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Topic: The Gospel of Judas
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BORN AGAIN
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posted
As for the gospel of Judas, I say to anyone out there who is not yet part of the church of Jesus Christ, "do not read the book of Judas; it is a lie from Lucifer-Satan to deny the deity of Jesus and that Jesus was "not really who He said He was."
It is Satanic trash; don't even bother reading it; read the Bible books, for in them you can find salvation that Judas never found.
Look, Judas was a friend of Satan; Judas was a thief, the Bible says. Satan entered INTO Judas when the time was right to betray Jesus. Lucifer hates Jesus.
Don't be fooled, Judas is NOT a friend of the LORD God of Israel, but Judas IS a friend of Lucifer-Satan who is trying to steal the earth for himself:
"this is the heir; come let us kill Him, and the place will be ours". Read the Bible.
Bless the LORD God of Israel. I am BORN AGAIN in the USA by the ![[Cross]](graemlins/cross.gif)
"who you fishin' fur? who you fishin' fur?"
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helpforhomeschoolers
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Hey Dale: This was cool; Do you know what those 24 books are?
quote:
Jesus quoted from 24 different Old Testament books.
The New Testament as a whole quotes from 34 books of the Old Testament Books.
These 5 books are never quoted in the New Testament: Ezra, Nehemiah, Esther, Ecclesiastes, Song of Solomon.
Posts: 4684 | From: Southern Black Hills of South Dakota | Registered: Jun 2002
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Caretaker
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Gnosticism proliferated during the first two centuries do to their adopting Christian concepts, but with entirely different meanings.
http://www.apologeticsindex.org/188-gnosticism-bible-dictionary-article
GNOSTICISM (Gnahs’ tih kihsm) Modern designation for certain religious and philosophical perspectives that existed prior to the establishment of Christianity and for the specific systems of belief, characterized by these ideas, which emerged in the second century and later. The term “gnosticism” is derived from the Greek word gnosis (knowledge) because secret knowledge was so crucial a doctrine in gnosticism.
Gnostics placed great stress on secret teachings or traditions. This secret knowledge was not a product of intellectual effort but was given by Jesus, the Redeemer from the true deity, either in a special revelation or through His apostles. The followers of the gnostic Valentinus claimed, for example, that Theodus, a friend of Paul’s, had been the means of transmission of the secret data. The secret knowledge was superior to the revelation recorded in the New Testament and was an essential supplement to it because only this secret knowledge could awaken or bring to life the divine spark or seed within the elect. When one received the gnosis or true knowledge, one became aware of one’s true identity with a divine inner self, was set free (saved) from the dominion of the inferior creator god, and was enabled to live as a true child of the absolute and superior deity. To be able to attain to one’s true destiny as the true deity’s child, one had to engage in specific secret rituals and in some instances to memorize the secret data which enabled one to pass through the network of powers of the inferior deity who sought to keep persons imprisoned. Salvation was thus seen by the gnostics in a cosmic rather than a moral context–to be saved was to be enabled to return to the one true deity beyond this world.
The Gnostics thought faith was inferior to knowledge. The true sons of the absolute deity were saved through knowledge rather than faith. This was the feature of the various systems that gave the movements its designation: they were the Gnostics, the knowers. Yet what this precise knowledge was is quite vague. It was more a perception of one’s own existence that solved life’s mysteries for the Gnostic than it was a body of doctrine. The knowledge through which salvation came could be enhanced by participation in rituals or through instruction, but ultimately it was a self-discovery each Gnostic had to experience.
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A Servant of Christ,
Drew
1 Tim. 3:
16: And without controversy great is the mystery of godliness: God was manifest in the flesh..
Posts: 3978 | From: Council Grove, KS USA | Registered: Jun 2002
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becauseHElives
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Chaplain Bob quote:
The only Scriptures that existed during His life was the Torah (the first five books of what we call the Bible).
Wrong Chaplain Bob
Jesus quoted from 24 different Old Testament books.
