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Topic: for unbelievers and those who know them
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studious
Community Member
Member # 5867
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posted
"Pride goeth before destruction and a haughty spirit before a fall."
Posts: 15 | From: Indiana | Registered: Jun 2006
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ahar
Advanced Member
Member # 5810
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posted
quote:
Originally posted by ahar:
[QUOTE]Originally posted by ahar:
[qb] [QUOTE]Originally posted by Mephisto:
[qb] To be absolutely frank, I'm disgusted with most. They certainly give Christians a bad name, but since most Christians seem to agree with them, it's not as if it's just one bad minority group or sect.
It's a universal truth that those that shout loudest are heard most, and the extent of their views are not always supported by the majority. Also, I see from your profile you live in the US - there is a considerable range of opinion within christian churches in the US on a range of issues. You mentioned homosexuality, so I'll use that as an example - views range from the evangelical 'christian conservatives' (it's an absolute sin, and gay marriage must be banned) to the 'liberal' Anglican diosces (groups of churches in an area) in the US that has been ordaining openly and happily gay bishops.
The words in the bible do teach that homosexual acts are a sin, but so is lying, cheating, stealing and a host of other acts. It's up to the individual which they focus on and the way in which they make their voice heard. I don't see many protests about the legality of prostitution in some states, or licences given to swingers clubs yet these are sins as well.
We're taught as Christians go go out and give a good example in the world - sometimes, we (especially me) don't always do a good job and I think that contributes significantly to why people find it hard to believe in Jesus
EDIT - sorry about the duplicate posts admins, I've worked out how to delete them now ![[Smile]](smile.gif)
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Cheers
Andy
Posts: 290 | From: UK | Registered: Jun 2006
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Mephisto
unregistered
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posted
quote:
Originally posted by TEXASGRANDMA:
A Christian is not suppose to hate people. There is a difference betwen a Christian and a person who proclaims to be a Christian. We are to hate sin and love the sinner.
Fair enough. It's akin to the difference between a Satanist and pseudo-Satanists.
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TEXASGRANDMA
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Member # 847
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posted
A Christian is not suppose to hate people. There is a difference betwen a Christian and a person who proclaims to be a Christian. We are to hate sin and love the sinner.
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Luk 21:28 And when these things begin to come to pass, then look up, and lift up your heads; for your redemption draweth nigh.
http://www.indieheaven.com/artists/mm (son-in-law)http://www.myspace.com/mireles
Posts: 4985 | From: Washington State | Registered: Jan 2003
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Mephisto
unregistered
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posted
quote:
Originally posted by McGuffin:
quote:
Originally posted by Mephisto:
It's rather hard to ignore a bloody history of inquisitions, torture, prejudice, intolerance, religious wars, crusades, feudalism, and serfdom, I suppose.
None of that has anything to do with Christianity as a philosophy/religion. Christ preached universal love for all people. Evil men will find any excuse or justification to practice evil.
As an institution, I digress. It's what it brought to the world during the Dark Ages.
If that was how the world existed during Christian theocracy, why would we want to repeat it? I know plenty of Christians who are intolerant and ignorant of the world around them. They use the Bible to justify hating people based on their sexual lives, as if it's their business to get involved. To be absolutely frank, I'm disgusted with most. They certainly give Christians a bad name, but since most Christians seem to agree with them, it's not as if it's just one bad minority group or sect.
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McGuffin
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Member # 5806
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posted
quote:
Originally posted by Mephisto:
It's rather hard to ignore a bloody history of inquisitions, torture, prejudice, intolerance, religious wars, crusades, feudalism, and serfdom, I suppose.
None of that has anything to do with Christianity as a philosophy/religion. Christ preached universal love for all people. Evil men will find any excuse or justification to practice evil.
Posts: 6 | Registered: Jun 2006
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TEXASGRANDMA
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Member # 847
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posted
I cannot convince someone to believe in GOd. That is the job of the Holy Spirit. I can only pray for you. I can tell you that God is real and I do have a relationship with Him. You can choose to believe or choose not to. The reality is that your choice will determine where you spent eternity.
betty
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Luk 21:28 And when these things begin to come to pass, then look up, and lift up your heads; for your redemption draweth nigh.
http://www.indieheaven.com/artists/mm (son-in-law)http://www.myspace.com/mireles
Posts: 4985 | From: Washington State | Registered: Jan 2003
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Mephisto
unregistered
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posted
I don't accept Christianity because I see no reason to. I'm perfectly content to live my life as I have been doing: to learn and to cooperate with those who wish to cooperate with me in turn.
