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Author
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Topic: The Gospel According to Rick Warren
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IveyLeaguer
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Member # 5493
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posted
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Originally posted by SoftTouch:
Wow!!! IveyLeaguer, WELCOME to the CBBS! It's so refreshing to see someone who has their Eyes Wide Open and their Discernment in good order! I look forward to reading more of your posts ![[Smile]](smile.gif)
Thanks so much, really appreciate that. Nice to be here.
Love your scriptures!
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"Because narrow is the gate, and hard is the way that leads to life, and few indeed are the ones who find it."
Posts: 8 | From: Dahlonega, Georgia | Registered: Feb 2006
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WhiteEagle
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posted
Linda, I just read the link on Rick Warren's plan for Rawanda in Africa.
I honestly couldn't find any fault with it. It's very optimistic, but we serve a BIG God.
The Catholic Church has been the biggest spokeman against abortion on demand, and euthanasia. I do partner with them on that issue. They also have stood firm on homosexuality. I know the Catholic Church has taken a major hit due to pedafile priests, I see that as God purging the Catholic Church of it's own sins and errors of doctrine.
The Word is a Two-Edged Sword, cutting assunder...."
The purging will come to the Prostestant branch also, and has started.
Judgement starts in the House of the Lord!
I do agree with Rick Warren's statement about the Body of Christ functioning without hands or feet, and Only functioning as a Mouth. It is time the Church is known for what it STANDS for and NOT what it is against. Actions DO speak louder than words.
Like Eliza Dolittle sang on "My Fair Lady", "Don't say you love me,.... SHOW ME!"
Posts: 1392 | From: Maine | Registered: Aug 2004
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WhiteEagle
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To continue:
Seek ye first the kingdom of God and His righteousness, and all these things will be added unto you. Matthew 6:33
This is from Jesus' Sermon on the Mount, when He teaches us, not to worry about our next meal, what we will wear, and where we will get shelter over our heads.
This verse has been ONE of my signposts in my walk with the Lord.
Posts: 1392 | From: Maine | Registered: Aug 2004
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WhiteEagle
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posted
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Originally posted by helpforhomeschoolers:
I wont go so far as to say that he is saying that Islam is an equal path to God; Thus far, he has not said that, and has said quite the opposite! He says that there is only one way Jesus.
What he does do is make the purpose of the church on earth the deeds to heal the earths ills and what he does do is see that he can join with other faiths even islam to go about accomplishing the work of the church... to include planting churches??? There is a lot to this. Many many issues here.
But do not think that I am saying that he has stated as some have that Islam is a way to salvation, he has not.
Still, it is I believe another Gospel, because the Gospel is about more than eternal life in the life to come!!! (I believe that we both agree that it is about this life here and now as well.)
I am starting to see where you are coming from in that many of these preachers, like Warren may be highlighting prosperity too much out of balance to the rest of scripture.
Many high-profile TV evangelists are prone to forgetting their first Love, due to fame and riches.
I cringe inside every time I happen to watch a TV evangelist ask for money and then promise the TV viewers they will be blessed with prosperity if they give to their ministry.
But I see nothing wrong with preaching hope to people, because in spite of America being the richest country materially and inspite of America having education at our fingertips, and knowledge and plenty of food and our standard of living is higher, America is a very depressed nation.
Many people are taking anti-depressants, anti-anxiety pills, alcoholism is prevelant, and other self-medicating methods using drugs.
We are so obsessed with making money, that we stress ourselves out and die from heart attacks, and strokes, and cancer, all due to stress.
If we could learn to REALLY trust God, our lives would be so much fuller spiritually on earth. The other just may come with it, IE. HAVING OUR BASIC PHYSICAL NEEDS MET AND THEN SOME.
Posts: 1392 | From: Maine | Registered: Aug 2004
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helpforhomeschoolers
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posted
Yes, and on the Methodists, I think that I should note that the Evangelical Methodist Church did split from the UMC and is working hard to maitain the traditional teachings of Methodism, and adherence to sound Biblical doctine.
Posts: 4684 | From: Southern Black Hills of South Dakota | Registered: Jun 2002
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helpforhomeschoolers
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posted
I wont go so far as to say that he is saying that Islam is an equal path to God; Thus far, he has not said that, and has said quite the opposite! He says that there is only one way Jesus.
What he does do is make the purpose of the church on earth the deeds to heal the earths ills and what he does do is see that he can join with other faiths even islam to go about accomplishing the work of the church... to include planting churches??? There is a lot to this. Many many issues here.
But do not think that I am saying that he has stated as some have that Islam is a way to salvation, he has not.
Still, it is I believe another Gospel, because the Gospel is about more than eternal life in the life to come!!! (I believe that we both agree that it is about this life here and now as well.)
Posts: 4684 | From: Southern Black Hills of South Dakota | Registered: Jun 2002
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WhiteEagle
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Linda I'll have to get back to you on this one, as I do not want to write off the cuff.
If Rick Warren is seriously equating Islam as an equal path to God, that is not right to say the least.
I agree that some segments of Methodists have perverted the gospel regarding homosexuality as have the Episcopal church, and I won't even bother to include the Universalists as a Christian church because they obviously are NOT.
God Bless ![[Wink]](wink.gif)
Posts: 1392 | From: Maine | Registered: Aug 2004
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helpforhomeschoolers
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posted
quote:
All we need is Jesus in the END to overcome. God is growing His ARMY and He has many Brigades that accomplish specific functions in the kingdom.
Example: The Baptists are excellent at preaching the gospel of Salvation and Repentance.
The Methodists are excellent at preaching about Sanctifcation prccess and holiness.
The Catholics are excellent about devotion to God, teaching repentance, and confession.
Penecostals are emotional and help the Body of Christ with healings and spirtual warfare.
Rick Warren teaches the Word and teaches that beleivers are not just victims.
