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Topic: FUN!
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becauseHElives
Advanced Member
Member # 87
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posted
quote:
"Our true character is shown by our conduct.
Eden here:
No, our true character is shown by whether we accept the offer of God or not.
Please show scripture for your conclusion of definition of true character of Christian
quote:
becauseHElives said....
"Dear children, do not let anyone lead you astray. He who does what is right is righteous, just as He is righteous. He who does what is sinful is of the devil, because the devil has been sinning from the beginning." 1 John 3:7-9
Our true character is shown by our conduct. If it was true that we could continue to live as sinners and still be classified as righteous, John could not make this distinction. True conversion not only is intelligent but dramatically effects' our lifestyle.
Romans 6:18-23 says….
Being then made free from sin, ye became the servants of righteousness.
I speak after the manner of men because of the infirmity of your flesh: for as ye have yielded your members servants to uncleanness and to iniquity unto iniquity; even so now yield your members servants to righteousness unto holiness.
For when ye were the servants of sin, ye were free from righteousness.
What fruit had ye then in those things whereof ye are now ashamed? for the end of those things [is] death.
But now being made free from sin, and become servants to God, ye have your fruit unto holiness, and the end everlasting life.
For the wages of sin [is] death; but the gift of God [is] eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord.
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Strive to enter in at the strait gate:for many, I say unto you will seek to enter in, and shall not be able. ( Luke 13:24 )
Posts: 4578 | From: Southeast Texas | Registered: Jun 2002
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Eden
unregistered
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posted
dear becauseHElives.
You said:
"Our true character is shown by our conduct.
Eden here:
No, our true character is shown by whether we accept the offer of God or not. Because when I believe in Jesus's death as dying in my place, then MY righteousness is not even going to be called into question at the Judgment Seat.
Though I might have obtained some fairly good level of conduct for a naturally-born sinner, yet God will not even look at my righteousness if I accept God's offer of the death of Jesus for my death.
Conduct is good, yes. The 10 commandments are holy and truth. But to what extent any one Jesus-accepting Christian attains to any of these Godly standards depends a lot on how we were raised, in a dysfunctional family or in a fairly Godly family, makes a lot of difference.
But all have the Holy Spirit to counsel them, if they choose to listen closely to the Holy Spirit.
But here is what I think you are getting at, too, you are exhorting people to LISTEN to the Holy Spirit, and to READ the Word, that they may be more washed than they were before, that is for sure. But their salvation is only dependent on telling God that I accept Jesus's death for my death, so that I don't have to die and will be kept alive at His second coming.
A holier life, a more set-apart unto activities of God life, is hopefully the result of having access to the Holy Spirit again; but it is not salvation.
becauseHElives, you also said:
If it was true that we could continue to live as sinners and still be classified as righteous, John could not make this distinction. True conversion not only is intelligent but dramatically effects' our lifestyle.
Eden here:
I think each Christian has to work this sinner nature and this more righteous conduct out for themselves. Some succeed better at it than other Christians.
The main thing is that the Holy Spirit counsel is now avaiable to them and the washing of the Word of God, and prayer, but they are not availing themselves of His counsel and good Word and prayer.
This is what we would all like to see, isn't it, an onfire Christian life in everybody? But that's not the way it is; Paul already acknowledged a large carnal Christian segment in the church; the majority probably. But I do think they are saved if they actively believe in Jesus's death for their death: "the soul that sins, it shall die."
Be blessed, everyone.
Eden
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becauseHElives
Advanced Member
Member # 87
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posted
Hey Eden, I think your answer is right on in overall message but……
quote:
you said
Because Jesus died for my sins, I don’t have to die for my sins anymore because Jesus already paid the penalty of death FOR me and I am now free from the commandment and will be kept alive.
I am now free from the commandment and will be kept alive.
Should read …I am now free from the law of sin and death…
The child of Yahweh is not free to sin but freed from sin, there is a big difference.
quote:
you said…
But a sinner is only covered by the offer from God AS LONG AS the sinner CONTINUES TO ACTIVELY BELIEVE AND ACCEPT that offer from God.
I agree 100% with this statement; it keeps in harmony with all the scriptures.
quote:
But salvation IS contingent upon a "continual faith" in that offer;…
First Peter 2:24 says of Christ, "He himself bore our sins in his body on the tree, so that we might die to sins and live for righteousness ; by his wounds you have been healed."
Much to the dismay of those who try to make themselves a license for sin, the Bible says that we are to be practically righteous, not practically sinners.
"Dear children, do not let anyone lead you astray. He who does what is right is righteous, just as He is righteous. He who does what is sinful is of the devil, because the devil has been sinning from the beginning." 1 John 3:7-9
Our true character is shown by our conduct. If it was true that we could continue to live as sinners and still be classified as righteous, John could not make this distinction. True conversion not only is intelligent but dramatically effects' our lifestyle.
The word translated right is the same root word as righteous and is the same righteousness imputed to believers in Romans three and four, real practical righteousness. Some will insist that the gospel makes no provision for making us righteous, but as we see in this passage there is a clear connection. A connection that insists that one is useless without the other.
Some ministers will go so far as to leave you with the impression that the only practical difference between a Christian and an unbeliever is a set of purely intellectual or emotional issues. This is a grave error. The scripture is plain: your conduct reveals whether you're righteous or of the devil. I'm not saying you have to work to receive Christ's righteousness. I am saying that someone who has received Christ's righteousness will live as a child of the light and bear the fruit of righteousness. Though all of us can still sin, the standard we should measure ourselves against is righteousness.
Redemption
The Bible teaches that;
"Christ gave himself for us to redeem us from all wickedness and to purify for himself a people zealous for good works" (Titus 2:14).
In the theology most Christians holds to, Christ's righteousness is not imputed to us in a way that would purify us from all wickedness.
Rather most Christian’s view we can keep much wickedness in our lives, only now God is blind to it. Therefore we can continue living the life of a sinner while being viewed as righteous.
But in most people’s view we can keep much wickedness in our lives, only now God is blind to it. Therefore we can continue living the life of a sinner while being viewed as righteous.
I have heard people say….
"We are positionally accounted as righteous before God because we have transferred to our account all of the righteousness of Christ, so when God looks at us he doesn't see us in the context of our sin, but he sees us in the context of the righteousness of Christ. But practically we still sin and we will till the day we die."
This is truly prostituting the bible, 1 John 3:7-9 would have to be mutilated to fit in with this theology. Wouldn't the Devil laugh to read-He who lives sinfully are righteous even as he is righteous? He who is sinful is practically of the devil, but God cannot see that and sees you as righteous, if you believe this theology, the whole idea is revolting.
"For you were once darkness but now you are light in the Lord Live as children of light for the fruit of the light consists in all goodness righteousness and truth . . . have nothing to do with the fruitless deeds of darkness rather expose them." Ephesians 5 8-12
Instruments of Righteousness
Beyond a doubt the word righteous does imply a title or position, but it is only applicable as related to practice. IE a ruler rules one who does not is not really a ruler. I am not at odds with the statement that we are positionally righteous; I believe it, but we should also be practically righteous. We are told to offer ourselves to God as "Instruments of righteousness" in Rom. 6:13.
If someone says they're born again, and have received Christ's righteousness, he should bear the fruit of a practical righteousness. This is clearly the result of a true work of Christ in the heart. This righteousness was received when we turned from sin and put our faith in Christ.
We received justification through eternal redemption (being set free from sin) Romans 3:24. We entered the new covenant:
"This is the covenant I will make with them after that time say's the Lord. I will put my laws in their hearts, and I will write them on their minds." Hebrews 10:16 (also see Ezekiel 31:33)
While Calvin seemed to have felt content promoting a justification that would remove consequences while only partially changing the heart, God is not. While the blood of goats and bulls only dealt with the external, the blood of Christ does much more.
"The blood of goats and bulls and the ashes of a heifer sprinkled on those who are ceremonially unclean sanctify them so they are outwardly clean. How much more, then, will the blood of Christ, who through the eternal spirit offered himself unblemished to God, cleanse our consciences from acts that lead to death, so that we may serve the living God" Hebrews 9:13-14.
The Scripture makes it clear that, while the old covenant only made provision for outward cleansing, the new covenant in Christ has provided for inward cleansing, that we might live for God.
Did Christ Die in our Place, or Obey in our Place?
When the Bible speaks about the gospel, Christ's vicarious atonement and redemption are central; in contrast, when Once Saved Always Saved speaks about the gospel, the main emphasis is on what they considers Christ's substitutionary obedience.
"He lived the perfect life in our place which we could never live, and he offers it to you (whoever) as an absolutely free gift"
This sounds very nice, but as we examine this idea, you can see the wolf under the sheep's clothing. We both agree that Christ's death was vicarious; but his life is imparted - not substituted - in the sense that you and others understands it (Rom 8:11).
To quote Finney:
"The idea is absurd and impossible for this reason: Jesus Christ was bound to obey the Law for himself. It was his duty to love the Lord his God with all his heart, soul, mind and strength and to love his neighbor as himself. If he had not done so, it would have been sin.
Although Christ owed perfect obedience to the Law himself, and could not therefore obey as our substitute, yet since he perfectly obeyed, he owed no suffering to the Law or to the Divine Government on his own account. He could therefore suffer for us. This is the true basis for the Gospel - not that Christ obeyed for us, but that he died for us. He took the punishment we deserved.
The doctrine of imputed righteousness represents God as requiring:
A) That Christ should render perfect obedience for us
B) That he should die just as if no such obedience had been rendered.
C) That we should repent and obey
Does God exact triple service?"
Why would someone invent such a philosophy as this? The Bible does represent righteousness as being imputed to us, but those who hold to this doctrine seem to want righteousness without redemption. It seems that they have devised an understanding of imputed righteousness that eliminates the need for true repentance. Perhaps this relieves them from a sense of obligation; perhaps this allows them to continue in sin without a deep sense that this is offensive to God. Whatever the reason, in their understanding obedience can be looked at with fondness as a nice ideal, while at the same time be rejected as unnecessary.
