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Topic: Jesus Is God
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BORN AGAIN
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2 Chronicles 6:30
Then hear from heaven Your dwelling place, and forgive, and render to every man according to all his ways, whose heart You know; (for You only know the hearts of the children of men.)
This is also said of the Lord Kurios Jeshuah-Jesus:
Luke 9:47
And Jesus, perceiving the thought of their heart, took a child, and set him by him.
John 2:25
And needed not that any should testify of man: for he {Jesus} knew what was in man.
BORN AGAIN by the great ![[Cross]](graemlins/cross.gif) of Lord Jeshuah
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yahsway
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Terral, are you familiar with The Way International or any of its splinter groups?
Posts: 1238 | From: Tennessee | Registered: Aug 2004
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epouraniois
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Some of you may have read this before, but I think it behooving to post it.
BIBLICAL DEMONIACS
‘And it came to pass, as we went to prayer, a certain damsel possessed with a spirit of divination met us, which brought her masters much gain by soothsaying: the same followed Paul and us, and cried, saying, These men are the servants of the most high God, which shew unto us the way of salvation. And this she did many days. But Paul, being grieved, turned and said to the spirit, I command thee in the name of Jesus Christ to come out of her. And he came out the same hour’ (Acts 16:16-18).
The A.V., in the margin, draws attention to the fact that ‘spirit of divination’ may be rendered ‘spirit of Python’. As this encounter with the powers of darkness at Philippi occurs at a most critical period in the history of the preaching of the gospel, we must seek to get as full an understanding as possible of what this expression involves.
Speaking of the agency of evil spirits, the Rev. Walter Scott writes:
‘Of all the devices which he has ever employed for these purposes, one of the most successful has been to invest, as far as he was able, error with the form, and to array it in the beauties of truth; to imitate all the methods which God has adopted to demonstrate the divinity of the true religion; and thus to transform himself into an angel of light. If God has raised up true, Satan has raised up lying prophets. If God has commissioned His servants to work real miracles, Satan has employed his to exhibit counterfeit ones. If to the Jews were committed the oracles of God, to the heathen were committed the pretended oracles of Delphos and Dodona, and many others. If the intrinsic excellence and the purifying tendency of the doctrines of the gospel, and the beauties of holiness adorning the character of those who have been commissioned to publish them, are amongst the means which God has employed to recommend His truth, the servants of Satan have been transformed as the ministers of righteousness, and have pretended deep concern for the happiness of those to whom they have delivered their message. And it has been thought, and is maintained at the present day by some, that his giving answers by the oracles to which our attention is now to be directed, has been amongst the principal means by which he has carried on his intercourse with our fallen sinful world’ (Existence of Evil Spirits).
There is a growing tendency to ‘explain away’ the references to demon possession which we find in the Scriptures. It is suggested that our Lord merely accommodated Himself to the superstitions of the age, and that, if He had lived today, He would have called the disease by its true name of ‘epilepsy’. The symptoms recorded in Matthew 17:15, Mark 9:17,18 and Luke 9:39 are certainly very like those of epilepsy, but the Lord’s words clearly attribute these very symptoms to actual demon possession. The demoniacs of the Gospels do not express themselves as they would if they were insane or hypochondriacal (Matt. 8:29; Mark 1:24); they answer questions put to them in a rational way. We also learn that these demoniacs knew that Jesus was the Son of God (Matt. 8:29), and the Christ (Luke 4:41).
The damsel that followed the apostle at Philippi was ‘possessed with a spirit of Python’. Python, in Greek mythology, was the name given to the Serpent that was born of the mud left by the flood. The Serpent was killed by the god Apollo, to whom it was supposed that the Serpent’s powers of prophecy and oracular utterance were transferred. Apollo’s oracle was at Delphi, where a priestess called Pythia gave cryptic replies to questioners’ enquiries.
The following are some of the cases of Satanic opposition encountered at various stages of the apostolic witness:
(1) At the entry of the gospel into Samaria, we find Satanic opposition represented by Simon the Sorcerer. This man ‘believed’ but had very questionable ideas concerning the bestowal of the Holy Spirit (Acts 8:9-24).
(2) At the entry of the gospel into Galatia, under the separate ministry of Paul and Barnabas, we find again
Satanic opposition represented by Elymas the Sorcerer, who was smitten with blindness, ‘not seeing the sun
for a season’ (Acts 13:6-11).
(3) At the entry of the gospel into Europe, we find Satanic opposition represented by the damsel possessed with the spirit of Python. This spirit was cast out (Acts 16:16-18).
(4) When Athens was visited, the city of the world’s wisdom, the name of the Lord was confused with those of the demons that played a prominent part in Greek idolatry, for the philosophers said: ‘He seemeth to be a setter forth of strange gods (Greek, demons)’ (Acts 17:18).
(5) At the separation of the church from the synagogue, we read that, ‘certain of the vagabond Jews, exorcists, took upon them to call over them which had evil spirits the name of the Lord Jesus’. These men were overpowered and wounded (Acts 19:13-16).
There is no reason to doubt that ‘Python’ was simply another name for ‘that old Serpent, the Devil’, and the apostle was not going beyond his experience when he spoke the comforting words of Romans 16:20: ‘The God of peace shall bruise Satan under your feet shortly’.
We observe here - for our learning and warning - that this demon-possessed woman spoke words of truth. No fault can be found with her statement: ‘These men are the servants of the most high God, which shew unto us the way of salvation’ (Acts 16:17).
This was certainly true, and the God Who sent them is given His true place and title. ‘The Most High ...’ is a title used elsewhere in the Acts by Stephen (Acts 7:48). They were also truly described as ‘servants’ on their own confession, for Paul uses the same word (doulos) again and again to define his own position as ‘a servant of Jesus Christ’ (Rom. 1:1). There are but five words used in the original for the phrase:
‘Which show unto us the way of salvation’, and it would be difficult for the wisest Christian to express in five words a truer and fuller synopsis of apostolic witness. The word ‘show’ here is kataggello, used in Acts 13:5,38 and 15:36 and elsewhere for Paul’s ‘preaching’. Also, the use of the word ‘Way’ as a symbol of the gospel is masterly; the same word is used elsewhere in Acts 9:2; 13:10; 18:26; 19:9,23; 22:4 and 24:14. Here, then, we have a perfect presentation of truth.
The apostle and his companions are ‘servants’, the One they serve is ‘The Most High God’, and their great work is ‘to shew unto us the way of salvation’. Yet we read that the apostle was grieved and commanded the spirit, in the name of Jesus Christ, to come out of the woman - ‘And he came out the same hour’. Satan has no conscience and no honour. He will persecute, imprison, and kill, or, on the other hand, he will quote Scripture and utter the most irreproachable commendation of the gospel and its messengers, but he has but one end - to deceive, to corrupt, to keep the Son of God, if possible, from His rightful throne.
From the Darby Bible
Lev 20:27 And if there be a man or a woman in whom is a spirit of Python or of divination, they shall certainly be put to death: they shall stone them with stones; their blood is upon them.
Deu 18:11 or a charmer, or one that inquireth of a spirit of Python, or a soothsayer, or one that consulteth the dead.
1Sa 28:7 Then said Saul to his servants, Seek me a woman that has a spirit of Python, that I may go to her and inquire of her. And his servants said to him, Behold, there is a woman who has a spirit of Python at En-dor.
1Sa 28:8 And Saul disguised himself, and put on other garments, and he went, and two men with him, and they came to the woman by night; and he said, I pray thee, divine to me by the spirit of Python, and bring me him up whom I shall name to thee.
1Ch 10:13 And Saul died for his unfaithfulness which he committed against Jehovah, because of the word of Jehovah which he kept not, and also for having inquired of the spirit of Python, asking counsel of it;
Act 16:16 And it came to pass as we were going to prayer that a certain female slave, having a spirit of Python, met us, who brought much profit to her masters by prophesying.
In Acts 16:16 we read that the damsel possessed by the spirit of Python ‘brought her masters much gain by sooth-saying’. The word ergasia, ‘gain’ occurs four times in the Acts, and in each case we find it to be the motive behind the persecution of the apostle (Acts 16:16,19; 19:24, 25). The flame of persecution, which was fanned by the Evil One, was directed to one end - to destroy the testimony of the gospel. The kind of instrument used to this end was immaterial so long as the end itself was achieved, and so we find him using both Jews and Gentiles. At one time it was Saul of Tarsus, a Hebrew and a Pharisee, whose moral uprightness was such that he could write of that period of his life: ‘touching the righteousness of the law blameless’. Saul would have scorned to have followed the rabble, or to have been moved by the desire for gain; nevertheless he persecuted the Church. The Jews, either by their religious leaders, or because of their own fanatical adherence to the tradition of their fathers, persecuted the Church. But we find that the Gentiles also persecuted the Church, moved by the fact that the Christian faith, by supplanting their idolatries, robbed them of their gains, and at length, Rome, the protector of the apostle during the Acts, became the great persecutor of the Church under the awful rule of Nero and his successors.
During the period covered by the first fifteen chapters of the Acts we read of persecution arising from the following causes:
(1) The leaders of Israel were grieved because the apostles preached, through Jesus, the resurrection of the dead (Acts 4).
(2) The leaders of Israel were cut to the heart by Stephen’s speech. They stoned him, and another persecution was begun (Acts 7 and 8:1).
(3) Saul of Tarsus, being troubled in his conscience (he was kicking against the goad at his conversion, 9:5)organised a great persecution of the Church (Acts 8 and 9).
(4) The Jews, being incensed at Saul’s conversion and subsequent witness, took counsel to kill him (Acts 9:23,29).
(5) Herod stretched forth his hands to vex certain of the Church. James was killed. Peter was imprisoned. He saw that it pleased the Jews (Acts 12).
(6) The Jews at Antioch, filled with envy at the evangelizing of the Gentiles, stirred up opposition - and expelled the apostles (Acts 13).
(7) The Jews from Antioch and Iconium (apparently from envy and hatred) followed Paul to Lystra and stoned him, leaving him for dead (Acts 14).
