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Topic: Just a question, not mean't to offend.
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epouraniois
unregistered
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posted
The Deluge, a fact? Dr. C. L. Woolley exhibited in the British Museum a diagram of his excavation in Ur of the Chaldees where he showed a deposit, varying from eight to eleven feet in thickness which intervened between one great civilization and another, and said `The flood which deposited it must have been of a magnitude unparalleled in local history', and Dr. Stephen Langdon, Professor of Assyriology at Oxford said, `We had obtained confirmation of the Deluge of Genesis, there is no doubt about it now'.
YOU CAN SEE the Black Obelisk which mentions by name `Jehu the son of Omri', a king anointed by
Elijah. YOU CAN SEE the Cylinder inscribed at the bidding of Sennacherib in which he speaks of Hezekiah, shut up in his royal city Jerusalem like a caged bird. YOU CAN SEE the Moabite Stone which confirms the record of 2 Kings 1 to 3. YOU CAN SEE the name `Belshazzar' of Daniel 5 written on a Cylinder. YOU CAN SEE the stone pillar upon which Amraphel of Genesis 14 engraved his code of laws. Coming to the New Testament, YOU CAN READ the inscriptions found in Thessalonica and in Ephesus, which prove the accuracy of Luke as an historian.
Like the man whose eyes had been opened, who had been born blind, I am compelled to say `One thing I know, whereas I was blind, now I see'. If I were surrounded by a group of blind men who seriously challenged the existence of light and colour, I should pity them, but should not waver in my own conviction, so, if you should say to me `I do not see', I should pity your blindness, but I should
not admit that your inability to see, was any reason that I should doubt the evidence of my own sense of sight.
The uncompromising testimony of the Lord Jesus Christ to the truth of the Old Testament Scriptures. This is a study in itself. His endorsement keeps pace with His whole life and witness. From the moment of His birth at Bethlehem, which fulfilled a prophecy written centuries before, to the death of the cross, with all its peculiar associations, His whole life was one continuous exposition and endorsement of what had been written.
The chances that ten prophetic utterances should all be fulfilled in one person are so remote as to be practically impossible. There are more than one hundred prophecies fulfilled in the person of Christ, and the testimony of fulfilled prophecy is overwhelming.
Just as all chemistry is governed by number, so the distribution of words is governed by number, in the
Scriptures. This is a study which cannot be explained here, but is open to the fullest investigation. There are several books on the subject obtainable at Libraries and Booksellers.
Just as in `Nature' we see structure, whether in crystal, leaf or vertebrate, so the whole Bible and its sub-divisions exhibit to the searcher a most marvellous structure, linking the opening chapters of Genesis with the closing chapters of Revelation, underline the distribution of key words throughout the book, and being indeed characteristic of every chapter.
Speaking of the risen Christ Jesus, the apostle writes in the spring of 57 AD from Ephesus, saying that many are still alive who saw the risen Lord and Saviour after the crucifixion:
1Co 15:5 And that he was seen of Cephas, then of the twelve:
1Co 15:6 After that, he was seen of above five hundred brethren at once; of whom the greater part remain unto this present, but some are fallen asleep (died).
1Co 15:14 And if Christ be not risen, then is our preaching vain, and your faith is also vain.
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Livnonfaith
First Post
Member # 5773
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posted
quote:
Tell me what is it that makes you believe, what is your revelation that makes you seek out God. That makes you seek out Jesus. That makes you believe that the only road, path, and entrance to heaven and to God is acheieved by believing in Jesus??
All of the knowledge in the world cannot lead to faith.
Paul, the man who wrote most of the New Testament, started out as a well-educated man. He knew the scriptures forwards and backwards, but He did not know God. That is why he did not recognize Jesus as the christ. Then, along the road to Damascus, on his way to persecute believers, Jesus appeared to Paul, and Paul was never the same again. Face to face with God himself, there was no argument, no questioning whose presence he was in.
Paul didn't seek God. God sought Paul. It is only an encounter with the One true God himself that will lead you to a saving faith in Jesus Christ as Lord and Savior. I pray, Karma, that God will speak to you and reveal Himself to you. You claim to have an open mind. Open your heart too, and let Him in. Human words cannot begin to describe how much He loves you- how much He delights in you.
Why do I believe? Because I know Him. He's not just someone I've read about in a book, but someone I talk to daily. He's my father, my counselor, my best friend. He is also Holy God who demands that I come to Him on His terms and not just try and make my own way. I am in the process of getting to know Him more- his love, his mercy, his grace, his passion. And the more I know him, the more I want to know Him.
As someone has already said, Christianity isn't about following rules, it's about having a relationship with our Creator.
God Bless,
Livn
Posts: 1 | From: Arkansas | Registered: May 2006
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WildB
Moderator
Member # 2917
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posted
quote:
Originally posted by Karma:
Actually I believe every christian claims to have heard God's voice. To tell you the honest truth... God probably hasn't verbally spoken to you. Now let me tell you this I have more spiritual knowledge than most christians will ever have or ever be able to obtain. You say you have to believe in God for him to speak to you. I tell you this... No you don't! Understand? God is father and creator to all who are on earth. To believe that he isn't is BS and maybe you should dust of your bible and read over it again. Since you want to throw it in my face here read this scripture and then go read your bible and tell me i'm a liar.... John 6:43-46 Isn't Jesus implying God is all of our Fathers because I really fail to see where he is saying that God is only the father of the christians! Don't try to make me look like a fool its wrong. You aren't God or any all powerful spiritual being so don't sit there on your pedastool trying to look down on the world and all of its inhabitants. And don't try to be smart and explain to me the differences of spirit and flesh. It seems like your flesh is taking over there with that comment! Repent.
Oh Karma, lol. But your type of spiritual knowledge is a chastisement of the soul.
Now go away.
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That is all.....
Posts: 8775 | From: USA, MICHIGAN | Registered: Mar 2004
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WKUHilltopper
Advanced Member
Member # 5472
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posted
quote:
Originally posted by Karma:
Okay heres a crazy thing! Christians almost all of them reject reincarnation they think its new age **** ! Well its not anywhere in the Bible that it says flat out or even in a riddle that it doesn't exist, that it can't happen or does happen or even will happen.