It is foolish to say that he obeyed in our place for him to do that he would have to live in our place. This would not make us practically righteous it would make us practically nonexistent, I hope you are getting the picture. The basis for this misunderstanding lies in a principle of responsibility.
If a man named John sent flowers to his wife, though another delivers them he gets the credit, because he is the agent responsible for the act.
If John sends an assassin to kill his wife, both have guilt. In this case John may not have pulled the trigger but he is responsible for the murder because he initiated it.
In the first case the delivery driver acted (obeyed) in his place, In the second case the assassin obeyed in his place. A more biblical example is found when we consider how David arranged for Uriah’s death. This principle is at the basis for the belief that Christ obeyed (Lived his life) in our place. The principle is valid, but only for the person who appointed the act. In the case of our Lord it was the Father who appointed him;
"I have come down from Heaven not to do my will but to do the will of him who sent me" (John 8:38).
In the sense above mentioned the Son acted in his Fathers place. Both roles portray pure virtue, and not one of us can take credit for what they have done. Do I need add more? It is plain that Jesus did not do our will he did the Fathers.
"Our own righteousness, we confess, is "filthy rags," and Jesus said, "Except your righteousness shall exceed the righteousness of the scribes and Pharisees, ye shall in no case enter Into the kingdom of heaven." (Matthew 5:20). We must have the inwrought righteousness of Christ. Not a robe simply, that covers our unrighteousness, leaving us sinful and unholy, but His righteousness imparted to us. "If we confess our sins, He is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness." (1 John 1:9). If all unrighteousness is cleansed away, then certainly there is righteousness in its place. If the atonement of Christ cannot get down as deep as sin has gone, it must be a failure. But who would say that Christ made a failure in His atonement?"
The bottom line is then would be …
Am I a legalist because I want to conquer my flesh because of what Yeshua has done for me?
Am I a legalist because I do not see Grace as a license to sin, but as the power and ability of Yahweh imparted to my heart and the heart of everyone that truly receives Yeshua’s free gift to live the same kind of life Yeshua lived by the power of the Holy Spirit. To be able to obey Yahweh’s Commandments from the heart?
Yahweh's Commandment's
To love Yahweh with all my body, soul and spirit and to love my neighbor as myself.
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Strive to enter in at the strait gate:for many, I say unto you will seek to enter in, and shall not be able. ( Luke 13:24 )
Posts: 4578 | From: Southeast Texas | Registered: Jun 2002
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Eden
unregistered
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posted
Hi, becauseHElives.
_________________________
Originally posted by becauseHElives:
Eden, before I address your last post, answer me a question if you will.
Is the free gift of salvation through the Blood Atonement an exchange of my life for the Life of Yeshua, Yahweh’s only Son?
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Eden here: You say:
Is the free gift of salvation through the Blood Atonement an exchange of my life for the Life of Yeshua, Yahweh’s only Son?
Eden here: No, it is an exchange of Yeshua’s life for my life; you have that reversed.
Does that answer your question?
As I explained before, the penalty for sin is death: “the soul that sins, it shall die”.
God canNOT UNDO this commandment which He sent out, namely, “the soul that sins, it shall die.”
So God ended up in a Pickle because EVERYBODY ENDED UP SINNING. So if God carried out His own commandment, “the soul that sins, it shall die”, then God would have nobody left to make into adopted sons and daughters.
To solve that dilemma, God and Jesus hatched up a scheme that Jesus would die on the cross and God would account the death of Jesus as payment for the penalty of the soul that sins, namely, death.
Because Jesus died for my sins, I don’t have to die for my sins anymore because Jesus already paid the penalty of death FOR me and I am now free from the commandment and will be kept alive.
When Jesus died on the cross, God said to us sinners, “okay, I will make you a deal, if you want to live and NOT die, I offer you the death of MY Son Jesus on the cross so that you don't have to die.”
The sinner who accepts that offer from God and Jesus becomes saved, because he no longer has to pay the penalty of death and thus he shall live.
But a sinner is only covered by the offer from God AS LONG AS the sinner CONTINUES TO ACTIVELY BELIEVE AND ACCEPT that offer from God.
If a person STOPS believing in the offer, maybe after university the sinner thinks it is no longer true or whatever, then that sinner is no longer covered by God's offer and the sinner is back to having to pay the penalty for his sins again and he will have to DIE for his sins because he has taken himself out from under the offer of God, that Jesus died already and that God will have amnesty on all sinners who accept Jesus's death on their behalf.
But salvation IS contingent upon a "continual faith" in that offer; else, the sinner is back "under the law" and has to pay for his own sins again.
_________________________
So, Originally posted by becauseHElives:
Eden, before I address your last post, answer me a question if you will.
Is the free gift of salvation through the Blood Atonement an exchange of my life for the Life of Yeshua, Yahweh’s only Son?
_________________________
Eden here:
Did I answer your question?
Be blessed, everybody.
Eden
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shadowmaker
Advanced Member
Member # 3696
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posted
quote:
Originally posted by becauseHElives:
shadowmaker and freddy please if your are going to quote me, quote me exactly
quote:
You said it yourself right there in your quote. Anything can be used for good or evil, music including.
“music including” was added by you shadowmaker
You need to improve your reading skills
I said inanimate objects could be used for good or evil, depending on their use.
phones, cameras, internet, light bulbs, car, trucks, planes, television, clothes and the list is endless but these are all inanimate objects, it take a person to use it a evil manner to make it evil.
Then starting another thought I said...
Music, literature, art, ect. are what they are, good or evil, depending on the creator/source of the music, literature, art, ect….
There are thing I don’t personally like but can not find scriptural reasons to disqualify them from Christian life.
Rap Music, its source is evil. Everything about it is fleshly, appeals to the carnal nature of mankind, the low nature of mankind. Rap Music has no redeemable qualities.
I said I had no use for them, and that those that do enjoy sports should be careful not to give their hearts to sports.
But let us discuss sports a little, the game itself is no more or less than just a waste of time. But consider the lewd behavior displayed by all but naked girls jumping on the sidelines. I do not need to expose myself as a child of Holy God and Father of eternity to that kind of behavior.
But then I consider the Holy One that abides in me.
I consider the scriptures that warn the child of Yahweh not to grieve the Holy Spirit.
Do you think it legalistic to desire to be like Yeshua?
Do you think modesty is important in the child of Yahweh’s life?
Do you think purity is important in the child of Yahweh’s life?
What is repentance as the scriptures teach repentance?
No I need to improve my TYPING skills, it was suppose to say, "music included", not "including". Music can be used as both good and evil.
What is modesty? Just plain clothes? Gold? Now remember, the dress code of today is no where near what it was then. A sheet of cloth with a piece of rope was pretty common. It also says not to mix types of fabic, which we all wear. As far as the cheerleaders, I agree and disagree, need to think more on that, so I ll just stay off that topic for now.
Just like the goatee. Where does it say I cant have one and that its evil? Can a preacher have a beard?
Rules and regulations like these are turning and keep people from going to church. Like it or not, but its true. "we dont like it, we cant show you where its at in the Bible, but its there and you shouldnt do it." If I wasnt saved and you told me my goatee was evil, I would tell you to take a hike if you were witnessing to me. Now show me a scripture and thats different. I ve given up alot of things that I didnt realize were wrong until after I read it for myself.
Posts: 272 | Registered: Jul 2004
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becauseHElives
Advanced Member
Member # 87
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posted
quote:
must reflect Christian principles...
How legalistic…
I hope you can see me smiling Linda
How original, a Christian acting like Christ
Great post
![[thumbsup2]](graemlins/thumbsup2.gif)
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Strive to enter in at the strait gate:for many, I say unto you will seek to enter in, and shall not be able. ( Luke 13:24 )
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helpforhomeschoolers
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Member # 15
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posted
Yesterday, I was driving and listening to the Radio and Kroll was talking about how "Christian" which is a noun has come to be an adjective and we say things like "Christian" music, when really people are "Christian" it means a follower of Christ. A disciple of Christ is a Christian. He was saying that he did not like that "Christian" has become an adjective. He went on to say that if we were going to use Christian as an adjective, then we should be sure that the noun that it is applied to reflects the principles that Christ taught and he was speaking of for example... "Christian Businessman" what is a Christain business man? He said I would prefer to say a Christian in business, but if I am going to call myself a "Christian Business man" then my business practices ALL of them, must reflect Christian principles... that would mean for example forgoing the bottom line in cases where there was a question between looking out for the bottom line and looking out for my customer whom I love with the love of Christ, I would make my decisions based on the love of my customer and not regard for my bottom line. He spoke also of "Christian Music" and he said if music is to be labeled "Christian Music" then it must have integrity, both musically and with regard to its lyrics.
I wondered what you thought of this. I liked that... "integrity". Does musical integrity go beyond culture or like or dislike? What do you think of Kroll's statement in this regard?
Posts: 4684 | From: Southern Black Hills of South Dakota | Registered: Jun 2002
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BrianGrass1234
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Member # 5845
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posted
quote:
Originally posted by EL3LN3TN:
quote:
Originally posted by BrianGrass1234:
Satan is in the Buckeyes. Satan is in OSU. Satan is in every college. Seeking wordly education. Playing worldly games. We need to tell these heathens and worldly christians to get off the field and on there knees. To get out of school and into the Word. Look at how many are lead into sin by the fun of playing sports and watching them be played. Those of the world practically worship these sports teams. The wold worships knowledge as well se we all better stop going to these schoos of evil and we should stop supporting them.
So we need to end property taxes so we arn't forced into supporting the evil fun of school sports and education.
![[Roll Eyes]](rolleyes.gif) uh...assuming you're serious(?)....My experience has been that hardcore sports addiction is every bit as prevalent in a lot of Christian education environments (colleges, schools, etc....try Oral Roberts U. for example..)...this includes gambling addiction, drug use and them gol'durned cussin' coaches!!! ![[Eek!]](eek.gif) ![[Mad]](mad.gif) as well!
