LORD hath taken away thy judgments, he hath cast out thine
enemy: the king of Israel, even the LORD, is in the midst of thee: thou shalt not see evil
any more.

B. Jesus

1. Matthew 27:42 He saved others; himself he cannot save. If he be the King of Israel,
let him now come down from the cross, and we will believe him.
2. Mark 15:32 Let Christ the King of Israel descend now from the cross, that we may see
and believe. And they that were crucified with him reviled him.
3. John 1:48-49 Nathanael saith unto him, Whence knowest thou me? Jesus answered
and said unto him, Before that Philip called thee, when thou wast under the fig tree, I
saw thee. 49 Nathanael answered and saith unto him, Rabbi, thou art the Son of God;
thou art the King of Israel.
4. John 12:12-15 On the next day much people that were come to the feast, when they
heard that Jesus was coming to Jerusalem, 13 Took branches of palm trees, and went
forth to meet him, and cried, Hosanna: Blessed is the King of Israel that cometh in the
name of the Lord. 14 And Jesus, when he had found a young *** , sat thereon; as it is
written, 15 Fear not, daughter of Sion: behold, thy King cometh, sitting on an *** 's colt.
5. Matthew 27:11 And Jesus stood before the governor: and the governor asked him,
saying, Art thou the King of the Jews? And Jesus said unto him, Thou sayest.
6. Matthew 27:29 And when they had platted a crown of thorns, they put it upon his
head, and a reed in his right hand: and they bowed the knee before him, and mocked
him, saying, Hail, King of the Jews!
7. John 19:19-21 And Pilate wrote a title, and put it on the cross. And the writing was,
JESUS OF NAZARETH THE KING OF THE JEWS. 20 This title then read many of the Jews:
for the place where Jesus was crucified was nigh to the city: and it was written in
Hebrew, and Greek, and Latin. 21 Then said the chief priests of the Jews to Pilate, Write
not, The King of the Jews; but that he said, I am King of the Jews.

XIV. Who is the King of the earth?

A. God

1. Psalms 47:2 For the LORD most high is terrible; he is a great King over all the earth.
2. Psalms 47:7 For God is the King of all the earth: sing ye praises with understanding.
3. Jeremiah 10:6-7 Forasmuch as there is none like unto thee, O LORD; thou art great,
and thy name is great in might. 7 Who would not fear thee, O King of nations? for to
thee doth it appertain: forasmuch as among all the wise men of the nations, and in all
their kingdoms, there is none like unto thee.
4. Daniel 7:27 And the kingdom and dominion, and the greatness of the kingdom under
the whole heaven, shall be given to the people of the saints of the most High, whose
kingdom is an everlasting kingdom, and all dominions shall serve and obey him.
5. Zechariah 14:9 And the LORD shall be king over all the earth: in that day shall there
be one LORD, and his name one.
6. Zechariah 14:16-17 And it shall come to pass, that every one that is left of all the
nations which came against Jerusalem shall even go up from year to year to worship the
King, the LORD of hosts, and to keep the feast of tabernacles. 17 And it shall be, that
whoso will not come up of all the families of the earth unto Jerusalem to worship the
King, the LORD of hosts, even upon them shall be no rain.
7. 2 Thessalonians 1:5 Which is a manifest token of the righteous judgment of God, that
ye may be counted worthy of the kingdom of God, for which ye also suffer:
8. Romans 14:17 For the kingdom of God is not meat and drink; but righteousness, and
peace, and joy in the Holy Ghost.
9. 1 Corinthians 6:9-10 Know ye not that the unrighteous shall not inherit the kingdom of
God? Be not deceived: neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate,
nor abusers of themselves with mankind, 10 Nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards,
nor revilers, nor extortioners, shall inherit the kingdom of God.

B. Jesus

1. Ephesians 5:5 For this ye know, that no whoremonger, nor unclean person, nor
covetous man, who is an idolater, hath any inheritance in the kingdom of Christ and of
God.
2. Colossians 1:13 Who hath delivered us from the power of darkness, and hath
translated us into the kingdom of his dear Son:
3. 2 Timothy 4:1 I charge thee therefore before God, and the Lord Jesus Christ, who
shall judge the quick and the dead at his appearing and his kingdom;
4. Hebrews 1:8 But unto the Son he saith, Thy throne, O God, is for ever and ever: a
sceptre of righteousness is the sceptre of thy kingdom.
5. 2 Peter 1:11 For so an entrance shall be ministered unto you abundantly into the
everlasting kingdom of our Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ.
6. Revelation 1:9 I John, who also am your brother, and companion in tribulation, and in
the kingdom and patience of Jesus Christ, was in the isle that is called Patmos, for the
word of God, and for the testimony of Jesus Christ.
7. Revelation 11:15 And the seventh angel sounded; and there were great voices in
heaven, saying, The kingdoms of this world are become the kingdoms of our Lord, and of
his Christ; and he shall reign for ever and ever. (Ephesians 4:5 One Lord, one faith, one
baptism)

a. Romans 5:21 That as sin hath reigned unto death, even so might grace reign through
righteousness unto eternal life by Jesus Christ our Lord.
b. Acts 11:17 Forasmuch then as God gave them the like gift as he did unto us, who
believed on the Lord Jesus Christ; what was I, that I could withstand God?
c. Acts 15:11 But we believe that through the grace of the Lord Jesus Christ we shall be
saved, even as they.

XV. Who is the King of kings?

A. God

1. Daniel 2:47 The king answered unto Daniel, and said, Of a truth it is, that your God is
a God of gods, and a Lord of kings, and a revealer of secrets, seeing thou couldest
reveal this secret.

B. Jesus

1. 1 Timothy 6:14-15 That thou keep this commandment without spot, unrebukeable,
until the appearing of our Lord Jesus Christ: 15 Which in his times he shall show, who is
the blessed and only Potentate, the King of kings, and Lord of lords;
2. Revelation 17:14 These shall make war with the Lamb, and the Lamb shall overcome
them: for he is Lord of lords, and King of kings: and they that are with him are called,
and chosen, and faithful.
3. Revelation 19:13-16 And he was clothed with a vesture dipped in blood: and his name
is called The Word of God. 14 And the armies which were in heaven followed him upon
white horses, clothed in fine linen, white and clean. 15 And out of his mouth goeth a
sharp sword, that with it he should smite the nations: and he shall rule them with a rod
of iron: and he treadeth the winepress of the fierceness and wrath of Almighty God. 16
And he hath on his vesture and on his thigh a name written, KING OF KINGS, AND LORD
OF LORDS.

XVI. Who is the true God?

A. God

1. Jeremiah 10:10 But the LORD is the true God, he is the living God, and an everlasting
king: at his wrath the earth shall tremble, and the nations shall not be able to abide his
indignation.
2. John 17:3 And this is life eternal, that they might know thee the only true God, and
Jesus Christ, whom thou hast sent.

B. Jesus

1. 1 John 5:20 And we know that the Son of God is come, and hath given us an
understanding, that we may know him that is true, and we are in him that is true, even
in his Son Jesus Christ. This is the true God, and eternal life.

XVII. To Whom is glory to be given?

A. God

1. Isaiah 42:8 I am the LORD: that is my name: and my glory will I not give to another,
neither my praise to graven images.
2. Isaiah 48:11 For mine own sake, even for mine own sake, will I do it: for how should
my name be polluted? and I will not give my glory unto another.
3. Malachi 2:2 If ye will not hear, and if ye will not lay it to heart, to give glory unto my
name, saith the LORD of hosts, I will even send a curse upon you, and I will curse your
blessings: yea, I have cursed them already, because ye do not lay it to heart.
4. Revelation 7:9-12 After this I beheld, and, lo, a great multitude, which no man could
number, of all nations, and kindreds, and people, and tongues, stood before the throne,
and before the Lamb, clothed with white robes, and palms in their hands; 10 And cried
with a loud voice, saying, Salvation to our God which sitteth upon the throne, and unto
the Lamb. 11 And all the angels stood round about the throne, and about the elders and
the four beasts, and fell before the throne on their faces, and worshipped God, 12
Saying, Amen: Blessing, and glory, and wisdom, and thanksgiving, and honour, and
power, and might, be unto our God for ever and ever. Amen.
5. Revelation 14:6-7 And I saw another angel fly in the midst of heaven, having the
everlasting gospel to preach unto them that dwell on the earth, and to every nation, and
kindred, and tongue, and people, 7 Saying with a loud voice, Fear God, and give glory to
him; for the hour of his judgment is come: and worship him that made heaven, and earth,
and the sea, and the fountains of waters.

B. Jesus

1. Matthew 19:28 And Jesus said unto them, Verily I say unto you, That ye which have
followed me, in the regeneration when the Son of man shall sit in the throne of his glory,
ye also shall sit upon twelve thrones, judging the twelve tribes of Israel.
2. Matthew 25:31 When the Son of man shall come in his glory, and all the holy angels
with him, then shall he sit upon the throne of his glory:
3. Luke 2:32 A light to lighten the Gentiles, and the glory of thy people Israel.
4. Hebrews 13:20-21 Now the God of peace, that brought again from the dead our Lord
Jesus, that great shepherd of the sheep, through the blood of the everlasting covenant,
21 Make you perfect in every good work to do his will, working in you that which is
wellpleasing in his sight, through Jesus Christ; to whom be glory for ever and ever. Amen.

