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Topic: Paul is a false teacher
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KnowHim
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Member # 1
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posted
Can we trust what Paul wrote?
2 Peter 3:15 through 2 Peter 3:16 (KJV)
15And account that the longsuffering of our Lord is salvation; even as our beloved brother Paul also according to the wisdom given unto him hath written unto you; 16As also in all his epistles, speaking in them of these things; in which are some things hard to be understood, which they that are unlearned and unstable wrest, as they do also the other scriptures, unto their own destruction.
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Sure seems Peter who walked with Jesus says we can. He calls Paul's writing scripture.
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Posts: 3276 | From: Charlestown, IN | Registered: Jun 2002
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nehushtan
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posted
quote:
Originally posted by Caretaker:
Only through Jesus is there salvation, for He is the Way, the Truth and the Life.
Romans 10:
9: That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved.
10: For with the heart man believeth unto righteousness; and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation.
11: For the scripture saith, Whosoever believeth on him shall not be ashamed.
12: For there is no difference between the Jew and the Greek: for the same Lord over all is rich unto all that call upon him.
13: For whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved.
Any extra-Biblical knowledge which teaches contrary to the Word is false teaching.
Jesus is returning Alasdair, and He will rule with His saints.
Rev. 1:
5: And from Jesus Christ, who is the faithful witness, and the first begotten of the dead, and the prince of the kings of the earth. Unto him that loved us, and washed us from our sins in his own blood,
6: And hath made us kings and priests unto God and his Father; to him be glory and dominion for ever and ever. Amen.
7: Behold, he cometh with clouds; and every eye shall see him, and they also which pierced him: and all kindreds of the earth shall wail because of him. Even so, Amen.
Acts 1:
9: And when he had spoken these things, while they beheld, he was taken up; and a cloud received him out of their sight.
10: And while they looked stedfastly toward heaven as he went up, behold, two men stood by them in white apparel;
11: Which also said, Ye men of Galilee, why stand ye gazing up into heaven? this same Jesus, which is taken up from you into heaven, shall so come in like manner as ye have seen him go into heaven.
Rev. 20:
4: And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years.
5: But the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished. This is the first resurrection.
6: Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years.
Very little of the Word is to be found on your website Alasdair, and a majority of your personal interpretation of the world, and a manipulation of worldly names to misinterpret eschatology.
The Word of God is what is Truth Alasdair, not private interpretations of man.
What you teach is contrary to the Word of God, Alasdair.
quote:
posted by nehushtan:
Hi Drew:
Individuals like 'Alasdair' do for a fact know that which they post is definitely 'contrary to the Word of God'; that is their purpose, to cause divisiveness or confusion. Please, do not be their source of entertainment. Admonish them and rebuke them twice; if they persist in their heterodoxies, simply reject and ignore them.
(Matthew 18:17, KJV)
And if he shall neglect to hear them, tell it unto the church: but if he neglect to hear the church, let him be unto thee as an heathen man and a publican.
No amount of teaching/preaching can ever reach them; they are spiritually blinded and deafened. Cast their dust off you feet and move onward. Were not these types of heretics/heresies foretold in the Word of God?
(I Corinthians 11:19, KJV)
For there must be also heresies among you, that they which are approved may be made manifest among you.
Religious hecklers cannot understand the spiritual things of God.
(I Corinthians 2:14, KJV)
But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned.
Do not waste your valuable resources entertaining lost religionists.
(Matthew 7:6, KJV)
Give not that which is holy unto the dogs, neither cast ye your pearls before swine, lest they trample them under their feet, and turn again and rend you.
God Bless,
><>...secure1forever
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TEXASGRANDMA
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posted
I have been blessed to take part in a study of Paul's writings in my Church in Texas. I found Paul's writings to be very inspiring and encouraging.
