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Topic: The Bible Admonishes Us To Expose Error
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BORN AGAIN
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Sister TEXASGRANDMA writes to BORN AGAIN quote:
This section is for exposing false teaching. I suggest as loving as I can, if exposing false teaching offends you, then maybe you should ignore this section.
If you watch Christian Station for a week all day, you will find false teachers today. They are out there. For those who feel it is important to expose false teachers, then we should be allowed to do so. Certain people had a fit until we got this section and now the same people complain when we post in this section. You cannot have it both ways. {bold emphasis by BORN AGAIN}
Can't have it both ways? Who are you kidding? Don't you have the right to freely participate on the Bible Study Forum? I never forfeited my right to participate on this "Exposing False Teachers" forum.
You don't see me getting "mad" about it, do you? As long as I stay "civilized" I should be able to give my opinion on the whole matter. This is America, freedom of speech.
As long as I stay friendly, and I have stayed friendly, I speak about this Topic like any other Topic--I don't agree with it and I state so courteously.
God bless, ![[Cross]](graemlins/cross.gif) BORN AGAIN
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TEXASGRANDMA
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posted
I disagree. I have seen many so called Bible experts on the Discovery Channel discusing how they have study the Bible and have a Theology degree and talk about how "the red sea never parted", "the flood never happend", etc. Just because someone studies the Bible does not make them a Christian.
This section is for exposing false teaching. I suggest as loving as I can, if exposing false teaching offends you, then maybe you should ignore this section.
If you watch Christian Station for a week all day, you will find false teachers today. They are out there. For those who feel it is important to expose false teachers, then we should be allowed to do so. Certain people had a fit until we got this section and now the same people complain when we post in this section. You cannot have it both ways.
betty
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Luk 21:28 And when these things begin to come to pass, then look up, and lift up your heads; for your redemption draweth nigh.
http://www.indieheaven.com/artists/mm (son-in-law)http://www.myspace.com/mireles
Posts: 4985 | From: Washington State | Registered: Jan 2003
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BORN AGAIN
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Sister TEXASGRANDMA writes: quote:
I believe there are more false preachers today than ever. Not only that, but with worldwide televsion and the internet, these preachers are more dangerous than in Paul's day. A preacher from Paul's day could not reach more than who could attend his meeting. Today a weirdo can go on line put a Rev. in front of their name and reach millions.
Reach millions with what, sister TEXASGRANDMA? Before anyone can to that, they first have to learn the Bible and read it and study it thoroughly before they can have anything to say on T.V..
Johnny Squat cannot just decide in his hotel room one day to start a "Christian" T.V. program to "make lots of money" and "deceive lots of people". Johnny Squat would first have to learn the Bible thoroughly.
Now, there HAVE been CHARLATANS who knew some Biblical phrases, like ELMER GANTRY and JIM JONES, but these are FEW and absolutely not "more false teachers NOW than ever".
It just isn't true. The worst thing that there is in the Christian church is people not reading their Bible enough, and yet, they of course have to form a doctrine that "would have gotten fleshed out" had they studied their Bibles more."
A lack of Bible study is the problem, NOT many false teachers, sister TEXASGRANDMA.
God bless, :BORN AGAIN
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TEXASGRANDMA
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I believe there are more false preachers today than ever. Not only that, but with world wide televsion and the internet these preachers are more dangerous than in Paul's day. A preacher from Paul's day could not reach more than who could attend his meeting. Today a weirdo can go on line put a Rev. in front of their name and reach millions. This is not even counting well known popular Preachers who have started watering down the truth of the Gospel to please the big crowds. There are those who have been going to Lakewood for over 30 years. Little by little they
have been under preaching that has gotten watered down. Like a frog in water slowly getting hotter, but instead getting colder and colder. Sadly some may not notice it all. Should we have no compassion on them.
Yes, those who prefer sugar coated Gospel must bear the burden of their choice, but this in no way takes away the price the Preacher will pay for leading his flock into hell.
BA,
Why does it bother you that some Christians feel a need to care for babies in Christ? I can see you feel no compassion for babies in Christ, but I feel it is more than that.
betty
p.s. BA, I prayed for you yesterday that God will help you have compassion for others.
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Luk 21:28 And when these things begin to come to pass, then look up, and lift up your heads; for your redemption draweth nigh.
http://www.indieheaven.com/artists/mm (son-in-law)http://www.myspace.com/mireles
Posts: 4985 | From: Washington State | Registered: Jan 2003
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BORN AGAIN
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My dear bornagain brother wparr wrote me yesterday, and said to me {WARNING: If WRITING IN ALL CAPITAL LETTERS OFFEND YOU, turn your eyes AWAY from the following mesage from wparr {I, BORN AGAIN, have numbered each line) quote:
IT 1. DOES NOT MATTER WHAT YOU OR I THINK
2a. WHAT DOES GOD'S WORD SAY HERE
2b. Huh BA????
3. Why are you so fighting against God's Word in this area?????
With the help of the Holy Spirit, these are my answers or non-answers to these three statements, wparr.
wparr writes to BORN AGAIN: quote:
1. DOES NOT MATTER WHAT YOU OR I THINK?
Well...yah... without thinking I would not have accepted justification/redemption/salvation from the LORD God of Israel. It matters a lot what I think about the Bible.
Every time I read the Bible, the Bible asks me, "What do you think about what you just read, BORN AGAIN?" My answer comes out of WHAT I THINK.
wparr next wrote to BORN AGAIN: quote:
2a. WHAT DOES GOD'S WORD SAY HERE?
2b. Huh BA????
I don't know, wparr...why don't you enlighten me about what God's Word says here, huh wparr????.
wparr also wrote to BORN AGAIN quote:
3. Why are you so fighting against God's Word in this area?????
That's a good question, wparr.