5. 2 Peter 3:18 But grow in grace, and in the knowledge of our Lord and Saviour Jesus
Christ. To him be glory both now and for ever. Amen.
6. Revelation 5:11-12 And I beheld, and I heard the voice of many angels round about
the throne and the beasts and the elders: and the number of them was ten thousand
times ten thousand, and thousands of thousands; 12 Saying with a loud voice, Worthy is
the Lamb that was slain to receive power, and riches, and wisdom, and strength, and
honour, and glory, and blessing.

XVIII. Are we to honor the Son just as we honor the Father?

A. John 5:21-23 For as the Father raiseth up the dead, and quickeneth them; even so
the Son quickeneth whom he will. 22 For the Father judgeth no man, but hath committed
all judgment unto the Son: 23 That all men should honour the Son, even as they honour
the Father. He that honoureth not the Son honoureth not the Father which hath sent
him.
B. John 12:44-45 Jesus cried and said, He that believeth on me, believeth not on me, but
on him that sent me. 45 And he that seeth me seeth him that sent me.
C. John 10:27-33 My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me: 28 And
I give unto them eternal life; and they shall never perish, neither shall any man pluck
them out of my hand. 29 My Father, which gave them me, is greater than all; and no
man is able to pluck them out of my Father's hand. 30 I and my Father are one. 31 Then
the Jews took up stones again to stone him. 32 Jesus answered them, Many good works
have I showed you from my Father; for which of those works do ye stone me? 33 The
Jews answered him, saying, For a good work we stone thee not; but for blasphemy; and
because that thou, being a man, makest thyself God.
D. John 14:7-9 If ye had known me, ye should have known my Father also: and from
henceforth ye know him, and have seen him. 8 Philip saith unto him, Lord, show us the
Father, and it sufficeth us. 9 Jesus saith unto him, Have I been so long time with you,
and yet hast thou not known me, Philip? he that hath seen me hath seen the Father;
and how sayest thou then, Show us the Father?

1. Hebrews 1:1-3 God, who at sundry times and in divers manners spake in time past
unto the fathers by the prophets, 2 Hath in these last days spoken unto us by his Son,
whom he hath appointed heir of all things, by whom also he made the worlds; 3 Who
being the brightness of his glory, and the express image of his person, and upholding all
things by the word of his power, when he had by himself purged our sins, sat down on
the right hand of the Majesty on high;
 

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Posted by Caretaker (Member # 36) on :
 
Part Two:

XIX. Is Jesus Yahweh (Jehovah)?

A. Jeremiah 23:5-6 "Behold, the days are coming," says the LORD (Yahweh), "That I will
raise to David a Branch of righteousness; A King shall reign and prosper, And execute
judgment and righteousness in the earth. 6 In His days Judah will be saved, And Israel
will dwell safely; Now this is His name by which He will be called: THE LORD (Yahweh)
OUR RIGHTEOUSNESS.

XX. Is Jesus God with us?

A. Isaiah 7:14 "Therefore the Lord Himself will give you a sign: Behold, the virgin shall
conceive and bear a Son, and shall call His name Immanuel (Immanuw'el,
im-maw-noo-ale'; from H5973 and H410 with suff. pron. ins.; with us (is) God) Strong’s.

XXI. Was God manifest in the flesh?

A. 1 Timothy 3:16 And without controversy great is the mystery of godliness: God was
manifest in the flesh, justified in the Spirit, seen of angels, preached unto the Gentiles,
believed on in the world, received up into glory.

XXII. Is Jesus equal with God?

A. John 5:18 Therefore the Jews sought the more to kill him, because he not only had
broken the sabbath, but said also that God was his Father, making himself equal with
God.

XXIII. Are we to address Jesus as God?

A. John 20:24-29 But Thomas, one of the twelve, called Didymus, was not with them
when Jesus came. 25 The other disciples therefore said unto him, We have seen the
Lord. But he said unto them, Except I shall see in his hands the print of the nails, and put
my finger into the print of the nails, and thrust my hand into his side, I will not believe.
26 And after eight days again his disciples were within, and Thomas with them: then
came Jesus, the doors being shut, and stood in the midst, and said, Peace be unto you.
27 Then saith he to Thomas, Reach hither thy finger, and behold my hands; and reach
hither thy hand, and thrust it into my side: and be not faithless, but believing. 28 And
Thomas answered and said unto him, My Lord and my God. 29 Jesus saith unto him,
Thomas, because thou hast seen me, thou hast believed: blessed are they that have not
seen, and yet have believed.

XXIV. Unto Whom will every knee bow?

A. God

1. Isaiah 45:21-23 Tell ye, and bring them near; yea, let them take counsel together:
who hath declared this from ancient time? who hath told it from that time? have not I
the LORD? and there is no God else beside me; a just God and a Saviour; there is none
beside me. 22 Look unto me, and be ye saved, all the ends of the earth: for I am God,
and there is none else. 23 I have sworn by myself, the word is gone out of my mouth in
righteousness, and shall not return, That unto me every knee shall bow, every tongue
shall swear.

B. Jesus

1. Philippians 2:10-11 That at the name of Jesus every knee should bow, of things in
heaven, and things in earth, and things under the earth; 11 And that every tongue
should confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father.

XXV. For Whom was the way prepared by John the Baptist?

A. God

1. Malachi 3:1 Behold, I will send my messenger, and he shall prepare the way before me:
and the Lord, whom ye seek, shall suddenly come to his temple, even the messenger of
the covenant, whom ye delight in: behold, he shall come, saith the LORD of hosts.
2. Isaiah 40:3 The voice of him that crieth in the wilderness, Prepare ye the way of the
LORD, make straight in the desert a highway for our God.
3. Matthew 11:10 For this is he, of whom it is written, Behold, I send my messenger
before thy face, which shall prepare thy way before thee.

XXVI. Who rewards every man according to their works?

A. God

1. Psalms 62:11-12 God hath spoken once; twice have I heard this; that power
belongeth unto God. 12 Also unto thee, O Lord, belongeth mercy: for thou renderest to
every man according to his work.
2. Isaiah 40:10 Behold, the Lord GOD will come with strong hand, and his arm shall rule
for him: behold, his reward is with him, and his work before him.
3. Psalms 54:4-5 Behold, God is mine helper: the Lord is with them that uphold my soul. 5
He shall reward evil unto mine enemies: cut them off in thy truth.
4. Psalms 94:1-2 O LORD God, to whom vengeance belongeth; O God, to whom
vengeance belongeth, show thyself. 2 Lift up thyself, thou judge of the earth: render a
reward to the proud.
5. Isaiah 62:11 Behold, the LORD hath proclaimed unto the end of the world, Say ye to
the daughter of Zion, Behold, thy salvation cometh; behold, his reward is with him, and
his work before him.

B. Jesus

1. Revelation 22:12-13 And, behold, I come quickly; and my reward is with me, to give
every man according as his work shall be. 13 I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and
the end, the first and the last.
2. Matthew 16:27-28 For the Son of man shall come in the glory of his Father with his
angels; and then he shall reward every man according to his works. 28 Verily I say unto
you, There be some standing here, which shall not taste of death, till they see the Son
of man coming in his kingdom.

XXVII. Who is the Light?

A. God

1. Psalms 18:28 For thou wilt light my candle: the LORD my God will enlighten my
darkness.
2. Psalms 27:1 A Psalm of David. The LORD is my light and my salvation; whom shall I
fear? the LORD is the strength of my life; of whom shall I be afraid?
3. Psalms 36:7-9 How excellent is thy lovingkindness, O God! therefore the children of
men put their trust under the shadow of thy wings. 8 They shall be abundantly satisfied
with the fatness of thy house; and thou shalt make them drink of the river of thy
pleasures. 9 For with thee is the fountain of life: in thy light shall we see light.
4. Isaiah 2:5 O house of Jacob, come ye, and let us walk in the light of the LORD.
5. Isaiah 60:19-20 The sun shall be no more thy light by day; neither for brightness shall
the moon give light unto thee: but the LORD shall be unto thee an everlasting light, and
thy God thy glory. 20 Thy sun shall no more go down; neither shall thy moon withdraw
itself: for the LORD shall be thine everlasting light, and the days of thy mourning shall be
ended.
6. Micah 7:8-9 Rejoice not against me, O mine enemy: when I fall, I shall arise; when I
sit in darkness, the LORD shall be a light unto me. 9 I will bear the indignation of the
LORD, because I have sinned against him, until he plead my cause, and execute
judgment for me: he will bring me forth to the light, and I shall behold his righteousness.

B. Jesus

1. John 1:1-4 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word
was God. 2 The same was in the beginning with God. 3 All things were made by him; and
without him was not any thing made that was made. 4 In him was life; and the life was
the light of men.
2. John 8:12 Then spake Jesus again unto them, saying, I am the light of the world: he
that followeth me shall not walk in darkness, but shall have the light of life.
3. John 9:5 As long as I am in the world, I am the light of the world.

