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Author
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Topic: resolving the issue of war
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WhiteEagle
Advanced Member
Member # 3728
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posted
quote:
Originally posted by whitesands777:
It's like what used to be a food that was good for you 10 years ago is now a deadly killer and you should avoid it...So which is it ? Confusion for everyone.
LOL! I agree even the food is confusing! I just bought a bunch of bananas. One of the little stickers on the bunch reads: "diets rich in fruits and vegetables may reduce the risk of some types of cancer and other chronic diseases."-National Cancer Institute. ![[BooHoo]](graemlins/boohoo.gif)
DUH?! Does that mean I can later sue the national cancer institute if I develop cancer later on ,even after eating all my fruits and veggies?
It's just getting too ridiculous! ![[Roll Eyes]](rolleyes.gif)
My advice is to eat a balanced diet; ![[crying]](graemlins/crying.gif) period. Forget all the fads.
Posts: 1392 | From: Maine | Registered: Aug 2004
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WhiteEagle
Advanced Member
Member # 3728
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posted
quote:
Originally posted by whitesands777:
White Eagle...I've heard of these reports too and it adds to the confusion...
I'm not declaring that I know why we are there...I really don't know now...WMD, Iraqi Freedom, now the oil for gun thing
Confusion is a weapon used by Satan. I agree it is very confusing, and I can't pretend to "know" anything just by what we hear from the media. Even our news media is very biased and slanted. It's also very difficult to get "just the facts", even when one attempts to read many different sources of information, and while I support Pres. Bush and the war, He doesn't "help" me to understand it either.
1) I don't believe America is out to conquer and oppress the world.
If anyone tries to bring that lie, I will know they are on the enemy's side.
2) I also realize that America is not perfect.
We make mistakes, and I feel we still strive to correct the mistakes we may make.
3)People who use methods that murder innocent people, such as suicide bombers, 9-11 attacks, behead innocent people who are not even soliders, are NOT on the Good Guys side.
4)Leaders who urge their poor to commit suicide for their god, while the leaders live in wealth and luxery, are NOT Good Guys.
5)Islam is committing genocide in Dafur, Sudan and they have previously killed many in Africa in other countries, such as the Ivory Coast.
6)I ask myself; why do Liberals in America have the same ideolgy as the Islamic terrorist and France?
7) Yes, it is about oil also. America would grind to a halt and many of us would die without enough oil to heat our homes in the winter. (I think that's a worthy cause)
8)We're there to help the Iraqi people start a democracy, and be a self-governing country. Saddam was evil, and he was dangerous. He was just like Arafat, hiding behind "nice" words and denying his real intentions and funding terrorism under the table. He allowed Islamic terrorists free reign and passage in his country, and he allowed them to set up training camps, prior to 9-11.
Our own country fought for 8 years from 1775-1783 to finally win the war for freedom from King George's England. Why do we expect to accomplish that in less than 1 year for Iraq?
If all we wanted was the OIL, we could just take it. We aren't doing that. We are fighting a dirty and dangerous surgical war house to house to try to limit civilian deaths. We don't fire on their mosques, unless the terrorists are firing on our soldiers first from a mosque. Even then: ( I think; why not just bomb that mosque from the air with a MOAB or a daisey cutter?) But we don't. Our soldiers are putting their lives in harms way, out of respect for the beliefs of Islam, and the Iraqi people.
In spite of all the propaganda, and hype from people who say America is evil, somehow those facts shine through.
Posts: 1392 | From: Maine | Registered: Aug 2004
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whitesands777
Advanced Member
Member # 3424
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posted
White Eagle...I've heard of these reports too and it adds to the confusion...
I'm not declaring that I know why we are there...I really don't know now...WMD, Iraqi Freedom, now the oil for gun thing.
I'm clueless and don't know what the truth is anymore...
The same media that spins information about the election is the same media that is giving us info on Iraq...
It's like what used to be a food that was good for you 10 years ago is now a deadly killer and you should avoid it...So which is it ? Confusion for everyone.
I for one don't have much confidence in the mainline media today...I saw their agenda on the election and I see the same agenda with just about everything else...
Posts: 501 | Registered: May 2004
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WhiteEagle
Advanced Member
Member # 3728
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posted
quote:
Originally posted by Niedziejkore:
i believe the Iraq war to have been unnecessary, misguided, illogical, poorly-planned, decietful, etc.
Let me share what I have seen come into the Light due to Pres. Bush invading Iraq:
We found out that France, Germany, And Russia all were in cohoots with Saddam and the UN.
We found out that Saddam was using the OIL of Food program to fund terrorism around the world, especially in Israel, and toward America.
We can now clearly see that France is NOT an ally to America any longer. Their true nature was exposed by the Iraq war.
One one takes a firm stand as Pres. Bush did against Terrorism, the snakes come out from under their rocks, and the truth comes out.
