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Author
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Topic: Loving Jesus and still going to hell
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Betty Louise
Advanced Member
Member # 7175
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posted
Carol,
You and I usually agree, but I disagree with you here. I am not saying we are saved by works. I am talking about people who love God, but on their terms. My dad's cousin was a board member at Church. He loved God and thought he was a Christian. He was also living in a gay relationship. His Church did not have a problem with the gay lifestyle. He was convinced that God did not, either.
There are people who love Jesus, but they do not love the Jesus of the Bible, they have formed their own religion because they disagree with things in the Bible.
God is not a buffet table, where we can pick and choose what we believe and leave off our plate things we have a problem with.
betty
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Luk 21:28 And when these things begin to come to pass, then look up, and lift up your heads; for your redemption draweth nigh.
Posts: 5051 | From: Houston, Texas | Registered: May 2008
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Keeper
Advanced Member
Member # 7675
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posted
Carol, why did you add that we cannot be saved by works ? I am pretty sure that we all know that except for JumpinJack. (?)
Posts: 481 | Registered: Apr 2009
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KnowHim
Admin
Member # 1
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posted
I like this quote from the book The Gospel According to Jesus, “A real disciple, on the other hand, may fail Christ but will never turn against him. A true Christian might temporarily fear to stand up for the Lord but would never willingly sell him out. Inevitably, true disciple will falter, but when they fall into sin, they will seek cleansing. They will not wallow in the mire ( 2 Peter 2:22 ). Their faith is neither fragile nor temporary; it is a dynamic and ever-growing commitment to the Savior.”
I think those that are looking for an easy push button salvation don't really know Jesus and really don't want to and they not saved. I believe telling people that are saved when they are not is the worse thing someone can do. This is sending many to hell because they never come to know the Savior Jesus Christ.
What do you do with the below?
Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven. Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works? And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity - Matthew 7:21-23
Are you just going to delete this from your bible and make your own?
![[Confused]](confused.gif) .
Posts: 3276 | From: Charlestown, IN | Registered: Jun 2002
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KnowHim
Admin
Member # 1
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posted
>>>>It looks like I'll be standing alone on this one. I say NO. We are not saved by works.
No one is saying we are saved by works. That is just what you added.
Yes Jesus did it all and there is nothing we can do to earn our salvation.
But that does not mean we ignore the rest of the bible in hopes for a easy believeizm push button salvation. If someone is saved they will act like it.
1 John 2:3-6 (NIV)
We know that we have come to know him if we obey his commands. The man who says, “I know him,” but does not do what he commands is a liar, and the truth is not in him. But if anyone obeys his word, God’s love is truly made complete in him. This is how we know we are in him: Whoever claims to live in him must walk as Jesus did.
Repent ye therefore, and be converted, that your sins may be blotted out, when the times of refreshing shall come from the presence of the Lord... - Acts 3:19
Because strait is the gate, and narrow is the way, which leadeth unto life, and few there be that find it. - Matthew 7:14
Trust in the LORD with all thine heart; and lean not unto thine own understanding. Proverbs 3:5
And ye shall seek me, and find me, when ye shall search for me with all your heart. - Jeremiah 29:13 (KJV)
Know ye not, that to whom ye yield yourselves servants to obey, his servants ye are to whom ye obey; whether of sin unto death, or of obedience unto righteousness. Romans 6:16
But without faith it is impossible to please Him, for he who comes to God must believe that He is, and that He is a rewarder of those who diligently seek Him. ~ Hebrews 11:6 (NKJV)
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Posts: 3276 | From: Charlestown, IN | Registered: Jun 2002
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Carol Swenson
Admin
Member # 6929
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posted
quote:
Is it possible to love Jesus and still go to hell?
I believe the answer is yes.
It looks like I'll be standing alone on this one. I say NO. We are not saved by works.
1.) Salvation by Grace
* "For it is by grace you have been saved, through faith -- and this not from yourselves, it is the gift of God -- not by works, so that no one can boast," (Eph. 2:8-9, NIV).
2.) "You who are trying to be justified by law have been alienated from Christ; you have fallen away from grace" (Gal. 5:4).
* This verse and its context plainly teach that if you believe that you are saved by faith and works then you are not saved at all. This is a common error in the cults. Because they have a false Jesus, they have a false doctrine of salvation. (Read Rom. 3-5 and Gal. 3-5).