Christians don't believe in reincarnation because the Scriptures are clear. Man is appointed to die once and then judgment. It doesn't mention alot of other things, like specific examples of jet aircraft, big foot, etc. If it were important to the Gospel, it would. But I think God makes it clear there is no reincarnation. Otherwise, Christ's sacrifice would mean nothing.
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Im fustrated because christians cut everyone off at the knees with these assumptions and then all the rest of us who have questions are left in the dark or are persecuted for asking the question in the first place. Just like suicide where in the bible does it mention the exact word?? Why are we condemned to hell for it?
I'm not clear with your specific examples of persecution. The Scriptures don't specifically mention the term "suicide", but it makes it clear God gave us life and He reserves the right to decide when it's time life ends. I'm not sure if a person goes to Hell or not, but I wouldn't want to test the "theory" regardless.
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Sorry thats a question only God has an answer too and its tiring to hear people claim to have all this so called knowledge about God.
We only have knowledge of the will of God because of the Scriptures. The Scriptures tell us we have all we need. We can't possibly have all understanding of God. There's actually a notation in Revelation, when John was told to "seal up his writings" so it would not be revealed to us. We only know what God has told us.
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The truth is every single person is in the dark, every religion is in the dark. Because being separted from God(light) is hell(dark). No one has the right to tell anyone their wrong, because no one not even the atheist have physical evidence for the existence of God, am I wrong?
To some extent, that's right about single people being in the "dark". Without Christ and the Holy Spirit, this is true. Only God can grant us understanding of His will.
On the "no one has the right to tell anyone their wrong". Look at it this way. If I were to tell a person that robbing a bank is wrong and they will be punished for it when they're captured, is it wrong for me to advise this person of this truth? In my opinion, it's not wrong to tell a person who is in contradiction of the Scriptures, but the decision of the person to obey God is their decision. In the same light, I can tell a person if they don't repent of their sins and trust Jesus, then they'll face the wrath of God at judgment. I can't make them do it, it's a choice they have to make.
The idea of "atheist" is sorta of a strange term. I'm not sure there's really any such thing as an atheist. An atheist would have to have all knowledge of everything to be able to say "there's no God". And we know that no one has "all knowledge". We can't even really tell who shot JFK! So for a person to claim they're an "atheist" is a little bit presumptious.
From my personal experience, I know there's a God because there are so many scientific facts disclosed in the Scriptures way before Man discovered them. Because of this--this was when I started thinking "maybe there truly is a God, how come Man didn't know this stuff until recently?" I'll be glad to post some examples of these if you'd like. There's quite a few of them. Also the Scriptures indicate "creation is testimony of God".
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I'm sure you'll prove me wrong right? As for the bible its got some great moral values that we as a people all need to hear, but lets get real it really doesn't offer a great deal of spritual adivce, besides threating us to believe in Jesus or else!
I'm not going to try to prove you wrong, but only relate to you what the truth of the Scriptures reveal.
There's no threat to people in believing in Jesus or else. What the Scriptures relate to us that in order for us to be reconciled to God in His righteousness, we must repent and trust Jesus. You see, we're all sinners and fall short of the glory of God. But because loved the world so much, He had His only Son sacrificed on our behalf--so that we, who repented, turned from our sins and trusted Christ, would be deemed worthy for entrance into the Kingdom of God. In other words, He turned His wrath onto Jesus, for our sakes, and this is why Jesus is so worthy of all the Glory He is entitled. Because of what He did for everyone.
It's not a threat. It's just a reality. He can not be a righteous judge unless He holds people accountable for their sins--and the only way to escape this wrath is through Jesus. It's kinda like you wanting to walk across a busy interstate to go to an ice cream place. I would tell you if you do this, you'll get hit by a car and be splattered all over the place. You might perceive this as a "threat". But what I'm trying to convey to you is there's a real danger of you getting killed by doing so and I understand a vehicle traveling 70 mph can't just stop where it wants. The reality is, you'll get creamed by a car. Now whether or not you heed this advice is up to you. God is telling us that if we don't put our faith and trust in Jesus, then there are consequences--just like there are consequences of every decision we make in everyday life.
I hope this helps you some. I've tried not to be "grumpy" or "smart" in this.
Posts: 259 | From: KY | Registered: Feb 2006
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WKUHilltopper
Advanced Member
Member # 5472
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posted
quote:
Originally posted by Karma:
I have a question. So many christians claim they are spiritual beings, but! are scared to death of dabbling in that side of themselves. Scared of psychics, tarrot cards, pendulums, what christians consider immoral and devilish behavior... Its amazing to me what christians find immoral and wrong and perverse. I You could quote scriptures to me alllll day long, but i know them all.
Well, with all due respect, if you know all the scriptures as you claim, you would understand that dabbling in the occult, witchcraft, etc, is expressly forbidden by God. In fact, it's clear one will not enter the Kingdom who does so. (please don't take this as a kurt or "smart" response. It's not intended to be so).
It has nothing to do with closed mindedness. It's because I had an "open mind" that I became a believer. It's like jumping off a building trying to fly and breaking your leg. I could have an "open mind" and keep trying and breaking limbs. Regardless of how many times I try, I can not undo the truth of gravity. The same is true with God. Once you understand the truth, there's nothing else to grasp. What appears to be "closed mindedness" is actually the understanding and revealing of the truth of God.
By the way, no offense taken from your post. ![[Wink]](wink.gif)
Posts: 259 | From: KY | Registered: Feb 2006
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epouraniois
unregistered
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posted
What is it that makes Christians, the belief in Jesus, so much higher than everyone elses.
It is my understanding that a Christian is not higher than anyone else, in fact it is the opposite, a Christian is one who knows they are the lowest, takiing no pride in themselves, that they are in need of help, in need of a saviour, walking circumspectly, on bended knees, crying out to the living God, that we may know Him.
What is a Christian?
by STUART ALLEN
If this question was addressed to six people it is possible that six different answers would be given:
one might say he is a good living man, another that he is a member of a church or chapel, or that he is a
person who does charitable work in aiding needy people, and so on. Let us look at the word `Christian'
again, and suppose we pronounce it differently, calling it CHRISTian, it will remind us that such a person
has some relationship to Christ in the first place.
