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Author Topic: Church Pastor's Authority?
becauseHElives
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John Hale, Protestant or Roman Catholic Wh!ore ...if the teachings are a lie ... [BooHoo]

only The Truth will set you free...

I have found the perfect Church ... it is not found in any denomination.... it is found in the heart's of men and women that are continually seeking Truth , no matter what the person cost....

people looking for religion find just that "Religion"...pomp and ceremony

people that are truly saved were not looking for anything but Yahshua was looking for them,drew them by His Spirit, they responded and were born Again.....and they continue to respond day by day...never camping in any one spot spiritually....

--------------------
Strive to enter in at the strait gate:for many, I say unto you will seek to enter in, and shall not be able. ( Luke 13:24 )

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byfaith
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oops! edited, I posted my reply in the wrong thread........
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John Hale
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By the way, I am not advocating what has come to be called the Messianic movement or Messianic Judaism because it often times imitates too much the brand of Judaism that rejected its own Messiah. And also tries to use Torah as a means of salvation. It is a means to bring people to salvation but the Law of Moses can save no one. The Law of Christ is what saves us.

Galatians 3:24
24 Wherefore the law was our schoolmaster to bring us unto Christ, that we might be justified by faith.

1 Corinthians 9:19-21
19 Though I am free and belong to no man, I make myself a slave to everyone, to win as many as possible.
20 To the Jews I became like a Jew, to win the Jews. To those under the law I became like one under the law (though I myself am not under the law), so as to win those under the law.
21 To those not having the law I became like one not having the law (though I am not free from God’s law but am under Christ’s law), so as to win those not having the law.

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John Hale
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So... whose denomination among us is to be condemned as some here have condemned RCC for not teaching the truth that the Church is Spirit Israel?

RCC has many many things wrong. It was in fact a tool of the devil to get Christianity off track in a lot of ways... but the devil could not even then prevent some from being saved despite all of this infiltration and error.

I look at it like this. All the way back in Eden when God was saying "What have you done?" he was exasperated by the suffering of humanity to come and of his own sacrifice and of the way he would have to make concessions (to non-foundational theology mind you) but concessions just the same.

The monarchy (1 Samuel 8) for example. The temple (1 Kings 8 considering that 2 Samuel 7:12-13 is properly translated by Zechariah 6:13-13 and is prophetic of Matthew 16:18,1 Corinthians 3:16, and 1 Peter 2:3-9). The Roman Catholic take over of the faith is another example. The failed Protestant movement is another example of God's condescending to save people despite these... dare I carry the example to our daily lives?

The sins we commit daily are they not testimonials as to the extent God is willing to go to to try to save people?

Understand God is very active in the lives of believers and he takes our commitment to him very seriously. And when we sin we are misusing his property. We are no longer our own but were bought with a price. But our sins and the stupid things we allow to creep into our theology (so long as it does not compromise the basic truth about God and Christ) do not disqualify us.

Even those who "pray to Mary" who do so out of ignorance or religious fervor ignorance... God will work on and show them the logical conclusion of this false theology (because unbeknownst to most Catholics... the office of co-redmeptrix is a false deification of Mary).

How many of you say "knock on wood?" That is a Druid form of worship. Or "I swear by my John Deere (or whatever you say this about)." You swear by what you consider to be your god. Or when you blaspheme saying "Aw, JEEZ!" JEEZ is short for JEEZUS (Jesus).

There's a lot of ignorance in the Body Christian. A lot. Not what one would believe the case to be in a world of the printing press, high percentage of literacy, and having the scriptures translated so plenteously in all languages...

How ironic.

Try approaching your Marian relative with love, kindness, gently nudging them to the scriptures and when they are confident in them study how the Roman Catholics and the Protestants have been duped by human traditions...

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John Hale
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Galatians 6:13-16
13 For neither they themselves who are circumcised keep the law; but desire to have you circumcised, that they may glory in your flesh.
14 But God forbid that I should glory, save in the cross of our Lord Jesus Christ, by whom the world is crucified unto me, and I unto the world.
15 For in Christ Jesus neither circumcision availeth any thing, nor uncircumcision, but a new creature.
16 And as many as walk according to this rule, peace be on them, and mercy, and upon the Israel of God.

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John Hale
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Philippians 3:3
3 For we are the circumcision, which worship God in the spirit, and rejoice in Christ Jesus, and have no confidence in the flesh.