At Acts 16 we meet with the first Gentile persecution and another factor enters into the situation: ‘They saw that the hope of their gain was gone’. In a world composed as it is of religious zeal and sordid greed, it is practically impossible to witness for the truth without touching the interests and arousing the antagonism of one or other of these representative opponents. When one reads a funeral eulogy which declares that the man who has died ‘had not an enemy in the world’ one is inclined to think: He did nothing, therefore, in the cause of truth. Returning to Acts 16, we find that Paul and Silas are caught and taken before the rulers, the charge against them being:
‘These men, being Jews, do exceedingly trouble our city, and teach customs, which are not lawful for us to receive, neither to observe, being Romans’ (Acts 16:20,21).
‘And God wrought special miracles by the hands of Paul’ (Acts 19:11).
Why should God have wrought ‘special’ miracles by the hands of Paul, just at this point? The word translated ‘special’ is not easy to explain, because it changes its meaning and application at different times. The word tugchano means ‘to hit a mark, as with an arrow’ (Homer II. xii. 394), and then, by an easy transition, ‘to hit upon’, ‘to light upon’, with the element of chance attached, as in Acts 17:17, ‘to meet by chance’ (paratugchano). Ho tuchon means ‘an everyday man’, or, with the negative, ‘no ordinary man’; and the word is used by Josephus in describing Herod’s temple as ‘no common work’.
Come back now to the record of Acts 19, notice the two kinds of miracles that are particularized.
‘So that from his body were brought unto the sick handkerchiefs or aprons, and the diseases departed from them, and the evil spirits went out of them’ (Acts 19:12).
These miracles are said to be ‘special’ - miracles with ‘no chance work about them’, intended to ‘hit the mark’. Paul was in a city full of ‘magic’ (see 19:19). In his opening ministry at Philippi he had been the subject of Satanic attack through the instrumentality of the damsel possessed by the spirit of Python, and here again in Ephesus we have the same sort of contrast. The complete failure of the Jewish exorcists to cast out the evil spirit by calling over him the name of ‘Jesus’, is exactly parallel with Paul’s refusal to allow Satan to bear witness to the fact that he was showing to the people ‘the way of salvation’.
As a result both of the positive witness of the ‘special’ miracles, and utter failure of the Jewish exorcists, we read that ‘fear fell on them all, and the name of the Lord Jesus was magnified’. Moreover, there was a public confession and a burning of the books relating to ‘curious arts’, And they reckoned up the prices of them, and found it fifty thousand pieces of silver.
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epouraniois
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terral wrote, 'Plastering a ton of verses apart from solid commentary is throwing effort after foolishness, because everyone reads those verses using their own interpretations'
this person states that Bible verses are foolishness unless they are accompanied by man's opinion.
he gives you sarcastic grief if you quote him, and sarcastic grief if you don't. it's clear as a bell folks, whether he can see it or not is irrelavent.
Does't everyone yet see that speaking to this person about lifting up Christ to His rightful position is bringing the entire board down?
This is exactly why the instruction to have no fellowship with these types and shadows are given to us, that when we come accross them we can know how to behave.
The Scriptures are clear on this point, 'let the dead bury the dead', 'receive him not into your house, neither bid him Godspeed, For he that biddeth him Godspeed is partaker of his evil deeds'.
Isn't it time we get back to Bible study?
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Adv.Christian
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quote:
Terral
Nobody else has even used the term except for “Terral.” Therefore, let’s refine your statement to include the only other person to use the word in this “Debate.” The Greek term “eris” (#2054) is used eight times in the New Testament and is NEVER translated ‘debate’ in the New American Standard Bible. You are using the Old King James that translates this term “debate” twice only here and in 2Cor. 12:20. My references to the “Debate” in our deliberations is derived from the Greek term “suzetesis” (#4803) from Acts 15:2+7, which means “mutual questioning, disputation, discussion.”
Where in the definition dose it include to belittle, insult, question the integrity of you opponent, etc…? I have not found that yet
I agree with your sentiments Lars 7 it is time I lay this debate aside, at least for awhile. . Love always and May God Bless.
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A person talking can not be listening; A person not listening can not be learning.
Posts: 299 | From: Raleigh/North Carolina | Registered: Jun 2004
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epouraniois
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quote:
Originally posted by Lars7:
Romans 1:29
Being filled with all unrighteousness, fornication, wickedness, covetousness, maliciousness; full of envy, murder, debate, deceit, malignity; whisperers,
It is very interesting to see some of the things included in this list of abominations that many people would not consider sin or certainly not a "bad" sin like others on the list. For instance, the word "debate" means "to quarrel or argue." Some people think that is perfectly okay, but Paul lists it right along with murder and sexual sins.
The word "whisperers" means "gossips." A "backbiter" is a person who slanders the character or reputation of another when they are not present. Pride is listed among these sins that are an abomination to God, as well as being disobedient to parents. A "covenant-breaker" is a person who cannot be trusted to keep his word.
The truth is, there are no little sins or acceptable sins. All unrighteousness is sin (1 Jn. 5:17) and should be rejected.
Thank you for the edification. Timely indeed.
2Ti 3:16
All Scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:
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Lars7
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posted
Romans 1:29
Being filled with all unrighteousness, fornication, wickedness, covetousness, maliciousness; full of envy, murder, debate, deceit, malignity; whisperers,
It is very interesting to see some of the things included in this list of abominations that many people would not consider sin or certainly not a "bad" sin like others on the list. For instance, the word "debate" means "to quarrel or argue." Some people think that is perfectly okay, but Paul lists it right along with murder and sexual sins.
The word "whisperers" means "gossips." A "backbiter" is a person who slanders the character or reputation of another when they are not present. Pride is listed among these sins that are an abomination to God, as well as being disobedient to parents. A "covenant-breaker" is a person who cannot be trusted to keep his word.
The truth is, there are no little sins or acceptable sins. All unrighteousness is sin (1 Jn. 5:17) and should be rejected.
Posts: 49 | From: Ma | Registered: Jul 2005
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Adv.Christian
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Hello all; I enjoyed reading over the last few post but I must admit I find it intresting with yours Terral. quote:
I looked back at your original post and have no clue as to what you are talking about. The only two lines I added were above and below my own quote to separate that from the remainder of the post. Are you talking about the two dotted lines?
You inserted your commentary line into the section please quote the full context of the section to which you refer. Thank you
quote:
Terral
Jesus answered them, "Has it not been written in your Law, 'I said, you are gods'? "If he called them gods, to whom the word of God came (and the Scripture cannot be broken), do you say of Him, whom the Father sanctified and sent into the world, 'You are blaspheming,' because I said, 'I am the SON OF GOD'? John 10:34-36.
Christian >> Why did you stop there?
I stopped there because Christ just refuted your assertion that He was pretending to be God.
The thing is which you decided not to include is Jesus’ continuing remarks
John 10:38 But if I do, though ye believe not me, believe the works: that ye may know, and believe,that the Father is in me, and I in him.
quote:
Terral Christ saying “I and the Father are One” does not equal “Jesus = God
Well that statement needs no comment.
quote:
Terral
If that were the case, then John the Baptist would have simply said Jesus is God in John 1:34, which he DID NOT say. The reason you see no Jesus is God Almighty quotes in the entire Bible is because that would contradict John the Baptist and Peter (Matt. 16:16) and Paul (Rom. 1:4) and Christ Himself (Rev. 2:18). My Bible has no contradictions and every word says Jesus Christ is the Son of God AND God is “His God and Father.”
The only way “that” would contradict other scripture is if someone decided to give certain scripture a higher level of importance over other scripture. The entire scripture is given in order to reveal an entirety of God’s Love and plan for mankind which is often suppressed by attempting to find contradictions which are not there.
quote:
Terral
We know each other by the substance or lack thereof contained in our arguments. Have you ever considered before that a triune relationship exists between the Father (spirit), Son (blood) and Holy Spirit (water) like in a man of spirit (spirit), soul (blood) and body (water)? How about the fact that this simple arrangement also mirrors the family of man (spirit), seed (blood) and woman (water)? Or that bread = oil (spirit), broken grain (blood) and water (water) tested by fire? Or that Christ is the ‘Bread of Life’ (John 6:48) because the Father (spirit; John 14:10+11) was “IN” Christ and the Son (blood) was “full of the Holy Spirit” (water; Luke 4:1)??
I have studied this; however I also continued by studying the relationship of The Trinity to the point of looking at the totality of Gad being all. I have a thought for you; I suspect your answer will be something like this is on in scripture but I give you an example which similar to one given elsewhere by another member anyhow. If you have three glasses of water at 16 oz each, and they came from one source what is the difference in them? Now what happens when they are poured back together, can you tell what water came from what glass? God is all three parts of the Trinity which would make Jesus =God the Father=Holy Spirit=God (Man my math professor would have a fit at that math equation)
quote:
Terral
You people do not love Jesus as the Son of God coming to explain the “God” (John 1:18) that NO ONE has EVER SEEN. You are infatuated with the notion of elevating the Son into the position of His God and Father in reckless abandon for everything Scripture says. This side of the Debate loves the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ AND His Only Begotten Son AND could never obliterate One by replacing Him with the Other.
There you go again deciding to let others know their fellings and beliefs…I love it.
By the way if as you say God is not all three why was it the Holy Spirit descended on Mary, why not the power of the Highest only?
Luke 1:34-35 Then said Mary unto the angel, How shall this be, being I know not a man? 35 And the angel answered and said unto her, The Holy Ghost shall come upon thee, and the power of the Highest shall overshadow thee: therefore also that Holy Thing which shall be born of thee shall be called the Son of God
Look back at the water above.
quote:
Terral
Where is your “Jesus is God” quote? Listing a mile of verses does not write one word of commentary for anyone. If I am here to be judged by you all, so that God’s justice may see the sword fall and sever each from His Infinite Realm, then so be it. All of you have been warned . . .
Which do you want? If commentary is given quote:
Terral
Who asked for commentary on the whole chapter of Galatians 3? Not me. A doctrinal outline includes precepts teaching your ‘doctrine of salvation.’ You are rambling about something else entirely . . .
taken from the topic “Who are called and who are chosen?
As to where is the Jesus is God quote; John 10:30 comes to mind but you can go back up to Epouraniois’ post.
And I agree Epouraniois with those above, that was a well written and concise post, thanks
As always my love to all and May God Bless. (I pray He removes the water from my head, don’t you Terral?)
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A person talking can not be listening; A person not listening can not be learning.
Posts: 299 | From: Raleigh/North Carolina | Registered: Jun 2004
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Caretaker
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1 John 4:
1: Beloved, believe not every spirit, but try the spirits whether they are of God: because many false prophets are gone out into the world.