As someone mentioned, why pick Christianity out of a myriad of religions? Some might do that, I simply am one of those people who has no interest in religion.
It's rather hard to ignore a bloody history of inquisitions, torture, prejudice, intolerance, religious wars, crusades, feudalism, and serfdom, I suppose.
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Disquisitive
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Member # 5829
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posted
quote:
Originally posted by TEXASGRANDMA:
My point is that when you have a relationship with God, there is no guess work. God reaffirms His existance every day in my heart. I don't have to have doubts if God is the right choice because His Words are written on my heart. Have you ever sought out a relationship with God? Have you talk to God and given Him a chance to talk to you? Search His Word, the Bible and pray for guidance and God will answer you.
betty
People of other religions claim the exact same thing, or close to it, however - I myself have had "spiritual" experiences while praying to the Christian God and while meditating upon a Buddhist subject. Furthermore, people in Finland during the dark ages thought that their homes were gaurded by gnomelike creatures called Haltija - I'm sure there were times when they could feel the Haltija in their hearts.
Posts: 19 | From: Oklahoma | Registered: Jun 2006
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TEXASGRANDMA
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Member # 847
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posted
My point is that when you have a relationship with God, there is no guess work. God reaffirms His existance every day in my heart. I don't have to have doubts if God is the right choice because His Words are written on my heart. Have you ever sought out a relationship with God? Have you talk to God and given Him a chance to talk to you? Search His Word, the Bible and pray for guidance and God will answer you.
betty
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Luk 21:28 And when these things begin to come to pass, then look up, and lift up your heads; for your redemption draweth nigh.
http://www.indieheaven.com/artists/mm (son-in-law)http://www.myspace.com/mireles
Posts: 4985 | From: Washington State | Registered: Jan 2003
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McGuffin
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posted
What if I devote my life to Jesus and it turns out that the true God was Krishna? Then I spend eternity trapped between two mountains having my insides pecked out by buzzards. Do you see the point I'm trying to make here?
Posts: 6 | Registered: Jun 2006
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TEXASGRANDMA
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posted
There are two ways to know God. There is knowledge from knowing that God exist and there is knowledge of having a personal relationship with God. My son considered himself an agnostic for several years. My husband said to him if you live for Christ and find out that He is not God, you have lost nothing. You would have just lived a life seeking to good and not evil. But on the other hand if you reject God and He is real, you will spend eternity in hell and have everything to lose. There is an old Gospel song that says “If God is dead, who’s this living in my soul?” Christians are not depending on hoping that God is real. We have a personal relationship with God. We can feel him daily in our walk with Him. He makes Himself real to us in countless ways. A personal relationship with God is not placing your hope in a cause and hoping at the end it will work out. It is a relationship that is reaffirmed every day by a loving God that loved us so much He sent His Son to die for us. I challenge you today to reach out to Jesus, He will not fail you. I believe that you are at this board because a part of you realizes that you do need Jesus and that part is calling out for help. I beseech you in love, to give your life to Jesus before it is too late. Jesus is coming back His Church, soon.
Betty
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Luk 21:28 And when these things begin to come to pass, then look up, and lift up your heads; for your redemption draweth nigh.
http://www.indieheaven.com/artists/mm (son-in-law)http://www.myspace.com/mireles
Posts: 4985 | From: Washington State | Registered: Jan 2003
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McGuffin
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Member # 5806
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posted
quote:
Originally posted by nan29:
I'm curious McGuffin, since you say you lean more towards eastern religions, what made you read a Christian message board? Is it curiosity or do you also follow some of Christianity's teachings, or is there another reason?
Like I said:
quote:
I tremendously admire the words of Christ and use them as a guideline for behavior and morality in my life.
quote:
Some may not believe in the law of gravity, and may feel they have "evidence" to back up their belief. However, gravity exists whether they believe in it or not. The truth is, God is knowable.
The difference is that gravity is, scientifically, both testable and measurable.
Posts: 6 | Registered: Jun 2006
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Eduardo Grequi
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Member # 3984
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posted
WHY IS IT HARD FOR PEOPLE TO ACCEPT JESIS?
TO GENERRALIZE IT- IT HAS TO BE LACK OF FAITH. EVEN THE BOOK OF HEBREWS SAYS THAT IF ONE WANTS TO APPROACH GOD- HE MUST HAVE FAITH. TODAY IN THIS WORLD, PEOPLE ARE EDUCATED THAT THERE ARE NO ABSOLUTES. ESPECIALLY HERE IN THE USA. WE DO NOT TEACH TRUST, WE TEACH DIVORCE, WE DO NOT TEACH LONGSUFFERING, WE TEACH GET ALL YOU CAN IN ANYWAY YOU CAN DO IT. WE TEACH SELF-GRATIFICATION, SELF-CONFIDENCE, SELF-RELIANCE INSTEAD OF REALYING ON THE PROVIDENCE OF GOD.