If we ask in what way, we shall be wise if we turn to His own divine statements and give them serious
consideration. The answer to our question is not to be found in the various opinions which come from the
human mind; these will only lead us into error and disillusionment. What more reasonable than that we
should turn to the `fountain head' Himself? Why did Christ come to this world of ours? These are His
own words:
` The Son of Man is come to seek and to save that which was lost' (Luke 19:10).
` I am come a light into the world, that whosoever believeth on Me should not abide in darkness. ... I
came not to judge the world, but to save the world' (John 12:46,47).
These words are surely clear. Christ came to dispel darkness and doubt and to give LIGHT. Christ
came not to condemn but to SAVE. This being so, it is obvious that there must be a fundamental need in
the human heart for enlightenment and salvation; but what is salvation? As you begin to consider this
please put from your mind all thoughts of churches, reformation, ordinances, baptism, whether infant or
adult, for in its essence the salvation which Christ spoke of has nothing to do with these things. Many
there are around us whose idea of salvation is that it results from a way of living, moral or religious, and
is intimately connected with some religious rite or ceremony. Multitudes have conceived their own
conditions of salvation or have accepted the conditions laid down by others and, having fulfilled these
requirements, they rest in the false security of self deception. They may have met the requirements of
men, but they have fallen short of the requirements of God.
In this leaflet we wish to avoid theological language and to use great plainness of speech so that all
who read can understand. The subject is so vastly important--actually there can be nothing more
important--that at all costs we must avoid having our minds clouded by human opinion. Consequently,
we shall turn away from men however good they may be and go direct to the teaching of the Lord Jesus
Christ.
From the verse already quoted (Luke 19:10) He has stated that the purpose of His coming was to
SAVE, and those to whom this work applies are described by Him as LOST. Let us add another
statement of His regarding this purpose:
` They that are whole have no need of the physician, but they that are sick: I came not to call the
righteous, but sinners to repentance' (Mark 2:17).
It is clear from these words that Christ's mission was not directed to good people but to the unworthy,
those whom He described as LOST and as SINNERS. Now this is not flattering to human nature, but
before you turn away from it, my dear reader, just ask yourself honestly whether, in spite of any good
behaviour which you strive after, perhaps these terms truthfully describe you? It is not a question of big
sinners or little sinners. One sin makes a sinner just as one lie makes a liar. Even if your self-control is
so strong that you never commit any act or speak any word that is wrong (which is improbable), what
about the inside--your thinking? Have you never indulged in sinful thoughts? Remember that of Christ
it is said:
` He knew all men, and needed not that any should testify of man: for He knew what was in man'
(John 2:24,25).
He sees inside and knows every thought, and while men may deceive one another with externals, there
is no deceiving Him. Apart from this, as one looks around and considers the present appalling condition
of world affairs with its mounting armaments and gigantic weapons of destruction, its terrible threat of
war, suffering and death, one would have thought that these things of themselves would prove that there
is something radically wrong with the human mind. There can be no doubt that salvation is a necessity
and it was for this express purpose that Christ came. A sinner needs a saviour whether he knows it or
not, but this saviour must be the one of God's providing, and the one He has provided is the Lord Jesus
Christ. Saving the lost is His business. He has never failed nor can He fail.
There are no exceptions in connection with sin and failing for `All have sinned, and come short of the
glory of God' (Rom. 3:23) therefore all need a Saviour and that includes YOU. Do not turn away because
this does not pat you on the back and flatter you. Do not indulge in wishful thinking, but be absolutely
honest with yourself in this matter. You can settle the question of your own salvation by answering the
following questions: Is the Lord Jesus Christ my personal Saviour? Do I as a sinner belong to Him?
Have I put my trust in Him and in Him alone? If the answers are `YES', you are saved, because you are
linked by simple faith with Him who is the only Saviour of mankind. If the answers are `NO', you are
lost and the final condition of the lost is one of condemnation and perishing eternally.
` For God so loved the world, that He gave His only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in Him
should not PERISH, but have everlasting LIFE' (John 3:16).
` I am come that they might have LIFE' (John 10:10).
` He that believeth on Him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already'
(John 3:18).
So, in all solemnity, it is a question of LIFE or DEATH and that eternally. To be linked with Christ
means life eternal for you; to be divorced from Him means eternal death. Note that salvation comes to
you from Him by the avenue of faith. You are not saved by faith itself--it is the object of faith, the Lord
Jesus Christ that saves. Your faith is merely the channel by which His salvation reaches you and becomes
your own possession. Faith, belief and trust mean the same thing. If you have faith in a man, you trust
him. If you trust him you have faith in him. If you have faith in the Lord Jesus Christ you have all that
God requires of a sinner in order to be saved.
It may be asked--is there no other way of salvation? In the words of Christ Himself the answer is
NO.
` I am the door: BY ME if any man enter in, he shall be saved' (John 10:9).
` He that entereth not by the door ... but climbeth up some other way, the same is a thief and a robber'
(John 10:1).
` I am the WAY, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but BY ME' (John 14:6).
Men may talk of working out their own way of salvation, but all such efforts in the light of these
words must end in deception and death because they ignore the only way God recognises, i.e., Christ
Himself.
There is a further question that may be put: How can God save me through Christ? It is entirely
beyond the capabilities of the finite mind to grasp this in all its fulness, but the Apostle Paul summed it up
when he said:
` For He (God) hath made Him (Christ) to be sin for us, Who knew no sin; that we might be made the
righteousness of God in Him' (2 Cor. 5:21).
There is a wonderful transference here. He takes your sin and bears it away and pays the penalty in
your stead, which is death. Hence His atoning death on Calvary's cross. You take His righteousness by
simple trust in Him and the free gift of eternal life in the place of condemnation and death; and not only
this, but His almighty power which will enable you to live, in the fullest sense of the word, a life of peace
and joy, in spite of all circumstances.
God's way of salvation then is plain. You are a failing creature, a sinner. You need a Saviour. There
is only one Saviour, and He is Jesus Christ. When you put your trust in Him and rely entirely upon His
all sufficient work and merit, you are saved and that for all eternity and the question which heads this
leaflet is then answered as to what a real Christian is. It is YOU if you have taken this one vital and
necessary step. If you have not, then we would urge upon you, with all the earnestness at our command,
that you do it NOW. You cannot guarantee to-morrow, therefore let not this day pass before you go to
God quietly, simply, and in all sincerity and tell Him that you are a sinner; that you realise your need of
salvation and will put your trust in the only Saviour of sinners, the Lord Jesus Christ. The peace of mind,
the joy, the sense of a real purpose in life which will surely follow have to be experienced to be believed.