2: Hereby know ye the Spirit of God: Every spirit that confesseth that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is of God:
3: And every spirit that confesseth not that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is not of God: and this is that spirit of antichrist, whereof ye have heard that it should come; and even now already is it in the world.
1 Tim 3:
16: And without controversy great is the mystery of godliness: God was manifest in the flesh, justified in the Spirit, seen of angels, preached unto the Gentiles, believed on in the world, received up into glory.
John 1:
1: In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God .
2: The same was in the beginning with God.
14: And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth.
15: John bare witness of him, and cried, saying, This was he of whom I spake, He that cometh after me is preferred before me: for he was before me.
16: And of his fulness have all we received, and grace for grace.
17: For the law was given by Moses, but grace and truth came by Jesus Christ.
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A Servant of Christ,
Drew
1 Tim. 3:
16: And without controversy great is the mystery of godliness: God was manifest in the flesh..
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Bloodbought
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posted
Great Post Epouraniois, to God be the Glory! Amen! ![[thumbsup2]](graemlins/thumbsup2.gif)
Posts: 822 | From: Ireland | Registered: Feb 2005
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yahsway
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I second that! Agreed also and Amen!
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helpforhomeschoolers
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![[clap2]](graemlins/clap2.gif)
Epouraniois we may not agree on where to rightly divide the word but on this post we agree! Amen!!
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epouraniois
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quote:
Terral
No sir. I am a non-Denominational Christian and a member of the ‘body of Christ’ (Eph. 4:12)
I don't see how, God knows, but the Bible is very clear, there is no Savior but Jehovah, the creator of the heavens and the earth.
Our Bible is repleat with direct statments to Chirsts' diety, many, many direct statments.
The retorical question is, what kind of a Christian denies God has come in the flesh? Is it the overcomer who denies Christ? Is that what is written all over the book?
What did the risen LORD speak in their private Bible seminar for fourty days? Well, something like this, the short version:
"CHRIST" AND "THE SCRIPTURES."
"His name is called THE WORD OF GOD," Rev 19:13.
They "pressed upon Him to hear THE WORD OF GOD," Luke 5:1.
The Prince of PEACE, Isa 9:6.
The Gospel of PEACE, Rom 10:15.
Jesus said,..."No man cometh unto the Father, but BY ME," John 14:6.
"Make me to go in the PATH of Thy Commandments," Psa 119:35.
"Jesus saith unto him, I am THE WAY," John 14:6.
"Teach me, O Lord, THE WAY of Thy statutes," Psa 119:33.
"I am...THE TRUTH," John 14:6.
"Thy Word is TRUTH," John 17:17.
Christ—"Full of grace and TRUTH," John 1:14.
"All Thy Commandments are TRUTH," Psa 119:151.
"These things saith He...that is TRUE," Rev 3:7.
"The Judgments of the Lord are TRUE," Psa 19:9.
"Jesus Christ. This is the true God, and eternal LIFE," 1 John 5:20.
"Holding forth the Word of LIFE," Phil 2:16.
"A bone of Him shall not be broken," John 19:36.
"The scripture cannot be broken," John 10:35.
"I am the Living Bread...if any man eat of this Bread he shall LIVE for ever," John 6:51.
"Man shall not LIVE by bread alone, but by every Word of God," Luke 4:4.
"With Thee is the FOUNTAIN OF LIFE," Psa 36:9.
"Thy Law...is a FOUNTAIN OF LIFE," Prov 13:14.
Jesus said, "I am the LIGHT of the World," John 8:12.
David said, "Thy Word is a LIGHT unto my path," Psa 119:105.
"The Life was the LIGHT," John 1:4.
"The Law is LIGHT," Prov 6:23.
"Thou art my LAMP, O Lord," 2 Sam 22:29.
"Thy Word is a LAMP unto my feet," Psa 119:105.
"I, saith the Lord, will be unto her a wall of FIRE," Zech 2:5.
"Is not My Word like as a FIRE? saith the Lord," Jer 23:29.
"The Light of Israel shall be for a FIRE," Isa 10:17.
"I will make My Words in thy mouth FIRE," Jer 5:14.
"To you which believe, He is PRECIOUS," 1 Peter 2:7.
"Exceeding great and PRECIOUS Promises," 2 Peter 1:4.
"My beloved is...chiefest among ten THOUSAND," Song 5:10.
"The Law of Thy mouth is better unto me than THOUSANDS of gold and silver," Psa 119:72.
"His Mouth is most SWEET," Song 5:16.
"How SWEET are Thy Words unto my taste," Psa 119:103.
"His Name shall be called WONDERFUL," Isa 9:6.
"Thy Testimonies are WONDERFUL," Psa 119:129.
"Christ, the POWER OF GOD," 1 Cor 1:24.
"The Gospel is the POWER OF GOD," Rom 1:16.
Lord, "Thou art GOOD, and doest Good," Psa 119:68.
"GOOD is the Word of the Lord," Isa 39:8.
"Ye have known Him that is FROM THE BEGINNING," 1 John 2:13.
"Thy Word is true FROM THE BEGINNING," Psa 119:160.
"From Everlasting to EVERLASTING Thou art God," Psa 90:2.
"The righteousness of Thy Testimonies is EVERLASTING," Psa 119:144.
"Thy throne, O God, is FOR EVER AND EVER," Heb 1:8.
"Thy testimonies,...Thou hast founded them FOR EVER," Psa 119:152.
"The Lord shall ENDURE for ever," Psa 9:7.
"The Word of the Lord ENDURETH for ever," 1 Peter 1:25.
"Christ ABIDETH for ever," John 12:34.
"The Word of God...ABIDETH for ever," 1 Peter 1:23.
"Worship Him that LIVETH for ever," Rev 4:10.
"The Word of God LIVETH for ever," 1 Peter 1:23.
Christ's Kingdom "shall STAND FOR EVER," Dan 2:44.
"The Word of our God shall STAND FOR EVER," Isa 40:8.
The STONE..."on whomsoever it shall fall, it will grind him to powder," Luke 20:18.
"Is not my Word...saith the Lord, like a HAMMER that breaketh the rock in pieces?" Jer 23:29.
Christ, "A STUMBLING Stone," Rom 9:33.
They "STUMBLE at the Word," 1 Peter 2:8.
"Lo, I am with you ALWAY, even unto the end of the world," Matt 28:20.
"Thy commandments...are EVER WITH ME," Psa 119:98.
"Christ may DWELL in your hearts by faith," Eph 3:17.
"Let the Word of Christ DWELL in you richly," Col 3:16.
Christ said, "ABIDE in me, and I IN YOU," John 15:4.
"If... my Words ABIDE in you," John 15:7.
"Hereby we know that He ABIDETH in us," 1 John 3:24.
"The Word of God ABIDETH in you," 1 John 2:14.
Christ called, "FAITHFUL and true," Rev 19:11.
"Thy Testimonies...are very FAITHFUL," Psa 119:138.
"Out of His mouth goeth a sharp SWORD," Rev 19:15.
"The Word of God...is sharper than any two-edged SWORD," Heb 4:12.*
* Heb 4:12 probably refers to both the Living Word and the written Word also.
"The Lord TRIETH the Righteous," Psa 11:5.
"The Word of the Lord TRIED him," Psa 105:19.
Christ a "TRIED Stone," Isa 28:16.
"The Word of the Lord is TRIED," Psa 18:30.
We are "BORN OF God," 1 John 5:18.
"BORN...by the Word of God," 1 Peter 1:23.
"BEGOTTEN...by...Jesus Christ," 1 Peter 1:3.
BEGOTTEN...through The Gospel," 1 Cor 4:15.
"The Son QUICKENETH whom He will," John 5:21.
"Thy Word hath QUICKENED me," Psa 119:50.
"You hath he QUICKENED who were dead," &c., Eph 2:1.
"Thy Precepts...with them thou hast QUICKENED me," Psa 119:93.
"He that eateth me, even he shall LIVE by me," John 6:57.
"Desire the sincere milk of The Word, that ye may GROW thereby," 1 Peter 2:2.
"Christ hath made us FREE," Gal 5:1.
"The Truth shall make you FREE," John 8:32.
"The Blood of Jesus Christ...CLEANSETH us from all sin," 1 John 1:7.
"YE are CLEAN through the Word which I have spoken," John 15:3.
Christ "is able also to SAVE them to the uttermost that come unto God by Him," Heb 7:25.
"Receive...the engrafted Word, which is able to SAVE your souls," James 1:21.
"SANCTIFIED in Christ Jesus," 1 Cor 1:2.
"SANCTIFIED by the Word of God and prayer," 1 Tim 4:5.
"SANCTIFIED through the offering of the body of Jesus Christ once for all," Heb 10:10.
"SANCTIFY them through THY TRUTH. Thy Word is truth," John 17:17.
"Christ Jesus, who of God is made unto us WISDOM," 1 Cor 1:30.
"The Holy Scriptures...able to make thee WISE unto salvation," 2 Tim 3:15.
Christ "HEALED them," Matt 4:24.
"He sent His Word and HEALED them," Psa 107:20.
"Striving according to His Working which WORKETH in me mightily," Col 1:29.
"The Word of God which effectually WORKETH also in you that believe," 1 Thess 2:13.
"The Lord Jesus Christ...shall JUDGE the quick and the dead," 2 Tim 4:1.
"The Word that I have spoken...shall JUDGE him," John 12:48.
"I will go unto God, my exceeding Joy," Psa 43:4.
"Thy Word was unto me the JOY and rejoicing of my heart," Jer 15:16.
"Holy men of God spake as they were moved by the Holy Ghost", "he shall testify of me".
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Bloodbought
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Jesus is God.
Phil 2:5 Let this mind be in you, which was also in Christ Jesus:
6Who, being in the form of God, thought it not robbery to be equal with God:
Christ claims it is no robbery for Him to be equal with God. Either Christ is equal with God or He is a liar. I believe Christ.
Jesus had power to lay down His life and take it again.
Jesus said.
John 10:17 Therefore doth my Father love me, because I lay down my life, that I might take it again.
18 No man taketh it from me, but I lay it down of myself. I have power to lay it down, and I have power to take it again. This commandment have I received of my Father.
Paul said.
Rom 10:9 That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead , thou shalt be saved.