"The circumcision" is a way of referring to Judaism.

And literal circumcision (flesh) is often contrasted with spiritual circumcision (of the heart)... the flesh is of no value while the heart or spirit is the whole point.

Romans 2:28-29
28 For he is not a Jew, which is one outwardly; neither is that circumcision, which is outward in the flesh:
29 But he is a Jew, which is one inwardly; and circumcision is that of the heart, in the spirit, and not in the letter; whose praise is not of men, but of God.

This hails back to Deuteronomy 10:16, Deuteronomy 30:6, Jeremiah 4:4, and Jeremiah 9:26. Which is what Paul spoke of:

Romans 9:6
6 Not as though the word of God hath taken none effect. For they are not all Israel, which are of Israel:

That the New Covenant (Testament) Church is the Spiritual House of Israel is not replacement theology. It does not make believers physical Jews or of the physical house of Israel or entitled to a square inch in the Holy Land (as our citizenship is from above and our capital is the New Jerusalem).

Rather ours is the grafting in to New Covenant Judaism in the which physical Jews who rejected Christ can be grafted in again...

Romans 11:16-26
16 For if the firstfruit be holy, the lump is also holy: and if the root be holy, so are the branches.
17 And if some of the branches be broken off, and thou, being a wild olive tree, wert graffed in among them, and with them partakest of the root and fatness of the olive tree;
18 Boast not against the branches. But if thou boast, thou bearest not the root, but the root thee.
19 Thou wilt say then, The branches were broken off, that I might be graffed in.
20 Well; because of unbelief they were broken off, and thou standest by faith. Be not highminded, but fear:
21 For if God spared not the natural branches, take heed lest he also spare not thee.
22 Behold therefore the goodness and severity of God: on them which fell, severity; but toward thee, goodness, if thou continue in his goodness: otherwise thou also shalt be cut off.
23 And they also, if they abide not still in unbelief, shall be graffed in: for God is able to graff them in again.
24 For if thou wert cut out of the olive tree which is wild by nature, and wert graffed contrary to nature into a good olive tree: how much more shall these, which be the natural branches, be graffed into their own olive tree?
25 For I would not, brethren, that ye should be ignorant of this mystery, lest ye should be wise in your own conceits; that blindness in part is happened to Israel, until the fulness of the Gentiles be come in.
26 And so all Israel shall be saved: as it is written, There shall come out of Sion the Deliverer, and shall turn away ungodliness from Jacob:

The Olive Tree ('All Israel') did not change. Only the covenants changed.

Jeremiah 31:31-34
31 Behold, the days come, saith the LORD, that I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel, and with the house of Judah:
32 Not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day that I took them by the hand to bring them out of the land of Egypt; which my covenant they brake, although I was an husband unto them, saith the LORD:
33 But this shall be the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel; After those days, saith the LORD, I will put my law in their inward parts, and write it in their hearts; and will be their God, and they shall be my people.
34 And they shall teach no more every man his neighbour, and every man his brother, saying, Know the LORD: for they shall all know me, from the least of them unto the greatest of them, saith the LORD: for I will forgive their iniquity, and I will remember their sin no more.


And who is the New Covenant with?

The House of Judah and the House of Israel (twice named).

The inclusion of Gentiles was not an after thought nor a plan B if the natural born Jews did not receive the Messiah. Both were prophetically mentioned in the Old Testament (Jeremiah was even commissioned as the prophet to the nations / gentiles). Jeremiah 1:5 and Jeremiah 46:1.

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John Hale
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If the true God and the genuine Jesus are taught... then the people stand a chance of believing in the genuine Jesus and the true God.

If you are looking for a pristine Church, or a perfect denomination whose doctrines are 100% biblical... then you will be hard pressed to find it.

I have lots of grievous facts to point out about the Roman Catholic Church. Don't get me wrong. I am certainly not defending the RCC. But I am saying that God still saves people in the RCC despite the RCC the same way he does in the Protestant Church... which did not reform from the RCC nearly enough.

God did not wait until man got Church right before he started saving people. If he had... no one would be saved yet (in either New or Old Covenant). Matthew 13 and Matthew 23 read as report cards / state of the union addresses about Judaism.

Let me ask you about our version of the true faith / doctrine etc. How many of us realize or are willing to accept on the authority of scripture in the name of YHVH... the fact that we are Spirit Jews of the Spiritual House of Israel?

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John Hale
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This is what my Bible says...

