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Topic: Jesus is the Sabbath
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Isaiah
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posted
Is not refraining from murder keeping the law? Because Christ kept it can we now murder? NO!
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Michael Harrison
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Jesus is the law whom you obey. And He has made is easy, and fool proof. You cannot obey the law, else Jesus would not have had to die.
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Isaiah
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This does not do away with OUR RESPONSIBILITY TO OBEY THE LAW -THAT IS NOT BIBLICAL AT ALL
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Michael Harrison
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Keeping the Sabbath is the 'Law'. Jesus is the fulfillment of the law.
Jesus not only fulfilled, He fulfills the law. YOu cannot fulfill the law, else you would not need Christ.
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Isaiah
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What I am saying is that not keeping the sabbath -not refraining from certain things on specifically the seventh day every week as per the commandment which has not passed from the law -IS TRANSGRESSION -not only that, but it robs people of understanding!
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Michael Harrison
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I'm back for a minute.
Throw Romans out (For the sake of this discussion). People use that to justify sinning. That is not what Paul is saying.
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Michael Harrison
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YOu are not supposed to offend in any point. Look squarely at this. If you are guilty of one, then you are guilty of all. Only Jesus can deliver you from being guilty, which means, since I have to spell it out, that only He can deliver you from 'commiting' said transgression. But most justify themselves, so that they can sin. It is terrifying.
I gotta cook. Be bach!
I'll be glad to take you through James so that you can see what you are overlooking.
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Isaiah
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Jam 2:10 For whosoever shall keep the whole law, and yet offend in one point, he is guilty of all.
Jam 2:11 For he that said, Do not commit adultery, said also, Do not kill. Now if thou commit no adultery, yet if thou kill, thou art become a transgressor of the law.
Jam 2:12 So speak ye, and so do, as they that shall be judged by the law of liberty.
Rom 7:10 And the commandment, which was ordained to life, I found to be unto death.
Rom 7:11 For sin, taking occasion by the commandment, deceived me, and by it slew me.
Rom 7:12 Wherefore the law is holy, and the commandment holy, and just, and good.
Rom 7:13 Was then that which is good made death unto me? God forbid. But sin, that it might appear sin, working death in me by that which is good; that sin by the commandment might become exceeding sinful.
Rom 7:14 For we know that the law is spiritual: but I am carnal, sold under sin.
Rom 7:15 For that which I do I allow not: for what I would, that do I not; but what I hate, that do I.
Rom 7:16 If then I do that which I would not, I consent unto the law that it is good.
Rom 7:17 Now then it is no more I that do it, but sin that dwelleth in me.
Rom 7:18 For I know that in me (that is, in my flesh,) dwelleth no good thing: for to will is present with me; but how to perform that which is good I find not.
Rom 7:19 For the good that I would I do not: but the evil which I would not, that I do.
Rom 7:20 Now if I do that I would not, it is no more I that do it, but sin that dwelleth in me.
Rom 7:21 I find then a law, that, when I would do good, evil is present with me.
Rom 7:22 For I delight in the law of God after the inward man:
Rom 7:23 But I see another law in my members, warring against the law of my mind, and bringing me into captivity to the law of sin which is in my members.
Rom 7:24 O wretched man that I am! who shall deliver me from the body of this death?
Rom 7:25 I thank God through Jesus Christ our Lord. So then with the mind I myself serve the law of God; but with the flesh the law of sin.
Yes -we can be delivered from sin -we can not deliver ourselves -but we certainly must try!
The apostle beat his body (figuratively, true -but certainly suggesting no little effort) into submission to the law!!!!!!!!!!!!
1Co 9:21 to the [ones] without law as without law (not being without law to God, _but_ subject to law to Christ), so that I should win the [ones] without law.
1Co 9:22 I became to the weak as weak, so that I should win the weak; I have become all [things] to all [people], so that I should by all means [or, certainly] save some.
1Co 9:23 Now this I do because of the Gospel, so that I shall become a fellow-partaker of it.
1Co 9:24 You* know that the ones running in a stadium, all indeed run, but one receives the prize, do you* not? In the same way, be running, so that you* shall obtain [or, win].
1Co 9:25 But everyone competing exercises self-control in all [things]. Now these indeed [compete] so that they should receive a corruptible victor's wreath, but we an incorruptible [one]!
1Co 9:26 So _I_ run in this manner, not as without a goal. In this manner I fight, not as repeatedly beating air.
1Co 9:27 _But_ I beat my body black and blue [fig., keep my body under control] and bring [it] into slavery [fig., make it ready to serve], lest, having preached to others, I myself become disqualified.