Since it was God that raised Jesus from the dead, either Jesus was a liar or He was God when He said He could raise Himself from the dead. I believe Jesus.
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Adv.Christian
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Terral you inserted a line where there was no line
quote:
Adv. Christian >> So before you say that this is the wrong interpretation because of our understanding let us see how the ones Jesus was talking to understood what He said.
John the Baptist already settled Christ’s true identity in John 1:34. The rest is academic . . .
Adv. Christian Quotes >> John 10:31 Then the Jews took up stones again to stone him. 32 Jesus answered them, Many good works have I shewed you from my Father; for which of those works do ye stone me? 33 The Jews answered him, saying, For a good work we stone thee not; but for blasphemy; and because that thou, being a man, makest thyself God.
Adv. Christian’s Commentary >> NONE.
As you love to say “please quote me” not what you wish I said.
As to your line on John 1:34 if you would include the rest of the scriptures yyou would have to say John the Baptist taught Jesus was a lamb for in John 1:29 he states Behold the Lamb of God. ![[Eek!]](eek.gif)
You added quote:
“Jesus answered them, "Has it not been written in your Law, 'I said, you are gods'? "If he called them gods, to whom the word of God came (and the Scripture cannot be broken), do you say of Him, whom the Father sanctified and sent into the world, 'You are blaspheming,' because I said, 'I am the SON OF GOD'? John 10:34-36.
Why did you stop there? Lets see what verses 36 and 37 say
36 Say ye of him, whom the Father hath sanctified, and sent into the world, Thou blasphemest; because I said, I am the Son of God? 37 If I do not the works of my Father, believe me not. 38 But if I do, though ye believe not me, believe the works: that ye may know, and believe, that the Father is in me, and I in him.
Now back to the question, do you refute the statement of Christ quoted in John 10:30?
Do not worry about answering that question, I already know the answer, John the Baptist said….
By the way on another note
quote:
Terral
I understand the concept of The Son (soul) and the Father (spirit) being “one” with greater understanding and conviction than you. The Holy Spirit (water) is His Body and they are ‘one’ also for the very same reasons.
I am glad you know me so well and my limits. May God Bless.
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A person talking can not be listening; A person not listening can not be learning.
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Adv.Christian
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Terral you like to thank people for not quoting you so;
Terral quote:
The point is very simple:
1. God = the “one God.”
2. One Mediator* = “Christ Jesus” between God and men.
3. One Mesities* forbids Christ Jesus from being the ‘one God’ for whom He Mediates.
In a nut shell you refute Jesus being God correct?
Dose that mean you also refute Christ in His own statement?
John 10:30 - I and my Father are one.
So before you say that this is the wrong interpretation because of our understandin let us see how the ones Jesus was talking to understood what He said.
John 10:31 Then the Jews took up stones again to stone him. 32 Jesus answered them, Many good works have I shewed you from my Father; for which of those works do ye stone me? 33 The Jews answered him, saying, For a good work we stone thee not; but for blasphemy; and because that thou, being a man, makest thyself God.
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A person talking can not be listening; A person not listening can not be learning.
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Jesus Christ is Worshiped as God
There is probably no sin more condemned in the Bible than that of idolatry. The Bible teaches that we are to worship God alone. Why? Because only God is worthy to be worshiped. God's law says, "Thou shalt have none other gods before me.... Thou shalt not bow down thyself unto them, nor serve them" (Dt. 5:7-9). When tempted by Satan, Christ said, "Get thee behind me, Satan: for it is written, Thou shalt worship the Lord thy God, and him only shalt thou serve" (Lk. 4:8). When the Apostle John fell in worship before one of God's mighty angels, the angel rebuked him and told him to worship God. "And I John saw these things, and heard them. And when I had heard and seen, I fell down to worship before the feet of the angel which showed me these things. Then saith he unto me, See thou do it not: for I am thy fellowservant, and of thy brethren the prophets, and of them which keep the sayings of this book: worship God" (Rev. 22:8-9). When Cornelius the centurion fell in worship before the Apostle Peter, Peter clearly rejected the offer of worship: "And as Peter was coming in, Cornelius met him, and fell down at his feet, and worshipped him. But Peter took him up, saying, Stand up; I myself also am a man" (Ac. 10:25-26).
The contrast with the Lord Jesus Christ is startling: from His birth (Mt. 2:1-2) to His ascension (Lk. 24:51-52), Christ is openly and continuously worshiped by His disciples. Did Jesus reject this worship, as Peter and the angel did? No, Jesus openly accepted and even commended such activity. What could this mean except that "That same person who is known to history as Jesus of Nazareth existed, before He became man, from all eternity as infinite, eternal and unchangeable God" ?
Scriptures where Christ is worshiped
Matthew 2:1-2-"Now when Jesus was born in Bethlehem of Judaea in the days of Herod the king, behold, there came wise men from the east to Jerusalem, Saying, Where is he that is born King of the Jews? for we have seen his star in the east, and are come to worship him."
Matthew 2:10-11-"When they saw the star, they rejoiced with exceeding great joy. And when they were come into the house, they saw the young child with Mary his mother, and fell down, and worshipped him."
Matthew 8:2-"And, behold, there came a leper and worshipped him, saying, Lord, if thou wilt, thou canst make me clean."
Matthew 9:18-"While [Jesus] spake these things unto them, behold, there came a certain ruler, and worshipped him, saying, My daughter is even now dead: but come and lay thy hand upon her, and she shall live."
Matthew 14:33-"Then they that were in the ship came and worshipped him, saying, Of a truth thou art the Son of God."
Matthew 15:25-"Then came she and worshipped him, saying, Lord, help me."
Matthew 28:9-"And as they went to tell his disciples, behold, Jesus met them, saying, All hail. And they came and held him by the feet, and worshipped him."
Mark 5:6-"But when he saw Jesus afar off, he ran and worshipped him."
Luke 24:51-52-"And it came to pass, while he blessed them, he was parted from them, and carried up into heaven. And they worshipped him, and returned to Jerusalem with great joy."
John 9:35-38-"...he said unto him, Dost thou believe on the Son of God? He answered and said, Who is he, Lord, that I might believe on him? And Jesus said unto him, Thou hast both seen him, and it is he that talketh with thee. And he said, Lord, I believe. And he worshipped him."
Hebrews 1:6-"And again, when he bringeth in the firstbegotten into the world, he saith, And let all the angels of God worship him."
Revelation 5:8-14-"And when he had taken the book, the four beasts and four and twenty elders fell down before the Lamb, having every one of them harps, and golden vials full of odours, which are the prayers of saints. And they sung a new song, saying, Thou art worthy to take the book, and to open the seals thereof.... And every creature which is in heaven, and on the earth, and under the earth, and such as are in the sea, and all that are in them, heard I saying, Blessing, and honour, and glory, and power, be unto him that sitteth upon the throne, and unto the Lamb for ever and ever. And the four beasts said, Amen. And the four and twenty elders fell down and worshipped him that liveth for ever and ever."
Revelation 15:3-4-"And they sing the song of Moses the servant of God, and the song of the Lamb, saying, Great and marvellous are thy works, Lord God Almighty; just and true are thy ways, thou King of saints. Who shall not fear thee, O Lord, and glorify thy name? for thou only art holy: for all nations shall come and worship before thee; for thy judgments are made manifest."
In Revelation 5:8 the living creatures and elders worship the Lamb (Jesus Christ) and offer Him prayers. In verse 13 Christ is offered the same worship that is given to the Father. In Revelation 15:3-4 the worship of the Lord God Almighty and Jesus Christ the King of the saints are indistinguishable. All nations will come and worship before Jesus Christ (Ps. 22:27-28).
The fact that the apostles, and an angel of God, totally rejected worship, while Christ openly accepted it, indicates that the New Testament use of "to worship" (prosekun_san aut_-"worshiped Him") is not mere homage to a king but the worship of God Himself. No created being, no matter how great, is allowed to accept worship.
Isn't attempting to refute these truths denying the deity of Jesus? And if so, isn't denying the deity of Christ blasphemous?
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I posted old testament references previously - Here are New Testament references. This issue does NOT rest on a single scripture, but line upon line, precept upon precept -
Matthew 1:23-"Behold, a virgin shall be with child, and shall bring forth a son, and they shall call his name Emmanuel, which being interpreted is, God with us."
John 1:1-3, 14-"In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. The same was in the beginning with God. All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made.... And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth."
"The late New Testament Greek scholar Colwell formulated a rule which clearly states that a definite predicate nominative (in this case theos meaning 'God') never takes an article when it precedes the verb ('was') as we find in John 1:1. It is therefore easy to see that no article is needed for theos (God), and to translate it 'a god' is both incorrect grammar and poor Greek, since theos is a predicate nominative of 'was' in the third sentence-clause of the verse and must refer back to the subject, 'Word' (logos). Christ, then, if He is the Word "made flesh" (Jn. 1:14), can be no one else except God, unless the Greek text, and consequently God's Word, be denied." [2]
John 1:18-"No man hath seen God at any time; the only begotten Son, which is in the bosom of the Father, he hath declared him."
John 20:27-28-"Then saith he to Thomas, Reach hither thy finger, and behold my hands; and reach hither thy hand, and thrust it into my side: and be not faithless, but believing. And Thomas answered and said unto him, My Lord and my God."
Romans 9:6-"Christ came, who is over all, the eternally blessed God. Amen" (NKJV).
Philippians 2:5-8-"Let this mind be in you, which was also in Christ Jesus: Who, being in the form of God, thought it not robbery to be equal with God: But made himself of no reputation, and took upon him the form of a servant, and was made in the likeness of men: And being found in fashion as a man, he humbled himself, and became obedient unto death, even the death of the cross."
"'Who was in the form of God' are his [the Apostle Paul's] words: and they are words than which no others could be chosen which would more explicitly or with more directness assert the deity of...Jesus Christ.... Let us remember that the phraseology which Paul here employs was the popular usage of his day, though first given general vogue by the Aristotelian philosophy: and that it was accordingly the most natural language for strongly asserting the deity of Christ which could suggest itself to him.... 'Form,' in a word, is equivalent to our phrase 'specific character.'... With God...the 'form' is that body of qualities which distinguish Him from all other spiritual beings, which constitute Him God, and without which He would not be God. What Paul asserts, then, when he says that Christ Jesus existed in the 'form of God,' is that He had all those characterizing qualities which make God God, the presence of which constitutes God, and in the absence of which God does not exist. He who is 'in the form of God' is God."
