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Topic: The Politics of Jesus?
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Itty-Bitty Girl
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posted
quote:
Originally posted by Good NewsforAll:
That is why it is so crucial for us to pray. God is merciful. We should be able to show mercy also and not forgot the lost.
I will agree with this.
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Good NewsforAll
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That is why it is so crucial for us to pray. God is merciful. We should be able to show mercy also and not forgot the lost.
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The Pharisees tell us what not to do. Jesus tells us what to do.
Romans 10:15 As it is written, "How beautiful are the feet of those who bring good news!"
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Itty-Bitty Girl
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It is okay to pray for the unrepentant, that is not a waste of breath. When the unrepentant themselves pray, they are wasting their breath.
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Good NewsforAll
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It shows that intercession works!
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The Pharisees tell us what not to do. Jesus tells us what to do.
Romans 10:15 As it is written, "How beautiful are the feet of those who bring good news!"
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Itty-Bitty Girl
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^^^ What does that have to do with the prayer of a person with an unrepentant heart?
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Good NewsforAll
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This shows the kind of love God has for all mankind. Do you not think that he loves America the same way? I think some of us have to change our legalistic mindset and show a little more Christian love and compassion.
Exodus 32:7 The Lord told Moses, “Quick! Go down the mountain! Your people whom you brought from the land of Egypt have corrupted themselves.
8 How quickly they have turned away from the way I commanded them to live! They have melted down gold and made a calf, and they have bowed down and sacrificed to it. They are saying, ‘These are your gods, O Israel, who brought you out of the land of Egypt.’”
9 Then the Lord said, “I have seen how stubborn and rebellious these people are. 10 Now leave me alone so my fierce anger can blaze against them, and I will destroy them. Then I will make you, Moses, into a great nation.”
11 But Moses tried to pacify the Lord his God. “O Lord!” he said. “Why are you so angry with your own people whom you brought from the land of Egypt with such great power and such a strong hand? 12 Why let the Egyptians say, ‘Their God rescued them with the evil intention of slaughtering them in the mountains and wiping them from the face of the earth’? Turn away from your fierce anger. Change your mind about this terrible disaster you have threatened against your people!
13 Remember your servants Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob.[a] You bound yourself with an oath to them, saying, ‘I will make your descendants as numerous as the stars of heaven. And I will give them all of this land that I have promised to your descendants, and they will possess it forever.’”
BUT THE LORD CHANGED HIS MIND ABOUT THE TERRIBLE DISASTER HE HAD THREATENED TO BRING TO HIS PEOPLE.
How profound and moving.
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The Pharisees tell us what not to do. Jesus tells us what to do.
Romans 10:15 As it is written, "How beautiful are the feet of those who bring good news!"
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Itty-Bitty Girl
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posted
quote:
Originally posted by becauseHElives:
Prayer offered by the unrepentant are wasted breath!
I'll have to agree with this.
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becauseHElives
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Good NewsforAll
Prayer offered by the unrepentant are wasted breath!
Yahweh reject the proud and gives grace to the humble....James 4:4-10
2nd Chronicles 7:14 says "If my people who are called by my name, will humble themselves and pray and seek my face and turn from their wicked ways, then I will hear from heaven and forgive their sin and heal their land."
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Strive to enter in at the strait gate:for many, I say unto you will seek to enter in, and shall not be able. ( Luke 13:24 )
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Good NewsforAll
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posted
quote:
Originally posted by becauseHElives:
There is no use wasting time praying if you are not dealing with sin daily in your life. that is the simplest truth taught in the scriptures!
![[Eek!]](eek.gif)
Prayer is never a waste of time. There is such a thing as intercessory prayer. If it works to protect our unsave loved ones, it should work for an unsaved country.
The Israelites did nothing but grumble and complain during the whole 40 years in the wilderness, but God came to their rescue many times through the intercession of Moses. Manna fell from heaven to feed them, water sprang from rocks to supply them with refreshment. Time and again he threatened to pour out his wrath, but Moses' pleadings rescued them, in spite of even idolatry.
Deuteronomy 8:3 He humbled you, causing you to hunger and then feeding you with manna, which neither you nor your fathers had known, to teach you that man does not live on bread alone but on every word that comes from the mouth of the LORD. 4 Your clothes did not wear out and your feet did not swell during these forty years.
It shows how much God loves everyone and wants the best for them all.
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The Pharisees tell us what not to do. Jesus tells us what to do.
Romans 10:15 As it is written, "How beautiful are the feet of those who bring good news!"
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BrianGrass1234
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I don't think Jesus would bother to vote. Like it has been said, His kingdom will come later. But I do believe that He would speak out against christians using the violence of the state to get what they want. We do know that Jesus taught us to love our neighbor, not to hold debts against people, not to seek to punish those that wrong us and to basically put others above ourselves. This way of thinking is incompatible with the government and leaders we have today and I think unless a christian is working in opposition to what we have, then christians should stay away from the government.