John 3:16-18
16 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.
17 For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be saved.
18 He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.

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becauseHElives
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categorically on the authority of Yahweh's Word I can say no man or woman trusting in the lie of the Roman Catholic Wh!ore can be saved!

believing a lie will damn everyone who trust them!

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Strive to enter in at the strait gate:for many, I say unto you will seek to enter in, and shall not be able. ( Luke 13:24 )

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byfaith
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I have some Catholic family members, and I must say that I have wondered myself can we be sure they are not saved?

But then, I had a thought come to me, or maybe was sent to me, that IF they are indeed saved, why then would someone with the Holy Spirit in them continue to pray to Mary?

This is my big question regarding this.

any thoughts?

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John Hale
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And are you willing to state categorically that no Roman Catholic is saved?
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becauseHElives
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quote:
Don't buy into the lie that Mormons or Jehovah's Witnesses are Christian. They are not. Roman Catholics for all their flawed doctrines at least have the biblical doctrines of the Godhead correct.
Roman Catholicism is not nor ever has been Christian!


http://jesus-is-the-way.com/Babylon.html

CATHOLICISM, MOTHER OF HARLOTS

"Thou shalt not make unto thee any graven image, or any likeness of any thing that is in heaven above, or that is in the earth beneath, or that is in the water under the earth: Thou shalt not bow down thyself to them, nor serve them: for I the LORD thy God am a jealous God..." (King James Bible, Exodus 20:4,5).

Woe unto the Catholic Church—a prison-house of religion! And woe unto Protestants who are following the Mothers of Harlots! The Bible clearly warns against even BOWING to a graven image. It may come as a surprise to you to learn that the Catholic Church has deceitfully removed the 2nd of the Ten Commandments, which forbids BOWING to statues. God is a jealous God and will not share His rightful glory and praise with another...

"I am the LORD: that is my name: and my glory will I not give to another, neither my praise to graven images." —Isaiah 42:8

Does the Pope need glasses? Isaiah 42:8 can only be interpreted one way—God will not share glory and praise due to Him only. It really makes God angry when anyone hails (praises) Mary. Mary was a dirty, rotten sinner, just like you and me. Romans 3:23, "For all have sinned and come short of the glory of God."

Furthermore, I have news for you my friend, Mary did not remain a virgin. After Jesus was virgin born through a miraculous conception by the Holy Spirit of God, Mary and Joseph married and had many children (Matthew 12:46-47; 13:55-56). Mary and Joseph took Jesus to Jerusalem when He was 12 (Luke 2:42). Why would Joseph be present if he weren't Mary's husband? Mary did not remain a virgin!

As mentioned, Mary was a SINNER, just like you and me. Mary had to trust Jesus Christ to forgive her sins or else should couldn't have gone to Heaven. Read what Mary said about Jesus in Luke 1:47, "And my spirit hath rejoiced in God my Saviour." Mary is in Heaven today ONLY because she believed on Jesus Christ as her Savior to forgive her sins.

Oh, listen my friend, God wants you to be saved. The only way to Heaven is through Jesus. John 14:6 is very clear...

"Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me."

It is ONLY through the blood sacrifice of Jesus Christ that anyone can go to Heaven. Jesus paid the price for our sins with His own precious blood. Jesus has the nail-scared hands and feet, not El Papa over in Rome. The Pope is not the vicar of Heaven; but of Hell and the Devil himself for claiming so. I say of a truth, Catholicism is straight out of the pits of Hell. If you Hail Mary, then you are committing IDOLATRY. I say this kindly and with an honest heart.

If you're worshiping within the Catholic faith, then you might as well be over in India worshiping a potato!

Eating At The Devil's Table

God hates idolatry!

"Their land also is full of idols; they worship the work of their own hands, that which their own fingers have made." —Isaiah 2:8

"The lofty looks of man shall be humbled, and the haughtiness of men shall be bowed down, and the LORD alone shall be exalted in that day." —Isaiah 2:11

If you foolishly disobey the Bible by saying "Hail Mary," then you are committing idolatry. Mary is no more special than any other godly woman in the Bible. If you idolize Mary, then you are practicing false religion. If you Hail Mary, then you are worshiping and praising Satan indirectly.

The Catholic religion is so wicked that millions claim Mary is Jesus' co-redeemer. Look at the blasphemous scars in Mary's hands in the photo below...

