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Topic: Different Denominations
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RioLion
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posted
But what is the alternative to denominations? If you had structural unity like what the Roman Church advocates, you would need dictatorial powers to enforce that unity of belief. You would in fact, need a government much like Adolf Hitler and his Nazis to enforce unity. Perhaps the guillotine would make a comeback as an enforcer.
Denominations are the phase the church is in now since the Reformation with the Roman Church being just one of those denominations having its birth as a denomination with the Council of Trent.
BTW, the Roman Church has yet to denounce it 'right' to execute anyone who disagrees with their doctrine. Interesting! ![[Frown]](frown.gif)
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TEXASGRANDMA
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Member # 847
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posted
I read an answer that I thought fit this question quite well. Why are there so many denomations in Chrisitanity. The same reasons there are many times of cola, personal preference. Some people will only drink Dr. Pepper, some coke, some root beer. Then you have people like me who will drink any kind of cola. I told my son when he was looking for a church (he moved to a new state) to look for a Church that is founded on God's word. I think that is most important.
Some people like a Church service that is quiet and some like more excitement. But the important thing is to have your faith rooted in the Lord Jesus Christ. He is the only way to Heaven. ![[BooHoo]](graemlins/boohoo.gif)
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Luk 21:28 And when these things begin to come to pass, then look up, and lift up your heads; for your redemption draweth nigh.
http://www.indieheaven.com/artists/mm (son-in-law)http://www.myspace.com/mireles
Posts: 4985 | From: Washington State | Registered: Jan 2003
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INRI
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posted
quote:
Originally posted by Shala:
But I enjoy my personal relationship I have with Jesus and will keep it that way ![[Wink]](wink.gif)
I know many Catholics that have a personal relationship with JESUS CHRIST like us Protestants. So just because you're Catholic does not mean you don't have a personal relationship with Him. In fact, as it has been explained to me, Catholics believe in the Real Presence of JESUS CHRIST in their Communion / Lord's Supper they call the Eucharist. They believe that the bread and wine truly become the Body, Blood, Soul and Divinity of JESUS CHRIST. If this is truly the case, then you cannot get anymore personal than that. They refer to [1 Cor 10:16–17, 11:23–29; and John 6:32–71] for scriptural support for this belief. If this were true, what an amazing reality that would be?
I know that the Orthodox, Anglican, Episcopalian, Lutheran and some Methodists believe in the Real Presence of JESUS CHRIST in the Lord's Supper, in varying degrees.
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Shala
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Member # 1675
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posted
It is sometimes hard for me to discern between different churches..and sometimes even churches in the same denomination teach differently.
When we moved and I was looking for a new church I went and I researched all of the churches we were thinking of attending and went to a service at each church. I think that you have to go with the one that best follows your beliefs. I am not sure why they are all different..but I think generally most (not all) are after the same goal..I think its small things that are different. I find that our church (Nazarene) is a lot like Vineyard churches or other non denom.
I think its an excellent question! ![[Big Grin]](biggrin.gif)
As far as Catholisim I think we will wait and see what happens when Christ returns. The arguements could go on forever if you believe what you are saying is right. My husbands family is catholic (My husbands father as 10 brothers and sisters) and I will never be catholic and they finally know (after almost 9 years) that they will never convert me or my husband. I think they are all wonderful people and I think they have really helped their church in a lot of ways. But I enjoy my personal relationship I have with Jesus and will keep it that way
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~Shala~
Don't Make God #1 in your life...
Make God your life ![[Cross]](graemlins/cross.gif)
Posts: 44 | From: Tulsa, Ok | Registered: Jun 2003
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Chuck_Slotter
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posted
quote:
Originally posted by Jenn:
Why are there so many differnet denominations of the Christian church? I was also wondering what are some of the main differences between the major ones. Any thoughts or help would be appreciated.
The fact that there are divisions indicate that the Christian Church represents scripture and monolithic movements like the Catholic Church don't represent the divisions in scripture:
"And ye shall be offended because of me this night: for it is written, I will smite the shepherd,, and the sheep of the flock shall be scattered abroad."(Matt. 26:31) quoting Zec. 13:7
God allowed there to be twelve tribes of Israel because different people need different things.
