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Originally posted by Parousia:

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Originally posted by WKUHilltopper:
I have a prediction: Anything man predicts about what will happen to the world will never come to fruition.

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I agree..and what do we have..many keep on predeicting the coming of the Lord..year after year..and do not realize what His word clearly says...He took care of the business already..We do not have to wait for a Kingdom to come..it is here....it has been here..HELLO temple of God..

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Posts: 3978 | From: Council Grove, KS USA | Registered: Jun 2002  |  IP: Logged | 

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Originally posted by WKUHilltopper:
I have a prediction: Anything man predicts about what will happen to the world will never come to fruition.

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Posts: 68 | From: Texas | Registered: Mar 2007  |  IP: Logged | 

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Originally posted by Eva:

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Parousia- I agree...and you really did not say anything that refuted anything I said..were basicaly on the same page..I just see Matthew 24 fulfilled while you do not

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Parousia,
I think maybe you should reread Matt 24. I haven't seen Christ coming in the clouds yet and neither did the disciplies as he came from Mary in their time. Also read Matt 24:36. Not even Jesus or the angels knew when God would send him back to the Earth.

All this aside, our relationship with Christ is a personal one. If we really got Jesus's message, we are practicing love and forgiveness to all. When the Rapture or Tribulations occur is not the important thing. If we are living as if Christ was our next door neighbor and trying to win souls for him, then the rest is a mute point.
I have a personal belief of the Rapture ocurring soon, maybe in my lifetime and I am 61 yrs old. I personally don't plan to be here when the rest of the prophcies are fulfilled.

I read and study about the end times, but I don't worry about it. I think we should be spreading the story of God's love and mercy and trying to win souls for him.

Your Sister In Christ,
Eva

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Eva..I have read Matthew 24 many times..and I would like to point out a fact many people do not consider...The only bible the disciples had was the OLD TESTAMENT...and they as well as the first century Jew were very familiar with scripture..coming on or in the clouds was not a new language to the disciples..they heard this all before and they also understood what Jesus was refering too..We can read several passages where God came on the cloud..or a cloud..or in the clouds..none of these passages that dealt with the "clouds" were "physical"..the language is symbolism..spiritually speaking..and besides all that...What do you suppose Jesus is today?..is he physical?..Did he retain his flesh?Is he physically in heaven right now? The Bible anwsers this very clearly..as we read..God is a SPIRIT...{Jn 4:24]..it is impossible to see him with our human eyes..TODAY..Do you believe Jesus jumps in or out of the flesh when He wants or needs to?..I am being serious here..

If Jesus is literally sitting or standing on the right hand of God..let me tell ya...that is one giant hand.....I believe Jesus is..but How I believe that is possible..{he is at the right hand} is is speaking symbolically..right hand denotes power...authority...etc...but back to the discussion...

The disciples KNEW when Jesus came..{and he did}It was a spiritual coming..What did Jesus tell his disciples?..Did he say..and when you see the Son of man in heaven?...no..He said..when you see the SIGN...the SIGN Eva.. what SIGN would that be?..How will they KNOW Jesus is reigning in heaven?..the SIGN was when the Temple was destroyed..the old convenant passed...The New installed..Jesus now is the way...no more animal sacrafices..Jesus is now reigning as King of Kings..and the disciples SAW the SIGN..this is what Matthew 24 is all about..it is not about some generation 2000 yrs later..it was directed to the Jews...Matthew 23 points to Matthew 24..and it was all about bringing down the house..the Temple,Mosaic sytem..the LAw...Heaven and earth was destroyed..

I am very comfortable in my walk with God...I do not allow the news headlines to distort my thinking,CNN does not fulfill my Bible..it has been fulfilled according to Jesus..Jesus said..ALL is fulfilled..ALL is a small word that means everything..If I cannot go by the words of Jesus...I am in trouble..Let me give you some words Of Jesus to comfort you as well...

Matthew 5:17-18-Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil.

18 For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled.

Do you believe Heaven and Earth is passed? We better or else we are still under law..