..Let's just say, in my case - been there, done that! ![[Big Grin]](biggrin.gif)
I assume you seem to be leaning in the direction of tax exempt religious institutions??
Actually I was being sarcastic. Well exept for the taxes part. We shouldn't be forced to support something we don't agree with.
Posts: 203 | From: Weed, CA | Registered: Jun 2006
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Itty-Bitty Girl
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Member # 4579
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posted
quote:
Originally posted by becauseHElives:
Rap Music, its source is evil. Everything about it is fleshly, appeals to the carnal nature of mankind, the low nature of mankind. Rap Music has no redeemable qualities.
Exactly, that is why even a Christian Rap song is still rap. There is no redeemable qualities at all... the purpose of it is to appeal to the youth with the gospel, which is supposedly glorifying to God... Well I'm young, and whenever I'm in the battle fighting with the most vile demons, rap is nowhere to help me, rap cannot be found.
Rap actually made things harder for me, I could not think clear listening to it, either it be "Christian" rap or gangsta rap, all I got from it was worldly thoughts and worldly behavior.
I do believe that something that is evil like rap music can be "corrupted" by people who use it to glorify God, but God is not glorified by it at all.
The people who do this are decieved. Good fruit cannot come from a corrupt tree.
Rap music started out evil, so it is evil, and it is to be used for evil. It cannot be corrupted to glorify God, it is completely unsuitable.
It cannot be done.
Posts: 1051 | Registered: Apr 2005
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becauseHElives
Advanced Member
Member # 87
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posted
shadowmaker and freddy please if your are going to quote me, quote me exactly
quote:
You said it yourself right there in your quote. Anything can be used for good or evil, music including.
“music including” was added by you shadowmaker
You need to improve your reading skills
I said inanimate objects could be used for good or evil, depending on their use.
phones, cameras, internet, light bulbs, car, trucks, planes, television, clothes and the list is endless but these are all inanimate objects, it take a person to use it a evil manner to make it evil.
Then starting another thought I said...
Music, literature, art, ect. are what they are, good or evil, depending on the creator/source of the music, literature, art, ect….
There are thing I don’t personally like but can not find scriptural reasons to disqualify them from Christian life.
Rap Music, its source is evil. Everything about it is fleshly, appeals to the carnal nature of mankind, the low nature of mankind. Rap Music has no redeemable qualities.
I said I had no use for them, and that those that do enjoy sports should be careful not to give their hearts to sports.
But let us discuss sports a little, the game itself is no more or less than just a waste of time. But consider the lewd behavior displayed by all but naked girls jumping on the sidelines. I do not need to expose myself as a child of Holy God and Father of eternity to that kind of behavior.
But then I consider the Holy One that abides in me.
I consider the scriptures that warn the child of Yahweh not to grieve the Holy Spirit.
Do you think it legalistic to desire to be like Yeshua?
Do you think modesty is important in the child of Yahweh’s life?
Do you think purity is important in the child of Yahweh’s life?
What is repentance as the scriptures teach repentance?
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Strive to enter in at the strait gate:for many, I say unto you will seek to enter in, and shall not be able. ( Luke 13:24 )
Posts: 4578 | From: Southeast Texas | Registered: Jun 2002
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shadowmaker
Advanced Member
Member # 3696
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posted
quote:
Originally posted by Itty-Bitty Girl:
quote:
Originally posted by shadowmaker:
Been a lot of cults that were supposedly Bible based and the leaders used the Bible, but in the wrong way.
The Word Of Faith cult is evil, but the bible is not and can never be evil. Many corrupt the word of God, the word of God is good and pure but it can be corrupted. You see, people can corrupt a good thing.
They use the bible in a different way than it is intended to be used, by twisting the scriptures like Joel Osteen.
The internet is not evil, the internet has been corrupted. The internet can be corrupted, like other things.
Television is not evil, but it can be corrupted.
The people who corrupt what is wholesome and good are evil, but what is corrupted is not evil.
You re exactly right. And just for the record I wasnt saying the Bible is evil. I was saying when used wrong, it can be used to support evil things. Which brings up another part, read the Bible for yourself and dont take someone else's word that it says or doesnt say something.
Posts: 272 | Registered: Jul 2004
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Itty-Bitty Girl
Advanced Member
Member # 4579
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posted
quote:
Originally posted by shadowmaker:
Been a lot of cults that were supposedly Bible based and the leaders used the Bible, but in the wrong way.
The Word Of Faith cult is evil, but the bible is not and can never be evil. Many corrupt the word of God, the word of God is good and pure but it can be corrupted. You see, people can corrupt a good thing.
They use the bible in a different way than it is intended to be used, by twisting the scriptures like Joel Osteen.
The internet is not evil, the internet has been corrupted. The internet can be corrupted, like other things.
Television is not evil, but it can be corrupted.
The people who corrupt what is wholesome and good are evil, but what is corrupted is not evil.
Posts: 1051 | Registered: Apr 2005
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shadowmaker
Advanced Member
Member # 3696
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posted
quote:
Originally posted by becauseHElives:
Freddy, I did not condemn sports; I said I had no use for them, and that those that do enjoy sports should be careful not to give their hearts to sports.
I am a carpenter by trade, I use tools. Saws, hammers and such.
I see the computer as a tool; it is only good or bad as I use it or any other individual uses it.
Many do use it for evil, I can’t control that.
I can’t control people that use things for evil, phones, cameras, internet, light bulbs, car, trucks, planes, television, clothes and the list is endless but these are all inanimate objects, it take a person to use it a evil manner to make it evil.
Music, literature, art, ect. are what they are, good or evil, depending on the creator/source of the music, literature, art, ect….
Now you re talking in circles. Its ok to justify the things you like to do but if you dont like them, its worldly.
You said it yourself right there in your quote. Anything can be used for good or evil, music including.
If youre using a phone, car, internet, watch tv,electricity, microwaves, and the list goes on and on, you re involved in worldly things. So you are part of the world, by your definition not mine.
Now the internet has to be one of the biggest tools used by the devil out there right now. Porn, child molesters, affairs, murders, etc etc are at a record high bc of the use of the internet. If I had to classify something as evil, it would be the internet. Theres not much you can find on the internet that you cant find in a library as far as carpenter work goes. So, since the internet is evil why are you using it?
My point is youre very legalistic and you ve admitted that. What you like or enjoy, its ok, things you dont like its of the world and we shouldnt take part in it. Then when we disagree, you attack our faith. Everything if used in the wrong way, including the Bible, can be evil. Been a lot of cults that were supposedly Bible based and the leaders used the Bible, but in the wrong way.
Posts: 272 | Registered: Jul 2004
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EL3LN3TN
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quote:
Originally posted by BrianGrass1234:
Satan is in the Buckeyes. Satan is in OSU. Satan is in every college. Seeking wordly education. Playing worldly games. We need to tell these heathens and worldly christians to get off the field and on there knees. To get out of school and into the Word. Look at how many are lead into sin by the fun of playing sports and watching them be played. Those of the world practically worship these sports teams. The wold worships knowledge as well se we all better stop going to these schoos of evil and we should stop supporting them.
So we need to end property taxes so we arn't forced into supporting the evil fun of school sports and education.
uh...assuming you're serious(?)....My experience has been that hardcore sports addiction is every bit as prevalent in a lot of Christian education environments (colleges, schools, etc....try Oral Roberts U. for example..)...this includes gambling addiction, drug use and them gol'durned cussin' coaches!!! as well!
..Let's just say, in my case - been there, done that!
I assume you seem to be leaning in the direction of tax exempt religious institutions??
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becauseHElives
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posted
Freddy, I did not condemn sports; I said I had no use for them, and that those that do enjoy sports should be careful not to give their hearts to sports.
I am a carpenter by trade, I use tools. Saws, hammers and such.
I see the computer as a tool; it is only good or bad as I use it or any other individual uses it.
Many do use it for evil, I can’t control that.
I can’t control people that use things for evil, phones, cameras, internet, light bulbs, car, trucks, planes, television, clothes and the list is endless but these are all inanimate objects, it take a person to use it a evil manner to make it evil.
Music, literature, art, ect. are what they are, good or evil, depending on the creator/source of the music, literature, art, ect….
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Strive to enter in at the strait gate:for many, I say unto you will seek to enter in, and shall not be able. ( Luke 13:24 )
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freddy05
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I've been away from the Internet for awhile so I haven't responded.....
BecauseHeLives - You still haven't answered the question I had for you in the original post.
You have condemned sports in this post, rap in the rap thread, and many other "things of this world".
I am really curious to know how you justify using the Internet?
The Internet is steeped in evil. Money making schemes? Lies! And the Internet is full of them. Or gambling. Ever met a kid (or adult) who is so addicted to gaming on the Internet that they spend literally hours every day playing violent games? Or porn? Depending on the source, it looks like something about 20% of web traffic is porn. Spam mail. Much of is innocent sounding, but many of those are promoting illegal activities. Be it illegal sales of meds, or again porn and gambling. Trade copyrighted materials for free (and illegally!), all yours on the Internet. Identity theft. Computer hijacking, spyware, viruses, all based in lies, theft, and deception. All of the most vile rap songs available are a few clicks away. Need I go on?
However, thanks to porn, gambling, and trading copyrighted materials illegally, the Internet companies have upgraded their infastructure faster than they would have without it! In other words, your Internet experience may be BETTER because of the sins of others!
Have a nice web filter to protect your kids? Now days a 13 year old with a bit above average computer intelligence can disable those without the password, and re-enable it without you knowing. (not saying its a bad idea to have one, but don't let it give you a false sense of security)
You want something worldly BecauseHeLives? Take a look in front of you RIGHT NOW. You are on the Internet. Something steeped in evil. Something that has destroyed marriages. Something that has been a stumbling block for millions. The means of terrorist communication. The preferred method of pedophiles. And simply by using it, you support it.