We see the UN as the self-serving entitiy that it really IS.
We can see clearly as to who are true allies are, such as England, Spain, and other countries in Europe and South America, also Japan,S. Korea, Australia, and many others.
The Iraqi War has shown the light on more truth of the deception of others countries and their part in allowing terrorism to thrive. Our soliders and those of our allies are truly fighting the fight of Freedom, and their cause is worthy and noble.
Posts: 1392 | From: Maine | Registered: Aug 2004
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Favor Minded
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posted
In general,
and as with most Christians who speak their minds rather than their Spirit Led hearts,
it is a questions of "what does God Want to Do" -
Does God want a War with IRAQ?
Yes - It is prophesied...
Is our current situation one to be found in the Word?
Yes -
It is Prophesied.
Should we invade each other?
YES!!!
If it means standing up for what is morally right, and we have the means to do so, then absolutely YES!
We are SO cozy and comfy here, while the rest of the world is dying, oppressed, starving, being shot and killed by armed invaders ALL day long.
If we have the means to protect, then we should.
I believe "Christians" need ot spend more time praying about what to say and alot less time judging whether the war is right or not.
God said IT WOULD happen - It has to happen. And we should be proud of the difference it is making.
Does a good preacher save the whole world?
NO!
He does it by speaking Gods word, and helping One Soul at a time...
Can we save the World?
Probably Not -
Can we Help?
Absolutely!!
How??
One country at a time...
The reason anyone who thinks they know better is not in the position to make those decisions, is simple -
God puts who he will in those positions to make those decisions.
The ones who think they know better are not there because they do not.
If God has not placed you in that position, then you should simply pray for those being oppressed, for those standing for what is right, and for Gods will to be done.
Not one of you or me is in a position to judge or play God - You should stop trying and you should really stop trying to act as though you could do a better job...
If that were true,
Then God would have Promoted YOU!
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Niedziejkore
Advanced Member
Member # 2773
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posted
i believe the Iraq war to have been unnecessary, misguided, illogical, poorly-planned, decietful, etc.
We are not known as the "do-gooders" of the world anymore because of Reagan, Bush, Clinton, and Bush. We're going down the wrong road, and it's not because of morals or our society... it's because we allow the government to get away with this kind of stuff.
americans are being misled by our news organizations... we're afraid... and we want to be comforted.
Oh! Who can we turn to? Our government! Our government will protect us! Let's just trust them... and have faith in George Bush.
FEAR WILL KEEP THEM IN LINE!
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Worker bees can leave
Even drones can fly away
The queen is their slave.
Posts: 346 | From: Wisconsin | Registered: Feb 2004
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Ripp
unregistered
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posted
I'm done with this post. Conclude what you like about my remarks. I care not to waste any more time on this issue. It is obvious that many on the left that believe war is unecessary are not going to change their minds. So I will agree to disagree. I believe war is necessary to eliminate evil. Nobody likes it but it's necessary. Abortion is wrong but has no connection to defending our country.
Oh and if you want your original question answered to a 'T' which I guess you didn't get from the first time, I'll try again.
quote:
So, my question is would a country be justified in invading us because our government allows the atrocity of abortion ?
Illogical, disturbing to me, misguided, wrong, unrelated, dilusional. That's my take. People are killed all over the world, so should we all invade each other? What kind of nutty question is this? We are talking about defending our country from evil terrorists who want us dead. Why is this so hard for people on the left to understand. Ok that's it. Nothing is going to be accomplished.
God bless. ![[Prayer]](graemlins/prayer.gif)
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whitesands777
Advanced Member
Member # 3424
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posted
Ripp wrote : quote:
Should we invade Britain because there was a murder? Should we invade Japan because someone was killed? Should we invade Canada because someone was run over? Should we invade Mexico because someone was killed in a bar fight?
What in the...
Speechless...just speechless...
It's time to wake up folks. Enough of this delusional thinking.
Abortion CANNOT be dealt with on the same level as someone flying a 747 into a building. Nutty...
Under your precept, we should go out and mow down all the abortion doctors. I am just...
Ripp, it was your precept...You obviously didn't read or comprehend my post or remember what you said previously...Here it is in your own words...
Ripp wrote: quote:
Are you suggesting we should have let Saddam continue to murder thousands and leave them to rot in pits?
You said the above as justification for the Iraq war...And no, I believe murder is wrong...period.
If you will read my post again.......I said that justifying the war Because Saddam is a murderer is the same excuse people use to kill abortion doctors...Wparr said this as well...Look up a few posts and read it.
By your own statement you declared this...Not me..Go back and read my post again.
I said we have millions of murders in this country called abortions...Our government allows it....Because you talked of Saddams murders (which are wrong) as a reason to go to war I gave the comparison and asked the question and with a little more explanation this time, "would that give another country the right to come and dismantle our government through war because our government allows the killings by the millions of innocent babies ?"
