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Topic: Knowing that God exists.....
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TEXASGRANDMA
Advanced Member
Member # 847
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posted
RedPhoenix
You say on your ID page that you are not a Christian. I do not know why you came here, but I will pray for you that God will open your eyes to the truth. One day, Jesus will come back for His own, I pray that you will be in the rapture with His other children.
betty
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Luk 21:28 And when these things begin to come to pass, then look up, and lift up your heads; for your redemption draweth nigh.
http://www.indieheaven.com/artists/mm (son-in-law)http://www.myspace.com/mireles
Posts: 4985 | From: Washington State | Registered: Jan 2003
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Gramajo320
unregistered
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posted
Favorminded,
Excellent postings! Thank you very much and God bless you always!
In Christ's love,
Gramajo320
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lonlesol
Advanced Member
Member # 4511
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posted
Favor Minded, did you write all this? It was soooo interesting...Thank you for posting this... ![[Smile]](smile.gif) ![[thumbsup2]](graemlins/thumbsup2.gif)
Posts: 478 | From: Quebec | Registered: Mar 2005
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Favor Minded
unregistered
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I AM!
Just kidding -
As for purposes - Many people are searching - Many lash out at believers because they have no basis. They honestly do not know what faith is.
They think they do, but they do not. They operate oly in that little area that is the world, and have no relevant experience to draw from
You see, everyone knows deep down that God exists - God reveals himself to those who first believe, and have faith.
When he has revealed himself and shown himself strong, your faith is strengthened.
Until this happens, people talk out of ignorance of God and Godly things.
They use worldly experience to make comments.
Remember this - They come here looking (Although most will not admit it) for answers to questions embedded deep in their heart.
Many, like bullies, lash out when really that is their way of crying out. God will deal with them, now or later. When they are ready, they will know.
Some will not be ready til it is too late - At that time they will only be able to grieve for what they ALREADY knew was the truth...
Our job is to be their friend, and show ourselves friendly, and to share our real GOD experiences with them.
Real testimony comes from personal experience with the Lord, not just from those preaching Gospel messages of hope.
Faith MUST be first - Trust and Belief, then and ONLY then will God reveal himself.
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RedPhoenix
Community Member
Member # 4295
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posted
quote:
Originally posted by LaurieFL:
Your entire purpose for being on this board is to provoke arguments. Please don't insult us by pretending otherwise.
As for where I put my faith, I make no apology for it.
How do you know what my purpose here is? Are you psychic?
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RedPhoenix
Posts: 8 | From: Georgia | Registered: Jan 2005
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LaurieFL
Advanced Member
Member # 3794
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posted
Your entire purpose for being on this board is to provoke arguments. Please don't insult us by pretending otherwise.
As for where I put my faith, I make no apology for it.
Posts: 700 | Registered: Aug 2004
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RedPhoenix
Community Member
Member # 4295
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posted
quote:
Originally posted by LaurieFL:
Big-Bang theory or primordial ooze evolution "spontaneous eruption of organized life" type theories are those which prevail among atheists who look to be able to explain how we got here.
As a scientist myself, I find most of those theories to be so ridiculous that they make the person look pretty naive and not very bright. Desperation makes them cling to their insufficient arguments and big words.
I am not trying to start anything here, but I find what you said about people looking "pretty naive and not very bright" funny. This is coming from someone who seems to put all belief into a book, and faith that can neither be proven nor disproven.
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RedPhoenix
Posts: 8 | From: Georgia | Registered: Jan 2005
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Lunarius
Advanced Member
Member # 4205
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posted
Good topic. The way I see it, it's like how God hardened Pharaoh's heart because He knew that Pharaoh would not believe in His power anyway. What I mean is that God can make ANYTHING appear to be what it seems in order to test and teach. Look at it this way: If the Earth/existence really is only about 6,000 years old, then what's with the numerous claims by scientists throughout the last couple of decades stating that "This fossil is from "so-and-so" era" or.. "We can carbon date this bone from a "whatchamasauras" back 62.7 million years" (I'm no scientist by any means, but you get the idea).