I am curious how you justify your use of it? Based on your responses to other issues, your Internet use appears very hypocritical, and I want to hear your rationale.
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becauseHElives
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Eden, before I address your last post, answer me a question if you will.
Is the free gift of salvation through the Blood Atonement an exchange of my life for the Life of Yeshua, Yahweh’s only Son?
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Strive to enter in at the strait gate:for many, I say unto you will seek to enter in, and shall not be able. ( Luke 13:24 )
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Eden
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Hi, becauseHElives, I liked that very last post of yours that Itty-Bitty Girl also quoted. I do agree that total baptism into God is the way to go.
To the extent that I'm still attached to worldly things, to that extent that God look down from heaven and see that I am still attached in that area.
Human beings have many attachments to the natural world; after all, from dust we came, but not to dust shall we go (if we are Christian).
But to every man and woman their severally ability to let go of this or that of the world.
Take for instance music, which is just one area to be attached to the world still in.
What is God to think, for instance, when He hears me listen to the devil's music?
Any music is devil's music which does not: (1) praise God in some way; and (2) which is not written and sung by a bornagain Christian.
So when we listen to any song which sings about earthly things like, "hey baby, you are so handsome" and all that kind of stuff, if God sees that I still listen to that kind of music and like it, then God sees that in that area I am still worshipping Satan, and not Him.
It is not that my salvation depends on which things of Satan I am able to stop participating in, because my salvation is only secured by Jesus having died already for my sins so that I don't have to die for my sins. Therefore I can go free.
But the less I immerse myself into worldly things, and the more I immerse myself in the things of God, the more I will get out of God and out of life even in this life:
John 10:10
The thief cometh not, but for to steal, and to kill, and to destroy: I am come that they might have life, and that they might have it more abundantly.
Mark 10:30
But he shall receive an hundredfold now in this time, houses, and brethren, and sisters, and mothers, and children, and lands, with persecutions; and in the world to come eternal life.
So becauseHElives, I liked that last post of yours that Itty-Bitty Girl also quoted. The more I immerse myself in God, the better everything should go (altough God could ask me to do something for Him that could lead to danger and unpleasantness).
But here is my beef with you, becauseHElives. Often you seem to intimate that people's salvation is at stake "unless" they "shape up".
And that's where you come across legalistic because then you are basically saying that our salvation depends upon our "own" self-righteous again, which is basically "putting us back under the law again" and if that is the case, there was no need for Jesus to die on the cross.
Anyone who accepts Jesus as the Substitute for their sins is saved, because Jesus already died for the sins of that person, so the person can go free, free, free! That is the love and mercy of God toward us.
Then, okay, with the help of the Holy Spirit and the Word we can hopefully "be washed with the Word" a bit, but when it comes to our salvatin, on that day God will only look at the fact that Jesus already died for me because I accepted that exchange offer from God.
Be blessed.
Eden
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Itty-Bitty Girl
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quote:
Originally posted by becauseHElives:
Hey Itty-Bitty Girl, you are a stranger on earth, if you truly have become a child of Yahweh.
Hebrews 11:13 – "All these died in faith, without receiving the promises, but having seen them and having welcomed them from a distance, and having confessed that they were strangers and exiles on the earth."
I was serious and not serious at the same time.
A ball game, is just that a game, but does it have your heart...???
I personally have no use for sports; I wouldn’t walk in the back yard to watch the greatest teams around. To me it is a total waste of time.
But I can say if a sport has your heart you had better watch out.
Over what do you get more excited…
Spending time in the word, praying, witnessing, listening to a good sermon
Or
Spending time watching a ball game
Knowledge, without fear of Yahweh is a terrible thing.
Public education is a breeding ground to produce godless heathens.
State Colleges/Universities are worse.
And
Most Christian Colleges/Universities are no better.
Seminaries have become Cemeteries, destroying what small degree of faith young people have when they arrive there..
Hmmm. Very interesting, I must say that giving up rap has been hard, but I manage good without it. I'm able to think clearer. With that, I'll end up giving more and more things up, being isolated from the world. These dicussions are really a blessing, if not for these dicussions, I would be doing as the world does and calling it gospel.
But now, I'm beginning to be less tolerant of what I allow myself to see and hear. God has been using you, Dale. Thank you, Dale, for your persistence and honesty.
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becauseHElives
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Hey Itty-Bitty Girl, you are a stranger on earth, if you truly have become a child of Yahweh.
Hebrews 11:13 – "All these died in faith, without receiving the promises, but having seen them and having welcomed them from a distance, and having confessed that they were strangers and exiles on the earth."
I was serious and not serious at the same time.
A ball game, is just that a game, but does it have your heart...???
I personally have no use for sports; I wouldn’t walk in the back yard to watch the greatest teams around. To me it is a total waste of time.
But I can say if a sport has your heart you had better watch out.
Over what do you get more excited…
Spending time in the word, praying, witnessing, listening to a good sermon
Or
Spending time watching a ball game
Knowledge, without fear of Yahweh is a terrible thing.
Public education is a breeding ground to produce godless heathens.
State Colleges/Universities are worse.
And
Most Christian Colleges/Universities are no better.
Seminaries have become Cemeteries, destroying what small degree of faith young people have when they arrive there..
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Strive to enter in at the strait gate:for many, I say unto you will seek to enter in, and shall not be able. ( Luke 13:24 )
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Itty-Bitty Girl
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quote:
Originally posted by becauseHElives:
Brian said...
quote:
Satan is in the Buckeyes. Satan is in OSU. Satan is in every college. Seeking worldly education. Playing worldly games. We need to tell these heathens and worldly Christians to get off the field and on there knees. To get out of school and into the Word. Look at how many are lead into sin by the fun of playing sports and watching them be played. Those of the world practically worship these sports teams. The world worships knowledge as well se we all better stop going to these schools of evil and we should stop supporting them.
So we need to end property taxes so we aren’t forced into supporting the evil fun of school sports and education.
Amen Brian,
but its a pipe dream, it will never happen,
Are you serious, Dale? How many more parts of my life do I have to cut out? Seriously, I'm starting to feel like a stranger here on earth.
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becauseHElives
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Brian said...
quote:
Satan is in the Buckeyes. Satan is in OSU. Satan is in every college. Seeking worldly education. Playing worldly games. We need to tell these heathens and worldly Christians to get off the field and on there knees. To get out of school and into the Word. Look at how many are lead into sin by the fun of playing sports and watching them be played. Those of the world practically worship these sports teams. The world worships knowledge as well se we all better stop going to these schools of evil and we should stop supporting them.
So we need to end property taxes so we aren’t forced into supporting the evil fun of school sports and education.
Amen Brian,
but its a pipe dream, it will never happen,
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Strive to enter in at the strait gate:for many, I say unto you will seek to enter in, and shall not be able. ( Luke 13:24 )
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BrianGrass1234
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Satan is in the Buckeyes. Satan is in OSU. Satan is in every college. Seeking wordly education. Playing worldly games. We need to tell these heathens and worldly christians to get off the field and on there knees. To get out of school and into the Word. Look at how many are lead into sin by the fun of playing sports and watching them be played. Those of the world practically worship these sports teams. The wold worships knowledge as well se we all better stop going to these schoos of evil and we should stop supporting them.
So we need to end property taxes so we arn't forced into supporting the evil fun of school sports and education.
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Itty-Bitty Girl
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quote:
Originally posted by David:
quote:
Originally posted by Jazzee:
I think it is starting to get on many peoples nerves. I think this is why Freddy asked the question he did. ![[Frown]](frown.gif)
Hummm.... sounds very familiar. Jesus also got on many peoples nerves and He was also asked many questions because people did not like what He had to say. He has some hard teachings.
Oh, yes... He was killed for doing so.
Life is about living for Jesus not Jesus helping to improve your life so you can have FUN.
Until you come to know Jesus Christ personnaly and not just know what your have heard about him, you will never have any real fun.
Good point, David!
quote:
Originally posted by Aaron:
Go Buckeyes!
![[Cool]](cool.gif)
Aaron
I love OSU, that's my sister's college. Go Buckeyes!
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KnowHim
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Actually that is the point in the below thread:
http://thechristianbbs.com/cgi-bin/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic;f=1;t=004805
John 6:68-69 (NIV)
Simon Peter answered him, “Lord, to whom shall we go? You have the words of eternal life. We believe and know that you are the Holy One of God.”
I believe Peter knew the answer. He had given his entire life over to following Jesus. So much so that there was no place else to turn but to Jesus. Jesus is the ONLY ONE that had the answer to eternal life. So in order to help others we must first and far most give our entire life over to Jesus. This means you are born-again and there is no turning back. You have found the answers to life.
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KnowHim
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quote:
Originally posted by Jazzee:
I think it is starting to get on many peoples nerves. I think this is why Freddy asked the question he did.
Hummm.... sounds very familiar. Jesus also got on many peoples nerves and He was also asked many questions because people did not like what He had to say. He has some hard teachings.
Oh, yes... He was killed for doing so.
Life is about living for Jesus not Jesus helping to improve your life so you can have FUN.
Until you come to know Jesus Christ personnaly and not just know what your have heard about him, you will never have any real fun.
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Video Tracts
Christian Media
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becauseHElives
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quote:
Jazzee
by finding suitable scriptures out of context
Please show me any scriptures I have taken out of context.
quote:
Jazzee
Christianity is ALSO about HUMBLENESS, grace and love.
The first thing you need to do is understand these words as used in scripture …
1.) Humble (teachable) Moses was the most humble man that ever lived. We have a lot to learn from Moses. Moses had been so close to God. He was known for his humility.
"Now the man Moses was very humble, more than any man who was on the face of the earth." (Numbers 12:3)
This intimacy with God came at a great cost.
He chose a path that took him from the palaces of earth to the very throne of God. He couldn't have both. He didn't want both. He chose the greater. He chose God. Moses started high in the Egyptian palace and descended to the desert with God. He exchanged heaven for earth.
