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Author
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Topic: Fallujah reportedly napalmed
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Niedziejkore
Advanced Member
Member # 2773
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posted
quote:
What has me confused is these same liberals that are against the war because people are dying are for abortion....
well, the fact that people are dying is not why i'm against the war. World War II was a war that was justifiable to an extent... dropping the bomb on Hiroshima and Nagasaki was horrible. You can't tell me that the bomber pilots who dropped those bombs were proud of their actions, or wanted to be recognized for that. War is hell, and that's about it. My issue with the war in Iraq isn't that people are dying, it's that people are dying for the wrong reasons.
Now, i know some of you believe that saddam funded the 9/11 terrorists. Well, that's ok. it's your opinion, but the 9/11 commission says otherwise. So, who am i going to believe, the 9/11 commission or FOX news?
It's crazy to some, but I don't see how democracy that comes from the barrel of a gun can endure.
of note however, i should tell you I did support president Bush when he went into Afghanistan.
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Worker bees can leave
Even drones can fly away
The queen is their slave.
Posts: 346 | From: Wisconsin | Registered: Feb 2004
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helpforhomeschoolers
Advanced Member
Member # 15
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posted
Three of us must have been posting at once ![[Wink]](wink.gif) I never even saw your comment Mentorsriddle. I was speaking to RIPP; At the time I posted even Niedziejkore's rebuttle was not there. I am sorry for not clarifying.
Posts: 4684 | From: Southern Black Hills of South Dakota | Registered: Jun 2002
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whitesands777
Advanced Member
Member # 3424
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posted
We can bash people for being against the war but they are not bad people...
People are dying....That is a big deal..Humans created by God in the image of God.
It's a mess.
I'm not liberal or anything like that..But I know why many liberals are against it...People are dying...
This is an ugly situation....You have terrorists killing innocent people...You have their leaders lying to them about paradise for blowing themselves up...
What has me confused is these same liberals that are against the war because people are dying are for abortion....
Go figure...
Hey it's all bad...Let's pray!
Posts: 501 | Registered: May 2004
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SciptureAndPrayers
Advanced Member
Member # 3633
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posted
N.,
Just wanted to give you my support. Sometimes the truth is unpopular, and speaking the truth often makes enemies. The apostles certainly knew that. With regard to how much of this information is true, of course it's hard to know since so much of the media is controlled by special interests on both sides. Nevertheless, what Mr. Black was saying is very consistent not only with many foreign news sources as well as ancient history scholars.
Personally, if I choose to take a side against certain actions that the leaders of my country are taking for moral reasons, I find it offensive and a little frightening to be confronted by flag-wavers screaming 'Love it or leave it!'. Declarations of 'My country right or wrong' and the like are not only dangerous but lead to a form of nationalism not unlike what was seen in Germany in the 1930's. If we truly want to be 'One nation under God', then we'd better act like it; and the only way to know how to act is to know God first.
Liberal, conservative--what difference does that make to God? The question has to be who is serving God and who is serving his own interests. Politically speaking, that question can't be answered in terms of liberals and conservatives, Republicans and Democrats--it would be nice if it were that black and white, but isn't, so we need to get over this kind of thinking and move on to doing what's right before God. If that means standing up for America, then do so; if it means working for change and protesting against injustice, so be it.
Sorry I rambled so long, I just get upset when people's priorities seem focused on anything other that God's will.
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In Christ's love. Amen.
Posts: 345 | From: Rochester NY | Registered: Jul 2004
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MentorsRiddle
Advanced Member
Member # 2108
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posted
Hey N.
Your Quote that you have at the bottom of your posts. That is from Fight Club is it not?
Great book and movie.
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With you I rise,
In you I sleep,
kneeling down I kiss your feet,
Grace abounds upon me now,
I once was lost
but now I'm found.
The gift of God dwells within,
To this love I now give in.
Posts: 1337 | From: Arkansas | Registered: Sep 2003
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Niedziejkore
Advanced Member
Member # 2773
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posted
i know you weren't attacking me mentor
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Worker bees can leave
Even drones can fly away
The queen is their slave.
Posts: 346 | From: Wisconsin | Registered: Feb 2004
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MentorsRiddle
Advanced Member
Member # 2108
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posted
I would just like to clarify that I was not saying that he was not telling the truth. I was only asking where he got the story from so I could read more.
As for my second post. I was not attacking him on his view points, I was only stating that a sin is a sin that has it's equal weight.
No offence was intended towards anyone.