WHEN IT IS ALL SAID AND DONE- IT IS WRONG TO SHED INNOCENT BLOOD, TO LIE, TO SCOUNDREL, TO RAPE...ETC
IN MAJORIT OF THESE RELIGIONS TODAY, IT IS ABOUT MAN WORKING HIS WAY FOR PENTANCE AND ULTIMATELY THE ABODE OF PARADISE. TO BECOME A GOD OR GODS HANDIMAN
BECAUSE WE AS HUMANS, LACK ASSURITY FOR THE WRITTEN RECORD - THE BIBLE, WE CAN EASILY JUMP IN THE BOAT OF THE PLURALISTIC BANDWAGON, AND LIVE ASIDE OF PEOPLE WITH DIFFERENT BELIEFS. EVEN IF THERE ARE QUESTIONABLE MORAL ISSUES.
WE ARE MORE EAGER TO TURN A BLINDS EYE FROM ABSOLUTES BECAUSE THIS IS THE SOCIETY OF INFORMATIONAL AGE AND EVERYTHING IS MIXED- IT IS FAR EASIER FOR PEOLE TO REJECT THE SIMPLE TASK OF HAVING A CHILD LIKE FAITH IN A SAVIOUR WHO SHOULD SO MUCH LOVE, PROOF, AND ASSURANCE.
WHEN I TALK ABOUT JESUS WITH PEOPLE WHO WOULD RATHER KILL A CHRISTIAN OR A JEW, I APPROACH THIS ISSUE AS A MATTER OF FACT.
AFTER ALL THE WRITTEN WORD SPEAKS FOR ITS SELF!!
I CHOOSE JESUS OVER ALL OTHERS, JESUS IS THE JEWISH MESSIAH THAT WAS PROPHESIED IN THE OLD TESTAMENT.
Posts: 771 | From: Belvidere, IL | Registered: Oct 2004
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KnowHim
Admin
Member # 1
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posted
Those who say that there are no absolutes are often very adamant about their belief. If they say that they are absolutely sure, then they are wrong because their own statement is an absolute. If they are not 100 percent sure, then there is a chance that they are wrong and they are risking their eternal salvation by trusting in a wrong belief. God tells us that there is an objective, absolute truth that is not subject to man’s interpretations or whims, on which we can base our eternity. That truth is the Word of God (John 17:7).
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Posts: 3276 | From: Charlestown, IN | Registered: Jun 2002
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KnowHim
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It is amazing how it’s human nature to assume that because we believe or don’t believe something, that makes it true. Some may not believe in the law of gravity, and may feel they have "evidence" to back up their belief. However, gravity exists whether they believe in it or not. The truth is, God is knowable. Jesus testified, "And this is life eternal, that they might know you the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom you have sent" (John 17:3). We not only have the testimony of the Scriptures to tell us this, but we have the testimony of multitudes of Christians who know the Lord personally. It is more truthful to say, "I don’t want to know God." Sinful man runs from Him as did Adam in the garden of Eden.
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Posts: 3276 | From: Charlestown, IN | Registered: Jun 2002
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nan29
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Member # 5761
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posted
I'm curious McGuffin, since you say you lean more towards eastern religions, what made you read a Christian message board? Is it curiosity or do you also follow some of Christianity's teachings, or is there another reason?
Posts: 38 | From: New York | Registered: May 2006
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McGuffin
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Member # 5806
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posted
Excellent post, TB.
I suppose the objective of any religion then, is to reconcile man, who is flawed, with whatever is perceived to be divine. I'm an agnostic (meaning that I don't believe that man can ever really and truly KNOW the origin of the universe or whether there is a God or not) and as such, I don't suscribe to any particular God or Gods. It seems to me, that man is too limited in sense and intellect to be able to discover all truths. Which is why I can't see myself adhering to a religion largely based in the supernatural. This leads me to focus on what I can see and understand. Hence my inclination for Eastern religion which is based more on Earthly matters and what it means to be a human being who suffers.
Posts: 6 | Registered: Jun 2006
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TB125
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Member # 2450
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posted
McGuffin makes a good point in his statement
quote:
But the major eastern religions (ie. Buddhism, Daoism, Hinduism) center less around the idea of a dichotomous universe (one divided by good and evil) and more around trying to rid oneself of suffering by trying to see the singularity of all things.
