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Author
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Topic: where was God part 2?
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wondering04
Community Member
Member # 4113
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posted
Dear Laurie, sorry I haven't written sooner, but it has been sort of hectic and the kids had so many things going on I did not get a chance to get back here.
The trip went nice and it was good to be alone with my husband, something that we haven't had in a long time.
I am right now going up and down in depresion, I guess the holidays play havoc with my mood. Too many memories and things like when I was a kid I used to count the hours, minutes and seconds until school restarted and I was relatively safe.
Christmas is more fun with my kids,but still the memories come.
I hope you are doing well. I am coping day by day.
Heather
Posts: 17 | Registered: Nov 2004
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LaurieFL
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posted
Heather....
Where are you? I would love to hear from you if you get a chance. I am keeping you in my prayers.
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LaurieFL
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posted
Heather,
How did it all go? I am anxious to hear how you are doing. I have been keeping you in my prayers.
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wondering04
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Member # 4113
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posted
back safely. Thanks for your prayers. Heather
Posts: 17 | Registered: Nov 2004
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wondering04
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Member # 4113
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posted
Never thought about my father or mother's fate. I do know that I sure hope they got saved. No one, not even my worst enemy should face eternity unsaved.
Thanks for prayers. I am hoping for a safe trip and that all goes well for my husband.
Hope you have a great few days. You have no idea how much your kindness has meant to me over the short time we have written.
Heather
Posts: 17 | Registered: Nov 2004
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helpforhomeschoolers
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Member # 15
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posted
We will pray for your safe travels Heather, but as to making a good impression hear this:
Psalms 139:14 I will praise thee; for I am fearfully and wonderfully made: marvellous are thy works; and that my soul knoweth right well.
You were made fearfully and wonderfully by the creator of the unverse, when you walk as HIS child you can make nothing but an awesome impression. Just be what you are Heather, the wonderfully made daughter of Almighty God.
PS: your abuser's will was not free; unless he found Christ before his death he is going to pay for his will with his soul in the eternal fire of hell.
Posts: 4684 | From: Southern Black Hills of South Dakota | Registered: Jun 2002
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wondering04
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Member # 4113
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posted
No, your topic has not bored me. I am just prying my eyes open with coffee myself. Have been in a hectic period of time. Just so you know, Thurs and Friday until late I am out of town, so if you don't hear from me, I am not avoiding you, just not at the computer.
I struggle so much with the concept of free will. I still think it is unfair that the abuser gets free will to abuse but the victim does not get to choose to be abused or not abused.
I know that I made awful choices in the exercising of free will, so I am grateful that God gave me a chance. In that light I have to say that I have no right to hold back forgiveness on those who hurt me because I was forgiven much.
But when you see God permitting abuse, then you are told to trust God, to believe that He has your best in mind for you, it is a bit hard to believe. It does not compute.
Yes, I suppose that my past is able to help others. And at least in that way it is not a waste, but honestly what an awful recruiting system, to let people be hurt so they help others hurting. I am sorry. I am not in great shape right now, and am worried about the trip. It is to accompany my husband to meet his boss, and I am hoping I am going to make an ok impression.
Heather
Posts: 17 | Registered: Nov 2004
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LaurieFL
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posted
Haha, You never bore me Linda.
I think we are actually in agreement on the subject of will then, as I believe what I was describing is what you call "man will" or carnal will - makes good sense. I also believe God must call us and convict us for us to choose him and that for some reason, many people I love, simply have not been called or don't hear the call. I shall continue to pray for God to be merciful unto them and call them before it is too late.
It is so neat to me to just "feel small" in God . He is so big, and so infinite and I know it is way beyond my ability to comprehend at all. I have always loved going to see the ocean, because it is one of God's HUGE works and for some reason my feeling small just makes all my problems seem so small too!
Our God is an awesome God!!!
Anyway, Heather, I hope our little side conversation has not bored you to tears!
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helpforhomeschoolers
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posted
I am still having my cofee, I am on my second cup. Yes we do differ in the ideas of free will. I do believe that man has a will. But I do not believe that we Choose God, but that he choses us. I do believe we excercise our will daily in choices of the flesh. I believe that part of our sanctification is the changing of our minds and the subsequent lying down of our will and taking up the will of the father.
But those kinds of differences are the differences that add spice to life eh? God is good! He made us all interesting. That makes our walk together much more enjoyable I think.