 -

Roman Catholicism is the biggest false CULT in the world! There is NOTHING in the Bible about purgatory. There is NOTHING in the Bible about praying to dead saints.

"Confounded be all they that serve graven images, that boast themselves of idols" —Psalm 97:7

I Believe Most Catholics are Sincere

I believe most Catholic people are sincere. They go to Mass and hear the pretty music and church bells. They hear the Scripture quoted and are taught to partake of Christ's death in order to be a part of His resurrection. They are taught about the blood of Jesus and the mystery of the Gospel, and so forth. It all seems so religious.

However, they are not taught to be born-again as Jesus commanded in John 3:3, "Except a man be born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God." If you'll notice, every word the priest speaks at prayer time is recited from a piece of paper, and not from his heart as the Lord desires. Matthew 15:7,8, "Ye hypocrites, well did Esaias prophesy of you, saying, This people draweth nigh unto me with their mouth, and honoureth me with their lips; but their heart is far from me." Catholics do have religion, and grand it is; but they don't have the Spirit of God. Catholics have the spirit of ancient Babylon, the mystery Queen of Heaven—the Blessed Virgin; but they don't have the truth of the Gospel, which is without works of self-righteousness. Matthew 5:20, "For I say unto you, That except your righteousness shall exceed the righteousness of the scribes and Pharisees, ye shall in no case enter into the kingdom of heaven."

We must take to heart the warning in Proverb 14:12, "There is a way which seemeth right unto a man, but the end thereof are the ways of death." We must not go about to establish our own righteousness as Romans 10:3,4 warns; but rather, rest upon Jesus' name and His righteousness, which is through faith alone in His blood sacrifice.


LIST OF CATHOLIC HERESIES
And HUMAN TRADITIONS
ADOPTED and PERPETUATED by the ROMAN CATHOLIC CHURCH
IN THE COURSE OF 1600 YEARS

(Compiled by Rev. Stephen L. Testa)

"And ye shall know the truth, and the truth shall
make you free." —Jesus in John 8:32

Notice:--These dates are in many cases approximate. Many of these heresies had been current in the Church years before, but only when they were officially adopted by a Church council and proclaimed by the pope as dogma of faith, did they become binding on Catholics.

And doctrine to be true must conform to the Word of God. "To the law and to the testimony; if they speak not according to this word, it is because there is no light in them." (Isaiah 8:20)

At the Reformation in the 16th Century these heresies were repudiated as having no part in the Religion of Jesus as taught in the New Testament.
Heresy Date

OF ALL THE HUMAN TRADITIONS taught and practiced by the Roman Catholic Church, which are contrary to the Bible, the most ancient are the prayers for the dead and the sign of the Cross. Both began 300 years after Christ. 310
Wax Candles introduced in church. about 320
Veneration of angels and dead saints. 375
The Mass, as a daily celebration, adopted. 394
The worship of Mary, the mother of Jesus, and the use of the term, "Mother of God", as applied to her, originated in the Council of Ephesus 431
Priests began to dress differently from the laity 500
Extreme Unction 526
The doctrine of Purgatory was first established by Gregory the Great 593
The Latin language, as the language of prayer and worship in churches, was also imposed by Pope Gregory I. 600 years after Christ

The Word of God forbids praying and teaching in an unknown tongue. (1st Corinthians 14:9). 600
The Bible teaches that we pray to God alone. In the primitive church never were prayers directed to Mary, or to dead saints. This practice began in the Roman Church

(Matthew 11:28; Luke 1:46; Acts 10:25-26; 14:14-18) 600
The Papacy is of pagan origin. The title of pope or universal bishop, was first given to the bishop of Rome by the wicked emperor Phocas

This he did to spite Bishop Ciriacus of Constantinople, who had justly excommunicated him for his having caused the assassination of his predecessor emperor Mauritius. Gregory 1, then bishop of Rome, refused the title, but his successor, Boniface III, first assumed title "pope."

Jesus did not appoint Peter to the headship of the apostles and forbade any such notion. (Luke 22:24-26; Ephesians 1:22-23; Colossians 1:18; 1st Corinthians 3:11).