It might help us all to recognize that sin is one's moral failure (one's inability to be as good and as loving and as righteous as one's religion or philosophy of life teaches that he/she should be), and suffering is one's physical failure (the failure of one's body to function in perfect harmony with itself), and war is the result of the failure of groups of people in national and ethnic bodies to live in peace with their neighbors (who are probably different from them).
Each of these failures, irregardless of what we call them (sin, suffering, war, or whatever) causes each of us and all of us to be separated from God by whom and for whom we were created.
The solution to any and all of these failures, the means of restoring any "singularity" of personal union with God is to be found only in Jesus, who said quote:
I am the way and the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me.
(John 14:6)
The reason this "singularity" can only be received through Jesus is because He is the only one who died and rose from the grave to make it possible by paying God's price for anyone's reunion with Him.
Our discussions of evangelism, apologetics, various religions, our personal opinions regarding our personal and collective failures should keep this divine "TRUTH" clearly in mind. Unless we do, we only add to the confusion that is troubling many individuals in the world. I hope that this helps in these discussions.
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Bob
Posts: 449 | From: Rockford Illinois | Registered: Nov 2003
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McGuffin
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Member # 5806
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posted
If the concept of sin was universal then Christianity would likely be the most appealing option. But not all cultures ascribe to it. Many of the western religions are fixated on receiving absolution from all the wrong doing one commits in life. But the major eastern religions (ie. Buddhism, Daoism, Hinduism) center less around the idea of a dichotomous universe (one divided by good and evil) and more around trying to rid oneself of suffering by trying to see the singularity of all things.
This is another reason why many may find it difficult to relate to the message of Christianity.
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Kindgo
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Member # 2
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posted
Nice to meer you Mcguffin , welcome to the CHRISTIAN BBS ![[hug]](graemlins/hug.gif)
"Why is Christianity better than other religions?"
In all major religions, the followers strive to rid themselves of sin through various practices. They may pray in a prescribed way, do various good works, deny themselves legitimate sexual pleasure, follow dietary restrictions, lie on beds of nails, etc.
The uniqueness of Jesus is shown in His statement, "The Son of Man has power on earth to forgive sins.
" No other religious leader has ever made this claim. Jesus Christ alone can wash away every sin anyone has ever committed, be-cause of what He did on the cross.
By paying the penalty for our sin, He can release us from the torture of guilt. We cannot do anything in the way of religious works to wash away our sins. Forgiveness is a free gift of God (Ephesians 2:8,9).
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God bless,
Kindgo
Inside the will of God there is no failure. Outside the will of God there is no success.
Posts: 4320 | From: Sunny Florida | Registered: Jun 2002
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McGuffin
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Member # 5806
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posted
quote:
I want to know why people find it hard to believe in Jesus.
We find it difficult for the same reason you find it hard to believe in Vishnu (Hinduism). We see Christianity as just another religion and ALL religions are based in faith. I can't speak for every non-believer, but personally I can't invest in faith or belief as methods of deducing truth since both are inherently fallible. One could have faith in anything at all. Faith will not make that thing true.
Why don't I surrender myself to Jesus when times are hard? Because there are any number of 'Gods' I could turn to. Why single out Christianity? What does Christianity have in the way of factual evidence that any other religion does not?
I don't want any of you to get the impression that I am anti-religion or anti-christian. I am not. I tremendously admire the words of Christ and use them as a guideline for behavior and morality in my life. But I also utilize the teachings of others, such as the Buddha in trying to find the right path to be the best possible human being I can be. I really do think that the teachings of Jesus and the Buddha are the most articulate of all the religions which attempt to uplift us in our struggle with the human condition.
I hope I've helped you understand the mindset of the non-believer a little bit. Please feel free to ask any questions.
Take Care
McGuffin
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KnowHim
Admin
Member # 1
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posted
quote:
Originally posted by dondi:
How could it be so easy as saying a small prayer declaring that we are a sinner and want Jesus as our leader in life?
Well first of all I don't think that is what you do when you are truly born-again. If you just say a small prayer and declare you are a sinner, does not mean you have been born-again. Being born again changes ones life and if you are truly born-again, then Jesus Christ becomes number one in your life. There is no easy push button tradition you can do to become born-again. You must give your life to Jesus Christ. When you do this you will know because it will comsume your life.
That is why people don't want to get saved, because they love their sin and don't want to give it up.
May be listening to the below will help you understand:
The New Birth - Part 1 - Click Here to listen
The New Birth - Part 2 - Click Here to listen.
