This is topic HOLIDAY TREE VS. CHRISTMAS TREE? in forum The Christian News at Christian Message Boards.


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Posted by David (Member # 1) on :
 
`Happy Holidays` Groups Gear Up to Fight for `Christmas,` But is There Really an Issue?
On Thursday, Boston will light its city Christmas tree, after an uproar over an attempt to rename it the "holiday tree." It`s just one of many battles across the country over what some Christians see as attempts to sap Christmas of its religious meaning...

Click Here to read the story.
 

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Posted by HisGrace (Member # 3438) on :
 
Great article!!!
 

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Posted by TEXASGRANDMA (Member # 847) on :
 
David,

I agree with you and HisGrace. Personally, I have signed about a dozen petitions this year to keep Jesus in Christmas. We are now in Houston with our daughter and we went to our old home Church and the Preacher preached yesterday that Christians must keep Jesus in Christmas. Which encouraed me to keep fighting to keep Jesus the reason for the season.
God bless you and HisGrace,
betty
 

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Posted by helpforhomeschoolers (Member # 15) on :
 
Luke 22:19 And he took bread, and gave thanks, and brake it, and gave unto them, saying, This is my body which is given for you: this do in remembrance of me.


 

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Posted by hardcore (Member # 4492) on :
 

quote:

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Originally posted by wparr:
You REALLY want to keep "Jesus the reason for the season"?

Drop santa -

Drop the Christmas tree -

Drop all the pagan tradition garbage -

So that ALL that’s left is Jesus


I see it as clear hypocrisy to say on one hand “Jesus is the reason for the season” while on the other to have santa and all that other @#$# showing people what you REALLY say it’s about.

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Well stated wparr.

Why do "Christians" refuse to acknowledge that Jesus never was the "reason for the season" - another perfect example of the RCC pulling some serious wool over a whole lot of eyes.
 

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Posted by Gramajo320 (Member # 4667) on :
 
We honor and celebrate Jesus Christ's birth and that's the way it is!! You cannot ruin it for those of us who celebrate and honor Jesus's birth and you cannot take it away no matter what you say!
 

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Posted by TEXASGRANDMA (Member # 847) on :
 
Is it apprpriate to be using cuss words on a Christian site (@#$# , is just a form for one)?


I have decided that I am not going to let anyone bother me about my tree. Does everything have Jesus on the name of it in your house? Are your dishes relegious themed. Are your towels relegious themed?
My Christmas tree is filled with relegious items.
If you don't want a tree, that is your privilage but get off of my back about it. I am tired of those who think that they are somehow better than others because they do not have a tree.

betty
 

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Posted by TEXASGRANDMA (Member # 847) on :
 
yet you do not see Santa praying to the baby Jesus????????????

hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm


BESIDES IF SOMEONE CAN HAVE A GRINCH TO STEAL CHRISTMAS I CAN HAVE A SANTA PRAYING TO JESUS.
at least Jesus is in my picture!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
 

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Posted by TEXASGRANDMA (Member # 847) on :
 
All I know, is I wish my apartment looked like that.
betty
 

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Posted by Gramajo320 (Member # 4667) on :
 
Hi Betty,

A huge amen to your postings and I am in total agreement with you! One thing for certain is that we will celebrate and honor Jesus's birth and we will have a very blessed wonderful time as we celebrate and honor Jesus's birth! No one can ruin it for us and no one can take it away no matter how much they try or what they say! God bless you very much, Betty!

With love from your friend,
Joanne
 

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Posted by hardcore (Member # 4492) on :
 

quote:

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Originally posted by TEXASGRANDMA:
Is it apprpriate to be using cuss words on a Christian site (@#$# , is just a form for one)?

I have decided that I am not going to let anyone bother me about my tree. Does everything have Jesus on the name of it in your house? Are your dishes relegious themed. Are your towels relegious themed?
My Christmas tree is filled with relegious items.
If you don't want a tree, that is your privilage but get off of my back about it. I am tired of those who think that they are somehow better than others because they do not have a tree.

betty

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Ha! Betty, you're funny. I guess you can safely use @&$*^#* since it didn't get censored.

I can't speak for others, but I certainly don't think I'm better than anyone else. I know better. I do happen to be more informed about the real origins of Christmas than some, that's all.

Some of us have chosen to post the truth about Christmas and you have chosen to be one of its most 'vocal' defenders. It's no different than some of the other passionate discussions that happen here. Others could easily accuse you and I of "being on their backs" with regard to false teaching, but they don't. They just continue to defend their position. Of course they did manage to chase us into a separate forum. Maybe we need a new forum for those who want to expose the truth about Christmas

Seriously though, I certainly don't judge you or think you're not saved because you put up a Christmas tree. I disagree, but I love ya just the same.
 

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Posted by TEXASGRANDMA (Member # 847) on :
 
thanks gramajo,

I am looking forward to the Christmas program at my mom's Church and to the candlight service at the Church we attended in Texas before we moved. The ladies at my mom's Church are having a Christmas party and I am going with my mom and my daughter.
God bless you GramaJo and take care. The Christian radio station in Washington and in Houston are both playing Christmas music. It is so weird, when you come here you think only a few celeberate Jesus' birth. But, Churches all over the world celeberate Christmas. So, gramajo, and HisGrace we are not the minority. In fact excpet for the few here that don't celeberate Christmas, the only ones that don't celeberate are Jehovah Wittness, Church of God, and Muslims and Jews. The main stream Churches celeberate Christmas.
betty
 

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Posted by hardcore (Member # 4492) on :
 
wparr - you'll love this - from a church near me:

At the Manger with Santa and Friends
December 3

Join Santa and his friends Frosty & Rudolph for a fun-filled time sure to thrill every child. Participate in a variety of special holiday activities with Santa’s elves – including a petting zoo with manger animals, cookie decorating, Christmas crafts, face painting, games, free play in our 21/2 story indoor play gym, breakfast or lunch in our food court and, of course, pictures with Santa Clause. Last, but certainly not least, you won’t want to miss the special Christmas performance by the Church Mice & Puppet team as they present, through music & drama, the true reason we celebrate Christmas – the birth of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ. Invite your neighbors, family & friends and we will see you the week after Thanksgiving!
 

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Posted by hardcore (Member # 4492) on :
 

quote:

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Originally posted by TEXASGRANDMA:


So, gramajo, and HisGrace we are not the minority.

The main stream Churches celeberate Christmas.

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quote:

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Originally posted by TEXASGRANDMA:
Personally, I don't see anything wrong with the Church doing that. You know the same people here complaing here, also got gifts from santa under their tree. I don't think santa should be in santuary, but in a seperate building for the children, I don't see problem.
betty

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quote:

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Originally posted by helpforhomeschoolers:
Not getting someone a Christmas present has nothing to do with being a Grinch! Hal and I stopped giving each other Birthday presents almost 14 years ago and we stopped giving each other Christmas presents almost 4 or 5 years ago. We did it by choice and desire. We both hated feeling like you had to go out and find just the right thing or worse getting or giving something the other person did not want or need because you were obligated to a tradition. We decided instead that we would much rather go on a ski trip together or spend the weekend at a hideaway in the hills when we wanted than spend money unecessarily on somethiing the other didnt want or need. That is what we do and there is nothing Grincy about it. Does that mean I dont get gifts? Of Course not, I still get more gifts than I care to get just because. I get something sweet or thoughtful from my husband almost weekly; sometimes it is just a special flavored coffee or tea from one of his trips to the market, but he is forever bringing me something. I am pretty spoiled by my husband, I have to watch saying something is cute or pretty because he will bring one home. So your judgement is in error Betty. Lots of people dont give Christmas or Birthday gifts and they aren't Grincy because of it. Walter has been in my home and I can tell you that his wife is not either lacking anything in the being cared for department, and you can listen to Skreeman speak 5 minutes about his wife and know that he adores her!! To insinuate that someone does not love their husband or wife because they dont give Christmas or Birthday gifts is just plain ugly. You surprised me with that one sister.