Colossians 1:15-16-"Who is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of every creature: For by him were all things created, that are in heaven, and that are in earth, visible and invisible...."
When the Apostle Paul says that Christ is the firstborn over all creation, he does not mean that Christ is the first created being. For he goes on to explain that Jesus Christ created everything in heaven and on earth, visible and invisible. Jesus Christ could not create Himself. The idea among various cults that Christ is the first created being is an impossible absurdity.
Colossians 2:8-10-"Beware lest any man spoil you through philosophy and vain deceit, after the tradition of men, after the rudiments of the world, and not after Christ. For in him dwelleth all the fulness of the Godhead bodily. And ye are complete in him, which is the head of all principality and power."
1 Timothy 1:16-17-"Howbeit for this cause I obtained mercy, that in me first Jesus Christ might show forth all longsuffering, for a pattern to them which should hereafter believe on him to life everlasting. Now unto the King eternal, immortal, invisible, the only wise God, be honour and glory for ever and ever. Amen."
1 Timothy 2:3-4-"For this is good and acceptable in the sight of God our Saviour; Who will have all men to be saved, and to come unto the knowledge of the truth."
1 Timothy 3:16-"And without controversy great is the mystery of godliness: God was manifest in the flesh, justified in the Spirit, seen of angels, preached unto the Gentiles, believed on in the world, received up into glory."
1 Timothy 6:14-16-"...the appearing of our Lord Jesus Christ: Which in his times he shall show, who is the blessed and only Potentate, the King of kings, and Lord of lords; Who only hath immortality, dwelling in the light which no man can approach unto; whom no man hath seen, nor can see: to whom be honour and power everlasting. Amen."
Titus 1:3-"But hath in due times manifested his word through preaching, which is committed unto me according to the commandment of God our Saviour."
Titus 2:10-"...showing all good fidelity; that they may adorn the doctrine of God our Saviour in all things."
Titus 2:13-"Looking for the blessed hope and glorious appearing of our great God and Savior Jesus Christ" (NKJV).
Hebrews 1:1-3-"God, who at sundry times and in divers manners spake in time past unto the fathers by the prophets, Hath in these last days spoken unto us by his Son, whom he hath appointed heir of all things, by whom also he made the worlds; Who being the brightness of his glory, and the express image of his person, and upholding all things by the word of his power, when he had by himself purged our sins, sat down on the right hand of the Majesty on high."
Hebrews 1:8-"But unto the Son he saith, Thy throne, O God, is for ever and ever: a sceptre of righteousness is the sceptre of thy kingdom."
Jude 25-"To the only wise God our Saviour, be glory and majesty, dominion and power, both now and for ever. Amen."
Jesus Christ Clearly Taught His Own Divinity
Revelation 21:6-7-"And he [Jesus Christ] said unto me, It is done. I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the end. I will give unto him that is athirst of the fountain of the water of life freely. He that overcometh shall inherit all things; and I will be his God, and he shall be my son."
John 8:57-59-"Then the Jews said to Him, 'You are not yet fifty years old, and have you seen Abraham?' Jesus said to them, 'Most assuredly, I say to you, before Abraham was, I AM.' Then they took up stones to throw at Him; but Jesus hid Himself and went out of the temple..." (NKJV).
John 5:17-26-"But Jesus answered them, 'My Father has been working until now, and I have been working.' Therefore the Jews sought all the more to kill Him, because He not only broke the Sabbath, but also said that God was His Father, making Himself equal with God. Then Jesus answered and said to them,... 'For as the Father raises the dead and gives life to them, even so the Son gives life to whom He will.... For as the Father has life in Himself, so He has granted the Son to have life in Himself'" (NKJV).
John 10:28-39-"And I give unto them eternal life; and they shall never perish, neither shall any man pluck them out of my hand. My Father, which gave them me, is greater than all; and no man is able to pluck them out of my Father's hand. I and my Father are one. Then the Jews took up stones again to stone him. Jesus answered them, Many good works have I showed you from my Father; for which of those works do ye stone me? The Jews answered him, saying, For a good work we stone thee not; but for blasphemy; and because that thou, being a man, makest thyself God. Jesus answered them,... If I do not the works of my Father, believe me not. But if I do, though ye believe not me, believe the works: that ye may know, and believe, that the Father is in me, and I in him. Therefore they sought again to take him: but he escaped out of their hand."
Mark 2:5-11-"When Jesus saw their faith, he said unto the sick of the palsy, Son, thy sins be forgiven thee. But there were certain of the scribes sitting there, and reasoning in their hearts, Why doth this man thus speak blasphemies? who can forgive sins but God only?... [Jesus] said unto them, But that ye may know that the Son of man hath power on earth to forgive sins, (he saith to the sick of the palsy,) I say unto thee, Arise, and take up thy bed, and go thy way into thine house" (cf. Lk. 5:20-24).
The scribes' theology was correct: "Who can forgive sins but God only?" Jesus didn't disagree with their conclusion; rather, through the miraculous healing He proved that He in fact was God and had the authority to forgive sins.
The Spirit-inspired writers of the New Testament applied Old Testament passages which specifically refer God-Jehovah to Jesus Christ; therefore, Jesus must be God-Jehovah
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quote:
Linda writes -
Jim, I particularly liked your "One God three names." I often think of them as adminstrations,in which He has dispensed grace and mercy to mankind, but I really like your use of "names" I think that fits so well with this scripture which is one of my favorite and one which I think settles this issue:
Isaiah 9:6 For unto us a child is born, unto us a son is given: and the government shall be upon his shoulder: and his name shall be called Wonderful, Counsellor, The mighty God, The everlasting Father, The Prince of Peace.
Amen?
Amen!!!!
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Bloodbought
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From Terral.
Christ has no human nature or divine nature, because He is the “Son of God,” which is something between Deity (Col. 2:9) and humanity (Men). 1Timothy 2:5.
Bloodbought>>Christ was a cross between the Spirit of God and a woman, therefore He had both the nature of God and the nature of man.
Luke 1:35 And the angel answered and said unto her, The Holy Ghost shall come upon thee, and the power of the Highest shall overshadow thee: therefore also that holy thing which shall be born of thee shall be called the Son of God.
No matter how you try you cannot explain away that fact. There are times when Christ is referred to as God and at other times He is referred to as man. There are times when He spoke as God would speak to man and at other times He spoke as man would speak to God.
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Bloodbought
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From Terral.
Here is a question for everyone here? If God sent His Only Begotten Son to die for your sins and God raised Him from the dead, then who is your Savior? God? Or His Son? The answer is Both. Yes, God had to send Christ, but Christ has to also pay the debt on the cross.
Amen Terral.
I was very relieved to hear you saying that both God and His Son are our saviour. They most certainly are. One is as much our saviour as the other and that makes them the same. Now before you say how can they be the same, I want to say something else and that is that before God could be our saviour, He needed to take onto Himself the form of a man in the person of Christ, so He could suffer death on the cross on our behalf. Now when Christ died, God did not die. It was the human nature of Christ that died, not His divine nature. Christ is both God and man, He is God on the side of God and man on the side of man and that qualifies Him as mediator between God and man. The divine nature of Christ is the Father and the human nature of Christ is His Son, but the whole person of Christ is both God and man.
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yahsway
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"Who, being in very nature Elohim, did not consider equality with Elohim something to be grasped, but mde Himself nothing, taking the very nature of a servant, being made in human likeness. And being found in appearance as a man, He humbled Himself and became obediant to death- even death on the stake.
"He is the image of the invisible Elohim, the firstborn over all creation"
Now I ask all of you, which creature would be able to take this attribute upon itself? Michael the Archangel perhaps?
The veil has been removed for some of us, but remember the thief that died next to Yeshua did not have to know a great deal. Our defining attribute must be LOVE. Where there is contention and strife over what we believe, we do not exibit love.
If we who believe Yeshua is Yahweh are to be cast out as "idolaters", then we were mislead by many, many scriptures.
He is wonderful, Counselor, Everlasting Father, Mighty El, Sar Shalom, El Elyon, El Shaddai, Yahweh Tzedekenu, and Maker of all things seen and unseen.
He appeared to Abraham. He walked with Enoch, Adam, spoke face-to-face with Moses, and wrestled with Jacob. And He died for me, his much pitiful servant. He is the resurrection and the Life. Shalom
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WildB
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"NO ONE has seen God at ANY TIME"
This is not true.
Exod.33
[23] And I will take away mine hand, and thou shalt see my back parts: but my face shall not be seen.
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That is all.....
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epouraniois
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quote:
Originally posted by helpforhomeschoolers:
quote:
Isa 43:11
I, even I, am the Jehovah; and beside me there is no savior.
No other Saviour, but Jehovah!
Paul it seems knew this at least when he wrote to Timothy...
1 Timothy 1:1 Paul, an apostle of Jesus Christ by the commandment of God our Saviour, and Lord Jesus Christ, which is our hope;
But I guess that if Terrel's doctrine be true... then Paul must have forgotten it when he wrote to Titus... or maybe Paul was just confused?
Titus 1:4 To Titus, mine own son after the common faith: Grace, mercy, and peace, from God the Father and the Lord Jesus Christ our Saviour.
or wait here Paul again shows that God is Savior...
Titus 2:10 Not purloining, but shewing all good fidelity; that they may adorn the doctrine of God our Saviour in all things.
or is it Christ our Savior??
Titus 2:13 Looking for that blessed hope, and the glorious appearing of the great God and our Saviour Jesus Christ;
Bam BAM
out go the lights
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helpforhomeschoolers
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quote:
Isa 43:11
I, even I, am the Jehovah; and beside me there is no savior.
No other Saviour, but Jehovah!
Paul it seems knew this at least when he wrote to Timothy...
1 Timothy 1:1 Paul, an apostle of Jesus Christ by the commandment of God our Saviour, and Lord Jesus Christ, which is our hope;
But I guess that if Terrel's doctrine be true... then Paul must have forgotten it when he wrote to Titus... or maybe Paul was just confused?
Titus 1:4 To Titus, mine own son after the common faith: Grace, mercy, and peace, from God the Father and the Lord Jesus Christ our Saviour.
or wait here Paul again shows that God is Savior...