Moses chose the straight and narrow path.
You and some others believe a child of Yahweh can enjoy both worlds; I do not share your view.
I maintain the child of Yahweh can not act like or share the same passions and taste as this world.
2.) Grace (Yahweh’s power and ability that enters the heart at the new birth that cause/allows the child of Yahweh to confirm the reality of the New Testament covenant between Yahweh and His Church…
Jer 31:33
But this [shall be] the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel; After those days, saith the LORD, I will put my law in their inward parts, and write it in their hearts; and will be their God, and they shall be my people.
3.) Love (It is the love of Yahweh that compels me to not give up on people that have received wrong teachings about the salvation that come from Yahweh, through the Blood of Yeshua.)
(There are three Greek words which in the English are generally translated by the one word "love.)
First we will define the Greek usages and words as a foundation. Eros, phileo, and agape are the three pre-biblical words for love.
1 Eros is not found in Biblical usage, but it is where the English word "erotic" is derived and has to do with the sensual passions. Eros was "the name of the little demon deity whose image dances on the Valentines of our time. Among the Romans his name was Cupid, the lusty off-spring of the voluptuous goddess, Venus."
The ancient Greeks considered the demon Eros as the central driving force, motivation, all that man is in attitude, ambition and action. The worship of Eros also brought much of the music into the Greek culture and was designed for the temples of fertility to stimulate sensual ecstasy. The dance of modern burlesque was performed by the prostitute priestesses to call the male worshippers to sexual frenzy, whereby they sought to lose themselves from their "dismal daily lives." Male prostitute priests danced the same to call the female worshipper and homosexual worshipper to the same place. Eros was the god of the ancient fertility cults where sexual intercourse was performed between men and women demons.
The second Greek usage, one which we do find in our New Testament, is the word "phileo." Where erotic-love is the demonic lust of the flesh for flesh, phileo-love is the natural affection in all people for the appetite of the senses. Eros is Immoral, so phileo is ammoral. It can be both good and bad, both wicked or right, depending on the moral condition of the lvoers. Such as meant by Paul in Titus 1:15, "Unto the pure all things are pure: but unto them that are defiled and unbelieving is nothing pure; but even their mind and conscience is defiled."
"The chief characteristic of phileo is that its strength is directly related to the desirability of the object of its affection." This is where the 50-50 marriage affairs enter into the scene. This is the deepest affection that an unsaved person can every know. In I John 4:7,8, it tells us, "Beloved, let us love (agape) one another: for love (agape) is of God; and everyone that loveth (agape) is born of God, and knoweth God. He that loveth (agape)Ýnot knoweth not God; for God is love (agape)." There is another kind of love that enters the scene when a person has God (love-agape) in salvation. Therefore, it is an unchangeable fact that phileo-affection is the deepest affection known by the unconverted. It is no wonder God warned against "mixed"Ýmarriages between the saved and the lost. More will be said about this later when discussing agape.
To continue with phileo, it is a very emotional centered affection and affection based upon one being satisfied by the object. Once this satisfactionis gone, so is the phileo. If the object of phileo assumes any attitudes or actions which are displeasing, the phileo disappears in direct proportion to the displeasure. Marriages based on phileo can be very fulfilling, only if both spouses continue to satisfy the pleasures of the other spouse and do not begin to become very critical or negative.
The third Greek word to define, and the one which this book will dwell mostly upon, is "agape," (pronounced ah - gop - ay). As eros is demonic lust or passion, and phileo is the normal human affection of self gratification, agape is the divine nature which only the child of God has access to in this life, through receiving the Holy Spirit in salvation. Agape is, though Lexicons do attempt to define it, beyond all understanding, as it is the very character of the Godhead.
Eros releases are of demonic powers and drags man below the level of beasts. Heraclitus, a citizen of Ephesus, the "weeping Philosopher," declared that the morals of the temple of Artemis (Diana, the Goddess of Fertility) were worse than the filthy beasts. Phileo is released by human responses and may produce acts of nobility or shame, depending on the character of the lover" and his object.
Agape is from God, and God alone. There is no natural agape within any man. Agape, therefore, must be an implanted characteristic if found within any man. Let it be repeated: there isn't any agape ever in any unsaved person, nor can agape be understood by the unsaved. "But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned. (1Corinthians 2:14)." What does agape mean? God defines apage for us in John 3:16 by saying, "For God so loved the world ,that He gave His only . . . " A very simple definition and explanation of agape therefore is, "the giving of oneself." But this is inadequate, because there are lost people who would qualify by this kind of action, if left here with no further explanation.
Agape is eternal, hence never failing, totally independent of the object of its favor. Agape has its own character and is not dependent upon being "pleasured" as with phileo. Agape is an affection which stands in spite of any element of attractiveness, desirability, or even value. It also can even be hated by the object of its affection, without damaging its intensity or character. We learn in Romans 5:8 that God's love extended through our sin nature, without diminishing at all. "But God commendeth His love toward us, in that, while we were yet sinnrs, Christ died for us." Who died in Christ/ We are told in I John 3:16 that God died; "Hereby perceive we the love of God, because He laid down His life for us...."
It is amazing to make note of just some of the attitudes sinners hold toward God and His loving them. Romans 3:11; "...there is none that seeketh after God." No one even wants love, but gets it any way. What love is that love which is of God?
Agape is not held by emotional infatuation or highs, but is a constant as God. How inconsistent many, even professing "Christians" are, in their display of affection toward those to whom they are obligated by God to love; spouse, children, pastor, brethren, etc.
Another good, yet very deep, explanation of agape by God, Himself, is found in Matthew 5:44: "But I say unto you, love (agape) your enemies. Bless them that curse you and do good to them that hate you, and pray for them which despitefully use and persecute you." Only agape love can fulfill the command of this verse and without the divine nature, it could never be accomplished or obeyed. Phileo only loves when loved. Agape can love while being hated.
To compare agape to phileo in a marriage situation is to say that one spouse has that love which will independently be given and given, without regard or reward, without lessening its intensity. Even when mistrated, it will continue. On the other hand, the other spouse, with phileo love, will only perform affectionately as long as spouse number one continues to bring pleassure to their life. Any displeasure can cause their affection to turn off immediately. While one is constant, the other is unpredictable. While one is longsuffering, the other is shortsuffering. While one is a giver, the other is a taker. This generally weakens the saved and God gave commands against the mixed marriage.
Agape is a love which does not wait to be acted upon, because it is active. God is active. He is life and that which is of God is of life. Therefore, divine agape is living love, and active love. Agape acts first and draws the object to action.
To summarize, the three Greek words which separate those issues which are generally associated with love, are eros, phileo and agape. Eros is physical, passion-beyond-normal, demon-activated (associaed with the pornography crowd in the modern culture). Phileo, on the other hand, is the normal human affection toward anything, used by Paul in II Timothy 3:2-4: "For men shall be Phileo-self (lovers of self), covetous, boasters, proud, blasphemers, disobedient to parents, unthankful and unholy. A (no) Phileo, (without natural affection), truce breakers, incontinent, fierce, despisers of those that are good, traitors, heady highminded, Phileo-pleasures (lovers of pleasures) more than Theos-Phileo (lovers of God)." This could be further explained in that we have phileo love towards good we "like." We phileo-love certain car makes, designs, etc. Agape is totally set apart and above these other two displays of emotional affections and its briefest definition is "giving," active giving of one to an object beyond even the realm of life itself. The English word, "charity" occurs in the Word of God and before the modernization of the word, it did quite well define agape. Agape is invisible and is never truly known, except by the action it inspires. "Hereby perceive we the love of God, because he laid down his life for us: and we ought to lay down our lives for the brethren." (1John 3:16). Agape is perceiving by its acting.
I need no defense of my beliefs.
I thank Linda and others for caring.
The scriptures teach modesty, we practice modesty.
The scriptures teach moderation in all things, we practice moderation in all things.
The scripture teach hospitality, we practice hospitality.
The scriptures teach to live a holy life style from the world (holy meaning separate from the world, we practice living a holy separate life style.
The scriptures teach a straight and narrow path, that leads to eternal life, the broad path leads to eternal life too but eternaly in hell.
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Strive to enter in at the strait gate:for many, I say unto you will seek to enter in, and shall not be able. ( Luke 13:24 )
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Jazzee
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posted
no one is judging Dales music or whatever he likes. No one has even suggested that he may be exposed to a false teaching himself. He however judges everybody else that does not think the same way as him, by finding suitable scriptures out of context to bash people in their heads with, while at the same time praising himself and his own righteousness. A, by the way, very UN christian thing to do. Christianity is ALSO about HUMBLENESS,grace and love. Values that are sadly lacking in Dales posts. I think it is starting to get on many peoples nerves. I think this is why Freddy asked the question he did.
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all things are possible for she who believes in the Lord
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Aaron
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Go Buckeyes!
Aaron
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Itty-Bitty Girl
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posted
quote:
Originally posted by helpforhomeschoolers:
You guys amaze me! You sound like heathen! Christian's cant be serious about the WORD, reject the things of the world and enjoy their lives?????? Christianity that is not worldly is just too hard?????? Too many rules????
You have all accused Dale of being judgmental, but what are you? You judge that because he is not interested in the things of this world he has no fun, his life is a drag, a set of regiments? No fun? No joy?
Mt 11:30 For my yoke is easy, and my burden is light.
It is still a YOKE.... but burdensome it is not..not to the born again believer.
How foolish of you all!
Ro 14:17 For the kingdom of God is not meat and drink; but righteousness, and peace, and joy in the Holy Ghost.
If it would steal your fun and your joy to take away all the music, all the movies, all the amusement parks all the entertainment in the world, then your joy is in the wrong things!
I am not saying that Christianity requires this, but I am saying that if tomorrow you found yourself in a dungeon and could not be joyful, then you might ought to check what your joy is in.