For one thing, every Christian has opinions about the Bible, and I also like to express my opinions about the Bible, and you do too, wparr.
You say to BORN AGAIN, "Why are you so fighting against God's Word in this area?????" But notice that you, wparr, DO NOT GIVE God's Word here yourself.
I think that there are some parts of the Bible that were for "their own time only" and ARE NO LONGER FOR US of the Church of Jesus Christ 2,000 years later.
So for example we no longer carry a physical tabernacle with golden staves, because the REAL tabernacle, Yahshua-Jesus, has come, and the shadow of the real is soon forgotten or diminished by the Far Greater.
And likewise, I think that the New Testament references to FALSE TEACHERS were necessary in the 1st century A.D. because it was just such a radical idea that justification/redemption/salvation could now be had ONLY BY FAITH IN JESUS CHRIST.
And not only that, this justification/redemption/salvation BY FAITH IN JESUS CHRIST was ALSO EXTENDED TO THE GENTILES???
Israel and Judah had lived under the law of Moses for about 1,500 years when justification/redemption/salvation only by faith in Jesus Christ was created by the LORD God of Israel. Many in Judah and Israel were astonished!
This brought in numerous false teachers who tried to pull the Christians back under the umbrella of the law of Moses.
Even the Jewish Christian Peter dissimulated in Antioch of Syria when men came from James of Jerusalem and Peter "stopped eating with the Gentiles" when "men came from James":
Galatians 2
12 For before that certain came from James, he did eat with the Gentiles: but when they were come, he withdrew and separated himself, fearing them which were of the circumcision.
13 And the other Jews dissembled likewise with him; insomuch that Barnabas also was carried away with their dissimulation.
14 But when I saw that they walked not uprightly according to the truth of the gospel, I said unto Peter before them all, If thou, being a Jew, livest after the manner of Gentiles, and not as do the Jews, why compellest thou the Gentiles to live as do the Jews?
This "Judaizing spirit was everywhere" in those days at the birth of the church of Jesus Christ, but over time, the Judaizing spirit settled back down into, well, Judaism, and into, well, the church of Jesus Christ, and "both sides are not speaking to each other much right now".
And as another poster pointed out, David also did not want to "touch the Lord's anointed" even though he was King Saul who was trying to kill David.
There is not a Christian on earth who has 100% of his or her doctrine correct, not even the very seasoned and well-studied Christians have 100% correct; as Thunderz7 said, "What make a mistake and immediately become a false prophet?"
All of us earthly sinners make mistakes in understanding Biblical doctrines; because only the LORD God of Israel and the Son Yahshua of Israel and the Holy Spirit of Israel understand the Bible 100% because THEY wrote it.
I think if a human believer, who formerly was a considerable sinner, can understand a lot of parts of the Bible, that Christian person has done a lot of studying of the Bible.
Because the Bible is a long book and strong book and complex and deep book, whose wisdom is slowly unpeeled like an onion, by reading and rereading the Bible.
Basically, then, I consider you all tattle-tales and busybodies, in other words. ![[Big Grin]](biggrin.gif)
2 Thessalonians 3:11
For we hear that there are some which walk among you disorderly, working not at all, but are busybodies.
1 Timothy 5:13
And withal they learn to be idle, wandering about from house to house; and not only idle, but tattlers also and busybodies, speaking things which they ought not.
God bless, BORN AGAIN
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yahsway
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Even the angels(demons) believe on Him who was sent by the Father. We do well if we believe, but there is more to ones salvation than just believing.
Many will say to Him Lord, look what we did in Your name, so obviously they believed. But He tells them to depart you workers of "iniquity" which means workers of lawlessness.
The passage about Noah shows that only a remnant were saved.
The gospel of OSAS is an example of false teaching. I know many people who believe in this and bring it up everytime they are confronted by a brother or sister about blatent sinful acts they indulge in. One sister told me it did not matter what she did now that Gods blood covered her, she would still be forgiven. Yes, if she repents, but can we as true believers just trample on such an awesome Grace and think we are in right standing with the Father? Yes, they might have the "basics" of the gospel message, but the fruit of the Spirit is lacking in their life. It makes me wonder if they have the Holy Spirit at all, because we all know the scriptures say the Holy Spirit can be grieved and the Holy Spirit does convict us of sins, so how anyone can "believe" they are saved by simply believing in the gospel message and continue in their worldly behavior and lifestyle is beyond me. But then again, I guess it would go back to what they are taught.
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wparr
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2 Peter 2:1-3
(1) But false prophets also arose among the people, just as there will also be false teachers among you, who will secretly introduce destructive heresies, even denying the Master who bought them, bringing swift destruction upon themselves.
(2) Many will follow their sensuality, and because of them the way of the truth will be maligned;
(3) and in their greed they will exploit you with false words; their judgment from long ago is not idle, and their destruction is not asleep.
Matthew 7:13-19
(13) "Enter through the narrow gate; for the gate is wide and the way is broad that leads to destruction, and there are many who enter through it.
(14) "For the gate is small and the way is narrow that leads to life, and there are few who find it.
(15) "Beware of the false prophets, who come to you in sheep's clothing, but inwardly are ravenous wolves.
(16) "You will know them by their fruits. Grapes are not gathered from thorn bushes nor figs from thistles, are they?
(17) "So every good tree bears good fruit, but the bad tree bears bad fruit.
(18) "A good tree cannot produce bad fruit, nor can a bad tree produce good fruit.
(19) "Every tree that does not bear good fruit is cut down and thrown into the fire.
IT DOES NOT MATTER WHAT YOU OR I THINK
WHAT DOES GOD'S WORD SAY HERE
Huh BA????
