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Author
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Topic: Neo-Pythagorean Gnostic Church
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Good NewsforAll
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posted
Some religions can incorporate TM into their ceremonies, but TM is not a religion in itself. Some use it daily in personal meditation, even if they may not have any religious connotation.
quote:
Originally posted by EL3LN3TN :Note: If I could suggest a slightly updated slant on your claim I'd suggest your Id is seeking transcendental communion with your SuperEgo
I guess you have missed totally what I have said -
" I have yet to met a Christian who can boast that they have arrived.
We have to grow in grace.
We have to die daily.
Above all, God requires humility.
We have to be emptied of ourselves.
We have to uproot old junk.
In our weakness and by becoming completely humbled and totally dependant on Him.
I want him to spiritually cleanse me from within. "
All of the above actions require us to search ourselves from within.
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The Pharisees tell us what not to do. Jesus tells us what to do.
Romans 10:15 As it is written, "How beautiful are the feet of those who bring good news!"
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EL3LN3TN
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Yep. I'm aware of it.
Really, TM <IS> religion-affiliated, it's based on Hindu teachings and really is'nt considered a part of Western Gnostic tradition, altho there's probably some similar practices among Gurdjieffian schools, but I think there's an emphasis on dance or calisthenic movements w/ these ![[Wink]](wink.gif)
Funny, but I kind of associate TM w/ being a minor pop-culture fad from the 60's & 70's more than anything. ![[Big Grin]](biggrin.gif)
So then:
quote:
When I go before God,
Ok, so there is your transcendentally-oriented prayer, or meditation state. go on...
quote:
I want him to show me where I have gone wrong, and spiritually cleanse me from within. Also, the Bible says we are not to practice vain repetitions, which really aren't heartfelt prayers.
Ok, so I glean from this, that you have a specific, willful goal, purpose or request in your prayer/meditation. No problem.
I also see that you seem to prefer a negative, or punitive slant, to your desired result, and wish to achieve transcendence thru a cleansing process.
As far as "vain repititions", well I'd have to disagree they can be heartfelt, but were apparently discouraged in the early Hebrew tradition.
Note: If I could suggest a slightly updated slant on your claim I'd suggest your Id is seeking transcendental communion with your SuperEgo
I hate "definition wars", personally ![[Razz]](tongue.gif) but I just thought I'd paste the following:
Tran-scen-den-tal-ism / Pronunciation Key - Show Spelled Pronunciation[tran-sen-den-tl-iz-uhm, -suhn-] Pronunciation Key
–noun
1.)transcendental character, thought, or language.
2.)Also called transcendental philosophy. any philosophy based upon the doctrine that the principles of reality are to be discovered by the study of the processes of thought* or a philosophy emphasizing the intuitive and spiritual above the empirical: in the U.S., associated with Emerson.
*sounds rather “inward” (imho)
tran·scen·den·tal·ism
1. A literary and philosophical movement, associated with Ralph Waldo Emerson and Margaret Fuller, asserting the existence of an ideal spiritual reality that transcends the empirical and scientific and is knowable through intuition.
2. The quality or state of being transcendental.
Tran-scen-den-tal
–adjective
1.transcendent, surpassing, or superior.
2.being beyond ordinary or common experience, thought, or belief; supernatural.*
3.abstract or metaphysical.
4.idealistic, lofty, or extravagant.
5.Philosophy.
a.beyond the contingent and accidental in human experience, but not beyond all human knowledge. Compare transcendent (def. 4b).
b.pertaining to certain theories, etc., explaining what is objective as the contribution of the mind.
c.Kantianism. of, pertaining to, based upon, or concerned with a priori elements in experience, which condition human knowledge. Compare transcendent (def. 4b).
*easily fits in with a good bit of traditional Christianity.
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Good NewsforAll
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Transcendental meditation is a mood altering practice which is supposed to lift you into a different state of consciousness. It is not considered to be a religion.