XXIII. Go tell them what great things God has done.

A. Luke 8:38-39 Now the man out of whom the devils were departed besought him that
he might be with him: but Jesus sent him away, saying, 39 Return to thine own house,
and show how great things God hath done unto thee. And he went his way, and
published throughout the whole city how great things Jesus had done unto him.
 

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Posted by SoftTouch (Member # 2316) on :
 
AMEN and AMEN!!!

I'm printing this one out for certain!
 

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Posted by Carmela (Member # 4817) on :
 
that required a lot of work Caretaker. Thanks for sharing it with us and for the time you put into studying it. I greatly appreciate it. I didn't have time to read it all yet but I did save it to my computer for a time that isn't as late and I can actually keep my eyes open when I read it. lol

Love, Carmela
 

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Posted by Gatekeeper (Member # 4882) on :
 
I also post at another Christian forum and believe it or not, but there are several there that I have debated about this issue. They argued against a Trinity and yet think they are Christian?! You wouldn't believe some of their convoluted arguments. These were wonderful posts and gives me a very concise way to present that Jesus is indeed God.
 

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Posted by TEXASGRANDMA (Member # 847) on :
 
"I also post at another Christian forum and believe it or not, but there are several there that I have debated about this issue. They argued against a Trinity and yet think they are Christian?! You wouldn't believe some of their convoluted arguments. These were wonderful posts and gives me a very concise way to present that Jesus is indeed God."

My daughter, raised in the Assembly of God Church is now United Pentecostal. They too do not believe in the trinity. I do!
betty
 

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Posted by BORN AGAIN (Member # 5) on :
 
Is Yahshua-Jesus God, or the Son of God of Psalm 2?

Psalm 2:12
Kiss the Son, lest He be angry and you perish from the way, when His wrath is kindled but a little. Blessed are all they that put their trust in Him.

John 20:28
And Thomas answered and said unto him, My LORD and my God.

Strong's Concordance: search for LORD

John 20:28
And 2532 Thomas 2381 answered 611 and 2532 said 2036 unto him 846, My 3450 Lord 2962 and 2532 my 3450 God 2316.

Lord 2962 is the Greek word kurios, so that the above scripture should have said:

John 20:28
And Thomas answered and said unto him, My Lord {Kurios} and my God.

IOW, Thomas was not calling Yahshua-Jesus "my LORD Yehovah" but Thomas was calling Jesus "kurios" and also my God."

Thomas admits that only God can do the things that the resurrected Yahshua-Jesus is now doing for 40 days, showing Himself to more than 500 witnesses. "Whosoever reads, let him understand."

Yahshua-Jesus is Absolute God, the Son of the LORD Yehovah Elohim of Israel, born in Bethlehem of Judah, as Micah 5:2 predicted.

May God bless all of us on this BBS, I am BORN AGAIN by the
 

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Posted by helpforhomeschoolers (Member # 15) on :
 
Jesus was begotten of the Holy Spirit - the Son of God.

Luke 1:4 Then said Mary unto the angel, How shall this be, seeing I know not a man?
35 And the angel answered and said unto her, The Holy Ghost shall come upon thee, and the power of the Highest shall overshadow thee: therefore also that holy thing which shall be born of thee shall be called the Son of God.


GOD was manifest in the flesh.

John 1:14 And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth.

1 Timothy 3:16 And without controversy great is the mystery of godliness: God was manifest in the flesh, justified in the Spirit, seen of angels, preached unto the Gentiles, believed on in the world, received up into glory.

Jesus was born - God manifest in the Flesh - of the virgin Mary - the Son of Man.

Matthew 16:13 When Jesus came into the coasts of Caesarea Philippi, he asked his disciples, saying, Whom do men say that I the Son of man am?


Matthew 1:23 Behold, a virgin shall be with child, and shall bring forth a son, and they shall call his name Emmanuel, which being interpreted is, God with us.
 

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Posted by helpforhomeschoolers (Member # 15) on :
 
bump
 

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Posted by trafield (Member # 5358) on :
 

quote:

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Please explain how no one has seen God at ANY TIME and Jesus = God at the very same time. Why does your testimony disagree with that of John the Baptist? Please be specific and give Scripture to support you reason.

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quote:

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Hi Trafield:

Thank you for writing. Please place my name and any other registered member’s name you mention at the very top of your post. Otherwise we may skip right by your reply altogether.

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quote:

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Please explain how no one has seen God at ANY TIME and Jesus = God at the very same time.

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How does that jive with:

John 6:46
Not that any man has seen the Father, save he which is of God, he has seen the Father.

John 14:9
Jesus said to him, Have I been so long time with you, and yet hast thou not known me, Philip? He who has seen me hath seen the Father; and how say you then, Show us the Father?

God bless, BORN AGAIN
 

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Posted by HisGrace (Member # 3438) on :
 

quote:

---

Originally posted by Terral:
Scripture says:

“For there is one God, and one mediator* ALSO between God AND men, the man Christ Jesus.” 1Timothy 2:5.

The Greek term here is “mesites” (#3316) meaning: ( http://www.blueletterbible.org/tmp_dir/words/3/1136566377-3245.html )
-----------
1) one who intervenes BETWEEN two, either in order to make or restore peace and friendship, or form a compact, or for ratifying a covenant

2) a MEDIUM of communication, arbitrator
--------------

Please explain for everyone here how you transform our ‘one Mediator’ (Christ Jesus) into the ‘one God’ of the same verse for whom He mediates?? Your explanation of this point could do wonders for us who believe “Jesus Christ” (Rev. 1:1,2,5) is the “Son of God” (Rev. 2:18) and that “The Almighty” (Rev. 1:8) is “His God and Father.” Revelation 1:6.Terral

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Nothing about mediators or arbitrators in the following scipture. If you don't see the Truth in it, there is a veil over your eyes.

1 Timothy 3:16 And without controversy great is the mystery of godliness: God was
manifest in the flesh, justified in the Spirit, seen of angels, preached unto the Gentiles, believed on in the world, received up into glory.

~Notice it doesn't say that Jesus preached unto the Gentiles.

Manifest -verb: reveal its presence or make an appearance.
 

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Posted by trafield (Member # 5358) on :
 


Hmmm...
Seems to be avoiding responding to Born Again's post....
 

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Posted by HisGrace (Member # 3438) on :
 

quote:

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Originally posted by Terral:
Hi His Grace:

Thank you for writing.


Please . . . Nothing in this post addresses the “one God” AND ALSO “one Mediator” (Christ Jesus) of 1Timothy 2:5. The Greek term “Mesites” does not allow Christ Jesus to be the “one God” of the SAME VERSE. Do not try to pass off your “Notice this” lingo as BIBLE COMMENTARY. Please try again if you ever come up with an answer for the 1Timothy 2:5 Challenge.
Your tactic in answering my 1Tim. 2:5 challenge was to change the subject and misrepresent another verse that also agrees with my interpretation.

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quote:

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But, there is more: “He*” doing the explaining in this verse is the Only Begotten Son who is explaining the “God” that no one has seen at ANY TIME. The Gospel writer did not make this statement in 30 AD, for Christ to come behind and contradict;

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First of all, if "all scriptures is inspired" and "if the Spirit of Truth will bring all things to our(their) remembrance", what would be the need for Christ to "come behind and contradict"?

But other than that, forgive me if I'm wrong, but it seems to me that you are saying that the Son of God is not the LORD YHWH, and vice versa and that we need to keep this distinction.

When we see the Son of God on earth, the Father inside of Him could not be seen on the outside, except "indirectly" by the "works which the Father did in Jesus".

In Isaiah 9:6 the "child that is born" is also called "the mighty God" and "the everlasting Father".

But aside from that, my simpler point is that "no man can do the things which He did", and how can anyone think that Jesus is a "man" if Jesus can "ascend up into the clouds from near Bethany"?

I mean, I don't know what kind of supermen you have been hanging around with, Terral (other than coincidentally here with epouraniois), but the abilities of this Jesus fellow are "part and parcel" the kind of activities that I would "ascsribe to a God" or "to God".

In essence and substance, as the Son of, what, of God, the Son of God is substance-wise identical to God, is He not?

Do you agree with that, or not?

God bless, BORN AGAIN
 

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Posted by ToBeContinued (Member # 4639) on :
 
John 8:58

Jesus said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Before Abraham was, I am

The doctrine of the Trinity -- that God the Father, God the Son, and God the Holy Spirit are each equally and eternally the one true God -- is admittedly difficult to comprehend, and yet is the very foundation of Christian truth. Although skeptics may ridicule it as a mathematical impossibility, it is nevertheless a basic doctrine of Scripture as well as profoundly realistic in both universal experience and in the scientific understanding of the cosmos.

Both Old and New Testaments teach the Unity and the Trinity of the Godhead. The idea that there is only one God, who created all things, is repeatedly emphasized in such Scriptures as Isaiah 45:18:

"For thus saith the Lord that created the heavens; God himself that formed the earth and made it; ...I am the Lord; and there is none else."

A New Testament example is James 2:19:

"Thou believest that there is one God; thou doest well; the devils also believe, and tremble."

The three persons of the Godhead are, at the same time, noted in such Scriptures as Isaiah 48:16:

"I have not spoken in secret from the beginning; From the time that it was, there am I; and now the Lord God, and his Spirit, hath sent me."