Do you see the analogy ? We have laws that allow this atrocity called abortion...It's an evil law. And tell me where I implied it's o.k. to kill abortion doctors...Actually, if you will read my posts I implied that killing abortion doctors is wrong. Here in black and white is what I said.
whitesands777 wrote: quote:
It's like Wparr said...People use the same excuse to kill abortion doctors...They are killing innocent babies but I'm not going to go and kill the doctor....I'm going to pray.
In my opinion, I don't think any country has the right to invade us...But our country is using the murder precept to invade other coutries. Just as you have stated.
Ripp wrote: quote:
Abortion CANNOT be dealt with on the same level as someone flying a 747 into a building. Nutty...
That's a start Ripp....But you forget the whole reason I asked the question..You said Saddam was a murderer and justified the reason for the war...I wasn't even talking about the twin towers...Wasn't that what Afghanistan was for ?Look up a few posts and there it is in black and white I did not compare abortion with flying 747's into two towers...I compared your statement and another persons statement about Saddam's murders to abortions.
![[1zhelp]](graemlins/1zhelp.gif)
I think an important lesson can be learned here...When we respond to someones post it may be a good idea to read the entire post before responding...
Posts: 501 | Registered: May 2004
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Gramajo320
unregistered
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posted
Ripp,
Great postings and thank you! God bless you!
In Christ's love,
Gramajo320
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Ripp
unregistered
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posted
whitesands777 wrote:
quote:
So, my question is would a country be justified in invading us because our government allows the atrocity of abortion ?
Should we invade Britain because there was a murder? Should we invade Japan because someone was killed? Should we invade Canada because someone was run over? Should we invade Mexico because someone was killed in a bar fight?
What in the...
Speechless...just speechless...
It's time to wake up folks. Enough of this delusional thinking.
Abortion CANNOT be dealt with on the same level as someone flying a 747 into a building. Nutty...
Under your precept, we should go out and mow down all the abortion doctors. I am just...
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whitesands777
Advanced Member
Member # 3424
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posted
It's like Wparr said...People use the same excuse to kill abortion doctors...They are killing innocent babies but I'm not going to go and kill the doctor....I'm going to pray.
It's spiritual deception..Just like slavery back in the day...Those guys were Christian but they wrongly justified it because slavery is mentioned in the Bible...
Only Jesus knows how to solve these problems
Posts: 501 | Registered: May 2004
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WhiteEagle
Advanced Member
Member # 3728
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posted
quote:
Originally posted by whitesands777:
Abortion is murder in my opinion...
So, my question is would a country be justified in invading us because our government allows the atrocity of abortion ?
Do you see what I'm saying ? I'm not comparing war to abortion, I'm comparing the justification for war that was used...
Interesting question as I have often felt that Abortion on Demand is similar to the Slavery Issue in the 1860's. America had a Civil war over slavery and state's rights. The Abortion issue could certainly be a valid reason, but since it's legal the ones who want abortion on demand have no reason to fight, and the ones who believe it is murder such as we, are trying to abolish abortion via non-violent means through education and changing one person's mind at a time.
Posts: 1392 | From: Maine | Registered: Aug 2004
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whitesands777
Advanced Member
Member # 3424
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posted
Well, I checked out that website and it sounds like the preterist view which I cannot agree with...
The swords into plowshares statement happens AFTER Jesus Christ returns...
quote:
Whitesands777 and WParr,
You cannot compare war to abortion! Those are two very separate issues entirely!
I was not comparing war to abortion...Ripp and another said that the war is justified because their leaders killed people...Our government has laws that allows the killing of innocent babies...
Abortion is murder in my opinion...
So, my question is would a country be justified in invading us because our government allows the atrocity of abortion ?
Do you see what I'm saying ? I'm not comparing war to abortion, I'm comparing the justification for war that was used...
Posts: 501 | Registered: May 2004
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Gramajo320
unregistered
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posted
WParr,
I truly was not personally judging you and I want you to know that. Peace be with you and God bless you and also everyone on this board.
In Christ's love,
Gramajo320
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RioLion
unregistered
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posted
becauseHElives - While I would agree that God is the author of history and He determines what will be or what will not be. We get that lesson in our study of the sovereignty of God. But we as instruments of His will, have a role to play.
The soldier that gave us the freedom we have in this country is simply a tool in the hands of God. And we can be thankful that God has given us leaders that can see the wisdom of maintaining a strong military.
But without His blessings we can really do nothing.
Wparr - I do not view what gramajo320 stated is really a personal judgment against you at all. What is being discussed is your comments regarding the issues. Sometimes, people become overly sensitive and in light of your stated background, I can see why. We have all traveled different paths before we came to know Christ, and that is why to some extent, we view things differently. Peace!