And Eduardo, Christianity was not born out of rebellion against Orthodox Judaism. Christianity was born out of the blood of Christ who did not rebell against orthodox judaism, but brought light and truth to the fact that Judaism had become apostate and was not the practices and teachings and WORD of God that was set down in the scriptures, but the traditions of Rabbi's who had added so much of their own opinions to the word that they had corrupted their religion. Jesus did not rebell. Jesus taught the scripture the torah, which pointed to HIM. Rebellion is as the sin of witchcraft and Jesus was not rebellious. Jesus opposed talmudic judaism which was rebellion against the word of GOD.
Amen and Amen Linda...!!! I loved that, I loved aaaaaaaaalllllllllllll that. Good Job, and very very well spoken.
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wparr
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EXCELENT point Linda.
"FUN" needs be defined before being discussed and then put in Scriptural context.
The FIRST question to be asked should be
quote:
WHAT do you consider fun?
I consider it "fun" to enjoy Yahweh's creation: to sit and watch the deer in my backyard as they graze;
to watch the sun rise in the morning and set in the evening over the mountains;
to sit and hear a babbling brook with the birds singing harmony.
I consider it "fun" to have TRUE fellowship with other disciples of Y'shua:
talking about Yahweh's character, attributes and nature;
talking about Yahweh's workings (past, present, and future)in and thru peoples lives.
When I was volunteering at the truck stop chapel, I considered it "fun" to teach and proclaim God's Word and to see "the lights come on" as some gain some new understanding and wisdom;
to council (with Scripture) those hurting, troubled, confused lambs of God looking for answers and see the trouble fall away to be replaced with God's peace;
to see God work in a lost person's life as they walked in the door because they had no place else to turn, and to be used by Yahweh as He draws them unto Himself.
And when seeking fleshly - worldly fun balance it with:
Luke 9:23
And Y'shua was saying tothem all, "If anyone wishes to come after Me, he must deny himself, and take up his cross daily and follow Me".
Ephesians 5:1-21
1 Therefore be imitators of God , as beloved children;
2 and walk in love, just as Christ also loved you and gave Himself up for us, an offering and a sacrifice to God as a fragrant aroma.
3 But immorality or any impurity or greed must not even be named among you , as is proper among saints;
4 and there must be no filthiness and silly talk, or coarse jesting, which are not fitting , but rather giving of thanks.
5 For this you know with certainty, that no immoral or impure person or covetous man, who is an idolater, has an inheritance in the kingdom of Christ and God.
6 Let no one deceive you with empty words, for because of these things the wrath of God comes upon the sons of disobedience.
7 Therefore do not be partakers with them;
8 for you were formerly darkness, but now you are Light in the Lord; walk as children of Light
9 (for the fruit of the Light {consists} in all goodness and righteousness and truth),
10 trying to learn what is pleasing to the Lord.
11 Do not participate in the unfruitful deeds of darkness, but instead even expose them ;
12 for it is disgraceful even to speak of the things which are done by them in secret.
13 But all things become visible when they are exposed by the light, for everything that becomes visible is light.
14 For this reason it says, "Awake, sleeper, And arise from the dead, And Christ will shine on you."
15 Therefore be careful how you walk, not as unwise men but as wise,
16 making the most of your time , because the days are evil.
17 So then do not be foolish, but understand what the will of the Lord is.
18 And do not get drunk with wine, for that is dissipation, but be filled with the Spirit,
19 speaking to one another in psalms and hymns and spiritual songs, singing and making melody with your heart to the Lord;
20 always giving thanks for all things in the name of our Lord Jesus Christ to God, even the Father;
21 and be subject to one another in the fear of Christ.
If you go play pool with the guys, is it because you want to have "fun"
or
because you, caring about the eternal destination of their souls, are using it as an opportunity to talk about Yahweh, and proclaim the Gospel of Y'shua Messiah?
Posts: 1203 | From: Eagle Nest, NM | Registered: Jan 2003
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helpforhomeschoolers
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You guys amaze me! You sound like heathen! Christian's cant be serious about the WORD, reject the things of the world and enjoy their lives?????? Christianity that is not worldly is just too hard?????? Too many rules????
You have all accused Dale of being judgmental, but what are you? You judge that because he is not interested in the things of this world he has no fun, his life is a drag, a set of regiments? No fun? No joy?
Mt 11:30 For my yoke is easy, and my burden is light.
It is still a YOKE.... but burdensome it is not..not to the born again believer.
How foolish of you all!
Ro 14:17 For the kingdom of God is not meat and drink; but righteousness, and peace, and joy in the Holy Ghost.
If it would steal your fun and your joy to take away all the music, all the movies, all the amusement parks all the entertainment in the world, then your joy is in the wrong things!
I am not saying that Christianity requires this, but I am saying that if tomorrow you found yourself in a dungeon and could not be joyful, then you might ought to check what your joy is in.
And Eduardo, Christianity was not born out of rebellion against Orthodox Judaism. Christianity was born out of the blood of Christ who did not rebell against orthodox judaism, but brought light and truth to the fact that Judaism had become apostate and was not the practices and teachings and WORD of God that was set down in the scriptures, but the traditions of Rabbi's who had added so much of their own opinions to the word that they had corrupted their religion. Jesus did not rebell. Jesus taught the scripture the torah, which pointed to HIM. Rebellion is as the sin of witchcraft and Jesus was not rebellious. Jesus opposed talmudic judaism which was rebellion against the word of GOD.
Posts: 4684 | From: Southern Black Hills of South Dakota | Registered: Jun 2002
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becauseHElives
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Matthew 12....
Either make the tree good, and his fruit good; or else make the tree corrupt, and his fruit corrupt: for the tree is known by [his] fruit.`
O generation of vipers, how can ye, being evil, speak good things? for out of the abundance of the heart the mouth speaketh.
A good man out of the good treasure of the heart bringeth forth good things: and an evil man out of the evil treasure bringeth forth evil things.
But I say unto you, That every idle word that men shall speak, they shall give account thereof in the day of judgment.
Mat 12:37 For by thy words thou shalt be justified, and by thy words thou shalt be condemned.
Read the scripture constantly, or, to use our Savior's expression in the text, "search the scriptures;" dig in them as for hid treasure; for here is a manifest allusion to those who dig in mines; and our Savior would thereby teach us, that we must take as much pains in constantly reading his word, if we would grow wise thereby, as those who dig for gold and silver. The scriptures contain the deep things of God, and therefore, can never be sufficiently searched into by a careless, superficial, cursory way of reading them, but by an industrious, close, and humble application.
The Psalmist makes it the characteristic of a good man, that he "meditates on God's law day and night." And "this book of the law, (says God to Joshua) shall not go out of thy mouth, but thou shalt meditate therein day and night;" for then thou shalt make thy way prosperous, and thou shalt have good success. Search, therefore, the scriptures, not only devoutly but daily, for in them are the words of eternal life; wait constantly at wisdom's gate, and she will then, and not till then, display and lay open to you her heavenly treasures. You that are rich, are without excuse if you do not; and you that are poor, ought to take heed and improve that little time you have: for by the scriptures you are to be acquitted, and by the scriptures you are to be condemned at the last day.
But perhaps you have no taste for this despised book; perhaps plays, romances, and books of polite entertainment, suit your taste better: if this be your case, give me leave to tell you, your taste is vitiated [corrupted, depraved], and unless corrected by the Spirit and word of God, you shall never enter into his heavenly kingdom: for unless you delight in God here, how will you be made meet to dwell with him hereafter. Is it a sin then, you will say, to read useless impertinent books; I answer, Yes. And that for the same reason, as it is a sin to indulge useless conversation, because both immediately tend to grieve and quench that Spirit, by which alone we can be sealed to the day of redemption. You may reply, How shall we know this? Why, put in practice the precept in the text; search the scripture in the manner that has been recommended, and then you will be convinced of the danger, sinfulness, and unsatisfacteriness of reading any others than the book of God, or such as are wrote in the same spirit. You will then say, when I was a child, and ignorant of the excellency of the word of God, I read what the world calls harmless books, as other children in knowledge, though old in years, have done, and still do; but now I have tasted the good word of life, and am come to a more perfect knowledge of Christ Jesus my Lord, I put away these childish, trifling things, and am determined to read no other books but what lead me to a knowledge of myself and of Christ Jesus.
Search, therefore, the scriptures, my dear brethren; taste and see how good the word of God is, and then you will never leave that heavenly manna, that angel's food, to feed on dry husks, that light bread, those trifling, sinful compositions, in which men of false taste delight themselves: no, you will then disdain such poor entertainment, and blush that yourselves once were fond of it. The word of God will then be sweeter to you than honey, and the honey-comb, and dearer than gold and silver; your souls by reading it, will be filled as it were, with marrow and fatness, and your hearts insensibly molded into the spirit of its blessed Author. In short, you will be guided by God's wisdom here, and conducted by the light of his divine word into glory hereafter.
The current state of Christian culture is sad, especially the Christian entertainment industry. The church embraces recycled ideas, copy-cat acts, and shallow lyrics as an acceptable way to worship God. A good friend of mine said it like this: Using recycled clichés and shallow lyrics in music used to worship God is the equivalent of reading, "roses are red, violets are blue" at a poetry reading and expecting to be taken seriously.
We should expect more, both lyrically and musically, from the Christian "talent" that we embrace.
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Strive to enter in at the strait gate:for many, I say unto you will seek to enter in, and shall not be able. ( Luke 13:24 )
Posts: 4578 | From: Southeast Texas | Registered: Jun 2002
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Jazzee
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good thread Freddy
Lets find out. I have been wondering also, since it seems like Because he lives has deemed most of us to hell.
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all things are possible for she who believes in the Lord
Posts: 34 | From: Denmark | Registered: Aug 2006
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Jazzee
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Hi Eduardo G
Exactly what I have been trying to say in the rap thread several times.(about rebellion) It needs to be said some more I guess so thanks Eduardo ![[Wink]](wink.gif)
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all things are possible for she who believes in the Lord
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Eden
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hey freddy05, that Internet argument you set forth to becauseHElives was very interesting.