Romans 8:3-4 -For what the law could not do, in that it was weak through the flesh, God sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh, and for sin, condemned sin in the flesh:

4 That the righteousness of the law might be fulfilled in us, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.

If the law was fulfilled..and according to the above scriptures...it was..then we can rest..knowing..heaven and earth did pass

Posts: 68 | From: Texas | Registered: Mar 2007  |  IP: Logged | 

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Parousia- I agree...and you really did not say anything that refuted anything I said..were basicaly on the same page..I just see Matthew 24 fulfilled while you do not

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Parousia,
I think maybe you should reread Matt 24. I haven't seen Christ coming in the clouds yet and neither did the disciplies as he came from Mary in their time. Also read Matt 24:36. Not even Jesus or the angels knew when God would send him back to the Earth.

All this aside, our relationship with Christ is a personal one. If we really got Jesus's message, we are practicing love and forgiveness to all. When the Rapture or Tribulations occur is not the important thing. If we are living as if Christ was our next door neighbor and trying to win souls for him, then the rest is a mute point.
I have a personal belief of the Rapture ocurring soon, maybe in my lifetime and I am 61 yrs old. I personally don't plan to be here when the rest of the prophcies are fulfilled.

I read and study about the end times, but I don't worry about it. I think we should be spreading the story of God's love and mercy and trying to win souls for him.

Your Sister In Christ,
Eva

Posts: 6 | From: Missouri | Registered: Mar 2007  |  IP: Logged | 

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Originally posted by RICK COUCH:
Parousia
You made a statement in one of your posts that reminded me of something that Petter said so I looked it up. You said,
"Who said the earth will burn up?"
Petter did! 2Pe 3:10 But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night; in the which the heavens shall pass away with a great noise, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat, the earth also and the works that are therein shall be burned up.
There are a couple more refrances to this in this chapter so I have posted the entire chapter.


2Pe 3:1 This second epistle, beloved, I now write unto you; in both which I stir up your pure minds by way of remembrance:
2Pe 3:2 That ye may be mindful of the words which were spoken before by the holy prophets, and of the commandment of us the apostles of the Lord and Saviour:
2Pe 3:3 Knowing this first, that there shall come in the last days scoffers, walking after their own lusts,
2Pe 3:4 And saying, Where is the promise of his coming? for since the fathers fell asleep, all things continue as they were from the beginning of the creation.
2Pe 3:5 For this they willingly are ignorant of, that by the word of God the heavens were of old, and the earth standing out of the water and in the water:
2Pe 3:6 Whereby the world that then was, being overflowed with water, perished:
2Pe 3:7 But the heavens and the earth, which are now, by the same word are kept in store, reserved unto fire against the day of judgment and perdition of ungodly men.
2Pe 3:8 But, beloved, be not ignorant of this one thing, that one day is with the Lord as a thousand years, and a thousand years as one day.
2Pe 3:9 The Lord is not slack concerning his promise, as some men count slackness; but is longsuffering to us-ward, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance.
2Pe 3:10 But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night; in the which the heavens shall pass away with a great noise, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat, the earth also and the works that are therein shall be burned up. 2Pe 3:11 Seeing then that all these things shall be dissolved, what manner of persons ought ye to be in all holy conversation and godliness,
2Pe 3:12 Looking for and hasting unto the coming of the day of God, wherein the heavens being on fire shall be dissolved, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat? 2Pe 3:13 Nevertheless we, according to his promise, look for new heavens and a new earth, wherein dwelleth righteousness.
2Pe 3:14 Wherefore, beloved, seeing that ye look for such things, be diligent that ye may be found of him in peace, without spot, and blameless.
2Pe 3:15 And account that the longsuffering of our Lord is salvation; even as our beloved brother Paul also according to the wisdom given unto him hath written unto you;
2Pe 3:16 As also in all his epistles, speaking in them of these things; in which are some things hard to be understood, which they that are unlearned and unstable wrest, as they do also the other scriptures, unto their own destruction.
2Pe 3:17 Ye therefore, beloved, seeing ye know these things before, beware lest ye also, being led away with the error of the wicked, fall from your own stedfastness.
2Pe 3:18 But grow in grace, and in the knowledge of our Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ. To him be glory both now and for ever. Amen.