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Michael Harrison
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You guys need to go back and read your bible before i can discuss it with you.
Strive to enter the straight gate, doesn't say strive to keep the law. Read!
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Isaiah
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DIDN'T SAY TRY????????????????? He used the word STRIVE -which is about as close to TRY as one can get!
Luk 13:24 Strive to enter in at the strait gate: for many, I say unto you, will seek to enter in, and shall not be able.
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Isaiah
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OK -what is sin? biblical definition...
1Jo 3:4 Whosoever committeth sin transgresseth also the law: for sin is the transgression of the law.
Yes?
What is the law -are you saying the law is not the ten commandments -including the sabbath?
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Michael Harrison
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Believing is receiving, else you are bankrupt of Him. When He says to 'keep' the commandments, you do so by Him. No other way. Yet in the stunted sinfulness of our carnal mind, we think that we are supposed to 'try'. He didn't say try.
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Michael Harrison
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Jesus is your provision. If you do what He is not doing, you transgress Him. If you do not do what He is doing, the same. But He enables the believer to accomplish His will, which means not sinning, as well as to minister Him.
Php 2:13 For it is God which worketh in you both to will and to do of his good pleasure.
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Isaiah
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Are you saying all you have to do is believe? Are you saying you do not have to keep the ten commandments of God? If so -why did Christ say to keep the commandments?
I am not against God -or you -I just can't undertstand the etherealness of which you speak...
Jam 2:17 Even so faith, if it hath not works, is dead, being alone.
Jam 2:18 Yea, a man may say, Thou hast faith, and I have works: show me thy faith without thy works, and I will show thee my faith by my works.
Jam 2:19 Thou believest that there is one God; thou doest well: the devils also believe, and tremble.
Jam 2:20 But wilt thou know, O vain man, that faith without works is dead?
Jam 2:21 Was not Abraham our father justified by works, when he had offered Isaac his son upon the altar?
Jam 2:22 Seest thou how faith wrought with his works, and by works was faith made perfect?
Jam 2:23 And the Scripture was fulfilled which saith, Abraham believed God, and it was imputed unto him for righteousness: and he was called the Friend of God.
Jam 2:24 Ye see then how that by works a man is justified, and not by faith only.
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Michael Harrison
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Ye do assemble yourselves against the Lord - not agains me! Nothing I have said is made up. Neither can you read. You cannot 'do' what you assert yourself to be able. Neither because I say that believing is the requirement, do I sin by not doing!
You abide in transgression - by unbelief, willfully.
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Michael Harrison
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Huh? Hypervloating! (Now that word is made up)
Because the word is not mine, nor is it of me, it will stand, for eternity. It is He.
Jesus is the Sabbath Rest and if you enter not in you abide in sin.
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Isaiah
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(MH)So -because you believe Jesus kept the law, you do not have to do anything? You just can't make stuff up -that is not what the bible says
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Keith
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“As the Sabbath commemorates God’s creation rest, the first day speaks of Christ’s resurrection. The seventh day marks God’s creative rest. On the first day Christ was unceasingly active. The seventh day commemorates a finished creation, the first day a finished redemption.”
Sounds like a nice theory you have made up. It is however, not to be found anywhere in the scriptures. Your comments regarding the first day are wholly extra biblical. Thus your entire theory is wholly extra biblical. You are on the wide path back to Rome.
“Jesus is the Sabbath rest. This is the seventh day. Jesus is the rest of God. You are no longer under law, but under His provision, which He paid dearly to bring to you, that you may walk in it.”
The bible says nowhere, that Jesus is the Sabbath rest, or that this is the seventh day. These statements are wholly extra biblical. You may search the scriptures and find many different titles for Christ, but you will never see Him called the Sabbath rest. The Sabbath has always been a sign of entering into God’s rest. It was instituted by Christ Himself at creation, which is why Christ is Lord of the Sabbath, not the Sabbath.
You correctly state that Jesus is the rest of God, this is scriptural.
Matt 11:28 Come unto me, all ye that labour and are heavy laden, and I will give you rest.
29 Take my yoke upon you, and learn of me; for I am meek and lowly in heart: and ye shall find rest unto your souls. 30 For my yoke is easy, and my burden is light.
The Sabbath day itself is not that rest, it is a specific time allotted by Christ Himself to enter into that rest in a way that is not possible on other days. Number one, because the day was blessed and sanctified by God, who alone can bless and sanctify anything. Number two, because,having set the day aside for nothing other than quality time with God, there are not the distractions of every day life to interfere. The day is observed by faith alone. There is nothing apart from the word of God alone that makes the day appear different from any other in any way. Therefore, it is observed by faith in the word of God alone, rather than because the one who observes it is under the law, as you have suggested.