Why are you so fighting against God's Word in this area?????
Posts: 1203 | From: Eagle Nest, NM | Registered: Jan 2003
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BORN AGAIN
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wparr writes quote:
This has nothing to do with Noah
"As in the days of Noah, so also shall it be in the days of the Son of man".
Don't get me wrong, there IS a fundamental statement of faith, as David brought up, which I think is required to be saved.
But that statement of faith only has a few necessary and required sentences.
Beyond that statement of faith, however, where will your "false teachers" be, wparr?
Let's say that your so-called "false teachers" believe in the statement of faith, but disagree about "other" Biblical stuff, where will these "false teachers" be, wparr?
In the ark of Jesus, or drowning outside the ark of Jesus?
What do the following scriptures mean to you, wparr?
1 Corinthians 3
11 For other foundation can no man lay than that is laid, which is Jesus Christ. (I agree with this statement, wparr}
12 Now if any man builds upon this foundation gold, silver, precious stones, wood, hay, stubble;
13 Every man's work shall be made manifest: for the day shall declare it, because it shall be revealed by fire; and the fire shall try every man's work of what sort it is.
15If any man's work shall be burned, he shall suffer loss: but he himself shall be saved; yet so as by fire.
In the context of your "false teachers", what do these verses mean to you, wparr?
Will they be saved in the ark of Jesus, or will they be drowning outside the ark of Jesus?
God bless, BORN AGAIN
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wparr
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This has nothing to do with Noah
Posts: 1203 | From: Eagle Nest, NM | Registered: Jan 2003
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BORN AGAIN
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Matthew 24:37-39 (KJV)
37 But as the days of Noah were, so shall also the coming of the Son of man be.
38 For as in the days that were before the flood they were eating and drinking, marrying and giving in marriage, until the day that Noah entered into the ark,
39 And knew not until the flood came and took them all away; so shall also the coming of the Son of man be.
The people who knew not and were taken away refers, as in the days of Noah, to the unbelievers.
The believers were all in the ark, and that's where all the believers will be this time too, in the ark of Jesus, caught up to meet Him in the air at His Second Coming.
And the people whom you and others like you claim to be "false teachers" will be in the ark of Jesus too, and some of them will be standing right next to you in the ark of Jesus, wparr! (Scary, huh... ![[happyhappy]](graemlins/happyhappy.gif) )
God bless, BORN AGAIN
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wparr
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Apply that to the warnings about false teachers that YOU keep disputing against.
Posts: 1203 | From: Eagle Nest, NM | Registered: Jan 2003
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BORN AGAIN
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wparr writes quote:
God is telling us that false prophets will be misleading the people by saying
Everything is OK
Nothing bad will happen {bold emphasis by BORN AGAIN}
wparr, who in the church is saying Everything is OK and Nothing bad will happen?
I have been in the church for 25 years, and I have never heard anything even close to that.
In every church I've ever been in, each congregant has, first of all, their own Bible and secondly, all the preachers/teachers I've ever heard teach that eventually Jesus will take over the earth and rule the nations from Jerusalem with a rod of iron and that everyone will have to "bow the knee", or else.
I don't know what kind of church you go to, brother.
God bless, BORN AGAIN
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wparr
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Matthew 7:15-20
(15) "Beware of the false prophets, who come to you in sheep's clothing, but inwardly are ravenous wolves.
(16) "You will know them by their fruits. Grapes are not gathered from thorn bushes nor figs from thistles, are they?
(17) "So every good tree bears good fruit, but the bad tree bears bad fruit.
(18) "A good tree cannot produce bad fruit, nor can a bad tree produce good fruit.
(19) "Every tree that does not bear good fruit is cut down and thrown into the fire.
(20) "So then, you will know them by their fruits.
Jesus is warning us to beware WE WILL have false prophets.
Let's look at some of what God says about false prophets in the OT.
Jeremiah 23:1-34
(1) "Woe to the shepherds who are destroying and scattering the sheep of My pasture!" declares the LORD.
(2) Therefore thus says the LORD God of Israel concerning the shepherds who are tending My people: "You have scattered My flock and driven them away, and have not attended to them; behold, I am about to attend to you for the evil of your deeds," declares the LORD.
(3) "Then I Myself will gather the remnant of My flock out of all the countries where I have driven them and bring them back to their pasture, and they will be fruitful and multiply.
(4) "I will also raise up shepherds over them and they will tend them; and they will not be afraid any longer, nor be terrified, nor will any be missing," declares the LORD.
(5) "Behold, the days are coming," declares the LORD, "When I will raise up for David a righteous Branch; And He will reign as king and act wisely And do justice and righteousness in the land.
(6) "In His days Judah will be saved, And Israel will dwell securely; And this is His name by which He will be called, 'The LORD our righteousness.'
(7) "Therefore behold, the days are coming," declares the LORD, "when they will no longer say, 'As the LORD lives, who brought up the sons of Israel from the land of Egypt,'
(8) but, 'As the LORD lives, who brought up and led back the descendants of the household of Israel from the north land and from all the countries where I had driven them.' Then they will live on their own soil."
(9) As for the prophets: My heart is broken within me, All my bones tremble; I have become like a drunken man, Even like a man overcome with wine, Because of the LORD And because of His holy words.
(10) For the land is full of adulterers; For the land mourns because of the curse. The pastures of the wilderness have dried up. Their course also is evil And their might is not right.
(11) "For both prophet and priest are polluted; Even in My house I have found their wickedness," declares the LORD.
(12) "Therefore their way will be like slippery paths to them, They will be driven away into the gloom and fall down in it; For I will bring calamity upon them, The year of their punishment," declares the LORD.
(13) "Moreover, among the prophets of Samaria I saw an offensive thing: They prophesied by Baal and led My people Israel astray.