The New Testament as a whole quotes from 34 books of the Old Testament Books.
These 5 books are never quoted in the New Testament: Ezra, Nehemiah, Esther, Ecclesiastes, Song of Solomon.
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Strive to enter in at the strait gate:for many, I say unto you will seek to enter in, and shall not be able. ( Luke 13:24 )
Posts: 4578 | From: Southeast Texas | Registered: Jun 2002
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Caretaker
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posted
Chaplin Bob:
The Bible indeed is our guide as followers of the Lord Jesus. But you are mistaken to make a statement like that. Jesus did not have the Bible. The only Scriptures that existed during His life was the Torah (the first five books of what we call the Bible).
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They actually had the Old Testament, and in Greek it was called the Septuagent, and was widely read in its Greek form.
http://www.jewfaq.org/torah.htm
Torah
Level: Basic
TorahThe word "Torah" is a tricky one, because it can mean different things in different contexts. In its most limited sense, "Torah" refers to the Five Books of Moses: Genesis, Exodus, Leviticus, Numbers and Deuteronomy. But the word "torah" can also be used to refer to the entire Jewish bible (the body of scripture known to non-Jews as the Old Testament and to Jews as the Tanakh or Written Torah), or in its broadest sense, to the whole body of Jewish law and teachings.
Written Torah
To Jews, there is no "Old Testament." The books that Christians call the New Testament are not part of Jewish scripture. The so-called Old Testament is known to us as Written Torah or the Tanakh.
This is a list of the books of Written Torah, in the order in which they appear in Jewish translations, with the Hebrew name of the book, a translation of the Hebrew name (where it is not the same as the English name), and English names of the books (where it is not the same as the Hebrew name). The Hebrew names of the first five books are derived from the first few words of the book. The text of each book is more or less the same in Jewish translations as what you see in Christian bibles, although there are some occasional, slight differences in the numbering of verses and there are a few significant differences in the translations.
TORAH (The Law):
* Bereishith (In the beginning...) (Genesis)
* Shemoth (The names...) (Exodus)
* Vayiqra (And He called...) (Leviticus)
* Bamidbar (In the wilderness...) (Numbers)
* Devarim (The words...) (Deuteronomy)
NEVI'IM (The Prophets):
* Yehoshua (Joshua)
* Shoftim (Judges)
* Shmuel (I &II Samuel)
* Melakhim (I & II Kings)
* Yeshayah (Isaiah)
* Yirmyah (Jeremiah)
* Yechezqel (Ezekiel)
* The Twelve (treated as one book)
o Hoshea (Hosea)
o Yoel (Joel)
o Amos
o Ovadyah (Obadiah)
o Yonah (Jonah)
o Mikhah (Micah)
o Nachum
o Chavaqquq (Habbakkuk)
o Tzefanyah (Zephaniah)
o Chaggai
o Zekharyah (Zechariah)
o Malakhi
KETHUVIM (The Writings):
* Tehillim (Psalms)
* Mishlei (Proverbs)
* Iyov (Job)
* Shir Ha-Shirim (Song of Songs)
* Ruth
* Eikhah (Lamentations)
* Qoheleth (the author's name) (Ecclesiastes)
* Esther
* Daniel
* Ezra & Nechemyah (Nehemiah) (treated as one book)
* Divrei Ha-Yamim (The words of the days) (Chronicles)
Written Torah is often referred to as the Tanakh, which is an acrostic of Torah, Nevi'im and Ketuvim.
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The enemy is active on a multitude of fronts. The presentation of a viewpoint contrary to the Word seeks to undermine scriptural integrity and covertly lead away from God's will and revelation.
The gnostics were an arising contrary cult in the very early days of the Church. The gnostic gospels , written in opposition to the basic tenents of the Christian faith, are receiving much play and popularity.