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quote:

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Originally posted by TEXASGRANDMA:
It breaks my heart that hard core will not get any gifts. If I had brought her address with me to Houston, I would send her something myself.
betty

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quote:

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Originally posted by wparr:
[QUOTE]

NO PROBLEM WITH SANTA IN CHURCH?????????

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Now wparr, be fair. The church advertisement did say that it would be "a fun-filled time sure to thrill every child".

How can we be possibly be against that?
 

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Posted by TEXASGRANDMA (Member # 847) on :
 
HardCore,

I still wish you would have a present. You do not have to go broke with Christmas. 2 years in a row, God provided money for Christmas for us, money that came from an unexpected source. To me Christmas presents are not about how expensive something is but the thoughtfulness of the person. My baby sister has been dead 12 years, I still have little things that she got me over the years. When I look at this things they remind me of her and her kind heart. I am not saying that i need reminders to remember her, but each item she picked for me showed how much she cared, that she would look for something that would bring me joy.
Yes, there are so people who try to out spend each other, but not everybody does.

You do not have to go broke at Christmas. You can chose to be responsible.
betty
 

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Posted by helpforhomeschoolers (Member # 15) on :
 

quote:

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Heck, I'm the only one in my family and circle of friends who isn't stressed and broke by January 1st. We are actually really able to enjoy a time when the rest of the world is fighting traffic, long store lines, shrinking bank accounts, and enduring hearing "Santa Baby" one million times between Thanksgiving and the New Year.

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I was thinking this yesterday. This has been a very freeing decision for us as well. There is no worry how we are going to "afford Christmas"; I absolutely positively hate to shop anyway and so not having to shop is wonderful.

Do you know that our local Wal Mart this year had people camped out there overnight to get to their hands on one the new XBox 360's that were going to be on sale on Black Firday! The cost $300.00 - $400.00 dollars! Can you imagine? I cant. All I can think of is how many local Indian missionaries this would support in India, so that they could go and preach the Gospel in the villages there. I could not even begin to want to give my kids an XBox 360 for Christmas! Praise God because I have been blessed with kids that dont want one either. Desi has trouble paying 21.00 for a pair of jeans at Kmart because she knows that she can get them at Wear it again Sam's for for $5.00.

Any way, the things we have given up regarding Christmas, we do not miss. Not even a little bit. If I had millions in the bank I would not do things differently. I just dont want much. I can tell you that is not my doing.
 

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Posted by TEXASGRANDMA (Member # 847) on :
 
i asked for a jacket. mine is 15 years old.
does that make me greedy? I found one for 40 that was half price which made it 20.
WoW I am high mantience!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!\
betty
 

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Posted by helpforhomeschoolers (Member # 15) on :
 
No Betty, it does not make you greedy or high matainence, but why does it make us to be "grinches" and "scrouges" or ones to be ashamed of ourselves or siding with the ACLU or playing into the devil's hand because we didn't ask for a Christmas present, but just went and got a new jacket because we have either moved or are moving away from celebrating Christmas?

You guys dont want us to tell you or the world what Christmas is not, but you sure want to make us to be the enemy because we dont believe it is what you say it is.

You guys have accused us of all kinds of things because we believe that Christmas has pagan origins and is Man's tradition not God's. You have said we are trying to take Christ out of something.


The point is that Christ is not to the Christian supposed to be the reason for a season. Christ is supposed to be our life. The reason for every season... the one who is living this life in us.

We should not be able to take him out of anyting and we should not be in what HE would not be in.

Do you think Jesus would fill his house with Santa and shuffle through the crowds at the mall for a good deal on Nike or thank people for honoring the Father with their Holiday shopping and decorating. If you do more power to you, but for those of us who dont and believe there is a Biblical reason for believing as we do, why do you begrudge us for saying so?
 

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Posted by TEXASGRANDMA (Member # 847) on :
 
As a Christian I fight stuff like this:


ADF Battles Georgia County's 'Christmas' Ban in Schools

By Jim Brown
December 5, 2005

(AgapePress) - A Christian attorney says he's fighting the censorship of Christmas in a Georgia school district where teachers are prohibited from wearing clothing with any sort of religious connotation -- and are under instruction not to have "Christmas" parties in the classroom, but to refer them as "winter" parties.

The Alliance Defense Fund (ADF) has contacted more than 9,000 school districts this year, informing them of the constitutionality of religious expression at Christmastime. The campaign is called "Merry Christmas -- It's Okay to Say It." But apparently the Jackson County (Georgia) school system never got the memo.

ADF attorney David Cortman says Jackson County officials have completely eradicated Christmas from the public school system.

"Teachers are not allowed to say 'Merry Christmas' [and] they're not allowed to wear any pins or angels or crosses or clothing that has any religious connotation or affiliation," Cortman explains. "They can't have a Christmas party -- they have to call it a 'winter party.' They can't sing religious songs. In fact ... they actually censored the word 'God' from the song."

In addition, says the attorney, teachers are prohibited from displaying a Bible in their classroom. The ADF attorney says such restrictions are "incredible," explaining that there are no legal grounds upon which they can be based.

"[T]here is no support in the law" for Jackson County's dictates, he says. "No court has ever held that it's illegal to say 'Merry Christmas' or have a Christmas party or be able to sing Christmas songs, both religious and secular," he says. Instead, Cortman believes threats and intimidation from groups like the American Civil Liberties Union have led partly to the county's ban on Christmas expression.

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yes, I admit that I have issues with Christians who are on the same side of ACLU. If you are against Jesus in Christmas then you are on the side of the ACLU. It is the truth no matter how painful it is for you to realize that.
I have signed countless petitions to keep Jesus in Christmas. It is sending mixed messages in the world for Christians to be fighting to take Jesus out of Christmas. As long as Christ is in Christmas, you can't deny it is about Jesus. When it changes to Wintermass then you have a point. For now you are on the side of the ACLU, and as a Christian I have issues with that.
betty
 

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Posted by TEXASGRANDMA (Member # 847) on :
 
This country started out as a Christian nation. Notice on your dollar bill it says in God we trust not in Allah.
point made.
betty
 

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Posted by TEXASGRANDMA (Member # 847) on :
 
The only Relgion that should be taught in American schools is Christian. If our money says In God we trust than we should teach only the Christian Relegion.
betty
 

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Posted by TEXASGRANDMA (Member # 847) on :
 
so you should send your donations to the ACLU, I am sure they would appreicate your effort in helping them removing Jesus from Christmas, In God we trust from our money, and all teaching about anything Christian from our schools.
betty
 

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Posted by TEXASGRANDMA (Member # 847) on :
 
you got that right. You want to be an America citizen and have rights involved with doing so, then become a Christian, put up a Christmas tree or leave the country
Offended by God then stop getting our money handouts.

betty
 

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Posted by Gramajo320 (Member # 4667) on :
 
Hi Betty,

I say a huge Amen, Amen, and Amen!!!! God bless you very much, Betty! Also I look forward to seeing more of our christmas songs! God bless you!