Titus 2:10 Not purloining, but shewing all good fidelity; that they may adorn the doctrine of God our Saviour in all things.
or is it Christ our Savior??
Titus 2:13 Looking for that blessed hope, and the glorious appearing of the great God and our Saviour Jesus Christ;
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Remarking on Terral's post:
quote:
Does anyone here know the name of the Only Begotten Son of God?
I do, I do, pick me, pick me.
Mat 1:23
Behold, a virgin shall be with child, and shall bring forth a son, and they shall call his name Emmanuel, which being interpreted is, God with us.
G2424
Ἰησοῦς
Iēsous
Thayer Definition:
Jesus = “Jehovah is salvation”
Psa 27:1
A Psalm of David. The Jehovah is my light and my salvation
Isa 43:11
I, even I, am the Jehovah; and beside me there is no savior.
Gen 19:24
Then the Jehovah rained upon Sodom and upon Gomorrah brimstone and fire from the LORD out of heave
1Co 15:47
The first man is of the earth, earthy: the second man is the Lord from heaven.
Joh 4:42
And said unto the woman, Now we believe, not because of thy saying: for we have heard him ourselves, and know that this is indeed the Christ, the Savior of the world.
Joh 3:31
He that cometh from above is above all: he that is of the earth is earthly, and speaketh of the earth: he that cometh from heaven is above all.
Exo 14:13
And Moses said unto the people, Fear ye not, stand still, and see the salvation of the LORD
quote:
Terral,
This side of the Debate is quoting most every word you say and showing the errors using Scripture, while asking everyone here to do the same thing for me.
Please present the idict where Scripture is to be used to prove the Scripture does not say what it means and does not mean what it says.
Chapter and verse please.
Thanks in advance.
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HisGrace
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quote:
Originally posted by Terral:
His Grace Commentary >> NONE. ( x3 )
That is the point I was trying to make -the scriptures state the Truth in simple black and white. They need no explanation.
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helpforhomeschoolers
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Amen HisGrace!!!
Jim, I particularly liked your "One God three names." I often think of them as adminstrations,in which He has dispensed grace and mercy to mankind, but I really like your use of "names" I think that fits so well with this scripture which is one of my favorite and one which I think settles this issue:
Isaiah 9:6 For unto us a child is born, unto us a son is given: and the government shall be upon his shoulder: and his name shall be called Wonderful, Counsellor, The mighty God, The everlasting Father, The Prince of Peace.
Amen?
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HisGrace
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Terral, whenever we lay out the facts in black and white, you cleverly go off on a tangent, pontifacting about eos and theos, #1350 or #1206,(whatever), instead of confronting the plain Truth. Let's face it - the Bible just does not support your theory that Jesus does not equal God.
Once again - 1 Timothy 3:16 And without controversy great is the mystery of godliness: God was manifest in the flesh, justified in the Spirit, seen of angels, preached unto the Gentiles, believed on in the world, received up
into glory.
John 8:58 :Jesus answered, "The truth is, I existed before Abraham was even born!"
John 10:1 The Father and I are One.
John 1:1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God
John 1:14 And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth.
Please, no more intellectual explanations about these scriptures.
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epouraniois
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Some words on the first verses of the Gospel of John, due to the promulgation by a certain section of Christendom leading the reader to think that the inspired original tells us that the Word was a God;
The Edition of the N.T. which contains this evil has both the Greek text and the translation side by side:, how
It may be helpful if we transliterate the English characters, using e for Eta and o for Omega, and (x) for Iota subscript.
1. En arche(x) en ho - In the beginning was the
logos kai ho logos en - word and the Word was
pros ton Theon - with the God
kai Theos en ho logos - and God was the Word.
2. Houtos en en arche(x) - The same was in the beginning
pros ton Theon - with the God.
3. Panta di'autou - All things through Him
egeneto, kai choris autou - became, and without Him
egeneto oude en, - became not one thing,
ho gegonen - which has become.
The argument brought forward in the evil interpretation rests largely upon the use and omission of the Greek article (ho).
This Greek article corresponds with our English "the," and in its varied cases to "in the," "to the," &c. The article is easily found in the first line, as the literal rendering follows the order of the words, ho logos is "the Word." When, however, a noun is in the accusative or objective case, the article is declined in sympathy with the noun, and so ho logos would become ton logon. Now as the word Theos (God) is a similar word to logos, the last two words in the third line ton Theon, are simply ho Theos in the accusative case. Although this may sound complicated, it is presented to prevent misunderstanding on the part of those who may search out these things, but who may not possess the necessary knowledge to undertake this study. Note that, while we have the article before the word "God " in the third line, it is omitted in the fourth line. It does not read kai ho Theos, but kai Theos; not "and the God," but "and God." Thus we may read the sentence:
The Word was God, or, God was the Word.
The use of the article does determine the true subject of the sentence, hence we see that in lines 1 and 4 ho logos - "the Word " - is the subject.
Emphasis is laid upon the subject - "the Word" - by the Figure of Speech called Hyperbaton. This Figure means "a stepping over," and by placing a word out of position than that which was previously stated, it draws, or calls our attention that the order is reversed, but the subject does not change in this Figure. The subject remains as before, the Figure catching our attention.
Hence, "In the beginning was THE WORD, and God THE WORD was." No amount of explanation can have any weight unless it can be seen to be in harmony with the Scriptures of truth.
When confronted with one of these exponents of the "Greek original", it might be asked of them for an evidence in consistency by reading the translation given of another verse in the selfsame chapter, such as verse 14. If kai Theos en ho logos means "and the Word was A God," why should not kai ho logos sarx egeneto be translated, "and the Word became A flesh"? Such translation becomes manifestly absurd, yet it is based upon precisely the same argument, the absence of the article before the word flesh. Does ho Theos agape estin mean "The God is A love?"
The grammatical rule:
The article is employed to demonstrate, while its omission is designed to describe.
"The God" points out the subject of the sentence, "is love" describes His essence. So "the Word became flesh" describes the sphere into which the Word came, namely flesh.
Hence, we read the two passages together:
The Word WAS GOD. The Word BECAME FLESH.
In each case the absence of the article describes, while the change in the verb signifies that in the first instance the condition was one of essential character, "was" (verb "to be"); the other, that which He assumed when the fulness of time came, "He became."
The word Theos is used of God in the Scriptures in three different ways:
* Essentially, as in John 4:24: ‘God is Spirit’.
* Personally, as of the Father: ‘God the Father’ (Gal. 1:1).
Personally, as of the Son: ‘Unto the Son, He saith ... O God’ (Heb. 1:8). Personally, as of the Spirit: ‘The Holy Ghost ... God’ (Acts 5:3,4).
* Manifestly, as of the Word: ‘The Word was God’ (1:1).
‘I and My Father are one. Then the Jews took up stones again to stone Him ... Thou, being a man, makest Thyself God’
(John 10:30-33).
‘Thomas answered and said unto Him, My Lord and my God’ (John 20:28).
Christ specificaally called the kingdom, 'my kingdom':
Mk 6:23
And he sware unto her, Whatsoever thou shalt ask of me, I will give [it] thee, unto the half of my kingdom.
Lk 22:30
That ye may eat and drink at my table in my kingdom, and sit on thrones judging the twelve tribes of Israel.
Jn 18:36
Jesus answered, My kingdom is not of this world: if my kingdom were of this world, then would my servants fight, that I should not be delivered to the Jews: but now is my kingdom not from hence.
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BORN AGAIN
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brother Terral writes quote:
Instead of recognizing that God’s Word is written by the same Spirit of God, you are pretending that we can use one verse to cancel out all others.
brother Terral, tonight I felt honored that you are with us and that I might learn a few things from you.
At first I thought you were talking with contempt for your fellow brothers and sisters in Christ, but I think you know a lot and I'd like to learn some of it.
You sound sharp at times but tonight it felt more like the two-edged sword of Chrisst which does not waste any time.
God bless, BORN AGAIN
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ToBeContinued
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Isaiah 7:14-"Therefore the Lord himself shall give you a sign; Behold, a virgin shall conceive, and bear a son, and shall call his name Immanuel" (Immanuel literally means "God with us").
Isaiah 9:6-"For unto us a child is born, unto us a son is given: and the government shall be upon his shoulder: and his name shall be called Wonderful, Counsellor, The mighty God, The everlasting Father, The Prince of Peace. Of the increase of his government and peace there shall be no end...."
Jeremiah 23:5-6-"Behold, the days come, saith the LORD, that I will raise unto David a righteous Branch, and a King shall reign and prosper, and shall execute judgment and justice in the earth. In his days Judah shall be saved, and Israel shall dwell safely: and this is his name whereby he shall be called, THE LORD OUR RIGHTEOUSNESS." Christ's name in Hebrew is YHWH Tsidkenu, Jehovah Our Righteousness.
Micah 5:2-"But thou, Bethlehem Ephratah, though thou be little among the thousands of Judah, yet out of thee shall he come forth unto me that is to be ruler in Israel; whose goings forth have been from of old, from everlasting." Christ has always existed because He is not a created being; He is God Almighty who has existed from everlasting.
Malachi 3:1-2-"Behold, I will send my messenger, and he shall prepare the way before me: and the Lord, whom ye seek, shall suddenly come to his temple, even the messenger of the covenant, whom ye delight in: behold, he shall come, saith the LORD of hosts. But who may abide the day of his coming? and who shall stand when he appeareth? for he is like a refiner's fire, and like fullers' soap." God's temple is Christ's temple. Christ comes as an all-powerful judge.
Psalm 45:1, 6-7-"I speak of the things which I have made touching the king.... Thy throne, O God, is for ever and ever: the sceptre of thy kingdom is a right sceptre. Thou lovest righteousness, and hatest wickedness: therefore God, thy God, hath anointed thee...." The Hebrew word translated "anointed" is the verb form of the noun "Messiah."
Psalm 110:1-3-"The LORD said unto my Lord, Sit thou at my right hand, until I make thine enemies thy footstool. The LORD shall send the rod of thy strength out of Zion: rule thou in the midst of thine enemies. Thy people shall be willing in the day of thy power...." The LORD (Jehovah) will subdue all Christ's enemies. Yet Christ's rod and Christ's power will subdue all enemies. Christ's rule and power are clearly equal to God's. See Psalm 2 where a similar theme is discussed: "Serve the LORD [Jehovah] with fear, and rejoice with trembling. Kiss the Son, lest he be angry, and ye perish from the way..." (vv. 11-12). Note how "the Son" is set poetically in parallel with "Jehovah."