* You cannot add to the work of God. Gal. 2:21 says, "I do not set aside the grace of God, for if righteousness could be gained through the law, Christ died for nothing!" (NIV)
3.) "Therefore no one will be declared righteous in his sight by observing the law; rather, through the law we become conscious of sin," (Rom. 3:20).
* "However, to the man who does not work but trusts God who justifies the wicked, his faith is credited as righteousness," (Rom. 4:5).
* "Is the law, therefore, opposed to the promises of God? Absolutely not! For if a law had been given that could impart life, then righteousness would certainly have come by the law," (Gal. 3:21).
We are not saved by what we do, but by what our Lord Jesus Christ did, and does, and will do.
Repentance and obedience are extremely important for sanctification and blessings, but they do not save us. Nothing we can do will save us except to have faith. Concerning salvation, the only repentance required is to repent from unbelief and put our faith in Christ.
A careless Christian will lose the rich blessings of a close fellowship with our Lord, and he will suffer many chastisements during his sanctification. He will not enjoy or share very much of the Fruit of the Spirit. He will not be rewarded much at the Bema.
But he will not lose his salvation.
If it is a question about loving the real Jesus, and knowing Him not just knowing about Him, I have to say (1 Corinthians 13:12)
Now we see things imperfectly as in a cloudy mirror, but then we will see everything with perfect clarity. All that I know now is partial and incomplete, but then I will know everything completely, just as God now knows me completely.
I believe someday every single one of us will say as Job did: (Job 42:5)
I had only heard about you before, but now I have seen you with my own eyes.
Posts: 6787 | From: Colorado | Registered: Dec 2007
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Keeper
Advanced Member
Member # 7675
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posted
ONE IN CHRIST...2 Chronicles 7:14....and will forgive their sin....
I extracted that small section to make a point.
Jesus does not tolerate our sinful ways but when he adopts us into the family...and will forgive their sin....not eventually but then and there, as if for the first time in your life you are sinless. Soon thereafter we are back at it but the past is forgiven. Now, each time a new Christian sins they ask forgiveness to mend the falling away.
Remember the 7 day period during the millennium when you were not allowed to return to Christs presence if you dealt with a lost person? That was because of sin ?
Posts: 481 | Registered: Apr 2009
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oneinchrist
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Member # 6532
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posted
Hi Betty,
The conviction that you have concerning this matter reminds me of the conviction that I have that we cannot separate love for Jesus from love for His word. We need to have an ear that listens to what the One that we love has to say to us concerning faith, salvation, discipleship, warnings, etc.
Though "repentance" is defined(greek definition) as a change of mind about God and sin; a change of purpose, I have noticed that most other bible dictionaries that I have come across consistently show repentance to be a "turning away from sin, and a turning to God". It is my belief that a persons theological beliefs can have a bearing on how they view the subject of repentance.
All in all, the way that I look at it is this........... if someone purposely refuses to turn from sin, wickedness, rebellion, immoral lifestyles(like "despisers" of the word) they will not be forgiven. If the sacrifice of God does not give man enough reason to turn from his wicked ways, nothing will suffice. Please note that I do not believe that Gods plea for man to turn from his wicked ways implies a "complete clean-up of ourselves", but I do believe that it does imply a willfull rejection of those things that we know are clearly against Gods will.
2 Chronicles 7:14
"if My people who are called by My name will humble themselves, and pray and seek my face, AND TURN FROM THEIR WICKED WAYS, then I will hear from heaven, and will forgive their sin and heal their land.
*********TIMELESS TRUTH********
With love in Christ, Daniel
Posts: 1389 | From: Wind Lake, WI | Registered: May 2007
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Copper25
Advanced Member
Member # 7464
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posted
quote:
I am talking about people who genuinely believe they love God. I never said they love God in a Biblical way. Look at all the people who say they are Christians but on questioning they do not believe the truth of the Gospel
I have heard about people who believe they are saved but they admit that they have taken bits and piece of many religions and formed their own religion, and yet they will tell you they love God.