What is entering into God’s rest, if it is not having faith in His word, and acting accordingly? Being under the law, involves facing the penalty of the law. Those only who have broken the law, face the penalty of the law. Christ did not do away with the law, so that we wouldn’t have to face the penalty, no sir, He paid the penalty so that we would no longer be under the law. It is not the law that needs to change, this is not the gospel. It is us that needs to change, we need to be brought back into conformity with the law, not the other way around. This is what Christ came to accomplish.
Rom 8:1 There is therefore now no condemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit. 2 For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus hath made me free from the law of sin and death. 3 For what the law could not do, in that it was weak through the flesh, God sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh, and for sin, condemned sin in the flesh: 4 That the righteousness of the law might be fulfilled in us, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit. 5 For they that are after the flesh do mind the things of the flesh; but they that are after the Spirit the things of the Spirit. 6 For to be carnally minded is death; but to be spiritually minded is life and peace.
7 Because the carnal mind is enmity against God: for it is not subject to the law of God, neither indeed can be. 8 So then they that are in the flesh cannot please God.
Rom 7:13 Was then that which is good made death unto me? God forbid. But sin, that it might appear sin, working death in me by that which is good; that sin by the commandment might become exceeding sinful. 14 For we know that the law is spiritual: but I am carnal, sold under sin.
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Michael Harrison
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Willingness has nothing to do with it. Your best willingness is abject failureism.
Jesus is the Sabbath. We are keeping the Sabbath by beliveing in Him as keeping the law, that we not have to sin.
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Isaiah
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So -you are saying the sabbath command is important -but that we will be delivered from disobeying it?
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Michael Harrison
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I don't know if you can handle it. It is transgressing Jesus, who is the keeper of the Law.
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Isaiah
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What is sin -according to the bible? Shall he not deliver us from unwillngness to obey his law?
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Michael Harrison
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"Doing as He says," is believing unto Him that He may deliver you from failing due to your sinful nature.
You do not have to sin as you have described. You have a deliverer.
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Isaiah
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Are you saying we can kill, steal, bear false witness, covet, dishonor parents, have other gods, commit adultery, take God's name in vain? If not, why do you single out -without authority -the sabbath commandment? Are you saying we are not even responsible for trying to do so?
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Michael Harrison
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I could beat my head on a brick wall! You cannot keep the commandments, and He does not expect you to assume that you can just wait for this life to be over before you start experiencing His resurrected life of keeping them.
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Isaiah
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What do you mean? I'm certainly too close to the truth -hence my unpopularity and defamation, but, though we will be sinners until we die and are made perfect, this does not remove our responsibilities -believing is one thing, but those who do not DO as he says will not enter into his rest.
Luk 6:46 And why call ye me, Lord, Lord, and do not the things which I say?
Mar 7:6 He answered and said unto them, Well hath Isaiah prophesied of you hypocrites, as it is written, This people honoreth me with their lips, but their heart is far from me.
Mar 7:7 Howbeit in vain do they worship me, teaching for doctrines the commandments of men.
Mar 7:8 For laying aside the commandment of God, ye hold the tradition of men, as the washing of pots and cups: and many other such like things ye do.
Mar 7:9 And he said unto them, Full well ye reject the commandment of God, that ye may keep your own tradition.
Mar 7:10 For Moses said, Honor thy father and thy mother; and, whoso curseth father or mother, let him die the death:
Mar 7:11 But ye say, If a man shall say to his father or mother, It is Corban, that is to say, a gift, by whatsoever thou mightest be profited by me; he shall be free.
Mar 7:12 And ye suffer him no more to do aught for his father or his mother;
Mar 7:13 Making the word of God of none effect through your tradition, which ye have delivered: and many such like things do ye.
Seems like the commandments were rather important to him.
Don't shirk the responsibility to keep his commandments.
Mat 5:48 Be ye therefore perfect, even as your Father which is in heaven is perfect.
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Michael Harrison
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Jesus is the only one 'who kept' and the only one who can 'keep' the law. This means everything that can be meant. No effort on our part will accomplish our keeping the law. Therefore, we depend on His keeping it for us. For His keeping it for us to be appropiated in us, we need to find something that we are unaware that we are able to find, until He reveals it to us. T
There are laborers out there trying to exort believers to discover this. The number one such person was the Apostle Paul. Alas, all misappropiate his instructions, well meaning though they may be.
So lemme say it again. Only Jesus kept, and only Jesus can keep the law. This is why He is our Savior. But it can be manifest in us by trusting Him in the right way, by believing the right way.