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becauseHElives
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There are Churches, there are individual people who call themselves Christian with 10 Thousand, 20 Thousand, 30 Thousand, 40 Thousand, 50 Thousand, ….100 Thousand, millions of dollars in Certificate on Deposit, in bank accounts, they have no needs, they have nice houses, nice cars, plenty to eat but they continue to plan for the future, they take no thought for the hungry in the world are in their own neighborhood.
They are good at the Church Game, sing, raise their hand, look pious while the preacher preaches but they have not the love of Yahweh.
Mark my words this country because of it selfishness and greed in the Churches of America is coming down like a house of cards.
Never forget James word to the Church….
FAITH WITHOUT WORKS IS DEAD !!!!!!!!!!!!!!
1 John 3:17
But whoso hath this world's good, and seeth his brother have need, and shutteth up his bowels of compassion from him, how dwelleth the love of God in him?
Prayer is only affective in a person who shuns evil, does not take pleasure in others sin through the movies and entertainment of this world.
Prayer is only affective in the person who feel the hungry and pain of those around them and does all in their power to relieve that need.
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Strive to enter in at the strait gate:for many, I say unto you will seek to enter in, and shall not be able. ( Luke 13:24 )
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Itty-Bitty Girl
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From what I have learned here in this thread, I think Jesus’ politics are in the Kingdom of God.
John 18:36
“Jesus answered, My kingdom is not of this world: if my kingdom were of this world, then would my servants fight, that I should not be delivered to the Jews: but now is my kingdom not from hence.”
Jesus was not concerned with the kingdoms of the world but with the kingdom of heaven. And the supreme law of the land of God’s Kingdom is to Love God and Love your neighbor. Jesus does not tell us who to vote for, because in His Kingdom, there is no voting. And Jesus does not tell us who to vote for in kingdoms of the world because he is not concerned with worldly government affairs.
Is this the lesson I should be taking from this thread?
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Itty-Bitty Girl
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Some kind of super revival must take place. Just an idea.
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Itty-Bitty Girl
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posted
quote:
Originally posted by becauseHElives:
America is not the answer to the worlds problems, Yeshua and His Church are!
Exactly. Jesus is the answer.
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becauseHElives
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Right,Itty-Bitty Girl
The Hand Writing is on the Wall!!!!
and I believe we are in the final generation, things prophesied must shortly come to pass on a world scale.
America is not the answer to the worlds problems, Yeshua and His Church are!
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Strive to enter in at the strait gate:for many, I say unto you will seek to enter in, and shall not be able. ( Luke 13:24 )
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Itty-Bitty Girl
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I don't even think I want to vote anymore because I believe it won't change anything. I think if voting could change anything, it would be made illegal to do so.
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Itty-Bitty Girl
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posted
quote:
Originally posted by becauseHElives:
There is no use wasting time praying if you are not dealing with sin daily in your life. that is the simplest truth taught in the scriptures!
Good NewsforAll did you not read….
Psalm 66:18
If I regard iniquity in my heart, the Lord will not hear me:
Answer me what kind of people does Yahweh answer according to that verse?
I promise you it is not the Joel Osteen’s Oral Roberts’s, Robert Schuler’s, Billy Graham’s, Rick Warren’s, Benny Hinn’s , TBN crowd and such
James 4:3 You ask and do not receive, because you ask with wrong motives, so that you may spend it on your pleasures.
John 9:31 "We know that God does not hear sinners; but if anyone is God-fearing and does His will, He hears him.
Right on.
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Itty-Bitty Girl
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posted
quote:
Originally posted by becauseHElives:
not talking about angles killing anyone, talking about angles or what ever other means Yahweh chooses to keep those that would try to stop the agenda that is set for America's destiny as it is now headed!
it will take a miracle for any of the candidates for President to get saved...
it will take a miracle for them then to get elected to office...
then it will take another miracle to keep them alive after elected...(The power now in America would have him killed, just like they killed JF Kennedy)
but we do serve a miracle working GOD!!!!
but then we are back to a miracle to get the CHURCH to live out....
2nd Chronicles 7:14 to get the ball rolling...
"If my people who are called by my name, will humble themselves and pray and seek my face and turn from their wicked ways, then I will hear from heaven and forgive their sin and heal their land."
So basically America is doomed unless it turns from its sins. Right, Dale?
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Itty-Bitty Girl
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posted
quote:
Originally posted by Good NewsforAll:
It looks like that some of you believe that since everyone is a sinner in American there is no use praying and supporting the country. God is a lot bigger than that and He doesn't work that way. However, he needs mighty prayer warriors behind him who don't have a hohum attitude to make changes, even in a sinful environment.
It is okay to be pray, and even be a prayer warrior. I pray, but I just cannot support this country because I do not like the shape that the country is in. I can pray for a change, but that seems like all I can do.
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becauseHElives
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posted
There is no use wasting time praying if you are not dealing with sin daily in your life. that is the simplest truth taught in the scriptures!
Good NewsforAll did you not read….
Psalm 66:18
If I regard iniquity in my heart, the Lord will not hear me:
Answer me what kind of people does Yahweh answer according to that verse?