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ToBeContinued
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Is Jesus Christ a man, or is he God?
Jesus Christ is most definitely God. He created Adam and Eve, the first man and woman, in his image. He is the Creator of the universe. The Bible says, "Through him all things were made; without him nothing was made that has been made" (John 1:3). This includes all the stars, all the original animals and plants, and even the angels (Colossians 1:15-17).
It is important not be confused. God did not create Jesus. Jesus is God, and he has always existed.
Jesus proved that he is God by doing many things that only God could do. These are called miracles. He made dead people alive. He walked across a great lake. He made blind eyes see perfectly again. He healed deadly diseases with a word.
The exciting truth is that Jesus is now also a man, and will remain so for all eternity. He humbled himself to become like one of his own creations. He chose to become a man to help us in an extremely important way. This amazing event happened about 2-thousand years ago. The results have changed the world forever.
The part of God that is called the Holy Spirit created God's human body inside of a woman named Mary (Matthew 1:20). God went into this human body that grew inside of Mary. The baby was born and grew into a man.
At various times in the past, Jesus had appeared to people in human form. One example is when he appeared to Abraham just before the judgment of the evil cities of Sodom and Gomorrah. But now, for the first time in history, God did not simply appear as man, he became fully human. Yet, he is still God. He is both God and man.
One huge difference between this man and every other man and woman, or boy and girl, is that Jesus was (and still is) sinless. We humans are full of sin. We sin every day. Jesus never did anything wrong, not even once. No matter what temptations came to him, he refused to sin. He has always remained pure and perfect.
Isn't it amazing to think about?! Our Creator walked among us. Like us, our Almighty God smelled the flowers and touched the animals that he had created. He loved boys and girls.
As a man, God experienced the same temptations that we feel (Hebrews 2:18). He suffered the same kind of physical pains that we suffer with. He also experienced emotional pain. He even wept about the city of Jerusalem (John 11:35). He was ignored, unappreciated, unloved, misunderstood, and even despised -- even though he did nothing wrong, and always loved everyone (1 Peter 2:23). Not only is Jesus Christ the greatest man that ever lived; he is our Creator. He deserved all glory and honor!
I am sure that you have heard what people did to him. It was horribly painful and terribly unjust.
He had the power to stop their torture and taunting at any time. His power is awesome beyond anything we can understand. Yet, he did not defend himself. He let himself be like a perfect, innocent little lamb that hurt no one, and was sacrificed for the sins of the people.
He did this for us, because he loves us. Only he could pay the price for our sins. Only he could save us from the punishment we deserve. He suffered for us (1 Peter 2:21; 3:18; 4:1).
Today, he lives in Heaven and works to help us (Romans 8:34). The Bible tells us that one day he will return to earth to become the rightful king of the entire world. That will be a most wonderful time! Finally, we will have a leader that is good and wise in every way. The earth will be filled with God's glory and justice. Life on this planet will become so much better. Even the dangerous animals will become harmless (the wolf will lie down with the lamb) (Isaiah 11:6).
Is Jesus Christ God or man? The answer is BOTH; he is God and man
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ToBeContinued
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John 8:58
Jesus said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Before Abraham was, I am
The doctrine of the Trinity -- that God the Father, God the Son, and God the Holy Spirit are each equally and eternally the one true God -- is admittedly difficult to comprehend, and yet is the very foundation of Christian truth. Although skeptics may ridicule it as a mathematical impossibility, it is nevertheless a basic doctrine of Scripture as well as profoundly realistic in both universal experience and in the scientific understanding of the cosmos.
Both Old and New Testaments teach the Unity and the Trinity of the Godhead. The idea that there is only one God, who created all things, is repeatedly emphasized in such Scriptures as Isaiah 45:18:
"For thus saith the Lord that created the heavens; God himself that formed the earth and made it; ...I am the Lord; and there is none else."
A New Testament example is James 2:19:
"Thou believest that there is one God; thou doest well; the devils also believe, and tremble."
The three persons of the Godhead are, at the same time, noted in such Scriptures as Isaiah 48:16:
"I have not spoken in secret from the beginning; From the time that it was, there am I; and now the Lord God, and his Spirit, hath sent me."
The speaker in this verse is obviously God, and yet He says He has been sent both by The Lord God (that is, the Father) and by His Spirit (that is, the Holy Spirit).
The New Testament doctrine of the Trinity is evident in such a verse as John 15:26, where the Lord Jesus said:
"But when the Comforter is come whom I will send unto you from the Father, He shall testify of me."
Then there is the baptismal formula:
"baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost" (Matthew 28:19).
One name (God) -- yet three names!
JESUS -- That Jesus, as the only-begotten Son of God, actually claimed to be God, equal with the Father, is clear from numerous Scriptures. For example, He said:
"I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the ending, saith the Lord, which is, and which was, and which is to come, the Almighty" (Revelation 1:8).
HOLY SPIRIT -- Some cults falsely teach that the Holy Spirit is an impersonal divine influence of some kind, but the Bible teaches that He is a real person, just as are the Father and the Son. Jesus said:
"Howbeit when he, the Spirit of truth, is come, he will guide you into all truth: for he shall not speak of himself; but whatsoever he shall hear, that shall he speak; and he will show you things to come" (John 16:13).
TRI-UNITY -- The teaching of the Bible concerning the Trinity might be summarized thus. God is a Tri-unity, with each Person of the Godhead equally and fully and eternally God. Each is necessary, and each is distinct, and yet all are one. The three Persons appear in a logical, causal order. The Father is the unseen, omnipresent Source of all being, revealed in and by the Son, experienced in and by the Holy Spirit. The Son proceeds from the Father, and the Spirit from the Son. With reference to God's creation, the Father is the Thought behind it, the Son is the Word calling it forth, and the Spirit is the Deed making it a reality.
We "see" God and His great salvation in the Son of God, the Lord Jesus Christ, then "experience" their reality by faith, through the indwelling presence of His Holy Spirit.
Though these relationships seem paradoxical, and to some completely impossible, they are profoundly realistic, and their truth is ingrained deep in man's nature. Thus, men have always sensed first the truth that God must be "out there," everywhere present and the First Cause of all things, but they have corrupted this intuitive knowledge of the Father into pantheism and ultimately into naturalism.
Similarly, men have always felt the need to "see" God in terms of their own experience and understanding, but this knowledge that God must reveal Himself has been distorted into polytheism and idolatry. Men have thus continually erected "models" of God, sometimes in the form of graven images, sometimes even in the form of philosophical systems purporting to represent ultimate reality.
Finally, men have always known that they should be able to have communion with their Creator and to experience His presence "within." But this deep intuition of the Holy Spirit has been corrupted into various forms of false mysticism and fanaticism, and even into spiritism and demonism. Thus, the truth of God's tri-unity is ingrained in man's very nature, but he has often distorted it and substituted a false god in its place.
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BORN AGAIN
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brother Terral writes above quote:
But, there is more: “He*” doing the explaining in this verse is the Only Begotten Son who is explaining the “God” that no one has seen at ANY TIME. The Gospel writer did not make this statement in 30 AD, for Christ to come behind and contradict;
First of all, if "all scriptures is inspired" and "if the Spirit of Truth will bring all things to our(their) remembrance", what would be the need for Christ to "come behind and contradict"?
But other than that, forgive me if I'm wrong, but it seems to me that you are saying that the Son of God is not the LORD YHWH, and vice versa and that we need to keep this distinction.
When we see the Son of God on earth, the Father inside of Him could not be seen on the outside, except "indirectly" by the "works which the Father did in Jesus".
In Isaiah 9:6 the "child that is born" is also called "the mighty God" and "the everlasting Father".
But aside from that, my simpler point is that "no man can do the things which He did", and how can anyone think that Jesus is a "man" if Jesus can "ascend up into the clouds from near Bethany"?
I mean, I don't know what kind of supermen you have been hanging around with, Terral (other than coincidentally here with epouraniois), but the abilities of this Jesus fellow are "part and parcel" the kind of activities that I would "ascsribe to a God" or "to God".
In essence and substance, as the Son of, what, of God, the Son of God is substance-wise identical to God, is He not?
Do you agree with that, or not?
God bless, BORN AGAIN
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BORN AGAIN
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good post above mine, epouraniois.
One reason why I like the KJV is because the KJV kindly makes a distinction in the way it prints the word LORD and Lord in the OT, and Lord in the NT.
The KJV always renders the Hebrew YHWH as LORD, in all caps.
The KJV always renders the Hebrew Adonai as Lord.
Except in this combination:
Lord GOD (with GOD in all caps), which in Hebrew is Adonai YHWH, or, in English Lord LORD. In order to avoid that awkward reading, the KJV made it Lord GOD (with GOD in all caps).
And in the New Testament, Lord (Jesus) is always in Greek kurios or Lord.
It is helpful when discussing which Lord we are talking about to use LORD for YHWY in the OT and Lord when talking about the Lord of the New Testament.
As I said before, I think the LORD YHWY is a Separate Person in the Godhead and the Lord Kurios is a Separate Person in the Godhead, and never the Two Persons shall "merge together into one".
I think that when Isaiah 9:6 writes:
Isaiah 9
6 “For unto us a child is born … and his name shall be Wonderful, Counselor, the mighty God, the everlasting Father, the Prince of peace”,
it is referring to the identical material that the Son of God and the Father are made of, to their identical talents, to their identical Counsel, to their identical Godness, to their identical peace.
And Lord Jesus said:
“I am in the Father and the Father is in me”, it is almost as if the Two are so identical that One calls alternatively as easily upon the One as on the Other.
God bless, BORN AGAIN
"if he's not Houdini, then He must be God"
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epouraniois
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I agree and support many things in this thread, and too how Caretaker began the thread.
I too, would ask,
is it the Lord in the O.T. who created the heavens and the earth?
Is it the Lord in the N.T. who created the heavens and the earth?
Is there more than one Lord?
Can there really be two Lords who created the heavens and the earth, or is that carnal thinking?
Did God give His glory to another?
Or is the verse correct in asserting that the child is born, and His name be called...The mighty God, The everlasting Father, The Prince of Peace?
Were all the apostles deceived when declaring the Lord who created all things that were created was made flesh?