If you turn away and reject Him, things can never be the same for you again. At least, you will not be
able to say that you did not know. Do not be concerned or afraid of what other people may do or think.
What does this matter when eternal things are at stake? Never mind how much you have sinned and
failed in the past; remember He said that He came to call sinners not righteous people, and therefore He
came for YOU. He will not turn you away for He has given you this promise:
` Him that cometh to ME I will in no wise cast out' (John 6:37).
` He is able also to save them to the uttermost that come unto God by Him, seeing He ever liveth to
make intercession for them' (Heb. 7:25).
He can be your Saviour here and now, and you can be a Christian in the truest sense if you will put
your trust in Him and receive His salvation and transforming power. This can only be done by yourself.
No one can do it for you. The question is:
WILL YOU?
Think well before you say NO, FOR YOUR ETERNAL DESTINY HANGS UPON YOUR
ANSWER.
A PRAYER FOR US TODAY
(Eph. 1:15-23)
Oscar M. Baker
Although the prayer in Ephesians 1 is for the saints and faithful at Ephesus, nevertheless it is applicable to such folks today. In 1:17 we note that the first thing necessary is that we have the gift of wisdom and revelation in the knowledge of Christ. Trying to learn about the mystery without learning Christ is about as foolish as some who want the kingdom without the King. The mystery of Christ can never be fully known without a grasp of the dispensation of the mystery. Neither can the dispensation of the mystery be known without a full revelation of the mystery of Christ. Study these two mysteries in 3:1-6.
Then before the prayer is opened there is an additional requirement, and that is that the eyes of the understanding be enlightened. Those spiritually blind can never get to see the mystery. Note that education is of no help. It is the spiritual realm that there must be the light, the understanding.
1. The hope of His calling. In the dispensation of promise the highest revelation of Christ is His position as King of kings and Lord of lords here on the earth. But now in the dispensation of the mystery we find a purpose for the ages in which Christ will be over all things, both in heaven and earth, and that these things will be gathered together as one. See verse 10. He is called to be the highest potentate in all the universe. And the purpose seems to be that God shall have the glory.
2. The riches of the glory of His inheritance in the holiest of all. We know nothing of the character of the place that is called the holiest of all. We do know that the tabernacle in the wilderness was a pattern of things in the heavens, but the pattern is all we have had revealed to us. We know nothing of heavenly geography, its materials, and its climate. But we do know that there are riches there and that they are a part of Christ's inheritance. We also find that the saints and faithful are made meet (fit or worthy) to be partakers of that inheritance (Col.1:12). In Eph. 2:6 we learn in these heavenly places, the holy of holies. And much more, in the ages to come will be piled up kindness upon kindness. Those in the dispensation of promise were partakers with Abraham of an inheritance which was the land that was promised. That we can see and understand to some extent. But in the dispensation of the mystery are things far higher and greater than Abraham ever dreamed of.
3. The exceeding greatness of His power to usward who believe. This is resurrection power. But it is only for those who believe. There is no record that in any dispensation resurrection power will be exercised in behalf of those who do not believe. This power raised Christ from the dead and set Him at the right hand of God in heavenly places. This power does the same thing for the believer in the dispensation of the mystery. This is identification with Him. Truly God is gracious to us because of the work of the Son. We should be thankful.
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WKUHilltopper
Advanced Member
Member # 5472
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posted
quote:
Originally posted by helpforhomeschoolers:
The scriptures speak of something called "familiar" spirits. I personally believe that these are demon spirit beings that roam the earth and deceive men. It seems that they are "familiar" with the goings on in our lives. I was deeply involved in the occult at one time in my life and I believe that I have encountered "familiar" spirits. I believe they are what some experience as a lost loved one or through channeling, or what we would call ghosts that haunt a place. I believe that it is also familiar spirits that can send us thoughts that allow us to believe that we have lived in another time, as they have been in those times themselves.
There is nothing in the scripture that I am aware of that would support that there is any other dsiposition of souls than this at the time of death... souls that are unjust to hell... souls that are just into the presence of God.
That's about the way I see it as well.
Posts: 259 | From: KY | Registered: Feb 2006
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Hitch
unregistered
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posted
quote:
Originally posted by Karma:
I have a question. So many christians claim they are spiritual beings, but! are scared to death of dabbling in that side of themselves. Scared of psychics, tarrot cards, pendulums, what christians consider immoral and devilish behavior. Scared of the possibilities that reincarnation exists. Scared that their holy texts have errors, missing parts, and are interpreted wrong. Its amazing to me what christians find immoral and wrong and perverse. I think christians now and in the olden days were just afraid of these things because they weren't given a talent or ability to see anything past the road in front of them. You could quote scriptures to me alllll day long, but i know them all. Ive studied them all, and my personal opinion (that i share with millions of others) is that the bible may hold some relevent moral truths, but fails to explain anything of our true nature, our spirtual nature. This angers and fustrates me, because Christians (yes christians) are the one of the!least! open minded religions. They all close themselves up to the possibilty that God isn't just a christian God. Hes everyones God and everyone is trying to find their own path to him. You ask why God is out of our schools! Look at what has become of the people representing your most high God. Look Im not a christian I once was, but had my revalations come in small doses to me. Im not anything special, but I know that God gave me some ability to see past this physical world. I hope I am not offending anyone this is JUST a question. This is just me EXPRESSING my opinion, but my question finally is. What is it that makes Christians, the belief in Jesus, so much higher than everyone elses. I am not asking for bible scriptures to be quoted at me. Those aren't your words, they are someone elses. Tell me what is it that makes you believe, what is your revalation that makes you seek out God. That makes your seek out Jesus. That makes you believe that the only road, path, and entrance to heaven and to God is acheieved by believing in Jesus??
Because God in His wisdom and grace gave me ears that hear.
