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Topic: Prophetic warning AGAINST catholicism

WhiteEagle
Advanced Member
Member # 3728

posted

quote:
Originally posted by Forgivendaughter:
Ouch!

The Catholic Church does have practices I don't understand - - praying to Mary or saints.
But I see the thought process that they are not dead and you are asking them to pray for you. The Bible does say-- He is a GOD of the living and not the dead.

I will also say that I think that every church has faults. I know that a lot of churches, including several I've attended are locked up like Fort Knox during the week. I don't think that this how God wants a church to operate. I think a church, like the arms of Christ, should be open at all times.
A week or so ago, I was taking a walk and felt God wanted me to go into a Catholic Church I was passing. I had thoughts about 'Catholics' and their crazy practices, but did what I felt God telling me to do.

Well, I opened the door and just walked into the sanctuary. It was glorious that I could just go and be in the house of the LORD on an ordinary afternoon. I felt the presence of the LORD there with me. I felt God saying to focus on what the Catholic church is doing right and not what they are doing wrong. Their doors are always open. They are more observant of Ash Wednesday, Good Friday, Lent, etc than most protestant churches.

Another thing that I think Catholic churches are doing right, is sponsoring schools that teach children about GOD b/c public schools are teaching children so many things that go against Christianity.

There is SO much that we don't know. There is so much more to our GOD, than what is in the Bible. The Bible is a tool GOD gives us to find him - - - OUR GOD LIVES - - He is everything in the Bible and MORE, much, much more.

Can I just point out that 95% of Christians look at Sunday as Sabbath, but in reality SATURDAY is the Sabbath that God commanded us to keep holy. Do you keep this commandment?

In closing I just want to say Satan is our only enemy.
God is looking at our hearts - - Even if you appear to everyone around you to be doing the 'right' thing, if you are motivated by evil then you are sinning. I believe that the spirit in which you do things is more important than the actual actions.
I also know that God wants to save as many of his Children as possible.

I just pray that we will all honor God with our hearts and that from our hearts will live a righteous life. I pray that ALL THOSE who believe in JESUS will honor him with their righteous acts. I pray for truth to pour out on all those who believe in Jesus as our CHRIST. I pray this in the name of our LORD Jesus because I want his enemy, Satan to be defeated and all of his children to be saved b/c he has purchased us with his blood. Amen

I agree with you! I have often wished my own church doors were able to be open many times, just so I could go and pray alone at the altar.

I know of course I can pray alone in my home and that my body is a temple of the Holy Spirit.

Somehow I've just often wished I could do that. Be in the Sanctuary and pray alone.

Posts: 1392 | From: Maine | Registered: Aug 2004 | IP: Logged |

KnowHim
Admin
Member # 1

posted

quote:
Originally posted by Mjcw:
I cannot see how the quotations from the bible make any reference to Catholisicm or any other specific religion. All religions have people in them that do evil - my question is when we face our maker will he spend the time telling us we picked the "right" or "wrong" faith or will he judge us on our actions? Didn't he say, judge not or ye will be judged?

I think we will all have enough on our hands justifing the way we lived our life without telling god how bad or wrong others were.

Judge not?

Matthew 7
1 Judge not, that ye be not judged.
2 For with what judgment ye judge, ye shall be judged: and with what measure ye mete, it shall be measured to you again.

This is a warning against self-righteous severity, not a command to be neutral toward moral issues.

"You're not supposed to judge me!"

This is a verse that is often said and, often misused. In other words, its taken out of context. The people that use this verse often use it to stop me (or others) from pointing out their sinful life and their need for salvation. This verse even has some Christians confused, and it hinders their attempts to share the gospel. To convince them that they need salvation, you first must convince them of their sin.

I get so tired of people using this verse to tell everyone not to say any thing about sin. It is not a verse to tell us to keep quit on sin. We are to expose sin!

Jesus Christ is the one whom stated the below, and we are to be like him:

MATTHEW 23: Jesus publicly rebuked the hypocrites, "Woe unto you... hypocrites!...ye blind guides...fools...full of extortion and excess...whited sepulchres...full of hypocrisy and iniquity...Woe unto you...Ye serpents, ye generation of vipers, how can ye escape the damnation of hell?"

Judge not, that ye be not judged. We cannot help judging. Gossip is a mass of verdicts on our neighbor's conduct, and everybody talks about his neighbors. Politics, national or international, is considerably concerned with judgments. These are inevitable: appraisals are a stock in trade of the mind. Ethical verdicts gather into worthy tradition. Who can rightly remain silent in face of flagrant wrong? So we must be clear about the meaning of this word: Jesus here speaks of censorious judgment and too quick condemnation. He draws a line between ethical appraisal and sharp-tongued criticism, and bids us keep on the right side of the line. He says that critical censure is a boomerang.

This does not mean that we are to stick our head in the sand and not judge every spirit!

1 John 4:1-3 (KJV)
1Beloved, believe not every spirit, but try the spirits whether they are of God: because many false prophets are gone out into the world. 2Hereby know ye the Spirit of God: Every spirit that confesseth that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is of God: 3And every spirit that confesseth not that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is not of God: and this is that spirit of antichrist, whereof ye have heard that it should come; and even now already is it in the world.

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SoftTouch
Advanced Member
Member # 2316

posted

Questions:

How important do you think it is that we keep our "Doctrine" (teachings) Pure (meaning Strictly Biblical)?

How important is it to "Rightly Divide The Word of God?"

The next thing is to TEST what Any denomination teaches (be it RCC, Luthern, Baptist, or whatever calls it's self "Christian"). If their teachings Do Not Line Up with Scripture... then there is a Problem [Wink]

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Psalm 119:104Through thy precepts I get understanding: therefore I hate every false way. 105Thy word is a lamp unto my feet, and a light unto my path.

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Mjcw
New Member
Member # 5902

posted

I cannot see how the quotations from the bible make any reference to Catholisicm or any other specific religion. All religions have people in them that do evil - my question is when we face our maker will he spend the time telling us we picked the "right" or "wrong" faith or will he judge us on our actions? Didn't he say, judge not or ye will be judged?

I think we will all have enough on our hands justifing the way we lived our life without telling god how bad or wrong others were.

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TEXASGRANDMA
Advanced Member
Member # 847

posted

Do you leave your home unlocked? During the week our Church is open every day because we have a Church school. But when the school is out it is locked. It is not acting responisable to leave the doors unlocked and allow people to walk away with everything. I have always wanted a piece of property where I could have a little chapel with nothing but a pew and a Bible for people to come in an prayer but I don't expect my Church to open their doors to thieves.
betty

--------------------
Luk 21:28 And when these things begin to come to pass, then look up, and lift up your heads; for your redemption draweth nigh.
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helpforhomeschoolers
Advanced Member
Member # 15

posted

quote:
It was glorious that I could just go and be in the house of the LORD on an ordinary afternoon.

1Co 6:19 What? know ye not that your body is the temple of the Holy Ghost which is in you, which ye have of God, and ye are not your own?

Posts: 4684 | From: Southern Black Hills of South Dakota | Registered: Jun 2002 | IP: Logged |

Forgivendaughter
New Member
Member # 5888

posted

Ouch!

The Catholic Church does have practices I don't understand - - praying to Mary or saints.
But I see the thought process that they are not dead and you are asking them to pray for you. The Bible does say-- He is a GOD of the living and not the dead.

I will also say that I think that every church has faults. I know that a lot of churches, including several I've attended are locked up like Fort Knox during the week. I don't think that this how God wants a church to operate. I think a church, like the arms of Christ, should be open at all times.
A week or so ago, I was taking a walk and felt God wanted me to go into a Catholic Church I was passing. I had thoughts about 'Catholics' and their crazy practices, but did what I felt God telling me to do.

Well, I opened the door and just walked into the sanctuary. It was glorious that I could just go and be in the house of the LORD on an ordinary afternoon. I felt the presence of the LORD there with me. I felt God saying to focus on what the Catholic church is doing right and not what they are doing wrong. Their doors are always open. They are more observant of Ash Wednesday, Good Friday, Lent, etc than most protestant churches.

Another thing that I think Catholic churches are doing right, is sponsoring schools that teach children about GOD b/c public schools are teaching children so many things that go against Christianity.

There is SO much that we don't know. There is so much more to our GOD, than what is in the Bible. The Bible is a tool GOD gives us to find him - - - OUR GOD LIVES - - He is everything in the Bible and MORE, much, much more.

Can I just point out that 95% of Christians look at Sunday as Sabbath, but in reality SATURDAY is the Sabbath that God commanded us to keep holy. Do you keep this commandment?

In closing I just want to say Satan is our only enemy.
God is looking at our hearts - - Even if you appear to everyone around you to be doing the 'right' thing, if you are motivated by evil then you are sinning. I believe that the spirit in which you do things is more important than the actual actions.
I also know that God wants to save as many of his Children as possible.

I just pray that we will all honor God with our hearts and that from our hearts will live a righteous life. I pray that ALL THOSE who believe in JESUS will honor him with their righteous acts. I pray for truth to pour out on all those who believe in Jesus as our CHRIST. I pray this in the name of our LORD Jesus because I want his enemy, Satan to be defeated and all of his children to be saved b/c he has purchased us with his blood. Amen

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SoftTouch
Advanced Member
Member # 2316

posted

While reading a tread on another board I came across this site: http://a1m.org/page.php?page=template1.php&pageid=45898de9c1800924a8120f622a8ebf4c

It is Very Important to understand how the RCC does not line up with Scripture and this site shows it. Here's the first paragraph (it's a long article that goes the various Declarations of Trent:

quote:
Declarations of the Council of Trent Compared with the Authority of Scripture

Introduction

“Has the Roman Catholic Church changed its basic doctrinal position in this present ecumenical era? The answer is no, it has not. The Council of Trent was a Catholic council held from 1545-1563 in an attempt to destroy the progress of the Protestant Reformation. This council denied every Reformation doctrine, including Scripture alone and grace alone. Trent hurled 125 anathemas (eternal damnation) against Bible-believing Christians. These proclamations and anathemas were fleshed out in the murderous persecutions vented upon Bible-believing Christians by Rome, and the solemn fact is that the Council of Trent has never been annulled. The Vatican II Council of the mid-1960s referred to Trent dozens of times, quoted Trent's proclamations as authority, and reaffirmed Trent on every hand. The New Catholic Catechism (1994) cites Trent no less than 99 times. There is not the slightest hint that the proclamations of the Council of Trent have been abrogated by Rome. At the opening of the Second Vatican Council, Pope John XXIII stated, "I do accept entirely all that has been decided and declared at the Council of Trent." Every cardinal, bishop and priest who participated in the Vatican II Council signed a document affirming Trent.”

Go to the link above to read the comparison

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Psalm 119:104Through thy precepts I get understanding: therefore I hate every false way. 105Thy word is a lamp unto my feet, and a light unto my path.

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helpforhomeschoolers
Advanced Member
Member # 15

posted

Hi Nan: You are not alone in believing the Roman Catholic Church is "the church"; the world sees them as Christianity and it is a tragedy.

She has for 2000 years called herself "the church"; she has proclaimed that those outside of her are damned to hell.. ananthama.. acursed for she is the one true church of Jesus Christ.

This is a lie.

This is not to say that there are not people in the Roman Church whom GOD desires to save, but I believe that those are the ones that HE is calling out of her for she is apostate.

If you are to see the Roman Church for what she is you have to see how she began.

By 175 AD, apostasy was already at work in the Christian Church as the Apostles had warned it would be.

The church at Rome had begun to try and ussurp the authority of the other Bishops. This was strongly promoted by Iranaeus. In his espistles he declared the supremecy of the Bishops and it was he that first claimed apostolic succession to support his teaching that the Bishops were the head of the church and supreme over the presbytariate.

As early as the first century there was a movement toward the ehaltation and adoration of Mary. The church leaders naturally wanted to meet with her.. to talk with her...she was the mother of Jesus and you can read the writings of Ignatius and hear the unscriptural adoration of Mary had begun.

By the fourth century after Christ,there was tremendous division among the church and arianism had come to out of Egypt and to the forefront of apostasies in the church; also Rome was in trouble, it's conquests had caused it to grow too large too fast and while life itself in Rome was grand, the lieves of those conquered in the outer parts of the Empire were in lack and life was not grand... Rome was in decline. There was constant threat to the Emporer's throne from others among the ranks who thought they could do a better job. If Constantine could stop the persecutions of Christians, he could stop the division of the empires focus by eliminating one enemy without war.

The Edic of Milan was his tool in and he made Christianity legal is Rome... not only this but he himself by claiming Christianity made Christianity to be desrious..if you wanted to show your suport for the emporer, you became like him a Christian, and Christianity became the official relgion of the empire. The emporer of Rome became the head of the church of Rome. It was constantine that called and presided over the council at Nicea!

What is important to understand is that this is in and of itself AntiChrist... Jesus is the head of the church, and the scripture clearly tells us that it has been given to Jesus alone to be the ONLY one that will ever establish a Christian Empire in the earth.

But back to Constantine... under Constantine, the persecuted became the persecutors for when ROME went out to conquer they went flying the Christian flag. Christianity under Rome was no more about belief in Christ, but about opposition or lack there of toward the Roman Empire.

Constantine rewarded those who complied with material wealth and those who did not comply were rewarded with death.

Constantine's efforts to solidify Rome and return her to the days of Glory failed, but marriage of the Church to the world was one that would last to this day... Rome divided in 395 AD in spite of Constanine's efforts.

In the East the Emporer was the head of the Church; in the West in 445 AD the Emporer of the West officially named Pope LEO as the supreme ruler of the church, and it was LEO...not the emporer who went out to meet Atila the Hun and persuaded them not to attack Rome. Leo declared that whomever did not agree with the Roman Church on matters of Christian belief should be put to death.