I promise you it is not the Joel Osteen’s Oral Roberts’s, Robert Schuler’s, Billy Graham’s, Rick Warren’s, Benny Hinn’s , TBN crowd and such
James 4:3 You ask and do not receive, because you ask with wrong motives, so that you may spend it on your pleasures.
John 9:31 "We know that God does not hear sinners; but if anyone is God-fearing and does His will, He hears him.
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Strive to enter in at the strait gate:for many, I say unto you will seek to enter in, and shall not be able. ( Luke 13:24 )
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Good NewsforAll
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It looks like that some of you believe that since everyone is a sinner in American there is no use praying and supporting the country. God is a lot bigger than that and He doesn't work that way. However, he needs mighty prayer warriors behind him who don't have a hohum attitude to make changes, even in a sinful environment.
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The Pharisees tell us what not to do. Jesus tells us what to do.
Romans 10:15 As it is written, "How beautiful are the feet of those who bring good news!"
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becauseHElives
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not talking about angles killing anyone, talking about angles or what ever other means Yahweh chooses to keep those that would try to stop the agenda that is set for America's destiny as it is now headed!
it will take a miracle for any of the candidates for President to get saved...
it will take a miracle for them then to get elected to office...
then it will take another miracle to keep them alive after elected...(The power now in America would have him killed, just like they killed JF Kennedy)
but we do serve a miracle working GOD!!!!
but then we are back to a miracle to get the CHURCH to live out....
2nd Chronicles 7:14 to get the ball rolling...
"If my people who are called by my name, will humble themselves and pray and seek my face and turn from their wicked ways, then I will hear from heaven and forgive their sin and heal their land."
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Strive to enter in at the strait gate:for many, I say unto you will seek to enter in, and shall not be able. ( Luke 13:24 )
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Itty-Bitty Girl
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posted
quote:
Originally posted by becauseHElives:
One of the candidates for President will have to truly get saved to turn the tide of evil in this country and then it will take a miracle from Yahweh Himself to keep the powers that be from having them killed.
The powers that be in Romans 13 are angels, why would angels have someone killed?
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becauseHElives
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posted
quote:
Good NewsforAll
________________________________________
You should always pray for our leaders for wisdom, no matter if they don't have the same religion you do. I believe there is a scripture to the affect. Will try to find it. God cares for them just as much as he does you, and it is the prayers of the people that turn the country around, not a lack luster attitude.
Here’s the scriptures you were looking for….
2nd Chronicles 7:14 says "If my people who are called by my name, will humble themselves and pray and seek my face and turn from their wicked ways, then I will hear from heaven and forgive their sin and heal their land."
Also
1 Timothy 2
1FIRST OF all, then, I admonish and urge that petitions, prayers, intercessions, and thanksgivings be offered on behalf of all men,
2For kings and all who are in positions of authority or high responsibility, that [outwardly] we may pass a quiet and undisturbed life [and inwardly] a peaceable one in all godliness and reverence and seriousness in every way.
3For such [praying] is good and right, and [it is] pleasing and acceptable to God our Savior,
4Who wishes all men to be saved and [increasingly] to perceive and recognize and discern and know precisely and correctly the [divine] Truth.
5For there [is only] one God, and [only] one Mediator between God and men, the Man Christ Jesus,
6Who gave Himself as a ransom for all [people, a fact that was] attested to at the right and proper time.
7And of this matter I was appointed a preacher and an apostle (special messenger)--I am speaking the truth in Christ, I do not falsify [when I say this]--a teacher of the Gentiles in [the realm of] faith and truth.
8I desire therefore that in every place men should pray, without anger or quarreling or resentment or doubt [in their minds], lifting up holy hands.
9Also [I desire] that women should adorn themselves modestly and appropriately and sensibly in seemly apparel, not with [elaborate] hair arrangement or gold or pearls or expensive clothing,
10But by doing good deeds (deeds in themselves good and for the good and advantage of those contacted by them), as befits women who profess reverential fear for and devotion to God.
11Let a woman learn in quietness, in entire submissiveness.
12I allow no woman to teach or to have authority over men; she is to remain in quietness and keep silence [in religious assemblies].
13For Adam was first formed, then Eve;(A)
14And it was not Adam who was deceived, but [the] woman who was deceived and deluded and fell into transgression.(B)
15Nevertheless [the sentence put upon women of pain in motherhood does not hinder their souls' salvation, and] they will be saved [eternally] if they continue in faith and love and holiness with self-control, [saved indeed] [a]through the Childbearing or by the birth of the divine Child.
quote:
Who are the vessels to bring order in these prayers, the leaders of the country no matter how biased some people choose to believe? The country may be in a mess in a lot of ways, but it is the lack of good prayerful support that gets it in a mess.
Yahweh makes it very plain, He only listens to those with a true repentant heart.
A lot of people think just praying is enough but Yahweh makes it clear He does not even hear the prayer of those that regard inequity in their heart!
Psalm 66:18
If I regard iniquity in my heart, the Lord will not hear me:
Psalm 18:41 They cried for help, but there was none to save, Even to the LORD, but He did not answer them.