The speaker in this verse is obviously God, and yet He says He has been sent both by The Lord God (that is, the Father) and by His Spirit (that is, the Holy Spirit).

The New Testament doctrine of the Trinity is evident in such a verse as John 15:26, where the Lord Jesus said:

"But when the Comforter is come whom I will send unto you from the Father, He shall testify of me."

Then there is the baptismal formula:

"baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost" (Matthew 28:19).

One name (God) -- yet three names!

JESUS -- That Jesus, as the only-begotten Son of God, actually claimed to be God, equal with the Father, is clear from numerous Scriptures. For example, He said:

"I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the ending, saith the Lord, which is, and which was, and which is to come, the Almighty" (Revelation 1:8).

HOLY SPIRIT -- Some cults falsely teach that the Holy Spirit is an impersonal divine influence of some kind, but the Bible teaches that He is a real person, just as are the Father and the Son. Jesus said:

"Howbeit when he, the Spirit of truth, is come, he will guide you into all truth: for he shall not speak of himself; but whatsoever he shall hear, that shall he speak; and he will show you things to come" (John 16:13).

TRI-UNITY -- The teaching of the Bible concerning the Trinity might be summarized thus. God is a Tri-unity, with each Person of the Godhead equally and fully and eternally God. Each is necessary, and each is distinct, and yet all are one. The three Persons appear in a logical, causal order. The Father is the unseen, omnipresent Source of all being, revealed in and by the Son, experienced in and by the Holy Spirit. The Son proceeds from the Father, and the Spirit from the Son. With reference to God's creation, the Father is the Thought behind it, the Son is the Word calling it forth, and the Spirit is the Deed making it a reality.

We "see" God and His great salvation in the Son of God, the Lord Jesus Christ, then "experience" their reality by faith, through the indwelling presence of His Holy Spirit.

Though these relationships seem paradoxical, and to some completely impossible, they are profoundly realistic, and their truth is ingrained deep in man's nature. Thus, men have always sensed first the truth that God must be "out there," everywhere present and the First Cause of all things, but they have corrupted this intuitive knowledge of the Father into pantheism and ultimately into naturalism.

Similarly, men have always felt the need to "see" God in terms of their own experience and understanding, but this knowledge that God must reveal Himself has been distorted into polytheism and idolatry. Men have thus continually erected "models" of God, sometimes in the form of graven images, sometimes even in the form of philosophical systems purporting to represent ultimate reality.

Finally, men have always known that they should be able to have communion with their Creator and to experience His presence "within." But this deep intuition of the Holy Spirit has been corrupted into various forms of false mysticism and fanaticism, and even into spiritism and demonism. Thus, the truth of God's tri-unity is ingrained in man's very nature, but he has often distorted it and substituted a false god in its place.
 

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Posted by ToBeContinued (Member # 4639) on :
 
Is Jesus Christ a man, or is he God?

Jesus Christ is most definitely God. He created Adam and Eve, the first man and woman, in his image. He is the Creator of the universe. The Bible says, "Through him all things were made; without him nothing was made that has been made" (John 1:3). This includes all the stars, all the original animals and plants, and even the angels (Colossians 1:15-17).

It is important not be confused. God did not create Jesus. Jesus is God, and he has always existed.

Jesus proved that he is God by doing many things that only God could do. These are called miracles. He made dead people alive. He walked across a great lake. He made blind eyes see perfectly again. He healed deadly diseases with a word.

The exciting truth is that Jesus is now also a man, and will remain so for all eternity. He humbled himself to become like one of his own creations. He chose to become a man to help us in an extremely important way. This amazing event happened about 2-thousand years ago. The results have changed the world forever.


The part of God that is called the Holy Spirit created God's human body inside of a woman named Mary (Matthew 1:20). God went into this human body that grew inside of Mary. The baby was born and grew into a man.


At various times in the past, Jesus had appeared to people in human form. One example is when he appeared to Abraham just before the judgment of the evil cities of Sodom and Gomorrah. But now, for the first time in history, God did not simply appear as man, he became fully human. Yet, he is still God. He is both God and man.

One huge difference between this man and every other man and woman, or boy and girl, is that Jesus was (and still is) sinless. We humans are full of sin. We sin every day. Jesus never did anything wrong, not even once. No matter what temptations came to him, he refused to sin. He has always remained pure and perfect.

Isn't it amazing to think about?! Our Creator walked among us. Like us, our Almighty God smelled the flowers and touched the animals that he had created. He loved boys and girls.

As a man, God experienced the same temptations that we feel (Hebrews 2:18). He suffered the same kind of physical pains that we suffer with. He also experienced emotional pain. He even wept about the city of Jerusalem (John 11:35). He was ignored, unappreciated, unloved, misunderstood, and even despised -- even though he did nothing wrong, and always loved everyone (1 Peter 2:23). Not only is Jesus Christ the greatest man that ever lived; he is our Creator. He deserved all glory and honor!

I am sure that you have heard what people did to him. It was horribly painful and terribly unjust.

He had the power to stop their torture and taunting at any time. His power is awesome beyond anything we can understand. Yet, he did not defend himself. He let himself be like a perfect, innocent little lamb that hurt no one, and was sacrificed for the sins of the people.

He did this for us, because he loves us. Only he could pay the price for our sins. Only he could save us from the punishment we deserve. He suffered for us (1 Peter 2:21; 3:18; 4:1).

Today, he lives in Heaven and works to help us (Romans 8:34). The Bible tells us that one day he will return to earth to become the rightful king of the entire world. That will be a most wonderful time! Finally, we will have a leader that is good and wise in every way. The earth will be filled with God's glory and justice. Life on this planet will become so much better. Even the dangerous animals will become harmless (the wolf will lie down with the lamb) (Isaiah 11:6).

Is Jesus Christ God or man? The answer is BOTH; he is God and man
 

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Posted by ToBeContinued (Member # 4639) on :
 
Isaiah 7:14-"Therefore the Lord himself shall give you a sign; Behold, a virgin shall conceive, and bear a son, and shall call his name Immanuel" (Immanuel literally means "God with us").

Isaiah 9:6-"For unto us a child is born, unto us a son is given: and the government shall be upon his shoulder: and his name shall be called Wonderful, Counsellor, The mighty God, The everlasting Father, The Prince of Peace. Of the increase of his government and peace there shall be no end...."

Jeremiah 23:5-6-"Behold, the days come, saith the LORD, that I will raise unto David a righteous Branch, and a King shall reign and prosper, and shall execute judgment and justice in the earth. In his days Judah shall be saved, and Israel shall dwell safely: and this is his name whereby he shall be called, THE LORD OUR RIGHTEOUSNESS." Christ's name in Hebrew is YHWH Tsidkenu, Jehovah Our Righteousness.

Micah 5:2-"But thou, Bethlehem Ephratah, though thou be little among the thousands of Judah, yet out of thee shall he come forth unto me that is to be ruler in Israel; whose goings forth have been from of old, from everlasting." Christ has always existed because He is not a created being; He is God Almighty who has existed from everlasting.

Malachi 3:1-2-"Behold, I will send my messenger, and he shall prepare the way before me: and the Lord, whom ye seek, shall suddenly come to his temple, even the messenger of the covenant, whom ye delight in: behold, he shall come, saith the LORD of hosts. But who may abide the day of his coming? and who shall stand when he appeareth? for he is like a refiner's fire, and like fullers' soap." God's temple is Christ's temple. Christ comes as an all-powerful judge.

Psalm 45:1, 6-7-"I speak of the things which I have made touching the king.... Thy throne, O God, is for ever and ever: the sceptre of thy kingdom is a right sceptre. Thou lovest righteousness, and hatest wickedness: therefore God, thy God, hath anointed thee...." The Hebrew word translated "anointed" is the verb form of the noun "Messiah."

Psalm 110:1-3-"The LORD said unto my Lord, Sit thou at my right hand, until I make thine enemies thy footstool. The LORD shall send the rod of thy strength out of Zion: rule thou in the midst of thine enemies. Thy people shall be willing in the day of thy power...." The LORD (Jehovah) will subdue all Christ's enemies. Yet Christ's rod and Christ's power will subdue all enemies. Christ's rule and power are clearly equal to God's. See Psalm 2 where a similar theme is discussed: "Serve the LORD [Jehovah] with fear, and rejoice with trembling. Kiss the Son, lest he be angry, and ye perish from the way..." (vv. 11-12). Note how "the Son" is set poetically in parallel with "Jehovah."
 

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Posted by BORN AGAIN (Member # 5) on :
 
brother Terral writes

quote:

---

Instead of recognizing that God’s Word is written by the same Spirit of God, you are pretending that we can use one verse to cancel out all others.

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brother Terral, tonight I felt honored that you are with us and that I might learn a few things from you.

At first I thought you were talking with contempt for your fellow brothers and sisters in Christ, but I think you know a lot and I'd like to learn some of it.

You sound sharp at times but tonight it felt more like the two-edged sword of Chrisst which does not waste any time.

God bless, BORN AGAIN
 

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Posted by epouraniois (Member # 5187) on :
 
Some words on the first verses of the Gospel of John, due to the promulgation by a certain section of Christendom leading the reader to think that the inspired original tells us that the Word was a God;


The Edition of the N.T. which contains this evil has both the Greek text and the translation side by side:, how

It may be helpful if we transliterate the English characters, using e for Eta and o for Omega, and (x) for Iota subscript.