"Think not that I am come to send peace on earth: i came not to send peace but a sword."-Matthew 10:34
"For I am come to set a man at variance against his father, and the daughter against her mother, and the daughter in law against her mother in law."-Matthew 10:35
"...we saw one casting out devils in thy name, and he followeth not us: and we forbad him, because he followeth not us."-Mark 9:39
"But Jesus said, Forbid him not: for there is no man which shall do a miracle in my name, that can lightly speak evil of me."Mark 9:39
"Now there are diversities of gifts, but the same Spirit."- 1 Cor. 12:4
"And there are differences of administrations, but the same Lord."-1 Cor. 12:5 I think the proof of differences of administrations are in the denominations.
"And if the ear shall say, Because I am not the eye, I am not of the body; is it therefore not of the body?"-I Corinthians 12:16
"..There is neither Greek nor Jew, circumcision nor uncircumcision, Barbarian, Scythian, bond nor free: but Christ is all, and in all."-Colossians 3:4
"...whether in pretence, or in truth, Christ is preached; and I therein do rejoice,"-Philippians 1:18 (see v. 15 and 16 also)
To sum it up:
Christians agree on the essentials of the faith (Eph. 4:1-6)
We allow for differences on the nonessentials (Rom 14:1-22)
We are many members but one body (1 Cor. 12:14-20).
I have other examples but you get the idea.
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INRI
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posted
quote:
Originally posted by helpforhomeschoolers:
I believe the organization is Apostate.
Does that make the organization any less apostate?
If the Catholic Church is apostate, certainly you can point to a date when traditional Christian teachings were abandoned?
Does that make it's teachings like this one written of Bonaface VIII any less Heresy?
“We declare, say, define, and pronounce, that it is absolutely necessary for the salvation of every human creature to be subject to the Roman Pontiff.”
The Catholic Church did give us the New Testament, without them we would not have it. I think the Catholic Church views itself as the protector of sacred scripture in that she has been there since the beginning. They believe that the Pope is protected from error by the Holy Spirit when speaking on matters of faith and morals. So I think by their understanding, if the Pope holds the truth of the Gospel of our Lord JESUS CHRIST and you do not follow the Pope [Catholic Church] you are in error and thus your salvation could be jeopardized because you are in error.
Those were very different times, things are dealt with differently nowadays, not sure if that is taught in that way anymore?
Does that make the people who think they are saved simply because they go to mass twice a year, and were baptised as infants, and claim to be Catholic any less damned than the Pharisee that Jesus rebuked?
Those people you have described can be found in any denomination. Based on the information scripture provides us they may not be in good shape but we cannot judge them ... [judge not lest thee be judged]. I know that the Catholic Church requires the faithful to attend Mass every week and on Holy Days in addition to that. I have read some statistics that state that Catholics generally attend church more often that us Protestants. They teach that baptism (whether infant or adult) is the nominally required first step towards salvation, not salvation unto itself.
The Church would teach that any Catholic [as you described above] would be treading on thin water.
The Pharisee were are righteous group! But Jesus said your righteousness must exceed that of the Pharisee!
There is only one way to do that...
3 Jesus answered and said unto him, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God.
This must be taught above all, before all! It doesnt happen because of membership; it doesnt happen because a priest proclaims it; it doesnt happen because a baby is sprinkled with holy water!
I don't believe the Catholic Church teaches that the only thing you have to do to be saved is to be a member of her church. I don't think they sprinkle water on a baby during baptism either, they baptise in the name of the Father, Son and the Holy Spirit by either submersion or pouring over their head and body when submersion is not available. I think this is detailed in the Didache dated 70 A.D.
The problem with any organization that emphasis is organizational structure, tradition and ritual, obedience to and reverence of man over relationship with Christ and condition of the heart is a stumbling block!
They do not hold the Pope in place of CHRIST, they view him as their loving shepard that keeps them on the right track towards JESUS CHRIST. Their loving name for the Bishop of Rome is Pope which actually means "papa". From what I understand, their relationship is no different than ours towards our ministers (they guide us and keep us on the right track towards CHRIST).
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helpforhomeschoolers
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posted
I believe the organization is Apostate.
I too know a member of the RCC that is a wonderful God fearing woman. I believe that she is born again. I think she is a beautiful example of a proverbs 31 woman.
Does that make the organization any less apostate?
Does that make it's teachings like this one written of Bonaface VIII any less Heresy?
“We declare, say, define, and pronounce, that it is absolutely necessary for the salvation of every human creature to be subject to the Roman Pontiff.”
Does that make the people who think they are saved simply because they go to mass twice a year, and were baptised as infants, and claim to be Catholic any less damned than the Pharisee that Jesus rebuked?
The Pharisee were are righteous group! But Jesus said your righteousness must exceed that of the Pharisee!
There is only one way to do that...