(14) "Also among the prophets of Jerusalem I have seen a horrible thing: The committing of adultery and walking in falsehood; And they strengthen the hands of evildoers, So that no one has turned back from his wickedness. All of them have become to Me like Sodom, And her inhabitants like Gomorrah.
(15) "Therefore thus says the LORD of hosts concerning the prophets, 'Behold, I am going to feed them wormwood And make them drink poisonous water, For from the prophets of Jerusalem Pollution has gone forth into all the land.'"
(16) Thus says the LORD of hosts, "Do not listen to the words of the prophets who are prophesying to you. They are leading you into futility; They speak a vision of their own imagination, Not from the mouth of the LORD.
(17) "They keep saying to those who despise Me, 'The LORD has said, "You will have peace"'; And as for everyone who walks in the stubbornness of his own heart, They say, 'Calamity will not come upon you.'
(18) "But who has stood in the council of the LORD, That he should see and hear His word? Who has given heed to His word and listened?
(19) "Behold, the storm of the LORD has gone forth in wrath, Even a whirling tempest; It will swirl down on the head of the wicked.
(20) "The anger of the LORD will not turn back Until He has performed and carried out the purposes of His heart; In the last days you will clearly understand it.
(21) "I did not send these prophets, But they ran. I did not speak to them, But they prophesied.
(22) "But if they had stood in My council, Then they would have announced My words to My people, And would have turned them back from their evil way And from the evil of their deeds.
(23) "Am I a God who is near," declares the LORD, "And not a God far off?
(24) "Can a man hide himself in hiding places So I do not see him?" declares the LORD. "Do I not fill the heavens and the earth?" declares the LORD.
(25) "I have heard what the prophets have said who prophesy falsely in My name, saying, 'I had a dream, I had a dream!'
(26) "How long? Is there anything in the hearts of the prophets who prophesy falsehood, even these prophets of the deception of their own heart,
(27) who intend to make My people forget My name by their dreams which they relate to one another, just as their fathers forgot My name because of Baal?
(28) "The prophet who has a dream may relate his dream, but let him who has My word speak My word in truth. What does straw have in common with grain?" declares the LORD.
(29) "Is not My word like fire?" declares the LORD, "and like a hammer which shatters a rock?
(30) "Therefore behold, I am against the prophets," declares the LORD, "who steal My words from each other.
(31) "Behold, I am against the prophets," declares the LORD, "who use their tongues and declare, 'The Lord declares.'
(32) "Behold, I am against those who have prophesied false dreams," declares the LORD, "and related them and led My people astray by their falsehoods and reckless boasting; yet I did not send them or command them, nor do they furnish this people the slightest benefit," declares the LORD.
(33) "Now when this people or the prophet or a priest asks you saying, 'What is the oracle of the LORD?' then you shall say to them, 'What oracle?' The LORD declares, 'I will abandon you.'
(34) "Then as for the prophet or the priest or the people who say, 'The oracle of the LORD,' I will bring punishment upon that man and his household.
Ezekiel 13:1-23
(1) Then the word of the LORD came to me saying,
(2) "Son of man, prophesy against the prophets of Israel who prophesy, and say to those who prophesy from their own inspiration, 'Listen to the word of the LORD!
(3) 'Thus says the Lord GOD, "Woe to the foolish prophets who are following their own spirit and have seen nothing.
(4) "O Israel, your prophets have been like foxes among ruins.
(5) "You have not gone up into the breaches, nor did you build the wall around the house of Israel to stand in the battle on the day of the LORD.
(6) "They see falsehood and lying divination who are saying, 'The LORD declares,' when the LORD has not sent them; yet they hope for the fulfillment of their word.
(7) "Did you not see a false vision and speak a lying divination when you said, 'The LORD declares,' but it is not I who have spoken?"'"
(8) Therefore, thus says the Lord GOD, "Because you have spoken falsehood and seen a lie, therefore behold, I am against you," declares the Lord GOD.
(9) "So My hand will be against the prophets who see false visions and utter lying divinations. They will have no place in the council of My people, nor will they be written down in the register of the house of Israel, nor will they enter the land of Israel, that you may know that I am the Lord GOD.
(10) "It is definitely because they have misled My people by saying, 'Peace!' when there is no peace. And when anyone builds a wall, behold, they plaster it over with whitewash;
(11) so tell those who plaster it over with whitewash, that it will fall. A flooding rain will come, and you, O hailstones, will fall; and a violent wind will break out.
(12) "Behold, when the wall has fallen, will you not be asked, 'Where is the plaster with which you plastered it?'"
(13) Therefore, thus says the Lord GOD, "I will make a violent wind break out in My wrath. There will also be in My anger a flooding rain and hailstones to consume it in wrath.
(14) "So I will tear down the wall which you plastered over with whitewash and bring it down to the ground, so that its foundation is laid bare; and when it falls, you will be consumed in its midst. And you will know that I am the LORD.
(15) "Thus I will spend My wrath on the wall and on those who have plastered it over with whitewash; and I will say to you, 'The wall is gone and its plasterers are gone,
(16) along with the prophets of Israel who prophesy to Jerusalem, and who see visions of peace for her when there is no peace,' declares the Lord GOD.
(17) "Now you, son of man, set your face against the daughters of your people who are prophesying from their own inspiration. Prophesy against them
(18) and say, 'Thus says the Lord GOD, "Woe to the women who sew magic bands on all wrists and make veils for the heads of persons of every stature to hunt down lives! Will you hunt down the lives of My people, but preserve the lives of others for yourselves?
(19) "For handfuls of barley and fragments of bread, you have profaned Me to My people to put to death some who should not die and to keep others alive who should not live, by your lying to My people who listen to lies."'"