1. En arche(x) en ho - In the beginning was the

logos kai ho logos en - word and the Word was

pros ton Theon - with the God

kai Theos en ho logos - and God was the Word.

2. Houtos en en arche(x) - The same was in the beginning

pros ton Theon - with the God.

3. Panta di'autou - All things through Him

egeneto, kai choris autou - became, and without Him

egeneto oude en, - became not one thing,

ho gegonen - which has become.

The argument brought forward in the evil interpretation rests largely upon the use and omission of the Greek article (ho).

This Greek article corresponds with our English "the," and in its varied cases to "in the," "to the," &c. The article is easily found in the first line, as the literal rendering follows the order of the words, ho logos is "the Word." When, however, a noun is in the accusative or objective case, the article is declined in sympathy with the noun, and so ho logos would become ton logon. Now as the word Theos (God) is a similar word to logos, the last two words in the third line ton Theon, are simply ho Theos in the accusative case. Although this may sound complicated, it is presented to prevent misunderstanding on the part of those who may search out these things, but who may not possess the necessary knowledge to undertake this study. Note that, while we have the article before the word "God " in the third line, it is omitted in the fourth line. It does not read kai ho Theos, but kai Theos; not "and the God," but "and God." Thus we may read the sentence:

The Word was God, or, God was the Word.

The use of the article does determine the true subject of the sentence, hence we see that in lines 1 and 4 ho logos - "the Word " - is the subject.

Emphasis is laid upon the subject - "the Word" - by the Figure of Speech called Hyperbaton. This Figure means "a stepping over," and by placing a word out of position than that which was previously stated, it draws, or calls our attention that the order is reversed, but the subject does not change in this Figure. The subject remains as before, the Figure catching our attention.

Hence, "In the beginning was THE WORD, and God THE WORD was." No amount of explanation can have any weight unless it can be seen to be in harmony with the Scriptures of truth.


When confronted with one of these exponents of the "Greek original", it might be asked of them for an evidence in consistency by reading the translation given of another verse in the selfsame chapter, such as verse 14. If kai Theos en ho logos means "and the Word was A God," why should not kai ho logos sarx egeneto be translated, "and the Word became A flesh"? Such translation becomes manifestly absurd, yet it is based upon precisely the same argument, the absence of the article before the word flesh. Does ho Theos agape estin mean "The God is A love?"


The grammatical rule:
The article is employed to demonstrate, while its omission is designed to describe.

"The God" points out the subject of the sentence, "is love" describes His essence. So "the Word became flesh" describes the sphere into which the Word came, namely flesh.

Hence, we read the two passages together:

The Word WAS GOD. The Word BECAME FLESH.

In each case the absence of the article describes, while the change in the verb signifies that in the first instance the condition was one of essential character, "was" (verb "to be"); the other, that which He assumed when the fulness of time came, "He became."

The word Theos is used of God in the Scriptures in three different ways:

* Essentially, as in John 4:24: ‘God is Spirit’.
* Personally, as of the Father: ‘God the Father’ (Gal. 1:1).
Personally, as of the Son: ‘Unto the Son, He saith ... O God’ (Heb. 1:8). Personally, as of the Spirit: ‘The Holy Ghost ... God’ (Acts 5:3,4).
* Manifestly, as of the Word: ‘The Word was God’ (1:1).

‘I and My Father are one. Then the Jews took up stones again to stone Him ... Thou, being a man, makest Thyself God’
(John 10:30-33).

‘Thomas answered and said unto Him, My Lord and my God’ (John 20:28).


Christ specificaally called the kingdom, 'my kingdom':

Mk 6:23
And he sware unto her, Whatsoever thou shalt ask of me, I will give [it] thee, unto the half of my kingdom.

Lk 22:30
That ye may eat and drink at my table in my kingdom, and sit on thrones judging the twelve tribes of Israel.

Jn 18:36
Jesus answered, My kingdom is not of this world: if my kingdom were of this world, then would my servants fight, that I should not be delivered to the Jews: but now is my kingdom not from hence.
 

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Posted by HisGrace (Member # 3438) on :
 
Terral, whenever we lay out the facts in black and white, you cleverly go off on a tangent, pontifacting about eos and theos, #1350 or #1206,(whatever), instead of confronting the plain Truth. Let's face it - the Bible just does not support your theory that Jesus does not equal God.

Once again - 1 Timothy 3:16 And without controversy great is the mystery of godliness: God was manifest in the flesh, justified in the Spirit, seen of angels, preached unto the Gentiles, believed on in the world, received up
into glory.

John 8:58 :Jesus answered, "The truth is, I existed before Abraham was even born!"

John 10:1 The Father and I are One.

John 1:1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God

John 1:14 And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth.

Please, no more intellectual explanations about these scriptures.
 

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Posted by helpforhomeschoolers (Member # 15) on :
 
Amen HisGrace!!!

Jim, I particularly liked your "One God three names." I often think of them as adminstrations,in which He has dispensed grace and mercy to mankind, but I really like your use of "names" I think that fits so well with this scripture which is one of my favorite and one which I think settles this issue:

Isaiah 9:6 For unto us a child is born, unto us a son is given: and the government shall be upon his shoulder: and his name shall be called Wonderful, Counsellor, The mighty God, The everlasting Father, The Prince of Peace.

Amen?
 

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Posted by HisGrace (Member # 3438) on :
 

quote:

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Originally posted by Terral:
His Grace Commentary >> NONE. ( x3 )

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Does anyone here know the name of the Only Begotten Son of God?

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Terral,


This side of the Debate is quoting most every word you say and showing the errors using Scripture, while asking everyone here to do the same thing for me.

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Isa 43:11
I, even I, am the Jehovah; and beside me there is no savior.

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No other Saviour, but Jehovah!

Paul it seems knew this at least when he wrote to Timothy...

1 Timothy 1:1 Paul, an apostle of Jesus Christ by the commandment of God our Saviour, and Lord Jesus Christ, which is our hope;

But I guess that if Terrel's doctrine be true... then Paul must have forgotten it when he wrote to Titus... or maybe Paul was just confused?

Titus 1:4 To Titus, mine own son after the common faith: Grace, mercy, and peace, from God the Father and the Lord Jesus Christ our Saviour.

or wait here Paul again shows that God is Savior...

Titus 2:10 Not purloining, but shewing all good fidelity; that they may adorn the doctrine of God our Saviour in all things.

or is it Christ our Savior??

Titus 2:13 Looking for that blessed hope, and the glorious appearing of the great God and our Saviour Jesus Christ;
 

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Posted by epouraniois (Member # 5187) on :
 

quote:

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Originally posted by helpforhomeschoolers:

quote:

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Isa 43:11
I, even I, am the Jehovah; and beside me there is no savior.

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No other Saviour, but Jehovah!

Paul it seems knew this at least when he wrote to Timothy...

1 Timothy 1:1 Paul, an apostle of Jesus Christ by the commandment of God our Saviour, and Lord Jesus Christ, which is our hope;

But I guess that if Terrel's doctrine be true... then Paul must have forgotten it when he wrote to Titus... or maybe Paul was just confused?

Titus 1:4 To Titus, mine own son after the common faith: Grace, mercy, and peace, from God the Father and the Lord Jesus Christ our Saviour.

or wait here Paul again shows that God is Savior...

Titus 2:10 Not purloining, but shewing all good fidelity; that they may adorn the doctrine of God our Saviour in all things.

or is it Christ our Savior??

Titus 2:13 Looking for that blessed hope, and the glorious appearing of the great God and our Saviour Jesus Christ;

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Linda writes -

Jim, I particularly liked your "One God three names." I often think of them as adminstrations,in which He has dispensed grace and mercy to mankind, but I really like your use of "names" I think that fits so well with this scripture which is one of my favorite and one which I think settles this issue:

Isaiah 9:6 For unto us a child is born, unto us a son is given: and the government shall be upon his shoulder: and his name shall be called Wonderful, Counsellor, The mighty God, The everlasting Father, The Prince of Peace.

Amen?

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The point is very simple:

1. God = the “one God.”

2. One Mediator* = “Christ Jesus” between God and men.

3. One Mesities* forbids Christ Jesus from being the ‘one God’ for whom He Mediates.

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Adv. Christian >> So before you say that this is the wrong interpretation because of our understanding let us see how the ones Jesus was talking to understood what He said.

John the Baptist already settled Christ’s true identity in John 1:34. The rest is academic . . .

Adv. Christian Quotes >> John 10:31 Then the Jews took up stones again to stone him. 32 Jesus answered them, Many good works have I shewed you from my Father; for which of those works do ye stone me? 33 The Jews answered him, saying, For a good work we stone thee not; but for blasphemy; and because that thou, being a man, makest thyself God.

Adv. Christian’s Commentary >> NONE.

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As you love to say “please quote me” not what you wish I said.
As to your line on John 1:34 if you would include the rest of the scriptures yyou would have to say John the Baptist taught Jesus was a lamb for in John 1:29 he states Behold the Lamb of God.