Were all of the pharisees correct that Christ should be killed for what they frankly state was Christ claiming to be the I AM of the O.T.?
For me, it was the parakletos being called Christ, the Holy Spirit, and the HS being called God. That seemed to help me see the other verses in their given perspective, one of relativity to the purpose being persued in the structure of the unfolding revelation of plan and witness of God.
It then became clear that, being there can only be the one Lord, every title of Jehovah are taken for granted by the Christ that they belong only to Him. But there was a time when I fought rather strongly against any such trinity, although I never denied the diety of Christ. I guess that is what left the Lord some room for me to be worked with, that I at least did realize that God did not ask anyone to do what He Himself was unwilling to do, so as the children were made partakers of flesh...likewise took part in the same, as any good leadership role demands.
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HisGrace
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quote:
Originally posted by Terral:
Hi His Grace:
Thank you for writing.
Please . . . Nothing in this post addresses the “one God” AND ALSO “one Mediator” (Christ Jesus) of 1Timothy 2:5. The Greek term “Mesites” does not allow Christ Jesus to be the “one God” of the SAME VERSE. Do not try to pass off your “Notice this” lingo as BIBLE COMMENTARY. Please try again if you ever come up with an answer for the 1Timothy 2:5 Challenge.
Your tactic in answering my 1Tim. 2:5 challenge was to change the subject and misrepresent another verse that also agrees with my interpretation.
Actually I don't see the relevance of 1 Tim.2.5 in this topic to prove your point. It is speaking about Jesus in the flesh, which I don't deny, and His Father in heaven. There is one God in heaven and only one God of the flesh on earth. I don't get it.
Since I believe in a triune God, this scripture makes a lot of sense to me.
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trafield
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![[Roll Eyes]](rolleyes.gif)
Hmmm...
Seems to be avoiding responding to Born Again's post.... ![[spiny]](graemlins/spiny.gif)
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HisGrace
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quote:
Originally posted by Terral:
Scripture says:
“For there is one God, and one mediator* ALSO between God AND men, the man Christ Jesus.” 1Timothy 2:5.
The Greek term here is “mesites” (#3316) meaning: ( http://www.blueletterbible.org/tmp_dir/words/3/1136566377-3245.html )
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1) one who intervenes BETWEEN two, either in order to make or restore peace and friendship, or form a compact, or for ratifying a covenant
2) a MEDIUM of communication, arbitrator
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Please explain for everyone here how you transform our ‘one Mediator’ (Christ Jesus) into the ‘one God’ of the same verse for whom He mediates?? Your explanation of this point could do wonders for us who believe “Jesus Christ” (Rev. 1:1,2,5) is the “Son of God” (Rev. 2:18) and that “The Almighty” (Rev. 1:8) is “His God and Father.” Revelation 1:6.Terral
Nothing about mediators or arbitrators in the following scipture. If you don't see the Truth in it, there is a veil over your eyes.
1 Timothy 3:16 And without controversy great is the mystery of godliness: God was
manifest in the flesh, justified in the Spirit, seen of angels, preached unto the Gentiles, believed on in the world, received up into glory.
~Notice it doesn't say that Jesus preached unto the Gentiles.
Manifest -verb: reveal its presence or make an appearance.
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BORN AGAIN
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I think it was Terral who wrote quote:
Please explain how no one has seen God at ANY TIME and Jesus = God at the very same time.
How does that jive with:
John 6:46
Not that any man has seen the Father, save he which is of God, he has seen the Father.
John 14:9
Jesus said to him, Have I been so long time with you, and yet hast thou not known me, Philip? He who has seen me hath seen the Father; and how say you then, Show us the Father?
God bless, BORN AGAIN
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trafield
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quote:
Hi Trafield:
Thank you for writing. Please place my name and any other registered member’s name you mention at the very top of your post. Otherwise we may skip right by your reply altogether.
Not a surprise, since you are also skiping right by the Truth.
Yes sir, my H20 analogy is indeed very scriptural:
Romans 1:18-20
18The wrath of God is being revealed from heaven against all the godlessness and wickedness of men who suppress the truth by their wickedness, 19since what may be known about God is plain to them, because God has made it plain to them. 20For since the creation of the world God's invisible qualities—his eternal power and divine nature—have been clearly seen, being understood from what has been made, so that men are without excuse.
You, sir, with your charts and many words of faithless chatter, are nothing but a modern-day Pharisee. Scripture says you have the spirit of anitchrist. And it is certainly not up to me to open your eyes.
But I will sincerely pray for you that you may see Jesus for who he really is, before it is too late for you.
1 Timothy 4:1-3
1Dear friends, do not believe every spirit, but test the spirits to see whether they are from God, because many false prophets have gone out into the world. 2This is how you can recognize the Spirit of God: Every spirit that acknowledges that Jesus Christ has come in the flesh is from God, 3but every spirit that does not acknowledge Jesus is not from God. This is the spirit of the antichrist, which you have heard is coming and even now is already in the world.
Tracy
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trafield
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quote:
Please explain how no one has seen God at ANY TIME and Jesus = God at the very same time. Why does your testimony disagree with that of John the Baptist? Please be specific and give Scripture to support you reason.
I will answer this question with Jesus's answer to the Pharisees:
John 10:25-30
25Jesus answered, "I did tell you, but you do not believe. The miracles I do in my Father's name speak for me, 26but you do not believe because you are not my sheep. 27My sheep listen to my voice; I know them, and they follow me. 28I give them eternal life, and they shall never perish; no one can snatch them out of my hand. 29My Father, who has given them to me, is greater than all[a]; no one can snatch them out of my Father's hand. 30I and the Father are one."
Terral,
For you to understand this, you would need to unerstand the Trinity, that there are three equal parts to the One God. Just like steam, water, and ice are all 3 different appearances of the same chemical known as H2O, so the Father, Son, and the Holy Spirit, are all equal parts of the One True God.
So John, in 1:18, is stating that no one has ever seen the Father, but the Son has made him known. This is why Jesus could tell the Pharisees in John 8:19 that if they knew him (Jesus), then they would also know the Father.
How much more scripture do you need to show that Jesus and the Father are one as it clearly says in John 10:30?
Now please answer my questions:
Why do you suppose God is speaking in a plural tense when he says in Genesis 1:26,
" Then God said, "Let us make man in our image, in our likeness..."
Who do you think was there with God when He made man?
Posts: 225 | From: Tennessee | Registered: Dec 2005
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helpforhomeschoolers
Advanced Member
Member # 15
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posted
Jesus was begotten of the Holy Spirit - the Son of God.
Luke 1:4 Then said Mary unto the angel, How shall this be, seeing I know not a man?
35 And the angel answered and said unto her, The Holy Ghost shall come upon thee, and the power of the Highest shall overshadow thee: therefore also that holy thing which shall be born of thee shall be called the Son of God.
GOD was manifest in the flesh.
John 1:14 And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth.
1 Timothy 3:16 And without controversy great is the mystery of godliness: God was manifest in the flesh, justified in the Spirit, seen of angels, preached unto the Gentiles, believed on in the world, received up into glory.
Jesus was born - God manifest in the Flesh - of the virgin Mary - the Son of Man.
Matthew 16:13 When Jesus came into the coasts of Caesarea Philippi, he asked his disciples, saying, Whom do men say that I the Son of man am?
Matthew 1:23 Behold, a virgin shall be with child, and shall bring forth a son, and they shall call his name Emmanuel, which being interpreted is, God with us.
Posts: 4684 | From: Southern Black Hills of South Dakota | Registered: Jun 2002
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BORN AGAIN
unregistered
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posted
Is Yahshua-Jesus God, or the Son of God of Psalm 2?
Psalm 2:12
Kiss the Son, lest He be angry and you perish from the way, when His wrath is kindled but a little. Blessed are all they that put their trust in Him.
John 20:28
And Thomas answered and said unto him, My LORD and my God.
Strong's Concordance: search for LORD
John 20:28
And 2532 Thomas 2381 answered 611 and 2532 said 2036 unto him 846, My 3450 Lord 2962 and 2532 my 3450 God 2316.
Lord 2962 is the Greek word kurios, so that the above scripture should have said:
John 20:28
And Thomas answered and said unto him, My Lord {Kurios} and my God.
IOW, Thomas was not calling Yahshua-Jesus "my LORD Yehovah" but Thomas was calling Jesus "kurios" and also my God."
Thomas admits that only God can do the things that the resurrected Yahshua-Jesus is now doing for 40 days, showing Himself to more than 500 witnesses. "Whosoever reads, let him understand."
Yahshua-Jesus is Absolute God, the Son of the LORD Yehovah Elohim of Israel, born in Bethlehem of Judah, as Micah 5:2 predicted.
May God bless all of us on this BBS, I am BORN AGAIN by the
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TEXASGRANDMA
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"I also post at another Christian forum and believe it or not, but there are several there that I have debated about this issue. They argued against a Trinity and yet think they are Christian?! You wouldn't believe some of their convoluted arguments. These were wonderful posts and gives me a very concise way to present that Jesus is indeed God."
My daughter, raised in the Assembly of God Church is now United Pentecostal. They too do not believe in the trinity. I do!
betty
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Luk 21:28 And when these things begin to come to pass, then look up, and lift up your heads; for your redemption draweth nigh.
http://www.indieheaven.com/artists/mm (son-in-law)http://www.myspace.com/mireles
Posts: 4985 | From: Washington State | Registered: Jan 2003
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Gatekeeper
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Member # 4882
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posted
I also post at another Christian forum and believe it or not, but there are several there that I have debated about this issue. They argued against a Trinity and yet think they are Christian?! You wouldn't believe some of their convoluted arguments. These were wonderful posts and gives me a very concise way to present that Jesus is indeed God.
Posts: 6 | From: Colorado | Registered: Jul 2005
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Carmela
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Member # 4817
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posted
that required a lot of work Caretaker. Thanks for sharing it with us and for the time you put into studying it. I greatly appreciate it. I didn't have time to read it all yet but I did save it to my computer for a time that isn't as late and I can actually keep my eyes open when I read it. lol
Love, Carmela
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www.pinecrest.org
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SoftTouch
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Member # 2316
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posted
AMEN and AMEN!!!
I'm printing this one out for certain!
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Psalm 119:104Through thy precepts I get understanding: therefore I hate every false way. 105Thy word is a lamp unto my feet, and a light unto my path.
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