(20) Therefore, thus says the Lord GOD, "Behold, I am against your magic bands by which you hunt lives there as birds and I will tear them from your arms; and I will let them go, even those lives whom you hunt as birds.
(21) "I will also tear off your veils and deliver My people from your hands, and they will no longer be in your hands to be hunted; and you will know that I am the LORD.
(22) "Because you disheartened the righteous with falsehood when I did not cause him grief, but have encouraged the wicked not to turn from his wicked way and preserve his life,
(23) therefore, you women will no longer see false visions or practice divination, and I will deliver My people out of your hand. Thus you will know that I am the LORD."
God is telling us that false prophets will be misleading the people by saying
Everything is OK
Nothing bad will happen
There are some doing that here, trying to take the warnings God gives us about false teachers, and say it doesn't apply to The Church or Christians.
This sounds very very close to what the OT false prophets were doing.
SCARY SCARY SCARY
I say to them
REPENT
Posts: 1203 | From: Eagle Nest, NM | Registered: Jan 2003
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wparr
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BA you are just PLAIN WRONG
God put in the Bible, warnings about false teachers, and deadly doctrines FOR US TODAY, not just for when the Epistles were written.
ANY Pastor or theologina worth anything, will tell you that the Bible IS CLEAR that false teachers will be on the rise WITH IN The Church as we get closer and closer to the end times.
You just won't face Biblical REALITY and TRUTH.
Posts: 1203 | From: Eagle Nest, NM | Registered: Jan 2003
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BORN AGAIN
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TEXASGRANDMA writes to BORN AGAIN quote:
BA
This morning, when I was lying in bed, I began to think of my family. My dad was the kind of man that most Preachers would love in their Church.
My dad was one of those Jacks Of All Trades. He could install a toilet, put in wiring for 220,
Fix a Church bus among many other things. What my dad could not do is read very well. He had to depend on Preachers to teach him God's Word. My sister has a son that is a very loving Christian man. He has worked a job since his freshmen year and has always paid his tithes. But, because of a mistake the doctor made when he was being born, he has trouble reading. He too must depend on what the Preacher says. I am sure that these are not the only two in America that cannot study the Bible for themselves. I would guess that in every Church there are good people who cannot read very well. When we sit back and say if a person cannot learn the Bible for themselves, then they deserve to be misled, then we are committing a sin. You could be talking every Sunday to a person who does not have the ability to read very well. I can assure you that these dear ones are not going to be telling everyone about their problem. It is embarrassing for them.
Whether a person can read well or not, everyone needs to be warned of false preachers. To sit silently while Christians (our brothers and sisters in Christ) are led astray is a sin against them and a sin against God.
Okay, point well taken. In more modern times, a person who cannot read can listen to the Bible on audio tape. I have the complete Bible on tape.
Or someone who can read could read the Bible to a person who cannot read.
And lastly, all someone REALLY needs to know to be saved is THE BASICS, Jesus is the Son of God whom God raised from the dead and who died for our sins. End of gospel. The rest is gravy.
And since practically EVERY church teaches THE BASICS, as long as s/he continues to believe THE BASICS, nothing consequential is going to happen anyway.
God bless, BORN AGAIN
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BORN AGAIN
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SoftTouch writes to BORN AGAIN quote:
WOW!!! I'm guess you have No experience with infants? Infants must rely on their parents for their nourishment - they lack the skill and dexterity to feed themselves until they mature a little more, and even then it's really messy!
SoftTouch, we are dealing with an analogy when we call a "new" Christian a "baby" Christian. We are of course NOT really talking about "messy eating" but of adults eating "something new" and our new parents in this case are in the Bible. The "new" or "baby" Christian starts to "read the Bible" which is like "new food". Know what I mean sister?
God bless, BORN AGAIN
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HisGrace
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quote:
Originally posted by SoftTouch:
quote:
Originally posted by Aaron:
Certainly and elder has exercised his discernment more so than a babe.
Agreed ![[Smile]](smile.gif) I don't write the Articles... These articles are written by Pastors/Elders ![[hug]](graemlins/hug.gif)
Notice that the article says 'us' and 'we', implying that these tools are for one and all.
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TEXASGRANDMA
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Have a great and safe trip and God bless you,
betty
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Luk 21:28 And when these things begin to come to pass, then look up, and lift up your heads; for your redemption draweth nigh.
http://www.indieheaven.com/artists/mm (son-in-law)http://www.myspace.com/mireles
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SoftTouch
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Amen Sister Betty. I hadn't even thought about that aspect of it. Excellent point!
God Bless! I'll be gone till Tuesday
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Psalm 119:104Through thy precepts I get understanding: therefore I hate every false way. 105Thy word is a lamp unto my feet, and a light unto my path.
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TEXASGRANDMA
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BA
This morning, when I was lying in bed, I began to think of my family. My dad was the kind of man that most Preachers would love in their Church.
My dad was one of those Jacks Of All Trades. He could install a toilet, put in wiring for 220,
Fix a Church bus among many other things. What my dad could not do is read very well. He had to depend on Preachers to teach him God's Word. My sister has a son that is a very loving Christian man. He has worked a job since his freshmen year and has always paid his tithes. But, because of a mistake the doctor made when he was being born, he has trouble reading. He too must depend on what the Preacher says. I am sure that these are not the only two in America that cannot study the Bible for themselves. I would guess that in every Church there are good people who cannot read very well. When we sit back and say if a person cannot learn the Bible for themselves, then they deserve to be misled, then we are committing a sin. You could be talking every Sunday to a person who does not have the ability to read very well. I can assure you that these dear ones are not going to be telling everyone about their problem. It is embarrassing for them.