You added

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“Jesus answered them, "Has it not been written in your Law, 'I said, you are gods'? "If he called them gods, to whom the word of God came (and the Scripture cannot be broken), do you say of Him, whom the Father sanctified and sent into the world, 'You are blaspheming,' because I said, 'I am the SON OF GOD'? John 10:34-36.

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Terral
I understand the concept of The Son (soul) and the Father (spirit) being “one” with greater understanding and conviction than you. The Holy Spirit (water) is His Body and they are ‘one’ also for the very same reasons.

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Terral


No sir. I am a non-Denominational Christian and a member of the ‘body of Christ’ (Eph. 4:12)

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I don't see how, God knows, but the Bible is very clear, there is no Savior but Jehovah, the creator of the heavens and the earth.

Our Bible is repleat with direct statments to Chirsts' diety, many, many direct statments.

The retorical question is, what kind of a Christian denies God has come in the flesh? Is it the overcomer who denies Christ? Is that what is written all over the book?

What did the risen LORD speak in their private Bible seminar for fourty days? Well, something like this, the short version:

"CHRIST" AND "THE SCRIPTURES."

"His name is called THE WORD OF GOD," Rev 19:13.
They "pressed upon Him to hear THE WORD OF GOD," Luke 5:1.

The Prince of PEACE, Isa 9:6.
The Gospel of PEACE, Rom 10:15.

Jesus said,..."No man cometh unto the Father, but BY ME," John 14:6.
"Make me to go in the PATH of Thy Commandments," Psa 119:35.

"Jesus saith unto him, I am THE WAY," John 14:6.
"Teach me, O Lord, THE WAY of Thy statutes," Psa 119:33.

"I am...THE TRUTH," John 14:6.
"Thy Word is TRUTH," John 17:17.

Christ—"Full of grace and TRUTH," John 1:14.
"All Thy Commandments are TRUTH," Psa 119:151.

"These things saith He...that is TRUE," Rev 3:7.
"The Judgments of the Lord are TRUE," Psa 19:9.

"Jesus Christ. This is the true God, and eternal LIFE," 1 John 5:20.
"Holding forth the Word of LIFE," Phil 2:16.

"A bone of Him shall not be broken," John 19:36.
"The scripture cannot be broken," John 10:35.

"I am the Living Bread...if any man eat of this Bread he shall LIVE for ever," John 6:51.
"Man shall not LIVE by bread alone, but by every Word of God," Luke 4:4.

"With Thee is the FOUNTAIN OF LIFE," Psa 36:9.
"Thy Law...is a FOUNTAIN OF LIFE," Prov 13:14.

Jesus said, "I am the LIGHT of the World," John 8:12.
David said, "Thy Word is a LIGHT unto my path," Psa 119:105.

"The Life was the LIGHT," John 1:4.
"The Law is LIGHT," Prov 6:23.

"Thou art my LAMP, O Lord," 2 Sam 22:29.
"Thy Word is a LAMP unto my feet," Psa 119:105.

"I, saith the Lord, will be unto her a wall of FIRE," Zech 2:5.
"Is not My Word like as a FIRE? saith the Lord," Jer 23:29.

"The Light of Israel shall be for a FIRE," Isa 10:17.
"I will make My Words in thy mouth FIRE," Jer 5:14.

"To you which believe, He is PRECIOUS," 1 Peter 2:7.
"Exceeding great and PRECIOUS Promises," 2 Peter 1:4.

"My beloved is...chiefest among ten THOUSAND," Song 5:10.
"The Law of Thy mouth is better unto me than THOUSANDS of gold and silver," Psa 119:72.

"His Mouth is most SWEET," Song 5:16.
"How SWEET are Thy Words unto my taste," Psa 119:103.

"His Name shall be called WONDERFUL," Isa 9:6.
"Thy Testimonies are WONDERFUL," Psa 119:129.

"Christ, the POWER OF GOD," 1 Cor 1:24.
"The Gospel is the POWER OF GOD," Rom 1:16.

Lord, "Thou art GOOD, and doest Good," Psa 119:68.
"GOOD is the Word of the Lord," Isa 39:8.

"Ye have known Him that is FROM THE BEGINNING," 1 John 2:13.
"Thy Word is true FROM THE BEGINNING," Psa 119:160.

"From Everlasting to EVERLASTING Thou art God," Psa 90:2.
"The righteousness of Thy Testimonies is EVERLASTING," Psa 119:144.

"Thy throne, O God, is FOR EVER AND EVER," Heb 1:8.
"Thy testimonies,...Thou hast founded them FOR EVER," Psa 119:152.

"The Lord shall ENDURE for ever," Psa 9:7.
"The Word of the Lord ENDURETH for ever," 1 Peter 1:25.

"Christ ABIDETH for ever," John 12:34.
"The Word of God...ABIDETH for ever," 1 Peter 1:23.

"Worship Him that LIVETH for ever," Rev 4:10.
"The Word of God LIVETH for ever," 1 Peter 1:23.

Christ's Kingdom "shall STAND FOR EVER," Dan 2:44.
"The Word of our God shall STAND FOR EVER," Isa 40:8.

The STONE..."on whomsoever it shall fall, it will grind him to powder," Luke 20:18.
"Is not my Word...saith the Lord, like a HAMMER that breaketh the rock in pieces?" Jer 23:29.

Christ, "A STUMBLING Stone," Rom 9:33.
They "STUMBLE at the Word," 1 Peter 2:8.

"Lo, I am with you ALWAY, even unto the end of the world," Matt 28:20.
"Thy commandments...are EVER WITH ME," Psa 119:98.

"Christ may DWELL in your hearts by faith," Eph 3:17.
"Let the Word of Christ DWELL in you richly," Col 3:16.

Christ said, "ABIDE in me, and I IN YOU," John 15:4.
"If... my Words ABIDE in you," John 15:7.

"Hereby we know that He ABIDETH in us," 1 John 3:24.
"The Word of God ABIDETH in you," 1 John 2:14.

Christ called, "FAITHFUL and true," Rev 19:11.
"Thy Testimonies...are very FAITHFUL," Psa 119:138.

"Out of His mouth goeth a sharp SWORD," Rev 19:15.
"The Word of God...is sharper than any two-edged SWORD," Heb 4:12.*

* Heb 4:12 probably refers to both the Living Word and the written Word also.

"The Lord TRIETH the Righteous," Psa 11:5.
"The Word of the Lord TRIED him," Psa 105:19.

Christ a "TRIED Stone," Isa 28:16.
"The Word of the Lord is TRIED," Psa 18:30.

We are "BORN OF God," 1 John 5:18.
"BORN...by the Word of God," 1 Peter 1:23.

"BEGOTTEN...by...Jesus Christ," 1 Peter 1:3.
BEGOTTEN...through The Gospel," 1 Cor 4:15.

"The Son QUICKENETH whom He will," John 5:21.
"Thy Word hath QUICKENED me," Psa 119:50.

"You hath he QUICKENED who were dead," &c., Eph 2:1.
"Thy Precepts...with them thou hast QUICKENED me," Psa 119:93.

"He that eateth me, even he shall LIVE by me," John 6:57.
"Desire the sincere milk of The Word, that ye may GROW thereby," 1 Peter 2:2.

"Christ hath made us FREE," Gal 5:1.
"The Truth shall make you FREE," John 8:32.

"The Blood of Jesus Christ...CLEANSETH us from all sin," 1 John 1:7.
"YE are CLEAN through the Word which I have spoken," John 15:3.

Christ "is able also to SAVE them to the uttermost that come unto God by Him," Heb 7:25.
"Receive...the engrafted Word, which is able to SAVE your souls," James 1:21.

"SANCTIFIED in Christ Jesus," 1 Cor 1:2.
"SANCTIFIED by the Word of God and prayer," 1 Tim 4:5.

"SANCTIFIED through the offering of the body of Jesus Christ once for all," Heb 10:10.
"SANCTIFY them through THY TRUTH. Thy Word is truth," John 17:17.

"Christ Jesus, who of God is made unto us WISDOM," 1 Cor 1:30.
"The Holy Scriptures...able to make thee WISE unto salvation," 2 Tim 3:15.

Christ "HEALED them," Matt 4:24.
"He sent His Word and HEALED them," Psa 107:20.

"Striving according to His Working which WORKETH in me mightily," Col 1:29.
"The Word of God which effectually WORKETH also in you that believe," 1 Thess 2:13.

"The Lord Jesus Christ...shall JUDGE the quick and the dead," 2 Tim 4:1.
"The Word that I have spoken...shall JUDGE him," John 12:48.

"I will go unto God, my exceeding Joy," Psa 43:4.
"Thy Word was unto me the JOY and rejoicing of my heart," Jer 15:16.


"Holy men of God spake as they were moved by the Holy Ghost", "he shall testify of me".
 

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Posted by helpforhomeschoolers (Member # 15) on :
 

Epouraniois we may not agree on where to rightly divide the word but on this post we agree! Amen!!
 

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Posted by yahsway (Member # 3738) on :
 
I second that! Agreed also and Amen!
 

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Posted by Bloodbought (Member # 4365) on :
 
Great Post Epouraniois, to God be the Glory! Amen!
 