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The Methodists are excellent at preaching about Sanctifcation prccess and holiness.
The Methodism of Wesly may have done this but today this is not so! The UMC formally states that homosexuality is incompatible with Christian teaching, and in 1984 voted to prohibit ordination of self‑avowed, practicing homosexuals. However, as soon as the prohibition against homosexual ordinations went into effect UMC bishops ordained homosexuals in Colorado and California, The New York UMC Conference passed a resolution which said, "We deeply regret our denomination's continued oppression of homosexual persons ... We look forward to the day when the church will accept gay and lesbian persons into full fellowship." Retiring UMC bishop Melvin Wheatley spoke to a body of the Metropolitan Community Churches (MCC) in Sacramento, California, in 1985, and said the MCC is "wonderful because you are mixing the gay and Christian experience." The MCC is a homosexual denomination. Wheatley said in 1983, "I clearly do not believe that homosexuality is a sin. ... Homosexuality, quite like heterosexuality, is neither a virtue nor an accomplishment. It is a mysterious gift of God's grace ... His or her homosexuality is a gift‑neither a virtue nor a sin." Many United Methodist churches have performed wedding ceremonies for homosexuals, and a number of homosexuals have been ordained to the ministry in the UMC.
The United Methodist Church is a member of the radical National and World Council of Churches; in fact, the UMC is The largest financial supporter of the WCC.United Methodist pastors participate in ecumenical clergy associations, joining hands at the local level with Roman Catholics, Unitarians, other Modernists, and non‑Christians. An example is the Piedmont Interfaith Council which includes United Methodist churches in its membership. Its 1990 "Ecumenical Celebration of Thanksgiving" featured such "faith communities" As "the Franciscans, the Sikhs, the Japanese Community, Bahai, the Russian Jewish Emigres, Islam, Buddhist, the Native Americas and the Jewish and Christian faith traditions."
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The Catholics are excellent about devotion to God, teaching repentance, and confession.
You know I could write a book on this one, but I will spare you as you have read it all before I am sure. ![[Big Grin]](biggrin.gif)
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Rick Warren teaches the Word and teaches that beleivers are not just victims.
I would say that Warren teaches a mixture of the word alsong with Jungian Psychology and Drucker/Napolean Hill positive thinking. He consquently also teaches some things contrary to the word.
Posts: 4684 | From: Southern Black Hills of South Dakota | Registered: Jun 2002
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helpforhomeschoolers
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Hi White Eagle: This will give you at least an idea of why I am seeing the things I believe I am seeing:
The first thing that I came to see was that Warren’s goals are ecumenical, and political, and his vision is one where the church’s agenda is to solve the world’s ills:
This article gives a good summary of this I think:
http://www.ipsterraviva.net/Africa/viewstory.asp?idnews=576
Warren’s P.E.A.C.E. Plan is about ecumenism; it is about the coming together of any and all religious groups under the unified goal of solving the world’s ills of poverty, and social injustice and disease.
This is from a 2005 Pew Forum conference: Warren says: “And we've actually created what we call clinic-in-a-box, business-in-a-box, church-in-a-box, and we are using normal people, volunteers. When Jesus sent the disciples – this will be my last point – when Jesus sent the disciples into a village he said, "Find the man of peace." And he said, "When you find the man of peace you start working with that person, and if they respond to you, you work with them. If they don't, you dust the dust off your shoes; you go to the next village." Who's the man of peace in any village – or it might be a woman of peace – who has the most respect, they're open and they're influential? They don't have to be a Christian. In fact, they could be a Muslim, but they're open and they're influential and you work with them to attack the five giants. And that's going to bring the second Reformation.”
Warren says that the first reformation split apart Protestantism and Catholicism and created the denominations and the was based on creeds. He says the second reformation will be based on deeds and will unite them again. His P.E.A.C.E. plan is the catalyst of this reformation. But as you can see from the above, it will unite not only Christians, but Christians with other faiths or religions, to do what warren sees as God’s work.
“MR. WARREN: Yeah, I've talked to Alan about this, several times in fact.
You know, 500 years ago, the first Reformation with Luther and then Calvin, was about
beliefs. I think a new reformation is going to be about behavior. The first Reformation
was about creeds; I think this one will be about deeds. I think the first one was about what the church believes; I think this one will be about what the church does.
The first Reformation actually split Christianity into dozens and then hundreds of
different segments. I think this one is actually going to bring them together. Now, you're
never going to get Christians, of all their stripes and varieties, to agree on all of the
different doctrinal disputes and things like that, but what I am seeing them agree on are
the purposes of the church.
And I find great uniformity in the fact that I see this happening all the time. Last week I spoke to 4,000 pastors at my church who came from over 100 denominations in over 50 countries. Now, that's wide spread. We had Catholic priests, we had Pentecostal ministers, we had Lutheran bishops, we had Anglican bishops, we had Baptist preachers. They're all there together and you know what? I'd never get them to agree on communion or baptism or a bunch of stuff like that, but I could get them to agree on what the church should be doing in the world.”
Then, Warren lumps Christian Fundamentalists and Muslim Fundamentalists in the same basket: and calls them one of the great problems of the 21st century. I think that this is necessary for to embrace the moderates…. See below
Warren has said that Rwanda is going to become the first purpose driven nation.
OAKLAND, California, Mar 8 (IPS) - In a recent New York Times Magazine story about U.S. evangelicals working in Africa, Daniel Bergner wrote that Rick Warren had declared Rwanda the world's "first purpose-driven nation".
Now that is all fine and good until you know what is happening in Rwanda. The Tutsi are embracing Islam, they are converting in droves because many were betrayed by Catholicism there and when they sought refuge in church buildings (Rwanda was at the time of the genocide the largest Catholic nation in Africa) anyway, when they sought refuge in the church buildings they were given refuge and then turned over to the Hutu death squads so the trust is not there for many Tutsi who are returning.
