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Author Topic: Should Christians???
wparr
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I'm not saying I have it togeather in this area (who REALLY does, very few).

But I'm letting God work at me and in me in this (and other) area.

So my I haven't arrived, but my ship has left the dock.

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redkermit
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Thank you, I had already gotten your point previously! [Wink]

--------------------
I would rather be a doorkeeper in the house of my God than dwell in the tents of the wicked. (Ps. 84:10b)

1 John 2:6
Whoever claims to live in him must walk as Jesus did.

Listen Online:
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www.997flr.org

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wparr
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And my point is, do we justfy that poor stewardship, do we see how close we can get to that line without out crossing over it.

Or do we repent of it, and by the Grace of God, become better stewards of ALL God gives us (time, tallent and treasures).

Which direction, as disciples of Yahshua, are we to move in & are we moving in that direction?

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redkermit
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OK, and my point was that everyone wastes money somehow. And wasting money is wasting money, whether it's by gambling or buying things that aren't necessary. I wasn't trying to make gambling "right", I was responding to the point that it is a wasteful use of money.

--------------------
I would rather be a doorkeeper in the house of my God than dwell in the tents of the wicked. (Ps. 84:10b)

1 John 2:6
Whoever claims to live in him must walk as Jesus did.

Listen Online:
www.wmuz.com
www.997flr.org

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wparr
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ok my bad.

But with that comparison, one still DID right.

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redkermit
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quote:
Originally posted by wparr:
The parable of the prodigal son, Jesus is NOT comparing the two sons to each other.
The focus is on THE FATHER and what he did.

I wasn't referring to the parable of the prodigal son, I was referring to the parable where the father asked his two sons to work the field. One said no, but did go anyway, and the other said yes, but did not go. Which is why I made that distinction in parentheses.

quote:
Originally posted by redkermit:
the parable of the two sons (who the father asked to work the field),



--------------------
I would rather be a doorkeeper in the house of my God than dwell in the tents of the wicked. (Ps. 84:10b)

1 John 2:6
Whoever claims to live in him must walk as Jesus did.

Listen Online:
www.wmuz.com
www.997flr.org

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wparr
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quote:
Originally posted by redkermit:
It wasn't a comparison to see who was a better person, it was a parable, if you will, to make a point. Jesus told many parables "comparing" people. In the parable of the ten coins, who was the better servant, in the parable of the two sons (who the father asked to work the field), who was the better son? Jesus often did this.

But in Jesus's comparisons, one person did right.
In your comparison, both were wrong.

The parable of the prodigal son, Jesus is NOT comparing the two sons to each other.
The focus is on THE FATHER and what he did.

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helpforhomeschoolers
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I was waiting to see who it would be that would say that Redkermit! [cool_shades]
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redkermit
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quote:
Originally posted by Carmela:
In that case RedKermit, I would like to join your game [Big Grin]

I don't know how to play poker, but I sure don't seem to win very often at other things. [Eek!]

Just what I need, someone who doesn't know how to play! Maybe I could actually win for once!

--------------------
I would rather be a doorkeeper in the house of my God than dwell in the tents of the wicked. (Ps. 84:10b)

1 John 2:6
Whoever claims to live in him must walk as Jesus did.

Listen Online:
www.wmuz.com
www.997flr.org

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redkermit
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quote:
Originally posted by wparr:

And a side note:

Comparing what person A does or person B does and which who is better

We are not to compare ourselves to others, we can ALWAYS find somebody worse than us, and thus justify our actions and behavior;

We are to compare ourselvers ONLY to Christ Himself, He is the plumb line and standard.

It wasn't a comparison to see who was a better person, it was a parable, if you will, to make a point. Jesus told many parables "comparing" people. In the parable of the ten coins, who was the better servant, in the parable of the two sons (who the father asked to work the field), who was the better son? Jesus often did this.

--------------------
I would rather be a doorkeeper in the house of my God than dwell in the tents of the wicked. (Ps. 84:10b)

1 John 2:6
Whoever claims to live in him must walk as Jesus did.

Listen Online:
www.wmuz.com
www.997flr.org

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Carmela
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In that case RedKermit, I would like to join your game [Big Grin]

I don't know how to play poker, but I sure don't seem to win very often at other things. [Eek!]