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Michael Harrison
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Begging your pardon Isaiah, Jesus is the only one who can keep the Law. That is why He is our rest. ![[Wink]](wink.gif)
Maybe you are getting close to something.
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Isaiah
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The bible does not say we ought not keep the law -in fact, it says we are more responsible to do so if we have the spirit which enables us to do so.
Rom 6:14 For sin shall not have dominion over you: for ye are not under the law, but under grace.
Rom 6:15 What then? shall we sin, because we are not under the law, but under grace? God forbid.
Meaning -keep the law, as sin is the transgression thereof. We should not sin -and sin is breaking the law.
Mat 19:17 And he said unto him, Why callest thou me good? there is none good but one, that is, God: but if thou wilt enter into life, keep the commandments.
Mat 19:18 He saith unto him, Which? Jesus said, Thou shalt do no murder, Thou shalt not commit adultery, Thou shalt not steal, Thou shalt not bear false witness,
Mat 19:19 Honor thy father and thy mother: and, Thou shalt love thy neighbor as thyself.
Did he mean all of them, only 9 of them minus the sabbath -or just the ones he mentioned here minus the sabbath and those pertaining to God?
Luk 10:25 And, behold, a certain lawyer stood up, and tempted him, saying, Master, what shall I do to inherit eternal life?
Luk 10:26 He said unto him, What is written in the law? how readest thou?
Luk 10:27 And he answering said, Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy strength, and with all thy mind; and thy neighbor as thyself.
Luk 10:28 And he said unto him, Thou hast answered right: this do, and thou shalt live.
I am not judging any according to days, etc... merely taking part in a discussion about them.
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Isaiah
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Again -this does not say that the sabbath and holy days should not be kept -nowhere does it say that -that is assumption at best.
You might want to study this scripture... as it says quite the opposite -and explains that even the sabbath -which should be kept -is foreshadowing Christ and the rest of the whole creation beginning with his rule. Emphasis mine in the following...
Heb 4:1 Therefore, while the promise of entering his rest still stands, let us fear lest any of you should seem to have failed to reach it.
Heb 4:2 For good news came to us just as to them, but the message they heard did not benefit them, because they were not united by faith with those who listened.
Heb 4:3 For we who have believed enter [not have entered!] that rest, as he has said, As I swore in my wrath, They shall not enter my rest, although his works were finished from the foundation of the world.
Heb 4:4 For he has somewhere SPOKEN OF THE SEVENTH DAY in this way: And GOD RESTED ON THE SEVENTH DAY from all his works.
Heb 4:5 And again in this passage he said, "They shall not enter my rest."
Heb 4:6 Since therefore IT REMAINS FOR SOME TO ENTER IT, and those who formerly received the good news FAILED to enter because of DISOBENDIENCE,
Heb 4:7 again he appoints a certain day, "Today," saying through David so long afterward, in the words already quoted, "Today, if you hear his voice, do not harden your hearts."
Heb 4:8 For IF Joshua HAD given them rest, God would not have spoken of another day later on.
Heb 4:9 So then, THERE REMAINS A S A B B A T H REST FOR THE PEOPLE OF GOD,
Heb 4:10 for whoever has entered God's rest has also RESTED FROM HIS WORKS AS GOD RESTED FROM HIS.
Heb 4:11 Let US therefore STRIVE to enter that rest, so that no one may fall by the same sort of disobedience.
Heb 4:12 For the word of God is living and active, sharper than any two-edged sword, piercing to the division of soul and of spirit, of joints and of marrow, and discerning the thoughts and intentions of the heart.
You say that Christ IS the sabbath -but Christ said he is Lord OF THE SABBATH, and that the sabbath was MADE FOR MAN. He is certainly the rest, but what he did while on earth was only the beginning. Even the weekly sabbath points to a rest that has not been -even what Christ did on earth was only the beginning of the rest that will later be. If you should say the above speaks of Jesus Christ or Joshua(Jesus and Joshua being the same word), it says he did NOT give them rest -but spoke of another day later on. The writer says that even he should strive to enter it -lest he fall BY DISOBEDIENCE. SO HE HAD NOT ENTERED IT.
Also -there are two words for rest in these verses.... one is rest -the other is SABBATH(ism).
Now look closely at the following.....
Heb 4:9 There remaineth therefore a sabbath rest for the people of God.
Heb 4:10 For he that is entered into his rest hath himself also rested from his works, as God did from his.
Heb 4:11 Let us therefore give diligence to enter into that rest, that no man fall after the same example of disobedience.