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A53018-2002Sep22.html
Excerpt: “Many converts say they chose Islam because of the role that some Catholic and Protestant leaders played in the genocide. Human rights groups have documented several incidents in which Christian clerics allowed Tutsis to seek refuge in churches, then surrendered them to Hutu death squads, as well as instances of Hutu priests and ministers encouraging their congregations to kill Tutsis. Today some churches serve as memorials to the many people slaughtered among their pews.”
But also, and much more frightening to me….. there is a movement in Rwanda toward Christian ecumenism with Islam in a way that is currently unheard of in the rest of the world… see the article below:
http://www.warc.ch/update/up114/09.html
“Many Christians have discovered a new respect for their Muslim neighbours and have abandoned their previous image of them as "lost souls" who do not know the way to God. Promoting social justice was the theme of the fifth national Christian-Muslim seminar, which took place at the Isano Presbyterian Centre in Kigali in August.”
The above is an excerpt from that article; this fits perfectly with Warren’s P.E.A.C.E Plan. Warren: “They don't have to be a Christian. In fact, they could be a Muslim, but they're open and they're influential and you work with them to attack the five giants. And that's going to bring the second Reformation.”
Now maybe if Warren had not been labeled "America's Pastor" and maybe if some 90 something percent of the pastors surveyed in a recent Barna poll had not called Warren the most influencial person in the church today and his book the most influential book they had read this year (2005) and if I did not also see an ever increasing number of pators in this country with a non biblical worldview, and maybe if I were not hearing more and more that the Biblical doctrines of sin and hell and homosexuality are not as important as getting along and maybe if the Pope was not kissng the Koran and saying that we have one thing in common with Islam and that is that we both worhsip the LIVING GOD, and I could go on...we havent even addressed, mysticism, gnosticism, and Kaballah all on the rise all calling itself Christian,or what the WCC is doing, but when I see all these pcitures in a collage together... I see the movement of of the worlds religions into a place of common ground and that cannot happen except that it be antichrist because there is no fellowship between light and darkness and Satan does come as an angel of light.
Posts: 4684 | From: Southern Black Hills of South Dakota | Registered: Jun 2002
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helpforhomeschoolers
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ha ha ha, yes I was already looking for some of the articles I have been reading. I thought you would find them interesting. This stuff is really scary to me. I dont think that many are aware of what is going on right now on a global scale to the melding of all this together.
I dont know that I understand REV enough to say that I think that Islam is the beast, but I do think that Islam is the religion of antiChrist if that makes sense.
Do you know that Islam is expecting the return of Jesus? they expect his return to set the record straight so to speak on Allah being God.
This is purely speculation on my part, but it would not surprise me to see the antichrist be a person of the line of David who is also a Muslim, who is also a head of state of an country that is part of the EU.
Posts: 4684 | From: Southern Black Hills of South Dakota | Registered: Jun 2002
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WhiteEagle
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quote:
Originally posted by helpforhomeschoolers:
What we see right now is groups like Warren's and the RCC embracing what they would call true Islam.. the religion of peace. I see them dividing Islam in the same way they are dividing Christian fundamntalism. The last pope declared that Islam worships the God of Abraham!!!
Can you provide any link or proof about how Rick Warren embraces Islam.
As to the last pope declaring that Islam worships the God of Abraham.... I agree with you that Islam does NOT worship the God of Abraham... and this is our spiritual discernment.
I am in total agreement with you, Islam worships a demon called Allah.
But... historically Mohammad claimed that he worshipped the God of Abrahman and that Muslims are the children of Abraham, and actually they are the children of Abraham through Ishmael. They assert that Ishmael is really the First Born of Abraham and hence is the true heir of the promise and not the Jews. Islam "sees" the Old Testament from an Ishmael perspective.
Posts: 1392 | From: Maine | Registered: Aug 2004
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WhiteEagle
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Linda and others:
I want to add and it was to be my main point about what you call apostacy in Rick Warren and others' teachings on how to walk with God.
In Corinthians and in other of Paul's writings, he descirbes the Body of Christ.
One part of the body is the eyes, the ears, the feet, the hands, the heart, the lungs, the back, etc. All parts of the body are needed. Paul mentions some parts seem weak, and unimportant when we compare them to the other parts. But he says the hands need the eyes and the eyes need the ears, and the body needs the feet, etc or it will not function well.
I can empathize that you and others do not like the teachings of Rick Warren and others. But to me they ARE PART OF THE WHOLE BODY OF CHRIST.
We are in constant WAR with our enemy. Satan and his demons, and those whom he has deceived.
We fight to break the deception over those who are deceived, and to lift up Christ's name as a BANNER to all peoples.
Different denominations seem to reach a certain personality of people, and those people are ministered to by that certain flavor or outlook of dcotrine, according to the needs in their lives.
I think that there are so many denominations due to so many diverse needs of people in the Body of Christ.
Some people are black and white type thinkers, and they seem to need a distinct set of rules and no straying from those rules to help keep them close to God.
Some people have been abused by those in authority, and strict control and they need a Loving God, that has them follow the rules out of Love and gratitude toward Him.
Some people are insecure and they need a brand of Christian walk that gives them security.
We all have different needs and God meet us where we are, and then helps us grow up in Him.
All we need is Jesus in the END to overcome. God is growing His ARMY and He has many Brigades that accomplish specific functions in the kingdom.
Example: The Baptists are excellent at preaching the gospel of Salvation and Repentance.
The Methodists are excellent at preaching about Sanctifcation prccess and holiness.
The Catholics are excellent about devotion to God, teaching repentance, and confession.
Penecostals are emotional and help the Body of Christ with healings and spirtual warfare.