With love from your friend,
Joanne
 

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Posted by Gramajo320 (Member # 4667) on :
 
Our Lord and Saviour is Jesus Christ! He always has been and He always will be and you cannot change that fact whatsoever so don't even try! I prefer that true christians do praying so we will be praying for you to quit doing satan's work!!!

You need to repent, WParr of your very unchristian judging words!!!!
 

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Posted by Gramajo320 (Member # 4667) on :
 
You need to learn how to read more accurately! Those aren't my words that you posted! My only words that I said is repnt of your unchristian words!
Now, WParr, Au Revoir to you!!!!
 

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Posted by TEXASGRANDMA (Member # 847) on :
 
Take your OWN advice "lady"

so now you question whether I am a lady? Your attitude stinks. You think you are a better Christian because you do not celeberate Christmas?
hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm
betty
 

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Posted by Gramajo320 (Member # 4667) on :
 
Hi Betty,

Another huge Amen to your posting! I look forward to some more Christmas songs which are a true blessing this time of year! We will be honoring and celebrating Jesus's birth and having a very blessed time doing so! God bless you very much, Betty!

With love from your friend,
Joanne
 

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Posted by helpforhomeschoolers (Member # 15) on :
 

quote:

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You want to be an America citizen and have rights involved with doing so, then become a Christian, put up a Christmas tree or leave the country

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quote:

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Originally posted by oneyearandcounting:
Betty
Don't take this the wrong way but have you lost your mind. Really don't take this the wrong way please but the things you are saying now are just crasy.
So by your warped logic we should be teaching Christian stuff plus everything else.

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OUCH!! (Getting kind of personal don't you think?)
 

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Posted by TEXASGRANDMA (Member # 847) on :
 
Sure, I play Walts little game. As far as my losing my mind, if losing my mind means celeberating the greatest gift mankind has ever gotten, count me in.
Jesus' birth is well worth celeberating and if I am crazy to do so, so be it.
One day Jesus will rule this earth and trust me, there will be only one Relgion taught in schools.
betty
 

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Posted by yahsway (Member # 3738) on :
 
One thing I truly love about this country is our freedoms. Freedom to worship as we see fit, freedom of speech, ect...

We must remember that Christmas means different things to different peoples.

To the Christian, its about Yeshua
To the secularist, its about Gifts, traditions, ect..
Others, it may mean nothing more than someone elses freedom to celebrate a paticular Holy Day.And I for one stand behind the rights of people here to celeebrate and worship as they see fit.

This country was founded on Biblical principles, I agree. But Christmas was not one of them. In fact, history can show that it was not even considered among those who came here first to get away from the tyranny of the RCC.

Later, it was adopted into our society and being the freedom country that we are I for one will uphold anyones right to such freedom. Even God gives us all the freedom of choice. Blessed be His name!

Actually, when you think about it, Christmas has a blend of all sorts of different religons and beliefs. Probably because we are the melting pot of the world. Some of us celebrate it traditionally, others celebrate it without all the glitz and hype, some others do not celebrate it at all but do respect others rights to do so. Its all about convictions. Ones conviction may not be anothers. Does this make one more right or rightous that another. I say no, for only Yahweh knows the heart.

HFHS was right when she said that only ones convictions on the matter of Christmas must come from The Holy Spirit. There is much debate on the subject and that can be a good thing as iron sharpens iron.

I love each and everyone here, I agree with some and disagree with others, based only on my personal convictions. But thats the wonderful thing about freedom. And one of the things I love best about this country.

There is a saying on the statue of liberty refering to give me your tired, hungry, ect.. I do not know the actual quote but it does not say give me only the Christians. If it did, that would be a very prideful saying indeed.

I was thinking, Holiday Tree vs Christmas Tree?

It is just a tree. What real significance does the tree have for those who celebrate Christmas as far as Yeshua is concerned. Some say its significance is in Yeshuas Death, and that might be true in a sense, but if Christmas is about His birth, and celebrating His Birthday, how does the tree fit into it?

And if Holiday actually means Holy Day, then isnt that like saying Holy Tree? and what makes the Tree Holy? Just some questions I ponder on.

Now if you said to me that the Christmas tree is about His death, Then I could understand that. Christ-mass Tree. or Christ death on the tree. But then what does that have to do with His birthday?

Im not being mean spirited, these are just questions in my own mind about the terms Holiday and Christmas. I know when I did celebrate Christmas, I used to love that song "Happy Holidays". Well, just wanted to add my 2cents. Thanks for listening. Love yo all, Cindy
 

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Posted by TEXASGRANDMA (Member # 847) on :
 
A Chirstmas tree is different from any other tree. That is why I signed petitions to make our Christmas trees called Christmas trees and not Holiday trees.
betty
 

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Posted by wparr (Member # 891) on :
 
And the world will be soooooooo much better off if we call them "christmas" rather than "holiday" tree.

What a worthy battle.

Lets ALL mobilize and break out our weapons.
 

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Posted by TEXASGRANDMA (Member # 847) on :
 
To keep Jesus as the reason for the season, is indeed a worthy battle, that I am proud to fight.
http://wnd.com/news/article.asp?ARTICLE_ID=47784
this is what many Christians are fighting against


betty
 

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Posted by saintbygrace (Member # 4401) on :
 
The NEW great commision

Go therefore into all the nation, signing petitions, lobbying polititions, passing laws:
To enfore my comandments
To outlaw all sins
To force ALL to celebrate the holidays
To make manditory chritmas trees - easter eggs and the likes
 

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Posted by TEXASGRANDMA (Member # 847) on :
 
very funny. Ask most ministers and they can tell you many who reach out to Jesus because of the Christmas season. The Pastor here in Texas asked us to be praying especially for those who only attend on Christmas that they will recieve Christ as their Savior.
betty

But, seeing how you like the standards of the ACLU, maybe you should consider joining.
betty
 

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Posted by saintbygrace (Member # 4401) on :
 
I do not support the ACLU
but I would side with them over forced chritmas and christianity.

Just because many man reach out to Jesus at christmas is no excuse to force it.

I don't know what Bible you are reading, maybe mines missing that part about forcing christianity on others.

We do need the ACLU and laws to protect us from people that have ideas like yours

really really scary

If that is a spirit led concept, I would dare say it is not the Holy Spirit.
 

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Posted by saintbygrace (Member # 4401) on :
 
WOW this all just blows me away totaly

MAKE people become christians and celebrate christmas

You would only be adding phony pretend christians

There are allready to many phony pretend christians out there now that it's so hard to find the real genuine ones (like a needle in a haystack)

That would make it just about impossible to find the real genuine christian, they would be hiding out, or leaving the country like the pilgrims left England

This just might push me into the other camp and join the ACLU

You gona decide which bible we can read, which songs we can sing, make us register like China does
 

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Posted by TEXASGRANDMA (Member # 847) on :
 
I was playing the game with Walt. I realize that we will not have a perfect world until Jesus, rules the world. But this does not mean Americans should give up all our freedoms without a fight. Children have a right to say the word Christmas at school. There are many Christian lawyers who are fighting to keep freedom for Christians. One school in Califorian are allowing their students to celeberate every Holiday thise season but Christmas. ( I am talking about Muslim, African, and Jewish) This is not fair and the lawyer said it is not even consitutional.
betty
 

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Posted by TEXASGRANDMA (Member # 847) on :
 
Dear Betty,


Today, the city of Ada, Oklahoma, has a nativity scene as part of their Christmas lights display.

But if it weren't for the insistence of a concerned citizen, Craig Rogers, and the help of the ACLJ, this would not have been the case!