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SoftTouch
Advanced Member
Member # 2316
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posted
The below is from a Statement of Faith that Caretaker posted up in the Bible Topics & Study section (first section here on the board). I believe this to be accurate of those of us who hold to a Fundamental View of the Bible as God's Holy and Inspired Word ![[Smile]](smile.gif) YOu can click on the link and read the entire SOF to get a better understanding of what we Believe
http://thechristianbbs.com/cgi-bin/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic;f=1;t=004618
quote:
L. Future Reward and Punishment
We believe that at the moment of death, believers pass immediately into the
presence of Christ and remain there in joyful fellowship with Him until the
resurrection of the body at His second coming, after which they will be
forever with the Lord in glory. We also believe that at the moment of death,
the unsaved descend to Hell where they are kept under punishment until their
bodies are raised at the final judgment, after which they will suffer everlasting
conscious punishment separated from the presence of the Lord. Acts 17:31;
Matthew 25:31-46; II Corinthians 5:8; Philippians 1:23; Revelation 20:11-15;
John 14:1-3; 3:16; II Thessalonians 1:7-10; Revelation 21:1-5.
If you’d care to check out the Scripture References for yourself, there is a wonderful online study tool you can use. Just cut and paste (or type) in the Book, Chapter and Verse (as above). Here’s the URL to the Passage look up page: http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/
I’d suggest using the King James Version as it’s the closest to the original manuscripts. You can change the Bible Version by clicking on the appropriate box.
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Psalm 119:104Through thy precepts I get understanding: therefore I hate every false way. 105Thy word is a lamp unto my feet, and a light unto my path.
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helpforhomeschoolers
Advanced Member
Member # 15
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posted
The scriptures teach us that upon death the souls of the just are taken into the presence of the Lord and the souls of the unjust are taken to hell to await the resurrection unto final judgment.
The scripture says that at death the spirit returns to God who gave it to man in the first place.
The scriptures speak of something called "familiar" spirits. I personally believe that these are demon spirit beings that roam the earth and deceive men. It seems that they are "familiar" with the goings on in our lives. I was deeply involved in the occult at one time in my life and I believe that I have encountered "familiar" spirits. I believe they are what some experience as a lost loved one or through channeling, or what we would call ghosts that haunt a place. I believe that it is also familiar spirits that can send us thoughts that allow us to believe that we have lived in another time, as they have been in those times themselves.
There is nothing in the scripture that I am aware of that would support that there is any other dsiposition of souls than this at the time of death... souls that are unjust to hell... souls that are just into the presence of God.
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Eduardo Grequi
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Does anyone believe in lost spirits?
Lost spirits-
Does the dead try to communicate with the living?
In the gospels it is writtten there were two men the rich man and Lazarus! While the two were alive and breathing on earth the rich man in his assertions had no concerns for his neighbor wether a beggar or otherwise , the richman enjoyed his riches and than he died; Lazarus ate the crumbs off the floor' he also died. When the richman saw that he was seperated from the bossom of Abraham, he asked that Lazarus dip his finger in the water for the richman was tormented in the flames going on with this. HE even plead that he be sent back to warn his brothers about this-read Luke 16:19-31
What I am getting at there are lost souls who try to circumvent the authority of God. Look at demons that possed people. The demons (spirits) are eternally lost.
I respect the fact that you feel like you have lived in another life time, because I get these feelins too. But this does not establish about my faith in Jesus. It tells me- "THAT people have these feelings from time to time. Often I wonder- is it someone trying to communicate etc..
In the old testament there is a story of the witch of Endorra. The King of Judea/Isreal sought out the witch to bring back the spirit of the dead prophet. The witch knew that the King was the son of David. She said what have I to do with you son of David.
The living always try to reach the departed even in biblical times.
If we are lost spirits, is the lostness relating to- why am I here for?
Or if the past dead tries to reinvent himself to become alive- he has a mission because it is trying to reconnect.
I truly believe we are lost within ourselves lacking direction; I believe God wants us therefore HE sent his son Jesus to die for us and deliver us from the wages of our sin? He loves us -Romans 5:8
Anyway I hope you find what you are looking for Karma!
Posts: 771 | From: Belvidere, IL | Registered: Oct 2004
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Karma
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Does anyone believe in lost spirits or does everyone believe you are either condemned to hell when you die or blessed with the chance to live in heaven for eternity?
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~*Death is but inching closer with every breath we take within our aging lungs.*~
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Eduardo Grequi
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The word reincarnation if you broke it down:
re ( to do it again or repeat it)
in ( to be brought from the outside)
carne(a) flesh or physical body
tion ( pertaining to..)
to repeat physical body imbodiment to continual life over and over..
What are moral values? Moral values are terms of acceptance that builds how your integrity and belief system is build up.
Even when you truly relate the word "moral" to its proper definition; it is a LATIN BASED WORD meaning to die for MORAT.
MORTiition
MORTuary
MORTal
MORTality
MORal
The word "immoral" means just the oposite. When a worldview says that it is immoral, they are in essence saying- I WOULD NOT DIE FOR THAT.
IM is latin prefix meaning NO or NOT
IMpossible
IMmoral
IMpertinent
REINCARNATION is built on the assumption that life goes on and the human spirit will reinvent bodily life after death. BECAUSE OF THIS extreme use and its character when one says he or she is a REINCARNATE application they are calling themselves a god. A god creates life, and this in its stricts definition is idolatry.
All in all when it all said- THERE IS NOTHING NEW UNDER THE SUN! (Eccles 1:9)
New Age movement is not new, it has been there in anciet history. EPHESIAN 6: Tells us that we wrestled not against flesh and blood, but against spirts etc....
Even the Apostle Paul knew that the war is on against evil principalties, demons, and Satan himself.
I come to terms with my belief in the Messiah based on the written record. I do not go on blind faith concening Jesus the Messiah- I truly believe Jesus is God made in the flesh. The record speaks for itself.
Faith is what I deemed to be true about whatever I believe to be so about whom I believe in or what I believe in.
Karma- some christians believe in reincarnation, but deny the deity of Christ based on the Holy Bible- these people who have a form of godlines but denies the cornerstone are not christian in the orthodox sense.
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helpforhomeschoolers
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quote:
All I can testify to is that I used to be a miserable wretch who wished she could just disappear, and now I have peace.