Parosia I don't know where you came to the conclusions that you have concerning Eschatology but you seem to overlook allot that the Bible teaches to come to the conclusions that you have. I beleive that there are many posts that have been brought up to you that you seem to ignore just because you have your conclusions of what the Bible say's and who it was adressed to.

"The problem is we are reading 1st century writings with 21st century glasses on..and we want to automatically apply every scripture to us today when the truth is..if we read it from the mindset of living in the 1st century..its not hard to see or understand what was going on...in their day.."


From what I have understood of your veiw of escatology you beleive that the book of Revelation has been fulfilled right? If I am wrong concerning this I am sorry but in reading your posts this is just what I have understood you to beleive.
Here is a part of one of your post's to Rogg that has lead me to beleive this to be your veiw of Scripture.

"Rogg-First of all I can tell you what Revelation is..it is an epistle written by John to a audience that existed during his generation..

John was writing to the 7 churches which are in Asia..Rev 1:4..please tell me if I mis read that but it clearly says to whom it is written.I do not read where any other churches were on his mind as far as being in America,Russia,China or any other land.

I do also know not only did John have an audience He was writing to..but we are also told the things He wrote must "shortly come to pass"

I do not agree with you at all concerning your veiw of the book of Revelation being just epistals written by John to just the seven churches that they were adressed to.

"This is simply an epistle written by John to the seven churches who existed in the 1st century."

I am sure that you will not agree with me concerning this but I beleive that the GOD chose these seven churches in a way that only HE could do. John didn't chose which churches he would write to. I beleive that the book of Revalation is the most amazing book in the Bible.

The reason that I say this is because it is the only book in the Bible that I know of that JESUS CHRIST HIMSELF tells the writter, John Exactly what to write,
Rev 1:19 Write the things which thou hast seen, and the things which are, and the things which shall be hereafter;

I have been taugt and believe that this particular verse is the key verse in the book of Revelation. I beleive that there are three sections to the book of Revelation.

I beleive that the things thou hast seen is in referance to what John was seeing in the first chapter verses 10-20 in particular.

Rev 1:10 I was in the Spirit on the Lord's day, and heard behind me a great voice, as of a trumpet,
Rev 1:11 Saying, I am Alpha and Omega, the first and the last: and, What thou seest, write in a book, and send it unto the seven churches which are in Asia; unto Ephesus, and unto Smyrna, and unto Pergamos, and unto Thyatira, and unto Sardis, and unto Philadelphia, and unto Laodicea.
Rev 1:12 And I turned to see the voice that spake with me. And being turned, I saw seven golden candlesticks;
Rev 1:13 And in the midst of the seven candlesticks one like unto the Son of man, clothed with a garment down to the foot, and girt about the paps with a golden girdle.
Rev 1:14 His head and his hairs were white like wool, as white as snow; and his eyes were as a flame of fire;
Rev 1:15 And his feet like unto fine brass, as if they burned in a furnace; and his voice as the sound of many waters.
Rev 1:16 And he had in his right hand seven stars: and out of his mouth went a sharp two-edged sword and his countenance was as the sun shineth in his strength.
Rev 1:17 And when I saw him, I fell at his feet as dead. And he laid his right hand upon me, saying unto me, Fear not; I am the first and the last:
Rev 1:18 I am he that liveth, and was dead; and, behold, I am alive forevermore, Amen; and have the keys of hell and of death.
Rev 1:19 Write the things which thou hast seen, and the things which are, and the things which shall be hereafter;
Rev 1:20 The mystery of the seven stars which thou sawest in my right hand, and the seven golden candlesticks. The seven stars are the angels of the seven churches: and the seven candlesticks which thou sawest are the seven churches.
These verses describe what John heard and saw and I beleive this is what JESUS was speaking of when HE told John to,Write the things which thou hast seen.

I beleive that the things which are, spoken of in verce 19 is in referance to the things concerning the church which chapters 2-3. Chapters two and three are as I am sure you know already the letters to the churches, I beleive that these were actual churches that JESUS addresed, I also beleive they represent the entierty of the church. What I mean by that is that they reppresent the church from the start on the day of pentacost until JESUS calls HIS church home, and I don't beleive that the church has been called home yet. I beleive that Ephasus represents the begining of the church, just as it was the first church adressed and it was also the first church on the postal roght that these churches would have been on. Laodicia I beleive represents the church that will be in full swing when JESUS says COME UP HITHER just like he says to John in the first verse of chapter four.