Craig alerted us when he was informed by the city that a nativity scene would not be included in the park's Christmas display. We directed him to our Religious Holiday Displays Information letter, he took copies of it to distribute at a city meeting, and a nativity scene was added to the Christmas plans.

A solid victory for Craig ... Ada, Oklahoma ... the ACLJ ... and you!

Craig's inquiry to the ACLJ is just one of many we have already received regarding the Christmas holiday.

The issues range from students being told they cannot sing songs with Christian themes in their winter concerts ... to cities telling their citizens they cannot display nativity scenes.

(Thankfully, as in Craig's case, we have been able to resolve each of these cases quickly.)

And today, I want you to know what your rights are and how the ACLJ is prepared to help you exercise them this Christmas.

You can access our online Christmas Resource Center by clicking here.

This resource center, prepared by our expert legal team, addresses the constitutionality of school holiday celebrations and privately-erected or government-sponsored holiday displays; and we are here to help.

Please feel free to use it.

It will answer your questions ...

... and empower you with the necessary legal elements to enforce your right to say "Merry Christmas" ... sing Christ-centered Christmas carols ... display a nativity scene ... and more.

The ACLJ is here to help you! If you have any questions or concerns, simply click here to visit our Christmas Resource Center or call the ACLJ at (757) 226-2489.

Before I close, let me mention that we have joined an important campaign to support Judge Samuel Alito, President Bush's nominee to the United States Supreme Court. Judge Alito has a judicial philosophy that has been very supportive of religious expression, including the display of nativity scenes in public areas.

He is indeed a worthy candidate who should be quickly confirmed! As the ACLU, People For the American Way, and others continue to dismantle the "Christ" of Christmas ... we will continue to fight for your rights and the nomination of Judge Alito to the Supreme Court of the United States.

Merry Christmas from the ACLJ! And like Craig Rogers did - let your voice be heard!
 

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Posted by TEXASGRANDMA (Member # 847) on :
 
http://www.bethanyroberts.com/ReasonfortheSeason.htm


http://home.att.net/~JesusIsTheReason/index.htm
 

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Posted by TEXASGRANDMA (Member # 847) on :
 
http://www.jeffstory.com/poem1.html


Someone gave me copy of this the first Christmas after my dad passed away. It brought me comfort.
I hope it comforts all of us who have loved ones in Heaven.
betty
 

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Posted by TEXASGRANDMA (Member # 847) on :
 
http://www.christmas-poems.com/christmas_bells.htm
 

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Posted by WildB (Member # 2917) on :
 

quote:

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Originally posted by saintbygrace:
The NEW great commision

Go therefore into all the nation, signing petitions, lobbying polititions, passing laws:
To enfore my comandments
To outlaw all sins
To force ALL to celebrate the holidays
To make manditory chritmas trees - easter eggs and the likes

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A saint or a aint? Very well done, wisdom put forward. Short and to the point.

Welcome to the cybor space camp fire.
 

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Posted by TEXASGRANDMA (Member # 847) on :
 
http://www.rienzihills.com/ChristmasSing/firstnoel.htm

http://www.christmas-carols.net/
 

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Posted by HisGrace (Member # 3438) on :
 
What great sites, Betty - thanks!
 

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Posted by Thunderz7 (Member # 31) on :
 
Zac.14:9 And the LORD shall be king over all the earth: in that day shall there be one LORD, and his name one.

In that day when there is one LORD who is king over all the earth, and HIS NAME one:
What will we see?

Zac.14:16 ¶ And it shall come to pass, that every one that is left of all the nations which came against Jerusalem shall even go up from year to year to worship the King, the LORD of hosts, and to keep the feast of tabernacles.
17 And it shall be, that whoso will not come up of all the families of the earth unto Jerusalem to worship the King, the LORD of hosts, even upon them shall be no rain.
18 And if the family of Egypt go not up, and come not, that have no rain; there shall be the plague, wherewith the LORD will smite the heathen that come not up to keep the feast of tabernacles.
19 This shall be the punishment of Egypt, and the punishment of all nations that come not up to keep the feast of tabernacles.
20 In that day shall there be upon the bells of the horses, HOLINESS UNTO THE LORD; and the pots in the LORD’S house shall be like the bowls before the altar.
21 Yea, every pot in Jerusalem and in Judah shall be holiness unto the LORD of hosts: and all they that sacrifice shall come and take of them, and seethe therein: and in that day there shall be no more the Canaanite in the house of the LORD of hosts.

So it appears there is Biblical, scriptural, prophetic backing of celebration of the birth of Yeshua/Jesus.
Everyone will worship the LORD, and go up to the Feast of Tabernacles.

Zachariah says the bells will be on horses, NOT REINDEER.

It will be at the time of the Feast of Trumpets, the Day of Attonement and the Feast of Tabernacles, late September to early October, IT WILL NOT BE DECEMBER 25TH.

Many have tried to show the truth, that the real birth of Jesus was the Feast of Tabernacles, NOT DEC. 25th.

When HE is LORD and king of all the earth, those who don't go up to the Feast of Tabernacles to worship HIM, shall have no rain upon them.
GOD will smite them as the Egyptians, they will be no more, like the Canaanites.

If you eat meat offered to idols, the Bible says that is ok, if it does not convict and defile your conscience.
So if you eat meat of idols on Dec. 25th, by the Bible, there is nothing wrong with that.

But Dec. 25th is not and never will be the birth of Jesus or the Feast of Tabernacles.

So if you wish, eat the meat offered to idols on Dec. 25th, have a good time, enjoy family and friends.
But please remember, if you preach that Dec. 25th is Jesus' birthday, you preach a lie.

(to borrow a line from another board member)
"SHAME ON YOU", if you tell those whose conscience is defiled by the meat offered to idols, that the meat is good, the meat is holy, and they are wrong for not eating it.

"SHAME ON YOU" if you call other board members grench, scrudge, and more vile names, because of their convictions.

"SHAME ON YOU" if you call family members of other board members names, and condemn them becase they don't eat meat offered to idols.

"SHAME ON YOU" if you say that those who don't worship just like you, believe just like you, celebrete just like you, are wrong and should leave the country.

"SHAME ON YOU" if you accuse people who stand for Jesus with all their being, in the best ways they know how, of being on the side of satan and the ACLU.

"SHAME ON YOU" when people go out of their way to give you truth and you question their Christanity.

"SHAME ON YOU" if you Amen every such asinine and ludicrous statement.

T7
 

---

Posted by WhiteEagle (Member # 3728) on :
 

quote:

---

Originally posted by Thunderz7:

It will be at the time of the Feast of Trumpets, the Day of Attonement and the Feast of Tabernacles, late September to early October, IT WILL NOT BE DECEMBER 25TH.

Many have tried to show the truth, that the real birth of Jesus was the Feast of Tabernacles, NOT DEC. 25th.

When HE is LORD and king of all the earth, those who don't go up to the Feast of Tabernacles to worship HIM, shall have no rain upon them.
GOD will smite them as the Egyptians, they will be no more, like the Canaanites.

If you eat meat offered to idols, the Bible says that is ok, if it does not convict and defile your conscience.
So if you eat meat of idols on Dec. 25th, by the Bible, there is nothing wrong with that.

But Dec. 25th is not and never will be the birth of Jesus or the Feast of Tabernacles.

So if you wish, eat the meat offered to idols on Dec. 25th, have a good time, enjoy family and friends.
But please remember, if you preach that Dec. 25th is Jesus' birthday, you preach a lie.