Proverbs 1:28 "Then they will call on me, but I will not answer; They will seek me diligently but they will not find me,
Proverbs 28:9 He who turns away his ear from listening to the law, Even his prayer is an abomination.
Isaiah 1:15 "So when you spread out your hands in prayer, I will hide My eyes from you; Yes, even though you multiply prayers, I will not listen. Your hands are covered with blood.
John 9:31 "We know that God does not hear sinners; but if anyone is God-fearing and does His will, He hears him.
James 4:3 You ask and do not receive, because you ask with wrong motives, so that you may spend it on your pleasures.
quote:
I wouldn't want to be under the dictatorships of Iran or Cuba, or live in pagan Africa. American is still somewhat Godly-based, so support and appreciate it
I do appreciate what remain of Yeshua in America, but I do not deceive myself that anything but a full blown Holy Ghost Revival will save this nation.
One of the candidates for President will have to truly get saved to turn the tide of evil in this country and then it will take a miracle from Yahweh Himself to keep the powers that be from having them killed.
quote:
Why is there no longer prayers in schools? It is the lack of a good strong army of Christians behind fighting to keep it in the schools.
The reason there is no prayer in public school is because there is no prayer in the home and Church. You can not stop a person from praying unless you are more afraid of the public school system and what they can do , than you are of Yahweh will do if you do not obey.
quote:
Too many Christians are sitting back and letting the devil run all over us. What a great tool of deceit he has.
The devil does not run over me, I will not let him, and I am not afraid to speak the Truth here are in front of a Federal Judge or to the President.
Too many Christians have read the book “How to win friends and influence people” by Dale Carnegie.
I assure you and every one else, men that have been used by Yahweh never compromised with this world or leaders of this world.
Yahweh only hears those that live right before Yahweh and shun evil!
If you read this you better pay attention to what the Spirit of Yahweh is saying through this ignorant carpenter.
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Strive to enter in at the strait gate:for many, I say unto you will seek to enter in, and shall not be able. ( Luke 13:24 )
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Itty-Bitty Girl
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Kingdom of Heaven is not of this world. It will crush all the other kingdoms and itself will endure forever.
John 18:36
“Jesus answered, My kingdom is not of this world: if my kingdom were of this world, then would my servants fight, that I should not be delivered to the Jews: but now is my kingdom not from hence.”
Kingdom of Heaven is near.
Mark 1:14-15
“Now after that John was put in prison, Jesus came into Galilee, preaching the gospel of the kingdom of God,
And saying, The time is fulfilled, and the kingdom of God is at hand: repent ye, and believe the gospel.”
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Itty-Bitty Girl
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posted
quote:
Originally posted by Good NewsforAll: ![[Confused]](confused.gif)
Whomever God wills to be in power will be in power, nothing gets past God.
God's will be done.
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Itty-Bitty Girl
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quote:
Originally posted by Good NewsforAll:
There will be no tares and wheat in the kingdom heaven, or wickedness.
No tares, but wheat. What I am saying is that we are to be subject to the authorities of the Kingdom of heaven- the powers that be- the ones who do the sorting at the end of the world and when the Kingdom of heaven comes.
Jesus compares the Kingdom of Heaven to a man sowing good seeds in the field. The enemy sowed tares among the wheat. The man wanted the wheat and tares to grow together so that when harvest time came the tares could be gathered first and burned, then the wheat into the barn.
Matthew 13:36-42
Then Jesus sent the multitude away, and went into the house: and his disciples came unto him, saying, Declare unto us the parable of the tares of the field.
He answered and said unto them, He that soweth the good seed is the Son of man;
The field is the world; the good seed are the children of the kingdom; but the tares are the children of the wicked one;
The enemy that sowed them is the devil; the harvest is the end of the world; and the reapers are the angels.
As therefore the tares are gathered and burned in the fire; so shall it be in the end of this world.
The Son of man shall send forth his angels, and they shall gather out of his kingdom all things that offend, and them which do iniquity;
42And shall cast them into a furnace of fire: there shall be wailing and gnashing of teeth.
43Then shall the righteous shine forth as the sun in the kingdom of their Father. Who hath ears to hear, let him hear.
Jesus explains that the man sowing the good seed is himself, the field is the world, the good seed are the children of the kingdom and the tares are the children of the wicked one that the devil sowed. Not everyone is a child of the kingdom, some are really hypocrites and are children of the wicked one. The harvest is the end of the world and the reapers are the angels. At the end of the world, the angels will come and gather out of the Lord’s kingdom all those who do iniquity and shall cast them into the furnace of fire, where there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth. The righteous will shine as the sun. I know that the tares will not enter the kingdom of heaven.
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Good NewsforAll
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Originally posted by Good NewsforAll:
quote:
That's your interpretation. We are not supposed to worship angels.
Colossians 2:18
Let no man beguile you of your reward in a voluntary humility and worshipping of angels, intruding into those things which he hath not seen, vainly puffed up by his fleshly mind.
I'll get my guidance from the Holy Spirit through Jesus Christ my Lord.