Which takes us to the things which shall be hereafter, in the last part of verse 19 of chapter one. I beleive that the things which shall be hereafter represent chapters 4-22 of the book of Revelation. Which if we are still in the church age (which I beleive we are) then everything from chapters 4-22 are yet to happen. If you look at the first verse in the fourth chapter you will see the phrase,things which must be hereafter. Thisis the same phrase used in chapter one verse 19 when JESUS tells John to,write the things which shall be hereafter. I beleive everything from chapter four on are what will take place after JESUS calls HIS church out.

Rev 4:1 After this I looked, and, behold, a door was opened in heaven: and the first voice which I heard was as it were of a trumpet talking with me; which said, Come up hither, and I will show thee things which must be hereafter.
Rev 4:2 And immediately I was in the spirit: and, behold, a throne was set in heaven, and one sat on the throne.

I am sure that you have probablyheard all of thisbefore but I encourage you to study these things out for yourself I promise you will end up getting blessed you have GODSWORD on it, Rev 1:3 Blessed is he that readeth, and they that hear the words of this prophecy, and keep those things which are written therein: for the time is at hand.
What I understand about the book of Revalation is very minimal I don't have all the answers but I have been very much blessed by what HE has shown me as Ihave looked into this wounderfull book. I know from what you have said that you beleive that these letters were just epistals to these local churches in Asia.I disagree with you on this as you know and in the time that I did take to look into these letters I see them more as LOVE letters to HIS church.
There is a phrase that the LORD JESUS uses in each of these seven letters that I beleive covers the entierty of the church, He that hath an ear, let him hear what the Spirit saith unto the churches; Do you have an ear? are you in the church? If yes then JESUS is compelling you to hear what HE is saying. See these letters have more than one application,
1. They were to local churches in Asia.
2. They I beleive have a prophetic application to the overall History of the Church.
3. They have aplication to our individual lives.

By the way you brought up the fact that John used the phrase "shortly come to pass" in the first verse of the Revelation. Petter adresses this in the same chapter that I posted above in,
2Pe 3:8 But, beloved, be not ignorant of this one thing, that one day is with the Lord as a thousand years, and a thousand years as one day.

I hope this post is written in an understandable way and in the context that the LORD intended . I also hope even if you don't agree that my attempt at sharing what I beleive the LORD has taught me will be a blessing to anyone else that takes the time to read this.

Jud 1:25 To the only wise God our Savior, be glory and majesty, dominion and power, both now and ever. Amen.

In JESUS name.

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Posts: 68 | From: Texas | Registered: Mar 2007  |  IP: Logged | 

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Originally posted by TEXASGRANDMA:
When has this happened?

Rev 21:1
NOW I saw a new heaven and a new earth, for the first heaven and the first earth had passed away. Also there was no more sea.
Rev 21:2
Then I, John,* saw the holy city, New Jerusalem, coming down out of heaven from God, prepared as a bride adorned for her husband.
Rev 21:3
And I heard a loud voice from heaven saying, "Behold, the tabernacle of God is with men, and He will dwell with them, and they shall be His people. God Himself will be with them and be their God.
Rev 21:4
"And God will wipe away every tear from their eyes; there shall be no more death, nor sorrow, nor crying. There shall be no more pain, for the former things have passed away."
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by closing your eyes to the truth, you are refusing to see there is so much that God has for the Church in the future.
betty

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I have anwsered this..it was not the anwser you liked even though I gave you scripture

Posts: 68 | From: Texas | Registered: Mar 2007  |  IP: Logged | 

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Originally posted by TEXASGRANDMA:
but what you do not see, is the Bible also tells what is going to happen in the future.
betty

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Posts: 68 | From: Texas | Registered: Mar 2007  |  IP: Logged | 

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Originally posted by Rogg:
Isn't it amazing something written 2000 years ago, speaks to us today.
The Lord truly is the same, yesterday, today and forever.