Be blessed, freddy05
Eden
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Eden
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Hi, freddy05. You say: This is a question I have for BecauseHElives, but I´ll open it to everyone.
freddy05 also said, I am curious if you think it's ok to have fun. Or specifically, which types of "fun" activities are OK to you?
Hi, freddy05, the Bible tells us to enjoy the land of our inheritance:
Joshua 1:15 (KJV)
Until the LORD have given your brethren rest, as he hath given you, and they also have possessed the land which the LORD your God giveth them: then ye shall return unto the land of your possession, and enjoy it, which Moses the LORD's servant gave you on this side Jordan toward the sunrising.
Joshua 1:15 (NKJV)
15 Until the LORD has given your brethren rest, as He gave you, and they also have taken possession of the land which the LORD your God is giving them. Then you shall return to the land of your possession and enjoy it, which Moses the LORD’s servant gave you on this side of the Jordan toward the sunrise.”
We are meant to enjoy the land of our possession. So what is bornagain Christian fun? Postin here is fun, physical exercise is fun, cooking is fun, the earth can be very pretty...all fun, family is fun, that's all fun.
Be blessed.
Eden
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EL3LN3TN
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quote:
Originally posted by Eduardo Grequi:
How many of you all know that following Jesus is rebellion of the current government of UN and the USA?
Wow - That seems quite a slap in the face of our Upstanding Christian President George W. Bush, who has cited Jesus as his "hero" on past occasions.
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Eduardo Grequi
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Things that in rebeliion for today are: practicing homosexuals: marriage and the same sex union. The Word of God as the final authority within Christiandom etc....
If your walk is establish in rebellion against Jesus statues then wherein is Christ proclaimed? --Eduardo
Psalms 118:17
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Volume 8, Issue 4
America’s Moral Meltdown
By Richard F. Ames
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The United States is often considered one of the world’s leading nations. Sadly, America is more and more leading the world in immorality. How will the decline of this once-great nation affect our world—and you?
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Great nations often reflect great character and purpose. But when their standards and values decline and decay, their days are numbered. When families are strong and parents instill true values and godly character in their children, the nation is strong. But when a society abandons traditional "family values," history shows that its day of judgment looms.
A May 2000 Gallup Poll revealed that 77 percent of Americans believe America’s moral values are growing worse ("Morality Ratings the Worst in Five Years," The Gallup Organization, May 25, 2006). Yet more than 80 percent of Americans consider themselves personally religious. Last year, Gallup reported: "Fifty-five percent [of Americans] say religion is ‘very important’ to them, and another 28 percent say ‘fairly important’" ("Faith Accompanies Most Americans Through Life," May 31, 2005).
With a majority of its citizens professing religious faith, is America morally strong? Or is the nation heading for a moral meltdown?
From its beginning, the United States has found its core values in the pages of the Bible. British historian Paul Johnson explained: "Hence, though the Constitution and the Bill of Rights made no provision for a state church—quite the contrary—there was an implied and unchallenged understanding that America was a religious country, that the republic was religious not necessarily in its forms but in its bones, that it was inconceivable that it could have come into existence, or could continue and flourish, without an overriding religious sentiment pervading every nook and cranny of its society. This religious sentiment was based on the Scriptures and the Decalogue, was embodied in the moral consensus of the Judeo-Christian tradition, and manifested itself in countless forms of mainly Christian worship" ("God and the Americans," Commentary, January 1995, p. 31).
At its foundation, the U.S. based its values "on the Scriptures and the Decalogue"—the Bible and the Ten Commandments. More than 200 years later, is the nation still living by biblical values?
Historically, marriage and the family have been the building blocks of society. When men and women transgress the Ten Commandments—when they practice adultery and unfaithfulness in their marriages—the family unit suffers. Ancient Rome at first emphasized strong families, but historians have documented Rome’s declining emphasis on morality, and how that decline affected Roman society. In his book, Ancient Education and Today, E. B. Castle wrote, "Added to this initial cause of family disruption [the increasing absence of traveling businessmen from their families] was the consequent easy attitude to the marriage tie, the increasing frequency of divorce, and the growing freedom and laxity in women’s morals, all of which ended in a loosening of the old family unity in which the best in Roman character had its roots" (p. 119).
Will modern Western civilization follow the pattern of Rome’s decay? Writing in the first century ad, the Roman philosopher Seneca observed that "some noble ladies reckon the years of their lives, not by the number of the consuls, but by that of their husbands, now that they leave their homes in order to marry others, and marry only in order to be divorced… no woman keeps a husband at all unless it be to pique her lover" (On Benefits, Book III, xvi).
Men, too, are seduced by the false allure of adultery. With increased access to birth control, and the easy availability of abortion on demand, sexual activity has increased in the last few decades as people think they can avoid its consequences. Millions fail to take seriously the simple biblical admonition, "You shall not commit adultery" (Exodus 20:14). Yet, if everyone kept this precept—the seventh of the Ten Commandments—lives would be far happier and society would be far more stable.
Divorce statistics in Western nations remain sobering. In the last 30 years, the percentage of married adults in the U.S. has dropped by 17 percent, and more than 40 percent of first marriages end in divorce (Time, September 26, 2000, p. 77). In Great Britain, 53 percent of all marriages end in divorce, and in Canada 45 percent of all marriages end in divorce (ibid., p. 76). The Australian Bureau of Statistics reported in June 2001 that Australia’s divorced population had increased by 172 percent between 1981 and 2001.
What a sad commentary on the family stability of those nations! Media and immoral culture influence many to divorce, weakening national character. Why? One reason is that societies increasingly reject biblical teachings, particularly the Ten Commandments! The fifth commandment states: "Honor your father and your mother, that your days may be long upon the land which the Lord your God is giving you" (Exodus 20:12). If everyone kept the fifth and the seventh commandments, nations would experience stable and happy families.
Decaying Morality?
Our modern Western world increasingly rejects the Ten Commandments and continues its slide into immorality. Just how bad is it? The Barna Research Group surveyed American’s attitudes toward ten moral behaviors, and found that 60 percent consider it acceptable for unmarried people to cohabit. Fifty-nine percent believe sexual fantasizing is appropriate. Nearly half (45 percent) consider abortion acceptable, and 42 percent approve of extramarital sex. Thirty-eight percent approve of pornography, and 30 percent find homosexuality acceptable ("Morality Continues to Decay," November 3, 2003).
Regardless of Americans’ opinions, do you realize that, according to biblical principles, those behaviors are morally wrong? Just as God is the Creator of the natural laws of physics and chemistry, He is also the Lawgiver of spiritual law. And those spiritual laws are just as real as the physical ones! From beginning to end, the Bible reveals that obedience to God’s revealed laws brings blessings, while disobedience brings curses and penalties. Scripture reminds us: "Do not be deceived, God is not mocked; for whatever a man sows, that he will also reap. For he who sows to his flesh will of the flesh reap corruption, but he who sows to the Spirit will of the Spirit reap everlasting life" (Galatians 6:7–8).
We all need to keep the Ten Commandments. Even if our nation is turning away from the Ten Commandments—refusing even to let them be posted in public buildings—each of us individually can learn the true ways of love toward God and love toward neighbor. As we apply the Ten Commandments in our own lives, we will be following Jesus’ advice, "If you will enter into life, keep the commandments" (Matthew 19:17).
A nation that practices sexual licentiousness will pay the price. But we must ask ourselves individually: What is my attitude toward sexual activity? God created sex for intimacy, romance, and love in marriage, and to build a family. God’s way is the way of joy, peace, giving, serving, caring, and loving. Husbands and wives who love one another, and who are committed to one another, know the joys of intimacy that God intended. But there are consequences for disobedience. "Marriage is honorable among all, and the bed undefiled; but fornicators and adulterers God will judge" (Hebrews 13:4). Marriage is a blessing, and sex is God’s great gift within marriage. Yet how many millions will receive God’s judgment for their fornication and adultery?
If you are engaging in sexual immorality, you need to repent. You need to confess your sin before God, then change your behavior and quit sinning! God will forgive you, if you truly repent and accept Jesus Christ’s sacrifice for your sins!
When ancient King David committed adultery with Bathsheba, the prophet Nathan convicted David of his sin. David did not try to justify his sin; he confessed it, and prayed: "Have mercy upon me, O God, according to Your lovingkindness; according to the multitude of Your tender mercies, blot out my transgressions. Wash me thoroughly from my iniquity, and cleanse me from my sin" (Psalm 51:1–2).
Too many men and women today are not seeking God to help free them from the temptations of sexual immorality. Remember, Jesus taught us to pray, "And do not lead us into temptation, but deliver us from the evil one. For Yours is the kingdom and the power and the glory forever. Amen" (Matthew 6:13).
Are we becoming a nation of adulterers? Newsweek magazine asked: "Just how many married women have had sex with people who are not their husbands? It’s hard to say for sure… Couples therapists estimate that among their clientele, the number is close to 30 to 40 percent, compared with 50 percent of men, and the gap is almost certainly closing… The best interpretation of the data: the cheating rate for women is approaching that of men." ("The New Infidelity," July 12, 2003).
What does your Bible reveal about adultery? The Apostle James reveals the reason for wars, and he indicts those who are lustful. "Where do wars and fights come from among you? Do they not come from your desires for pleasure that war in your members? You lust and do not have. You murder and covet and cannot obtain. You fight and war. Yet you do not have because you do not ask. You ask and do not receive, because you ask amiss, that you may spend it on your pleasures. Adulterers and adulteresses! Do you not know that friendship with the world is enmity with God? Whoever therefore wants to be a friend of the world makes himself an enemy of God" (James 4:1–4).