Yes -there is another day -rather -the millenium rest which the weekly sabbath rest foreshadows -as does the feast of tabernacles. We enter it by OBEDIENCE. We enter it be NOT SINNING. We enter it by RESTING FROM OUR WORKS AS GOD RESTED FROM HIS. Even if you think this simply means repentance, realize that repentance is of SIN -and SIN is the transgression of the LAW. ONE OF THOSE LAWS SAYS TO R E M E M B E R the SABBATH -to keep IT HOLY! THESE VERSES TELL YOU TO OBEY GOD BY KEEPING THE SABBATH -RESTING AS HE DID ON THE SEVENTH DAY!
1Jo 3:3 And every man that hath this hope in him purifieth himself, even as he is pure.
1Jo 3:4 Whosoever committeth sin transgresseth also the law: for sin is the transgression of the law.
1Ti 1:8 But we know that the law is good, if a man use it lawfully;
Rom 6:1 What shall we say then? Shall we continue in sin, that grace may abound?
Rom 6:2 God forbid. How shall we, that are dead to sin, live any longer therein?
Rom 6:14 For sin shall not have dominion over you: for ye are not under the law, but under grace.
Rom 6:15 What then? shall we sin, because we are not under the law, but under grace? God forbid.
Rom 6:16 Know ye not, that to whom ye yield yourselves servants to obey, his servants ye are to whom ye obey; whether of sin unto death, or of obedience unto righteousness?
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Michael Harrison
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Nyet Isaiah! Keeping the 'days' is law, plain and simple, and we have all the wisdom of the writers of the epistles to the effect that we are not under law, but under grace.
No man discovers rest wherein they may 'untie' His hands that His will may be done. Rather, under the oppression of the devil they try to 'do' what they fear that God wants, thereby tying His hands. The devil delights in this because it is artificial. It plays into his hands because the efforts of man cannot accomplish what only God can do.
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Michael Harrison
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Eph 3:9 And to make all men see what is the fellowship of the mystery, which from the beginning of the world hath been hid in God, who created all things by Jesus Christ:
Heb 4:9 There remaineth therefore a rest to the people of God. Heb 4:10 For he that is entered into his rest, he also hath ceased from his own works, as God did from his. Heb 4:11 Let us labour therefore to enter into that rest, lest any man fall after the same example of unbelief.
Heb 4:1 Let us therefore fear, lest, a promise being left us of entering into his rest, any of you should seem to come short of it. Heb 4:2 For unto us was the gospel preached, as well as unto them: but the word preached did not profit them, not being mixed with faith in them that heard it.
Heb 4:3 For we which have believed do enter into rest, as he said, As I have sworn in my wrath, if they shall enter into my rest: although the works were finished from the foundation of the world.
Heb 4:4 For he spake in a certain place of the seventh day on this wise, And God did rest the seventh day from all his works. Heb 4:5 And in this place again, If they shall enter into my rest.
Heb 4:6 Seeing therefore it remaineth that some must enter therein, [New Testament Believers] and they to whom it was first preached entered not in because of unbelief:
Heb 4:7 Again, he limiteth a certain day, saying in David, To day, after so long a time; as it is said, To day if ye will hear his voice, harden not your hearts. Heb 4:8 For if Jesus had given them rest, then would he not afterward have spoken of another day.
Heb 4:9 There remaineth therefore a rest to the people of God. Heb 4:10 For he that is entered into his rest, he also hath ceased from his own works, as God did from his. [By resting in Jesus who accomplishes for us]
Heb 4:11 Let us labour therefore to enter into that rest, lest any man fall after the same example of unbelief.
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Michael Harrison
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The very life of Jesus is your life. Either you are living it, or you are frustrating it. What you believe in your heart makes this difference!
What the believer believes in the heart by and large misses the mark. This is why we have the Apostle Paul, and the epistles attempting to expound on it for the edification of the body of believers. I am not talking about whether one is saved or not. What I am talking about is whether one gets what Paul is saying as it pertains to living the life of Christ, or not living it. There is an abundant understanding that falls short of the reality of His truth in living it.
What motivates people is either what men think of them, or what God thinks of them. Neverminding the first group, the second is well meaning, but they miss what God thinks of them. In so doing, they try to 'do' what they think pleases Him. However, they are not hearing His heart! Does anybody really want to do that?
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Carol Swenson
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Michael,
You have a unique way of expressing the truth. Sometimes I cannot understand what you are saying.
![[happyhappy]](graemlins/happyhappy.gif)
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Michael Harrison
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In Numbers 15:32 the man disobeyed by 'doing'. In our day, if you try to do, rather than letting the grace of God do, you are stone cold separate from Him in it, in so doing. You are not being obedient. You are sinning unto death and separation, such that your relationship suffers, and He is not manifest to you (and through you).