In 494 AD, Leo's successor made the Pope of Rome Supreme over all Bishops. THis was never the way of the Apostles who appointed bishops in the local churches and set them as shepherds!!!

What I want you to see here is that what became was a Christian government... to this day the vatican is a city and a soverign government... the Pope its head.

That government is responsible for 1500 years of persecution of Jews and others who opposed it; it is responsible for the assimilation of all manners of paganism into the church; it is responsible for keeping the scriptures out of the hands of the common man for 1500 years; it is responsible for a host of dogma, tradition, and even doctrine that are completely contrary to the scripture.

It never was the "church" not the one that Christ was building!

Nan, are you aware that almost all of the men that participated in the reformation believed that the pope was the anitchrist?

The Roman church has attempted to keep us ignorant of its bloody and apostate history. Those today who know it and speak of it are accused of terrible things, but any society that denies its history is subject to repeat its history and that should be a warning to us.

Do you know that there are people in europe that are very much aware of the autracities of the Roman church through out history that will have nothing to hear of Christianity because if that is what Christianity is they want no part of it?

It is a sad thing the apostasy of Rome because it is Rome that has evenagelized much of the world and thus we find in Africa people who claim to be Christian, but are in bondage to all manner of sin, paganism and corruption... as Christianity is mixed with the pagan tribal religions.

In this country the Roman church sought to help the US government civilize the native Americans and they tore children from their families and shipped them off to boarding schools where they were taught Catholisim and stripped of their native language and beaten brutally if they did not comply. To this day in the part of the country where I live there are native americans that are in bondage to sin and to alchohol and mixing Christianity with tribal religion and practicing paganism and living lives that show none of the peace and Joy and power of holy spirit and yet they believe that they can live like the devil and go to heaven when they die because they believe that they are christians... and they have believed a lie spread by an organization that called themselves the church and never was the church.

The Gospel of Jesus Christ changes lives; it brings peace and joy and power in the holy ghost that is greater than any earthly circumstance. It frees us from the oppression of the devil and it frees us from bondage to sin that we who are born again do not have to be at war with our flesh and do not have to be lead along by the nose by sin.

But when it is not the Gospel of Christ that is preached people are not freed and yet they believe that they are saved.

If you think that it is difficult to witness Christ to someone who is npt saved try witnessing it to someone who is not and believes that they are, but has believed lie. The great falling away that we see today is a result of the preaching of a Gospel that cannnot save, cannot free, cannot bring peace and JOY and power in the Holy Ghost, cannot cause one to possess all things though they possess nothing.

There is no greater crime of hate that we can spread than that of spreading a Gospel that is not the Gospel of Christ.

The Roman Church has been spreading just such a Gospel for 2000 years, claiming to be the bride, claimign to be the ONE TRUE church and she never has been.

Rome is alive and well today in the Vatican City and she is engrossed in eccumenical efforts that will draw her into unity with Islam and with Apostate Protestantism and with all other religions of the world, and then out of that eccumenical union is coming THE ANTICHRIST.

Nan, I pray that you will not take my word for it but investigate for yourself... Rome is not the apostate church... Rome never was the church in the first place, she is man's creation not Christ's. She is steeped in the babylonian paganism... even look at what they call Mary... the Queen of Heaven! Do you know that that term is in the scripture? It refers to a pagan goddess and GOd was angry with the Israelites for worshiping her.

The Bible shows that Rome is the babylonian religion repackaged... look at Daniel's interpretation of Nebuchadnezzar's statute from his dream.

If you note every kingdom is swallowed up by the next, and then the scripture says when Christ returns, he crumbles them all... from Nebuchadnezzar's Babylon to the Medes and Persians to ALexander's Greece, and then Rome... Rome lives today as clay and iron that cannot cleave and out of Rome ...not the city... but the entity... it is a religious/governmental/political entity out of it will come the anitchrist and the attempted NWO.

It is important to see that the Great ***** Mystery Babylon has been many cities... that is why she is a Mystery.. she has been the Great City of Babylon, She has been Nineva; she has been Alexandria, She has been Rome... Where will she be in the Last day? Will she be Washington, Jerusalem, Babylon again? I dont know, but I have no doubt that Romanism that is called Catholicism will be right there in the middle of her as she trough a policy of eccumenism seeks to draw together Islam and other heathen religions such as Hinduism and budhism and apostate Christianity.

Posts: 4684 | From: Southern Black Hills of South Dakota | Registered: Jun 2002 | IP: Logged |

ahar
Advanced Member
Member # 5810

posted

quote:
Originally posted by David:
The Bible tells us that God has clearly revealed Himself in nature (Romans 1:20) and in the hearts of people (Ecclesiastes 3:11). The problem is that the human race is sinful; we all reject this knowledge of God and rebel against Him (Romans 1:21-23).

<snip>

Deuteronomy 4:29 proclaims, “But if from there you seek the LORD your God, you will find him if you look for him with all your heart and with all your soul.” This verse teaches an important principle: everyone who truly seeks after God will find Him. If a person truly desires to know God, God will make Himself known.

Indeed, and the debate centres around how God makes himself known, and what this actually means in practical terms. This is also why I said that I wouldn't go into it in this thread as I've gone far enough off topic already [Smile]

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Cheers

Andy

Posts: 290 | From: UK | Registered: Jun 2006 | IP: Logged |

KnowHim
Admin
Member # 1

posted

quote:
Originally posted by ahar:

quote:
Originally posted by nan29:
God doesn’t want anyone to perish, so if “real” Christians think they are the only ones saved, then that rules out 5.5 billion people on this earth. I don’t think that’s God’s plan.
Which begs the interesting question of what happens to those that have never had the chance to hear the Good News

No one will go to hell because they haven’t heard of Jesus Christ. The heathen will go to hell for murder, rape, adultery, lust, theft, lying, etc. Sin is not failing to hear the gospel. Rather, "sin is the transgression of the Law" (1 John 3:4). If we really care about the lost, we will become missionaries and take the good news of God’s forgiveness in Christ to them.

::::::::::::::::::::
All people are accountable to God whether they have “heard about Him” or not. The Bible tells us that God has clearly revealed Himself in nature (Romans 1:20) and in the hearts of people (Ecclesiastes 3:11). The problem is that the human race is sinful; we all reject this knowledge of God and rebel against Him (Romans 1:21-23). Apart from God's grace, God would give us over to the sinful desires of our hearts, allowing us to discover how useless and miserable life is apart from Him. This He does for those who reject Him (Romans 1:24-32).

In reality, it is not that some people have not heard about God. Rather, the problem is that they have rejected what they have heard and what is readily seen in nature. Deuteronomy 4:29 proclaims, “But if from there you seek the LORD your God, you will find him if you look for him with all your heart and with all your soul.” This verse teaches an important principle: everyone who truly seeks after God will find Him. If a person truly desires to know God, God will make Himself known.

The problem is, “there is no one who understands, no one who seeks God” (Romans 3:11). People reject the knowledge of God that is present in nature and in their own heart, and instead decide to worship a “god” of their own creation. It is foolish to debate the fairness of God sending someone to hell who never had the opportunity to hear the Gospel of Christ. People are responsible to God for what God has already revealed to them. The Bible says that people reject this knowledge, and therefore God is just in condemning them to hell.

Instead of debating the fate of those who have never heard, we, as Christians, should be doing our best to make sure that they hear. We are called to spread the Gospel throughout the nations (Matthew 28:19-20; Acts 1:8). The fact that we know people reject the knowledge of God revealed in nature must motivate us to proclaim the good news of salvation through Jesus Christ. Only through accepting the Gospel of God’s grace through the Lord Jesus Christ can people be saved from their sins and rescued from an eternity apart from God in hell.

If we assume that those who never hear the Gospel are granted mercy from God, we will run into a terrible problem. If people who never hear the Gospel are saved…we should make sure that no one ever hears the Gospel. The worst thing we could do would be share the Gospel with a person and have him or her reject it. If that were to happen, he or she would be condemned. People who do not hear the Gospel must be condemned, or else there is no motive for evangelism. Why run the risk of people possibly rejecting the Gospel and condemning themselves – when they were previously saved because they had never heard the Gospel?

http://www.gotquestions.org/never-heard.html

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Posts: 3276 | From: Charlestown, IN | Registered: Jun 2002 | IP: Logged |

ahar
Advanced Member
Member # 5810

posted

quote:
Originally posted by nan29:
God doesn’t want anyone to perish, so if “real” Christians think they are the only ones saved, then that rules out 5.5 billion people on this earth. I don’t think that’s God’s plan.

Which begs the interesting question of what happens to those that have never had the chance to hear the Good News - but I'll put that aside here as as I understand it can be a complex area.

The discussion is still coming back to the difference between the central theology of salvation and then any associated theology of worship and prayer. I think this is what nan meant (correct me if I'm wrong nan) - that if you believe that the way to salvation is through Jesus and Jesus alone then you may be wrong or right about the associated rules but salvation is still there. With your permission guys, I'm going to post this in a new thread and frame a question around it, rather than debating it as part of the Catholism thread.

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Cheers

Andy

Posts: 290 | From: UK | Registered: Jun 2006 | IP: Logged |

KnowHim
Admin
Member # 1

posted

quote:
Originally posted by nan29:
if “real” Christians think they are the only ones saved, then that rules out 5.5 billion people on this earth. I don’t think that’s
God’s plan.

You better think again. Sounds like you are trying to create a God to suite your self. That is called idolatry.

Jesus is the One who said that He is the only way to the Father. For Christians to say that there are other ways to find peace with God is to bear false testimony. In one sweeping statement, Jesus discards all other religions as a means of finding forgiveness of sins. This agrees with other Scriptures: "Neither is there salvation in any other: for there is no other name under heaven given among men, whereby we must be saved" (Acts 4:12), and "For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus" (1 Timothy 2:5).

Enter through the narrow gate. For wide is the gate and broad is the road that leads to destruction, and many enter through it. But small is the gate and narrow the road that leads to life, and only a few find it.

Matthew 7:13 through Matthew 7:14 (NIV)

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Posts: 3276 | From: Charlestown, IN | Registered: Jun 2002 | IP: Logged |

TEXASGRANDMA
Advanced Member
Member # 847

posted

I disagree about something else. There is only one way to Christ. Yes, there are different Churches and different ways of worshipping, but only coming to Jesus and repenting of your sins and turning away from your sins and serving Him, brings salvations.
betty

--------------------
Luk 21:28 And when these things begin to come to pass, then look up, and lift up your heads; for your redemption draweth nigh.
http://www.indieheaven.com/artists/mm (son-in-law)http://www.myspace.com/mireles

Posts: 4985 | From: Washington State | Registered: Jan 2003 | IP: Logged |

TEXASGRANDMA
Advanced Member
Member # 847

posted

We are called to spread the Good News. Part of this responsability is too speak the truth. Hiding my head in the sand and letting good people go to hell is not what being a Christian is all about. Sure it is the safest way and you probably make more friends that way. But being a Christian is not about being popular. If Paul had done what you are doing, he would have died of old age. I believe that many Christians will have to answer to God for doing just what you suggest.
betty

--------------------
Luk 21:28 And when these things begin to come to pass, then look up, and lift up your heads; for your redemption draweth nigh.
http://www.indieheaven.com/artists/mm (son-in-law)http://www.myspace.com/mireles

Posts: 4985 | From: Washington State | Registered: Jan 2003 | IP: Logged |

nan29
Advanced Member
Member # 5761

posted

quote:
Those who seek to justify many pathways to God do NOT know Christ and are teaching pure error contrary to the very words of the Lord Jesus Christ. Jesus declares that HE is the way, the truth and the life, and NO man cometh to the Father but through Jesus.

Maybe it would open your eyes if you would open His Word, instead of buying into and preaching that equmenical pablum of destruction.

There is only one way to Father and that is through Jesus Christ, there may be many ways to Jesus Christ, why are there hundreds if not thousands of protestant churches? I read His Word everyday. I allow God to speak to me personally, I don't allow myself to buy into anything! I don't preach, I give my opinion. No one has all the answers. God is the only one who is omniscient.

Posts: 38 | From: New York | Registered: May 2006 | IP: Logged |

Caretaker
Advanced Member
Member # 36

posted

Your type of love nan will love the sinner straight into hell and justifies false christs and those lost in the deception of the cults. This is not love.

God has said that we ARE TO JUDGE between what is true and what is false. Those who seek to justify falsehood do no service to the lost. Those who seek to justify many pathways to God do NOT know Christ and are teaching pure error contrary to the very words of the Lord Jesus Christ. Jesus declares that HE is the way, the truth and the life, and NO man cometh to the Father but through Jesus.

Maybe it would open your eyes if you would open His Word, instead of buying into and preaching that equmenical pablum of destruction.