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Posted by Caretaker (Member # 36) on :
 
1 John 4:
1: Beloved, believe not every spirit, but try the spirits whether they are of God: because many false prophets are gone out into the world.
2: Hereby know ye the Spirit of God: Every spirit that confesseth that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is of God:
3: And every spirit that confesseth not that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is not of God: and this is that spirit of antichrist, whereof ye have heard that it should come; and even now already is it in the world.

1 Tim 3:
16: And without controversy great is the mystery of godliness: God was manifest in the flesh, justified in the Spirit, seen of angels, preached unto the Gentiles, believed on in the world, received up into glory.


John 1:
1: In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God .
2: The same was in the beginning with God.
14: And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth.
15: John bare witness of him, and cried, saying, This was he of whom I spake, He that cometh after me is preferred before me: for he was before me.
16: And of his fulness have all we received, and grace for grace.
17: For the law was given by Moses, but grace and truth came by Jesus Christ.
 

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Posted by Adv.Christian (Member # 3453) on :
 
Hello all; I enjoyed reading over the last few post but I must admit I find it intresting with yours Terral.

quote:

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I looked back at your original post and have no clue as to what you are talking about. The only two lines I added were above and below my own quote to separate that from the remainder of the post. Are you talking about the two dotted lines?

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Terral
Jesus answered them, "Has it not been written in your Law, 'I said, you are gods'? "If he called them gods, to whom the word of God came (and the Scripture cannot be broken), do you say of Him, whom the Father sanctified and sent into the world, 'You are blaspheming,' because I said, 'I am the SON OF GOD'? John 10:34-36.

Christian >> Why did you stop there?

I stopped there because Christ just refuted your assertion that He was pretending to be God.

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Terral Christ saying “I and the Father are One” does not equal “Jesus = God

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Terral
If that were the case, then John the Baptist would have simply said Jesus is God in John 1:34, which he DID NOT say. The reason you see no Jesus is God Almighty quotes in the entire Bible is because that would contradict John the Baptist and Peter (Matt. 16:16) and Paul (Rom. 1:4) and Christ Himself (Rev. 2:18). My Bible has no contradictions and every word says Jesus Christ is the Son of God AND God is “His God and Father.”

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Terral
We know each other by the substance or lack thereof contained in our arguments. Have you ever considered before that a triune relationship exists between the Father (spirit), Son (blood) and Holy Spirit (water) like in a man of spirit (spirit), soul (blood) and body (water)? How about the fact that this simple arrangement also mirrors the family of man (spirit), seed (blood) and woman (water)? Or that bread = oil (spirit), broken grain (blood) and water (water) tested by fire? Or that Christ is the ‘Bread of Life’ (John 6:48) because the Father (spirit; John 14:10+11) was “IN” Christ and the Son (blood) was “full of the Holy Spirit” (water; Luke 4:1)??

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Terral
You people do not love Jesus as the Son of God coming to explain the “God” (John 1:18) that NO ONE has EVER SEEN. You are infatuated with the notion of elevating the Son into the position of His God and Father in reckless abandon for everything Scripture says. This side of the Debate loves the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ AND His Only Begotten Son AND could never obliterate One by replacing Him with the Other.

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Terral
Where is your “Jesus is God” quote? Listing a mile of verses does not write one word of commentary for anyone. If I am here to be judged by you all, so that God’s justice may see the sword fall and sever each from His Infinite Realm, then so be it. All of you have been warned . . .

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Terral
Who asked for commentary on the whole chapter of Galatians 3? Not me. A doctrinal outline includes precepts teaching your ‘doctrine of salvation.’ You are rambling about something else entirely . . .

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Originally posted by Lars7:
Romans 1:29

Being filled with all unrighteousness, fornication, wickedness, covetousness, maliciousness; full of envy, murder, debate, deceit, malignity; whisperers,


It is very interesting to see some of the things included in this list of abominations that many people would not consider sin or certainly not a "bad" sin like others on the list. For instance, the word "debate" means "to quarrel or argue." Some people think that is perfectly okay, but Paul lists it right along with murder and sexual sins.

The word "whisperers" means "gossips." A "backbiter" is a person who slanders the character or reputation of another when they are not present. Pride is listed among these sins that are an abomination to God, as well as being disobedient to parents. A "covenant-breaker" is a person who cannot be trusted to keep his word.

The truth is, there are no little sins or acceptable sins. All unrighteousness is sin (1 Jn. 5:17) and should be rejected.

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Terral

Nobody else has even used the term except for “Terral.” Therefore, let’s refine your statement to include the only other person to use the word in this “Debate.” The Greek term “eris” (#2054) is used eight times in the New Testament and is NEVER translated ‘debate’ in the New American Standard Bible. You are using the Old King James that translates this term “debate” twice only here and in 2Cor. 12:20. My references to the “Debate” in our deliberations is derived from the Greek term “suzetesis” (#4803) from Acts 15:2+7, which means “mutual questioning, disputation, discussion.”

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Where in the definition dose it include to belittle, insult, question the integrity of you opponent, etc…? I have not found that yet

I agree with your sentiments Lars 7 it is time I lay this debate aside, at least for awhile. . Love always and May God Bless.
 

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Posted by epouraniois (Member # 5187) on :
 
terral wrote, 'Plastering a ton of verses apart from solid commentary is throwing effort after foolishness, because everyone reads those verses using their own interpretations'

this person states that Bible verses are foolishness unless they are accompanied by man's opinion.

he gives you sarcastic grief if you quote him, and sarcastic grief if you don't. it's clear as a bell folks, whether he can see it or not is irrelavent.

Does't everyone yet see that speaking to this person about lifting up Christ to His rightful position is bringing the entire board down?

This is exactly why the instruction to have no fellowship with these types and shadows are given to us, that when we come accross them we can know how to behave.

The Scriptures are clear on this point, 'let the dead bury the dead', 'receive him not into your house, neither bid him Godspeed, For he that biddeth him Godspeed is partaker of his evil deeds'.

Isn't it time we get back to Bible study?
 

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Posted by epouraniois (Member # 5187) on :
 
Some of you may have read this before, but I think it behooving to post it.


BIBLICAL DEMONIACS

‘And it came to pass, as we went to prayer, a certain damsel possessed with a spirit of divination met us, which brought her masters much gain by soothsaying: the same followed Paul and us, and cried, saying, These men are the servants of the most high God, which shew unto us the way of salvation. And this she did many days. But Paul, being grieved, turned and said to the spirit, I command thee in the name of Jesus Christ to come out of her. And he came out the same hour’ (Acts 16:16-18).

The A.V., in the margin, draws attention to the fact that ‘spirit of divination’ may be rendered ‘spirit of Python’. As this encounter with the powers of darkness at Philippi occurs at a most critical period in the history of the preaching of the gospel, we must seek to get as full an understanding as possible of what this expression involves.

Speaking of the agency of evil spirits, the Rev. Walter Scott writes:

‘Of all the devices which he has ever employed for these purposes, one of the most successful has been to invest, as far as he was able, error with the form, and to array it in the beauties of truth; to imitate all the methods which God has adopted to demonstrate the divinity of the true religion; and thus to transform himself into an angel of light. If God has raised up true, Satan has raised up lying prophets. If God has commissioned His servants to work real miracles, Satan has employed his to exhibit counterfeit ones. If to the Jews were committed the oracles of God, to the heathen were committed the pretended oracles of Delphos and Dodona, and many others. If the intrinsic excellence and the purifying tendency of the doctrines of the gospel, and the beauties of holiness adorning the character of those who have been commissioned to publish them, are amongst the means which God has employed to recommend His truth, the servants of Satan have been transformed as the ministers of righteousness, and have pretended deep concern for the happiness of those to whom they have delivered their message. And it has been thought, and is maintained at the present day by some, that his giving answers by the oracles to which our attention is now to be directed, has been amongst the principal means by which he has carried on his intercourse with our fallen sinful world’ (Existence of Evil Spirits).

There is a growing tendency to ‘explain away’ the references to demon possession which we find in the Scriptures. It is suggested that our Lord merely accommodated Himself to the superstitions of the age, and that, if He had lived today, He would have called the disease by its true name of ‘epilepsy’. The symptoms recorded in Matthew 17:15, Mark 9:17,18 and Luke 9:39 are certainly very like those of epilepsy, but the Lord’s words clearly attribute these very symptoms to actual demon possession. The demoniacs of the Gospels do not express themselves as they would if they were insane or hypochondriacal (Matt. 8:29; Mark 1:24); they answer questions put to them in a rational way. We also learn that these demoniacs knew that Jesus was the Son of God (Matt. 8:29), and the Christ (Luke 4:41).


The damsel that followed the apostle at Philippi was ‘possessed with a spirit of Python’. Python, in Greek mythology, was the name given to the Serpent that was born of the mud left by the flood. The Serpent was killed by the god Apollo, to whom it was supposed that the Serpent’s powers of prophecy and oracular utterance were transferred. Apollo’s oracle was at Delphi, where a priestess called Pythia gave cryptic replies to questioners’ enquiries.

