|
Author
|
Topic: If love never fails
|
jdale1972
Community Member
Member # 6403
|
posted
I want to thank you guys for giving me some answers to my questions. Thank you for the kind handling and welcomed approach to my questions. I pray that Jesus Christ search the length, depth, hieght, and width of our hearts putting all things under His dominion. That we may have a song of praise in our mouth proclaiming the great joy and gladness of our Lords judgement. May the Word that brought us Life spring up in us and give Life to creation as Christ is brought forth in you and me.
Posts: 7 | From: california | Registered: Feb 2007
| IP: Logged | 
|
|
Eden
unregistered
|
posted
The beauty of this Jesus plan was, that yes, it would generate only a certain number of sons and daughters for the Family of God, but the other very good thing was that this Jesus plan also dealt with paying the penalty of sins for all the world.
So in a way, through the Jesus plan, God forgave everyone their sins because Jesus's death paid 100% for everyone's sins, and God got a certain amount of sons and daughters out of the Jesus plan...quite a Plan.
Be blessed,
Eden
IP: Logged |
|
|
Eden
unregistered
|
posted
Hi, jdale1972, you said:
I'm a new christian (the last 6 months) and have many questions. While reading through the site I've noticed alot of talk about faith with an equal amount of views. My question is doesn’t faith come from Jesus Christ?
Eden here:
In our time, faith comes from hearing, seeing, or experiencing the Word of God, so only those who HEAR through sermon from someone or SEE by reading or on TV, these people get saved. People who are going to Nordstrom or a night club do not get saved there (assuming that nobody tells them about Jesus in Nordstrom of the nightclub) but faith comes by hearing the Word of God SOMEWHERE. Presumably, jdale1972, you were saved by hearing the Word of God somewhere?
jdale1972, you continued:
I also have a question about choosing to believe or not. How could I have believed if I didn't know Him and once He revealed Himself to me how could I not believe?
Eden here:
In most cases, it wasn’t a miraculous revelation of Jesus Christ that saved people but a hearing of the Word of God, often OVER A LONG PERIOD OF TIME.
In my personal case, I began to read the New Testament but it still took me 7 years later before I was saved. It’s apparently PRIDE IN SELF that makes it hard for a sinner to admit that he is a sinner, as in, “hey, man, I’ll die for my OWN sins, okay?” and whether Jesus could have risen from the dead.
And then there is Satan and his wicked angels, doing what THEY can do discourage ANYONE who even gets CLOSE TO A BIBLE from reading it:
Luke 8
5 A sower went out to sow his seed: and as he sowed, some fell by the way side; and it was trodden down, and the fowls of the air devoured it.
6 And some fell upon a rock; and as soon as it was sprung up, it withered away, because it lacked moisture.
7 And some fell among thorns; and the thorns sprang up with it, and choked it.
8 And other fell on good ground, and sprang up, and bare fruit an hundredfold. And when he had said these things, he cried, He that hath ears to hear, let him hear.
9 And his disciples asked him, saying, What might this parable be?
10 And he said, Unto you it is given to know the mysteries of the kingdom of God: but to others in parables; that seeing they might not see, and hearing they might not understand.
11 Now the parable is this: The seed is the word of God.
12 Those by the way side are they that hear; then comes the devil and takes away the word out of their hearts, lest they should believe and be saved..
jdale1972 continued:
I guess the true question that’s on my heart is if God so loved the world and Jesus Christ is the Savior of the whole creation and Love never fails, why has God’s love through Jesus Christ failed to save so much of His creation?
Eden here:
These are the rest of the people in the same parable:
Luke 8
11 Now the parable is this: The seed is the word of God.
12 Those by the way side are they that hear; then cometh the devil, and taketh away the word out of their hearts, lest they should believe and be saved.
13 They on the rock are they, which, when they hear, receive the word with joy; and these have no root, which for a while believe, and in time of temptation fall away.
14 And that which fell among thorns are they, which, when they have heard, go forth, and are choked with cares and riches and pleasures of this life, and bring no fruit to perfection.