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Luk 21:28 And when these things begin to come to pass, then look up, and lift up your heads; for your redemption draweth nigh.
http://www.indieheaven.com/artists/mm (son-in-law)http://www.myspace.com/mireles
Posts: 4985 | From: Washington State | Registered: Jan 2003
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kllane
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posted
I am truley sorry that you have been so decieved by someone,not only have you been decieved,but now you stand firm on the deception. You say Paul portrays Christ as an idol of forgiveness. The Bible and Christ himself tells us that he,and faith in him is our only means of forgiveness. Through his death and ressurection,we as sinners are spared from God's rath. Paul only tries to help us lay hold of this truth! According to 2Tim 3:16 All scripture is God breathed. Revelations tells us not to and or take away from this word of God, and according to Gods word he not only chose those who wrote this word He through the Holy Spirit chose the words they wrote. I pray God will open your heart and your eyes to His truth.
Sincerely, a believer in Jesus Christ,and a follower of his teachings, the Jesus who blinded Saul and said Saul,Saul why do you persecute me, who Christ then named Paul who preach the message of Jesus Christ all the days of his life!
kllane ![[Bible]](graemlins/bible.gif)
Posts: 35 | From: texas | Registered: Dec 2006
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kllane
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posted
quote:
Originally posted by alasdair:
Paul does not teach what Jesus taught. He teaches payment for priests, sets up the church system and treats Jesus as an idol of forgiveness rather than someone who should be followed. He was not an eyewitness of the teachings of Jesus, yet 13 letters were included in the New Testament.
Posts: 35 | From: texas | Registered: Dec 2006
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artm
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posted
Hey, His everyone tonight ?
To say that Paul is a fake is to say His teaching on the Cross,and His teachings of Christ are fake also.
Thats just dumb, For someone to say such things just proves the need of redemption.
And for me or anyone else to even respond to such ignorance is just dumb.
Art.
Posts: 50 | From: New York | Registered: Dec 2006
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KnowHim
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Paul made know Christ's will with unmistakable clarity. There is no doubt that Paul holds the most important place of any man in the New Testament. He was converted and made an apostle by Christ Himself. It was to him that Christ gave first-hand revelations of truth, and to him Christ committed the doctrine of the Church. He was the apostle to the Gentiles, as Peter had been to the Jews.
From: What the Bible is All About
Henrietta C. Mears
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Posts: 3276 | From: Charlestown, IN | Registered: Jun 2002
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alasdair
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posted
The two commandments summarise the teachings of Jesus. Rejecting Paul comes under the first commandment and self-sacrifice comes under the second.
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Favor Minded
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posted
quote:
The rising from the death is fine, but following Jesus is much more important.
quote:
if you believe that he existed and rose from the dead then that's fine apparently, which goes against Matthew 7:21
Your denouncing the Bible is blasphemous sacrilege - Regardless of the "fluff" you try to convey with your "Jesus Only" statements...
quote:
Yes! More specifically:
1. Love the Lord your God with all your strength heart mind and soul
2. Love your neighbour as yourself
So you think that these are the only important things? The only commandments to be followed, etc??
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Matthew 24:36
"No one knows about that day or hour, not even the angels in heaven, nor the Son, but only the Father
Posts: 129 | From: WA | Registered: May 2005
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alasdair
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Yes! More specifically:
1. Love the Lord your God with all your strength heart mind and soul
2. Love your neighbour as yourself
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Bandit
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posted
quote:
Originally posted by alasdair:
...
I put no more credence into what Peter says than into what Paul says - Peter's letters are less damaging than Paul's because they don't really say anything at all, whereas Paul's letters invent an entirely new theology.
It is Paul who twists the theology of Jesus. By contrast I'm advising that people ignore Paul, Peter, paid priests and anyone else and just do what Jesus says.
So, alasdair, what is it you follow, the four gospels only?
Posts: 113 | From: Melbourne, Florida | Registered: Jul 2004
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alasdair
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Of course I don't follow that religion - I advocate following Jesus exclusively.
The rising from the death is fine, but following Jesus is much more important.