We are to judge:

Righteous judgement
2 Peter 2:
1: But there were false prophets also among the people, even as there shall be false teachers among you, who privily shall bring in damnable heresies, even denying the Lord that bought them, and bring upon themselves swift destruction.
2: And many shall follow their pernicious ways; by reason of whom the way of truth shall be evil spoken of.
3: And through covetousness shall they with feigned words make merchandise of you: whose judgment now of a long time lingereth not, and their damnation slumbereth not.
4: For if God spared not the angels that sinned, but cast them down to hell, and delivered them into chains of darkness, to be reserved unto judgment;
5: And spared not the old world, but saved Noah the eighth person, a preacher of righteousness, bringing in the flood upon the world of the ungodly;
6: And turning the cities of Sodom and Gomorrha into ashes condemned them with an overthrow, making them an ensample unto those that after should live ungodly;
7: And delivered just Lot, vexed with the filthy conversation of the wicked:
8: (For that righteous man dwelling among them, in seeing and hearing, vexed his righteous soul from day to day with their unlawful deeds;)
9: The Lord knoweth how to deliver the godly out of temptations, and to reserve the unjust unto the day of judgment to be punished:
10: But chiefly them that walk after the flesh in the lust of uncleanness, and despise government. Presumptuous are they, selfwilled, they are not afraid to speak evil of dignities.
11: Whereas angels, which are greater in power and might, bring not railing accusation against them before the Lord.
12: But these, as natural brute beasts, made to be taken and destroyed, speak evil of the things that they understand not; and shall utterly perish in their own corruption;
13: And shall receive the reward of unrighteousness, as they that count it pleasure to riot in the day time. Spots they are and blemishes, sporting themselves with their own deceivings while they feast with you;
14: Having eyes full of adultery, and that cannot cease from sin; beguiling unstable souls: an heart they have exercised with covetous practices; cursed children:
15: Which have forsaken the right way, and are gone astray, following the way of Balaam the son of Bosor, who loved the wages of unrighteousness;
16: But was rebuked for his iniquity: the dumb *** speaking with man's voice forbad the madness of the prophet.
17: These are wells without water, clouds that are carried with a tempest; to whom the mist of darkness is reserved for ever.
18: For when they speak great swelling words of vanity, they allure through the lusts of the flesh, through much wantonness, those that were clean escaped from them who live in error.
19: While they promise them liberty, they themselves are the servants of corruption: for of whom a man is overcome, of the same is he brought in bondage.
20: For if after they have escaped the pollutions of the world through the knowledge of the Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ, they are again entangled therein, and overcome, the latter end is worse with them than the beginning.
21: For it had been better for them not to have known the way of righteousness, than, after they have known it, to turn from the holy commandment delivered unto them.
22: But it is happened unto them according to the true proverb, The dog is turned to his own vomit again; and the sow that was washed to her wallowing in the mire.

1 Cor. 5:
9: I wrote unto you in an epistle not to company with fornicators:
10: Yet not altogether with the fornicators of this world, or with the covetous, or extortioners, or with idolaters; for then must ye needs go out of the world.
11: But now I have written unto you not to keep company, if any man that is called a brother be a fornicator, or covetous, or an idolater, or a railer, or a drunkard, or an extortioner; with such an one no not to eat.
12: For what have I to do to judge them also that are without? do not ye judge them that are within?
13: But them that are without God judgeth. Therefore put away from among yourselves that wicked person.

1 Cor. 2:
9: But as it is written, Eye hath not seen, nor ear heard, neither have entered into the heart of man, the things which God hath prepared for them that love him.
10: But God hath revealed them unto us by his Spirit: for the Spirit searcheth all things, yea, the deep things of God.
11: For what man knoweth the things of a man, save the spirit of man which is in him? even so the things of God knoweth no man, but the Spirit of God.
12: Now we have received, not the spirit of the world, but the spirit which is of God; that we might know the things that are freely given to us of God.
13: Which things also we speak, not in the words which man's wisdom teacheth, but which the Holy Ghost teacheth; comparing spiritual things with spiritual.
14: But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned.
15: But he that is spiritual judgeth all things, yet he himself is judged of no man.
16: For who hath known the mind of the Lord, that he may instruct him? But we have the mind of Christ.

2 Timothy 3:
16: All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:
17: That the man of God may be perfect, throughly furnished unto all good works.

Main Entry: doc•trine
Pronunciation: 'däk-tr&n
Function: noun
Etymology: Middle English, from Middle French & Latin; Middle French, from Latin doctrina, from doctor
1 archaic : TEACHING, INSTRUCTION
2 a : something that is taught b : a principle or position or the body of principles in a branch of knowledge or system of belief : DOGMA c : a principle of law established through past decisions d : a statement of fundamental government policy especially in international relations

Main Entry: re•proof
Pronunciation: ri-'prüf
Function: noun
Etymology: Middle English reprof, from Middle French reprove, from Old French, from reprover
: criticism for a fault : REBUKE

Main Entry: 1re•buke
Pronunciation: ri-'byük
Function: transitive verb
Inflected Form(s): re•buked; re•buk•ing
Etymology: Middle English, from Old North French rebuker
1 a : to criticize sharply : REPRIMAND b : to serve as a rebuke to
2 : to turn back or keep down : CHECK
synonym see REPROVE
- re•buk•er noun

Main Entry: cor•rec•tion
Pronunciation: k&-'rek-sh&n
Function: noun
1 : the action or an instance of correcting : as a : AMENDMENT, RECTIFICATION b : REBUKE, PUNISHMENT c : a bringing into conformity with a standard d : NEUTRALIZATION, COUNTERACTION <correction of acidity>
2 : a decline in market price or business activity following and counteracting a rise
3 a : something substituted in place of what is wrong <marking corrections on the students' papers> b : a quantity applied by way of correcting (as for adjustment of an instrument)
4 : the treatment and rehabilitation of offenders through a program involving penal custody, parole, and probation; also : the administration of such treatment as a matter of public policy -- usually used in plural
- cor•rec•tion•al /-shn&l, -sh&-n&l/ adjective

Main Entry: righ•teous
Pronunciation: 'rI-ch&s
Function: adjective
Etymology: alter. of earlier rightuous, alteration of Middle English rightwise, rightwos, from Old English rihtwIs, from riht, noun, right + wIs wise
1 : acting in accord with divine or moral law : free from guilt or sin
2 a : morally right or justifiable <a righteous decision> b : arising from an outraged sense of justice or morality <righteous indignation>
3 slang : GENUINE, GOOD
synonym see MORAL
- righ•teous•ly adverb
- righ•teous•ness noun

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A Servant of Christ,
Drew

1 Tim. 3:
16: And without controversy great is the mystery of godliness: God was manifest in the flesh..

Posts: 3978 | From: Council Grove, KS USA | Registered: Jun 2002 | IP: Logged |

TEXASGRANDMA
Advanced Member
Member # 847

posted

It is popular today to say that all roads lead to God. What does Jesus say about this?

Jhn 14:6 Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me.

Jhn 10:1 Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that entereth not by the door into the sheepfold, but climbeth up some other way, the same is a thief and a robber.

Are to judge others?

Luk 6:43 For a good tree bringeth not forth corrupt fruit; neither doth a corrupt tree bring forth good fruit.
________________________________________
Luk 6:44 For every tree is known by his own fruit. For of thorns men do not gather figs, nor of a bramble bush gather they grapes.

There is no universal salvation. Jesus is the only way to Heaven. Any Church that takes the truth of the Gospel and tries to add to it or take from the plan of salvation is a cult and we should stand against it.
betty

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Luk 21:28 And when these things begin to come to pass, then look up, and lift up your heads; for your redemption draweth nigh.
http://www.indieheaven.com/artists/mm (son-in-law)http://www.myspace.com/mireles

Posts: 4985 | From: Washington State | Registered: Jan 2003 | IP: Logged |

nan29
Advanced Member
Member # 5761

posted

Everyone believes that their religion is the right religion. I am non-denominational; my religion is love which is what Jesus preached more than anything. I work in New York City. I had front row seats to the devastation that occurred on 9/11, the result of hate and intolerance and of people who think that they are right and everyone else is wrong and are willing to die and kill for their beliefs. I know people who lost loved ones and who huddled together to pray – people of different religions and denominations. It is not up to us to judge who is right and who is wrong. In the end, we all have to answer to God, we’re all sinners. Maybe God intended it to be like this - different religions to see if we can love in spite of our differences. I know Jehovah witnesses with a good heart; I know Catholics with a good heart; I know Pentecostals with a good heart – Jesus looks at the heart. Who’s to say these people are condemned because to others their practices are questionable? Maybe this is a test. We are not to judge, we are to love - only God judges. God doesn’t want anyone to perish, so if “real” Christians think they are the only ones saved, then that rules out 5.5 billion people on this earth. I don’t think that’s God’s plan.

Posts: 38 | From: New York | Registered: May 2006 | IP: Logged |

ahar
Advanced Member
Member # 5810

posted

Well, in a spare few minutes I've had a dig through some of the web links that you guys have posted and it has certainly expanded my knowledge of Catholic doctrine. I'm now not sure about my previous statement regarding the Catholic church regarding Jesus as the only path to salvation. Given that pronoucements from previous Pope's can't always be taken as a guide to current thinking (if I remember quite a few used to have mistresses and held orgies back in the middle ages) I'm going to do some wider reading - that is not to say I think I'm wrong, but I realise that my knowledge is inadequate to make a decision or to continue the discussion. I may be back in a future thread [Smile]

On to Anglicanism [Smile]

Far be it for me to defend all the different areas of the Anglican communion - I suspect that in it's current form it won't last much longer and a lot of the 'liberal' bishops and other things that you have quoted won't call themselves Anglican very soon, having split off from the main Anglican communion.

I don't think that it is true to describe Anglicans as wanting to merge with the Catholic church or that it is watered down catholism. There is no praying to saints, no asking Mary for forgiveness or any of the other things that you quoted for the RCC. I've never heard anyone in the church say that they want to merge with the RCC. This is not to say that we don't co-operate on certain things though, for example the fund set up for the victims of the London terrorist bomb last year.

I fully agree with your assertion David, that salvation is by Jesus alone and this is what the Anglican church teaches. I've never asserted in my posts that belief in Jesus is enough or that there is anything else that will save you - truly repenting and truly asking for fogivness is what matters. The Anglican church teaches this - I'm sure that it does, as this is what they taught me.

The church services and communion part (Eucharist) within the Anglican church are quite structured and share some structure with the RCC (the Nicene creed etc) but the emphasis here is on worship. There is NO suggestion that salvation comes about from the particular rituals in the service, or that it is required for salvation. There is NO suggestion that the particular form of rituals are bibically inspired - these are the proceedures that the church has chosen to worship God.

The 7 points that David posted are taken from GCSE Religious Education - that is the curriculum that 14 year olds study in school and is very, very simplified. For example, the leadership of the church DO NOT believe that they have the same authority as God (as one may say that the Pope does). The authority that they have as church leaders comes from and is subservient to God. The leadership, as in ANY church lead the congregations in applying the teaching of the bible to modern life. The bible has no passages regarding the use of fertilised eggs in Stem Cell research - we look to our church leadership to help us understand how the teaching in the bible applies to this modern life issue.

The Anglican church does believe that communion is a very important ritual as it reminds us of the point of the ressurection. It is because it is important that only an ordained vicar can lead the congregation in it - it is NEVER taught that the reason is a biblical one.

The other sacrement that may cause confusion is the Penitence. This is the first part of communion and reminds us that we are sinners. As the Eucharist service continues, it takes us through the crucifixion and the resurrection, finishing with the forgivness of sins. The church does NOT teach that this ritual provides forgiveness, or that it is necessary for forgiveness. It is part of the church service as a way of reminding us of the message. Yes it is structured, but if you understand it you realise that the message is the same as in many other churches.

I encourage you to take a look at http://www.cofe.anglican.org/worship/downloads/pdf/mvcommunion154-335.pdf which holds the texts for the Eucharist services. By reading this you can get a better view of the teachings of the church. To be honest, sometimes the church comes out with some pretty eosoteric theology papers that I've no chance of understanding, but the Eucharist should be a good guide to Anglicanism

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Cheers

Andy

Posts: 290 | From: UK | Registered: Jun 2006 | IP: Logged |

Caretaker
Advanced Member
Member # 36

posted

http://www.tomorrowsworld.org/cgi-bin/tw/tw-mag.cgi?category=Magazine15&item=1104090951

News sources report another growing trend. A recent study discovered that "a third of young evangelical Christians believe in living together before marriage" (The London Times, May 5, 2001). This finding shocked Protestant church leaders and revealed a thorny dilemma—"either they emphasize biblical teaching on sexual morality, which risks driving more young people away, or they compromise their traditional teaching, which may alienate the older generations" (Ibid). In contrast to the increasingly firm Catholic positions on moral and theological issues, "one Church of England report has already recommended that the phrase ‘living in sin’ should be abandoned" (Ibid). A study of evangelical young people revealed that many considered it acceptable to steal small items and said that it was sometimes necessary to lie. This lack of morality among professing Christians parallels the increasingly liberal teachings of their religious leaders.

Ironically, as mainline Protestant denominations liberalize their doctrines to accommodate popular ideas, their church attendance continues to fall! One British bishop described his church as "irrelevant, dull and… so committee-bound that it was hardly likely ever to inspire or convert anyone" (The London Times, December 22, 1998). There is growing concern that Anglican Church leaders can believe anything they want. Another article comments that secular, materialistic and ungodly trends in England are so apparent that "missionaries from South America and Africa are heading to Britain to save our souls in a reversal of traditional roles" (The Sunday Times, July 1, 2001).

The story of Protestant decline is the same in America and other countries. At a recent conference of the Presbyterian church, liberals’ attempts to ordain practicing homosexuals and question whether belief in Jesus Christ is necessary for salvation (see John 14:6; Acts 4:12) sent shockwaves through a denomination long considered a bastion of conservative Christian theology. One delegate commented that "the homosexual and christological debates have diminished the church’s ability to minister" (2001, WorldNetDaily.com). Another observed: "This is the end of the church as we know it" (Ibid). Conservative members of mainline denominations have threatened to leave if fundamental teachings of the Bible are willfully discarded.

But what does all this mean? What is so significant about the Roman Catholic revival and Protestant decline? Simply this—Jesus told His disciples to watch for specific signs that would announce that His return was near (see Matthew 24; Mark 13; Luke 21). Religious deception figures prominently in those signs. The Apostle Paul describes two more events that will precede the return of Christ—a great falling away and the appearance of a false, but highly influential, religious leader on the world stage (2 Thessalonians 2:1–4). The phrase "falling away" comes from the Greek word apostasia which means "a deliberate abandonment of a former professed position" or a great rebellion against, or general rejection of, the truth of Scripture and the laws of God (see The Expositor’s Bible Commentary). This is exactly what we are seeing today in the world, as secular materialism replaces spirituality and liberalism undermines traditional moral teachings. This apostasy is also evident in the perverted teachings and compromised theology promoted by liberal theologians. These developments are described in numerous prophecies about the end of the age (see 1 Timothy 3; 4; 2 Peter 2:1–14).