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From a page on Gnostic Texts on Amazon,(link withheld so as not to promote materials):
Under management of the National Geographic Society, the discovery and publication of The Gospel of Judas has received a great deal of publicity. Putting aside the sometimes over-bearing "hype", this is indeed an important addition to our library of early Gnostic Christian texts. The introduction and notes accompanying the Gospel text are written for a general audience and place the text in proper Gnostic context. This is not a general introduction to Gnosticism, but it certainly merits reading. And it is yet another important work on Gnosticism to make the "top ten books" sales list at Amazon.com.
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http://www.earlychristianwritings.com/gospeljudas.html
Tixeront, tranlsated by Raemers, states (A Handbook of Patrology, p. 67): "Besides these Gospels, we know that there once existed a Gospel of Bartholomew, a Gospel of Thaddeus, mentioned in the decree of Pope Gelasius, and a Gospel of Judas Iscariot in use among the Cainites and spoken of by St. Irenaeus (i, 31, 1)."
Here is the Roberts-Donaldson translation of this section from Irenaeus:
Others again declare that Cain derived his being from the Power above, and acknowledge that Esau, Korah, the Sodomites, and all such persons, are related to themselves. On this account, they add, they have been assailed by the Creator, yet no one of them has suffered injury. For Sophia was in the habit of carrying off that which belonged to her from them to herself. They declare that Judas the traitor was thoroughly acquainted with these things, and that he alone, knowing the truth as no others did, accomplished the mystery of the betrayal; by him all things, both earthly and heavenly, were thus thrown into confusion. They produce a fictitious history of this kind, which they style the Gospel of Judas.
H.-C. Puech and Beate Blatz write (New Testament Apocrypha, vol. 1, p. 387):
Dating: the Gospel of Judas was of course composed before 180, the date at which it is mentioned for the first time by Irenaeus in adv. Haer. If it is in fact a Cainite work, and if this sect - assuming it was an independent gnostic group - was constituted in part, as has sometimes been asserted, in dependence on the doctrine of Marcion, the apocryphon can scarcely have been composed before the middle of the 2nd century. This would, however, be to build on weak arguments. At most we may be inclined to suspect a date between 130 and 170 or thereabouts.
It remains to be seen whether any manuscripts to be published might correspond to the Gospel of Judas mentioned by Irenaeus of Lyons.
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Beware of gnosticism in its subtle perversion and undermining of the basic tenents of the Christian faith. By writing that which is contrary to the Word it not only creates confusion, but can lead many to follow a different Jesus and deny God manifest in the flesh.
1 John was written partially to counteract the rising gnostic cult.
1 John 2:
18: Little children, it is the last time: and as ye have heard that antichrist shall come, even now are there many antichrists; whereby we know that it is the last time.
19: They went out from us, but they were not of us; for if they had been of us, they would no doubt have continued with us: but they went out, that they might be made manifest that they were not all of us.
20: But ye have an unction from the Holy One, and ye know all things.
21: I have not written unto you because ye know not the truth, but because ye know it, and that no lie is of the truth.
22: Who is a liar but he that denieth that Jesus is the Christ? He is antichrist, that denieth the Father and the Son.
23: Whosoever denieth the Son, the same hath not the Father: (but) he that acknowledgeth the Son hath the Father also.
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A Servant of Christ,
Drew
1 Tim. 3:
16: And without controversy great is the mystery of godliness: God was manifest in the flesh..
Posts: 3978 | From: Council Grove, KS USA | Registered: Jun 2002
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Chaplain Bob
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quote:
He recommended the Bible not only by His words but by His life.
The Bible indeed is our guide as followers of the Lord Jesus. But you are mistaken to make a statement like that. Jesus did not have the Bible. The only Scriptures that existed during His life was the Torah (the first five books of what we call the Bible).
BTW, if your sermon on believing the Bible was directed at me it was pointless as I have no problem believing the Bible.