Amen

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Posts: 68 | From: Texas | Registered: Mar 2007  |  IP: Logged | 

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Originally posted by TEXASGRANDMA:
As you know the Apostles wer not raptured out. They did not live in the last days, we do. The reason Jesus did not ask His Father to allow Him to take the apostles to Heaven with Him, when He left was because there was much work for the Apostles to do on earth. Until the age of the Gentiles are up, the Church will still be here but once God says that it is finished for the Gentiles, then Jesus will indeed call the Church up to Heaven in the rapture.

The Comfort of Christ's Coming
13 But I do not want you to be ignorant, brethren, concerning those who have fallen asleep, lest you sorrow as others who have no hope. 14 For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so God will bring with Him those who *sleep in Jesus.
15 For this we say to you by the word of the Lord, that we who are alive and remain until the coming of the Lord will by no means precede those who are asleep. 16 For the Lord Himself will descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of an archangel, and with the trumpet of God. And the dead in Christ will rise first. 17 Then we who are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air. And thus we shall always be with the Lord. 18 Therefore comfort one another with these words.

I do not want to be left behind. The Church will be raptured to Heaven the unsaved will be left behind to go through the tribulation.


Rom 5:9 Much more then, being now justified by his blood, we shall be saved from wrath through him.

1Th 1:10 And to wait for his Son from heaven, whom he raised from the dead, [even] Jesus, which delivered us from the wrath to come.
9 For God did not appoint us to wrath, but to obtain salvation through our Lord Jesus Christ, 10 who died for us, that whether we wake or sleep, we should live together with Him.
11 Therefore comfort each other and edify one another, just as you also are doing.

9 Then a third angel followed them, saying with a loud voice, "If anyone worships the beast and his image, and receives his mark on his forehead or on his hand, 10 he himself shall also drink of the wine of the wrath of God, which is poured out full strength into the cup of His indignation. He shall be tormented with fire and brimstone in the presence of the holy angels and in the presence of the Lamb. 11 And the smoke of their torment ascends forever and ever; and they have no rest day or night, who worship the beast and his image, and whoever receives the mark of his name."


If you are a Christian you will not be left behind. You will go up in the rapture. During the triublation, we will be at the Marriage Supper of the Lamb.

Why do you refuse to talk to your Pastor. Are you afraid to hear the truth?
betty

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Posts: 68 | From: Texas | Registered: Mar 2007  |  IP: Logged | 

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Originally posted by TEXASGRANDMA:
It is funny because my Bible teaches the rapture, the tribulation and in it are the many things that have not taken place and will take place during the tribulation, the second coming, and the millenium.
betty

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Posts: 68 | From: Texas | Registered: Mar 2007  |  IP: Logged | 

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Originally posted by TEXASGRANDMA:
My daughter lives in Texas and I live in Washington State. So you came up with your beliefs without any instruction from anybody, that is kind of dangerous.
betty

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The B.I.B.L.E....all we need to know.No need for a diploma..a college degree..its right here and easy to read in black and white and in red and its availible to everyone..No one has the edge or special permission needed.

Posts: 68 | From: Texas | Registered: Mar 2007  |  IP: Logged | 

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Originally posted by TEXASGRANDMA:
My daughter said it sounded like you were going to what she called a Church outside the UP and kind of doing their own thing. Anyway if the Bible was completely done Jesus would be ruling His Kingdom on earth and the devil would be in the bottomless pit.
betty

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Posts: 68 | From: Texas | Registered: Mar 2007  |  IP: Logged | 

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Originally posted by TEXASGRANDMA:
how can you say you don't play on other's street, to me, when you will not watch the sermons I gave you a link to. You won't even say what Church you go to. So who is the secretive one.
As far me. I have taken studies from the Assembly of God, Southern Baptist and Swedish Baptist and so I have been able to go outside my own street to study prophecy. Have you ever studied a prophecy class that was not at your Church. Like I said my daughter goes to the United Penticostal Church and they also believe in prohecy.
so what Church doesn't?
betty

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Posts: 68 | From: Texas | Registered: Mar 2007  |  IP: Logged | 

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Originally posted by TEXASGRANDMA:
When did this happen?