Note: Nor is there any mention in Scripture, nor in history, that Peter ever was in Rome, much less that he was pope there for 25 years; Clement, 3rd bishop of Rome, remarks that "there is no real 1st century evidence that Peter ever was in Rome." 610
The kissing of the Pope's feet

It had been a pagan custom to kiss the feet of emperors. The Word of God forbids such practices. (Read Acts 10:25-26; Revelation 19:10; 22:9). 709
The Temporal power of the Popes

When Pepin, the usurper of the throne of France, descended into Italy, called by Pope Stephen II, to war against the Italian Lombards, he defeated them and gave the city of Rome and surrounding territory to the pope. Jesus expressly forbade such a thing, and He himself refused worldly kingship. (Read Matthew 4:8-9; 20:25-26; John 18:38). 750
Worship of the cross, images and relics was authorized

This was by order of Dowager Empress Irene of Constantinople, who first caused to pluck the eyes of her own son, Constantine VI, and then called a church council at the request of Hadrian I, pope of Rome at that time.

Such practice is called simply IDOLATRY in the Bible, and is severely condemned. (Read Exodus 20:4; 3:17; Deuteronomy 27:15; Psalm 115). 788
Holy Water, mixed with a pinch of salt and blessed by the priest, was authorized 850
The veneration of St. Joseph began 890
The baptism of bells was instituted by Pope John XIV 965
Canonization of dead saints, first by Pope John XV

Every believer and follower of Christ is called saint in the Bible. (Read Romans 1:7; 1st Colossians 1:2). 995
Fasting on Fridays and during Lent were imposed

Imposed by popes said to be interested in the commerce of fish. (Bull, or permit to eat meat), some authorities say, began in the year 700. This is against the plain teaching of the Bible. (Read Matthew 15:10; 1st Corinthians 10:25; 1st Timothy 4:1-3). 998
The Mass was developed gradually as a sacrifice; attendance made obligatory in the 11th century.

The Bible teaches that the sacrifice of Christ was offered once and for all, and is not to be repeated, but only commemorated in the Lord's Supper. (Read Hebrews 7:27; 9:26-28; 10:10-14).
The celibacy of the priesthood was decreed by Pope Hildebrand, Boniface VII

Jesus imposed no such rule, nor did any of the apostles. On the contrary, St. Peter was a married man, and St. Paul says that bishops were to have wife and children. (Read 1st Timothy 3:2,5, and 12; Matthew 8:14-15). 1079
The Rosary, or prayer beads was introduced by Peter the Hermit, in the year 1090. Copied from Hindus and Mohammedans

The counting of prayers is a pagan practice and is expressly condemned by Christ. (Matthew 6:5-13). 1090
The Inquisition of heretics was instituted by the Council of Verona in the year 1184. Jesus never taught the use of force to spread His religion 1184
The sale of Indulgences, commonly regarded as a purchase of forgiveness and a permit to indulge in sin.

Christianity, as taught in the Bible, condemns such a traffic and it was the protest against this traffic that brought on the Protestant Reformation in the 16th century. 1190
The dogma of Transubstantiation was decreed by Pope Innocent III, in the year

By this doctrine the priest pretends to perform a daily miracle by changing a wafer into the body of Christ, and then he pretends to eat Him alive in the presence of his people during Mass. The Bible condemns such absurdities; for the Lord's Supper is simply a memorial of the sacrifice of Christ. The spiritual presence of Christ is implied in the Lord's Supper. (Read Luke 22:19-20; John 6:35; 1st Corinthians 11:26). 1215
Confession of sin to the priest at least once a year was instituted by Pope Innocent III., in the Lateran Council

The Bible commands us to confess our sins direct to God. (Read Psalm 51:1-10; Luke 7:48; 15:21; 1st John 1:8-9). 1215
The adoration of the wafer (Host), was decreed by Pope Honorius

So the Roman Church worships a God made by human hands. This is plain idolatry and absolutely contrary to the spirit of the Gospel. (Read John 4:24). 1220
The Bible forbidden to laymen and placed in the Index of forbidden books by the Council of Valencia

Jesus commanded that the Scriptures should be read by all. (John 5:39; 1st Timothy 3:15-17). 1229
The Scapular was invented by Simon Stock, and English monk

It is a piece of brown cloth, with the picture of the Virgin and supposed to contain supernatural virtue to protect from all dangers those who wear it on naked skin. This is fetishism. 1287
The Roman Church forbade the cup to the laity, by instituting the communion of one kind in the Council of Constance

The Bible commands us to celebrate the Lord's Supper with unleavened bread and the fruit of the vine. (Read Matthew 26:27; 1st Corinthians 11:26-29). 1414
The doctrine of Purgatory was proclaimed as a dogma of faith by Council of Florence