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In His Service,
Bob Allen
Posts: 209 | From: Checotah, Oklahoma | Registered: Aug 2005
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Chaplain Bob
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quote:
Not the Bible, Not the Scriptures
Chaplain Bob, except for scripture there is no place to search for Truth and scripture does not contridict other scripture. Scripture plainly says Jesus label Judas the "son of perdition" (John 17:12), and state that it would have been better if Judas had never been born (Matthew 26:24). If Judas were simply following Jesus' instructions, why would he commit suicide once he saw that Jesus was condemned (Matthew 27:5)?
While the Bible is our guide I do not worship it.
And what difference does it make to your salvation if someone is trying to say Judas had a different relationship with Jesus than what we have been taught? Is your faith based on that relationship or on God's love for us and what He did through Jesus and His sacrifice?
My point is people are making a mountain out of a mole hill.
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In His Service,
Bob Allen
Posts: 209 | From: Checotah, Oklahoma | Registered: Aug 2005
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helpforhomeschoolers
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posted
I did not get that there was a need to see Judas as evil at all. That did not at all seem to be the issue here to me. Infact I thought that this clip made that clear. What was Judas... part of God's plan or a traitor? HE WAS BOTH. Did he repent? He repented of himself we are told... he repented that he was caught... he took that repentance to the Law and the Law said what is it of our concern... he killed himself. Judas lived and died under the law and Judas will was judged under the law. I dont know what happend with Judas in the grave or in the last momentd of his life or what mercy and grace there is or is not for him. We are not say who will ascend and who will decend as the church. All we can know is Judas is not part of the church.
But what does it matter.
To me what matters is this; We have been given the scripture; and we have been given the spirit;and we have been given the SON and we have been given the mind of Christ with which to know God and we better be standing in faith on those things no matter what man digs up out of the ground or conjures up in a lab or presents to us as fact; facts can change TRUTH is TRUTH. TRUTH IS the person Christ; TRUTH is the written word that speaks of HIM. If something they dig up speaks contrary to the scriptures we have it is not of God period be it plant animal or scroll or human. We dont live by what we can see; we live by every word that procedeth from the father and we walk and live by Faith no matter what we see.
If I see something that agrees with the scripture great; but if I see something that disagrees I dont care how real and tangible and material it is it is a lie.
Posts: 4684 | From: Southern Black Hills of South Dakota | Registered: Jun 2002
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KnowHim
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>>>Is your faith on such shaky footing that it will collapse when anyone challenges the Bible as we know it?
I saw not one say that their faith was shaky.
Many have spoken well of the Bible, but no endorsement is as compelling as that of Jesus of Nazareth. He recommended the Bible not only by His words but by His life. In times of personal temptation, public teaching, and personal suffering, He made it clear that He believed the Old Testament Scriptures were more than a national tradition ( Matthew 4:1-11; 5:17-19). He believed the Bible was a book about Himself. To His countrymen He said, "You search the Scriptures, for in them you think you have eternal life; and these are they which testify of Me. But you are not willing to come to Me that you may have life" (John 5:39-40).
With out God's word you can create Jesus to be whom ever you want Him to be. He has give us His word the Bible so we will know who He is. No you can not add to it or take away from it. That would be creating your own God and that is called idolatry.
I server the Lord and the Bible is the word of God. Surely you don't believe in the Gospel of Judas!
Our Bible is the most reliable document to come out of ancient times. No serious scholar, Christian or non-Christian, doubts the fact that it has been passed on through the centuries in essentially the same form in which it was written.
We believe the Bible to be inspired and without error in the original manuscripts. This means that although a few minor copyists' errors may be present (since the Bible was copied and passed along by hand in the many centuries before the modern printing press), the text as we have it today so accurately reflects the originals that it can be trusted. It is indeed the Word of God as He gave it to the human writers.