Heaven Exults over Babylon
After these things I *heard a loud voice of a great multitude in heaven, saying, "Alleluia! Salvation and glory and honor and power belong to *the Lord our God! 2 For true and righteous are His judgments, because He has judged the great harlot who corrupted the earth with her fornication; and He has avenged on her the blood of His servants shed by her." 3 Again they said, "Alleluia! Her smoke rises up forever and ever!" 4 And the twenty-four elders and the four living creatures fell down and worshiped God who sat on the throne, saying, "Amen! Alleluia!" 5 Then a voice came from the throne, saying, "Praise our God, all you His servants and those who fear Him, both* small and great!"
6 And I heard, as it were, the voice of a great multitude, as the sound of many waters and as the sound of mighty thunderings, saying, "Alleluia! For the* Lord God Omnipotent reigns! 7 Let us be glad and rejoice and give Him glory, for the marriage of the Lamb has come, and His wife has made herself ready." 8 And to her it was granted to be arrayed in fine linen, clean and bright, for the fine linen is the righteous acts of the saints.
9 Then he said to me, "Write: 'Blessed are those who are called to the marriage supper of the Lamb!'" And he said to me, "These are the true sayings of God." 10 And I fell at his feet to worship him. But he said to me, "See that you do not do that! I am your fellow servant, and of your brethren who have the testimony of Jesus. Worship God! For the testimony of Jesus is the spirit of prophecy."
Christ on a White Horse
11 Now I saw heaven opened, and behold, a white horse. And He who sat on him was called Faithful and True, and in righteousness He judges and makes war. 12 His eyes were like a flame of fire, and on His head were many crowns. He *had a name written that no one knew except Himself. 13 He was clothed with a robe dipped in blood, and His name is called The Word of God. 14 And the armies in heaven, clothed in *fine linen, white and clean, followed Him on white horses. 15 Now out of His mouth goes a *sharp sword, that with it He should strike the nations. And He Himself will rule them with a rod of iron. He Himself treads the winepress of the fierceness and wrath of Almighty God. 16 And He has on His robe and on His thigh a name written:
KING OF KINGS AND LORD OF LORDS.
The Beast and His Armies Defeated
17 Then I saw an angel standing in the sun; and he cried with a loud voice, saying to all the birds that fly in the midst of heaven, "Come and gather together for the *supper of the great God, 18 that you may eat the flesh of kings, the flesh of captains, the flesh of mighty men, the flesh of horses and of those who sit on them, and the flesh of all people, *free and slave, both small and great."
19 And I saw the beast, the kings of the earth, and their armies, gathered together to make war against Him who sat on the horse and against His army. 20 Then the beast was captured, and with him the false prophet who worked signs in his presence, by which he deceived those who received the mark of the beast and those who worshiped his image. These two were cast alive into the lake of fire burning with brimstone. 21 And the rest were killed with the sword which proceeded from the mouth of Him who sat on the horse. And all the birds were filled with their flesh.

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Posts: 68 | From: Texas | Registered: Mar 2007  |  IP: Logged | 

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Originally posted by Rogg:
Parousia, When did a great mountain burning with fire strike the earth within the last 2000 years?
When was 1/3 of the earth burned up?
Surly a major event such as that would have been recorded in history, scientists would see evidence of such a major event, but they don't, because it hasn't happened yet.
Jesus is timeless and so is the word of God, the Lord can write and speak to a generation thousands of years from when the text was written. He is that powerful. God is at the beginning and the end of creation simultaneously.
These things are not important in many respects, but what is important is being religious or being led by the Holy Spirit of God.

It is all too obvious to see.

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Posts: 68 | From: Texas | Registered: Mar 2007  |  IP: Logged | 

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Originally posted by TEXASGRANDMA:
yes you can include your self in that greeting. For Paul writtings was inspired by the Holy Spirit and are revelant to us as well as to Rome. Just as John 3:16 speaks to us today as well as days of old.
There are so many things in the Bible that have not be fulfilled like the rapture and the second coming.
We are standing on the thresh hold of seeing the rest of the Bible played out. Any day the trumpet could sound for the Church to meet Jesus in the air and the begining of the tribulation to start.
betty

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Betty..you did anwser some but left out the part about Matthew 23..We were discussing the Bible written directly to us and if thats the case..