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Favor Minded
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So you don't deny being baha'i??
Here is something with MUCH more credibility that the "theology" you have presented...
Are you familiar with Simon Greenleaf?
Dr. Greenleaf, the Royal Professor of Law at Harvard University, is among the greatest legal minds that ever lived.
He wrote the famous legal volume entitled, A Treatise on the Law of Evidence, considered by many scholars as the greatest legal volume ever written.
Dr. Greenleaf was a bitter opponent of Christianity. He believed the resurrection of Jesus Christ was history’s greatest hoax.
After being challenged by some zealous Christian students, Dr. Greenleaf determined, once and for all, to expose the silly "myth" of the resurrection.
After thoroughly examining the legal evidence for the resurrection — Dr. Greenleaf came to the exact opposite conclusion! He wrote the famous book entitled, An Examination of the Testimony of the Four Evangelists by the Rules of Evidence Administered in the Courts of Justice.
After his exhaustive study to "disprove" the resurrection of Jesus Christ, Dr. Greenleaf wrote the following incredible words:
"it was IMPOSSIBLE that the apostles could have persisted in affirming the truths they had narrated, had not JESUS CHRIST ACTUALLY RISEN FROM THE DEAD, . . ."
(Simon Greenleaf, An Examination of the Testimony of the Four Evangelists by the Rules of Evidence Administered in the Courts of Justice, p.29).
Greenleaf concluded that according to the jurisdiction of legal evidence, the resurrection of Jesus Christ was the best supported event in all of history.
And not only that, Dr. Greenleaf was so convinced by the overwhelming evidence, he committed his life to the Lord Jesus Christ.
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Matthew 24:36
"No one knows about that day or hour, not even the angels in heaven, nor the Son, but only the Father
Posts: 129 | From: WA | Registered: May 2005
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alasdair
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posted
I do read Paul's writings as they really are - -but from a perspective of someone following Jesus. For example:
Paul treats Jesus as an idol of forgiveness, an object rather than a teacher to be followed. If "Jesus the Idol of Forgiveness" is sung to and if you believe that he existed and rose from the dead then that's fine apparently, which goes against Matthew 7:21
21 “Not everyone who calls me ‘Lord, Lord’ will enter the Kingdom of heaven, but only those who do what my Father in heaven wants them to do. 22 When Judgement Day comes, many will say to me, ‘Lord, Lord! In your name we spoke God's message, by your name we drove out many demons and performed many miracles!’ 23 Then I will say to them, ‘I never knew you. Get away from me, you wicked people!’
And it goes against Matthew 7:13
13 “Go in through the narrow gate, because the gate to hell is wide and the road that leads to it is easy, and there are many who travel it. 14 But the gate to life is narrow and the way that leads to it is hard, and there are few people who find it.
And it goes against what Jesus said when he told people to "follow him" (Mt 16,24, Mt 19,21, Mk 8,34, Lk 9,23, Lk 18,22, Jn 12,26).
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Favor Minded
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posted
The Baha'i religion is one of the cults / false teachings of today.
There are Baha'is who believe that the Apostle Paul was some kind of "false teacher." This viewpoint is not correct.
'Abdu'l-Baha referred to Paul, saying, "Paul, the Apostle, was in his early life an enemy of Christ, whilst later he became his most faithful servant." (Paris Talks, p. 147)
The Universal House of Justice, in a letter to a believer dated February 25, 1980, wrote: "The Research Department has found nothing in the writings of Baha'u'llah, 'Abdu'l-Baha or the Guardian which states that St. Paul 'usurped the station of Peter' or that he 'changed the basic message of Peter' or that he 'changed the basic message of Christ.'"
It is so much easier to teach Christians without having to deny Paul. In fact, I've found that Paul is my best friend when talking with Christians. Read his writings the way they really are -- not the way people have twisted them.