It uses a mantra of repeating a specific sound, or could involve the use of concentrating on a beautiful sunset, or whatever.
When I go before God, I want him to show me where I have gone wrong, and spiritually cleanse me from within. Also, the Bible says we are not to practice vain repetitions, which really aren't heartfelt prayers.
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The Pharisees tell us what not to do. Jesus tells us what to do.
Romans 10:15 As it is written, "How beautiful are the feet of those who bring good news!"
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EL3LN3TN
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hmm....might be getting in a little over your head here, maybe not.
What, or where exactly is the "in" and "out" you're referring to?
"and the Holy Spirit works from within,..."
Well, "from within" could also be moving, or operating "outward".
"transcending is an outward action....Holy Spirit works from within"
![[spiny]](graemlins/spiny.gif) ...I think we really need some orientation w/ this...
The "outward action" of transcendence is a literal physical act(?) or accomplishes physical "work"?? Is that what you're meaning?
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Good NewsforAll
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quote:
Originally posted by EL3LN3TN:
quote:
Originally posted by Good NewsforAll:
Transcend means to exist apart and above the material world. Dying to ourselves means to look inwardly and uproot all of the old junk with the help of the Holy Spirit, scriptures and prayer.
...in order to exist apart, and above (the appetites and distractions) of the material world. ![[cool_shades]](graemlins/cool_shades.gif)
I'm thinkin' we're both plowing the same field.
Keeing in mind that transcending is an outward action, and the Holy Spirit works from within, it is very different.
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The Pharisees tell us what not to do. Jesus tells us what to do.
Romans 10:15 As it is written, "How beautiful are the feet of those who bring good news!"
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EL3LN3TN
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quote:
Originally posted by Good NewsforAll:
Transcend means to exist apart and above the material world. Dying to ourselves means to look inwardly and uproot all of the old junk with the help of the Holy Spirit, scriptures and prayer.
...in order to exist apart, and above (the appetites and distractions) of the material world.
I'm thinkin' we're both plowing the same field.
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Good NewsforAll
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quote:
Originally posted by Good NewsforAll:
He desires us to be thoroughly emptied of ourselves. We must learn sooner, rather than later, that "apart from Me you can do nothing" (John 15:5b). Nothing!....and by becoming completely humbled and totally dependant on Him, He becomes our strength. All praise and glory goes to God because we know we can do nothing in our own strength.
quote:
Originally posted by EL3LN3TN:
CertainlyTo paraphrase your own words and citation....we must...transcend ![[Cool]](cool.gif)
Exactly.
Transcend means to exist apart and above the material world. Dying to ourselves means to look inwardly and uproot all of the old junk with the help of the Holy Spirit, scriptures and prayer.
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The Pharisees tell us what not to do. Jesus tells us what to do.
Romans 10:15 As it is written, "How beautiful are the feet of those who bring good news!"
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EL3LN3TN
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Certainly.
quote:
He desires us to be thoroughly emptied of ourselves. We must learn sooner, rather than later, that "apart from Me you can do nothing" (John 15:5b). Nothing!....and by becoming completely humbled and totally dependant on Him, He becomes our strength. All praise and glory goes to God because we know we can do nothing in our own strength.
To paraphrase your own words and citation....we must...transcend
Exactly.
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Good NewsforAll
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Above all else, God requires humility from a true believer. He desires us to be thoroughly emptied of ourselves. We must learn sooner, rather than later, that "apart from Me you can do nothing" (John 15:5b). Nothing!
But it is human nature to try and do it ourselves, and live righteous lives on our own. This human nature is the flesh. In our weakness and by becoming completely humbled and totally dependant on Him, He becomes our strength. All praise and glory goes to God because we know we can do nothing in our own strength.
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The Pharisees tell us what not to do. Jesus tells us what to do.
Romans 10:15 As it is written, "How beautiful are the feet of those who bring good news!"