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becauseHElives
Advanced Member
Member # 87
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posted
quote:
RioLion
It was the soldier that gave us most of the freedoms we currently enjoy in this country today, including the freedom to worship, as we want.
It is Yahweh that has given us all the freedoms we currently enjoy.
How proud and arrogant for anyone to think we enjoy freedom because we deserve it? (this is not directed at you specifically RioLion but to all that think man has acheived anything outside of Yahweh's Sovereign Purposes for mankind.)
The Nation (the people that make up a Nation), walk in the liberty Yahweh chooses to give them. America has been a great Nation because there was a fear and respect for Yahweh in days past. Unless America returns to that fear and respect for Yahweh, America is destined to ruin. All the military power and might on the planet will not be of any effect. All is in Yahweh’s Hands.
No man comes into a place of leadership that Yahweh does not control.
No Country comes to power or falls from power that Yahweh does not control.
Is the individual man/woman who knows Yahweh’s power through prayer more or less effective in this world than the most powerful Army of this World?
There is not a weapon formed that can stop any child of Yahweh when we are following to do HIS WILL in the earth.
And it is not His Will to kill people to bring anyone to Yeshua.
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Strive to enter in at the strait gate:for many, I say unto you will seek to enter in, and shall not be able. ( Luke 13:24 )
Posts: 4578 | From: Southeast Texas | Registered: Jun 2002
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becauseHElives
Advanced Member
Member # 87
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posted
Yeshua /Jesus is my example, I will follow Matthew 5:44 But I say unto you, Love your enemies, bless them that curse you, do good to them that hate you, and pray for them which despitefully use you, and persecute you;
and again....
Luk 6:35 But love ye your enemies, and do good, and lend, hoping for nothing again; and your reward shall be great, and ye shall be the children of the Highest: for he is kind unto the unthankful and [to] the evil.
I am sure that means Muslims and or any other terrorist type people. Murderers, rapist, child molesters, drunks, adulterers, blasphemers, abortionist whatever. Yeshua has said to lift Him up to these people, all people and He would draw them to Himself. What ever the governments of this world does is their business. As a child of Yahweh I am not to be entangled in the affairs of this life. If this government or any other government demands I serve in their war, I can only serve in a capacity that would allow me to do good to both sides at the same time, because I can have no enemies and be the Child of Yahweh!
Who is the example all that would be part of the Kingdom of Yahweh are to be like?
Is the Kingdom of Yahweh part of this world?
Jhn 18:36 Jesus answered, My kingdom is not of this world: if my kingdom were of this world, then would my servants fight, that I should not be delivered to the Jews: but now is my kingdom not from hence.
Can you see Yeshua / Jesus with a gun / a weapon in His hands fighting for freedom?
If you can see Yeshua / Jesus with a gun in His hand, you are serving the wrong Jesus!
There has never been one martyr that has ever died with a gun, knife, sword or another implement of death in his hand, trying to save his life.
Mat 16:25 For whosoever will save his life shall lose it: and whosoever will lose his life for my sake shall find it.
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Mar 8:35 For whosoever will save his life shall lose it; but whosoever shall lose his life for my sake and the gospel's, the same shall save it.
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Luk 9:24 For whosoever will save his life shall lose it: but whosoever will lose his life for my sake, the same shall save it.
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Luk 17:33 Whosoever shall seek to save his life shall lose it; and whosoever shall lose his life shall preserve it.
Think about scripture....
Resist Not Evil
Matt 5:38 Ye have heard that it hath been said, An eye for an eye, and a tooth for a tooth:
Matt 5:39 But I say unto you, That ye resist not evil: but whosoever shall smite thee on thy right cheek, turn to him the other also.
Matt 5:40 And if any man will sue thee at the law, and take away thy coat, let him have [thy] cloak also.
Matt 5:41 And whosoever shall compel thee to go a mile, go with him twain.
Matt 5:42 Give to him that asketh thee, and from him that would borrow of thee turn not thou away.
and then again in ...
Luke 6:29 And unto him that smiteth thee on the [one] cheek offer also the other; and him that taketh away thy cloak forbid not [to take thy] coat also.
Luke 6:30 Give to every man that asketh of thee; and of him that taketh away thy goods ask [them] not again.
Now let us look at...
Now Take Up Again Purse, and Scrip, and Sword
Luke 22:35 And he said unto them, When I sent you without purse, and scrip, and shoes, lacked ye any thing? And they said, Nothing.
Luke 22:36 Then said he unto them, But now, he that hath a purse, let him take [it], and likewise [his] scrip: and he that hath no sword, let him sell his garment, and buy one.
Luke 22:37 For I say unto you, that this that is written must yet be accomplished in me, And he was reckoned among the transgressors: for the things concerning me have an end.
Luke 22:38 And they said, Lord, behold, here [are] two swords. And he said unto them, It is enough.