O I C, the fake love concept. oops, o well, I gave my 2 cents on the matter as you can see. ![[Big Grin]](biggrin.gif)
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Isaiah 40:6) The voice said, Cry. And he said, What shall I cry? All flesh is grass, and all the goodliness thereof is as the flower of the field
Posts: 262 | From: Rochester, NY | Registered: Nov 2008
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Betty Louise
Advanced Member
Member # 7175
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posted
I am talking about people who genuinely believe they love God. I never said they love God in a Biblical way. Look at all the people who say they are Christians but on questioning they do not believe the truth of the Gospel
I have heard about people who believe they are saved but they admit that they have taken bits and piece of many religions and formed their own religion, and yet they will tell you they love God.
betty
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Luk 21:28 And when these things begin to come to pass, then look up, and lift up your heads; for your redemption draweth nigh.
Posts: 5051 | From: Houston, Texas | Registered: May 2008
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Copper25
Advanced Member
Member # 7464
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posted
quote:
Is it possible to love Jesus and still go to hell?
I believe the answer is yes.
Not biblical, by the way, you used absolutly no scripture to support this idea betty!
I say this
John 14:15)If ye love me, keep my commandments.
Biblically speaking, can someone love the Lord, and not keep His commandments? No because as it is written, (John 10:35) "the scripture cannot be broken."
Again,
1 John 2
3) And hereby we do know that we know him, if we keep his commandments.
4) He that saith, I know him, and keepeth not his commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him.
Biblically speaking, a child of disobedience does not love God, but is unconverted and hates the things of God. As it is written (1 Corinthians 2:14) "But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him". Frankly, the natural man run's from God and His(God's) truth because God is light and righteous, and what does man like in his natural unconverted state? Darkness and wickedness
Genesis 6:5) And God saw that the wickedness of man was great in the earth, and that every imagination of the thoughts of his heart was only evil continually.
Again
Jeremiah 17:9) The heart is deceitful above all things, and desperately wicked: who can know it?
A man, a natural unconverted man will run to wickedness ALL THE DAY LONG unless God does a working of regeneration in his heart. Until this happens to a person, BY NATURE, they are hators of God. Now no one who claims to be a Christian will say, I hate God, but their life can easily say that for them.
Titus 3:16 can be applied to the hypocrite claiming Christian. As it is written, "They profess that they know God; but in works they deny him, being abominable, and disobedient, and unto every good work reprobate."
Point being, I don't care how much someone confesses they love the Lord, if they go to hell, then obviously, THEY DIDN'T.
P.S. If the mind of the natural man is corrupt, does He love Jesus in any sense? No. Frankly, genuine love for Christ manifest in action. The fake words only type, is completely vain, and biblically speaking is NOT LOVING Christ.
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Isaiah 40:6) The voice said, Cry. And he said, What shall I cry? All flesh is grass, and all the goodliness thereof is as the flower of the field
Posts: 262 | From: Rochester, NY | Registered: Nov 2008
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Keeper
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Member # 7675
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posted
Recently, I have had a man tell me that he was a Christian. It didn't seem to me that he was. What was I to do about it ? I told him that I had noticed that some things he told me were not according to the word of God. I suggested that he check the word and find out if he had a problem.
I have sat listening to pastors who I knew had problems with sin. What do I do about that ? I can't go tell him he is a sinner and not a Christian. I can and did mention that I had notice his problems and heard about it also.
It seems to me that a person can become a christian and then for a number of reasons can stray off. Like Jesus said, that straying off can be a good lesson to them who do stray. They come to the Lord asking forgiveness and in turn gain strength in Him.
On the other hand, if a person tells me that they do not believe in Jesus, the virgin birth, heaven or hell, satan, grace, forgiveness of sin, stuff like that. I just inform them that they were misinformed and why.
So, I agree with the rest of you. Yes, a person can love Jesus and still go to hell. Toast !
Jesus knows what is going on between Him and You.
You know what is going on between you and Him.
Posts: 481 | Registered: Apr 2009
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KnowHim
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Member # 1
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posted
>>>>> Is it possible to love Jesus and still go to hell?
YES, YES, YES I agree and it is sad that there are many people in this state. Judas was one of them.
![[Frown]](frown.gif)
The Characteristics of a False Disciple
Judas was a false disciple. I can't imagine anything more wicked than that. What are the marks of a false disciple, as exemplified by Judas?