Rick Warren teaches the Word and teaches that beleivers are not just victims.
Jesus instructed us to turn the other cheek to people, but not Satan. We are to resist evil through Love.
Does Rick Warren leave out things about how Christians will need to go through trials, and testings, and chastisements? Probably, but we can't get through those unless we first know we are supposed to be overcomers in the first place.
James 4:7 Submit yourselves, then, to God, Resist the devil, and he will flee from you.
1 Peter 5:8,9 Be self-controlled and alert. Your enemy the devil prowls around like a roaring lion looking for someone to devour. Resist him, standing firm in the faith..."
The Body needs all it's parts.
If I'm an eye and can "see" evil coming, what good is it without a mouth to speak against it, and ears to dscern how to combat it?
Posts: 1392 | From: Maine | Registered: Aug 2004
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helpforhomeschoolers
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What we see right now is groups like Warren's and the RCC embracing what they would call true Islam.. the religion of peace. I see them dividing Islam in the same way they are dividing Christian fundamntalism. The last pope declared that Islam worships the God of Abraham!!!
Posts: 4684 | From: Southern Black Hills of South Dakota | Registered: Jun 2002
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WhiteEagle
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quote:
Originally posted by helpforhomeschoolers:
What is mind boggling is the rapid pace with which all this is coming together... What I cant yet see is Islam blending in and they have to... we have to see Islam, the RCC, and apostate protestantism, Hinduism, Budhism, and paganism, all come to common ground and we can see bits and pieces of it and we see the piees uniting with what seems to me to be breakneck speed, but how they will all fit and what it will look like is still beyond me.
Linda,
I guess I see all this a little differently.
Islam will NEVER NEVER blend in with Rick Warren, Kevin Copeland, or any other Christian Church in America that is spirit filled. NEVER!
The Muslims could conceivable align with people who practice Christianity in a very legalistc way, as those people would agree with Muslims to perhaps imprison or execute homosexuals, do away with drug dealers by execution, and make laws to stop drugs, alcohol, and prostitution, smoking, and make it illeagal for people to dress too scantily. Sort of a Hitler-type fasism.
Muslim perhaps would take these type of Christians under their wing initailly for a common cause, but would eventually demand that these chrisitans convert to Islam or die too.
Islam appears to be the beast. Islam is making war with the Saints. Bin laden calls our country the "people of the cross".
I believe that the Lord is purging the Catholic Church at this time. I honestly can't see the RCC making any alliance with Islam.
Posts: 1392 | From: Maine | Registered: Aug 2004
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SoftTouch
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Wow!!! IveyLeaguer, WELCOME to the CBBS! It's so refreshing to see someone who has their Eyes Wide Open and their Discernment in good order! I look forward to reading more of your posts
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Psalm 119:104Through thy precepts I get understanding: therefore I hate every false way. 105Thy word is a lamp unto my feet, and a light unto my path.
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IveyLeaguer
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... I expected that the great falling away would be people falling into laciviousness ...
Well, maybe it is 'spiritual laciviousness'?
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... Warren is a "bridge" and on the other side is McLaren and past that Kaballah and mysticism... the return to Babylon indeed! It is a progressive movement ...
Yes, I think so, too. McLaren's flock are mostly Liberal/New Age, the Seeker-Churches seem to be a mosaic of sorts - some conservative, some liberal, mixed philosophies, psychology, and combinations of all that and more. Then you have the New Apostolic Reformation bunch, the charismatic Latter Rain bunch, who are already 'connected' with Rick Warren, and some other movements, quote a lot of it, still under the 'orthodox' umbrella.
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What is mind boggling is the rapid pace with which all this is coming together... What I cant yet see is Islam blending in and they have to... we have to see Islam, the RCC, and apostate protestantism, Hinduism, Budhism, and paganism, all come to common ground and we can see bits and pieces of it and we see the pieces uniting with what seems to me to be breakneck speed, but how they will all fit and what it will look like is still beyond me.
I couldn't agree more, and as soon as you 'see' it please let me know immediately.
I have some ideas but that's another thread. For example, an easy connection is Joel Osteen --> Napolean Hill --> Hinduism/Buddhism. Fascinating stuff, and it seems to be breaking daily.
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"Because narrow is the gate, and hard is the way that leads to life, and few indeed are the ones who find it."
Posts: 8 | From: Dahlonega, Georgia | Registered: Feb 2006
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helpforhomeschoolers
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I dont think that we will see reversals; It has been 2 years or so now since I came to realize exactly what Warren and this movement was and it hit me in a big way because I was naive and I expected that the great falling away would be people falling into laciviousness, and when I realized that it was not that at all, but a falling away from sound doctrine and the WORD of TRUTH, and and really also a return to works where spiritual effectiveness of a church is measured in church attendance and what you are doing in the community it floored me... funny cause now it is so plain to me I dont know how I ever thought it was anything else. I too see that warren is a "bridge" and on the other side is McLauren and past that Kaballah and mysticism... the return to Babylon indeed! It is a progressive movement to ward total blindedness and absence of Biblical Truth.
In the past 2 years or so of watching this what I see is that some hear and leave, but most march on. I have fellowship on another board with some who have friends that attend Osteen's church and the word is the same.... look at the good we are doing in the world, dont talk to me about doctrine...There have been several through here that have left churches because they became PD churches, but I for the most part those that are in continue in. I think that the scripture supports that this is the way that it will be.
What is mind boggling is the rapid pace with which all this is coming together... What I cant yet see is Islam blending in and they have to... we have to see Islam, the RCC, and apostate protestantism, Hinduism, Budhism, and paganism, all come to common ground and we can see bits and pieces of it and we see the piees uniting with what seems to me to be breakneck speed, but how they will all fit and what it will look like is still beyond me.