Now look at what Jesus says...
Luke 22:49-51 When they which were about him saw what would follow, they said unto him, Lord, shall we smite with the sword? And one of them smote the servant of the high priest, and cut off his right ear. And Jesus answered and said, Suffer ye thus far. And he touched his ear, and healed him.
Mat 26:52 Then said Jesus unto him, Put up again thy sword into his place: for all they that take the sword shall perish with the sword.
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Strive to enter in at the strait gate:for many, I say unto you will seek to enter in, and shall not be able. ( Luke 13:24 )
Posts: 4578 | From: Southeast Texas | Registered: Jun 2002
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Gramajo320
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posted
Rio Lion,
Amen! How true! Your posting is very much appreciated!
In Christ's love,
Gramajo320
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RioLion
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posted
It was the soldier that gave us most of the freedoms we currently enjoy in this country today, including the freedom to worship as we want.
I beleive the case for a just war can be made from the Bible. There was an author of one book written several years ago on jusification for a just war.
While we cannot stand back and permit our brothers and sisters in other lands to suffer under harsh dictatorships, all that is needed for evil to triumph is for good men to do nothing.
During this current war we were attacked and that is enough for us to make war on Islamic radicals wherever they can be found including Iraq, and elsewhere. In the end, if we persist, we will win over that kind of evil, otherwise we will see people killed in our own streets.
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Gramajo320
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posted
Whitesands777 and WParr,
You cannot compare war to abortion! Those are two very separate issues entirely! Secondly it's very obvious that you do not know much about the history of our country or about the wars or why those wars were fought! Do you have any idea of what the consequences would be or where we would be at today if everyone had the same "not me" attitude for having not to fight in wars? There are some times when wars have to be fought and that is told about in the bible! Read Joshua!
I ask you again to what do you attribute your being able to live in freedom to? You have no idea of the cost of freedom nor do you appreciate it which is very sad to hear knowing all those who laid down their lives to protect freedom!
The terrorists want to continue killing all americans and also the jewish people. They kill their own people as well totally without any regrets or conscience!
Furthermore they absolutely love people with your kind of attitudes! They call you infidels and fools that they can walk all over and then kill you!
By the way the U S of A will NEVER INVADE ISRAEL!
THE U S OF A WILL ALWAYS STAND BY ISRAEL AND DEFEND ISRAEL! You need to quit being afraid! Please don't use your christian walk as an excuse to never have to go in the military if called upon! Our Heavenly Father would not be pleased with that one! Again read Joshua!
In Christ's love,
Gramajo 320
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Ripp
unregistered
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posted
whitesands777 wrote:
quote:
I voted for George Bush but I'm not for war..Does that make me a lib ?
Well, if you don't believe in war in any situation, then yes. Saying that you are "not for war" is like saying your not for A.I.D.S. Nobody WANTS to go to war but sometimes we MUST.
quote:
Really, where does it all stop ? Are we saying here that a war will solve issues confronting mankind ?
It will stop when our Savior returns to save us from evil. Humans will never solve the earths problems of evil, but we are not to roll over and play dead, otherwise we WILL be dead.
quote:
Obviously war will not solve problems....WWII was said to be "the war to end all wars"...So much for that statement as war continues and has yet to solve mankinds problems...
As long as there is evil in the world there will be war. I don't like that thought any better than you. But what would you rather have, a world ruled by just people fighting for the rights of others or a world ruled by terrorists and madmen. That's what it really boils down to here. Either you are WILLING to defend our country and the world, or you're NOT willing. I prefer to stand up against evil.
quote:
Do you guys actually believe that wars aren't fought with wicked intentions ?
Um, the wicked intentions came from those evil terrorists who flew planes into our buildings and killed thousands of innocent civilians. Sorry to tell you this, but our country is NOT evil. I realize that the liberals want to make the U.S. out that way, but we are NOT.
quote:
What if you were a Christian in Germany and were drafted into the army and told to gas some Jewish people ? Do you obey that authority ? I sure hope not...
Um no, of course not. Why do you think we fought them in the first place?! The world faces a threat now in terrorism. If we don't fight terrorism, they will expand to a plague crossing the earth. I realize that chaos is coming, but we must stand up to evil.
quote:
Now, if a country invades us sure I believe in protecting our country...We do need to have a military...The U.S. military is in place to protect America.
Well, that's a start. You see, our country has been blessed mightily and we need to be beacons of hope around the earth. If we thought this way in WWII, we would be saying, "Heil Hitler" right about now. Now I don't know about you, but I'm glad we fought that war.
quote:
Should a country invade us because of all the abortions going on ?
quote:
Think about how many children that have been killed in this country...I'm sure it would top Stalin's and Saddams mass murders put together...Does that give another country the right to invade us ?