Some scientists tend to play God, believeing that because they have scientifically proven something, that it must be, and there is no other answer. Well, regardless of how old the Earth is, we know that since God invented science, and since HE IS GOD, He can manipulate it in such ways that fits his plan - with or without us even knowing. So, in this manner, when a scientist find his "proof" of the age of a fossil, I figure God could have done anything He wanted to the specimen in order to make it appear as it is, allowing stubborn scientists to have their "all-knowing" playtime. Therefore, they have made their choice, and the entire process has been a test/hardening of their heart against God.
Laurie, I figure you as a Christian scientist will know what I am basically saying. Not all scientists are this way I have described, and I don't want to make it into a stereotype, but as we can plainly see from how some of them try and prove/disprove God through HUMAN means, can you imagine what their reaction would be if they found the truth during a lab experiment?!? (LOL!) It might look something like this..
![[type]](graemlins/type.gif) --> ![[Confused]](confused.gif) --> ![[Eek!]](eek.gif) -->
![[crying]](graemlins/crying.gif) --> ![[1zhelp]](graemlins/1zhelp.gif) --> ![[Bible]](graemlins/bible.gif) -->
![[Big Grin]](biggrin.gif) --> ![[angel3]](graemlins/angel3.gif)
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"Life is a song, love is the music"
Posts: 133 | From: Alabama (currently) | Registered: Dec 2004
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LaurieFL
Advanced Member
Member # 3794
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posted
Big-Bang theory or primordial ooze evolution "spontaneous eruption of organized life" type theories are those which prevail among atheists who look to be able to explain how we got here.
As a scientist myself, I find most of those theories to be so ridiculous that they make the person look pretty naive and not very bright. Desperation makes them cling to their insufficient arguments and big words.
Posts: 700 | Registered: Aug 2004
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quakinsorca
Community Member
Member # 4101
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posted
I have not read anything that proves the non-existance of God scientifically. I am wondering what scientists say about the creation of all that exists, if not by God (cause there are some out there that do not believe in God) than by what means was all created? The question was posed out of being curious but I wasn't sure if that was crossing lines with God.
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One person can make a difference in the world - Jesus did.
Posts: 14 | From: Washington State | Registered: Nov 2004
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helpforhomeschoolers
Advanced Member
Member # 15
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posted
I would be curious to hear what you have read that you consider to be scientific proof that God does not exist!
I do not believe that even Science would claim to be able to prove that something does not exisit, because science can only prove that which is empirical... that which it can see and measure or physically evaluate. So in order to prove that God does not exist they would have to be able to see or measure or evaluate God...and so God would have to exist in order to do this.
Posts: 4684 | From: Southern Black Hills of South Dakota | Registered: Jun 2002
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quakinsorca
Community Member
Member # 4101
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posted
I asked that question because I have believed all my life that God exists and have accepted Jesus as my Savior; I have read numerous reports about the the scientific proof that God does exist and Im just curious to know how the scientists that don't believe in God explain all creation, other than the big bang theory and evolving from apes.
Thanks favorminded.
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One person can make a difference in the world - Jesus did.
Posts: 14 | From: Washington State | Registered: Nov 2004
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Favor Minded
unregistered
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posted
If a person opposes even the possibility of there being a God, then any evidence can be rationalized or explained away. It is like if someone refuses to believe that people have walked on the moon, then no amount of information is going to change their thinking. Satellite footage of astronauts walking on the moon, interviews with the astronauts, moon rocks...all the evidence would be worthless, because the person has already concluded that people cannot go to the moon.
When it comes to the possibility of God's existence, the Bible says that there are people who have seen sufficient evidence, but they have suppressed the truth about God.
On the other hand, for those who want to know God if He is there, He says, "You will seek me and find me; when you seek me with all your heart, I will be found by you."2 Before you look at the facts surrounding God's existence, ask yourself, If God does exist, would I want to know Him?
Here then, are some reasons to consider...
1 - Does God exist? Throughout history, in all cultures of the world, people have been convinced there is a God.