Are all the woes and me being a two fold child of hell apply to me?

I dont believe you believe it like that either.. ..see..not every scripture is written directly to us...but FOR us...

Posts: 68 | From: Texas | Registered: Mar 2007  |  IP: Logged | 

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Originally posted by Rogg:
Revelation 13:16-17
16.He causes all, both small and great, rich and poor, free and slave, to receive a mark on their right hand or on their foreheads,
17.and that no one may buy or sell except one who has the mark or the name of the beast, or the number of his name.


Revelation 8:8-11
8.Then the second angel sounded: And something like a great mountain burning with fire was thrown into the sea, and a third of the sea became blood.
9.And a third of the living creatures in the sea died, and a third of the ships were destroyed.
10.Then the third angel sounded: And a great star fell from heaven, burning like a torch, and it fell on a third of the rivers and on the springs of water.
11.The name of the star is Wormwood. A third of the waters became wormwood, and many men died from the water, because it was made bitter.


Parousia can you tell me when these events occurred in history? Or do you explain it away as meaning something else entirely from what is says?

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Posts: 68 | From: Texas | Registered: Mar 2007  |  IP: Logged | 

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Originally posted by TEXASGRANDMA:
When did the stuff happen that appears in Revelations 8 & 9?
betty
the reason I suggested you listen to the sermons because you can learn more from teachers and preachers then from me. Are you afraid if you listen to the sermons that you won't be so sure of what you believe. Do you believe John 3:16 and 17 are written directly to us today?
Do you believe any of the Bible is written directly to us?
betty

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Posts: 68 | From: Texas | Registered: Mar 2007  |  IP: Logged | 

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Originally posted by Rogg:
That would be to say the rest of the Books in the Bible were only for the intended recipients at the time it was written, and none of the Bible is written for us today.

This generation, meaning the generation Jesus was speaking about Matthew 24.

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Posts: 68 | From: Texas | Registered: Mar 2007  |  IP: Logged | 

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Originally posted by TEXASGRANDMA:
Time is relative to God. God can be at in the present at any era of time He wants. If for instance He wanted to walk in the Garden Eden with Adam, He could. Only man is restricted by time. In the Book of Revelations, John was taken into Heaven were he was able to witness things that have not happened even for today. If you do a study on the book of The Revelations, you will see so much that has not happened yet.

Matthew 24 is not for the about the time of the disciples but for us today. It is unfortunate that you cannot see that there is still Bible prophecy for today, but there is.
By closing your mind to the prophecies that have not been fulfilled, you are missing a good part of the Bible. That is sad for you. I ask you for your own sake to begin to do studies on the end times and you will see that we are indeed living in the last days.
We are a blessed generation, for our generation will see the rapture and the second coming of Jesus.
betty

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Posts: 68 | From: Texas | Registered: Mar 2007  |  IP: Logged | 

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Originally posted by TEXASGRANDMA:
so you will not go and watch. There is no so blind as those who refuse to learn. If you read the Book of Revelations you will see there is so much that has not happened. I am not telling you what to think all I am saying is watch the sermons and see if you learn something. I watch sermons every week so that God can teach me new stuff.
betty

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Posts: 68 | From: Texas | Registered: Mar 2007  |  IP: Logged | 

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Originally posted by TEXASGRANDMA:
Things are going to get bad. I admit I pray all the time for Jesus to come before America is judged for all her sins.
betty

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Posts: 68 | From: Texas | Registered: Mar 2007  |  IP: Logged | 

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Originally posted by yahsway:
Dear Paruosia,

Yeshua was talking to the scribes, Pharisees, Sadusees in Matt 23. He spoke of the destruction of the temple which did happen in 70AD. All that would remain for those religous leaders would be an empty system of relgion without its temple and sacrifices. BUT,


Parousia-I agree...


Yeshua voices a note of hope in verse 39-
As he looks forward to the future toward His glorious return, when He will then be recognized as King by the Jews and will rule and reign from Jerusalem for 1000 years. (Read Zach 12:10 and chapter 13)

Notice verse 39 of Matt 23 says that they will not see Him again until they say Blessed is He who come in the name of the Lord. They do not SEE Him first and then say it, they say it first and then He comes. Something must happen to change their mind about Yeshua as being just a prophet, but they will, in the future accept Him as a Nation and will cry out to Him and then the end will come.