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With you I rise,
In you I sleep,
kneeling down I kiss your feet,
Grace abounds upon me now,
I once was lost
but now I'm found.
The gift of God dwells within,
To this love I now give in.
Posts: 1337 | From: Arkansas | Registered: Sep 2003
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helpforhomeschoolers
Advanced Member
Member # 15
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posted
I do not think that it is right to say these things to Niedziejkore. I am not a liberal, far from it and I voted for Bush, support our troops in Iraq and the war itself; but that doesn't mean I have to paint fairy tale pictures for myself that war is not ugly and inhumane it is both and more. There will be wars as long as Satan is the god of this world and GOD Almighty has not pulled the plug on him yet; so we see carnage and some of it is committed by this government in this land that we love. Turning a blind eye to it and painting for ourselves lily white pictures doesn't make it not so, it only serves to make us look like fools in the world community. War is ugly; people die; there are no pretty pictures of war; still it is a necessary evil and it will be so until the end.
Here is an American source for this story... it was published in the San Diego Union Tibune, I found the article by searching the Fox news website.
http://www.commondreams.org/headlines03/0805-01.htm
Posts: 4684 | From: Southern Black Hills of South Dakota | Registered: Jun 2002
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MentorsRiddle
Advanced Member
Member # 2108
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posted
A sin is a sin. No sin has a greater weight in the eyes of God. The murder of a child through abortion to homosexuality has it's equal weight in sinfullness. The bottom line is this: There is nothing you can do for the next four years to change what Bush will do. So you should try your best to support him, and pray for him to make correct decisions.
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With you I rise,
In you I sleep,
kneeling down I kiss your feet,
Grace abounds upon me now,
I once was lost
but now I'm found.
The gift of God dwells within,
To this love I now give in.
Posts: 1337 | From: Arkansas | Registered: Sep 2003
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Niedziejkore
Advanced Member
Member # 2773
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posted
Ripp, you're such a child.
You really need to read my posts more closely before you accuse me of being anti-american. You have a deep-rooted hatred for liberals, and i don't know why. Liberals love America as much as conservatives, that's why we are disappointed with the Bush administration... because we don't want our country to fall.
I'm sorry, but there are greater evils in the world than abortion and homosexuality.
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Worker bees can leave
Even drones can fly away
The queen is their slave.
Posts: 346 | From: Wisconsin | Registered: Feb 2004
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Ripp
unregistered
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posted
This is not a reliable source. I would take it with a grain of salt from someone who has been bashing our country since I've been here. Yeah yeah, America is evil. Niedziejkore, your hate for this country has been readily seen from all of us, there is no need to breed that hate any further. If you don't like our country, get out. Move out like the rest of your liberal-U.S.A.-hating friends are talking about doing. There's a lot of you I know...
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Niedziejkore
Advanced Member
Member # 2773
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posted
hmm... theres actually quite a bit out there. just google napalm and fallujah
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Worker bees can leave
Even drones can fly away
The queen is their slave.
Posts: 346 | From: Wisconsin | Registered: Feb 2004
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redkermit
Advanced Member
Member # 4059
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posted
As far as I've read on the web, the military is still denying the allegations.
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I would rather be a doorkeeper in the house of my God than dwell in the tents of the wicked. (Ps. 84:10b)
1 John 2:6
Whoever claims to live in him must walk as Jesus did.
Listen Online:
www.wmuz.com
www.997flr.org
Posts: 604 | From: Michigan | Registered: Nov 2004
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MentorsRiddle
Advanced Member
Member # 2108
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posted
Where did you get this information from?
I have not read in the news where this was occuring.
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With you I rise,
In you I sleep,
kneeling down I kiss your feet,
Grace abounds upon me now,
I once was lost
but now I'm found.
The gift of God dwells within,
To this love I now give in.
Posts: 1337 | From: Arkansas | Registered: Sep 2003
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Niedziejkore
Advanced Member
Member # 2773
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posted
Mess-o-potamia in a nutshell: The GNN interview with author Edwin Black
Edwin Black’s new book, Banking on Baghdad (Wiley, $27.95) is a must read for anyone who wants to understand what is really behind the U.S. invasion of Iraq. Working with a team of 30 researchers, Black provides a detailed history of the region once known as Mesopotamia. Black’s central thesis – an accepted truth for any serious student of history but somehow missing from the corporate news narrative – is that wars are fought for selfish, largely economic reasons, and America’s recent expedition into Iraq is no different.