Billions of people, who represent diverse sociological, intellectual, emotional, educational makeups...believe that there is a Creator, a God to be worshipped.
Now, the fact that so many people believe something certainly doesn't make it true. But when so many people through the ages are so personally convinced that God exists, can one say with absolute confidence that they are all mistaken?
"Anthropological research has indicated that among the farthest and most remote primitive people today, there is a universal belief in God.
And in the earliest histories and legends of people all around the world, the original concept was of one God, who was the Creator. An original high God seems once to have been in their consciousness even in those societies which are today polytheistic."
2 - Does God exist? The complexity of our planet points to a deliberate Designer who not only created our universe, but sustains it today.
Many examples showing God's design could be given, possibly with no end. But here are a few:
The Earth...its size is perfect. The Earth's size and corresponding gravity holds a thin layer of mostly nitrogen and oxygen gases, only extending about 50 miles above the Earth's surface.
If Earth were smaller, an atmosphere would be impossible, like the planet Mercury.
If Earth were larger, its atmosphere would contain free hydrogen, like Jupiter.
Earth is the only known planet equipped with an atmosphere of the right mixture of gases to sustain plant, animal and human life.
The Earth is located the right distance from the sun. Consider the temperature swings we encounter, roughly -30 degrees to +120 degrees.
If the Earth were any further away from the sun, we would all freeze. Any closer and we would burn up.
Even a fractional variance in the Earth's position to the sun would make life on Earth impossible. The Earth remains this perfect distance from the sun while it rotates around the sun at a speed of nearly 67,000 mph.
It is also rotating on its axis, allowing the entire surface of the Earth to be properly warmed and cooled every day.
And our moon is the perfect size and distance from the Earth for its gravitational pull. The moon creates important ocean tides and movement so ocean waters do not stagnate, and yet it restrains our massive oceans from spilling over across the continents.
Water - colorless, odorless and without taste, and yet no living thing can survive without it.
Plants, animals and human beings consist mostly of water (about two-thirds of the human body is water). You'll see why the characteristics of water are uniquely suited to life:
It has an unusually high boiling point and freezing point. Water allows us to live in an environment of fluctuating temperature changes, while keeping our bodies a steady 98.6 degrees.
Water is a universal solvent. This property of water means that thousands of chemicals, minerals and nutrients can be carried throughout our bodies and into the smallest blood vessels.6
Water is also chemically inert. Without affecting the makeup of the substances it carries, water enables food, medicines and minerals to be absorbed and used by the body. Under the right unltrasonic circumstances, water and sound together can create a nuclear reaction 100's of 1000's of times greater than that of our sun (God Spoke "let there be light" and there was -
Water has a unique surface tension. Water in plants can therefore flow upward against gravity, bringing life-giving water and nutrients to the top of even the tallest trees.
Water freezes from the top down and floats, so fish can live in the winter.
Ninety-seven percent of the Earth's water is in the oceans. But on our Earth, there is a system designed which removes salt from the water and then distributes that water throughout the globe.
Evaporation takes the ocean waters, leaving the salt, and forms clouds which are easily moved by the wind to disperse water over the land, for vegetation, animals and people. It is a system of purification and supply that sustains life on this planet, a system of recycled and reused water.
The human brain - simultaneously processes an amazing amount of information. Your brain takes in all the colors and objects you see, the temperature around you, the pressure of your feet against the floor, the sounds around you, the dryness of your mouth, even the texture of this article in your hand.
Your brain registers emotional responses, thoughts and memories. At the same time your brain keeps track of the ongoing functions of your body like your breathing pattern, eyelid movement, hunger and movement of the muscles in your hands.
The human brain processes more than a million messages a second. Your brain weighs the importance of all this data, filtering out the relatively unimportant. This screening function is what allows you to focus and operate effectively in your world. A brain that deals with more than a million pieces of information every second, while evaluating its importance and allowing you to act on the most pertinent information - can we say mere chance brought about such an astounding organ?
When NASA launches a shuttle mission, it is assumed a monkey didn't write the plan, but intelligent and knowledgeable minds. How does one explain the existence of the human brain? Only a mind more intelligent and knowledgeable than humanity could have created the human brain.