Our differences make us individuals and yet these are differences that change within our own person,I think, as our relationhip with HIM changes and our concepts of HIM Change, because our concepts of us also change as our concept of HIM changes.
I find the bigger GOD gets (to me, in my mind of limited understanding) The smaller I become and yet that is OK, somehow it is the way it is supposed to be, until one day, some day, all there is is God.
1 Corinthians 15:28 and when the all things may be subjected to him, then the Son also himself shall be subject to Him, who did subject to him the all things, that God may be the all in all.
I used to think I had "free" will and I made a life out of excercising it!!! I personally came to realize what I had was Man Will (natural, carnal, will) and it was anything but free; it came with a price (consequences); Today, I desire GOD's will and it also is not Free it came with a cost of precious blood....Christ's blood. You can see why I dont have much value in the concept of "free will".
You know I think you are right about another demension. Except we cant even call it a demension because that word demension implies a measurable finiteness. God is infinite and finite simultaneously. Think of the very finite being of Jesus of Nazareth possessing the fullness of the Godhead bodily! Boggles the simple mind I have. The incorporeal become corporeal!!!
God exists before time and yet through time unchanged. He is the beginning and the end of time. He is the creator of all space and matter through which time can be measured. He is timeless and eternal, without beginning or end and also simultaneously the beginning and end. And, All we with our feeble brains can comprehend or conceptualize is linear time.
We can know HIM as Father, Redeemer, Saviour through Christ, but to to comprehend HIM? He above comprehension. He is too big, to vast, too great! Still, he is not so big or vast or great that we cannot through Christ have an indiviual, personal and intimate realtionship with him.
I think I feeling a bit too philosophical today. I better move on, before I bore someone to tears.
![[clap2]](graemlins/clap2.gif) Psalms 118:24 This is the day which the LORD hath made; we will rejoice and be glad in it.
Posts: 4684 | From: Southern Black Hills of South Dakota | Registered: Jun 2002
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LaurieFL
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posted
Hey Linda, hope your coffee was good!
I know you and I differ on our thoughts on this matter, and I doubt it is of big importance, and I also doubt my ability to properly and clearly express my thoughts on it in words.
I think our human minds are too limited to be able to totally grasp and put together the concepts of omniscience (all-knowing), omnipresence (everywhere, all the time), omnipotence (all powerful) and the concept of our human ability to make choices. To many, the fact that God is all of these "omni's" means that the concept of "free-will" is actually false.
I personally believe that free-will is not false, but that our human minds can't understand the difference between His knowing what will happen and HIS controlling what happens. God's omnipresence means He can see all possible choices and outcomes and since He knows all Time, He knows what choice we will make.
But, I don't believe that because God knows what choices we will make that means it is His will for us to have certain things happen. To use some weird terminology, I think of it almost in terms of there being a 4th dimension or parallel paths or branched paths or something....hard to articulate. For example, I believe had I chosen to not have premarital sex or do drugs, many things would have been different in my life.
I guess I believe for all of us there is a Plan A, Plan B, Plan C (I think I am on plan ZZ by now). I believe that walking in the spirit and wisdom of God keeps us as close to His ideal plan for us as possible, but that he is merciful and will often spare us from what we "deserve" when we do stray or wobble.
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helpforhomeschoolers
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posted
Great word Laurie!
May I just clarify, (being the one here who believes all things are within ![[Wink]](wink.gif) G od's plan); that I agree with everything you have said above except that I do not see that He makes "New" plans.
I see that He is omnicient and thus knows the end from the beginning and has planned accordingly from the beginning.
I don't think God is ever surprised and has to formulate plans in reaction to what Satan does or has done.
You are so right that innocent people are often affected by our decisions, whether we be someone following God or whether we be someone evil.
And there are always consequicines for our actions even when those actions are ones that God has needed to forgive and has forgiven. Forgiveness never means no consequences.
I just believe that we all have to come to a point where we can thank God for our thorns as well as our roses. (someone else said that - I don't know who, but I believe it is true)
Heather you said
quote:
I know that the Bible says that God disciplines those whom He loves. But his "discipline" of you seemes so excessive. How could a loving God cause so much hurt and suffering? I still wonder how He could take the lives of kids, or parents who are Christian, His plans seem so hurtful at times.
