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Topic: doctrines of demons
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WhiteEagle
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posted
quote:
Originally posted by wparr:
Maybe it's time to start a topic FOCUSED on the heresy of Ordaining homosexuals as pastors/elders/bishops and they heresy of The Church performing homosexual marriages and blessing homosexual unions?
I agree.
In Canada it's illegal for a pastor to even preach it from the pulpit.
In my state we are forced to have another referedum in November about making homosexuality a protected status against discrimination. It's the 3rd time in less than 10 years.
Actually the governor of Maine just passed it as a law last June with the legislature's blessing of course without any public debate or fanfare. They just suddenly did it.
We had a petition drive to overturn this law and the group did get enough signatures to force a vote in November.
With this law providing no discrimination to people who practice homosexuality, it means that men who are gay could use the women's bathroom, come to work in a dress, talk about their sex life at work, use it to sue employer's that don't hire them, use it to sue landlords for discrimation, and if they happen to be subject to a robbery, it would suddenly be a hate crime.
It also puts the church at risk for law suits. If a church say, refuses to allow a gay person to teach Sunday School, due to moral reasons, the church could be sued.
It certainly gives homosexuals power over people, and will make it even harder to speak up against their acts. Because one could face jail or a lawsuit for saying anything against their behaviors.
I know that several members of the Maine legislature are gay.
In America we still have the remnants of democracy and the people still have a voice, the church has a voice, if they will only use it.
Posts: 1392 | From: Maine | Registered: Aug 2004
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wparr
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posted
Maybe it's time to start a topic FOCUSED on the heresy of Ordaining homosexuals as pastors/elders/bishops and they heresy of The Church performing homosexual marriages and blessing homosexual unions?
Posts: 1203 | From: Eagle Nest, NM | Registered: Jan 2003
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WhiteEagle
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posted
quote:
Originally posted by wparr:
WhiteEagle
You opened to the door on this topic to Joyce Meyer with your question on the first post.
Sorry.... I guess I did mention her. I just didn't intend for Joyce to be the topic again.
Posts: 1392 | From: Maine | Registered: Aug 2004
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BORN AGAIN
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posted
Sister TEXASGRANDMA writes to BORN AGAIN quote:
changing your teaching to make gays feel at home.
Sister, do they now have Homosexual Bibles? No. Any homosexual can go to a Christian bookstore and buy a KJV and read about Sodom and Gomorrah. And read the above quotes about "unseemly".
But that does not mean that it's a good start to get themselves "saved first by faith in Jesus" and then start reading the Word and hear the Word in their church, and with the help of the LORD God of Israel, may some of them be set free from the sin of homosexuality, just as some of us may be set free from what ails us.
God bless, ![[Cross]](graemlins/cross.gif) BORN AGAIN
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TEXASGRANDMA
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posted
There is a difference in reaching out to gays and changing your teaching to make gays feel at home.
Is a Preacher doing a person a favor when they make them believe that can live a gay lifestyle and go to Heaven? I don't think so.
betty
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Luk 21:28 And when these things begin to come to pass, then look up, and lift up your heads; for your redemption draweth nigh.
http://www.indieheaven.com/artists/mm (son-in-law)http://www.myspace.com/mireles
Posts: 4985 | From: Washington State | Registered: Jan 2003
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BORN AGAIN
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The Bible declares that homosexuality is an abominable sin:
Romans 1:27
And likewise also the men, leaving the natural use of the woman, burned in their lust one toward another; men with men working that which is unseemly, and receiving in themselves that recompense of their error which was proper.
Deuteronomy 23:17
There shall be no ***** of the daughters of Israel, nor a sodomite of the sons of Israel.
But is homosexuality not a sin like a lie and a theft and a curse from the lips and like any other sin, or is anyone proposing that homosexuality is a greater sin than other sins?
But certainly, homosexuality is a sin, and none of us are sinless either, most of us are not participants in that sin of homosexuality, thank God Elohom, because it is a most-difficult one to exit from, kinda like my girlfriend's crack cocaine addiction; but don't bother to tell me your sin and I won't bore you mine.
Only Yahshua-Jesus was sinless:
Hebrews 4:15
For we have not a high priest who cannot be touched with the feeling of our infirmities; but was in all points tempted like as we are, yet without sin.
Hebrews 9:28
So Christ was once offered to bear the sins of many; and unto them who look for Him shall He appear the second time without sin unto salvation.
To get homosexuals into the church to get them saved is important, for, can homosexuals now not be covered by the blood of Jesus? Everything is covered by the blood in Jesus.
I would rather see them in a Church saved and acknowledging and aligning themselves with God's opinion of themselves, namely that they are sinners like we, than somewhere other than church.
May the LORD God suceed in setting some of them free from homosexuality even in this life.