Posts: 4684 | From: Southern Black Hills of South Dakota | Registered: Jun 2002
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IveyLeaguer
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quote:
Originally posted by BrotherJoe:
Warren is just a small example of what the "church world" is reproducing ...
Boy, that's the truth, it seems like deception is everywhere and coming from every angle, though it's starting to take some form now.
But I'm not so sure how 'small' of an example Warren is. I've spent the past 3 years researching Warren and the present apostasy and researchers are mixed in where they think Warren and the PDM will end up.
Some think it will 'fad out' like other movements have in recent decades, but I believe the PDM has legs and a ways to go before it reaches its pinnacle.
Based on what I've seen for the past year, I think Rick Warren is the bridge that has been constructed for both conservative and fundamentalist Christianity to cross over into the coming 'New Age Global Church', though it will be called something else. This bridge is very wide and short, and already hundreds of thousands have crossed over.
Hopefully, many of these will cross back over before it's too late, but the evidence of this is almost non-existent. There are some, but not enough to mention. If anyone has knowledge of purpose-driven reversals, especially an entire congregation, I would like to hear about it.
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"Because narrow is the gate, and hard is the way that leads to life, and few indeed are the ones who find it."
Posts: 8 | From: Dahlonega, Georgia | Registered: Feb 2006
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IveyLeaguer
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Originally posted by HisGrace:
Rick Warren - A portion of the Purpose Given Declartion:
Since my past has been forgiven, and I have a purpose for living, and a home awaiting in heaven, I refuse to waste any more time or energy on shallow living, petty thinking, trivial talking, thoughtless doing, useless regretting, hurtful resenting, or faithless worrying. Instead I will magnify God, grow to maturity, serve in ministry, and fulfill my mission in the membership of his family.
Because this life is preparation for the next, I will value worship over wealth, “we” over “me,” character over comfort, service over status, and people over possessions, position, and pleasures. I know what matters most, and I’ll give it all I’ve got. I’ll do the best I can with what I have for Jesus Christ today.
I won’t be captivated by culture, manipulated by critics, motivated by praise, frustrated by problems, debilitated by temptation, or intimidated by the devil. I’ll keep running my race with my eyes on the goal, not the sidelines or those running by me. When times get tough, and I get tired, I won’t back up, back off, back down, back out, or backslide. I’ll just keep moving forward by God’s grace. I’m Spirit-led, purpose-driven, and mission-focused, so I cannot be bought, I will not be compromised, and I shall not quit until I finish the race.
HisGrace, one thing you absolutely must keep in mind when discerning truth in teachers is that you cannot accept their professions at face value. Rick Warren is the classic example. Nobody is a better at profession and nobody is smoother. Two examples:
1. The statement that opens his PDL book, "This book is NOT about you", or something like that. Then it proceeds to be a whole book about YOU.
2. "I won't be captivated by culture." Puh-lease? Rick Warren? I haven't looked but there must be numerous examples of this on the board. I would estimate Warren is 70-80% culture-oriented as opposed to 100% Biblical.
As sad and hurtful as it is to the flock, professions of faith are not always sincere. And even when they are, often the teachers are themselves deceived. As Jesus said, "Beware of false prophets, who come to you in sheep's clothing, but inwardly they are ravening wolves." Mat 7:15
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"Because narrow is the gate, and hard is the way that leads to life, and few indeed are the ones who find it."
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helpforhomeschoolers
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posted
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From SoftTouch - My conscience is clear and Warren is NOT Annointed of God (Neither is Hinn, Copeland, Osteen, nor any other self-proclaimed preacher/prophet/teacher who teaches twisted or against scripture). This is a very Plain and Simple Truth
Amen Deb. We may not be the majority, but I will stand with you in agreement. Discerning who is annointed of God for the ministering to the church and who is not is as simple as looking at Jesus, and I dont see the Jesus of my Bible when I look at any of those folks. They dont preach what he preached; they dont do what he did; and they dont do it like he did. They dont love the things he loved or desire the things he desired that I can see. They dont look like any of the Apostles either.
Jesus said make the tree good or make it evil.
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yahsway
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thanks for the info trafield! Believe it or not I do get over that way several times a year. My husbands dad (who is now deceased) was from Johnson City. In fact, we were over that way last October.
Does this assembly have a web-site by any chance? Shalom dear brother and keep pressing on. In His name, Shalom
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WhiteEagle
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To add to the above:
If anything the Christian Fundamentalism of the 1950's was the reason the rebellion of the 1960's occurred.
Fundamentalism lacks Love. Read 1 Corinthians 13. Fundamentalsim is loveless and all law.
Fundamentalism kept the Church impotent to reach out to the next generation searching for Love.
Like the Pharisees it put burdens upon people that were impossible to bear.
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WhiteEagle
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Softtouch are we to go back to the Christianity of Pilgrim's Progress? Or of the Puritans?
I agree with Grace's post that all those pastors preach Christ and repentance.
Jesus once told his disciples, when they were complaining to him about another group of believers that didn't follow with them. Jesus said that those who were not again Him were for Him.
I can't help but see this heresy hunting to be a form of idolotry on your part.
I think these pastors preach living out one's faith, and not just talking about it. Ie fundamentalism.
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HisGrace
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quote:
Originally posted by HisGrace:
quote:
Originally posted by SoftTouch:
To anyone who is taken in by Rick Warren's False Teaching... PLEASE WAKE UP!
You know SoftTouch, I probably don't know anymore about Rick Warren than you do. You always follow articles from other sites, and I go by quotes he has made, which have been Bible-based.
