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Topic: Why is Obama a justification to vote for McCain?
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BrianGrass1234
Advanced Member
Member # 5845
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posted
And I'm not sure were the discussion of police came from, but they are the gun the state uses to enforce it's will. But I do hold police responsible for their actions. A law does not make something right or something wrong. A law is nothing more than words on paper written by man. So just because it is a law, it does not justify the actions of police. If a police man is using force to defend against aggression, then his actions are justified. If the police man is using force aggressively, even if dictated by law, he is in the wrong. The biggest issue with the police is how the change in this nation from the role of government being a protector against aggression to the role of our superiors who dictate how we live our lives, has change the mentality of our police. Go to any police message board online and go through the threads to see how they talk amongst themselves. They believe they are our betters and they enjoy the busting down of doors, chasing down "criminals" and asserting their authority over us. They have change from a "protect and serve" to seeing themselves as our superiors and us "civilians" as a lower class.
Posts: 203 | From: Weed, CA | Registered: Jun 2006
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BrianGrass1234
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Member # 5845
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posted
I just see myself responsible for my vote. If I vote for McCain, knowing what force he will threaten my neighbor with, I feel that I am threatening my neighbor. If my neighbor votes for Obama, and that institutionalizes threats of force against me, I do not feel it is right to respond to his threat with a threat of my own. Since most vote out of ignorance, they are not actively trying to harm me or anyone else. But I do understand the violence of the state and how these politicians are wanting to institutionalize aggression against my neighbors, so I will not take part in that. I am not responsible for the actions of others, only my own. I will not force people into debt. I will not institutionalize harm to be done to others, when they have not actively harmed or threatened to harm anyone to begin with. I will not threaten people. And I will not give the state anymore foot holds to institute more aggression in the future.
Posts: 203 | From: Weed, CA | Registered: Jun 2006
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Michael Harrison
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Member # 6801
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posted
Yes, and regardless, there are plenty enough police who will, thinking themselves the righteousness of humanity, perform some of the most ungodly acts possible. I have an article where one who was a chief, planted evidence on someone and got caught! People have gone to prison and lost years of their life, if not their very life, because of the poor attitude of law enforcement. (I'm sorry their job is so difficult. I wouldn't want it.) And then there are the scores of blacks who were persecuted, whom my heart goes out to. There have been the worst incidents in the history of this country towards people who were minding their own business, who ended up dead or in jail, some of which were no doubt precious people.
Now I have a bone to pick with them too. I severely pi--ed off a young, snotty one back in 2000, and since then I have been persecuted. There can be no doubt as to the source. However it came about, it is clearly abuse of power, and of the office which they hold, because they vilify me among themselves, and have misrepresented me to some people out there. My life has severely changed because of this. Unfortunately I cannot go to them and ask why they know my name, when they shouldn't have any inkling whatsoever of who I am, but another face in the sea of humanity. It doesn’t work that way. I have no way to fight it, and what is worse, I cannot even say anything. I am either considered to be guilty, or a kook. So I am in a prison until I can draw them out into the open and expose them.
They are a necessary evil because of the world we are in. In like manner so is our government. But as you said caretaker, there would be ‘worse’ crime if it were not for them, and the fifteen or twenty percent of them who are there for some reason other than to glorify themselves as heroes (without which most of them would quit, not feeling fulfilled as such). But our government is the same. It is a necessary evil. In any case, we are stuck with it, and we ought to appreciate the one we have and praise God for it lest we be stuck with another.
But is anyone aware that the FBI deliberately incarcerated innocent individuals to accomplish their specific goals? It recently was published how that they allowed innocent people to rot in prison in order to put away some Chicago crime bosses. This is published fact. In short, these lost their lives as collateral damage, who were not guilty, in order for the FBI to 'look good' in front of their (whatever).
Also there was a program on TV recently which described how that they gave LSD to unsuspecting individuals whom they found on the streets, to discover if they could accomplish mind control over people. Someone who was their own, fell out of a fourth story window because they wanted to 'exterminate' him, basically because he knew too much about their operations.
Then there is the current practice of profiling, which sometimes involves the use of psychics do discover things about people. Where is our God in this? They practice paganism.
Posts: 3273 | From: Charlotte N.C. | Registered: Sep 2007
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Caretaker
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Member # 36
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posted
Without the police many more predators would prey openly on the vulnerable, and more husbands and fathers would be protecting their loved ones with untrained deadly force.