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The phrase "falling away" comes from the Greek word apostasia which means "a deliberate abandonment of a former professed position" or a great rebellion against, or general rejection of, the truth of Scripture and the laws of God (see The Expositor’s Bible Commentary).

--------------------
A Servant of Christ,
Drew

1 Tim. 3:
16: And without controversy great is the mystery of godliness: God was manifest in the flesh..

Posts: 3978 | From: Council Grove, KS USA | Registered: Jun 2002 | IP: Logged |

KnowHim
Admin
Member # 1

posted

Anglican church

Key beliefs

* The Anglican church is a mixture of "Catholic" (High church - emphasis on the Eucharist and on ceremony) and "Protestant" (Low church - emphasis on the bible and preaching) beliefs.

* The authority comes equally from the bible, from God and from the leadership of the clergy.

* The central act of worship is the Eucharist or Lord's Supper.

* Only priests can perform the Eucharist.

* Priests can be married and can be men or women.

*The church of England is part of the government of the UK with 24 bishops in the house of Lords.

* There are seven sacraments or holy acts these are the Eucharist, Baptism, Confirmation, Marriage, Penance (confession of sins), Ordination, Anointing of the sick.

http://re-xs.ucsm.ac.uk/gcsere/revision/xtianity/ch2/1/6.html

::::::::::::::::::::::::

It is all about knowing Jesus Christ. It is not about religion or traditions. If you don't trust and know Jesus Christ ONLY for your salvation, you are going the wrong.

It is not Jesus Christ plus something else.

It is Jesus Christ only.

That is why the theif on the cross was saved. He believed in and trust Jesus only and not his own works to save him.

Quote: My central argument here is that to be called a Christian, one has to accept Jesus Christ as their personal saviour.

It does not matter if you call yourself a Christian or not. It is about knowing and following Jesus Christ ONLY. Believing in Jesus Christ will not save you. You must be born-again. Satan believes in Jesus Christ and is not saved. On judgement day it is not a religion that will save you. It is not some work you have done that will save you. It is who you actually know, follow and trust that will save you and that person is Jesus Christ. Knowing about Him will not save you. Doing some religious ritual will not save you. If you know and love Jesus Christ you will know it as it will change your life. You don't do good because you have to, you do it because you love Jesus Christ and want to.

It has been well said that "religion" is man’s way of trying to deal with his guilt. Different religions have different ways of attempting to rid their adherents of sin and its consequences. They fast, pray, deny themselves legitimate pleasures, or chasten themselves, often to a point of inflicting pain. They do this because they have a concept of what they think God (or "the gods") is like, so they seek to establish their own righteousness, being "ignorant of God’s righteousness." The Good News of the Christian faith is that no one need suffer the pains of religious works. Christ’s blood can cleanse our conscience from the "dead works" of religion (Hebrews 9:14). Jesus took our punishment upon Himself, and He is the only One who can save us from sin and death. See Acts 4:12 and John 14:6.

Are you a good person?
http://fishthe.net/good-person1.html

Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven. Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works? And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity. Matthew 7:21-23 (KJV)

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Posts: 3276 | From: Charlestown, IN | Registered: Jun 2002 | IP: Logged |

Caretaker
Advanced Member
Member # 36

posted

Ahar:
I'm not looking for a Catholic message board - I am not a catholic, I'm an Anglican Christian. I am also NOT teaching catholic doctrine. If you re-read my posts you will find that I am arguing that the basic tenant in catholisim seems to me to be the same as in the Anglican church.
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An Anglican is a "watered-down" Catholic, determining faith and practice by committee, but with the fervent desire for unity with the RCC.

http://ctlibrary.com/8033

Asked whether the Anglican document, which was described by the Church of England as "courteous yet robust," would harden differences with Roman Catholics, Bishop Hind said: "Fifty years ago it probably would have. Today there is a totally different climate. We can approach these issues with a fair degree of honesty."

The Eucharist: Sacrament of Unity stresses the central place of the Eucharist in the life of the church: "It unites Creation and Redemption, life and liturgy, porch and altar. It galvanizes Christians for witness and service in the world. … There is real empowering in the Eucharist for all who are brought into communion with Christ and his people here."

The document reiterates that the Church of England is a catholic and apostolic church, and points out that much of its theology of the Eucharist is the same as that of the Roman Catholic Church. This includes a belief in the real presence of Christ—although not in transubstantiation.

The report states: " … we do not believe that Eucharistic communion should be reserved for the end point of unity already achieved between separated churches. … Anglicans have come to accept that shared eucharistic communion [in various degrees] may be an appropriate anticipation of full visible unity."

The Eucharist: Sacrament of Unity is partly a teaching document for Anglicans and partly a response to One Bread One Body, issued in 1998 by the Roman Catholic bishops of Britain and Ireland which restated the Roman Catholic ban on Eucharistic sharing—ruling out the possibility of Roman Catholics receiving non-Catholic Eucharist, and of non-Catholic Christians, except in grave or life-threatening circumstances, receiving Roman Catholic communion. One Bread One Body invited responses from other churches.

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Ahar:
The Nicene Creed that caretaker posted is used in Catholic and Anglican church services and sets out the basic truths that the churches aspire to. I there something in the Nicene Creed that you don't agree with David?

Apostasy is defined by the OED as the formal reject of one's religion. I do not think that they have gone that far. I don't agree with their doctrine of praying to Mary or the Saints, of the immaculate conception or of the need for confession (and a whole bunch of other stuff) but they do see Jesus as the son of God, who died on the cross for the forgiveness of sins.

++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

The Catholic trust is in their Church, not in Christ.

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Ahar:

Will God, on the day of judgement say that they have been a 'good and faithful servant'? I can't say, but I do know if they truly ask for forgiveness and ask to be saved they will be, no matter how many hail mary's they've done, or whatever saints they have prayed to in the past. I don't think that the criminal on the Cross next to Jesus understood any theological precepts at all - he asked Jesus to forgive him and save him, and he was saved.

+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

Unlike Catholics the thief on the Cross placed his faith and trust in Christ alone. The Catholic places their faith and trust in the Roman Catholic Church.

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Ahar:

This is indeed a Christian message board, and part of it's function (and you could put me right on this, as it's your board) is discussion and debate. My central argument here is that to be called a Christian, one has to accept Jesus Christ as their personal saviour. I believe that the Catholic church does teach this (along with a whole load of other stuff about using Mary as an intercession which doesn't seem right to me) but I am prepared to have someone show me different, as I am not a Catholic and haven't been to a Catholic mass.

++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

An Anglican is a Catholic with a watered-down liberalized Catholic theology.An overwhelming desire by Anglicans to re-unite with the Roman Catholic Church has them enmeshed in compromise.

Jesus Christ is the one and only Saviour, and therefore our faith must be exclusively in Him alone. St Peter underlines this fundamental truth, saying: "Nor is there salvation in any other, for there is no other name under heaven given among men by which we must be saved" (Acts 4:12).

Sadly, Roman Catholic piety leads many Catholics to turn their eyes from Jesus towards Mary. They still "believe in Jesus", of course, yet their heart is not reassured. They apply to someone else. “St John Damascene had no hesitancy in addressing our Lady in these words: Pure and immaculate Queen, save me, and deliver me from eternal damnation. St Bonaventure called Mary the salvation of those who invoke her” (The Glories of Mary, St Alphonsus Liguori).

You have to choose between the advise of the Catholic saint, who tells you to invoke the name of Mary for salvation, and the inspired words uttered by the apostle Peter, who solemnly warns that Jesus is the only name given among us whereby we must be saved.

We will never compromise our faith for the sake of unity.

Main Entry: apos·ta·sy
Pronunciation: &-'päs-t&-sE
Function: noun
Inflected Form(s): plural -sies
Etymology: Middle English apostasie, from Late Latin apostasia, from Greek, literally, revolt, from aphistasthai to revolt, from apo- + histasthai to stand -- more at STAND
1 : renunciation of a religious faith
2 : abandonment of a previous loyalty : DEFECTION

Here is a list of Catholic practices and dates instigated by papal decree that
have ABSOLUTELY NO BIBLICAL FOUNDATION:

1. Prayers for the dead .....300 A.D.
2. Making the sign of the cross .....300 A.D.
3. Veneration of angels & dead saints .....375 A.D
4. Use of images in worship .....375 A D.
5. The Mass as a daily celebration .....394 A.D.
6. Beginning of the exaltation of Mary; the term, "Mother of God" applied at Council of Ephesus .....431 AD.
7. Extreme Unction (Last Rites) .....526 A.D.
8. Doctrine of Purgatory-Gregory I .....593 A.D.
9. Prayers to Mary & dead saints .....600 A.D.
10. Worship of cross, images & relics .....786 A.D.
11. Canonization of dead saints .....995 A.D.
12. Celibacy of priesthood .....1079 A.D.
13. The Rosary .....1090 A.D.
14. Indulgences .....1190 A.D.
15. Transubstantiation-Innocent III .....1215 A.D.
16. Auricular Confession of sins to a priest .....1215 A.D.
17. Adoration of the wafer (Host) .....1220 A.D.
18. Cup forbidden to the people at communion .....1414 A.D.
19. Purgatory proclaimed as a dogma .....1439 A.D.
20. The doctrine of the Seven Sacraments confirmed .....1439 A.D.
21. Tradition declared of equal authority with Bible by Council of Trent.....1545 A.D.
22. Apocryphal books added to Bible .....1546 A.D.
23. Immaculate Conception of Mary .....1854 A.D.
24. Infallibility of the pope in matters of faith and morals, proclaimed by the Vatican Council .....1870 A.D.
25. Assumption of the Virgin Mary (bodily ascension into heaven shortly after her death) .....1950 A.D.
26. Mary proclaimed Mother of the Church .....1965 A.D.

In Their Own Words At The Council of Trent the RCC renounces the true faith:

1. CANON 9: "If any one saith, that by faith alone the impious is justified; in such wise as to mean, that nothing else is required to co-operate in order to the obtaining the grace of Justification, and that it is not in any way necessary, that he be prepared and disposed by the movement of his own will; let him be anathema."

"Therefore by the deeds of the law there shall no flesh be justified in his sight: for by the law is the knowledge of sin" (Rom. 3:20).
B. "Being justified freely by his grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus" (Rom. 3:24).
C. "Therefore we conclude that a man is justified by faith without the deeds of the law" (Rom. 3:28).
D. "For what saith the scripture? Abraham believed God, and it was counted unto him for righteousness" (Rom. 4:3).
E. "Therefore being justified by faith, we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ" (Rom. 5:1).
F. "For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God" (Eph. 2:8).
G. "Not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to his mercy he saved us, by the washing of regeneration, and renewing of the Holy Ghost" (Titus 3:5).

2. CANON 12: "If any one shall say that justifying faith is nothing else than confidence in the divine mercy pardoning sins for Christ's sake, or that it is that confidence alone by which we are justified ... let him be accursed"
.
"But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name" John 1:12).
A. "Therefore we conclude that a man is justified by faith without the deeds of the law" (Rom. 3:28).
B. "For what saith the scripture? Abraham believed God, and it was counted unto him for righteousness" (Rom. 4:3).
C. "Wherefore he is able also to save them to the uttermost that come unto God by him, seeing he ever liveth to make intercession for them. For such an high priest became us, who is holy, harmless, undefiled, separate from sinners, and made higher than the heavens; 27Who needeth not daily, as those high priests, to offer up sacrifice, first for his own sins, and then for the people’s: for this he did once, when he offered up himself" (Heb. 7:25-27).
D. For the which cause I also suffer these things: nevertheless I am not ashamed: for I know whom I have believed, and am persuaded that he is able to keep that which I have committed unto him against that day" (2 Tim. 1:12).

3. Canon 14: "If any one saith, that man is truly absolved from his sins and justified, because that he assuredly believed himself absolved and justified; or, that no one is truly justified but he who believes himself justified; and that, by this faith alone, absolution and justification are effected; let him be anathema."
.
"For what saith the scripture? Abraham believed God, and it was counted unto him for righteousness" (Rom. 4:3).
A. "Therefore being justified by faith, we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ" (Rom. 5:1).

4. Canon 23: "lf any one saith, that a man once justified can sin no more, nor lose grace, and that therefore he that falls and sins was never truly justified; or, on the other hand, that he is able, during his whole life, to avoid all sins, even those that are venial,- except by a special privilege from God, as the Church holds in regard of the Blessed Virgin; let him be anathema."
.
"He that believeth on the Son hath everlasting life: and he that believeth not the Son shall not see life; but the wrath of God abideth on him" (John 3:36).
A. "And this is the will of him that sent me, that every one which seeth the Son, and believeth on him, may have everlasting life: and I will raise him up at the last day" (John 6:40).
B. "And I give unto them eternal life; and they shall never perish, neither shall any man pluck them out of my hand" (John 10:28).
C. "That as sin hath reigned unto death, even so might grace reign through righteousness unto eternal life by Jesus Christ our Lord" (Rom. 5:21).
D. "They went out from us, but they were not of us; for if they had been of us, they would no doubt have continued with us: but they went out, that they might be made manifest that they were not all of us" (1 John 2:19).
E. "These things have I written unto you that believe on the name of the Son of God; that ye may know that ye have eternal life, and that ye may believe on the name of the Son of God" (1 John 5:13).
•
Canon 24: "If any one saith, that the justice received is not preserved and also increased before God through good works; but that the said works are merely the fruits and signs of Justification obtained, but not a cause of the increase thereof; let him be anathema."