The following are some of the cases of Satanic opposition encountered at various stages of the apostolic witness:

(1) At the entry of the gospel into Samaria, we find Satanic opposition represented by Simon the Sorcerer. This man ‘believed’ but had very questionable ideas concerning the bestowal of the Holy Spirit (Acts 8:9-24).
(2) At the entry of the gospel into Galatia, under the separate ministry of Paul and Barnabas, we find again
Satanic opposition represented by Elymas the Sorcerer, who was smitten with blindness, ‘not seeing the sun
for a season’ (Acts 13:6-11).
(3) At the entry of the gospel into Europe, we find Satanic opposition represented by the damsel possessed with the spirit of Python. This spirit was cast out (Acts 16:16-18).
(4) When Athens was visited, the city of the world’s wisdom, the name of the Lord was confused with those of the demons that played a prominent part in Greek idolatry, for the philosophers said: ‘He seemeth to be a setter forth of strange gods (Greek, demons)’ (Acts 17:18).
(5) At the separation of the church from the synagogue, we read that, ‘certain of the vagabond Jews, exorcists, took upon them to call over them which had evil spirits the name of the Lord Jesus’. These men were overpowered and wounded (Acts 19:13-16).

There is no reason to doubt that ‘Python’ was simply another name for ‘that old Serpent, the Devil’, and the apostle was not going beyond his experience when he spoke the comforting words of Romans 16:20: ‘The God of peace shall bruise Satan under your feet shortly’.

We observe here - for our learning and warning - that this demon-possessed woman spoke words of truth. No fault can be found with her statement: ‘These men are the servants of the most high God, which shew unto us the way of salvation’ (Acts 16:17).

This was certainly true, and the God Who sent them is given His true place and title. ‘The Most High ...’ is a title used elsewhere in the Acts by Stephen (Acts 7:48). They were also truly described as ‘servants’ on their own confession, for Paul uses the same word (doulos) again and again to define his own position as ‘a servant of Jesus Christ’ (Rom. 1:1). There are but five words used in the original for the phrase:

‘Which show unto us the way of salvation’, and it would be difficult for the wisest Christian to express in five words a truer and fuller synopsis of apostolic witness. The word ‘show’ here is kataggello, used in Acts 13:5,38 and 15:36 and elsewhere for Paul’s ‘preaching’. Also, the use of the word ‘Way’ as a symbol of the gospel is masterly; the same word is used elsewhere in Acts 9:2; 13:10; 18:26; 19:9,23; 22:4 and 24:14. Here, then, we have a perfect presentation of truth.

The apostle and his companions are ‘servants’, the One they serve is ‘The Most High God’, and their great work is ‘to shew unto us the way of salvation’. Yet we read that the apostle was grieved and commanded the spirit, in the name of Jesus Christ, to come out of the woman - ‘And he came out the same hour’. Satan has no conscience and no honour. He will persecute, imprison, and kill, or, on the other hand, he will quote Scripture and utter the most irreproachable commendation of the gospel and its messengers, but he has but one end - to deceive, to corrupt, to keep the Son of God, if possible, from His rightful throne.

From the Darby Bible
Lev 20:27 And if there be a man or a woman in whom is a spirit of Python or of divination, they shall certainly be put to death: they shall stone them with stones; their blood is upon them.

Deu 18:11 or a charmer, or one that inquireth of a spirit of Python, or a soothsayer, or one that consulteth the dead.

1Sa 28:7 Then said Saul to his servants, Seek me a woman that has a spirit of Python, that I may go to her and inquire of her. And his servants said to him, Behold, there is a woman who has a spirit of Python at En-dor.

1Sa 28:8 And Saul disguised himself, and put on other garments, and he went, and two men with him, and they came to the woman by night; and he said, I pray thee, divine to me by the spirit of Python, and bring me him up whom I shall name to thee.

1Ch 10:13 And Saul died for his unfaithfulness which he committed against Jehovah, because of the word of Jehovah which he kept not, and also for having inquired of the spirit of Python, asking counsel of it;

Act 16:16 And it came to pass as we were going to prayer that a certain female slave, having a spirit of Python, met us, who brought much profit to her masters by prophesying.

In Acts 16:16 we read that the damsel possessed by the spirit of Python ‘brought her masters much gain by sooth-saying’. The word ergasia, ‘gain’ occurs four times in the Acts, and in each case we find it to be the motive behind the persecution of the apostle (Acts 16:16,19; 19:24, 25). The flame of persecution, which was fanned by the Evil One, was directed to one end - to destroy the testimony of the gospel. The kind of instrument used to this end was immaterial so long as the end itself was achieved, and so we find him using both Jews and Gentiles. At one time it was Saul of Tarsus, a Hebrew and a Pharisee, whose moral uprightness was such that he could write of that period of his life: ‘touching the righteousness of the law blameless’. Saul would have scorned to have followed the rabble, or to have been moved by the desire for gain; nevertheless he persecuted the Church. The Jews, either by their religious leaders, or because of their own fanatical adherence to the tradition of their fathers, persecuted the Church. But we find that the Gentiles also persecuted the Church, moved by the fact that the Christian faith, by supplanting their idolatries, robbed them of their gains, and at length, Rome, the protector of the apostle during the Acts, became the great persecutor of the Church under the awful rule of Nero and his successors.

During the period covered by the first fifteen chapters of the Acts we read of persecution arising from the following causes:

(1) The leaders of Israel were grieved because the apostles preached, through Jesus, the resurrection of the dead (Acts 4).
(2) The leaders of Israel were cut to the heart by Stephen’s speech. They stoned him, and another persecution was begun (Acts 7 and 8:1).
(3) Saul of Tarsus, being troubled in his conscience (he was kicking against the goad at his conversion, 9:5)organised a great persecution of the Church (Acts 8 and 9).
(4) The Jews, being incensed at Saul’s conversion and subsequent witness, took counsel to kill him (Acts 9:23,29).
(5) Herod stretched forth his hands to vex certain of the Church. James was killed. Peter was imprisoned. He saw that it pleased the Jews (Acts 12).
(6) The Jews at Antioch, filled with envy at the evangelizing of the Gentiles, stirred up opposition - and expelled the apostles (Acts 13).
(7) The Jews from Antioch and Iconium (apparently from envy and hatred) followed Paul to Lystra and stoned him, leaving him for dead (Acts 14).

At Acts 16 we meet with the first Gentile persecution and another factor enters into the situation: ‘They saw that the hope of their gain was gone’. In a world composed as it is of religious zeal and sordid greed, it is practically impossible to witness for the truth without touching the interests and arousing the antagonism of one or other of these representative opponents. When one reads a funeral eulogy which declares that the man who has died ‘had not an enemy in the world’ one is inclined to think: He did nothing, therefore, in the cause of truth. Returning to Acts 16, we find that Paul and Silas are caught and taken before the rulers, the charge against them being:

‘These men, being Jews, do exceedingly trouble our city, and teach customs, which are not lawful for us to receive, neither to observe, being Romans’ (Acts 16:20,21).

‘And God wrought special miracles by the hands of Paul’ (Acts 19:11).

Why should God have wrought ‘special’ miracles by the hands of Paul, just at this point? The word translated ‘special’ is not easy to explain, because it changes its meaning and application at different times. The word tugchano means ‘to hit a mark, as with an arrow’ (Homer II. xii. 394), and then, by an easy transition, ‘to hit upon’, ‘to light upon’, with the element of chance attached, as in Acts 17:17, ‘to meet by chance’ (paratugchano). Ho tuchon means ‘an everyday man’, or, with the negative, ‘no ordinary man’; and the word is used by Josephus in describing Herod’s temple as ‘no common work’.

Come back now to the record of Acts 19, notice the two kinds of miracles that are particularized.
‘So that from his body were brought unto the sick handkerchiefs or aprons, and the diseases departed from them, and the evil spirits went out of them’ (Acts 19:12).

These miracles are said to be ‘special’ - miracles with ‘no chance work about them’, intended to ‘hit the mark’. Paul was in a city full of ‘magic’ (see 19:19). In his opening ministry at Philippi he had been the subject of Satanic attack through the instrumentality of the damsel possessed by the spirit of Python, and here again in Ephesus we have the same sort of contrast. The complete failure of the Jewish exorcists to cast out the evil spirit by calling over him the name of ‘Jesus’, is exactly parallel with Paul’s refusal to allow Satan to bear witness to the fact that he was showing to the people ‘the way of salvation’.

As a result both of the positive witness of the ‘special’ miracles, and utter failure of the Jewish exorcists, we read that ‘fear fell on them all, and the name of the Lord Jesus was magnified’. Moreover, there was a public confession and a burning of the books relating to ‘curious arts’, And they reckoned up the prices of them, and found it fifty thousand pieces of silver.
 

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Posted by yahsway (Member # 3738) on :
 
Terral, are you familiar with The Way International or any of its splinter groups?
 

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Posted by BORN AGAIN (Member # 5) on :
 
2 Chronicles 6:30
Then hear from heaven Your dwelling place, and forgive, and render to every man according to all his ways, whose heart You know; (for You only know the hearts of the children of men.)

This is also said of the Lord Kurios Jeshuah-Jesus:

Luke 9:47
And Jesus, perceiving the thought of their heart, took a child, and set him by him.

John 2:25
And needed not that any should testify of man: for he {Jesus} knew what was in man.

BORN AGAIN by the great of Lord Jeshuah
 

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