(to borrow a line from another board member)
"SHAME ON YOU", if you tell those whose conscience is defiled by the meat offered to idols, that the meat is good, the meat is holy, and they are wrong for not eating it.

"SHAME ON YOU" if you call other board members grench, scrudge, and more vile names, because of their convictions.

"SHAME ON YOU" if you call family members of other board members names, and condemn them becase they don't eat meat offered to idols.

"SHAME ON YOU" if you say that those who don't worship just like you, believe just like you, celebrete just like you, are wrong and should leave the country.

"SHAME ON YOU" if you accuse people who stand for Jesus with all their being, in the best ways they know how, of being on the side of satan and the ACLU.

"SHAME ON YOU" when people go out of their way to give you truth and you question their Christanity.

"SHAME ON YOU" if you Amen every such asinine and ludicrous statement.

T7

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by WhiteEagle:
I'm going to address this post.

The SHAME IS ON CHRISTIANS WHO ALLOW ALL PUBLIC EXPRESSIONS OF CHRIST TO BE BANNED FROM THE PUBLIC VIEW.

No one knows the exact date of Christ's birthday.
Yes, yes it's in late September or early October during the Feasts, but those dates change every year by a few days. The Jewish Calendar only has 360 days, not 365 and they determine those Feast days according to their calendar, not our secular one.

If Christians could establish an exact date for Christ's REAL earthly birthday that would be wonderful, but no one has yet. (that I know of.)


When one worships God in Spirit and Truth, one worships God by their heart intent. We, who celebrate Christmas do it as unto the Lord to celebrate the FACT THE HE WAS BORN ON EARTH.

Even atheists know the December 25th marks the day that makes them think about Christ's birth.

Slowly and purposefully your Freedom to worship Christ or even mention His name in public will be a crime in America.

It's a SHAME THAT A NATION THAT HAS SO MANY FREE VOTING CHRISTIANS ARE ALLOWING THEMSELVES TO LOSE ALL THE FREEDOMS GAINED BY PREVIOUS GENERATIONS.

This issue is bigger than an one person's personal convictions about "eating foods offered to idols". I have no problem with those who wish to ignore Christmas as Christ's birth as a lie, you are welcome to do that and I could care less.

I'm not wanting to force my convictions on others in that regard, except that unless Christians stand up for the Freedoms we have had, we will lose them all.

Many here are bickering about sematics and don't have the bigger picture.

---

quote:

---

The SHAME IS ON CHRISTIANS WHO ALLOW ALL PUBLIC EXPRESSIONS OF CHRIST TO BE BANNED FROM THE PUBLIC VIEW.

---

quote:

---

No one knows the exact date of Christ's birthday.
Yes, yes it's in late September or early October during the Feasts, but those dates change every year by a few days. The Jewish Calendar only has 360 days, not 365 and they determine those Feast days according to their calendar, not our secular one.

---

quote:

---

When one worships God in Spirit and Truth, one worships God by their heart intent. We, who celebrate Christmas do it as unto the Lord to celebrate the FACT THE HE WAS BORN ON EARTH.

---

quote:

---

I'm not wanting to force my convictions on others in that regard, except that unless Christians stand up for the Freedoms we have had, we will lose them all.

---

Agreed


As I said, you have made many valid points,
I agree we must stand for our rights;
In defending these rights we may sometimes find ourselves on the same side of a given fence with those we have been opposed to at other fences.

At the abortion fence and gay rights fence,
I do find myself standing in the voting booth on the same side of the fence as the RCC, against the Democrats.

At the fence of public expression of Jesus,
I find myself on the same side of the fence as the JW, the Mormons, and the SDA, even though our expression is different, we stand on the same side of this fence.

It is quite possible to find ourselves at times on the side of a fence with Muslems, the ACLU, (even some Democrats )

I would feel comfortable calling you "brother", I can't say that for everyone here.
I believe it is a thing of the heart with you;
I believe you are looking at a bigger picture than sematics.
I feel that in regards to meat ofered idols, you and I see the meat, and the idols, much the same.


Luke 2:11 For unto you is born this day in the city of David a Saviour, which is Christ the Lord.
Psalms 118:24 This is the day which the LORD hath made; we will rejoice and be glad in it.

"This day" to me, is the day the LORD made,
and born to me "this day" is a Savior, the Anointed LORD.
In the "city of David", ,
city of David = Bethlehem = the House of Bread
city of David = Mt. Zion = the Tabernacle of David
In my tabernacle is worship, praise and rejoicing "this day" be it Dec.25th, 15th of Tishrei or Feb. 31st, for he is born to this earth.

T7
 

---

Posted by hardcore (Member # 4492) on :
 

quote:

---

Originally posted by WhiteEagle:
Hardcore:

Thank you for enlightening me on the source of why you and some others here are so against Christmas.

It's back to that tired old belief that The Roman Catholic Church is the Great Wh--re of Revelation.

The RCC came up with the idea of Christmas, so that means we have to automatically call it a lie.

The Catholic Church contains many many people who are born again Christians and who love the Lord.

I'm not impressed with all this anit-Christmas sentiment. I heard about all this stuff 15 years ago from my sister and her Chick tracts.

The Catholic church is against abortion and euthanasia. Does that mean you are totally for abortion and euthanasia?

WE WHO CELEBRATE CHRISTMAS ARE CELEBRATING THAT IT IS A FACT, THAT JESUS CHRIST WAS BORN AND DID COME TO EARTH.

Is that a lie also?

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by Thunderz7:
WhiteEagle,
unlike others you have made valid points in your stand.
Unlike others you acknowledge the truth of the facts that others won't see.
Other than associating people with the ACLU, I respect your position.
But then again, it's not you and I who have dragged this topic to near three pages in this thread, and five pages in the thread on the Exposing False Doctrine board.

quote:

---

The SHAME IS ON CHRISTIANS WHO ALLOW ALL PUBLIC EXPRESSIONS OF CHRIST TO BE BANNED FROM THE PUBLIC VIEW.

---

Every other group has the right of free speach,
I am angered that Christians are singled out and denied the same rights as gays and others.
I believe in public expression of Jesus, and when I get the opportunity, I always use the NAME Jesus, it gets more attention than Lord or God, it even gets more attention than Christ. It is about bringing their attentiion to the NAME.

quote:

---

No one knows the exact date of Christ's birthday.
Yes, yes it's in late September or early October during the Feasts, but those dates change every year by a few days. The Jewish Calendar only has 360 days, not 365 and they determine those Feast days according to their calendar, not our secular one.

---

The Hebrew feast days and festivals are laid out in scripture;
their calendar has been around a lot longer than ours;
whether it was given them by YHWH, or YHWH used the one they had, the feast and festivals of the Hebrew Calendar still stand as "what is written".
Just as Christmas is always on Dec. 25th,
the Feast of Tabernacles is always on the 15th of Tishrei.

quote:

---

When one worships God in Spirit and Truth, one worships God by their heart intent. We, who celebrate Christmas do it as unto the Lord to celebrate the FACT THE HE WAS BORN ON EARTH.

---

["We", who celebrate Christmas]
Instead of "WE",
if you had said "I",
or even "some",
I could agree 100%
For your part, I believe you, and again respect your position;
the intend of other hearts doesn't appear the same as yours.

quote:

---

I'm not wanting to force my convictions on others in that regard, except that unless Christians stand up for the Freedoms we have had, we will lose them all.

---

Agreed


As I said, you have made many valid points,
I agree we must stand for our rights;
In defending these rights we may sometimes find ourselves on the same side of a given fence with those we have been opposed to at other fences.