I honestly don't know if his full message is errant, but I wouldn't want to take the risk of going against God's anointed one if it weren't true.
quote:
From SoftTouch - My conscience is clear and Warren is NOT Annointed of God (Neither is Hinn, Copeland, Osteen, nor any other self-proclaimed preacher/prophet/teacher who teaches twisted or against scripture). This is a very Plain and Simple Truth
How are 100% sure that they are not anointed of God Deb? Some plain and simple truth -
Hinn -"Jesus Christ, His Son, is the only way to God. Only He can reconcile us to God the Father. Mankind may seek other solutions and worship other gods, but Jesus Christ, alone, died on the Cross for our sins and rose in triumph over the grave and eternal death. He paid the penalty for our sin and bridged the gap between God and mankind."
Copeland - Salvation is a gift that is made available to those who repent, believe and confess that Jesus is Lord and that He died and rose from the dead to save mankind (Acts 16:31; Romans 10:9-10). This gift cannot be earned through good deeds or by simply being "good" (Ephesians 2:8; 1 Timothy 1:9). It is a matter of faith (acting out on what you believe according to God's Word concerning salvation).
Rick Warren- A portion of the Purpose Given Declartion:
Since my past has been forgiven, and I have a purpose for living, and a home awaiting in heaven, I refuse to waste any more time or energy on shallow living, petty thinking, trivial talking, thoughtless doing, useless regretting, hurtful resenting, or faithless worrying. Instead I will magnify God, grow to maturity, serve in ministry, and fulfill my mission in the membership of his family.
Because this life is preparation for the next, I will value worship over wealth, “we” over “me,” character over comfort, service over status, and people over possessions, position, and pleasures. I know what matters most, and I’ll give it all I’ve got. I’ll do the best I can with what I have for Jesus Christ today.
I won’t be captivated by culture, manipulated by critics, motivated by praise, frustrated by problems, debilitated by temptation, or intimidated by the devil. I’ll keep running my race with my eyes on the goal, not the sidelines or those running by me. When times get tough, and I get tired, I won’t back up, back off, back down, back out, or backslide. I’ll just keep moving forward by God’s grace. I’m Spirit-led, purpose-driven, and mission-focused, so I cannot be bought, I will not be compromised, and I shall not quit until I finish the race. "
Osteen -WE BELIEVE…the entire Bible is inspired by God, without error and the authority on which we base our faith, conduct and doctrine.
WE BELIEVE…in one God who exists in three distinct persons: Father, Son and Holy Spirit. We believe Jesus Christ is the Son of God who came to this earth as Savior of the world.
WE BELIEVE…Jesus died on the cross and shed His blood for our sins. We believe Jesus rose from the dead and is coming again. We believe that eternal salvation is found only by placing our faith in Jesus Christ and what he did for us on the cross.
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trafield
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Thanks, ST!
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SoftTouch
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quote:
Originally posted by HisGrace:
SoftTouch, it would be refreshing to see you in Bible Study with your own personal insight about how the scriptures help you in your day to day life.
Although I appreciate your invitation, I must respectfully decline. The reason I don't participate in online Bible study is because there are too many folks I am not in agreement with, and spending time 'disagreeing' on points would take away from what it's supposed to be. I do my Bible Study alone with the Lord in the mornings, and with my Family and Brethern from our congregation who are of like mind
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Tra, that's Wonderful News! I'm glad the Lord gave you confirmation today!
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Psalm 119:104Through thy precepts I get understanding: therefore I hate every false way. 105Thy word is a lamp unto my feet, and a light unto my path.
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trafield
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yahsway,
Shalom!
It is probably too far for you if you live in middle TN...but the name of the church is Hosanna Fellowship Church, and it is located in Johnson City in Northeast TN. The pastor actually talked about trouble and persecution today and actually discussed how we need to grow in maturity to have the faith that would enable us to lay it all down for Jesus, even to the point of death if need be.
Last week I was running late and when I got to church I looked for the few remaining seats left. I ended up sitting behind a man that I spoke with after worship and learned he was also from my home town of Orlando. This man was not the pastor, but I soon learned that it was planned for him to give the message that week...and he spoke about endtime prophecy! It was then that I began to feel that the hand of God had place me there.
Today was more confirmation, praise God!
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HisGrace
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quote:
Originally posted by trafield:
Soft Touch, What has it been...2 years?
And you're still on your Rick Warren crusade?
As they say, the more things change the more they stay the same. ![[happyhappy]](graemlins/happyhappy.gif)
SoftTouch, it would be refreshing to see you in Bible Study with your own personal insight about how the scriptures help you in your day to day life.
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yahsway
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Hi trafield, i am from middle TN, can you tell me what church it is you ae attending? i might be interested in attending. Thanks and Shalom
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HisGrace
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quote:
Originally posted by trafield:
I have been in Tennessee now since September and may have just found my first sound, biblically balanced church.
Yes, this is SO important. I belong to such a church as well. They even have Bibles on the back of the seats, which people can turn to when scriptures are being read. ![[Cross]](graemlins/cross.gif) ![[Bible]](graemlins/bible.gif)
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SoftTouch
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quote:
Originally posted by trafield:
Soft Touch, What has it been...2 years?
And you're still on your Rick Warren crusade?
As they say, the more things change the more they stay the same.
I have been in Tennessee now since September and may have just found my first sound, biblically balanced church. I need to go some more to be sure.
It has been a long time Bro! It's good to see you again ![[hug]](graemlins/hug.gif) And Yep, This ole sheepdog is still barking about the wolves in sheeps clothing. At least I am consistent
I'm so glad to hear you've found what looks to be a Biblically Solid Church! That is Wonderful! I pray it will be everything the Lord wants a congregation to be!
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Psalm 119:104Through thy precepts I get understanding: therefore I hate every false way. 105Thy word is a lamp unto my feet, and a light unto my path.
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trafield
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Soft Touch, What has it been...2 years?
And you're still on your Rick Warren crusade?
As they say, the more things change the more they stay the same.