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Michael Harrison
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Jesus is the fulfillment of the Passover feast. He is the "Way, the truth and the life." Any observance of the feast will not be by way of any observance of any day. He is the day of atonement. He IS>
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Michael Harrison
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Jesus is the Sabbath rest. This is the seventh day we are currently in. Jesus is the rest of God. You are no longer under law, but under His provision, which He paid dearly to bring to you, that you may walk in it.
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Michael Harrison
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Exactly tb. I believe that you are blinded by pride. Let me tell you something about communicaton. Mister Rush, on his radio show likes to say that "Words mean things." However it goes deeper than that even. Words are the vehicle for meaning. The idea is for the recipient to get the meaning that is conveyed in any statement, which is not so easy to do sometimes. Words are not perfect for conveying meaning, but one makes their best effort to be sucessful. And no matter the skill of the speaker, the results are not guaranteed.
Jesus will have to have been the best ever, and they still didn't understand Him. Nevertheless, He still spoke in parables sometimes, the reason being that He would have the hearer dig to unearth the truth. He would have them humble themselves that they might receive what He was saying, which was nigh to their ears, if their heart would entertain it.
In the very second message in this thread, I stated in the simplest terms that one must turn everything in their heart over to Jesus to begin to know Him and walk with Him. With the narrow gate illustrated with a sign pointing to where the very opening was, the hearer instead of entering therein, posed a question to the one pointing out the gate, and thereby evaded entering in, and at the same time tried to take the instructor to task as though to expose a flaw in his theology.
Sincere questions are acceptable. All others will receive a parable!!! But what have I said that the word does not say?
"Seek ye first the Kingdom of God and His righteousness, and all of these things will be added on."
If you do not that which is first, you labor in vain to 'do' the rest.
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Carol Swenson
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The Sabbath commemorates God’s creation rest. It marks a finished creation. After Sinai it was a day of legal obligation. The Sabbath is mentioned often in the book of Acts in connection with the Jews. In the rest of the NT it occurs but twice (Colossians 2:16; Hebrews 4:4). In these passages the Sabbath is set forth not as a day to be observed but as typical of the present rest into which the believer entered when he “also rested [ceased] from his works” (v. 10) and trusted Christ.
As the Sabbath commemorates God’s creation rest, the first day speaks of Christ’s resurrection. The seventh day marks God’s creative rest. On the first day Christ was unceasingly active. The seventh day commemorates a finished creation, the first day a finished redemption.
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Isaiah
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Why do you believe the feast of tabernacles will be kept when Christ returns -or do you? Also -do you observe any days? which?
Zec 14:9 And the LORD shall be king over all the earth: in that day shall there be one LORD, and his name one.
Zec 14:10 All the land shall be turned as a plain from Geba to Rimmon south of Jerusalem: and it shall be lifted up, and inhabited in her place, from Benjamin's gate unto the place of the first gate, unto the corner gate, and from the tower of Hananeel unto the king's winepresses.
Zec 14:11 And men shall dwell in it, and there shall be no more utter destruction; but Jerusalem shall be safely inhabited.
Zec 14:12 And this shall be the plague wherewith the LORD will smite all the people that have fought against Jerusalem; Their flesh shall consume away while they stand upon their feet, and their eyes shall consume away in their holes, and their tongue shall consume away in their mouth.
Zec 14:13 And it shall come to pass in that day, that a great tumult from the LORD shall be among them; and they shall lay hold every one on the hand of his neighbor, and his hand shall rise up against the hand of his neighbor.
Zec 14:14 And Judah also shall fight at Jerusalem; and the wealth of all the heathen round about shall be gathered together, gold, and silver, and apparel, in great abundance.
Zec 14:15 And so shall be the plague of the horse, of the mule, of the camel, and of the *** , and of all the beasts that shall be in these tents, as this plague.
Zec 14:16 And it shall come to pass, that every one that is left of all the nations which came against Jerusalem shall even go up from year to year to worship the King, the LORD of hosts, and to keep the feast of tabernacles.
Zec 14:17 And it shall be, that whoso will not come up of all the families of the earth unto Jerusalem to worship the King, the LORD of hosts, even upon them shall be no rain.
Zec 14:18 And if the family of Egypt go not up, and come not, that have no rain; there shall be the plague, wherewith the LORD will smite the heathen that come not up to keep the feast of tabernacles.
Zec 14:19 This shall be the punishment of Egypt, and the punishment of all nations that come not up to keep the feast of tabernacles.
Gal 4:10 Ye observe days, and months, and times, and years. -IN NO WAY SAYS "do not keep the sabbath and holy days I gave you to observe forever"
Exo 12:14 And this day shall be unto you for a memorial; and ye shall keep it a feast to the LORD throughout your generations; ye shall keep it a feast by an ordinance forever.