There is not one word in the Bible that would teach the purgatory of priests. The blood of Jesus Christ cleanseth us from all sins. (Read 1st John 1:7-9; 2:1-2; John 5:24; Romans 8:1). 1439
The doctrine of 7 Sacraments affirmed

The Bible says that Christ instituted only two ordinances, Baptism and the Lord's Supper. (Read Matthew 28:19-20; 26:26-28). 1439
The Ave Maria, part of the last

It was completed 50 years afterward and finally approved by Pope Sixtus V, at the end of the 16th century. 1508
The Council of Trent, held in the year 1545, declared that Tradition is of equal authority with the Bible

By tradition is meant human teachings. The Pharisees believed the same way, and Jesus bitterly condemned them, for by teaching human tradition, they nullified the commandments of God. (Read Mark 7:7-13; Colossians 2:8; Revelation 22:18). 1545
The apocryphal books were added to the Bible also by the Council of Trent

These books were not recognized as canonical by the Jewish Church. (See Revelation 22:8-9). 1546
The Creed of Pope Pius IV was imposed as the official creed 1560 years after Christ and the apostles

True Christians retain the Holy Scriptures as their creed. Hence their creed is 1500 years older than the creed of Roman Catholics. (Read Galatians 1:8). 1560
The Immaculate Conception of the Virgin Mary was proclaimed by Pope Pius IX

The Bible states that all men, with the sole exception of Christ, are sinners. Mary herself had need of a Savior. (Read Romans 3:23; 5:12; Psalm 51:5; Luke 1:30,46,47). 1834
In the year 1870 after Christ, Pope Pius IX proclaimed the dogma of Papal Infallibility

This is a blasphemy and the sign of the apostasy and of the antichrist predicted by St. Paul. (Read 2nd Thessalonians 2:2-12; Revelation 17:1-9; 13:5-8,18).

Many Bible students see the number of the beast (Rev. 13:18), 666 in the Roman letters of the Pope's title: "VICARIVS FILII DEI." -- V-5, I-1; C-100, I-1; V-S, I-1; L-50, I-1; I-1; D-500, I-l — Total, 666. 1870
Pope Plus X, in the year 1907, condemned together with "Modernism", all the discoveries of modern science which are not approved by the Church

Pius IX had done the same thing in the Syllabus of 1864. 1907
In the year 1930 Pius XI, condemned the Public Schools 1930
In the year 1931 the same pope Pius XI, reaffirmed the doctrine that Mary is "the Mother of God"

This doctrine was first invented by the Council of Ephesus in the year 431. This is a heresy contrary by Mary's own words. (Read Luke 1:46-49; John 2: l-5). 1931
In the year 1950 the last dogma was proclaimed by Pope Pius XII, the Assumption of the Virgin Mary 1950


CONCLUSION

What will be the next invention? The Roman Church says it never changes; yet, it has done nothing else but invent new doctrines which are contrary to the Bible, and has practiced rites and ceremonies taken bodily from paganism. Some scholar has found that 75% of the rites and ceremonies of the Roman Church are of pagan origin.

Note:-- Cardinal Newman, in his book, "The Development of the Christian Religion," admits that ... "Temples, incense, oil lamps, votive offerings, holy water, holidays and season of devotions, processions, blessing of fields, sacerdotal vestments, the tonsure (of priests and monks and nuns), images ... are all of pagan origin..." (Page 359).

HERESIES are those doctrines and practices which are contrary to the Bible. They are also called "human traditions" or "doctrines of men". Both Peter and Paul predicted and warned that in the later times "false teachers" would rise within the Church and bring in "damnable heresies" and "doctrines of devils". (Read 2nd Peter 2:1-3, and 1st Timothy 3:2-5). Jesus rebuked the Pharisees, for they transgressed the commandments of God by keeping their traditions. "in vain," He said, "they worship me by keeping for doctrines the commandments of men" (Matthew 15:3,9).

The real heretics therefore, are the Roman Catholics and the true orthodox are the Evangelical Christians.

BRETHREN! The Word of God commands us to get out of Babylon, saying: "Come out of her, my people, that ye be not partakers of her sins, and that ye receive not of her plagues." (Revelation 18:4). All true Christians will remain faithful to the religion of Christ as taught in the Bible, and heed the warning of the Apostle Paul, who said: "But though we, or an angel from heaven, preach any other Gospel unto you than that which we have preached unto you, let him be accursed." (Galatians 1:8).