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EL3LN3TN
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quote:
Originally posted by Good NewsforAll:
quote:
Originally posted by EL3LN3TN:
I mean: "All born-again Christians are well aware that they have to die daily to the flesh and things of this world,..."...that is heavily transcendental-istic in a nutshell.
I gather that you are not a Bible belever, so therefore are having a difficult time understanding the meaning of it.
OK..well...what is a "Bible belever" ??
Does this have anything to do with leverage, I might be interested, and no I'm not seeming to have any difficulty understanding this, but if you feel you have anything enlightening to offer, feel free to do so. ![[Smile]](smile.gif)
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Good NewsforAll
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posted
quote:
Originally posted by EL3LN3TN:
I mean: "All born-again Christians are well aware that they have to die daily to the flesh and things of this world,..."...that is heavily transcendental-istic in a nutshell.
I gather that you are not a Bible belever, so therefore are having a difficult time understanding the meaning of it.
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The Pharisees tell us what not to do. Jesus tells us what to do.
Romans 10:15 As it is written, "How beautiful are the feet of those who bring good news!"
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EL3LN3TN
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quote:
Originally posted by Good NewsforAll:
quote:
Originally posted by EL3LN3TN:
[qb] I'd have to disagree totally - the entire "maturing" process referred to is one of transcendence or transcending - likewise the concept of "dying daily" which almost sounds like a daily Gnostic ritual.
No it is biblical. All born-again Christians are well aware that they have to die daily to the flesh and things of this world, just as Jesus died on the cross for us.
Sure! No problem - I don't doubt that it's "biblical", but by function has a strong implication of daily ritual, or symbolic, initiatory "death" (transcendence anyone?), which is easy to construe a bit of gnostic flavor in this ...I mean let's hope that's your intent - not some morbid self-destructive impulse, bad choices, or suicidal longing.
I mean: "All born-again Christians are well aware that they have to die daily to the flesh and things of this world,..."...that is heavily transcendental-istic in a nutshell.
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Good NewsforAll
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quote:
Originally posted by EL3LN3TN:
I'd have to disagree totally - the entire "maturing" process referred to is one of transcendence or transcending - likewise the concept of "dying daily" which almost sounds like a daily Gnostic ritual.
No it is biblical. All born-again Christians are well aware that they have to die daily to the flesh and things of this world, just as Jesus died on the cross for us.
1 Corinthians 15:31
I protest by your rejoicing which I have in Christ Jesus our Lord, I die daily.
Matthew 26: 33Peter answered and said unto him, Though all men shall be offended because of thee, yet will I never be offended.
34Jesus said unto him, Verily I say unto thee, That this night, before the **** crow, thou shalt deny me thrice.
35Peter said unto him, Though I should die with thee, yet will I not deny thee. Likewise also said all the disciples.
Peter didn't mean that he was literally going to the grave with Jesus.
John 8:21 Then said Jesus again unto them, I go my way, and ye shall seek me, and shall die in your sins: whither I go, ye cannot come.
Romans 14:8For whether we live, we live unto the Lord; and whether we die, we die unto the Lord: whether we live therefore, or die, we are the Lord's.
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The Pharisees tell us what not to do. Jesus tells us what to do.
Romans 10:15 As it is written, "How beautiful are the feet of those who bring good news!"
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EL3LN3TN
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quote:
Originally posted by Good NewsforAll:
[QB] Looking at the proper context of 1 Cor. 13:
9 For we know in part, and we prophesy in part.
10 But when that which is perfect is come, then that which is in part shall be done away.
11 When I was a child, I spake as a child, I understood as a child, I thought as a child: but when I became a man, I put away childish things.
As we mature, knowledge will free us from confusion, and the perfection of heaven will remove us from that cloud of darkness of misunderstanding. Nothing about transcendental experiences in that passage of scripture.
![[Eek!]](eek.gif) I'd have to disagree totally - the entire "maturing" process referred to is one of transcendence or transcending - likewise the concept of "dying daily" which almost sounds like a daily Gnostic ritual.