3 Jesus answered and said unto him, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God.
This must be taught above all, before all! It doesnt happen because of membership; it doesnt happen because a priest proclaims it; it doesnt happen because a baby is sprinkled with holy water!
The problem with any organization that emphasis is organizational structure, tradition and ritual, obedience to and reverence of man over relationship with Christ and condition of the heart is a stumbling block!
This is the same thing Jesus said to the Pharisee and scribes....
"52 Woe unto you, lawyers! for ye have taken away the key of knowledge: ye entered not in yourselves, and them that were entering in ye hindered."
In my opinion the RCC does just this!
Posts: 4684 | From: Southern Black Hills of South Dakota | Registered: Jun 2002
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ProphecyEye
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Member # 199
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posted
quote:
When the organization of the church and its offices becomes great and exhaulted in the minds of the members far above the Shepherd and Bishop of our souls, we too have become apostate Pharisees!
That entire argument against the Catholic Church is based on the assumption that 100% of Catholics put offices above Christ. Knowing some very devout followers of Jesus who come from catholic churches, I know this not to be 100% true, therefore your argument is flawed.
Everyone needs to stop making such broad generalizations if we are ever to truly know and understand the world around us and the other people living in it.
Posts: 67 | Registered: Jul 2002
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helpforhomeschoolers
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Member # 15
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posted
quote:
How can you even say this? Even if you do not agree with many of their teachings, how can you say that they are not Christian, especially since if it were not for them we would not have the NT? They are definitely a Christian church.
Keep reading those early church letters and perhaps you will see the problem...
Matthew 7:21 Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven.
Revelation 3:20 Behold, I stand at the door, and knock: if any man hear my voice, and open the door, I will come in to him, and will sup with him, and he with me.
When the organization of the church and its offices becomes great and exhaulted in the minds of the members far above the Shepherd and Bishop of our souls, we too have become apostate Pharisees!
Posts: 4684 | From: Southern Black Hills of South Dakota | Registered: Jun 2002
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INRI
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[QUOTE]Originally posted by Primoa1970:
![[roll on floor]](graemlins/6.gif) You know, I was a catholic before I learned the truth about Jesus Christ. Then when I got saved, I found myself in a pentecostal church.
I know Catholics and JESUS CHRIST is definitely preached in the Catholic Church, I am not sure how you could make such a statement. What is it they said about JESUS CHRIST that you did not agree with? As far as I can tell, JESUS is the center of their Mass, actually they believe that JESUS CHRIST is truly present in their Lord's Supper or Communion which they call the Eucharist. This belief is similarly held to varying degrees by Eastern Orthodox, Lutherans, Anglicans, and some Episcopalians and Methodists.
Also, as the majority of Christians believe, not just Catholics, that baptism is the necessary first step towards salvation so if you were baptised in their church you were a Christian at that time.
Let me immediately dismiss the catholic church from this list....it doesn't even belong in the same category with the christian faith.
How can you even say this? Even if you do not agree with many of their teachings, how can you say that they are not Christian, especially since if it were not for them we would not have the NT? They are definitely a Christian church.
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Cameron
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posted
quote:
....one told me that I had to speak in tongues in order to be baptized with the holy spirit
In my church it's the other way around! Speaking in tongues is a result of being baptized in the Holy Spirit.
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Why do we care what people think of us when we know what God thinks of us?
Posts: 332 | From: Queensland, Australia | Registered: Feb 2003
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Primoa1970
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Member # 1016
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posted
You know, I was a catholic before I learned the truth about Jesus Christ. Then when I got saved, I found myself in a pentecostal church. After about 3 years, I am now in a free evangelical church. Big difference in all 3 of these churches. Let me immediately dismiss the catholic church from this list....it doesn't even belong in the same category with the christian faith. As far as the other 2....let's see....one told me that I had to speak in tongues in order to be baptized with the holy spirit, and one tells me that the gift of tongues has ceased. Obviously some general differences here. Regardless of that, no matter what so-called "denomination" I am in....as long as I'm in the kingdom of heaven when all of this passes away, that's all that matters to me.
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1 John 1
9 If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just and will forgive us our sins and purify us from all unrighteousness.
Posts: 639 | From: Orlando, FL | Registered: Feb 2003
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msl
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Member # 1554
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posted
quote:
Originally posted by Cameron:
I like your analogy, mate!
thanks, whenever possible i try to answer using analogies or objects that make spiritual concepts have more tactile meaning so it is easier to relate and understand them, i learn better that way and i suspect most of us do ![[Smile]](smile.gif)
Posts: 57 | Registered: May 2003
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wparr
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Member # 891
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posted
There are so many different denominations because 1. man tries to create God in his image
2. thinks Father not your will but mine be done, 3. doesn't like what the Bible says so they form a denomination that believes differently.