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Strive to enter in at the strait gate:for many, I say unto you will seek to enter in, and shall not be able. ( Luke 13:24 )

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John Hale
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You are correct about God not speaking only to one (typically one who men hold up as leaders). God spoke through David, a mere shepherd (a low point on the social scale... one the Jews picked up from Egyptian society during their sojourn there).

Even when David was king God spoke through other prophets than him and to him. Interesting. It's almost as if God spoke through him before he became "somebody."

Hint hint... God will share his glory with no one.

Notice the profound humility of the same apostles after the cross who prior to it were boasting and arguing about who was better among them and vying for position...

One of the Pastors I admire most (Chuck Smith of Calvary Chapel Costa Mesa) saw one Saturday that a parking lot drain was plugged with debris. He was dressed up to perform a wedding an hour or two later. Without a word to anyone, he took off his suit coat, rolled up his sleeve, knelt down and ran his hand through the standing water and pulled the debris from the drain removing the unsightly puddle. He cleaned up and later presided over the wedding.

His premise is to win souls to Christ and to disciple them in preparation for fulfilling their calling / ministry, and sending them to do so.

Win disciple send. He is humble and his style is to simply teach the Bible simply.

This is echoed through the vast number of seed churches in the Calvary Chapel movement including the Harvest Crusades, Horizon Christian Fellowships and the Rock Church San Diego (whose pastor did the Miles Ahead Crusades of the 1990's.

The Vineyard was even part of it till it started lapsing into denominational traps and pitfalls like the sensations (barking in the spirit etc).

I am not a promoter of Calvary Chapel or Chuck Smith but I am simply pointing out the things these people are getting right (according to the scriptures).

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John Hale
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Um, Mormon Prophet?

Religions that do not take the Bible at its word (therefore God at his word) who do not teach nor hold to biblical revelation about the persons of the Godhead are NOT even in the right playing field and are not a legitimate team in the league.

Don't buy into the lie that Mormons or Jehovah's Witnesses are Christian. They are not. Roman Catholics for all their flawed doctrines at least have the biblical doctrines of the Godhead correct.

As for the rest, Protestant or Catholic, God makes many concessions to save people within despite the error... so long as we have the correct genuine Jesus and the biblical Godhead.

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Thunderz7
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I disagree with the "statement" of that "group/church".
I do not belileve YHWH only speaks to one person as leader of a group.
The dictatorship of a Roman Catholic Pope, Mormon Prophet or any such position, lording over and dominating a group is not Biblical (as I see it)

I do believe the Bible makes it plain that there is to be a headship though;
and in that light, the group mentioned is no less Biblical than the many denominations/groups we have with democratic/congregational government.

I see SO MANY "churches" in turmoil and confusion that are run by "Deacon Boards", and the deacons usually don't meet the Biblical qualifications.

Deacons were established to work under the elders, taking some of the load off the elders, who are suposed to be, the headship of any group;
delegated authority, begining with GOD, through the elders (not one man), then to the deacons stc...
Most of the democratic/congregational groups have no spiritual concept of what an elder really is.

(JMO)So while I don't agree with the dictator led group in queation in the original post of this thread,
they are no less Biblical than Deacon led
groups.

T7

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John Hale
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And we are to mature like this and divide / replicate like cells until the harvest is gathered in.
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John Hale
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This is not to say to all novices and lay persons to throw out the pastors of their churches and strike out on their own...

2 Peter 1:20-21
20 Knowing this first, that no prophecy of the scripture is of any private interpretation.
21 For the prophecy came not in old time by the will of man: but holy men of God spake as they were moved by the Holy Ghost.

And you must learn how to listen to the Holy Spirit to discern his voice out from all others (including our own will...) which is not as easy as you think.

1 Thessalonians 5:21
21 Prove all things; hold fast that which is good.

1 John 4:
11 Beloved, believe not every spirit, but try the spirits whether they are of God: because many false prophets are gone out into the world.

Test even what you think is the Holy Spirit.

How?

Acts 17:11
11 These were more noble than those in Thessalonica, in that they received the word with all readiness of mind, and searched the scriptures daily, whether those things were so.

Think how hard this was before the scriptures were canonized.

But aren't there divisions about what certain passages mean?

The Lord said he would not leave us as orphans. The Spirit himself is our Counselor other than Christ himself.