Paul wrote: "We speak ... expressing spiritual truths in spiritual words. The man without the Spirit does not accept the things which come from the Spirit of God for they are foolishness to him and he cannot understand them because they are spiritually discerned." (I Corinthians 2:14; New International version)
Paul's teachings must be spiritually discerned or spiritually interpreted.
Paul's writings on resurrection are the oldest on this topic in the New Testament. He explains that when a person dies, his/her being is like a seed. "It is sown a physical body, it is raised a spiritual body...." Speaking of Jesus' resurrection, he wrote: "the last Adam [who was Jesus] became a life-giving spirit...flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God." (I Corinthians 15; Revised Standard version)
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Matthew 24:36
"No one knows about that day or hour, not even the angels in heaven, nor the Son, but only the Father
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alasdair
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posted
Peter also gave three food restrictions to the gentiles in Acts - after receiving a vision three times that he should not declare unclean the things that have been declared clean, and after saying three times that he did not know Jesus. In other words he taught the wrong thing.
I put no more credence into what Peter says than into what Paul says - Peter's letters are less damaging than Paul's because they don't really say anything at all, whereas Paul's letters invent an entirely new theology.
It is Paul who twists the theology of Jesus. By contrast I'm advising that people ignore Paul, Peter, paid priests and anyone else and just do what Jesus says.
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Bandit
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posted
quote:
Originally posted by alasdair:
Paul does not teach what Jesus taught...
alasdair,
What has led you to such conclusions? From what I have read of your other posts, It seems likely to me that you are making an inference from the behavor of some supposed Christians to what you think Paul said and taught. And I believe your inference is incorrect. I, for one, see great unity between the teaching of Jesus and the apostles - including Paul.
There have always been those who have twisted the scriptures for their own purpose. If you are sincerely looking for someone to help explain some of the inconsistency you think you see between Jesus and Paul, then there are those here who can help, like myself; but, on the other hand, if you have come here with only the intent to sow seeds of discord, then you are wasting your time and will soon be banned by the powers that be.
You know, there is a certain amount of truth to the notion that what one gets out of an endevor is related directly to what one puts into that endevor. For instance, if your approach to scripture has been to find (or manufacture) disunity, then you will no doubt succeed in that endevor (at least in your own mind). The approach you should have had toward scripture is one which assumed unity of purpose. There are a lot of sceptics and liberal "scholars" who claim all sorts of biblical knowledge, but they are simply ungodly men who seek to deceive the masses.
Concerning Paul and his teachings, Peter wrote the following in 2nd Peter 3:14-16.
"Therefore, beloved, looking forward to these things, be dilegent to be found by Him in peace, without spot and blameless; and account that the longsuffering of out Lord is salvation - as also out beloved brother Paul (according to the wisdom given him) has written you, as also in all his epistles, speaking in them of these things, in which are some things hard to understand, which those who are untaught and unstable twist to their own destruction, as they do also with the rest of scripture."
I suggest that you consider what this passage is saying. We can discuss it whenever you are ready.
Bandit
Posts: 113 | From: Melbourne, Florida | Registered: Jul 2004
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alasdair
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posted
quote:
Originally posted by Favor Minded:
Your misinterpretation of that is somewhat understandable since that is a common misconception however - The Word DOES NOT say a elder / leader is worthy of double pay, it says rather he is worthy of double "honor" -
Yes it does say "honor", but people have interpreted to mean "pay" - it says it in Bible translations. However, the apostles were very keen to get money from people from the very beginning, eg. the story of Ananias and Saphira in Acts - what right did Peter have to demand money from them or from anyone? He should have taught them to give the money that they got for the field to the poor.
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Favor Minded
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Jesus DID NOT teach that everyone was to sell everything they own and follow him - He was giving a lesson about the condition of the heart, not explaining the requirements for Christianity.
Your misinterpretation of that is somewhat understandable since that is a common misconception however - The Word DOES NOT say a elder / leader is worthy of double pay, it says rather he is worthy of double "honor" -
Does the bible also teach that we should "pay" our father and our mother? - Or does it teach we should "honor" them...