. "O foolish Galatians, who hath bewitched you, that ye should not obey the truth, before whose eyes Jesus Christ hath been evidently set forth, crucified among you? 2This only would I learn of you, Received ye the Spirit by the works of the law, or by the hearing of faith? 3Are ye so foolish? having begun in the Spirit, are ye now made perfect by the flesh?" (Gal. 3:1-3).
A. "Stand fast therefore in the liberty wherewith Christ hath made us free, and be not entangled again with the yoke of bondage. 2Behold, I Paul say unto you, that if ye be circumcised, Christ shall profit you nothing. 3For I testify again to every man that is circumcised, that he is a debtor to do the whole law" (Gal. 5:1-3).
•
Canon 30: "If any one saith, that, after the grace of Justification has been received, to every penitent sinner the guilt is remitted, and the debt of eternal punishment is blotted out in such wise, that there remains not any debt of temporal punishment to be discharged either in this world, or in the next in Purgatory, before the entrance to the kingdom of heaven can be opened (to him); let him be anathema."

. "Therefore being justified by faith, we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ" (Rom. 5:1).
A. "And you, being dead in your sins and the uncircumcision of your flesh, hath he quickened together with him, having forgiven you all trespasses; 14Blotting out the handwriting of ordinances that was against us, which was contrary to us, and took it out of the way, nailing it to his cross" (Col. 2:13-14).

• Canon 33: "If any one saith, that, by the Catholic doctrine touching Justification, by this holy Synod inset forth in this present decree, the glory of God, or the merits of our Lord Jesus Christ are in any way derogated from, and not rather that the truth of our faith, and the glory in fine of God and of Jesus Christ are rendered (more) illustrious; let him be anathema.
. This council declares that if anyone disagrees with it, they are damned.

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A Servant of Christ,
Drew

1 Tim. 3:
16: And without controversy great is the mystery of godliness: God was manifest in the flesh..

Posts: 3978 | From: Council Grove, KS USA | Registered: Jun 2002 | IP: Logged |

ahar
Advanced Member
Member # 5810

posted

quote:
Originally posted by David:
Andy if you are looking for a Catholic message board you are in the wrong place.

This is a Christian message board and not a Catholic message board.

Accusing the Catholic church of apostasy is plain wrong

You do not have to agree with me as you can believe as you wish, but we do not condone teaching Catholic doctrine on this message board.

Period

If that is what you want to do I suggest you go to a Catholic message board.

Thank you,
David

I'm not looking for a Catholic message board - I am not a catholic, I'm an Anglican Christian. I am also NOT teaching catholic doctrine. If you re-read my posts you will find that I am arguing that the basic tenant in catholisim seems to me to be the same as in the Anglican church.

The Nicene Creed that caretaker posted is used in Catholic and Anglican church services and sets out the basic truths that the churches aspire to. I there something in the Nicene Creed that you don't agree with David?

Apostasy is defined by the OED as the formal reject of one's religion. I do not think that they have gone that far. I don't agree with their doctrine of praying to Mary or the Saints, of the immaculate conception or of the need for confession (and a whole bunch of other stuff) but they do see Jesus as the son of God, who died on the cross for the forgiveness of sins.

Will God, on the day of judgement say that they have been a 'good and faithful servant'? I can't say, but I do know if they truly ask for forgiveness and ask to be saved they will be, no matter how many hail mary's they've done, or whatever saints they have prayed to in the past. I don't think that the criminal on the Cross next to Jesus understood any theological precepts at all - he asked Jesus to forgive him and save him, and he was saved.

This is indeed a Christian message board, and part of it's function (and you could put me right on this, as it's your board) is discussion and debate. My central argument here is that to be called a Christian, one has to accept Jesus Christ as their personal saviour. I believe that the Catholic church does teach this (along with a whole load of other stuff about using Mary as an intercession which doesn't seem right to me) but I am prepared to have someone show me different, as I am not a Catholic and haven't been to a Catholic mass.

--------------------
Cheers

Andy

Posts: 290 | From: UK | Registered: Jun 2006 | IP: Logged |

TEXASGRANDMA
Advanced Member
Member # 847

posted

Every Relgion the world classifies as Christian isn't. I read a book last night where the author kept referring to the Mormom Relgion as Christian.
The Catholic Church is not Christian. Yes there are people who attend the Catholic Church who are Christian, but the Church is not a Christian Church. For the record most Catholics identify themselves as Catholic rather then Christians.
Any Relgion that adds to what is needed to be saved has lost their way. God did a perfect job of putting together the plan of salvation and He does not need any group to add to what He requires.
betty

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Luk 21:28 And when these things begin to come to pass, then look up, and lift up your heads; for your redemption draweth nigh.
http://www.indieheaven.com/artists/mm (son-in-law)http://www.myspace.com/mireles

Posts: 4985 | From: Washington State | Registered: Jan 2003 | IP: Logged |

KnowHim
Admin
Member # 1

posted

Just a note, this is not a Catholic message board. One needs only to know Jesus Christ as their Lord and Savior. He alone can save you and nothing else. We believe in all Ten Commandments here. Especially the second one that the Catholic’s removed. And it was written in stone, it states:

Exodus 20:4 -5 (KJV)
Thou shalt not make unto thee any graven image, or any likeness of any thing that is in heaven above, or that is in the earth beneath, or that is in the water under the earth: Thou shalt not bow down thyself to them, nor serve them: for I the LORD thy God am a jealous God, visiting the iniquity of the fathers upon the children unto the third and fourth generation of them that hate me;…

If you would like to be removed from this message board, continue with your Catholic message and you will be.

What Is Idolatry?

Throughout the history of Israel, there was a problem of idolatry. Some of the people would worship "foreign gods" (the gods of foreign nations). At times, idolatry was practiced on a large scale. We first see it with the golden calf that Aaron made, while the Israelites were at Mount Sinai. God warned Moses about idolatry. Wide-spread idolatry is described a number of times in the Book of Judges, and it is a recurring theme of the prophets. Following are some examples:

"And the LORD said unto Moses, Behold, thou shalt sleep with thy fathers; and this people will rise up, and go a whoring after the gods of the strangers of the land, whither they go to be among them, and will forsake me, and break my covenant which I have made with them." (Deuteronomy 31:16)

"And yet they would not hearken unto their judges, but they went a whoring after other gods, and bowed themselves unto them: they turned quickly out of the way which their fathers walked in, obeying the commandments of the LORD; but they did not so. And when the LORD raised them up judges, then the LORD was with the judge, and delivered them out of the hand of their enemies all the days of the judge: for it repented the LORD because of their groanings by reason of them that oppressed them and vexed them. And it came to pass, when the judge was dead, that they returned, and corrupted themselves more than their fathers, in following other gods to serve them, and to bow down unto them; they ceased not from their own doings, nor from their stubborn way." (Judges 2:17-19)

"And he [King Manasseh] did that which was evil in the sight of the LORD, after the abominations of the heathen, whom the LORD cast out before the children of Israel. For he built up again the high places which Hezekiah his father had destroyed: and he reared up altars for Baal, and made a grove, as did Ahab king of Israel; and worshipped all the host of heaven, and served them." (2 Kings 21:2-3; also see verses 4-9)

"And they set them up images and groves in every high hill, and under every green tree: And there they burnt incense in all the high places, as did the heathen whom the LORD carried away before them; and wrought wicked things to provoke the LORD to anger: For they served idols, whereof the LORD had said unto them, Ye shall not do this thing." (2 Kings 17:10-12; see verses 1-23)

Most modern westerners don't overtly worship pagan gods. However, there is more to idolatry than ancient pagan customs. According to Webster's Dictionary, idolatry also means, "excessive love or veneration for anything." (Love for God can never be excessive, but love for created things can be.)

Is it idolatry to say that there is no salvation without the Catholic Church? That would mean that the sacrifice of Jesus Christ was not sufficient to save us. Some popes have declared that no person can be saved apart from the Catholic Church. Pope Boniface VIII said that, unless people submit to the Pope, they cannot be saved. Other popes have declared that there is no salvation apart from Mary. Pope Innocent III said that he was the "Foundation of all Christianity." (You can read these statements online.)1

Is it idolatry to sing hymns to the Pope? It is traditional to sing papal hymns. You can buy recordings of them online. One hymn says that the Pope rules over "space and time." It also says that all the earth, and Heaven, should sing about the glory of the Pope. (You can read the words of this hymn online.)2

Is it idolatry to call the Pope "Holy Father"? In the Bible, that term is only used for God. Jesus used it when praying to His heavenly Father. (John 17:11)

Is it idolatry to say that the Pope is "God on earth"? One Pope openly said it. Others implied it. Pope Innocent III said that every Catholic clergyman must obey the Pope, even if the Pope orders him to do something evil, because nobody can judge the Pope. In 1894, Pope Leo XIII said that, as Pope, he held on the earth the place of God Almighty. Pope Pius X ruled from 1903 to 1914. He said that when the Pope speaks, it is Jesus Christ Himself speaking. He also said that the Pope is the one hope for the world. Pope Pius XI reigned from 1922 to 1939. He said that, because he was the Vicar of Christ, he was "God on earth." (You can read quotations from these popes online.)3

Is it idolatry to venerate Mary and the saints? Catholic Canon Law says that all Catholics should cultivate devotion to Mary, including praying the rosary. (The rosary has ten prayers to Mary for every one prayer to God.) Canon Law also says that church altars are required to have a relic of a saint. (A relic is a part of a saint's body, or something closely associated with the saint.) (You can read the Canon Laws online.)4

Is it idolatry to venerate "images"? Canon Law says that Catholic churches should have "holy images," such as statues and pictures, and that Catholics should venerate these images. (This is online.)5 In contrast, the Bible forbids the veneration of statues or other images. It says:

"Thou shalt not make thee any graven image, or any likeness of any thing that is in heaven above, or that is in the earth beneath, or that is in the waters beneath the earth: Thou shalt not bow down thyself unto them, nor serve them…" (Deuteronomy 5:8-9, emphasis added)

The Infant of Prague is an example of the extent to which veneration of images can be taken. A church in Prague, Czechoslovakia, has a statue of Jesus as an infant. Miracles have been attributed to this statue. Pilgrims come from around the world to venerate it. The statue wears expensive clothing and a gold crown set with jewels. It has 70 different sets of ornate clothing. In 1995, the statue was carried in solemn procession through the streets of Prague. The procession was led by two cardinals. Churches in many countries have replicas of this statue. (You can see pictures online.)6

Appendix D has Internet addresses of web pages with many pictures, including devotional practices that honor statues. If you go to these websites, you will see pictures of Pope John Paul II, kneeling before a statue of Mary; a candlelight procession in Fatima, Portugal, where millions of pilgrims follow a statue of Mary; and a ceremony in Cuba, where Pope John Paul II put a gold crown on a statue of Mary and declared that Mary is the Queen of Cuba. You will see pictures of statues that wear expensive clothing and gold crowns. (Sometimes the crowns have real jewels on them.) You will see pictures of statues of Mary that are so large that they dominate the church or chapel in which they are placed. In some cases, the crucifix on the altar is underneath the feet of the statue of Mary.

Is it idolatry to worship consecrated bread? The Catholic Church says that, during Mass, the bread and wine literally turn into the body, blood, soul, and divinity of Jesus Christ. Catholics are taught to bow before the bread and to worship it. According to Catholic Canon Law, Catholics are supposed to worship the Eucharist (consecrated bread and wine) with "supreme adoration." (This is online.)7

I have discussed a number of Catholic doctrines and devotional practices in this chapter. Do some of them involve forms of idolatry? Please ask God to give you His perspective about it.

http://www.unmaskingcatholicism.com/Contents.shtml

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Posts: 3276 | From: Charlestown, IN | Registered: Jun 2002 | IP: Logged |

Caretaker
Advanced Member
Member # 36

posted

The teachings of the Roman Catholic Curch are no more true Christian then are the teachings of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints, or the teachings from the Kingdom Hall of the Jehovah's Witnesses, although they all three speak of Jesus.

Their faith is not by faith alone in Christ alone, but their faith and trust is in the false sacraments of their church and the idolitry of Mariology.

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http://www.justforcatholics.org/a36.htm

Do Catholics Believe in Jesus?

Question: I am a Roman Catholic. Why can't you accept that Catholics believe in Jesus Christ as our Saviour just like Baptists and other Christians? Why does it matter in what form we express our faith? Is it not more important that we pray to God, acknowledge Jesus as our Saviour, and try to live as a good and faithful servant?

Answer: It is not enough to say that “Catholics believe in Jesus Christ” since there are true and false kinds of belief. Saving faith is a gift of God, by which His children rely on Jesus Christ for salvation. Counterfeit faith is deceptively similar, but it is powerless and useless to save. While I sincerely hope that there are many Catholics who genuinely believe in Jesus Christ for salvation, yet there are reasons for serious concern. I ask you to read carefully the following checklist and examine yourself before God whether you really believe in Jesus Christ or not.

1. Assent

Faith implies the correct understanding of, and assent to, the teaching of the Bible about Christ. The Catholic Church rejects the various heresies about the person of Christ, such as the Arian denial of His Deity. I thank God that the Catholic Church continues to uphold the great truths on the Deity and incarnation, death and bodily resurrection of Christ, as expressed in the ancient creeds:

We believe in one Lord, Jesus Christ,
the only Son of God,
eternally begotten of the Father,
God from God, Light from Light,
true God from true God,
begotten, not made,
of one being with the Father.
Through Him all things were made.
For us and for our salvation
He came down from heaven:
by the power of the Holy Spirit
He became incarnate from the Virgin Mary,
and was made man.
For our sake He was crucified under Pontius Pilate;
He suffered death and was buried.
On the third day He rose again
in accordance with the Scriptures;
He ascended into heaven
and is seated at the right hand of the Father.
He will come again in glory
to judge the living and the dead,
and His kingdom will have no end.

It is basic to know the biblical facts about Jesus Christ as expressed in the creed, and believe them to be true.

2. Trust

The Catholic doctrine on the person of Christ is biblical and true. But doctrinal orthodoxy is not sufficient by itself. For salvation, it is not enough to give your assent to the truths about Christ - even the demons recognized Jesus as the Son of God. More than accepting the doctrines on Christ as true, the sinner must also entrust himself to Him. The Christian does not merely believe something about Christ; the Christian believes in Christ.