Itty-Bitty:I did NOT say “WORSHIP ANGELS”. I said BE SUBJECT to them, be under them; they are the ones who will sort out the wicked from the just, the tares from the wheat. I am talking about the KINGDOM of HEAVEN.[/qb][/QUOTE]
Good Newsfor All:There will be no tares and wheat in the kingdom heaven, or wickedness.
quote:
Originally posted by Good NewsforAll:
quote:
He needs us to be his praying vessels. Did he pick Castro to be put into power? Did he pick Hitler to be put in power? It is up to the people to get out and vote.
Itty-Bitty:God willed Castro and even Hitler to be in power, because nothing gets past God. Trust me when I tell you that. [/QB]
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The Pharisees tell us what not to do. Jesus tells us what to do.
Romans 10:15 As it is written, "How beautiful are the feet of those who bring good news!"
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Itty-Bitty Girl
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quote:
Originally posted by Good NewsforAll:
[QUOTE]That's your interpretation. We are not supposed to worship angels.
Colossians 2:18
Let no man beguile you of your reward in a voluntary humility and worshipping of angels, intruding into those things which he hath not seen, vainly puffed up by his fleshly mind.
I'll get my guidance from the Holy Spirit through Jesus Christ my Lord.
I did NOT say “WORSHIP ANGELS”. I said BE SUBJECT to them, be under them; they are the ones who will sort out the wicked from the just, the tares from the wheat. I am talking about the KINGDOM of HEAVEN.
quote:
Originally posted by Good NewsforAll:
[QUOTE]He needs us to be his praying vessels. Did he pick Castro to be put into power? Did he pick Hitler to be put in power? It is up to the people to get out and vote.
God willed Castro and even Hitler to be in power, because nothing gets past God. Trust me when I tell you that.
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Good NewsforAll
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quote:
Originally posted by Itty-Bitty Girl:
I guess you must have looked over the part where I describe what magistrates do. “Even the magistrates mentioned are executors of God’s judgment.” They are angels also.
That's your interpretation. We are not supposed to worship angels.
Colossians 2:18
Let no man beguile you of your reward in a voluntary humility and worshipping of angels, intruding into those things which he hath not seen, vainly puffed up by his fleshly mind.
I'll get my guidance from the Holy Spirit through Jesus Christ my Lord.
quote:
He is great enough to stand up for himself, and pick whomever he wills to be in office.
He needs us to be his praying vessels. Did he pick Castro to be put into power? Did he pick Hitler to be put in power? It is up to the people to get out and vote.
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The Pharisees tell us what not to do. Jesus tells us what to do.
Romans 10:15 As it is written, "How beautiful are the feet of those who bring good news!"
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Itty-Bitty Girl
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quote:
Originally posted by Good NewsforAll:
This is in reference to the here and now. Angels don't rule this world. God does.
The earth is Satan’s domain and God’s footstool. The scriptures you gave were references to the Kingdom of Heaven, not kingdoms of this world. Higher powers, or the powers that be, are ordained as authorities in the Kingdom of Heaven, and those are the ones we should be in subject to. Although God is the supreme ruler, He appointed Principalities also as rulers in the Kingdom of Heaven.
quote:
Originally posted by Good NewsforAll:
Angels are merely messengers.
The angels in the angel category are messengers, and they are the lowest order of the angelic hierarchy, and they are the most familiar to people. The angels are sent as messengers to people. They are the ones most concerned with the affairs of living things.
There is a category of angels; there are many different kinds of angels, with different functions. Below is the descending order of rank:
First Sphere
Seraphim
Cherubim
Ophanim
Second Sphere
Thrones
Dominions
Powers
Third Sphere
Principalities
Archangels
Angels
quote:
Originally posted by Good NewsforAll:
I notice you didn't highlight "to obey magistrates," who monitor the laws of the land.
I guess you must have looked over the part where I describe what magistrates do. “Even the magistrates mentioned are executors of God’s judgment.” They are angels also.
quote:
Originally posted by Good NewsforAll:
The founding fathers fought to lay the ground work for "In God we Trust." Abe Lincoln would role in his grave if he didn't think that Christians would vote to fight to preserve this foundation. Your vote may not totally turn this country around, but its power would certainly make a huge dint in the devil's plans. I, for one, believe in the power of prayer.
The law of the land does not say we have to vote, it is a choice, regardless of what Abe thinks. God can put a dent in the devil’s plans; he does not need us to stand up for him and vote “His way”. He is great enough to stand up for himself, and pick whomever he wills to be in office.
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Good NewsforAll
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quote:
Originally posted by Itty-Bitty Girl:
Titus 3:1-2 (King James Version)
“Put them in mind to be subject to principalities and powers, to obey magistrates, to be ready to every good work,
To speak evil of no man, to be no brawlers, but gentle, shewing all meekness unto all men.”
The Principalities (Rulers) and the Powers (Authorities) in this passage are angels. We are to be in subject to them. It is a reference to the Kingdom of Heaven.