Seriously, though, I know you are hitting on a big, big, big, problem, that all of us with the spirit of prophecy (since we value the TRUTH of God's Word more than anything) can sense. That there is a major apostasy with much of the leadership in churches across America. Of course we we told this would be coming in the last days..and will get worse before the antichrist is finally revealed.
I have been in Tennessee now since September and may have just found my first sound, biblically balanced church. I need to go some more to be sure. But what I have seen makes me want to weep. Too many churches without Bibles...Too many churches not undertanding the true concept of being born again and having the certainty about their salvation...too many churches not even giving messages from the Word but spending all their time in "worship" looking for an experience and chasing after a sign...too many churches defining truth by their feelings rather than the Word....too many churches not even offering an invitation or an evagelical message to the lost because they are too busy entertaining their current Christian audience....and on, and on, and on.
But as for me and my house, we will serve the Lord. And we will declare the Truth boldy and without fear, and without compromise..but may the Lord show me how to do this without the frustration I so often feel, so that I not forget the commandment of love that I am to have for all.
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SoftTouch
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Hummmm... I go by "Quotes" of what Warren has said too (in fact entire sections of his books) - specifically the one's that Don't line up with Scripture. That is the Test. I have Tested the spirit and found it to be false.
My conscience is clear and Warren is NOT Annointed of God (Neither is Hinn, Copeland, Osteen, nor any other self-proclaimed preacher/prophet/teacher who teaches twisted or against scripture). This is a very Plain and Simple Truth
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Psalm 119:104Through thy precepts I get understanding: therefore I hate every false way. 105Thy word is a lamp unto my feet, and a light unto my path.
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HisGrace
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posted
quote:
Originally posted by SoftTouch:
To anyone who is taken in by Rick Warren's False Teaching... PLEASE WAKE UP!
You know SoftTouch, I probably don't know anymore about Rick Warren than you do. You always follow articles from other sites, and I go by quotes he has made, which have been Bible-based.
I honestly don't know if his full message is errant, but I wouldn't want to take the risk of going against God's anointed one if it weren't true.
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SoftTouch
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AMEN Brothers Joe and Eduardo, and Sister Linda!!! AMEN!!!
quote:
Originally posted by Eduardo Grequi:
He said and I quote" Our God is a changing God, for He chooses his messanger regardless if it is a Buddist."
quote:
Malachi 3:6 For I am the LORD, I change not;
Hebrews 13:8 Jesus Christ the same yesterday, and to day, and for ever.
And the above quotes don't even begin to address the issue of the fact that God will NOT Speak HIS Truth through anyone who is NOT In Jesus Christ!
To anyone who is taken in by Rick Warren's False Teaching... PLEASE WAKE UP!
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Psalm 119:104Through thy precepts I get understanding: therefore I hate every false way. 105Thy word is a lamp unto my feet, and a light unto my path.
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Eduardo Grequi
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Greetings Helpforhomeschoolers and the rest of the brethern, LOOK UP FOR REDEMPTION DRAWETH NIGH!
I was listening to this guy Rick Warren, He has no back bone when it concerns sound biblical truth. When I say this- I compare his message to the word of God. We must be like the Bereans when listening to the messenger! The Bereans were more noble than their counterparts because they searched the Word of God to see if those things are so! Christian Integrity is defined by and through the word of God. His message was almost identical to the 12 leading principles of the Baha'ism faith. One difference between the Christian faith and many other world religions is the historical nature of the Bible. Christian faith is solidly and inseperably based upon history. Rick Warren's identification is similar to Baha'ism when it compares to the unchanging God- God's revelation. He said and I quote" Our God is a changing God, for He chooses his messanger regardless if it is a Buddist." We as Christian have a written and closed record to depend on- when CHRISTIANS TAMPER with the occults or any other world religion and mix it with the Bible to come up with FAST FOOD CHRISTIANITY- THEN THIS IS APOSTACY. IF WE AS CHRISTIANS remove Adam,Eve,Eden,Flood,Moses,the Prophets, Jesus, Pentecost and the Apostles- we have no concrete and assured written record. WE AS CHRISTIANS ARE EXPOSED TO AN ISSUE AT HAND-
IF IT FEELS GOOD, THEN IT MUST BE GODLY. THEREFORE IF IT IS GODLY, THEN IT IS IRREVELANT WHAT THE BIBLE SAYS. This is exactly what our children have been learning for the last 40 years or so in the USA. Lets face it and understand that all Pastors and Bishop etc..want to be successful. If the ability to be successful depends on having a full church , then all churches outside the USA would be defaulted. THE SUCCESS OF ANY CHURCH DEPENDS HOW WELL THE MINISTER EDUCATES THEIR CONGREGATION (REGARDLESS HOW MANY PEOPLE SIT IN THE PEWS) IN THE TENETS OF THE FAITH AND FOR THOSE WHO ARE CALLED TO DEFEND IT IN DETAIL- MUST TAKE ON THE ENORMOUS TASK OF STUDYING APOLOGETICS.
I MAKE NO APOLOGY FOR MY FAITH IN CHRIST. I MAKE NO APOLOGY FOR MY NEARMINDEDNESS WHEN IT CONCERNS THE BIBLE. We have to learn how to affect and ministrate the love of God without compromising the Sword of the Lord.
Thanks for the Post Helpforhomeschoolers! ![[clap2]](graemlins/clap2.gif) ![[Kiss]](graemlins/Kiss.gif)
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helpforhomeschoolers
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Amen BrotherJoe! It is nice to see there are still some around who know apostasy when they hear it! Welcome to the board.
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BrotherJoe
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Warren is just a small example of what the "church world" is reproducing. We, as a church, are being impacted by the world rather than the world being impacted by the church.
We live in a day where preachers will refrain from speaking against sin just to keep the numbers up. This is the heartbeat of the mega-church. Not, "What can we do to serve the church" but "What can your church do for ME"!