At the abortion fence and gay rights fence,
I do find myself standing in the voting booth on the same side of the fence as the RCC, against the Democrats.

At the fence of public expression of Jesus,
I find myself on the same side of the fence as the JW, the Mormons, and the SDA, even though our expression is different, we stand on the same side of this fence.

It is quite possible to find ourselves at times on the side of a fence with Muslems, the ACLU, (even some Democrats )

I would feel comfortable calling you "brother", I can't say that for everyone here.
I believe it is a thing of the heart with you;
I believe you are looking at a bigger picture than sematics.
I feel that in regards to meat ofered idols, you and I see the meat, and the idols, much the same.


Luke 2:11 For unto you is born this day in the city of David a Saviour, which is Christ the Lord.
Psalms 118:24 This is the day which the LORD hath made; we will rejoice and be glad in it.

"This day" to me, is the day the LORD made,
and born to me "this day" is a Savior, the Anointed LORD.
In the "city of David", ,
city of David = Bethlehem = the House of Bread
city of David = Mt. Zion = the Tabernacle of David
In my tabernacle is worship, praise and rejoicing "this day" be it Dec.25th, 15th of Tishrei or Feb. 31st, for he is born to this earth.

T7

---

Thank you for listening. God bless and I'm a "sister" in Christ.
 

---

Posted by TEXASGRANDMA (Member # 847) on :
 
HOW THE GRINCH STOLE CHRISTMAS
by Dr. Suess




Every Who
Down in Who-ville
Liked Christmas a lot...

But the Grinch,
Who lived just North of Who-ville,
Did NOT!

The Grinch hated Christmas! The whole Christmas season!
Now, please don't ask why. No one quite knows the reason.
It could be that his head wasn't screwed on quite right.
It could be, perhaps, that his shoes were too tight.
But I think that the most likely reason of all
May have been that his heart was two sizes too small.

But,
Whatever the reason,
His heart or his shoes,
He stood there on Christmas Eve, hating the Whos,
Staring down from his cave with a sour, Grinchy frown
At the warm lighted windows below in their town.
For he knew every Who down in Who-ville beneath
Was busy now, hanging a mistleoe wreath.

"And they're hanging their stockings!" he snarled with a sneer.
"Tomorrow is Christmas! It's practically here!"
Then he growled, with his grinch fingers nervously drumming,
"I MUST find a way to keep Christmas from coming!"
For, tomorrow, he knew...

...All the Who girls and boys
Would wake up bright and early. They'd rush for their toys!
And then! Oh, the noise! Oh, the noise! Noise! Noise! Noise!
That's one thing he hated! The NOISE! NOISE! NOISE! NOISE!

Then the Whos, young and old, would sit down to a feast.
And they'd feast! And they'd feast!
And they'd FEAST! FEAST! FEAST! FEAST!
They would start on Who-pudding, and rare Who-roast-beast
Which was something the Grinch couldn't stand in the least!

And THEN
They'd do something he liked least of all!
Every Who down in Who-ville, the tall and the small,
Would stand close together, with Christmas bells ringing.
They'd stand hand-in-hand. And the Whos would start singing!

They'd sing! And they'd sing!
AND they'd SING! SING! SING! SING!
And the more the Grinch thought of the Who-Christmas-Sing
The more the Grinch thought, "I must stop this whole thing!
"Why for fifty-three years I've put up with it now!
I MUST stop Christmas from coming!
...But HOW?"

Then he got an idea!
An awful idea!
THE GRINCH
GOT A WONDERFUL, AWFUL IDEA!

"I know just what to do!" The Grinch Laughed in his throat.
And he made a quick Santy Claus hat and a coat.
And he chuckled, and clucked, "What a great Grinchy trick!
"With this coat and this hat, I'll look just like Saint Nick!"

"All I need is a reindeer..."
The Grinch looked around.
But since reindeer are scarce, there was none to be found.
Did that stop the old Grinch...?
No! The Grinch simply said,
"If I can't find a reindeer, I'll make one instead!"
So he called his dog Max. Then he took some red thread
And he tied a big horn on top of his head.

THEN
He loaded some bags
And some old empty sacks
On a ramshakle sleigh
And he hitched up old Max.

Then the Grinch said, "Giddyap!"
And the sleigh started down
Toward the homes where the Whos
Lay a-snooze in their town.

All their windows were dark. Quiet snow filled the air.
All the Whos were all dreaming sweet dreams without care
When he came to the first house in the square.
"This is stop number one," The old Grinchy Claus hissed
And he climbed to the roof, empty bags in his fist.

Then he slid down the chimney. A rather tight pinch.
But if Santa could do it, then so could the Grinch.
He got stuck only once, for a moment or two.
Then he stuck his head out of the fireplace flue
Where the little Who stockings all hung in a row.
"These stockings," he grinned, "are the first things to go!"

Then he slithered and slunk, with a smile most unpleasant,
Around the whole room, and he took every present!
Pop guns! And bicycles! Roller skates! Drums!
Checkerboards! Tricycles! Popcorn! And plums!
And he stuffed them in bags. Then the Grinch, very nimbly,
Stuffed all the bags, one by one, up the chimney!

Then he slunk to the icebox. He took the Whos' feast!
He took the Who-pudding! He took the roast beast!
He cleaned out that icebox as quick as a flash.
Why, that Grinch even took their last can of Who-hash!

Then he stuffed all the food up the chimney with glee.
"And NOW!" grinned the Grinch, "I will stuff up the tree!"

And the Grinch grabbed the tree, and he started to shove
When he heard a small sound like the coo of a dove.
He turned around fast, and he saw a small Who!
Little Cindy-Lou Who, who was not more than two.

The Grinch had been caught by this little Who daughter
Who'd got out of bed for a cup of cold water.
She stared at the Grinch and said, "Santy Claus, why,
"Why are you taking our Christmas tree? WHY?"

But, you know, that old Grinch was so smart and so slick
He thought up a lie, and he thought it up quick!
"Why, my sweet little tot," the fake Santy Claus lied,
"There's a light on this tree that won't light on one side.
"So I'm taking it home to my workshop, my dear.
"I'll fix it up there. Then I'll bring it back here."

And his fib fooled the child. Then he patted her head
And he got her a drink and he sent he to bed.
And when Cindy-Lou Who went to bed with her cup,
HE went to the chimney and stuffed the tree up!

Then the last thing he took
Was the log for their fire.
Then he went up the chimney himself, the old liar.
On their walls he left nothing but hooks, and some wire.

And the one speck of food
The he left in the house
Was a crumb that was even too small for a mouse.


Then
He did the same thing
To the other Whos' houses

Leaving crumbs
Much too small
For the other Whos' mouses!

It was quarter past dawn...
All the Whos, still a-bed
All the Whos, still a-snooze
When he packed up his sled,
Packed it up with their presents! The ribbons! The wrappings!
The tags! And the tinsel! The trimmings! The trappings!

Three thousand feet up! Up the side of Mount Crumpit,
He rode to the tiptop to dump it!
"Pooh-pooh to the Whos!" he was grinch-ish-ly humming.
"They're finding out now that no Christmas is coming!
"They're just waking up! I know just what they'll do!
"Their mouths will hang open a minute or two
"The all the Whos down in Who-ville will all cry BOO-HOO!"

"That's a noise," grinned the Grinch,
"That I simply must hear!"
So he paused. And the Grinch put a hand to his ear.
And he did hear a sound rising over the snow.
It started in low. Then it started to grow...