--------------------
www.pinecrest.org

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redkermit
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quote:
Originally posted by helpforhomeschoolers:
I do not think that gambling is ok; because those who win at gambling win at the expense of those lose. Someone has to lose for you to win; I so not see how you can gamble and do this:

1 Corinthians 10:24 Let no man seek his own, but every man another’s wealth.

I do seek every man's wealth when I play poker, because I always lose! [Big Grin]

--------------------
I would rather be a doorkeeper in the house of my God than dwell in the tents of the wicked. (Ps. 84:10b)

1 John 2:6
Whoever claims to live in him must walk as Jesus did.

Listen Online:
www.wmuz.com
www.997flr.org

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Carmela
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Don't give up hoping and praying Gail. My husband wasn't a Christian either and life wasn't easy. My husband has something to say about everything, but it's hard to convince him of anything.

I learned to say nothing, live a Christian life and be an example of Christ, and pray for him and guess what!! To my amazement he was laid off this winter and spent time reading all of my Christian books. Then, he went to the book store at my bible school and started buying Jean Guyon books and read all of them also. I stopped tithing, with the permission of my pastor, because he was so troubled by it. Now, he insisted on going to church, he chose the church...and it's a good one, he started praying, accepted the Lord, fasts, and he insists we both tithe each week. Talk about a miracle. I am still in shock by it all. I know God can do all things, but I really didn't think anything would change my husband's way of thinking. It's amazing, so don't give up praying for him.

Do what you think is best. In the end, it's you that has to live with any decisions you make so I don't want to try to get you to do something you are not comfortable with.

Love and blessings,
Carmela

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www.pinecrest.org

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Just Passing Through
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Thanks guys----but you can not lovingly wittness to him about anything.He is what I would call two-faced. I get it one way outsiders get the ( LOOK AT ME _WHAT A NICE PERSON I AM ) type ofthing. He caeswhat others think of him but not me !!1Even if i nicly tell sister I will not be going because Pa has a problem with me going, she will comeanyway and get in his face about it, he then will make me out to be crazy or a lier. I know him.In any even he will tell me to go with her.I have lived with this man 39 years. If I push him in a corner he can get very mean. Hewill be really nice while she is around but when she leaves---watch out. Wwhile I dont think what I did was a sin, I guess somewhere deep inside I could of done something better with this money.I have my cousins feelings to think about also. She wont go with us but she will go with her--type thing. Living with a non-christian sure is hard. He has these ideas on how they ( CHRISTIANS ) should act. They really should be like zombies. No fun, no laughing, kind of like being in a jail cell.This is the main reason I think it will take THE TRIBULATION to open is eyes, if then, sad to say. I thought maybe I would go ahead and call her beore hand and tell her whats happened, mayb that will keep her from comming.But if I know herand I do she will come anyway , she loves to stir up trouble between us. He will always take her side. I will be the jerk. OH Lord I am soooo ready to go home, come soon LORD JESUS and get us.

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Gail

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wparr
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Why do soooo soooo many "Christians" try to justify sin?

Why do sooooooo soooooooo many try see how close they can get to the "line" without ever crossing it?


(1Th 5:22) Abstain from every appearance of evil.

If it's even QUESTIONABLE we as followers of Christ should abstain.

Eph 5:15-17
(15) See then that you walk circumspectly, not as fools, but as wise,
(16) redeeming the time, because the days are evil.
(17) Therefore do not be unwise, but understand what the will of the Lord is.


What about these verses gives room to live like and act like the world?


1Pe 1:13-16
(13) Therefore, prepare your minds for action, keep sober in spirit, fix your hope completely on the grace to be brought to you at the revelation of Jesus Christ.
(14) As obedient children, do not be conformed to the former lusts which were yours in your ignorance,
(15) but like the Holy One who called you, be holy yourselves also in all your behavior;
(16) because it is written, "YOU SHALL BE HOLY, FOR I AM HOLY."


We are to be Holy like Christ!!!

Yes, for those who will try to argue that we can't, that it's Christ's Holiness In us, we can't be Holy in our flesh.

but

IF Christ is living in us and thru us, that Holiness isn't to be kept INSIDE us, but it is to come out (along with the other attributes of Christ)and be made manifest in our lives so others can see JESUS in us and thru us.