I am BORN AGAIN by the of Yahshua-Jesus
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HisGrace
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posted
quote:
Originally posted by wparr:
If someone says they are a Christian, but turns around and state that homosexuality IS NOT a sin, then this shows that they are rebeling against God, and that they haven't really repented yet.
Those are the people we should be targeting and not the ones who stress "Ye must be born again", and many of them do.
Everyone is focusing on the negative instead of what good these people do with the money they gather. In light of how I pointed out in an earlier post that Joyce Meyer's words were twisted, a lot of these sites have a hay day twisting everything they say. I have posted a very lengthy narrative on another thread regarding the charities and homes that Joyce Meyer is involved with, but it was totally ignored.
I am sure there a few charletons out there on TV and they would be in the minority. I am not familiar with this DayStar programme.
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wparr
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posted
WhiteEagle
You opened to the door on this topic to Joyce Meyer with your question on the first post.
I TOTALLY agree with your take on the issue of homosexuality.
The proble is people claiming to be christians are picking and choosing what they want to believe from God's Word.
But GOD DOES NOT CHANGE.
If he hated it 4,000 years ago - HE HATES IT NOW.
But as you pointed out, we need to reach them and show them ALL of God.
Part of the meaning of repentance is agreeing with God when He says something is sin.
If someone says they have repented, and accepted Christ, that they agree with God that homosexuality is a sin, and that they are struggling with it.
To me this shows The Holy Spirit at work, and we are to come along side them.
If someone says they are a Christian, but turns around and state that homosexuality IS NOT a sin, then this shows that they are rebeling against God, and that they haven't really repented yet.
Posts: 1203 | From: Eagle Nest, NM | Registered: Jan 2003
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TEXASGRANDMA
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I spent last week watching DayStar. I could not believe the promises that they gave people who would pledge to send 48 dollars a month.
It was Gospel for sale.
broke my heart.
betty
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Luk 21:28 And when these things begin to come to pass, then look up, and lift up your heads; for your redemption draweth nigh.
http://www.indieheaven.com/artists/mm (son-in-law)http://www.myspace.com/mireles
Posts: 4985 | From: Washington State | Registered: Jan 2003
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WhiteEagle
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Why is it so hard to stay on topic?
Why is Joyce Meyers getting hashed over again?
I agree with Grace, that we only know that Jesus' sacrifice paid the price and that He took the sins of the whole world past present and future on his body and he suffered for us, that we don't have to suffer for our sins. The exact hows and details are not told to us, and I find Joyce Meyer's statements as trying to get the impact of Christ's sacrifce across to people.
What should the true Church say about the concrete direct heresy of homosexuality being sinless?
Are people afraid to touch this because of fear of repercussions in the world?
Yet it's easy to tear down another preacher of the gospel, because it's not of the world?
What's the problem?
Even preachers who are offering money as God's blessings, and taking the flock's money for gain, while that is wrong, they are preaching the gospel of Christ and God states His Word will not return void.
Back 100 years ago, many pious Christians believed whole-heartedly in segregation and would not allow blacks and whites to worship together.
They cited Noah and Ham and the flood for their wrong reasoning and added things to scripture to make their false teaching. Slavery was tolerated by these Christians as we know our country finally saw the light and fought a civil war over it.
Yet as hard as it is for me to accept, many of these prejudiced people are really Christians, but were still walking in darkness due to the lies of their time period. Wordly logic also worked to confirm their error, as Darwin's Theory of Evolution was based on believing that blacks were inferior to whites.
While I believe that people who are enslaved to homosexuality can be saved, I also believe they need to repent of their sins, just like the rest of us do.
Worldly logic seeks to confirm the lie of the Episcipal Church, as worldly scientists try to prove that homosexuals are born that way and need not be ashamed or need to repent of that particular sin. As it's not a sin, is the logic.
Posts: 1392 | From: Maine | Registered: Aug 2004
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wparr
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See you can't stand on the merits of the argument, so attack the posters personally, where in the Bible does it say to use THAT tactic????
I USE to listen to and watch Joyce Meyer'$ till my eyes were opened.
The VERY FIRST time I watched K. Copeland on TV as a baby Christian he finished his his show by telling us to pray "Money to me, money to me"
I've BEEN to Lakewood Church and seen FIRST HAND what goes on there.
You DON"T have to eat poison to KNOW it's bad for you.
Go ahead and attack personally, won't change the truth ONE LITTLE BIT.
It won't affect my feelings because I know where it comes from: that's satan's tactic.
I look for certain BIBLICAL qualities in Christian leaders and teachers to be modeled.
I DON'T see them in the false teachers.