We are definitely to still keep the passover feast -as plainly stated in scripture....
1Co 5:7 Purge out therefore the old leaven, that ye may be a new lump, as ye are unleavened. For even Christ our passover is sacrificed for us: 1Co 5:8 Therefore let us keep the feast, not with old leaven, neither with the leaven of malice and wickedness; but with the unleavened bread of sincerity and truth.
However -not by the slaughtering of an animal, etc... which WAS done away... but as Christ taught his apostles and told them to do likewise....TIL HE COMES!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
1Co 11:24 And when he had given thanks, he broke it, and said, Take, eat: this is my body, which is broken for you: this do in remembrance of me.
1Co 11:25 After the same manner also he took the cup, when he had supped, saying, This cup is the new testament in my blood: this do ye, as oft as ye drink it, in remembrance of me.
1Co 11:26 For as often as ye eat this bread, and drink this cup, ye do show the Lord's death till he come.
Christ is the rest and the passover -but he did not say we should not observe either day..
They are not a burden -they are a joy.
It is written...
Rom 14:5 One man esteemeth one day above another: another esteemeth every day alike. Let every man be fully persuaded in his own mind...
but this is NOT saying to disregard days GOD HIMSELF MADE HOLY FOREVER.
Gen 2:3 And God blessed the seventh day, and sanctified it: because that in it he had rested from all his work which God created and made.
He never un-blessed it..never un-sanctified it -or any other.
The one was stoned for picking up sticks -the apostles were not for picking corn -but they were still keeping the sabbath -as the Lord of the sabbath focused more on the joy thereof than the strictness which was necessary for what he was accomplishing with ancient Israel -saying the sabbath was MADE FOR MAN -(not done away with for man) -not man for the sabbath.
Again -BE VERY CAREFUL ABOUT TEACHING MEN NOT TO OBSERVE THE SABBATH COMMANDMENT -OR ANY OTHER OF GOD'S ORDINANCES.
Mat 5:17 Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfill.
Mat 5:18 For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled.
Mat 5:19 Whosoever therefore shall break one of these least commandments, and shall teach men so, he shall be called the least in the kingdom of heaven: but whosoever shall do and teach them, the same shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven.
Notice what he says next is NOT about not keeping the commandments -but HOW they are now TO BE KEPT ON A DEEPER SPIRITUAL LEVEL.
Mat 5:20 For I say unto you, That except your righteousness shall exceed the righteousness of the scribes and Pharisees, ye shall in no case enter into the kingdom of heaven.
Mat 5:21 Ye have heard that it was said by them of old time, Thou shalt not kill; and whosoever shall kill shall be in danger of the judgment:
Mat 5:22 But I say unto you, That whosoever is angry with his brother without a cause shall be in danger of the judgment: and whosoever shall say to his brother, Raca, shall be in danger of the council: but whosoever shall say, Thou fool, shall be in danger of hell fire (etc......)
THE SABBATH COMMANDMENT WHICH HAS NOT PASSED AWAY IS NO DIFFERENT!
God gave all of his sabbaths to teach us his plan -no wonder man is so confused about him.
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TB125
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Michael,
You say, quote:
Communication is a funny thing
It really isn't "a funny thing". I know because I've made much of my living in the communication business. I've been a designer,writer, editor, and teacher of Christian curriculum for many years. I've served two Christian schools as the professional communication specialists, and worked for a secular college in the same capacity.
You apparently don't know me or you wouldn't address such a statement as this to me: quote:
If you read scripture the way it is written, it will shock you alive, by slaying you.
I began preaching from the Scriptures in 1953 while I was still a college student, and read some of them in Hebrew and Greek while I studied them further in seminary. I have written and published study courses on various scriptural passages. I have published two of my sermons on my website along with some other "good topics", which you may read here: http://christianityetc.org. I hope that you would endeavor to get to know me a little better than you do before we continue to go much further with our "communication". This following statement about me is very judgmental: quote:
It is the absence of recognition of who He is to you that led to the question.
Get a good night's sleep. Perhaps we can continue this after you clarify your perception of me.
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Bob
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Michael Harrison
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quote:
I'll take this comment to mean that "having" Jesus makes it "possible" for a person to live without committing more "sins", but this "sin"less life style will not "automatically" be a part of the person's relationship with Jesus. Is that a fair understanding of your belief regarding this matter?
This is pretty close. What people don't realize is that there is provision to abide in Him. It, in His profound love, is His gift of Himself to us. However, people automatically annul this on one basis or another to justify something short of where He calls them to be. They are missing it. It is a tear jerker of unbelievable maginatude. He longs to embrace, and exonerate by His blood. Few will be privy to the real significance.