Maybe in light of perhaps my being previously misunderstood; all those things I lost were things I lost because of consequences of my own or someone else's actions in my life;
but I see them as things he allowed me to lose for his purpose, and thus I see them as things taken from me buy him.
As we all know and have expressed here sometimes we are spared consequences of our actions by God, even though in reality they are diserved.
I deserved to have bore illegimate children and have died from drug overdose or sexually transmitted disease.
Either of those things would have been perfectly just consequences of my actions, but praise God he spared me much.
Though he did allow me to get cervical cancer- a consequence of sexual promescuity I am sure; but he spared me death from it, though I lost part of my body in consequnce to a hysterectomy. Can you see what I mean?
I wondered if either of you have ever studied Job? I love this book; it gave me a great understanding of God in many ways, but Job's loses were not at all something he did, he lost everything and not due to his sin. He was upright before God.
In the end God restored all he had lost and his end was greater than the beginning. But I think Job gives among many other lessons, a picture of the grander scheme of things if you will in the workings of the universe and of the larger battle of powers and principalities that plays out in our day to day lives.
Well Ladies: I have had no coffee this morning and I gonna go put a pot on.
Have a Blessed day all of you!
In Christ,
Linda
Posts: 4684 | From: Southern Black Hills of South Dakota | Registered: Jun 2002
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LaurieFL
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posted
Hmm... This may be an unpopular view here on this board where saome believe everything that happens is part of God's plan. Heather, I don't believe that every bad thing that happens to us (or others) in life is God's doing. I believe many people choose to do evil or unwise things. God created natural law, and consequences always follow actions.
I believe He can tailor new plans to make "all things work together for the good", but only "for those who love God and are called according to His purposes!" We have many in our lives who are not called and don't love God, and their actions affect us. Our own actions affect us, even long after they are done. This is why it is so important to prayerfully consider every decision we make and to walk in the spirit rather than in the flesh.
Examples of actions/consequences:
- Pregnancy or STD's as a result of fornication.
- Financial devastation as a result of laziness or improper use of finances (using too much credit, living above our means).
- Ruined relationships and marriages as a result of selfishness and/or adultery
- Scarred children as a result of selfish divorces or abuse
by a parent
- Lung cancer as a result of smoking
- Death or injury as a result of someone driving drunk
- Victims of the deliberate actions of criminals
Those are just some examples. In my life, I am reaping the consequences of many of my past actions still - things that God forgave me of. I was a mean, competitive, ambitious person, and now my reputation has cost me jobs due to people speaking bad witness of me to potential employers. I did a lot of drugs as a teen, and now my memory suffers - and I rely on my memory to be able to do my chosen profession, so my ability to earn money is being affected. I chose to be promiscuous and immoral, so I struggle now with proper marital relationships. I was emotionally abused as a child, especially by my stepmother, and I have a lot of bitterness toward her because this year she did the same things to me again when I had to go to her for a place to live. I am trying to learn how to forgive her when she is unrepentant. I have nightmares and anxiety as a result of my unfinished business in that relationship.
In terms of making Jesus Lord of your life, to me it comes from wanting to please Him because I know He has done so much for me - He forgave me and cleansed me from unrighteousness. As a woman with a past, you know how often we especially struggle with feeling "unclean." Jesus can take that away!
To me it comes in the way I conduct my life, and He shows me new ways every day I can improve and be more Christlike. It is in apologzing quickly if I say the wrong thing ro do the wrong thing, and asking forgiveness from the person and also from God. It comes with things like putting my grocery cart back in the store instead of leaving it in the lot, or putting back things I decide I don't want in their proper place instead of dumping them on another aisle in the store. It comes from giving money, time, or food to someone in need. It is choosing to spend time in worship and praise and Bible study every day. It is praying and asking for wisdom and discernment in my life, so that I can see the "truth" of things and make the proper, Godly decisions. It is giving up things htat would be a bad witness or interfere in my time spent with Christ.
It is hard for me too. I struggle with depression. Sometimes I am so blue, and aimless all I can do is walk around my house and cry all day. Opening the Bible and reading it is difficult at those times, and honestly, I sometimes fail. I am in what I call my "spiritual wilderness" right now. Everything I ever worked for in life has been taken away from me (as a result of my actions! God tried to protect me for many years, but finally MY actions caught up with me), and instead of giving it back to me now that I have rededicated my life to Christ, the Lord has chosen to leave me adrift and in isolation now, in an area of discomfort.