But the sound wasn't sad!
Why, this sound sounded merry!
It couldn't be so!
But it WAS merry! VERY!

He stared down at Who-ville!
The Grinch popped his eyes!
Then he shook!
What he saw was a shocking surprise!

Every Who down in Who-ville, the tall and the small,
Was singing! Without any presents at all!
He HADN'T stopped Christmas from coming!
IT CAME!
Somehow or other, it came just the same!

And the Grinch, with his grinch-feet ice-cold in the snow,
Stood puzzling and puzzling: "How could it be so?
It came without ribbons! It came without tags!
"It came without packages, boxes or bags!"
And he puzzled three hours, `till his puzzler was sore.
Then the Grinch thought of something he hadn't before!
"Maybe Christmas," he thought, "doesn't come from a store.
"Maybe Christmas...perhaps...means a little bit more!"

And what happened then...?
Well...in Who-ville they say
That the Grinch's small heart
Grew three sizes that day!
And the minute his heart didn't feel quite so tight,
He whizzed with his load through the bright morning light
And he brought back the toys! And the food for the feast!
And he...

...HE HIMSELF...!
The Grinch carved the roast beast!


Even the Grinch repented and celeberated Christmas.
 

---

Posted by wparr (Member # 891) on :
 
BUT HE DID NOT CELEBRATE JESUS

Your post shows MY position thar christmas is NOT about Jesus
 

---

Posted by TEXASGRANDMA (Member # 847) on :
 
The story of A Christmas Carol begins on Christmas Eve, with Scrooge at his place of business. The book does not specifically state what business he is in, though it is usually assumed that he is a banker or professional money lender; some recent versions portray him as a solicitor. Whatever his main business is, he has a good reputation as an honest businessman but seems to have usurous relationships with people of little means. These relationships, along with his lack of charity and shabby treatment of his clerk, Bob Crachit, seem to be his major vices.

After introducing Scrooge and showing his shabby treatment of his personal business and relations the novel resumes with Scrooge at his residence, intent on spending Christmas Eve alone. Then he is awakened in the night by the ghost of his deceased business partner, Jacob Marley. Jacob Marley in life spent his career exploiting the poor and as a result has been damned. Marley has visited Scrooge to warn him that he risks meeting the same fate, and to announce that he will be visited by three ghosts; Past, Present, and Future. The rest of the novel acts as a biography and psychological profile, showing his evolution to his current state, and the way he is viewed by others. The Ghost of Christmas Past takes him to see his time as a schoolboy many years earlier. Here it is suggested that his father abandoned him to stay at his boarding school, even during Christmas. This is relevant to Scrooge because it shows the beginnings of his lack of socialization and empathy. He does not socialize because he has never experienced steady growth in a family unit. He does not empathize thanks to the way he was treated: as a child, he was the least of his father's concerns and this in turn taught him not to feel for fellow humans. Later the ghost shows how his success in business made him become obsessive and develop a workaholic tendency. His money and work-obsessed personality traits eventually compel Scrooge's fiancée, Belle, to leave him. This hardens his heart. The untimely death of his sister Fan, the one relative who had a close relationship with him, also inures him.

The visit by the Ghost of Christmas Past also reveals the origin of Scrooge's neurotic hatred of Christmas. Most of the events that affected Scrooge's character occurred during the holiday season. The important revelation from the spirit of Christmas Past is why Scrooge has such a negative view of Christmas: the book (which was written in 1843) does not state how long ago all this, or even how old Scrooge is now.

Scrooge has only resentment for the poor, thinking many would be better off dead, "decreasing the surplus population", and praise for the Victorian era workhouses. He has a particular distaste for the merriment of Christmas, his single act of kindness being that he gives his clerk, Bob Cratchit, the day off, more as a result of social mores than any true kindness on his part. He sees the practice as akin to having his pocket picked.

One of the sources of his negative ways is the pain he feels for losing his love, Belle. Engaged to be married to her, he keeps pushing back the wedding until his finances are as healthy as he would like – something that, given his insatiable lust for money, would probably never happen. Realising this, Belle calls off the engagement, later marrying somebody else and making Scrooge further withdraw from society and relationships.

While the book has few overtly religious overtones (Christmas is shown more as a time for kindness and charity rather than worship), many note that the story follows the redemptive model taught by Jesus.
 

---

Posted by WildB (Member # 2917) on :
 
ok~lets get fuzzy and warm.
 

---

Posted by TEXASGRANDMA (Member # 847) on :
 
I would rather be all soft and fuzzy then be a bitter old man or woman who cannot even celeberate my Savior's wonderful gift with joy and love.
betty
 

---

Posted by wparr (Member # 891) on :
 

quote:

---

Originally posted by TEXASGRANDMA:
I would rather be all soft and fuzzy then be a bitter old man or woman who cannot even celeberate my Savior's wonderful gift with joy and love.
betty

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by wparr:

quote:

---

Originally posted by TEXASGRANDMA:
I would rather be all soft and fuzzy then be a bitter old man or woman who cannot even celeberate my Savior's wonderful gift with joy and love.
betty

---

I DO celebrate the birth of my savior YahShua, just NOT they way or time YOU want me to.

I do it the way God's Word shows, not so madeup manmade tradition.

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by TEXASGRANDMA:
Celeberating Christmas is a honor that Christian Churches commit to every year all over the world. Churches are committed to keep Jesus as the reason for the season.
betty

P.S.
wparr,
I am waiting for your apology for calling me a liar.

---

Instead of waiting on an apology, how about praying for him instead? I have a feeling that God will bless you both for it.
 

---

Posted by TEXASGRANDMA (Member # 847) on :
 
I will pray that God will convict him for calling me a liar
 

---

Posted by wparr (Member # 891) on :
 
So TG, you've had NO anger in your heart towards me.

If you can honestly, before God answer that with a NO

Then I'm sorry for wrongly calling you a liar.

If you can't, I forgive you for any anger you have had towards me.


Father God let Your hand be upon my sister Betty's life and heart
Fill Betty with Your peace
Fill Betty with Your love
Fill Betty with Your joy
Fill Betty with Your patience
Fill Betty with Your kindness
Fill Betty with Your goodness
Fill Betty with Your faithfulness
Fill Betty with Your gentleness
Fill Betty with Your self-control

Yahweh, my Elohim: I pray these verses of Your wisdom for Betty

James 1:5-6
(5) But if any of you lacks wisdom, let him ask of God, who gives to all generously and without reproach, and it will be given to him.
(6) But he must ask in faith without any doubting, for the one who doubts is like the surf of the sea, driven and tossed by the wind.

2 Timothy 3:15-17
(15) and that from childhood you have known the sacred writings which are able to give you the wisdom that leads to salvation through faith which is in Christ Jesus.
(16) All Scripture is inspired by God and profitable for teaching, for reproof, for correction, for training in righteousness;
(17) so that the man of God may be adequate, equipped for every good work.

Colossians 3:12-17
(12) So, as those who have been chosen of God, holy and beloved, put on a heart of compassion, kindness, humility, gentleness and patience;
(13) bearing with one another, and forgiving each other, whoever has a complaint against anyone; just as the Lord forgave you, so also should you.
(14) Beyond all these things put on love, which is the perfect bond of unity.
(15) Let the peace of Christ rule in your heart Betty, to which indeed you were called in one body; and be thankful.
(16) Let the word of Christ richly dwell within you Betty, with all wisdom teaching and admonishing one another with psalms and hymns and spiritual songs, singing with thankfulness in your hearts to God.
(17) Whatever you do Betty in word or deed, do all in the name of the Lord Jesus, giving thanks through Him to God the Father.