Whether a person can read well or not, everyone needs to be warned of false preachers. To sit silently while Christians (our brothers and sisters in Christ) are led astray is a sin against them and a sin against God.
My dad has been dead three years, but his Pastor still misses all the work dad could do. Of course we miss him because we love him.
betty
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Luk 21:28 And when these things begin to come to pass, then look up, and lift up your heads; for your redemption draweth nigh.
http://www.indieheaven.com/artists/mm (son-in-law)http://www.myspace.com/mireles
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SoftTouch
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quote:
Originally posted by Aaron:
Certainly and elder has exercised his discernment more so than a babe.
Agreed I don't write the Articles... These articles are written by Pastors/Elders
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Psalm 119:104Through thy precepts I get understanding: therefore I hate every false way. 105Thy word is a lamp unto my feet, and a light unto my path.
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HisGrace
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quote:
Originally posted by Aaron:
My dear SoftTouch and friends,
I am studying something: Are commands to rebuke and correct given mostly to elders/fellow apostles and are commands to avoid/mark given to the church?
It would seem that the former causes one to assume a great responsibility and the latter is a tool for protecting the "young in Christ". Certainly and elder has exercised his discernment more so than a babe.Bless you,Aaron
Amen Aaron!! We have to be S O careful when we take the role of discernment upon ourselves.
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Aaron
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My dear SoftTouch and friends,
I am studying something: Are commands to rebuke and correct given mostly to elders/fellow apostles and are commands to avoid/mark given to the church?
It would seem that the former causes one to assume a great responsibility and the latter is a tool for protecting the "young in Christ". Certainly and elder has exercised his discernment more so than a babe.
Bless you,
Aaron
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SoftTouch
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quote:
Originally posted by BORN AGAIN:
TEXASGRANDMA writes quote:
Christians hear false preaching all the time and stay silent while, baby Christians are led astray.
If "baby" Christians were not so lazy and did their homework by reading the Bible for themselves, they wouldn't be led astray. They deserve what they get for being spiritually lazy.
God bless, BORN AGAIN
WOW!!! I'm guess you have No experience with infants? Infants must rely on their parents for their nurishment - they lack the skill and dexterity to feed themselves until they mature a little more, and even then it's really messy!
You do realize that Betty's talking about NEW Christians who have not had the time to Study and don't KNOW the Bible yet (which is something that takes years and is an ongoing thing). That's what she means by Baby Christians, and I agree with her completely.
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Psalm 119:104Through thy precepts I get understanding: therefore I hate every false way. 105Thy word is a lamp unto my feet, and a light unto my path.
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TEXASGRANDMA
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I think it is unChristian to not feel compassion for baby Christians. We were once Baby Christians and could have been easily led astray, ourselves. Not only that, but things in our lives can lead to spiritual sets backs in even "adult" Christians. In my 53 years of life I have had many trials come my way and there were times, that I would have been easily led astray, but my mom who is a strong Christian was a very good influence on me.
betty
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Luk 21:28 And when these things begin to come to pass, then look up, and lift up your heads; for your redemption draweth nigh.
http://www.indieheaven.com/artists/mm (son-in-law)http://www.myspace.com/mireles
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BORN AGAIN
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TEXASGRANDMA writes quote:
Christians hear false preaching all the time and stay silent while, baby Christians are led astray.
If "baby" Christians were not so lazy and did their homework by reading the Bible for themselves, they wouldn't be led astray. They deserve what they get for being spiritually lazy.
God bless, BORN AGAIN
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TEXASGRANDMA
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I agree. If we do not speak the truth then we are by being silent agreeing with them. No one would expect a person who wittness someone tampering with food in a food bar at a resturant to stay silent, yet Christians hear false preaching all the time and stay silent while, baby Christians are led astray.
The Bible says take no thought of what the enemy can destroy, except for the soul. Yet too many Christians place value on the body and none on the souls of others.
betty
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Luk 21:28 And when these things begin to come to pass, then look up, and lift up your heads; for your redemption draweth nigh.
http://www.indieheaven.com/artists/mm (son-in-law)http://www.myspace.com/mireles
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SoftTouch
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The Bible Admonishes Us To Expose Error.
We are to TRY them. “Beloved, believe not every spirit, but try the spirits, whether they be of God; because many false prophets are gone out into the world” (1 John 4:1). All doctrine and teachers are to be tried according to the Word of God. “To the law and to the testimony: if they speak not according to this word, it is because there is no light in them” (Isa.8:20). Every message, messenger, and method is to be judged according to the Word of God. The church at Ephesus was commended because they had “tried them which say they are apostles, and are not, and hast found them liars” (Rev.2:14,15). It is never right to tolerate false teachers, but they are to be tried by the Word of God, and exposed. Of course those who want to disobey the Word of God will seek by every means to avoid this teaching.
We are to MARK them and AVOID them.
“Now I beseech you, brethren, mark them which cause divisions and offences contrary to the doctrine which ye have learned; and avoid them” (Rom.16:17). Those whose conduct and teaching contradicts the Word of God are to be marked and to be avoided. This requires discernment and judgement in the light of the Bible. There are those who will resist any effort to obey this Scripture. They cannot be marked and avoided, unless they are judged according to the Word of God.
We are to rebuke them.
“Wherefore rebuke them sharply, that they may be sound in the faith” (Titus 1:13). This was written to Titus, because there were those going from house to house and subverting whole houses with false doctrine (v.10-16). Many popular teachers are subverting whole houses with their false doctrine today. Are we to sit silently by, while they do this, without rebuking and admonishing people to avoid their teaching? No, the faithful servant of the Lord is to be “Holding fast the faithful word as he hath been taught, that he may be able by sound doctrine both to exhort and convince the gainsayers” (Titus 1:9).