Now, chapter 24 of Matt deals with the signs of the end times and the End of the age just before His return.


Parousia-End of what age?..JEWISH AGE...


The diciples asked Yeshua in verse 3 "what will be the Sign of Your Coming? Now why would they ask Him that? He was already there speaking with them, He had not yet been crucified, and still they wanted to know what the sighn of His RETURN would be.


Parousia-Yes..they wanted to know the singular SIGN..not signs

Then Yeshua tells them of the signs but look at verse 13 and 14.

"But he who endures to the end shall be saved. And the gospel of the kingdom Will be preached in ALL the world as a witness to ALL the Nations and then the end will come.

Parousia-According to Paul..the gospel WAS preached in all the world..Col 1:6,23


Matt 24 speaks of the future great Tribulation, and the Return or coming back of the Son Of Man Yeshua.


Now you mentioned Peter as having addressed the pilgrims of the diaspora in 1Peter 1. Also look at James greeting in James 1:1

It is addressed to the 12 tribes of Israel which are scattered abroad. The gospel was still going out to the Jewish people. The gospel is to ALL Nations. The gospel was never intended not to be preached to the Jew then or Now.


Parousia-correct..the gospel WAS preached..to all nations..already happened..Col 1:23


Rev 1:7

Behold, He is coming with clouds, and EVERY EYE will see Him. And all the tribes of the earth will mourn because of Him. (this has not happened yet)


Parousia- you left out..those that pierced him..this clearly says that those who were responsible for nailing the nails..WILL SEE him..Now either those who pierced him saw him in their generation or else we have a HUGE contradiction..because no one who is dead can see,they are dead


There have been more Jewish people come to salvation thru Yeshua in the last 20 years than the last 2000 years. The Holy Spirit is at work here. This is what God says about the Jewish people/Nation

Jer. 31

Behold, the days are coming, says the Lord, when I will make a New Covenant with the house of Israel and with the house of Judah(12 tribes, NOT Gentiles)
not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day that I took them by the hand to lead them out of Egypt, My covenant which they broke , though I was a husband to them says the Lord.
But this is the covenant I will make with the house of Israel after those days says the Lord:

I will put my law in their minds and write it on their hearts, and I will be their God and they shall be My people.

No more shall every man teach his neighbor , and every man his brother saying "Know the Lord, for they ALL shall know Me, from the least of them to the greatest of them says the Lord.

For I WILL forgive their iniquity AND their sin I will remember NO MORE."

Thus says the Lord, Who gives the sun for a light by day, The ordinances of the moon and the stars for a light by night,

Who disturbs the sea, and its waves roar The Lord of hosts is His name

"IF THOSE ORDIANCES DEPART FROM BEFORE ME, SAYS THE LORD, THEN THE SEED OF ISRAEL SHALL ALSO CEASE FROM BEING A NATION BEFORE ME "FOREVER"

These verses speak of the Jews, the Nation of Israel. NOT the Gentiles. God is not thru with them, He has NOT forsaken them (even though the Church has miserably dropped the ball as far as they are concerned).

God "blinded" them so that the Gentiles could be grafted in. You need to read Romans chapter 9-12)


Parousia-correct..the Gospel was offered FIRST to the Jew..but as God foresaw..gentiles would be a part of the body..The true church today is made up of both jew and gentile..One plan of salvation..for both groups


chapter 11: 11
I say them, have they stumbles that they should FALL? Certainly NOT! BUT, thru their FALL to provoke them to jealousy, Salvation has come to the Gentiles.

verse 32 For God has committed them ALL to disobedience, that He (God) might have mercy on All ( and you and I dear friend are that "All" which God has given mercy to by the Jews blindness) BUT, their blindness is only in part.

verse 25

"Blindness IN PART has happened to Israel UNTIL the fullness of the Gentiles has come in."

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Posts: 68 | From: Texas | Registered: Mar 2007  |  IP: Logged |