Colossians 1:9-12
(9) For this reason also, since the day we heard of it, we have not ceased to pray for you and to ask that you Betty may be filled with the knowledge of His will in all spiritual wisdom and understanding,
(10) so that you Betty will walk in a manner worthy of the Lord, to please Him in all respects, bearing fruit in every good work and increasing in the knowledge of God;
(11) strengthened with all power, according to His glorious might, for the attaining of all steadfastness and patience; joyously
(12) giving thanks to the Father, who has qualified us to share in the inheritance of the saints in Light.

Ephesians 1:17-21
(17) that the God of our Lord Jesus Christ, the Father of glory, may give to you Betty a spirit of wisdom and of revelation in the knowledge of Him.
(18) I pray Betty that the eyes of your heart may be enlightened, so that you will know what is the hope of His calling, what are the riches of the glory of His inheritance in the saints,
(19) and what is the surpassing greatness of His power toward us who believe. These are in accordance with the working of the strength of His might
(20) which He brought about in Christ, when He raised Him from the dead and seated Him at His right hand in the heavenly places,
(21) far above all rule and authority and power and dominion, and every name that is named, not only in this age but also in the one to come.

1 Corinthians 2:5
So that your faith Betty would not rest on the wisdom of men, but on the power of God.

Give Betty a deeper revelation of You and Your truth.

Open Betty's eyes to the lies that the enemy sows.

Give Betty a stronger level of discernment.

Bring healing into Betty's life in such a powerful way that all that see and know her will see and know Your power that they may worship you anew.

Abba Father just Bless Betty's life GREATLY for Your glory and honor.

All this I ask by the blood and sacrifice of Yahshua, our savior, our shepherd, our Lord.
 

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Posted by hardcore (Member # 4492) on :
 

quote:

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Originally posted by TEXASGRANDMA:
I will pray that God will convict him for calling me a liar

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Nice.
 

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Posted by TEXASGRANDMA (Member # 847) on :
 
I have actually found our sparring to me amusing.
I will pray for you that God will not only bless you but fill you with the Christmas spirit.
betty
as the little girl says
God Bless us everyone!
I will be like Scooge and celeberate the joy of Christmas every day
 

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Posted by TEXASGRANDMA (Member # 847) on :
 
your name is on my prayer list on the wall back in Washington.
 

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Posted by Thunderz7 (Member # 31) on :
 
TG,
I could not help but notice the difference in wparr's prayer for you, and yours for him.

His prayer for you was striclty scriptural.

But, you prayed that he be filled with the Christmas spirit;
a spirit he obviously sees as a curse to his walk with YHWH.

Because you eat this meat offered to idols, you dare place a plate of it on the table before one whos conscience is defiled by it.

Go back to page two and read my post;
what you do, at the least borders on witchcraft.

In Jesus NAME,
Please be more careful
T7
 

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Posted by TEXASGRANDMA (Member # 847) on :
 
no thank you. To imply that by wishing someone Merry Christmas is witchcraft is absurd.
betty
 

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Posted by wparr (Member # 891) on :
 

quote:

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Originally posted by TEXASGRANDMA:
no thank you. To imply that by wishing someone Merry Christmas is witchcraft is absurd.
betty

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TG
That's NOT what he is saying

What he was saying is that by praying that the "spirit of christmas" fill me, which is NOT one of God's Spirits (NOT in the Bible) BORDERS on witchcraft

I KNOW that is NOT your intention, that you were praying that out of ignorance.


The ONLY Spirit I want filling me is Elohim's Holy Spirit, referred to in The Bible by other names such as The Spirit of Wisdom, The Comforter, The Councilor; but not by the name of the spirit of christmas.
 

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Posted by TEXASGRANDMA (Member # 847) on :
 
God bless each of you. For now I say decide what you do want to do about Christmas on your own.
For me and my family we will be like Scoorge and keep Christmas in our hearts because JEsus is the reason for the season in our family. But I leave you to choose your own path.
Some times, a person can be so overcome with faitigue that then can no longer fight. I never intended to force anyone to celeberate Christmas but was defendeding those who do celeberate Christmas as a season to honor Jesus. But, I am too tired to fight anymore.
So keep Christmas or don't, it is up to you.
betty
 

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Posted by wparr (Member # 891) on :
 
Honestly my goal or purpose ISN'T to get anyone to stop celebrating christmas.

But to examine the traditions and doctrines followed and practiced (christmas or otherwise) in light of God's Word.

To look at WHY we do what we do, WHY we beleive what we believe - thru the lens of The Holy Scriture.

Not to take ANYTHING we or others say or teach as true, but to search for TRUTH.

ALL Christians should not only be willing to do this, but also STRIVE to do it, and start casting away the false, the meaningless, the useless, so there is more room for the TRUE things of God.


Is there anything wrong, evil, or devious in that?
 

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Posted by WildB (Member # 2917) on :
 

 

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Posted by hardcore (Member # 4492) on :
 

quote:

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Originally posted by wparr:
Honestly my goal or purpose ISN'T to get anyone to stop celebrating christmas.

But to examine the traditions and doctrines followed and practiced (christmas or otherwise) in light of God's Word.

To look at WHY we do what we do, WHY we beleive what we believe - thru the lens of The Holy Scriture.

Not to take ANYTHING we or others say or teach as true, but to search for TRUTH.

ALL Christians should not only be willing to do this, but also STRIVE to do it, and start casting away the false, the meaningless, the useless, so there is more room for the TRUE things of God.


Is there anything wrong, evil, or devious in that?

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quote:

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Originally posted by TEXASGRANDMA:
see, i am willing to allow people not to celeberate Jesus in peace but you are not willing to allow me to celeberate in peace. We had a wonderful women's Christmas party today at Church.
i may be guilty of celeberating Christmas but you are guilty of pride of not celeberating Christmas.
Merry Christmas to those who care and God bless us everyone.
betty

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quote:

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Originally posted by TEXASGRANDMA:
David,

I agree with you and HisGrace. Personally, I have signed about a dozen petitions this year to keep Jesus in Christmas. We are now in Houston with our daughter and we went to our old home Church and the Preacher preached yesterday that Christians must keep Jesus in Christmas. Which encouraed me to keep fighting to keep Jesus the reason for the season.
God bless you and HisGrace,
betty

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quote:

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Originally posted by Chaplain Bob:

quote:

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Originally posted by TEXASGRANDMA:
David,

I agree with you and HisGrace. Personally, I have signed about a dozen petitions this year to keep Jesus in Christmas. We are now in Houston with our daughter and we went to our old home Church and the Preacher preached yesterday that Christians must keep Jesus in Christmas. Which encouraed me to keep fighting to keep Jesus the reason for the season.
God bless you and HisGrace,
betty

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For us Believers Jesus is indeed "The reason for the season" Betty and we need to share that lovingly with others as we tell them what it is we celebrate and why. But we need to be careful not to look silly by claiming Christmas is a Christian holiday.

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quote:

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Originally posted by TEXASGRANDMA:
Prays for those who insult and trashes us.
betty

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Thank you TG. I pray for you too! But I don't think I have insulted or trashed you.
 

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Posted by WildB (Member # 2917) on :
 

quote:

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Originally posted by hardcore:

quote:

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Originally posted by TEXASGRANDMA:
Prays for those who insult and trashes us.
betty

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Thank you TG. I pray for you too! But I don't think I have insulted or trashed you.

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