If God is there, and if you really want to know what he wants, just ask him. I'm sure he won't leave you hanging.
God Bless you! Amen what a beautiful testimony! That says it all. ![[hug]](graemlins/hug.gif)
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Beckie529
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Hey Karma,
I respect your questions. Keep seeking for your answers. Don't accept the answers that people preach to you--go to the source and ask God Himself. If God is "for real" and if he wants his children to all be Christians he would tell you that, right? What father won't answer his own kids?
In your original post you asked what makes (me) believe, what revelation causes me to seek God. All I can tell you is my experience. I was brought up being made to go to church and religious study weekly. When I became an adult I tried "new age", mystical, etc. I was into Reiki. I liked to get drunk. I liked to flirt around with the opposite sex, and I was married. I was hateful, critical and angry with anyone I came in contact with. All of those things just caused me to feel older and more bitter every day. I saw no solution to that, and figured that increasing bitterness was just a fact of life--the more you were disillusioned, the more bitter you would become.
I started a new job and met one of those "born again" freaks. Gadzooks, her husband was even a pastor!!! She talked about her life, her God, and how she dealt with lifes real problems (not the pitiful problems that most "church people" seem to think I cared about). She was the first "church lady" I ever met who didn't try to make me feel like pond scum because I didn't go to her particular flavor of church. She didn't ask me for money. I went to church with her a few times and was free and encouraged to ask all of my questions. My questions were answered--and the answer wasn't "don't ask those kinds of questions". My question to God was if he even cared what label I put on my own spiritual practices. I knew God was there, but I honestly didn't think he cared what name you called him or what type of building you talked to him from. I thought all religions were the same, because they all talked to the same God.
Then, Jesus physically, audibly, and spiritually spoke to me. I have no scientific proof for you, but it is absolutely true. When I had this experience I knew that what I had believed to be true about God was something I had made up in my own mind, and that he wanted to show me who he actually was. I have found that no other spiritual experience lasted and nothing else has calmed me or given me peace of mind, ever, except following Jesus.
I'm not big into denominations or doctrines, and if you've studied scriptures you might win if we were in a scripture quoting contest. All I can testify to is that I used to be a miserable wretch who wished she could just disappear, and now I have peace.
If God is there, and if you really want to know what he wants, just ask him. I'm sure he won't leave you hanging.
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Not that we are competent in ourselves to claim anything for ourselves, but our competence comes from God. 2Cor 3:5
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helpforhomeschoolers
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Okay heres a crazy thing! Christians almost all of them reject reincarnation they think its new age **** ! Well its not anywhere in the Bible that it says flat out or even in a riddle that it doesn't exist, that it can't happen or does happen or even will happen.
Hebrews 9:27 And as it is appointed unto men once to die, but after this the judgment:
quote:
Im fustrated because christians cut everyone off at the knees with these assumptions and then all the rest of us who have questions are left in the dark or are persecuted for asking the question in the first place.
I am sorry that you have been left in the dark or persucuted for asking a question. This is not God's will. You can ask any question you like here and I am sure that someone will be able to show you the answer from the scripture. There is nothing that God has not provided us the answer for, but there are somethings that we will not like the answer that HE has provided. And there are some things that we must accept by faith alone because the word of God says it is so, and there are somethings that we are not ready to receive and will not receive until we are ready and that is by HIS timing not ours.
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Just like suicide where in the bible does it mention the exact word?? Why are we condemned to hell for it?
Have you lost someone dear to you through suicide? The Bible does not use the word suicide, but the Bible does teach that God gives life to man and that only God has the right to decide when the life of man should come to end.
BUT here is what you need most to understand. All men born are already from the moment of their birth condemned to hell because of inherited sin. GOD does not desire man to go to hell, and so God provided the way for man not to have to go to hell. That way is belief and faith in God's word that says that HE loves us and HE sent HIS only begotten Son Jesus Christ to die on the cross and pay the price of the sin that you do not have to go to hell, but that when you die you can leave sin in the grave and be raised to live eternal life in th glorious presence of God.
There is only one thing that will ensure that man remains damned to hell and that is to reject Jesus and what HE has done.
Please hear me again, There is only one way to ensure that man will remain condemned to hell and that is for man to reject the propitaition that God gave him for sin and that propitiation is Jesus the Christ who lived, died was buried and risen for to pay for your sins that you may also rise. He lives and HE is now alive seated at the right hand of the Father God and HE promises that if you will come to HIM, HE will not cast you away, but will save you from sin and from hell. He is coming back to earth soon. He tarries now because he waits for the lost. ONE way to remove from man the curse of sin that is death and damnation in hell! JESUS. One way to ensure that you will remain damned to hell by the curse... reject Jesus.
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Sorry thats a question only God has an answer too and its tiring to hear people claim to have all this so called knowledge about God.
Is it tiring or is it just too scary to think tha they may be right? The person who commits suicide was damned to hell while they lived if they had rejected Jesus. If a person has not rejected Jesus but believes and something happens that they sin and commit suicide, Jesus then becomes their advocate and Jesus intercedes for them with God. If some you cared about committed suicide then I pray that they knew and believed in Jesus... but even more I pray that you will repent for your rejecting him, that you not needlessly have to go to hell. Jesus died for you and he loves you and he extends his love to you there is no sin that HIS blood cannot cover except the sin of refusing to accept the sacrifice he gave.
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The truth is every single person is in the dark, every religion is in the dark. Because being separted from God(light) is hell(dark).
Some are in the total dark tis true. But when we believe God is able to come into us with HIs light. We can walk in that light in this life... We can see HIM clearly. What we have trouble with is seeing ourselves clearly. We are told in the scipture that as long as we live in this life we will see ourselves not completely clearly, but when we shed this body of sin and death, then we will see even ourselves clearly and if we are born again believers indwelled by HIS spirit, at that time when do see ourselves clearly, we will see that we have become like HIM.. like Jesus.
Every religion is in the dark... but Christianity is not a religion.... it is a relationship in which the GOD of all gods has come to live bodily in us and is transforming us into the likeness of HIS SON Jesus, and we have become one with HIS Body and Mind and will. It is a relationship with GOD Christianity. And there is no religion on earth that is this.