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Good NewsforAll
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quote:
Originally posted by WildB:
"As we mature"
LOL stop your sillyness.......lol
If we are told that we must die daily, I have yet to meet a Christian who can boast that they "have arrived."
2 Thessalonians 1:3
3We ought always to thank God for you, brothers, and rightly so, because your faith is growing more and more, and the love every one of you has for each other is increasing.
2 Peter 3:18
But grow in grace, and in the knowledge of our Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ. To him be glory both now and for ever. Amen.
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The Pharisees tell us what not to do. Jesus tells us what to do.
Romans 10:15 As it is written, "How beautiful are the feet of those who bring good news!"
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EL3LN3TN
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quote:
Originally posted by WildB:
Transcendental experience is not a Biblical truth practiced in the age of Grace..
So then, this would include all manner of ecstatic worship practiced by Pentacostalists, falling down, speaking in tongues etc.
But this also seems to stumble upon the notion:
...but is'nt the act of "coming to the knowledge of Christ as one's personal savior/ entering into a 'personal relationship' and 'asking him to live in one's heart'" etc
....that itself is a "transcendental" experience, no?? ![[Confused]](confused.gif)
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WildB
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"As we mature"
LOL stop your sillyness.......lol
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That is all.....
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Good NewsforAll
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Looking at the proper context of 1 Cor. 13:
9 For we know in part, and we prophesy in part.
10 But when that which is perfect is come, then that which is in part shall be done away.
11 When I was a child, I spake as a child, I understood as a child, I thought as a child: but when I became a man, I put away childish things.
As we mature, knowledge will free us from confusion, and the perfection of heaven will remove us from that cloud of darkness of misunderstanding. Nothing about transcendental experiences in that passage of scripture.
--------------------
The Pharisees tell us what not to do. Jesus tells us what to do.
Romans 10:15 As it is written, "How beautiful are the feet of those who bring good news!"
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WildB
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Transcendental experience is not a Biblical truth practiced in the age of Grace..
Bible, King James Version
1 match.
1Cor.13
[10] But when that which is perfect is come, then that which is in part shall be done away.
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That is all.....
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Good NewsforAll
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quote:
Originally posted by WildB:
Transcendental experience is not a Biblical truth ..
Numbers 24: 1 And when Balaam saw that it pleased the LORD to bless Israel, he went not, as at other times, to seek for enchantments, but he set his face toward the wilderness.
2 And Balaam lifted up his eyes, and he saw Israel abiding in his tents according to their tribes; and the spirit of God came upon him.
3And he took up his parable, and said, Balaam the son of Beor hath said, and the man whose eyes are open hath said:
4He hath said, which heard the words of God, which saw the vision of the Almighty, FALLING INTO A TRANCE, but having his eyes open:
Acts 10:9 On the morrow, as they went on their journey, and drew nigh unto the city, Peter went up upon the housetop to pray about the sixth hour:
10 And he became very hungry, and would have eaten: but while they made ready, he fell into a trance,
11And saw heaven opened, and a certain vessel descending upon him, as it had been a great sheet knit at the four corners, and let down to the earth:
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The Pharisees tell us what not to do. Jesus tells us what to do.
Romans 10:15 As it is written, "How beautiful are the feet of those who bring good news!"
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WildB
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Many New Agers regard Gnostic Christianity as the more enlightened form of Neo-Pythagorean Gnostic Church......
Although many Gnostic movements identified with the teachings of Jesus Christ and were Christian by their own definition, there remains widespread variation in the particular religious orientations of many Gnostic groups. Especially notable for their extended and uninterrupted presence up until the modern era are the followers of the Persian Prophet Mani, the Manicheans; and the Pre-Christian Mandaeans who still survive in Iraq and Iran.
Repent while the day is yet called day.
Transcendental experience is not a Biblical truth practiced in the age of Grace..
Bible, King James Version
1 match.
1Cor.13
[10] But when that which is perfect is come, then that which is in part shall be done away.
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That is all.....
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