* For God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him should not perish but have everlasting life (John 3:16).
* Jesus said to her, 'I am the resurrection and the life. He who believes in Me, though he may die, he shall live' (John 11:25).
* To Him all the prophets witness that, through His name, whoever believes in Him will receive remission of sins (Acts 10:43).
* To demonstrate at the present time His righteousness, that He might be just and the justifier of the one who has faith in Jesus (Romans 3:26).
* Therefore it is also contained in the Scripture, 'Behold, I lay in Zion, a chief cornerstone, elect, precious, and he who believes on Him will by no means be put to shame' (1 Peter 2:6).

As a Catholic you have been taught true and biblical teaching about Jesus. Now, do you believe in Him? - resting by faith, trusting in, relying on Jesus for salvation?

3. Living faith

St James warns us against a "faith" that is dead, and therefore impotent to save. His warning applies equally to all professing Christians, whether they’re called Catholic, Protestants, or by any other title they may choose. Someone may say, “I have faith,” even though a sterile and godless life contradicts the empty boasting. My country is predominantly Catholic. Over 96% of the population is Roman Catholic, but a good number of them couldn’t care less about the Gospel or the Law of God. They are preoccupied with their business and pleasure, and have no scruples to cheat, steal, slander and swear. Can that "faith" save them? Can such "faith" save anyone? Let us not fool ourselves!

4. Faith in the risen Christ

Christians believe in a living Saviour. “Christ died for our sins according to the Scriptures, and that He was buried, and that He rose again the third day according to the Scriptures” (1 Corinthians 15:3, 4). Once He died on the cross, giving Himself as a sacrifice for sin; now He lives in glory forevermore, enthroned at the right hand of God. He does not need to offer Himself over and over again, for God forgives and perfects all His people on the infinite merits of that one finished sacrifice of His Son.

Though the Roman Church formally acknowledges that Christ offered a sacrifice "once for all", yet it also teaches that the sacrifice of Christ is carried on, perpetuated and renewed daily during the mass. It is significant that a crucifix is placed over the main altar in Catholic churches, reminding the people that Christ is being offered as a sacrifice for sin during the mass.

The need to renew and perpetuate the sacrifice implies that the work of Christ on the cross of Calvary was not sufficient to take away sin. If you knock on the door and nobody answers, you will have to knock again. But if your friend answers and opens the door, there will be no need to renew your effort. Your purpose would have been achieved.

Do you believe that the work of Christ on the cross is finished? That by one sacrifice He has accomplished eternal redemption for His people? Or do you believe that His sacrifice must be renewed daily to satisfy God’s justice for your sins? Do you believe in a dying or a living Saviour?

5. Faith in Christ alone

Jesus Christ is the one and only Saviour, and therefore our faith must be exclusively in Him alone. St Peter underlines this fundamental truth, saying: "Nor is there salvation in any other, for there is no other name under heaven given among men by which we must be saved" (Acts 4:12).

Sadly, Roman Catholic piety leads many Catholics to turn their eyes from Jesus towards Mary. They still "believe in Jesus", of course, yet their heart is not reassured. They apply to someone else. “St John Damascene had no hesitancy in addressing our Lady in these words: Pure and immaculate Queen, save me, and deliver me from eternal damnation. St Bonaventure called Mary the salvation of those who invoke her” (The Glories of Mary, St Alphonsus Liguori).

You have to choose between the advise of the Catholic saint, who tells you to invoke the name of Mary for salvation, and the inspired words uttered by the apostle Peter, who solemnly warns that Jesus is the only name given among us whereby we must be saved.

6. Complete Faith in Christ

True faith in Christ is manifest in good works, yet the believer does not rely on the merits of his works for salvation. It is “to him who does not work but believes on Him who justifies the ungodly, his faith is accounted for righteousness” (Romans 4:5). That does not mean that sterile and idle "faith" can save. The apostle Paul does not contradict his own writings where he insists that faith works by love, and that those who continue to live in sin will not inherit the kingdom of God. Rather, Paul is speaking about the Christian’s motive for doing good works. Paul asserts that the Christian “does not work” for the purpose of justification. “God imputes (ascribes, reckons, credits) righteousness apart from works.” The Christian rests by faith in Jesus, and God reckons the believer "righteous" for Christ’s sake.

Ask him, “Does God reckon you as righteous because you do good works?”

The Christian answers, “No, my best obedience is imperfect. God reckons me as righteous because Jesus’ blood washes me from all sin.”

“Well then, why do you perform good works at all? Why are you so concerned with obedience?”

“I obey Christ’s commands because I love Him! It’s the natural way to show my gratitude to the love that bought my salvation with an infinite price, His blood.”

Contrast this with the Catholic mentality. He speaks about Christ, God’s love, the cross, and faith, and yet his religion will not permit him to trust in Christ completely for salvation. He is urged to do religious works and perform penance in order to expiate his sins and to merit the grace of God. Good works should be the manifestation of faith, but in this case, they are the evidence of an incomplete confidence in Christ.

Conclusion

A mountain climber is stranded on a ledge. A rope is lowered from the rescue helicopter hovering above. He grabs the rope with one hand, but with the other hand he keeps holding on firmly to the rock. His trust in the rescuers is as good as no trust at all. Unless he lets go of everything and latches onto the rope, he cannot be saved.

Do you believe in the Lord Jesus Christ; do you believe that His work on the cross is perfect and finished? Is there evidence that your faith is genuine? Do you trust in Him alone? Do you trust in Him completely? Are you holding on to anything or anybody else? Or are you embracing Him by faith as your Lord and Saviour?

Copyright Dr Joe Mizzi. Permission to copy and distribute this article without textual changes.

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A Servant of Christ,
Drew

1 Tim. 3:
16: And without controversy great is the mystery of godliness: God was manifest in the flesh..

Posts: 3978 | From: Council Grove, KS USA | Registered: Jun 2002 | IP: Logged |

nan29
Advanced Member
Member # 5761

posted

I don't think Andy is teaching Catholism, he's stating his opinion, and also stating a fact: Catholism is a Christian religion, whether people here want to admit it or not! It is what it is.

Posts: 38 | From: New York | Registered: May 2006 | IP: Logged |

KnowHim
Admin
Member # 1

posted

Andy if you are looking for a Catholic message board you are in the wrong place.

This is a Christian message board and not a Catholic message board.

Accusing the Catholic church of apostasy is plain wrong

You do not have to agree with me as you can believe as you wish, but we do not condone teaching Catholic doctrine on this message board.

Period

If that is what you want to do I suggest you go to a Catholic message board.

Thank you,
David

Posts: 3276 | From: Charlestown, IN | Registered: Jun 2002 | IP: Logged |

ahar
Advanced Member
Member # 5810

posted

quote:
Originally posted by David:
Its called "idolatry," and it’s the oldest sin in the Book. Idolaters will not inherit the kingdom of God.

I always thought that the oldest sin was murder (a la Cain and Able) but I could very well be wrong.

Anyway, I digress (bit of a habit really). Ireally don't agree with David's post that seems to say that Catholics, by their very nature, are different from Christians. Catholicism is a christian religion - they have the fundamental belief that Christ was the Son of God, died on the cross for the forgivness of our sins and rose again on the third day. If they truly repent and ask for forgivness from God they will be saved - I do not see the way that they pray, or the use of icons in the church, the use of confession or anything else changes that basic tenent.

If this is not the case, you are saying that the resurrection does not clean you of all sin, just those that don't involve praying to saints. Even after asking for fogivness, we all continue to sin - it's in our nature. Does this mean that we are no longer saved - that you have to continually ask for forgiveness to make sure that you haven't lied to someone and die suddenly before you can 'confess' it?

Accusing the Catholic church of apostasy is plain wrong - we may not think that they are heading down the right path on some issues, but they agree with us on the main point[ - their God is our God, their saviour is our saviour.

--------------------
Cheers

Andy

Posts: 290 | From: UK | Registered: Jun 2006 | IP: Logged |

KnowHim
Admin
Member # 1

posted

quote:
Originally posted by Chuck Schwab:
I'm sorry, I thought Christians were welcomed here. I was raised Catholic but disagree with the church and do not attend or worship in their church. I am in search of God and truth and I question why you give off to me in my opinion, a hatred towards people who believe in Jesus and God, just like you. But now the way you present yourself makes me begin to doubt christianity. And if you are making me doubt christianity, then you are not looking to save people and help people which you claim to do. If you say I am just weak and ignoring the truth, teach me, don't explode into versus from the bible. But I am wasting my time, you could care less about me and my search for God. Thanks for confusing me more.

I won't bother any of you again.

Everyone is welcome here. False teaching is not.

“and I question why you give off to me in my opinion, a hatred towards people who believe in Jesus and God”

Satan believes in Jesus and God but Satan is not saved and is on his way to hell.

“But now the way you present yourself makes me begin to doubt christianity.”

It is not about Christianity, as this word has changed over the years. It is about knowing and serving Jesus Christ and Him only. No one but yourself can make the correct choice for you. I will not have to answer for you on judgement day, nor will you answer for me. Seek to know the God of Abraham, and of Isaac, and of Jacob.

For the preaching of the cross is to them that perish foolishness; but unto us which are saved it is the power of God.

“And if you are making me doubt christianity, then you are not looking to save people and help people which you claim to do.”

Being tolerant to false teaching is not a way to help people come to know the Lord Jesus Christ. It would not be love to let you continue to believe in a false gospel and not say anything about it. It would be like letting a blind man continue to walk toward a cliff and not try to stop him.

Creating a god to suite yourself? Its called "idolatry," and it’s the oldest sin in the Book. Idolaters will not inherit the kingdom of God.

Jesus is the One who said that He is the only way to the Father. For Christians to say that there are other ways to find peace with God is to bear false testimony. In one sweeping statement, Jesus discards all other religions as a means of finding forgiveness of sins. This agrees with other Scriptures: "Neither is there salvation in any other: for there is no other name under heaven given among men, whereby we must be saved" (Acts 4:12), and "For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus" (1 Timothy 2:5).

If I didn’t care I would not waste my time in trying to stop you from walking over the cliff!

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Posts: 3276 | From: Charlestown, IN | Registered: Jun 2002 | IP: Logged |

Eduardo Grequi
Advanced Member
Member # 3984

posted

Why then there be any division amongst you!

Whether we are baptists, catholics, pentecostal, methodist. lutheran, anabaptists, adventist etc...

A house divided against itself will not stand!

How much time will it take to make a new teaching a tradition?

For everything that makes Jesus the Christ, Satan will mimick it in deception to include the virgin birth of a holy one. Have herd about artificial insemination. Not knowing a man therefore technically a virgin.

Can a woman be a virgin, if she carries a seed of a man?

First and formost. the church was founded in Jerusalem and not Rome. Roman Empire could not silence the supremacy of Jesus the Christ, so they mingled it with the traditions of the Roman Empire.

The supremacy of Rome as the head of the church came about thru a terranical religious war betweem Constenople (Instabul), Jerusalem, Rome and Alexandria. Because of this holy war, the other three ended up paying homage to Rome. You see during a time in mans history an evil plague of death came on scene affecting the other three and killed most of the followers The Roman Bishop said he placed an entradict on those opposing her and won.The Roman Catholic Church, is a church of contradictories and uniquely made of non believers and believers alike. although like Baha'i which came many years later still will be accountable to Him. I do believe the Cathedrals, the stations of the cross, and some of the brothers and sisters within the catholic denominations are more on fire for Jesus, then a baptist.

Satan is well aware that unity is the key to thriving. Jesus too knows this and affirms this. When two or three gathered in my name, there am I a midst.

Back in the days of Babylon during the time of the Tower of Babel. the people united in cause, and belief to reach to the abode of God, in the midst of this building God had conversation amongst his being, and decided willfully to confuse the language of adam.

It is not the first time Satan has tried to use adam as a palm for his particular unity.

When it is all said and done- the world watches Christiandom and judge the leader by the actions of his followers. I do receive informations from the Voice of Martyrs and I am quite amazed how much catholics and other christian have in common. Outside the western civilization, a person of normal upbringing sees no difference between a catholic and a protestant. In China, if a believer of Christ, refuses to acknowledge the ruler of China as the head of all of belief, they will be punished so severly that some trully dies. Within terrany believers unite regardless what they call themselves. And for some non western countries, the identifying marker making a person a follower of Christ, is the cross.

I am neither a Catholic or Islamic. I am a Messianic Jew, who has come to terms that Jesus the Christ is the son of God ( Bar-arrabas) my Messias. In striking of words, it is quite ironic that the one freed on the day of the cruxifition his name was called Bararrabs which means " son of His father).

Trully Jesus being son of His father the Saviour of man (if man believes and are baptised and not the other way around), but having been crucified.

The hardships of catholics and protestants marrying one another is what my marriage is about.
My wife for a long time, would not consider herself Christian only catholic. I told her do you believe Jesus to be your only way to heavem. She told me yes. and I said that is what a Christian is. A follower of Christ.

I do believe one day, that a person will come to power in Rome, who will fool everyone and be the Devil incarnate. if not in Rome than in Baha'i.

In Bahaism, the one who is holy is the current prophet of era, when god would bring a new prophet then the other prophets are obsolete.

THIS RELIGION BAHAI IS CENTERED IN ISRAEL, AND IS TRULY ECUMENICAL. MORE THAN CATHOLICISM.

REMEMBER MY DEAR BROTHERES AND SISTERS. WE WALK WITH A HOLY LIGHT AND THAT IS JESUS. We are not holy apart from Jesus. There is no man on the face of earth who is God incarnate. except Jesus the Christ.