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No one has the right to tell anyone their wrong, because no one not even the atheist have physical evidence for the existence of God, am I wrong? I'm sure you'll prove me wrong right?
This is pretty lame on your part as you have already told me that you know God exists. But let me say this... yes you are wrong.
There is a plethora of physical evidence that God does exisit. What an athiest cannot do is prove that he does not exisit. An athiest has to have faith in himself and his own rightness to deny that God exisits. No athiest can prove that God does not exisit!
The thing that separates me from an athiest is where we have placed our faith. An Athiest has faith in himself and his ability to know that God does not exisit. My faith is not in myself. I know that I am proabably wrong most of the time with regard to something... I have placed my faith in GOD and his word. If God does not exisit and HIS word is wrong then what... I am dead when I die. But if HE does exisit and HIS word is true, then I HE will not deny me because I had faith in HIM and HIS name would be at stake if HE denied me who had faith in HIM!
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As for the bible its got some great moral values that we as a people all need to hear, but lets get real it really doesn't offer a great deal of spritual adivce, besides threating us to believe in Jesus or else!
The Bible actually does not have moral values at all. Morality is relative to the culture in which man lives. What is moral in China is hardly moral here and what was moral 2000 years ago is imoral today and so on. The Bible contains information that GOD gave us that we would come to know HIM, and in coming to know HIM, that we would come to see ourselves as we are and know that we needed HIM. God did not make man to sin. Sin condemned man to hell thousands of years ago. Without Jesus you are going to hell. But God provided for you that you do not have to be the recipient of the judgement that you deserve. Man is already condemned without Jesus. God did not do that. It is man that is incapable of good, because man is not God and ONLY GOD is wholly good.
The Bible is not bringing to you a threat of condemnation... it is bringing to you a promise of hope.
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Caretaker
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There is no fear in the Believer of occultic spiritism, for God hath not given us the spirit of fear but of love, and of power and of a sound mind.
God has declared the occult to be an abomination and so we stand against the new age, spiritism, and other satanic practices. Just as Paul cast the spirit of divination out of the girl and Peter stood against Simon Magnus, the Believer will stand against the occult and place their faith and trust in Jesus. Jesus, the name above all names, the Lord of Lords and the King of Kings. Bow to Him now and receive His redemption or bow to Him later in adject fear and face His wrath and eternal judgement.
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A Servant of Christ,
Drew
1 Tim. 3:
16: And without controversy great is the mystery of godliness: God was manifest in the flesh..
Posts: 3978 | From: Council Grove, KS USA | Registered: Jun 2002
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Caretaker
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Heb. 9:
27: And as it is appointed unto men once to die, but after this the judgment:
28: So Christ was once offered to bear the sins of many; and unto them that look for him shall he appear the second time without sin unto salvation.
Those who receive Jesus are born-again and redeemed by the Blood of the Lamb, those who reject Jesus are already condemned.
It is ONLY through Jesus that we become the sons of God, through the spirit of adoption, through Jesus.
John 3:
14: And as Moses lifted up the serpent in the wilderness, even so must the Son of man be lifted up:
15: That whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have eternal life.
16: For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.
17: For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be saved.
18: He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.
Romans 8:
13 For if ye live after the flesh, ye shall die: but if ye through the Spirit do mortify the deeds of the body, ye shall live. 14 For as many as are led by the Spirit of God, they are the sons of God. 15 For ye have not received the spirit of bondage again to fear; but ye have received the Spirit of adoption, whereby we cry, Abba, Father. 16 The Spirit itself beareth witness with our spirit, that we are the children of God:
Reject and rail against God and His eternal Word all day long, it will not change one iota of the eternal consequences of your rejection.
Jesus IS THE ONLY way, the ONLY truth, the ONLY life, and those who reject Him will face the consequences.
Many are deceived by the god of this world, Satan himself is transformed into an angel of light. God has spoken against the occultic practices and those who practice and seek them stand in danger of the true and eternal judgement of God.
Eternital judgement is real, and forever, and can only be escaped through Christ Jesus our Lord.
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A Servant of Christ,
Drew
1 Tim. 3:
16: And without controversy great is the mystery of godliness: God was manifest in the flesh..
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Karma
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Okay heres a crazy thing! Christians almost all of them reject reincarnation they think its new age **** ! Well its not anywhere in the Bible that it says flat out or even in a riddle that it doesn't exist, that it can't happen or does happen or even will happen. Even Job asks God if man is only allowed one life and if so what a waste! I know I misquoted it I'm just trying to get my point across heres the verse in the bible to look it up... Job 14:1-22... Im fustrated because christians cut everyone off at the knees with these assumptions and then all the rest of us who have questions are left in the dark or are persecuted for asking the question in the first place. Just like suicide where in the bible does it mention the exact word?? Why are we condemned to hell for it? Sorry thats a question only God has an answer too and its tiring to hear people claim to have all this so called knowledge about God. The truth is every single person is in the dark, every religion is in the dark. Because being separted from God(light) is hell(dark). No one has the right to tell anyone their wrong, because no one not even the atheist have physical evidence for the existence of God, am I wrong? I'm sure you'll prove me wrong right? As for the bible its got some great moral values that we as a people all need to hear, but lets get real it really doesn't offer a great deal of spritual adivce, besides threating us to believe in Jesus or else!
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~*Death is but inching closer with every breath we take within our aging lungs.*~
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helpforhomeschoolers
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quote:
You could quote scriptures to me alllll day long, but i know them all. Ive studied them all, and my personal opinion (that i share with millions of others) is that the bible may hold some relevent moral truths, but fails to explain anything of our true nature, our spirtual nature. This angers and fustrates me, because Christians (yes christians) are the one of the!least! open minded religions.
I see that the scriptures reveal every thing that we would ever have need to know about our true spiritual nature. If you have studied tham, then surely you must see this in black and white.
What I suspect is that you do not like what it reveals about our true nature and thus you reject it.
Is it that you find that revelation of the true spiritual nature of man is not there.. not present in the scriptures? Or is it that you do not like what it says about the true spiritual nature of man and thus you reject it? Are you angry and frustrated because the revelation of man's true spiritual nature is not present in the scriptures or are you angry and frustrated because they reveal something that your Spiritual nature does not want to hear and rejects as being true?