Abortion is another issue. We talking about war or abortion? Abortion is wrong as well and something we have to remedy. But you're analogy is illogical.
quote:
Do you know how many more people that have been killed since we've been over there ? Probably alot more than Saddams thousands...I've heard the excuse that it's for the "greater good"...
Most of them terrorists. There have been civilian casualties as those occur in times of war. Are you suggesting we should have let Saddam continue to murder thousands and leave them to rot in pits? Are you going to tell us that the world is NOT better off without him in charge?
quote:
We are dealing with spiritual wickedness..Demons and lies of the devil.
Correct. And the only way to deal with evil is to eradicate it. You CAN'T negotiate with evil/satan.
quote:
Here's a fact for you...There will be no peace until the Prince of peace comes.
That is correct. But to let terrorists continue to decimate thousands of innocent people because we are waiting for His return is unscriptural. Do you realize what would happen if we didn't retaliate for 9/11? Do you? Are you going to tell me that we should just sit down and discuss it with Osama over coffee? Come on... They want us dead! Get it? Dead!
quote:
So I'll tell you right now, just like I've said before that our wars wil not solve the problems of mankind.
Correct again. But once again, bending over is not the solution as well. Or do you want to see anarchy cover the earth before His return? I don't...
quote:
I'll reiterate that if the U.S. ever invades Israel you'll be better off staying out of the military...
White, nobody WANTS war and nobody is arguing that fact. But defending against evil HAS to be done. I realize that pictures of bloody bodies can be disturbing, but you know what SO WERE THE PICTURES OF 9/11! And if we let those evil maniacs continue their practice, we will have more bloodshed and chaos in this country than you can shake a stick at. Now, you don't want a nuke going off in this country right? Well, neither do I! And the only way to deter something like that from happening is to go on the offensive. Sitting around like ostriches helps the terrorists, NOT the sane world. So, until He comes to get us out of this nightmare, we MUST defend righteousness! We must, or we will ALL be destroyed by evil...
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whitesands777
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Member # 3424
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posted
I voted for George Bush but I'm not for war..Does that make me a lib ?
Really, where does it all stop ? Are we saying here that a war will solve issues confronting mankind ?
Obviously war will not solve problems....WWII was said to be "the war to end all wars"...So much for that statement as war continues and has yet to solve mankinds problems...
Do you guys actually believe that wars aren't fought with wicked intentions ?
What if you were a Christian in Germany and were drafted into the army and told to gas some Jewish people ? Do you obey that authority ? I sure hope not...
Now, if a country invades us sure I believe in protecting our country...We do need to have a military...The U.S. military is in place to protect America.
quote:
you can only imagine what it must be like to live in Iraq where a leader once killed 1000's of his own people, while there families stood by helplessly and watched...
Have you fully thought out that statement ?
Should a country invade us because of all the abortions going on ?
Think about how many children that have been killed in this country...I'm sure it would top Stalin's and Saddams mass murders put together...Does that give another country the right to invade us ?
Do you know how many more people that have been killed since we've been over there ? Probably alot more than Saddams thousands...I've heard the excuse that it's for the "greater good"...
I mean really, if you're going to use this argument then you need to look at the whole picture...
We are dealing with spiritual wickedness..Demons and lies of the devil.
Here's a fact for you...There will be no peace until the Prince of peace comes.
So I'll tell you right now, just like I've said before that our wars wil not solve the problems of mankind.
I'll reiterate that if the U.S. ever invades Israel you'll be better off staying out of the military...
Ephesians 6:11
"Put on the full armor of God so that you can take your stand against the devils schemes. For our struggle is not against flesh and blood, but against rulers, against the authorities, against the powers of theis dark world and against spiritual forces of evil in the heavenly relms."
Posts: 501 | Registered: May 2004
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Ripp
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quote:
Originally posted by Truth_Seeker05:
@ Danhshuben. I like your post very much. We need to focus on the cross, not on the sword. The Iraq War has only led to a vicious cycle of tit-for-tat killing. No true Christian could condone the participation in such violence.
Lol, you libs kill me. I can see how the AC will fool everyone left behind. How tragic...
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Truth_Seeker05
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@ Danhshuben. I like your post very much. We need to focus on the cross, not on the sword. The Iraq War has only led to a vicious cycle of tit-for-tat killing. No true Christian could condone the participation in such violence.
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"Seek and ye shall find".
Posts: 9 | From: Australia | Registered: Nov 2004
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Ripp
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quote:
Originally posted by Caretaker:
Is danhshubin the German word for troll?
 ![[pound]](graemlins/pound.gif)
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Caretaker
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Member # 36
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Is danhshubin the German word for troll?
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A Servant of Christ,
Drew
1 Tim. 3:
16: And without controversy great is the mystery of godliness: God was manifest in the flesh..
Posts: 3978 | From: Council Grove, KS USA | Registered: Jun 2002
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Gramajo320
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Favorminded,
I want to thank you very much for your great posting for it's deeply appreciated! I totally agree with you! God bless you and your family!