4. thinks salvation is to easy so they add works to it
5. don't understand God's Grace so they try to put people back under the law.
For some present day examples.
God makes it plainly clear that homosexuality is a sin. The UMC (methodists)are again considering ordaining and marrying homosexuals. (How arrogant of man to change God's rules) This will cause a split and a new denomination will be formed.
Some men think that music is wrong in Church. (while God plainly shows us over and over again how music can be an honoring form of Worship to Him) So they start a church, and convince others to think the same way.
Some men will not accept "Salvation by Grace alone, through Faith alone". So they add baptisum as a requirement to salvation. They people will argue either "by imersion or sprinkling" so they split.
Man is arrogant and is still trying to be God.
Posts: 1203 | From: Eagle Nest, NM | Registered: Jan 2003
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Cameron
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posted
I like your analogy, mate!
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Why do we care what people think of us when we know what God thinks of us?
Posts: 332 | From: Queensland, Australia | Registered: Feb 2003
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msl
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Member # 1554
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posted
think of them like runners, there are a variety of different brands(alliance, baptist., lutheran etc, but in function they are simply a runner, in the basic and base things of these groups they hold the same foundational beleifs...who Jesus is, his work on the cross, that mankind is sinful, that the bible is the word of God...etc...
the basics of a runner, but some runner focus more on cross training(ie evangelism) others have the funky soles that light up or make noise(charismatic worship maybe?) any way they focus on the different features but when it is looked at function wise it is still just a runner... different churches focus on different aspects of the function of the Church(ie family of God),while giving less attention or focus to other areas...ie baptist focus a lot on baptsim...alliance baptises,but has a major focus on missions...
is that clearer or did i muddy the water more?
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INRI
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quote:
Originally posted by Caretaker:
http://www.justforcatholics.org/a10.htm
I will speak here for my Catholic friends who are not here to defend their church.
As Jesus warned us, there will always be tares among the wheat.
Yes they believe that there are both saints and sinners in the Church. Those sinners are in the greatest need of our divine physician, JESUS CHRIST. If they are going to be complacent, would you not agree that it is better for them to at least go to church than not to?
This problem is also found in the Roman Church. What about the 'Catholic' who denies the infallibility of the pope, the sacrifice of the Mass, Purgatory, the Immaculate Conception, etc? Would you consider this person a true Catholic? I don't think so.
I think that is a correct statement, the beliefs you hold and the beliefs of the denomination in which you belong should be consistent with each other in order to consider yourself a part of that particular denomination. It is the same as a Protestant who holds Protestant beliefs to call himself a Catholic.
There is no institutional unity among Evangelicals. Yet despite the many denominations within Protestantism, there is a genuine spirit of unity among us. Not only a unity on the fundamentals of the Christian faith, but also a conscious sense of spiritual brotherhood and love. I say this from personal experience. There is a sweet communion and respect among the brethren despite the different denominational backgrounds.
There are genuine differences between Protestants churches in terms of doctrine though.
On the other hand, the apparent unity of the Roman Catholic church is illusory, as any informed Catholic would know.
Their unity is not illusory, it is very real, not just structural and organizational but most importantly doctrinal and I admire that unity.
The unity is structural and organizational, but there are serious divisions at all levels, especially between the more liberal and conservative Catholics.
Yes there are those groups within the Catholic church that push for change because everyone has an opinion but they are only their opinions, any changes have to get approval from Rome.
Take the charismatic movement for an example. In Protestant circles, Charismatics form separate denominations (and so the distinction from other denominations is obvious). Whereas in the Catholic church, the charismatic groups remain under the Roman umbrella. Their differences from non-charismatic Catholics are hidden though they are just as real as in Protestant churches.
Charismatic Catholics hold the same beliefs taught by the Catholic church, there is no split, speaking in tongues as expressing the gifts of the Holy Spirit is not forbidden in anyway by Rome.
I hope this helps to clear up any misconceptions you guys might have had, I had the same ones.
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For we see through a glass darkly, but when that which is perfect is come, we will know even as we are known,(please pardon quoting from memory).
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njclary
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In the lifetime of mankind, there has always been a diferentiation of beliefs. As God began with Adam and Eve, mankinds ego because of 'freewill', placed his own desires over God's.