Your use of the message and amplified bibles to prove your misinterpretations only lessens the credibility of what you say.
These are NOT God given revelations, but rather ramblings of foolishness which Paul warned about...
Honor IS NOT synonomous with money or pay. Honor was VERY important and Paul was explaining how an elder should act, and how he should live, and what his witness should be to others. He was not providing a means for televangelists to get rich, nor was he referring to "double" paying anyone.
It is possible to honor someone by paying them, but there are MANY MANY ways to honor. The church was about helping each other, about noone going hungry, about noone without a bed, etc -
These were some of the points most critical to establishing the new church, as found in Acts and going forward.
Your attempts to undermine Paul only prove his prophecies to Timothy -
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Matthew 24:36
"No one knows about that day or hour, not even the angels in heaven, nor the Son, but only the Father
Posts: 129 | From: WA | Registered: May 2005
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alasdair
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posted
Jesus says give up what you have and follow him in verses like Luke 14:33, Mark 10:21, Luke 18,22, Matthew 19:21 and Luke 12:33.
Paul says "The elders who do good work as leaders should be considered worthy of receiving double pay, especially those who work hard at preaching and teaching." - 1 Tim 5:17.
Paul also creates church traditions, after Jesus denounced existing teachers of the Law as hypocrites, and identified people wearing fancy clothes as living in palaces (a perfect description of the modern day cathedral).
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saved1948
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I guess you are telling us that the bible has errors and is wrong.You are sadly mistaken.<><
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John 3:16+6\[/p..................For God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son,that whoever believed in Him should not perish but have everlasting life
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TEXASGRANDMA
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posted
alasdair
You are the only false teacher I see here. Paul was not a false teacher. Study Paul's writings and you will see that he is leading us to Christ and not away from Christ.
betty
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Luk 21:28 And when these things begin to come to pass, then look up, and lift up your heads; for your redemption draweth nigh.
http://www.indieheaven.com/artists/mm (son-in-law)http://www.myspace.com/mireles
Posts: 4985 | From: Washington State | Registered: Jan 2003
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alasdair
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posted
quote:
Originally posted by Kindgo:
You are very foolish alasdair
By conventional wisdom, yes I'm very foolish. This is fortunate because Solomon/wisdom (the opposite of foolishness) is 666. Therefore I take that as a compliment.
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Kindgo
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posted
How do you think Satan acts?
Just like you do, spreading a false teaching.
By what mechanism do you think he exerts his influence
You are his mechanism here, right now.
alasdair
You need to repent! Stop this false teaching!
You are very foolish alasdair, please read the Bible and ask the Lord to guide you to the truth.
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God bless,
Kindgo
Inside the will of God there is no failure. Outside the will of God there is no success.
Posts: 4320 | From: Sunny Florida | Registered: Jun 2002
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alasdair
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posted
How do you think Satan acts? By what mechanism do you think he exerts his influence? Paul does not teach people to follow Jesus, therefore Jesus did not send him. Ananias had a vision (Acts 9:10), much like Paul had a vision. Where do you think the visions came from?
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Good NewsforAll
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posted
quote:
Originally posted by alasdair:
Paul does not teach what Jesus taught. He teaches payment for priests, sets up the church system and treats Jesus as an idol of forgiveness rather than someone who should be followed. He was not an eyewitness of the teachings of Jesus, yet 13 letters were included in the New Testament.
Oh My. ![[Eek!]](eek.gif) That's totally ridiculous. If you know your Bible at all, you would know that Paul was hand-picked by Jesus himself to spread the Good News.
Acts 9: 15 But the Lord said to him, “Go, for he is a chosen vessel of Mine to bear My name before Gentiles, kings, and the children of Israel. 16 For I will show him how many things he must suffer for My name’s sake.”
If you don't believe Paul, you don't believe the Bible. Might as well throw the whole thing out.
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The Pharisees tell us what not to do. Jesus tells us what to do.