Posts: 771 | From: Belvidere, IL | Registered: Oct 2004 | IP: Logged |

TEXASGRANDMA
Advanced Member
Member # 847

posted

You are searching for the truth and we have shared the truth with you. You admit that you disagree with the Catholic Church, so why does it bother you when we tell you the truth about the Church. We are not picking on the Catholic Church, there are other denomanations that try to put salvation as being earned by works, but the Bible is clear, salvation is a gift from God. We cannot earn it. We cannot pray our unsalved loved ones in to Heaven. Mary cannot save us. Only the blood of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ. I can understand why it is painful to hear that what you have been taught your whole life is wrong. I am sorry that you feel attacked. But no one has set out to attack you, but we will attack any Church that tries to make salvation about works. Jesus died for our sins, because we can't save ourselves no matter how good we try to be.
David has made it clear that this is a Christian board, but he has not asked you to leave. He is asking that you respect that this is a Christian board. A board that points the way to Jesus and no other as the way to Heaven.
betty

--------------------
Luk 21:28 And when these things begin to come to pass, then look up, and lift up your heads; for your redemption draweth nigh.
http://www.indieheaven.com/artists/mm (son-in-law)http://www.myspace.com/mireles

Posts: 4985 | From: Washington State | Registered: Jan 2003 | IP: Logged |

Chuck Schwab
Community Member
Member # 5857

posted

I'm sorry, I thought Christians were welcomed here. I was raised Catholic but disagree with the church and do not attend or worship in their church. I am in search of God and truth and I question why you give off to me in my opinion, a hatred towards people who believe in Jesus and God, just like you. But now the way you present yourself makes me begin to doubt christianity. And if you are making me doubt christianity, then you are not looking to save people and help people which you claim to do. If you say I am just weak and ignoring the truth, teach me, don't explode into versus from the bible. But I am wasting my time, you could care less about me and my search for God. Thanks for confusing me more.

I won't bother any of you again.

Posts: 12 | From: Mount Joy, Pennsylvania | Registered: Jun 2006 | IP: Logged |

KnowHim
Admin
Member # 1

posted

quote:
Originally posted by Chuck Schwab:
After all, aren't we all Christians?

No we are not all Christians.

We do not teach catholicism on this message board, nor do we tolerate anyone coming on here and teaching it.

Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me. John 14:6 (KJV)

Jesus is the only way. Jesus is the only high Priest. No works can or will save you.

Just a note, this is not a Catholic message board. One needs only to know Jesus Christ as their Lord and Savior. He alone can save you and nothing else. We believe in all Ten Commandments here. Especially the second one that the Catholic’s removed. And it was written in stone, it states:

Exodus 20:4 -5 (KJV)
Thou shalt not make unto thee any graven image, or any likeness of any thing that is in heaven above, or that is in the earth beneath, or that is in the water under the earth: Thou shalt not bow down thyself to them, nor serve them: for I the LORD thy God am a jealous God, visiting the iniquity of the fathers upon the children unto the third and fourth generation of them that hate me;…

I know this commandment doesn’t exist in the Catholic catechism, but it is there in the KJV Bible and on the Ten Commandments that Moses received written in stone, by God own hand.

So please do some research on this subject. Below is a little story that may help:

Do/Done Religion Store

------------------------------------

A modern pilgrim fleeing from The City of Destruction came upon a brightly-lighted building with this bold title. Knowing the need of his heart was true religion, the pilgrim entered the store.

Explaining his need of deliverance, the proprietor was quick to point out the advantages of many of his wares. The pilgrim was first introduced to an ancient Eastern religion, and he marvelled at the multiplicity of gods that was being presented.

"The advantage of this Hindu religion," said the proprietor, "is that it offers not just one god, but thousands or even millions. Some of these may seem strange to you, but each offers its own formulas for life, which are expounded by learned gurus who have devoted their lives to meditative peace. This is one of the best sellers we have today, as it is beginning to catch the attention of Western civilization."

Pilgrim was thoughtful. "Does this give me an assured salvation?"

"Oh, yes. One of our gods tells you that if you go to the holiest spot in India, shave all the hair off your head, and throw it in the river, you get 1,000,000 years in heaven for every hair."

Pilgrim, who was bald, didn't find this too comforting, and, he thought, there is still something I must do. "What other religions do you offer?"

"We have a good modern religion that has received much lore from the East, but is now available to Westerners. It even incorporates the ancient truth that men can become gods, and is being packaged very attractively in America. Its foundations were a bit shaky to start with, as its founder delved into many occult practices, but it has recently achieved great respectability."

"What does this religion demand of me?"

"After your initial conviction of Joseph Smith's prophetic office, you only have to follow the various initiation rites and live your life in accordance with these."

"Does that give me the assurance of heaven?"

"Better than that. You will become a god yourself, and with your plural wives will produce spiritual offspring that will inhabit new worlds, over which you will be in control."

"That sounds interesting. Does this religion solve the sin problem which has been troubling me?"

"The sin of Adam has been paid for by the atoning work of Jesus Christ, but you must atone for your own sins."

"Don't you have anything that really deals with sin?"

"I'm glad you asked, because I have been saving the good one until last. It has a beautiful way to deal with sin, and it starts when you are just a baby. The initiation rite is called Baptism, and it forgives your original sin, and, if you are an adult, all actual sins you may have committed."

"That means then that I am sure of going to Heaven."

"Well, not exactly. You see, as you grow older you commit other sins, but don't worry this religion takes care of them too."

"How?"

"There are a total of seven sacraments, one of which is called Penance, which enables you to confess your sins to God through a man whom He has appointed. This absolves you of sin."

"That means I am sure of going to Heaven?"

"Well, not exactly. There is still punishment due for the sins that have been forgiven, but this religion makes provision for that. You can take away this punishment by doing good works, praying certain prayers and enduring suffering yourself."

"If I do enough of these, am I sure of going to Heaven?"

"Well, not exactly. You never really know if everything is taken care of, but this religion gives you many helps along the way that will aid in your salvation."

"What are some of these?"

"I'm glad you asked that. Let me open this display case, so you can view first-hand all the benefits of this religion to help you attain heaven. Do you see this little piece of cloth with the strings attached. That is called a scapular, and many Roman Catholic teachers tell you that Mary has promised that if you die wearing this you will not go to Hell, and that she would offer you quick release from purgatory."

"So then I would be sure of going to Heaven."

"Well, not exactly. You must be sure you wear the scapular with the right dispositions, but if you are not sure you have done enough, there is much more you can do."

The proprietor pointed out to Pilgrim the many wonders in the display-case of Roman Catholicism. There were Rosaries, Blessed Palms, Ashes, Holy Water, Prayers to the Immaculate Heart, the Sacred Heart, the Holy Face of Jesus, and the Shoulder Wound of Christ. There were exciting stories of sants who, through their virtue, had gone to Heaven and now leave you their excess merits to help sinners along the way. There were pilgrimages, the Stations of the Cross, weekly Mass, the church's blessing on your marriage and even relics of saints long dead that aid in your salvation.

"I could show you much more," said the proprietor, "but this sample gives you a little example of how powerful this Church is to take care of the sin problem and assure you of Heaven."

"After I use all these devotions, then would I be sure of Heaven?"

"Well, not exactly. But we do have the testimony of one of the learned doctors of the Church. His name was Thomas Aquinas, and he was responsible for explaining the central mystery of the Church in the Mass and Transubstantiation."

"Transubstantiation? Whatever is that?"

"Oh, I forgot to tell you. This is one of the richest jewels of this Roman Catholic religion. You see, her priests are given the power to say certain words during their weekly religious celebration which actually change a small round wafer into the Body, Blood, Soul and Divinity of Jesus Christ the Saviour. Then, after he offers the sacrifice, he gives you the Host to partake of, so you can have communion with Jesus Christ."

"Then I would certainly be ready for Heaven."

"Well, not exactly. But it all helps."

"How can I know the work for my salvation is done?"

"Getting back to Aquinas, he taught that, all things being equal, you could have a moral certitude of Heaven, even though you must go through Purgatory, where you atone for the rest of your sins."

"But I fled the City of Destruction because I felt the enormity of my sins, and, as a mortal finite human being, could not possibly hope to accomplish my own atonement. In all of this great store, do you not have one religion that will not call me to do something to get to Heaven, but will provide a sure means?"

"Well, we do have this one old-fashioned remedy, but I'm sure you are much too wise a person to be interested in this."

"Please tell me about it," pleaded Pilgrim.

"All right, if you insist. But I must warn you that if you take this religion you will be thought strange by all the folks around you who have been here and have paid good money for the religions of this age, not to mention the millions who through birth have found themselves in one of them, and are quite content to remain just as they are. This religion might even cause you to confront some of them, and that is why I hesitate to mention it to you. Today we are all for brotherhood, not confrontation."

"If it will guarantee forgiveness of my sins, it is what I need."

"I'm afraid I can't explain it very well, so let me find an old Book that tells all about it. I haven't seen it for some time, but I'm sure if I search these dusty shelves, it is here somewhere."

The proprietor began to poke around the corners of his stock, and at length produced a volume that he handed to Pilgrim.

"This may be what you want, my friend, but if you don't find it, come back, because I'm sure I can interest you in something else."

Pilgrim walked out of the store, and opened the Book. As he began to read the pages, the light of God began to dawn upon him (Psalm 119:130). He fully understood his sin and his need, as the Holy Spirit took the Words of God and drove them into his heart. He then read the blessed story of Calvary, and, responding to the urging of the Spirit of God, trusted Christ alone for salvation.

Then he continued to read, and each precious word underlined the work of Christ on his behalf. Knowing God's wonderful salvation, he felt impelled to visit his friends to tell them the good news. He had been told of many religious things he could DO, but God had shown him the work was DONE.

Are you such a pilgrim? Do you trust a completed (DONE) work, or are you trying to DO? Are you telling others this blessed news?

--------------------
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Posts: 3276 | From: Charlestown, IN | Registered: Jun 2002 | IP: Logged |

wparr
Advanced Member
Member # 891

posted

quote:
Originally posted by Chuck Schwab:

quote:
Originally posted by TEXASGRANDMA:
.
I am sorry Chuck, if you find the truth painful.
betty
Oh no, the truth isn't painful at all. I know that the truth is God is love. Why that isn't painful at all, it makes me feel great!

God is love - TRUE

BUT:

Yahweh is a jealous God.

Deuteronomy 4:23-24
(23) "So watch yourselves, that you do not forget the covenant of Yahweh your God which He made with you, and make for yourselves a graven image in the form of anything against which Yahweh your God has commanded you.
(24) "For Yahweh your God is a consuming fire, a jealous God.

Deuteronomy 6:14-15
(14) "You shall not follow other gods, any of the gods of the peoples who surround you,
(15) for the LORD your God in the midst of you is a jealous God; otherwise the anger of the LORD your God will be kindled against you, and He will wipe you off the face of the earth.

Joshua 24:19-20
(19) Then Joshua said to the people, "You will not be able to serve the LORD, for He is a holy God. He is a jealous God; He will not forgive your transgression or your sins.
(20) "If you forsake the LORD and serve foreign gods, then He will turn and do you harm and consume you after He has done good to you."

Yahweh ia jealous and avenging God.

Nahum 1:2
(2) A jealous and avenging God is the LORD; The LORD is avenging and wrathful. The LORD takes vengeance on His adversaries, And He reserves wrath for His enemies.

But above ALL - Yahweh is a Holy Holy Holy God.

Isaiah 6:3-5
(3) And one called out to another and said, "Holy, Holy, Holy, is Yahweh of hosts, The whole earth is full of His glory."
(4) And the foundations of the thresholds trembled at the voice of him who called out, while the temple was filling with smoke.
(5) Then I said, "Woe is me, for I am ruined! Because I am a man of unclean lips, And I live among a people of unclean lips; For my eyes have seen the King, Yahweh of hosts."

Revelation 4:8
And the four living creatures, each one of them having six wings, are full of eyes around and within; and day and night they do not cease to say, "HOLY, HOLY, HOLY is YAHWEH GOD, THE ALMIGHTY, WHO WAS AND WHO IS AND WHO IS TO COME."

.

Posts: 1203 | From: Eagle Nest, NM | Registered: Jan 2003 | IP: Logged |

wparr
Advanced Member
Member # 891

posted

quote:
Originally posted by nan29:

quote:
Is Yahweh giving HIS Church a prophetic warning against catholicism through Peter?

2 Peter 2:1-3
(1) But false prophets also arose among the people, just as there will also be false teachers among you, who will secretly introduce destructive heresies, even denying the Master who bought them, bringing swift destruction upon themselves.
(2) Many will follow their sensuality, and because of them the way of the truth will be maligned;
(3) and in their greed they will exploit you with false words; their judgment from long ago is not idle, and their destruction is not asleep.

I don't want to get in the middle of an argument here but when I read the first post that started this thread I can't help but think this is actually a warning against Muslims. Mohammed was a prophet who denied the Master. He said Jesus was just a prophet and that there was no resurrection. Talk about maligning the truth! There are many destructive heresies in the Quran. And as far as numerous, there are 1.3 billion Muslims and 2.0 billion Christians, however Islam is growing faster than Christianity and it is estimated in less than a hundred years, Muslims will outnumber Christians! A house divided among itself will not stand! Let's stick together as Christians and look to where the real evil is in the world!

This doesn't work with muslims, they replaced the truthnwith their OWN version.

They don't use the koran alongside The Scriptures.

while:

The rcc lays the their traditions and papal decrees alongside The Scriptures.

mormons lay their book of mormons alongside scriptures.

wof lay their properity =message alongside The Scriptures.

Many denominations lay their dnominational doctrines along side The Scriptures.