Black is best known for his inflammatory book IBM and the Holocaust, in which he documents how the IBM provided highly specialized machines that enabled the Nazis to carry out genocide (GNN collaborated with Black for a NewsVideo of the same name). The documentation in Banking on Baghdad is equally as exhaustive. He uncovers for the first time a secret 1928 agreement in which western powers and their oil conglomerate proxies carved up most of the Middle East for their own use, with little or no thought for the people whose oil lay under their land.
Former terror czar Richard A. Clarke writes, “Banking on Baghdad underlines Iraq’s long history of exploitation by Western powers and powerful corporations struggling for advantage and domination. His impressive analysis, which included looking at more than 50,000 original documents and hundreds of scholarly books and articles, provides a comprehensive history of Iraq that explains why the West’s record in the region so complicates nation-building there today.”
Recently, Black talked with GNN’s editor Anthony Lappé about Iraq’s bloody history, the secret Red Line agreement and why the U.S. project is doomed:
GNN: When we were in Iraq we met a tank commander in Samarra who told us that the reasons for war haven’t changed in 10,000 years, it’s always been about opening up new markets and securing trade routes. Isn’t that what your new book Banking on Baghdad is about?
Black: I only have one correction. It’s been about 7,000 years. He’s right about the rest.
GNN: You challenge a lot of the conventional thinking about Iraq, including the notion that Iraq was the “Cradle of Civilization.”
Black: Iraq is not the Cradle of Civilization. In point of fact, Jericho had a thriving civilization some 9,000 to 11,000 years ago. There was a civilized and spiritual community in the south of France painting animals on the cave walls 15,000 to 30,000 years ago, paintings that still captivate us millennia later. Some 60,000 years ago, we see civilized family and tribal relationships in among Southern African cave dwellers.
What made Iraq – or ancient Mesopotamia – the “Cradle of Civilization” was a comment by a British imperialist, Sir Henry Rawlinson, on April 8, 1867, during a discussion at the Royal Geographical Society in London. He was speaking about how much of a prize Mesopotamia would be. Mesopotamia – that V-shaped region between the Tigris and Euphrates rivers – has been sought after by numerous imperial powers.
Looking back, Mesopotamia developed many ancient codes, such as the so-called Code of Hammarubi. Many people refer to this as the first code of justice. But it was really a code for commerce: how much are you compensated when your slave loses a tooth, how much would you have pay the boatman to take you across the river, what is a fair price to store grain. So these commercial values became social and justice values, hence the thought that this was the mergence of civilization.
Because the land attained a level of commercial activity previously unknown, Mesopotamia became regarded as the “Cradle of Civilization,” but it should really be known as the “Cradle of Commerce.”
GNN: There was a time under the Ottoman Empire in which Mesopotamia became a sort of imperial backwater until the advent of the age of oil.
Black: Yes. There were only two attractions for the western world in this region: geography and geology. During the Ottoman regime, it was a midpoint between India and Europe, so Britain exercised a sphere of influence over Basra and the entire Gulf. The Ottoman’s in far-off Istanbul found the three provinces of Mesopotamia—mostly Kurdish Mosul, mostly Sunni Arab Baghdad and mostly Shiite Arab Basra—to be ungovernable, lawless and unprofitable. Hence, these provinces were only nominally under Turkish rule.
Remember, Mesopotamia was not always an Arab or Islamic land. There were hundreds of thousands of Jews in that land going back 2600 years—a thousand years before the Arabs or Islam came to the country. There were Assyrians, Armenians, Chaldeans, Yazidis. But as a result of the Islamic Conquest in the 7th century AD, the majority was subsumed by a new people and a new dominant religion.
Moving forward, after commercial petroleum was discovered in Titusville Pennsylvania in 1859, oil became the most important commodity in the world. Here was have the second attraction—and it was a fatal attraction.
GNN: One the most memorable parts of your book is all the creative ways you describe how people in this region found to massacre each other.
Black: They had centuries of genocide, between Sunni and Shi’a, Mongol and Arabs, against Assyrians, Armenians. I have not found a generation going back 7,000 years that was not visited by extraordinary violence and vengeance. There has never been a destructive event so severe to convince people to stop victimizing their neighbors. The people of Iraq are experts at victimizing their perceived victimizers. We haven’t learned that yet.
Perhaps our biggest single mistake has been our attempt to remake that land in our image. These people do not want democracy. They are an intolerant people that oppresses half their community—women. Yes, since Iraq was invented in 1920, the western nations have attempted to create a pluralistic and democratic nation where one has never existed to have some ruler sign on the dotted line to legitimize their oil concessions and to create an atmosphere of democracy to promote the unimpeded flow of oil. I assure you, when the people of this region hear the word “democracy” they hear a code word for “you people want to take our oil.”