Would Jesus goto casinos?

YOU BET

Would He GAMBLE there?

Not only NO but #$%* NO

He would be there to minister and share the Gospel.


If Christ is in you, do yo want to take Him gambling?


And a side note:

Comparing what person A does or person B does and which who is better

We are not to compare ourselves to others, we can ALWAYS find somebody worse than us, and thus justify our actions and behavior;

We are to compare ourselvers ONLY to Christ Himself, He is the plumb line and standard.

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Carmela
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I disagree. If you believe that gambling is against God, then you shouldn't do it. God told us to be submissive to our husbands, but he didn't tell us to allow others to lead us into doing something that is sin. It's a personal matter whether you think gambling is wrong or not, but if you think it's wrong you should never let your husband talk you into it.

The bible calls what your husband is doing "double mindedness" If he isn't a Christian, then you can lovingly witness to him or you can just let it go but I certainly wouldn't do something that you think is wrong. I also wouldn't go just to please another person if in my heart I feel what I am doing is wrong.

I agree with HFHS this time and I like how youe explanation.

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www.pinecrest.org

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TEXASGRANDMA
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As wives we are often put in suitiations like this. We are told to honor and obey our husbands. Both times I went, it was because this is what my husband chose to do. Our finaces were better than. I would pray about it. Pray that if it is God's will that you not go, that God will change your husband's mind. If your husband insist you go, then you should go with his sister.
This would be an act of obedience to your husband.
I have prayed this way in the past and sometimes God changed my husband's mind about things. Other times God did not change my husband's mind but I got a peace in my heart that obeying my husband was the right thing to do.
God bless you, sister.
betty

--------------------
Luk 21:28 And when these things begin to come to pass, then look up, and lift up your heads; for your redemption draweth nigh.
http://www.indieheaven.com/artists/mm (son-in-law)http://www.myspace.com/mireles

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Just Passing Through
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I went 3 times with friends.Hubb knew it and even told me to win HIM some money. There is ahunting buggy he wants. Win me some money is what he old m to my face. Butttt, to others in front of me he sais if you go to church you should not gamble. Two stories . He like to get e in front of people nd be-little me. He is an un-believe. to make a long story short , I really didnt feel right about going, but did it anywy. I prayed and asked God to fix it somehow so I wouldnt go again. 2 days later this is what my husband pulls on me in front of my family. we were having cake andice cream for grand-d birthday. Whilein a way I got my prayer answered, I really didnt like the way it happened. I called my friendsand told them my hubby had a poroblem with me going so I would not be going again. BUT his sister is comming in a week or so and wants to go out there. Knowing him , he will tell me to go with her so he will not look like a baddy. I cant win for loosing.He doesnt like to look bad in anyones eyes. She will win. He will let me go with his sister but notwith my cousins.This is driving me batty.yes you can--no you cant. yuck.Behind ll of this I got my answer from God to not let me go back---so what to do when his sister puts i for me to go with her and he says yes ??????

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Gail

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helpforhomeschoolers
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I do not think that gambling is ok; because those who win at gambling win at the expense of those lose. Someone has to lose for you to win; I so not see how you can gamble and do this:

1 Corinthians 10:24 Let no man seek his own, but every man another’s wealth.

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Carmela
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I agree with you RedKermit. We can show that wasting money isn't being a good steward but the bible never mentions gambling and we know it happened in Jesus time, even at the foot of His cross. I think gambling is wrong in a casino and at home I choose not to just to be on the safe side.

The bible says that if we say we are perfect we lie. I believe the same is true if we say we have never wasted any money. I am sure we have all done it at one time or another...even men. [Big Grin]

As far as nickle and dime gambling, that is a personal issue. Each will have their own opinion of it, but I don't think it's as bad as going to a casino.

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www.pinecrest.org

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BrazilianMommy
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I do not feel it is right for a Christian to gamble at a house of games, money involved. As the money that the gambler loses goes to expand more the casino business and get more people to lose money. Lots of them, lose houses and families. For me, even if it not going to corrupt your spirit by playing a game, your action will affect other people's lives. I am sure we can have fun playing with friends, gambling with no money or even 'who loses' pays for the dinner. Play bingo for charity...etc.