You can also read the below, which is very good:
True and False Conversion
Telling people to say a prayer only creates false converts.
He who has My commandments and keeps them, it is he who loves Me. And he who loves Me will be loved by My Father, and I will love him and manifest Myself to him. - John 14:21
And ye shall seek me, and find me, when ye shall search for me with all your heart. Jeremiah 29:13 (KJV)
Hebrews 11:6 (NKJV)
But without faith it is impossible to please Him, for he who comes to God must believe that He is, and that He is a rewarder of those who diligently seek Him.
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Posts: 3276 | From: Charlestown, IN | Registered: Jun 2002
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dondi
Advanced Member
Member # 4966
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posted
Why is it hard for people to accept Jesus? Simple, it is way to easy for us to understand. Think about it for a sec.. We work hard all our life to obtain a little monetary gain right? We work hard to bring our house to order, whether it be in looks or size. We take our appearance in check everday before we go out into the world. Why then would it be so easy to enter the great gates of Heaven. How could it be so easy as saying a small prayer declaring that we are a sinner and want Jesus as our leader in life?
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Behold, I stand at the door and knock: if any man hear My voice, and open the door, I will come in to him, and sup with him, and him with Me. Rev. 3:20
Posts: 33 | From: Ceres,Ca | Registered: Aug 2005
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Kindgo
Advanced Member
Member # 2
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posted
Greetings Nan, ![[Kiss]](graemlins/Kiss.gif)
Since God planned for us to have peace and the abundant life right now, why are most people not having this experience?
The Bible Says:
"...we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ." Romans 5:1
"For God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him should not perish but have everlasting life." John 3:16
"...I have come that they my have life and that they may have it more abundantly." John 10:10b
The Problem is: Separation from God.
The Bible Says:
"For all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God."
"For the wages of sin is death, but the gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus or Lord." Romans 6:23
God created us in His own image to have an abundant life, but He did not make us a robots to automatically love and obey Him. He gave us a will and a freedom of choice.
We choose to disobey God and go our own way. We make this choice daily, the results are separation from God !
Our attempts to close this separation don't work.
The Bible Says:
"There is a way that seems right to man, but in the end it leads to death." Proverbs 14:12
"But your iniquities have separated you from God; and your sins have hidden His face from you, so that He will not hear." Isaiah 59:2
Through the ages, individuals have tried to bridge the gap without success by doing many things like: church membership, baptism, good morals, and doing good deeds. It is clear there is only one solution.
God's Remedy: The Cross.
The Bible Says:
"....God is on one side and all the people are on the other side, and Christ Jesus, Himself man, is between them to bring them together . . . " 1 Timothy 2:5
"For Christ also has suffered once for sins, the just for the unjust, that He might bring us to God"....Peter 3:18a
"But God demonstrates His own love for us in this: While we were still sinners Christ dies for us." Romans 5:8
Jesus is the only answer to our problem. He died on the cross and rose from the grave, paying the penalty for our sins and closing that gap that is between God and us.
Your Response Must be:Trust Christ to Save Your Life.
The Bible Says:
"Behold, I stand at the door and knock. If anyone hears my voice and opens the door, I will come in to him and dine with him, and he will with Me." Revelation 3:20
"....if you confess with your mouth Jesus is Lord, and believe in your heart that God raised Him from the dead, you will be saved." Romans 10:9
If your not saved...
Is there any reason why you cannot ask Jesus into your life right now?
How to receive Jesus Now
1. Admit you have a need (I am a sinner).
2. Be willing to turn away from your sin. (repent)
3. Believe that Jesus Christ died for you on the cross and rose from the grave.
4. Through prayer, invite Jesus to come into your life so you will no longer be separated from Him, but have eternal life with Him as your Savior and Lord.
What to Pray
Dear Lord Jesus, I know I am a sinner and need your forgiveness. I believe that You died for my sins. I want to turn from my sins. I now invite you to come into my heart and life. I want to trust and follow you as Lord and Savior. In Jesus' name I pray this, Amen.
If anyone prays this prayer please let me know, I would like to help you get started on your walk of faith. ![[clap2]](graemlins/clap2.gif)
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God bless,
Kindgo
Inside the will of God there is no failure. Outside the will of God there is no success.
Posts: 4320 | From: Sunny Florida | Registered: Jun 2002
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nan29
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Member # 5761
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posted
I want to know why people find it hard to believe in Jesus. I would mention to people who have problems to turn to Jesus but many won't. I don't want to seem pushy but I wonder why people find it hard to believe. Why not give it a chance and surrender to Him and see what happens?
Posts: 38 | From: New York | Registered: May 2006
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