Romans 13:
3: For rulers are not a terror to good works, but to the evil. Wilt thou then not be afraid of the power? do that which is good, and thou shalt have praise of the same:
4: For he is the minister of God to thee for good. But if thou do that which is evil, be afraid; for he beareth not the sword in vain: for he is the minister of God, a revenger to execute wrath upon him that doeth evil.
Obama is the face of the greater evil in this election, as his record confirms.
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A Servant of Christ,
Drew
1 Tim. 3:
16: And without controversy great is the mystery of godliness: God was manifest in the flesh..
Posts: 3978 | From: Council Grove, KS USA | Registered: Jun 2002
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Betty Louise
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Member # 7175
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posted
Police are real people doing a real jobs. Just as there are bad apples in ever profession there are bad apples in the Police Department. But there are good Christian men and women who serve our Country by being a Police Officer. Yes, they are heroes.
betty
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Luk 21:28 And when these things begin to come to pass, then look up, and lift up your heads; for your redemption draweth nigh.
Posts: 5051 | From: Houston, Texas | Registered: May 2008
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Michael Harrison
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Member # 6801
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posted
I suspect that it will only reveal what I already believe that I know about you. But if you would like.
Now I agree that police are not 'heroes' but rather a necessary evil. I completely see what you are saying. Have you had a bitter experience? Maybe it is just an observation.
Maybe you do not realize that you are in the world. That is how the world works. But it is an instrument in the Maker's hand, these things. We would hope to be Holy enough to be heard, that we would not find a worse instrument in His hand. But if we do not repent and pray, and sit there only, might we be visited with Job's afflictions? When we get an Obama in office, we can expect not to recover, and the world will be well on its way to the events of the apocalypse. So what you do not see is that by participating in the election you are, in spite of what you think, opposing violence. Because we will walk through the fire, regardless. But one fire is hotter than another.
Posts: 3273 | From: Charlotte N.C. | Registered: Sep 2007
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BrianGrass1234
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Member # 5845
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posted
Everything the state does is by violence. That violence can be either aggressive or in response to aggression. The police coming to your aid when your getting robbed is a use of state violence in response to aggression. Pick pretty much any one of McCain's plans for America and is an aggressive use of violence by the state. The same goes for Obama by the way. Lets go with one they both share and the one that on top of the issues links for McCain's web page. Energy policies. They both want to provide funding, by violent force, to select groups and individuals to encourage alternative fuels.
So right off the bat, McCain is willing to use aggressive violence against others to reach his goals. Do you want me to go through every position McCain holds to show how he is proposing to use the violence of the state to get what he wants? I don't have to do them all, I could just do a few if you need just a little more evidence.
Posts: 203 | From: Weed, CA | Registered: Jun 2006
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Michael Harrison
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Member # 6801
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posted
Aggression of the state against someone? That is too vague for me to interpret. But we are going to have a worldly government to answer to. Yet in this country we have some input into that government, for our benefit no-less. Nowhere else in the world is there the degree which we have to be able to do this, if it exists at all anywhere. And for someone to distain it tells me that he or she is either dreadfully uninformed (or misinformed by phony sources), or they have a chip on their shoulder. That is 'two' of only three possibilities, the last being that one appreciates what we have.
I know that it is troubled here, but the foundation is sound. I know that it is troubled here, but The opportunity for it to work is real. It would be strange to trade it for bondage thinking we would be 'gaining' something. And all the people who think that they 'do not have' anything (because they are comparing themselves only with those who have more), are missing the opportunity to compare themselves with Obama's brother who is said to make $12.00 a year, and lives with the fact that flies buzz his ears, and constantly lite on his nose, which he is oblivious to for having grown up with it.
But I do not see a whole lot of aggression against our country coming from McCain. I do with Obama, a whole lot, in fact, a fatal amount. Stupidity can be fatal. If no one believes, check out the "Darwin Awards," on the internet. Will America find itself on the Darwin Awards list?
Posts: 3273 | From: Charlotte N.C. | Registered: Sep 2007
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BrianGrass1234
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Member # 5845
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posted
I cannot support the aggression of the state against others through my vote. My vote will only be in opposition to that aggression or I will not vote at all. A vote for Obama is supporting state aggression, as is a vote for McCain. I will not be responsible for the harm done by these two by supporting either one. Both Obama and McCain represent the authoritarian violence that I stand directly opposed to. As far as I'm concerned, both want to use the violence of the state to do harm to others to reach their goals. That puts them both on the same side, which I stand against.