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Jesus loves you

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redkermit
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quote:
Originally posted by TEXASGRANDMA:
We are guilty of buying things that are frivolous. If we got technical, when we stop and get a cold drink at the store instead of waiting until we got home is frivolous. But, I don't think when we get to Heaven we are going to be read the riot act for every soda we ever bought at the 7 & 11 or out of a machine.
I don't think that God is mad at me for my two trips where we played the one arm bandit. I think God is more concerned with other things in my life. Now if I had not paid my tithes that week, in order to play, then I would have sinned.
betty

[thumbsup2]

--------------------
I would rather be a doorkeeper in the house of my God than dwell in the tents of the wicked. (Ps. 84:10b)

1 John 2:6
Whoever claims to live in him must walk as Jesus did.

Listen Online:
www.wmuz.com
www.997flr.org

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TEXASGRANDMA
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We are guilty of buying things that are frivolous. If we got technical, when we stop and get a cold drink at the store instead of waiting until we got home is frivolous. But, I don't think when we get to Heaven we are going to be read the riot act for every soda we ever bought at the 7 & 11 or out of a machine.
I don't think that God is mad at me for my two trips where we played the one arm bandit. I think God is more concerned with other things in my life. Now if I had not paid my tithes that week, in order to play, then I would have sinned.
betty

--------------------
Luk 21:28 And when these things begin to come to pass, then look up, and lift up your heads; for your redemption draweth nigh.
http://www.indieheaven.com/artists/mm (son-in-law)http://www.myspace.com/mireles

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redkermit
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Well, really my point was that I'm pretty sure we all probably spend money on things we don't need. If you can honestly say you don't, then that is great. But, I just don't see using nickels and dimes from a change jar for poker a few times a year as being sinful.

I wouldn't advocate taking annual trips to Las Vegas and gambling away hundreds of dollars. But, we could split so many hairs with this. Are we a good steward with our time?

If you can back up biblically that gambling in and of itself is a sin, then I would be more than happy to look into it and study it further. Eating isn't a sin, but overeating can be. It's about something taking precedence in our lives over Jesus Christ. Gambling has always been traditionally considered a sin. But, like I said, show me biblically.

It was mentioned above about time spent gambling instead of spending time with family or helping the needy, etc. What about any time spent by yourself? Reading a book, watching TV, working on a project in the garage just to get away, fishing (for fish, not men!), shopping, etc.

quote:
The fruit of gambling, is as the fruit of sex, drugs, drinking, the fruit of death and destruction.
Prov. 27:19
As water reflects a face, so a man's heart reflects the man.


Anyway, I feel like I'm rambling and jumping all over the place here, and should probably just leave this one alone.

As I originally stated, ultimately, it's probably best not to gamble, but ultimately you should seek guidance from God and His Word.

--------------------
I would rather be a doorkeeper in the house of my God than dwell in the tents of the wicked. (Ps. 84:10b)

1 John 2:6
Whoever claims to live in him must walk as Jesus did.

Listen Online:
www.wmuz.com
www.997flr.org

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Carmela
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Neither, they both need to go before God and if a person prays before going shopping, makes a list and only buys what's on the list, they won't waste money. Also, a person can stop and pray or think about how badly they need what they are desiring to buy. Say "is this a need or a want that I have."

I have a friend that has plenty of money and she spends lots of money others. Food, clothes, whatever. However, before buying anything for herself she prays and asks God. She prays before buying for others also. Even though she has plenty of money, she seeks to do God's will alone in all things, even her purchases.

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www.pinecrest.org

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TEXASGRANDMA
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Person B

--------------------
Luk 21:28 And when these things begin to come to pass, then look up, and lift up your heads; for your redemption draweth nigh.
http://www.indieheaven.com/artists/mm (son-in-law)http://www.myspace.com/mireles

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redkermit
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Person A never gambles in any way, shape, or form, but spends quite frivolously. "A" buys clothes they don't need, toys they don't need, accessories, etc.

Person B never spends frivolously, only buys what they need. But, "B" plays poker once a month with their friends.

Who is the better steward?