Posts: 1203 | From: Eagle Nest, NM | Registered: Jan 2003 | IP: Logged |

nan29
Advanced Member
Member # 5761

posted

quote:
I would like to apologize to anyone and everyone whom has come across this post I made. My anger is my flaws of humanly flesh. Part of me still feels you are attacking a group of people much like Hitler did the jews or any other reference where people singled out a religious group. These are my opinions which I am entitled. I do admit my failures and I have failed in showing the love that Jesus has taught us. Again, I apologize to you. But no matter how intelligent you may feel your are about "the truth", you should also realize you need to be a bit more humble about yourselves and your knowlede. God is the answer, he is the truth and the light. I wish you all the health and blessings the Lord can bestow on you.

Thanks Chuck that was a nice post. Although you're not entirely wrong but neither is anyone else. We all have our opinions and our interpretation of the truth as the Holy Spirit communicates it to us. We all need to be tolerant of each other because we're all in this together. We all want the same thing and that is Salvation through Jesus Christ.

Posts: 38 | From: New York | Registered: May 2006 | IP: Logged |

Chuck Schwab
Community Member
Member # 5857

posted

quote:
Originally posted by TEXASGRANDMA:
.
I am sorry Chuck, if you find the truth painful.
betty

Oh no, the truth isn't painful at all. I know that the truth is God is love. Why that isn't painful at all, it makes me feel great!

Posts: 12 | From: Mount Joy, Pennsylvania | Registered: Jun 2006 | IP: Logged |

TEXASGRANDMA
Advanced Member
Member # 847

posted

I have no pride in myself and most people who know me would say I suffer from low esteem. But, I would be sinning if I knew someone was going to hell and I kept my mouth shut. It is not prideful to warn the lost.
To give people false hope is no different from those who teach universal salvation. It is wrong.
I am sorry Chuck, if you find the truth painful.
betty

--------------------
Luk 21:28 And when these things begin to come to pass, then look up, and lift up your heads; for your redemption draweth nigh.
http://www.indieheaven.com/artists/mm (son-in-law)http://www.myspace.com/mireles

Posts: 4985 | From: Washington State | Registered: Jan 2003 | IP: Logged |

Chuck Schwab
Community Member
Member # 5857

posted

quote:
Originally posted by Chuck Schwab:
So do you people lashing out at Catholics believe that we should all don white hoods and robes and speak against Katholics, Koons, and Kikes under a burning cross at night?

You seem to embrace much of what the KKK would. Should you join your white arian nation who believes in God and spread your hatebreeding ways to our children? After all, maybe we can make the world 10 times worse so God will come sooner. Or maybe talk about Charlie Manson some more and learn of his brainwashing techniques, I heard Jim Jones was pretty good at that as well.

Or maybe you should try to find something constructive to do like reaching out to nonbelievers in Christ and help them find the Lord. Instead, you preach your trash to a bunch of noncatholics trying to instill your hate into impressionable minds. Find a Catholic forum and tell them how you feel, at least you are directing it towards the right group of people then instead of people who already agree with you. Truly I tell you, you have lost love in your heart.

This is not directed towards everyone. The guilty parties will try to defend their "godly" actions.

I would like to apologize to anyone and everyone whom has come across this post I made. My anger is my flaws of humanly flesh. Part of me still feels you are attacking a group of people much like Hitler did the jews or any other reference where people singled out a religious group. These are my opinions which I am entitled. I do admit my failures and I have failed in showing the love that Jesus has taught us. Again, I apologize to you. But no matter how intelligent you may feel your are about "the truth", you should also realize you need to be a bit more humble about yourselves and your knowlede. God is the answer, he is the truth and the light. I wish you all the health and blessings the Lord can bestow on you.

Sincerely,
Chuck

Posts: 12 | From: Mount Joy, Pennsylvania | Registered: Jun 2006 | IP: Logged |

TEXASGRANDMA
Advanced Member
Member # 847

posted

I do believe we need to warn those who are attending the Catholic Church and those Mega-Churches. I remember as a kid if a person said there were Catholic, which assumed they were going to Heaven, sadly they do too. Someone needs to take courage and warn are friends that they need a personal relationship with Jesus or they will miss our on Heaven. We have no problem telling our friends about a good sale at the mall, but we sit quietly while those around us think they are going to Heaven because they were baptized as a baby, when we know that is not true.
If we miss a sale that is nothing but being in hell for eternity that is everything.
I can tell you that this will not always be easy. I lost a friend when she could not get me to agree that it was okay to use God's name in vain because she was baptized as a baby and so she was automatically saved. One thing this young lady cannot tell God is that I watched her making a mistake and was quiet about it.
betty
betty

--------------------
Luk 21:28 And when these things begin to come to pass, then look up, and lift up your heads; for your redemption draweth nigh.
http://www.indieheaven.com/artists/mm (son-in-law)http://www.myspace.com/mireles

Posts: 4985 | From: Washington State | Registered: Jan 2003 | IP: Logged |

nan29
Advanced Member
Member # 5761

posted

I just read your post Texas Grandma, and I think you're right with one exception - we should pray for ALL the Christians, no matter what the denomination. Many Christians are Christians in name only and do not follow Christ, it's not just Catholics. Christians really need to stick together. Instead of criticizing each other we need to spread the word of the Lord and help others know the real Christ. We should also pray that all Christians see each other as "brothers and sisters in faith".

Posts: 38 | From: New York | Registered: May 2006 | IP: Logged |

yahsway
Advanced Member
Member # 3738

posted

Good post TG!

Posts: 1238 | From: Tennessee | Registered: Aug 2004 | IP: Logged |

nan29
Advanced Member
Member # 5761

posted

quote:
In the new and revised catachesim of the Catholic church, they have added that the Muslims are their "Brothers in the Faith" while still calling the Protestants their "erring Brothers in the Faith".

Yahsway, thanks for enlightening me on this. This is scary. I want to look further into this.

quote:
The prophetic warning today is not just against the practices/teaching of the Catholic Church. But many denominations as well.

You're right. This is a warning to all. Not just catholics but also protestants. There are many unscrupulous and greedy evangelists whose sole concern is filling their wallets and will simply tell people what they want to hear without following scripture.

Posts: 38 | From: New York | Registered: May 2006 | IP: Logged |

TEXASGRANDMA
Advanced Member
Member # 847

posted

One of the biggest lies satan uses is to get people to make the mistake that we are all worshipping the same God. After Sept 11th our own President said that same lie. There are many Americans who buy in to that lie. I can guarantee the Muslim don't believe that lie. If they did they would not want to kill the Jews and hate Americans.

I believe that the devil is using this lie to usher in the one world religion which has no problem with people praying to the “god” of their choice but has big problems with those who pray to Jesus. Why? Because the devil knows the truth, that there is only one true God and that is the God of Abraham and the God of every Christian.

As far as the original topic, I believe the Catholic Church is leading many people straight to hell. I know personally a few Catholics who feel as long as you attend mass once a week you can live like you want and go to Heaven. We have people who think because they were baptized as a baby that they will go to Heaven, even though they use the Lord’s name in vain, and haven’t even been back in the Catholic Church since then, except for weddings and funerals. I do believe that the Catholic Church will have to answer to God for not teaching the truth. But there are Catholics that are Christians. Mother Teresa was one. I will never forget hearing her two weeks before she died. She was asked by the press if Princess Diana would go to Heaven (they were good friends), she said only if she accepted Jesus as her Savior. If every Catholic Church would begin to teach their people that it is not how many times you attend mass, how many Hail Mary’s you say, but it is all about asking Jesus in to your heart and living for him, they would have a revival. I am not coming down on Catholics because we have Protestant Mega-Churches sprouting up all over our Country who have stopped preaching the truth of God’s Word, in order to boost their numbers. They too will be judged by God.
This is not a time to be looking down on anyone but pray for our Catholic friends that they will know the truth and accept Jesus as their Savior and Lord and pray for these Preachers in theses Mega-Churches that they would be more concerned about the souls of their people then about how many people attend and how much money is in the offering plate.

--------------------
Luk 21:28 And when these things begin to come to pass, then look up, and lift up your heads; for your redemption draweth nigh.
http://www.indieheaven.com/artists/mm (son-in-law)http://www.myspace.com/mireles

Posts: 4985 | From: Washington State | Registered: Jan 2003 | IP: Logged |

yahsway
Advanced Member
Member # 3738

posted

Nan29, I think you are closer to the truth than you realize, that is about the Muslims. Consider this though.

In the new and revised catachesim of the Catholic church, they have added that the Muslims are their "Brothers in the Faith" while still calling the Protestants their "erring Brothers in the Faith".

The Catholic church has embraced the Muslims as brothers because of their stance on the Virgin Mary. Muslims believe that Jesus was born of a Virgin named Mary, but still claim He is not the Son of God. But because they hold Mary in High esteem, they are reckoned as Brothers in the Faith. But because we as Protestants came out from among them mostly in part due to Martin Luthur, we are considered erring brothers and we would be considered complete brothers if we turn and come back to the Catholic Church.

But the Israel of God, the true believers are not denominations, which are man-made, but rather are living temples that are not made with hands. There are Christians in the catholic Church and in different denominations. We are told in scripture however, that in the days towards the end of the age, that Apostacy will creep into the churches/assemblies. And it is happening now before our very eyes.

Know the scripture that says "And in that day MANY will say, "but Lord, Lord, look what we did in Your name, casting out demons, ect.." And the Lords reply is "Get away from me, I never knew you, You workers of iniquity(Lawlessness). Very sobering indeed.

The prophetic warning today is not just against the practices/teaching of the Catholic Church. But many denominations as well.

Shalom

Posts: 1238 | From: Tennessee | Registered: Aug 2004 | IP: Logged |

MentorsRiddle
Advanced Member
Member # 2108

posted

Muslims are growing so fast because of the tactics they use to gain their followers.

Eg: Follow us and our God or Die.

If you can force one generation to fllow your God then all other generations growing up with this "God" will consider it the norm and accept it blindly and forgetting where their family came from.

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With you I rise,
In you I sleep,
kneeling down I kiss your feet,
Grace abounds upon me now,
I once was lost
but now I'm found.
The gift of God dwells within,
To this love I now give in.

Posts: 1337 | From: Arkansas | Registered: Sep 2003 | IP: Logged |

nan29
Advanced Member
Member # 5761

posted

quote:
Is Yahweh giving HIS Church a prophetic warning against catholicism through Peter?

2 Peter 2:1-3
(1) But false prophets also arose among the people, just as there will also be false teachers among you, who will secretly introduce destructive heresies, even denying the Master who bought them, bringing swift destruction upon themselves.
(2) Many will follow their sensuality, and because of them the way of the truth will be maligned;
(3) and in their greed they will exploit you with false words; their judgment from long ago is not idle, and their destruction is not asleep.

I don't want to get in the middle of an argument here but when I read the first post that started this thread I can't help but think this is actually a warning against Muslims. Mohammed was a prophet who denied the Master. He said Jesus was just a prophet and that there was no resurrection. Talk about maligning the truth! There are many destructive heresies in the Quran. And as far as numerous, there are 1.3 billion Muslims and 2.0 billion Christians, however Islam is growing faster than Christianity and it is estimated in less than a hundred years, Muslims will outnumber Christians! A house divided among itself will not stand! Let's stick together as Christians and look to where the real evil is in the world!

Posts: 38 | From: New York | Registered: May 2006 | IP: Logged |

MentorsRiddle
Advanced Member
Member # 2108

posted

quote:
So do you people lashing out at Catholics believe that we should all don white hoods and robes and speak against Katholics, Koons, and Kikes under a burning cross at night?

You seem to embrace much of what the KKK would. Should you join your white arian nation who believes in God and spread your hatebreeding ways to our children? After all, maybe we can make the world 10 times worse so God will come sooner. Or maybe talk about Charlie Manson some more and learn of his brainwashing techniques, I heard Jim Jones was pretty good at that as well.

Or maybe you should try to find something constructive to do like reaching out to nonbelievers in Christ and help them find the Lord. Instead, you preach your trash to a bunch of noncatholics trying to instill your hate into impressionable minds. Find a Catholic forum and tell them how you feel, at least you are directing it towards the right group of people then instead of people who already agree with you. Truly I tell you, you have lost love in your heart.

This is not directed towards everyone. The guilty parties will try to defend their "godly" actions.

LOL

I can’t help but laugh at your child like reasoning. First off the Charlie Mansion analogy was taken way out of context from what it was meant. It was just and example of how you can believe someone is your friend and they can turn on you. Respond to this statement however you feel the need. But that is how it was meant. Nothing more.

Strange how you have a problem with me comparing a murderous radical religious group with Charlie Mansion but you don’t have a problem comparing us to the KKK…

You say we are lashing out at people of different religious structures. The last time I checked this was “The CHRISTIAN Bulletin Board System” and not a liberal religious group board system.

And as for spreading hatebreeding into our children… First off what we do with our children is of no concern to you. But I for one feel no shame or guilt in spreading the truth to my children. It is just a shame that you do not the passion to speak the truth as we do here.

As far as finding nonbelievers in Christ and helping them find the lord. WHY DO YOU THINK WE ARE HERE? We are here firstly to learn more about Christ as well to learn about different religions and groups and their thought processes.

You lash out at us for speaking our opinion and have no regard to who you offend by speaking your opinion, but God forbid if we disagree with you then you compare us to the KKK!

You say we have lost love in our hearts… What kind of love do you have when you call us these things?

And as for your little attempt to silence us from speaking the truth by saying the

quote:
This is not directed towards everyone. The guilty parties will try to defend their "godly" actions.

is pathetic.

There is no doubt in my mind you will retort with another dimwitted attempt to misguide others on this board. But if you truly with to keep trying to spread untruth why don’t you just go somewhere where it is accepted.

How little you seem in your ways.

I love you my friend and want you to stay here… but there is far better ways at expressing your opinion than insulting others and running them down in the ground because of your opinion…

--------------------
With you I rise,
In you I sleep,
kneeling down I kiss your feet,
Grace abounds upon me now,
I once was lost
but now I'm found.
The gift of God dwells within,
To this love I now give in.

Posts: 1337 | From: Arkansas | Registered: Sep 2003 | IP: Logged |

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