This is in reference to the here and now. Angels don't rule this world. God does. Angels are merely messengers. I notice you didn't highlight "to obey magistrates," who monitor the laws of the land.
quote:
Originally posted by Itty-Bitty Girl: Does the law of the land say that you have to vote?
The founding fathers fought to lay the ground work for "In God we Trust." Abe Lincoln would role in his grave if he didn't think that Christians would vote to fight to preserve this foundation. Your vote may not totally turn this country around, but its power would certainly make a huge dint in the devil's plans. I, for one, believe in the power of prayer.
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The Pharisees tell us what not to do. Jesus tells us what to do.
Romans 10:15 As it is written, "How beautiful are the feet of those who bring good news!"
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Itty-Bitty Girl
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quote:
Originally posted by Good NewsforAll:
Jesus respected the laws of of the land.
Matthew 17: 24After Jesus and his disciples arrived in Capernaum, the collectors of the two-drachma tax came to Peter and asked, "Doesn't your teacher pay the temple tax?"
25"Yes, he does," he replied. When Peter came into the house, Jesus was the first to speak. "What do you think, Simon?" he asked. "From whom do the kings of the earth collect duty and taxes—from their own sons or from others?"
26"From others," Peter answered. "Then the sons are exempt," Jesus said to him. 27"But so that we may not offend them, go to the lake and throw out your line. Take the first fish you catch; open its mouth and you will find a four-drachma coin. Take it and give it to them for my tax and yours.
If Americans don't pray about who to vote for and get out and vote, they are giving free reign for the devil to do as he wishes. If the new president agrees to divide Israel, the world is going to be big trouble. The scriptues say that it must never be divided. Christians should band together in a large force and get behind a candidate who is pro-Israel. Take away the veil from your eyes folks.
Does the law of the land say that you have to vote?
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Itty-Bitty Girl
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quote:
Originally posted by Good NewsforAll:
Titus 3:1Remind the people to be subject to rulers and authorities, to be obedient, to be ready to do whatever is good, 2to slander no one, to be peaceable and considerate, and to show true humility toward all men.
HIGHER POWERS
Titus 3:1-2 (King James Version)
“Put them in mind to be subject to principalities and powers, to obey magistrates, to be ready to every good work,
To speak evil of no man, to be no brawlers, but gentle, shewing all meekness unto all men.”
The Principalities (Rulers) and the Powers (Authorities) in this passage are angels. We are to be in subject to them. It is a reference to the Kingdom of Heaven. These celestial beings appear to collaborate, in power and authority, although the principalities are higher than powers. Even the magistrates mentioned are executors of God’s judgment. There are types of angels that are called “powers”, just like there are types of angels called “cherubim”, “principalities”, all in the angelic hierarchy. The celestial hierarchy is a traditional hierarchy of angels ranked from lowest to highest into the following nine orders [Third Sphere: angels, archangels, powers; Second Sphere: principalities, dominions, thrones; First Sphere: ophanim, cherubim, and seraphim].
quote:
Originally posted by Good NewsforAll:
Romans 131Everyone must submit himself to the governing authorities, for there is no authority except that which God has established. The authorities that exist have been established by God. 2Consequently, he who rebels against the authority is rebelling against what God has instituted, and those who do so will bring judgment on themselves.
3For rulers hold no terror for those who do right, but for those who do wrong. Do you want to be free from fear of the one in authority? Then do what is right and he will commend you. 4For he is God's servant to do you good. But if you do wrong, be afraid, for he does not bear the sword for nothing. He is God's servant, an agent of wrath to bring punishment on the wrongdoer. 5Therefore, it is necessary to submit to the authorities, not only because of possible punishment but also because of conscience.
6This is also why you pay taxes, for the authorities are God's servants, who give their full time to governing. 7Give everyone what you owe him: If you owe taxes, pay taxes; if revenue, then revenue; if respect, then respect; if honor, then honor.
HIGHER POWERS
Romans 13:1-8 (King James Version)
“Let every soul be subject unto the higher powers. For there is no power but of God: the powers that be are ordained of God.
Whosoever therefore resisteth the power, resisteth the ordinance of God: and they that resist shall receive to themselves damnation.
For rulers are not a terror to good works, but to the evil. Wilt thou then not be afraid of the power? do that which is good, and thou shalt have praise of the same:
For he is the minister of God to thee for good. But if thou do that which is evil, be afraid; for he beareth not the sword in vain: for he is the minister of God, a revenger to execute wrath upon him that doeth evil.
Wherefore ye must needs be subject, not only for wrath, but also for conscience sake.
For for this cause pay ye tribute also: for they are God's ministers, attending continually upon this very thing.
Render therefore to all their dues: tribute to whom tribute is due; custom to whom custom; fear to whom fear; honour to whom honour.
Owe no man any thing, but to love one another: for he that loveth another hath fulfilled the law.”