15 But that on the good ground are they, which in an honest and good heart, having heard the word, keep it, and bring forth fruit with patience.
God’s love and Jesus’s love provided a way into salvation to whosoever and anyone who could respond to precious Jesus dying on the cross for anyone in the entire world.
Jesus is the Shepherd at the threshold of the door by which the sheep enter into the sheep-cote.
Both God and Jesus knew that this plan, of Jesus dying on the cross for men's sins and this plan of Jesus rising from the dead on the third day would only be able to attract a certain number of...sons and daughters, and maybe just the kind that God wanted to attract with this Jesus plan.
Therefore it is now up to those in the world to save themselves:
Acts 2:40
And with many other words did he {Peter} testify and exhort, saying, Save yourselves from this untoward generation.
Matthew 7:13
Enter in at the narrow gate: for wide is the gate and broad is the way that leads to destruction, and many there will be who go in thereat.
God wants sons and daughters but maybe He only has so much room up in heaven, or maybe a certain number of sons and daughters is enough for God's family. Because God must have known AHEAD OF TIME EXACTLY HOW MANY SONS AND DAUGHTERS the Jesus plan would generate.
Nice to meet you, Jdale1972.
Be blessed and saved everyone,
Eden
IP: Logged |
|
|
timspong
Advanced Member
Member # 5240
|
posted
quote:
Originally posted by jdale1972:
I'm a new christian (the last 6 months) and have many questions. While reading through the site I've noticed alot of talk about faith with an equal amount of views.My question is doesn,t faith come from Jesus Christ ? And if so can we then really lack it? I also have a question about choosing to believe or not. How could I have believed if I didn't know Him and once He revealed Himself to me how could I not believe? I guess the true question thats on my heart is if God so loved the world and Jesus Christ is the Saviour of the whole creation and Love never fails, why has Gods love through Jesus Christ failed to save so much of His creation?
Firstly, welcome to the site and welcome to the body of Christ. I would encourage you to pray for discernment in all things. There are many ideas among Christians that have been formed by the human mind rather than Biblical and Spiritual revelation. Critique everything you hear and as the Berean Jews (Acts 17.11) search the scriptures to see how it lines up with the truth.
A couple of helpful hints for you:
1. Context is very important, when you hear a verse quoted, read the scripture to examine the context to ensure that it is being used correctly. Each verse is like a brick in the building of the writer’s argument. You must see the whole house before you can determine the context of the brick.
2. The bible rarely needs interpretation. It says what it means and means what it says. If it didn’t then it could mean absolutely anything. Many “spiritualize” the text to make it line up with their suppositions rather than reading what the actual text says.
Remember as Christians we should endeavor to be obedient to the will of God and we learn to discover his will by spiritual revelation by the Holy Spirit and by familiarity with His character as revealed by the Holy Spirit. So if you study the bible and do what it says you are well on your way to aligning yourself to the will of God.
Sorry about the “off-topic” intro, but I thought it was prudent to share it with you. This is because you questions cut to the core of a Christian debate that has continued since the reformation in the 1500’s. For further information on this particular debate the following link will give you an unbiased overview.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_Calvinist-Arminian_Debate
Basically there are two main schools of Christian thought with regard to your questions: Personally I am from the reformed school of thought which is more towards the Calvinist side of the debate. I am sure others here will give you the Arminian view (& the modern “new age” evangelical view as well).
Let me simplify what you are asking:
1. Were does faith come from and are we able to achieve it though our own effort?
2. If faith comes from God, how can we lack it?
3. How can I believe without knowing Christ?
4. Once I know Christ how can I not believe in him?
5. God (love) never fails so why isn’t everyone saved?
1. We are dead in Spirit since the fall of Adam and are unable to make a free will choice to seek God. God seeks whoever he chooses to bring them into a saving relationship with Christ.
John 6.65 “no one can come to me unless the Father has enabled him”
On our own all we can achieve is fleshly idolatry born of desire. God give us the ability to have a humble loving relationship with His son.