In Christ's love,
Gramajo320
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Favor Minded
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Call it Patriotism if you would like, foolishness to another, Guardianship to another, but consider the following -
(Disclaimer here - Thos of you who think Michael is Jesus should be even MORE in tune with this ideal not against it)
While I do NOT believe that Jesus is the Archangel Michael, we must understand that like these angels, it takes a certain kind of spirit to prepare and to fight.
Throughout the Word it is clear that there are times when it is absolutely necessary -
Those who speak boldly against the military, or against these things are generally those who stand at the sidelines and believe they have a better way - They are the "conscientious Objectors" who would not sign up or stand to protect their country.
What I have always wondered about that specifically is what you do if commanded by the Lord to serve and to fight, as Michael is?
And, what would it take for you to be "sure" it was the Lord who commanded you, since it is obvious by any objector's comments that they fear the fight and will not stand for what is right - Christians claim they will but only under those circumstances where God has commanded they do so how do you know when God has commanded you do?
Your freedoms have come at a price - If you are familiar with the rest of the world, you can only imagine what it must be like to live in Iraq where a leader once killed 1000's of his own people, while there families stood by helplessly and watched...
We in the US have the luxury of not enduring much of that type of oppression, yet - The rest of the world does not have that luxury - They are living a genocidal, battle ridden life of plague, disease, gunfire, and loved ones dying all around them,
yet "SOME" AMericans think they can sit idly by and smugly state that we should not stand up for what is right?
Personally, I think that is the SAD STATE of affairs - Not that we are war - but that there are those who think they can oppose it while they are comfy cozy in their arm chairs watching TV, while half way around the world babies are screaming, women are beaten, raped, mamed, and killed by the 1000's, children are outfitted with bombs to blow themselves up - We should just sit back and say "oh well, its their problem?"
And yes, I have been in the militray, and yes I have kids, and yes I have served, so I am not speaking from inexperience...
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Gramajo320
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WhiteEagle,
Amen! Great posting! God bless you! I'm in total agreement with what you have said! Thank you!
In Christ's love,
Gramajo320
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WhiteEagle
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quote:
Originally posted by danhshubin:
The only manner to resolve the war in Iraq is for all Christian congregations to return to the gospel of Jesus Christ and tell their parishoners not to participate in military service or training. Then they will not contribute to the carnage of the Iraqi war and previous wars.
The "carnage" in Iraq would be happening here in America if Islamic terrorists could have their way.
Saddam Hussein was starving his own people and getting richer off the Food for Oil Program and France and others were helping him. Al Qaida is fighting us in Iraq, don't be deceived it is a "Holy War". Today on the news it was reported that Saddam used some of the money for Food for his people, to pay Palenstinian suicide bombers' families for killing innocent Israelis. We know after 9-11 that these terrorists have already targeted America because we support Israel as a country.
The Islamic terrorists are beheading any Westerner they can kidnap, they killed the American woman who was married to an Iraqi national. She had lived in Iraq for 30 years, and spent her life in helping the poor and giving aid to others. These inhuman terrorists murdered her, and other innocent people who are not even soldiers. Do not think they would hesitate to kill us here in our own homes the exact same way, if they could.
After the US Marines entered Fallujah, they found "carnage" left by the Islamic terrorists.
One mutilated body found was of a blonde woman. All her arms and legs had been severed and she had been disimboweled, and then her throat was slit.
Do you think that it can't happen here?
If the US leaves this work unfinished, they will be HERE!
Islamic terrorists have already demostrated to us that they don't intend to leave us alone. 9-11 Remember?
I for one am proud of the US Military and their sacrifices.
The Lord led the battle and fought the battle for the Israelites, more times than I can recount in one post. King David, called by God, a man after God's own heart, was a Soldier and a warrior.
Even in Ecclesiastes it is written in 3:8 "A time to love and time to hate; a time for war, and time for peace."
Proverbs 6:16-19 "There are 6 things which the Lord hates; yes seven which are an abomination to Him:
Haughty eyes, a lying tongue, and hands that shead innocent blood, a heart that devices wicked plans, feet that run swiftly to evil, a false witness who utters lies, and one who spreads strife among brothers."
Shouldn't we hate what the Lord hates also?
Posts: 1392 | From: Maine | Registered: Aug 2004
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whitesands777
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Something comes to mind that is similar to this topic...
God tells us that there's coming a time in which everyone will be required to get a mark on the right hand or the forehead and to worship the image of the beast.
God says don't do it! The government of that time tells you to do it...
So what do you do ? Obey God's command.
Here's an example of what I'm talking about.
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whitesands777
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I hear ya Grandma! I pray for the safety of our troops as well as those all involved...
I do believe that we should obey the laws of the land...