Romans 10:15 As it is written, "How beautiful are the feet of those who bring good news!"
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Kindgo
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Paul F. Crouch (born March 29, 1934) is the co-founder, chairman, and president of the Trinity Broadcasting Network (TBN), the world's largest Christian television network.
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God bless,
Kindgo
Inside the will of God there is no failure. Outside the will of God there is no success.
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Thunderz7
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posted
Paul Crouch???
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alasdair
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posted
quote:
Very little of the Word is to be found on your website Alasdair
It is actually - but you can't look at the Word in isolation. You have to apply it to eveyday life. In eveyday life I see people in fancy clothes in cathedrals (palaces) getting paid to quote Gospel scripture. Doesn't that strike you as being very obviously against what Jesus taught? And given that it is - why has it happened, who is responsible? And when you trace it back to the source, you find Paul.
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WKUHilltopper
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posted
quote:
Originally posted by EL3LN3TN:
...when you say Paul "IS" a false teacher - you mean that Paul (Crouch) guy from the TBN network, right?? ![[pound]](graemlins/pound.gif)
LOLOLOL
Posts: 259 | From: KY | Registered: Feb 2006
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Caretaker
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posted
Only through Jesus is there salvation, for He is the Way, the Truth and the Life.
Romans 10:
9: That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved.
10: For with the heart man believeth unto righteousness; and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation.
11: For the scripture saith, Whosoever believeth on him shall not be ashamed.
12: For there is no difference between the Jew and the Greek: for the same Lord over all is rich unto all that call upon him.
13: For whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved.
Any extra-Biblical knowledge which teaches contrary to the Word is false teaching.
Jesus is returning Alasdair, and He will rule with His saints.
Rev. 1:
5: And from Jesus Christ, who is the faithful witness, and the first begotten of the dead, and the prince of the kings of the earth. Unto him that loved us, and washed us from our sins in his own blood,
6: And hath made us kings and priests unto God and his Father; to him be glory and dominion for ever and ever. Amen.
7: Behold, he cometh with clouds; and every eye shall see him, and they also which pierced him: and all kindreds of the earth shall wail because of him. Even so, Amen.
Acts 1:
9: And when he had spoken these things, while they beheld, he was taken up; and a cloud received him out of their sight.
10: And while they looked stedfastly toward heaven as he went up, behold, two men stood by them in white apparel;
11: Which also said, Ye men of Galilee, why stand ye gazing up into heaven? this same Jesus, which is taken up from you into heaven, shall so come in like manner as ye have seen him go into heaven.
Rev. 20:
4: And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years.
5: But the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished. This is the first resurrection.
6: Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years.
Very little of the Word is to be found on your website Alasdair, and a majority of your personal interpretation of the world, and a manipulation of worldly names to misinterpret eschatology.
The Word of God is what is Truth Alasdair, not private interpretations of man.
What you teach is contrary to the Word of God, Alasdair.
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A Servant of Christ,
Drew
1 Tim. 3:
16: And without controversy great is the mystery of godliness: God was manifest in the flesh..
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Bandit
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posted
Here we go ... again!
Posts: 113 | From: Melbourne, Florida | Registered: Jul 2004
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EL3LN3TN
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posted
I hear the sound of a great Cosmic Toilet flushing... <GWOOSH!!!...splally-ally-ally-ally....>
...when you say Paul "IS" a false teacher - you mean that Paul (Crouch) guy from the TBN network, right??
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Kindgo
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Wow, thanks for tellin us!
I guess someone made a BIG mistake... ![[Roll Eyes]](rolleyes.gif)
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God bless,
Kindgo
Inside the will of God there is no failure. Outside the will of God there is no success.
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alasdair
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Paul does not teach what Jesus taught. He teaches payment for priests, sets up the church system and treats Jesus as an idol of forgiveness rather than someone who should be followed. He was not an eyewitness of the teachings of Jesus, yet 13 letters were included in the New Testament.
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