Are you an "enemy" of God? In the Barna report mentioned above, even a majority of those who call themselves Christians were supportive of cohabitation. Sixty-six percent of self-described Roman Catholics, and 50 percent of Protestants, said they believe it is okay for men and women to live together outside of marriage. Today, even many who call themselves "religious" just follow along with the immoral crowd and commit fornication and adultery.
This problem, however, is not new. In the first century ad, the Greek city of Corinth was a center of worldwide commerce, and it was also a center of paganism, idolatry and sexual immorality. Many Corinthians repented of their sinful lifestyle, and became Christians. The Apostle Paul warned them against the temptations of their day. "Do you not know that the unrighteous will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived. Neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor homosexuals, nor sodomites, nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners will inherit the kingdom of God" (1 Corinthians 6:9–10).
Are you practicing any of those behaviors? God says that none of those individuals will inherit the Kingdom of God! Some of the Corinthians had repented of those lifestyles and sins when they became Christians—and God forgave them! The Apostle Paul continues, "And such were some of you. But you were washed, but you were sanctified, but you were justified in the name of the Lord Jesus and by the Spirit of our God" (v. 11).
Marriage Meltdown?
Some cities, states and countries act as if they know better than God. God defines marriage as a union between a man and a woman. The two shall become one flesh, He says. Yet more and more governments around the world are supporting same-sex unions. On November 18, 2003, the Massachusetts Supreme Judicial Court ruled that according to the state Constitution, same-sex couples cannot be denied the right of civil marriage. The state of Vermont recognizes "civil unions" for same-sex couples. The Washington Post reported that in the Netherlands "As many as 8 percent of all marriages here, are now between people of the same sex" (Washington Post, p. A20, September 23, 2003). A national poll by Environics Research in the summer of 2003 reported that "Currently just over half of Canadians (53 percent) strongly (28 percent) or somewhat (25 percent) support" same-sex marriage.
These ungodly trends will bring God’s judgment on us, unless we repent individually and nationally. The enormity of these trends—including a nationwide push in the U.S. for the recognition of same-sex "marriage"—has led to a conservative move to amend the U.S. Constitution. In January 2005, 25 U.S. senators co-sponsored the "Marriage Protection Amendment," to define marriage as a union between a man and a woman, for purposes of federal law. The amendment stated: "Marriage in the United States shall consist only of the union of a man and a woman. Neither this Constitution, nor the constitution of any State, shall be construed to require that marriage or the legal incidents thereof be conferred upon any union other than the union of a man and a woman."
Here we are in the prophesied end-times. Not that long ago, no one could have imagined that it might be necessary to amend the U.S. Constitution to define marriage. How far we have come from the days of which historian Paul Johnson wrote above! Worse, who would have imagined that 100 senators would not agree that marriage is the union between a man and a woman? Although same-sex marriage is not yet legal at the national level in the U.S., state governments are continuing to debate whether to do as Massachusetts has done, and establish same-sex "marriage." Other states, like Vermont and Connecticut, now allow what they call same-sex "civil unions." These offer most of the civil benefits of marriage, without using the word marriage. Several other states, including California, New Jersey and Maine, allow some form of same-sex domestic partnership.
Sadly, a majority of Americans approve of several other immoral behaviors. The above-mentioned Barna survey reported that 59 percent of Americans approve of sexual fantasizing. Are you misusing your mind in that way? Jesus Christ explained that we can sin in our minds, even without illicit sexual contact. Some religious people think that they can indulge in sexual fantasies without sinning. Yet carnal thoughts, including lustful thoughts that obsess about sex, are sinful. Jesus said, "But those things which proceed out of the mouth come from the heart, and they defile a man. For out of the heart proceed evil thoughts, murders, adulteries, fornications, thefts, false witness, blasphemies" (Matthew 15:18–19).
Those of you who indulge in pornography, or any sexual vice, need to repent! You need to quit sinning! You need to take steps to prevent your easy access to sexual temptations! The Apostle Paul gave this urgent instruction: "Flee sexual immorality. Every sin that a man does is outside the body, but he who commits sexual immorality sins against his own body" (1 Corinthians 6:18). Some think there are no penalties for easy sex, but God says that you sin against your own body!
The Apostle Paul continues, "Do you not know that your body is a temple of the Holy Spirit within you, which you have from God? You are not your own; you were bought with a price. So glorify God in your body" (1 Corinthians 6:19–20, RSV).
If you have not already done so, I hope you will make that commitment to glorify God in your body and in your spirit. God’s way of life through Christ is the abundant life (John 10:10). God intended that we live according to His awesome and wonderful spiritual laws of love that produce genuine happiness.
The Great Commandments
The Almighty Father, and His Son, Jesus Christ, have given us the principles, laws, and precepts that produce lasting peace and happiness. God, not mankind, defines marriage. Jesus Christ Himself taught what are called the two "great commandments"—to love God with all our heart, soul, mind, and strength, and to love our neighbors as ourselves (Mark 12:28–31). The first four of the Ten Commandments show us how to fulfill the first great commandment—to love God. The last six commandments show us how to fulfill the second great commandment—to love our neighbors. Yes, in order to fulfill Jesus’ command, we need to study and obey the Ten Commandments!
Sadly, our Western world is heading down a toboggan slide into immorality! What is the solution? We need to repent—nationally and individually—of our lustful, sinful lifestyles and attitudes. We need to get back to Scripture and the Ten Commandments!
Many years ago, in 1975, a television reporter asked me my appraisal of American morality. I answered, even then, that morality and godly character among Americans had declined—because biblical values were declining. When a nation reads the Bible and practices its precepts, it will prosper. But great neglect of the Bible and its teaching will continue to produce moral decline—and eventual national destruction.
Daniel Webster, the great American statesman, gave this warning about our national future: "If there is anything in my thoughts or style to commend, the credit is due to my parents for instilling in me an early love of the Scriptures. If we abide by the principles taught in the Bible, our country will go on prospering and to prosper; but if we and our posterity neglect its instructions and authority, no man can tell how sudden a catastrophe may overwhelm us and bury all our glory in profound obscurity" (Halley’s Bible Handbook, p. 18).
Our Western nations are neglecting—and increasingly rejecting—the instruction and authority of the Bible. We need to study the Bible and practice the way of life taught by the apostles, the prophets—and our Savior, Jesus Christ. They taught the Ten Commandments—God’s law of love—and its spiritual application. As Jesus said, "It is written, ‘Man shall not live by bread alone, but by every word of God’" (Luke 4:4). May we each put God’s word into action, in our hearts and in our lives!
The time is coming soon when God will punish America and the other Western nations for their immoral ways. But even if your nation does not change its ways, you can repent personally, turn to your Savior, Jesus Christ, and escape that time of judgment. Will you accept the challenge to live the abundant way of life taught in your Bible? If you do, you can rejoice in God’s divine blessings, receiving in this life a foretaste of what the whole earth will experience in Tomorrow’s World.
www.tomorrowsworld.org
This Issues Articles
America’s Moral Meltdown
More articles this magazine
Does The Bible Really Mean What It Says?
America’s Moral Meltdown
Modern Nations and God’s Ancient Plan
Brooklyn Heights: Dunkirk of the American Revolution
A Return to New Orleans
In Search of the Eternal Buzz
Satan’s Attack on the Bible
American Gates in Peril!
Go to this Magazine
Telecast
Jerusalem in Prophecy
What Would Jesus Do?
Who Was Jesus?
Vital Keys to Happiness
Which Day is the Christian Sabbath?
The New Roman Empire
Telecast Library
Posts: 771 | From: Belvidere, IL | Registered: Oct 2004
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Eduardo Grequi
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sometimes rebeling is good and sometimes it isn't!
Children should obey their parents.
Strong drink is rebellion,for it takes the soul to hell.
Remember if you are not serving Jesus, then you are serving the devil.
Christian Rap is something I do not like to hear but my daughter loves it. But atleast she reads her bible and pray.
Posts: 771 | From: Belvidere, IL | Registered: Oct 2004
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Eduardo Grequi
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How many of you all know that US of America was born out of rebillion?
How many of you know that the church was born out of rebillion from the Orthodoxy of Judiasm.
How many of you all know that the Civil Rights were born out of rebeilion of the standard Jim Crow South?
How many of you all know that following Jesus is rebellion of the current government of UN and the USA?
Posts: 771 | From: Belvidere, IL | Registered: Oct 2004
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EL3LN3TN
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Interesting, but about 4-5 years ago there was some guy with a personal webpage who was bellowing that the internet "belongs exclusively to Christians!!" and that any or all secular material or pornography needed to be removed. I forget the guys' website address, but doubt if it's even around anymore.
Funny, but I go back far enough to remember hearing in a church service once that hand-held calculators(!) are absolutely "of the devil! and mark of the Beast!"...and as sure a sign that the world would soon descend into the bottomless pit of whatever...
Go figure.
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freddy05
Advanced Member
Member # 5854
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posted
This is a question I have for BecauseHeLives, but I´ll open it to everyone ![[Smile]](smile.gif)
I am curious if you think its ok to have fun. Or specifically, which types of "fun" activities are OK to you?
You have condemned people who "spend 3 hours singing and screaming to (christian )rock music"...
You have said things born out of rebellion or sin are bad. You have said that we are not to have anything to do with "culture"...
I think that rules out amusement parks, sports, dancing, dating, TV, movies, radio, novels, eating at any restaraunt that serves alcohol or permits smoking, trips to the mall, etc.... Using the logic you´ve argued against music and culture, I really can´t think of a way a Christian can pass time outside of reading the bible, prayer, or evangelism.
One activity I KNOW that you participate in that is steeped in evil, is using the Internet! There is more evil in and around the Internet than in all the Rap and Metal music in the world. (Cause all the Rap and Metal is ON the Internet) If you want to talk about roots in evil, much of the growth and evolution of the Internet was spurred on by porn, money making scams, gambling, etc...
How do you justify your Internet use AND maintain that you have to stay away from all things evil, things that have roots in evil or rebellion, etc...
Posts: 102 | Registered: Jun 2006
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