But, I stand firm in my belief that if a nation steps outside of God's law then we are justified by not obeying any law set forth by a nation that steps outside the boundries of God's law.
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Gramajo320
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Whitesands777,
Please read the book of Joshua beinning with chapter one and also Ecclesiasties chapter three verse eight.
To not obey the laws of the land is an act of civil disobedience and if you're called upon to serve in the military that is your duty to do so.
You should remember also to pray for all the very brave men and women of the military who are serving in Iraq and Afghanistan pray for their protection and for them to return home safely. We must totally support all the brave men and women who are in the fight of their lives!
We also pray for the ones who've laid down their lives in both countries - there is no greater love than that of a man who lays down his life for another.
The United States of America must always and will always stand by Israel and the Israeli people no matter the cost! Israel is the apple of God's eye and we cannot forsake Israel.
In Christ's love,
Gramajo320
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whitesands777
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quote:
The bible tells us there will be wars and rumors of wars. Also we all are to obey the laws of the land and NOT be disobedient!
Yes the Bible does say that..But Jesus isn't telling us that the wars are good or that we should participate in them....He's telling us so that we will know the signs of the times.
And we are to be obedient to authority....Until that authority steps outside God's law...
quote:
Matthew 10:34 Think not that I am come to send peace on earth: I came not to send peace, but a sword.
This one has been used out of context in support for the war...It's not a verse that supports war...
Jesus said this in the context that families and nations would be divided over the truth of who He really is...He's saying that he didn't come to unify all religions but to divide them from His truth...He is the only way and He's telling us that many people will be divided over Him.
Is the Iraq war justified ? I don't know...I do know that they haven't invaded us or anything like that and what we did was a "preemptive strike." I hope no country will put a "pre emptive strike" on us !
We get so many different reports from the media that it just leads to confusion and it seems better to just keep the tv off these days.
One thing is for sure and please hear me out on this one...I think it is a dangerous time to belong to the military.
The reason why is because the Bible tells us one day every nation will come down against Israel and you wouldn't want to take part in that battle because the invading armies will lose! The outcome for the invading armies will not be pretty.
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Thunderz7
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Matthew 10:34 Think not that I am come to send peace on earth: I came not to send peace, but a sword.
Ecclesiastes 3:8 A time to love, and a time to hate; a time of war, and a time of peace.
Luke 22:36 Then said he unto them, But now, he that hath a purse, let him take it, and likewise his scrip: and he that hath no sword, let him sell his garment, and buy one.
T7
Posts: 1113 | From: Northeast Alabama | Registered: Jun 2002
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MentorsRiddle
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Member # 2108
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Jesus did say turn the other cheek, But the bible also said Obey the Laws of the Land. and if they say you are to go then you go because that is the law. You must understand, despite what the government says, this is a religious war and I don't think that God wants us to stand around a wait for someone to attack and kill us.
We are protecting the weak over there. I think what we are doing is a worthy cause, and if we backed out now then we would loose all respect of our allies and the rest of the world.
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With you I rise,
In you I sleep,
kneeling down I kiss your feet,
Grace abounds upon me now,
I once was lost
but now I'm found.
The gift of God dwells within,
To this love I now give in.
Posts: 1337 | From: Arkansas | Registered: Sep 2003
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Gramajo320
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posted
Danhshubin,
I do not and cannot agree with your posting nor the posting contained in the internet address whatsoever! The bible tells us there will be wars and rumors of wars. Also we all are to obey the laws of the land and NOT be disobedient! What you are advocating not right. What do you attribute your living in freedom to? We all need to TOTALLY SUPPORT the very brave men and women of the MILITARY who are in harm's way 24-7 fighting the fight of their lives in both Iraq and Afghanistan! We also need to pray so very much for their safety and safe return home!
I find your posting doing nothing more than advocating civil disobedience which is against the bible and also your words do not bring honor to those who are in the fight of their life!
In Christ's love,
Gramajo320
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danhshubin
First Post
Member # 4090
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posted
The only manner to resolve the war in Iraq is for all Christian congregations to return to the gospel of Jesus Christ and tell their parishoners not to participate in military service or training. Then they will not contribute to the carnage of the Iraqi war and previous wars.
Jesus in the New Testament taught his disciples to Turn the other cheek, love their enemies, put down the sword, and carry his cross. We should be members of the Kingdom of heaven and not become involved in matters that pertain to the kingdoms of this world. This is a difficult concept to observe, but the true Christian will take the example of the Christians of the Apostolic eras.
Even the imbalanced concepts Augustine's just war theory, which has been used to justify every other war that the Christian has been faced with, cannot be applied to the present one.
My concepts I have outlined in my web page www.peacehost.net/peacechurch
Let me know how you intend to deal with this issue as a disciple of Jesus Christ the Prince of Peace.
Posts: 1 | Registered: Nov 2004
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