Ten Reasons to Believe in the Bible
http://www.rbc.org/rtb/6rsn/
In 1889 a schoolteacher told a ten-year-old boy, "You will never amount to very much." That boy was Albert Einstein. In 1954 a music manager told a young singer, "You ought to go back to driving a truck." That singer was Elvis Presley. In 1962 a record company told a group of singers, "We don’t like your sound. Groups with guitars are definitely on their way out." They said that to the Beatles. Man is prone to make mistakes. Those who reject the Bible should take the time to look at the evidence before they come to a verdict. 1. It is unique in its continuity. If just 10 people today were picked who were from the same place, born around the same time, spoke the same language, and made about the same amount of money, and were asked to write on just one controversial subject, they would have trouble agreeing with each other. But the Bible stands alone. It was written over a period of 1,600 years by more than 40 writers from all walks of life. Some were fishermen; some were politicians. Others were generals or kings, shepherds or historians. They were from three different continents, and wrote in three different languages. They wrote on hundreds of controversial subjects yet they wrote with agreement and harmony. They wrote in dungeons, in temples, on beaches, and on hillsides, during peacetime and during war. Yet their words sound like they came from the same source. So even though 10 people today couldn’t write on one controversial subject and agree, God picked 40 different people to write the Bible—and it stands the test of time. 2. It is unique in its circulation. The invention of the printing press in 1450 made it possible to print books in large quantities. The first book printed was the Bible. Since then, the Bible has been read by more people and printed more times than any other book in history. By 1930, over one billion Bibles had been distributed by Bible societies around the world. By 1977, Bible societies alone were printing over 200 million Bibles each year, and this doesn’t include the rest of the Bible publishing companies. No one who is interested in knowing the truth can ignore such an important book. 3. It is unique in its translation. The Bible has been translated into over 1,400 languages. No other book even comes close. 4. It is unique in its survival. In ancient times, books were copied by hand onto manuscripts which were made from parchment and would decay over time. Ancient books are available today only because someone made copies of the originals to preserve them. For example, the original writings of Julius Caesar are no longer around. We know what he wrote only by the copies we have. Only 10 copies still exist, and they were made 1,000 years after he died. Only 600 copies of Homer’s The Iliad exist, made 1,300 years after the originals were written. No other book has as many copies of the ancient manuscripts as the Bible. In fact, there are over 24,000 copies of New Testament manuscripts, some written within 35 years of the writer’s death. 5. It is unique in withstanding attack. No other book has been so attacked throughout history as the Bible. In A.D. 300 the Roman emperor Diocletian ordered every Bible burned because he thought that by destroying the Scriptures he could destroy Christianity. Anyone caught with a Bible would be executed. But just 25 years later, the Roman emperor Constantine ordered that 50 perfect copies of the Bible be made at government expense. The French philosopher Voltaire, a skeptic who destroyed the faith of many people, boasted that within 100 years of his death, the Bible would disappear from the face of the earth. Voltaire died in 1728, but the Bible lives on. The irony of history is that 50 years after his death, the Geneva Bible Society moved into his former house and used his printing presses to print thousands of Bibles. The Bible has also survived criticism. No book has been more attacked for its accuracy. And yet archeologists are proving every year that the Bible’s detailed descriptions of historic events are correct.
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becauseHElives
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quote:
As for me and my house we shall serve the Lord (not the Bible).
Not the Bible, Not the Scriptures
Chaplain Bob, except for scripture there is no place to search for Truth and scripture does not contridict other scripture. Scripture plainly says Jesus label Judas the "son of perdition" (John 17:12), and state that it would have been better if Judas had never been born (Matthew 26:24). If Judas were simply following Jesus' instructions, why would he commit suicide once he saw that Jesus was condemned (Matthew 27:5)?
Jhn 5:39 Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me.
Job 23:12 Neither have I gone back from the commandment of his lips; I have esteemed the words of his mouth more than my necessary [food].
Isa 45:23 I have sworn by myself, the word is gone out of my mouth [in] righteousness, and shall not return, That unto me every knee shall bow, every tongue shall swear.