--------------------
I would rather be a doorkeeper in the house of my God than dwell in the tents of the wicked. (Ps. 84:10b)

1 John 2:6
Whoever claims to live in him must walk as Jesus did.

Listen Online:
www.wmuz.com
www.997flr.org

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Carmela
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The bible tells us that we are to be good stewards of what God gives us. If you have a job and earned the money, it is still from God since He gives everything we had and he takes away. That is biblical also. As it has been stated, that $5.00 could be used to buy a little food for the homeless person on the street and that is one night that person won't go to bed hungry. I don't even buy $1.00 raffle tickets because to me that $1.00 could have bought a gallon of water for someone on the street, or even something off McDonald's dollar menu for them. Ok that wouldn't fill them much but it helps.

What about the parable of the talents? The wise and foolish men. To me, gambling is worse than if you burried the money. Usually there is nothing to show for it later. As Texasgradma said, when the money is GONE, she leaves.

Do you think if you were standing before Jesus saying I just want to use $5.00 to try my look that He would approve? I don't think He would.

--------------------
www.pinecrest.org

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redkermit
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Ultimately, I would say it is better not to gamble.

Now, a few times a year, I will get together with some friends for a friendly poker night, and we use nickels and dimes. I don't have a problem with this, and I don't go any further than that.

Definitely something to pray about and ask for God's guidance.

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I would rather be a doorkeeper in the house of my God than dwell in the tents of the wicked. (Ps. 84:10b)

1 John 2:6
Whoever claims to live in him must walk as Jesus did.

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Caretaker
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Passing was referencing gambling with "extra" money. One should never gamble with money that they would not be prepared to flush down the toilet. If the money you would spend gambling were placed in the hands of a charity, and you spent the same length of time that you would be gambling, with your family, in fellowship, in prayer and worship, not only would you be "money ahead", but a few extra dollars might make a critical difference in the life of another.

The fruit of gambling, is as the fruit of sex, drugs, drinking, the fruit of death and destruction. To see the "fruit" of gambling, look past the glitz of the facades. Look past the shows, the lavish trappings, the stacks of "high society". Look to the streets and see the fruit who walk from casino to casino in the wee-hours before dawn. See who has spent their disability check, and is wandering from machine to machine looking for credits, and maybe that one golden chance when the "three '7s" come-up.

Matt. 7:13
Enter ye in at the strait gate: for wide is the gate, and broad is the way, that leadeth to destruction, and many there be which go in thereat:

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A Servant of Christ,
Drew

1 Tim. 3:
16: And without controversy great is the mystery of godliness: God was manifest in the flesh..

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andyman
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oh oops... i just realized you were talking about gambling w/o money.. muh bad, muh bad...

so you mean "Go Fish?" then? [Razz]

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IN 2000, WE AMERICANS spent 94 Billion Dollars lavishly on our home churches. However, the average North American Christian gives only 50 CENTS a week to global missions.

Gospel for Asia - Fire on the Altar

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andyman
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NO!!!!!!!

Ive lived in Las Vegas for 14 years. As a resident, locals have a rule- never, ever gamble. If you've seen my city within the past 5 years or 10, 15, 20 to where we are now... we just shortly opened up the Wynn Hotel which is a Billion dollar operation. We keep on adding and we keep on expanding. And guess who pays the bill? Its not the government or Steve Wynn, but all the losers who do gamble!!!! All of our profit was made off of scamming people like you. People who thought they would walk away with extra cash but lost.

Im not trying to trick you my friend but its the cold hard honest truth after being in LV for 14 years. Im just telling you so you wont have have financial trouble.

Biblically, its not how God intended for you to govern your money. You know what- former lead Mafia crime boss, then became radically changed by God- he has a huge part of ministry speeking on the demonic spirit of gambling. go check out Michael Franzese

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IN 2000, WE AMERICANS spent 94 Billion Dollars lavishly on our home churches. However, the average North American Christian gives only 50 CENTS a week to global missions.

Gospel for Asia - Fire on the Altar

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TEXASGRANDMA
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I have before. Once many years ago in Monte Carlo
and once in Vegas. We decided that 20 was all we would play and when it was gone, we quit.
So, I don't see a problem with it myself.
betty

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Luk 21:28 And when these things begin to come to pass, then look up, and lift up your heads; for your redemption draweth nigh.
http://www.indieheaven.com/artists/mm (son-in-law)http://www.myspace.com/mireles

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Just Passing Through
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gamble just for fun. Not using bill money or needed money just extra money.Ffor fun only.

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Gail

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