2 Corinthians 6:1-10
(1) And working together with Him, we also urge you not to receive the grace of God in vain--
(2) for He says, "AT THE ACCEPTABLE TIME I LISTENED TO YOU, AND ON THE DAY OF SALVATION I HELPED YOU." Behold, now is "THE ACCEPTABLE TIME," behold, now is "THE DAY OF SALVATION"--
(3) giving no cause for offense in anything, so that the ministry will not be discredited,
(4) but in everything commending ourselves as servants of God, in much endurance, in afflictions, in hardships, in distresses,
(5) in beatings, in imprisonments, in tumults, in labors, in sleeplessness, in hunger,
(6) in purity, in knowledge, in patience, in kindness, in the Holy Spirit, in genuine love,
(7) in the word of truth, in the power of God; by the weapons of righteousness for the right hand and the left,
(8) by glory and dishonor, by evil report and good report; regarded as deceivers and yet true;
(9) as unknown yet well-known, as dying yet behold, we live; as punished yet not put to death,
(10) as sorrowful yet always rejoicing, as poor yet making many rich, as having nothing yet possessing all things.
Luke 22:25-27
(25) And He said to them, "The kings of the Gentiles lord it over them; and those who have authority over them are called 'Benefactors.'
(26) "But it is not this way with you, but the one who is the greatest among you must become like the youngest, and the leader like the servant.
(27) "For who is greater, the one who reclines at the table or the one who serves? Is it not the one who reclines at the table? But I am among you as the one who serves.
Mark 10:43-45
(43) "But it is not this way among you, but whoever wishes to become great among you shall be your servant;
(44) and whoever wishes to be first among you shall be slave of all.
(45) "For even the Son of Man did not come to be served, but to serve, and to give His life a ransom for many."
Mark 9:35
Sitting down, He called the twelve and *said to them, "If anyone wants to be first, he shall be last of all and servant of all."
Matthew 23:11-15
(11) "But the greatest among you shall be your servant.
(12) "Whoever exalts himself shall be humbled; and whoever humbles himself shall be exalted.
(13) "But woe to you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites, because you shut off the kingdom of heaven from people; for you do not enter in yourselves, nor do you allow those who are entering to go in.
(14) ["Woe to you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites, because you devour widows' houses, and for a pretense you make long prayers; therefore you will receive greater condemnation.]
(15) "Woe to you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites, because you travel around on sea and land to make one proselyte; and when he becomes one, you make him twice as much a son of hell as yourselves.
Luke 9:23-24
(23) And He was saying to them all, "If anyone wishes to come after Me, he must deny himself, and take up his cross daily and follow Me.
(24) "For whoever wishes to save his life will lose it, but whoever loses his life for My sake, he is the one who will save it.
And here is a warning.
2 Corinthians 11:13-15
(13) For such men are false apostles, deceitful workers, disguising themselves as apostles of Christ.
(14) No wonder, for even Satan disguises himself as an angel of light.
(15) Therefore it is not surprising if his servants also disguise themselves as servants of righteousness, whose end will be according to their deeds.
Posts: 1203 | From: Eagle Nest, NM | Registered: Jan 2003
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HisGrace
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One member on this Board once shocked me after contributing to thread after thread after thread about these TV preachers with the words.
"I don't really read Christian books or watch preachers on TV."
Makes you wonder where such a person gets the reams of garbage about these preachers.
(This comment was made on this forum under the thread "Any thoughts on this picture")
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wparr
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But Jesus WAS'T the first born again man.
The Bible NEVER makes that claim.
Jesus WAS NEVER dead spiritually like we were, so there was no need for Him to be Born Again.
Posts: 1203 | From: Eagle Nest, NM | Registered: Jan 2003
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wparr
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What I posted was from her 91 edition, she DID say it, though she omitted that from her later revs.
But has she stated she was wrong in that teaching?
We don't know all the details what happened during the 3 days, so we shouldn't try to come up with something and teach it.
I stand by my assertion she is a FALSE teacher, and her materialistic lifestle fruit is one of the indications.
Posts: 1203 | From: Eagle Nest, NM | Registered: Jan 2003
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HisGrace
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quote:
Originally posted by wparr:
“There is no hope of anyone going to heaven unless they believe this truth I am presenting. You cannot go to heaven unless you believe with all your heart that Jesus took your place in hell.”pg 37
I know Joyce Meyer well enough to know that she wouldn't say that - those words have been distorted.
THE TRUTH
There is no hope of anyone going to heaven unless they believe this truth. You cannot go to heaven unless you believe with all your heart that Jesus took your place. He became your substitute and took all the punishment you deserve. He bore all your sins. He paid the dept you owe...Jesus went to hell for you. He died for you. He paid for your sins." (Page 43, 1996-Edition)
That a person must believe in their heart that Jesus took their place on the cross, He died spiritually, (implied) was separated from the Father, tormented by demons in hell, (1991-Edition) Jesus is the first born again man. (1991-Edition) What is the Gospel?