Posts: 203 | From: Weed, CA | Registered: Jun 2006
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Michael Harrison
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Member # 6801
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posted
VBRIANGRASS:
If you cannot vote 'for' McCain, vote against Obama. It is necessary to vote 'against' Obama.
Evidently you are one of the many people who just don't get it. First of all, no president is going to be everybody's hero candidate. No one is going to be anyone's flawless overall, hero candidate. So if you have to look at it as though there are two people whom you do not want in office, at least vote for the least of the two evils.
But McCain is not all bad. And I certainly like Sarah Palin. She, in my opinion is more capable than the lot. But never mind.
It is so strange what you run into out there. Everybody has such a strange twist to what they think of how it should be here in America. But dummies! Governments are of the world. We know that. Not one is perfect. But if you do not comprehend the potential which we have in this country, that should be appreciated with awe, you flat simply deserve what you'll get if Obama gets in. For night will fall. And yours literally is the attitude which has created the conditions for someone like Obama to run. So, argue if you like, but I will tell you that this country is the gift of 'God' to a latter day ensemble of very fortunate people, as measured against history. If not appreciated and cultivated (by proper relationship with our maker), it will decay, as it has been, and we will be fed to the wolves who surround us in the rest of the world. Have you ever seen a wolf consume prey?
If you doubt the worth of what we have as an American people, read! Watch! There are writings and there are movies. When I was young I got to take a field trip with my elementary school class mates to see a movie called "The Sound of Music." By today's standards it may be a little corny, but there is a strong message contained in it. It is the story of 'change', and how change affected people. The main characters of this story managed a miraculous escape from 'change'. They were extremely, with capitol 'E's' throughout, fortunate to have made it out of there. That they were fortunate was dramatically illustrated when these people got another chance for freedom when President Regan made the now famous comment, "Gorbechev, bring down that wall!"
Another story, which is in the form of a book, and which is a true story about the very same era was, "The Dirk's Escape." This was about the father of IBM. Yep! When the Soviets were taking over Berlin, he managed to escape with a few of his family members. Yet he had to go back in. Still, by a miracle he made it back out with a family member who he almost had to leave behind. But he had also to tear up his plans for the first, as we know it, computer, lest they fall into the hands of the unscrupulous task masters, who were the Soviets. He committed his work to memory and fled.
During the course of escaping, one of the family members who was covering for the rest of the family so that they could get out of town described being 'raped' by one of the invading army soldiers, to which she commented that in the future she would make it easier on herself by not resisting the next time. She was just facing reality.
Dirks noted the difference between how the West treated Berliners, compared to how the Soviets treated them. It is very descript. And to mention one of those differences, he said that we invested in the people to build them up. The Soviets however took everything of value, which could be unbolted and moved, out of the country and shipped it to the motherland. Of course, people who were considered to be a threat to the Soviet system were either imprisoned, or killed.
Other books to read are the likes of those by Reverend Wurmbrand‘s, “Tortured for Christ.” Wurmbrand was a Lutheran minister in Russia, who was imprisoned for fifteen years in Communist prisons, as was his wife. His story is very revealing. And the terror of what is waiting to overtake us is well illustrated in his books.
Still another book is “Tortured for His Faith,” by Haralan Popov. I guess it is cumulative. After reading his book, some years after reading Wurmbrand’s, my spirit is tearful. Whatever I have, these people deserve to have, I now feel. For my heart goes out to them. I give it to them. You have to read the story to appreciate it.
Argentina is currently in the news. It is a socialist country. It is an example the likes of which Obama believes in. Well, in the past week they have announced that they are raiding people’s retirement pensions. What people have worked for, and which they thought would keep them accommodated in their old age is being raided to accommodate what the government believes is a better use for the money. That is where the Obama legacy will lead. Grasp it! This is not fear mongering. It is reality. So don’t be stupid! And for those of you who are shocked that I would lose my cool, no apology will be forthcoming. Someday, when we get through this, and you look back and realize all that is said here is true, you will thank me. Even more, you will thank your Father! Ninety nine percent of Americans today evidently do not realize how dark it can become, and will, if an Obama takes the reigns of government next month.
Posts: 3273 | From: Charlotte N.C. | Registered: Sep 2007
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BrianGrass1234
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Member # 5845
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posted
All I'm reading in this section is negative posts about Obama in an attempt, I assume, to sway people to vote for McCain. But why is all the bad Obama will do, or have done, a justification to put you support behind all the bad McCain has done, and will do?
Posts: 203 | From: Weed, CA | Registered: Jun 2006
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