GNN: What was the Red Line agreement?
Black: The Red Line Agreement was the secret agreement between the U.S France and England to divide up Mideast oil. Because western oil companies had invented these countries, they weren’t even able to name the map marks, and so they simply a red line around a map of the larger Middle East, saying everything within this line shall be under our control. It became the biggest monopoly of all time. That map appears for first time in my book on the inside front cover.
Now to specifics. The Red Line Agreement was in truth the dissection and ingestion of the Turkish Petroleum Company, which was seized from German interests and surrogates. The four companies that took over were the Anglo Person Oil Company, now known as British Petroleum; British Shell, that is an anglicized and London-controllable Royal Dutch Shell; French CFP, which is now Total; and the U.S. designated an regulated cartel, the Near-East Development Corporation which was owned by Standard Oil and several other American companies.
The genesis of the Red Line Agreement and its aftermath constitute the saga of Europe and America’s involvement with Iraq and its consequence.
GNN: It’s amazing that people don’t know this history. They can still buy the WMD claims or that we’re there to liberate the Iraqi people.
Black: We don’t understand it. In the last century alone it was a huge history, going back 90 years. We are so focused on a single tree, and we can’t see the forest. Now we’re stuck in these woods and the thickets—it will be nearly impossible to extricate ourselves. It’s not taught. If I had to blame someone, I would blame the media. I’m just reminded of the Roman Empire, having our vicarious gladiator shows, and our cultural orgies, while the empire is crumbling. We are distracted. All empires fall when the people are distracted.
For 90 years, we’ve been using our best corporate surrogates, our best diplomats and best armies to retain our access to the oil. In 1917, the American Petroleum Institute told the Wilson administration that we have only forty more years of oil in the states and that we’d need to go to Iraq. In 1918, when the British seized the first two thirds of Iraq, the British General stood at the gates of Baghdad and said, “Our army has come not as conquerors but as liberators.” We haven’t even changed the vocabulary.
GNN: In our book True Lies, Stephen Marshall and I make a similar point about the true nature of the rationale for war, without, of course, the incredible historical detail you have in your book. We also raise the question of whether deep down inside Americans actually do know what it’s all about, but are in denial about it because they want to continue to live the lifestyle they are used to and they know controlling the oil is the key.
Black: Though now I think Americans are thirsting for this information. A lot of people are reading my book and listening to what I have to say because it’s coming from someone devoid of a political agenda in which I clarify the dim prospects for democracy in Iraq, and because I was also in favor of Saddam Hussein being removed from office.
Perhaps if we had gone in Monday and left on Thursday it would have been a different story. But we stayed.
If only there was a Polish person in the White House to give advice. The Russians liberated Poland from the most heinous monsters in history, but became the most hated people in Poland’s history because they stayed.
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Worker bees can leave
Even drones can fly away
The queen is their slave.
Posts: 346 | From: Wisconsin | Registered: Feb 2004
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Niedziejkore
Advanced Member
Member # 2773
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posted
Nov 28 2004
US uses banned weapon ..but was Tony Blair told?
By Paul Gilfeather Political Editor
US troops are secretly using outlawed napalm gas to wipe out remaining insurgents in and around Fallujah.
News that President George W. Bush has sanctioned the use of napalm, a deadly cocktail of polystyrene and jet fuel banned by the United Nations in 1980, will stun governments around the world.
And last night Tony Blair was dragged into the row as furious Labour MPs demanded he face the Commons over it. Reports claim that innocent civilians have died in napalm attacks, which turn victims into human fireballs as the gel bonds flames to flesh.
Outraged critics have also demanded that Mr Blair threatens to withdraw British troops from Iraq unless the US abandons one of the world's most reviled weapons. Halifax Labour MP Alice Mahon said: "I am calling on Mr Blair to make an emergency statement to the Commons to explain why this is happening. It begs the question: 'Did we know about this hideous weapon's use in Iraq?'"
Since the American assault on Fallujah there have been reports of "melted" corpses, which appeared to have napalm injuries.
Last August the US was forced to admit using the gas in Iraq.
A 1980 UN convention banned the use of napalm against civilians - after pictures of a naked girl victim fleeing in Vietnam shocked the world.
America, which didn't ratify the treaty, is the only country in the world still using the weapon. [Source]
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Worker bees can leave
Even drones can fly away
The queen is their slave.
Posts: 346 | From: Wisconsin | Registered: Feb 2004
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