I don’t know about you, but when I was saved God ordained a series of event and people in my life that drew me to Christ. I was so far away and it was like he sucked my whole life towards Christ like a massive vacuum cleaner. Even though I made the choice to follow Christ, ultimately that choice was pre-ordained from God.
2. Faith comes from God, however, our nature doesn’t. We still have our old nature that we have to force into obedience to the spirit born of faith. Sometimes that old nature (& carnal reasoning) can be so “loud” that our spirit can get drowned out. Once we get our carnal nature under control the spirit becomes more powerful to subdue it. You may ask why did God not also give us a new nature. I think the effort of overcoming our old sinful nature actually helps to mature us and keep us humble. I know it does for me.
Romans 8.9 You, however, are controlled not by the sinful nature but by the Spirit, if the Spirit of God lives in you.
3. You can’t actually believe in what you don’t know. Scripture tells us that you get to know Christ by hearing the Word (or Good news). God will ensure that those he wants to save will get to hear the Word. Remember that most people are saved before they have very much knowledge of the bible at all. I hardly knew any scripture before I became saved. However, it was enough that I could discern the light of Christ.
4. Not everyone is drawn by God towards Christ. In mans fallen state satan has blinded them from seeing him as their savior. However those God chooses to see will definitely become saved.
2 Co 4:44 whose minds the god of this age has blinded, who do not believe, lest the light of the gospel of the glory of Christ, who is the image of God, should shine on them.
Romans 8.30 And those he predestined, he also called; those he called he also justified; those he justified, he also glorified. I.e. EVERYONE he chooses will come to Christ and believe and they will also be redeemed and saved.
2Peter 3.9 …He is patient with you, not wanting anyone (any of his elect) to perish, but everyone (of his elect) to come to repentance. (parenthesis mine)
This is one of the misused verses in the bible. Remember context; Peter is talking to and about the brethren i.e. the elect (see verse 1 of that chapter).
5. To answer this you need to understand Romans 9 in its entirety. It is perfectly clear although many Christians don’t like what it says as it goes against the grain of their presuppositions. I won’t lead you at all but let the text speak for itself.
Sorry about the length, but hopefully you will manage to read it. Sorry I ended up being bias towards what I believe as it would have been a huge post if I tried to give all the points of veiw. However, I am sure others here will respond with other points of view.
--------------------
Yours in Christ
Timothy Michael Spong
Posts: 146 | From: Lagos, Nigeria | Registered: Nov 2005
| IP: Logged |
|
|
TEXASGRANDMA
Advanced Member
Member # 847
|
posted
Faith comes from hearing the Word of God, the Bible, this is what we learn from Hebrews. The Holy Spirit convicts us of our need for salvation and then we have free choice to accept or to refuse. This is why all will not be saved. Some refuse the gift. I am so happy to hear that you have become a Christian. Find you a good Bible based Church and get into Sunday School and Bible Study. Being a Christian is a journey that we take every day of our lives. Growing in the Lord, requires learning God's Word and the best way to do so is in Sunday School and Bible Studies at Church.
God bless you.
betty
--------------------
Luk 21:28 And when these things begin to come to pass, then look up, and lift up your heads; for your redemption draweth nigh.
http://www.indieheaven.com/artists/mm (son-in-law)http://www.myspace.com/mireles
Posts: 4985 | From: Washington State | Registered: Jan 2003
| IP: Logged |
|
|
jdale1972
Community Member
Member # 6403
|
posted
I'm a new christian (the last 6 months) and have many questions. While reading through the site I've noticed alot of talk about faith with an equal amount of views.My question is doesn,t faith come from Jesus Christ ? And if so can we then really lack it? I also have a question about choosing to believe or not. How could I have believed if I didn't know Him and once He revealed Himself to me how could I not believe? I guess the true question thats on my heart is if God so loved the world and Jesus Christ is the Saviour of the whole creation and Love never fails, why has Gods love through Jesus Christ failed to save so much of His creation?
Posts: 7 | From: california | Registered: Feb 2007
| IP: Logged |
|
|
|
Printer-friendly view of this topic