God’s ministers in that passage is angels, higher Powers (Authorities) and Principalities (Rulers) that are a “minister of God to thee for good”, not man. In Romans 13, Paul was talking about the Kingdom of Heaven, not kingdoms of this world. When the Kingdom of Heaven comes and the Son of Man returns, God will send the revengers who are to “execute wrath upon him that doeth evil.” It is written, “Vengeance is mine; I will repay, saith the Lord”(Romans 12:19). The ones who are righteous by faith are subject and have nothing to fear because the wrath of God does not abide on them, they “shalt have praise”; Lord Jesus will commend them. The people who are wicked are not subject and are to be afraid because the wrath of God abides on them, and they “shall receive to themselves damnation”.
Matthew 13:41-42
“The Son of man shall send forth his angels, and they shall gather out of his kingdom all things that offend, and them which do iniquity;
And shall cast them into a furnace of fire: there shall be wailing and gnashing of teeth.”
These warrior angels are the ones who bear the swords, and they do not bear the swords in vain. We are to be subject, not only for wrath, but also for conscience sake. The powers are the bearers of conscience and the keepers of history.
Paul moves on to talk about taxes, because we are to owe no man anything. We don't pay taxes to angels, but as God's ministers they attend continually upon the very thing that no one is owed, that all debts be either paid or forgiven, because it is God’s will that no one is owed. Custom to whom custom is due, fear to which fear is due and honor to who honor is due.
Makes good sense to me.
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Michael Harrison
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The premise of this government of ours is that it is ours (We the People, Of the People, By the People, and For the People). Therefore we are astonishingly fortunate to participate concerning its laws and establishments. That is a superhigh gift in view of the world order.
The most deadly danger that we face are those who want highhanded, big government (deomocrats, aka socialists), which is contrary to what our founding fathers desired for themselves and us.
When Paul spole of the slaves in his epistles, he said:
![[Cross]](graemlins/cross.gif) "Art thou called being a servant? care not for it: but if thou mayest be made free, use it rather." (1Co 7:21)
The same would apply for us as citizens! Big time!
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Good NewsforAll
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I know of one fundamentalist church that believes that their way of salvation is the only way and look down their noses at anyone outside of their faith, and seem to pridefully figure it is a waste of time praying for those heathens who wear red tights and carry spears. There is many a lost power of prayer with that sort of attitude.
They respect no one outside of their faith.
Titus 3:1Remind the people to be subject to rulers and authorities, to be obedient, to be ready to do whatever is good, 2to slander no one, to be peaceable and considerate, and to show true humility toward all men.
Vrs.9 But avoid foolish controversies and genealogies and arguments and quarrels about the law, because these are unprofitable and useless.
Romans 131Everyone must submit himself to the governing authorities, for there is no authority except that which God has established. The authorities that exist have been established by God. 2Consequently, he who rebels against the authority is rebelling against what God has instituted, and those who do so will bring judgment on themselves.
3For rulers hold no terror for those who do right, but for those who do wrong. Do you want to be free from fear of the one in authority? Then do what is right and he will commend you. 4For he is God's servant to do you good. But if you do wrong, be afraid, for he does not bear the sword for nothing. He is God's servant, an agent of wrath to bring punishment on the wrongdoer. 5Therefore, it is necessary to submit to the authorities, not only because of possible punishment but also because of conscience.
6This is also why you pay taxes, for the authorities are God's servants, who give their full time to governing. 7Give everyone what you owe him: If you owe taxes, pay taxes; if revenue, then revenue; if respect, then respect; if honor, then honor.
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The Pharisees tell us what not to do. Jesus tells us what to do.
Romans 10:15 As it is written, "How beautiful are the feet of those who bring good news!"
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Good NewsforAll
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You should always pray for our leaders for wisdom, no matter if they don't have the same religion you do. I believe there is a scripture to the affect. Will try to find it. God cares for them just as much as he does you, and it is the prayers of the people that turn the country around, not a lack lustre attitude.
Who are the vessels to bring order in these prayers, the leaders of the country no matter how biased some people choose to believe. The country may be in a mess in a lot of ways, but it is the lack of good prayerful support that gets it in a mess.
I wouldn't want to be under the dictatorships of Iran or Cuba, or live in pagan Africa. American is still somewhat Godly-based, so support and appreciate it
Why is there no longer prayers in schools? It is the lack of a good strong army of Christians behind fighting to keep it in the schools.
Too many Christians are sitting back and letting the devil run all over us. What a great tool of deceit he has.
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The Pharisees tell us what not to do. Jesus tells us what to do.
Romans 10:15 As it is written, "How beautiful are the feet of those who bring good news!"
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becauseHElives
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so which of the heathen running for office would Yeshua vote for?
all of them claim to be Christians but all their actions deny Him.
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Strive to enter in at the strait gate:for many, I say unto you will seek to enter in, and shall not be able. ( Luke 13:24 )
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Good NewsforAll
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Jesus respected the laws of of the land.
Matthew 17: 24After Jesus and his disciples arrived in Capernaum, the collectors of the two-drachma tax came to Peter and asked, "Doesn't your teacher pay the temple tax?"
25"Yes, he does," he replied. When Peter came into the house, Jesus was the first to speak. "What do you think, Simon?" he asked. "From whom do the kings of the earth collect duty and taxes—from their own sons or from others?"