3 - Does God exist? Mere "chance" is not an adequate explanation of creation.
Imagine looking at Mount Rushmore, in which the likenesses of Washington, Jefferson, Lincoln and Theodore Roosevelt are carved.
Could you ever believe that it came about by chance? Given infinite time, wind, rain and chance, it is still hard to believe something like that, tied to history, was randomly formed in the side of a mountain. Common sense tells us that people planned and skillfully carved those figures.
This article only touches on a few amazing aspects of our world: the Earth's position to the sun, some properties of water, one organ in the human body. Could any of these have come about by chance?
The distinguished astronomer Sir Frederick Hoyle showed how amino acids randomly coming together in a human cell is mathematically absurd. Sir Hoyle illustrated the weakness of "chance" with the following analogy. "What are the chances that a tornado might blow through a junkyard containing all the parts of a 747, accidentally assemble them into a plane, and leave it ready for take-off?
The possibilities are so small as to be negligible even if a tornado were to blow through enough junkyards to fill the whole universe!"
When one considers the intricacies of our life and universe, it is reasonable to think that an intelligent, loving Creator provided for everything we need for life. The Bible describes God as the author and sustainer of life.
4 - Does God exist? Humankind's inherent sense of right and wrong cannot be biologically explained.
There arises in all of us, of any culture, universal feelings of right and wrong. Even a thief gets upset and feels wronged when someone steals from him. If someone violently grabs a child from a family and rapes that child, there is an anger and revulsion and a rage to confront that act as evil, regardless of the culture. Where did we get this sense of wrongness? How do we explain a universal law in the conscience of all people that says murder for fun is wrong?
And in areas like courage, dying for a cause, love, dignity, duty and compassion, where did these come from? If people are merely products of physical evolution, "survival of the fittest," why do we sacrifice for each other? Where did we get this inner sense of right and wrong? Our conscience can best be explained by a loving Creator who cares about the decisions and harmony of humanity.
5 - Does God exist? God not only has revealed Himself in what can be observed in nature, and in human life, but He has even more specifically shown Himself in the Bible.
God's thoughts, personality, and attitudes can only be known if God chooses to reveal them. All else would be human speculation. We are at a loss if God does not wish to be known. But God wants us to know Him and has told us in the Bible all we need to know about His character and how to relate to Him. This makes the reliability of the Bible an important consideration.
Archaeological findings continue to confirm rather than refute the accuracy of the Bible. For example, an archeological find in northern Israel in August 1993 confirmed the existence of King David, author of many of the Psalms in the Bible.
The Dead Sea Scrolls and other archaeological discoveries continue to substantiate the historical accuracy of the Bible.
The Bible was written over a 1500-year span, by 40 different authors, in different locations and on separate continents, written in three different languages, covering diverse subject matters at different points in history.
Yet there is an astounding consistency in its message. Throughout the entire Bible the same message appears -
God created the world we live in, and created us specifically to have a relationship with Him.
He deeply loves us.
We have sinned and are under God's judgment, in need of His forgiveness.
God provided a way for our sins to be forgiven.
He asks us to receive His forgiveness and have a relationship with Him that will last eternally.
Along with this central script, the Bible specifically reveals God's character. Psalm 145 is a typical summary of God's personality, thoughts and feelings toward us. If you want to know God, here He is.
6 - Does God exist? Unlike any other revelation of God, Jesus Christ is the clearest, most specific picture of God.
Why Jesus? Look throughout the major world religions and you'll find that Buddha, Muhammad, Confucius and Moses all identified themselves as teachers or prophets.
None of them ever claimed to be equal to God. Surprisingly, Jesus did. That is what sets Jesus apart from all the others. He said God exists and you're looking at Him. Though He talked about His
Father in heaven, it was not from the position of separation, but of very close union, unique to all humankind.
Jesus said that anyone who had seen Him had seen the Father, anyone who believed in Him, believed in the Father.
He said, "I am the light of the world, he who follows me will not walk in darkness, but will have the light of life."