She is saying that we have to believe that Jesus took our place on the cross, not that we have to believe that he went to hell. If she is erring in her interpretation about his going into hell, that doesn't affect our salvation in my opinion.
The Bible isn't crystal clear on what happened to Jesus during those three days.
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wparr
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From Joyce Meyer'$ 1991 booklet, The Most Important Decision You Will Ever Make
Teaching a hallmark doctrine of Faith theology, namely, that Christ had to suffer in hell to atone for our sins and be born again:
During that time He entered hell, where you and I deserved to go (legally) because of our sin….He paid the price there.…no plan was too extreme…Jesus paid on the cross and in hell….God rose up from His throne and said to demon powers tormenting the sinless Son of God, “Let Him go.” Then the resurrection power of Almighty God went through hell and filled Jesus….He was resurrected from the dead becoming the first born-again man.
pgs 35 & 36
“There is no hope of anyone going to heaven unless they believe this truth I am presenting. You cannot go to heaven unless you believe with all your heart that Jesus took your place in hell.”
pg 37
I DO NOT DO NOT DO NOT beleive this load of garbage, so according to Joyce Meyer I am NOT a Christian.
This doctrine DIDN'T come from God, so WHO is wispering in her ear
"Now spirits don’t have bodies, so we can’t see them. Okay? There probably is, I believe there is, and I certainly hope there is several angels up here this morning that are preaching with me. I believe that right before I speak some anointed statement to you, that one of them bends over and says in my ear what I’m supposed to say to you."
[Meter - Witchcraft & Related Spirits (Audiotape, Part 1)]
Talk about doctrine of demons
Posts: 1203 | From: Eagle Nest, NM | Registered: Jan 2003
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WhiteEagle
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wparr
Why attack those who you are not sure are False, when we do have those who are truly and obviously false, such as those who say homosexuality is Not a sin and that God will accept their sin without repentance.
This is a big issue and a IS leading many straight to Hell for Real.
I have never ,never, never heard Joyce Meyer or Kenneth Copeland say that we didn't need Jesus or didn't need to repent and forgive, and to accept the Blood of Christ as our redemption. I've never heard them condone any type of sin as being OK and not needing repentance. They don't say to people "Well you were born that way, so God loves you." They still teach repentance of sins and to examine one's life for sin.
Posts: 1392 | From: Maine | Registered: Aug 2004
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wparr
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HisGrace said quote:
Instead of looking over there where we can't be sure if we are targeting God's anointed ones, frequently by hearsay only, we should be looking over here and exposing with prayer and discernment this "blatant blasphemy of the Gospel with lies"
I ask
Can't we do both?
Do we stop worrying about one because of the other?
NOPE, not me anyway.
False is false
dead is dead, it doesn't matter to the degree
Do people stop worring about heart attacks because of cancer.
I'm not unsure if the false teachers I "target" are God's anoited ones.
The Bible gives us enough "discriptions" of false teachers to KNOW that Joyce Meyer, Copeland, Hinn, ect ect.. are in that camp.
Jesus told us that we will know them by their fruit.
And Alot of their evident fruit if greed and lust for the material world.
They preach by the power of the almighty dollar, NOT by the power of the blood of Jesus.
Posts: 1203 | From: Eagle Nest, NM | Registered: Jan 2003
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TEXASGRANDMA
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I personally put Preachers that condone homosexuality in the same group of false preachers. They are leading people straight to hell. They are some the preachers who have watered down the truth to be PC.
betty
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Luk 21:28 And when these things begin to come to pass, then look up, and lift up your heads; for your redemption draweth nigh.
http://www.indieheaven.com/artists/mm (son-in-law)http://www.myspace.com/mireles
Posts: 4985 | From: Washington State | Registered: Jan 2003
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HisGrace
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quote:
Originally posted by WhiteEagle:
Every seems so concerned about how certain ministers interpret how to walk in faith and like to call them false teachers, such as Joyce Meyers, but what about this blatant blasphemy of the Gospel which lies and states that homosexuality is NOT a sin.
I have often asked myself the same question WhiteEagle?? Instead of looking over there where we can't be sure if we are targeting God's anointed ones, frequently by hearsay only, we should be looking over here and exposing with prayer and discernment this "blatant blasphemy of the Gospel with lies"
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WhiteEagle
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What are thoughts regarding the Epicopal Church and it's split over condoning homosexuals as ministers?
Isn't this a heresy? Isn't this ungodly?
Is this part of Christ's true Church?
Every seems so concerned about how certain ministers interpret how to walk in faith and like to call them false teachers, such as Joyce Meyers, but what about this blatant blasphemy of the Gospel which lies and states that homosexuality is NOT a sin.
Posts: 1392 | From: Maine | Registered: Aug 2004
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