26"From others," Peter answered. "Then the sons are exempt," Jesus said to him. 27"But so that we may not offend them, go to the lake and throw out your line. Take the first fish you catch; open its mouth and you will find a four-drachma coin. Take it and give it to them for my tax and yours.
If Americans don't pray about who to vote for and get out and vote, they are giving free reign for the devil to do as he wishes. If the new president agrees to divide Israel, the world is going to be big trouble. The scriptues say that it must never be divided. Christians should band together in a large force and get behind a candidate who is pro-Israel. Take away the veil from your eyes folks.
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The Pharisees tell us what not to do. Jesus tells us what to do.
Romans 10:15 As it is written, "How beautiful are the feet of those who bring good news!"
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Itty-Bitty Girl
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I have an Idea. Since devotion to God is the key and devotion to man is not, I can participate in the political process just because I am in the world without devotion to the world.
Can I show that I am in the world but not OF the world this way?
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Michael Harrison
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"I pray not that thou shouldest take them out of the world, but that thou shouldest keep them from the evil." Jesus (Joh 17:15 )
You are not of the world, but you are still a part of it by being in it. There would be no need for an expression like "Ye are the salt of the earth. If the salt has lost its savor, it is fit for nothing but to be trodden under the feet of men," if the Christian had no influence over politics, or the affairs of men.
In either case, devotion to God is key!
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Itty-Bitty Girl
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Jesus was in a political setting, but He was not political in the Roman kingdom of the world. The Pharisees and Sadducees were even political parties in that kingdom, but Jesus was not political at all.
This must be because Christ Jesus must have been devoted to Yahweh and His will.
Devotion to God is the key, right?
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becauseHElives
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"In the world not of the world " these are Yeshua's words...
you can not compromise with the world and be a Christian!
you can not be in politics and not compromise with the world!
that is why the choice "choose ye this day who will ye serve ... Yahweh or Self
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Strive to enter in at the strait gate:for many, I say unto you will seek to enter in, and shall not be able. ( Luke 13:24 )
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Michael Harrison
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"No man that warreth entangleth himself with the affairs of this life; that he may please him who hath chosen him to be a soldier." (2Ti 2:4)
Ah ahgree with becausehelives' statement. I believe that one can abstain from the world and pray, and be more effective than if they voted.
While we are in the world but not 'of' the world,
"Render therefore to all their dues: tribute to whom tribute is due; custom to whom custom; fear to whom fear; honour to whom honour." (Rom 13:7)
we can participate. In America, unlike anywhere on earth, we have a gift that should not be depreciated, in that we are openly able. It is a very valuable asset.
I recall a story, and wish that i could find it again, about how that in England, literally overnight, a communist individual took the reigns of the country. A minister, astonished that this happened, traveled the country on horseback exhorting everyone to reconsider. They did. It had good results. It was a very, very good thing.
The times we live in however lend better to the scripture in Revelations that says to "come out of her and partivipate not in her sins."
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Itty-Bitty Girl
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quote:
Originally posted by becauseHElives:
Itty-Bitty Girl good to have you back,
Yeshua's only politics was the Kingdom of Yahweh,
what the rulers of this world did or do is no concern to Him or those that serve Him.
Are you saying that God cares nothing about politics of the kingdoms of the world, and only of the politics of kingdom of heaven? Not concerned about worldly government affairs, but heavenly government affairs.
If so, it makes good sense.
Now, I feel like dropping off of the political spectrum, seeing that God is not concerned with it.
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becauseHElives
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Itty-Bitty Girl good to have you back,
Yeshua's only politics was the Kingdom of Yahweh,
what the rulers of this world did or do is no concern to Him or those that serve Him.
there are no American's, German's, African's, Russian's , Canadian's... what ever in Yahweh's Kingdom...
in His kingdom there is only His Law, the Law of Love, Love Him and Others as you love yourself...
I don't have to worry about what the politic of this world do, I really don't care, I am going to do what is right in Yahweh's sight!
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Strive to enter in at the strait gate:for many, I say unto you will seek to enter in, and shall not be able. ( Luke 13:24 )
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Itty-Bitty Girl
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I haven’t been here a long while. When I found that many others did not share a couple of my religious beliefs and a few of my political beliefs, I stopped posting; which is not really a good reason to stop posting. While I stopped posting on this message board I looked into the religious left because the group presented itself as the antidote to the religious right, but I found that they were doing the very same thing that they criticized the religious right for doing, that is: mixing religion and politics.
Is there any such thing as the politics of Jesus? If so, then what are His politics?
And are His politics, if there is any, the way that Jesus Himself tells us who to vote for?
Do religion and politics really mix in the New Testament, or is there a line that is drawn in stone that divided the two from ever crossing into each other?
I ask this because I read a book called “The Politics of Jesus: Rediscovering the True Revolutionary Teachings of Jesus' Teachings and How They Have Been Corrupted” by Obery Hendricks, and I was disappointed because the book was nothing but liberal Christianity packaged as something divine. Conservative Christianity could be nothing more than politics as usual packaged as something divine as well.
Any one willing to take a swing at this one?
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