1. Greed
Judas loved money. He lived for today--he wanted glory and success. He had a greater regard for things than he did for God. He had a greater desire for self than He did for Christ. Typically, false disciples will follow Jesus to get what they want. But when Jesus doesn't deliver and puts demands on them that they didn't expect, they leave. And they may try to get all they can before they leave. They're like the seed that springs up quickly, but then withers and dies when the sun comes out (Matt. 13:6). Or they are like the seed that falls among the thorns and is choked out (Matt. 13:7)--they follow Christ for a while, but eventually sell Him out for their selfish desires, such as money, prestige, and power. False disciples love darkness. They love what's in the world and they'll sell the Savior for it, like Esau sold his birthright for a pot of stew (Gen. 25:33-34).
2. Deceit
False disciples masquerade their true character in an attempt to delude others. They pretend to love the Lord. Judas was obviously successful because none of the disciples suspected him. When Jesus revealed that one of them would betray Him, each one asked, "Is it I?" (Matt. 26:22). False disciples are so deceitful that our Lord said believers can't determine for sure who's real and who isn't (Matt. 13:29).
3. Hypocrisy
Judas kissed Christ to kill Him. He paid homage on the outside, but he hated on the inside.
Judas is no solitary monster--people like him exist in every age, even today. They pretend to love Christ, but in reality are greedy, deceitful, and hypocritical. They follow Christ for what they might receive--a salved conscience, peace of mind, reputation, self- satisfaction, or improved profits in business. If the truth were known, they would sell Christ if they could see greater gain somewhere else.
by John MacArthur
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Posts: 3276 | From: Charlestown, IN | Registered: Jun 2002
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Betty Louise
Advanced Member
Member # 7175
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posted
God bless you both. It breaks my heart when someone tells me that their God would never send anyone to hell, is okay with homosexual lifestyles,and whatever sinful lifestyle they live. I even had a relative that had a drinking problem, tell me, that God met him, on his terms, sitting out on the boat on Sunday morning drinking a couple of six packs.
Too many people do not want to serve the God of the Bible so they recreate God in their own image of what God should be. Sadly, they feel secure that all is right with their souls and they are going to Heaven. If you try to share the truth of the Gospel, they do not want to hear it.
betty
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Luk 21:28 And when these things begin to come to pass, then look up, and lift up your heads; for your redemption draweth nigh.
Posts: 5051 | From: Houston, Texas | Registered: May 2008
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becauseHElives
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Member # 87
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posted
Amen Betty,,,very thought provoking question......
many in our time preach a very different Salvation than scripture teach....
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Strive to enter in at the strait gate:for many, I say unto you will seek to enter in, and shall not be able. ( Luke 13:24 )
Posts: 4578 | From: Southeast Texas | Registered: Jun 2002
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Caretaker
Advanced Member
Member # 36
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posted
Amen Betty!!!!!!!
They cannot accept the Word of God and they create a false Christ, and place their faith and trust, and sadly their eternal soul in their own false creation.
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A Servant of Christ,
Drew
1 Tim. 3:
16: And without controversy great is the mystery of godliness: God was manifest in the flesh..
Posts: 3978 | From: Council Grove, KS USA | Registered: Jun 2002
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Betty Louise
Advanced Member
Member # 7175
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posted
Is it possible to love Jesus and still go to hell?
I believe the answer is yes. There are people who genuinely love Jesus, but they do not want to give themselves to Jesus. They love Jesus on their terms and not on Jesus' terms. They love God but they want God to deal with them on their terms. They give God a portion of their time but the rest of themselves they hold back.
Then there are those who are not happy with the God of the Bible, so they invent a God who is conformed to their image. If they have a problem with what the Bible says about homosexuals, then they create a God that has no problem with gays. If they have a problem with being faithful to their mates, then they create a God who is more understanding of infidelity. What ever issue they have with the God of the Bible,they create a God who will conform himself to their desires.
A God you create is not the God of the Bible. You can love the Jesus you form in your mind and still go to hell.
Salvation is seeking God's forgiveness and turning from your sins. It is not creating a God who will adapt to your sins.
Today is the day of salvation. Repent of your sins and serve the God of the Bible, the only true God.
betty
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Luk 21:28 And when these things begin to come to pass, then look up, and lift up your heads; for your redemption draweth nigh.
Posts: 5051 | From: Houston, Texas | Registered: May 2008
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