John 14:15-18
15 If ye love me, keep my commandments.
16 And I will pray the Father, and he shall give you another Comforter, that he may abide with you for ever;
17 Even the Spirit of truth; whom the world cannot receive, because it seeth him not, neither knoweth him: but ye know him; for he dwelleth with you, and shall be in you.
18 I will not leave you comfortless: I will come to you.

John 16:13
13 Howbeit when he, the Spirit of truth, is come, he will guide you into all truth: for he shall not speak of himself; but whatsoever he shall hear, that shall he speak: and he will shew you things to come.

So there's a kind of cyclical interaction between Spirit and scripture and student of the Holy Spirit.

And by the scriptures we have the tools to live life, unite as one in the Church, win more souls into the kingdom, and to serve God in all things:


2 Timothy 3:16-17
16 All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:
17 That the man of God may be perfect, thoroughly furnished unto all good works.

2 Timothy 2:15
15 Study to shew thyself approved unto God, a workman that needeth not to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth.

This is incumbent upon all believers.

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John Hale
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While we are not given some innate sense of spiritual discernment and knowledge once we become believer in Jesus Christ (we are novices and in need of guidance, discipleship, education)...

We are called to be priests of God and not perpetually ignorant babies in the faith able to eat only baby food...

Hebrews 5:12
12 In fact, though by this time you ought to be teachers, you need someone to teach you the elementary truths of God’s word all over again. You need milk, not solid food!


Think of it... who pastors the pastors? Does the procession of pastors and bishops and cardinals and popes determine what is to be preached from a given pulpit? Is this the source of their inspiration and biblical teaching? Or is it rather learning the Bible and to discern the Holy Spirit to the point they no longer need a pastor over them?

I do not mean to even imply removing the accountability of the pastor... or anyone... quite the opposite; for we are all accountable to scripture even in our ignorance of it...

But the spiritual government of man over man to get to God is usurping the intended direct link God under the New Covenant has with his people (individually). It's a form of "you have to come through me to get to God" structure created as far back as the 4th Century CE which was a hijacking of the faith.

This has been a satanic interference as effective as his interference with the Jewish Sanhedrin. He could not stop the outcomes in either case but from his perspective these infiltrations minimized the damage to his ungodly kingdom as much as possible.

The Church was intended to multiply exponentially.

Like a virus or wild fire (from the point of view of the opposition). And instead of being salt to the world... we have been herded into salt shaker containers (buildings and even denominations we call "the Church")...

Salt that lost it's savor is good only to be thrown onto the pathways and be trampled under the feet of men. A common practice in Jesus' day was to take salt that lost its saltiness (salt was not as pure in those days) and throw it on the beaten road paths to keep the weeds and mud to a minimum. And people walked or rode over the salted paths.

Perfect analogy for the condition of the Church today. Man dictates what can be said by the Church in public... lest that group lose its tax free status... for example.

Then there's the infighting over denominational divisions (mostly human interpolations or traditional extras added to the word of God and thus indefensible).

So the devil through his minions (wittingly or not) plucks the right trigger arguments to strike of the band of fractured unity in the Body Christian.

Once again, it is a form of satanic damage control minimizing the advancement of the Church since he cannot halt it altogether.

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John Hale
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Um, it does not surprise me that the infirmity that infects most churches eventually surfaces from time to time like in this case. And it will get worse when first through third century persecution returns to the church.

The traditions of man infest the Body Christian. When the traditions are put on par with the actual truth, it diminishes the truth especially in apologetics (the defense of the faith). Especially denominational party lines and platforms are like balloons for them to stick pins in.

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byfaith
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SO sad.

It is a IFB church. (Independent Fundamental Baptist Church)

Is this common for IFB's???

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WildB
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CULT.

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That is all.....

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byfaith
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I thought so, but wondered if I just didn't interpret it correctly.

It just bothered me terribly when I read this.

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Betty Louise
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2Pe 1:20 Knowing this first, that no prophecy of the scripture is of any private interpretation.


Looks like the Pastor is off on his sign.
betty

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Luk 21:28 And when these things begin to come to pass, then look up, and lift up your heads; for your redemption draweth nigh.

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byfaith
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What do you think of this statement?

it is in the statement of a church on their site.

The Scriptures shall be interpreted according to their normal grammatical-historical meaning, and all issues of interpretation and meaning shall be determined by the pastor.

Determined by the Pastor? does this indicate that he will tell the people what the Holy Spirit is saying FOR them?

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