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SoftTouch
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I JUST got this book "Redefining Christianity" by DeWaay. (It took about 3 weeks to get here) I haven't had a chance to read it yet, but it looks to be Very Good and Informative! As soon as I get the time to dedicate to reading it, I'll share some excerpts here
Thanks for this article Sis!
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Psalm 119:104Through thy precepts I get understanding: therefore I hate every false way. 105Thy word is a lamp unto my feet, and a light unto my path.
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helpforhomeschoolers
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I do not know Tony Warren, MAC, but from briefly looking at a couple of pages on his site, I would not think that they are related.
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Miguel
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Homes, is this guy related to Tony Warren? I donk think he is but just to be sure!
http://www.mountainretreatorg.net/
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Romans 9:11-24
Our Eschatology may vary even our Ecclesiology may be disputed among us but our Soteriology most assume a singularity and exclusivity which in biblical term is known as Quote; "The Narrow Way" and Quote!
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helpforhomeschoolers
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The Gospel According to Rick Warren
By Ingrid Schlueter - January 25, 2006
http://sliceoflaodicea.com
See also Warren's P.E.A.C.E. Plan & UN Goals - Part 1 of 3
The Philadelphia Inquirer ran a story on Rick Warren on Sunday, January 8, 2006 that tells us a great deal about the man who is changing the face of American evangelicalism. Here's an excerpt:
"Warren predicts that fundamentalism, of all varieties, will be one of the big enemies of the 21st Century. 'Muslim fundamentalism, Christian fundamentalism, Jewish fundamentalism, secular fundamentalism-they're all motivated by fear. Fear of each other.'"
This remark is no surprise to Pastor Bob DeWaay of Twin City Fellowship in Minneapolis. DeWaay has just published a book that shines the spotlight on Rick Warren's brand of Christianity and its sobering implications for the church. The title of DeWaay's new book, Redefining Christianity: Understanding the Purpose Driven Movement describes what a growing number of Christians are seeing. Rick Warren has subtly and critically changed the message of the Gospel.
In the forward to the book, Gary Gilley, author of This Little Church Went to Market and pastor of Southern View Chapel in Springfield, Illinois, writes,
"Bob (DeWaay) painstakingly shows that Rick Warren has done for the church what McDonald's has done for the restaurant industry. Unfortunately, the church is not in the hamburger flipping business. Applying franchising principles to Christ's church may result in outward success, but true success cannot be measured by simply reading the bottom line of 'nickels and noses,' buildings and programs.
But there is a bottom line by which to measure the church: it is doctrinal integrity. The church is the pillar and support of the truth (I Timothy 3:15). If the church fails in its God-given mission of upholding, defending and propagating the truth then it fails. Period. It is on this level that Bob DeWaay challenges Rick Warren's 'Purpose Driven' agenda.
Is the Warren franchise successful? By every criteria that a retail franchise can be measured, the answer is a clear yes. But how is the Warren franchise doing with the all important commodity of truth is concerned?..."
In his steady, scholarly way, Bob DeWaay demonstrates that the Gospel of Rick Warren is not a biblical call to sinners to throw down their rebel arms at the cross and embrace the salvation offered by the Lord Jesus Christ. Nowhere in the Purpose Driven Life are readers told that sinners (what an archaic term now) are under the wrath and curse of God unless they believe on the Lord Jesus Christ and his atoning sacrifice on the cross. Rick Warren instead retools the Gospel message to appeal to the unregenerate. He does not believe that God's purposes are declared in his revealed Word, but rather teaches that the unsaved should go on a journey of self-discovery in order to locate God's purposes for their lives.
To Rick Warren, church growth is not the result of the Holy Spirit converting sinners as seen in the book of Acts but is the result of the latest marketing techniques that will make church attractive to those who don't know Jesus Christ. Thousands of churches are now Purpose Driven franchises with success hungry pastors taking their cues and even their sermons from Rick Warren. Rick Warren calls this "Church-in-a-box" and he offers it on his numerous websites. But the true Gospel of Christ, the narrow way that Christ spoke of in the Bible, has been altered to suit the world. Numerical success may be achieved, but the Gospel must be obscured to do it Warren's way.
Redefining Christianity has excellent chapters in which the author deals with Rick Warren's redefining of terms like "vision" and "commitment" and his misuse of countless Bible versions and paraphrases in trying to justify his teachings. The most important chapter in the book deals with the Gospel according to Rick Warren. The author points out that when original sin and the blood atonement are removed from the message, there is no "good news". The world is then being given a gospel that is false. It really is that serious.
Rick Warren's distaste for Christian fundamentalism as expressed in the Philadelphia Inquirer is a result of his distaste for the fundamentals of God's Word. Those who insist on hearkening back to the Word of God stand in direct opposition to Warren's "Purpose-Driven" marketing tsunami. Rick's much vaunted PEACE plan, his unprecedented popularity with the secular media and his continuing ascendancy in American evangelicalism is dependent upon those pastors and leaders who are willing to set aside the clear dictates of God's Word in order to ride the coattails of Rick Warren and his temporal success. Fundamentalists get in the way.
In the midst of the marketing hype and popular clamor for Rick Warren's man-centered Gospel, may the clear voice of our Savior Jesus Christ cut through the din.
"Enter ye in at the strait gate: for wide is the gate, and broad is the way, that leadeth to destruction, and many there be which go in thereat: because strait is the gate, and narrow is the way, and few there be that find it." Matthew 7:13-14
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© 2006 Ingrid Schlueter
Ingrid Schlueter has been producer and co-host of the Crosstalk Radio Talk Show on the VCY America Radio Network for 18 years. She is author of numerous articles on current issues and is a regular columnist for Wisconsin Christian News. She has also authored, Parent Police: The UN Wants Your Children. Email: vcyproducer@aol.com Website: http://sliceoflaodicea.com
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