Look throughout Biblical history, and note, all the different gods that sprang up. Look at Hebrew history and note how the Jewish Faith split into different factions.[ie: Pharisaic, Sagusaic,[[sic]] and Essene. Each with their 'own' Ideas of how God ought to be worshipped, Prayed to, Taught about, and Scriptural Interpretation.
The same thing has happened within the Christian community. Starting with the 'Way' there has been division. Peter and Paul had some doctrinal differences. As the 'Church' became more organized, Scriptural interpretation became the focal point, as Scholars tried to figure out, what the Early writers were trying to say. Many Scholars tried to 'humanize the Scriptures to suit the mores of the day in laic justification.
The Roman Catholic Church tried to put teeth into the Scriptural authority, to gain control over the masses. In this way only what the Church taught would be the accepted norm. Problem was it got away from the original Scriptural writings.
As the Protestant movement began and Outside Scholars began to reinvestigate the Scriptures that had been held in the Catholic archives, a closer view of God's Word emerged. But over the centuries, Scholars began to differ in how to either implement God's Word or Utilize God's Word.
Again it comes down to man's ego over God's Truth. The Bible is not vague. It holds explicit Truths. Mans interpretation is vague.Mankind reads only that which holds his interest. Mankind reads only that which will cooincide with his position in life. Too much of the time we begin to study something only to presuppose ideologies, before we study and then interpret according to our presuppositions.
Hope this helps.
God Bless
Joel
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ProphecyEye
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posted
I believe it all comes down to the fact that the Bible is so vague when talking about certain subjects and is totally silent about other important subjects. Being the several thousand-year-old translated text that it is, there is also a lot of room for different interpretations about various things. Since there is/was so much disagreement about what the Bible was supposedly trying to teach, people segmented into groups based on what they believed the Bible is trying to teach.
There are probably a few hundred different denominations, many are very similar to each other and differ only slightly from each other on doctrine. Others though have very different doctrinal positions (catholic vs. protestant for instance).
Chances are you will never know who is right when it comes to issues like "age of accountability". Many Christians say that the Holy Spirit will guide you to truth when reading the Bible yourself but if this actually happened, there wouldn't be so many conflicts of doctrine between so many Jesus following churches.
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Caretaker
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http://www.justforcatholics.org/a10.htm
Protestants should agree because they are disciples of the same Teacher and have the same text book - the Bible. And to be fair, there is a fundamental agreement among Protestants about the basic doctrines of the Christian faith, namely, the Trinity, the Deity of Christ, the sufficiency of his sacrifice on Calvary, bodily resurrection, Heaven and Hell, etc.
There are, of course, so-called Protestants who would deny fundamental doctrines. However they could not be considered the legitimate successors of the historical Protestants whose beliefs are documented in standards of faith (such as the Westminster Confession). As Jesus warned us, there will always be tares among the wheat.
This problem is also found in the Roman Church. What about the 'Catholic' who denies the infallibility of the pope, the sacrifice of the Mass, Purgatory, the Immaculate Conception, etc? Would you consider this person a true Catholic? I don't think so.
There is no institutional unity among Evangelicals. Yet despite the many denominations within Protestantism, there is a genuine spirit of unity among us. Not only a unity on the fundamentals of the Christian faith, but also a conscious sense of spiritual brotherhood and love. I say this from personal experience. There is a sweet communion and respect among the brethren despite the different denominational backgrounds.
On the other hand, the apparent unity of the Roman Catholic church is illusory, as any informed Catholic would know. The unity is structural and organizational, but there are serious divisions at all levels, especially between the more liberal and conservative Catholics. Take the charismatic movement for an example. In Protestant circles, Charismatics form separate denominations (and so the distinction from other denominations is obvious). Whereas in the Catholic church, the charismatic groups remain under the Roman umbrella. Their differences from non-charismatic Catholics are hidden though they are just as real as in Protestant churches.
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For we see through a glass darkly, but when that which is perfect is come, we will know even as we are known,(please pardon quoting from memory).
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A Servant of Christ,
Drew
1 Tim. 3:
16: And without controversy great is the mystery of godliness: God was manifest in the flesh..
Posts: 3978 | From: Council Grove, KS USA | Registered: Jun 2002
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Bambi
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posted
you know i would like to know why there are so many different denominations...it makes no sense to me...great question ![[thumbsup]](graemlins/thumbsup2.gif)
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Monday Morning
Brother's Keeper
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Jenn
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Why are there so many differnet denominations of the Christian church? I was also wondering what are some of the main differences between the major ones. Any thoughts or help would be appreciated.
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