I believe He is teaching me many lessons and making me grow right now in Him - to develop those deep roots instead of being a shallow plant that will burn up in the sun. I believe all of this is in preparation because He has a ministry for me to do. I am terrified of talking to people, so I am looking forward to seeing how He will help me grow and give me the courage to speak when it is time and He will put the words in my mouth, as he promised His disciples in the Bible.
I guess what I am saying in my ramblings is to be patient and to continue to strive to grow in closeness and obedience to God. Be open to Him, so He can speak quietly to you. He can heal your wounds and scars. He can take what was broken and make it whole again an better even. But, most importantly in my opinion, He wants your service. I have found that I can overcome much of my depression when I let go of myself and focus on doing what God wants me to do and reach out to others and help them any way I am able. We are to be salt to the earth and a light that shines to them!
Maybe you can pray about it and the Lord will lead you to work in helping abused children or in helpingto prevent child abuse by starting a program aimed at education. Who knows what the Lord has in mind for you? Be open to it ![[Smile]](smile.gif)
Love from your sister in Christ
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wondering04
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posted
I hope you do not mind me starting a part 2 for this question. I printed out the topic and it was 60 pages long. But I wanted to be able to refer to what people had written and will write in the future (I hope). I do wish that there was a way to refer to the topics when we respond.
Dear HFHS, oh how I can understand that it is much easier to trust God for a redeemer than it is to trust Him as LORD of my life. Yet, I guess in all honesty, redeemer is also tough if you are like me with many sins to be forgiven. I still apologize to Jesus that what I did increased His pain and suffering. How I wish I could take those actions back.
God as distant, ruler, the God of the Old Testament sure is easier to take than the loving, kind, gentle God that Jesus portrayed when He said that He and His father were alike. I don't know how to deal with a loving God. I guess stern, disciplinarian is easier because I am more familiar with that role.
And obedience, sigh. I know I got baptized in obedience to God's Word, and I do try to obey Him. And God's sovereingty. To make Him LORD of my life is scary. I know that most probably He has my best interests in mind, but I am not used to that. It is tough to really trust that.
Control is control whether it is internal like mine or if it is more external as yours seems to be. It is still not God in control.
Right now God is gentle with me, and I am kind of waiting for the other shoe to drop. When I was in therapy I was so needy I pretty much drove my therapists away, and I am afraid to be that needy with God. I want to do nothing to drive Him away. I can't get over the fear that God's love will be as fickle as human love.
I still operate in a self-destructive mode. I wish I could tell you that the joy of the Lord shines all over me. As it is depression is often rampant, and I live because I will not hurt my kids by hurting myself, but if they were not there, I suspect I would not be on this earth either. Self-esteem is low, and I feel rather worthless. How God would even want me in His kingdom is beyond me.
I know that the Bible says that God disciplines those whom He loves. But his "discipline" of you seemes so excessive. How could a loving God cause so much hurt and suffering? I still wonder how He could take the lives of kids, or parents who are Christian, His plans seem so hurtful at times.
It is funny, but it is easier for me to pray to God than it is to pray to Christ. People say Christ knows what we are going through because He has been there, done that. But I am scared. Perhaps it is the memory of all those sins. I just don't know.
At times I find myself in prayer, but tongue tied, not knowing what to say. Not sure that it is safe to say anything. I sometimes feel like I am on shaky ground.
You mentioned needing being loved for who you are, security, and the emptiness inside filled. Oh how I can relate to that, but sometimes the thought of having those needs filled would scare me. You grow up comfortable with those lacks because they were never filled, how would one respond if they were ever filled. Pure terror!
I have been doing the Beth Moore study Breaking Free, and right now it is put to the side because of the woman's Bible study. There are only so many Bible studies one can do at a time, but while I want to break free from these hurts, there is a part of me that is still used to them. Does that make sense?
God is stable, I just wish that I was on his good side. Sometimes I wonder about what path He gave me in life, and if that means that He isn't that happy with me. And I know this is not a godly thought. I am sorry, but I do want to be honest.
Trusting that God will be there. You know the "jump and I'll catch you" mentality of trust. Most of my life if I jumped, I splatted and got hurt. Can I really jump and God will catch me. What if it is just another bit of abuse that I end up with. I am so scared.
Heather
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