"Let Him take care of the sin," is a direct answer. It is!
I'm on East Coast time. I am getting sleepy. See ya in a bit 125. If you read scripture the way it is written, it will shock you alive, by slaying you.
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Michael Harrison
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Not really! Communication is a funny thing. It sometimes takes work. It is not that you sinned because you asked that question. It is the absence of recognition of who He is to you that led to the question. I desire nothing more than for you to know His highest, for your utmost. And I am willing to stick to it like glue to answer you satisfactorily. However, I cannot impart revelation to you. This is why I said that there is something that cannot be said; nevertheless it can be discovered.
Don't misunderstand me. I am not criticizing. I am desirous. Nevertheless, there are those who simply want to shoot down any description of His provision for self satisfying reasons, to their own defeat before Him. The innocent however will discover His provision, if they do not exalt themselves.
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TB125
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posted
Michael,
You imply in this question to me that I have committed a "sin" by asking you a simple question. quote:
Will ye continue to sin, such that you have to ask this question over and over?
Then you admonish me in this way: quote:
Is it wrong to provoke, or exhort someone to seek the proper relationship? For one thing, you are asking the wrong person. Your relationship is not first with me, then God. It is vertical first, then horizontal.
I'm not seeking a relationship with you! I'm only trying to understand your beliefs more clearly.
Then you say this to me quote:
... the question is ludicrous. You have read my other posts and you know that I haven't said that. In fact what I have always said is that you no longer have to obey sin. Seek to find Jesus first, and let Him take care for the sin. But if you seek to be able to accuse me, why should I pander to it?
I have read most of your several hundred posts, which is why I asked you the question. From all of the posts that I have read from you, I'm trying to clearly understand what you believe about this matter. Even your above statement, "let Him take care for the sin", is not a clear straight answer to my question. I'm not trying to "accuse" you of anything. Why should I do that?
I'll take this closing comment from you as your answer to my question: quote:
But to walk in the light as He is in the light is what you can partake of, as He has made it possible - not automatic.
I'll take this comment to mean that "having" Jesus makes it "possible" for a person to live without committing more "sins", but this "sin"less life style will not "automatically" be a part of the person's relationship with Jesus. Is that a fair understanding of your belief regarding this matter?
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Bob
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Michael Harrison
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TB. I am not being condescending to you. Is it wrong to provoke, or exhort someone to seek the proper relationship? For one thing, you are asking the wrong person. Your relationship is not first with me, then God. It is vertical first, then horizontal. This is fulfilled in thou shalt love the Lord thy God, and by so doing, thy neighbor as thyself.
But I consider your question both provocative, and simultaneously evasive. Consider your question.
quote:
When a person has Jesus, as you have described one's relationship with Jesus as "having" him, is such a person no longer able to disobey Jesus or to "sin" against God?
I would like to answer you sweetly, but the question is ludicrous. You have read my other posts and you know that I haven't said that. In fact what I have always said is that you no longer have to obey sin. Seek to find Jesus first, and let Him take care for the sin. But if you seek to be able to accuse me, why should I pander to it?
Nevertheless, if I am wrong about you, my opening post states a simple fact about what Jesus has done for us. Nobody finds it out because of the sin of doing, and further by justifying failure.
Joh 3:20 For every one that doeth evil hateth the light, neither cometh to the light, lest his deeds should be reproved.
But to walk in the light as He is in the light is what you can partake of, as He has made it possible - not automatic. It is subject to the faith of the believer, which can waver. Nevertheless what He has done and is doing is a fact, whether we participate or not.
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TB125
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Michael,
I asked you a simple and clear question in a polite manner and I get this response from you.
quote:
Will you always confound the truth? Of course I have answered this. Will ye continue to sin, such that you have to ask this question over and over? Do you not have Jesus?
I'm only trying to understand you. I resent your arrogant and judgmental attitude.
You have a slippery way of using words, like in this statement:
quote:
What is important cannot be stated. But it can be discovered!
Does that mean that you can't "state" what you have "discovered" about "having Jesus" in response to my simple question? I'm sure that you have a very good vocabulary, so I don't understand what it is that keeps you from answering my question. I can guess, but that isn't helpful. I'm not trying to offend you or to judge you. I'm only trying to understand you more clearly.
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Bob
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Michael Harrison
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What is important cannot be stated. But it can be discovered!
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Michael Harrison
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Will you always confound the truth? Of course I have answered this. Will ye continue to sin, such that you have to ask this question over and over? Do you not have Jesus?
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