He claimed attributes belonging only to God: to be able to forgive people of their sin, free them from habits of sin, give people a more abundant life and give them eternal life in heaven. Unlike other teachers who focused people on their words, Jesus pointed people to himself. He did not say, "follow my words and you will find truth."
He said, "I am the way, the truth, and the life, no one comes to the Father but through me."
What proof did Jesus give for claiming to be divine? He did what people can't do. Jesus performed miracles. He healed people - blind, crippled, deaf, even raised a couple of people from the dead. He had power over objects - created food out of thin air, enough to feed crowds of several thousand people.
He performed miracles over nature - walked on top of a lake, commanding a raging storm to stop for some friends.
People everywhere followed Jesus, because He constantly met their needs, doing the miraculous. He said if you do not want to believe what I'm telling you, you should at least believe in me based on the miracles you're seeing.
What did Jesus reveal about God's personality? What about God's thoughts, expectations and His feelings toward humankind? Jesus Christ showed God to be gentle, loving, aware of our self-centeredness and shortcomings, yet deeply wanting a relationship with us.
Jesus revealed that although God views us as sinners, worthy of His punishment, His love for us ruled and God came up with a different plan. God would have His Son receive the punishment for our sin. And Jesus willingly accepted this plan.
Jesus was tortured with a whip of nine sharp-tipped ends. A "crown" of two-inch thorns was pressed into his head. Then they secured Him to a cross by pounding nails through His hands and feet into the wood.
Given His other miracles, those nails didn't keep Him on the cross; His love for us did. Jesus died in our place so we could be forgiven. Of all the religions known to humanity, only through Jesus will you see God reaching toward humanity, providing a way for us to have a relationship with Him.
Jesus proves a divine heart of love, meeting our needs, drawing us to Himself. Because of Jesus' death we can be forgiven, fully accepted by God and genuinely loved by God. God says, "I have loved you with an everlasting love, therefore I have continued my faithfulness to you." This is God, in action.
The most conclusive proof that Jesus is equal to God was Jesus' most closely scrutinized miracle - His own resurrection from the dead.
Jesus said that three days after His burial He would come back to life. On the third day after His crucifixion, the almost two-ton boulder in front of His tomb was catapulted up a slope.
The guard of well-trained Roman soldiers saw a blinding light and an angel. The tomb was empty, except for the burial clothes that had been wrapped around Jesus' body.
Over the years, legal, historical and logical analysis has been applied to Jesus' resurrection and the most feasible conclusion still is that Jesus rose from the dead.
Does God exist? If you want to know, investigate Jesus Christ. We're told that "God so loved the world that He gave His only Son, that whoever believes in Him should not perish but have eternal life."
Do you want to begin a relationship with God and actually know you are accepted by Him?
This is your decision, no coercion here. But if you want to be forgiven by God and come into a relationship with Him, you can do so right now by asking Him to forgive you and come into your life.
Jesus said, "Behold, I stand at the door [of your heart] and knock. He who hears my voice and opens the door, I will come into him [or her]."
If you want to do this, but aren't sure how to put it into words, this may help: "Jesus, thank you for dying for my sins. You know my life and that I need to be forgiven. I ask you to forgive me right now and come into my life.
Thank you that you want a relationship with me. Amen."
God views your relationship with Him as permanent. Referring to all those who believe in Him, Jesus Christ said of us, "I know them, and they follow me; and I give them eternal life, and they shall never perish, and no one shall snatch them out of my hand."
So, does God exist? Looking at all these facts, one can conclude that a loving God does exist and can be known in an intimate, personal way.
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Favor Minded
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posted
It is NEVER wrong to study science -
However, there is NO science that can "PROVE" God doesn't exist.
I have been a science major my entire life of "over 40" years
In fact, ANY science that says it can prove God does not exist, can very easily be proven wrong - Even scientifically...
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quakinsorca
Community Member
Member # 4101
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posted
Knowing that God exists, is it wrong to read about "scientific proof" that He does not?
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One person can make a difference in the world - Jesus did.
Posts: 14 | From: Washington State | Registered: Nov 2004
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