We are to have NO FELLOWSHIP with them.
“And have no fellowship with the unfruitful works of darkness, but rather reprove them” (Eph.5:11). Reprove means to censure, condemn, find fault, rebuke, and to refute. How can we obey this Scripture unless we try them by the Word of God?
We are to WITHDRAW from them. “Now we command you, brethren, in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ, that ye withdraw yourselves from every brother that walketh disorderly, and not after the tradition which ye received of us” (II Thess.3:6). We are to withdraw from those whose doctrine and conduct does not conform to the Word of God. The context clearly shows that obedience to sound doctrine is what Paul has in mind, for he says, “if any man obey not our word by this epistle, note that man and have no company with him, that he may be ashamed. Yet, count him not as an enemy but admonish him as a brother. (II Thess.3:4-15). Paul admonished Timothy to “withdraw thyself” from those who “consent not to wholesome words ... and to the doctrine which is according to godliness” (II Timothy 4:2). This is usually an unpopular and thankless task but it is the duty of the God-called man.
We are NOT to RECEIVE them into our house.
“If there come any unto you, and bring not this doctrine, receive him not into your house, neither bid him God speed: For he that biddeth him God speed is partaker of his evil deeds” (II John 10,11). There is no doubt about who John is speaking about, it is “Whosoever transgresseth, and abideth not in the doctrine of Christ...” (v.9). By radio, TV, and literature, false prophets are brought into the homes of many Christians today. Brethren, this ought not to be!
We are to REJECT HERETICS.
“A man that is an heretic after the first and second admonition reject” (Titus 3:10) We are to reject those why deny redemption by the blood of Christ. (The “Jesus Died Spiritually” teaching does just this… Denies that it was the Blood of Christ that redeems us.) There are many who deny this or some other doctrine of the Word of God. `If they will not respond to being admonished, then they are to be rejected.
We are to look out for those who preach another gospel. Paul warned about those who preached “another Jesus....another spirit ... or another gospel” (II Cor.11:4). How can we know them unless we judge their Jesus, their spirit, and their gospel by the Word of God? Paul called such preachers “false apostles, deceitful workers, transforming themselves into the apostles of Christ” (II Cor. 11:13). `He explains in v.14-15 that these preachers are the ministers of Satan. The God-called man must be just as faithful today in exposing the ministers of Satan.
Paul warned the Galatians about those who “pervert the gospel of Christ.” He also said, “If any man preach any other gospel unto you than that ye have received, let him be accursed.” (See Gal. 1:6-9). Multitudes today are preaching a perverted gospel. Those who teach salvation by baptism, or by works, are teaching a perverted gospel. Many today are preaching a perverted Gospel and yet, we are told that we are supposed to cooperate with them in evangelism and Christian work, according to many today. If we fail to expose these false prophets, then we have betrayed Christ and His gospel.
We are to SEPARATE from them. “Wherefore come out from among them, and be ye separate, saith the Lord, and touch not the unclean thing; and I will receive you” (II Cor.6:17). This makes it plain. God’s people are to come out of apostasy and religious error.
It Is Right To Expose False Teachers and Name Names.
False teachers are free to spread their poisonous doctrines today because there is a conspiracy of silence among many bible believers. Wolves in sheep’s clothing are thus enabled to ravage the flock, thereby destroying many.
John the Baptist called the Pharisees and Saducees (the religious leaders of his day) “a generation of vipers” (snakes) (Matt.3:7). Today, he would be accused of being unloving, unkind, and unchristian.
Jesus said to the religious Pharisees, “O generation of vipers, how can ye, being evil, speak good things? For out of the abundance of the heart the mouth speaketh” (Matt.12:34). To many evangelicals and some fundamentalists, this would be unacceptable language today, but it is biblical language and it came from the mouth of the Son of God.
Standing face to face with these false teachers, Jesus Christ the Son of God, called them “hypocrites,” “blind guides,” “blind,” “whited sepulchres,” “serpents,” and “ye generation of vipers” (Matthew 23:23-34). Yet, we are told today that we are to fellowship with men whose doctrines are just as unscriptural as those of the Pharisees. Some who say they are Bible believing Christians insist on working assorted heretics. Yet, according to many, we are not supposed to rebuke them for their compromise.
Near the beginning of His ministry, “Jesus went up to Jerusalem, And found in the temple those that sold oxen and sheep and doves, and the changers of money sitting: And when he had made a scourge of small cords, he drove them all out of the temple, and the sheep, and the oxen; and poured out the changers’ money, and overthrew the tables; And said unto them that sold doves, Take these things hence; make not my Father’s house an house of merchandise” (John 2:13-16). Our Saviour is presented today as one who was meek, lowly, kind,` and loving, even to false teachers, but this is entirely false. When dealing with false teachers and prophets, His words were sharp and His actions plain.
Christ found it necessary to cleanse the temple. The exposure of false doctrines and practices is a never ending job. At that time He said, “Is it not written, My house shall be called of all nations the house of prayer? But ye have made it a den of thieves” (Mark 11:17). Is it any different today? The thieves come into the house of God, and rob God’s people of the Bible and peddle their perverted Bibles instead. At the same time this den of thieves rob the people of the doctrine of separation and the doctrine of sanctification. Then you can hardly tell God’s people from the people of the world. In all honesty, should not these thieves (false teachers) be exposed?
In our day these false teachers have come into the churches with their books, literature, movies, psychology, seminars, and have turned the Father’s house into a den of thieves.
Many mistakenly believe that it is wrong to expose error and to name the guilty teachers; but they are wrong according to the Bible.