Posts: 4684 | From: Southern Black Hills of South Dakota | Registered: Jun 2002
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Karma
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Actually I believe every christian claims to have heard God's voice. To tell you the honest truth... God probably hasn't verbally spoken to you. Now let me tell you this I have more spiritual knowledge than most christians will ever have or ever be able to obtain. You say you have to believe in God for him to speak to you. I tell you this... No you don't! Understand? God is father and creator to all who are on earth. To believe that he isn't is BS and maybe you should dust of your bible and read over it again. Since you want to throw it in my face here read this scripture and then go read your bible and tell me i'm a liar.... John 6:43-46 Isn't Jesus implying God is all of our Fathers because I really fail to see where he is saying that God is only the father of the christians! Don't try to make me look like a fool its wrong. You aren't God or any all powerful spiritual being so don't sit there on your pedastool trying to look down on the world and all of its inhabitants. And don't try to be smart and explain to me the differences of spirit and flesh. It seems like your flesh is taking over there with that comment! Repent.
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~*Death is but inching closer with every breath we take within our aging lungs.*~
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helpforhomeschoolers
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quote:
Again I am saying I am not trying to offend, but to be honest all you did was say you believe in God, because you read it in a Bible. I am asking what your spirit says, not what the texts read. As I said I am very familar with the bible, and I am wanting to know what drives you to believe in Jesus? Dreams, Intuition, fear? Lets get real you can quote the scriptures t'ill your blue in the face, but you can still carry doubt about something. Im not asking what your flesh thinks; I am asking what your spirit thinks.
No, that is not I told you. People can read the Bible all day long and not believe as I do. You yourself say that you know the scriptures and yet you do not believe as I do.
Let me use your words... What my spirit says is there is a God and I am not HE and What HE says is true.. that is because my Spirit and HIS Spirit are one in Spirit. The things of God are known to my Spirit because HIS spirit has made my spirit to know them. What drives me to believe in Jesus is faith and the power of God's Spirit who has revealed Himself to my spirit.
Posts: 4684 | From: Southern Black Hills of South Dakota | Registered: Jun 2002
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yahsway
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Karma, since you said you know the scriptures, then you know that flesh and blood do not inherit the kingdom, right?
And it is only by the Ruach (Spirit) that one can cry out Abba. Thats how we know.
The God of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob, the "Christian" God as you have so rightly labeled Him, is Spirit and those of us who are of His seed hear His voice and follow Him.
This same God, the Only True LIVING God, is Not the Father of everyone. I believe He is the Creator of human kind, but He is not the Father of all. Understand?
Since God the Father is Spirit, one must worship Him in spirit and in truth. We are not "gods" we are born-again, made in the likeness of Him.
And He says, we shall not have any other gods before His face. Undersatand?
It is by the leading of the Ruach/Holy Spirit that one is lead to the truth. Not intellect, not some "secret gnostic wisdom" not by flesh, but only by His Spirit do we know Him.
With man, it is impossible to know Him. But with God, all things are possible to those who believe. Seek and you shall find, konck and the door will be opned to you.
But this door is the Truth. It is not mixed with other gods, other revelations, ect.. Few there are that find it. Broad is the way to destruction and narrow is the way to eternal life.
There is a way that seems right unto men, but our ways are not His ways, our thoughts, not His thoughts.
I believe because I have Shema/Heard Him. His sheep Hear His voice. Are you listening for Him? Shalom
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Karma
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Again I am saying I am not trying to offend, but to be honest all you did was say you believe in God, because you read it in a Bible. I am asking what your spirit says, not what the texts read. As I said I am very familar with the bible, and I am wanting to know what drives you to believe in Jesus? Dreams, Intuition, fear? Lets get real you can quote the scriptures t'ill your blue in the face, but you can still carry doubt about something. Im not asking what your flesh thinks; I am asking what your spirit thinks.
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~*Death is but inching closer with every breath we take within our aging lungs.*~
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helpforhomeschoolers
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quote:
but my question finally is. What is it that makes Christians, the belief in Jesus, so much higher than everyone elses.
GOD Almighty creator of the universe said it was so.
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I am not asking for bible scriptures to be quoted at me. Those aren't your words, they are someone elses.
Right they are the words of the ONE TRUE GOD, creator of heaven and earth.
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Tell me what is it that makes you believe, what is your revalation that makes you seek out God. That makes your seek out Jesus. That makes you believe that the only road, path, and entrance to heaven and to God is acheieved by believing in Jesus??
FAITH that is in and of GOD the Almghty creator of Heaven & Earth, who was manifest in the Flesh of the Lord Jesus Christ and given to us by HIS Grace!
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Karma
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I have a question. So many christians claim they are spiritual beings, but! are scared to death of dabbling in that side of themselves. Scared of psychics, tarrot cards, pendulums, what christians consider immoral and devilish behavior. Scared of the possibilities that reincarnation exists. Scared that their holy texts have errors, missing parts, and are interpreted wrong. Its amazing to me what christians find immoral and wrong and perverse. I think christians now and in the olden days were just afraid of these things because they weren't given a talent or ability to see anything past the road in front of them. You could quote scriptures to me alllll day long, but i know them all. Ive studied them all, and my personal opinion (that i share with millions of others) is that the bible may hold some relevent moral truths, but fails to explain anything of our true nature, our spirtual nature. This angers and fustrates me, because Christians (yes christians) are the one of the!least! open minded religions. They all close themselves up to the possibilty that God isn't just a christian God. Hes everyones God and everyone is trying to find their own path to him. You ask why God is out of our schools! Look at what has become of the people representing your most high God. Look Im not a christian I once was, but had my revalations come in small doses to me. Im not anything special, but I know that God gave me some ability to see past this physical world. I hope I am not offending anyone this is JUST a question. This is just me EXPRESSING my opinion, but my question finally is. What is it that makes Christians, the belief in Jesus, so much higher than everyone elses. I am not asking for bible scriptures to be quoted at me. Those aren't your words, they are someone elses. Tell me what is it that makes you believe, what is your revalation that makes you seek out God. That makes your seek out Jesus. That makes you believe that the only road, path, and entrance to heaven and to God is acheieved by believing in Jesus??
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~*Death is but inching closer with every breath we take within our aging lungs.*~
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