Isa 66:2 For all those [things] hath mine hand made, and all those [things] have been, saith the LORD: but to this [man] will I look, [even] to [him that is] poor and of a contrite spirit, and trembleth at my word.
Jhn 8:31 Then said Jesus to those Jews which believed on him, If ye continue in my word, [then] are ye my disciples indeed;
Jhn 8:37 I know that ye are Abraham's seed; but ye seek to kill me, because my word hath no place in you.
Psa 119:105 NUN. Thy word [is] a lamp unto my feet, and a light unto my path.
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Strive to enter in at the strait gate:for many, I say unto you will seek to enter in, and shall not be able. ( Luke 13:24 )
Posts: 4578 | From: Southeast Texas | Registered: Jun 2002
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Chaplain Bob
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Hold it people!
So far the biggest objection I have heard about the "Gospel of Judas" is that it puts Judas in a different light than what we seem to gather from the Bible. Is seeing Judas as an evil person essential to your salvation? Is seeing Judas as a partner with God in Jesus crucifixion rebelling against God? We don't know from what we have seen in the Bible whether or not Judas repented. He certainly seemed remorseful. How is seeing Judas as evil beneficial to your salvation or to God's plan of salvation? Is your salvation in the book we call the Bible or in Jesus Christ? Is your salvation null and void if it is discovered that Judas had a role different than we have come to understand? Is your salvation null and void if we learn that there may be books missing from the Bible or in the Bible that shouldn't be there? Are you a Bible worshipper or a worshipper of Jesus Christ?
Is your faith on such shaky footing that it will collapse when anyone challenges the Bible as we know it?
As for me and my house we shall serve the Lord (not the Bible).
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In His Service,
Bob Allen
Posts: 209 | From: Checotah, Oklahoma | Registered: Aug 2005
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helpforhomeschoolers
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It is good David thanks.
It is ridiculous isn't it the extent that the world will go to to rebel against God. It amazes me the effort the mind of carnal man will exert in order to hold onto its paradigms, whether of self or science or anthing else that exalts itself above God.
Posts: 4684 | From: Southern Black Hills of South Dakota | Registered: Jun 2002
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KnowHim
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The Gospel of Judas
http://www9.nationalgeographic.com/channel/gospelofjudas/preview.html
Question: "What is the gospel of Judas?"
Answer: Sometime in the 1970s, in a cave in Egypt, a copy of the “gospel of Judas” was discovered. The circumstances of the discovery have been described as shady, with those who possessed the copy asking for exorbitant amounts of money for the codex. For decades, no institution was willing to pay for the purchase due to its dubious origins. Eventually the codex of the gospel of Judas was purchased by a foundation in Switzerland. The existence of the gospel of Judas codex was made public in 2004, but the actual release of the content of the codex has been repeatedly delayed, with the now expected release date of April 2006. The dating of the gospel of Judas codex is likely the 5th century A.D. Up to one third of the codex is missing or illegible.
Prior to this discovery, the only reference to the gospel of Judas was in the writings of a 2nd century Christian named Irenaeus. Irenaeus essentially wrote that the gospel of Judas was the “invented history” of a long line of heretics and rebels against God. The essential message of the gospel of Judas is that Jesus wanted Judas to betray Him because it was necessary to fulfill Jesus’ plan. If it was Jesus' plan for Judas to betray Him, why would Jesus label Judas the "son of perdition" (John 17:12), and state that it would have been better if Judas had never been born (Matthew 26:24). If Judas were simply following Jesus' instructions, why would he commit suicide once he saw that Jesus was condemned (Matthew 27:5)?
The gospel of Judas is a Gnostic gospel, espousing a Gnostic viewpoint of Christianity. The gospel of Judas is simply a heretical forgery, much the same as the gospel of Thomas, the gospel of Mary, and the gospel of Philip. Just as Judas Iscariot rejected Jesus and betrayed Him with a kiss, the gospel of Judas rejects the true Gospel and truth of God with a fraudulent appearance of validity.
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