Paul named Peter publicly. Peter was guilty of unscriptural practice. ‘“But when Peter was come to Antioch, I withstood him to the face, because he was to be blamed...But when I saw that they walked not uprightly according to the truth of the gospel, I said unto Peter before them all, If thou, being a Jew, livest after the manner of the Gentiles, and not as do the Jews, why compellest thou the Gentiles to live as do the Jews?” (Gal.2:11-14). The whole issue revolved around salvation by the law or by grace. When the integrity and purity of the gospel is at stake, then we have no choice when it comes to the matter of exposing error and naming names.
Paul named Demas for loving the world. “For Demas hath forsaken me, having loved this present world” (II Tim. 4:10). Those who forsake the cause of Christ for worldly living and pleasure should be named and exposed.
Paul named Hymenaeus and Alexander. Paul told Timothy to “war a good warfare; Holding faith, and a good conscience; which some have put away concerning faith have made shipwreck: Of whom is Hymenaeus and Alexander; whom I have delivered unto Satan, that they may learn not to blaspheme” (I Tim.1:18-20). God’s true servants should war a good warfare, and name those who have departed from the faith that was once delivered to the saints. Paul is not here discussing the faith of salvation but the faith was a system of doctrine. These men had made shipwreck of it and Paul exposed them and called their names.
Paul named Hymenaeus and Philetus. He told Timothy to “study” that he might be able to “rightly” divide “the word of truth. But shun profane and vain babblings: for they will increase unto more ungodliness. And their word will eat as doth as canker: of whom is Hymenaeus and Philetus; who concerning the truth have erred, saying that the resurrection is past already; and overthrow the faith of some” (II Tim.2:15-18). False doctrine overthrows the faith of some, so those who are proclaiming it must be exposed.
Paul named Alexander the coppersmith. “Alexander the coppersmith did me much evil: the Lord reward him according to his works: Of whom be thou ware also; for he hath greatly withstood our words” (II Tim.4:14-15). It is clear that this is not a personality problem, but a doctrinal problem. Alexander had withstood the words and doctrine of Paul. He was an enemy to the truth. Godly pastors face the same problem every day. They stand and proclaim the truth, then their members go home and hear this truth disputed by radio and TV preachers. Often times these false prophets are sending their publications into the homes of members of true churches. Then the man of God is supposed to keep his mouth shut, according to many. Only a coward will be silent when the truth of the Bible is under attack.
John named Diotrephes. “I wrote unto the church; but Diotrephes, who loveth to have the pre-eminence among them, receiveth us not” (III John 9). He related how this man had prated again him “with malicious words” (v10). He further said, “Beloved, follow not that which is evil, but that which is good. He that doeth good is of God, but he that doeth evil hath not seen God” (v.11). It is not wrong to name those whose doctrine and practice is contrary to the Word of God.
In fact, the whole Bible abounds in examples of false prophets being named and exposed. All this modern day talk about love, used as an excuse for not exposing error, is not really biblical love but is really sloppy agape.
Moses called the name of Balaam. (See Num.22-25). Peter exposed “the way of Balaam...who loved the wages of unrighteousness” (II Pet.2:15). Balaam was a prophet that was in the work for money, just like some of the TV false prophets today. They beg for money and live like kings, while multitudes of innocent people send them hard earned money. They are always building colleges, hospitals, TV network satellites, and amusement parks that have a water slide for Jesus. And then we are supposed to keep our mouth shut about these religious charlatans. How can we be silent and be true to God?
Jude exposed “the error Balaam” (Jude 11). John exposed “the doctrine of Balaam, who taught Balac to cast a stumbling block before the children of Israel, to eat things sacrificed unto idols, and to commit fornication.” (Rev.2:14). This gets right to the heart of the matter, concerning the doctrine of separation. Balaam never did curse Israel even though he wanted the wages that he was offered to do so. The men of Israel committed “whoredom with the daughters of Moab ...and bowed down to their gods” (Num.25:1,2). Why did they do this? Because Balaam taught Balac how to break down the barrier of separation between the Moabites and the Israelites. We know this to be so because it is plainly stated in Rev.2:14 and Num.31:16. This sin resulted in 24,000 men of Israel dying under the judgement of God.
False teachers are breaking down the barrier of separation between God’s people and false religion. There is too little preaching and teaching on the doctrine of separation. Balaam breached the doctrine of personal separation by causing the men of Israel to commit fornication with the Moabite women. “He breached the doctrine of ecclesiastical separation by causing the men of Israel to bow down to Baal. This bought a curse upon Israel. Until we get back to teaching the truth about personal and ecclesiastical separation, we can expect the continued widespread havoc that we have today.
It seems to be believed by many that some people are too high and mighty to be named or exposed. Men in high places, pastors of large churches, and those with great radio or TV audiences, are supposedly above criticism. Whatever they may do or say, no matter how contrary to the Bible it may be, is supposedly all right. Nothing could be further from the truth.
Nathan identified the man. There was a man in a very high place who was a secret adulterer. Surely this man who held the highest office in the land could not be rebuked by a lowly unpopular prophet. Nathan went right into the presence of David, revealed the sin in a parable form, and then told the enraged David, “Thou art the man” (II Sam.12:7).
Yes, it is right to expose error and to name those who are in error.
It is right to “earnestly contend for the faith which was once delivered unto the saints” (Jude 3). It was once delivered and it has never been recalled for revision. We had better beware of “false teachers ... who privily shall bring in damnable heresies” (II Pet.2:1). Faithful messengers will warn the sheep of these heretics, and identify them by name. It is not enough to broadly hint of their identity, for the young lambs will not understand and will be destroyed by the wolves.
(This was taken from an article written by another person, but I did some re-arranging and editing.)
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Psalm 119:104Through thy precepts I get understanding: therefore I hate every false way. 105Thy word is a lamp unto my feet, and a light unto my path.
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